I always get the impression they're akin to 1980s-era technology - floppy disks, 64k of memory, monochrome displays, etc. Of course, that may just be the visual aesthetic, seeing as the game first came out in the 80s, but it'd also illustrate well how far technology has declined if true.

Yes, they travel through the galaxy on spaceships, but we went to the moon with infinitely less computational power than you have in your current phone, and the Imperium largely achieves it with organic navigators anyway, and machine spirits and servitors use partially organic computing power. I'm strictly asking how advanced the mechanical computers are (STCs aside, which is copied tech),

I imagine Hereteks walking around with the equivalent of iPads, while the AdMech drag around briefcase-sized laptops hooked up to car batteries.

I always imagined they were very good computers but they still use old CLI because ease of use isn't much of a concern for the Imperium of Man.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I always imagined they were very good computers but they still use old CLI because ease of use isn't much of a concern for the Imperium of Man.

I think it's less ease of use, and more that people learn technology in a ritual fashion, and this is how it's always been done. Who are they to question why? It's like the Bible being written in Latin, and only understandable by the educated or priesthood. Nobody thought to make it easier or more accessible, because the entire point was that it was something percieved as so complex and important that its form must mirror its function.

Technology is holy, and by nature it must be arcane, and difficult to use and understand. Incorporating a GUI is likely as unimaginable as translating the Bible into English was.

I've always imagined Imperial computing tech to be far better than modern day versions, if woeful behind what should have been achieved in 30 to 40 thousand years. There are several issues though:

1 - A typical data-slate may be 10 times more powerful than an ipad, with massive storage capabilities; but most users outside the AdMech priesthood, have no inkling of how to utilise those capabilities (or even that they exist). Consequently you may have large pieces of factory machinery that are manually operated sitting next to a tiny data-slate that has more than enough processing capability to replace the operator, but is only used to store the manual.

2 - All imperial tech is based on the STC designs. The STC designs were created, not as a catalogue of all the best tech from the Dark Age of Technology, but rather as tools for colonists on frontier world with no infrastructure and little to no back-up. Imperial technology reflect this in that it's first priority is not efficiency, power or aesthetics, its robustness & (to an extent) ease of use. This is why it looks so clunky & '80s'. That data-slate may look like it was designed to double as a bludgeon, but it will survive the wear & tear of hundreds of years, while the i-pad might not last 1.

3 - The incomplete nature of the STC catalogue & the dogmatic adherence to it, (not to mention the absolutely terrible nature of internal communication of the AdMech), is often going to mean mismatched technology & not having the right tool for a given job. So there is a lot of bodging; A LOT. Plasma Reactor run by 3 strung together cogitators originally designed for accounting, running agricultural machinery & weather prediction respectively, with several technicians hand translating between 2 of them. Totally a thing that would happen.

It's a testament to the STC system and the bloody minded determination of the AdMech that anything gets achieved at all.

Xenology mentions something called "Logic Engine" (or something like that). I don't have the book on hand, but what i remember is that it had a wide control over the base, but like every tool with Machine Spirit, it was temperamental, and the inquisitor noted that he did not want to operate it and delegated this drudgery to his subordinate. That would suggest that Logic Engines, while advanced, aren't exactly a pinnacle of UI design.

They are still complex enough to run the starships, engage targeting systems, run auspex scans and build holographic images of targets and planets.

Pretty complex stuff really. But you would expect that from 40k years of (semi) advancement.

Very powerful, but unless your a full tech priest your not going to understand it, or even turn the thing on. The most advanced of their kind are ancient relics like all 40k. The computers run starships and all manner of advanced equipment will not be basic.

A more basic data slate could be more user friendly, in the books, officers, marines etc all have them for everyday information and such.

However everything is made to last and your basic tech is built to last decades without need for replacement.

Their computer systems should be incredibly powerful, given that they are all based on the STC from the Dark Age of Technology, the pinnacle of human achievement.

The question should therefore not be how advanced their systems are, but whether humans in 40k still know how to use them effectively. The most advanced computer system in the universe isn't going to do you much good if you don't understand 80% of its functions.

There are no computers in our sense. Their computers are biological. Like their robots (servitors).

Including the data cards that go into Kastelan robots. They're explicitly a mix of biological components and electronics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's part of the grimdark. The Imperium's robots are lobotomized people (or animals) attached to machines. Like the poor guy stuck in the Ironstrider.

It would be worlds ahead of our technology, even in its decayed state. The simplest servitor would be exponentially more powerful through the use of a human brain.

quote=Alcibiades 665184 8151672 null]There are no computers in our sense. Their computers are biological. Like their robots (servitors).

Including the data cards that go into Kastelan robots. They're explicitly a mix of biological components and electronics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's part of the grimdark. The Imperium's robots are lobotomized people (or animals) attached to machines. Like the poor guy stuck in the Ironstrider.

Given that they have the technology to fully integrate biological brains into their machines, I'd say their average cogitation engine is what we would label a super-computer.
But that's about as specific as this is really going to get, as they use terms like "Cogitation Machine" to describe computers, and don't even understand what half their terms mean.

 Selym wrote:
Given that they have the technology to fully integrate biological brains into their machines, I'd say their average cogitation engine is what we would label a super-computer.
But that's about as specific as this is really going to get, as they use terms like "Cogitation Machine" to describe computers, and don't even understand what half their terms mean.

Exactly. The human brain is orders of magnitude beyond any computers we have today, and any that we can forsee. Integrating human brains into your computers means you have massive computational power at your disposal.

There are no computers in our sense.

We'd still call them computers. They might not be made of what we are used to computers being made of, but a computer isn't defined by what its made of, its what it does that matters.

1. Does 'Personal Computer' we use today exists in the 40k universe?
2. Many electronical devices in the Imperium (and Admech) are all have skulls attacked to it. (including ones incorporated into Hydra/Wyvern targeting systems) Do they use human brain as CPU or do they also use the same (microtransistor) chips as we do? or are these skulls ornamental? (so to serves as faction symbol)

3. Have they discovered a working method of quantum-computing?
4. Does the warp affect any of this (what with provable sentient machine spirits in the larger machines, capable of being corrupted, or eating a Princeps' soul)?

