With so many people pissed about eighth (I personally am exceeding excited) I've started to wonder how long we have left. It's great the game has lasted 30 years, but nothing lasts forever.
16th edition? 20th? Dead at 9th? How long do you think we have left?

No idea.

It won't die, but all the people who actually care about the game will have been replaced by people who just want to push models and roll dice and children who don't know the difference by the time 9th rolls around.

Getting chewed out as the Enemy of Fun for trying to remind people that a rulebook exists or pointing out that GW's marketing language is misleading is starting to become the norm already.

 MattKing wrote:
With so many people pissed about eighth (I personally am exceeding excited) I've started to wonder how long we have left. It's great the game has lasted 30 years, but nothing lasts forever.
16th edition? 20th? Dead at 9th? How long do you think we have left?

What forum are you reading..? On the whole, I'm seeing that most people are fairly happy with 8th edition. There are some dissenters, and some that don't like certain upcoming aspects, but for the most part, the forum seems pretty optimistic.

As to your question, the game will continue for as long as people remain playing. I highly doubt that GW will up and close shop out of the blue. If people are still purchasing models and books, then they will continue making said products so long as it remains profitable.

Honestly, once interactive VR blue movies become available I think all other entertainment systems are going to struggle!

I have to question what forums your reading that has a majority 8th hatred.

A vast majority of people are at least cautiously optimistic that 8th will be better than 7th. I would honestly expect there to be some growth in the player base.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I have to question what forums your reading that has a majority 8th hatred.

Some people only read the threads/comments that echo their sentiments, and base their view on that.

 Purifier wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I have to question what forums your reading that has a majority 8th hatred.

Some people only read the threads/comments that echo their sentiments, and base their view on that.

Doesn't that go both ways?

 Talamare wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I have to question what forums your reading that has a majority 8th hatred.

Some people only read the threads/comments that echo their sentiments, and base their view on that.

Doesn't that go both ways?

What, that other people only read threads and comments that are in stark contrast to their own opinions and base their view on that? I guess?

People thought the ship was sinking when they announced Unbound too.

by comparison, the reaction to gun nerfings and nu marines is a drop in the bucket.

You can't judge a single thing by these forums. It is a tiny, tiny subset of all the players. And there are some people on here who are exceedingly bitter (I'm sure with good cause).

I've only seen a few people here pissed off about 8th. Outside of these forums, i've only seen excitement.

The people with the strongest opinions tend to be the most vocal. There's no reason WH40K can't go on basically forever in one fashion or another.

The only thing that'll kill it entirely is if another company buys up GW and shuts them down because they're competition.

 Marmatag wrote:
I've only seen a few people here pissed off about 8th. Outside of these forums, i've only seen excitement.

And let's be honest, many of the doomsayers are nearly histrionic.

"OMG I can't roll on three different tables in two different books to see if my tank is destroyed by shrubbery, this game is so dumbed down and unrealistic! SIIIIIIIGGMMMARRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!"

I was one who at first glance was hesitant over the initial changes coming in 8th. These I will admit were based on AOS and the loss of fluff. That being said and further research have found most people are relatively opotomistic about 8th, especially with the whole 7th debacle. You will always have those who hate change, and scream foul. I don't see GW going anywhere anytime soon as their fan base is IMO growing, and with the versatality of 8th I believe it will appeal to more and more players.

 Kroem wrote:
Honestly, once interactive VR blue movies become available I think all other entertainment systems are going to struggle!

Exactly. That's why ever since chess was released in a digital form you never see people playing chess on a chessboard.

I would say the painting part of the hobby drives more sales than the gaming part.

Right now, at this very moment, at this time, at this hour, at's coming, right now, blacking out your screen, bye.

Been around 30 years, why not 30 more?
With advances in moulds/3-d designs, bigger production runs, paints/airbrushes etc theres no limit model wise.
Just depends on how GW decides to keep peoples interests with new fluff/rules and editions.

If they continue to listen/engage with the community as they have been doing theres no end really.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
It won't die, but all the people who actually care about the game will have been replaced by people who just want to push models and roll dice and children who don't know the difference by the time 9th rolls around.

Getting chewed out as the Enemy of Fun for trying to remind people that a rulebook exists or pointing out that GW's marketing language is misleading is starting to become the norm already.

This seems about right.

 MattKing wrote:
With so many people pissed about eighth (I personally am exceeding excited) I've started to wonder how long we have left. It's great the game has lasted 30 years, but nothing lasts forever.
16th edition? 20th? Dead at 9th? How long do you think we have left?

People have been pissed about the New Edition, whichever edition that was, for the last 10 years

4th to 5th, 2008, I recall moaning about how you could no longer consolidate into a new combat and have a squad of genestealers roll through a parking lot of IG, and vehicles becoming way too survivable

5th to 6th, there was moaning of the survivability of vehicles being nerfed into the ground, the randomness everywhere, forging the narrative and the move towards a definitive beer and pretzels ruleset, flyers, fortifications, tables upon tables while you played on tables (dawg).

6th to 7th was complaints on how no rule was really addressed, it was a rehash edition with no real changes, the OPness of Psykers, Lords of War.

7th to 8th will be no different.

 MattKing wrote:
With so many people pissed about eighth (I personally am exceeding excited) I've started to wonder how long we have left. It's great the game has lasted 30 years, but nothing lasts forever.
16th edition? 20th? Dead at 9th? How long do you think we have left?

Who's pissed about eighth?? Nobody I know.
It'll still be about in another 30 years as there will always be people who prefer this kind of hobby/craft based game. It'll just keep having to reinvent itself to stay fresh.
I could however see Games Workshop disappearing and there games systems and models becoming internet based only, but that's a different topic

It's hard for me to be objective about 6/7 th, but I like most of what I see in 8th. I knew it wouldn't be 100% agreement with my views,though.

