I'm slated to get my Conan KS delivery today - assuming the mini quality is acceptable, I'm definitely backing this. That's a great way to do Scylla with the tentacles being separately based. The gods/heroes look pretty boss. One pic of the hydra looks meh, but that may be the paint job/flash.
Finally getting that hydra. Reaper's sold for $15 on their Bones KS. Probably larger, but, for gaming, I figure a hydra's a hydra!
I love the game mechanics. Yes, you have the obligatory dice rolling, but the card activation system is simplicity and genius -- although maybe you miniature wargamers can tell me of other systems that use it. Big dumb monsters get stronger but fewer activation cards in your deck, smaller nimbler units get more activation cards. Your leaders have activation cards that allow you to -- wait for it -- retrieve other activation cards from your deck. So you can pull out those activation cards you want, crush your opponent and -- what? You can't shuffle your discard pile into your draw pile until your opponent does??? Let me rethink my Greek weenie strategy...
Automatically Appended Next Post: WOOVEN dice bag unlocked!
Hell Hound Synchronized Swimming Team unlocked!
And because every hallway needs an odd number of columns...
I hit KS saturation before this so I'll have to patiently watch from the sidelines. I should be getting my Conan stuff soonish too. I got the notice for shipping.
I have watched a few videos of unboxing on the King level and some people are reporting issues with soft details from retail box contents. I'll see how mine look in hand.
I backed as it looks good, but still haven't recieved any of my conan stuff yet (not even a shipping notice). Was hoping to get my stuff and take a gander at quality, gameplay, etc before backing again. Although I heard they were shipping the small pledges first (darn, i was hoping they would ship to those who spent the most $ first). Oh well, patience is a virtue they say.
Nice to see the gameplay is different from conan too. This way one can have two similar yet different themed games that play differently.
I did hear that there would be some crossover from conan too. I'm very interested to hear more about that. Leonidas vs conan??? Sounds like fun!
@Shiro the white wolf - the Conan crossover will be an add-on pack. Not everyone wants it as not everyone plays Conan, and this seemed like the fairest approach.
Hmm... pulled more quotes from the comments than I thought I would...
@Doodlekid00 - I've asked about the colour of the plastics in MB and Conan. The MB plastics will not use the pale plastic used for Conan heroes. As for Conan itself, no decision has been made yet on future reprints. The first batch of retail copies was made at the same time in the same colour as the KS ones.
@Smud - yes, I'm Jake Thornton, game designer, former White Dwarf editor, etc. No, I didn't have anything to do with these rules. To be honest, I'm probably a lot less happy with what happened to DS than you are. here isn't the place to discuss it though.
@Seb_Super - we have a huge background to draw from. Greek myth is enormous.
@Glaxos -
(1) On my to do list as well. Personally I'd rather call him Herakles (and heraklean) but that's only one of a number of naming details we need to check again. Partly this is the confusion of a French designer using Ancient Greek names and then translating it into English. The "Ancient Greek" names used in English and French aren't the same.
(2) I know. This was done before I joined the project. In the game the lambda is used as the symbol of the Art of War cards, which seems not inappropriate.
(3) One of the real issues with the background is that all the characters are noted for a dozen different, and sometimes conflicting things. Others, such as Achilles, are so good at everything that they need a weakness to make them work. There is a veteran Achilles stateliness too (which I never told you about) in which he's not slow.
(4) Can't help you there. I could never get very excited about the details of Greek columnar architecture.
@Alex Draper - The English translation will be as good as I can help to make it. I want an unambiguous rulebook too
@Naaba, the Voice of Valhöll - the bases will be grey plastic for production models. The clear ones were done for the original demos and the studio-painted showcase models.
@Perry Grosshans - the aim is to make the whole game Greek-inspired, so yes, there will be many more Greek units. Ancient Greek Myth is the source for all this, not video games or movies (though they can be fun to play/watch too). The only exception is some of the Troops who are a bit made up to fill in the blanks. I still like the idea of a horde of Giant Spiders hanging round with Arachne. If that wasn't mentioned in Greek myth it was only because they forgot
@LP - the shipping to Canada might be custom friendly. We hope so. At present we haven't finalised which shipper we will use (still in negotiation) and so it depends on that.
@Rob... Snow - Conan goes to retail towards the end of this month. After all the KS pledges have been sent out.
I am torn. The game looks fun, but they have mentioned that if this KS does well, there will be other Pantheons in the future. The viking one, Ragnarok interests me a bit more than this one. Granted that's probably 2 years away (also not for sure), but I have a lot of games to play already. That and I also really want to get KDM at the end of this month and I doubt I can afford both with Christmas coming up. I have thought about selling my Conan Kings pledge once it gets in tomorrow and my copy of The Others Kickstarter, but I have not made up my mind yet.
@Seb_Super - I've been told that there is one scenario where 3 play 1, with the one having a God and the others not.
I was also asked whether narrative campaigns were only 2 player. They vary. Some are only 2 player, some 3-4 player and some 2-4. There is no fixed format - instead each author was told to do whatever made for the most fun and best representation of the story the campaign told.
@Andres - Mythic Battles will not be using the pale plastic like the Heroes in Conan. The models will be in something darker.
@Amarice - AFAIK the card size is standard so that commercially available sleeves will work. We're gamers too, and there's no need to make life harder for ourselves as well as everyone else
@Artur Biesiadowski - the Conan crossover will be an add-on because not everyone will want it. But yes, it's coming. We'll discuss that in detail when it's added.
@Rhino: Keep your Pantheon pledge for now. The two KS overlap, so you can make your decision later!
Well, I don't know anything about the previous game. I did however get my Conan stuff today. Whatever the issue was with soft features, I don't see it. Everything looks fantastic. Quality wise, it's on par with Z:BP.
The mention of the miniatures being made of PVC is very disappointing especially because they seem to acknowledge this by making the spears out of a better plastic.
Absolutionis wrote: The mention of the miniatures being made of PVC is very disappointing especially because they seem to acknowledge this by making the spears out of a better plastic.
It's fine for board game minis. Zombicide, Blood Rage, Conan etc are all fantastic.
MLaw wrote: Well, I don't know anything about the previous game. I did however get my Conan stuff today. Whatever the issue was with soft features, I don't see it. Everything looks fantastic. Quality wise, it's on par with Z:BP.
I think its that the light gray hero figures are slightly translucent so look softer in detail until you get a base coat on them. They arent Mierce quality by any stretch, but pretty damn good for under a buck a dude!
The only issues I ever see with PVC are bendy spears (addressed here) and soft detail on human-scale faces (not a problem with helmeted figures, and fairly easily addressable with head swaps if need be).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Gah. I really like almost everything about the game apart from Achilles. He has a sword from Zelda, armour from World of Warcraft, and a pose from Riverdance. NOOOO
I'd say that if you're looking for higher quality miniatures, boardgame miniatures ain't it. Boardgame miniatures are still game pieces, which means they can't break when fumblefingers plays the game, and boardgamers won't pay for them after a certain price point. Reaper and Dakka forums are good to find the higher quality stuff.
EDIT: Whoops! Forgot to mention GW and CMON's miniatures.
Yep. GW miniatures are primarily for miniature wargaming, and these miniatures are typically higher quality than boardgame miniatures. But miniature wargamers are expected to paint and otherwise treat their miniatures with care, while boardgamers usually don't paint their miniatures and will throw them into the box. Thus, boardgame miniatures have to be durable, but this means softer plastic that doesn't hold details as well as the sometimes more brittle wargaming plastic.
CMON is something of an exception to boardgame plastic in that, afaik, they were in the miniatures business before going into boardgames. Typically, it's the other way around. CMON, of course, stands for "Cool Mini or Not", which certainly suggests their miniature background. I don't think it's hard to say that their projects, which can raise over a million dollars, are successful in part because of their miniatures. However, as the exception, if you want CMON-quality miniatures, your best bet is to back a CMON project. I'm definitely looking forward to their World of Smog KS!
Yeah, I was responding to the idea that people should look around on Dakka for high-end minis. You don't necessarily have to go to boutique suppliers in resin or metal to get the best kit. Feels like GW have finally taken notice of their competition, and really upped their game.
Here's a heads up on the miniature detail -- and why some miniatures may not have as much as others. If you have a mountain of KS plastic like I do, you'll probably end up just painting the gods and monsters, anyway...
@David Smith - I asked about changing Jason's pose and was told it was too late. I think this is a side effect of us doing as much preparation before the KS as we could. While this means that we can be more confident at delivering your game early, it also means that things are further advanced before you get to see (and comment) on them and so are less able to be changed. Pros and cons. I will ask the question, but I expect the same thing will be true here too.
