This is a thread to talk about about things Duardin related. Kharadron, Fyreslayer, Dispossed or Azgorh, take your pick!
Right now I'm in the early phases of starting a Kharadron force, and I can't decide on what Skyport to go with. Should I go with one of the ready made ports or make my own? Back in the day, I had a dwarf army in red and white livery ('the bad santas' ) so making a Barak Thryng force would be a nice call back to that. However, I feel like I can't pass up the opportunity to use the code system to it's full effect and make up my own.
Incidentally, does anyone know where I can find information on the dwarf language? I can't find my old fantasy dwarf book and if I am making up my own port I'll need to know the lingo. It'll be useful for naming the ships too.
One other thing; how are the Fyreslayers. I love the look and lore behind them, and in truth the only reason I didn't get any is because I was already collecting an army of vicious axe wielding killers in the form of the Bloodbound. But since they're an early release I would assume that they don't match up to the later ones. No artifacts of power or anything like that right?
Future War Cultist wrote: This is a thread to talk about about things Duardin related. Kharadron, Fyreslayer, Dispossed or Azgorh, take your pick!
Right now I'm in the early phases of starting a Kharadron force, and I can't decide on what Skyport to go with. Should I go with one of the ready made ports or make my own? Back in the day, I had a dwarf army in red and white livery ('the bad santas' ) so making a Barak Thryng force would be a nice call back to that. However, I feel like I can't pass up the opportunity to use the code system to it's full effect and make up my own.
As it stands Urbaz is the best Kharadron build due to their superior khemist buff stacking. However, there is a rumor that with GHB2 buffs with the same name will no longer stack in matched play, which would bring Urbaz down to the same level as the others.
Gamgee wrote: I hear the frontline gaming guys always talking about Barak-Mornhar a lot and how good they will be.
It depends on the enemy. They are certainly good thanks to the command trait, but since the buff is limited to one enemy unit at a time I'm not sure it's THAT powerful. The unit you pick will probably be really, really dead but Kharadron shooting is already more than enough to blow one unit off the board; you generally don't need or want it all focused at the same target. Its also a case of a really powerful command trait on a 5-wound hero...
Perhaps most importantly for someone doing that sort of a build, it would be stronger to just go with Order allegiance and bring a hurricanum.
I am still struggling to come up with a skyport theme as well, most of the pre made ones have one or two good abilities but then the others are not so good.
I'm thinking of going with a teal and white colour scheme similiar to Barak thryng, but swapping the red for teal and maybe a blues wash on the white armour.
As for the code I am going to try
- settle grudges
- always run 6" for skyvessels
- D3 mortal wounds
My starting force will be 2 frigates, 2 company, 1 admiral and a unit of thunderers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In regards to Fyreslayers, I bought a small force and used a few
old slayers as proxy's. Found that they are fairly durable in a fight with the battlesmith nearby, but once the numbers get low they get wiped out pretty quick. I would love more but just too expensive. If anything I feel they play like a horde army or a monster heavy army and not much in between due to lack of model range.
I've been running a custom skyport for my games. I appreciate the prebuilt ones, but I don't face anything that can fly ever, and a lot of what I fight are not monsters/heroes. Plus I don't run any of the battalions because I find Frigates are a terrible unit for their cost. I tend to take Settle The Grudges, Always Take What You Are Owed, and There's No Trading With Some People. For a command trait I've been simply taking Stickler for the Code to also have Surrender is Rarely Profitable.
The combination there allows me to finish off a key unit if I need to, keep a squad of company men alive after a devastating attack, reroll ALL THE MINIGUN 1's EVER, and bring two artifacts for my gunhaulers to have.
It's all been working out fairly well in my experience.
Using the regular code seems to be more beneficial than using one of the port cities. The exception would be if your strategy would require a set that would be beneficial to your strategy (A Barak-Nar army against a Tzeench army for example, or gaining advantage from Barak-Urbaz's Aether-khemists)
Also doesn't the rules for Stickler to the code have you roll and not choose? since it said generate a code I would think they meant you had to roll on the footnote table.
IMO "generate" would default to whatever the normal rules are for generating a footnote, which means pick or roll, your choice. But I can see a good argument for it being random too.
I don't think it says you have to randomly decide, I read it over several times for a tournament so I would be certain to have rules correct and I've basically just stuck to the same Code since.
Thank you for those links! They'll come in handy for ship names.
And as for stickler for the code, I think that you can choose to pick another one yourself if you want. I think it mentions rerolls just in case you do decide to roll for it. And I think that would be a good opportunity to roll for it myself. You pick the one you really want and then let fate give you a bonus.