 MattKing wrote:
With so many people pissed about eighth

Huh? 8E is beating 7E something like 5:1 - way better than when 6E replaced 5E or 3E replaced 2E.

The only complaints I've seen about 8th is specific things: Battle Cannons are still meh, elite MSU are going to dominate, morale is going to hurt hordes badly, etc. But those are just gripes, everbody I've met (dispite what they may think about the new systems, AoSifying) is looking forward to something and is optimistic, our group for one is going to greet 8th with open arms since we having been playing as much since 7th came around.

I'm looking forward to Night Lords and Daemon Lord shenanigans.
Our Ork player is gushing over the new Morkanaught.
The DA/Knight player loves the nu-marines.
The Guard player is looking forward to running ranks and ranks of Leman Russ'.
The Eldar players LOVE Khaine.
The oldest of our group is excited because he managed to get a LOT of rubrics, cheap, and is going to run them with his sorcerors.

The only player who isn't happy is the BA player (but he's never happy) although he also plays Necrons so I'll see what he thinks about the new barge.

Overall, we're (reservedly) excited!

Count me as another "what are you talking about, OP?" 8th Ed seems to have mostly positive reaction so far.

Edited by Moderator.

Rule Number One is Be Polite.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
It won't die, but all the people who actually care about the game will have been replaced by people who just want to push models and roll dice and children who don't know the difference by the time 9th rolls around.

Getting chewed out as the Enemy of Fun for trying to remind people that a rulebook exists or pointing out that GW's marketing language is misleading is starting to become the norm already.

People have been making basically the exact same complaint on the internet since at least 3rd ed.

 MattKing wrote:
With so many people pissed about eighth (I personally am exceeding excited) I've started to wonder how long we have left. It's great the game has lasted 30 years, but nothing lasts forever.
16th edition? 20th? Dead at 9th? How long do you think we have left?

One things for certain: far longer than the lowest point of 7E.

 MattKing wrote:
With so many people pissed about eighth (I personally am exceeding excited) I've started to wonder how long we have left. It's great the game has lasted 30 years, but nothing lasts forever.
16th edition? 20th? Dead at 9th? How long do you think we have left?

lol, pissed about 8th? Most of the people I interact with are eagerly awaiting 8th after the crapshow that 7th was.

 Luciferian wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
I've only seen a few people here pissed off about 8th. Outside of these forums, i've only seen excitement.

And let's be honest, many of the doomsayers are nearly histrionic.

"OMG I can't roll on three different tables in two different books to see if my tank is destroyed by shrubbery, this game is so dumbed down and unrealistic! SIIIIIIIGGMMMARRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!"

Haha yeah, or they just don't understand math like even in the tiniest bit. "MEH BS2 STR3 WEPUNS CAN KEEL A TANKX0R!!111"

Every time someone whines about grots killing the Russ tank, I just think of those "So you're saying there's a chance?" memes.

Martel732 wrote:
Every time someone whines about grots killing the Russ tank, I just think of those "So you're saying there's a chance?" memes.

Makes me think of Futurama. "Yes, that's true, Stem Cells rubbed on your face can fight the signs of aging, in the same way an infant could fight Muhammed Ali."

All it takes is a dozen or so lucky shots, and a couple hundred unlucky ones to get there...

Haha. These are likely the same people acting like boltguns are a real threat to MCs in the current edition. If they were, Riptide wouldn't be rofl stomping traditional marine lists.

The negativity mostly comes from my own group. Primarily Tau-dar JGMC and raven-scars deathstar players. :p

Martel732 wrote:
Haha. These are likely the same people acting like boltguns are a real threat to MCs in the current edition. If they were, Riptide wouldn't be rofl stomping traditional marine lists.

These people should also be dumping a lot of fire into invisible units, or shooting at flying monstrous creatures, or planning for a really solid round of overwatch fire.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Traditio.

What?

There are certain aspects of 8th that I don't like. But overall, I am optimistic that 8th will be much better than 7th. It might even be playable.

I don't like the fact that vintage marines are effectively being squatted.

But then, at the end of the day, I can just use my vintage marines as counts-as nu-marines if the day should come that they stop having rules for them.

I also am not optimistic about Eldar and Tau...but then, Eldar and Tau are already game-breakingly OP now.

So worst case scenario is the status quo, and I simply don't play against Eldar and Tau armies.

Of course, it makes total sense that he's the flagbearer for 7th. 7th is so random, even a total scrub with zero listbuilding, zero strategy and zero tactics will occasionally win out on lucky Maelstrom draws. That's perfect for Trad, and why he's against 8th.

Would everyone please join me in reporting this?

This is just over the top.

It's not only totally uncalled for, but it's untrue.

And I wasn't even in this thread.

 Nazrak wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
It won't die, but all the people who actually care about the game will have been replaced by people who just want to push models and roll dice and children who don't know the difference by the time 9th rolls around.

Getting chewed out as the Enemy of Fun for trying to remind people that a rulebook exists or pointing out that GW's marketing language is misleading is starting to become the norm already.

People have been making basically the exact same complaint on the internet since at least 3rd ed.

Thats because the internet has only been around since 3rd ......

Combining Dakka, a few facebook pages, and LA forums...and my actual gaming group (who long ago abandoned current 40K concerns), I've seen about 85% positive and 15% negative.

I think if anything 40K is going to grow or recover some lost ground.

I'm a 2nd ed. player through and through but I'd gladly play 8th over any version of 3rd-7th. So that's something.

As long as one person is passionate about 40k, its fluff and minis then it will not die a death. So as long as I breathe it will be fine : )

 MattKing wrote:
With so many people pissed about eighth (I personally am exceeding excited) I've started to wonder how long we have left. It's great the game has lasted 30 years, but nothing lasts forever.
16th edition? 20th? Dead at 9th? How long do you think we have left?

At this rate? At least another decade, probably 2 especially with gw pulling its head out or its arse.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
As long as one person is passionate about 40k, its fluff and minis then it will not die a death. So as long as I breathe it will be fine : )

This is it right here.

