With Wrath of Magnus around the corner I was wondering what other peoples notions on it from the little information we have to go on. First I have to say im not impressed with the new Tson range. While its cool we are getting models at all I wish just a tad bit more effort had been put into them. As far as fluff goes I think it will be same copy/paste story GW has been running for the past few years. Chaos loses but makes the imperials "pay for it" It would be great for them to go out on a limb and actually serve the wolves with a straight up beating and loss of their chapter planet allowing for better story telling between the two factions in the future. But it wont happen. I expect more of the same in the fluff department.

On the crunch end of the spectrum I am also skeptical. It looks like they are putting a emphasis on sorcs with discs's, which is awesome modeling and fluff, but unless they are giving screamers the KDK treatment and making them fearless those very same sorcs will see no play in most armies for obvious reasons. Magnus will probably be a glass cannon, much like other DPs that are not shrouded and jinking but they may actually give him a toughness that DPs should have in the first place. I am also wagering the chaos tax will be in full effect across the board. But on the bright side. It looks like we are getting a new terminator weapon or it could just be a fancy assault cannon. The awful Tz discipline will probably be replaced at least for the Tsons themselves but hopefully faction wide. I also find it a bit odd that they have chosen the Tsons to focus on when they also are releasing a traitor legion supplement in the future, as Tsons never really seemed that popular. At least not as popular as the other legions. Perhaps they get the love due to being the best faction to fight the wolves in fluff or perhaps its an effort to give chaos players a tourney worthy list that doesnt involve 5 books and a prayer.

So what are your thoughts? If I have not seen critical pieces of leaked into that would answer any of the questions or statements I have made, then I apologize for it. Im working with the information I have on hand, which is a few pictures.

I'm holding back on thoughts until we understand how wrath of magnus relates to the traitor legion supplement. There's a small chance it might be a completely new approach for GW to handle sub factions. I'm hoping they are indeed faction csm and the whole faction:TSons thing is our equivalent of chapter tactics, but maybe I'm just delirious.

I'm gonna become really vulnerable here and open up to share all of my hopes and dreams.

- I hope Magnus will be a GMC and he will be completely unmatched on the board when it comes to the psychic phase.
- I hope that the Tsons keep there 4+ invul due to aura and mark of Tz but their price is lowered conciderably.
- I hope that, now that they get heavy weapons, they will keep S&P.
- I hope we get TzDK so we can use Daemons with marines.
- I hope we get sorceror formations that make a TzDK army completely dominate the psychic phase.
- I hope that brotherhood of sorcerors becomes a blanket thing in the new supplement.
- And above all I hope Fenris burns.

Will all of this come true? Probably not. Will I be disappointed? Most likely. But my heart has been broken too many times now for me to feel it when GW break it again.

- I hope Magnus will be a GMC and he will be completely unmatched on the board when it comes to the psychic phase.

Considering he is the size of an Imperial Ttian, it would be strange if he wasn't.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

- I hope Magnus will be a GMC and he will be completely unmatched on the board when it comes to the psychic phase.

Considering he is the size of an Imperial Ttian, it would be strange if he wasn't.

Which is why myself, and many other people, will be incredibly disappointed if he isn't.

I'm a big fan of the models. I'm likely going to buy some. Love the look and aesthetic of them.
The Magnus model itself is about the size of an imperial knight (http://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/19/this-december-all-is-dust-and-loads-of-new-books/), so I hope he's GMC.

What I'm not so excited about is that it's a codex supplement, meaning the bigger issues of the CSM codex are still there save for the few units special to the 1k Sons.

wait so Magnus and Ahriman made up?

LightKing wrote:
wait so Magnus and Ahriman made up?

The post-make up kissing was really awkward, what with Magnus being a 40' tall bird-man and Ahriman not taking his armour off.

Edit: I don't actually know if they made up, I just wanted to make the joke.

 JNAProductions wrote:

LightKing wrote:
wait so Magnus and Ahriman made up?

The post-make up kissing was really awkward, what with Magnus being a 40' tall bird-man and Ahriman not taking his armour off.

Edit: I don't actually know if they made up, I just wanted to make the joke.

makes me wonder...does Magnus still have authority over the Thousand Sons now, or Ahriman?

LightKing wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

LightKing wrote:
wait so Magnus and Ahriman made up?

The post-make up kissing was really awkward, what with Magnus being a 40' tall bird-man and Ahriman not taking his armour off.

Edit: I don't actually know if they made up, I just wanted to make the joke.

makes me wonder...does Magnus still have authority over the Thousand Sons now, or Ahriman?

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say there's probably still a split. Some go with Magnus, since he's just plain more powerful than Ahriman. Some go with Ahriman, since he tried to help them all that time ago and has been with them this whole time.

The only question I have is fluff wise, does this take place will Fenris is under siege by the Dark Angles? or is this a re-write of the M32. attack on Fenris?

 mrhappyface wrote:
- I hope we get TzDK so we can use Daemons with marines.

This is all I really want, to be able to use these daemons I have with new stuff completely monogod and without needing a bunch of books, formations or detachments to run it. Not that i'd mind a bunch of formations to use either.

 kinratha wrote:
The only question I have is fluff wise, does this take place will Fenris is under siege by the Dark Angles? or is this a re-write of the M32. attack on Fenris?

This is a continuation of Warzone Fenris part 1 I believe.

 n0t_u wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
- I hope we get TzDK so we can use Daemons with marines.

This is all I really want, to be able to use these daemons I have with new stuff completely monogod and without needing a bunch of books, formations or detachments to run it. Not that i'd mind a bunch of formations to use either.

