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We didn't call it 'The Eye of Terror' for nothing.
was it bad due to GW or community?
Anyway, these news sound good to me. Wyrd-games forums seem very good and helpfull for many..
Dakka and warseer were the most civil places in the world by comparison. The forums were a large part of the reason for gw dissappearing from social media.
Ghaz wrote: I just pray that they don't have a forum. Their last venture into that area had the well-earned name as the 'Eye of Terror'
EDIT I wonder if we'll see the awaited 40KFAQs on the new website
The GW forum was the first web forum I ever joined along with my then GF at the time - I think we were 17. We were so excited - we were there on day 1 and made one of the first (if not the first) posts on the general discussion page.
It basically boiled down to:
"Wow this is awesome a place to discuss Warhammer! That's awesome!"
It was suggested that we GTFO the internet and stop wasting space with useless content ... and went downhill from there.
That was our first interaction with another human being on the internet.
We didn't call it 'The Eye of Terror' for nothing.
was it bad due to GW or community?.
Largely due to the fact that GW pretty much ignored it and left it up too a too-small group of volunteer moderators to keep everything under control, and the community got increasingly irritated with any attempt at communication with GW being met by a giant wall of silence...
Any fanbase's treatment of a franchise is tempered by how said fanbase feels themselves to be regarded by that franchise's owners. GW have done quite a bit to turn perception around recently. It will be interesting to see if they can continue to do so.
Ghaz wrote: I just pray that they don't have a forum. Their last venture into that area had the well-earned name as the 'Eye of Terror'
EDIT I wonder if we'll see the awaited 40KFAQs on the new website
The GW forum was the first web forum I ever joined along with my then GF at the time - I think we were 17. We were so excited - we were there on day 1 and made one of the first (if not the first) posts on the general discussion page.
It basically boiled down to:
"Wow this is awesome a place to discuss Warhammer! That's awesome!"
It was suggested that we GTFO the internet and stop wasting space with useless content ... and went downhill from there.
That was our first interaction with another human being on the internet.
Ahh the sweet nostalgia...
*reports post*
I'm not sure why GW bothered, they'd could have just linked everyone to Bols.
It would be nice if they could recapture the times when you could have discussions with GW staff online. Not on their own forums of course, but portent.
Im sure if they made a new one, the current internets team would do a great job. Although I think Dakka will always hold a special place in my purity seal.
Ghaz wrote: I just pray that they don't have a forum. Their last venture into that area had the well-earned name as the 'Eye of Terror'
EDIT I wonder if we'll see the awaited 40KFAQs on the new website
The GW forum was the first web forum I ever joined along with my then GF at the time - I think we were 17. We were so excited - we were there on day 1 and made one of the first (if not the first) posts on the general discussion page.
It basically boiled down to:
"Wow this is awesome a place to discuss Warhammer! That's awesome!"
It was suggested that we GTFO the internet and stop wasting space with useless content ... and went downhill from there.
That was our first interaction with another human being on the internet.
Ahh the sweet nostalgia...
*reports post*
I'm not sure why GW bothered, they'd could have just linked everyone to Bols.
It would be nice if they could recapture the times when you could have discussions with GW staff online. Not on their own forums of course, but portent.
You can interact with GW staff on Twitter already. :-) it's really fun to do so.
They'll have to close a couple of stores. The saving in money will pay the wages for the amount of time moderators will need to keep the site clean and wield their banhammers.
I see either a place where people go to argue for/against GW in a haters vs white knights slanging match.
Ghaz wrote: I just pray that they don't have a forum. Their last venture into that area had the well-earned name as the 'Eye of Terror'
EDIT I wonder if we'll see the awaited 40KFAQs on the new website
The GW forum was the first web forum I ever joined along with my then GF at the time - I think we were 17. We were so excited - we were there on day 1 and made one of the first (if not the first) posts on the general discussion page.
It basically boiled down to:
"Wow this is awesome a place to discuss Warhammer! That's awesome!"
It was suggested that we GTFO the internet and stop wasting space with useless content ... and went downhill from there.
That was our first interaction with another human being on the internet.
Ahh the sweet nostalgia...
*reports post*
I'm not sure why GW bothered, they'd could have just linked everyone to Bols.
It would be nice if they could recapture the times when you could have discussions with GW staff online. Not on their own forums of course, but portent.
You can interact with GW staff on Twitter already. :-) it's really fun to do so.
Duncan will be on twitter soon!
I doubt there will be a forum. It is not mentioned in the info. It will probably be a collection of articles and galleries. I am looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
Cubs win the World Series.
Trump wins election for US President.
GW launching a community portal.
*drives to pub*
Six pints of bitter. And quickly, please because the world's about to end!
But seriously, I entered the hobby just a few years ago, long after GW had already abandoned the community. My only experience with them has been a cold, unfeeling profit machine with disdain for their customer base and this "game" thing they keep yammering on about. I had no idea they used to have forums, what the "old" White Dwarf was like, tournaments, etc. I learned all that later, and like many people I was left scratching my head as to how we got to here. Recently there have been a number of signs that the tide is turning, so maybe this community site will be more than an advertising vehicle. I'm skeptical. You only get one chance to make a first impression.
We didn't call it 'The Eye of Terror' for nothing.
Yes. It was quite a cess pool at the end.
Well that happens when you get censored for just having an opinion and not even being rude about it but polite. Anything GW deemed made them look bad because someone said "terminators cost to much" that wold look like GW made a bad unit so it would be deleted and if the person said it again, would be banned.
When someone is silenced they just end up yelling louder. Let's hope this in not the case what ever GW decides to do this round.
We didn't call it 'The Eye of Terror' for nothing.
Yes. It was quite a cess pool at the end.
Well that happens when you get censored for just having an opinion and not even being rude about it but polite. Anything GW deemed made them look bad because someone said "terminators cost to much" that wold look like GW made a bad unit so it would be deleted and if the person said it again, would be banned.
That is correct. A forum with no room for open discussion isn't worth going to. If I can't criticize a ruleset that created a bomber that couldn't drop bombs for a year or so, I won't speak at all.
We didn't call it 'The Eye of Terror' for nothing.
