So I am buying a new house the one my brother bought me is a little too far in the country. Well I just put my 20000$ down payment on a house and then got a survey done.
Now here is the problem, the neighbor has his garage on my lawn by something like 30 feet. The house has only 3-4 acres I forget how you do the conversion.
Well here is the thing he said he had a deal with the last home owner that it is ok, I said well I just bought this house and I need you to move it. He came back and said when the deal finalizes he will give me the bill to move his garage. I told him where to stick it.
Now I am moving november 1st and if it is not moved I am either going to give a final warning or call the cops.
Am I being a dick? the home owner said it was there for 5 years or so and another 5 or so and he will have squatters rights...
I have to agree with whembly here (shocked gasps, I know).
If he's faced with the bill for buying the property his garage sits on, he may decide to just simply move it, or buy it.
Frankly, this guy sounds like a tool... IF I had such a deal with previous owners, I know I'd have the mental acuity to realize that you are not the previous owner, and may have other wishes.
Here's your actual problem: you paid a significant amount of money before getting the survey done and talking to a lawyer. Fix this problem ASAP, there are situations in which your neighbor is entitled to that property and situations where they aren't. And the relevant laws can vary significantly depending on where you live.
Peregrine wrote: Here's your actual problem: you paid a significant amount of money before getting the survey done and talking to a lawyer. Fix this problem ASAP, there are situations in which your neighbor is entitled to that property and situations where they aren't. And the relevant laws can vary significantly depending on where you live.
I did get a survey and a lawyer in order to put my bid in for the house. They all said it is on my lawn and it is up to me to decide if I want it moved or not.
To put a bid in I needed
A land survey
a lawyer
a realtor
20000 down deposit 8%
and proof i can get it insured
think that is everything
So now it is up to me my wife says dont start a fight and be nice I say GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!
Ustrello wrote: Offer him to buy the land at market price and if he doesn't say he will have to move it
That seems rather excessively generous, unless the OP would be happy with a smaller piece of property and wants the extra cash. I wouldn't start at market price though, start the negotiations at a very high price to reflect the fact that demolishing your garage sucks, and see how much you can get.
On the other hand, if you don't want a smaller piece of property and your lawyer is saying "this is your choice" I wouldn't give the guy anything. The garage leaves, period, and the only thing negotiable is how long the owner has to remove it voluntarily before you bring in someone to remove it for them and send them a bill. Under no circumstances should you allow him to bill you for the cost of removal.
Ustrello wrote: Offer him to buy the land at market price and if he doesn't say he will have to move it
That seems rather excessively generous, unless the OP would be happy with a smaller piece of property and wants the extra cash. I wouldn't start at market price though, start the negotiations at a very high price to reflect the fact that demolishing your garage sucks, and see how much you can get.
On the other hand, if you don't want a smaller piece of property and your lawyer is saying "this is your choice" I wouldn't give the guy anything. The garage leaves, period, and the only thing negotiable is how long the owner has to remove it voluntarily before you bring in someone to remove it for them and send them a bill. Under no circumstances should you allow him to bill you for the cost of removal.
If he is still paying a mortgage then the bank would technically still own the land? he may not be able to sell it as the mortgage is for a specific amount of land and the bank would be using it as collateral against the loan itself. This may be a matter of the neighbor has to move it whether he wants to or not, and there is the possibility he (The buyer) could leverage the bank to apply pressure if needed.
Peregrine wrote: Here's your actual problem: you paid a significant amount of money before getting the survey done and talking to a lawyer. Fix this problem ASAP, there are situations in which your neighbor is entitled to that property and situations where they aren't. And the relevant laws can vary significantly depending on where you live.
I did get a survey and a lawyer in order to put my bid in for the house. They all said it is on my lawn and it is up to me to decide if I want it moved or not.
To put a bid in I needed
A land survey
a lawyer
a realtor
20000 down deposit 8%
and proof i can get it insured
think that is everything
So now it is up to me my wife says dont start a fight and be nice I say GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!
Why did you buy the place if you knew this situation existed?
That's the real question, I think. He asked why you put down money before having the survey done, and you reiterated some stuff that really didn't answer that at all. How did this not come up prior to you writing a big ol' check?
In any event, d-usa had the right answer, you need a lawyer. I don't know how real estate laws work in Canada, but in the US if you called the cops because you bought a house and then discovered your neighbor had erected a structure on your property prior to you buying it, they wouldn't even send anyone because it's not in any way a police matter.
The additional issue is the time frame. In the US if you allow a neighbor to use your property for a long enough time frame without some kind of written agreement, they can lay a legally binding claim to that property. In fact, if you refuse to let the neighbors use your property, and they do it anyway and you don't enforce your property rights for long enough, they can legally take your property through a maneuver called adverse possession. I have a little strip of land to the left side of my house we're not really doing anything with, and occasionally, my next door neighbor's renters will park on it. I don't really care if they park there, but I still make myself go over and make them move their cars every time, because I don't want them owning my property.
Property disputes have a habit of dragging on for ages. The effects of such disputes also hang around for a long time.
You want his garage off your property, fine. Be reasonable but firm. You may well need to offer concessions (yeah, I know its your land). The opportunity to rent or lease your land maybe something to consider.
