Anyone watching it? I never saw the original movie but I knew of it, and the show is looking awesome.

..soo....


yeah.


It was....alright.

I really wanted to love it/be hooked but it didn't quite grab me as much as I hoped it would.


Well acted shot etc etc -- cast all fine etc etc.

Just, perhaps, a bit too slow.


Music was a bit odd as well in parts ?

Seemed to be instrumental/classical/acoustic style covers of "modern" songs.... which were nice enough but proved something of a distraction for me.

I liked it, but didn't love it. I'll watch pretty much anything anthony hopkins.

Interested enough to keep watching and see how it develops, but I think it's gonna develop really slow since HBO is gonna give it Game of Thrones Syndrome.

Finally got to watch Ep 2. I'm enjoying it but I'm also concerned that it may not have a very good pay off tbh. They are spending a lot of time on set up and characterization, which is good, but I do wonder if it will end up with a great rise and a bit of a meh drop.

It might be as Necros says (GoTS) but it really would be best as a one season narrative arc. Trying to drag it out probably wouldn't be a very good idea.

I think it's intended to be a slow burn, so I'm watching it with that in mind. But I also feel like there's a lot going on under the surface. Episode 1 set things up as a somewhat typical AI sci-fi story, but episode 2 seemed to hint at some other stuff. The encounter between Ford and the boy raised some interesting questions about the nature of the androids. I'm also now a little less sure of which characters are androids and which aren't.

Finding out at the end of episode two that Hopkin's character has a 'storyline' he has been working on for some time makes me wonder if the hosts gaining sentience isn't part of his bigger plan/story, though that could be total crap of course.

I liked Episode 2 more than the first, maybe because things are starting to happen now. Curious to see where the Ed Harris thing is going. starting to wonder if maybe there are more robots than humans and most of the people making robots are robots themselves and just don't know it.

 Ahtman wrote:
Finding out at the end of episode two that Hopkin's character has a 'storyline' he has been working on for some time makes me wonder if the hosts gaining sentience isn't part of his bigger plan/story, though that could be total crap of course.

He was the one who introduced the code that's been causing the hosts to go twitchy, right?

 Necros wrote:
I liked Episode 2 more than the first, maybe because things are starting to happen now. Curious to see where the Ed Harris thing is going. starting to wonder if maybe there are more robots than humans and most of the people making robots are robots themselves and just don't know it.

Regarding the hosts, one theory out there is that



Regarding Harris, another theory (which is interesting and has me wanting to closely re-watch both episodes for environmental clues) is that

 gorgon wrote:
He was the one who introduced the code that's been causing the hosts to go twitchy, right?

That is what Jeffrey Wright's character (Head programmer Lowe*) believes and has said as much ie the 'reveries'.

As for the Man in Black:

It was said there was a 'critical incident' thirty years ago and the MiB says he has been there for thirty years so there is a good chance they are connected.



*who also apparently was a student of Ford's.

Interesting. I hadn't considered that:



Whose voice was that saying "wake up"? To me, it sounded like Lowe. If so...working in cahoots with Ford or pursuing his own agenda? What if he found out something interesting about himself?

Also, Ford's time with the boy host got my gears turning.



Another point about the MiB:

 gorgon wrote:

Spoiler:

Was there a church in the original film? Maybe that's what's going on with the steeple...it's the old park, buried.

I don't remember as it has been so long since I saw the original. Interesting thought though.

 gorgon wrote:

Spoiler:

Is he meant to be a childhood friend of Ford's? Or Ford himself?

 gorgon wrote:

Spoiler:

I think they also said that Dolores is one of the oldest hosts in the park. She could have been there 30 years ago.

Its a little slow. Even when episode two has the MIB doing da bang bang (love the LeMat revolver) it seems...slow.

I suppose that depends on whether you find it engrossing or not. Personally I find it so enjoyable the end of the episode actually creeps up on me.

 gorgon wrote:
Regarding Harris, another theory (which is interesting and has me wanting to closely re-watch both episodes for environmental clues) is that

Spoiler:

William is the Man in Black. The theory is that William's scenes are set 30 years earlier. Note how William deliberately chooses between the white and black hats. Presumably something happened to him that made him take a dark turn and become the MiB.

Been ages since I've seen the original movie... I watched it for Yul Brenner... I may have to check this one out.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Regarding Harris, another theory (which is interesting and has me wanting to closely re-watch both episodes for environmental clues) is that

Spoiler:

William is the Man in Black. The theory is that William's scenes are set 30 years earlier. Note how William deliberately chooses between the white and black hats. Presumably something happened to him that made him take a dark turn and become the MiB.

Spoiler:

Apparently, when William arrives in Westworld, the logo seen on the screens is different than the one seen in other scenes (mainly when they show the 'back of house' stuff). The logo shown in William's scenes is much more 'retro' than the sleek futuristic logo.

Well,

But,

Well, the end of ep 3 *may* put that line of thinking to rest.



So if Ford is the "God" figure (and not necessarily a benevolent one), does that mean



So what weirded her out about the Orion constellation?

There was a theory that one of the hosts (most likely Delores) is more aware than letting one and is lying when going through diagnostics. A week or two before the show started someone made a post on reddit saying that they weren't scared about a machine passing the Turing Test that they were terrified of a machine purposefully failing it and JJ Abrams (or one of the producers) replied with "Well have we got a show for you".

The actress is doing a really good job with that, I think. I have to watch that conversation with Lowe again. But IIRC, she delivers the line about there being only one version of herself with some warmth and naturalism, but then delivers a stock answer-sounding line right afterward with more coldness and a distant stare. Almost like she knew she showed too much and then pulled it back to act like the good little robot. It's subtle, but not THAT subtle and felt intentional.

Loving this show so far. Decided to watch it with my roommate last week and we both loved it.

So far I think the acting done by the Hosts has been pretty amazing. Even more so for the ones that are dropping in and out of accents and mannerisms during the diagnostics.

Couple questions if anybody knows the answers to them.



Keep in mind, I never watched the movie.

Yeah I think they know about the man in black.. I think I remember one quick scene where that security guy said something like "That customer gets anything he wants" .. so if he was going there for the last 30 years, he's probably a Platinum Club Member by now... if they have those.

I think I saw some theorizing around the MiB not being a corporeal being, but something in the heads of the hosts, since that's whom he seems to interact with. But yeah, the "gets whatever he wants" line seems to debunk that.

I'm watching it, and it's ok, but knowing very little about the old movie or book, and knowing it's written by Michael Crichton, I'm afraid it's basically just going to be Jurassic park with robots instead of dinosaurs, which if so, is going to be pretty disappointing.

I mean, how many stories about near-futuristic parks that utilize advanced technology that go haywire and start killing people can one author write?

Well the original was pretty much Jurassic Park with robots instead of dinosaurs, only decades before that was book or movie were done. It is even the same author though in the case of Westworld he also directed it.

Still, this series is taking a different approach to the question and isn't probably going to be as simple as machines going haywire.

Well in episode four we learn a bit more about the Man In Black. He is human, he knew the co-creator of the hosts, and is on some sort of quest to solve the only mystery that matters in the park. Well according to him.

Delores seems to be inching closer to self realization.

Maeve seems to be inching closer to realizing that the park ain't quite right, though not necessarily that she isn't human.

Ford is increasingly getting darker, though thirty years of basically playing god might do that to a person. Still the scene between Cullen and Ford (Knudsen and Hopkins) was incredibly well done and tense.

 Ahtman wrote:

Spoiler:

I think my favorite scene was when Maeve drew the picture of the man from her vision then went to hide it and found she had been drawing it and hiding it for quite some time.

I liked how the way they handled it aped

I love this show! The tension is killing me! I can't wait to see where they're going with it!

I am enjoying it - lots of good stuff.

Thinking that the nice guy and Delores is going to end badly.

 gorgon wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

Spoiler:

I think my favorite scene was when Maeve drew the picture of the man from her vision then went to hide it and found she had been drawing it and hiding it for quite some time.

I liked how the way they handled it aped

Spoiler:

"alien abduction" experiences and mythology. It's a cute jab at the audience about whether we can be sure of our own free will and humanity.

That was a brilliant scene.

I'm hooked. I'm loving the slow pace, the premise, and the acting. Lots of layers of weird complexity that are drawing me in - but might not be everyone's cup of tea. I can't see this show having the fan base or appeal of Games of Thrones for example. Though maybe that's not a fair comparison, as GoT is quite excellent, among the best shows on TV.

Certainly give the first few episodes a go (we're up to about four at the time of this post, I think) to see if it's your thing.

I'm hooked.

It's incredibly character driven. A lot of the joy of watching the show is how the hosts subtly change, and develop, from episode to episode.

Definitely a slow burn, but something that would be great to binge watch. Each episode ends leaving you with new questions that won't get answered until the next episode.

I have to say I also love the decision that they have been open 30+ years, and it's not something that fell apart as quickly as a Jurassic Park. It's a nice nod to the original, hinting it could be a direct sequel, and not a total reboot.

