So I come from fairly poor to lower working class family. One side of my family barely makes any money. And recently during christmas my mom brought up my hobby of building kits and how much one cost that she got me. I told her later that I didnt like it cause I dont like people knowing how much I spend on things. Both her and my aunt told me not to be ashamed and that I have built up my hobbies by myself(considering alot of it was christmas and B-day stuff) and I shouldnt feet ashamed considering I dont drink or do cigarettes like the rest of my family.
But I cant help but hide this expensive hobby from my family. And I have been thinking about this because I saw the build and paint kits and wondered if I should get the larger ones for my two nephews. But Do I want to get them into a hobby their family cannot afford.
So Im wondering, does anyone ever hide their hobby because of how expensive it is?
The hobby only really needs to be as expensive as you make it. You can make tanks out of household recycling or you can spend hundreds on 'high end' model kits. Like wise, you can labour days or months into just a couple of models and spread your purchases out very far, making your hobby cost very little on a per day basis, or you can buy a new kit every week (probably leaving it as little more than a pile of grey plastic).
Why would the hobby need to be a burden on their family? My family wasn't exactly in the gutter, but besides replacing outgrown clothes and food I would only get given things on Christmas and Birthdays. You can be the 'model kit guy' that gives them their models at these times. Perhaps when you make visits to the family you can give small gifts such as paint sets and so on to keep their hobby stocks supplied.
Also the hobby is a great excuse to spend time with the kids, you can teach them scratch building techniques, helping them make scenery, vehicles and dioramas.
Only problem being is kids are insatiable, often 'more' is one of the first words people learn. So don't feel bad and good luck!
Went from upper middle class to poor. Felt guilty for spending what little play money (read leas than 100$ a year,) had on minis instead of the norm such as videogames.
It faded for me when I became independent and every dollar was a dollar I earned by myself. If it makes you happy, then do it.
If you still feel guilty even after all of that then justify it with the occassional purchase or being more moderate but, still a hobbyist.
Be your own man or woman, within reason and do what makes you /happy./
Does anyone ever hide their hobby because of how expensive it is?
Nope I just lie to my partner about how much it costs.
Any packages coming into the house by mail are 'for a friend', all bnib is kicked home, hidden in the garage, antiqued then squirreled into the hobby room to be casually revealed at a later date as 'this old thing'.
I count her shoes and accessories on a weekly basis, she must think I'm stupid.
Yeah, it no ones business but mine how I spend my time and money (significant other aside). I cannot understand the mentality of feeling ashamed of have more than someone else, even if it is only on a relative scale. I'm pretty sure most normal people certainly do not begrudge others having more than them.
Nonetheless it's only right that a little humility is shown in the other direction, no one like their noses being rubbed in the fact the have less means than you.
Of course if they have money for booze and smokes then feck 'em.
I've never been ashamed of any aspect of the hobby. It's hard for people to say 'that's too expensive' when they're paying £50-60 for a Call of Duty/Battlfield/Assassin's Creed that's exactly the same as the last one every year, or spending what I'd pay for a Tactical Squad on a night of clubbing every week! It's similar to what I said in another thread about time spent on the hobby; so long as you can afford it, and other aspects of your life aren't suffering for it, there's nothing to be ashamed of.
I do try and hobby 'on the cheap' as much as possible, but that's simply to make my fairly limited budget go further, same reason I rarely buy new/full price video games, buy clothes in charity shops ect, rather than because I am in any way guilty about the stuff I buy.
If you want to do some hobby-related stuff with family members that can't really afford to play 40k, why not look into one of the many cheaper alternatives? You can pick up a box of 1/72 WW2 soldiers or a Spitfire or a Panzer for about $10 or so, download a free and simple ruleset off the internet if you want to play with them ect. That way, they can share in your hobby without breaking anyone's bank.
Nope I just lie to my partner about how much it costs.
Any packages coming into the house by mail are 'for a friend', all bnib is kicked home, hidden in the garage, antiqued then squirreled into the hobby room to be casually revealed at a later date as 'this old thing'.
I count her shoes and accessories on a weekly basis, she must think I'm stupid.
There is a running joke among firearms enthusiasts: My greatest fear is that when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them... Personally, me and my partner have separate and dedicated fun-money budgets that we can use as we like and there's no requirement for subterfuge.
If it's your own money then it's no-one else's business. I'll hazard that their cigarette habit would support a 40K budget quite nicely...
As for getting other people into this or any other hobby I think it's important to be clear about the cost - both the need-to-spend and the want-to-spend amount. Where they're kids it's more difficult because they don't have their own money to spend.
Not really. I never make an effort to really let them know, but I don't exactly hide it either. Most of the time people find out about it when I'm painting somewhere where they can see it, or see my cases in the car. The reactions are always interesting if I've not mentioned it, especially among coworkers when we're staying somewhere together, but that's about it.
They ask questions for a few minutes, ask me how I got into it, ask if it's hard, then that's usually the end of it.
I never tell them how much I spend on it though. Mainly just because I don't want to hear the questions of "how you can spend that much on models?" I usually just crack jokes about how I never have to spend money on booze so I have tons of money left around for whatever I fancy
I plan to have a small, well painted section of my army on display in the living room or near it. Not a huge geek wall of stuff, but I will proudly display it to anyone that comes over. It will probably be as small as a few models framed/encased on a shelf. Heck, I've been longing to buy a piece from Jen Haley to display proudly as both a work of art and geekdom.
As others have said, there are a lot of very expensive hobbies out there, and few of them ever are ashamed of it. For as much as you've spent on miniatures and models, there are people who have spent tens of thousands on cars that they don't drive.
Life is short, pointless, and everyone will die. So who cares how much you spend on something so long as it's within your means and not hurting you or anyone else?
It also helps that geek media is so much more acceptable these days with the rise of comic book everything.
Nope, I'm lucky enough to have a partner who finds the time and effort I put into my little plastic men, a wonderful quality. Its not just her but even when others have taken pot shots at me because of my hobby I've never felt ashamed, It relaxes me and I have a physical item to hold in my hand that represents my time spent that I look at with fond memories. If someone is petty enough to dislike you for a harmless hobby that doesn't interfere with anything then well that their problem.
40k is something I enjoy and even if there is abit of sticker shock, its nothing that isn't easily overcome with some of smart budgeting. If you enjoy it, enjoy it.
I think I'm more ashamed of it being considered massively nerdy. It always makes me cringe when people come round my house for the first time (especially girls) and they go "Oh is that, like, Warhammer?" followed by something like "My little brother used to play with those". I've strategically hidden all my actual Warhammer stuff where people won't find it. But to people who don't care, Soda Pop and Infinity etc, is all Warhammer, and it conjures up bad memories of that time they went into GW to look at all the cute stuff, and some smelly neckbeard flipped out at them, unexpectedly, for touching something.
the cost is more annoying than embarrassing. I remember maybe 5 years ago, my former flatmate expressed an interest in picking up some space marines, but when he realised how much they cost, his face change from "interested" to "outraged and disgusted", and needless to say it put him right off the idea (and that was 5 years ago's prices). I can't say I blame him. When you can buy a big bag of green army men for 99 pence, it's a bit difficult explain why the slightly better army men are £12 each.
hotsauceman1 wrote:Both her and my aunt told me not to be ashamed and that I have built up my hobbies by myself(considering alot of it was christmas and B-day stuff) and I shouldnt feel ashamed considering I dont drink or do cigarettes like the rest of my family.
I'd listen to them, TBH. This hobby can be expensive, but I don't drink or smoke meself, and when I look at some of the expenses there, I feel like I'm saving a bit that can be diverted towards a few models.
On the subject of embarassment, I've got a slight advantage in that I can open the discussion with the sculpts I ocassionally make and how much it costs other people to buy them off me.
And I have been thinking about this because I saw the build and paint kits and wondered if I should get the larger ones for my two nephews. But Do I want to get them into a hobby their family cannot afford.
I think this is a different matter to feeling embarassed about your purchases for yourself. I don't have any easy answers, although I think other posters have already been helpful there. I'd agree that it depends on whether you're getting them into the wargaming hobby or - pardon the expression - the GW HHHobby. GW might be clever by introducing 'gateway' models to toy shops, but I'd debate how advantageous that is to the person then attracted to start 40K. If they're not already hooked on 40K, they might be able to get just as much fun from something... cheaper.
But it's up to you. I'm not twisting your arm. If you think they'd get a kick out of it, and if they can keep going with gifts and discounts etc. (and if you want to join in) then go for it.
kronk wrote:Anyone that doesn't like my hobby can duck my sick.
Nope. If I had to hide this hobby because of cost, I would also have to figure out how to hide my watches, car, guns, knives and all my other hobbies that are more expensive than this one. Warhammer is no more expensive than a video game system, extra controllers and 10 or 12 games.
OP: I think that its natural to want to downplay your valuables when other people are struggling, but 40k isn't expensive enough to make or keep anybody poor. People find $5 a day for smokes or scratch offs, that adds up to way more than a 40k army a year.
Personally, I'm an adult with an adult hobby. Anybody other than my wife tries to tell me how to spend my money, we've got a problem. Even my wife is fine with me spending money on things I'll actually build, paint, and use. She just doesn't want me buying stuff that's only going to sit on the shelf in the box.
Hmmmm... I have run games at the mall, I have run games at Burger King, Wendy's, and Old Country Buffet.
I run a game at a local dry bar, and I used to run the game at a summer program for gifted youth.