On a side note, and if you will forgive the personal ramble... When I first got involved in the Mythic Battles circus, and saw all the sculpts, I thought that the Troops were a bit poor compared to the amazing Monsters and Gods. Not terrible at all, especially when you can see them in your hand and look at all the crisp detail. Just not up to the same ridiculously high standard. That was my initial impression. Then I played the game. Now this is important: these figures are actually gaming pieces. This, despite the fact that they could happily stand alongside models made for tabletop gaming, and the big guys are miniatures I think painters will want to collect just to paint. Anyway, they're really (amazing) board game pieces. Troops are the most frail of the units on the battlefield in terms of stats and skills. They are mortals that have wandered into a battlefield full of Gods and Monsters, and they are simply outclassed. They die in droves. But Troops can be recalled (resurrected) and return to the battlefield too, giving them a unique ability and balancing their weaker stats. All great game play and fun tactics. In terms of models, this means that the Troop models need to be robust because they are put on the board, move and fight, get taken off, replaced, killed again, replaced, and so on. The models need to survive a lot of handling. Taken in this context, they work perfectly. They are simpler, more robust models, that will survive a lot of repeated use. For example, when we took the first 5 test sets of gaming pieces to Essen, and had them on display for the public to game with and examine in person, not a single model was damaged. I know because I personally checked all 5 sets after the show. I will say that again: not a single model in 5 sets was damaged in 4 days of constant use. I was amazed - I was sure there would be some breakages after continual (sometimes very rough) handling, plus being taken out of their boxes and repacked every day. So my opinion changed. Whilst you could improve on some of the Troop models (and it's not even all of them) in terms of the most beautiful display model you could ever make, I think they serve their purpose brilliantly. I still have a blue-sky imagining of making more rounded and varied (historically accurate - and this is my main reason) models, but I know they would get broken all the time because such models would be way more fragile. They'd also slow the game because I'd not want to grab a handful of them and chuck them in the box as I can with these ones
The risks and challenges read
"Due to the fact that the core box of Mythic Battles: Pantheon is 95% complete as we head into this campaign..."
So let me get this right, they are missing that last 5% in order to get their game into the market? Apologies but I highly doubt that,also seeing what the funding target was. Unless, that number is a lie and they are missing more than five percent (which I don't think is the case), but if that was the truth they are equally not excused.
I honestly don't understand it, the sculpts are ready and look great, the theme looks good, the game I don't know but I have no reason to doubt it is also good. So, if the product is ready to go into retail, why on Earth go into crowdfunding depriving from other projects (which genuinely lack the funds) the opportunity to see the light of day? I'm sorry if I sound snarky/crabby/choleric/insert whatever you like, that is not my intention and it is definitely nothing personal with this company (I absoluetly don't know any of the people who own Monolith or Mythic Games and would perhaps buy the game in retail if reasonably priced, it follows Greek mythology after all!) but the more we study how crowdfunding works the more things we find alarmingly altering its very essence.
If any of the mods find my post inappropriate please move or delete it.
My guess is that Mythic Games are too small to fund the entire production run, and Monolith are also probably not especially well-funded after delivering Conan so late. Even a record-breaking Kickstarter will struggle to support the entire team's salaries for an extra year, as well as all the other expenses of running a business... Plus of course it only takes a slight miscalculation of logistical costs, or an exchange rate change, to wipe out most of one's profits.
Personally I am much more keen to back a game that is 95% designed and sculpted, and just needs the funds to go into production, than a game that promises lots but doesn't even have gameplay nailed down yet, or sculptors booked. So this is a likely buy for me -- even if I am anticipating changing most minis' swords for something more sensible-looking than the chunky videogame nonsense shown here, and even if I have never seen a human make the pose Achilles is in except on the dancefloor.
I personally love Jason's pose. He is one of the best looking g heroes in my opinion. I hope nothing is changed as it all looks good so far (that achilles dancing pose can be affected a bit with some warm water I'm assuming).
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: The risks and challenges read
"Due to the fact that the core box of Mythic Battles: Pantheon is 95% complete as we head into this campaign..."
So let me get this right, they are missing that last 5% in order to get their game into the market? Apologies but I highly doubt that,also seeing what the funding target was. Unless, that number is a lie and they are missing more than five percent (which I don't think is the case), but if that was the truth they are equally not excused.
I honestly don't understand it, the sculpts are ready and look great, the theme looks good, the game I don't know but I have no reason to doubt it is also good. So, if the product is ready to go into retail, why on Earth go into crowdfunding depriving from other projects (which genuinely lack the funds) the opportunity to see the light of day?
Having a single sculpt for all their core stuff ready and having the funding to mass produce sculpts is a different thing all together. Also stretch goals may or may not be pre-made depending on how far things go on funding. Beyond that I take everything they say with a healthy amount of skepticism regarding how far along they are and delivery dates. This is what the Conan kickstarter said when it launched:
Risks and challenges
This isn't our first rodeo. We have been producing games and working with factories in China for some time now. We are familiar with the delays that can unexpectedly pop up, whether they be due to production, shipping or customs.
The estimated delivery date for Conan is October 2015, but please keep in mind that this is an informed guess. Also note that due to logistical restrictions in different regions, some backers may receive their pledge rewards before others. We will be doing our utmost to avoid these situations and, in the unlikely event that we are unable to deliver the game, we will be refunding pledges in full. Due to the fact that Conan is 80% complete as we head into this campaign, and that we have already signed agreements with many of those in charge of production, delivery and distribution, we have no reason to suspect that this eventuality will ever occur.
I got my copy late this October, so a year later than estimated. I'm happy with the product quality and really never expected them to meet that original date, but I don't really expect them to meet their estimated date for Mythic Battles. In fact even trying to deliver a kickstarter in December is generally a terrible idea as shipping delays due to the holidays makes it a nightmare to track packages and you tend to end up with unhappy customers. It also seems that every miniature kickstarter ever has Chinese Factories that "forget" about yearly holidays that significantly delay the production times they promise.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: The risks and challenges read
"Due to the fact that the core box of Mythic Battles: Pantheon is 95% complete as we head into this campaign..."
So let me get this right, they are missing that last 5% in order to get their game into the market? Apologies but I highly doubt that,also seeing what the funding target was. Unless, that number is a lie and they are missing more than five percent (which I don't think is the case), but if that was the truth they are equally not excused.
I honestly don't understand it, the sculpts are ready and look great, the theme looks good, the game I don't know but I have no reason to doubt it is also good. So, if the product is ready to go into retail, why on Earth go into crowdfunding depriving from other projects (which genuinely lack the funds) the opportunity to see the light of day? I'm sorry if I sound snarky/crabby/choleric/insert whatever you like, that is not my intention and it is definitely nothing personal with this company (I absoluetly don't know any of the people who own Monolith or Mythic Games and would perhaps buy the game in retail if reasonably priced, it follows Greek mythology after all!) but the more we study how crowdfunding works the more things we find alarmingly altering its very essence.
If any of the mods find my post inappropriate please move or delete it.
They might have everything 95% ready, but they still need to pay the bills until they start collecting them n those retail orders. Plus they need to start developing their expansions and growing in other directions.
I've read your posts in other threads before along similar lines. I've seen your kickstarters succeed and fail as well. I'm sorry your not getting more from your kickstarters, but other companies have just as much right to run one as you. You have product on the market, so why should you be able to run a Kickstarter under you own reasoning? You can PM me if you'd like to respond so we don't derail this thread anymore with off topic chatter.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Sculpts may well be done but not paid for (similar to what Cthulhu Wars and I think Conan did),
Yep. Monolith may have also paid or taken a loan for the project in the assumption that they could fund whatever amount for it. Johnny Lauck, of MegaMiniatures fame, said that he buys the metal he needs to cast the miniatures and casts during the KS campaign, and uses KS funds to pay back for the metal he bought.
Nowadays, for big boardgame miniature projects, you need a professional-looking campaign with production-level miniatures, not just concept art, to get the big bucks you need for the product. This costs money upfront, and the traditional retail-distributor model will *not* pay you back in the time you need the money to pay back that bank loan, company expenses, or whatever. And you still need the cash for the printer's downpayment, and other upfront costs. KS is still not a store, but, if backers keep treating it like a pre-order (ie. they expect stuff and want to know what they'll get), you have to cater towards their demands towards them forking over their money. Backers who look at KS as a benevolent patron are, imo, far fewer than those who treat it like a store and demand product.
KS takes a percentage of the funding, which obviously means that KS is interested in multimillion dollar projects. Maybe smaller creators will have better luck on crowdfunding sites targeted towards smaller creators. fwiw, James Mathe, who has run crowdfunding projects on KS and IGG ran his campaign on both platforms and found KS to still be a much better site, raising in two days on KS as much money as it took for the entire funding period on IGG.
There's this thing in business called cash flow. A business could be turning a profit, and still die because of cash flow issues. Board gaming companies are repeatedly hit hard with learning this essential truth. When you use Kickstarter, you're giving money at a 10% cut to the producer to eliminate startup costs. So instead of the producer putting up his capital and sitting on it with massive negative cash flow for a year plus. That money comes up front and the producer gets to go into production--the cost to the Kickstarter backer is that he gets to wait while his capital is tied up (but this is spread across all backers) and it may be of lower quality than what ends up in the market. So, by backing through Kickstarter it's discounted a bit as it direct from producer to consumer, and there's no capital hit and I'm waiting to get the goods at a risk of lower quality. The demand forecast for this cycle is perfect as well. If the producer planned well, there's little risk of negative cash flow (still happens though).
Now, when it goes into retail market. The producer pays the production cost, then sells to distributors and then they sell to retailers which each have to mark up the cost to stay afloat themselves, which then goes to consumers. So there's two more mouths to feed in the chain, and quality issues are hopefully fixed at this point. Forecasting the demand at the retail level is now risking capital of the producer. The cost overall on this side is higher and the producer is assuming more risk. Commonly there's even NET90 deals in which the producer takes on even more risk in trusting that a distributor will pay him later within 90 days. Market downturn and NET90 deals fall through like dominos and a bunch of people get burned. Risk is cost. Additional members in supply chain is cost. They might even be making less when they're charging more.