 Lone Cat wrote:
1. Does 'Personal Computer' we use today exists in the 40k universe?
2. Many electronical devices in the Imperium (and Admech) are all have skulls attacked to it. (including ones incorporated into Hydra/Wyvern targeting systems) Do they use human brain as CPU or do they also use the same (microtransistor) chips as we do? or are these skulls ornamental? (so to serves as faction symbol)

1) Probably on some planets, but they're almost certainly a luxury item. And the Internet also certainly exists, but it will naturally be limited to individual planets, and likely not be available to everyone.

2) That depends on the device. They do still have inorganic computers, not everything has organic material in it. Nor are their systems entirely organic even when they have components which are. As for the skulls, I imagine they are ornamental(but they could be real on top of that).

Very powerful but almost certainly using vacuum tubes instead of transistors and thus being immensely bulky. Its the only way I can explain how they can run a starship yet no one can miniaturize them enough to put any kind of ballistic trajectory calculator on something smaller than a titan (scatter dice)

AtraUnam wrote:
almost certainly using vacuum tubes instead of transistors

Source?

AtraUnam wrote:
Very powerful but almost certainly using vacuum tubes instead of transistors and thus being immensely bulky. Its the only way I can explain how they can run a starship yet no one can miniaturize them enough to put any kind of ballistic trajectory calculator on something smaller than a titan (scatter dice)

You do realize that being able to accurately put down fire doesn't mean you never make errors. Modern munitions are scarily accurate but even they have variations. You can never put something exactly where you want it.

Silverthorne 665184 8152077 291597a100aadd814d197af4f4bab3a7.jpg]quote=Alcibiades wrote:
There are no computers in our sense. Their computers are biological. Like their robots (servitors).

Including the data cards that go into Kastelan robots. They're explicitly a mix of biological components and electronics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's part of the grimdark. The Imperium's robots are lobotomized people (or animals) attached to machines. Like the poor guy stuck in the Ironstrider.

True. But the biological components also help resist the persistent electronic attack signals / radiation that pervade the entire galaxy. That's also why most combat in the game is between flesh and blook infantry at visual ranges, not drones lobbing cruise missiles at each other.

I thought I remember (from Rogue Trader) that the biological component was due to the regulation against "thinking" - AI machines. Thus computers have some human regulator built-in to prevent the machine from running amok and turning against humanity.

I have a feeling that 40K tech, besides being hardy enough to last centuries (our CD's only last ~50 years and most modern computers I know of usually die after 5-7 years), they likely don't have moving components, no fans required for heat dissipation and I believe use crystals for data storage and can project holograms. While not as advanced as the Dark Age of Technology, far better than the stuff we have now.

They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Martel732 wrote:
They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Why do you assume they aren't using targeting computers?

Martel732 wrote:
They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Well they probably have futuristic targeting computers, but they also probably have futuristic active counter measures. So maybe it just ends up being a wash.

Baneblades and Titans have targeters. The Shadowsword even has an upgrade to its targeters in the rules.

And ships. They have them too.

True. But the biological components also help resist the persistent electronic attack signals / radiation that pervade the entire galaxy. That's also why most combat in the game is between flesh and blook infantry at visual ranges, not drones lobbing cruise missiles at each other.

Are you talking about the crap code of the Dark Mechanicum ?

 godardc wrote:

True. But the biological components also help resist the persistent electronic attack signals / radiation that pervade the entire galaxy. That's also why most combat in the game is between flesh and blook infantry at visual ranges, not drones lobbing cruise missiles at each other.

Are you talking about the crap code of the Dark Mechanicum ?

It's crap because it doesn't really do anything
The DM's scrap code is partly daemonic, isn't it? If so, it could just ignore parts of reality, and infect toasters, augmented brains, your wristwatch and Missingno from Pokémon.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Why do you assume they aren't using targeting computers?

They aren't as advanced or capable as ours today are at least. An M1 Abrams can hit a Womprat from 1000m while moving over parked cars.

 Ignatius wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Why do you assume they aren't using targeting computers?

They aren't as advanced or capable as ours today are at least. An M1 Abrams can hit a Womprat from 1000m while moving over parked cars.

Are you going by fluff, or game mechanics? I'm fairly certain that FoW would not have them that accurate (if they use them, I'm not too familiar).

There's a blog post out there by one of the BL writers, can't find it at the moment, that explains that the computers of M40 are massively advanced, far moreso than anything even imaginable today, but the layers of security required (free-floating scrapcode and killer-AI are a thing) and the general decline of maintenance (like a defrag) means that they aren't particularly efficient in the setting... but would still devour any modern computer in complexity and potential data-manipulation.

 Psienesis wrote:
There's a blog post out there by one of the BL writers, can't find it at the moment, that explains that the computers of M40 are massively advanced, far moreso than anything even imaginable today, but the layers of security required (free-floating scrapcode and killer-AI are a thing) and the general decline of maintenance (like a defrag) means that they aren't particularly efficient in the setting... but would still devour any modern computer in complexity and potential data-manipulation.

Sounds about right, given what we know.

No way in hell it's humans making an Imperator Titan walk.

I was under the impression that the imperium is so afraid of AI (abominable intelligence), that they have to have an organic part in any piece of computer. I do believe this was originally introduced concerning more powerful AI and VI to keep them under control. Eventually I believe this spread to anything automated.

As such they are universally called the machine spirit, of varying levels of ability. A land raiders for example has some examples of moving, firing and aiming all it's weapons with no crew. Others such as the logic engine within a hunter killer missile & hunter rounds are simply used to change the trajectory of the projectile.

As such you would have to realistically differentiate between different types of machine spirits seeing they all can vary quite vastly.

 Selym wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Why do you assume they aren't using targeting computers?

They aren't as advanced or capable as ours today are at least. An M1 Abrams can hit a Womprat from 1000m while moving over parked cars.

Are you going by fluff, or game mechanics? I'm fairly certain that FoW would not have them that accurate (if they use them, I'm not too familiar).

Fluff of course. I didn't know FoW did modern era units. Even so my statement was less about theory and more I've seen the tank shoot and hit something 1000m away while riding over cars.

 Ignatius wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Why do you assume they aren't using targeting computers?

They aren't as advanced or capable as ours today are at least. An M1 Abrams can hit a Womprat from 1000m while moving over parked cars.

Are you going by fluff, or game mechanics? I'm fairly certain that FoW would not have them that accurate (if they use them, I'm not too familiar).

Fluff of course. I didn't know FoW did modern era units. Even so my statement was less about theory and more I've seen the tank shoot and hit something 1000m away while riding over cars.