Yes. It was quite a cess pool at the end.
Well that happens when you get censored for just having an opinion and not even being rude about it but polite. Anything GW deemed made them look bad because someone said "terminators cost to much" that wold look like GW made a bad unit so it would be deleted and if the person said it again, would be banned.
Yeah, that wasn't the entire issue there.
You're right, there was also the fact a pretty big company with a large community expected a small band of volunteer mods to manage the whole thing, so in addition to the moderation sometimes being manifestly unfair apparently at the direction of GW proper, it was also inconsistent in frequency and application. Not to mention the software was garbage.
There's no way to spin the old Eye of Terror as anything other than GW's fault, because just about every other company on the planet that's created an official online community has accepted it's their responsibility to employ a team of paid mods and community managers to effectively and fairly police that community to ensure the vast majority of people who never go beyond "mildly frustrated" and are usually pretty happy, don't have their experience ruined by the handful of dedicated trolls and the occasional totally irrational nerdrager. They chose not to bother, and got nothing less than what they deserved - a toxic, angry, bitter mess.
I really, really hope they've learned their lesson and will either limit the new site to a repository of articles in the style of Fanatic Online or Black Gobbo, or will take proper responsibility for fairly managing the comments system or forum if they choose to have one. Frankly I hope they just stick with an article site, between social media and fan forums there's no real need for an official one, and the community has been fragmented enough already.
We didn't call it 'The Eye of Terror' for nothing.
Yes. It was quite a cess pool at the end.
Well that happens when you get censored for just having an opinion and not even being rude about it but polite. Anything GW deemed made them look bad because someone said "terminators cost to much" that wold look like GW made a bad unit so it would be deleted and if the person said it again, would be banned.
Yeah, that wasn't the entire issue there.
Then what is the issue here? When I was on the site and only knew about GW site and not about Dakka or Warseer or Bells of Lost Souls forums, GW was the only place for me to go to, to chat with other people about 40K that I was getting into. Seeing how you couldn't say what you wanted in a nice professional respectful manner and then get your comments deleted, people just ended up talking louder and GW kept censoring anything that wasn't making GW positive. Heaven forbid you said "game takes to long to play, would be nice to have shorter games" and it would get deleted for making 40K or Fantasy seems it takes to long to play.
So people end up screaming to just be heard and that is why it became the cess pool it became. People over yelling each other to get their point across.
So what did I miss that it's not the entire issue then?
Davor wrote: Well that happens when you get censored for just having an opinion and not even being rude about it but polite. Anything GW deemed made them look bad because someone said "terminators cost to much" that wold look like GW made a bad unit so it would be deleted and if the person said it again, would be banned.
When someone is silenced they just end up yelling louder. Let's hope this in not the case what ever GW decides to do this round.
That wasn't my problem with the forum. It was more the lack of moderating. It was filled with trolls, off topic posts and general poor manners. I stopped visiting long before they shut it down for those reasons.
It was loads of fun the old forum if you liked being sworn at called every expletive under the sun and generally trolled. Trying to get gw to respond was less likely than a lotto win
Davor wrote: Well that happens when you get censored for just having an opinion and not even being rude about it but polite. Anything GW deemed made them look bad because someone said "terminators cost to much" that wold look like GW made a bad unit so it would be deleted and if the person said it again, would be banned.
When someone is silenced they just end up yelling louder. Let's hope this in not the case what ever GW decides to do this round.
That wasn't my problem with the forum. It was more the lack of moderating. It was filled with trolls, off topic posts and general poor manners. I stopped visiting long before they shut it down for those reasons.
Wink Martindale says you're the contestant who wins the trip to sunny Acapulco.
No official news as of yet, but http://www.warhammer-community.com/ asks for a user name and password and gives a 401 Unauthorized error. A WHOIS lookup shows that GW owns the domain.
SlaveToDorkness wrote: We'll meet back at the Winchester and wait for this to all blow over!
Hopefully they do it up right and it's a nice place to interact. I'm on several other companies forums and they manage it, why not GWs?
Did anyone notice they called it "the Warhammer hobby" instead of "The Hobby" like they usually arrogantly do?
Might be tied to them thinking about changing their name from Games Workshop to Warhammer. They've rebranded a few test stores I've heard. Seems a stupid idea to me though. Their brand isn't particularly recognizable to anyone who isn't already a customer, so that name would be utterly meaningless to anyone walking by.
That wasn't my problem with the forum. It was more the lack of moderating. It was filled with trolls, off topic posts and general poor manners. I stopped visiting long before they shut it down for those reasons.
It was the worst forum that I have ever visited. Trolls everywhere, inappropriate moderation that swung between draconian and non existent, idiotic content, virtually no productive discussion and the format was absolutely terrible.
It should be a case study in how not to run a forum.
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We think you're going to love it.
Charax wrote: As long as they restore the hobby content that was nuked when the main webpage became just a webstore, I'll be happy
This 1000%
I remember getting into the hobby and spending hours reading through the old website. There were SOOO many good articles about building, painting, converting, army building, background, etc. etc.
When they took that part of the website down and I couldn't find those articles I'd loved again, that was the first step down the road of "feth" GW that led me to my current bitter, cynical self.
The blog is ending? That means on the last ever Flickr pool in the blog I was present on the 9 window preview (Those are my Genestealer Abberants). Nice to be a minor part of a historic moment ;-) haha
I don't see anything about a forum on that Warhammer Community announcement. I could totally see GW deciding not to have one, and I can't say I would blame them for it. Not with the current state of the community.
Perhaps it'll be like Facebook in the actual community portion of it, where you post statuses, pictures, and other such hobby stuff, and others can Like/Share it. But that's the extent of the interaction between the community. Comments will of course be deactivated by default for all posts.
Reading the info. It looks like they will take all the info from the blog, the gallery and all the various Facebook pages, add in the rules downloads from the store and leave it at that. Even if it is just that, I will be happy enough if it is organised well.
Oh GW, "photography is not our strong suite" LMFAO. Sadly first thing I thought of when I saw this was a Warmachine mini. Already starting by a lie eh? You guys are good with photography.
As for the rumours, how can it be a rumour when it's from GW?