So, there's no whining about fair. It is what it is. Yes it will cost you more because you didn't get on the Kickstarter. You will get an improved rule book. Not all things will be available in retail market. Kickstarter has allowed for a lot more product to reach a later market stage with fewer bankruptcies. This has created an explosion of options in boardgaming. Cost in retail will in general be higher than Kickstarter prices. Get over it.
And here's Reaper's 2012 "State of the Industry" discussion about distributors, which they are no longer satisfied with. Specifically, distributors will pick and choose what *they* think will sell, even from large players in the hobby industry. Me, I would like to make my own decisions of what games I will buy. KS, then, allows *us* as consumers to make the choices, not a distributor whom I've never met.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Argonauts unlocked!
The dragon of Thebe's tail looks friggin stupid. Like someone chopped off the end before it started to even taper and grafted a spikey pinecone on it. I get it's accurate to the concept art, but the concept sucks.
@Florent - Black Book Editions have announced a Mythic Battles: Pantheon RPG for 2017.
@David Smith - I believe the plan is to deliver everything in one go. The whole shipping thing is a right pain. I have never met any company that actively wants to ship stuff more than one lot. Nothing but bad things in that plan.
In the end, I think the resolution to put all the Conan stuff in one place (EDIT: as an add-on) makes most sense. This is, after all, a Kickstarter for Mythic Battles: Pantheon, not Conan, and though we can provide some great extras to make even more of that game, we need to focus On MB.
@Andres - looking into translations into other languages.
If we sent back every model that a few people complained about (and ignored those who liked them), then the whole project would be delayed by many months. The time and effort we spent getting as far ahead as we could afford to before we started (specifically to have confidence in delivering on time) would be wasted. A card or two, on the other hand, takes a tiny fraction of the time to do, and so can be changed without endangering the delivery date. When we change a card then our graphics guy takes an hour to do some work then the file is instantly sent (digitally) to the printer. It's the work of less than an afternoon to have it in production. A miniature has to be sculpted, sent physically somewhere (if it's trad sculpting, which half of ours are), checked, possibly returned for improvements, sent back again, approved, sent to the mould makers to be mastered, checked again, before it starts getting into the moulding process to make production moulds. Which, depending on the type of mould, can take weeks. The whole process often takes months. Not the same thing at all.
@Henrik the Adventurer - we wanted to wait to put the Conan crossover up when we had shipped the last few Conan boxes out - some time next week.
@Stijn Callant - the painting guide will probably be part of an add-on. Probably. After Atlas you never know
The demise of the mini Conan stretch Goals - we understand that this will be missed by some of you (where were you all when this was originally being discussed?). However, the content has not disappeared. We listened to the majority who clearly didn't appreciate them, and so the items which would have been mini-SG will be in with the Conan crossover add-on (when we post it) instead. So they haven't gone, just moved house. In this way people who want to play Conan with these models can get what they want without pure MB backers getting upset. Everyone wins! I thought it was quite an elegant solution. Solomonic, even.
@LepperGod - you make a good point about creative use of the background. I think the reason you've not seen a lot of that is that most of our efforts in that direction have been aimed at the campaigns, and we've not talked much about them yet. The one in the Hephaoistos campaign is a great example of what can be done. But if I tell you the details of that then it will spoil the surprise. We would love to do more, and we will. Remember that we only just started this a few days ago, so we had no guarantee we would get funded for the basics, let alone have the wonderful reception we have had from you guys. This is far from the last you've heard from Mythic Battles!
@NecroNuke9 - you are correct - the "Hell" should be changed to Tartarus or the Underworld or something. Golems too. We have to go all the names and check spellings and so on after the KS ends, when we know what we need to fix. "Tartaran" does sound like a sauce though
@JIM CHEN - I'm afraid there are no current plans to offer a painted miniatures pledge level.
I really hope they end up selling some of the stuff from the box as "boosters" later - that Minotaur is fantastic, easily my favourite to date from any company, I wants it.
Yeah, my feeling is that as with Conan, the way to treat this game is as a great boardgame that also has at least some minis you might want to paint up for wargaming. That way it doesn't much matter that you get a bunch of identical and lacklustre skellies... you can avoid painting them, and just paint up the cool stuff.
@Pseudonyme - delivery is Dec 2017. However, if we start going back and reworking the models we've already done then we will make it later than that. I know it's a pain, but this is the downside to getting stuff done in advance so you can ship on time.
Don_P - I believe there will be at least one dice add-on.
@Andrew Rees - I will ask about the painting guide.
@Don_P - TBH I can't remember the details of when I played BR. Too tired and too focussed on MB right now. What is clear to me is that there has never been a need for coloured ID tags on units in any game of MB I have played or run as a demo. That is obviously including demos run with people who had never played before.
Clear bases - unlikely. We did look into this and it was problematic and expensive so we dropped it. The ones that were practical and sufficiently inexpensive to make them viable looked really naff.
@Artem Holubiev - absolutely. WE'll be putting up a beta rulebook during the campaign, once we've got the main stuff cleared up, You're all invited to help stamp on any remaining gremlins.
Females - lots of non-combat goddesses, not so many Heroes, plenty of Monsters, almost no Troops. That is my summary of Greek myth
Translations - being discussed.
Other pantheons - we'd love to, and we may get to them in the future. This KS is all about the Greeks though
@David Kekejian - we don't currently plan to offer pre-printed models.
@Miguel Angel D - I think we have more backers than Conan did at this stage. Also at this stage there was more to spend your money on in Conan.
@Michael Wade - I didn't follow the details of the Conan campaign, so I cannot comment on their comms. I'm trying to get an update on the state of Conan shipments. Last I heard (last week) they were getting very close to finished sending out.
@Oz Locke - Currently God pledge $99 + Hephaistos $49 + Hell Judges $15.
Maybe the artists played Gods of War III...
(Or Atlas would be easier to distinguish on the board with four arms!)
spiralingcadaver wrote: Is there precedent for 4-armed Atlas? I don't remember ever seeing him depicted as such.
Not in Greek mythology no. But they are going with a rule-of-cool popular culture style, rather than with one that is accurate. Just like the Spartoi being skeletons rather than men is based upon a popular movie I'd guess Atlas having four arms is based on God of War, like ced said. At least I don't remember any further appearances of Atlas with four arms.
Split delivery - we'd rather not. As I said in the previous part of this reply, we've made a lot of effort to avoid the necessity. Split shipping adds a great deal of cost, both for packing and shipping. Best avoided.
"Can we change a model?" - Almost certainly no. Sorry. We listen to you all the time, and we change things where possible. We're changing the scenarios in the core game, we completely rearranged the SGs, and so on. However, we decided a long time ago that it was important to be able to state a delivery time and then hit it. Delivering on time with only a year's lead time means that we need to have an enormous amount of stuff done in advance. A year might sound like a long time to wait, but in terms of manufacturing and delivering thousands of items across the planet, it's not. We've already spent well over a year on this project.
The miniatures are the element with the longest lead time, so they are the furthest ahead. So while we can make some changes to paper products, adjust the layout of cards, and actively seek your feedback on rules layout (and have the time to act on it) we simply have not got the time to rework sculpts. At least, not without very quickly starting to make ourselves late, and we don't want to do that. As always, it's a balancing act between allowing you guys to join in and getting it to you sooner. There probably isn't a perfect answer. And, of course, even if we *did* rework a model there is nothing to say that we would get a version you liked any better. Not forgetting that not everyone wants any given model redone anyway.
Medea - some people don't like the model. We think that it might be because you haven't seen good pics of her yet. We're getting better photos taken to show you. Also, she *is* a mad sorceress, so she's supposed to look a bit unhinged. That's deliberate
So torn between this and Deep Madness. Both look awesome in different ways, but I can only afford one, what with getting into the Battle Systems KS at the same time T_T Happy I didn't pick up Star Saga though, since personally I prefer either of these to that one.
You could always drop a dollar in one of the projects, and if the means are available during the pledge manager period upgrade. Usually there is a couple of months after a project ends, at least, before the pledge manager is ready. Late pledging may also be an option.
rabidaskal wrote: So torn between this and Deep Madness. Both look awesome in different ways, but I can only afford one, what with getting into the Battle Systems KS at the same time T_T Happy I didn't pick up Star Saga though, since personally I prefer either of these to that one.
Translations - at present, if we want to deliver this on time (which we do) it is not practical for us to start translating it into a 3rd language (a language which none of the team speak fluently). I'm sorry, but that's just the facts. Even if we imagine that it was financially practical to do a third translation (which I am far from convinced it is) then we either delay all the versions, or increase the costs massively for the extra language edition(s). One edition of 40 was rewritten (at least in part) because of the impracticably high costs of foreign editions. And a worse edition it was for it too.
@NottrDerBarBar - there is no single player or co-op "mode". Instead, a small number of scenarios are designed specifically to work as single player or co-op games.
I will try to arrange for more pics with miniatures side-by-side or with scales. We've used our Spartan as a reference in most of them. Unfortunately some of the ministers are with the factory, so not all can be rephotograhped.
@Pawel - you make some good points about localisation. To add to your point, I've seen months added to the time it takes to do the translation because someone was negotiating with more than one distributor in a country, and the translation didn't even start before that was resolved.