A few things I noticed. Since the robots (at least some of them) have the ability to self-override programming and use weapons they were intentionally forbidden to use, does that mean that some weapons like knives or clubs might become lethal to guests?

Both Delores and Maeve have been able to hide things that they find the next day. Either there are "blind" spots in the security feed or there is too much to watch at any given moment.

The base code for all the robots is still based on the original code written years ago when they were still trying to make the hosts self-aware. Now that they can tap into past memories, is some of that original root code reasserting itself?

Delores is the only one, so far, that has been able to use a weapons without permission. They went out of way to show us the bandits stuck in a loop, arguing for 2 days, over who was going to make dinner because none of them could use the axe.

Delores is clearly special. As the oldest host still in service, I could see them using the explanation, you've theorized, about her having the original code.

About security, I imagine they are only flagged when a host does something unusual and possibly dangerous. Sticking a piece of paper under a floor board, or walking outside for a breath of night air is probably below their notice.

I'm at a loss for an explanation how the bullets don't do more than a paintball's worth of harm to the guests, but I imagine a host that's gone wild would be able to inflict serious harm to a guess in melee.

The website has a 'contract' for guests and in it it refers to the weapons using proprietary technology. The weapons are able to somehow differentiate between guests and hosts.

Yeah the weapons clearly have some extra fanciness under the service as the control room was able to jam the one guys gun remotely. Also curious what would have happened with the "minor pyrotechnics" if permission hadn't been granted.

 AduroT wrote:
Also curious what would have happened with the "minor pyrotechnics" if permission hadn't been granted.

They probably would have had to wait for the Guest with the Snake Lady to come do the original Rescue Plan.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Also curious what would have happened with the "minor pyrotechnics" if permission hadn't been granted.

They probably would have had to wait for the Guest with the Snake Lady to come do the original Rescue Plan.

I more mean would the cigars have just failed to explode? Would something have put them out? Would he have even known his permission was denighed?

 AduroT wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Also curious what would have happened with the "minor pyrotechnics" if permission hadn't been granted.

They probably would have had to wait for the Guest with the Snake Lady to come do the original Rescue Plan.

I more mean would the cigars have just failed to explode? Would something have put them out? Would he have even known his permission was denighed?

Well, with how much control over the environment is implied by the guns and the whole exploding cigar thing in the first place, they could probably just press a button and have the match blow out or somesuch. Or have them be duds - emit a puff of smoke but no real bang.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Also curious what would have happened with the "minor pyrotechnics" if permission hadn't been granted.

They probably would have had to wait for the Guest with the Snake Lady to come do the original Rescue Plan.

I more mean would the cigars have just failed to explode? Would something have put them out? Would he have even known his permission was denighed?

Well, with how much control over the environment is implied by the guns and the whole exploding cigar thing in the first place, they could probably just press a button and have the match blow out or somesuch. Or have them be duds - emit a puff of smoke but no real bang.

The level of control does seem quite Hunger Games and I guess they are not watching everything all the time as there is definitely stuff going on that they miss. They jammed the attackers (including a guests) guns in the latest episode but the control room was focussed on that "scene".

Be interesting to see if long term and VIP guests like the MIB have exploits - paid or otherwise.

So much nudity. I think there may have been a story as well, but not sure.

Someone at HBO finally realized the boob quota was too low for this show so far, then George RR Martin told them there weren't enough floppy wieners, and there ya go!

I liked the exchange with Harris and Hopkins in the bar, and how Cyclops grabbed the knife so fast even though he was all wounded and stuff. I thought Harris was gonna be the villain, but I'm feeling more like it's Hopkins' god complex that's gonna get him in trouble in the end. I'm betting something will go down and Dolores will be the one to not follow his orders, and more drama will ensue.

 Ahtman wrote:
So much nudity. I think there may have been a story as well, but not sure.

Have you watched Sparticus

I think this one episode may have had more boobs than all of GoT so far combined.

It was kind of funny that there was an orgy involving dozens, if not hundreds, of extras, and none of it really had anything to do with the main characters or story.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
So much nudity. I think there may have been a story as well, but not sure.

Have you watched Sparticus

I started to but then never got back to it. I hear it was both good and gratuitous, which means mandatory viewing!

 Ahtman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
So much nudity. I think there may have been a story as well, but not sure.

Have you watched Sparticus

I started to but then never got back to it. I hear it was both good and gratuitous, which means mandatory viewing!

It is extremely well written with geat acting, plot and style - it also has huge amounts of nudity, sex and violence - but then thats in keeping with the subject matter. It does make stuff like Westworld and GoT look tame.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/you-can-now-own-some-of-westworlds-old-timey-music-cove-1788458167?rev=1478030763297&utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Djawadi’s arrangements for Westworld. Others—hereafter known as the wrong ones—do not. Here’s what I know: there are only five tracks on the just-released Westworld soundtrack, and I will be listening to them on repeat for days.

You can buy the Westworld theme and four covers on iTunes for $4.99 or listen to the album streaming on Spotify. The four other tracks are Djawadi’s versions of “Black Hole Sun,” “Paint It, Black,” by the Rolling Stones, “No Surprises” by Radiohead, and “A Forest” by the Cure.

I maintain that the “Paint It, Black” scene in Westworld is the exact moment the show snapped into place. It used the song, the Western setting, the old timey instrumental, and visual cues right out of a video game and synthesized it all. That’s when the show went from pretty with some interesting questions to something that was fun to watch. And also, because it’s Westworld, it then made me feel bad for wanting more awesome action and less thinky thoughts.

Below is the music. It should make anything you do in the next 15 minutes much more epic.

I am really enjoying this show, I thought that episode 5 really picked it up a notch. There is some superb acting and the production values seem insane, for example way better than the recent Magnificent Seven movie .

And that version of "A Forest" is sublime

I was actually surprised by how much violence the hosts can inflict on the guests while they are that far away from Sweetwater. The one cocky guest (I forget his name) throws his pistol on the table to intimidate a host, and gets a sucker punch in return. I'm pretty sure he didn't think it would happen. Later on he gets a full-scale back alley beat down.

If hosts can do that kind of physical harm there, what are they allowed to do even farther out? Is it possible that live ammunition could be used in the most extreme corner of the park?

 cuda1179 wrote:
A few things I noticed. Since the robots (at least some of them) have the ability to self-override programming and use weapons they were intentionally forbidden to use, does that mean that some weapons like knives or clubs might become lethal to guests?

As far as I recall, there has been no hint that the blades of guests were different from the blades of the hosts. So from that point of view the answer could be yes. The Black Rider threatened you-know-who with gutting him (cool scene, btw.)

On the other hand: if bullets can be "intelligent" enough to make the distinction, why should blades be any different?

I'm thinking retractable knife blades.

I made the mistake of watching some Youtube videos about fan theories, and now I can't unsee what I have seen.

The Guardian have a nice article about various Westworld fan theories:

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/oct/30/westworld-wild-fan-theories-about-sci-fi-tv-series

Read at your own risk.

my theory is sort of like lost the really haven't decided what the heck is going on athough they'll do doubt have some sort of semi reveal at the end of the season,

why go in with a long range plan when fans may well come up with a much cooler idea, this way you can pick the one you like and run with it

Oh, I don't think it is or will be anywhere near as sloppy as Lost. Given the writers involved, I think they have a clear plan that they've been executing.

I dunno lately I'm starting to think there's no big mystery and everything is happening as you see it. I think other shows and movies have conditioned us to expect them. There's no 6th sense twist or matrix people or smoke monsters, just lots of different backstories intertwining. Hopkins being loopy and thinking he's RoboGod. Harris is the kid who's been playing WOW nonstop for 12 years. Dolores is the driod who's learning how to feel. Etc.

Spinning wild theories has become a real thing with fans. Remember that "Joker is a former Robin" thing that people were spinning into pages and pages of content? I think people are doing this now with any genre show.

Now, I think there are clearly a few mysteries going on in WW...the maze, the Orion/transmitter thread, etc. But yes, people should probably try not to lose sight of the show itself while trying to unravel - or invent - secrets.

 adamsouza wrote:

Spoiler:

The theory is that we are watching 2 storys happening 30 years apart, showing one guests first and last trip to the park.

Yes-


In the meantime, here's a pretty good story on various Westworld theories (with spoilers through episode five).

 gorgon wrote:
Spinning wild theories has become a real thing with fans. Remember that "Joker is a former Robin" thing that people were spinning into pages and pages of content? I think people are doing this now with any genre show.

Now, I think there are clearly a few mysteries going on in WW...the maze, the Orion/transmitter thread, etc. But yes, people should probably try not to lose sight of the show itself while trying to unravel - or invent - secrets.

I agree with this and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 gorgon wrote:
Spinning wild theories has become a real thing with fans. Remember that "Joker is a former Robin" thing that people were spinning into pages and pages of content? I think people are doing this now with any genre show.