Every year I run a game at a pagan retreat - in spite of being Unitarian, not pagan. (The Unitarian church helps run it... we play 'More Religiously Tolerant Than You' games. ) Where my good lady sat skyclad in my lap, in an attempt to seduce me (I just thought that she was a pagan being a pagan, and trying to freak the 'dane*).
I paint miniatures at Burger King so often that the manager has sent me customers to paint miniatures for.
I am very shy and insular about my hobby....
The Auld Grump
* It took years, but the seduction did work, eventually....
As others said before, this hobby is as expensive as you make it. Impulse-buying aside (some people really do have a problem with that) I'd say it's cheaper than smoking.
Toofast wrote: Warhammer is no more expensive than a video game system, extra controllers and 10 or 12 games.
Neither is a pair of $400 Gucci sunglasses, but that doesn't mean there isn't a huge markup.
What does that have to do with anything?
Came up in a thread about GW prices - I think that the general consensus was that anyone silly enough to buy $400 sunglasses is also silly enough to think that GW provides good value for money. (Yes, there was somebody using the fact that they bought overpriced sunglasses to justify GW prices... takes all kinds.)
OP, I hear you. I'm an adult with a steady job, but I live within a pretty tight budget. Bills come first, hobbies come last. If it wasn't for scratch building and second-hand minis, I wouldn't be in this hobby at all. I have found some amazing deals, but the temptation is always there to buy more, more, more. Just think of how much money I saved compared to retail, right? But you know what? You can go broke saving money. So I keep a tight grip on my spending, while still trying to have fun.
I think it's great that you are thinking about getting gifts for your nephews, and I give you credit for considering if those would be appropriate gifts for them given their financial situation. Others have mentioned that 40k is not as expensive as some hobbies, and this is true, but it's all relative. If your nephews' families are not in a position to support this hobby, then maybe buying them some starter kits isn't the best idea. You can share your hobby interest in other ways, like inviting them over to paint, build terrain, scratch build some tanks, kitbash, etc. If you have enough models for 2+ armies, you could play a game with them. Then you would be spending time with them and sharing your hobby interest.
Have you shared your hobby with your nephews yet? Have your nephews expressed interest in the hobby, or modelling in general at all?
Ashamed? Not that I can recall, but I didn't start this gaming hobby until I was 18-19 and using my own money. I don't exactly hide my hobby but I don't really advertise it, either. Whether other people approve or not is irrelevant to me.
I had made model kits prior to this, and done electronics kits, but I didn't know about gaming until mid-high school, when I had better things to do (science/chem nerd) - but the goths/metal/rivetheads I used to hang with were ALSO gamers, so it was hardly a secret there.
I'm not ashamed at all, and whilst I don't seek out opportunities to bring it up with work colleagues, I wouldn't avoid 'confessing', and will happily say that I am into it if the conversation goes that way. That happened last month, and the person I was talking to turned out to be a gamer as well. One more opponent to enjoy!
Not really of how expensive it is, no. In fact, I go to great lengths exactly why FoW can be played so cheaply, since you can't copywrite WWII.
I don't hide it much otherwise. I avoid discussing it with certain people who feel that it's not a real hobby for anyone over 10 years old, but that's because that's all they have to say on the matter and there's no convincing them otherwise, so why bother.
It's not something I bring up on a first date usually...but I think my years of being nervous about telling people about my hobby are behind me. Even though I've received some flack about it from co-workers in my adult life for some strange reason.
Ever since I started "hobbying" and not so much "gaming" Ive stopped being concerned about what others think because I'm starting to take real pride in my painting skills and what I produce.
Usually people are interested and ask questions when they see the display cases full of beautifully painted mini's. I'll answer questions about it but usually try not to ramble on too much so they don't get bored. I think most people ask out of a morbid curiosity or politeness. But I had a friend who kept on asking about it for weeks, until I realized he was actually interested in the game and started playing. I guess I figure most people don't care.
The only thing I feel a little weird about is telling people how much I spend on it. Even I don't like looking at my bills.
thought for SURE this was a males shame over girls finding out about it. i never consider something i buy shameful. That is I don't buy things that are actually shameful like alcohol and cigarettes.
I'm not ashamed at all and enjoy telling people about it, if they should ask.
However, I'm not sure if I will ever enjoy walking into a Games Workshop, or any FLGS, or even any video game store. I find it incredibly awkward.
When I was a real young kid, I'd get my mom to go to GW for me because I found it such an awkward experience and I didn't want the store owners to ask me about what army I play and whatnot.
I do most of my shopping online, but a few months ago I went into a GW and there were some people playing. Now, I support people playing at a store completely, love it, great thing... in theory. But actually walking into a store with that I find a super awkward experience. I find walking into a gaming store much more awkward than a porn/sex toy store.
I hide the fact that I play this game while I'm with work colleagues, because I don't want people at work to think that I'm childish, which is exactly what people think of you when you reveal that you play with toys.
As far as price, half or more of my at home friends also play, so I never feel ashamed about that.
When I have dinner guests, they will inevitably see my large collection of warhammer. I do my best to play it off like its nothing and keep it from coming up in conversation.
If they ask questions, I pretend I'm not particularly interested in it and they will quickly find it boring and move on.
My work colleagues would never guess that I have such a hobby.
I think there's a big difference between not being ashamed of one's interests versus flaunting wealth or a luxury in front of a family or friend that can't afford something like that and would be envious.
First, frankly, I don't think even my least fortunate friends not in the hobby would feel envious in the least about my truckloads of models and crazy amount of space in my home dedicated to hobby, because it would be no different than if I had a basement cabinets with exotic collectible spoons from around the world. Like, my models are so uninteresting to them that they might as well be blocks of firewood; but that's okay, because I might think the same thing of their hobby, whatever that may be.
It's not quite the same as showing off a new car or watch or even phone, where you might have to be sensitive to someone feeling bad that they can't have it.
Second, in absolute dollars, the hobby just isn't that expensive, if you don't go nuts buying stuff and you're gainfully employed in a first-world country. If you buy a reasonable amount of supplies and the odd box of models here and there, it's a lot cheaper than a lot of other hobbies. If someone can't afford painting the odd model, they won't be able to do a whole lot of other things either.
I mean, to put it in perspective: I have friends who don't really earn very much more than minimum wage spend more on beer and cigarettes than I do in models.
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coldgaming wrote: However, I'm not sure if I will ever enjoy walking into a Games Workshop, or any FLGS, or even any video game store. I find it incredibly awkward.
When I was a real young kid, I'd get my mom to go to GW for me because I found it such an awkward experience and I didn't want the store owners to ask me about what army I play and whatnot.
I do most of my shopping online, but a few months ago I went into a GW and there were some people playing. Now, I support people playing at a store completely, love it, great thing... in theory. But actually walking into a store with that I find a super awkward experience. I find walking into a gaming store much more awkward than a porn/sex toy store.
I'm not trying to be in any way insensitive or confrontational, but may I ask why? Would it be different if you were interested in gardening, and went into a place to buy seeds, or into woodworking and went into a store to buy a miter saw?
Personally, I would feel more awkward walking out of an adult store. A funny aside: for a time, one of the hobby shops I frequented was neighbors with a sex toy shoppe
Ashamed of it? Hell no!!!! I was asked by a defense lawyer from the state what my hobby was and i proudly proclaimed WARMACHINE!!!!!!!! Judge asked me what is Warmachine, so I had to take 15 minutes of court time to explain. Few months later my wife and I where reading throught the court documents and had a good laugh.
that is, it's not considered "normal" for girls to like this sorta stuff ... for some weird reason. And in the back of my mind, cuz I'm a mom, sometimes I think, should I really get that when I can buy something for the kids? But then, I take a good look and realize they have food, clothes all the important stuffs, lots of books, games they like - I am ok to spend money on myself, as long as I'm not breakin our budget.
My hubby is very supportive of my obsession At least he knows better than to ask Usually if he does ask, he just asks, "What did I buy you?" lol
And yeah I also think it's a fair point that you could teach your nephews about the game, yes it's expensive or can be but there are alternatives as mentioned, also, sometimes just having something like that, that you really like, even if you don't have a lot of money, can be a good motivation for getting a job, working hard and getting that thing you like.
Even if you introduce your nephews, and they don't have a lot of money, you could help them out, getting items for gifts and such. But yeah the family time aspect is the most important - it's a great thing to teach a child. Some adults may call it a silly game, but if they're spending time with you, learning, then they're learning that they're loved, they're important, as well as actual skills - this is something any child needs. And honestly, with all the video gaming going on now, there's a lot less of this sort of interaction going on anymore.
coldgaming wrote: However, I'm not sure if I will ever enjoy walking into a Games Workshop, or any FLGS, or even any video game store. I find it incredibly awkward.
When I was a real young kid, I'd get my mom to go to GW for me because I found it such an awkward experience and I didn't want the store owners to ask me about what army I play and whatnot.
I do most of my shopping online, but a few months ago I went into a GW and there were some people playing. Now, I support people playing at a store completely, love it, great thing... in theory. But actually walking into a store with that I find a super awkward experience. I find walking into a gaming store much more awkward than a porn/sex toy store.
I'm not trying to be in any way insensitive or confrontational, but may I ask why? Would it be different if you were interested in gardening, and went into a place to buy seeds, or into woodworking and went into a store to buy a miter saw?
