Raven Guard and White Scars rules from Games Workshop incoming!
This needs its own thread. The rules are part of the Warzone Damocles - Kauyon Campaign Book set released by Games Workshop on October 31, preorder is October 24 2015
- 1st batch of english pics added. Thanks, Sinister Samurai
1) Warzone Damocles - Kauyon (A 2-book set / Hardcover) - GBP 45 / US$ 74 / EUR 60 / CAN$ 90 / AU$ 125 / NZ$ 150 (according to the WD preorder list below)
Spoiler:
Related preorder lists - newest to oldest
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Space Marine content in this 2-book set according to the next White Dwarf issue:
- Maelstrom missions
- formations
- detachments
- relics
- warlord traits for Raven Guard and White Scars
Two of the formations that can be found in Kauyon
Spoiler:
The translation is courtesy of Imeran at Bolter & Chainsword
Imeran - B&C
Rule 2 (Bottom): Each shooting phase every Scout Sergeant and Veteran Scout Sergeant from this formation may scout targets for a different, single unit from this formation within 9". Until the end of the shooting phase, that unit's (the one that was scouted for) weapons receive the "Ignores Cover" special rule.
Rule 1 (Top): Every Scout Squad or Scout Bike Squad from this formation that's currently in Reserves may each lead a single other unit from this formation onto the battlefield. This unit, too, must currently be in Reserves and not in Deep Strike Reserves. When you roll for reserves, you don't roll the units seperately, but only for the unit that leads the other one onto the battlefield. If the Scout Squad or the Scout Bike Squad uses the special rule "Outflank", then the unit that's lead onto the battlefield enters from the same table edge, even if the unit normally may/can't use "Outflank". If you deploy the units in this way (outflank) then the unit that was lead onto the battlefield has the special rule "Stealth" until the start of its next player turn, as long as it is within 9" of the leading unit (the Scouts)
That's the best I can do. I tried to be as specific as possible. If you have questions about anything, feel free to ask. I may elaborate more once the right questions are asked.
That is RAW as I read it, though.
Imeran - B&C
As far as I can tell these two formations are not limited to Raven Guard. Arguably the Shadowstrike Kill Team has a big advantage from RG chapter tactics, but other than the paint jobs these aren't really Raven Guard, much more just Space Marine formations.
But if you mean fluff wise, then yes. They feel definitely the most fitting for a Raven Guard army.
Imeran - B&C
I also can't see anything classifying this as a "Core choice" for the Gladius Stike Force Detatchment. The symbols up top are just those of formations (the Core choices would have a big, white Skull on a black circle with a black ring on its forehead). So no, unless this gets FAQed into the Codex: Space Marines or there is any other information that we can't see, yet, then this is just that: a formation. It has nothing to do with the Gladius.
Imeran - B&C[...]
Son of Thunder - B&C
I checked the SM codex yesterday and actually the classification of core, auxiliary and command is not in the formations themselves, but in the codex page that describes the gladius. This means that there could be another page we're not seeing that makes the pinion a core choice for the gladius, and the shadow strike an auxiliary. Or not
Could be, yes. I think I'm just a bit too pessimistic, hence why I mentioned it but leaned more towards "not likely".
For all we know there could be a paragraph somewhere in the book just saying that the Pinion is a Core choice and the Shadowstrike Kill Team is an Auxiliary choice... Which would be extremely awesome for this book and concerning the future of the Gladius as well.
But hoping that this is so is just setting you up for a big disappointment if they are just formations.
3) There is also a Campaign box set - Shadow Force Solaq - which is already sold out at GW's website in many countries
Thursday 22 October 2015
Operation Shadowtalon
On the world of Prefectia, near the Damocles Gulf, the Ethereal, Aun'Do, has gone missing. His transport shot down by Imperial forces, the young Ethereal carries information vital to the next Tau offensive, which cannot fall into enemy hands. Commander Shadowsun has sent out an Infiltration Cadre to rescue him. But they are not alone in the ruins of Prefectia…
Available in stores on Saturday are Shadow Force Solaq and Infiltration Cadre Burning Dawn, two strike forces with which you can re-enact the hunt for Aun'Do. Due to huge popularity, these sets have already sold out on our webstore, but there will be some in stores on Saturday. Make sure you give your local stockist a call to see how many they have in stock.
The Space Marines set, shown above, hails from the Raven Guard Chapter and is led by Captain Solaq, a brand new Space Marine miniature. The box also includes a Land Speeder, five Sternguard Veterans and five Vanguard Veterans, a highly-experienced strike force tasked with hunting down the Ethereal.
The Space Marine Captain represents Solaq, the leader of the Raven Guard forces hunting Aun'Do. The model is fully compatible with other Space Marine kits and can, of course, be painted in the colours of any Space Marine Chapter.
The Shadow Force Solaq box also includes the War Zone Damocles Campaign Supplement: Operation Shadowtalon, a 32-page book that tells the story of Shadow Force Solaq through a series of missions, enabling you to recreate the battles that take place in the comfort of your own home.
It contains another campaign booklet
WD pics from Iuchiban on Warseer - via Atia at B&C
I just saw on the WD page about the Datacards there are "Maelstrom missions, formations, detachments, relics and warlord traits for RG and White Scars" in the Kauyon book. At least according to that text. We should get a better view of the product on Saturday morning.
It also lets me sub Pedro Kantor for a Captain! This looks like something I could see myself running. It does take a big hit in versatility since you can't pick stuff like Centurions or Bike Squads for the main unit. However, in my case, I could field this RIGHT NOW!
lord_blackfang wrote: I suppose a White Scars box with a unique miniature in plastic would be too much to hope for...?
Captain on bike (heck, make it frickin' Ko'sarro Khan for all I care), Bike Squad, and...something else. I could see that. It would sell a crap ton due to Khan being in there.
Crazyterran wrote: I could see myself trying out the Vanguard formation, the scouts in storms to move up, and then proceed to hurt things. Hurt things a lot.
I know, right? This could be pretty brutal when using LSS. Between being Fast and having Scout, you can practically stick those Speeders wherever you want. The Vanguards are going to get to their target for sure.
lord_blackfang wrote: I suppose a White Scars box with a unique miniature in plastic would be too much to hope for...?
Captain on bike (heck, make it frickin' Ko'sarro Khan for all I care), Bike Squad, and...something else. I could see that. It would sell a crap ton due to Khan being in there.
Seeing that I just bought the last bikes I need for my army the other day, odds look good for new ones!
Interesting that the formations look to be CT agnostic. I like that. Everyone can play at being an Ultramarine with the basic demi-comapany, so this will also give everyone the chance to play at being Ravenguard, White Scars, or whatever else they come out with. Regardless of what chapter they are.
Honestly the benefits to running the smaller formation as RG is only that the scouts should live thru turn one... should. I have read on other forums about the jumppack benefit for RG on van vets, but has anyone read the new heroic intervention rules? Vanguard already reroll charge ranges... and get to choose to reroll only one dice if they want.
The rules seems quite underwhelming. Basically you trade the flexibility to chose bikers instead of ASM, ObSec and tactical doctrine for some ignor cover shots and outflank stuff. AM I reading that right?
lord_blackfang wrote: I suppose a White Scars box with a unique miniature in plastic would be too much to hope for...?
Because the Raven Guard box came with a unique Raven Guard miniature, right?
It came with a miniature unique to that box, which is what I said.
You said a "White Scars box with a unique miniature in plastic".
Nothing about this box was "Raven Guard" beyond the paint scheme on the box. The fact that they did not even showcase the "miniature unique to that box" in Raven Guard colors for the 360 view shows that. This could be a White Scars box if you want it to be. It could be a Blood Angels box or a Space Wolves box or an <insert Space Marine Chapter here> box.
Translated the Warlord trait on the Raven Guard card; working on the White Scars one next:
"In The Darkness, Disappear"
When the unit of your Warlord is chosen as a target for a shooting attack , it can immediately disappear in the darkness . He moves up to D6 inches. Models in the unit of your Warlord located in the radius at the end of this movement , get +1 to their cover saves against the shooting attack , the shooting unit may not select another target , even if the unit of your Warlord is out of reach or sight. The unit of your Warlord can not disappear in darkness more than once per Player Turns and they may not perform this action when it is in retreat or in close combat
White Scars one is...weirdly worded. It doesn't translate well, but I THINK:
"Masterful Rider"
If your warlord is equipped with a Space Marine Bike , you add I permanently to its Jink Saves. If not , you treat this result instead as "Deadly ambush".
I think "Deadly Ambush" refers to "Master of Ambush" instead.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Starting to translate the objective cards. Here's the first Raven Guard objective card(Result 11):
"Attack From the Skies" At the end of your player turn, add 1 victory point if during this player turn at least one enemy unit was completely destroyed by a unit from a Successor Chapter of the Raven Guard or by a unit of the Raven Guard which has arrived by a Drop Pod this turn.
Here's Result 12:
"In The Shadows Hidden" At the end of your player turn, add 1 victory point if any non-vehicle unit of your army is either in a vehicle or a building or within 1 inch of terrain that is not open terrain.
Automatically Appended Next Post: White Scars Result 11:
"Fast Position Change"
If this objective card is drawn, you choose an Objective Marker which does not have a friendly model within 18 inches. If this is not possible , choose the Objective Marker which is farthest from your models on the board. You gain, at the end of your Player Turn, 1 victory point if you move to and secure it.
They get a racing objective? Kinda cool.
White Scars Result 12:
"Bring Them Down" You will receive a Victory Point at the end of your Player Turn, if during your turn at least one enemy unit was destroyed by a friendly unit of the White Scars.