I've been informed by a few people who are more familiar with FoW that they do Challenger 2's. Notable for being almost unkillable in the game. Having an Abrams around seemed like a logical leap.

It's entirely possible that the crew of targeter-equipped vehicles simply forgot what an "on" button was, but the Shadowsword explicitly has targeters. And you'd certainly need high level computers to make the larger titans mechanically functional.

 Selym wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Why do you assume they aren't using targeting computers?

They aren't as advanced or capable as ours today are at least. An M1 Abrams can hit a Womprat from 1000m while moving over parked cars.

Are you going by fluff, or game mechanics? I'm fairly certain that FoW would not have them that accurate (if they use them, I'm not too familiar).

Fluff of course. I didn't know FoW did modern era units. Even so my statement was less about theory and more I've seen the tank shoot and hit something 1000m away while riding over cars.

I've been informed by a few people who are more familiar with FoW that they do Challenger 2's. Notable for being almost unkillable in the game. Having an Abrams around seemed like a logical leap.

It's entirely possible that the crew of targeter-equipped vehicles simply forgot what an "on" button was, but the Shadowsword explicitly has targeters. And you'd certainly need high level computers to make the larger titans mechanically functional.

Of course targeters might be in tanks and the crew simply doesn't know it's an option in there. Heck I'm learning new stuff all the time about one specific system in our tanks and Humvees, let alone entirely new stuff.

All I'm saying is that our tanks today are insanely powerful, quick, accurate, strong, reliable, etc. etc. If we had these things in 40k they'd be OP for sure.

Leman Russ's were designed to be tractors not tanks. So I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think the pinnacle of modern tank design might have some more capabilities compared to the Russ. Imagine the tank the Imperium could produce had they actually tried to create a dedicated Heavy Line Battle Tank. But they didn't, and in a round about way, that's the point I was trying to make (not very well I know I know).

Where do people get it from, that the Leman Russ was designed as a tractor?

Depends on the task. A mono taal could be insanely powerful and able to calculate beyond the levels we can imagine.

Yet useless as a simple task that isa outside its area.

A true generalist all round system, might lack power but be far more flexible.

Titan AI, now that's just insane, all devouring war spirit that can be 10,000 years old and learning all that time. Thousands of battles, hundreds of big kills, every war and environment know.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Where do people get it from, that the Leman Russ was designed as a tractor?

Background material from somewhere. Old as 5th edition or earlier, iirc.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Why do you assume they aren't using targeting computers?

Because they're using the Force.

How do you know that a modern tank would be way worse than what the current in-game stats are?

For all we know, an Abrams would probably be BS2 and armor11.

The Abrams isn't made of space-metal with 20k+ years of development behind it.

I say they're not using targeting computers because their hit rate sucks. Maybe thats applying too much logic.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Where do people get it from, that the Leman Russ was designed as a tractor?

IIRC it's because the basic STC chassis is almost identical. They look very similar, but the tractor and the russ are indeed different vehicles intended from the start for specific jobs. I'm yet to see someone actually locate the original leman russ was originally a tractor fluff. IIRC before the leman russ STC was discovered the imperial army used Land Raiders in its place. Another rumour I've hear was the Russ was originally suppose to be a heavily armoured artillery tractor.... yet again different to the normal agricultural example people normally think of.

Grey Templar wrote:How do you know that a modern tank would be way worse than what the current in-game stats are?

For all we know, an Abrams would probably be BS2 and armor11.

Psienesis wrote:The Abrams isn't made of space-metal with 20k+ years of development behind it.

I'm aware of "space magic" and such. But having seen the thing in action sort of warps your perception a little I suppose. I've seen the thing hit what look to be little dots on the horizon dead center while moving every which way. So my bias perhaps is a little much for this discussion but I can tell you that being accurate with the Abrams main cannon is pretty damn easy. If I can do it after an hour of hands on training, I'll be able to do it with years of experience in the future.

So. Meh.

 Ignatius wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:How do you know that a modern tank would be way worse than what the current in-game stats are?

For all we know, an Abrams would probably be BS2 and armor11.

Psienesis wrote:The Abrams isn't made of space-metal with 20k+ years of development behind it.

I'm aware of "space magic" and such. But having seen the thing in action sort of warps your perception a little I suppose. I've seen the thing hit what look to be little dots on the horizon dead center while moving every which way. So my bias perhaps is a little much for this discussion but I can tell you that being accurate with the Abrams main cannon is pretty damn easy. If I can do it after an hour of hands on training, I'll be able to do it with years of experience in the future.

So. Meh.

Which doesn't actually say anything about 40K tanks. You say "the Abrams is super-accurate!" I say "the Baneblade can absorb every round the Abrams throws at it until the Baneblade decides to drive over it and crush it under track".

The mechanics of the tabletop game, specifically the ranges and the fact that it's a granular game based on the non-granular d6 are the problems.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:How do you know that a modern tank would be way worse than what the current in-game stats are?

For all we know, an Abrams would probably be BS2 and armor11.

Psienesis wrote:The Abrams isn't made of space-metal with 20k+ years of development behind it.

I'm aware of "space magic" and such. But having seen the thing in action sort of warps your perception a little I suppose. I've seen the thing hit what look to be little dots on the horizon dead center while moving every which way. So my bias perhaps is a little much for this discussion but I can tell you that being accurate with the Abrams main cannon is pretty damn easy. If I can do it after an hour of hands on training, I'll be able to do it with years of experience in the future.

So. Meh.

Which doesn't actually say anything about 40K tanks. You say "the Abrams is super-accurate!" I say "the Baneblade can absorb every round the Abrams throws at it until the Baneblade decides to drive over it and crush it under track".

The mechanics of the tabletop game, specifically the ranges and the fact that it's a granular game based on the non-granular d6 are the problems.

Also, I would assume that the Scatter mechanic was originally designed as a way to "balance" Blast and Large Blast weapons.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:How do you know that a modern tank would be way worse than what the current in-game stats are?

For all we know, an Abrams would probably be BS2 and armor11.

Psienesis wrote:The Abrams isn't made of space-metal with 20k+ years of development behind it.

I'm aware of "space magic" and such. But having seen the thing in action sort of warps your perception a little I suppose. I've seen the thing hit what look to be little dots on the horizon dead center while moving every which way. So my bias perhaps is a little much for this discussion but I can tell you that being accurate with the Abrams main cannon is pretty damn easy. If I can do it after an hour of hands on training, I'll be able to do it with years of experience in the future.