Whatever happens offer your hand and a cold one on resolution.
Have a big raging bonfire that just happens to spread to a structure on your property. It's your property so your neighbor can't claim you damaged anything on his side of the line.
If you want something legal and slightly less jerk-ish get a lawyer. It won't win you any friends but it'll be the proper legal route.
Yeah, this is a civil matter, so get your lawyer involved.
And think of your neigbours actions in this light: If I pitched a tent on the White House Lawn and lived there for 20 years, does that make the White House my property?
Of course not. In Scotland, under Scots law, we have a reset law, and your neighbour sounds like they are guilty of breaching this.
Reset: "It includes property that was taken by theft or robbery as well as property taken by breaches of trust including embezzlement, fraud and willful imposition."
I should definitely check your legal position as others have advised above.
As Mr Burning says, the long term relationship with your new neighbour (and your wife) may be worth more than a relatively tiny piece of land. The UK has seen people bankrupted by disputes over an inch or two strip of fence line.
If you've got 3 acres you don't really need to worry about a 30 foot square garage. However, you don't have to chuck away your legal property without at least checking; you could as previously suggested rent the land to the neighbour or something like that.
(Bear in mind he could be a lying get with no legal rights at all, in which case why would you want to give him a chunk of your property?)
Investigate with a lawyer and the previous arrangement.
The more you know. The more you have to work with.
However letting someone claim land you purchased... Letting someone build on it, sounds a very very odd arrangement.
Though anything he had with previous is most likely void in every term including legal.
See in the UK, if you give someone the right to use your land and they continue to do so with your knowledge then they will actually have a right to that land after about 12 years. But I don't know jack about Canadian Land Law. Go check with your lawyer.
welshhoppo wrote: See in the UK, if you give someone the right to use your land and they continue to do so with your knowledge then they will actually have a right to that land after about 12 years. But I don't know jack about Canadian Land Law. Go check with your lawyer.
You're the lawyer here are you not?
But surely, any prior deal with a previous owner, especially if it has no written contract, is invalidated by the OP who didn't agree to this previous 'deal' when he bought this land?
I think his neighbour is chancing his luck IMO.
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Kilkrazy wrote: I should definitely check your legal position as others have advised above.
As Mr Burning says, the long term relationship with your new neighbour (and your wife) may be worth more than a relatively tiny piece of land. The UK has seen people bankrupted by disputes over an inch or two strip of fence line.
If you've got 3 acres you don't really need to worry about a 30 foot square garage. However, you don't have to chuck away your legal property without at least checking; you could as previously suggested rent the land to the neighbour or something like that.
(Bear in mind he could be a lying get with no legal rights at all, in which case why would you want to give him a chunk of your property?)
If we didn't have these neighbour disputes, then Channel 5 would struggle to fill its nightly schedule
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: But surely, any prior deal with a previous owner, especially if it has no written contract, is invalidated by the OP who didn't agree to this previous 'deal' when he bought this land?
Not necessarily. There are situations where an arrangement like that transfers with the deed to the property even if it isn't explicitly agreed to by the buyer. It's like if you buy a piece of property from someone that still owes money on a mortgage involving that property, the bank still has a claim on it that transfers along to the new owners. This is why it is absolutely essential to talk to a lawyer who understands the laws of the specific jurisdiction the property sits in, attempting to handle it yourself based on general internet advice is a really stupid way to make life difficult for yourself.
Peregrine wrote: attempting to handle it yourself based on general internet advice is a really stupid way to make life difficult for yourself.
pfft, I've found the off-topic section of my local army dolls game to be the most appropriate place to seek emergency veterinary care, legal advice, and personal banking help countless times.
Now if you'll excuse me, my computer is having a problem.
welshhoppo wrote: See in the UK, if you give someone the right to use your land and they continue to do so with your knowledge then they will actually have a right to that land after about 12 years. But I don't know jack about Canadian Land Law. Go check with your lawyer.
You're the lawyer here are you not?
But surely, any prior deal with a previous owner, especially if it has no written contract, is invalidated by the OP who didn't agree to this previous 'deal' when he bought this land?
I think his neighbour is chancing his luck IMO.
You would think that, but it doesn't. You don't even need to write anything down.
Say you have a farmer with a field, and people cross this field to get to the other side. He knows this, but doesn't mind it.
Well about fifteen years of constant use later, he wants to stop people walking across the field, but it is too late. Merely by not acting, he is considered to have agreed to let the land be used as a public walkway. The land is no longer his.
Go to any privately own land, like a university and you'll see signs at the entrances saying that this is private land and there is no public right of way. Because if they didn't do that, the land would become public.
Unfortunately the courts and government have come to the agreement that you have a deal with the land. We just live on it.
Ustrello wrote: Offer him to buy the land at market price and if he doesn't say he will have to move it
That seems rather excessively generous, unless the OP would be happy with a smaller piece of property and wants the extra cash. I wouldn't start at market price though, start the negotiations at a very high price to reflect the fact that demolishing your garage sucks, and see how much you can get.
On the other hand, if you don't want a smaller piece of property and your lawyer is saying "this is your choice" I wouldn't give the guy anything. The garage leaves, period, and the only thing negotiable is how long the owner has to remove it voluntarily before you bring in someone to remove it for them and send them a bill. Under no circumstances should you allow him to bill you for the cost of removal.