At this point... who am I kidding? I'm always going to like and play 40k. So, I can personally vouch for at least another 30-40 years of the game continuing!

 Elbows wrote:
Combining Dakka, a few facebook pages, and LA forums...and my actual gaming group (who long ago abandoned current 40K concerns), I've seen about 85% positive and 15% negative.

I think if anything 40K is going to grow or recover some lost ground.

I'm a 2nd ed. player through and through but I'd gladly play 8th over any version of 3rd-7th. So that's something.

I've been quietly noting to people that 8th is the edition to get into 40k. simplified rules will be great. there's no way I'd ever be able to teach my dad 7th edition. 8th edition? I might be able to

 AnomanderRake wrote:
It won't die, but all the people who actually care about the game will have been replaced by people who just want to push models and roll dice and children who don't know the difference by the time 9th rolls around.

Getting chewed out as the Enemy of Fun for trying to remind people that a rulebook exists or pointing out that GW's marketing language is misleading is starting to become the norm already.

Yeah THAT'S why people might be 'chewing you out' . Not things like that first, frankly ridiculous sentence. People who enjoy playing a good game that has tactics and decision making will FINALLY have something for them in 40k again after 1.5 editions out of 2. 7th was a baby game by the end of it, 2++ rerollable 1850 unit and faceroll until table has been cleared. Rinse and repeat.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
As long as one person is passionate about 40k, its fluff and minis then it will not die a death. So as long as I breathe it will be fine : )

Beneath 40k there is more than a game... Beneath 40k there is an idea, Mr Creedy... And ideas cannot die.

@mrhappyface

You Sir/Madam watch V for Vendetta too much.

Oh, and ideas are bulletproof - hang on I think I do too : )

This is the first time I have personally seen previous players (including myself) actually strongly consider returning to the game. I also don't know if I have ever seen this much positivity in an edition change online. Usually the negativity is more prominent but not here.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
You Sir/Madam watch V for Vendetta too much.

I don't understand this "too much"?

Yeah 40k will outlast games-workshop

 Deadshot wrote:


People have been pissed about the New Edition, whichever edition that was, for the last 10 years

The game was ruined when Rogue Trader segued into 2nd edition. And REALLY ruined when GW threw everything away to dumb down the amazingly detailed and complex wargame into something simple enough to appeal to kiddies because GW doesn't care about real gamers...

(do the Dakka archives go back that far? The salt that piles up around edition changes is always hilarious.)

I have not interacted with anyone pissed about 8th. I also have been avoiding these forums due to how much people like to just whine, so that could be why I've not seen any grumpiness. These forums do not reflect the majority, nor do the (very few) people who are grumpy on facebook about it.

The death of 40k happens at least 5 times a year

 Bookwrack wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:


People have been pissed about the New Edition, whichever edition that was, for the last 10 years

The game was ruined when Rogue Trader segued into 2nd edition. And REALLY ruined when GW threw everything away to dumb down the amazingly detailed and complex wargame into something simple enough to appeal to kiddies because GW doesn't care about real gamers...

(do the Dakka archives go back that far? The salt that piles up around edition changes is always hilarious.)

Rogue Trader is also a much different game to Warhammer 40,000. Rogue trader was way too complex to appeal to a wider audience and needed simplification to be marketable to a modern audience and not directly complete with other surpremely complex and intricate games like like DnD.

This forum is the place I see people be the most negative about 8th in general.
I have talked to people who dislike parts but virtually never the "whole" picture.

Earth127 wrote:
This forum is the place I see people be the most negative about 8th in general.

It's not really the forum. It's the same half dozen people each making 20 posts a day.

Roughly 38,000 years. Maybe longer, but it's uncertain at this point.

Of course we're all probably going to be too busy to play during the Age of Strife, and playing 40k will probably get you burned as a heretic in the Imperium.

 Rippy wrote:
The death of 40k happens at least 5 times a year

Or once a month in 7th Ed. according to a new poster.
Especially if they ventured into YMDC.

Not sure how long things will last long term.

8th is looking to rejuvenate the game, so many people just need decent rules to get back in.

IMHO I think 8th will bring a much needed new lease of life to 40K. From what I have seen so far I wholeheartedly look forward to it.

If it is also a living game which is constantly balanced and updated then 40K has a long time to look forward to - gotta shift those uberMarines.

40k will be fine, editions come and go.

Martel732 wrote:
Haha. These are likely the same people acting like boltguns are a real threat to MCs in the current edition. If they were, Riptide wouldn't be rofl stomping traditional marine lists.

Note that a riptide in the 7th edition is leaps and bounds tougher than the vehicles we've seen so far. Saves alone, most vehicles are sitting around 4+, compared to 2+ with a 5+ fnp on top of that. The riptide will save almost 5 times as many bolter wounds as the battle barge will, with both getting wounded on a 6+ by bolters in their respective edition.

Lol yeah 40k is dead. People are fleeing in droves (all 6 of them) over 8th edition. Everyone might as well just give up on it the Internet has spoken. Anyway back on track me and everyone I know can't wait for 8th and like others have said 8th is looking like it's going to reinvigorate the franchise and bring in new blood.

In my area the 40k players are optimistic after 7th (my opinion is that 40k was screwed primarily because of the codexs and formations not necessarily the core rules)
The 30k players kept to 6th edition from the start.


Among the dakka 30k community it's looking like a quarter of Horus Heresy players are sticking with 7th
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/725647.page

 SirDonlad wrote:
In my area the 40k players are optimistic after 7th (my opinion is that 40k was screwed primarily because of the codexs and formations not necessarily the core rules)
The 30k players kept to 6th edition from the start.


Among the dakka 30k community it's looking like a quarter of Horus Heresy players are sticking with 7th
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/725647.page

I dont blame them though, all their stuff is basically designed for 7th. 40k is not really big where I live anyway so no big deal there. We are trying to get a SW:A thing going at the FLGS, but other than the local GW, there is not much love for anything GW around here.