So. Meh.

Which doesn't actually say anything about 40K tanks. You say "the Abrams is super-accurate!" I say "the Baneblade can absorb every round the Abrams throws at it until the Baneblade decides to drive over it and crush it under track".

The mechanics of the tabletop game, specifically the ranges and the fact that it's a granular game based on the non-granular d6 are the problems.

Like I said in the post you quoted, my personal bias is going to make my contribution to this thread perhaps a little less meaningful. If I were really trying to troll here I could argue a few different points I've already been taught about engaging targets with armor too thick for HEAT rounds to penetrate. But I won't, because in 40k nothing is really truly known outside of in universe contextual evidence. So trying to put an Abrams into 40k is an example of a pointless thought experiment. And I'll admit that was my fault for gushing over the tank I'm training with right now and trying to shoe horn it in.

So I'll drop it.

 Lone Cat wrote:
1. Does 'Personal Computer' we use today exists in the 40k universe?
2. Many electronical devices in the Imperium (and Admech) are all have skulls attacked to it. (including ones incorporated into Hydra/Wyvern targeting systems) Do they use human brain as CPU or do they also use the same (microtransistor) chips as we do? or are these skulls ornamental? (so to serves as faction symbol)

1. Yes, there are personal 'cogitators' being similar to PCs, and there are also data slates which I guess is a kind of tablet computer. Some hive world governments also make use of huge super-computers. In the BL book 'Ravenor'

2. I'm not entirely sure, but I think they use cogitators (normal computers) for the more basic, civilian, mathmatical tasks. They use skulls with human brains to control the things which involve making intelligent decisions (though their intelligence is limited to the context of their job, as they're just servitors) and controling things which they don't want an AI to get control of, avoiding another Dark Age of Technology.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
The Abrams isn't made of space-metal with 20k+ years of development behind it.

Leman Russes could have all the protective power of an M1A2 Sherman, as there's not alot to compare it to. It reminds me of when someone on another forum said that "Guardsmen will barely be hurt at all by an M16 rifle, as humans have evolved in the 40K universe". Except that evolution doesn't always work out that way, and even if it did, 40K years isn't 'that' long by evolution standards. Though granted, the Leman Russ being better than an Abrams is certainly more plausible than the Guardsmen idea, especially if all that 'plasteel' and other exotic materials are better than chobham armour.

"So trying to put an Abrams into 40k is an example of a pointless thought experiment"

Not really. We have a hit rate for the Abrams. And then another hit rate for 40K tanks. Those numbers are directly comparable. 40K targeting sucks. 40K is basically the retro future, which basically makes me think that their ground forces would struggle against any non-retro future military.

Their tanks look like WW I tanks for crying about loud. And they don't have gyro stabilized turrets. (Can't fire on the move) And there are precious few seeking weapons. And the weapons ranges are absurdly short. It's like Battletech all over again.

In real futuristic warfare, you don't get to see your opponent, and there is no assault phase. And Orks and bugs just auto-lose for the most part. (Like in the Starship Troopers novel)

Martel732 wrote:
"So trying to put an Abrams into 40k is an example of a pointless thought experiment"

Not really. We have a hit rate for the Abrams. And then another hit rate for 40K tanks. Those numbers are directly comparable. 40K targeting sucks. 40K is basically the retro future, which basically makes me think that their ground forces would struggle against any non-retro future military.

Their tanks look like WW I tanks for crying about loud. And they don't have gyro stabilized turrets. (Can't fire on the move) And there are precious few seeking weapons. And the weapons ranges are absurdly short. It's like Battletech all over again.

In real futuristic warfare, you don't get to see your opponent, and there is no assault phase. And Orks and bugs just auto-lose for the most part. (Like in the Starship Troopers novel)

The real issue is that wargame balance (yes, it exists) isn't directly comparable to the fluff. Elite soldiers like Astartes are going to be more accurate than 67%, and shooting an assault rifle doesn't keep you from charging into glorious melee combat. Nor does power armor fail two times out of three. But the limits of the d6 and attempts at balancing the game limit the realism of the simulation.

 asorel wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"So trying to put an Abrams into 40k is an example of a pointless thought experiment"

Not really. We have a hit rate for the Abrams. And then another hit rate for 40K tanks. Those numbers are directly comparable. 40K targeting sucks. 40K is basically the retro future, which basically makes me think that their ground forces would struggle against any non-retro future military.

Their tanks look like WW I tanks for crying about loud. And they don't have gyro stabilized turrets. (Can't fire on the move) And there are precious few seeking weapons. And the weapons ranges are absurdly short. It's like Battletech all over again.

In real futuristic warfare, you don't get to see your opponent, and there is no assault phase. And Orks and bugs just auto-lose for the most part. (Like in the Starship Troopers novel)

The real issue is that wargame balance (yes, it exists) isn't directly comparable to the fluff. Elite soldiers like Astartes are going to be more accurate than 67%, and shooting an assault rifle doesn't keep you from charging into glorious melee combat. Nor does power armor fail two times out of three. But the limits of the d6 and attempts at balancing the game limit the realism of the simulation.

But they aren't more accurate than 67%. And power armor does fail 1/3 of the time. They are what the stats say they are. Which makes them kinda losers, actually. That's the way wargames work. The fluff is just the delusion of some author. I could write my own fluff and it would has just as much impact on the tabletop game. Which is zero.

Remember that the answer in any fluff question is "Whatever the author says it is". That couldn't be more irrelevant to a table top war game. Hence, fluff = ignored.

Martel732 wrote:

 asorel wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"So trying to put an Abrams into 40k is an example of a pointless thought experiment"

Not really. We have a hit rate for the Abrams. And then another hit rate for 40K tanks. Those numbers are directly comparable. 40K targeting sucks. 40K is basically the retro future, which basically makes me think that their ground forces would struggle against any non-retro future military.

Their tanks look like WW I tanks for crying about loud. And they don't have gyro stabilized turrets. (Can't fire on the move) And there are precious few seeking weapons. And the weapons ranges are absurdly short. It's like Battletech all over again.