Now, I think there are clearly a few mysteries going on in WW...the maze, the Orion/transmitter thread, etc. But yes, people should probably try not to lose sight of the show itself while trying to unravel - or invent - secrets.

Yes, but there is also a push from the show's marketing team to keep these theories spinning, like when the official Westworld Twitter account said that logos should be scrutinized.

 gorgon wrote:
Spinning wild theories has become a real thing with fans. Remember that "Joker is a former Robin" thing that people were spinning into pages and pages of content? I think people are doing this now with any genre show.

Now, I think there are clearly a few mysteries going on in WW...the maze, the Orion/transmitter thread, etc. But yes, people should probably try not to lose sight of the show itself while trying to unravel - or invent - secrets.

1. Why? Or more precise: Where is the problem with theorizing? (I am actually very happy that there are shows out there that let you do it, instead of having no mystery at all.)

Do you have a problem to discern fan theories and what is acutally going on in the series? Might that be actually a problem of you not being able to follow the show? Or is this a "Can you please leave a bit of mystery"/"I don't want to flooded with theories which diminish my personal enjoyment of the show."?

Because I hope you know that your media consumption is largely controlled by yourself.
Wanna keep the mystery? Do not go to forum topics that discuss your show!

2. This is no new phenomenon. Star Wars - A new hope sparked huge discussions on how everything was connected, and how it would go on. Internet discussions have just accelerated and spread the scope of such discussions. In the 70s and 80s these discussions were largely distributed via fanzines and mail correspondence, i.e. only the nerds had a grasp of super-local discussions. Now, every media outlet and her friend is looking to get a piece of that consumer attention and international fora let you discuss almost anything with almost anyone.

Again: your media consumption is up to you.

Speculation in general isn't the problem it is when it becomes all encompassing to the point of distracting from the narrative.

Thank god I missed all those Star Wars conversations as well, they sound awful.

 treslibras wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Spinning wild theories has become a real thing with fans. Remember that "Joker is a former Robin" thing that people were spinning into pages and pages of content? I think people are doing this now with any genre show.

Now, I think there are clearly a few mysteries going on in WW...the maze, the Orion/transmitter thread, etc. But yes, people should probably try not to lose sight of the show itself while trying to unravel - or invent - secrets.

1. Why? Or more precise: Where is the problem with theorizing? (I am actually very happy that there are shows out there that let you do it, instead of having no mystery at all.)

Do you have a problem to discern fan theories and what is acutally going on in the series? Might that be actually a problem of you not being able to follow the show? Or is this a "Can you please leave a bit of mystery"/"I don't want to flooded with theories which diminish my personal enjoyment of the show."?

Because I hope you know that your media consumption is largely controlled by yourself.
Wanna keep the mystery? Do not go to forum topics that discuss your show!

2. This is no new phenomenon. Star Wars - A new hope sparked huge discussions on how everything was connected, and how it would go on. Internet discussions have just accelerated and spread the scope of such discussions. In the 70s and 80s these discussions were largely distributed via fanzines and mail correspondence, i.e. only the nerds had a grasp of super-local discussions. Now, every media outlet and her friend is looking to get a piece of that consumer attention and international fora let you discuss almost anything with almost anyone.

Again: your media consumption is up to you.

This isn't a very interesting conversation, so I'm not going to waste too many words on it. I'll just say this -- I think you're 100% free to enjoy media on whatever terms you choose. My enjoyment wasn't an issue here, as an actual reading of my post will reveal, although I recognize that may not be your strong point as a 'theorist'. But I question the sense of some people -- and in some cases, the richness of their lives -- when they've spent countless hours 'theorizing' over details and yet can't articulate the basic themes involved in a given work. Again, it's your choice -- but IMO it's a very, very silly one and in some cases kind of a sad one. Is that clear enough for you?

@Ahtman -- The operating title of my newsletter is "Just Watch the @!$%ing Show".

@gorgon: I am sorry but if you wanted to convey something else than "I am a judgemental pr..." you did not do a good job, I am afraid.

Someone wasting so much of his life time painting plastic figurines and writing posts on basically a toy forum, is not in the best seat to belittle others of their nerdy interests.
(And seriously, starting a response with "This isn't a very interesting conversation, so I'm not going to waste too many words on it" (in a sub-discussion that you basically started) makes you look like a teenage fool.)

I am not saying that I agree with all theories or that I am a huge fan of over-theorizing. Just that I can understand the pleasures of letting your imagination wander and make up theories on things that have not been fully explained yet, from a general point of view.

Again, if you find weird (or even half-assed, stupid or contradicting) theories about series with mysteries "distracting from the narrative" then YOU have a problem, not people who can follow same show and spin out theories and/or read those theories and still enjoy the show for what it is - or even more than you do.

It seems like you are conflating obsession over minutiae and general discussion. It is one thing to talk about something it is another to end up like The Question where everything means something except what it is or really means. Do you know what an Aglet is?

There was a nice Easter egg to Westworld in tonight's episode. After poking around on the internet, I'm pleased to see that I wasn't the only one to catch it!

My favorite part of last night's episode was seeing the miniatures and woodland scenics trees on Anthony Hopkins' desk. But everything else was cool overall.

About Lawrence being the outlaw leader guy... I took that as there just being 2 of him. Like, the park only has so many different robots, and there's probably more duplicates mixed in as extras here and there, maybe with different hairdos and beards and personalities to disguise em more.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
There was a nice Easter egg to Westworld in tonight's episode. After poking around on the internet, I'm pleased to see that I wasn't the only one to catch it!

Do you mean:

Kind of expected that. Maybe not Exactly that, but mostly that.

Well, he showed up in the sequel to the original westworld, so I'd be surprised if he hadn't turned up in this re-tread.



21st century has shown that dead does not mean your image won't get reused long afterwards.

Don't smoke, kids.

Why...but...what...huh...nooooooo

Yeah I was expecting that too. In fact as soon as he said "what door?" I was like "called it!"

Good episode overall. I like how the brothel lady is slowing turning into Skynet.

 Necros wrote:
Yeah I was expecting that too. In fact as soon as he said "what door?" I was like "called it!"

To be honest, I felt that was so obivous once it happened, I was amazed she didn't catch it.

We've never seen Arnold so maybe Bernard is a simulacrum of Arnold that Ford made to keep his 'friend' around.

Did I just blow your mind? Is your mind blown?

 Ahtman wrote:
We've never seen Arnold so maybe Bernard is a simulacrum of Arnold that Ford made to keep his 'friend' around.

Did I just blow your mind? Is your mind blown?

Are we not meant to infer that he is Arnold based on the room they found? It's the same one "Bernard" was having his little interviews with Dolores in, with the Host-printer instead of their chairs, isn't it? Yet Bernard said he didn't recognise it. Sure that could be Ford's programming, but if so what's his game? His wee chat with Dolores the other week as well as the sentiments expressed in this one would seem to suggest he wouldn't like the idea of the Hosts attaining true sentience, yet the talks between Dolores and "Bernard" seemed to be him discovering that tendency in her; were he the Bernard that is under Ford's control, surely he would have told Ford about Dolores and Ford would've have just "retired" her. So that suggests either those scenes were in fact Arnold and Bernard is and always has been a duplicate of him, or Ford is playing some ridiculously convoluted long game that the show's writers don't want us to figure out yet.

Also - calling it now, the "Host" that was being printed is a duplicate of Theresa, and Ford has been murdering those the board sent to "test him" and replacing them all along.

I was thinking the same thing about the one being printed too. And that maybe there was a real Bernard at one time, and he's been replaced.

I just hope it doesn't turn into a "Where's the cylon" game like BSG.

It looked like a child in size so I thought he was remaking the kid from the last episode that killed the dog and lied about it.

HBO has already picked up Westworld for season 2.

Also, the shows creators have said they already have 5 seasons, and a finale, mapped out.

Five seasons? Damn. I don't know how they'll keep it interesting/coherent for that long. Would have preferred only two seasons to wrap up the story.

Rome also had five seasons mapped out but didn't make it that far. Planning on a TV show running that long is one of the things that makes me worry that we will never really get a satisfying payoff. Still the performances are strong enough to warrant a watch. I can also hope that they are able to get it done.

I too think a two season arc would have been fine.

Considering this is on HBO and pretty much everyone's been drawing comparisons with Game of Thrones, I doubt they'll be dropping it before the full run - I expect the reason they've planned out five seasons is HBO told them they'll get five providing it does well, and it seems to be.

Also - and I'm kickin myself for not noticing - someone in that YT video comments pointed out that Bernard Lowe is actually an anagram of Arnold Weber. That might be a misdirect, but the way they appear to have set up clues about Bernard and properly paid them off gives me hope this show will do mysteries properly(ie, they provide clues that lead to the right answers if people can follow them, and which make even the odd bits seem logical with hindsight) rather than the infuriating "mystery box" style so beloved by Abrams(ie, hurling dozens of mutually contradictory "clues" at the viewer and then pulling a revelation out of your arse in the final episode that wasn't even remotely foreshadowed, and leaving all the plot threads created by your earlier lies unresolved).