Translations - I do appreciate that having games in your own language makes a huge difference. I have several games in my collection from the time when German games were not translated into English. It is a pain, but I have them because the games are really good. I don't know how these other companies magic translations out of thin air for no money in no time, as seems to be being suggested as a possibility here. I assure you it's not. As well as the actual translating (which really needs to be done by professional translators and checked by native-speaking gamers), additional translations require all the paper and card and boxes or other packaging to be laid out again to fit the new language. Some languages are 50% longer than others, so this is far from a trivial job. Then you've got to get the factory to set up a new print run (with a much lower volume so the costs per unit are higher), and then you have to arrange a new picking and packing line to make the components into games. Assuming the factory still has slots in its production schedule which you organised months ago in order to deliver on time. Oh, I forgot. Most countries have different legal requirements, testing and safety regulations for components, and so on. Sorting that is fun and easy. Not. I've known this alone to take 6 months. Actually, I've known products fail this red tape after 6 months (only to pass it on re-submission without any changes to the product).So anyone who tells you that it's just a case of flicking a switch and getting a new language version has never tried doing it. Or accepts a far lower standard than we want to. Or, as I strongly suspect is the case for these other companies, had planned to do it in the first place, so had put everything into place 6 months earlier.
@Marco Poliakhoff - female Gods are coming along. I think there should be a push for some male characters. All this talk about females, females, females...
One of the reasons for small expansions being KSE is that distributors and shops tend not to like (or take) them. I know that's not universal, but it's common.
The spears will be in ABS (hard plastic like airplane model kits) rather than PVC. This is so that the come straight, and stay that way. You can't bend ABS back with heat like PVC. But then you shouldn't need to.
@Simon Sarrasin - Conan had a number of problems, partly caused by being more successful than expected. This caused delays in delivery, which is due to be completed for the last American backers in about 2 week's time.We have used this experience to completely change the way we prepare for a KS campaign, and have invested a lot of resource working on Mythic Battles over the last 18 months +. The aim of all this additional preparation was to ensure that this KS is delivered on time.
@Weresheep of Sin AKA Stefan - the retail versions are likely to be the same as the KS ones, minus any KSE.
@Mark Avrit - each backer can have a maximum of one EB pledge to share that out. You can add as many more sets as you wan though, as far as we are concerned. can't confirm any KS built-in limits.
@Brutal314 - the dashboards have English on one side and French on the other. There will be background info and stories in the rulebook. As Beowulf says, books on real Greek mythology will give you a good start point. They are quiet on the subject of the second Titanomachy though.
@MrG0bi - The painting guide is set-by-step. I haven't read it yet (it's written, but not translated) so I'm not 100% sure what level it is in terms of techniques discussed. As discussed below by various people, the internet has some good resources for painting which are well worth checking out. Just not with our models
@mark keedwell - there used to be a print and play copy of an early version of MBP on the Mythic Games website. Don't know if it's still there. We haven't been promoting it because we're working on a more finished version of the rules. But if you're eager it should be around somewhere. The internet never forgets.
@Firengul - each double-sided 60cm square map is in one piece, folding in quarters to fit in the box. Same factory and same spec as Conan boards, just a different size.
Oh and Kraken. *We don't need no stinkin' Kraken*. We've got all sorts of nasties in the sea.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: The risks and challenges read
"Due to the fact that the core box of Mythic Battles: Pantheon is 95% complete as we head into this campaign..."
So let me get this right, they are missing that last 5% in order to get their game into the market? Apologies but I highly doubt that,also seeing what the funding target was. Unless, that number is a lie and they are missing more than five percent (which I don't think is the case), but if that was the truth they are equally not excused.
I honestly don't understand it, the sculpts are ready and look great, the theme looks good, the game I don't know but I have no reason to doubt it is also good. So, if the product is ready to go into retail, why on Earth go into crowdfunding depriving from other projects (which genuinely lack the funds) the opportunity to see the light of day? I'm sorry if I sound snarky/crabby/choleric/insert whatever you like, that is not my intention and it is definitely nothing personal with this company (I absoluetly don't know any of the people who own Monolith or Mythic Games and would perhaps buy the game in retail if reasonably priced, it follows Greek mythology after all!) but the more we study how crowdfunding works the more things we find alarmingly altering its very essence.
If any of the mods find my post inappropriate please move or delete it.
[...]
I've read your posts in other threads before along similar lines. I've seen your kickstarters succeed and fail as well. I'm sorry your not getting more from your kickstarters, but other companies have just as much right to run one as you. You have product on the market, so why should you be able to run a Kickstarter under you own reasoning? You can PM me if you'd like to respond so we don't derail this thread anymore with off topic chatter.
Obviously people have very different standards to define success. We don't have a "failed" Kickstarter to date, unless you mean "failed to fund", then yes. Otherwise from our perspective we are on a 100% track. Apparently we interpret "failure" in a different manner.
Anyway, taken to private, otherwise it will derail the Mythic Battles Kickstarter, which is plain wrong to do for obvious reasons. The Minotaur does look good BTW.
To be clear, at what level is Jake Thornton involved in this project? I certainly won't back this, though it certainly looks like something I might like, if he has anything to do with the rules. His rules-writing is terrible in my opinion, based on my experiences with his work for Mantic; he's already ruined two potentially good games for me (Deadzone and Dungeon Siege) with his terrible writing and combative personality.
agnosto wrote: To be clear, at what level is Jake Thornton involved in this project? I certainly won't back this, though it certainly looks like something I might like, if he has anything to do with the rules. His rules-writing is terrible in my opinion, based on my experiences with his work for Mantic; he's already ruined two potentially good games for me (Deadzone and Dungeon Siege) with his terrible writing and combative personality.
Personally, I think Ronnie shares a good deal of the blame. (IMO, Mantic declined ever since they used KS, even for projects not involving JT.) Certainly I haven't found any terrible reviews of his original pre-KS Dwarf King's Hold, the game Dungeon Saga was based upon. But, anyway, JT isn't part of the MB rules, since MB is a reimplementation of the MB edition from 2012, and the rules were developed before JT joined up. He will be assisting with the English rules translation, though. He's writing the MB updates, so you can get an idea of his writing style. fwiw, He's also written a Greek wargame called Tribes of Legend, so you can look up reviews of this obscure book. (He's also an archaeologist, btw!).
TalonZahn wrote: I would love to see some Conan - Pantheon crossover stuff.
Maps, creatures, no Gods.
I am not sure they can do something like that, Conan is a licensed IP and the IP holder has saying in what can and cannot happen.
They have said there will be an add-on to use MB stuff in Conan at some point. I had to drop my pledge so I'm not following it any more but it will be available at some point.
TalonZahn wrote: I would love to see some Conan - Pantheon crossover stuff.
I am not sure they can do something like that, Conan is a licensed IP and the IP holder has saying in what can and cannot happen.
Conan (books) have been Public Domain since 2006, 70 years after Howard died in 1936. As long as the game sticks to the books, rather than Frazetta or the movies, they have largely unlimited rein to do whatever they like.
the problem is going to be that so many other people have written (licenced) Conan stuff in the interim that it's all to easy for the estate to claim that the new stuff is based on that
easier to run things by the estate than risk lawyers even if you think you're in the clear (sigh)
I am 90% sure the Conan game is produced under license with Paradox Entertainment, which owns the rights to the Conan character as part of their trademarked IP. Or at least, claims to own.
Whether Paradox's claims would hold up in court against a committed opponent with Chapterhouse style expert pro bono support... is a question unlikely to ever be answered, because they would much rather do licenses than sue people. But yeah, they probably do exert some control over what Monolith does with "their" IP.
The question of the copyrights on the stories is a bit more complex than "public domain", as some of them weren't published till well after Howard's death.
Man Oedipus and Sphynx are a definite buy for me, and really the game in general is getting impossible to pass up. Damnit... I am going to have to apply for more grant money :(
Yes, you can add funds for add-ons, etc. in the pledge manager. It is my understanding that even $1 pledges get access to the pledge manager on this project (I had previously asked this in the comments because with Christmas coming....not much extra money, lol).
This game looks like a lot of fun. I am, however, worried about long-term replayability with it. Did I miss a campaign system somewhere or a different PVP mode than drafting?
I doubt it will happen but I'd love to see a crossover with Arena Rex. Most of the big monsters would make great... well.. monsters for the arena, and some of the AR gladiators would make for good heroes.
jSewell wrote: This game looks like a lot of fun. I am, however, worried about long-term replayability with it. Did I miss a campaign system somewhere or a different PVP mode than drafting?
From what I have seen there are the skirmish games (draft, etc) and the campaign/scenario games. Campaign games seem to be tied together in a story line, where winning a game will give you a small bonus in the next. I think the scenarios are either part of the campaigns (a series of scenarios) or stand alone scenarios that have specific rules and set ups.
They linked a download for the Hephaestus scenario, which is apparently #2 in that campaign. Each player has specific armies picked for them (which include combos of models not normally available) and there are special victory conditions. Then whoever wins gets to deploy more of their army off the bat in the next scenario.
It is a little weird to have to draft for all your models... I wonder if it works if you just allow multiples of units/critters across players. I have more than enough random models to count as specific things in the game, so the only thing I would need is a copy of the dashboard, which is doable.
Iv never even touched the Conan figs, I've seen a few comparisons, but what scale are they good with? Do the do well with zombicide figs? Or are they considerably larger?