And one more question. If I take the Always Take What You Are Owed Amendment and I use it to take an additional Great Endrinwork, can I take the same one for different ships? For example, if I had three frigates in an Iron Sky Squadron, could I take Malefic Skymines for all three of them? One for your regular edrinwork, one for having the battalion, and one for having the Amendment?
Thank you for those links! They'll come in handy for ship names.
And as for stickler for the code, I think that you can choose to pick another one yourself if you want. I think it mentions rerolls just in case you do decide to roll for it. And I think that would be a good opportunity to roll for it myself. You pick the one you really want and then let fate give you a bonus.
And one more question. If I take the Always Take What You Are Owed Amendment and I use it to take an additional Great Endrinwork, can I take the same one for different ships? For example, if I had three frigates in an Iron Sky Squadron, could I take Malefic Skymines for all three of them? One for your regular edrinwork, one for having the battalion, and one for having the Amendment?
Like artifacts, you can have multiples of the same one in your army (you just can't have more than one on the same model). However, Always Take What You Are Owed specifically grants an artifact which =/= a great endrinwork. So you can't pick an extra endrinwork using that amendment, only an artifact.
Oh so Always Take What You Are Owed won't give me an extra Great Endrinwork, but I can gain extra endrinworks for having battalions and it is possible to take the same endrinwork twice, just on different ships? And every ship can only have one.
So in a fleet with an Iron Sky Squadron, I'll have access to two Great Endrinworks (one per normal plus one for the battalion), and I could give two ships the same endrinwork, but only one endrinwork for each ship? Sorry if this is obvious, but I want to get it right for my first game.
Also is it just me or is There's No Trading With Some People a no brainer?
Yeah..uh..don't listen to NinthMusketeer. "Always take what you are owed" specifically states you can take an additional "Artefact of Power" There's no restrictions listed there. "Artefacts of Power" in the book are Great Endrinworks, Aethermatic Weapons, and Treasures of the Sky-Ports. All three of these are directly under artefacts.
It does state heroes can equip an artefact of power, but literally all three things are under the catagory and none of the three are specifically stated as being what you can take.
Well, at present I wouldn't need ATWYO because two works will do. I was looking at the Malefic Skymines, but in truth at present I think sticking The Last Word on each Frigates Aethershot Carbines would be the best way to go. They aren't terribly powerful weapons but I reckon they'd be more likely to do damage than the one shot main gun. And it would let me get aggressive with the ships.
"If a Kharadron Overlords army includes any Heroes, then one may bear an artifact of power. ... You may choose one additional hero to have an artifact of power for each warscroll battalion in your army."
"Additionally, if a Kharadron Overlords army includes any Skyvessels, then one may include a great endrinwork. ... You may choose one additional Skyvessels to have a great endrinwork for each warscroll battalion in your army."
Note how this is called out as being in addition to artifacts of power, as compared to things like Stormcast lanterns or bloodsecrator standards that are specifically named as being instead of.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides... You just said above that each endrinwork and artifact is unique but that's wrong; you can have multiples of the security one in an army. I don't think you have strong rule credibility right now.
NinthMusketeer wrote: "If a Kharadron Overlords army includes any Heroes, then one may bear an artifact of power. ... You may choose one additional hero to have an artifact of power for each warscroll battalion in your army."
"Additionally, if a Kharadron Overlords army includes any Skyvessels, then one may include a great endrinwork. ... You may choose one additional Skyvessels to have a great endrinwork for each warscroll battalion in your army."
Note how this is called out as being in addition to artifacts of power, as compared to things like Stormcast lanterns or bloodsecrator standards that are specifically named as being instead of.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides... You just said above that each endrinwork and artifact is unique but that's wrong; you can have multiples of the security one in an army. I don't think you have strong rule credibility right now.
I forgot that Sigmar let's you take the same thing more than once, sue me. I do however have the book right in front of me and the FIRST THING under Artefacts of Power are Great Endrinworks. So..yeah..try again.
The other two are not called out specifically. So by your logic heroes can't equip anything on the two pages.
"Alternatively, pick one of the tables on the opposite page..."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now if we want to go with your interpretation that endrinwork are artifacts, then they are allocated from the same pool. This means an army with one battalion and always take what you are owed gets three models which can have an artifact, chosen from the endrinwork or other two tables as appropriate.
If endrinworks are not artifacts, then the same army gets three heroes with artifacts AND two skyvessels with endrinworks.