I also want this. I want daemonkin codexes for each god so that Codex CSM and Codex Daemons are for playing undivided armies and the Daemonkin codexes are for mono god armies

LightKing wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

LightKing wrote:
wait so Magnus and Ahriman made up?

The post-make up kissing was really awkward, what with Magnus being a 40' tall bird-man and Ahriman not taking his armour off.

Edit: I don't actually know if they made up, I just wanted to make the joke.

makes me wonder...does Magnus still have authority over the Thousand Sons now, or Ahriman?

Magnus, he himself mentions in the vid the loyal sons and those who went their own path, but despite that they are still his sons.

 Flanker wrote:
I'm a big fan of the models. I'm likely going to buy some. Love the look and aesthetic of them.
The Magnus model itself is about the size of an imperial knight (http://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/19/this-december-all-is-dust-and-loads-of-new-books/), so I hope he's GMC.

What I'm not so excited about is that it's a codex supplement, meaning the bigger issues of the CSM codex are still there save for the few units special to the 1k Sons.

Sadly, chaos has once again missed the boat. Im thinking the age of codexs are over. Now is the age of supplements and warzone books. They will attempt to fix faction balance a bit at a time, all the while taking more and more of your money. Why sell one codex to one player when you can sell a warzone book to two players. Im thinking the only time we are going to see a codex in the future is with the release of new models for the range or to introduce a new faction. Cant say im happy about it, but I cant argue with the business strategy.

Blue Tsons on the cover of a Magnus book.

You've done it again GW.

The only real consequence is that Rubrics might get better depending how good the weapon options are. I have a guess for the flamer but that cannon thing I haven't the slightest clue on what the plausible stats are.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The only real consequence is that Rubrics might get better depending how good the weapon options are. I have a guess for the flamer but that cannon thing I haven't the slightest clue on what the plausible stats are.

I would imagine it would work just like an assault cannon

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The only real consequence is that Rubrics might get better depending how good the weapon options are. I have a guess for the flamer but that cannon thing I haven't the slightest clue on what the plausible stats are.

I would imagine it would work just like an assault cannon

But with Soul Blaze!

I rather like the look of this, both the Traitor Legion supplement (please for the love of Horus make it decent!) and the 1k Sons models.

What I want the most from this?
Space Wolves to lose. PLEASE.

My biggest worry?
The Space Wolves won't lose.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I rather like the look of this, both the Traitor Legion supplement (please for the love of Horus make it decent!) and the 1k Sons models.

What I want the most from this?
Space Wolves to lose. PLEASE.

My biggest worry?
The Space Wolves won't lose.

What about Russ coming back to save the wolves?

LightKing wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I rather like the look of this, both the Traitor Legion supplement (please for the love of Horus make it decent!) and the 1k Sons models.

What I want the most from this?
Space Wolves to lose. PLEASE.

My biggest worry?
The Space Wolves won't lose.

What about Russ coming back to save the wolves?

GW said Russ won't be coming back, it will be a different primarch.

 mrhappyface wrote:
I'm gonna become really vulnerable here and open up to share all of my hopes and dreams.

- I hope Magnus will be a GMC and he will be completely unmatched on the board when it comes to the psychic phase.
- I hope that the Tsons keep there 4+ invul due to aura and mark of Tz but their price is lowered conciderably.
- I hope that, now that they get heavy weapons, they will keep S&P.
- I hope we get TzDK so we can use Daemons with marines.
- I hope we get sorceror formations that make a TzDK army completely dominate the psychic phase.
- I hope that brotherhood of sorcerors becomes a blanket thing in the new supplement.
- And above all I hope Fenris burns.

Will all of this come true? Probably not. Will I be disappointed? Most likely. But my heart has been broken too many times now for me to feel it when GW break it again.

I have nothing to add to that

Particularly the final point. A compromise where half the planet is taken over by Magnus wouldn't suck, but ideally they'll take or destroy Fenris completely. It would be such a cool step because it would show chaos aren't just a pantomime villain, and it wouldn't even have major implications to the setting because the traitor legions lost their home planets but still exist in the game... the same can be said for the SW

 Snake Tortoise wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
I'm gonna become really vulnerable here and open up to share all of my hopes and dreams.

- I hope Magnus will be a GMC and he will be completely unmatched on the board when it comes to the psychic phase.
- I hope that the Tsons keep there 4+ invul due to aura and mark of Tz but their price is lowered conciderably.
- I hope that, now that they get heavy weapons, they will keep S&P.
- I hope we get TzDK so we can use Daemons with marines.
- I hope we get sorceror formations that make a TzDK army completely dominate the psychic phase.
- I hope that brotherhood of sorcerors becomes a blanket thing in the new supplement.
- And above all I hope Fenris burns.

Will all of this come true? Probably not. Will I be disappointed? Most likely. But my heart has been broken too many times now for me to feel it when GW break it again.

I have nothing to add to that

Particularly the final point. A compromise where half the planet is taken over by Magnus wouldn't suck, but ideally they'll take or destroy Fenris completely. It would be such a cool step because it would show chaos aren't just a pantomime villain, and it wouldn't even have major implications to the setting because the traitor legions lost their home planets but still exist in the game... the same can be said for the SW

Actually not true. Space Wolves can only be made from the people of Fenris, so if Fenris is destroyed than the wolves days are numbered

And good riddance.