Yeah, glad they are bringing some Raven Guard stuff out, but super disappointed, that the box site is all just regular kits I can buy already, nothing new. They took a Ultramarine veteran and called him a Raven Guard captain. They should have put Shadow Captain Shrike in at least.
I was planning on doing a Raven Guard Force! Excellent timing!
I can either get 100% FW Horus Heresy minis - 30 Maximus with weapons & special weapons & heavy weapons options, 20 raven guard heads, 20 rg shoulder pads, 20 RG chests, landspeeder, 3 outriders, firedrake, set of 3 rhino doors, RG character, 5 mini recon squad all for $451.77 usd total (inc. postage) (or same minis legit via FW $600 usd +postage(?)...)
OR
From gw, This new box, RG character, landspeeder, 3 bikes, stormraven, 5 scouts for about 350ish...Then buy $60 of FW 20 RG heads/chests/pads = 410ish
I would rather have seen the Master of Shadows(Chapter Master), Corvin Severax.
Do we even know what Severax looks like?
Nope, but we have a name for him.
I am fine with it being Solaq. Perhaps he will have good rules. Though I am making him an Honour Guard anyway.
And that's the biggest issue I have with the model. That helmet is atrocious. It's not Raven Guard, it's Ultramarines or Imperial Fists. It's so blingy that it is just awful.
They should take this opportunity to release Upgrade Kits for the other first founding chapters. Ten people could really make this a RG set.
Solaq is a guy that they never have mentioned before. This is supposed to be set during the Third Sphere of Expansion, right?
Corvin Severax led the Raven Guard, personally, during the Raven Guard's fighting in the Third Sphere of Expansion.
You're right, the aesthetics suit UM or Fists (mine is going to be a Crimson Fist and will look quite nice) more than RG.
BTW, that was supposed to say Then not Ten. Fething Autocorrect. An RG upgrade kit should allow you to make a real Shadow Captain, not a Shadow Captain that painted some Ultramarine armor black and white. Have most of the boxed set characters(Krom, Karlaen) been named in the fluff prior to being released?
casvalremdeikun wrote: You're right, the aesthetics suit UM or Fists (mine is going to be a Crimson Fist and will look quite nice) more than RG.
BTW, that was supposed to say Then not Ten. Fething Autocorrect. An RG upgrade kit should allow you to make a real Shadow Captain, not a Shadow Captain that painted some Ultramarine armor black and white. Have most of the boxed set characters(Krom, Karlaen) been named in the fluff prior to being released?
Apparently so.
Krom Dragongaze was namedropped at least two editions ago for Space Wolves(I don't follow Space Wolves lore that much; that was the first I could remember) and Karlaen was in the 5th edition Blood Angels book.
Additionally, going over the fluff material I can find for the two boxes? It's supposed to be the "Battle of Mugulath Bay" or the Battle of Agrellan(spoiler: the Imperium loses), which is the first time the Riptides ever made an appearance.
To throw a funny quote out there though...
The battle to capture the planet has been the largest of the Third Sphere of Expansion, and no less than twelve advanced weapons prototypes were used by the Tau. Only the fusion reactor meltdown that destroyed Mu'gulath Bay's moon proved a failure.
Way back when GW published the Index Astartes article on Raven Guard I've been a fan of their scouti-ness... but in almost every iteration of them since there has been a growing emphasis on their jump pack infantry. Its nice to see these formations that show a stronger scout synergy.
aka_mythos wrote: Way back when GW published the Index Astartes article on Raven Guard I've been a fan of their scouti-ness... but in almost every iteration of them since there has been a growing emphasis on their jump pack infantry. Its nice to see these formations that show a stronger scout synergy.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Don't even model footprints. He is that stealthy. Just make a 32mm base with some sculpted terrain. Make it look like a Shadow is on it.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Don't even model footprints. He is that stealthy. Just make a 32mm base with some sculpted terrain. Make it look like a Shadow is on it.
Severax casts no shadow - he is the shadow!
I could see him having a relic that does something like Grant 3+ Cover and Ignores Cover only reduces it to 4+.
I like Kanluwen idea of making Corvin Severax, they have a bunch of chapter masters out, even some that aren't a first founding, why can't the Raven Guard have theirs.
casvalremdeikun wrote: You're right, the aesthetics suit UM or Fists (mine is going to be a Crimson Fist and will look quite nice) more than RG.
BTW, that was supposed to say Then not Ten. Fething Autocorrect. An RG upgrade kit should allow you to make a real Shadow Captain, not a Shadow Captain that painted some Ultramarine armor black and white. Have most of the boxed set characters(Krom, Karlaen) been named in the fluff prior to being released?
Apparently so.
Krom Dragongaze was namedropped at least two editions ago for Space Wolves(I don't follow Space Wolves lore that much; that was the first I could remember) and Karlaen was in the 5th edition Blood Angels book.
Additionally, going over the fluff material I can find for the two boxes? It's supposed to be the "Battle of Mugulath Bay" or the Battle of Agrellan(spoiler: the Imperium loses), which is the first time the Riptides ever made an appearance.
To throw a funny quote out there though...
The battle to capture the planet has been the largest of the Third Sphere of Expansion, and no less than twelve advanced weapons prototypes were used by the Tau. Only the fusion reactor meltdown that destroyed Mu'gulath Bay's moon proved a failure.
This campaign is supposed to be the battle for the world of Prefectia, which the Tau wants for it's vast geothermal power reserves, or something.
DarkKnights44 wrote: I like Kanluwen idea of making Corvin Severax, they have a bunch of chapter masters out, even some that aren't a first founding, why can't the Raven Guard have theirs.
There are only three first founding chapter masters, two second founding. They aren't common at all for the GW books.
DarkKnights44 wrote: I like Kanluwen idea of making Corvin Severax, they have a bunch of chapter masters out, even some that aren't a first founding, why can't the Raven Guard have theirs.
Hey, you guys have 3 characters. Iron Hands have none!
DarkKnights44 wrote: I like Kanluwen idea of making Corvin Severax, they have a bunch of chapter masters out, even some that aren't a first founding, why can't the Raven Guard have theirs.
Hey, you guys have 3 characters. Iron Hands have none!
The "Chapter Master" of the Iron Hands would just be Smashfether's stats with a name. BOOM. Character complete. I do find it incredibly bizarre that they are the only army with their own Chapter Tactics in the C:SM that doesn't have a single character. Heck, Crimson Fists have their own character. Yes, they are some of the most iconic Space Marines, but it seems silly that the Iron Hands don't. But, like I said, their Chapter Master is Smashfether.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Shadow Force Solaq units are out on BOLS. Reposting.
Land Speeder Darkwing
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Vanguard Squad Darvos
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Sternguard Squad Amerex
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Shadow Captain Solaq
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Shadow Force Solaq
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Damnit, I was hoping the LS Darkwing wasn't unique. I would definitely run some of them. It is kinda funny that it is literally a RW Land Speeder. The Vanguard Vets are expensive and will probably get shot up quite easily. At least the Sergeant had enough sense to take a Storm Shield. That Sternguard Squad is kinda crap (a Storm Bolter, really?). Only two of those Vets are even able to use what makes Sternguard...well...Sternguard. I like the Captain, though. Neat Relic and special rules.
Hi all, please remember that various rude words are against forum rules. Although we have software to detect and replace them, it doesn't work on all possible combinations, like Scunthorpe if you get my meaning.
Therefore please check your own language when posing.
The helmet he wears,is actually pretty good, especially if you play low leadership armies like Tau, Nids, guard.
Maybe it will be one of the relics in the Kauyon book. Probably not worth it over the shield eternal, since I imagine it would be replacing the codex relics.
Might be interesting if you can get it on a librarian or something. Wouldn't you just love all these Death Stars if you can add a leadership to the snapshots required to shoot them?
Well, I'm glad I was planning on building them to suit my Raptors instead of the booklet.
Because wow those are terrible setups. No wonder we've never heard of this Captain before, he's an Alpha Legionnaire pretending to be Raven Guard and giving the worst tactical advice ever!
Kanluwen wrote: Well, I'm glad I was planning on building them to suit my Raptors instead of the booklet.
Because wow those are terrible setups. No wonder we've never heard of this Captain before, he's an Alpha Legionnaire pretending to be Raven Guard and giving the worst tactical advice ever!
at least the land speeder is halfway nice. It pays 5 pts to be a RW Land Speeder. Too bad it can't be taken in squads. I would run three.
A basic HB/AsC speeder is 65 these days, so it’s paying 10 points for scout and the re-roll jink. I’m not a huge fan of that loadout, but it should work. Scout helps with the range issue, and the jink should help keep it alive being that close. Of course, when fighting Tau, I’m not sure speeders are such a good idea.
The captain pays 10 points for the helm, which is quite nice. The problem with him is the lack of AA and the plasma pistol, which is overpriced. That and the lame warlord trait. But I could see putting him in a 9 man sternguard squad in a pod, as a way to try to boost their survivability. He’s not a bad support HQ, but not in the big leagues.
The VVs cause fear? meh.
The sternguard are a unusable mess that torpedo the whole formation.
Nevelon wrote: A basic HB/AsC speeder is 65 these days, so it’s paying 10 points for scout and the re-roll jink. I’m not a huge fan of that loadout, but it should work. Scout helps with the range issue, and the jink should help keep it alive being that close. Of course, when fighting Tau, I’m not sure speeders are such a good idea.