I'm still sticking to you being wrong on this. All three tables are under Artefacts of Power. Therefore all three are considered Artefacts of Power. I could be wrong. GW has no FAQ on this and they are incredibly bad at things like this. Why place them on the same pages without any distinction if they aren't the same? Why name all three differently but specifically want two tables to be different from the third and only two of them to be what the pages title them as?
Also towards your edit: No. You're twisting my words entirely. The book does state you get an artefact on your hero and a skyvessel gets an endrinwork. But Always take what you're owed allows another. By the entire way the book is set up, you should then be allowed to take 2 heroes with artefacts and a skyvessel with 1. Or alternatively take 1 hero with an artefact and 2 skyvessels with them.
Because the very first thing under artifacts of power is the two paragraphs explaining how the tables work and the distinction between hero artifacts and great endrinworks.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Because the very first thing under artifacts of power is the two paragraphs explaining how the tables work and the distinction between hero artifacts and great endrinworks.
When you make lists, do you give yourself one artifact/endrinwork +1 per battalion, or do you give yourself 1 artifact and 1 endrinwork +1 artifact and +1 endrinwork per battalion?
I thought it was 1 Aethermatic Weapon, 1 Treasure Of The Sky-Ports and 1 Great Endrinwork for your army, with an additional one of each for each battalion?
The rules say that you can take one for a boat and one for a hero. So far literally none of the battalions that can be run under 2000 points seem at all appealing so I don't run any.
But the rules that you're asking about, if I did take a battalion, I would take one on another hero. It specifically mentions that a hero can take another one per battalion. It doesn't say a skyvessel gets an additional per battalion.
You're just reading too far into them saying heroes get an artefact of power. Heroes get access to two different tables for their artefacts while a skyvessel only has the one table. It just makes it far easier. Going over what the paragraphs state, nothing at all says that only the opposite page are what you can take under that Amendment.
Edit:I did just notice the skyvessel part. So I guess one on a hero and one on a boat per battalion.
mmzero252 wrote: The rules say that you can take one for a boat and one for a hero. So far literally none of the battalions that can be run under 2000 points seem at all appealing so I don't run any.
But the rules that you're asking about, if I did take a battalion, I would take one on another hero. It specifically mentions that a hero can take another one per battalion. It doesn't say a skyvessel gets an additional per battalion.
You're just reading too far into them saying heroes get an artefact of power. Heroes get access to two different tables for their artefacts while a skyvessel only has the one table. It just makes it far easier. Going over what the paragraphs state, nothing at all says that only the opposite page are what you can take under that Amendment.
Edit:I did just notice the skyvessel part. So I guess one on a hero and one on a boat per battalion.
First off, you don't seem to know the rules very clearly at all since that is the third time youve made a factually inaccurate claim. Secondly, when it is an advantage to you, you are counting artifacts and endrinworks separately to give yourself more of them. But when it comes to the amendment you suddenly switch gears and say they are the same. Either endrinworks are artifacts of power and accordingly reduce the number you have available for heroes when you use them, or they aren't artifacts of power and the amendment can't be used to gain them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Future War Cultist wrote: I thought it was 1 Aethermatic Weapon, 1 Treasure Of The Sky-Ports and 1 Great Endrinwork for your army, with an additional one of each for each battalion?
Note how both the weapon and treasure charts are referred to as artifacts of power, and how it says a hero assigned an artifact can be given one from either table. If it were one per table per battalion then armies like Stormcast would be getting 4 artifacts just for showing up!
What did I say wrong this time since you seem to be the expert on how it's precisely worded in the book I'm literally reading. The only thing I forgot was that sigmar lets you take the same thing more than once. Sorry I assumed it was still like 40k where a unique piece of gear doesn't suddenly multiply on a whim.
And I've not made any conflicting claims about anything. The amendment says you get a new artefact. Artefacts are both for boats and heroes since all three charts are under the label "Artefacts of Power". The paragraphs say you get one for a hero and one for a boat. Additionally it states you get one for a hero and one for a boat per battalion. That's what I've been saying. It's all right there to read, I'm not sure how you're missing this.
Multiples of the same artifact can be taken. The first thing under artifacts of power is not endrinworks, and an army does gain an extra endrinwork per battalion.
I agree that an army gets one artifact and one endrinwork, plus one of each per battalion. It works that way because they are two separate things. Let me put it this way, where does it say that endrinworks ARE the same as artifacts of power? Your only argument is that it's because they are from the same section, which is because they have overlapping rules. Much like a mournfang's ball of ice is listed under shooting weapons despite it not working the same as shooting attacks.