I dug through the KS comments to see what Quickworthy may have posted on the subject of $1 pledges, and so far I have found this from November 11th (comment abbreviated to remove answers to other questions):
@Chiky Scares You - any pledge will get you a pledge manager when the time comes. Of course, the more you pledge now, the more free stuff gets added to everyone's pledge... Voice of Olympus
So it does say ANY pledge, which is what other backers expressed to me when I had asked a week or so ago. It would be nice if Monolith/QW added some FAQ to the front page, including a verified answer to the $1 question.
Yeah. Just wish I'd made it in for the Early Bird. I might have been able to afford more expansions! I'm thinking the Poseidon one is irresistible, and probably the terrain one too.
$49 is a LOT for an RPG book. I paid $41 (admittedly four years back) for the Hillfolk KS, which got me two large hardback books (the core book and the first supplement), by one of the best RPG designers (Robin D. Laws) and a bunch of other big names.
Even $39 is a lot, honestly. And of course it's not really $39... it's $49 but includes some dice.
The Conan RPG Kickstarter that Modiphius launched earlier this year was fairly expensive at $43, but that was 368 pages, full colour throughout, big name artists, and one of the most well-known licensed properties in the fantasy genre! So probably worth it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Still very much in for the core game, incidentally. I backed it and will likely get expansions too. The RPG does not look like good value though.
"A few months ago, Black Book Editions announced that they were going to publish an RPG based in the Mythic Battles: Pantheon universe. We are excited to be working with such an esteemed publisher, especially after the great success of their Polaris game (which was, incidentally, a KS campaign that was delivered on time, you could see it at the last Gen Con). ... We are also very happy that they chose Romain d'Huissier as the author of this new game, as he is both an expert in Greek myth as well as a well-known writer on RPGs. He was one of the authors of ENnie Award-winning RPG Qin: The Warring States, and has also been writing for the legendary Casus Belli magazine."
Not all the Heroes are necessarily direct combat ones.
Take heroes like Echo or Pandora for instance. They may not fight directly, but can do all sorts of wonderful things to the opponents.
I imagined Helen having some sort of charm that could cause opponents to miss rolls, cancel cards, something along those lines. Grant bonuses or extra activations when her attention is placed upon one of your own units.
I dunno.
Hector will be unlocked soon enough, and I'd imagine they'll make a big stretch for the million mark.
Here's the update. Research and review the publisher and the author. :
(snip!)
I read that! It might be a good RPG. But it's too expensive, for what it is. I provided a couple of examples to demonstrate that. It's more expensive at KS price than the best RPGs tend to be at retail. So, even if it's one of the best (which we've not seen any evidence for -- it may be, but it may equally well not be!), it's still too expensive.
Ian Sturrock wrote: I read that! It might be a good RPG. But it's too expensive, for what it is.
What did you find out about the author and publishing company? I haven't heard of the company. I don't really feel like playing a big naked guy, myself, though.
Not very much. Looks like the company mostly do French-language work -- translations and such. The author seems to have been one of four who worked on Qin, which did get a good reception at the time but was first published 11 years back and now appears to be out of print (though you can still buy a PDF). So again, it could be pretty good, but the guy doesn't appear to have the experience of (say) a Robin D. Laws. Silver Ennie award is a pretty good mark of quality, but not a perfect one -- I would expect the game to still be available in print format, especially since that doesn't cost anything significant to the publisher these days (it's available through DTRPG who can do print-on-demand as easily as PDFs). But Cubicle 7 (English edition publishers) are excellent in general.
I will admit to being a bit wary of the lack of info about the English translation -- I'm guessing it will be written in French and then translated? But Monolith don't have a great track record with this. I guess they could have improved their procedures with the lessons learned from Conan, but I'm definitely not up for a $50 RPG that may be OK, may be good, may be amazing... in the original French! And may or may not have a decent translation. With Conan, the game is so good and so easy to learn that you can work round the poor rulebook with a bit of effort. That's much harder to do with an RPG.
This definitely has my attention as it (try to follow this logic), looks to say 40k-ish sized war-gaming, what Arcane Legions was to Warhammer Fantasy.
At a glance, it condenses the experience down to a stripped down, non-measuring, just get in and get out, kind of war-gaming, which I feel like I could actually justify putting on the table when no one wants to commit four hours to a full sized war-game.
So what is "all in" for game-play up to? I'm in for $99 right now, but it looks like things providing gameplay content require another... oh $160 or so?
So, a great source for info is BoardGameGeek, as Benoit, the designer posts CONSTANTLY.
From comments there, it sounds like a Kraken could happen, but in a themed expansion they may, or may not get to. Ditto for Daedelus. Benoit says he actually already has play-tested/balanced stats for tons of units beyond this KS, and he hopes Asmodee/FFG as publisher will keep the line going for years, with competitive play support, and store OP kits.
He also says they do think an "All In" pledge could happen but not until close to the end. They know people want it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As rumored... I guess the expansions keep coming. Man, I want ALL of this stuff, but we're at the $250 in game-play content add-ons now. :-p
From the creator Benoit, on BGG when asked if a discounted (further discounted) EVERYTHING pledge is coming...
"We will communicate shortly on this topic. Sorry but I cannot tell too much as of now… I will just say that if we propose such a bundle, it should be a bargain "
Started the other thread in the boardgame section before the KS went live, bookmarked it, and kept going back to it via the bookmark, so managed to completely miss this thread lol. I'm going as all-in as my wallet can afford on this one.
Personally, my concern is that even after the typical year plus wait for the KS to deliver how long will the additional wait be until the expansions hit retail, and when they do will they include other versions of the seemingly random KSE that are in some of them. I cannot spend the money to get everything at once, even with the inevitable delay in the release of the pledge manager. I may end up just sticking with the core box plus the few completely KSE sets.
So what in the crossover is exclusive exactly? The ape? That's on the cover of the box?
I do like the useless villages. Could get a lot of mileage out of them.
Curious as to what people are grumbling about being the best that's being saved for last. More Titans? More of the Olympians? Hecatonchires or some other weird creatures from the beginning? Argos and his hundred eyes?
The Winged Ape is the "exclusive" mini but it mostly relates to Conan. Although they did say something in passing about it in Greek Mythos, which I have yet to find proof.
This Expansion is mostly to shut up the Conan backers that wanted crossover stuff from here to there. Which is understandable at some point. I bought Conan retail, so this will give me more stuff to use there, and maps, which is cool.
Most of the grumbling is about other Gods, Monsters, and Units. Things like the Myrmidons, lesser known Gods, more Titans, etc.
[Edit] Also this from the comments:
Quirkworthy Collaborator 3 minutes ago
All-in bundles. If you can wait till tomorrow, I think this is when they'll go live. You won't need to change your pledge. EBs are covered.
Voice of Olympus
There's a long list of items that have been hinted at or art seen in videos, RPG book, background photos, etc..
That's where the grumbling is coming from. Seeing art and assuming those will come at some point.
Like: Dionysus, Cirrce. Nemesis, Furies, The Fates, Daedalus, Aeneas, Typhon, Chimera, Persephone, Echidna, Charon, Dragon of Colchis, the Phoenix, and the Gryphon.
Charon would be nice, if they made him as he is supposed to be a strong bearded guy dressed in red clothing with a nice oar in his hand... and not some stupid skeleton in a cloak.
Yeah, i'm all-in on game-play content... but this Conan Crossover feels like an easy skip. It, frankly, seems like the Mythic Battles value is tenuous, and something they just did to help that box warrant shelf-space someday at retail?
I like the prospect of MB becoming a seriously competitive game, so I am inclined the get everything... but yeah... this one falls really flat for me.
The villagers look like they can do 1d6 damage each, but I'll take what I can get. (: I have *plenty* of guys with swords (hi, CMON!) and some villagers from Reaper's Bones KS (Bones IV next year!), but can always use some unarmed villager fodder for goblin raids.
EDIT: For dungeon delving, you can use the men as henchmen torch bearers, and the boys to carry those big sacks of copper. Child labor laws? What child labor laws?
No... they specifically added TWO new bundles. $300 is for anything gameplay related... And yes there is a $400 for everything PERIOD... but I can't see it being a big seller. :-p
well lets see, terrain set is game-play related, ketos is gameplay related (especially since the Corinthia is included in the gameplay bundle too) and stat clips are definitely gameplay related. remains to be seen what the two extra black things not revealed to the 399 bundle are gameplay related or not. but as is its 52$ extra of game related stuff the all in gameplay bundle does not have so for 48$ more you get the extra stuff plus the gameplay related things.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: No... they specifically added TWO new bundles. $300 is for anything gameplay related... And yes there is a $400 for everything PERIOD... but I can't see it being a big seller. :-p
I went for the big one as it includes the terrain set and extra clips for the stretch goal heros, gods and monsters. At that point I may as well get all the rest of it for not much more than the $300 + terrain + clips.
For any further stretch goals, I'd really like to see them add a few more troop choices. No more heroes. With the expansions added, there already is a crazy lot of them. And definitely another Titan. Atlas is feeling very lonely right now.
They really should KISS and just set up two new pledge levels inclusive of the two new bundling options. The way it's set up is already messy and a lot of people aren't going to figure it out...