The captain pays 10 points for the helm, which is quite nice. The problem with him is the lack of AA and the plasma pistol, which is overpriced. That and the lame warlord trait. But I could see putting him in a 9 man sternguard squad in a pod, as a way to try to boost their survivability. He’s not a bad support HQ, but not in the big leagues.
The VVs cause fear? meh.
The sternguard are a unusable mess that torpedo the whole formation.
The Captain would be amazing in a First Company Taskforce(three to five units of Terminators, Assault Terminators, Vanguard, or Sternguard in any mix that have Fear and Fearless, and any enemies within 12" of 3 or more units from the formation take LD tests at -2) but that's really the only place I can see myself ever fielding him as it stands.
Nevelon wrote: A basic HB/AsC speeder is 65 these days, so it’s paying 10 points for scout and the re-roll jink. I’m not a huge fan of that loadout, but it should work. Scout helps with the range issue, and the jink should help keep it alive being that close. Of course, when fighting Tau, I’m not sure speeders are such a good idea.
The captain pays 10 points for the helm, which is quite nice. The problem with him is the lack of AA and the plasma pistol, which is overpriced. That and the lame warlord trait. But I could see putting him in a 9 man sternguard squad in a pod, as a way to try to boost their survivability. He’s not a bad support HQ, but not in the big leagues.
The VVs cause fear? meh.
The sternguard are a unusable mess that torpedo the whole formation.
The Captain would be amazing in a First Company Taskforce(three to five units of Terminators, Assault Terminators, Vanguard, or Sternguard in any mix that have Fear and Fearless, and any enemies within 12" of 3 or more units from the formation take LD tests at -2) but that's really the only place I can see myself ever fielding him as it stands.
Funny thing is, with this boxed set, you are 2/3 of the way toward making a 1CTF. I will actually have all the models I need to use it, but I don't particularly want to because the Sternguard would not gain ObSec from Pedro Kantor due to being a separate detachment.
Needing to pass LD on 3d6 with a -2 is brutal. Average rolls would fail. And forcing LD at -2 otherwise snapshots is harsh too.
Honestly, the scouts and vanguard formation make me want to actually take Vanguard Veterans. Heck, they don't even need to use the scouts to get the charge, so long as they deep strike they can do it.
Take one of these with a drop pod heavy list, throw a few locator beacons in...
Heck, one of these and a Skyhammer wouldn't be too bad, either. Give you a solid punch after you drown them in the grav.
Crazyterran wrote: Honestly, the scouts and vanguard formation make me want to actually take Vanguard Veterans. Heck, they don't even need to use the scouts to get the charge, so long as they deep strike they can do it.
Take one of these with a drop pod heavy list, throw a few locator beacons in...
Heck, one of these and a Skyhammer wouldn't be too bad, either. Give you a solid punch after you drown them in the grav.
Yeah, I am really reconsidering my plot to convert the VV into Sternguard. I already converted a box of VV into Honour Guard. I would need a ton more scouts than I already have though.
Gonna pre-order the Raven Guard data cards. Haven't bought anything for 40K in years but I don't want to miss this.
I guess this is the closest I'm ever going to get to a Raven Guard supplement codex like the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists got. Raven Guard Warlord Traits!
I'm not up to date on the new Damocles supplement. Is that just a narrative campaign supplement with rules for the new unique models? Or does it include the rules for the Warlord Traits, and Raven Guard relics? It appears to be sold out now anyway. All I'm interested in are Raven Guard Warlord Traits and Artifacts.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Gonna pre-order the Raven Guard data cards. Haven't bought anything for 40K in years but I don't want to miss this.
I guess this is the closest I'm ever going to get to a Raven Guard supplement codex like the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists got. Raven Guard Warlord Traits!
I'm not up to date on the new Damocles supplement. Is that just a narrative campaign supplement with rules for the new unique models? Or does it include the rules for the Warlord Traits, and Raven Guard relics? It appears to be sold out now anyway. All I'm interested in are Raven Guard Warlord Traits and Artifacts.
The Kau'yon book does not include the boxed set rules. The boxed sets are best thought of as "learning boxes".
The book is where you'll probably find the Warlord traits for Raven Guard, in addition to definitely being where you will find the new Raven Guard themed formations(Pinion Demi-Company and Shadowstrike Kill-Team)
Not particularly bothered about formations. I just want Raven Guard Warlord traits and relics. I take it the Raven Guard counterpart to the Kauyon book is not out yet?
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Not particularly bothered about formations. I just want Raven Guard Warlord traits and relics. I take it the Raven Guard counterpart to the Kauyon book is not out yet?
We don't know if there will be one.
As it stands, the Kau'yon book is the only thing we know of for this "Campaign". It's a two book set, one with fluff and the other with rules.
Additionally it's worth mentioning that the only thing making the boxed set's character unique is his helmet. Everything else can be created via the Codex and his Warlord trait is even on the main Space Marine Warlord Trait table.
Thats handy. Theres a guy who has Tau at my club. We're currently only playing RPG's and board games but lots of us have old 40K armies and might start it up again in future. I could get the book and share it I suppose.
Edit: Ah, its a two book set. I thought Kauyon was one book, with a second companion book for the Raven Guard coming soon.
It should be noted that thus far, none of the rules outside the Solaq boxes set are Raven Guard only. There will RG and WS cards in the book, but nothing else has been revealed that is chapter specific. So far, all we have seen is the Pinion BDC and the Shadowstrike Kill Team, neither of which are chapter specific.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nevermind, the cards are separate. They come with the Warlord Traits. There is a new bundle for WS that comes with a crap ton of bikes and a few speeders. $300. Haven't priced out if it is a deal or not.
casvalremdeikun wrote: . There is a new bundle for WS that comes with a crap ton of bikes and a few speeders. $300. Haven't priced out if it is a deal or not.
I just ordered the Kauyon Book today. I forgot about the cards, but not sure if I will get them or not. Probably will.
What I like is that the Kauyon books cover the additions to the new Tau codex, so you don't have to buy both to get all the rules. That was a surprise when I read that, since GW isn't making you have to buy both to get all the rules.
No photo of the Raven Guard one yet but it was mentioned in WD they would be getting their own detachment (which in GW PR speak meant since Dark Angels a Decurion-style detachment, same with Tau). I am pretty sure there will be one for RG.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Black Library website says this in the Kauyon description:
"Heroes of Prefectia: New relics, warlord traits, Detachments and Formations for the Raven Guard and White Scars, as well as rules for new Tau Empire units and fortifications. If you have the 2013 edition of Codex: Tau Empire, everything you need to bring your Tau Empire collection up to date can be found in this book."
Pinion Demi Battle Company
Shadowstrike Kill Team
Bladewing Assault Brotherhood
Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force
Ravenhawk Assault Group
Raptor Wing
Shadow Force
I can tell you right now that they do not. The battle which preceded the events of the army box was "Agrellan"/"Battle of Mugulath Bay"(where the Tau first employed Riptides)...and the Imperium lost pretty hard.
It will be interesting to see if the Stormlance is restricted to White Scars, or if the fluff parts are just saying it's traditionally used by the White Scars.
After all, any chapter can use the Pinion...
EDIT: reading the page titles, it seems the T'au win, but the Imperium has finally taken notice of their shenanigans. After all, taking a Fortress World is a bit different then taking some barely defended Hive Worlds and backwater Agri/Mining Worlds.
Someone remind me to wait before ordering this, so I don't go and spend 60 bucks on the ebook edition before it comes out, and find out all the Formations are mostly bad.
Though, the real book is tempting because of the cover, despite me not playing Tau. It's really good.
Crazyterran wrote: Someone remind me to wait before ordering this, so I don't go and spend 60 bucks on the ebook edition before it comes out, and find out all the Formations are mostly bad.
Though, the real book is tempting because of the cover, despite me not playing Tau. It's really good.
It has the Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force.
That's the one which came with the web bundle, that people flipped their noggins about.
Crazyterran wrote: Someone remind me to wait before ordering this, so I don't go and spend 60 bucks on the ebook edition before it comes out, and find out all the Formations are mostly bad.
Though, the real book is tempting because of the cover, despite me not playing Tau. It's really good.
It has the Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force.
That's the one which came with the web bundle, that people flipped their noggins about.
No, the one from the online only sale was the Skyhammer Annihilation Force.
The Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force was the old one that had tactical marines.
The Kauyon book has leaked by accident on BL. Talon Strike Force and Scarblade Strike Force are exclusive to Raven Guard and White Scars, respectively. The formations within(many which are quite nice) are not. Nothing allows you to use any of the formations within in a Gladius Strike Force. Looks like I won't be getting this book. It's a shame too, since I really wanted to use the two Battle Demi-Companies within in some capacity.
Spoiler:
Shrike replaces Severax after Shadowsun kills him. Shadowsun has extreme plot armor. She downs Ko'sarro Khan, but leaves him alive, and kills a Chapter Master by outsmarting him. Given that this is the sneaky smart guy Raven Guard, I call BS.
The White Scars Company force can totally spam bikes, either by going full on bikes through the Hunting Force, or running half bikes, half regular with the Stormlance Battle Demi-Company. Either way, Scars plays should absolutely look at this book. It makes bike spam so awesome.
White Scars players or Thunderdome players should get this book, because the Hunters Eye relic gives the wearer +1 BS, and himself and his unit Ignores Cover.
One Smashfether takes the shield eternal, you talk eKhan, and give one of your Librarius librarians the Hunters Eye, since each character can choose what relic list he takes from. You can't have a character using relics from both, but you can have two characters from the same detachment with relics from the separate lists.