 TheLumberJack wrote:


Actually not true. Space Wolves can only be made from the people of Fenris, so if Fenris is destroyed than the wolves days are numbered

That doesn't really matter when the setting moves as slowly as it does. The entire eldar race's days have been numbered since the 40k setting was conceived and they're still around. The Imperium as a whole is considered to be hanging on desperately so it doesn't really matter if one of the chapters can no longer recruit new members. If GW someday decide to move the setting to 50k (doesn't seem remotely likely at the moment) they can just retcon the SW fluff or come up with some new way of recruiting new space wolves

Or just squat them

 mrhappyface wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The only real consequence is that Rubrics might get better depending how good the weapon options are. I have a guess for the flamer but that cannon thing I haven't the slightest clue on what the plausible stats are.

I would imagine it would work just like an assault cannon

But with Soul Blaze!

Instead of Rending!

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The only real consequence is that Rubrics might get better depending how good the weapon options are. I have a guess for the flamer but that cannon thing I haven't the slightest clue on what the plausible stats are.

I would imagine it would work just like an assault cannon

But with Soul Blaze!

Instead of Rending!

YAAAAY!

 TheLumberJack wrote:

 Snake Tortoise wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
I'm gonna become really vulnerable here and open up to share all of my hopes and dreams.

- I hope Magnus will be a GMC and he will be completely unmatched on the board when it comes to the psychic phase.
- I hope that the Tsons keep there 4+ invul due to aura and mark of Tz but their price is lowered conciderably.
- I hope that, now that they get heavy weapons, they will keep S&P.
- I hope we get TzDK so we can use Daemons with marines.
- I hope we get sorceror formations that make a TzDK army completely dominate the psychic phase.
- I hope that brotherhood of sorcerors becomes a blanket thing in the new supplement.
- And above all I hope Fenris burns.

Will all of this come true? Probably not. Will I be disappointed? Most likely. But my heart has been broken too many times now for me to feel it when GW break it again.

I have nothing to add to that

Particularly the final point. A compromise where half the planet is taken over by Magnus wouldn't suck, but ideally they'll take or destroy Fenris completely. It would be such a cool step because it would show chaos aren't just a pantomime villain, and it wouldn't even have major implications to the setting because the traitor legions lost their home planets but still exist in the game... the same can be said for the SW

Actually not true. Space Wolves can only be made from the people of Fenris, so if Fenris is destroyed than the wolves days are numbered

I'm sure their fleets have enough Fenrisians crewing the ships that they could make due for a while.

Space Wolves losing? Ha, you wish!

...me too :( To hell with Fenris! The Crimson King shall have his vengeance!

 mrhappyface wrote:

LightKing wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I rather like the look of this, both the Traitor Legion supplement (please for the love of Horus make it decent!) and the 1k Sons models.

What I want the most from this?
Space Wolves to lose. PLEASE.

My biggest worry?
The Space Wolves won't lose.

What about Russ coming back to save the wolves?

GW said Russ won't be coming back, it will be a different primarch.

when did GW say Russ wasn't coming back?

I've been hoping for Chaos to succeed at something for quite a while, now. We'll see if it actually comes to fruition or if there will be a last minute "save the day" by somebody like Grimnar or the 13th Company (Hell, watch the Wolf Brothers come storming out of nowhere!). Since SW was my first army, but I also have a crush on the Thousand Suns, I'm torn. I was more hoping for a Black Crusade victory, but I'll make do!
Or, maybe the TS will expose the secret beneath Fenris and reveal they're warp-tainted or something.

LightKing wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

LightKing wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I rather like the look of this, both the Traitor Legion supplement (please for the love of Horus make it decent!) and the 1k Sons models.

What I want the most from this?
Space Wolves to lose. PLEASE.

My biggest worry?
The Space Wolves won't lose.

What about Russ coming back to save the wolves?

GW said Russ won't be coming back, it will be a different primarch.

when did GW say Russ wasn't coming back?

Sorry, I got that wrong. Sad Panda said Russ won't be the first to come back, not GW.

 MarsNZ wrote:
Blue Tsons on the cover of a Magnus book.

You've done it again GW.

In War of the Fang we learn that Magnus has ordered all his followers to paint their armour blue.
We don't know canoically why. Maybe to build bridges with Ahriman.

Captyn_Bob wrote:


In War of the Fang we learn that Magnus has ordered all his followers to paint their armour blue.
We don't know canoically why. Maybe to build bridges with Ahriman.

He forsaw gw would screw up with colors eventually.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Considering he is the size of an Imperial Ttian, it would be strange if he wasn't.

Nah bruv. T6, like all the big things that aren't Eldar.'

Nah T5, like a normal Daemon Prince.

And he'll be 999 points, because Tzeentch or something.

t4 cause he didn't betray.

He is nor marine neither eldar or tau...so T5 and, indeed, 999.

Because GW loves keep lore with point cost from the dark gods.



Aaaand of course the Sisters of Silence will eat him. They are inmune to his powers, they broke him at melee and they weaken Magnus effectiveness in general.



Acutally They are the pain of the new Tsons army, since any impreium army will be able to carry them (one or 2 at least). And they cost more or less like a chaos squad with a melta... but with impressibe rules.


That is something feth me hard...finally give some love to chaos, and give to all imperium armies a broke troop that blow up magic (so no powers neither nice summons). Because every time they give something new to chaos, give something new "and better" to the imperium xDDD

Well i am still waiting they give to chaos something to vanish graviton shots xDD

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Nah T5, like a normal Daemon Prince.

And he'll be 999 points, because Tzeentch or something.

I expect (doh) nothing less from the brain trust at GW creative. I swear its like they dont want to sell models sometimes.

Table wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Nah T5, like a normal Daemon Prince.

And he'll be 999 points, because Tzeentch or something.

I suspect nothing less from the brain trust at GW creative. I swear its like they dont want to sell models sometimes.

Indeed. I still feel very strange that a nurgle spawn is harder to kill than a nurgle dameon prince hahahahaha. The T5 for something so expensive as a DP equiped (armor, wins, weapon, mark...) is like a joke.