I don't know about anybody else in this thread, but 8th got me to actually want to play again after selling all my stuff off. Almost done buying my new army of 100+ Guard Infantry, 20 Rough Riders and vehicles.

 deviantduck wrote:
I would say the painting part of the hobby drives more sales than the gaming part.

I really believe GW has always prided themselves on just that. But you know what they say about pride.

the missed opportunity is for pre packaged pre painted miniatures. Yes I know the quality would be not up to a hobby standard, but far better than some armies I have seen.

Besides, most potential players buy a horde of models and then paint a unit or two then sell them on ebay, or worse just wont get into the hobby. Afterall most kids don't want to spend too much time on anything other than social media!

Imagine that there are some painted Boyz or tac marines and maybe 1 killerkan or rhino painted (1 base unit + 1 base vehicle) You tell the new kid he can pick up 3 or 4 of those units, then buy himself a snazzy dreadnought kit and a super hero commander and you have a starter army. Crazy as it is a little push could bring many many gamers/future hobbyist into the fold. Whats the hurt in tryin it out once.

 admironheart wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
I would say the painting part of the hobby drives more sales than the gaming part.

I really believe GW has always prided themselves on just that. But you know what they say about pride.

the missed opportunity is for pre packaged pre painted miniatures. Yes I know the quality would be not up to a hobby standard, but far better than some armies I have seen.

Besides, most potential players buy a horde of models and then paint a unit or two then sell them on ebay, or worse just wont get into the hobby. Afterall most kids don't want to spend too much time on anything other than social media!

Imagine that there are some painted Boyz or tac marines and maybe 1 killerkan or rhino painted (1 base unit + 1 base vehicle) You tell the new kid he can pick up 3 or 4 of those units, then buy himself a snazzy dreadnought kit and a super hero commander and you have a starter army. Crazy as it is a little push could bring many many gamers/future hobbyist into the fold. Whats the hurt in tryin it out once.

Maybe on the other hand I appreciate the hobby aspect of 40k as much if not more then the gameplay.

 admironheart wrote:


I really believe GW has always prided themselves on just that. But you know what they say about pride.

the missed opportunity is for pre packaged pre painted miniatures. Yes I know the quality would be not up to a hobby standard, but far better than some armies I have seen.

Besides, most potential players buy a horde of models and then paint a unit or two then sell them on ebay, or worse just wont get into the hobby. Afterall most kids don't want to spend too much time on anything other than social media!

Imagine that there are some painted Boyz or tac marines and maybe 1 killerkan or rhino painted (1 base unit + 1 base vehicle) You tell the new kid he can pick up 3 or 4 of those units, then buy himself a snazzy dreadnought kit and a super hero commander and you have a starter army. Crazy as it is a little push could bring many many gamers/future hobbyist into the fold. Whats the hurt in tryin it out once.

What do you think this is, X-Wing?

I think there will be 3 major factors in how long 40k will continue:

1) the quality of the rules. They've been shockingly bad so far, this new edition is at least a chance to turn that around. Whether it will or not, however, remains to be seen. People have traditionally always been optimistic when a new ruleset comes in, getting all hyped and expecting things to be better. Maybe this time it will be, but gw's track record doesn't look so rosy at the moment.

2)the price of the minis. It was always an expensive game, sure, but the prices have been steadily rising to pants-on-head levels. The higher the prices, the less potential customers. There'll be a sweet spot for cost/customer, but are gw interested in finding it? Or will it just be continuing to raise prices with every new release?

3)the behaviour of gw as a company. Every company exists to make a profit, but how they do business can affect that. Attacking fans, screwing independant retailers, and generally being douches to the wider world (like spots the space marine) aren't good ways to improve your reputation. They keep insisting that they're nu-gw, well they're going to have to prove that.

I could only guess how long 40k will continue, but those factors above will play heavily in the outcome. As things were going? They were reporting less profit each year despite raising prices and cutting costs for quite a while. 10 years? As a random number pulled out of my hat, it'd be dependant not just on gw but the wider ttmg community and the popularity of other games. X-wing did really well, warmahordes was looking good until mk3. One good new game could potentially do it, or else a death by a thousand cuts as all these new kickstarter games are released.

The real question to me is: is this actually nu-gw? Are they actually responding to customer feedback? Or is this just the same thing we've seen all along? Which will require time to answer, and is needed to get a decent answer to the OP.

 deviantduck wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
Honestly, once interactive VR blue movies become available I think all other entertainment systems are going to struggle!

Exactly. That's why ever since chess was released in a digital form you never see people playing chess on a chessboard.

I would say the painting part of the hobby drives more sales than the gaming part.

That's also because Chess is incredibly boring to play in person with friends, compared to having a bunch of pretty plastic people on a table, rolling dice, and laughing and shouting and making explosion and tank noises. I can get the same experience of playing chess playing on my computer as I can playing in person.

Tabletop Miniatures Wargaming is a social activity. No technology can take the place of meeting in person, with friends.

Consider james bond franchise, that series could have lasted 4 movies as the first four films are the only valuable episodes of that franchise but it actually had 20+ sequels, lasting almost 60 years since dr no was released. Like james bond movies GW games can last decades even after their most popular releases as they will always have a solid base of supporters. Maybe bigger or smaller than now but solid enough to avoid ending their business. Maybe at some point western societies would become too different to appreciate hobby modeling in general but I think it will take decades.

 deviantduck wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
Honestly, once interactive VR blue movies become available I think all other entertainment systems are going to struggle!

Exactly. That's why ever since chess was released in a digital form you never see people playing chess on a chessboard.

I would say the painting part of the hobby drives more sales than the gaming part.

I gotta say absolutely not, especially when adjusted for how many people it keeps OUT. People always talk about how much it costs to get into 40k but they never really get where the biggest costs are. The models are actually only really a fraction of the cost of entry.