Hell, even if you don't take the Khan and take Smashfether instead, take a Librarian, put him in a bike with level 2, give him hunters eye, and have your grav command squad ignore cover.
I might still buy the book, since I own a small tau army. We'll have to see.
But yeah, the hunters eye... 20 points for guaranteed ignores cover.
Thats it, I'm buying it. My wallet hates you for this. Just to be clear, this is the "Warzone Damocles: Kauyon" book right? Thankyou so much for that post, I've been waiting years for a Raven Guard supplement or Codex. I don't play 7e, haven't even played 6e (thought I did get the book for a tenner). But this might finally make me return. Theres a guy at my club with an old Tau army so this might be a good thing to share.
How do relics from different books work? Can I mix and match Raven Guard relics with the core Space Marine Codex relics in a single force?
My favourite relics are the Shield Eternal, Teeth of Terra and Burning Blade. And I quite like the Raven Guard jump pack, lightning claws, sniper rifle and armour relics.
Thats it, I'm buying it. My wallet hates you for this. Just to be clear, this is the "Warzone Damocles: Kauyon" book right? Thankyou so much for that post, I've been waiting years for a Raven Guard supplement or Codex. I don't play 7e, haven't even played 6e (thought I did get the book for a tenner). But this might finally make me return. Theres a guy at my club with an old Tau army so this might be a good thing to share.
How do relics from different books work? Can I mix and match Raven Guard relics with the core Space Marine Codex relics in a single force?
My favourite relics are the Shield Eternal, Teeth of Terra and Burning Blade. And I quite like the Raven Guard jump pack, lightning claws, sniper rifle and armour relics.
Yep, it's from Kauyon. Be warned, the Raven Guard take a fluff beating.
Thats it, I'm buying it. My wallet hates you for this. Just to be clear, this is the "Warzone Damocles: Kauyon" book right? Thankyou so much for that post, I've been waiting years for a Raven Guard supplement or Codex. I don't play 7e, haven't even played 6e (thought I did get the book for a tenner). But this might finally make me return. Theres a guy at my club with an old Tau army so this might be a good thing to share.
How do relics from different books work? Can I mix and match Raven Guard relics with the core Space Marine Codex relics in a single force?
My favourite relics are the Shield Eternal, Teeth of Terra and Burning Blade. And I quite like the Raven Guard jump pack, lightning claws, sniper rifle and armour relics.
You can mix and match, but just not on the same character.
So you can't have a character with the Shield Eternal and the armour of shadows.
And a Raven Guard jump pack (Korvydae).
And an Umbra Ferrox boltgun from Forgeworld.
And a Power Fist.
And a Thunder Hammer.
And a long chainsword/glaive from Anvil Industry (Teeth of Terra).
Basically my converted and magnetised Shadow Captain/Master is my magnum opus.
The Raven Guard also look like they have an awesome Detachment too (that only they can use).
Units in it start rolling to come in from reserves Turn 1 (coming in on a 4+), you can re-roll the Mission, Deployment Type and re-roll the dice to determine who goes first AND units in it can also chose to fail any morale check.
The new rules for White Scars and Raven Guard look great. JSJ bikes anyone? I only wish the Kauyon campaign featured Iron Hands, it would have been the perfect book for me. Both my armies.
I know they're not a First Founding chapter, but they are probably the most well known chapter outside of the First Founding chapters with the Dawn of War series.
Or at least an official system for creating and customising properly costed HQ Characters. Pay x points to upgrade stats, purchase special rules and create unique wargear or relics.
Even though I'd like those formation options to be available to everyone, as a whole they're cool and I LOVE the exclusive relics. I'm hoping to see it done for everyone.
Also an FAQ for the Clan and Sentinels supplements would be fairly nice. Different topic though.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Even though I'd like those formation options to be available to everyone, as a whole they're cool and I LOVE the exclusive relics. I'm hoping to see it done for everyone.
They are available to everyone. The formations are not Raven Guard/White Scars specific. Just the Detachments, Warlord Traits, and Relics. So Raven Guard get the "Talon Strike Force" Detachment and White Scars get the "Scarblade Strike Force" Detachment.
I think he means, as in, Salamanders and Ultramarines (for example) getting their own Chapter Relics/Detachments. We know Crimson Fists and Black Templar got their own Warlord Traits, for example, and Imperial Fists and Iron Hands have their own books / warlord traits / relics.
Same could be said for Cadians/Catachans, Farsight, etc.
Crazyterran wrote: I think he means, as in, Salamanders and Ultramarines (for example) getting their own Chapter Relics/Detachments. We know Crimson Fists and Black Templar got their own Warlord Traits, for example, and Imperial Fists and Iron Hands have their own books / warlord traits / relics.
Same could be said for Cadians/Catachans, Farsight, etc.
He said that he would like to see the formations to be available to everyone.
They are. Just not the Detachments, Relics, or Warlord Traits. The Raven Guard page flatout states that these Formations can be chosen by any army selected from Codex: Space Marines.
Crazyterran wrote: I think he means, as in, Salamanders and Ultramarines (for example) getting their own Chapter Relics/Detachments. We know Crimson Fists and Black Templar got their own Warlord Traits, for example, and Imperial Fists and Iron Hands have their own books / warlord traits / relics.
Same could be said for Cadians/Catachans, Farsight, etc.
He said that he would like to see the formations to be available to everyone.
They are. Just not the Detachments, Relics, or Warlord Traits. The Raven Guard page flatout states that these Formations can be chosen by any army selected from Codex: Space Marines.
The last part of his comment:
"I'm hoping to see it done for everyone."
Though I suppose you were responding to the Formation part, and me right after work had a brain dumb.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Even though I'd like those formation options to be available to everyone, as a whole they're cool and I LOVE the exclusive relics. I'm hoping to see it done for everyone.
They are available to everyone. The formations are not Raven Guard/White Scars specific. Just the Detachments, Warlord Traits, and Relics. So Raven Guard get the "Talon Strike Force" Detachment and White Scars get the "Scarblade Strike Force" Detachment.
Formation and detachment gets used interchangeably. I know some are for everyone, but a few aren't.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Even though I'd like those formation options to be available to everyone, as a whole they're cool and I LOVE the exclusive relics. I'm hoping to see it done for everyone.
They are available to everyone. The formations are not Raven Guard/White Scars specific. Just the Detachments, Warlord Traits, and Relics. So Raven Guard get the "Talon Strike Force" Detachment and White Scars get the "Scarblade Strike Force" Detachment.
Formation and detachment gets used interchangeably. I know some are for everyone, but a few aren't.
Formation and Detachment might get used interchangeably in conversation, but they aren't the same thing.
I can call a Core choice for the Talon Strike Force a "Troops Choice", because they're the same thing by the logic you just expressed.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Technically, the Detachments aren't available to Successor Chapters either.
That's not strictly true. It actually says in the book to treat Successor Chapters as their parent Chapter in all regards for Chapter Tactics--so unless they have their own unique Chapter Tactics, they're good.
So until Raptors are said to be Raven Guard for the purposes of this, you can't use Raptor Chapter Tactics.
Would wreck most Blood Angel armies. It's not a real solution, especially for people that already have vanilla armies and got Blood Angels to play Blood Angels...
SharkoutofWata wrote: Would wreck most Blood Angel armies. It's not a real solution, especially for people that already have vanilla armies and got Blood Angels to play Blood Angels...
*Raises hand* I have my Crimson Fists for my Vanilla Marines. I got Blood Angels for them to be Blood Angels.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Technically, the Detachments aren't available to Successor Chapters either.
I hope we see some of these other Detachments. The book says they are still all Codex Astartes compliant. I want one for Blood Angels.
Just play your blood angels as codex-compliant space marines painted red
Raven Guard? Blood Ravens! White Scars? Crimson Scars! Black Templars? Red Templars!
That doesn't work for Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. No Furioso either. Would wreck my army.
Well, it would be totally unfair to be able to take Centurions and Sanguinary Guard in the faction, right? So I field them *either* as one or the other (not both at the same time). Where you save on is a lot of the grunt work, stuff like razorbacks and power armor guys (assault, tactical, etc.). The elites/fast attack... build moar!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SharkoutofWata wrote: Would wreck most Blood Angel armies. It's not a real solution, especially for people that already have vanilla armies and got Blood Angels to play Blood Angels...
Yeah, technically, I have (fully painted) Ultramarines, Grey Knights, and Blood Angels with a smattering (about 50 models each) of Dark Angels and Space Wolves -- but I like my Blood Angels models the best, especially the grunts, so, for instance, if I'm going to build a Stalker, I'd rather theme it blood angels than add it to my ultramarines.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Technically, the Detachments aren't available to Successor Chapters either.
I hope we see some of these other Detachments. The book says they are still all Codex Astartes compliant. I want one for Blood Angels.
Just play your blood angels as codex-compliant space marines painted red
Raven Guard? Blood Ravens! White Scars? Crimson Scars! Black Templars? Red Templars!
That doesn't work for Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. No Furioso either. Would wreck my army.
Well, it would be totally unfair to be able to take Centurions and Sanguinary Guard in the faction, right? So I field them *either* as one or the other (not both at the same time). Where you save on is a lot of the grunt work, stuff like razorbacks and power armor guys (assault, tactical, etc.). The elites/fast attack... build moar!
Naw. I will just stop collecting Blood Angels until they aren't bottom tier anymore.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Naw. I will just stop collecting Blood Angels until they aren't bottom tier anymore.