Personally, I would feel more awkward walking out of an adult store. A funny aside: for a time, one of the hobby shops I frequented was neighbors with a sex toy shoppe
I can't explain it, other than perhaps some internal holdover from childhood. I'm not ashamed at all about talking about the hobby, promoting it, showing stuff I'm working on, trying to get people into it, but something about the actual stores! It's the same with video games. I have no problem going into other niche stores of stuff I like. It might be a combination of a few things. One is that I'm used to GW stores being very small, and feeling the staff's eyes on me as I browse. Same for EB Games. I like browsing online because I can stare at something as long as I want. Then again, I'm very into rocks for example, and I have no problem going into a rock shop and staring at a shelf for 10 minutes.
I guess it's got to be a holdover from a time in childhood when I did feel ashamed, though I don't really remember ever feeling that ashamed. Something about the vibe of the stores has always given me a really awkward feeling. I think it's possible I could drop it in time. I've probably only gone into a gaming store a handful of times since I was a teenager.
I'm the same way, Coldgaming. We patronize a few different sex toy or kink stores/enterprises, and they are almost all really chill and easy to hang out in. (Except for Spanky's, which always feels strained.). Of all the FLGS's I've been in, BH is perhaps the least awkward, and five years ago that place was set up like a hoarding grandma's garage. I think it's fair to say I experience a constant low level shame the entire time that I'm there. But then, shame and I go way back.
I felt the same way when I got into 40k in 2010. I felt bad for spending cash on the hobby instead of the same amount of cash for video games or clothes. At one point I had a nice army with chapterhouse bits, sold it all as I felt like I was dabbling in some sort of taboo and embarassing behavior.
To add to the above point, and I will get some flak as I will sound like a total donkey-cave, here was my latest encounter of the hobby nerd kind. (I am so glad Dakka exists.)
Here is why. I feel as if going into the FLGS or GW is a exercise in cringe and restraint.
Not only does it embarass me and make me wish to buy online but, the stank, the excited chatter/nerd wails and staff hovering or grabing your models as you paint them is cringeworthly. (The last two infuriates me, the other examples are the cringe ones.)
I went to my favorite GW. All the above of course had to happen but, I hold this store to a higher standard as it is one of the best one globally besides the main one. I cringed three to four times involuntarily with my face (and internally,) as the customer across from me spoke. (I was there painting.) Half of it was in another language and I still could understand him, unfortunately. He kept complimenting his own greatness and painting level. (And used the peasant for one other persons painting levels, lol. )
Seeing people gift shopping come in and leave without anything after a cursory glance towards him made me feel ashamed. The thing is this guy wasn't particularly atriocious or awkard for our hobby. Just average. It felt like I was on the set of big bang.
(My anchor of reason during this day was one of the GW employees who kept me feeling sane as he acted normal, was also reserved, and had a civil discussion.)
Ironically, I feel like an outcast at these stores because I act reservedly (not yelling, I shower, dress nicely, have manners, and I don't flail about or get into stupid Jedi VS. Space Marine debates.) Everyone I know freaks out when they find out I have a hobby like this because it isn't something they would ever guess in a million years, unless they saw my workbench or my table of shame.
I feel like an ass for typing this out but, it just sorta came out.
I assure you the hobby guilt is quite mutual. My love for the concept of Space Marines eventually won out. (Though to be fair I do this just to have a small display piece. I don't wargame or collect armies. I just like assembling converted figures.)
I guess I am in this for the art and not the culture. Watching dakka Plogs and Warhammer 40,000 SM got me here, not dice. (Even those nice Dakka dice, mhmmm.)
I'm more ashamed about all of the unpainted miniatures I have lying in storage then people finding out I play Warmachine/40k. Most of my family hates my hobby thinking it's a waste of money. Nuts to them I say.
To answer properly, no I've got nothing to be ashamed of - and I don't find being in a GW an awkward experience at all. I go in and paint on my lunch breaks and chat with the staff, either about the hobby or other things.
The only awkward moments are when salty types come in (straight from an Internet forum no doubt) to spout complaints about GW and their business strategy to the poor part-timer.
I also play games in the store - occasionally people walking past come in to look or talk about it. If it's a cute girl I don't mind explaining :-p
Some of the regulars of my GW have their quirks, sure, but that's not always a bad thing - most are really nice people and fun to game with.
Lastly, I don't hide it from my colleagues - and they are in fact interested when I made it onto "What's New Today" with my Undead - or to see my models in person. For my birthday last year they all chipped in to get me £15 of GW vouchers :-)
I think how much you talk about it also affects the response you get. 'I enjoying painting small models that I occasionally use in a game' gets a very different reaction from giving a fifteen minute overview of your army, it's colour scheme, and how your converted captain was the eighteenth legionnaire through the walls of the imperial palace on Terra, and the first to kill a custodian, because he spent 23 hrs a day in the battlecages of the Shattered-Cleaver, a ship he was made captain of after his exemplary record of boarding missions during the war at calth...
I think, as with many topics (like your weekend) less is more when talking to people about it, unless they show genuine interest and are asking questions.
@bottle I used to have to deal with a lot of those 'salty' types. After a while, I noticed a pattern of three types. The bitter ex-employee (lots of them in Nottingham), the guy who applied but didn't get the job (and can't understand why because he knows everything about the hobby), or the guy that, for whatever reason, can't afford to be in the hobby anymore and blames price rises (something sad about a 35 year old man complaining that toy soldiers are ridiculously overpriced whilst rocking a pushchair back and forth). Next time you see someone moaning, entertain yourself by trying to work out which of the three they are. It'll always be one.
I'm as happy going into my flgs to buy stuff or play a game as I am going to the pub, football/rugby/American football with Mrs Deadnight (she's the sports geek!), or running a half or full marathon.
I find there is a lot more common ground with sports enthusiasts than most people realise.
Most folks are genuinely interested or curious.
I think the trick is to be willing and able to talk about it, but not to have it as your sole topic of conversation.
Not at all. Should I be ashamed of the cost? No way, I pay for it with the money I earn and that's nothing anybody else needs to be concerned with. What about the geekiness? Well, maybe some people will laugh at you, but now I write that I realise it's never happened to me. In my experience a lot of people, when they find out about it, are pretty curious abut it, and it seems that even people I'd never describe as "nerds" seem to like looking at and picking up the models. Many folks are particularly interested in the painting - I often hear things like "You paint all these yourself?" or "I'd never have the patience for that..."
I've not met all that many people outside gaming who have much of what you'd call a hobby, as in something they do seriously for the long term in their free time. Or maybe I have and they're the ones who don't talk about it. But it seems that if someone finds out you do have one, it doesn't matter much what it is, they often like to ask you about it.
About the price - not at all. That is, if it ever reaches the point, when a price can be named. I then actually enjoy the terror in their eyes when they hear about how much a Warlord costs.
About the hobby itself - yeah. When some1 asks, "what do you like doing", I usually reply "things, you know, this and that"
CragHack wrote: About the price - not at all. That is, if it ever reaches the point, when a price can be named. I then actually enjoy the terror in their eyes when they hear about how much a Warlord costs.
About the hobby itself - yeah. When some1 asks, "what do you like doing", I usually reply "things, you know, this and that"
Not ''things''. Its war gaming. A serious hobby (or addiction) most of the people are not aware of. Don't bother.
Heh, a lot of the married guys I know lie about how much they spend I do consider your question though sometimes but I traded a hobby costing $5 a week but trips/hotels 6-9 times a year for events (each one travel ticket, food, lodging, cover, and $100+ for booze easily), so wargaming isn't such a big shock when you think about it.
Plus, most of my gaming buddies are also wargamers so it's an understanding that to even play the game, let alone travel to and event for a couple days, it is just da%ned expensive but we love doing it. And yeah, someone mentioned fishing, a lot of other hobbies are pricy and can be a quick experience, whereas there's always something to be doing for this hobby, planning ahead, socializing and making new friends, and for many, regular turnover in armies or models even if some many never see the tabletop
i dont think ive ever been on the richer side of the wealth line, but i have loads and loads of Warhammer, 40k, flames of war and other table top games. i have multiple armies, and i cant even think of the number of the amount that all this costed! almost dont want to. but when i talk to people im not ashamed because any money i spend on my hobby i usually make from the hobby. Ever since i started playing 40k back when i was 9 My parents told me they would never buy anything 40k/ table top game related for me. Not because they didnt like it but because they felt that if they bought me 40k items and such i would never have anything else. they did the same for my brother and video games
Anyway ... at this time i didnt have a job and my only wy of getting money was recycling cans, so thats what i did. Bit eventually i got good at painting ( mainly high table top quality in vast ammounts) to the point where people would pay me to paint their armies when they had 200 ork boys to paint, or 300 skaven clan rats. i Once hammered out almost 200 clan rats in a single day! that was my market, people who didnt want to paint their horde armies.
so now a days i use any income from my painting abilities for 40k and any income from my real job for any real life necesities / comforts. for example girls. and on that topic. ive never been ashamed to tell girls abut what i do. Confidence is key gentlemen ! it also helps that i eat clean and eight lift 2-3 hours a day hahaha but honestly if a girl ask about my hobbies , i tell her that im very very nerdy, ( k ing of nerds) and they ask how and i say i like all the sci fi and fntasy movies plus i love board games ! like intense board games, / risk on steroids. I usually dont take it into detail to far because trying to explain the world of warhammer and 40k to someone who has never heard of table top gaming is ... hard and its not a good topic for a first/ initial dates haha
one more thing about this "expensive hobby"
i agree that its not really expensive at all. i tall depends on self control. two people can each spend 70$ on a box of models and some super glue and some painting stuff and a have a ton of fun with just that! . make some buildings out of some left over cardboard and a can of dollar spray paint and you got yourself a game of kill team!
and that could be it... and those models will never disappear, they will never be completely obsolete, ( hang tough sister of battle , you get a codex soon!) that 70$ could last you a year or two with you and your friend playing out different scenarios and missions, that is how i started.