Its on your proerpty. Its your garage. If he disagrees, unleash the killer moose(s). High sticks aren't just for hockey!*
*Seriously, retalk with your lawyer about this. I would not have bought the house with that on the property-don't ever do that again.
In North America, especially NORTH America, 3-4 acres can be a pretty small piece of property.
Anyways, I just want to say congratulations for starting a blood feud with your neighbor before you've even moved in. I'm sure that'll make things comfortable in the coming years.
As has been said repeatedly, a lawyer is the way to go with this. Internet talking points are worth less then the pixels used to generate them.
In North America, especially NORTH America, 3-4 acres can be a pretty small piece of property.
Anyways, I just want to say congratulations for starting a blood feud with your neighbor before you've even moved in. I'm sure that'll make things comfortable in the coming years.
As has been said repeatedly, a lawyer is the way to go with this. Internet talking points are worth less then the pixels used to generate them.
If it's really 3-4 acres then makes one wonder is that small piece of it really worth the bad blood with neighbours...16,000 square meters to play with. How big slice in % that object of contention takes away? If you are planning living there long time bad blood for years is likely going to be bigger problem...
In North America, especially NORTH America, 3-4 acres can be a pretty small piece of property.
Anyways, I just want to say congratulations for starting a blood feud with your neighbor before you've even moved in. I'm sure that'll make things comfortable in the coming years.
As has been said repeatedly, a lawyer is the way to go with this. Internet talking points are worth less then the pixels used to generate them.
If it's really 3-4 acres then makes one wonder is that small piece of it really worth the bad blood with neighbours...16,000 square meters to play with. How big slice in % that object of contention takes away? If you are planning living there long time bad blood for years is likely going to be bigger problem...
It's not that small of a chunk of his land though. He's saying the dudes entire garage is on his property, by a good grip. Roughly 200 square meters of space. Then figure the drive way, etc...
Basically, Ogre paid for land that he is not getting to use. Quick math shows that, at a bare minimum he paid more then $3000 so someone else can use his land.
Personally I'm in his camp on this. Hand shake agreement with the previous owner would mean dick all to me. If the guy doesn't want to move the garage, then he's going to pay me rent for the land.
Wait... Your brother bought you a house? Where do I find such brothers?
In any case, if it were me in this situation, I wouldn't do anything. A good neigbour is better than a far friend, and if you have such a huge area, what matter is the little part his garage is on? Were you planning to do anything with it?
If he can make better use of the land, why not let him use it?
If I had so much land, I would not even notice such a small part is gone. Must be awesome to have so much land. And house-buying brothers. You sir, are a lucky man!
In North America, especially NORTH America, 3-4 acres can be a pretty small piece of property.
Anyways, I just want to say congratulations for starting a blood feud with your neighbor before you've even moved in. I'm sure that'll make things comfortable in the coming years.
As has been said repeatedly, a lawyer is the way to go with this. Internet talking points are worth less then the pixels used to generate them.
If it's really 3-4 acres then makes one wonder is that small piece of it really worth the bad blood with neighbours...16,000 square meters to play with. How big slice in % that object of contention takes away? If you are planning living there long time bad blood for years is likely going to be bigger problem...
It's not that small of a chunk of his land though. He's saying the dudes entire garage is on his property, by a good grip. Roughly 200 square meters of space. Then figure the drive way, etc...
We don't know where it is or how it's laid out. The driveway might be on the neighbours land, and this is right up on the boundary in a corner. Maybe the plot isn't even square, and this is in a spur.
djones520 wrote: It's not that small of a chunk of his land though. He's saying the dudes entire garage is on his property, by a good grip. Roughly 200 square meters of space. Then figure the drive way, etc...
We don't know how much drive way etc. If it's close to the edge...Well we are talking about 1.2% of the area. Is that worth the bad blood? Sure you might be on right side but you are the one having to live side by side possibly for decades...You want those decades to be miserable neighbour war?
Dunno. I would try to look for some sort of compromise that both can live with. Especially if said piece of land isn't essential for my plans rather than start a war over it. I prefer good relations over...well almost everything.
Do they not require a plot survey before a building is constructed on the property? (ie to make sure it's actually on land you own) Where I'm at we aren't even allowed to put up something small like a shed or a patio without permits which require a recent survey within the last two years, garages or other major construction require not only a survey & permits but also an inspection from the county.
Leaving the garage on your property could leave you potentially on the hook for some major liability issues. If somebody were to get injured in the garage they could sue you since the accident occurred on *your* property not the neighbors. The neighbor could hurt himself or a friend in the garage which you have no control over then turn around and try to make you pay. If it were to fall into disrepair or other situations where fines might be involved you'd be the one cited as it's on your property even though it was built by the neighbor. It'd really suck to have a lean put on your house or your property seized because your neighbor was ignoring zoning or other fines.
I don't know what the drug laws are like in Canada but in the US they can seize property from owners if drugs are found on the property regardless of if it's the owner or simply a tenant. While it may not be a likely situation if the neighbor were to get busted storing drugs in the garage it's on your property so it becomes your problem and if seizure laws are anything like the US it could result in your house being taken for actions you had nothing to do with.