The reason it's an add-on and not a pledge level is the Early Birds. Doing it this way means you add it to the pledge you already have, rather than being faced with giving up an EB if you have one.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PsychoticStorm wrote: well lets see, terrain set is game-play related, ketos is gameplay related (especially since the Corinthia is included in the gameplay bundle too) and stat clips are definitely gameplay related. remains to be seen what the two extra black things not revealed to the 399 bundle are gameplay related or not. but as is its 52$ extra of game related stuff the all in gameplay bundle does not have so for 48$ more you get the extra stuff plus the gameplay related things.
Ketos is excluded from the Titan bundle because Conan backers already have it, so aren't being forced to buy it again at this level. The alternative would be to include it, charge a little more for the bundle, and annoy everyone who backed Conan that wants a Titan pledge. It's in the Typhon bundle because that is intended to be one of everything no matter what it is. Titan is just intended to get you the units, so this avoids duplication for Conan backers and leaves the option open for non-Conan backers.
You don't lose any gameplay content by not having the clips or terrain pack. Take any one add-on out of the Titan pack and you are missing actual game play content. Not even Thaug is needed as Scylla or Charybdis can officially be used as Ketos. This is not the case withthe clips or terrain pack. You don't need the clips to play, you get enough already. These are extra clips if (like me) you're too lazy to switch them around, or want colour co-ordination. The terrain pack upgrades some elements but it isn't giving you anything you don't already have and which you can't access all the gamplay content without. It might be nice to have plastic trees instead of card, or have a choice of omphloi colours, but you lose no gameplay without them.
TalonZahn wrote: Just remember, it's the $99 God Pledge PLUS the $300 or $400 for the All In Packages.
Wait, really? Because by my calculation the $300 add-on is currently worth $260 or so. I'm guessing they are factoring in they will add another $100 of stuff in there?
TalonZahn wrote: Just remember, it's the $99 God Pledge PLUS the $300 or $400 for the All In Packages.
Wait, really? Because by my calculation the $300 add-on is currently worth $260 or so. I'm guessing they are factoring in they will add another $100 of stuff in there?
There's four add-ons still to come for the Titan bundle. One looks to be a book, and the video on the most recent update mentions a KSE Campaign Book. I reckon that will come in tonight's update. One looks to be maps, and the other two look to be minis, one of which I reckon with have Titans in.
There may actually be even more included. One add-on is added every day, and they do say you'll get all-gameplay, or all-period, add-ons with the respective bundles. The black outlines just mark what they're already aware of but Benoit said they could have notably more depending on last day surges, etc...
I expect it'll be a nice deal for us by the end, though right now i'm of the camp that the Conan cross-over was a crummy add-on they're now scrambling to awkardly justify.
Mind you, the pledges in general are terrific deals, its just that one add-on that i'll cry foul of.
I don't think they need to justify the conan add on. I got my conan pledge, have played the game, and love it. As a completionist and game lover, I'll always buy something that gives me more content, gameplay options, value, etc, out of the games in my collection that I really enjoy.
My only wish is that they added more heroes, enemies, etc in the conan crossover. I'd love to add everything this game has to offer into conan.
I'm sure many backers are like myself. We have many games already (and probably dont need more as our wives would tell us...). This game looks amazing, but conan is the real reason I originally backed. So glad I backed this for two reasons. 1. Great game, value, and minis. 2. Game serves two purposes for one cost as it adds value to conan.
It's the same reason most backed guillotine games massive darkness... it added content to and from black plague. Spend money on one game that builds two different game systems = win!
Alpharius wrote: I'm paying attention (sort of!) to too many campaigns these days!
Did they confirm that a $1 pledge now gets access to the Pledge Manager later?
Yes, I'm in right now, but running into the wall of can't get all of it so it might turn into skipping the whole lot. Like you said, too many campaigns right now and Christmas around the corner.
PsychoticStorm wrote: The artwork is fantastic the models leave some things to be desired, but hey they are not that bad, its just the artwork that is way better.
Yeah there is a few models I am not a fan of at all (Enceladus for one), but then there are others which just look fantastic (Circe!). Still what you are getting for $99 is nothing to sneeze at!
Gaming budget is stretched thin right now, especially with the holidays looming large.
I appreciate the change to upgrade later on - hopefully well into Q1 2017!
Unfortunately to meet schedule (they insist Fall 2017 is a hard release for the entire KS), they need to do a short PM window. It'll be up for a month somewhere between Jan/Feb... which sucks, because I need to somehow muster an extra $250 post-holidays to go "all-in".
Combined with Shadows of Brimstone Shogun, and Kingdom Death, the wife and I are essentially spending our entire 2017 hobby budget... by February. :-p
Hmm, I wonder which are the essential characters in the greek mythology? I am leaning towards Rise of the titans expansion, the Heroes of the Trojan war, and Hepheastus expansion. Besides that the manticore looks nice and the terrain add-on would help a lot.
The only total turd value-wise, is the cross-over, unless you also play Conan. As such, if if IF, this game becomes a competitive hit, you quickly realize the Pledge + $300 "all gameplay" bundle is probably the way to go.
I started adding up the value of all the add-ons I wanted, and quickly approached the total for one of the bundles. So I will be going with the $300 bundle
KDM still has about 40 days of funding (I think) which would have it ending around the same time the MB pledge manager opens. Would be much better to put in for a god pledge on MB now so the funds are more split up
Um.. okay. Sounds like a rather odd reason if you like the figures, but whatevs.
I thought you were talking about pig posing and lip biting, but maybe you're talking about pinky finger placement. Is this included in that "all-in" pledge?
Can anybody download that magazine that they were pitching in the last update?
I need to create an account, which I'm absolutely, positively not willing to do, even though I'd like to take a look.
Mutter wrote: Can anybody download that magazine that they were pitching in the last update?
I need to create an account, which I'm absolutely, positively not willing to do, even though I'd like to take a look.
Eh, I deplore Paolo Parente. He's not doing sexualized models because he has a cool vision (say, Kingdom Death, etc...) so much as he's just a creepy pervy guy. I made the mistake of following him on Facebook once, and he's just a gross misogenist...
No disrespect to those who like the stuff, but i'll be delighted to skip that add-on.
Meanwhile, I missed the update for the storage box. Can anyone enlighten me as to the box included in the big-big add-on? Does it somehow hold EVERYTHING?
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Does either hold the stuff from expansions, once opened? (IE the Poseidon box, Hera, etc...)
I doubt it, but they will come in their own boxes. Packaging will be like Zombicide, Conan, etc. with everything coming in vacuformed plastic trays for storage.
It seems like Paolo's Aphrodite was done first, so the covering of the breasts in the sculpt likely pre-dates the decision to do a new version more in keeping with the art direction, so would have been done with an on release.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I think he talks about the covered breasts in contrast with the artwork, it is included in the big all in pledge, not the small all in pledge.
I completely missed that. Had to go back and figure out that the render covers her nipples. As far as reasons to not buy a figure, missing the tiny exposed nipples are.. well.. each to their own.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I think he talks about the covered breasts in contrast with the artwork, it is included in the big all in pledge, not the small all in pledge.
I completely missed that. Had to go back and figure out that the render covers her nipples. As far as reasons to not buy a figure, missing the tiny exposed nipples are.. well.. each to their own.
It is no better or worse than any other decision. I am against prudishness, so if it's gonna be titties, let there be titties.
You know that Kickstarter folks do read these forums, so it's NOT implausible.
But, Tityos appears to have been a god similar to Prometheus (although attempting to rape a consort isn't the same as giving fire to mankind):
I saw Tityus too, son of the mighty Goddess Earth—sprawling there on the ground, spread over nine acres—two vultures hunched on either side of him, digging into his liver, beaking deep in the blood-sac, and he with his frantic hands could never beat them off, for he had once dragged off the famous consort of Zeus in all her glory, Leto, threading her way toward Pytho's ridge over the lovely dancing-rings of Panopeus".[1]
Looks like all that pecking at his liver turned him real bad, real quick. Or perhaps he was just that bad to begin with, and now he's truly turned monster because of it. Either way, you won't really feel sorry for him if you off him.
They already announced the python will be included even though it missed the stretch goal mark of 2.7+ million.
A lot of successful Kickstarters do that if you are close to the amount since a lot of people end up adding a lot during the pledge manager anyway. Especially since this company runs OPEN pledge managers.
They also however gave us the deluxe Pandora box upgrade for free too.
Kickstarter was still adding last minute pledges after time ran out and the final now stands at only $991 short. Hell, I'll add half of that when I bump my God pledge to a Typhon Bundle plus during the pledge manager. Would have done it now but Xmas is looming and my kids want toys, too :-D
I did the same thing myrthe. Gotta be smart with the budget after all. I will be all in come the manager next month.
2.7 million though! That's great. The monolith guys are awesome and make great games with awesome miniatures. Wouldn't have missed this kickstarter for the world.
Oh, and the preview we got at the end... vikings? Ragnarok? Thor? This game could get huge with all the future possibilities on pantheons and cultures.
Yea, lots of people in the comments are eating up the idea of a Norse Pantheon game, and several are throwing in votes for an Egyptian one.
I say make them all and do cross-overs.
Who wouldn't want Odin and Ra fighting it out? I'm drooling over the prospects of all the minis that would come out and could be used over any number of games.
Norse feels played out to me. Given the depth of deities we saw with this iteration of the game, at least a Norse one would possibly have a bit more than the usual token gods we see.
Theophony wrote: They should do all out different and do Indian (India, not Native American) or African Lore. Though I'd be down for Asian or Egyptian in that order.