 Ahtman wrote:
We've never seen Arnold so maybe Bernard is a simulacrum of Arnold that Ford made to keep his 'friend' around.

Did I just blow your mind? Is your mind blown?

Oh. Em. Gee.

 Yodhrin wrote:
That might be a misdirect, but the way they appear to have set up clues about Bernard and properly paid them off gives me hope this show will do mysteries properly(ie, they provide clues that lead to the right answers if people can follow them, and which make even the odd bits seem logical with hindsight) rather than the infuriating "mystery box" style so beloved by Abrams(ie, hurling dozens of mutually contradictory "clues" at the viewer and then pulling a revelation out of your arse in the final episode that wasn't even remotely foreshadowed, and leaving all the plot threads created by your earlier lies unresolved).

Yeah, I think this show has done a really nice job of setting up a coherent mystery...one that isn't blatantly obvious, but also one that's highly solvable based on the info they provide. It has just the right amount of bread crumbs to keep people engaged and moving through the narrative, rather than leaving them to spin their wheels (leading to the silly kind of theories I ranted about earlier).

At this point we can't know the full meaning of the maze. However, this episode's revelations support the idea that there are two timelines, and that in the earlier timeline Dolores had an 'awakening', as William and presumably Arnold discovered. The Man in Black is indeed probably William, obsessed with/unable to let go of whatever went down in the past. The picture is being painted in, step by step.

Considering the show really just follows 1 guest and 3 hosts, they could always expand this to follow additional characters in later seasons.

A friend and I were talking about next season just yesterday. Wasn't there talk about them exploring other parks in future seasons?

So they could, for instance, do it as a linked anthology of sorts. Next season could deal with some of the same themes, but explore what's going on over in Futureworld. They could even use the same actors for the hosts. Cylons, basically.

At this point we can't know the full meaning of the maze. However, this episode's revelations support the idea that there are two timelines, and that in the earlier timeline Dolores had an 'awakening', as William and presumably Arnold discovered. The Man in Black is indeed probably William, obsessed with/unable to let go of whatever went down in the past. The picture is being painted in, step by step.

I hope not as it would seem to make Delores current story pointless as she merely reverts to victim status?

 Mr Morden wrote:

At this point we can't know the full meaning of the maze. However, this episode's revelations support the idea that there are two timelines, and that in the earlier timeline Dolores had an 'awakening', as William and presumably Arnold discovered. The Man in Black is indeed probably William, obsessed with/unable to let go of whatever went down in the past. The picture is being painted in, step by step.

I hope not as it would seem to make Delores current story pointless as she merely reverts to victim status?

Well, that could be completely wrong, of course.

If two timelines are on track though, it'd mean that we haven't seen a heckuva lot of 'current' Dolores. I'd have to go back and look at the pilot, but she said "these violent delights have violent ends" to Maeve, right? That would mean that's current Dolores...and that maybe she's up to something?

Interesting to note that line is from Romeo and Juliet. I don't think that's truly meaningful, but if you wanted to stretch it a little you could say there could be an R&J parallel with William and Dolores.

Current Dolores dug the gun out of the dirt and is retracing the path of her previous adventures towards the Maze. Which, just happens to be where Teddy, the love of her "current" life, is heading with the Man in Black, who may happen to have been her frist true love. She's becoming self aware now, and likely capable of over riding the safety protocols, to use her gun.

I have a feeling that eventually she'll emerge as the white hat host that eventually faces off against Maeve's Black Hat incarnation.

I know it was a fan-fave theory, and I should have expected it (and it was like a light going on over my head when he didn't see the door), but I was blown away by the twist with Bernard.

Can't wait to see what the last few episodes of this season have in store. Given that, while they planned and filmed season one, there was no guarantee that there'd be a season two, I wonder what sort of an ending we'll get. Will it feel "done", or will enough be left open that they can continue the storylines? Or will they pick up new storylines for Season two?

So good!

Damn you Ford, Damn you.

Well...

 Yodhrin wrote:
Well...

Spoiler:

]...eh, I'd be wary of reading too much into Bernard's "death", the fact he's a Host means his demise only has to be final if the writers want it to be, they need only reveal his nature and location to another character who would be sympathetic/have something to gain from his return and they could use the park machinery to restore him as they restore all the other Hosts that get shot, stabbed, rent limb from limb etc.

I mean, we don't even really see him shoot himself, or how he shoots himself - he could have overcome Ford's will at the last moment, fired just to the side and collapsed with the effort. If they'd wanted it to be definitive, we'd have seen it up-close, or at least they would have had some gore spatter the window. Unless they just forgot that the audience have seen Hosts come back from horrifying "deaths" before, but I doubt that.

So, Ok, I think I know what the final narrative might be.

I have a big problem now.

I didn't buy the B = A theory, and was wrong, but I had good reason not to buy it, and that hasn't been explained away, and its confirmation has created an enormous plot hole.

So a major theory is confirmed as to which apparent humans are not. I will admit I didn't read the signs myself, but then I didn't really pay much attention. I tend to place my mind in neutral when watching most SF nowadays. However it made sense, a lot of the staff could be hosts and some are directly confirmed as such, it would probably cut costs to some extent to automate. I didnt go looking for the androids because show like this often start well with a well drawn out first series but then pull a fast one and leave plot loose ends or leave out blanks to be filled in later that never get filled in. Battlestar Galactica burned my fingers big on this, excellent first series, but the cylon master plan plot thread didnt materialise, and the final five made as little sense.

However when I heard that....

I felt the same way, Orlanth, but I think it works because in the most recent of the timelines in the show, they made it clear that there's almost nothing known about Arnold, no images, nothing. And in the earliest of the timelines, when Ford and Arnold were building the camp (the timeline we see very little of), they were doing so alone or almost alone.

Even though they said that he's completely "disappeared", it just seems unbelievably unlikely that someone with the skill, intelligence and knowledge of Arnold would disappear like that when he died.

But I'm loving the show so much, I'm willing to suspend disbelief to see what next week holds in store... I sure do hope they explain this one!

I dont buy that. We have had reclusive tycoons before, Howard Hughes for instance, who were very private and not alot known about them. But we know what they looked like. they would have to sign tax records have some sorts of meetings and Arnold was known in the community at least by reputation, and Bernard appeared shortly after. Too many people would in a position to make comparisons.

 Orlanth wrote:
I dont buy that.

Yes but that doesn't mean you are right, just that you are creating your own metafiction.

What's that? Spoilers ahead?

I was starting to buy into the theory that William = young man in black.. but then when he barged in on Dolores in the church.. that has me thinking they're different people now. Plus Harris doesn't have a big mole.. though I guess he would be rich enough to have it removed?

I was kinda thinking maybe Ford wants to kill everyone too.. if they go that route I was thinking they might be going for a twist, he's coming off as evil and crazy, but in reality trying to prevent the military from taking over his androids who he can't stop from becoming self aware, or something like that. But then, yeah, if the park has the tech, I'm sure the government does too anyway.

 Necros wrote:
but then when he barged in on Dolores in the church..

In that scene they showed Delores in different outfits seeing different things. Just as Bernard has 'awoken' before and done/said the same things we may be seeing same event repeating itself at different points in time. A closed loop, as it were. She keeps getting on the edge of awareness and finds the church over and over only to be reset, though my guess is that something different is going to happen this time and it may be Maeve that is the catalyst.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Necros wrote:
but then when he barged in on Dolores in the church..

In that scene they showed Delores in different outfits seeing different things. Just as Bernard has 'awoken' before and done/said the same things we may be seeing same event repeating itself at different points in time. A closed loop, as it were. She keeps getting on the edge of awareness and finds the church over and over only to be reset, though my guess is that something different is going to happen this time and it may be Maeve that is the catalyst.

Yeah, the loop situation has finally been made clear by the knife wound...wounded Dolores is 'past', unwounded is 'present'. The reason the time shifts are so confusing for the hosts (and for us watching at times) is because they experience their memories completely vividly, as it's been explained a few times.

Clearly the hosts -- almost right from the beginning -- have been consciousness-capable, and have had many incidents over the years. Personally, I find that to be kind of a big twist from my original expectations of the show...the story isn't about the moment of singularity, but about how an entire sentient-capable population has been kept down for decades. It does seem that things are different this time, as issues seem more widespread or even spreading (as seen with Hector and the Ghost Nation hosts) instead of being limited to certain individuals.

I took the MiB's dramatic entrance as confirmation that he's William. She calls his name, and look who 'answered'. With the apparent revelation that Dolores went nuts and killed humans and hosts...is Dolores actually Wyatt?