In real futuristic warfare, you don't get to see your opponent, and there is no assault phase. And Orks and bugs just auto-lose for the most part. (Like in the Starship Troopers novel)

The real issue is that wargame balance (yes, it exists) isn't directly comparable to the fluff. Elite soldiers like Astartes are going to be more accurate than 67%, and shooting an assault rifle doesn't keep you from charging into glorious melee combat. Nor does power armor fail two times out of three. But the limits of the d6 and attempts at balancing the game limit the realism of the simulation.

But they aren't more accurate than 67%. And power armor does fail 1/3 of the time. They are what the stats say they are. Which makes them kinda losers, actually. That's the way wargames work. The fluff is just the delusion of some author. I could write my own fluff and it would has just as much impact on the tabletop game. Which is zero.

Remember that the answer in any fluff question is "Whatever the author says it is". That couldn't be more irrelevant to a table top war game. Hence, fluff = ignored.

This is the background discussion subforum, the fluff isn't ignored. Even if that weren't the case, other crunch sources such as the FFG RPGs portray the units rather differently. What is valid crunch changes from one addition to the next, and when going between different systems. While fluff isn't too useful for hard values, it at least remains somewhat consistent.

I'll let you get back to it, then, but the IoM seems decidedly Dune-ish to me with no real computing and a total reliance on special people power. And reliance on fanboi authors. Can't forget them.

Martel732 wrote:
In real futuristic warfare, you don't get to see your opponent, and there is no assault phase. And Orks and bugs just auto-lose for the most part. (Like in the Starship Troopers novel)

Indeed. And even in modern-era warfare I doubt they'd do especialy well (ignoring the huge numerical advantage and orbital support, of course). I wonder how the Imperium will counter laser-guided bombs, anti-radiaiton missiles and decent artillery. That is assuming that a Chimera has the armour of a BMP2, and Space Marines can be taken down with a 14-25mm round.

I wonder how the Imperium will counter laser-guided bombs, anti-radiaiton missiles and decent artillery

Void Shields.

 Psienesis wrote:

I wonder how the Imperium will counter laser-guided bombs, anti-radiaiton missiles and decent artillery

Void Shields.

Damn those void Shields...

And while we're on the subject of Imperium vs IRL forces

The IoM would be too stupid to use them. Yeah, they're that stupid.

Martel732 wrote:
"So trying to put an Abrams into 40k is an example of a pointless thought experiment"

Not really. We have a hit rate for the Abrams. And then another hit rate for 40K tanks. Those numbers are directly comparable. 40K targeting sucks. 40K is basically the retro future, which basically makes me think that their ground forces would struggle against any non-retro future military.

Their tanks look like WW I tanks for crying about loud. And they don't have gyro stabilized turrets. (Can't fire on the move) And there are precious few seeking weapons. And the weapons ranges are absurdly short. It's like Battletech all over again.

In real futuristic warfare, you don't get to see your opponent, and there is no assault phase. And Orks and bugs just auto-lose for the most part. (Like in the Starship Troopers novel)

While you have a point, by thaat logic all IG are dead eyes with their lasguns, as their hit rate is many many times better than that of the IRL military.

Martel732 wrote:
"So trying to put an Abrams into 40k is an example of a pointless thought experiment"

Not really. We have a hit rate for the Abrams. And then another hit rate for 40K tanks. Those numbers are directly comparable.

No they are not.

We have a hit rate for LRBTs in universe, funneled through a poorly designed game system and based on arbitrary numbers and a D6 system(which is about as far from granular as you can get). For Abrams we have actual real world data. These things are not comparable.

Next we have no idea what the exact state of targeting systems is in 40k. Given 38,000 years of technological advances, its almost certain that there are insane counter-measures around. Not to mention battlefield radiation from all the plasma/fusion weaponry with output yields able to level mountains. An Abrams targeting systems(which is the only reason its so accurate) probably would just get overloaded and the crew would be forced to use the iron sights. And even if it was able to still hit stuff, there is no guarantee that its weapon would be sufficient. For all we know it could be as useless as a single 75mm Sherman trying to take out an Abrams, sure its possible but the Sherman would have to get around the sides and try to hit a weak spot at almost point blank range.

Really the best you can do is say that BS3 is the ballistic skill of a soldier that has gone through basic training and had a fair bit of drilling. BS4 is a highly trained soldier that has made marksmanship his life. BS5 is a legend among men.

 SDFarsight wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:
1. Does 'Personal Computer' we use today exists in the 40k universe?
2. Many electronical devices in the Imperium (and Admech) are all have skulls attacked to it. (including ones incorporated into Hydra/Wyvern targeting systems) Do they use human brain as CPU or do they also use the same (microtransistor) chips as we do? or are these skulls ornamental? (so to serves as faction symbol)

1. Yes, there are personal 'cogitators' being similar to PCs, and there are also data slates which I guess is a kind of tablet computer. Some hive world governments also make use of huge super-computers. In the BL book 'Ravenor'

Spoiler:

a group of heretics keep adding more modules to the hive's super computer in order to decode a pseudo-pskyer language.

2. I'm not entirely sure, but I think they use cogitators (normal computers) for the more basic, civilian, mathmatical tasks. They use skulls with human brains to control the things which involve making intelligent decisions (though their intelligence is limited to the context of their job, as they're just servitors) and controling things which they don't want an AI to get control of, avoiding another Dark Age of Technology.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
The Abrams isn't made of space-metal with 20k+ years of development behind it.

Leman Russes could have all the protective power of an M1A2 Sherman, as there's not alot to compare it to. It reminds me of when someone on another forum said that "Guardsmen will barely be hurt at all by an M16 rifle, as humans have evolved in the 40K universe". Except that evolution doesn't always work out that way, and even if it did, 40K years isn't 'that' long by evolution standards. Though granted, the Leman Russ being better than an Abrams is certainly more plausible than the Guardsmen idea, especially if all that 'plasteel' and other exotic materials are better than chobham armour.

Also we know Imperial armor is craaaazy good strong stuff considering a Baneblade once got hit by what was basically a MOAB, formed a crater fit for a significantly large meteorite, and sent the Baneblade flying a hundred feet into the air, and the crew didn't even die from a concussion.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Where do people get it from, that the Leman Russ was designed as a tractor?

I'm sure I read once from the same source that Terminator Armour was simply a hazardous environment work suit.

I think the point was to show how absurdly advanced the DAOT was, and how the pinnacle of Imperial technology consists of nothing more than scraps from that era.

Even scraps of an absurdly advanced era are going to be absurdly advanced.