India would be interesting, but it is a bit problematic considering the Hindu pantheon is actively worshipped. I mean, there's probably a few random guys who still worship Zeus, but not the billion+ people who are Hindu. Imagine if they announced a project where Jesus and Moses fought. Regardless of what you believe, you can understand the issue.
Egypt seems the likely next step. Plus maybe we could get Babi, the baboon god of destruction and virility. You know you want a this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_(mythology). He uses his boner for a mast on his ship! No mini collection would be complete without him!
Theophony wrote: They should do all out different and do Indian (India, not Native American) or African Lore. Though I'd be down for Asian or Egyptian in that order.
India would be interesting, but it is a bit problematic considering the Hindu pantheon is actively worshipped. I mean, there's probably a few random guys who still worship Zeus, but not the billion+ people who are Hindu. Imagine if they announced a project where Jesus and Moses fought. Regardless of what you believe, you can understand the issue.
Egypt seems the likely next step. Plus maybe we could get Babi, the baboon god of destruction and virility. You know you want a this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_(mythology). He uses his boner for a mast on his ship! No mini collection would be complete without him!
India would be awesome - they have a HUGE number of Gods. Also, there are more than a few non-randoms who deliberately worship Wotan. I think the active Wotan-worshippers are potentially more dangerous than the billion Hindu worshippers. Bringing Jesus & Moses to the table would be pretty good. I wonder if Bartleby and Loki would be on team J, esp if the big cheese happens to look like then-Alanis Morissette...
I tend to agree with the Celts bringing a lot to the table, building off Bisley's Slaine, the Horned God series.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Or go in a totally different direction and hit up some of the Meso-American deities. The Aztec pantheon sure has some fun ones.
Or Hawaiian/ Pacific Islanders would be another interesting choice.
Honestly, with their crop of talent they can make any group of Gods look awesome.
Meso American would be boss, and you'd get some REALLY colorful and intersting troops with the headdresses/masks etc. They were faves of mine in Smite.
There is a HUGE difference between the suggestions here and the greek mythos. The greek mythos is well known amongst a large part of the boardgamers that visit KickStarter, as said by the team.
Looking towards Asian mythos is interesting, as this is also known by the above group. There is as mentioned in this thread an active following, some of which could be offended.
I would not show much interest in a game with a mythos of which I have little insight.
TalonZahn wrote: Yea, lots of people in the comments are eating up the idea of a Norse Pantheon game, and several are throwing in votes for an Egyptian one.
I say make them all and do cross-overs.
Who wouldn't want Odin and Ra fighting it out? I'm drooling over the prospects of all the minis that would come out and could be used over any number of games.
Oh. My. God. That would be the most awesomest game ever!
We could have gods and creatures from Greek, Norse, Egyptian, Aztec, Indian and Japanese mythology all battling it out. It would be epic.
Waaargh wrote: There is a HUGE difference between the suggestions here and the greek mythos. The greek mythos is well known amongst a large part of the boardgamers that visit KickStarter, as said by the team.
Looking towards Asian mythos is interesting, as this is also known by the above group. There is as mentioned in this thread an active following, some of which could be offended.
I would not show much interest in a game with a mythos of which I have little insight.
You wouldn't want to use it as an opportunity to learn?
I have to admit I'm pretty board of the same pantheons showing up again and again.
Norse was confirmed at the end of the KS, and since Benoit has said if Pantheon does as expected, they think the Norse KS should be up by the end of 2018.
I imagine that they like money and a wide appeal - as opposed to potentially offending people worshipping active religions, those just out of circulation, (sorry JW, but rofl at your Wotan>Hindu comment) or pantheons that most people know nothing about.
The team seems to have been pretty good about communicating. For a better estimate, by how much was the Conan set delayed beyond their expectation? A half-year or so?
If they do additional pantheons, I wonder if they would create a campaign map to have the different stories intertwine.
I'd like Norse and Celtic. I'm sure Egyptian will get done, not super excited about that, but if the price point is similar I'll probably grab it. I'd like something a little more out there too, like maybe a Sumerian/Babylonian, Tengri or African.
Osorios wrote: The team seems to have been pretty good about communicating. For a better estimate, by how much was the Conan set delayed beyond their expectation? A half-year or so?
Conan was a year later than their initial estimate, but their initial estimate was completely unrealistic. Kickstarter ended Feb 11, 2015 and they gave an estimate of 8 months (October 2015). It shipped October 2016.
Yeah, Monolith was pretty foolish. During the campaign, when it blew up, people were asking "are you sure October 2015?", "really?" and Monolith was like, "sure, yeah, we'll be on time".
Wait a little, and Monolith was finally saying "uh, it'll be late".
Then I think it got pushed to mid-2016, which then pushed to October, a full year later.
I suspect this will be a little late, but hope not as late as Conan!
I'd say this has a much better chance of making it on time. Benoit seems a very different guy than the Conan team, and was always candid about all the ways this specifically wouldn't be like Conan.
Likewise he's specifically said the very short Pledge Manager window in January/February-ish, is because the production is literally waiting to go, modeling complete, game tested, etc... with production simply needing order numbers to be finalized.
With some rare exceptions, GW's recent plastic offerings are well down my list of preferrred minis.
Using HIPS on the spears is not an acknowledgement that HIPS is superior to PVC, only that it is superior to PVC for spears and other such castings that are prone to warping when done in PVC or resin. PVC has come a long way in the last five years (back when Mantic were calling it restic).
I've been looking at a few of the Conan models. I have to say that I'm surprised and impressed. Usually KS models by this point in time have me either saying "yep, these are decent" or being unsurprised at being unimpressed. Lovely, fine details on these.
I almost can't believe they're in a form of BG plastic or from a Kickstarter. So speaking for myself on the Mythic Battles KS, I'll be all in.
I've talked to a few folks who attended Mythic Battles play-test events, and it seems the get absolutely glowing reviews. By all accounts it kills something like Imperial Assault in the space of "competitive/tournament play miniature/board-game". Great balance, tons of build diversity, and macro and meta game strategy.
I was already in for "everything" but comments like that make me think the game might even see a proper competitive community grow up around it.
I was wondering why I really love the concept and execution of this game; I think the fact that it's based on the longest running "property" in the western world (well, Egyptian, I suppose and my knowledge of eastern myths and legends is sorely lacking), but it makes Tolkien look like a flash in the pan.
It's a boardgame on a 2'x2' board so I can play on my dining table and don't have to go Full Wargame to set it up.
The premise behind the game is as plausible as anything is in Greek mythology, so I can buy into that.
Most of the miniature design comes under my "good to really good" level of subjective appreciation. There's the odd design that I'd describe as "Eh... It'll do...", but for the most part I really, really like them.
Can't say that I'm interested in competitive play at the moment, but it will be really interesting to see if anything comes of it.
Due to funds I backed out, but any idea if they will open the pledge manager up for late pledgers? I didn't see it anywhere on the Kickstarter main page or their homepage.
Theophony wrote: Due to funds I backed out, but any idea if they will open the pledge manager up for late pledgers? I didn't see it anywhere on the Kickstarter main page or their homepage.
Thanks
Here's the English part of the FB post that went up on 14th January (cut a little non-relevant paragraph off the end of it for brevity).
Mythic Party... and announcement of the Pledge Manager!
It was wild last night at the Waaagh Tavern for the Mythic Party which deserved its name: over 150 attendants, many guests of honor, drinking and eating for everyone, laughter, fiery discussions, beautiful figurines, games of Mythic Battles: Pantheon, high quality posters signed by the artists who were there, gifts for everyone... and the famous announcement of the Pledge Manager that everyone was waiting for! Here it is:
The Pledge Manager of Mythic Battles: Pantheon will launch on Monday, January 30, 2017. It will be also come with a special Store Pledge (different from the KS, with retail offers without Stretch Goals) and a Late Pledge for those who missed the Kickstarter. Before that, to familiarize yourself with the interface, you will receive a test on January 23, a kind of rehearsal before the real Pledge Manager begins. During this test, you will be able to "act as if" you really order the products... at no risk. This will make it possible to see if everything is going well, and if you encounter problems or have questions, you can easily contact us, so that everything is ready and perfectly functional on D-Day. We chose to use the Pledge Manager named Fluent (who just managed the Vikings gone wild Kickstarter).
Theophony wrote: Due to funds I backed out, but any idea if they will open the pledge manager up for late pledgers? I didn't see it anywhere on the Kickstarter main page or their homepage.
Thanks
Here's the English part of the FB post that went up on 14th January (cut a little non-relevant paragraph off the end of it for brevity).
Mythic Party... and announcement of the Pledge Manager!
It was wild last night at the Waaagh Tavern for the Mythic Party which deserved its name: over 150 attendants, many guests of honor, drinking and eating for everyone, laughter, fiery discussions, beautiful figurines, games of Mythic Battles: Pantheon, high quality posters signed by the artists who were there, gifts for everyone... and the famous announcement of the Pledge Manager that everyone was waiting for! Here it is:
The Pledge Manager of Mythic Battles: Pantheon will launch on Monday, January 30, 2017. It will be also come with a special Store Pledge (different from the KS, with retail offers without Stretch Goals) and a Late Pledge for those who missed the Kickstarter. Before that, to familiarize yourself with the interface, you will receive a test on January 23, a kind of rehearsal before the real Pledge Manager begins. During this test, you will be able to "act as if" you really order the products... at no risk. This will make it possible to see if everything is going well, and if you encounter problems or have questions, you can easily contact us, so that everything is ready and perfectly functional on D-Day. We chose to use the Pledge Manager named Fluent (who just managed the Vikings gone wild Kickstarter).