How long does a viedo game last until its beaten or over played and no one plays it anymore. how much does it cost? how much does that controller, tv and game system cost?
how much does it cost to be a serious golfer, hunter, or play sports in a club. how much does it cost to pay a gym membership, or buy any supplements or food for that matter. how much do you spend on a date, or just going out to eat.
40k doesnt have to be expensive.
TheAuldGrump wrote: Hmmmm... I have run games at the mall, I have run games at Burger King, Wendy's, and Old Country Buffet.
I run a game at a local dry bar, and I used to run the game at a summer program for gifted youth.
Every year I run a game at a pagan retreat - in spite of being Unitarian, not pagan. (The Unitarian church helps run it... we play 'More Religiously Tolerant Than You' games. ) Where my good lady sat skyclad in my lap, in an attempt to seduce me (I just thought that she was a pagan being a pagan, and trying to freak the 'dane*).
Are you by chance perhaps in PA or VA? I keep seeing hints of people on these forums I might know, heh. The pagan retreat thing is why I ask
TheAuldGrump wrote: Hmmmm... I have run games at the mall, I have run games at Burger King, Wendy's, and Old Country Buffet.
I run a game at a local dry bar, and I used to run the game at a summer program for gifted youth.
Every year I run a game at a pagan retreat - in spite of being Unitarian, not pagan. (The Unitarian church helps run it... we play 'More Religiously Tolerant Than You' games. ) Where my good lady sat skyclad in my lap, in an attempt to seduce me (I just thought that she was a pagan being a pagan, and trying to freak the 'dane*).
Are you by chance perhaps in PA or VA? I keep seeing hints of people on these forums I might know, heh. The pagan retreat thing is why I ask
Nope - Portland, Maine - though the retreat is up near Rangely Lakes.
The retreat is currently reorganizing - and is now being co-run by a local Unitarian church. (The pagans were simply awful at bookkeeping - and the local U/U congregation gets along amazingly well with the pagans - this is not the only event that they help put on. Pagan women in relationships with Unitarian men is common enough for there to be a group - I'd call it a support group, but it is more of a mutual appreciation society... gods above and below, we U/U can be smug. )
I could tell when the U/U started helping - the e-mail for the business meeting was for a business meeting and potluck supper... Nothing says U/U like a potluck supper. I brought chicken salad.
CragHack wrote: About the price - not at all. That is, if it ever reaches the point, when a price can be named. I then actually enjoy the terror in their eyes when they hear about how much a Warlord costs.
About the hobby itself - yeah. When some1 asks, "what do you like doing", I usually reply "things, you know, this and that"
It's not any worse than authentic seats to restore a 1968 stingray or twinned 980Ti video cards to play an FPS at 4k. People who aren't into will think it's nuts
I describe the hobby as "miniatures and wargames" to people who aren't in the know. It's actually surprising to me how many people actually reply, "Oh, like Warhammer?" But I mean, miniatures aren't my only hobby.
Incidentally, there are very, very few women I've shown my miniature collection to who didn't spend a whole bunch of time looking through them. For all this being described as "male" hobby, tons of women from young to old who have zero interest in hobby think the minis very neat and take a lot of time looking at models. When my mom's friends (these are Chinese ladies in their 70's...) happen to be at my place, they even browse through them. Back in the day when I was dating, neutral, semi-interesting topics that the other person doesn't know a lot about were a great thing because it gives you an opportunity to ask and hopefully connect at different levels.
Really, even though we may think of wargaming as "nerdy", the miniatures are no different than any other form of art, IMO, and art is a LOT easier for people to relate to than other nerdy interests -- it's way weirder to talk to someone about than lambda expressions, or Azure role-based access control, or Call of Duty...
(incidentally, my wife is a beautiful woman who actually gets excited about Azure RBAC -- and she puts up with my obsession with miniatures, as I do her obsession with roosters -- which is why I will surely be with her forever )
hotsauceman1 wrote: And I have been thinking about this because I saw the build and paint kits and wondered if I should get the larger ones for my two nephews. But Do I want to get them into a hobby their family cannot afford.
Talking with their parent would be a good option to see if it would be manageable. You like the hobby and could tell them why you think it could be nice/good for your nephews and also explain how it can get a bit expensive in this initial rush of exploring all the new stuff if they are not careful. And like others have said it can be much cheaper if the minis don't have to be from GW.
I started ashamed, but now I talk about it. Its geeky and quirky, but by doing so, Ive gotten other folks hooked. Regarding OP, I know hotsauce is a 40k guy, but you could consider geting into bolt action, even starting with the little green men.
t's not any worse than authentic seats to restore a 1968 stingray or twinned 980Ti video cards to play an FPS at 4k. People who aren't into will think it's nuts
I think this has to do with a certain mentality. In this case, pimping your car would be seen as a manly and mature thing to do. Well, maybe not a stringray, because of economic reasons, but anyways. But if some1 ever brought that thing here, hands down he would only get respect, not matter how much it costed to do that.
Buying two 980's - a bit more tricky than cars, but still doable, because the mentality tells that if you buy such things - you must be cool, because you really know how all that stuff works inside.
it really doesnt matter as long as your taking care of whats important first, ive only ever been embarrassed for a couple of reasons: when i was younger(school age) i was in with the 'cool' kids and this kinda gak wouldnt stick so i dropped the modeling for a few years which is sad but true, now i have the confidence and have known my friends long enough to do what i like also as i grew up geeky hobbies like this and video games ect became socially exceptable. Going from a rich/upper middle family to dirt poor family do to illness also made its difference on spending and played into this as i started only really getting hand me downs and second hand (pre ebay) stuff. Next issue is one i think alot of hobbist do and it is a valid concern, with the price in mind, is once i had my own family life and money, me and my partner bought more than we could paint and use. Getting that into line is important as the potential entertainment value(even expensive GW kits) of /designing/building/converting/modelling/painting/playing is HUGE in comparison to say a the same value in movies or takeaway pizzas, pints down the pub or even most video games, so moderating consumption just like with anything is important and gives you the grounds to stand up to any preconceived embarrassment.
Never, quite the opposite. When I meet new people it's a funny and quirky thing to bring up. I'm surprised how accepting people are of it really. Deep down I think most men want to play with models and I think women like a man who is honest about what he's into. As long long as you don't talk about your hobby 24/7 I think you look pretty normal.
I have certainly known friends be ashamed of it. Personally I'm something of a forceful character, so I'm quite happy to talk about my hobbies (this also vies against my other money sink, tropical fishkeeping, which is also a very pricey, very involved hobby, and also surprisingly, a more argumentative and volatile community). My wife is very supportive and indulges a bit in both hobbies herself (owns a dominion fleet for ST:AW, nid army for 40k, also keeps angelfish tank).
I used to be ashamed of it. Well, not ashamed, more embarrassed. I'm not now, but I don't exactly flaunt it, but if it comes up or whatever I don't really care.
Bottle wrote: I'd only be ashamed if I had Mantic models in my collection.
If we're going to play THAT version of the shame game...
I'd be ashamed of putting down a bunch of slope-shouldered, beer-bellied GW drinking dwarves who are in no condition to do anything more strenuous than spending a night at the pub if I was confronted with an army of broad-shouldered, well-muscled Mantic FIGHTING dwarves...
Still wanna play?
EDIT: As far as being ashamed about how much you spend on your hobby, ask them how much they spend each year on alcohol and tobacco. I'd bet real money they spend more on their addictions than you do on yours.
I only hide it for practical reasons. Early on in dating there are a lot of assumptions about people with this hobby so I let them learn me FIRST, then introduce them relatively soon after(specifically with the ladies). Once they know I am socially competent than it is not a problem.
Other than that, no I don't really hide it. However I find that most of the time I dont bring it up mainly because I dont want to explain it to people that cant understand "You spent 50 on WHAT" "Yep, and I got 3-4 times the value that you did out of that 200 dollar purchase" "...whatever nerd"
Bottle wrote: I'd only be ashamed if I had Mantic models in my collection.
If we're going to play THAT version of the shame game...
I'd be ashamed of putting down a bunch of slope-shouldered, beer-bellied GW drinking dwarves who are in no condition to do anything more strenuous than spending a night at the pub if I was confronted with an army of broad-shouldered, well-muscled Mantic FIGHTING dwarves...
Still wanna play?
Although mantic dwarves might have broad shoulders, gw ones at least have arms...
Bottle wrote: I'd only be ashamed if I had Mantic models in my collection.
If we're going to play THAT version of the shame game...
I'd be ashamed of putting down a bunch of slope-shouldered, beer-bellied GW drinking dwarves who are in no condition to do anything more strenuous than spending a night at the pub if I was confronted with an army of broad-shouldered, well-muscled Mantic FIGHTING dwarves...
Still wanna play?
Although mantic dwarves might have broad shoulders, gw ones at least have arms...
Shoulders, arms, knees, and a belly to be proud of....
I have met retired weightlifters that had exactly those bellies....