That works too
Ironically, I'm modelling Blood Angels right now precisely because they're one of the least powerful factions (and I love their power armor bits). Adds some challenge to the game!
Though you could probably just find the pages on 4chan now, I actually have a copy of the epub version of Kauyon.
So here's the White Scars stuff:
Spoiler:
Scarblade Strikeforce (White Scars Detachment): Restrictions: All models must have the Space Marines faction and they all must be drawn from the White Scars chapter. The Detachment has 1-2 Core choices, 1+ Auxiliary and 0-3 Command.
Command Benefits: Lightning Assault: All models can re-roll failed Initiative tests for Hit & Run. Ride the Wind: Vehicle that Flat Out or Bikes the Turboboost move an additional D6". For Fast vehicle the bonus is instead 2D6". Maximum Impact: When a uni charges an enemy within 8" they gainHammer of Wrath. if they already had HoW then they may re-roll failed To Wound rolls when resolving HoW attacks.
Command Options: Strike Force Command (See Codex: Space Marines)
Reclusiam Command Squad (See Codex: Space Marines)
Librarius Conclave (See Codex: Space Marines)
Core Options Battle Demi-Company (See Codex: Space Marines)
Stormlance Battle Demi-Company: 1 Captain or Chaplain (including the named Captains and Chaplians, Vulkan, Pedro Kantor and High Marshal Helbrecht.) 0-1 Command Squad 3 Tactical Squads 1 Devastator Squad 1 Assault Squad, Bike Squad, Attack Bike Sqaud or Land Speeder Squadron
Clear and Sweep: Re-roll To Hit rolls in the shooting phase when targeting an enemy unit within 3" of an objective marker.
Mobile Firebase: Units with bikes or jump packs can move 2D6" after they shoot in the Shooting phase. Other units only move D6". They may embark upon transports using this move. If they use this move they can't charge in the Assault phase.
Hunting Force: 1 Captain (including Kor'sarro, though he must be riding Moondrakkan) 0-1 Chaplain (including Kor'sarro, though he must be riding Moondrakkan) 0-1 Command Squad 2-5 Bike Squads 1-3 Attack Bike Squads 1-3 Scout Bike Sqauds
The Hunters' Prey: Pick an enemy HQ to be this Formations primary target, then pick to other enemy units to be their tertiary targets. The primary target is the Formations prey at the start of them game. Once they are killed then the tertiary targets both become their prey instead. Units from this Formation may re-roll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls against their prey and have the Furious Charge special rule until the end of the phase if they charge them.
Thunderous Assault: If their unit contains 5+ models, models in that unit make 2 HoW attacks instead of 1.
Auxiliary Options:
Strike Fore Ultra (See Codex: Space Marines)
Storm Wing (See Codex: Space Marines)
Land Raider Spearhead (See Codex: Space Marines)
Anti-Air Defence Force (See Codex: Space Marines)
Suppression Force (See Codex: Space Marines)
10th Company Task Force (See Codex: Space Marines)
1st Company Task Force (See Codex: Space Marines)
Armoured Task Force (See Codex: Space Marines)
Stormbringer Squadron: 1-3 Land Speeder units 1-3 Scout Squads (that must take Land Speeder Storms as DTs)
Locate and Secure: Scout Squads (but not their DTs) have Objective Secured.
Outrider Support: Land Speeder Storms from this Formation get +1 to the Jink rolls if they are within 6" of a Land Speeder from this Formation.
Rapid Deployment: Scouts can disembark from the their Land Speeder Storms as long as the Storms didn't move more than 12".
Speartip Strike: 1-3 Land Speeder units 2 Bikes Squads, Attack Bike Squads or Scout Bike Squads
Strategic Spearhead: At the start of the shooting phase, pick one of the following options: - Pick an enemy unit. If 2+ units from this Formation shoot them then the selected enemy unit must take a Pinning test at the end of the phase, with a -2 modifier for each unit from this Formation after the first 2 that shoot them. OR - Any unit that suffers one or more unsaved wounds from a unit that is a part of this Formation must take a Ld test at the end of the phase. If they fail they can choose to either Go To Ground or be Provoked, which forces them to move as far as possible towards the nearest unit from this Formation in their next shooting phase.
Warlord Traits: 1 - Add 1 to any Jink saves the Warlord makes. If they don't have a bike they have the 'Deadly Ambush' trait instead. Deadly Ambush trait 2.
2 - You may +1/-1 to your reserve rolls if the Warlord is on the battlefield or in Reserve.
3 - Warlord has Tank Hunter and Monster Hunter.
4 - Warlord has HoW. If he did already then he makes D3 HoW attacks instead of 1.
5 - +1 S/A while in a challenge. Re-rolls failed To Hit rolls if they are fighting the enemy Warlord in a challenge.
6 - The Warlord and all friendly units within 12" of him may re-roll their Sweeping Advance rolls.
Relics: (Models that can takes items from the Standards wargear list may take the Banner of the Eagle instead. Can take both WS and SM relics in the same Detachment, but not on the same models. No restrictions to how many WS relics a single model can have.) Banner of the Eagle: (30pts) Models that can take items from the Standards list only. Friendly White Scars units within 12" of a model with the Banner of the Eagle have Fleet and Furious Charge.
Glaive of Vengeance: (30pts) Range - | Str+3/+1* | AP 2/3* | Melee, Master-crafted *Str+3/AP2 on the charge, otherwise Str+1/AP3
The Hunter's Eye: (20pts) +1 BS and ranged weapons of both the wielder and his unit have Ignores Cover.
Mantle of the Stormseer: (20pts) Librarians only. Grant Adamantium Will and knowledge of the Psychic Maelstrom power (from Telekinesis) in addition to other Psychic powers they know. Doesn't count toward Psychic Focus.
Scimitar of the Great Khan: (25pts) Range - | Str+1 | AP 3 | Melee, Warblessed, Master-crafted Warblessed: +3 WS to the wielder if they are in a challenge.
Wrath of the Heavens: (25pts) Is a Space Marine Bike. Can't be taken by models with a Jump Pack or Terminator Armour. If they turboboost, a model with Wrath of the Heavens passes over models and terrain as if they were a Jetbike and can move up to 18"
size=18]Tactical Objectives:[/size] 11 - When generated, choose an Objective Marker that is not within 18" of friendly models or if that isn't possible choose the marker that is the furthest away. Score 1 VP if you control it at the end of your turn.
12 - If you caught and destroyed 1 or more enemy units with a sweeping advance in your turn, gain 1 VP.
13 -If a friendly bike unit completely destroys an enemy unit in your turn, gain 1 VP. If 3 or more enemy units are destroyed by friendly Bikes, gain D3 VPs.
14 - If at least one friendly unit successfully Hit & Runs, gain 1 VP.
15 - If you killed an enemy model that had 3+ wounds remaining at the start of your assault phase, gain 1 VP. If they had 5+ wounds remaining, gain D3 VPs instead.
16 - If you killed an enemy in a challenge in your turn, gain 1 VP. If they were the enemy Warlord, gain D3 VPs instead. If your Warlord killed the enemy Warlord in a challenge, gain 3+D3 VPs instead.
Raven Guard stuff:
Spoiler:
Talon Strike Force (Raven Guard Detachment): Restrictions: All models must have the Space Marines faction and they all must be drawn from the Raven Guard chapter. The Detachment has 1-2 Core choices, 1+ Auxiliary and 0-2 Command.
Command Benefits: Extensive Planning: If your Warlord is part of this Detachment, you may re-roll the Mission, Deployment Zone type and the dice result when rolling off to see who deploys first.
Know When to Strike: Units from this Detachment that are arriving from Reserve can choose to attempt to arrive on turn 1. Make a Reserve roll for any units you choose; on a 4+ they arrive.
Know When to Fade: Units may always choose to fail Morale Checks.
Command Options: Strike Force Command (See Codex: Space Marines)
Reclusiam Command Squad (See Codex: Space Marines)
Core Options Battle Demi-Company (See Codex: Space Marines)
Pinion Battle Demi-Company: 1 Captain or Chaplain (including the named Captains and Chaplians, Vulkan, Pedro Kantor and High Marshal Helbrecht.) 0-1 Command Squad 3 Tactical Squads 1 Assault Squad 1 Devastator Squad 1-5 Scout Squads or Scout Bike Squads
Scout Support: Scout Sergeant or Veteran Scout Sergeants from this Formation can spot for another friendly unit from this Formation within 9". Weapons carried by the spotted unit have Ignores Cover for the phase.
Wayfinder: Scouts and Scout Bike units from this Formation in Reserve can lead another unit from this Formation into battle. Units being led cannot Deep Strike. When making Reserve Rolls, do no roll for the unit being led, instead they arrive at the same time as their leading scout unit. Both unit arrive on the same board edge and may outflank. The led unit has Stealth on the turn they arrive as long as they arrive within 9" of the leading unit.
Auxiliary Options:
Storm Wing (See Codex: Space Marines)
Anti-Air Defence Force (See Codex: Space Marines)
Suppression Force (See Codex: Space Marines)
10th Company Task Force (See Codex: Space Marines)
On time...: VVs from this Formation units can choose to pass or fail Reserve Rolls.
...On Target: VVs from this Formation can charge on the turn they Deep Strike. They do not scatter if they are placed within 9" of at least 2 of the scout squads from this Formation.
Restrictions: Maximum of 30 models may be in this Formation. All models must have Jump Packs.
On Wings of Fire: Once per game in your Movement phase all units from this Formation on the battlefield may enter Ongoing Reserves, even if they are locked in combat.