But the worst is the loss of eternal warrior, since now a S10 attack autokills the DP.

Franarok wrote:
He is nor marine neither eldar or tau...so T5 and, indeed, 999.

Because GW loves keep lore with point cost from the dark gods.



Aaaand of course the Sisters of Silence will eat him. They are inmune to his powers, they broke him at melee and they weaken Magnus effectiveness in general.



Acutally They are the pain of the new Tsons army, since any impreium army will be able to carry them (one or 2 at least). And they cost more or less like a chaos squad with a melta... but with impressibe rules.


That is something feth me hard...finally give some love to chaos, and give to all imperium armies a broke troop that blow up magic (so no powers neither nice summons). Because every time they give something new to chaos, give something new "and better" to the imperium xDDD

Well i am still waiting they give to chaos something to vanish graviton shots xDD

Chaos having any advantage on the table top cannot be tolerated. If chaos can put up a fight then the space marine customer base is at risk. And considering thats 75% of 40k sales.........you do the math. But in all seriousness. Most CSM players should have accepted the fact by now that we will always be at a disadvantage. Its just how it has been since 3.5 and how it will it will continue to be until a certain someone retires (half joking). If you play CSM, and havent accepted this, then you are in for a bad time. Not saying we cant push out a good list with 5 books and some know how Just we will never have an advantage over imperial players (space marines).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Franarok wrote:

Table wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Nah T5, like a normal Daemon Prince.

And he'll be 999 points, because Tzeentch or something.

I suspect nothing less from the brain trust at GW creative. I swear its like they dont want to sell models sometimes.

Indeed. I still feel very strange that a nurgle spawn is harder to kill than a nurgle dameon prince hahahahaha. The T5 for something so expensive as a DP equiped (armor, wins, weapon, mark...) is like a joke.

But the worst is the loss of eternal warrior, since now a S10 attack autokills the DP.

The only prince you can run in a semi-comp game is either a nurgle prince with black mace + wings or belakor. I dont see that changing anytime soon. You just have to pray your foe is not packing something str 10 with ignores cover.

It's just very cheeky.....They will give chaos new powers and new army units focused on powers..............and they give the sisters of silence to imperium...OMG.

And wait to see the new sisters and GK rules, because sure cut in half powers and demons like butter hahaha.


No mention the comparison between the formations and decurions rules between marines and csm xDD



This traitor legions will be, of course, welcomed! I love it and love the new figures. but omg, give a book to the imperium to break the new chaos one is not fair......

Because there are no other armies with lack of content or with rubbish rules (orks, I am looking at you xD), so they need release more imperium ones because they dont have any supplements and all their armies are low low tier...

Franarok wrote:
...Because there are no other armies with lack of content or with rubbish rules (orks, I am looking at you xD), so they need release more imperium ones because they dont have any supplements and all their armies are low low tier...

This release is hitting three of the four armies most in need of drastic overhauls in models/rules (CSM, Sisters, and Inquisition, missing Orks). Orks may be low-tier but at least everything's in plastic now (Cult Marines are Finecast, Sisters are metal, and Inquisitorial Henchmen mostly don't exist at all).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Table wrote:
The only prince you can run in a semi-comp game is either a nurgle prince with black mace + wings or belakor. I dont see that changing anytime soon. You just have to pray your foe is not packing something str 10 with ignores cover.

S10/Ignore Cover is pretty hard to come by. It exists on the most broken tank in the game (Typhon), the second most broken tank in the game (Hellhammer), the most broken infantry unit in the game (Wraithguard), and some bizarre Guard artillery lists, off the top of my head.

And vindicator squadrons

 Roknar wrote:
And vindicator squadrons

Yes. If none of the three Side 11/Rear 10 vehicles in the Vindicator squadron is dead it can pretend to be a short-ranged Typhon. You should have the range/mobility to do something about it before it one-shots one of your DPs.

Why not just run a couple wolves on a wolves with a fist and 3++ and insta wolf the dp for 1/2 the cost?

On the other hand an apocalyptic blast is big enough to catch the prince turn one if you get unlucky. Still, he's way more likely to be squished in close combat by STR 10 than shooting. Does forgeworld give tau any Str 10 railguns? What about conversion beamers, are those forgeworld only? Wait, nvm, those don't get ignore cover do they? Short of being psychically buffed anyway.

My wrath of magnus predictions

-Dark angels bomb the ever loving gak outta Fenris
-Wolfen come up and kick the gak outta the dark angels
-Russ is finally announced, and goes aboard the rock himself to punch Azrial in the dick for getting tricked to bomb the planet.
-russ punches Azrial in the dick
-Russ then becomes the only actual person to check the broom closet aboard to rock and finds lion and wakes him up
-Punches the lion in the dick
-Russ gets punched in the dick by lion
-They have a bro moment
-All this time Magnus has been setting fire to fenris.
-Lion El, and Russ team up and tell the dark angels and wolves to stop fighting like a bunch of nobs and kick the book worms ass.
-While thats going on, Magnus manages to bring his brother outta the warp, and fulgrim shows up with his legion in tow.
-under the combined might of 2 legions, fenris falls
-The space wolves escape with the dark angels, and become a fleet based chapter that travels with the dark angels from then on out.

And queue start of the end times with russ and lion on the IoM side, and Fulgrim and Magnus on the traitor side.

OH! and when russ came back, it turns out his rumored quest really was true. He dipped into the warp to try and find Isha's tree of life. Did not find the tree, so instead he rescued her from nurgal with the deal that she would heal his brother primarch and the big E soon.