Davor wrote: Oh GW, "photography is not our strong suite" LMFAO. Sadly first thing I thought of when I saw this was a Warmachine mini. Already starting by a lie eh? You guys are good with photography.
As for the rumours, how can it be a rumour when it's from GW?
Steampunk mini by chance?
Yeah, Steampunk Duradin is a rumour from a while back. Was my first thought. Colour palette doesn't really fit into 40k.
Is it me or is that one of the most unbelievable sights ever. What are all those girls doing there ? And what are they all even doing. No game GW ever made looked like that.
So... I'm work blocked, but looked on my phone. This is just a blog? Is there any community interaction at all? Looks like the existing WarhammerTV and blog articles all linked to in one place. Maybe I'm missing something because I'm just getting the mobile view.
Some really good articles on there, the miniature photography one is excellent and goes into details about how to use f-stops, shutter speed, ISO and white balance on a DSLR camera, with lots of sample photos.
Kriswall wrote: So... I'm work blocked, but looked on my phone. This is just a blog? Is there any community interaction at all? Looks like the existing WarhammerTV and blog articles all linked to in one place. Maybe I'm missing something because I'm just getting the mobile view.
Well, it's a Wordpress site. They could enable comments for articles or implement a forum. Don't know if they plan to...
Kriswall wrote: So... I'm work blocked, but looked on my phone. This is just a blog? Is there any community interaction at all? Looks like the existing WarhammerTV and blog articles all linked to in one place. Maybe I'm missing something because I'm just getting the mobile view.
I could be mistaken but none that I see for community interaction at all. Just basically what was missing from the GW website of old. They do give links to the respective Facebook page if you want to leave a comment so I am guessing the community interaction will be on Facebook only.
Kriswall wrote: So... I'm work blocked, but looked on my phone. This is just a blog? Is there any community interaction at all? Looks like the existing WarhammerTV and blog articles all linked to in one place. Maybe I'm missing something because I'm just getting the mobile view.
I could be mistaken but none that I see for community interaction at all. Just basically what was missing from the GW website of old. They do give links to the respective Facebook page if you want to leave a comment so I am guessing the community interaction will be on Facebook only.
Gotcha. So it's not really a community site at all. More of a consolidated news feed for their current outlets.
Kriswall wrote: So... I'm work blocked, but looked on my phone. This is just a blog? Is there any community interaction at all? Looks like the existing WarhammerTV and blog articles all linked to in one place. Maybe I'm missing something because I'm just getting the mobile view.
yeah it kinda looks like that....
Unless I haven't figured it out jet.
That is the way I take Kriswall. Just an all in one, which for someone like me, is a good thing since I can never find their sites on Facebook since and come to dakka to find the links then book mark them if I want. (yeah I don't know how to use Facebook. )
It is a nice looking hub for all their stuff which has been kind of scattered around the internet until now. The actual community stuff is the Facebook pages, but is nice to see it all in one place.
The sneak peek really looks like steam punk dwarves. In the bottom right it looks like a dwarf face.
Didn't think it was that impressive Ratius till I scrolled down and saw how large it is. I thought at first it was small very well done board, till I saw the walls. Pretty impressive.
Chikout wrote: It is a nice looking hub for all their stuff which has been kind of scattered around the internet until now. The actual community stuff is the Facebook pages, but is nice to see it all in one place.
The sneak peek really looks like steam punk dwarves. In the bottom right it looks like a dwarf face.
It will be more of an actual community once they get around to posting articles submitted by the community.
Very nice! I'm so happy that the WHTV team got to expand and do even more of what they do best, they're probably the best thing GW have going right now. Love the approach they're taking with the articles, almost like a WD complement with a more casual approach. And as expected, no forum. They have Facebook for that and it works great.
Mymearan wrote: Very nice! I'm so happy that the WHTV team got to expand and do even more of what they do best, they're probably the best thing GW have going right now. Love the approach they're taking with the articles, almost like a WD complement with a more casual approach. And as expected, no forum. They have Facebook for that and it works great.
Edit: oh and Duncan at the end of the video <3
Yeah, Duncan is a gentleman and a scholar He'll be damned if he'll let anyone make the mistake of NOT thinning their paints
Mymearan wrote: Very nice! I'm so happy that the WHTV team got to expand and do even more of what they do best, they're probably the best thing GW have going right now. Love the approach they're taking with the articles, almost like a WD complement with a more casual approach. And as expected, no forum. They have Facebook for that and it works great.
Edit: oh and Duncan at the end of the video <3
Yeah, Duncan is a gentleman and a scholar He'll be damned if he'll let anyone make the mistake of NOT thinning their paints
Mymearan wrote: Very nice! I'm so happy that the WHTV team got to expand and do even more of what they do best, they're probably the best thing GW have going right now. Love the approach they're taking with the articles, almost like a WD complement with a more casual approach. And as expected, no forum. They have Facebook for that and it works great.
Edit: oh and Duncan at the end of the video <3
Yeah, Duncan is a gentleman and a scholar He'll be damned if he'll let anyone make the mistake of NOT thinning their paints
Seen the post about his first mini?
First one I read, it was wonderful to see how we all start the same
Mymearan wrote: Very nice! I'm so happy that the WHTV team got to expand and do even more of what they do best, they're probably the best thing GW have going right now. Love the approach they're taking with the articles, almost like a WD complement with a more casual approach. And as expected, no forum. They have Facebook for that and it works great.
Edit: oh and Duncan at the end of the video <3
Yeah, Duncan is a gentleman and a scholar He'll be damned if he'll let anyone make the mistake of NOT thinning their paints
Seen the post about his first mini?
First one I read, it was wonderful to see how we all start the same
Like a forum would have been anything but crap. Come on. And Comment sections are no better. Do you really want 1500 threads of "GW nerf Eldar you s!"?
They have models and articles from non-GW people, which is already community enough from my standpoint, and the Facebook groups for comments and feedback.
It's nice to now have free access to the additional boardgame rules and painting articles from WD. Plus quite some new ones already. No forum was a good choice, people can talk to them on FB. I'm looking forward to the first batch of user-written articles. After reading for 30 minutes on the new page, I think well done GW
Requizen wrote:I was kind of hoping this site would also hold all their FAQs, but I guess we're still waiting on those for 40k.