I think you may need your eyes checked. The first table under it IS Great Endrinworks...
Also the entire first line proves you wrong anyhow. You were too focused on the paragraphs to even realize.
"These artefacts are crafted in the sprawling forges and foundries of the sky-ports. They can be aethermatic weapons, masterwrought armour or wondrous pieces of technology borne by skyvessels, but all are potent tools in the hands of the Kharadron Overlords."
The description even says that the artefacts "borne by skyvessels" are artefacts of power. That would be "part of skyvessels" or shown on the table below as Great Endrinworks.
So I guess I was right the whole time.
So your entire argument is that fluff trumps rules, I see why this has been going nowhere. And no, the first thing on the page is the description of how they work. The first TABLE is endrinworks but that was never what you said.
Edit: I suppose it's four factually inaccurate claims since you also stated that the two hero charts were not called out specifically when they are.
You can continue to make up whatever you want and twist words to try and prove yourself right. I'm going by what the book states. I've made one error in rules and it doesn't even apply to anything we've been arguing about.
That said, you can continue to pass over information in the book and be wrong. It really just puts you at a disadvantage when it comes to your army. RAW I'm right. The book and wording agrees with me. The whole two page entry on artefacts agrees with me. If they intended it differently they would have separated Endrinworks into their own catagory.
mmzero252 wrote: You can continue to make up whatever you want and twist words to try and prove yourself right. I'm going by what the book states. I've made one error in rules and it doesn't even apply to anything we've been arguing about.
That said, you can continue to pass over information in the book and be wrong. It really just puts you at a disadvantage when it comes to your army. RAW I'm right. The book and wording agrees with me. The whole two page entry on artefacts agrees with me. If they intended it differently they would have separated Endrinworks into their own catagory.
This is downright false. I have quoted rules every step of the way and you have gotten them plainly, undeniably wrong even when it is right in front of you. You said duplicate artifacts can't be taken. They can. You said the first thing under artifacts is the endrinwork table. It isn't. You said the description of artifacts for heroes does not call out the two tables on the opposite page. It does. You said that an army doesn't get an extra endrinwork per battalion. It does. This is right there in black and white. The ONLY place an endrinwork is categorized as an "artifact" is in a fluff snippet, and if we want to be that pedantic it is being described as an "artifact" and not an "artifact of power" so from a strict RAW that does not even work. Every argument you have made has been to say I am wrong and only once have you provided a specific piece of evidence to support that they are the same.
It's not even that big a deal wether they are or not, but when you make false claims about the rules, deny it, then make false claims about me in response that pisses me off.
I stated my piece and pointed out everything that proves I'm correct. You're pointing out irrelevant and entirely false claims about what I've said and twisting my words to try and discredit me.
As I said before, misread the pages all you want. All it does is put your side at a disadvantage in the long run. I'm done with this argument and your lying.
Back to the topic in hand, It seems that until recently Duradin had a theme of being slow but sturdy, Kharadron is kinda breaking that with their playstyle, You think it would blend in well in a Duradin army? like if we had included Fyreslayers or Dispossessed? I'm asking because I'm wondering what to expand on after I get a fleet together, I was going for Free Company because Aesthetically they go well together. But I'm wondering if there is some form of Synergy between the Duradin Factions?
IronDerp wrote: Back to the topic in hand, It seems that until recently Duradin had a theme of being slow but sturdy, Kharadron is kinda breaking that with their playstyle, You think it would blend in well in a Duradin army? like if we had included Fyreslayers or Dispossessed? I'm asking because I'm wondering what to expand on after I get a fleet together, I was going for Free Company because Aesthetically they go well together. But I'm wondering if there is some form of Synergy between the Duradin Factions?
A multiple Duardin faction army would be pretty cool. I'm no expert but aren't the Fyreslayers more of a foot slogging hoard type army? They seem like they'd be kinda slow. Too slow to keep up with the Overlords. Unless they have some sort of boost I don't know about.
But the dwarf units from the ironweld arsenal would work really well with them. The artillery can hang back with some mortar equipped thunders whilst the gyrocopters can help escort the ships.
Overlords can be a fairly slow army as well, but seem to be able to break free of the mold by using their skyriggers and skyvessels. But despite their speed, a lot of things the overlords have seem to prefer being charged instead of charging. So it ends up being a game of chicken kind of. You want them to charge your skyvessels. Once they do you follow up with the units you want in combat after.
I feel like having a strong back line of regular duardin could be useful with that style of play. Overlords keeping them distracted and regular guys gunning away.