 Roknar wrote:
On the other hand an apocalyptic blast is big enough to catch the prince turn one if you get unlucky. Still, he's way more likely to be squished in close combat by STR 10 than shooting. Does forgeworld give tau any Str 10 railguns? What about conversion beamers, are those forgeworld only? Wait, nvm, those don't get ignore cover do they? Short of being psychically buffed anyway.

Hammerheads are still S10, yes, forgot them.

So long shot, but you think if a psyker is lucky enough he could actually banish Magnus?

Honestly I'm quite excited. Anytime where you see several new models to a codex which hasn't had new ones in years, you got to be pumped. What I'm hoping for:

1) Reduction in points for Thousand Son squad. In addition to that, the upcoming Traitor Legion book should have a slight point cost reduction in Plague, Noise, and Berserkers. Cult Marines are the biggest flavor difference with regular marines and CSM players should be able to play more of these specialized units. I can let go the fact that marines can spam grav guns if Thousand Sons units get a 15-25 point cost drop. Also, addiing heavy weapons to the 1K Sons is awesome and hopefully, we can see that Assault cannon at AP3?

2) Reduction on cost on Marks and Icons or incorporate army wide rules that give these marks/icons to all units within a detachment.

3) That Wrath of Magnus incorporates some flavor of the rules that have been in place for KDK, Genestealers, or BL Cabal, that provide unique tactics for Tzeentch armies.

4) Magnus?! How can you not be excited about that? Probably a LoW with wraithknight like power. Add psyker abilities to that... cross you fingers for this unit to be under 500 points.

It's going to be exciting to see Thousand Sons and hopefully other cult marines get more time on the table top and less time collecting dust in the closet. /cross fingers

 Bach wrote:
Honestly I'm quite excited. Anytime where you see several new models to a codex which hasn't had new ones in years, you got to be pumped. What I'm hoping for:

1) Reduction in points for Thousand Son squad. In addition to that, the upcoming Traitor Legion book should have a slight point cost reduction in Plague, Noise, and Berserkers. Cult Marines are the biggest flavor difference with regular marines and CSM players should be able to play more of these specialized units. I can let go the fact that marines can spam grav guns if Thousand Sons units get a 15-25 point cost drop. Also, addiing heavy weapons to the 1K Sons is awesome and hopefully, we can see that Assault cannon at AP3?

2) Reduction on cost on Marks and Icons or incorporate army wide rules that give these marks/icons to all units within a detachment.

3) That Wrath of Magnus incorporates some flavor of the rules that have been in place for KDK, Genestealers, or BL Cabal, that provide unique tactics for Tzeentch armies.

4) Magnus?! How can you not be excited about that? Probably a LoW with wraithknight like power. Add psyker abilities to that... cross you fingers for this unit to be under 500 points.

It's going to be exciting to see Thousand Sons and hopefully other cult marines get more time on the table top and less time collecting dust in the closet. /cross fingers

Rumors, again so not very much to go off of, was i heard he is like 600 points, and has some crazy spells. One being he can make his opponant reroll any d3 dice of his choosing. per turn.

OK, 600 points is starting to get up there. I guess we will have to wait and see how survivable the unit is. If Magnus can weather a couple of turns of focused fire, 600 points will still probably be worth it. I'm looking at it like this:

Survivable like a Wraithknight - thumbs up @ 600 points

Survivable like a Stormsurge - thumbs down @ 600 points

 Bach wrote:
OK, 600 points is starting to get up there. I guess we will have to wait and see how survivable the unit is. If Magnus can weather a couple of turns of focused fire, 600 points will still probably be worth it. I'm looking at it like this:

Survivable like a Wraithknight - thumbs up @ 600 points

Survivable like a Stormsurge - thumbs down @ 600 points

Again these are just rumors.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
And vindicator squadrons

Yes. If none of the three Side 11/Rear 10 vehicles in the Vindicator squadron is dead it can pretend to be a short-ranged Typhon. You should have the range/mobility to do something about it before it one-shots one of your DPs.

I would agree that in most cases I would not fear a Vindicator squadron as a DPoN. But lets not pretend that DTR10 ingores cover is the only thing that can instant-gib a DPoN. Tau Rail Guns and marker lights can hose him down as well. Or Tau destroyer missles with markerlights. Now Its true, that unless the tau player is sporting 12+ markerlights to shoot at the DPoN then both of those things wont happen often. Unlless of course there is a way to fire markerlights with ignores cover ( if thats the case the DPoN is screwed bad). But none of this is the only way to kill a DPoN. It seems that Tau probably have the most ways to deal with a DPoN.

I don't know why people expect point reductions. Look to the Tau supplement to see where things are going. Options added, but nothing technically changed or removed. Rubrics will be copy/pasted with the flamer, rotor cannon and new psychic disciplines added, nothing more.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't know why people expect point reductions. Look to the Tau supplement to see where things are going. Options added, but nothing technically changed or removed. Rubrics will be copy/pasted with the flamer, rotor cannon and new psychic disciplines added, nothing more.

Yep, ill 100% agree that nothing is getting reduced in price. It didnt happen for KDK and it sure as hell wont happen for a supplement. The chaos tax shall live on.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
My wrath of magnus predictions

-Dark angels bomb the ever loving gak outta Fenris
-Wolfen come up and kick the gak outta the dark angels
-Russ is finally announced, and goes aboard the rock himself to punch Azrial in the dick for getting tricked to bomb the planet.
-russ punches Azrial in the dick
-Russ then becomes the only actual person to check the broom closet aboard to rock and finds lion and wakes him up
-Punches the lion in the dick
-Russ gets punched in the dick by lion
-They have a bro moment
-All this time Magnus has been setting fire to fenris.
-Lion El, and Russ team up and tell the dark angels and wolves to stop fighting like a bunch of nobs and kick the book worms ass.
-While thats going on, Magnus manages to bring his brother outta the warp, and fulgrim shows up with his legion in tow.
-under the combined might of 2 legions, fenris falls
-The space wolves escape with the dark angels, and become a fleet based chapter that travels with the dark angels from then on out.