Yeah that's the kit. Maybe been a bit harsh on the arm comment then. I remember building the standard guys with the shields and axes that just slot straight into the body with hardly any arm at all, which is where my comment was based. I got mine maybe a year or two ago. Wasn't impressed with the hybrid kits and wrote them off after finishing one unit. Those dwarves you posted prior look much better.
JamesY wrote: Yeah that's the kit. Maybe been a bit harsh on the arm comment then. I remember building the standard guys with the shields and axes that just slot straight into the body with hardly any arm at all, which is where my comment was based. I got mine maybe a year or two ago. Wasn't impressed with the hybrid kits and wrote them off after finishing one unit. Those dwarves you posted prior look much better.
Those dwarfs are all metal though - the hybrid kits... less impressive, but cheaper than an all metal kit.
I actually like Mantic dwarfs - and that they are not proportioned like humans. Ditto for their elves.
The only Mantic figures that I have been completely dissatisfied with were the infamous Men at Arms. (Which can be salvaged, but only by using bits from other companies....)
Back on topic - there are not many games that anyone should be ashamed of, even allowing for cost.
Aside from some Kingdom Death models, which you should never let your mother see....
Septimus Severus wrote: Mother and I are pretty poor but we're both quite mad* (very good friends, or, without anything sinister, an old married couple -- I have something of my mother and auntie's sharp mind, a shared love of history and a fondness for sing-songs inherited from my grandmother, a lovely lady), so she doesn't mind the oddness. I do hide the painting experiments as she's fairly houseproud and the cost bothers me a little. Luckily Inquisitor/Inq28 is a small scale thing and I spend most of my time designing oddities on scrap paper.
* As an aside -- to the tune of Two Lovely Black Eyes. A family joke that might cheer someone up.
Ode to Septimus' Severus' Latest Prescription from the Loony-Doctor:
Three lovely pink pills,
My heart how it thrills!
What does it matter I'm mad as a hatter,
I've three lovely pink pills.
Not because of how expensive it was, but because during the 1980s being into "Nerdy" things was still extraordinarily uncool.
And NONE of my Punk/Deathrock/Goth friends even knew about gaming.
It was seen as something that spotty little boys with no girlfriends did.
But in the late-80s I had quite a name, even among the various music subcultures, in the gaming industry.
But nearly dying in 1991 ended that, as I stayed "mostly-dead" for nearly 10 years.
And my name did not survive among any but a few game company owners. Although I still hear a poster of me graces the walls of Iron Wind (Previously Ral Partha) from when I met the owners of Ral Partha in the mid-80s (and left one hell of an impression, apparently).
Yeah, I'm also a product of the eighties, so maybe I've internalized the shame from that. Either way, I keep my gaming life and my celebrity life well separate. I wouldn't want the other ex SEALs tearing my poster down at the law firm.
I started my hobby in 4th grade, I am 29 now. Everything back then was pewter (at least to my exposure) and living in Poland it was an expensive hobby.
I was fortunate enough to live in a town where there were about 2 stores that had tables/setups with products and boy was I mesmerized.
I collected space wolves and I still remember the 1st box of devastators my mom got me, it was amazing. I also remember when my dad told me straight up he didn't have the money to buy me a codex but he did it anyway, that's a moment I will never forget!
So here I am with a grown up job and I can't say that I blow money away, but YES , I do tell my significant other 'this costs normally $XX from GW, but I got it for $YY!'
I agree with others that gave reasons behind it being expensive as you make it. Play with as little models as you want, it is entirely up to you as the gamer and the person who sets an example for the hobby, make it a good one !
I have far more things worth being ashamed of than Playing TT games. It's not that big of a deal. As long as you're being responsible and not using Adulting money as Fun money, it doesn't really matter. I will say to keep my hobbies afloat, I've cut drinking down to about 5-6 drinks a year and I've avoided stuff like Smoking, Gambling and Vaping like the plague. Not because it's bad, but because every pack of Cigs, bottle of juice, or scratch off/trip to the casino can be better used on stuff I was to buy like new models or EVA foam.
You gotta be you. Everyone has fun doing different things and as long as you're not living on Beans and Beef Broth for the next month because you had to buy a Titan or living by candle light and washing yourself in the neighbor's pool because you needed two of each Imperial Knight more than keeping water and electricity on in your house, it doesn't really matter what YOU decide to spend your hobby cash on.
I am actually quite proud of my hobby. It makes me feel very creative and artistic to be able to apply a good paint scheme to a miniature that measures barely 2 inches tall. Would I proclaim it as my number one hobby to a prospective date? Probably not. But I might coyly explain that it's my "nerdy hobby" and then bedazzle them with my painting prowess via my blog.
When the cost comes up... yeah it can be expensive, if you let it be. The trick is to have good impulse control. Going into a store for a pot of paint you needed and coming out with a new box to assemble just seems like something everybody has to do at some point... but it's not something you need to do every time you go in. When I compare that 3 dollar pot of paint that I buy maybe once a month, and a 30-60 dollar kit I buy every few months, to say... alcohol or cigarettes, and my per month cost is pretty damn low. That, and the only thing I kill by my excessive painting is my eyesight, rather than my body or braincells like with the other less healthy addictions. So I figure I am coming out ahead.
I am a dad on a budget. I very rarely get to splurge on the newest kit. The combined value of all my armies probably wouldn't even amount to a thousand dollars retail... I use a lot of ebay models and starter set units mixed in with creative modeling in the form of papercraft rhinos and land raiders... so I don't feel like this hobby is any more expensive than others out there. Consider that a single current gen console would run me about the same... minus games to play. If I look at the hobby purely on the merits of dollars spent compared to hours filled... I'd say the hundreds of hours I spend playing, painting, and modeling has been well worth the cost.
The biggest thing I am ashamed or try to hide is the amount of unpainted or unfinished projects I have lying around.
Financial embarrassment, caused by other people knowing? No. I do not hang around with the kinds of people who would care how others spend their money. None of us are rich, but we understand the need to play, create and feel human through having nice things.
Guilt in myself? That's a battle for anyone with low income. A while back I had to separate my hobby money and my rent/food/bills money.
Sell a kit: Hobby money. Stay within that budget.
Wages: Survival money. No touching. And in eight years of renting, I've been on time to the hour each month.
But sometimes I get home, realise how tired and hungry I am, look at my (second hand) 40K army and want to kick the table over. Just a little. Just some days.
I'm proud of my plastic crack habit. Apart from the occasional cigar, I don't smoke, apart from the occasional drinking session to try and forget my existence, I don't drink either. Some people play golf and spend hundreds of pounds a year on memberships alone, I play with toys.
Buttery Commissar wrote: ...I gotta say that I genuinely don't understand hiding your financial investment in a hobby from someone who's seen you naked, though.
The last social barrier is no longer using the toilet while the wife is in the shower. It's admitting what that Forgeworld order actually cost.
First up, buying wargaming stuff isn't an investment, its the very definition of s diminishing return.
I had to tell my Mrs I had won a raffle a few years ago when I spent nearly £600 at the FW booth at Salute (on top of the normal rucksack of stuff).
She just about accepted that............The next year she found it somewhat more dubious.
There are times when my good lady tries my patience.
I am being literal, there - she is trying to see how I react to things, even years into the relationship.
Right now, there is a box sitting on the table - wrapped in pink paper, with red hearts... and labeled 'do not open until Valentines Day'.
I was scared to even touch it, lest I guess what is inside.
Then it turned out that my guessing was the point of the box (that and teasing me).
So, I picked it up and shook it... twice.
And was able to tell her what it was, where she ordered it, and what week she sent in her order.
Shaking it told me that there were plastic sprues inside, and the size of the box was identical to the Mantic Abyssal army that she got us for Christmas.
Mantic has a yearly Crazy Box, so that made it likely to be a Crazy Box....
As to the week... she ordered it the first week of January - I know, because the one that I ordered for her in the second week of January has not yet arrived....
Does this sound like a person to hide my hobby from? (Great minds think alike - we think alike, so it is obvious that we both have great minds! )
So... it is likely that come St. Valentine's Day, we will be trading little bits of plastic and resin with each other.
Be ashamed if you'r neglecting a more important thing in order to buy models, your mortgage/rent, your kids, your wife etc.
Other than that no, spend your money as you please, there are far worse things you could be doing with it.
I've never hidden my hobby from anyone and I'm certainly not ashamed of what I do, but I definitely characterize it differently depending on who I talk to. To explain, let me present a scenario.
I'm at work. Person #1, who has never read a comic book in her life, asks if I liked the Avengers movie. My response will be "Sure, it had a lot of action and the outfits were kind of corny, but fun." If Person #2, who has a Batman logo computer background asks the same questions, I'm going to say "Totally. I dig what they're doing with Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet storyline. I can't wait to see those movies three years from now."
You have to consider the audience.
To my "nerd aware" friends, I play Warhammer 40k and have several painted armies. To my "non-nerd aware" friends, I belong to a community of painters who get together sometimes to paint in groups and at other times to play "one of those complicated board games". If they ask to see something I've painted, I'll pick one of my better results and show them. I'll usually show them something fancy like a named character in a dynamic pose. I don't mention the "Relic Blade" or the "Jump Pack". I mention how hard it is to get the blues just right, but that patience is a virtue! I've never had anyone turn their nose up.