Thunderhawk Assault: Units from this Formation arrive from Reserves/Ongoing Reserves at the same time.When they arrive from Reserve draw a straight line from a point on any table edge to a point on the opposite table edge. Each unit from this Formation must try to Deep Strike onto a point on this line, and may re-roll the scatter dice when Deep Striking.
Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force: 3 Tactical Squads in Drop Pods 1-3 Land Speeder units.
Dropsite Clearance: At the start of your first turn, before any Drop Pods arrive via Drop Pod Assault, pick a point on the battlefield to mark the center of this Formation's dropsite. Units from this Formation re-roll To Hit and To Wound rolls of a 1 against enemy units within 12" of this point. Drop Pods from this Formation that arrive with 12" of the point only scatter D6"
Shock Assault: Tactical Squads from this Formation can Run and then shoot on the same turn they disembark from their Drop Pod.
Targeted Strike: When the first unit from this Formation is deployed or arrives from Reserve, nominate a unit in the enemy army to be the Assault Group's target. Units from this Formation may re-roll failed To Hit rolls against this unit.
Vertical Insertion: The Stormraven has the Deep Strike special rule. If it Deep Strikes, it must Hover on the turn it arrives.
Raptor Wing 1 Land Speeder unit 2 Stormtalons
Incoming Support: If the Stormtalons are in Reserve, they automatically arrive at the start of the second turn.
Priority Target Received: Once per turn, the Land Speeders can nominate an enemy unit within 18" and in LoS. Until the Land Speeder designate a new target, the Stormtalons can re-roll failed To Wound, Armour Penetration rolls and Glancing Hits against the nominated unit.
Shadow Force 1 Captain (including named Captains, Vulkan, Pedro Kantor and Helbracht) 1 Sternguard Squad 1 Vanguard Squad 1 Land Speeder unit
Acute Senses
Move Through Cover
Scout
Swift Redeployment: Non-vehicle units from this Formation may re-roll the dice for Run moves. Vehicles from this formation can move an additional 6" when they Flat Out.
Warlord Traits: 1 - When the Warlord's unit is the target of a shooting attack, it can move up to D6". Models that are in cover a the end of this move have +1 cover against that shooting attack. The firing unit cannot change their target, even if this move takes the Warlord's unit out of their range or LoS. You can only make this move once per turn and can't do it if you are Falling Back or charging.
2 - At the start of the Charge phase (? guessing they mean sub-phase), pick an enemy unit in LoS of the Warlord. Raven Guard units may re-roll charge rolls against that unit.
3 - Once per game in you Movement phase as long as the Warlord is on the battlefield you can make it Night Fighting until the start of your next turn.
4 - Enemies that wish to fire overwatch must pass a Ld test. If the Warlord is charging through cover, the enemy unit have -2 Ld for the purpose of this test.
5 - When rolling for Variable Game Length, you may +1/-1 the result as long as the Warlord is on the battlefield
6 - Once per game the Walord and his unit can Run and charge in the same turn.
Relics: (A single Vet Scout Sergeant can replace his Boltgun with Nihilus. Can take both RG and SM relics in the same Detachment, but not on the same models. No restrictions to how many RG relics a single model can have.) Armour of Shadows: (35pts) 2+ Armour save. Bearer has Stealth, or Shrouded if they didn't Move/Run/Charge in their previous turn.
Ex Tenebris: (10pts) Range 24" | Str 4 | AP 5 | Assault 3, Rending Precision Shots
Nihilus: (15pts) Veteran Scout Sergeant only. Range 36" | StrX | AP 3| Heavy 1, Sniper, Armourbane, Shadow-shot Shadow-shot: A model equipped with Nihilus can shoot at a different target to the rest of their unit. Counts as Str6 when shooting a vehicle.
The Raven Skull of Korvaad: (15pts) +1 WS/Ld. If the bearer dies, note their last position. Friendly Raven Guard model have Hatred and Rage whilst they are within 6" of this position.
Raven's Fury: (15pts) Jump Pack. HoW attacks made by the bearer have +2 Str and Strikedown.
Swiftstrike and Muder Replaces a model's boltpistol and Melee weapon. Both Swiftstrike and Murder are weapons with the following profile: Range - | Str User | AP 3 | Melee, Flurry, Shred, Specialist Weapon Flurry: After attacking with this weapon, make a number of bonus attacks equaling the number of hits caused. These bonus attacks do not generate more bonus attacks.
size=18]Tactical Objectives:[/size] 11 - 1 VP if 1+ Raven Guard units with the Jump type or that disembarked from a Drop Pod destroys 1+ enemy units in your turn.
12 - 1 VP if at the end of your turn all non-vehicle units are either embarked in a vehicle, building or are within 1" of a piece of terrain (that isn't Open Ground)
13 - 1 VP if 1+ enemy units failed a Morale, Pinning or Fear test in your turn
14 - D3 VPs if you've destroyed the enemy Warlord, Super-Heavy or Gargantuan Creature in your turn.
15 - 1 VP if 1+ enemy units were charged and destroyed by a Raven Guard unit in your Assault phase. D3 VPs instead if 3+ enemy units were charged and destroyed by Raven Guard units in your Assault phase.
16 - 1 VP is you destroyed an enemy FA choice or Dedicated Transport. D3 VP instead if 3-4 were destroyed. D3+3 if 5+ were destroyed
People in other rumor threads have done a similar thing before and from what I've seen haven't gotten in to trouble, as long as they didn't take pictures and upload them to the gallery. Hopefully paraphrasing the rules and collecting them together is all right.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: People in other rumor threads have done a similar thing before and from what I've seen haven't gotten in to trouble, as long as they didn't take pictures and upload them to the gallery. Hopefully paraphrasing the rules and collecting them together is all right.
Yeah that seems to be fine, and thanks a lot for doing the RG stuff too!
Really? People are seriously moaning about the Raven Guard and White Scars actually losing? You are aware that this whole campaign comes right off the back of the last Warzone Damocles book where the Ravens and White Scars and Knights absolutely crushed and humiliated the Tau at Voltaris. Where Kor Sarro almost killed Shadowsun and almost made Aun Va take command away from her. Remember this is a direct follow on from that story, it would be a rehash if the RG and WS won again. I mean nothing could threaten the Imperium if three companies of marines and a few knights could defeat any army.
Plus it completely ignores the fact that this means they're going with the formula of Shield of Baal. Book 1 Xenos win Book 2 Imperium wins. The only difference is that instead of Imperial Guard and SoB getting pawned its marines and apparently god forbid they be portrayed as capable of screwing up and needing another faction (my money is on Admech BTW) coming to save them.
...On Target: VVs from this Formation can charge on the turn they Deep Strike. They do not scatter if they are placed within 9" of at least 2 of the scout squads from this Formation.
Oh god yes YES!!!!
I missed this from 5th Ed. I always loved dropping a squad of Vanguard Vets with claws right in the face of the enemy and fething gak up.
Though I assume I can't attach my Captain to them?
All I need now is my Kayvaan Shrike infiltrating and assaulting on Turn 1.
...On Target: VVs from this Formation can charge on the turn they Deep Strike. They do not scatter if they are placed within 9" of at least 2 of the scout squads from this Formation.
Oh god yes YES!!!!
I missed this from 5th Ed. I always loved dropping a squad of Vanguard Vets with claws right in the face of the enemy and fething gak up.
Though I assume I can't attach my Captain to them?
All I need now is my Kayvaan Shrike infiltrating and assaulting on Turn 1.
Alpha Strikes were always my favourite tactic.
I can't say I have looked at ANY of the formations presented here without salivating.
...On Target: VVs from this Formation can charge on the turn they Deep Strike. They do not scatter if they are placed within 9" of at least 2 of the scout squads from this Formation.
Oh god yes YES!!!!
I missed this from 5th Ed. I always loved dropping a squad of Vanguard Vets with claws right in the face of the enemy and fething gak up.
Though I assume I can't attach my Captain to them?
All I need now is my Kayvaan Shrike infiltrating and assaulting on Turn 1.
Alpha Strikes were always my favourite tactic.
I can't say I have looked at ANY of the formations presented here without salivating.
I could be wrong, but I did some quick math and LSS scouts with the vanguard/scout formation would give the vanguard vets a 66 inch threat range
Really? People are seriously moaning about the Raven Guard and White Scars actually losing? You are aware that this whole campaign comes right off the back of the last Warzone Damocles book where the Ravens and White Scars and Knights absolutely crushed and humiliated the Tau at Voltaris. Where Kor Sarro almost killed Shadowsun and almost made Aun Va take command away from her. Remember this is a direct follow on from that story, it would be a rehash if the RG and WS won again. I mean nothing could threaten the Imperium if three companies of marines and a few knights could defeat any army.
Plus it completely ignores the fact that this means they're going with the formula of Shield of Baal. Book 1 Xenos win Book 2 Imperium wins. The only difference is that instead of Imperial Guard and SoB getting pawned its marines and apparently god forbid they be portrayed as capable of screwing up and needing another faction (my money is on Admech BTW) coming to save them.
Oh yea, they totally won the last book! Nevermind the fact that they lost the Planet that the majority of the campaign was based on, or completed none of their objectives. The trap that Shadowsun willingly walked into because she was hearing voices from Agrellan is totally equatable to:
Spoiler:
1: The Chapter Master of the Raven Guard being offed, (though, if Shrike gets buffs in game later...)
2: The Obsidian Knight dying.
3: Shadowsun packing on Plot Armour equivalent to Draigo.