Would be nice yes, but GW already released FAQs today if you read it in the News and Rumours thread today. Same old GW. Here is hoping when the actual First Drafts or by the time 8th edition comes out if this was a test how to do 8th edition FAQs, things will be a lot better.
Bottle wrote:What an awesome start! Think I am going to sign up to the mailing list. Rob and Duncan are both awesome.
Surprisingly I did, first thing I did.
RoninXiC wrote:No Forum.
No Comments
no Interaction.
Why is this called "Community"?
Cynical side of me says this is GW being smoke and mirrors. Realist side of me, know how we as a community, nerds and geeks can be very toxic and negative and no matter what GW does, there will be a nerd/geek who will need to put in some toxicity because we have nothing else better to do and just complain instead of letting GW try to change.
Do we really need a GW forum? After all we have Dakka. Also who knows, baby steps right. Do little bit at a time and learn and grow the site properly instead of trying to do everything all at once.
Edit, ot maybe a dwarven golem for AOS. Look like a dwarf hammer rune in the bottom right
Just seen the other thread looks like some cool models if they are bringing steam punk dwarves out for AoS I'm going to be skint. If it's squats....then oh boy.
unmercifulconker wrote: Or just call it Warhammer Community, cas its a community site, for the community, enjoyed by the community, for the community, community.
Wasn't the old community part of their web shop exactly like this new community page.. Just a bunch of cool articles on how to paint stuff, make terrain and some obscure rules. Is the Gw site in the internet archives? it would be fun to link at the old version just to see how much has changed in the years
Because they did a Fine/Replace with "advertising".
Well at least they did give us links to Facebook if we wanted to chat or say something. So yes there is interaction. Thing is I don't use Facebook much so not sure how interactive it is on GW Facebook pages.
Can anyone really blame GW for not wanting to host a community forum in light of what the community is actually like online?
They want to control the narrative around their product, which entails selecting what is being said. Having a forum would entail giving an endorsed platform to the same never-ending whining that goes on here ("Chaos sucks," "It's never Tzeentch," "People want SoBs and GW won't listen"). It would be a terrible move.
Because they did a Fine/Replace with "advertising".
Well at least they did give us links to Facebook if we wanted to chat or say something. So yes there is interaction. Thing is I don't use Facebook much so not sure how interactive it is on GW Facebook pages.
They do reply ( see my post in the duardin thread) but not constantly.
The reason why this is a community is that it will have articles on it by the community. They already have one by Dan Heelen.
They also feature the work of the community, with at least three featured armies so far. They will have links to podcasts by the community.
The default response of many people here is cynicism. It is an unfortunate truth that people who are angry are much more likely to comment than those who are happy. By keeping the comments off to one side, it allows those who just want to enjoy the articles do that without having to worry about whether it is ok to like something or not.
If you do wish to engage, the Facebook stuff is there. The talk of extreme censoring there is nonsense. There are plenty of negative posts which have not been taken down.
I am wondering if I should try writing something and see if it gets up there. I encourage those who are actually interested in making the site better, to do the same.
Edit- a little something to illustrate my point
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, trying to engage with your fanbase is always a terrible idea.
It is when your fanbase is mostly comprised of piss-smearing little trolls with no other purpose than to moan and cry about every little thing you *don't* do.
Have you read any of their facebook posts? Or were you too busy smearing piss? It should be obvious that purposely interacting with hostile audiences is bad for business - even if handled well, it simply becomes an outlet for negativity, and the only time negativity ever sold anything was....well, the 9th age, Kings of War 2, etc. If you can not wrap your mind around the notion of GW not interacting with a toxic community, then just keep on at it then - you are probably part of the toxic community.
In all fairness, they probably have plans to one day. But its too early, the community is still too toxic and spurned. GW has to win back our trust with Baby steps.
Baby steps.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote:Can anyone really blame GW for not wanting to host a community forum in light of what the community is actually like online?
They want to control the narrative around their product, which entails selecting what is being said. Having a forum would entail giving an endorsed platform to the same never-ending whining that goes on here ("Chaos sucks," "It's never Tzeentch," "People want SoBs and GW won't listen"). It would be a terrible move.
Devils Advocate here now. Yes I can blame GW for this. After all they are the ones who started this toxicity. So it's ok to piss off your client base, do not give what the want, treat them like they are a joke, and on top of that, make bad rules, make not clear or concise rules where people need to argue on how they work and add to that bad business practices? It's not like GW could have avoided all this in the first place. They on purpose did what they did. So why are you blaming us the people and fans? It wasn't our fault.
That said, it's time we both change. It seems GW is changing now. If we don't change, then that speaks of us not GW this time.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote:Can anyone really blame GW for not wanting to host a community forum in light of what the community is actually like online?
They want to control the narrative around their product, which entails selecting what is being said. Having a forum would entail giving an endorsed platform to the same never-ending whining that goes on here ("Chaos sucks," "It's never Tzeentch," "People want SoBs and GW won't listen"). It would be a terrible move.
Devils Advocate here now. Yes I can blame GW for this. After all they are the ones who started this toxicity. So it's ok to piss off your client base, do not give what the want, treat them like they are a joke, and on top of that, make bad rules, make not clear or concise rules where people need to argue on how they work and add to that bad business practices? It's not like GW could have avoided all this in the first place. They on purpose did what they did. So why are you blaming us the people and fans? It wasn't our fault.
That said, it's time we both change. It seems GW is changing now. If we don't change, then that speaks of us not GW this time.
Yeah... these days I'm looking more and more at FFG as my go to gaming company. I'm very optimistic about their upcoming Runewars Miniatures Game, which looks to be a replacement for your rank and file fantasy needs. Assuming success, I could easily see a science fiction version in the future.
FFG has a community forum that isn't filled with toxicity. You know how rules debates go on their forum? "How does XYZ work?" "Page 5, Paragraph 6." "Thanks." FFG puts out regular FAQs and with games like X-Wing and Armada, makes sure that every faction sees at least one product in every release wave. They simply don't give their fan base many reasons to complain.