You want to address this immediately and make sure you are not opening yourself up to legal complications because he's placed something on your property without your approval. If he's being this nasty and you aren't even into your place yet there's no telling how rough the seas are going to be if things are allowed to continue later on. He's staked out the garage area as his and it's a sign that he probably views not only the garage but the surrounding area as his to do as he sees fit. You need to establish your unwillingness to deal with BS immediately as he's sizing you up, give an inch he's going to take a mile and then some. You are not asking anything unreasonable, he needs to respect the legally registered boundary of his property.
djones520 wrote: It's not that small of a chunk of his land though. He's saying the dudes entire garage is on his property, by a good grip. Roughly 200 square meters of space. Then figure the drive way, etc...
We don't know how much drive way etc. If it's close to the edge...Well we are talking about 1.2% of the area. Is that worth the bad blood? Sure you might be on right side but you are the one having to live side by side possibly for decades...You want those decades to be miserable neighbour war?
Same advice as most: get with a lawyer, get a second survey to be sure of exact measurements, but also try to find a peaceful solution that doesn't create bad blood with someone you'll be living next to for years to come.
stanman wrote: Do they not require a plot survey before a building is constructed on the property? (ie to make sure it's actually on land you own) Where I'm at we aren't even allowed to put up something small like a shed or a patio without permits which require a recent survey within the last two years, garages or other major construction require not only a survey & permits but also an inspection from the county.
Leaving the garage on your property could leave you potentially on the hook for some major liability issues. If somebody were to get injured in the garage they could sue you since the accident occurred on *your* property not the neighbors. The neighbor could hurt himself or a friend in the garage which you have no control over then turn around and try to make you pay. If it were to fall into disrepair or other situations where fines might be involved you'd be the one cited as it's on your property even though it was built by the neighbor. It'd really suck to have a lean put on your house or your property seized because your neighbor was ignoring zoning or other fines.
I don't know what the drug laws are like in Canada but in the US they can seize property from owners if drugs are found on the property regardless of if it's the owner or simply a tenant. While it may not be a likely situation if the neighbor were to get busted storing drugs in the garage it's on your property so it becomes your problem and if seizure laws are anything like the US it could result in your house being taken for actions you had nothing to do with.
You want to address this immediately and make sure you are not opening yourself up to legal complications because he's placed something on your property without your approval. If he's being this nasty and you aren't even into your place yet there's no telling how rough the seas are going to be if things are allowed to continue later on. He's staked out the garage area as his and it's a sign that he probably views not only the garage but the surrounding area as his to do as he sees fit. You need to establish your unwillingness to deal with BS immediately as he's sizing you up, give an inch he's going to take a mile and then some. You are not asking anything unreasonable, he needs to respect the legally registered boundary of his property.
Well here is the thing he said he had a deal with the last home owner that it is ok, I said well I just bought this house and I need you to move it. He came back and said when the deal finalizes he will give me the bill to move his garage. I told him where to stick it.
Offer to sell him the land. If not, take legal action. It's a bad situation all around tbh. You landed in some "good ole boys" club back yard situation. The only RIGHT thing to do is for him to pay you rent or buy the land.
So I am buying a new house the one my brother bought me is a little too far in the country. Well I just put my 20000$ down payment on a house and then got a survey done.
Now here is the problem, the neighbor has his garage on my lawn by something like 30 feet. The house has only 3-4 acres I forget how you do the conversion.
Well here is the thing he said he had a deal with the last home owner that it is ok, I said well I just bought this house and I need you to move it. He came back and said when the deal finalizes he will give me the bill to move his garage. I told him where to stick it.
Now I am moving november 1st and if it is not moved I am either going to give a final warning or call the cops.
Am I being a dick? the home owner said it was there for 5 years or so and another 5 or so and he will have squatters rights...
I have a few.
*Bulldozer.
*Drop a load of concrete onto the garage.
*Drop a load of concrete in front of the garage.
*Drop a load of concrete on your neighbor who's standing in your garage.**
*Start raising pigs. Eight are probably preferred. Don't feed them for two days. You'll know what to do.
*Start dancing around the woods in a clown costume, with a machete...
**preferred option.
Interestingly you bought the property and everything on the property. Its your garage now.
Peregrine wrote: attempting to handle it yourself based on general internet advice is a really stupid way to make life difficult for yourself.
pfft, I've found the off-topic section of my local army dolls game to be the most appropriate place to seek emergency veterinary care, legal advice, and personal banking help countless times.
Now if you'll excuse me, my computer is having a problem.
We can help you with that!
Back on topic, if the garage is wooden you don't need a bulldozer, you just need a flamethrower.
Okay, bought a house a few months ago and saw a couple little snags but nothing major.
#1 item: What did the prior owners have to say after the survey was done and the lawyer had a look?
"There is a structure straddling your property, any idea what that is all about??"
That should have figured rather highly on your negotiations for the price of the house and property, never-mind it clearing for the loan.
#2 There are some laws that when an item or structure is on the land sufficiently long without objective evidence of renting it, it can become theirs.
Did they offer any explanation of how long he was allowed to "borrow" the land?
Any evidence of the agreement?
The lawyer had some suggestions in that regard?
WHY in the name of all that is holy made you think this could be sorted out after a purchase in any good way at all?