Take a basic box of fire warriors. A squad of ten is what? 40$ maybe, i don't play tau so don't know for sure but lets go with 40. So 10 fire warriors+the other random tau stuff they pack into the box takes maybe an hour to 1.5 for a new player to assemble. Then let's say that to get those models up to a solid tabletop+standard takes another 45ish minutes per model. That's up to 9-10 hours of work for that box.

To not exceed the cost of the models themselves the next most valuable thing you could do would have to return less than 7$ per hour.

 Kroem wrote:
Honestly, once interactive VR blue movies become available I think all other entertainment systems are going to struggle!

Electronic entertainment has always been predicted to kill off more traditional hobbies but rarely does. For what its worth, commercial computer games actually predate the founding of Games Workshop so I'm sure they won't be losing sleep just yet.

Earth127 wrote:
This forum is the place I see people be the most negative about 8th in general.
I have talked to people who dislike parts but virtually never the "whole" picture.

I've seen a TON of excessive positivity everywhere, to the extent of people who criticize anything wrong with 8th being publicly crucified.

I'm looking forward to it! The majority of players I've spoken to and interacted with are very positive about 8th edition.

I've also been playing since RT days, and every edition brings change to the game, and a lot of people dislike or even fear change. You have to adapt and roll with it, or walk away. Anything else you do will be a waste of your time and resources.

I'm calling it now...40k as we have known it since RT - 7th is OVER, this is our "End Times" just in a different way...make no mistake 8th and after is 40k in name and fluff only, welcome to AOS 40k.

Revenant78 wrote:
I'm calling it now...40k as we have known it since RT - 7th is OVER, this is our "End Times" just in a different way...make no mistake 8th and after is 40k in name and fluff only, welcome to AOS 40k.

Funny that you mention every edition since Rogue Trader, because 8th is closer to 2nd than anything else, really. It's just very different from 3rd-7th.

Also, what makes it not 40k aside from name and fluff, losing vehicle facings?

Revenant78 wrote:
I'm calling it now...40k as we have known it since RT - 7th is OVER, this is our "End Times" just in a different way...make no mistake 8th and after is 40k in name and fluff only, welcome to AOS 40k.

People have been saying that since AoS came out. What makes your pronouncement special?

 Traditio wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Traditio.

What?

There are certain aspects of 8th that I don't like. But overall, I am optimistic that 8th will be much better than 7th. It might even be playable.

I don't like the fact that vintage marines are effectively being squatted.

But then, at the end of the day, I can just use my vintage marines as counts-as nu-marines if the day should come that they stop having rules for them.

I also am not optimistic about Eldar and Tau...but then, Eldar and Tau are already game-breakingly OP now.

So worst case scenario is the status quo, and I simply don't play against Eldar and Tau armies.

Of course, it makes total sense that he's the flagbearer for 7th. 7th is so random, even a total scrub with zero listbuilding, zero strategy and zero tactics will occasionally win out on lucky Maelstrom draws. That's perfect for Trad, and why he's against 8th.

Would everyone please join me in reporting this?

This is just over the top.

It's not only totally uncalled for, but it's untrue.

And I wasn't even in this thread.

I just ignore him as a troll.

 Luciferian wrote:
A vast majority of people are at least cautiously optimistic that 8th will be better than 7th. I would honestly expect there to be some growth in the player base.

I totally agree- I feel like the player base went up consistently during the end of 7th edition just because of the amount of content GW was putting out. If 8th comes out an is actaully a big improvement over 7th - I think we are going to see an EXPLOSION of players.

Revenant78 wrote:
I'm calling it now...40k as we have known it since RT - 7th is OVER, this is our "End Times" just in a different way...make no mistake 8th and after is 40k in name and fluff only, welcome to AOS 40k.

Maybe you're right. 40k is definitely changing, so it isn't wrong to say it may become something different.

Was the answer to continue the way things had been going, though? I'd say definitely not.

Change isn't always a bad thing. And I think you'll find if you search your heart, and keep an open mind, the 40k that YOU like is still there, and whatever doesn't work for you is fixable. I've played 40k the same way for years, and although the rules or the fluff or whatever doesn't always line up with my expectations, I can still enjoy the game and the setting for my own reasons. Even if Orks have been comical football hooligans for ages, when my Orks hit the table they're brutal, grimdark killers, lore be damned!

 Jambles wrote:

Revenant78 wrote:
I'm calling it now...40k as we have known it since RT - 7th is OVER, this is our "End Times" just in a different way...make no mistake 8th and after is 40k in name and fluff only, welcome to AOS 40k.

Maybe you're right. 40k is definitely changing, so it isn't wrong to say it may become something different.

Was the answer to continue the way things had been going, though? I'd say definitely not.

Change isn't always a bad thing. And I think you'll find if you search your heart, and keep an open mind, the 40k that YOU like is still there, and whatever doesn't work for you is fixable. I've played 40k the same way for years, and although the rules or the fluff or whatever doesn't always line up with my expectations, I can still enjoy the game and the setting for my own reasons. Even if Orks have been comical football hooligans for ages, when my Orks hit the table they're brutal, grimdark killers, lore be damned!

I don't need to search my heart or open my mind, the art up till 7th was fairly good, if the art is a reflection of the craptastic special olympics style we have seen in the trailers GW will not be getting my money for any printed material, my plan is simply to buy the specific chaos god troops and use them both for 4th ( using 3.5 dex ) and 7th ed, otherwise my money will be going to finishing off my remaining armies, I currently play pure harlequins, genestealer cults ( heavily based off IG units and hybrids ) kdk ( all I will update is the marines and zerkers which im 99% sure will come ), DA lions blade, deathskull orks ( really the only army I'm looking forward to playing for 8th ) and deathwatch mixed with ordo xenos warband.