In terms of personal life, my wife likes board games like Zombicide, but has no interest in a 40k style game. She doesn't like the models, the painting, etc. She likes to see what I've painted, but really has no knowledge of any of the factions, etc. Having said all that, she supports this hobby completely. I don't think she fully understands why I like it, but it's relatively cheap PER HOUR compared to most other forms of entertainment and is good, honest work. I could be drinking my money or throwing it at girls at a gentleman's club. I'm not. I'm working with my hands, using my mind and socializing with a wide variety of people. Everyone should have something in their life that achieves this.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Financial embarrassment, caused by other people knowing? No. I do not hang around with the kinds of people who would care how others spend their money. None of us are rich, but we understand the need to play, create and feel human through having nice things.
Guilt in myself? That's a battle for anyone with low income. A while back I had to separate my hobby money and my rent/food/bills money.
Sell a kit: Hobby money. Stay within that budget.
Wages: Survival money. No touching. And in eight years of renting, I've been on time to the hour each month.
But sometimes I get home, realise how tired and hungry I am, look at my (second hand) 40K army and want to kick the table over. Just a little. Just some days.
Firstly, maybe you would be able to stretch your food money further if you didn't lather yourself in butter.
Second, your second hand 40k army isn't a waste of money. Think of it as frozen asset (like a house). If things ever get too bad you can sell it for around the same price as what you paid for it (seeing as it was second hand to begin with and hey, 40k hasn't been AoSed yet). If anything, looking at the typical state of second hand models being sold, you'll probably have added value to the army and make a tidy profit, even accounting for paint/hobby expenses!
I am cautious about bringing it up.
Once I am able to show some painted up stuff (a few good pieces not a bunch) people can at least appreciate it.
You show a couple hundred painted up and they back away slowly and run for it.
I commonly do not keep price tags on models so price rarely is brought up.
I discuss "disposable income" with my wife and as long as I keep to budget, we are good.
If I happen to sell finished stuff or my services on occasion, so much the better.
I get more comments about the gaming man cave now that a "significant" amount of the basement has been cordoned off.
Considering how much we save by me developing "handy man" skills in being able to build and fix stuff, that is even less of an issue.
I build nice looking stuff because my gaming / modeling hobby helped me want to develop the skills.
When I point to the tiny men leading me to doing carpentry, plumbing and electrical work: there is little to be ashamed of.
We build stuff, we actively participate in a hobby not passively take it in.
I do get irritated when a guy may scoff at the "playing with toys" when they only have some hockey pool thing they participate in.
eosgreen wrote: thought for SURE this was a males shame over girls finding out about it. i never consider something i buy shameful. That is I don't buy things that are actually shameful like alcohol and cigarettes.
You could not of put this any better. My friends and I get quite a bit of stick at school for what we do, however we enjoy what we do and we are quite open about it. There is no point in trying to hide your hobby - be proud of what you do, because it is your interests, not anyone else's. As for price, there are many different ways you can lower the price, and if you take your time when painting, and you are a semi busy person, then one kit can last you a month or more, that's less then a £1 a day - a lot less than alcohol and cigarettes etc.
Try and get your nephews involved - more people to play with, and I'm sure they will love it, while it doesn't have to be too hard on their pockets - Ebay exists, remember, as does the swap shop on this forum, second hand miniatures are very cheap, and easy to fix up.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Financial embarrassment, caused by other people knowing? No. I do not hang around with the kinds of people who would care how others spend their money. None of us are rich, but we understand the need to play, create and feel human through having nice things.
Guilt in myself? That's a battle for anyone with low income. A while back I had to separate my hobby money and my rent/food/bills money.
Sell a kit: Hobby money. Stay within that budget.
Wages: Survival money. No touching. And in eight years of renting, I've been on time to the hour each month.
But sometimes I get home, realise how tired and hungry I am, look at my (second hand) 40K army and want to kick the table over. Just a little. Just some days.
Firstly, maybe you would be able to stretch your food money further if you didn't lather yourself in butter.
Second, your second hand 40k army isn't a waste of money. Think of it as frozen asset (like a house). If things ever get too bad you can sell it for around the same price as what you paid for it (seeing as it was second hand to begin with and hey, 40k hasn't been AoSed yet). If anything, looking at the typical state of second hand models being sold, you'll probably have added value to the army and make a tidy profit, even accounting for paint/hobby expenses!
Body butter come under "hobby".
Jokes aside, one half of my army is worth nothing (Mordians), which I know because I paid nothing. The other half is irreplaceable, financially and sentimentally.
Buttery Commissar wrote: ...I gotta say that I genuinely don't understand hiding your financial investment in a hobby from someone who's seen you naked, though.
The last social barrier is no longer using the toilet while the wife is in the shower. It's admitting what that Forgeworld order actually cost.
First up, buying wargaming stuff isn't an investment, its the very definition of s diminishing return.
I had to tell my Mrs I had won a raffle a few years ago when I spent nearly £600 at the FW booth at Salute (on top of the normal rucksack of stuff).
She just about accepted that............The next year she found it somewhat more dubious.
I would say this is absolutely correct, but about the wrong thing (diminishing return).
Gaming ISN'T an "investment."
But it is something you do because you ENJOY it.
So, if people drink expensive whiskey or wine (which is forever gone after it is consumed), or they buy cat figurines (which aren't likely to be "valuable," but they just like cats), or if people like going out to see movies a lot (such as foreign films, art films, as well as major studio releases), or if they play golf, tennis, or rugby, then that isn't much different from a person buying things that have to do with "games" because they enjoy them.
It certainly isn't an investment (but could be, depending upon the object). But not everything in life needs be done in order to "Profit" from it monetarily.
While gaming isn't an investment... It can be a self-sustaining hobby. It makes it a much different situation when you have someone who is flushing 10-20k$ a year down the plasticgods toilet, and someone who is generating income to mitigate or augment the flushing... One is a red-flag which could almost be collector hoarder territory which SHOULD be an issue, and others may not be.
Examples:
*I know fpeople who were hardcore 40k tourney-goers who would buy a brand new army, paint it up, play it then sell it for equal or more than they bought it for every 6 months. That is self-sustaining, and not a 'debt-sentence'
*I know KS gamblers who buy 2 of every pledge to have pledge 2 pay for pledge 1 so they basically get stuff for free. On the back end, if the game sucks, they unload it to minimize loss. They enjoy playing the game of economy, and have a wall of boxed games and plastic minis which they are not going broke on.
I personally painted my way through college wargaming so I could play 40k without going broke. Now I have disposable income, but even now, I sell painted models, sculpts and other stuff to cover my hobby costs so it is a minimal drain.
When people, (women who I am dating in particular) see the room, they immediately see someone who is bad with money and a financial burden. The second they realize it is not a financial burden, it becomes almost a non-issue. I have a room in my basement and it doesn't clutter the house, it doesn't break my bank, I am not neglecting my responsibilities for plastic crack. Life moves on.
We used to spend A Lot on booze like every night and then graduated from spinning money into urine to spinning money into plastic and occasionally resin. That's evolution.
...this somehow ties into the discussion above but its late and the iPad is lagging. No shame in spending money on what you like. Despite some forum and Internet rage, the hobby is supposed to be fun and bring you some inkling of joy.
VeteranNoob wrote: We used to spend A Lot on booze like every night and then graduated from spinning money into urine to spinning money into plastic and occasionally resin. That's evolution.
...this somehow ties into the discussion above but its late and the iPad is lagging. No shame in spending money on what you like. Despite some forum and Internet rage, the hobby is supposed to be fun and bring you some inkling of joy.
I'm a student and I happen to be broke now and then. Warhammer does not help, but that's ok, I go without a few nicer things to have models to work on (I tend to do more scratch build terrain than models though).
I do feel bad when my friends buy me things (like beer or a nice meal) that I could have bought myself, but chose to get a kit instead. I usually ay why I'm broke so that they know though.
Beyond that, most people have a hobby/habit of their own that they spend money on, so just point that out and they leave it be. "This is what I do with the money don't spend on cigarettes" works nicely.
I'm not ashamed about buying/painting/playing Warhammer, but I don't advertise it to people I meet. My wife will bring it up at parties from time to time, and it's really fun and weird to try and explain the hobby to people. I just don't blather on and on about it, unless I'm talking to a fellow hobbyist.
One funny note, I converted a Yamaha motorcycle into an Ork warbike. Most people think it's just Mad Max, so it's usually not associated with 40k. After riding it to several bike nights however, I learned there is a quite alarming amount of cross-over between Motorcycle Clubs and wargaming!
You haven't really lived until you played a game of 40k on a pool table with beer cans and liquor bottles for terrain while 15 or so drunk bikers are giving running commentary on the match. (I of course brought my bike-heavy cult of speed, they about died to see my mini's painted the same way as my RL bike.) Being able to share that story at parties made all the years spent painting and all the money spent totally worth it.
Growing up I played with miniatures courtesy of my dad, during my time in school (formative and then the annoying high school) I had become a GW follower and was commonly found with a White Dwarf in hand.
People talked gak, sure, because kids are donkey-caves, but I never cared. Any significant (or in some cases, lesser) others that I've taken up with eventually find out and are either indifferent or impressed (with the patience I display in taking up such a tedious hobby).
Never be ashamed of your hobby, especially this one - remember, not only does it show that you can pay attention to detail, you're artistic, AND rich (or destitute, as this hobby tends to make one).
Never, at least when it comes to the cost. I won't bring up the price, but if it's brought up, I tell it like it is: It's about the same as most other hobbies (read: high entry, then 50-60 a month there after)
The only thing I "hide" is the fact that at it's core, warhammer is seen as "plastic army men", so I kinda down play it as plastic soldiers, but social and with painting to friends and family.