I would have added a "condition" in the offer to have it sorted and then they would have been the bad guys. Yep, that would have been the best way to do it.
#3 The neighbor had to know that if the property was sold that something would happen and there was a good chance of the "agreement" being void.
There is no rental or borrowing here: his "property" devalues yours.
Dumb arrangement on his part, he may have been able to negotiate a parceling of the land or something before building or a contract agreeing to pay for it in installments or get a mortgage of sorts to ensure he did not need to tear down a garage.
My neighbors HATE the idea that I am about to add a fence for the one side of my house but it is about 1/3 of my property that is like a private parkland for them (prior owners fenced off at the corner of the house so a big 40' pie wedge is basically the neighbors). BUT the real reason is it gives the mistaken impression their property is bigger than it really is and they are thinking of selling... ah! I am inconveniencing them by claiming my property.
Unfortunately people will and shall feel entitled to whatever they want.
It may be getting off on the wrong foot but you could point out that it was the FORMER owners that hung him out to dry, not you.
Peregrine wrote: attempting to handle it yourself based on general internet advice is a really stupid way to make life difficult for yourself.
pfft, I've found the off-topic section of my local army dolls game to be the most appropriate place to seek emergency veterinary care, legal advice, and personal banking help countless times.
Now if you'll excuse me, my computer is having a problem.
We can help you with that!
Back on topic, if the garage is wooden you don't need a bulldozer, you just need a flamethrower.
A flamethrower is something you need anyway. A man's life just is not complete without one.
Peregrine wrote: attempting to handle it yourself based on general internet advice is a really stupid way to make life difficult for yourself.
pfft, I've found the off-topic section of my local army dolls game to be the most appropriate place to seek emergency veterinary care, legal advice, and personal banking help countless times.
Now if you'll excuse me, my computer is having a problem.
We can help you with that!
Back on topic, if the garage is wooden you don't need a bulldozer, you just need a flamethrower.
A flamethrower is something you need anyway. A man's life just is not complete without one.
I think it is an ideal place to store your spare old fireworks, dynamite and gasoline collection!
Does your neighbor smoke?
I would also seriously check with the bank on this. You may not have the option of renting or selling the land while you owe a mortgage. And as banks in my area have done, they may be willing to assist as it is also their interest.
Lawyer and bank. Your neighbor is an donkey-cave.
You either lose land you paid for and will resent him, or you'll kick him off the land you bought and he'll hate you. You aren't likely to be friends ever. Keep what you paid for, and tell him to bugger off.
Lawyer up
-In the US we have squatters laws, if he squats for too long(depends on the state) he owns it for free.
-Physical liability issues if someone gets hurt
-Permitting issue could be a route to take, did he get permits from the local government plus the inspections to build it? This alone could force him to tear it down.
-Destroying it might be a negative on you in the eyes of the law.
-Start Eviction process, takes several months here in the States to boot off squatters who don't want to leave.
-I would not give the option to buy the land.
-In the US normal flow for buying property is bid, survey, inspections, corrections after inspections, final inspection, then payment. This should have been handled during the survey/inspection phase before any money changed hands.
3-4 acres really isn't that big here in the States. Cant even build a long range rifle range on that
Oh, no question as Col. Dash pointed out that it is guaranteed no permit was requested for the build.
They would never agreed to issue it with the structure straddling a property line.
Getting it torn down is never a question.
Please say the transfer of ownership is not complete?
Because if it is, proceeding to get it torn down is the only way to go.
If Canada's laws are similar to ours, my main question would be "is his building on your land", but rather "am I being sold land that the owner doesn't own anymore".
Lots of talk about vigilante justice, but the garage may actually be on his land and you wouldn't have any claim to it. That's why lawyers should straighten this stuff out before final contracts are signed, and why Internet help is useless.
d-usa wrote: If Canada's laws are similar to ours, my main question would be "is his building on your land", but rather "am I being sold land that the owner doesn't own anymore".
Lots of talk about vigilante justice, but the garage may actually be on his land and you wouldn't have any claim to it. That's why lawyers should straighten this stuff out before final contracts are signed, and why Internet help is useless.
I believe the OP noted it had been surveyed and legally reviewed already, but that is indeed a good question.
And pigs, don't forget the 8 American pigs (16 British pigs). . .
d-usa wrote: If Canada's laws are similar to ours, my main question would be "is his building on your land", but rather "am I being sold land that the owner doesn't own anymore".
Lots of talk about vigilante justice, but the garage may actually be on his land and you wouldn't have any claim to it. That's why lawyers should straighten this stuff out before final contracts are signed, and why Internet help is useless.
I believe the OP noted it had been surveyed and legally reviewed already, but that is indeed a good question.
*Disclaimer: I don't know nothing about birthing no babies property laws*
I wonder what kind of legal review it might have been.
Did somebody just come by and stake the lot based on the old title, was it a title review, did the people who did the survey know that the garage belonged to somebody else or would they even care, would a change in property ownership due to adverse possession even show up in any survey or title paperwork if it hasn't been pursued in court yet, etc?
And that's just my questions based on the tiny bit of "property law" knowledge that I have, which is pretty much none. Situations like that just always seem to be a clusterfeth...