I've invested lots of money into 7th, I'm very pleased with what it is and I don't waste time with meta kiddies or waac types neither does my group we play for fun and enjoy 7th and other editions for what is, we still play 8th fb too, for me 7th is the last edition of real 40k.

The advancement is fine if it was not so over the top, but I dislike what it's turning into and I still have not bought any AOS to date other than khorne to stand in as marked marauders.

Change is fine when it's quality, often change is total gak and I call it for what it is, some people like gak some people don't.

Revenant78 wrote:
I'm calling it now...40k as we have known it since RT - 7th is OVER, this is our "End Times" just in a different way...make no mistake 8th and after is 40k in name and fluff only, welcome to AOS 40k.

Right, because 7th is so very similar to RT. 8th will be the first edition to change the game in any way.

Unless you mean 8th will be a much needed "ground up" rebuild of a game the is struggling with baggage from previous editions and bloat piled on top of a not so great core game? Which them serves to reinvigorate a stagnant and shrinking player base?
That's what AoS did, so yea, things are looking up for 40k.

That's a whole other topic, I don't think 8th is as extreme as the old world being killed off. A couple of things though...even since RT...sci fi/guns clearly won over FB and have ever since. That one has little to do with GW itself but what the player base wanted to buy over the other more.. GW tried many times to keep fantasy alive but due to dif reasons 40k still won. AOS is not a step up or anything vs WHFB as it is a totally different game and totally new world with only some minor similarities in names and some aspects of chaos.

8th edition fb was for the most part about very large troop units, 40k for a few editions has also been more about "big troop counts" if you look at points costs now and then. We have already had our end times though, it's not as stomach turning but for some of us there is not a whole lot we are happy about.

FB was generally more adult supported and tactical vs 40k, I would even claim it would have appealed to a more historical fantasy type gamer which has never been the majority since 40k came out. GW even said that "we would do RT and it would be cool but in the end everyone would come back to fantasy" well jes that did not happen did it but your still sculpting awesome minis.

40k on the other hand is more marketable to kids and many in general as plot armour marines and lots of guns is something many can easily latch onto vs a gritty dark fantasy world with heavy european influence and historical like block formations and tactics.

As a small twist, I'll aks "How much time does 7th edition have left?

My answer: A couple weeks. My local FLGS and GW store both received the "These current core 40K books are no longer available, and are eligible for credit on your account if returned by June 30th..."

It's gonna be a wild June!

 MattKing wrote:
With so many people pissed about eighth (I personally am exceeding excited) I've started to wonder how long we have left. It's great the game has lasted 30 years, but nothing lasts forever.
16th edition? 20th? Dead at 9th? How long do you think we have left?

Show me an update for Monopoly. People still play a game because they want to play the game. If GW got the edition right and it was near perfect balance, people will play 40k even if gw happened to go out of business.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
It won't die, but all the people who actually care about the game will have been replaced by people who just want to push models and roll dice and children who don't know the difference by the time 9th rolls around.

Getting chewed out as the Enemy of Fun for trying to remind people that a rulebook exists or pointing out that GW's marketing language is misleading is starting to become the norm already.

This hit the nail right on the head.

The game is not going to die, but they are just going to drive out their original customers, which is kinda sad. I mean im still gonna play 8th, rules i dont have an issue with really, but the story for 8th thus far is really hamfisted into the setting, and only exists to move more models, which is a really bad stratagy for the long term fans. I have just kinda accepted im not the target audience anymore for the game. So i have kinda turned my attention to just bigger large scale projects.

What's amusing to me is that 8th and things like SWA are actually doing the opposite for the folks in the 35+ age bracket.

The gaming group I roll with is about 14-15 people strong, and the youngest is around 35-36 years old, the oldest around 65. All of us used to play GW products back in the late 80's through the late 90's. We all fell out after 3rd or shortly into 4th...as the game was no longer something we were interested in.

You could argue these folks were actually the "original" customers. While we probably won't be playing 40K en masse in 8th, we've been playing a bunch of 2nd ed. lately and people have been enjoying SWA (not for me, but most). There's been more interest/talk about GW products than there has been in the past 15 years.

Many other forums are awash with people saying "Well, I haven't bought a GW product in 10-15 years...but I might pick X up...". So GW is doing something right if they're capturing that attention, even on smaller skirmish games.

If you skim off the edges of the internet, mainly the 15% of people who will stomp their feet and quit 40K...and the 15% of their old demographic who will come back because they disliked a current or previous version of 40K...I think the middle 70% will just carry on.

Thinking otherwise really means you're part of one of those 15% groups. Me? I'm ambivalent. I've played a few games of 7th simply because I met some guys recently who like to game 40K...and find 7th absolutely atrocious. I'll continue gaming 2nd, but I'd take a peak at 8th. I like some of the rules I've seen, dislike some of the others.

Again, i think so many people always get mixed up what people are upset about. I have come across like....2 people that are upset about the rules of 8th, and even then its only spicific things, like removing templates, or removing initiative, ect ect, things that can super easy be house ruled.

What i see a lot of people upset about, my self included, is the hamfisted lore of 8th, and the hand waving of established lore and rules with in the universe simply because "Muh Rowboat is back."

Over GW doing something right...this is a bit deeper and a few things to mention over that.

1 GW is finally doing "deals" again, or I should say discounts...are these discounts the same as when BA was running it...no, but they are "decent" deals. These deals give off the illusion that suddenly GW has accepted the errors of their ways, in reality what they have done is semi rolled back certain prices to some years ago, ie we are paying prices similar to 2nd-4th ed but ONLY in specific "discount" boxes. Ie the troop/transport boxes, the xmas army deals, the start collecting...the rest are still the same old GW pricing.

This is appealing to newer players and some vets wanting to start new armies or build up/fill out some units at a better price. Now if they started doing things like "buy 40k starter set and a codex and get a troop box free" would be closer to pre Tom Kirby.