...On Target: VVs from this Formation can charge on the turn they Deep Strike. They do not scatter if they are placed within 9" of at least 2 of the scout squads from this Formation.
Oh god yes YES!!!!
I missed this from 5th Ed. I always loved dropping a squad of Vanguard Vets with claws right in the face of the enemy and fething gak up.
Though I assume I can't attach my Captain to them?
All I need now is my Kayvaan Shrike infiltrating and assaulting on Turn 1.
Alpha Strikes were always my favourite tactic.
I can't say I have looked at ANY of the formations presented here without salivating.
I could be wrong, but I did some quick math and LSS scouts with the vanguard/scout formation would give the vanguard vets a 66 inch threat range
It's the only good thing in the book for non-Raven Guard and White Scar marines. And god damn does it make me want to get some Vanguards.
Really? People are seriously moaning about the Raven Guard and White Scars actually losing? You are aware that this whole campaign comes right off the back of the last Warzone Damocles book where the Ravens and White Scars and Knights absolutely crushed and humiliated the Tau at Voltaris. Where Kor Sarro almost killed Shadowsun and almost made Aun Va take command away from her. Remember this is a direct follow on from that story, it would be a rehash if the RG and WS won again. I mean nothing could threaten the Imperium if three companies of marines and a few knights could defeat any army.
Plus it completely ignores the fact that this means they're going with the formula of Shield of Baal. Book 1 Xenos win Book 2 Imperium wins. The only difference is that instead of Imperial Guard and SoB getting pawned its marines and apparently god forbid they be portrayed as capable of screwing up and needing another faction (my money is on Admech BTW) coming to save them.
Oh yea, they totally won the last book! Nevermind the fact that they lost the Planet that the majority of the campaign was based on, or completed none of their objectives. The trap that Shadowsun willingly walked into because she was hearing voices from Agrellan is totally equatable to:
Spoiler:
1: The Chapter Master of the Raven Guard being offed, (though, if Shrike gets buffs in game later...)
2: The Obsidian Knight dying.
3: Shadowsun packing on Plot Armour equivalent to Draigo.
...On Target: VVs from this Formation can charge on the turn they Deep Strike. They do not scatter if they are placed within 9" of at least 2 of the scout squads from this Formation.
Oh god yes YES!!!!
I missed this from 5th Ed. I always loved dropping a squad of Vanguard Vets with claws right in the face of the enemy and fething gak up.
Though I assume I can't attach my Captain to them?
All I need now is my Kayvaan Shrike infiltrating and assaulting on Turn 1.
Alpha Strikes were always my favourite tactic.
I can't say I have looked at ANY of the formations presented here without salivating.
I could be wrong, but I did some quick math and LSS scouts with the vanguard/scout formation would give the vanguard vets a 66 inch threat range
It's the only good thing in the book for non-Raven Guard and White Scar marines. And god damn does it make me want to get some Vanguards.
I can only imagine a 10 man squad with 7 pairs of lightning claws and 3 with th/ss dishing out 29 lc (assuming sgt is equipped with them) and 12 th attacks on a first turn charge. Then add in a potential re rolling HoW attacks if they are RG
...On Target: VVs from this Formation can charge on the turn they Deep Strike. They do not scatter if they are placed within 9" of at least 2 of the scout squads from this Formation.
Oh god yes YES!!!!
I missed this from 5th Ed. I always loved dropping a squad of Vanguard Vets with claws right in the face of the enemy and fething gak up.
Though I assume I can't attach my Captain to them?
All I need now is my Kayvaan Shrike infiltrating and assaulting on Turn 1.
Alpha Strikes were always my favourite tactic.
Even better, if they are taken as a part of the special detachment they can CHOOSE to Deep Strike turn 1, and I'm pretty sure nothing prevents them from charging.
...On Target: VVs from this Formation can charge on the turn they Deep Strike. They do not scatter if they are placed within 9" of at least 2 of the scout squads from this Formation.
Oh god yes YES!!!!
I missed this from 5th Ed. I always loved dropping a squad of Vanguard Vets with claws right in the face of the enemy and fething gak up.
Though I assume I can't attach my Captain to them?
All I need now is my Kayvaan Shrike infiltrating and assaulting on Turn 1.
Alpha Strikes were always my favourite tactic.
Even better, if they are taken as a part of the special detachment they can CHOOSE to Deep Strike turn 1, and I'm pretty sure nothing prevents them from charging.
And, given that you have the reroll to deploy first, you have a pretty solid chance of having a brutal Alpha Strike.
Heck man, I'm imagining the most insane T1 Alpha Strike of all time. Talon Strike Force with Shadowstrike Kill Team and allied Skyhammer Annihilation Force. Look! 3+ units that can DS and charge on turn 1, the VVets with perfect Deep Strike if you Infiltrate the Scouts right. And of course the Devastators blowing stuff up. Bonus points if you can put in some more Drop Pods on the Tacs, and/or manage to add in a Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force (two things named Skyhammer...).
You'll have so much junk slamming down turn one and maybe even charging in that it's almost not even funny.
Really? People are seriously moaning about the Raven Guard and White Scars actually losing? You are aware that this whole campaign comes right off the back of the last Warzone Damocles book where the Ravens and White Scars and Knights absolutely crushed and humiliated the Tau at Voltaris. Where Kor Sarro almost killed Shadowsun and almost made Aun Va take command away from her. Remember this is a direct follow on from that story, it would be a rehash if the RG and WS won again. I mean nothing could threaten the Imperium if three companies of marines and a few knights could defeat any army.
Plus it completely ignores the fact that this means they're going with the formula of Shield of Baal. Book 1 Xenos win Book 2 Imperium wins. The only difference is that instead of Imperial Guard and SoB getting pawned its marines and apparently god forbid they be portrayed as capable of screwing up and needing another faction (my money is on Admech BTW) coming to save them.
Oh yea, they totally won the last book! Nevermind the fact that they lost the Planet that the majority of the campaign was based on, or completed none of their objectives. The trap that Shadowsun willingly walked into because she was hearing voices from Agrellan is totally equatable to:
Spoiler:
1: The Chapter Master of the Raven Guard being offed, (though, if Shrike gets buffs in game later...)
2: The Obsidian Knight dying.
3: Shadowsun packing on Plot Armour equivalent to Draigo.
Spoiler:
1- Again, Agrellen is a parade of Speece meereens humiliating and effortlessly beating the tau. They kill thousands of tau and that's before we consider the unkillable knights. Since apparently the tau completely forget that they have manta and barracuda. Shadowsun falling into the trap is more to do with her beig under so much pressure because of her repeated humiliations at the hands of Kor Sarro. Also their goal was always to slow the tau advance until more Imp reinforcements arrive. Or do you really consider it reasonable that three companies should be able to stop the entire tau third sphere expansion? Honestly tey lose like a handful of marines at Agrellen.
22- Iam sorry, generic marine chapter master whose name you can't even produce gets killed by a Xenos special character. Perish the thought.
Oh the tau actually bring a D weapon to kill the knght this time? As opposed to the absurdity of one knight effortlessly killing te entire tau army?
3- As opposed to Kor Sarro or Shrike not being double tapped by a fusion blaster? I get the impression if it was Fatsight then you'd not be making this complaint about two nobodies dying.
I really want to like these Demi companies but I think that the loss of ObSec is just to much. Taking Tacticals that doesnt have ObSec feels like a complete waste...
I have to ask, are all of GWs .epub files as terribly formatted as Kauyon and the Tau Codex? So many words (especially the italicised ones) just run into one another, making those sections a mess to read.
It seems a lot of these formations are very accessible. Some of the ones from the codex require large numbers of things, or can only be worked into big games. These look to be a good way of adding some fast punch to an army, without breaking the bank.
I might just be that I’m looking at these from the POV of my collections and seeing a lot of “yup, I can do that” where as with a lot of the core I had a lot of “I’d need 2-4 more things to make this happen”
But the point values also have a lower entry level. While there are some big ticket items, there are also a lot of 2-3 squads of reasonable things formations.
So, how does everyone else read the rules for the Raven Guard and White Scars relics; specifically, can I mix and match relics from the White Scars list and the Space Marines list on a single character?
It seems to me that I could, but I'm not sure that other people read it that way.
BrokenRecord wrote: So, how does everyone else read the rules for the Raven Guard and White Scars relics; specifically, can I mix and match relics from the White Scars list and the Space Marines list on a single character?
It seems to me that I could, but I'm not sure that other people read it that way.
BrokenRecord wrote: So, how does everyone else read the rules for the Raven Guard and White Scars relics; specifically, can I mix and match relics from the White Scars list and the Space Marines list on a single character?
It seems to me that I could, but I'm not sure that other people read it that way.
The use of the word instead is the hint here.
Gotcha. So it's one list per character. Makes sense.
I am aware that the formations are not Chapter specific, but are the Relics Chapter Specific? Do you need Raven Guard Chapter Tactics to take the Raven Guard Relics or can they be used for Ultramarines or Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics?
Yes, they are Chapter-specific. For example, the White Scars relics can only be taken by "Units in a White Scars Detachment that can normally take items from the Chapter Relics list..."
Doonan wrote: So is there going to be any model upgrade packs for raven guard and wheat scars ? I would love more bits to make up a unit of both.
I would love it if there were upgrades coming. Unfortunately, none of the images from the book appear to have any sort of unique stuff on them.
They should do another 3-5 upgrade kits. Maybe Scars, Raven Guard, and Salamanders. Or release new versions of the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists books and release kits alongside them. We have five First Founding Chapters that need upgrade kits.