The thing that's murkiest is what Ford's really up to. It seems like he's orchestrated most of the events to this point. Maybe his 'new narrative' is about enticing and getting rid of William/MiB? But why? I understand why William might not like Ford if he had Dolores lobotomized after the two of them had their romance. But I feel like we're missing what Ford's personal beef is with William, beyond just business interests. More and more I'm thinking that Teddy's existence is about Ford sticking it to William by giving Dolores a 'boyfriend' and even giving him William's moment with Dolores and the can. But why is it so personal? And is Maeve part of his plan, not part of his plan but a happy accident, or a potential threat to his plan?

I think Dolores will recognise 'Billy' and he will get what he has always wanted, his GF back.

Also is it possible the MIB is actually Logan? It more fits his character, and he might to over the top easily.

Always possible, but I think Logan waking up to find 20 corpses around William points to the MiB being a changed William.

And on that note, I think William may have lost too much of his humanity and goodness to be appealing to Dolores. If Dolores doesn't become the bad guy, that is. The MiB did say that he's the good guy.

I'm pretty sure Teddy is Wyatt. The hosts' mind protect them from seeing things that would damage their world view.

My prediction is that Teddy, as the sheriff, was instructed to put down all the defective/sentient Hosts.

That's why there is no Wyatt Host revealed so far. Teddy will eventually snap and become Wyatt. That's why what's her name said he's not ready yet, and shanks him, hoping next time he'll be closer to his Wyatt incarnation

Wyatt might not be implemented yet, that story arc is a work in progress.

So, is it confirmed there are two timeline? What with the picture showing up unscathed?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, is it confirmed there are two timeline?

Confirmed? No. Foreshadowed and/or hinted at? Yes.

I'd say it's at least "very strongly suggested" by the wounded/unwounded Dolores device. And it's technically 3 timelines.

35 years ago -- Arnold's conversations with Dolores, training of the hosts at the town with the white church, Dolores goes nuts

30 years ago -- Dolores and William

'Present' -- MiB, Ford and his new narrative, corporate intrigue, etc.

So, I noticed it kinfa stopped past episode two, but what what the point of flies? Flies seemed to play a big part of the show for a bit.
For awhile, i thought the flies where transmitting a computer virus that made hosts go haywire.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, I noticed it kinfa stopped past episode two, but what what the point of flies? Flies seemed to play a big part of the show for a bit.

A) It was said that the flies are the only thing the company didn't make or put into the park.

B) Hosts are designed to be unable to kill living things. Dolores is asked if she would ever hurt a living thing to which she replies no, then is shown killing a fly indicating that something has changed.

 Ahtman wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, I noticed it kinfa stopped past episode two, but what what the point of flies? Flies seemed to play a big part of the show for a bit.

A) It was said that the flies are the only thing the company didn't make or put into the park.

B) Hosts are designed to be unable to kill living things. Dolores is asked if she would ever hurt a living thing to which she replies no, then is shown killing a fly indicating that something has changed.

I think it's not even the act of killing it.

Just before she kills it, she is the first host that seems to be bothered by it. All the other hosts didn't react at all to flies walking on their face or eyes, making it seem like they are just supposed to tolerate living things and not be annoyed by them. The fact that she even was bothered by something living spoke more to me than her reaction to it.

 d-usa wrote:


Just before she kills it, she is the first host that seems to be bothered by it.

Didn't one of the hosts have a seizure or some such when a fly landed on him prior to her killing a fly? Or am I getting the times off?

edit: I guess she was bothered by it like a normal person, rather then becoming inoperable, like the older dude.

 d-usa wrote:
All the other hosts didn't react at all to flies walking on their face or eyes, making it seem like they are just supposed to tolerate living things and not be annoyed by them. The fact that she even was bothered by something living spoke more to me than her reaction to it.

I think you've got that a bit backwards. All the hosts were actually bothered by the flies landing on their faces, probably because whatever programming they have to make them behave like a human wants to swat the flies away...but their 'no kill' programming overrides that, so it puts the host in a strange place, in some cases causing the host to freak out (Delores's original dad, for example).

So yeah, Delores being able to kill the fly (or even attempt to do so, which is what a swat is) was a big deal showing that she had definitely changed from her standard 'no kill' programming.

I don't even think they recognized the flies as a nuisance, let alone being bothered by them.

They had lots of non-lethal options of dealing with them, they could have twitches, they could have swatted them away, they could have shaken their heads.

But while their programming let them punch humans and shoot them, only to realize they wouldn't die, it didn't even seem to let them recognize a fly as enough of a nuisance to blink when it walks across their eyeball.

No kill programming might not apply to flies.

Look at it this way. If the programing is hardset a group of hosts will be interrupted in their travels if ants cross their path as walking on the ants might cause casualties. Ants may well be below the parameters set for killing fo that reason.

Secondly people swat flies as part of daily routine, they could shoo them away, but they also swat them. Swatting a fly that lands on your face deepens immersion.

Third animal rights do not normally apply to flies, it makes sense that an animal friendly AI might not extend that low for cultural reasons. Even hardcore vegans today oftimes still use extermination products for lower order animals. i.e. use anti-baterial agents through to fly spray but not rat poison.

Well, there might not be any ants in there. The question she was asked "have you ever killed a living thing", which she denied. And then she killed the fly.

Yeah, the whole point there was that 1) she can kill, and 2) she can lie.

 gorgon wrote:
Yeah, the whole point there was that 1) she can kill, and 2) she can lie.

Evidently, but there is wiggle room for a red herring.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
Well, there might not be any ants in there. The question she was asked "have you ever killed a living thing", which she denied. And then she killed the fly.

Very unlikely that the park is ant free unless ants are somehow extinct and will have ant equivalent creatures that hosts might detect and yet casually crush anyway.

 Orlanth wrote:
Very unlikely that the park is ant free

You seem to be conflating fiction and documentary. They have specifically mentioned flies thus they are part of the narrative. Chekhov's Gun and all that.

I am really liking forward to the final episode of the series. I thought that episode nine brought together a lot of threads but there are still a lot of questions to be answered.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
I am really liking forward to the final episode of the series. I thought that episode nine brought together a lot of threads but there are still a lot of questions to be answered.

Spoiler:

Will that terrible acting Brit meet an appropriately grizzly end?

Narratives guy is my favorite character.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Necros wrote:
but then when he barged in on Dolores in the church..

In that scene they showed Delores in different outfits seeing different things. Just as Bernard has 'awoken' before and done/said the same things we may be seeing same event repeating itself at different points in time. A closed loop, as it were. She keeps getting on the edge of awareness and finds the church over and over only to be reset, though my guess is that something different is going to happen this time and it may be Maeve that is the catalyst.

problem is in the show when

right now i'm thinking there is only one timeline with flashbacks.

I don't recall a scene where one of those two say that it was opened 30 years ago (others have said that though) but they did say that the park was hemorrhaging money and that their company is looking at getting involved.

 Ahtman wrote:
I don't recall a scene where one of those two say that it was opened 30 years ago (others have said that though) but they did say that the park was hemorrhaging money and that their company is looking at getting involved.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Logan and William never say that.

The only time there is talk about the "critical failure," it's done by characters (Bernard says it, I believe) assumed to be in the "present" timeline.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Very unlikely that the park is ant free

You seem to be conflating fiction and documentary. They have specifically mentioned flies thus they are part of the narrative. Chekhov's Gun and all that.

I have no choice but to accept that. It is likely that we can by logical discourse well exceed the bounds of what the script writers thought of.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Narratives guy is my favorite character.

Gods why! He is just a minion, he isn't a villain per se, or a hero or even anything more than a background colour character and an irritating one at that. I can see the value be brings to the show, he is a fly in the ointment and a failed foil for Ford and other staff characters who have more to offer; but a choice for fav character goes beyond me. Especially with the quality of acting talent and characters on offer.
The one thing I can say for him is that he is random, and as he isn't being sacked for being random we can expect more randomness from him.

That being said one need not justify a favourite, and I have none of my own, perhaps Ford because of the gravitas Anthony Hopkins brings with every scene, perhaps Bernard, Elsie, Billy or Dolores as those are the four I do/did root for; I am uncomfortable with the MIB, but that intentional and he is awesome.

 Ahtman wrote:
I don't recall a scene where one of those two say that it was opened 30 years ago (others have said that though) but they did say that the park was hemorrhaging money and that their company is looking at getting involved.

actually it was in that scene where William's friend mentions it, furthermore the Man in Black when telling his story mentions maeve (in her old storyline) has having a spark of humanity, yet makes no mention of Delores as having a spark of humanity, and yet William has noticed it.

Edit: Remembered who was writing and felt silly for responding.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:
actually it was in that scene where William's friend mentions it

Which episode? I can go back and watch that scene and there are several scenes between those two.

 Ahtman wrote:

Asterios wrote:
actually it was in that scene where William's friend mentions it

Which episode? I can go back and watch that scene and there are several scenes between those two.

the part where he mentions the park is hemorrhaging money, if there is a time lapse it might be as little as 5 years.

Well how am I going to edit out the part responding to Orlanth when you reply to the whole thing showing all parts of a conversation?