2 The other doing something right is a bit deeper than just pricing and deals, it also has to be pointed out this was during ALL of 7th, not 8th..."new gw" is actually really the last 2 years. During 7th GW has brought back a number of armies who have not technically been seen ( and in some cases were more character selections or background story fluff that have turned into armies of their own ) since rogue trader. This mainly being Genestealer cults, Harlequins, Adeptus mechanicus and so on...yes they may have had questionable get you by rules for editions after this but they are mainly RT armies and have not been done in that way since. I realize Harlequins sorta came as a choice before but they were much smaller in selection vs what they had in RT which is similar to now. With AM they were mostly along the lines of techmarines or techpriests and that was it vs what came out for 7th. Knights may have come out in 6th but they too are mainly from RT/original Epic/AT days.

So what we essentially have here with all this is nostalgia for those of us who remember all that and who have been enticed by it, and the hype of that nostalgia with newcomers who want it now also or who simply think it's cool.

3 Side games/board games....which again is mostly from the RT era. The majority of GW personal IP side games and board games were during RT. Obviously long before this GW sold board games ( how they actually started ) and rpg's but that's not relevant and has not been since they became an IP miniature company which was BA not TK. It was during RT days that games like space hulk, epic ( with it's various names ), blood bowl 2nd ed, Advanced HQ and so on came out, when GW killed specialist games ( which was just re releases/new editions of the RT days and some new ones ) they probably saw that other game makers were latching onto some of those types of games, and with enough interest decided within the last 2 years or so to bring back SG type titles...this sorta happened anyway with Space Hulk 3rd/4th and Dreadfleet just they were sorta marketed as limited edition special games but technically still just SG titles.

Hell to ride that nostalgia train even more they even re released RT in hardback at WW and have reprinted some of the ROC content and others in a few recent collection type books, even the made to order stuff.

So new GW is actually from 7th era and has nothing to do with 8th, it has everything to do with internal GW choices, and it remains to b seen what will happen with AOS40k.

I'm skeptical on 8ths reception, a lot has been taken out, but a lot has been made simple.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

This hit the nail right on the head.

The game is not going to die, but they are just going to drive out their original customers, which is kinda sad. I mean im still gonna play 8th, rules i dont have an issue with really, but the story for 8th thus far is really hamfisted into the setting, and only exists to move more models, which is a really bad stratagy for the long term fans. I have just kinda accepted im not the target audience anymore for the game. So i have kinda turned my attention to just bigger large scale projects.

I'm one of those people Elbows was talking about - someone who has been playing off and on since 2nd but pretty much left some time ago and is just coming back due to recent developments. I agree that their narrative work is hamfisted, cliched and thoughtless, but then again it has been for quite some time. All of the people who basically plagiarized the setting from a variety of their own favorite fictional works are long gone. Besides, nothing can really get worse than Our Spiritual Liege, Matt Ward, writing about Sisters of Battle being used as armor paint or how the Ultramarines are the most bestest and awesomest ever.

 Luciferian wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

This hit the nail right on the head.

The game is not going to die, but they are just going to drive out their original customers, which is kinda sad. I mean im still gonna play 8th, rules i dont have an issue with really, but the story for 8th thus far is really hamfisted into the setting, and only exists to move more models, which is a really bad stratagy for the long term fans. I have just kinda accepted im not the target audience anymore for the game. So i have kinda turned my attention to just bigger large scale projects.

I'm one of those people Elbows was talking about - someone who has been playing off and on since 2nd but pretty much left some time ago and is just coming back due to recent developments. I agree that their narrative work is hamfisted, cliched and thoughtless, but then again it has been for quite some time. All of the people who basically plagiarized the setting from a variety of their own favorite fictional works are long gone. Besides, nothing can really get worse than Our Spiritual Liege, Matt Ward, writing about Sisters of Battle being used as armor paint or how the Ultramarines are the most bestest and awesomest ever.

Well he is back working for GW so I have a very sneaking suspicion that he is responsible for numarines and girly man hand waving most of Cael's works as being totally fine and not against the rules.

But like I said, lore is not looking good, rules are, I'm just focusing on things that will never change. Things like terrain and Titans, because no matter how super duper your marines become still can take a laser blaster to the face or a good old crunch.

 Luciferian wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

This hit the nail right on the head.

The game is not going to die, but they are just going to drive out their original customers, which is kinda sad. I mean im still gonna play 8th, rules i dont have an issue with really, but the story for 8th thus far is really hamfisted into the setting, and only exists to move more models, which is a really bad stratagy for the long term fans. I have just kinda accepted im not the target audience anymore for the game. So i have kinda turned my attention to just bigger large scale projects.

I'm one of those people Elbows was talking about - someone who has been playing off and on since 2nd but pretty much left some time ago and is just coming back due to recent developments. I agree that their narrative work is hamfisted, cliched and thoughtless, but then again it has been for quite some time. All of the people who basically plagiarized the setting from a variety of their own favorite fictional works are long gone. Besides, nothing can really get worse than Our Spiritual Liege, Matt Ward, writing about Sisters of Battle being used as armor paint or how the Ultramarines are the most bestest and awesomest ever.

I dunno about other people but I always found "Ultramarines are the best" less offensive than I should have, simply because I imagine the 5th ed Codex being written by the Ultramarines themselves. They are the most political of the Chapters after all, and considered the paragons of Marine orthodoxy despite maintaining close ties with their successors like they're a de facto Legion, allying with Xenos on multiple occasions for assorted purposes (teaming up with Iyanden to stop the Tyranids), maintaining a separate non-Marine army (the Ultramar Defense Force) which exports entire regiments to the Guard, or the fact their Chapter Master is dual-wielding Power Fists that were looted from a Chaos Champion.

There's plenty of potential for cracks to emerge in their shining armor, so anything about them being the best is really overzealous editing to convince others (or themselves) otherwise.
On another note, Slaaneshi Gulliman would be an interesting twist.

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

This hit the nail right on the head.