Edit: Or you could have the big skyvessels stay back and let fyreslayers charge up the board as a distraction. I think it would work out either way.
IronDerp wrote: Back to the topic in hand, It seems that until recently Duradin had a theme of being slow but sturdy, Kharadron is kinda breaking that with their playstyle, You think it would blend in well in a Duradin army? like if we had included Fyreslayers or Dispossessed? I'm asking because I'm wondering what to expand on after I get a fleet together, I was going for Free Company because Aesthetically they go well together. But I'm wondering if there is some form of Synergy between the Duradin Factions?
On a theoretical level, yes. The most glaring hole in the Kharadron army is a lack of basic infantry that can line up in front to add numbers, wounds count, and decent melee hitting power. Arkanaught company are generally too expensive for this, and are pretty crummy in melee overall. Skyroggers are solid melee options but are way on the elite/specialist end of things. But both Dispossessed and Fyrelsayers have melee infantry in abundance, with a diverse range going from common to semi-competitive, anvil to hammer.
The problem is in the points. Dispossessed suck right now, their infantry cost way too much. Fyreslayers aren't much better (and the models are way too expensive). Which means the combined arms duardin isn't very good right now. It can make fun lists with some alright synergy, but there isn't any benefit there that's worth breaking allegiance/losing a hurricanum to get.
There's only so much that can be done about half-naked dwarves that nail gold into their arms... Though it would be interesting if Fyreslayers can get something like the old Anvil of Doom... Kinda imagine a Runesmith angrily channeling fire while Honored attendants carry the thing...
That or they have duradin shield bearers... in which the leader is carried by two dwarves on a platform... One of the things I loved about dwarves was how crazy some of the stuff got. Like the Grudgethrower, which was just a rock that was infused with dwarven anger that it would make things easier to hit...
Granted dwarves riding giant flaming salamanders and steampunk dwarves that shoot lasers from their eyes and guns from their mustaches is pretty awesome in itself.
IronDerp wrote: There's only so much that can be done about half-naked dwarves that nail gold into their arms... Though it would be interesting if Fyreslayers can get something like the old Anvil of Doom... Kinda imagine a Runesmith angrily channeling fire while Honored attendants carry the thing...
That or they have duradin shield bearers... in which the leader is carried by two dwarves on a platform... One of the things I loved about dwarves was how crazy some of the stuff got. Like the Grudgethrower, which was just a rock that was infused with dwarven anger that it would make things easier to hit...
Granted dwarves riding giant flaming salamanders and steampunk dwarves that shoot lasers from their eyes and guns from their mustaches is pretty awesome in itself.
Funny that you should mention the Anvil of Doom, because I think the whole rune smiting thing the Fyreslayers do could be expanded upon. Maybe they could write up a series of runes that function similar to the prayers or spells of other factions, and they're activated by the Runesmiters. This would be in addition to the usual artifacts of power every faction deserves.
Actually, could somebody explain the differences between the Runesmitters and Runemasters? What's the role of each one?
And for some reason you lose your Mustache... which is weird... or does the entire priesthood just shave that part off? no wonder the younger ones wear a mask...
IronDerp wrote: And for some reason you lose your Mustache... which is weird... or does the entire priesthood just shave that part off? no wonder the younger ones wear a mask...
I assume that the facial hair styling is indicative of a common look rather than a universal one. Suffice it to say that runemasters with shaved mustaches were likely once runesmiters with shaved mustaches.
mmzero252 wrote: Plus I don't run any of the battalions because I find Frigates are a terrible unit for their cost. I tend to take Settle The Grudges, Always Take What You Are Owed, and There's No Trading With Some People. For a command trait I've been simply taking Stickler for the Code to also have Surrender is Rarely Profitable.
The combination there allows me to finish off a key unit if I need to, keep a squad of company men alive after a devastating attack, reroll ALL THE MINIGUN 1's EVER, and bring two artifacts for my gunhaulers to have.
It's all been working out fairly well in my experience.
I'm very suprised to hear this. I thought frigates where the most viable of all the skyvessels and the gunhaulers where a really subpar option. Could you tell me how the gunhaulers are working out for you?
Gunhaulers are solid because they can absorb wounds for more expensive skyvessels, and because they benefit from the ironclad's AOE vessel buff. Frigates are also solid, but they can seem bad because they aren't particularly good at any one thing. But their flexibility and adaptibility is extremely high, though that comes with a steeper learning curve than most units. Kharadrons in general have a steepish learning curve for that matter, barring someone using mortar/khemist cheese.