But it could be because I feel so much of it in my life in general and its just spilled on to my hobby as well.
Really it is a fight... a fething battle... to remind myself that I somehow 'enjoy' this hobby.
But you know what ... that's the hobby in general...
As far as being ashamed due to cost... well... yeah I'm ashamed... especially when I can count the numerous times I've let the hobby disrupt my finances to the point where I've been late for rent before because I've let spending get out of hand and didn't stick to my budget/plan (in fact I'm about to be late for rent for the second time in my experience of renting... so late that it may lead to a court date... and yes it is because of the poor way I handled my spending and finances recently).
I just wish my hubby was as interested in the hobby as I was. He's a gamer too, always has been, but not into the creative, modeling aspect much =/
of course I kinda half way worry if something happened he'd sell my models for what I said I paid for them
On the other hand, he always looks to see what I'm doing and appreciates what I've painted, so you know there's that. Plus I think we're both a bit long in the tooth now to worry about what others think of our hobbies as well.
Me and my brother are not ashamed about cost of our hobby. We have very religious relatives which thinks about it very badly. They say that we spend our time without avail and have that ugly demonic creatures in our shelves.
We like zombies, but we think about it in some another way then that people. For more sensitive friends and parents we try to cultivate modern wars with ordinary guys.
But not entirely for economical reasons, although I VERY rarely tell people how much my latest FW order cost, for example, despite my salary allowing a solid shipment every month. It's more of a social reason, since Warhammer is pretty unknown in my country, unless they have a family member that dabbles in it. Though I think that me being ashamed of it is pretty unjustified, since I've practically never heard anything engative being said about it. Heck, I work in the Air Force, and I keep a good collection of my 40k stuff in my dorm on the base, and most people that come in are just interested in what it exactly is. They're even more acceptive and genuinely interested than anyone from school that found out about it. I try to keep it lowkey though. I'd rather have people not knowing than being aware of my hobby, but that's just something I got in my head for no real reason.
I'm not ashamed of my hobby at all. If someone is the type of person who would give me gak for it then they're probably not the kind of person that I would want to associate with anyway. For me gaming is a release from the stress of college. I get home after a long day and I just look at models and occasionally build and paint some. I have no reason to hide it.
First up, buying wargaming stuff isn't an investment, its the very definition of s diminishing return.
I had to tell my Mrs
Not necessarily. I have sold a few armies and models for more than I paid for them. I raised the money for our deposit buying badly listed models on ebay, restoring them and reselling. I've also been that guy that buys limited edition items and resold at a healthy personal profit, I funded my hobby during my teacher training thanks to the end times. I'm still sat on a few select items that I'm happily watching the value increase on. If you want to make money from the hobby, it is doable.
First up, buying wargaming stuff isn't an investment, its the very definition of s diminishing return.
I had to tell my Mrs
Not necessarily. I have sold a few armies and models for more than I paid for them. I raised the money for our deposit buying badly listed models on ebay, restoring them and reselling. I've also been that guy that buys limited edition items and resold at a healthy personal profit, I funded my hobby during my teacher training thanks to the end times. I'm still sat on a few select items that I'm happily watching the value increase on. If you want to make money from the hobby, it is doable.
that's by far the exception, and not the rule. For most hobbyist, their personal use items only depreciate, especially given the massive transaction costs (shipping, eBay, and paypal's cut).
First up, buying wargaming stuff isn't an investment, its the very definition of s diminishing return.
I had to tell my Mrs
Not necessarily. I have sold a few armies and models for more than I paid for them. I raised the money for our deposit buying badly listed models on ebay, restoring them and reselling. I've also been that guy that buys limited edition items and resold at a healthy personal profit, I funded my hobby during my teacher training thanks to the end times. I'm still sat on a few select items that I'm happily watching the value increase on. If you want to make money from the hobby, it is doable.
that's by far the exception, and not the rule. For most hobbyist, their personal use items only depreciate, especially given the massive transaction costs (shipping, eBay, and paypal's cut).
I never meant to suggest that it was the rule, I was just pointing out that it isn't 'the very definition of a diminishing return' as you can make money from it.
I used to be very ashamed to admit I was into tabletop war gaming and RPG's, but one day it occurred to me that I was utterly ok with being open about being a skydiver and BASE jumper. Gaming only ever cost me money (and only a fraction of what I've spent on jumping), and it's never sent me to the ER or put me at serious risk of death. So, I decided if I was embracing that, it was silly to not embrace the other aspects of my life. So now I work hard to be open about it and embrace my geekdom.
I'm not ashamed of it at all. I don't see it as anything to be ashamed of, in a age where people spend the same amount of money on ridiculous shoes, expensive sports and a new smartphone every 6 months.
It's a creative, tactical and fulfilling hobby that let's me forget the escapades of a world turning faster and faster, all the while I let out my inner geek. I get to create something out of grey plastic that comes to life, with nothing but my imagination to guide me.
Anyone who cannot understand such a hobby and what it gives the person in terms of fulfillment and joy it a very narrow-minded individual as I see it.
First up, buying wargaming stuff isn't an investment, its the very definition of s diminishing return.
I had to tell my Mrs
Not necessarily. I have sold a few armies and models for more than I paid for them. I raised the money for our deposit buying badly listed models on ebay, restoring them and reselling. I've also been that guy that buys limited edition items and resold at a healthy personal profit, I funded my hobby during my teacher training thanks to the end times. I'm still sat on a few select items that I'm happily watching the value increase on. If you want to make money from the hobby, it is doable.
that's by far the exception, and not the rule. For most hobbyist, their personal use items only depreciate, especially given the massive transaction costs (shipping, eBay, and paypal's cut).
I never meant to suggest that it was the rule, I was just pointing out that it isn't 'the very definition of a diminishing return' as you can make money from it.
I still stand by it. Your examples are more about taking advantage of the foolishness of others. That and the huge amount of spare time a teacher has (the Mrs is one), but that's another story.
But as a general rule if you buy gaming products new they depreciate upon purchase. You take them off the sprue, the depreciate a bit more. Glue them together and again they devalue a little. The more effort that goes into them the more likely you are to get less back. Paint them and it's anyones guess!
First up, buying wargaming stuff isn't an investment, its the very definition of s diminishing return.
I had to tell my Mrs
Not necessarily. I have sold a few armies and models for more than I paid for them. I raised the money for our deposit buying badly listed models on ebay, restoring them and reselling. I've also been that guy that buys limited edition items and resold at a healthy personal profit, I funded my hobby during my teacher training thanks to the end times. I'm still sat on a few select items that I'm happily watching the value increase on. If you want to make money from the hobby, it is doable.
that's by far the exception, and not the rule. For most hobbyist, their personal use items only depreciate, especially given the massive transaction costs (shipping, eBay, and paypal's cut).
I never meant to suggest that it was the rule, I was just pointing out that it isn't 'the very definition of a diminishing return' as you can make money from it.
I still stand by it. Your examples are more about taking advantage of the foolishness of others. That and the huge amount of spare time a teacher has (the Mrs is one), but that's another story.
But as a general rule if you buy gaming products new they depreciate upon purchase. You take them off the sprue, the depreciate a bit more. Glue them together and again they devalue a little. The more effort that goes into them the more likely you are to get less back. Paint them and it's anyones guess!
One example is, admittedly taking advantage of timings, and people missing out at the time the product went live. If you are a good painter, you can reasonably expect to sell it for at least what you paid, meaning that you have had the benefit of using it for at most the cost of the time you spent on it. With the amount of spares on modern kits, you can resell spares to reduce the upfront cost of the box. Just to be clear, I really am not saying that this is true or practiced by most hobbyists, I'm just saying that it is possible to invest in items with the intention and ability to profit from them. It does take a lot of time though. Time that I (much like your missus, I'm sure) don't want to spend on marginal gains.
More shamed of the massive amounts of space my unplayed board games/unpainted miniatures have taken up than anything.
I don't broadcast any of my hobbies, from tournament level paintball to amateur beer sommelier. Not because of shame, but rather because none of my hobbies defines me as a person.
If folks express interest, I'll expand on my interests, but I've an awful habit of being far more interested in almost everything than most people are in almost anything.
Around the Secondary/College era I was embarrassed to tell anybody, due to me trying to keep a high profile of myself at the time. Not kidding here, but the only people who knew about my hobby was my best mate, and my cousin (who is basically a best mate relative).
What's more shameful is that I followed stuff I wasn't even into that much just to keep this "high profile". I knew about professional football and talked about it often, but really all I wanted to do was talk about how awesome that one fight from Dragon Ball Z was.
This is why I now don't care if others find out, and if they want to talk about it then sure, ill share my thoughts.
Nomeny wrote: I'm not ashamed of my hobby, but I am frequently ashamed that I share an association with some of my fellow hobbyists.
So much this, and not just the stereotypical "hygiene is something that happens to other people" (though that's certainly too common). It's also some of the just...obnoxious people who seem to believe they have uncovered the One True Hobby Path and are just jerks to people who don't do things the way they do them. Now, there's certainly room in the hobby for spirited discussion on the merits of given units/cards/tactics and how to maximize what one is doing, but there's a line that so many people seem completely oblivious to wherein it's no longer about helping someone out as telling them that they are guilty of the heinous crime of "wrongfun."