If GW wants the same lack of toxicity, they need to give their fan base fewer reasons to complain. I believe they're trying to do this, but definitely aren't there yet.
Kriswall wrote: If GW wants the same lack of toxicity, they need to give their fan base fewer reasons to complain. I believe they're trying to do this, but definitely aren't there yet.
People were complete douchebags to one another (not just to GW) even back in the early 2000s. It's why GW shut down their old forums and why Dakka has moderators. Gamers are toxic by default.
FFG also have much simpler rule sets and a far smaller range to maintain.
It's not really the case that ffg = good GW = bad.
People talk like GW went round twirling their moustache. They really didn't do anything so horrific.
They had some years where they arguably let prices inflate too much and they didn't have a good strategy to engage with customers. They didn't go round clubbing seals on a corporate level.
I read these websites for rumours about a number of different games I'm interested in. Warhammer 40,000 is one of them. I'm an old-schooler GW fan, too; I have incredibly fond memories of Rogue Trader, of buying my very first RTB 01 "beakies", as well as my first Space Marine battalion in 6mm when they issued the Epic plastics. Real old-school.
GW, for me, went downhill a little in the 90s, like it did for many old timers, but really I grew up and developed other interests like girls, guitars and booze. Then I noticed in the mid to late 2000s that they were still turning out really great figures and got into the painting side of it. It was an expensive hobby. It had always been an expensive hobby. Always.
But the forums... Oh man. The forums. Just wall-to-wall childish whining. No other fandom posts stock market figures or annual finance reports for their chosen hobby vendors with such wild, rampant and, disturbingly, hopeful speculation about the imminent downfall of the market leader. It's absurd and grotesque and turns me off massively.
I don't think it's restricted entirely to GW: most of the internet is now the sole preserve of people complaining about one thing or another. I love the internet. But we've turned ourselves into a community of Mary Whitehouses, just with slight variances on our chosen bugbears. Beta males upset that girls think they're beta males, so they smash the new Ghostbusters to pieces because it has women in it (obscuring the fact it was actually just a bad movie regardless). Conservatives upset that the truth has a well-known liberal bias so they create their own versions of wikipedia to redress the balance. Liberals upset that South Park won't take their side. Women upset that basement-dwelling children repeatedly violate their self-declared safe spaces, as if the declaration of such a space wasn't an active and irresistable invitation for trolling to juveniles in the first place.... (Of course, I'm also being a bit of a devils advocate with these examples, too).
And people whining that plastic figures are too expensive/have too much/too little detail/aren't for the specific faction they're interested in/changed the paint range/changed the base sizes/changed the rules/didn't make enough changes are pretty much par for the course on almost anything related to GW. I'm even joining in the negativity by pointing it out.
So, no, they're not going to open themselves up to the poisonously negative minority, and I don't blame them. Engagement needs to be fun and positive, and their light trolling in the recent videos is them tentatively dipping their toes in that water. In spite of that, there are still plenty of sharks waiting to bite their toes off and ruin it for the rest of us. I don't know if they'll ever go away.
But, as a customer, I'm actually really very happy. So whether it happens or not, I'm not that bothered. And I'm seeing the negative, poisonous individuals who tend to find any excuse to complain about GW using the fact that they won't open themselves up to more engagement to criticise them yet further and I'm finding it wonderfully absurd.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote:Can anyone really blame GW for not wanting to host a community forum in light of what the community is actually like online?
They want to control the narrative around their product, which entails selecting what is being said. Having a forum would entail giving an endorsed platform to the same never-ending whining that goes on here ("Chaos sucks," "It's never Tzeentch," "People want SoBs and GW won't listen"). It would be a terrible move.
Devils Advocate here now. Yes I can blame GW for this. After all they are the ones who started this toxicity. So it's ok to piss off your client base, do not give what the want, treat them like they are a joke, and on top of that, make bad rules, make not clear or concise rules where people need to argue on how they work and add to that bad business practices? It's not like GW could have avoided all this in the first place. They on purpose did what they did. So why are you blaming us the people and fans? It wasn't our fault.
That said, it's time we both change. It seems GW is changing now. If we don't change, then that speaks of us not GW this time.
Yeah... these days I'm looking more and more at FFG as my go to gaming company. I'm very optimistic about their upcoming Runewars Miniatures Game, which looks to be a replacement for your rank and file fantasy needs. Assuming success, I could easily see a science fiction version in the future.
FFG has a community forum that isn't filled with toxicity. You know how rules debates go on their forum? "How does XYZ work?" "Page 5, Paragraph 6." "Thanks." FFG puts out regular FAQs and with games like X-Wing and Armada, makes sure that every faction sees at least one product in every release wave. They simply don't give their fan base many reasons to complain.
If GW wants the same lack of toxicity, they need to give their fan base fewer reasons to complain. I believe they're trying to do this, but definitely aren't there yet.
FFG's still has plenty of problems, they just affect different things than GW's did. Bit less in your face.
Having this new source and outreach is better than the previous lack of it.
I've sold off / am in the process of selling off most of my warhammer after discovering the zen of historicals. This sort of outreach by GW is a plus in my books and gives me encouragement that maybe, I'll dust off the couple of forces I've kept and will play again in future. Why? Because if they're making attempts at outreach, they may take on board advice and make the game enjoyable again.
Kriswall wrote:If GW wants the same lack of toxicity, they need to give their fan base fewer reasons to complain. I believe they're trying to do this, but definitely aren't there yet.
Very well said. I think this is the problem right here. There are on their way to rectify it. Babysteps, this took years to build up, it's going to take time to fix and heal as well.
lord_blackfang wrote:
Kriswall wrote: If GW wants the same lack of toxicity, they need to give their fan base fewer reasons to complain. I believe they're trying to do this, but definitely aren't there yet.
People were complete douchebags to one another (not just to GW) even back in the early 2000s. It's why GW shut down their old forums and why Dakka has moderators. Gamers are toxic by default.