The game is not going to die, but they are just going to drive out their original customers, which is kinda sad. I mean im still gonna play 8th, rules i dont have an issue with really, but the story for 8th thus far is really hamfisted into the setting, and only exists to move more models, which is a really bad stratagy for the long term fans. I have just kinda accepted im not the target audience anymore for the game. So i have kinda turned my attention to just bigger large scale projects.

I'm one of those people Elbows was talking about - someone who has been playing off and on since 2nd but pretty much left some time ago and is just coming back due to recent developments. I agree that their narrative work is hamfisted, cliched and thoughtless, but then again it has been for quite some time. All of the people who basically plagiarized the setting from a variety of their own favorite fictional works are long gone. Besides, nothing can really get worse than Our Spiritual Liege, Matt Ward, writing about Sisters of Battle being used as armor paint or how the Ultramarines are the most bestest and awesomest ever.

I dunno about other people but I always found "Ultramarines are the best" less offensive than I should have, simply because I imagine the 5th ed Codex being written by the Ultramarines themselves. They are the most political of the Chapters after all, and considered the paragons of Marine orthodoxy despite maintaining close ties with their successors like they're a de facto Legion, allying with Xenos on multiple occasions for assorted purposes (teaming up with Iyanden to stop the Tyranids), maintaining a separate non-Marine army (the Ultramar Defense Force) which exports entire regiments to the Guard, or the fact their Chapter Master is dual-wielding Power Fists that were looted from a Chaos Champion.

There's plenty of potential for cracks to emerge in their shining armor, so anything about them being the best is really overzealous editing to convince others (or themselves) otherwise.
On another note, Slaaneshi Gulliman would be an interesting twist.

Just a tidbit, they didn't team up with Iyanden vs Kraken, Kraken happened to attack both at the same time. If either had fallen, the other tendril would have been able to go and devour the other force with ease. It was a conveniant alliance that neither knew existed.

 MattKing wrote:
With so many people pissed about eighth (I personally am exceeding excited) I've started to wonder how long we have left. It's great the game has lasted 30 years, but nothing lasts forever.
16th edition? 20th? Dead at 9th? How long do you think we have left?

About 4 weeks.

Burn all your stuff. Or send it to me. I'll burn it for you.

 Deadshot wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

This hit the nail right on the head.

The game is not going to die, but they are just going to drive out their original customers, which is kinda sad. I mean im still gonna play 8th, rules i dont have an issue with really, but the story for 8th thus far is really hamfisted into the setting, and only exists to move more models, which is a really bad stratagy for the long term fans. I have just kinda accepted im not the target audience anymore for the game. So i have kinda turned my attention to just bigger large scale projects.

I'm one of those people Elbows was talking about - someone who has been playing off and on since 2nd but pretty much left some time ago and is just coming back due to recent developments. I agree that their narrative work is hamfisted, cliched and thoughtless, but then again it has been for quite some time. All of the people who basically plagiarized the setting from a variety of their own favorite fictional works are long gone. Besides, nothing can really get worse than Our Spiritual Liege, Matt Ward, writing about Sisters of Battle being used as armor paint or how the Ultramarines are the most bestest and awesomest ever.

I dunno about other people but I always found "Ultramarines are the best" less offensive than I should have, simply because I imagine the 5th ed Codex being written by the Ultramarines themselves. They are the most political of the Chapters after all, and considered the paragons of Marine orthodoxy despite maintaining close ties with their successors like they're a de facto Legion, allying with Xenos on multiple occasions for assorted purposes (teaming up with Iyanden to stop the Tyranids), maintaining a separate non-Marine army (the Ultramar Defense Force) which exports entire regiments to the Guard, or the fact their Chapter Master is dual-wielding Power Fists that were looted from a Chaos Champion.

There's plenty of potential for cracks to emerge in their shining armor, so anything about them being the best is really overzealous editing to convince others (or themselves) otherwise.
On another note, Slaaneshi Gulliman would be an interesting twist.

Just a tidbit, they didn't team up with Iyanden vs Kraken, Kraken happened to attack both at the same time. If either had fallen, the other tendril would have been able to go and devour the other force with ease. It was a conveniant alliance that neither knew existed.

Or was it?

Cheekiness aside, most the Eldar/human teamups are holdovers from 2nd it appears. If that's the case, it's probably less of a stretch than the longer-term alliance between Biel-Tan and Tallarn, among other cases.

 Deadshot wrote:

 MattKing wrote:
With so many people pissed about eighth (I personally am exceeding excited) I've started to wonder how long we have left. It's great the game has lasted 30 years, but nothing lasts forever.
16th edition? 20th? Dead at 9th? How long do you think we have left?

People have been pissed about the New Edition, whichever edition that was, for the last 10 years

More than that. People complained when they introduced army lists to 1st edition in 1989. The howls of horror when 3rd edition came out and did away with the Move stat and armour save mods in favour of AP were huge, too.

I see it hopefully becoming more popular again. 7th edition really seems to be the low point. You have people like me who are definitely not fans of AoS yet are looking forward to 8th edition. There really is hardly anywhere to go, rules-wise, but up from where GW drove 40k these last years. At this point I'll take playable as an acceptable measure of success and be happy with it. If 40k was my only or primary game maybe I'd care more, but it's not and I don't.

 MattKing wrote:
With so many people pissed about eighth (I personally am exceeding excited) I've started to wonder how long we have left. It's great the game has lasted 30 years, but nothing lasts forever.
16th edition? 20th? Dead at 9th? How long do you think we have left?

I've really only seen majority positive feedback so far...

Gamers will always be pissed about some aspect of a new edition. Frankly if 8th remained in the 3rd-7th system of armor thresholds I probably would have just stopped playing all together.

How much time does 40k have?
As long as someone is willing to produce rules GW or fan-supported.
Potentially forever.
I have rarely seen a hobby item die-off completely as long as there are people who like it.