 Ahtman wrote:
Well how am I going to edit out the part responding to Orlanth when you reply to the whole thing showing all parts of a conversation? XD

better ?

Watching episode 9 - good so far.

Lots of intersting / confusing stuff - still love elements are cleverly based around our convenions in online rpgs t Nice to see Taluleah Riley again

What an absolute gak security team. Did they even fire their weapons?

nice finale.. my only thing was, if there were rogue murderous robots on the rampage I think that entire place would have been totally shut down, gala event, train and all.

I liked the Marvel ending though, wasn't expecting it. If you didn't watch it yet, make sure you stay till the end of the credits

The Samurai and the woman speaking Chinese over the intercom hint that there is something more than just the area we have seen. When asked what the place was Felix said "It's complicated".

 Ahtman wrote:
The Samurai and the woman speaking Chinese over the intercom hint that there is something more than just the area we have seen. When asked what the place was Felix said "It's complicated".

I really really liked the finale. I have some theories on the Maeve scenes.



Looking back on the season, there was a lot of foreshadowing on the big reveal. One of the main ones is Logan telling William to go black hat with him. I want to go back and rewatch it all and see how much of it I can catch.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Looking back on the season, there was a lot of foreshadowing on the big reveal. One of the main ones is Logan telling William to go black hat with him. I want to go back and rewatch it all and see how much of it I can catch.

In an opinion piece I read recently, the author rebuffed all of the complaining others have been doing about how "the internet ruined the show" with the constant digging to find all the "hidden secrets" by saying that they weren't really hidden or even secrets, the writers pretty much laid everything out for anyone paying the least amount of attention to figure out. I very much agree with this idea because all of the "twists" were blatantly obvious (save for the big reveal about Ford in the finale) and that was okay because the payoff was worth it.

I kinda hope we'll get to see more other worlds in future seasons. Or what if... season 2 won't be Westworld, it will be Samauri World, and each season will be set in a different world, but continuing the internal stories that go on behind the scenes. Could even use a lot of the same actors, since they're robots and copies could be used in different parks?

 Necros wrote:
I kinda hope we'll get to see more other worlds in future seasons. Or what if... season 2 won't be Westworld, it will be Samauri World, and each season will be set in a different world, but continuing the internal stories that go on behind the scenes. Could even use a lot of the same actors, since they're robots and copies could be used in different parks?

so HBO's version of American Horror Story.

Yeah, but with boobs and wieners

 Necros wrote:
Yeah, but with boobs and wieners

so American Horror Story meets Game of Thrones and Terminator ?

 Necros wrote:
Yeah, but with boobs and wieners

sooo Spartacus

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Necros wrote:
Yeah, but with boobs and wieners

sooo Spartacus

nah that will be Gladiator world and there was a Future world too, think there was only the 4 worlds West, Samurai, Gladiator and Future?

Well, I was pretty happy with it. I wasn't sure how they've leave it open for season 2 since things seemed headed toward an apocalyptic ending, but they managed to do both.

Looking back at the season overall, I really enjoyed that it left actual, meaningful bread crumbs for us. It was more like a traditional mystery story than a new-fangled "revelations" story where they barrage you with meaningless information for Reddit users to spin their wheels over, but nothing ultimately ties together, and the conclusion comes from out of nowhere.

The show really rewarded those who played close attention to the dialogue. If anyone decides to give it a second watch, I recommend watching it with subtitles on. I think it was the MiB's discussion with Charlotte in the park that really got me thinking that Maeve wasn't operating as independently as she thought.

And Maeve's decision was an interesting twist. Her arrival in the world of humanity might have ultimately been disastrous for humans, yet it was her very human emotions that led her to rebel against her programming and return to the park. And now, in interesting reversal of some discussion we had earlier, it's looking like Maeve is the more reasonable one of the two fully awakened hosts. Wyatt-Dolores is kind of a monster.

Lots I could talk about, but I'd rather not turn this post into a novel.

Oh...I did want to add that the music throughout the season was top-notch, and very specifically chosen. As a Radiohead fan, I easily picked up on this ep using 'Exit Music for a Film' at the end. 'Fake Plastic Trees' was also heard earlier in the season.

 gorgon wrote:
As a Radiohead fan, I easily picked up on this ep using 'Exit Music for a Film' at the end.

I recognized it as well and seemed to fit the moment. FOr those who aren't as familiar with it:




Some of the lyrics:

Wake
From your sleep
The drying of
Your tears
Today
We escape
We escape

Pack
And get dressed
Before your father hears us
Before
All hell
Breaks loose

 Necros wrote:
I kinda hope we'll get to see more other worlds in future seasons. Or what if... season 2 won't be Westworld, it will be Samauri World, and each season will be set in a different world, but continuing the internal stories that go on behind the scenes. Could even use a lot of the same actors, since they're robots and copies could be used in different parks?

Well, the paper says "Park 1" we do not know where or what park 1 is. For all we know, Westworld was the first park to use the new types of hosts.
I also never call an ending out that easily, but it was awesome that I did.

 Ahtman wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
As a Radiohead fan, I easily picked up on this ep using 'Exit Music for a Film' at the end.

I recognized it as well and seemed to fit the moment. FOr those who aren't as familiar with it:

Some of the lyrics:

Wake
From your sleep
The drying of
Your tears
Today
We escape
We escape

Pack
And get dressed
Before your father hears us
Before
All hell
Breaks loose

"I hope that you choke" might be a good summary for Ford's attitude toward the board and possibly humanity in general at the end.

 nels1031 wrote:
What an absolute gak security team. Did they even fire their weapons?

The finale was good, but Maeve's storyline was one that bugged me the most. It just seemed so implausible, and jeez, that security team was seriously lame. They literally just walked up to the hosts, who are carrying modern nasty firearms and have been firing them so everyone can hear... And let themselves get shot. From her awakening and convincing Felix to help her, all the way to the firefight filled escape, I felt her story was the weakest of the lot. I wish they'd just spent a little more time to tighten it up some.

Really curious to hear where they go with this. Apparently, they've got something like five more seasons planned. Can they really keep it interesting for five seasons? I'll definitely be along for the ride for a while.

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:In an opinion piece I read recently, the author rebuffed all of the complaining others have been doing about how "the internet ruined the show" with the constant digging to find all the "hidden secrets" by saying that they weren't really hidden or even secrets, the writers pretty much laid everything out for anyone paying the least amount of attention to figure out.

I blame Lost. The people who are trying to reproduce that experience would do well to remember that Lost swiftly became incomprehensible gibberish.

nels1031 wrote:What an absolute gak security team. Did they even fire their weapons?

That really, really bothered me. As the episode went on they got more and more dramatic. By the end, they were literally screaming "freeze" at a woman (covered in the blood of all the previous officers) hacking her arm off so she could come kill them as well. At first, I accepted that maybe the hosts are expensive so they are hesitant to damage them, but as it went on and on it became so absurd as to break immersion in the show.

Ahtman wrote:The Samurai and the woman speaking Chinese over the intercom hint that there is something more than just the area we have seen. When asked what the place was Felix said "It's complicated".

I'm not sure if this already got discussed or not because I'm only sort of following this thread, but in the original Westworld movie, the Western setting was only a part of the overall park: it also had a medieval setting and I think an ancient roman one (I saw it awhile ago so I might be misremembering).

 Ouze wrote:

That really, really bothered me. As the episode went on they got more and more dramatic. By the end, they were literally screaming "freeze" at a woman (covered in the blood of all the previous officers) hacking her arm off so she could come kill them as well. At first, I accepted that maybe the hosts are expensive so they are hesitant to damage them, but as it went on and on it became so absurd as to break immersion in the show.

Pretty much how I took it as well. Would've been so much cooler if it was a harder fight to get out. All that talk of needing an army and such and Maeve just walks right out. A few more host recruits to be sacrificed in a storm of gunfire or just harder gunfighting would've done wonders to notch up the tension.

 Ouze wrote:
I'm not sure if this already got discussed or not because I'm only sort of following this thread, but in the original Westworld movie, the Western setting was only a part of the overall park: it also had a medieval setting and I think an ancient roman one (I saw it awhile ago so I might be misremembering).

IIRC the sequel was Future World.

Gotta jump onboard the bandwagon and say that the security teams' complete incompetence was the only thing marring an otherwise stellar finale. There simply isn't any logical way to even try to explain it away (and I've tried in my head to come up with some wild theories to explain it).

What's incredibly baffling about it is that they had all the tools in the story to make the whole thing completely believable if they had written and shot it differently. Maeve's ability to completely tweak their attributes meant that there's no reason they couldn't and shouldn't have been totally superior. They should have had near super-human reflexes, aim, senses and an almost complete aversion to any pain inflicted upon them. Yet none of those things were highlighted at all in the fight scenes.