And yes, Terminator armor was based on suits made to function inside functioning plasma reactors(Its not an STC). IE: You can walk around in a nuclear fusion reaction and be fine.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Even scraps of an absurdly advanced era are going to be absurdly advanced.

And yes, Terminator armor was based on suits made to function inside functioning plasma reactors(Its not an STC). IE: You can walk around in a nuclear fusion reaction and be fine.

I thought that was just part of their testing rather than their main purpose.

Nope. They were designed to allow workers to perform maintenance on active reactors, preventing the need to shut the reactor down for maintenance.

The "Crux Terminatus/Emperor's Armour" fluff really did break the whole concept of Terminators. >< But it was badly (and half-heartedly) implemented anyway and hasn't been mentioned since that first introduction, thankfully.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Nope. They were designed to allow workers to perform maintenance on active reactors, preventing the need to shut the reactor down for maintenance.

Wow, that really does make them alot less cool. They're glorified hazmat suits

I don't know. It basically lets you tolerate the temperature on the surface of a star.

And TDA has been heavily modified from what it was originally. It probably has only superficial resemblance to the original product.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I don't know. It basically lets you tolerate the temperature on the surface of a star.

And TDA has been heavily modified from what it was originally. It probably has only superficial resemblance to the original product.

You can see the evolution in different patterns of the armor. The older Cataphractii, for instance, has a 4+ invuln but only S&P.

 SDFarsight wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Nope. They were designed to allow workers to perform maintenance on active reactors, preventing the need to shut the reactor down for maintenance.

Wow, that really does make them alot less cool. They're glorified hazmat suits

On the contrary, it makes the Imperium even cooler for having created such a thing.

 SDFarsight wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Nope. They were designed to allow workers to perform maintenance on active reactors, preventing the need to shut the reactor down for maintenance.

Wow, that really does make them alot less cool. They're glorified hazmat suits

There's a certain Mr. Freeman here who'd like a word with you. Well no, not a word as such.
More a crowbar, in fact.


Anyway, it's my understanding that there are no "computers" in the Imperium, due to the the fluff ripping off Dune's ban on all thinking machine (aka. the Butlerian Jihad). But rather than use human computers (Mentats) the Imperium got around this by making servitors and data engines with a biological component, and using technology to enhance humans beyond their normal capacity.

This may of course been retconned of course,

They call computers "cogitators". They don't appear to have a biological component, but they are also not at AI-level of capability.

It's entirely possible that the majority of high-level imperial calculatory technology is partly organic. But there is very likely non-organic computers, too.

To be as powerful as we expect them to be (due to fully incorporating human minds), the hardware of the bio-computers would be at least partly extremely advanced forms of modern computing tech, possibly with a quantum computing component. If they have that kind of hardware available, there is little you'd need a human brain for anyway, aside from a direct and thinking control mechanism.

To put it in some perspective, Mars and all of its satellite Forge Worlds across the galaxy have quantum computers. This was how Mars once received updates, or sent new protocols, to the Forge Worlds, without the use of Astropaths (since Astropaths cannot transmit data in that nature).

We have also seen personal, portable computing technology in use in various sources, whether for simple word processing or for hacking into an Administratum data network.

There is, of course, the possibility that all computers contain something like a vat-grown brain component that acts as a combined hard drive and CPU, given the mind's ability for data storage and simultaneous calculations and processes, bolstered with/supported by electronic components.

 Aben Zin wrote:

 SDFarsight wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Nope. They were designed to allow workers to perform maintenance on active reactors, preventing the need to shut the reactor down for maintenance.

Wow, that really does make them alot less cool. They're glorified hazmat suits

There's a certain Mr. Freeman here who'd like a word with you. Well no, not a word as such.
More a crowbar, in fact.

But wouldn't Mr Freemen prefer thrice-blessed tactical dreadnought armour containing a fragment of our Emperor's armour?

Oh, gods, no, first thing he'd probably do is free all the psykers...

Maybe cogitators aren't computers, maybe they're cogitators. The Land Raider poster has some neat information about their cogitators, cogitations per minute and so on.

Something that the Mutilator fluff (yeah yeah...) suggests is that everything has a warp-presence, and that part of the Mutilator thing is that their own souls become enmeshed and intermingled with the souls of their weapons as time and the warp affects them. Maybe the problem with computers is that they don't start with or develop human souls.

I think the issue with computers is that they're easily possessed in a universe where the skin between reality and madness is getting thinner by the hour, so walking around with a ready-made scaffold for an inter-dimensional warp-gate is unhealthy (and relatively easy to ban, unlike actual people and psykers), and attaching one as the control system for a war-machine is practically suicide. Better to make sure any devices already have a mind, and one that's resistant to daemonic suggestion, intrusion, or possession is all the better.

Nomeny wrote:
Maybe cogitators aren't computers, maybe they're cogitators. The Land Raider poster has some neat information about their cogitators, cogitations per minute and so on.

Something that the Mutilator fluff (yeah yeah...) suggests is that everything has a warp-presence, and that part of the Mutilator thing is that their own souls become enmeshed and intermingled with the souls of their weapons as time and the warp affects them. Maybe the problem with computers is that they don't start with or develop human souls.

I think the issue with computers is that they're easily possessed in a universe where the skin between reality and madness is getting thinner by the hour, so walking around with a ready-made scaffold for an inter-dimensional warp-gate is unhealthy (and relatively easy to ban, unlike actual people and psykers), and attaching one as the control system for a war-machine is practically suicide. Better to make sure any devices already have a mind, and one that's resistant to daemonic suggestion, intrusion, or possession is all the better.

I doubt they're that risky of possession. The only cogitiators I know of to be possessed had spent many years on a Chaos-tainted planet, and even then IIRC it only had some creepy gliches rather than actualy summoning a deamon/warp gate. If the Imperium is afraid of anything it's having another AI war, which is why they put organic parts in the more powerful/important computers.

It seems that you need a specific type of daemon to posses a computer. Tech-daemons seem to be their own category, and they have some differences from actual daemons(like they can actually forget they're daemons)

Cogitators cogitate. That is why they are called cogitators. It implies some level of ceretronic activity or design parameters.

 Psienesis wrote:
Cogitators cogitate. That is why they are called cogitators. It implies some level of ceretronic activity or design parameters.

In layman's terms, they're powerful calculators.

Which would make them a computer, since that is all a computer does. It calculates strings of binary code.