OgreChubbs wrote: So now it is up to me my wife says dont start a fight and be nice I say GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!
Your wife sounds smart. The "get off my lawn" guy was way more badass than you, and he still died, and the people close to him got raped and shot. Back in the real world, you don't want to start some ridiculous feud that drags on for years, pouring money into court battles, and not being able to trust your neighbours because they hate you, you don't need that anxiety. I suggest you work something out with the guy, especially if you're not using the land at the moment. Just make sure you're covered regarding the squatters rights thing.
d-usa wrote: If Canada's laws are similar to ours, my main question would be "is his building on your land", but rather "am I being sold land that the owner doesn't own anymore".
Lots of talk about vigilante justice, but the garage may actually be on his land and you wouldn't have any claim to it. That's why lawyers should straighten this stuff out before final contracts are signed, and why Internet help is useless.
I believe the OP noted it had been surveyed and legally reviewed already, but that is indeed a good question.
*Disclaimer: I don't know nothing about birthing no babies property laws*
I wonder what kind of legal review it might have been.
Did somebody just come by and stake the lot based on the old title, was it a title review, did the people who did the survey know that the garage belonged to somebody else or would they even care, would a change in property ownership due to adverse possession even show up in any survey or title paperwork if it hasn't been pursued in court yet, etc?
And that's just my questions based on the tiny bit of "property law" knowledge that I have, which is pretty much none. Situations like that just always seem to be a clusterfeth...
Again good questions. I think the OP said he already consulted a bloodsucker...er barrister. But we don't know really. PS: I find your new avatar strangely disturbing.
OgreChubbs wrote: So now it is up to me my wife says dont start a fight and be nice I say GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!
Your wife sounds smart. The "get off my lawn" guy was way more badass than you, and he still died, and the people close to him got raped and shot. Back in the real world, you don't want to start some ridiculous feud that drags on for years, pouring money into court battles, and not being able to trust your neighbours because they hate you, you don't need that anxiety. I suggest you work something out with the guy, especially if you're not using the land at the moment. Just make sure you're covered regarding the squatters rights thing.
If the deal is not closed I certainly wouldn't close. This will never be well even if you "play nice." You don't play nice when someone steals your money, which is what he has done, or inversely as DUSA noted, you're been cheated by the property owner into buying property he doesn't own. Based on this fact pattern, a clown suit, machete, and pigs seem to be your only option.
If the deal is not closed I certainly wouldn't close. This will never be well even if you "play nice."
Agree with this!
And even if it is closed, I'm sure a good lawyer can get you out of this mess.
I would never ever agree with guy who's proposing murder over something as trivial as this. Violence is never solution to anything. Or at least good one.
If the deal is not closed I certainly wouldn't close. This will never be well even if you "play nice."
Agree with this!
And even if it is closed, I'm sure a good lawyer can get you out of this mess.
I would never ever agree with guy who's proposing murder over something as trivial as this. Violence is never solution to anything. Or at least good one.
If the deal is not closed I certainly wouldn't close. This will never be well even if you "play nice."
Agree with this!
And even if it is closed, I'm sure a good lawyer can get you out of this mess.
I would never ever agree with guy who's proposing murder over something as trivial as this. Violence is never solution to anything. Or at least good one.
Do you have something against pigs and clowns with machetes?
Agreed with Alphy this needs to go toa lawyer. Someone has been ed. It might be you. it might be the neighbor.
And remember Home Depot has a "Deep woods machete" that is perfect for...clearing deep woods.
If the deal is not closed I certainly wouldn't close. This will never be well even if you "play nice."
Agree with this!
And even if it is closed, I'm sure a good lawyer can get you out of this mess.
I would never ever agree with guy who's proposing murder over something as trivial as this. Violence is never solution to anything. Or at least good one.
No one is actually proposing murder.
Hey if growing good bacon is a crime, color me GUILTY baby.
If the deal is not closed I certainly wouldn't close. This will never be well even if you "play nice."
Agree with this!
And even if it is closed, I'm sure a good lawyer can get you out of this mess.
I would never ever agree with guy who's proposing murder over something as trivial as this. Violence is never solution to anything. Or at least good one.
Good thing I only quoted the part I actually agreed with, and not the over the top for comedic effect only portion of Frazz's rant then, right?
Frazzled wrote: This will never be well even if you "play nice." You don't play nice when someone steals your money, which is what he has done, or inversely as DUSA noted, you're been cheated by the property owner into buying property he doesn't own.
The details of the dispute weren't really clear from what the OP posted. It could be a misunderstanding, and no one is stealing from anyone. He really needs to contact a lawyer and get all his ducks in a row. The OP needs to protect his interests, but the whole "get off my lawn" thing, it sounds like he's getting his ego involved and looking for some drama. That's probably not going to be the best way to handle it, drama is expensive.
Frazzled wrote: This will never be well even if you "play nice." You don't play nice when someone steals your money, which is what he has done, or inversely as DUSA noted, you're been cheated by the property owner into buying property he doesn't own.
The details of the dispute weren't really clear from what the OP posted. It could be a misunderstanding, and no one is stealing from anyone. He really needs to contact a lawyer and get all his ducks in a row. The OP needs to protect his interests, but the whole "get off my lawn" thing, it sounds like he's getting his ego involved and looking for some drama. That's probably not going to be the best way to handle it, drama is expensive.