Future War Cultist wrote: I suppose it's because frigates sit firmly in the middle. Such units always seem lack lustre. But I still think it's solid.
And are you guys telling me that the guy on the back of the big magma monster is the junior rune smith? I wasn't expecting that.
For some reason there is no 'Runemaster on Magmadroth' warscroll, even though they exist in the fluff and are even listed as an option to include in a battalion warscroll! I think its because there is no explicit model for it, but GW could easily include instructions for 'converting' (literally assemble exactly like a runesmiter on 'droth but put a runemaster model on top instead) and call it a day. Though the runemaster warscroll needs work anyways, because as-is the ur-gold rule works far more to the enemies' advantage than anything else.
Future War Cultist wrote: I suppose it's because frigates sit firmly in the middle. Such units always seem lack lustre. But I still think it's solid.
And are you guys telling me that the guy on the back of the big magma monster is the junior rune smith? I wasn't expecting that.
Frigates are an okay distraction for the enemy. I would just prefer to have an extra gunhauler than a frigate. Certainly an ironclad is great too, but it costs a lot more. Frigates just perform fairly terribly when objectives aren't the focus. It's only good for transporting units and 280 points is way too much for that when most games people play around my area are just freeform kill games.
I'm hoping GW expands the Kharadron ships with something like an actual Gunship, using the Frigate as a base and removing the transport capacity in favor of things like a torpedo bay and an full on broadside.
One thing that irks me is that the Endrinmaster costs the same amount of points as the Admiral despite having worse stats and no command ability
IronDerp wrote: I'm hoping GW expands the Kharadron ships with something like an actual Gunship, using the Frigate as a base and removing the transport capacity in favor of things like a torpedo bay and an full on broadside.
That would be awesome! Though I doubt that will happen. But like you said they should have made the frigate like a destroyer type of ship. The ironclad as the troop carrier and buffer and the gunhauler as it is, maybe just 20 point cheaper
We know that ships bigger than ironclads exist. They're just very rare. But they deserve to be included in the game. How do we get forgeworld onto it? They built the tau manta so I think they could handle this.
IronDerp wrote: I'm hoping GW expands the Kharadron ships with something like an actual Gunship, using the Frigate as a base and removing the transport capacity in favor of things like a torpedo bay and an full on broadside.
One thing that irks me is that the Endrinmaster costs the same amount of points as the Admiral despite having worse stats and no command ability
It's the d3 repair. He also has an extra wound, for some reason.
Anybody running Gyrocopters or Gyrobombers with Kharodron Overlords? I kind of like the models and as long as they've got a common paint scheme they should fit in with the sky vessels. Just wondering how well they fit play wise. I'm not a super optimizing kind of player, so they don't need to be top notch, but I don't want to get something that just doesn't really work at all.
Well the thing about the Gyrocopters and Gyrobombers is they don't really bring anything useful to the Kharadron nor do they help them out, endrinriggers/skywardens can do the same job but better. It seems fun to include them in a narrative story though,
You could combine a force of Fyreslayers that utilize magmic tunneling along with Kharadron Overlords. There would be duardin going every which way, all in your opponents deployment zone by turn 2.
IronDerp wrote: Back to the topic in hand, It seems that until recently Duradin had a theme of being slow but sturdy, Kharadron is kinda breaking that with their playstyle, You think it would blend in well in a Duradin army? like if we had included Fyreslayers or Dispossessed? I'm asking because I'm wondering what to expand on after I get a fleet together, I was going for Free Company because Aesthetically they go well together. But I'm wondering if there is some form of Synergy between the Duradin Factions?
On a theoretical level, yes. The most glaring hole in the Kharadron army is a lack of basic infantry that can line up in front to add numbers, wounds count, and decent melee hitting power. Arkanaught company are generally too expensive for this, and are pretty crummy in melee overall. Skyroggers are solid melee options but are way on the elite/specialist end of things. But both Dispossessed and Fyrelsayers have melee infantry in abundance, with a diverse range going from common to semi-competitive, anvil to hammer.
The problem is in the points. Dispossessed suck right now, their infantry cost way too much. Fyreslayers aren't much better (and the models are way too expensive). Which means the combined arms duardin isn't very good right now. It can make fun lists with some alright synergy, but there isn't any benefit there that's worth breaking allegiance/losing a hurricanum to get.
I think that, should they do a bit of reduction on dwarf warriors, they'd make a nasty combo come GHB II:
-Main battleline masses of dwarf warriors.
-One mob of grundstokk thunderers with a khemyst.