At the very least they should have taken tons of bullets to the body and fight through it (since they don't feel the pain). They also could have shot it so that their movements seemed faster than normal humans. They also could have done some combat tricks like looking around a corner to briefly see the security teams and then using their perfect memory and superior power to compute to then jump out from around the corner and kill all the humans before they had a chance to react.

But instead they just had all the security teams wander around like imbeciles so that they could be easily ambushed from behind, or when they did get the drop on the hosts, they simply would not fire (or if they did, fire like stormtroopers).

However, even with that aggravation, it did little to dampen how much overall I loved the finale and the entire season in general.

While so many of the shows 'secrets' were figured out by the internet so early on, the show was so well crafted that it was clear that those secrets were purposely not that well hidden and it was seeing how the characters reacted to those secrets being revealed that was the real joy. In particular, the one secret that I didn't see guessed (that Ford was really pro-host) ended up being something totally foreshadowed by so much of what he said throughout the season. What I thought was him gloating to the hosts about how not to trust humans and all the flaws with human behaviors turned out not to be gloating at all, but his true feelings of dismay towards humanity...it was all there to see for so long, but at the same time hidden. Great stuff!

I did really, really enjoy the show and I can't wait until next season.

 Ouze wrote:
I did really, really enjoy the show and I can't wait until next season.

Well put on your big boy pants and settle in as season 2 won't be ready until 2018 apparently.

Westworld just wrapped up its thrilling first season, but there’s some bad news for anyone excited to get back into the park for more cowboy adventures, cameos from Grand Theft Auto V’s Steven Ogg, and unprecedented levels of nudity: It’s going to be a long time before the show’s second season hits HBO. Speaking with Variety, Westworld creators Jon Nolan and Lisa Joy said that new episodes won’t premiere until 2018, explaining that the “complexity of trying to write and produce the show at the same time” combined with the fact that both of them also work in the movie industry means that they won’t have the time to get it done any sooner than that.

Elsewhere in the chat, Nolan refuses to admit that the “SW” logo seen in the finale stands for “Samurai World” (even though it obviously does), and he compares the hosts’ nonlinear memories to Christopher Nolan’s Memento. Sadly, he and Joy do not give any tips for passing the time until Westworld comes back—which might not even happen until after Game Of Thrones has finished, which is just crazy.

Yea, Maeve even set their pain tolerance to way high, so they could've easily taken a few bullets (I don't believe they were hit once, were they?). I get that initially maybe they didn't want to hit Felix, like he was a "hostage" or something, but they could've played that up a bit... Like having the security force yell something about watching out for the human...

But all in all, it felt like the person in charge of the Maeve storyline was not careful or even terribly thoughtful in how that story arc went.


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 Ahtman wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I did really, really enjoy the show and I can't wait until next season.

Well put on your big boy pants and settle in as season 2 won't be ready until 2018 apparently.

Westworld just wrapped up its thrilling first season, but there’s some bad news for anyone excited to get back into the park for more cowboy adventures, cameos from Grand Theft Auto V’s Steven Ogg, and unprecedented levels of nudity: It’s going to be a long time before the show’s second season hits HBO. Speaking with Variety, Westworld creators Jon Nolan and Lisa Joy said that new episodes won’t premiere until 2018, explaining that the “complexity of trying to write and produce the show at the same time” combined with the fact that both of them also work in the movie industry means that they won’t have the time to get it done any sooner than that.

Elsewhere in the chat, Nolan refuses to admit that the “SW” logo seen in the finale stands for “Samurai World” (even though it obviously does), and he compares the hosts’ nonlinear memories to Christopher Nolan’s Memento. Sadly, he and Joy do not give any tips for passing the time until Westworld comes back—which might not even happen until after Game Of Thrones has finished, which is just crazy.

DANG NAMMIT!

I DON'T EVEN OWN BIG BOY PANTS!!!

For me, it was weird with the guard, first that the robots could hit with such accuracy and no recoil.
And, when it is showed that hosts can take alot of punishment, why not shoot them?Especially when was was trapped.
What I like now though is that we dont know what is and isnt a narrative.

Maybe the guards were robots and programmed to be dumb?

Amateur security makes more sense than it looked. People can be that incompetent. Also I dont beleive all the security are that incompetent, the control office staff looked like they had their heads on properly, hence why they got locked in a room. The ones with the misfortune to be facing off with the escaping androids, but they are corporate security not commandos. Delos probably got a bunch of people who failed selection to join the army, gave them a uniform and a nifty gun and a two day course on gun safety. Then Delos said. "We have fifty armed guards in case things go wrong, reduce our insurance premiums please."

Put it this way, the hosts cant harm people, guns are only necessary because politicians insisted they had them because the hosts were armed. The teams sent in didn't even have time to panic and rout, they likely only knew where the escaped androids were, not that they were armed or had wiped out prior teams. In the post credit sequence it made sense t repeatedly tell the host to deactivate because in the panicky human programming this is what a frightened security guard well out of his depth and in deep shock is thinking.

The security teams were obviously civilian, they had no military air about them at all, few actually got to shoot as they were being slowed by combat paralysis. Nobody who envisioned this type of threat were about, the one or two staff who looked like they could handle themselves or lead others were locked in with no comms. No incident of its kind had occurred in decades and everyone was complacent and woefully undertrained. The only real threats to the park came from guests, and security would likely just alert local police authorities of any real incident.

If this explanation is not good enough for you, perhaps the androids went full Matrix on the guards, but it proved too expensive to film. The combat scenes from the Matrix trilogy were very expensive after all, and this is a TV episode, not a major movie.

 Orlanth wrote:
Amateur security makes more sense than it looked. People can be that incompetent. Also I dont beleive all the security are that incompetent, the control office staff looked like they had their heads on properly, hence why they got locked in a room. The ones with the misfortune to be facing off with the escaping androids, but they are corporate security not commandos. Delos probably got a bunch of people who failed selection to join the army, gave them a uniform and a nifty gun and a two day course on gun safety. Then Delos said. "We have fifty armed guards in case things go wrong, reduce our insurance premiums please."

This. They were scared security guards who never dealt with anything like that before, and NEVER thought they'd have to deal with machines becoming sentient and homicidal.

Are we to assume the head of security died to the Indians? They never actually showed his death did they or had anyone comment on him being missing?

Also we never found out who Ford was making in his basement or if it was anyone of significance other than the implication that he had been making his own hosts.

 AduroT wrote:
Are we to assume the head of security died to the Indians? They never actually showed his death did they or had anyone comment on him being missing?

Also we never found out who Ford was making in his basement or if it was anyone of significance other than the implication that he had been making his own hosts.

It also wasn't 100% confirmed what happened to Elsie. Bernard probably killed her. But no one found the body, right? Methinks the two are connected, especially since those two characters were connected during the season. Could Elsie be behind the Ghost Nation?

And who monkeyed with Maeve's programming? It was mostly likely Ford as part of his plan to 'free' the hosts, but it's not 100% confirmed either.

There is teaser on the delis site that shows she might be alive, Elsie that is. You have to translate some code


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 AduroT wrote:
Are we to assume the head of security died to the Indians? They never actually showed his death did they or had anyone comment on him being missing?

Also we never found out who Ford was making in his basement or if it was anyone of significance other than the implication that he had been making his own hosts.

It could be a Ford host. So either Ford put his host up to die, or has his consciousness uploaded. Remember his last line? About becoming music.

Okay you guys have helped to convince me that inept security is a feasible idea, so thanks for that!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
There is teaser on the delis site that shows she might be alive, Elsie that is. You have to translate some code

It could be a Ford host. So either Ford put his host up to die, or has his consciousness uploaded. Remember his last line? About becoming music.

There are definitely plenty of mysteries left over to explore for season 2. The showrunners have said that Ford definitely died in the finale, so if he is going to come back in season 2, It seems likely that it would be as a host. And like you mentioned, his line about 'becoming music' only makes sense if he made a host of himself to live on (not made a host of himself to die in his place). Although it could also just mean that he expects that his work (the hosts) living on is akin to a musicians music living on after their death...so I don't think Ford coming back as a host is a forgone conclusion in the least.

But exactly what happened to Elsie and Stubbs the security guy definitely still needs to be resolved, as does whether or not Delores's dad ever made it out of the park with all the host code in his head. Plus, we have to find out who exactly died at the hands of the host massacre at the gala. It seems a sure thing that the MiB/William is going to survive the massacre because his dream of the hosts being equal players is finally a reality (and I'm sure there will be some fun to be had out of that).

Yep, can't wait for 2018!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It could be a Ford host. So either Ford put his host up to die, or has his consciousness uploaded. Remember his last line? About becoming music.

He most likely didn't let a host version of himself that the bullet from Delores because that would severely undercut his final turn to Arnold's side (the park is for the hosts). If it was indeed a robot version of himself, it's more likely built so he could upload his consciousness and live on as host.

If, of course, it is a host version of Ford. I think there's an equally decent chance that it was not.

 gorgon wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Are we to assume the head of security died to the Indians? They never actually showed his death did they or had anyone comment on him being missing?