Not true. Gamers are not toxic. What is the case is Nerds/Geeks trying to be correct and only their way is the valid way. Basically everyone is a Sheldon from Big Bang Theory. So when they read a rule on how GW writes it, their way is the correct way and if someone somewhere else reads it differently they are wrong. So if GW had CLEAR, CONCISE and WELL WRITTEN rules, there would be no need for a debate/argument. Funny as the example as said, FFG's X-wing game, someone doesn't know something, the rules are still pretty much clear and concise that there is not much room for debate. On how GW goes, especially when people around the world read "English" differently and rules lawyer what a word means, goes back to "my way is the correct way". Eliminate this and we gamers are a welcoming bunch who love to try and help out other people.
So just like how Kriswall said (hopefully I didn't screw up all the quoting going on) he is correct. Eliminate reasons for people to complain about then there will be no toxicity. All GW needs to do is write clear, concise well written rules and mostly balanced points costs and "volia" no need to be toxic anymore because there is no more "My way is the correct way". X-wing doesn't do this and I don't see this coming from other gaming systems as bad as GW does it.
I'm choosing to be optimistic. it's a step in the right direction, and away from the complete lack of interaction with hobbyists which is what kind of pushed me away in the first place.
Its a step in the right direction to me. You couldn't pay me enough to moderate a GW forum though. The old GW forums were the most toxic and degenerate forums I have ever been to in the history of my being on the internet spanning back to the mid 90s.
ekwatts wrote: I read these websites for rumours about a number of different games I'm interested in. Warhammer 40,000 is one of them. I'm an old-schooler GW fan, too; I have incredibly fond memories of Rogue Trader, of buying my very first RTB 01 "beakies", as well as my first Space Marine battalion in 6mm when they issued the Epic plastics. Real old-school.
GW, for me, went downhill a little in the 90s, like it did for many old timers, but really I grew up and developed other interests like girls, guitars and booze. Then I noticed in the mid to late 2000s that they were still turning out really great figures and got into the painting side of it. It was an expensive hobby. It had always been an expensive hobby. Always.
But the forums... Oh man. The forums. Just wall-to-wall childish whining. No other fandom posts stock market figures or annual finance reports for their chosen hobby vendors with such wild, rampant and, disturbingly, hopeful speculation about the imminent downfall of the market leader. It's absurd and grotesque and turns me off massively.
I don't think it's restricted entirely to GW: most of the internet is now the sole preserve of people complaining about one thing or another. I love the internet. But we've turned ourselves into a community of Mary Whitehouses, just with slight variances on our chosen bugbears. Beta males upset that girls think they're beta males, so they smash the new Ghostbusters to pieces because it has women in it (obscuring the fact it was actually just a bad movie regardless). Conservatives upset that the truth has a well-known liberal bias so they create their own versions of wikipedia to redress the balance. Liberals upset that South Park won't take their side. Women upset that basement-dwelling children repeatedly violate their self-declared safe spaces, as if the declaration of such a space wasn't an active and irresistable invitation for trolling to juveniles in the first place.... (Of course, I'm also being a bit of a devils advocate with these examples, too).
And people whining that plastic figures are too expensive/have too much/too little detail/aren't for the specific faction they're interested in/changed the paint range/changed the base sizes/changed the rules/didn't make enough changes are pretty much par for the course on almost anything related to GW. I'm even joining in the negativity by pointing it out.
So, no, they're not going to open themselves up to the poisonously negative minority, and I don't blame them. Engagement needs to be fun and positive, and their light trolling in the recent videos is them tentatively dipping their toes in that water. In spite of that, there are still plenty of sharks waiting to bite their toes off and ruin it for the rest of us. I don't know if they'll ever go away.
But, as a customer, I'm actually really very happy. So whether it happens or not, I'm not that bothered. And I'm seeing the negative, poisonous individuals who tend to find any excuse to complain about GW using the fact that they won't open themselves up to more engagement to criticise them yet further and I'm finding it wonderfully absurd.
Self-awareness can go an incredibly long way.
Exactly
And when someone wants to contact GW there are enough channels available already
I read these websites for rumours about a number of different games I'm interested in. Warhammer 40,000 is one of them. I'm an old-schooler GW fan, too; I have incredibly fond memories of Rogue Trader, of buying my very first RTB 01 "beakies", as well as my first Space Marine battalion in 6mm when they issued the Epic plastics. Real old-school.
GW, for me, went downhill a little in the 90s, like it did for many old timers, but really I grew up and developed other interests like girls, guitars and booze. Then I noticed in the mid to late 2000s that they were still turning out really great figures and got into the painting side of it. It was an expensive hobby. It had always been an expensive hobby. Always.
But the forums... Oh man. The forums. Just wall-to-wall childish whining. No other fandom posts stock market figures or annual finance reports for their chosen hobby vendors with such wild, rampant and, disturbingly, hopeful speculation about the imminent downfall of the market leader. It's absurd and grotesque and turns me off massively.
I don't think it's restricted entirely to GW: most of the internet is now the sole preserve of people complaining about one thing or another. I love the internet. But we've turned ourselves into a community of Mary Whitehouses, just with slight variances on our chosen bugbears. Beta males upset that girls think they're beta males, so they smash the new Ghostbusters to pieces because it has women in it (obscuring the fact it was actually just a bad movie regardless). Conservatives upset that the truth has a well-known liberal bias so they create their own versions of wikipedia to redress the balance. Liberals upset that South Park won't take their side. Women upset that basement-dwelling children repeatedly violate their self-declared safe spaces, as if the declaration of such a space wasn't an active and irresistable invitation for trolling to juveniles in the first place.... (Of course, I'm also being a bit of a devils advocate with these examples, too).
And people whining that plastic figures are too expensive/have too much/too little detail/aren't for the specific faction they're interested in/changed the paint range/changed the base sizes/changed the rules/didn't make enough changes are pretty much par for the course on almost anything related to GW. I'm even joining in the negativity by pointing it out.
So, no, they're not going to open themselves up to the poisonously negative minority, and I don't blame them. Engagement needs to be fun and positive, and their light trolling in the recent videos is them tentatively dipping their toes in that water. In spite of that, there are still plenty of sharks waiting to bite their toes off and ruin it for the rest of us. I don't know if they'll ever go away.