The rest season to test with magmadroths and some fyreslayer meelee goodness.
Which artifact weapon would you guys recommend for an Admiral? Fluff wise I favour the Hammer of Aethermatic Might but I'm thinking that the Aethershock Bludgeon is better overall.
Future War Cultist wrote:Which artifact weapon would you guys recommend for an Admiral? Fluff wise I favour the Hammer of Aethermatic Might but I'm thinking that the Aethershock Bludgeon is better overall.
IMO it doesn't matter since we're not a melee faction and I usually give artifact priority to my officers rather than my general, But for the sake of fun and fluff, I would say Aethershock Earbuster actually... The bludgeon seems redundant since most of your enemies are going to have +4 armor at best, and you don't want to expose your general often in a fight... We're not the kind of army that's going to endure a slugfest, so do as much damage as you can and finish the fight quickly.
I was thinking that an admiral with the bludgeon and the grudge bearer trait would be a pretty decent fighter. But now I'll reconsider.
This book looks cool though!
Also, it's a little early to be thinking up of new units for the Overlords but I've already done so. What about some sort of medic character? Who belongs to a guild of doctors. See since the Overlords have a sort of Victorian thing going on I thought it would be cool to bring some of that quackery into the game. Things like the Violet Ray, except that here they actually work.
I'd make him roughly the same as a Khemist or Navigator in stats, and as an oddity for the army he has no ranged weapons. Just an Aethermatic saw for amputations along with some other medical themed weapon. A pure support character.
The other character idea I had was a Grunstok Officer. We've got gunnery sergeants as the unit leaders, but how about an actual officer? I was inspired by the tempestor prime for his choice of weapons; a command rod of some description and a powerful pistol. His abilities can be a big boost for grunstok units (IG style orders?) and he can make a good second in command for the admiral.
What do you guys think? If I get enough spare parts I might try making these.
Future War Cultist wrote:Which artifact weapon would you guys recommend for an Admiral? Fluff wise I favour the Hammer of Aethermatic Might but I'm thinking that the Aethershock Bludgeon is better overall.
IMO it doesn't matter since we're not a melee faction and I usually give artifact priority to my officers rather than my general, But for the sake of fun and fluff, I would say Aethershock Earbuster actually... The bludgeon seems redundant since most of your enemies are going to have +4 armor at best, and you don't want to expose your general often in a fight... We're not the kind of army that's going to endure a slugfest, so do as much damage as you can and finish the fight quickly.
Lord Kragan wrote:
New stuff for your stunties' lovers.
I now want context... give me context.
New novel from Josh Reynolds. Grungi hires a bunch of murderho- valiant heroes! (two duardin and two humans) to go hunt a weapon. Grungi is the big guy.
I'm kinda wondering a few things about KO and the duradin in general.
1. You think the Overlords would willingly remove their helmets at any time? Like if they talk to someone or if they decide to visit a bar? Or do they just wear the suits all the time and can somehow drink from their helmets?
2. How common would Females be? I mean it seems Duradin can be found in just about every realm, and while I'm guessing seeing a female walking about is pretty rare, The Duradin seem to be ok population-wise. Fyreslayers seem to be ok population wise considering they've got a hold in every realm...
3. You think the Kharadron will get a notable role in the next campaign story? I'm hoping they do more interactions with friends and foes alike in future stories.
1 - There are images in the battletome of them walking around cities with no helms, so we know they do. All fluff indicated that the suit is somewhat of a deployment uniform---when they are out on the skyvessels these would be on all the time except when they are inside the vessel. The suits are needed because of the toxic and corrosive nature of the air they frequently must venture through, not to mention the aether-gold itself
2 - They have women, the military is simply male. There are countless examples in real world history where women would be unseen on the battlefield, this is the same thing. One of the Fyreslayer stories even has a female as an important character, she runs a mining guild but if that is indicative of typical female Duardin work we don't know.
So it occurred to me that I haven't brought up Titan Forge here; they have a line of Steampunk Dwarves that are perfect for the counts-as Kharadron player and/or for Ironweld Arsenal:
Those are sweet models. Definitely some Ironweld potential there.
Also, can I ask you guys for some help in creating my overlord skyport? I've settled on green as their colour, but the name is escaping me. A little bit of back story; my skyport is a relatively up and coming one that's famous for its ale and hedonistic lifestyle. It can be best described as Las Vegas/Amsterdam in the realms! It's main exports would be booze, which also requires them to work with people capable of growing it so there's definitely still some business to take care off. Plus the routes to the city need to be protected.