Yea, I am getting 70$ shipping with the 'All the game content pledge." That is... not what I was expecting or hoping for. I am debating whether I want to cut some of that content to pay for shipping, because 70$ is really salty. That's like a Kingdom Death expansion right there.
Alpharius wrote: What was the name of the add-on level to the GOD PLEDGE in order to get all of the game content?
Just get the Typhon one:
1) you know you want too
2) it's only another $100, and money grows on trees
3) it's not like you play any other systems that eat your money like 40k or Infinity
4) it's what all the cool kids are doing
Speaking of which, didn't Typhon inherantly just lose a bunch of value ($20ish?) by them going... "oh, having a mountain of stat clips proved stupid, our mistake!" and just pulling them without replacing it with something else?
This would have been right up my alley... but isn't the amount of KS exclusive stuff just a shot in the foot?
They haven't ruled out those models becoming prizes for organized play/participation items for retail, further convention exclusives etc...
Plus it needs be said that since the primary tournament mode of play will be draft based (its core to the game), someone owning a KS exclusive doesn't necessarily even mean they would get to play it. Their own opponent could draft it from that game's pool. In play-testing, we're told this kept the impact of exclusives, limited.
It's not the impact on game play that I was worried about, it's the stiff curtailing on many popular mythical elements from a game supposed to be based on a rich heritage.
For instance, the Titanomachia is a central theme to the genesis of the Pantheon, but the only Titan is... a kickstarter exclusive? Wha... ?
Amen for alternate sculpts, but I truly wonder how much the fact that they are kickstarter exclusive vs. just being available period influenced people to bid.
That is probably different for each individual, others back things on KS because they will never come in their country, others for the exclusives, others for the discount and cheaper shipping, others because they like the project, others to get it early, others because they believe they can influence the game, ectr, ectr.
The rise of titans witch has 4 of them in there is not KS exclusive so out of 5 only 1 is KS exclusive.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: So bad example on my part. But Apollo? The Nemean Lion? Ica-motherfething-rus?
But you're proving my point a bit with your first sentence.
I know exactly what you mean, and it is the reason I have been put off getting into Zombicide, where the high number of KS exclusives made it unpalatable to collect if you didn't get in on the KS from day one. Here it is even worse, because those units that will (for some time / forever) be unavailable to non-KS backers have more significance to the game. I *did* back Mythic Battles and I am still struggling with this problem. There are only 3 add-ons that I really want (and can afford to add on) but I will be missing out on several others that may not become available again, or expansions that will be missing a KS-exclusive unit from the box. It is fiendishly clever!
Mathieu Raymond wrote: So bad example on my part. But Apollo? The Nemean Lion? Ica-motherfething-rus?
But you're proving my point a bit with your first sentence.
It's in the BASE pledge.Cough up the $100 and get in the game.
The Late Pledge is open.
Basically all I see is someone bitching for the sake of bitching. If you want them so damn bad, it's open.... get them.
God forbid you wait until it goes retail, then just proxy with some other Apollo mini....
Same thing with Sly about Zombicide. Sure, there were a lot of KS exclusives, sorry you missed them. However in that game, they make NO impact outside of using a different mini. If it's that big of a deal, either pony up the cash for the mini, or buy the cards (which are cheap and everywhere) and use your own mini.
Its also worth noting that Benoit expects this line to span literally decades and include many world Pantheons. So I suspect there will be alternate ways to officially get any content, as they won't permanently gate access to such "famous" units, for a francise that they hope to sell for a long, long time to come.
Fact is... we'll have Mythic Battles: Ragnarok on KS before all of the first KS is even out at retail, and it sounds like they legit want skus coming out constantly.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: So bad example on my part. But Apollo? The Nemean Lion? Ica-motherfething-rus?
But you're proving my point a bit with your first sentence.
It's in the BASE pledge.Cough up the $100 and get in the game.
The Late Pledge is open.
Basically all I see is someone bitching for the sake of bitching. If you want them so damn bad, it's open.... get them.
God forbid you wait until it goes retail, then just proxy with some other Apollo mini...
Same thing with Sly about Zombicide. Sure, there were a lot of KS exclusives, sorry you missed them. However in that game, they make NO impact outside of using a different mini. If it's that big of a deal, either pony up the cash for the mini, or buy the cards (which are cheap and everywhere) and use your own mini.
People arent saying they cant get them, but rather that it's bad for the long term health of the game of prominent characters are made unavailable to keep them exclusive. Imagine teaching the game to a new player months later, who didnt even know about the kickstarter, and explaining "Sorry dude, Apollo, Persephone, Pegasus, etc are all KS exclusives". With a boardgame, particularly a co-op one, it matters less than in a tournament where there might be some OPKS exclusive combo you'll get hosed by because you didnt buy in a few years earlier. I'm vaguely aware there's some kind of draft thing to help with this, but its a general psychology issue.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: So bad example on my part. But Apollo? The Nemean Lion? Ica-motherfething-rus?
But you're proving my point a bit with your first sentence.
It's in the BASE pledge.Cough up the $100 and get in the game.
The Late Pledge is open.
Basically all I see is someone bitching for the sake of bitching. If you want them so damn bad, it's open.... get them.
God forbid you wait until it goes retail, then just proxy with some other Apollo mini...
Same thing with Sly about Zombicide. Sure, there were a lot of KS exclusives, sorry you missed them. However in that game, they make NO impact outside of using a different mini. If it's that big of a deal, either pony up the cash for the mini, or buy the cards (which are cheap and everywhere) and use your own mini.
People arent saying they cant get them, but rather that it's bad for the long term health of the game of prominent characters are made unavailable to keep them exclusive. Imagine teaching the game to a new player months later, who didnt even know about the kickstarter, and explaining "Sorry dude, Apollo, Persephone, Pegasus, etc are all KS exclusives". With a boardgame, particularly a co-op one, it matters less than in a tournament where there might be some OPKS exclusive combo you'll get hosed by because you didnt buy in a few years earlier. I'm vaguely aware there's some kind of draft thing to help with this, but its a general psychology issue.
Oh good, so I'm not alone in seeing this as a potential problem.
And heaven forbid I would want those minis for another game and just want to be able to grab the Apollo expansion at retail for, say, Of Gods and Mortals. I have been looking high and low for good, rightly scaled Zeus (Zeusii?) Athena, Ares and such models. It's the models themselves that I want. And I know that the world revolves around the USA, we all know that, but shipping to the Verge of the Known Universe (ie your closest neighbour) is prohibitive, to say the least. So to get a bit of everything would cost a lot closer to, what 4-500$ of my monopoly money?
So the root of the problem is you don't want to spend X amount of money to get what you want. Compiled by the fact you can't seem to get the ONE mini you want for something else?
S&H is what it is, they've adjusted it once already. Mine got cut in half.
As for long term there's 2 avenues here. Going forward there will be at least 2, if not 3, Pantheons to pick from so the lack of Gods won't be a problem. Second, exclusives now, don't mean exclusive forever. It could turn out that it's KS exclusive meaning only exclusive in the starter box via the KS. It could just mean that the future starter box won't have him in it in retail, not that it won't be a stand-alone ever.
I can't believe that you believe there will never be an Apollo mini for the game unless you get it now in the KS.
This would have been right up my alley... but isn't the amount of KS exclusive stuff just a shot in the foot?
er not if you backed it no
In fact as a KS backer its realy nice. There is usually a benefit for stumping up the money to make the game.
Now if you didn;t back then its annoying I guess - but it may be available in the next KS or they might do another version of the character you want in a future release / KS.
TalonZahn wrote: So the root of the problem is you don't want to spend X amount of money to get what you want. Compiled by the fact you can't seem to get the ONE mini you want for something else?
S&H is what it is, they've adjusted it once already. Mine got cut in half.
As for long term there's 2 avenues here. Going forward there will be at least 2, if not 3, Pantheons to pick from so the lack of Gods won't be a problem. Second, exclusives now, don't me exclusive forever. It could turn out that it's KS exclusive meaning only exclusive in the starter box via the KS. It could just mean that the future starter box won't have him in it in retail, not that it won't be a stand-alone ever.
I can't believe that you believe there will never be an Apollo mini for the game unless you get it now in the KS.
Shipping concerns aside, the point stands that exclusive units are a questionable move for a wargame that wants to grow an audience past the kickstarter. Its why most PVP video games seem to just offer new skins for pre-orders. If they plan on releasing alt minis w the same stat, that's great, but that hasn't been communicated, other than the Paolo box Aprodite/Circe. Barriers to growth can and should be weighed when deciding whether or not to buy in.
FWIW, I'll end up being all in on exclusive gameplay stuff (and the Paolo box.. it was actually the pigs that sold that one). But I'm not worried about playing in a game store (or even really playing as little as I game nowadays).
It is a reasonable concern but as I said the plan as I understand it is to get them released at a later stage wit alternative sculpts.
that been said the drafting system as I understand it makes the point a bit moot, one player can bring a few KS exclusive units that does not mean he will get to play with them, their opponent might.
And this is were I think this game will find issues in tournament play.
.
Um.. okay. Sounds like a rather odd reason if you like the figures, but whatevs.