And queue start of the end times with russ and lion on the IoM side, and Fulgrim and Magnus on the traitor side.

OH! and when russ came back, it turns out his rumored quest really was true. He dipped into the warp to try and find Isha's tree of life. Did not find the tree, so instead he rescued her from nurgal with the deal that she would heal his brother primarch and the big E soon.

Laughed my arse out at this one.

Here's some apparently leaked list of the new tzeentch discipline:

Successfully harnessing your warp charges forces opponents to re-roll successful deny the witch.

Primaris: +2 to invulns, passed saves reflect s3 ap3 blind hits back
1: reroll all to hit rolls for one unit for one turn
2: pick the result of one dice in your turn
3: a unit's weapons gain Force
4: 3d6" S: d6 AP: d6 Assault d6 Witchfire
5: you an opponent roll off and add the number of WC you want to spend, loser takes the difference in totals in Perils rolls
6 - 12" S: D AP- line, starts at -2 on the D table but you can spend extra warp charges to offset this

Magnus gets the Rubric too, 12" Nova that works like Mind War and transforms things it kills into new 1kSons/Spawn

Mr ghoti wrote:
Here's some apparently leaked list of the new tzeentch discipline:

Successfully harnessing your warp charges forces opponents to re-roll successful deny the witch.

Primaris: +2 to invulns, passed saves reflect s3 ap3 blind hits back
1: reroll all to hit rolls for one unit for one turn
2: pick the result of one dice in your turn
3: a unit's weapons gain Force
4: 3d6" S: d6 AP: d6 Assault d6 Witchfire
5: you an opponent roll off and add the number of WC you want to spend, loser takes the difference in totals in Perils rolls
6 - 12" S: D AP- line, starts at -2 on the D table but you can spend extra warp charges to offset this

Magnus gets the Rubric too, 12" Nova that works like Mind War and transforms things it kills into new 1kSons/Spawn

Where is this leak? Because this sounds incredibly wish-listy.

Yea, that has whishlisting written all over it. Not buying it.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
My wrath of magnus predictions

-Dark angels bomb the ever loving gak outta Fenris
-Wolfen come up and kick the gak outta the dark angels
-Russ is finally announced, and goes aboard the rock himself to punch Azrial in the dick for getting tricked to bomb the planet.
-russ punches Azrial in the dick
-Russ then becomes the only actual person to check the broom closet aboard to rock and finds lion and wakes him up
-Punches the lion in the dick
-Russ gets punched in the dick by lion
-They have a bro moment
-All this time Magnus has been setting fire to fenris.
-Lion El, and Russ team up and tell the dark angels and wolves to stop fighting like a bunch of nobs and kick the book worms ass.
-While thats going on, Magnus manages to bring his brother outta the warp, and fulgrim shows up with his legion in tow.
-under the combined might of 2 legions, fenris falls
-The space wolves escape with the dark angels, and become a fleet based chapter that travels with the dark angels from then on out.

And queue start of the end times with russ and lion on the IoM side, and Fulgrim and Magnus on the traitor side.

OH! and when russ came back, it turns out his rumored quest really was true. He dipped into the warp to try and find Isha's tree of life. Did not find the tree, so instead he rescued her from nurgal with the deal that she would heal his brother primarch and the big E soon.

Laughed my arse out at this one.

I did as well, but I wouldn't mind this storyline.

I'm just waiting to see the look on the wolves faces when they look up see the dark angels and think "we are saved" and then the DA and crew virus bomb the planet. Sadly though, since they brought a sizeable ground contingent, I doubt planet scale exterminatus from space is their goal. Instead I think they plan on capturing the wolves and checking for corruption. Which will inevitably lead to a tense moment, some casualties, and then all of the imperial forces singing kumbaya and finally getting jumped by the T-Sons and armies of demons.

I expect fenris to fall, because that is a nice counter point to the burning of prospero. I also expect another primarch will return, Russ or the Lion would be the obvious choices since we are pretty sure they are there or near by. Though both of them showing up to fight the now monstrously strong Magnus has some appeal as well. Especially since the two of them could lead to a civil war in the imperium.

 Grimgold wrote:

I expect fenris to fall, because that is a nice counter point to the burning of prospero.

I definitely do not expect Fenris to fall.

Likely there will be a lot of dramatic storytelling, but not so much will change in the Imperium.

I think that's the plan, mix up 40k by changing some of the details, because in the end the wolves being fleet based isn't a big deal, but chaos getting a tic mark in the W column is. Chaos needs victories to be perceived as a threat, and they have precious few of those. Taking a fight to the Wolves, beating one of the strongest chapters on their home turf, and burning the world to the ground is exactly the kind of thing to give Chaos some street cred.

Bringing Magnus back only to be stopped and Fenris saved would be a buzzkill. Hoping that they instead choose to advance a more interesting storyline that maybe ties into the Black Crusade supplement.

 Freytag93 wrote:

Mr ghoti wrote:
Here's some apparently leaked list of the new tzeentch discipline:

Successfully harnessing your warp charges forces opponents to re-roll successful deny the witch.