As a few examples, people who like playing with card sleeves on their stuff; I am one of these people for many games because the cards aren't cheap and I've had cats throw up on enough things to value the protection they provide. I would not insist that someone else do the same, but have certainly seen people do that. Rivet counters who throw hissy-fits that a model was assembled "wrong" and make a person who put a lot of enthusiasm into an otherwise well-done project feel like crap because they put the wrong detail on the model for the period. Someone who commits the ultimate crime of putting a sub-optimal unit on the table for the inexcusable reason of "I like the unit" getting lectured about points efficiency and competitive play. So forth and so on I see repeated at gaming venues in a variety of different formats.
It's so pervasive that it has leaked into the general perception of the hobby. I had a friend pick up one of my X-Wing ships and zoom around with it going "pew! pew!" before she put it back down going "Sorry...I didn't mean to misuse your model." I just looked at her and said "They're toys...for fun. You did exactly what you're supposed to do with it and enjoyed it."
So yeah, no real shame in the hobby of gaming due to the costs, but the people make me reluctant to bring others into it. Going back to the OP, I wouldn't stress too much about getting kids in a less well-off family into the hobby as a whole (though maybe not the GW variant of it). After all, if we didn't have hobbies we could take much easier and lower-paying jobs. Wanting to buy more plasticrack could very easily be the carrot that helps them be more successful in their adult lives.
Nomeny wrote: I'm not ashamed of my hobby, but I am frequently ashamed that I share an association with some of my fellow hobbyists.
Spoiler:
So much this, and not just the stereotypical "hygiene is something that happens to other people" (though that's certainly too common). It's also some of the just...obnoxious people who seem to believe they have uncovered the One True Hobby Path and are just jerks to people who don't do things the way they do them. Now, there's certainly room in the hobby for spirited discussion on the merits of given units/cards/tactics and how to maximize what one is doing, but there's a line that so many people seem completely oblivious to wherein it's no longer about helping someone out as telling them that they are guilty of the heinous crime of "wrongfun."
As a few examples, people who like playing with card sleeves on their stuff; I am one of these people for many games because the cards aren't cheap and I've had cats throw up on enough things to value the protection they provide. I would not insist that someone else do the same, but have certainly seen people do that. Rivet counters who throw hissy-fits that a model was assembled "wrong" and make a person who put a lot of enthusiasm into an otherwise well-done project feel like crap because they put the wrong detail on the model for the period. Someone who commits the ultimate crime of putting a sub-optimal unit on the table for the inexcusable reason of "I like the unit" getting lectured about points efficiency and competitive play. So forth and so on I see repeated at gaming venues in a variety of different formats.
It's so pervasive that it has leaked into the general perception of the hobby. I had a friend pick up one of my X-Wing ships and zoom around with it going "pew! pew!" before she put it back down going "Sorry...I didn't mean to misuse your model." I just looked at her and said "They're toys...for fun. You did exactly what you're supposed to do with it and enjoyed it."
So yeah, no real shame in the hobby of gaming due to the costs, but the people make me reluctant to bring others into it. Going back to the OP, I wouldn't stress too much about getting kids in a less well-off family into the hobby as a whole (though maybe not the GW variant of it). After all, if we didn't have hobbies we could take much easier and lower-paying jobs. Wanting to buy more plasticrack could very easily be the carrot that helps them be more successful in their adult lives.
I use anything as proxy for my 40k armies and made some "unorthodox" armies to say the least The people i met who had a hissyfit of what i used or my conversions, is just hilarious. "You can't do that!" , but i did I just feed on their despair i sometimes also do not agree with conversion or fluff idea's but it is their stuff, and they can so with it what they want (Except my little pony marines! )
Some posts here unfortunately hit too close to home. I'm more inured to lack of social skills and to a lesser extent hygiene (to a point), but I've only really gotten truly embarrassed by fellow gamers online. Keyboard Kommandoes, I call them. I'm sure you've seen their like.
I stay away from comments on, pretty much everything, because I find them unproductive, somehow at some point not too far down the line it breaks from the topic and just becomes some racist or intolerant or ignorant comment and I know that's coming. But at the end of my 7th week of gaming forum adventures I elected to come into 5-6 of these forums knowing what I would see but wanted to give it a try and it honestly has gotten way better than my previous impressions. Maybe because Warseer is now gone for 9 days and who knows, but the daily dose of mindless hate has gone way down.
I'm embarrassed to have, especially new gamers, new blood into the hobby, asking for help or expressing their interest into a hobby we need and we sorta asked for so we can keep playing these games, and to have them be discouraged or turned off by the very slim margin that is these keyboard kommandoes. When you don't have to see someone physically in front of you it's a bit different Often we have to make the conscious effort to steer them away from some forums and FB groups and even some fellow hobbyists to not scare them off. Hopefully this continues to be less and less. It's not only GW stuff, where the online community seems to hate yet continue to buy and play, with a unique fury; they also have venom for other games and even people. Whatever. But thanks for sharing all these posts, it's insightful
I think a lot of the toxicity is just online forums, not just wargamers.
I must say though for a good three or four years I would only post in the painting and modeling sections of DAKKA and Warseer because I just liked the hobby more by NOT reading the general boards. It wasn't until AoS that I started posting back in general, but I think that's coming to a close as I no longer have a dog in the hunt. (not to mention it's become quite circular!)
pox wrote: I think a lot of the toxicity is just online forums, not just wargamers.
I must say though for a good three or four years I would only post in the painting and modeling sections of DAKKA and Warseer because I just liked the hobby more by NOT reading the general boards. It wasn't until AoS that I started posting back in general, but I think that's coming to a close as I no longer have a dog in the hunt. (not to mention it's become quite circular!)
Yeah, I've been told video gamers are bad, too. So a con of the online communities is this toxicity. But there are still enough pros otherwise we wouldn't be here
I have "The Box of Shame" but that just refers to the hideous amount of stuff I have to paint and assemble
From a financial point of view, I don't feel much shame as I don't spend a massive amount on minis in the grand scheme of things. I've got enough to keep me going for now.
In terms of whether I feel shame about being into it, no again. Not now anyway. I'm 32 so I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. I read comics, love sci-fi and fantasy and video games so my love of the hobby is for me an extension of that.
That said I'm fairly...I don't know how to phrase this right so bear with me, mainstream in my tastes in other things. So this isn't my only hobby by a long shot, that said even if it was I doubt I'd care.
I'm not part of any modelling or gaming community locally though, I imagine some of the shame/frustrations detailed previously in here might affect me then.
I painted with my dorm door open in college. The girls across the hall were often over, watching me paint, excited at how I could paint such a small model with such detail. It's all about the art aspect. And I've also used the "more advanced RISK" when describing it.
I'm more ashamed of the mass amounts of grey sitting in a box that nobody except me knows about that may never get built than I am about people knowing that I paint and play.
I'm not ashamed of my hobby, although I don't go out of my way to tell people about it. There is one situation I would feel sort of ashamed though, and that is if my oldest friends, the ones I played Warhammer with when I was 12, found out that I had started again. It's so heavily associated with our childhood that it would feel like telling them I have started buying Turtles action figures or Pogs again at 30 years old Other than that I really don't care, I'll happily show new aquiantances my models when they visit.
It's funny, my parents roll their eyes at the hobby, but when we've got guests over they show off my "junk" with pride and always point out that "the lad built and painted it all by himself"
This is my shed. Into this shed goes the remnants of hobbies past, and of games no longer played that I still like models for but cannot find opponents to play it with.
Inside the house I have the cupboard of shame. No glass doors to show off the mandollies. Just plain wooden doors.
They aren't hidden out of shame - I just don't feel the need to display them. The same with the box of old gaming trophies from cons past (in the shed).
Sometimes I am ashamed of my "investments" of my time and money. I work part time for minimum wage and go to school so I have very little of both. I keep money in the bank, so I'm never that worried about how much I spend (okay maybe recently I have been. damn those awesome kickstarters!) but when a weekend passes without me accomplishing anything hobby-wise or school-wise due to exhaustion/burnout and other time commitments, it takes a pretty heavy toll on me and i end up kicking myself for the rest of the week.
My parents really do try to understand this weird obsession. My father was actually the one that convinced ME to start playing X-Wing. They know this hobby is constructive and that it's better for me to get out and socialize at Tabletop Game Club Night or D&D club and to build and paint things in my spare time instead of drinking and doing drugs. But I'm still living with them and it's impossible to hide all the boxes getting delivered. I get frequent reminders to "not spend too much on this stuff" and I reply that I got it on sale/discount/clearance or that I traded something of mine for it and it didn't actually cost me any money. Which is true most of the time
I'm a kid with no purpose or direction. But I've loved Science Fiction and Fantasy for all my life. I love this hobby, the great people involved in it (even those that are socially inept or hygiencally challenged) and all the great ideas for games and models I see in this golden age of tabletops. I've even started wondering if maybe I could make a career out of this hobby.
I don't personally hide mine,
I find it hilarious when people find out I do this as a hobby as they don't say I look the type, as I hit the gym a lot and am fairly athletic.
Its quite funny being such a contradiction and working in the hobby I love so much
Not this one, the dolls maybe (well to women, they seem to not be chill with anything I like lol)...
Though weirdly act like men are the more judgmental when nothing is further from the truth.
I'm bad enough with girls without something weird like model wargaming bringing me down lol
It's similar to what I said in another thread about time spent on the hobby; so long as you can afford it, and other aspects of your life aren't suffering for it, there's nothing to be ashamed of.
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