But, as a customer, I'm actually really very happy. So whether it happens or not, I'm not that bothered. And I'm seeing the negative, poisonous individuals who tend to find any excuse to complain about GW using the fact that they won't open themselves up to more engagement to criticise them yet further and I'm finding it wonderfully absurd.
Self-awareness can go an incredibly long way.
And then the reasonable, truthful and thoughtful post was buried forever beneath a ceaseless mound of rage, never to see daylight again.
auticus wrote: Its a step in the right direction to me. You couldn't pay me enough to moderate a GW forum though. The old GW forums were the most toxic and degenerate forums I have ever been to in the history of my being on the internet spanning back to the mid 90s.
Ah, someone who has never been on the Planetside 2 official forum.
Warhammer Community will be attending Adepticon this year, and we can't wait!
For those of you who don't know, Adepticon is a huge independent event held every year on the outskirts of Chicago. It has become one of the highlights of the Warhammer calendar: hosting tournaments, competitions and campaigns too numerous to mention, and catering for every possible type of hobbyist.
brushcommando wrote: For me, It is exciting to see them add additional support for the Betrayal at Calth game. Looks like they've added at least 3 new scenarios to play.
brushcommando wrote: For me, It is exciting to see them add additional support for the Betrayal at Calth game. Looks like they've added at least 3 new scenarios to play.
I did a read through of the the various Facebook threads. Here are some things they said are coming.
1- a search function
2- a process for user submitted articles
3- photos of user minis ( presumably their Flickr stuff)
4- battle reports
5- how to play videos.
6-faqs They emphasise several times that this is just the beginning. They also state several times that there will not be a forum. I think they see Facebook as the place for that.
While it's a bit basic at the moment it's really good to see that this has even happened at all, hopefully it gets lots of additions. It would be great to see them bring back some of the old articles from the GW site, like Creature Corner.
Snebze wrote: Y'know.... if they'd put all of this stuff in White Dwarf, rather than filling it with adverts, people might have bought it.
Good thing they've done that now, eh?
Indeed. The new White Dwarf is a joy to read.
The basing article in the prospero one was awesome for me. I was already using the new crackle texture paint for my stormcasts, the stuff is amazing I'm never bothering with sand again, but i was going for a more sunbaked look and was a little dissappointed. Then I flip to the back of the magazine and saw a super simple wash/drybrush combo that was perfect! Bought the magazine on the spot and read pretty much the whole thing.
With SoB probably on the horizon I might needs frames for the next 2. Maybe I'll just use the ones my college degree is in...
The BaC missions are not new, are they? I haven't read all 130+ Weekly White Dwarfs but the Community page contains (literally) hundreds of former White Dwarf articles, now for free. I think this is a nice service. They still sell the old issues as ebooks on BL.com. These minigames on the community website are from the weekly WDs too. I would welcome if they add more specific tags to each article like Betrayal at Calth/Assassinorum/etc but it works pretty good already as an archive. I will print out the interesting stuff like board game rules for future use.
Warhams-77 wrote: The BaC missions are not new, are they? I haven't read all 130+ Weekly White Dwarfs but the Community page contains (literally) hundreds of former White Dwarf articles, now for free. I think this is a nice service. They still sell the old issues as ebooks on BL.com. These minigames on the community website are from the weekly WDs too. I would welcome if they add more specific tags to each article like Betrayal at Calth/Assassinorum/etc but it works pretty good already as an archive. I will print out the interesting stuff like board game rules for future use.
ekwatts wrote: I read these websites for rumours about a number of different games I'm interested in. Warhammer 40,000 is one of them. I'm an old-schooler GW fan, too; I have incredibly fond memories of Rogue Trader, of buying my very first RTB 01 "beakies", as well as my first Space Marine battalion in 6mm when they issued the Epic plastics. Real old-school.
GW, for me, went downhill a little in the 90s, like it did for many old timers, but really I grew up and developed other interests like girls, guitars and booze. Then I noticed in the mid to late 2000s that they were still turning out really great figures and got into the painting side of it. It was an expensive hobby. It had always been an expensive hobby. Always.
But the forums... Oh man. The forums. Just wall-to-wall childish whining. No other fandom posts stock market figures or annual finance reports for their chosen hobby vendors with such wild, rampant and, disturbingly, hopeful speculation about the imminent downfall of the market leader. It's absurd and grotesque and turns me off massively.
I don't think it's restricted entirely to GW: most of the internet is now the sole preserve of people complaining about one thing or another. I love the internet. But we've turned ourselves into a community of Mary Whitehouses, just with slight variances on our chosen bugbears. Beta males upset that girls think they're beta males, so they smash the new Ghostbusters to pieces because it has women in it (obscuring the fact it was actually just a bad movie regardless). Conservatives upset that the truth has a well-known liberal bias so they create their own versions of wikipedia to redress the balance. Liberals upset that South Park won't take their side. Women upset that basement-dwelling children repeatedly violate their self-declared safe spaces, as if the declaration of such a space wasn't an active and irresistable invitation for trolling to juveniles in the first place.... (Of course, I'm also being a bit of a devils advocate with these examples, too).
And people whining that plastic figures are too expensive/have too much/too little detail/aren't for the specific faction they're interested in/changed the paint range/changed the base sizes/changed the rules/didn't make enough changes are pretty much par for the course on almost anything related to GW. I'm even joining in the negativity by pointing it out.
So, no, they're not going to open themselves up to the poisonously negative minority, and I don't blame them. Engagement needs to be fun and positive, and their light trolling in the recent videos is them tentatively dipping their toes in that water. In spite of that, there are still plenty of sharks waiting to bite their toes off and ruin it for the rest of us. I don't know if they'll ever go away.
But, as a customer, I'm actually really very happy. So whether it happens or not, I'm not that bothered. And I'm seeing the negative, poisonous individuals who tend to find any excuse to complain about GW using the fact that they won't open themselves up to more engagement to criticise them yet further and I'm finding it wonderfully absurd.
Self-awareness can go an incredibly long way.
Exactly
And when someone wants to contact GW there are enough channels available already
Thanks!