Primaris: +2 to invulns, passed saves reflect s3 ap3 blind hits back
1: reroll all to hit rolls for one unit for one turn
2: pick the result of one dice in your turn
3: a unit's weapons gain Force
4: 3d6" S: d6 AP: d6 Assault d6 Witchfire
5: you an opponent roll off and add the number of WC you want to spend, loser takes the difference in totals in Perils rolls
6 - 12" S: D AP- line, starts at -2 on the D table but you can spend extra warp charges to offset this

Magnus gets the Rubric too, 12" Nova that works like Mind War and transforms things it kills into new 1kSons/Spawn

Where is this leak? Because this sounds incredibly wish-listy.

Apparently it was posted as a leak on 4chan. Make of that what you will.

Based on primaris power alone, I'm calling BS. I guess we'll see in a few weeks. But I am taking that leak with heart-attack levels of salt.

 Freytag93 wrote:
Based on primaris power alone, I'm calling BS. I guess we'll see in a few weeks. But I am taking that leak with heart-attack levels of salt.

It doesn't seem too believable does it? That primarise alone would be Grimoire but for everything and without a downside!
If this leak is true, by that primaris alone, I can tell you exactly what the new cheese powerlist will be.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Freytag93 wrote:
Based on primaris power alone, I'm calling BS. I guess we'll see in a few weeks. But I am taking that leak with heart-attack levels of salt.

It doesn't seem too believable does it? That primarise alone would be Grimoire but for everything and without a downside!
If this leak is true, by that primaris alone, I can tell you exactly what the new cheese powerlist will be.

It would be fun to see the Tz disp be the top end of the 40k psychic phase for a little while. After spending 4 years as the worst.

But, muh Doombolt!

Since everyone is being down with guesses, ill make a few predictions on the big red man.

BS-7
WS-8
S-8
T-7
W-9
I-9
A-5
LD-10
SV-2+/3++

Type: FGMC

650 points

Will have access to all Tz powers, including one which will be S-D


I'd love to sy 9's all over his stats for 999 points, but thats taken already and i doubt they will copy it.

Thats just my guess anyway, based purely on thoughts.



I'll call severe BS though if he isnt a GMC due to his size.

If MoT keeps the 'to a maximum of a 3++' and the Primaris only effects the caster, not his unit, it wouldn't actually be broken at all.

Depending on the WC cost, #1 is just the Divination Primaris.
#2 really isn't that big of a deal, it's 1 dice roll per cast for 1 turn. Thet really isn't many re-rolls.
#3 you still need to cast Force to get instant death, so it's only useful if you have a HQ in the squad (unless GW allows the Aspiring Sorcerers to be ML2). If it's at least WC2 it won't be that broken.
#4 randomness everywhere. Could be really strong one turn or really weak the next. Honestly looks to be a pretty naff power imo.
#5 on second read this power doesn't sound as bad as I thought it would be, as it can backfire and cause the cast to perils multiple times if you roll low. It also sounds like you choose the WC cost of the power. So if you make it WC3 you get +3 to your roll. Still powerful, but it can backfire.
#6 a short ranged D beam. again looks like it has a variable cost. That initial -2 means it'll fail to do damage 1/2 the time and it can't get that all-powerful 6 result. Honestly not as broken as it initially seemed to be because of that short range and it being AP-. It'll destroy vehicles, but that's about it. MCs still get an armour save against it.

For number 3, depending on how it is worded that could be pretty nasty. If it gives a unit's weapons force and activates it you could be looking at a 10 man unit of TS with either ID flamers or ap3 ID bolters which will decimate any multiwound models. (Besides your extremely high toughness models like WK)

That primaris power seems tailor-made to try and counter scatterbikes. Hmm.

Well if we're discussing those whishlist powers, here's my take.


Primaris: +2 to invulns, passed saves reflect s3 ap3 blind hits back
Considering this is from a tzeentch supplement, it is to be expected that virtually all units should have a at least a 4++. Thus limiting it to 3++ makes little sense, then again, MoT has it too , so maybe. This is basically a better, free grimoire that even blinds stuff. so even with a 3++ limitation this is just too good.

1: reroll all to hit rolls for one unit for one turn
This is straight up prescience. That to me is another sign that this is fake.

2: pick the result of one dice in your turn
This isn't just a re-roll. This is crazy strong. With that you need a single D-hit to delete any vehicle in the game short of actual titans.
It guarantees at least a 7 inch charge distance. It guarantees you get supercharged when "suffering" perils of the warp(provided you pass a ld 10 test).
It removes all kind of randomness from csm/daemon charts, which is pretty much the opposite of what GW as been doing.

3: a unit's weapons gain Force
Even if their not activated, it only takes one psyker to activate all of the units weapons. And force works on ranged weapons too. Instant death rending assault cannons anybody?
Talk about deathstars. I don't see them doing this but I suppose this is in the realm of possibility.

4: 3d6" S: d6 AP: d6 Assault d6 Witchfire
This feels like somebody thought tzeentch and cranked random up to 11. Rubbish power, but we've seen similar stuff.

5: you an opponent roll off and add the number of WC you want to spend, loser takes the difference in totals in Perils rolls
Prescience and grimoire wasn't enough? They get a pseudo Psychic shriek as well? I suppose this depends on how many WC you get to spend on this.
The power on it's own is decent and possible, but with the other powers it makes this leak seem more fake than anything.

6 - 12" S: D AP- line, starts at -2 on the D table but you can spend extra warp charges to offset this
So 3 WC for a 12 inch D-line? I could see something like this. It's not as strong as invisibility or soulswitch and friends. Although now that Ahriman as a disc it could get ugly.

Magnus gets the Rubric too, 12" Nova that works like Mind War and transforms things it kills into new 1kSons/Spawn
lol, sure. Although some form of rapid mutation to create spawn would be fluffy. But a 12 inch nova that turns everything it kills into spawn? no way.