Get fething real.
If the OP bought the property and the neighbor has appropriated that property for his garage that is stealing.
If the OP bought the property thinking it was his but the prior owner already granted it that is stealing.
Do they still sell the big bush axes- aka medieval polearms- used to chop brush. Every time I see one I think how good it would be and chopping zombie heads from a safe distance.
Col. Dash wrote: Do they still sell the big bush axes- aka medieval polearms- used to chop brush. Every time I see one I think how good it would be and chopping zombie heads from a safe distance.
Last time I was in, I saw splitting mauls as well as woodaxes (I didn't look, but I don't recall seeing wedges present... but then again, I wasn't looking)
Frazzled wrote: Get fething real. If the OP bought the property and the neighbor has appropriated that property for his garage that is stealing. If the OP bought the property thinking it was his but the prior owner already granted it that is stealing.
Chill the feth out!
The guy said "he had a deal with the last homeowner that it is ok". You can't say anyone is stealing when you don't know the nature of that deal. The OP didn't say whether he was offered the same deal, all he's told us, is that he told the guy to get rid of it. Since the OP seems more interested in making jokes about "get of my lawn", it's possible that he skipped over, in his account (or hasn't even made himself aware of), important details.
Frazzled wrote: Get fething real. If the OP bought the property and the neighbor has appropriated that property for his garage that is stealing. If the OP bought the property thinking it was his but the prior owner already granted it that is stealing.
Chill the feth out!
The guy said "he had a deal with the last homeowner that it is ok". You can't say anyone is stealing when you don't know the nature of that deal. The OP didn't say whether he was offered the same deal, all he's told us, is that he told the guy to get rid of it. Since the OP seems more interested in making jokes about "get of my lawn", it's possible that he skipped over, in his account (or hasn't even made himself aware of), important details.
Sure he can. This was a property transfer. Either the owner transferred the proper interest or he didn't. If he did than the neighbor is committing trespass (sue the bastard). If he did not transfer the proper interest then the owner is liable for fraudulent conveyance (or the Canadian version) (again sue the bastard).
Troy wrote: Sure he can. This was a property transfer. Either the owner transferred the proper interest or he didn't. If he did than the neighbor is committing trespass (sue the bastard). If he did not transfer the proper interest then the owner is liable for fraudulent conveyance (or the Canadian version) (again sue the bastard).
That a reasonable assumption, but an assumption nontheless. Better figure out the actual facts before you go suing anyone.
Troy wrote: Sure he can. This was a property transfer. Either the owner transferred the proper interest or he didn't. If he did than the neighbor is committing trespass (sue the bastard). If he did not transfer the proper interest then the owner is liable for fraudulent conveyance (or the Canadian version) (again sue the bastard).
That a reasonable assumption, but an assumption nontheless. Better figure out the actual facts before you go suing anyone.
I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread has suggested the OP get the facts, talk to lawyers and whatnot. All the other more extreme stuff is obvious jesting.
Frazzled wrote: Get fething real.
If the OP bought the property and the neighbor has appropriated that property for his garage that is stealing.
If the OP bought the property thinking it was his but the prior owner already granted it that is stealing.
Chill the feth out!
The guy said "he had a deal with the last homeowner that it is ok". You can't say anyone is stealing when you don't know the nature of that deal. The OP didn't say whether he was offered the same deal, all he's told us, is that he told the guy to get rid of it. Since the OP seems more interested in making jokes about "get of my lawn", it's possible that he skipped over, in his account (or hasn't even made himself aware of), important details.
You buy a car from me. The next day as your walking out of work for the day, a chap is REEEEEEEALLY giving it to his girlfriend in the driver's seat. You start to lose your marbles when the sweaty chap says " hey chill out, I had an agreement with good ol KC before you bought this car, that I can fill my lady friend up in your seat. Everything's fine!"
You're going to be completely cool with this scenario right? No?! Ok they same logic really
KingCracker wrote: You buy a car from me. The next day as your walking out of work for the day, a chap is REEEEEEEALLY giving it to his girlfriend in the driver's seat. You start to lose your marbles when the sweaty chap says " hey chill out, I had an agreement with good ol KC before you bought this car, that I can fill my lady friend up in your seat. Everything's fine!"
You're going to be completely cool with this scenario right? No?! Ok they same logic really
No, it's not the same logic at all. You can call it unfair all you like, but there are cases where an agreement like that is incorporated into the property and transfers to the new owner. This is why real estate disputes need to go to a lawyer, it's all a complicated mess that doesn't always align with what you think is right.
KingCracker wrote: You buy a car from me. The next day as your walking out of work for the day, a chap is REEEEEEEALLY giving it to his girlfriend in the driver's seat. You start to lose your marbles when the sweaty chap says " hey chill out, I had an agreement with good ol KC before you bought this car, that I can fill my lady friend up in your seat. Everything's fine!"
You're going to be completely cool with this scenario right? No?! Ok they same logic really
No, it's not the same logic at all. You can call it unfair all you like, but there are cases where an agreement like that is incorporated into the property and transfers to the new owner. This is why real estate disputes need to go to a lawyer, it's all a complicated mess that doesn't always align with what you think is right.