I have to admit, I'm somewhat biased; I've always had a big obsession with Tzeentch and the Thousand Sons since I first started in the hobby, and the news that GW will be realising all of my wildest dreams in plastic is dizzying (Burning of Prospero is the first time I've spent more than £40 or so in one go on a GW product, and that, alongside a Thousand Sons release, will probably pull me completely back into the collection of a 40k army for the first time in a decade, rather than a few figures and units here and there to paint (or repurpose for Necromunda!)).
But even in the preceding ten years, I never held it against GW that they weren't spending precious R&D and production hours and finances on creating a comprehensive update for a niche faction of an army whose half-baked backstory captured my interest back in the old Realm of Chaos books. Why would they? And, more to the point, why should they? We can't always get what we want.
But sometimes we get lucky.
What shocks me the most, though, are those who get upset that somebody else is getting new, shiny toys. Tau update? WHAT ABOUT CHAOS?! Tyranid update? EXCELLENT CHANCE FOR ME TO WHINE ABOUT NURGLE FINECAST BOX!! New edition of 40k? HOW DARE THEY UPDATE THE RULES AND CHANGE THE WAY WE PLAY!!
Even now, with the obvious, glaring changes being made to the way that GW engages with fans, creates new products and content and fulfils several decade-long dreams over things like Specialist Games, the poison keeps pouring.
But as much as GW changes, the bitter scions of their imminent downfall will continue to howl their contempt at every move they make. I'm an arch cynic, believe me. But I refuse to become so cynical about a company that produces (fantastic) little plastic figures (even when they aren't for my specifically niche army faction).
Anyway, I look forward to more negativity. Hey, how about somebody bring up Malal to make themselves look clever and knowledgable on archaic and irrelevant 40k trivia?
I really hope they allow people to submit articles or batreps etc.
Theres some great material from people on this very site and elsewhere that would be great to have on the site.
Ratius wrote: I really hope they allow people to submit articles or batreps etc.
Theres some great material from people on this very site and elsewhere that would be great to have on the site.
Now there's an excellent idea. They're already covering third party events as there was an opening article about Ardacon for the Hobbit sbg. I reckon fan submitted stuff could be a very cool thing to see.
Vorian wrote: They didn't go round clubbing seals on a corporate level.
]
Look up the Chapterhouse case or Spots the Space Marine when you have some free time.
I followed it all. A company is allowed to try and protect its IP. It didn't do it particularly well but it doesn't make it an evil empire.
It's very nice to see GW becoming better at all the things it's improving on now, but the anger from some people was (and still is) a little bit ridiculous.
But as has been said, it's the internet and it's full of it.
Having commented on the negativity at all is playing into the negativity; that's the thing with trolls. They require feeding, and that's effectively exactly what I was doing.
I just made it exceptionally clear in my last sentence for comic effect.
So fair enough; it was a cheap shot and not a particularly funny joke, but I hope pointing it out brought you some measure of closure and happiness in this frightening world.
@Ekwatts, Congratulations, you just made my top ten list of awesome people I've found on the hobby forums.
Ratius wrote: I really hope they allow people to submit articles or batreps etc.
Theres some great material from people on this very site and elsewhere that would be great to have on the site.
A fairly lengthy and detailed tactics article by Ben Curry (who does not work for GW) just went up. It is this kind of thing that has been absent from the previous online stuff and it is something we will hopefully see more of.
If the only thing we get form the community site is more articles like this and an increasing openness about rumours, then it will be enough to for me.
It seems this may have been skipped over in the adepticon news but it seems to be quite a big deal. GW's stupidly short preview window makes planning purchases impossible. More than once I have bought something one month only for something I have benn waiting for to come out the next month. Because of this if I have £100 to spend every three months I now end up spending nothing rather than buying something that might not be quite as cool as next months release. If GW is finally loosening this up to about a 3 month preview window I will be very happy. GW has their next event in January I hope they preview their spring releases then.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Excellent. Tremendous step in the right direction. Shame you took two massive leaps backwards this week with the 1KSons prices.
At times I feel like there is a war going on at GW between the old 'we will never reduce prices' guard and the new 'look how well the cheap bundles sell' team.
This looks like the new team is winning this particular battle. They must have access to the metrics from the new site. I would not be surprised if all the rumour stuff is by far the most read content. The short rumour window and the high prices do not go together well. anything over a tenner will never be an impulse purchase for me.
Just had my first look at the new site and colour me pleasantly surprised! I actually found articles I liked to read(particularly Duncan's first mini and the how to photograph article).
Seems no search which is bummer but that can be fixed later if their database is even remotely decently designed so here's hoping it comes later when more articles are there.
Thanks GW. More of these kind of steps please! If 8th edition of 40k is by some miracle good enough to draw me out of 2nd ed I might be back as GW customer after a long pause. Didn't think chance of that is big but GW has given enough surprises this year that even hell might freeze...
So GW are currently live streaming two events simultaneously!
Twitch.tv/warhammer and twitch.tv/warhammercommunitytv I hope people find time to watch. My fear is, if they are not popular, GW will give up.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Excellent. Tremendous step in the right direction. Shame you took two massive leaps backwards this week with the 1KSons prices.
At times I feel like there is a war going on at GW between the old 'we will never reduce prices' guard and the new 'look how well the cheap bundles sell' team.
This looks like the new team is winning this particular battle. They must have access to the metrics from the new site. I would not be surprised if all the rumour stuff is by far the most read content. The short rumour window and the high prices do not go together well. anything over a tenner will never be an impulse purchase for me.
You missed the third faction at GW, the one actually in control that raises prices further every release.
These miniatures are great, but the prices aren't just high, they're ludicrous.
Australia and NZ definitely get boned on pricing. The rest of the world sees gw pricing being rather stagnant and them improving almost everywhere else.
I love that they are streaming two events at once.
You missed the third faction at GW, the one actually in control that raises prices further every release.
These miniatures are great, but the prices aren't just high, they're ludicrous.
I wrote their local prices off years ago. The only things I buy locally are the WD sub, the odd pot of paint and anything hat I need to order direct (because sometimes that's cheaper than eBay, especially on LotR stuff). I bought some stuff from a local discounter earlier in an ill-fated attempt to support someone local, but when he turned out to be a completely immature child and rude fethwit, I found better, cheaper suppliers overseas. Who usually ship faster, to boot.