But thats really all computers are. Very powerful calculators.

And the definition of Cogitate is as follows,

transitive verb
: to ponder or meditate on usually intently
intransitive verb
: to meditate deeply or intently <cogitating on her career plans>

This implies some judgement and decision making. So some sort of crude decision making is involved.

So Cogitator is just 40k-speak for Computer. Heck, you would not be wrong to call your Laptop/pocket calculator/iPhone/etc... a Cogitator in our modern language.

 Grey Templar wrote:
It seems that you need a specific type of daemon to posses a computer. Tech-daemons seem to be their own category, and they have some differences from actual daemons(like they can actually forget they're daemons)

Sometimes they can materialise themselves as large blue entities with foul white script across them, or a multi-coloured rotating ball made from pure heresy.

 SDFarsight wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
It seems that you need a specific type of daemon to posses a computer. Tech-daemons seem to be their own category, and they have some differences from actual daemons(like they can actually forget they're daemons)

Sometimes they can materialise themselves as large blue entities with foul white script across them, or a multi-coloured rotating ball made from pure heresy.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 SDFarsight wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
It seems that you need a specific type of daemon to posses a computer. Tech-daemons seem to be their own category, and they have some differences from actual daemons(like they can actually forget they're daemons)

Sometimes they can materialise themselves as large blue entities with foul white script across them, or a multi-coloured rotating ball made from pure heresy.

zoom in and read all the tooltips and fineprint

 Grey Templar wrote:
zoom in and read all the tooltips and fineprint

Did :3

If only daemon summoning had those tools. Although I'd soon change the paper clip for something less annoying.

Clippy is an Avatar of Khorne, God of Rage and Bloodlust. Change or dismiss him at your peril.

 Psienesis wrote:
Clippy is an Avatar of Khorne, God of Rage and Bloodlust. Change or dismiss him at your peril.

More like Tzeentch, you never know what twisted plots he has weaved behind those tooltip options.

Bending and unbending menacingly, always watching with those dull, soulless eyes just... floating there, detached from his snake-like body...

Martel732 wrote:
"So trying to put an Abrams into 40k is an example of a pointless thought experiment"

Not really. We have a hit rate for the Abrams. And then another hit rate for 40K tanks. Those numbers are directly comparable. 40K targeting sucks. 40K is basically the retro future, which basically makes me think that their ground forces would struggle against any non-retro future military.

Their tanks look like WW I tanks for crying about loud. And they don't have gyro stabilized turrets. (Can't fire on the move) And there are precious few seeking weapons. And the weapons ranges are absurdly short. It's like Battletech all over again.

In real futuristic warfare, you don't get to see your opponent, and there is no assault phase. And Orks and bugs just auto-lose for the most part. (Like in the Starship Troopers novel)

Why do people like this even frequent 40k background forums? I have pondered this for some time, and I don't really have an answer. Let us compare a tank - any real world tank - to...a plastic model in a tabletop game. You can't believe that you are being genuine, right? You pick and choose what you wish to compare, pretending that there is such "superiority" between modern tech and 40k tech, while conveniently missing all the things that irrefutably demonstrate the technological "superiority" of the 40k universe. What is a modern tank vs a lascannon? vs void shield generators? vs orbital bombardment? Last I checked, we also don't have humans with multiple stomachs, a second heart, extra corrosive saliva, etc. Do we have Titans? Regardless of whether or not the technology could stand up to any variety of missiles, etc. Do we have the capability to make any of those things? For that matter, are modern tanks designed to deal with weapons as exotic as distortion cannons that rip their target from reality and transport them into the Warp? Are there fungal spores on steroids prying its armor plating off with hydrolic, hand-held mechanical claws? How about daemons that fade in and out of reality? Pestilences spawned by an active, undeniable god or viral bombs designed to eradicate all life on a planet?

But, then again, what's it all matter, since "Their tanks look like WW I tanks for crying about loud," right?

There is a point to be made for comparing them with their IRL counterparts, because there are some features that empirically would make them better - like having suspension on their tracks, sloped armour, or having some clearance distance between the hull and the dirt.

On the other hand, we don't have a counterpart for Plasteel, Ceramite, Adamantium, Void Shields and the Power Of Love Incarnate (Warp).

Sloped armor I will grant you. Suspension systems? This assumes there's not some future-tech in the base design that obliviates the need for such as we would recognize it. Dirt, though, gives way for the Emperor's tanks, if it knows what's good for it.

 Grumblewartz wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"So trying to put an Abrams into 40k is an example of a pointless thought experiment"

Not really. We have a hit rate for the Abrams. And then another hit rate for 40K tanks. Those numbers are directly comparable. 40K targeting sucks. 40K is basically the retro future, which basically makes me think that their ground forces would struggle against any non-retro future military.

Their tanks look like WW I tanks for crying about loud. And they don't have gyro stabilized turrets. (Can't fire on the move) And there are precious few seeking weapons. And the weapons ranges are absurdly short. It's like Battletech all over again.

In real futuristic warfare, you don't get to see your opponent, and there is no assault phase. And Orks and bugs just auto-lose for the most part. (Like in the Starship Troopers novel)

Why do people like this even frequent 40k background forums? I have pondered this for some time, and I don't really have an answer. Let us compare a tank - any real world tank - to...a plastic model in a tabletop game. You can't believe that you are being genuine, right? You pick and choose what you wish to compare, pretending that there is such "superiority" between modern tech and 40k tech, while conveniently missing all the things that irrefutably demonstrate the technological "superiority" of the 40k universe. What is a modern tank vs a lascannon? vs void shield generators? vs orbital bombardment? Last I checked, we also don't have humans with multiple stomachs, a second heart, extra corrosive saliva, etc. Do we have Titans? Regardless of whether or not the technology could stand up to any variety of missiles, etc. Do we have the capability to make any of those things? For that matter, are modern tanks designed to deal with weapons as exotic as distortion cannons that rip their target from reality and transport them into the Warp? Are there fungal spores on steroids prying its armor plating off with hydrolic, hand-held mechanical claws? How about daemons that fade in and out of reality? Pestilences spawned by an active, undeniable god or viral bombs designed to eradicate all life on a planet?

But, then again, what's it all matter, since "Their tanks look like WW I tanks for crying about loud," right?