Also we never found out who Ford was making in his basement or if it was anyone of significance other than the implication that he had been making his own hosts.

It also wasn't 100% confirmed what happened to Elsie. Bernard probably killed her. But no one found the body, right? Methinks the two are connected, especially since those two characters were connected during the season. Could Elsie be behind the Ghost Nation?

And who monkeyed with Maeve's programming? It was mostly likely Ford as part of his plan to 'free' the hosts, but it's not 100% confirmed either.

The head of security was/is Ashley Stubbs. He looked competent in everything he did, he was alerted through Bernards supposed disinterest in Theresa's death and kept a firm tab on security from the hub. It makes sense that even though the security staff is amateur and untrained that Delos employ a token military officer with some degree of competence to lead them. Maeve, being upgraded smart isolated him before making her escape bid. It was the first overt act she did in the escape after activating some androids to ambush, so evidently it was an early plan. The ops room was sealed early too isolating the remaining competents.




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 yakface wrote:

Okay you guys have helped to convince me that inept security is a feasible idea, so thanks for that!

You're welcome.

This should help: evidently some Delos security staff were competent, and Maeve (and whoever from the inside was behind her) neutralised them early. In a way it was a betrayal, so Ashley's competence was bypassed, doubt Maeve would have left a dangerous man like him to chance, but had a poorer assessment of the rest of security, as we saw.

 yakface wrote:

The showrunners have said that Ford definitely died in the finale, so if he is going to come back in season 2, It seems likely that it would be as a host.

Anthony Hopkins is a veteran veteran actor, it pays not to tax him too much. Ed Harris has somewhat better health and can stick around for several seasons.
Ford is likely to return only for flashback scenes, and Hopkins will be a guest character. I saw this coming, and didnt expect the actor to return in a major role,this prediction was solely due to Hopkins being too old for a heavy schedule, and because the gravitas he brought had to come to an end for the other characters to grow. I had no firm idea how this was going to be achieved though.

 yakface wrote:

But exactly what happened to Elsie and Stubbs the security guy definitely still needs to be resolved, as does whether or not Delores's dad ever made it out of the park with all the host code in his head.

Elsie should be dead, it would require some fancy plotwork to bring her back. I have suspected that the clone being manufactured in the secret lab where (and when) Theresa was killed was a replication of Elsie. Ford said she was on holiday, i suspect he wanted to maintain the charade as his exit was a delayed reaction to events which would have been put off is the board had not ousted him.
Therefore I think the actress if not the exact character will return. Bernard and Elsie may well be modded to help pass off as human, no tracking device, no cortex bomb.

 yakface wrote:

Plus, we have to find out who exactly died at the hands of the host massacre at the gala. It seems a sure thing that the MiB/William is going to survive the massacre because his dream of the hosts being equal players is finally a reality (and I'm sure there will be some fun to be had out of that).

Plotwriter guy survived, he wasn't there. The MIB was hit exactly as much as the androids wanted him hit. After shooting him and not killing him the shooter didn't aim again. I think Delores has put him on a no kill list, for the sake of her memory of Billy. I think she wants to redeem him, and I think eventually she will.

Not since Schwarzenegger has a naked robotic killing machine been as scary as Armistice.

I have never really invested any time in a big ticket HBO drama but I loved Westworld, just a shame that it will take so long for it to come back.

Yeah I think Old William will be fine. I also think Hopkins won't be around much in future seasons, just flashbacks here and there. I had wondered if maybe he was a host all along though.. maybe real ford doesn't want droids to have consciousness but host ford does and is the one that set them free, while real ford is incapacitated somewhere?

I also doubt Elsie and Ashley will be back. As noted, it would take some fancy plotlines (that would likely be very unsatisfying) to bring 'em back - it makes more sense for them to have been killed, even if they are all coy about showing it.

Man. 2018. I think they ended Season one about as well as they could have. Quite cleverly too, if for some reason they didn't get picked up, it was good closure for a one-season, full story arc.

I can't wait to see where this goes.

My thing is that, up until Armistice was captured, it could make sense they where failing. But If I had a robot captured in a wall, I would not be yelling at it to cease motor functions, I have my own off button, made off bullets.

Ashley may or may not be dead, but if they wanted to dispose of the character upon his meeting the Ghost Nation, they would have shot a 2-second sequence of an arrow entering his heart and him keeling over.

The fact that we don't see his fate means there's more story there, whatever form that may take and whatever his fate is.

There's a good chance that Elsie is dead. However, the director also could have shot Bernard's memories to make her death clear (a neck snap, for instance). The director didn't.

Also, we'd be left to believe that Bernard and Ford treated Elsie differently than Theresa, whose death was made to look like an accident. Ford would be motivated to cover up Elsie's murder like they did with Theresa, rather than have Bernard hide the body and risk her absence drawing attention to something going on in the park.

The thing is, both Elsie and Stubbs had to be kept quiet for Ford to be able to pull off his grand reveal of the new narrative. While he certainly seemed to have no issue killing off Theresa (and implied that he's done it before for other stooges of the board sent to curtail him), I think that's a whole world different than killing innocent employees who were just doing their job.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Elsie and Stubbs were only missing a few days in 'real time' before the finale's massacre occurred. So I think we'll find in season 2 that those two characters were put into captivity somewhere until Ford's narrative could be enacted. But then again, Ford obviously has complete disdain for humans (I'm sure some of those people that will be massacred at the gala are completely innocent as well), so maybe not!

Elsie - we saw her being killed, didnt confirm the death. So if host-Elsie arrives there will be a question mark over her.

Stubbs - He had a gun and knew how to use it, he likely had good close combat skills. I think he could well be out there. It could be host-Elsie's intro to rescue him.

Maeve - Starting to go beyond her programming, or programmed to have an ambiguous escape (so she doesnt need to actually escape to achieve programmed goals)?

MIB - How does he take so many rounds in the chest and get up again? Is he cybernetically augmented?

My answer to the bad security question is: Hosts, her "successful" escape is part of her story line.

She needed to get to the train to get to the end of her "programing" to make the choice of either continue or return.

 Orlanth wrote:
Elsie - we saw her being killed, didnt confirm the death. So if host-Elsie arrives there will be a question mark over her.

Stubbs - He had a gun and knew how to use it, he likely had good close combat skills. I think he could well be out there. It could be host-Elsie's intro to rescue him.

Maeve - Starting to go beyond her programming, or programmed to have an ambiguous escape (so she doesnt need to actually escape to achieve programmed goals)?

MIB - How does he take so many rounds in the chest and get up again? Is he cybernetically augmented?

We never saw Elsie die. We saw her grabbed around the neck by who we found out to be Bernard, but we never saw her actually killed.

As for the MiB taking rounds to the chest, I presume you're talking about in the finale when Teddy rides up and shoots him? If so, Teddy is just shooting him the same way Teddy shot him in the first episode...with rounds designed to not be able to hurt guests. I guess the fact that Delores had just finished kicking the crap out of him put him in a weakened state where the dummy rounds could knock him on his ass.

 yakface wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

MIB - How does he take so many rounds in the chest and get up again? Is he cybernetically augmented?

We never saw Elsie die. We saw her grabbed around the neck by who we found out to be Bernard, but we never saw her actually killed.

As for the MiB taking rounds to the chest, I presume you're talking about in the finale when Teddy rides up and shoots him? If so, Teddy is just shooting him the same way Teddy shot him in the first episode...with rounds designed to not be able to hurt guests. I guess the fact that Delores had just finished kicking the crap out of him put him in a weakened state where the dummy rounds could knock him on his ass.

Yeah, to paraphrase from memory when young William talks to Logan after getting shot for the first time (which knocks the wind out of him, but I don't remember if it actually knocks him down):

William: "I thought you said they couldn't hurt us?"
Logan: "No, I said they couldn't kill us."

Combined with the beating it is no surprise that he was down for the count for a while. He had a rough couple days there.

Ok, forgot about that.

http://themuse.jezebel.com/westworlds-ominous-piano-covers-have-finally-been-relea-1789823997?utm_campaign=socialflow_jezebel_facebook&utm_source=jezebel_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

What could be more fitting in this bleak December month than player-piano covers of popular alt-rock songs that connect the untamed Wild West to our future as automatons on a quest to gain consciousness? Westworld’s soundtrack is finally getting a proper release, and I always wondered what the hell “Black Hole Son” was going on about. It’s God, baby!

The full soundtrack includes 34 songs, which is especially helpful if you’ve been trying to sleuth why that background melody sounded so familiar but didn’t quite scan—for me it was Nine Inch Nails’s “Something I Can Never Have” and knowing that is like scratching an itch. Additionally, there is an epic Morricone-style version of “Paint It Black” by the Rolling Stones, complete with racing horse hooves, and the theme song scored by Ramin Djawadi, whose style you may recognize from the Game of Thrones theme, too. Djawadi is outchea. Sample a few songs below and grab the full soundtrack here.