Actually, its the correct logic for what I was making the context about. The poster I quoted didn't understand why frazz or the home owner should be getting upset about what happened. Hence why I changed the situation to my story about sex and a used car. I think the home owner is rightfully upset about the situation, and just to not leave you any chance of missing my point again, yeah lawyers. Period. Never take the free opinion over a professionals opinion.
Col. Dash wrote: -Permitting issue could be a route to take, did he get permits from the local government plus the inspections to build it? This alone could force him to tear it down.
Well, that's also one of the few things I can think of that would make you build a garage on the neighbor's side instead of your own. He didn't manage to get the right permits for his own side and built one on a property where it was permitted, either with some sort of deal or not.
At least over here properties are often rated for how much you can build so one with free building square meters is obviously worth more than one that's full. You might still need to get inspections but as long as the building you want isn't too out-of-place in the neighborhood it's usually automatic, unlike trying to get permits if your rights are already full.
KingCracker wrote: Actually, its the correct logic for what I was making the context about. The poster I quoted didn't understand why frazz or the home owner should be getting upset about what happened. Hence why I changed the situation to my story about sex and a used car. I think the home owner is rightfully upset about the situation.
You're mistaken, I understand perfectly why the guy is "upset", but something being upsetting isn't always the same as something being unlawful, and even something being unlawful isn't always the same as something being deliberate. People were jumping to the conclusion that there is definitely some kind of stealing/scamming going on. All I was saying is that we've heard less than one side of the story. It's difficult to draw any conclusions based on such sparse information, let alone start making accusations. It was other posters who seemed not to understand.
Well that's fair enough then I guess. I keep checking back in this thread just to get an update because of essentially the same reason you mentioned, I'm curious just how the hell a guy managed to build and entire garage on the wrong property and how it was allowed to happen.
There was a story like this a couple years back. Long story short, a guy died and left parts of his farm to his two sons. He left the bulk of it (the actual farmable land) to one son, and the home, yard, and detached garage to the other son.
The problem was that the deceased father had made a little typo in the will. The Property line that divided the brother's property now ran through the side of the detached garage.
Greedy brother #1 had wanted the house, and was mad that was given to brother #2. He ended up painting the property line INSIDE AND OUT of the garage. Eventually he took a chainsaw and cut off the side of the garage that was on his property.
My garage is actually about a foot over the line on one side. When I bought the property I signed a variance agreement that stated such. My neighbor cannot tear it down but I cannot expand or alter my garage without moving it over to my side without my neighbors permission. Luckily we are on fairly good terms and it isn't an issue. We will be altering the garage next spring, hopefully we will still be on good terms.
SlaveToDorkness wrote: My garage is actually about a foot over the line on one side. When I bought the property I signed a variance agreement that stated such. My neighbor cannot tear it down but I cannot expand or alter my garage without moving it over to my side without my neighbors permission. Luckily we are on fairly good terms and it isn't an issue. We will be altering the garage next spring, hopefully we will still be on good terms.
And thats how it should be. Thats an agreed upon situation. The OP is not an agreed upon situation.
I will avoid being insulted by the suggesion that Canadian property/civil law is conducted with nothing more than spit in your palm and a handshake. We definately do have to have it all written down, on the mandated 2' by 4' piece of birch bark written with a #3 piece of coal.
Less sarcastic, yes. In fact, his lawyers are supposed to investigate the deed and any easements or variances that are attached to it. If his lawyer did not inform him of any, and the issue only became apparent when it was surveyed, then either his lawyers are incompetent or there is no such legal variance/easement. I am not up on squatter's right in Canada, but I am relatively sure it does not actually exist. It may be something that people believe exists, or they assume exists because of American/British law, but without a legal agreement that the garage (or carhole, as we call it in Canada), it's illegal.
For my money, I hope he its not closed yet. This is one of those things that can break the deal over.
I'd avoid the whole situation, break the deal, and buy a different house that is not coming with this kind of baggage.
Well I told my lawyer and indeed it is on my land after talking to the neighbor about it and being told to f off. I decided to leave it up to the courts, the lawyer said on nov 1st he will be told he has 30 days to remove it or forfit it. Mostly due do to me fencing in my yard, so he will be unable to get his stuff after that.
OgreChubbs wrote: Well I told my lawyer and indeed it is on my land after talking to the neighbor about it and being told to f off. I decided to leave it up to the courts, the lawyer said on nov 1st he will be told he has 30 days to remove it or forfit it. Mostly due do to me fencing in my yard, so he will be unable to get his stuff after that.
Col. Dash wrote: Sucks you and your neighbor will now have a cold war between you two for a while. Hopefully he will move.
Yeah that does suck living next to someone that you cant get along with. I remember when we were young kids we lived in a neighborhood that my parents hated and it was in part because there were 2 neighbors that they just LOATHED and one of them lived right next door to us. Theyd call the cops when we would play basketball due to noise and once even called the police and said my mom was ripping trees out of their yard and causing a ruckus. We lived there for 10 years or so until my dad finally gave in and moved.
having saying that though, I dont blame you for going this route. Being pleasant to a neighbor only goes so far, and when the neighbor is literally trying to steal your property then the line has been crossed
ed. It might be you. it might be the neighbor.