Doonan wrote: So is there going to be any model upgrade packs for raven guard and wheat scars ? I would love more bits to make up a unit of both.
I would love it if there were upgrades coming. Unfortunately, none of the images from the book appear to have any sort of unique stuff on them.
They should do another 3-5 upgrade kits. Maybe Scars, Raven Guard, and Salamanders. Or release new versions of the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists books and release kits alongside them. We have five First Founding Chapters that need upgrade kits.
Agreed. I'd love to see Salamanders show up in Mont'Ka, and then upgrade sprues for Sallies, RG, and WS. Give Farsight a plastic model (Skarbrand got a plastic as a SC) and plastic upgrade sprue with some of the Farsight wargear for battlesuits, and some shoulder pads for fire warriors and crisis suits.
At some point also maybe redo Clan Raukan rules/relics with a IH detachment and IH upgrade sprue, and Defenders of Terra IF relics and traits with an IF detachment and upgrades. They could do those two as a campaign vs say Orks (and more Ork models/new codex) next year as a GW tie in with the Beast Arises series from BL.
The relics are actually really good for most of the part. Some seems like no brainers really. 10 pts str 4 assault 3 "bolter" The sniper rifle at str 6 with armour bane will put a dent in most armour. Almost as good as the old Vindicare assasin. But most of all, 20 pts for ignore cover on a whole squad. Thats awesome.
Crazyterran wrote: Theres what, Ultramarines (relics, WLT) and Salamanders (Relics, WLT, Detachment) team up to kill some Tau?
I'm on board.
Give the Salamanders some awesome flamer, the Ultramarines a Gladius, and everyone is happy!
I play neither, but I think that would be pretty awesome. However, Salamanders did not participate in the Damocles Crusade, so I wouldn't expect them to see stuff. Then again, they could be mobilized in response to the Tau beating on the White Scars and Raven Guard. As for the IF and IH getting updated supplement books, yes please! I would buy the IF one in a heart beat if it was as awesome as the stuff the Scars and Ravens received.
One crappy thing I noticed about the book is that I can't use the Land Speeder Darkwing in any of the formations. I wanted to use it in the Raptor Wing formation. Oh well. I still plan on running the formation anyway since I already run two Storm Talons and can make room for a Speeder or two. Being guaranteed to come in Turn 2 with the Talons and rerolling wounds and armor pens is just too good to pass up.
I think the Bladewing Assault Brotherhood and Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force formations are probably my favourite. Off the top of my head, a list I could do would include ...
A 5 man unit of Vanguards -jump packs -5 storm shields -1 eviscerator -a couple melta bombs (they're basically a delivery system for the Captain, and they all go HQ and Heavy Support hunting, with melta bombs for targets of opportunity).
Two 5 man units of Assault Marines -2x power fists -2x flamers
Two 10 man Tactical Squads in drop pods -flamer and heavy bolter/missile launcher -2x powerfists
One Landspeeder -multi melta
One Stormtalon -Skyhammer missile launcher (dedicated tank hunter)
Two 5 man units of Scout snipers -One Vet Sgt with the sniper boltgun relic (finally I have a legal use for my Raven Guard Telion conversion)
More 5 man Scout units -boltguns, missile launchers, heavy bolters, shotguns -power fists.
One 5 man Sternguard squad -5 boltguns -Razorback with Assault Cannon? Or Plas/Las combo. (localized fire support for the scouts and tactical squads).
An entire army of Deepstriking Assault Marines, Vanguard Veterans and Tactical Squads, one land speeder, one Stormtalon, squads of infiltrating scout snipers to hold objectives, and a 5 man Sternguard squad in a Razorback to hose down high toughness enemies with hellfire rounds.
if ultramarines and salamanders are the only ones left missing anything unique, do you guys grace the possibility of perhaps at least UM showing up for book II: mont'ka, and salamanders maybe in another campaign against perhaps DE?
angelofvengeance wrote: Except White Scars don't really like to use Dreadnoughts... they're all about the fast attack so bikes, speeders and aircraft.
It's not that they don't like to use them, they just don't use them at all. They believe that the spirit should be free after death not cooped up in a sarcophagus. It has nothing to do with them being too slow.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I think the Bladewing Assault Brotherhood and Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force formations are probably my favourite. Off the top of my head, a list I could do would include ...
A 5 man unit of Vanguards
-jump packs
-5 storm shields
-1 eviscerator
-a couple melta bombs
(they're basically a delivery system for the Captain, and they all go HQ and Heavy Support hunting, with melta bombs for targets of opportunity).
Two 5 man units of Assault Marines
-2x power fists
-2x flamers
Two 10 man Tactical Squads in drop pods
-flamer and heavy bolter/missile launcher
-2x powerfists
One Landspeeder
-multi melta
One Stormtalon
-Skyhammer missile launcher
(dedicated tank hunter)
Two 5 man units of Scout snipers
-One Vet Sgt with the sniper boltgun relic (finally I have a legal use for my Raven Guard Telion conversion)
More 5 man Scout units
-boltguns, missile launchers, heavy bolters, shotguns
-power fists.
One 5 man Sternguard squad
-5 boltguns
-Razorback with Assault Cannon? Or Plas/Las combo.
(localized fire support for the scouts and tactical squads).
An entire army of Deepstriking Assault Marines, Vanguard Veterans and Tactical Squads, one land speeder, one Stormtalon, squads of infiltrating scout snipers to hold objectives, and a 5 man Sternguard squad in a Razorback to hose down high toughness enemies with hellfire rounds.
Vanguards can't have eviscerators, only assault squads. :(
aracersss wrote: if ultramarines and salamanders are the only ones left missing anything unique, do you guys grace the possibility of perhaps at least UM showing up for book II: mont'ka, and salamanders maybe in another campaign against perhaps DE?
frankly with ultramarines getting soooooooo many rerolls via formations and such they dont need anything. Seriously what is their miss precentage now with tactical and devastator doctrines 4 or 5 turns a game.
...White Scars are the most powerful marine army in the book, did they need something? Like ignores cover on an entire unit?
Most powerful Gladius is a white scar one with Khan. White scar bikers are a pretty good choice over Iron Hands as well. The only thing Ultramarines have for power builds is Centurions, and Loth/Red Scorpions are probably better.
The White Scars have been the most competitive choice for like three books now, and needed something the least.
And tactical and Devastator squad accuracy..? Lol. Funny joke, guy.
aracersss wrote: if ultramarines and salamanders are the only ones left missing anything unique, do you guys grace the possibility of perhaps at least UM showing up for book II: mont'ka, and salamanders maybe in another campaign against perhaps DE?
frankly with ultramarines getting soooooooo many rerolls via formations and such they dont need anything. Seriously what is their miss precentage now with tactical and devastator doctrines 4 or 5 turns a game.
Reading the Kauyon rulebook now. So beautiful. However...
"If you own a deck of Raven Guard Tactical Objective cards, you can generate objectives by shuffling the cards and drawing the top card instead of rolling a D66.
What the feth is a D66? I guess you roll one D6 to generate 10-60, and a second D6 to generate 1-6? Heh, I was wondering why all my Objective Cards were numberd 1-6, 11-16, 21-26 etc...
What the feth is a D66? I guess you roll one D6 to generate 10-60, and a second D6 to generate 1-6? Heh, I was wondering why all my Objective Cards were numberd 1-6, 11-16, 21-26 etc...
That is correct. It is explained in the rule book, in fact.
I'm just flipping through. Probably skipped over that page.
I only have the 6e 40K core rulebook, would this 7e Kauyon rulebook be incompatible with the 6e rules? Were there many new special rules introduced in 7e? What were the major changes from 6e - 7e, besides Formations?
Theres maybes 3 other guys at my club with old 40K armies one Imperial Guard, two Tau players, and I have Raven Guard, which makes this new Tau-Raven Guard-White Scars book perfect ).
None of us have played in years (I lasted play during 5e, though I picked up the 6e rulebook for £10 a while ago), so if we're to get a 40K scene going I'll probably be the one incurring most of the costs, the other guys are more focused on board games. Don't really want to fork out £50 if I don't have to.
I only have the 6e 40K core rulebook, would this 7e Kauyon rulebook be incompatible with the 6e rules? Were there many new special rules introduced in 7e? What were the major changes from 6e - 7e?
Many.
Too many for a news and rumors thread. Try 40k General.
Crazyterran wrote: ...White Scars are the most powerful marine army in the book, did they need something? Like ignores cover on an entire unit?
Most powerful Gladius is a white scar one with Khan. White scar bikers are a pretty good choice over Iron Hands as well. The only thing Ultramarines have for power builds is Centurions, and Loth/Red Scorpions are probably better.
The White Scars have been the most competitive choice for like three books now, and needed something the least.
And tactical and Devastator squad accuracy..? Lol. Funny joke, guy.
aracersss wrote: if ultramarines and salamanders are the only ones left missing anything unique, do you guys grace the possibility of perhaps at least UM showing up for book II: mont'ka, and salamanders maybe in another campaign against perhaps DE?
frankly with ultramarines getting soooooooo many rerolls via formations and such they dont need anything. Seriously what is their miss precentage now with tactical and devastator doctrines 4 or 5 turns a game.
Someone has never played a well built ultramarine list with mostly tacticals, some lascannon devastators, and about 9 free razorbacks. Tactical doctrine is devastating from 50 marines with a smattering of flamers, plasma and melta. And my most common opponent uses that doctrine twice, as well as his 2 5 man devastator squads with that doctrine.
Definitely gonna hunt one down for the helmet
I guess you roll one