 Freytag93 wrote:

Mr ghoti wrote:
Here's some apparently leaked list of the new tzeentch discipline:

Successfully harnessing your warp charges forces opponents to re-roll successful deny the witch.

Primaris: +2 to invulns, passed saves reflect s3 ap3 blind hits back
1: reroll all to hit rolls for one unit for one turn
2: pick the result of one dice in your turn
3: a unit's weapons gain Force
4: 3d6" S: d6 AP: d6 Assault d6 Witchfire
5: you an opponent roll off and add the number of WC you want to spend, loser takes the difference in totals in Perils rolls
6 - 12" S: D AP- line, starts at -2 on the D table but you can spend extra warp charges to offset this

Magnus gets the Rubric too, 12" Nova that works like Mind War and transforms things it kills into new 1kSons/Spawn

Where is this leak? Because this sounds incredibly wish-listy.

Its on Bell of the Lost Souls no source is given though

You can tell it is fake because Doombolt isn't on it

 Grimgold wrote:
I think that's the plan, mix up 40k by changing some of the details, because in the end the wolves being fleet based isn't a big deal, but chaos getting a tic mark in the W column is. Chaos needs victories to be perceived as a threat, and they have precious few of those. Taking a fight to the Wolves, beating one of the strongest chapters on their home turf, and burning the world to the ground is exactly the kind of thing to give Chaos some street cred.

While it would be narratively awesome if that were to happen, I don't expect the Wolves to actually suffer any real loss. They're almost as poster-boy as the UM, except they have the '90's Image Comics "edgy cool" thing going for them as well.

he's a LoW for CSM.

Knows 15 POWERS!!, one of them is the Gaze of Magnus, powerful Laser Eyebeam.

As a 4++, Deamon of Tz

 Slayer le boucher wrote:


he's a LoW for CSM.

Knows 15 POWERS!!, one of them is the Gaze of Magnus, powerful Laser Eyebeam.

As a 4++, Deamon of Tz

Do you have any more information, and a source?

GW itself from the community site.

Link?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/23/wrath-of-magnus-the-big-guy-himself/

Thanks Roknar!

You're welcome lol

The GW community site notes that the 4++ "can be bolstered further when included as part of a dedicated Thousand Sons Detachment..." And as a Daemon of Tzeentch, rerolls of 1.

Whoah!

I can see a many CSM lists making room for this.

Why does a Daemon Prince get WS 9 but a Daemon Primarch gets WS 7?

 TheLumberJack wrote:
Why does a Daemon Prince get WS 9 butMaybe a Daemon Primarch gets WS 7?

Did Magnus even use weapons, hell during the heresy didn't he just do spells

Because Magnus isn't a melee fighter.

 EnTyme wrote:
Because Magnus isn't a melee fighter.

But he can is the thing. He should at least be on par with a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch in melee

Also, I saw that he's the size of an Imperial knight but only a flying monstrous creature?!

So if locked in combat with a Wraithknight or Stormsurge, he can be stomped out?

Lol...really?

 Bach wrote:
Also, I saw that he's the size of an Imperial knight but only a flying monstrous creature?!

So if locked in combat with a Wraithknight or Stormsurge, he can be stomped out?

Lol...really?

He can also be poison wounded easier

 Bach wrote:
Also, I saw that he's the size of an Imperial knight ....

I heard he stands "eye to eye" with a Knight. That's not as big as everyone seems to make him out to be.
For one thing, Knights are much shorter that Wraithknights and there "eye level" is even lower considering their posture.
For another thing, GW has a ton of new base sizes and Magnus is clearly on a round one, not oval.
It's probably the 80mm, which is smaller than the standard Flyer oval base (the one the new Thirster is on)
So Magnus is probably no taller than the Thirster, not counting the wings of either. Magnus is bigger, sure, but he is flat on the ground, while the Thirster is "leaping"

 Bach wrote:

So if locked in combat with a Wraithknight or Stormsurge, he can be stomped out?

Lol...really?

Remember when the WraithKnight was only an MC and the Knight came out. The IK could stomp the WK which was ridiculous to picture

-

I saw him at warhammer world today, he is about as tall as a knight, maybe a bit shorter.

Also, if its worth noting, Thousand Sons Units can take multiple flamers and a heavy weapon (as long as this isn't another Blackshield case) and sergeants can take hand flamers... if that is at all relevant lol

Yeah, I am pretty sure that the AP3 bolter will be gone in favor of Soulblaze bolters, maybe with Warpflame (lame).
But hopefully that means they come at a price reduction and can swap for flamers for free.

Well he wouldn't live long enough to be stomped. A single 6 on the D and he's gone, which happens way too often in melee.

Why shouldn't a knight be able to roll a 6 kicking magnus in the groin?

"Stormsurge pilot Sha'q, what was that shout just now!?!"

"I... think I stepped on a Kroothawk? It was big and red and had wings. Don't tell the Shaper, he'll be pissed."

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!!HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!!HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!!HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!!HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!!HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!!HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!!HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!!vvvv
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!!HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!!HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!!

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
"Stormsurge pilot Sha'q, what was that shout just now!?!"

"I... think I stepped on a Kroothawk? It was big and red and had wings. Don't tell the Shaper, he'll be pissed."

Made me laugh out loud. Have an exalt, good sir!

The announcement of Wrath of Magnus has me seriously reconsidering my choice of army. I was building a SM/Skitarii force, but now I'm hesitant because the new 1K sons models are amazing.

I don't care how good the crunch is, I've wanted a true 1K Sons army since 3rd Ed, and now I have it!