 Selym wrote:
There is a point to be made for comparing them with their IRL counterparts, because there are some features that empirically would make them better - like having suspension on their tracks, sloped armour, or having some clearance distance between the hull and the dirt.

On the other hand, we don't have a counterpart for Plasteel, Ceramite, Adamantium, Void Shields and...

I find it's good to turn a blind eye to the technical unrealism when it's justified by awesomeness. They look like WW1 tanks, but that looks cool- Emperor titans have cathedrals on their shoulders/carapace, which is just silly, but it adds alot of character (as well as some good scenes in Helsreach). Having said that, simply being in a neo-gothic setting with space elves is not in itself a reason to reject realism. I've seen too often that people say "how can you say the Leman Russ is unrealistic in a game which has more unrealistic things like space elves and wizards?" Well that is a fallacy which assumes that just all logic can and will be tossed in the air just because it contains things which are fictional. The 40K universe still has it's own internal logic just as any fandom does- if a Craftworld Eldar shoots at one of his own Craftworld friends for no good reason you can't dismiss it as "meh it's 40K, it doesn't have to make sense"- they still done something which is irrational. Likewise, making a tank without modern principles of sloped armour is also irrational and silly- but it's also cool, so we choose to ignore it.

the Power Of Love Incarnate (Warp).

Lust has a god in 40K, but love doesn't! I'd guess it's just not grimdark enough. Although having some giant care bears running at them will fill my Tau with all sorts of dread.

The Emperor is the god of love.

In the Noble Brightness of the far future, there is only cuddling!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*THE POWER OF LOVE COMPELLS YOU!*

.... this is getting into Ponyhammer 40k, isn't it?

Friendship is magic. Magic is heresy.

 Psienesis wrote:
.... this is getting into Ponyhammer 40k, isn't it?

Friendship is magic. Magic is heresy.

The filial love the Emperor has for all his people... do you dare cheapen it so?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
.... this is getting into Ponyhammer 40k, isn't it?

Friendship is magic. Magic is heresy.

The filial love the Emperor has for all his people... do you dare cheapen it so?

YEEEESSSSS!!

In the vast grimdark of 40k, the only surviving computer technology is the ancient and immortal TI-84, (Texas Instrument 83-89 series) and it still costs $150+ dollars! Cmon wtf? this thing is nearly useless! My Samsung S4 costs just as much but does so much more! God i hate this junk! I have had it lost, stolen, snd broken so I had to buy it 3 freaking times! I could have bought 3 imperial knight titans for thd same cost!

 Filch wrote:
In the vast grimdark of 40k, the only surviving computer technology is the ancient and immortal TI-84, (Texas Instrument 83-89 series) and it still costs $150+ dollars! Cmon wtf? this thing is nearly useless! My Samsung S4 costs just as much but does so much more! God i hate this junk! I have had it lost, stolen, snd broken so I had to buy it 3 freaking times! I could have bought 3 imperial knight titans for thd same cost!

There's a story in there somewhere, isn't there?

I reckon they still have Apple computers in 40k - for Ogryns to use.

The god of love is Nurgle.

40K is grimdark puritan in its ethos. There are no positive emotions.

Alcibiades wrote:
The god of love is Nurgle.

40K is grimdark puritan in its ethos. There are no positive emotions.

And nothing positive comes from lack of emotion. You just can't win.

via Imgflip Meme Maker

 SDFarsight wrote:
I find it's good to turn a blind eye to the technical unrealism when it's justified by awesomeness. They look like WW1 tanks, but that looks cool- Emperor titans have cathedrals on their shoulders/carapace, which is just silly, but it adds alot of character (as well as some good scenes in Helsreach). Having said that, simply being in a neo-gothic setting with space elves is not in itself a reason to reject realism. I've seen too often that people say "how can you say the Leman Russ is unrealistic in a game which has more unrealistic things like space elves and wizards?" Well that is a fallacy which assumes that just all logic can and will be tossed in the air just because it contains things which are fictional. The 40K universe still has it's own internal logic just as any fandom does- if a Craftworld Eldar shoots at one of his own Craftworld friends for no good reason you can't dismiss it as "meh it's 40K, it doesn't have to make sense"- they still done something which is irrational. Likewise, making a tank without modern principles of sloped armour is also irrational and silly- but it's also cool, so we choose to ignore it.[/url]

Well the whole issue with leman russes, as many other pieces of tech in the 40k universe, are not used for their original purpose. Leman Russ is a tractor (whether agricultural or artillery tractor is never verified), Rhino was a all terrain and atmosphere vehicle IIRC. Logically the original tanks in ww1 also used tracked tractors as inspiration and were little better than modified artillery tractors.

Also the vehicles in the 40k universe do share many common elements with modern combat vehicles. Most have sloped frontal armour (sloped side armour is still a rarity), they have AT missiles to augment vehicles with lesser AT abilities, the Chimera for example is pretty much spot on with a modern AFV, especially if you give them hunter killer missiles. The only real issue is side sponsors, which are very ww1'y but actually work fairly well if you have spare room on vehicles. However most ww1, ww2 vehicles lack that room due to size, and modern tanks need to save as much weight as possible. In the 40k universe because of engine tech etc etc heavier vehicles are more viable, as do supply lines become less of an issue when most engines pretty much run on anything.

The main convergence with the 40k universe is superheavy vehicles, walkers and titans. Plus a lack of explanation why A) Nuclear Weapons don't seem to be that common and B) How superheavy vehicles were developed in the first place, surely they would be equally susceptible to artillary and aircraft as the real life attempts were?

So as such compared to real life comparisons, most of the 'normal' vehicles are perfectly fine. You then also have the issue in the 40k universe the imperium does not 'create' vehicles, they have to discover them. The creation of brand new vehicles is pretty much considered as heresy by tech priests. While it was less of an issue around 30k, by 40k if you want to a new AA turret for a leman russ (as an example), you better hope you find ancient plans you can put together. Admittedly they do muddle parts together from different vehicles, but they still need to be STC data or blueprints and even then it can take a few hundred years for it to be approved, if it actually ever is at all.

Basically to cut a long story short, the fluff already explains why many of the imperium's vehicles seem so silly and un-realistic. Just look the Bob Semple tank, which in realistic terms is what the Leman Russ tank is in the 40k universe.

Rhino was a colony rover, kind of like a sci fi. tracked version of a land rover.

Computers of the Imperium I believe are as powerful as TI-83 Calculators.

Sauce?