I've got this dwarven dictionary to work with, and the three names that come to me are Gorog (ale, also high spirits and drinking binge), Hazkal (again, recently brewed ale, also fiery young warrior) and Trogg (feast or heavy drinking bout). Barak-Gorog or Barak-Hazkal has a nice ring to it yes? "City Of High Spirits" sounds plausible. What do you think?
I wouldn't go as far as to say it's like Rapture. That seems a little extreme. It's just a city that's known for having fun. It's got breweries, casinos, music and beer halls (because it's old timey), festivals etc. It's the booze mostly. I'd say it's a bit like Joseph Bugman's brewery reborn in the sky.
I think I'm going to be stuck on this name for a while.
IronDerp wrote: I know the feeling, I'm also trying to figure the name of my personal city-port... Which oddly enough also uses a green color-scheme.
Are they fun loving drinkers and gamblers too?
I had my first game with my Overlords today, against Stormcast. Lost. Concussors are nasty. Having said that, if my opponent wasn't so jammy with his save rolls those concussors would have been wiped out in one turn of shooting.
I went with the Barak Urbaz rules too, just for the time being. The super khemists are great but everything else is average.
Also, can I ask you guys for some help in creating my overlord skyport? I've settled on green as their colour, but the name is escaping me. A little bit of back story; my skyport is a relatively up and coming one that's famous for its ale and hedonistic lifestyle. It can be best described as Las Vegas/Amsterdam in the realms! It's main exports would be booze, which also requires them to work with people capable of growing it so there's definitely still some business to take care off. Plus the routes to the city need to be protected.
I've got this dwarven dictionary to work with, and the three names that come to me are Gorog (ale, also high spirits and drinking binge), Hazkal (again, recently brewed ale, also fiery young warrior) and Trogg (feast or heavy drinking bout). Barak-Gorog or Barak-Hazkal has a nice ring to it yes? "City Of High Spirits" sounds plausible. What do you think?
Harhar, I went the same kind of route with my Sky-Port, Barak-Hazval.
Barak-Hazval: City of Drink/Brew/Sustenance
Barak-Hazval is the premier brewer and exporter of Duardin ales, meads and other fine drinks to the Kharadron Overlords. Hazval Barrel-Class tanker skyvessels are known to receive aid very quickly from patrol and privateer fleets should they come into danger. While often known as a loud and good cheer, Hazval duardin are known to become very tempestuous should failure of privateering ventures lead toward the Krenka Groehnga" or "Place of No Ale". When out of drink they become downright mean. As such many of their crew members may have been Captains of their skyvessels one or more times.
While not as conservative as Barak-Thryng they are known to worship Valaya in particular (she being the inventor of Duardin brewing). Some say their cheer and quickness to retribution reflects the ancestor-goddesses's more peaceful and warlike aspects.
Also thinking that since they do not have a Grundstock Academy in their Skyports they hire their services from Barak-Mhornar, since they believe you can only trust the most sneaky of Duardin to protect the booze. Which would also allow me to paint Mhornar and use their Skyports Abilities when I like it.
Well pirates like Blackbeard mixed gunpowder into their drinks for a number of crazy reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if a particularly eccentric Overlord did a version of that with aether.
Also, wrote a fluff story for a friend's ongoing corrupt Sylvaneth project and this time put Duardin in it. Hope you like it.
I got my first skyrigger unit over the weekend. After much thought, I've decided to make them skywardens. That drill Cannon is too good to pass up, especially against those damn concussors that continue to plague me.
Speaking of that, here's an 1800pt list to fight them:
1 admiral
1 khemist
1 ironclad
2 frigates and 2 arkanauht companies in an iron sky squadron
1 further arkanauht company
1 unit of skywardens
I was thinking of going Barak Urbaz rules. To get the most out of the khemist, and the extra artefact. What do you guys think?
Endrinriggers can take the drill cannon too, and the Khemist buff does wonders on their melee weapon. Urbaz is one of the stronger sky-ports at the moment, if not the strongest, because of the Khemist buff.
I was seriously tempted to do endrinriggers, but what put me off was that even with their gear they'd struggle against the storm cast. Especially the concussors, damn them to hell.
I wish I got a chance to see how good the melee weapon was on those balloon boys. I took a group of three into skirmish and only the one had his saw. Missed with every single roll. Didn't exactly need it since I'm fairly sure Kharadron are STACKED for skirmish. I basically won each round no contest.
There's gonna be a tournament at the end of next month for Sigmar that's a 4000 point per side 2v2 thing. I've gotta get my duders all painted up and buy an Ironclad. Anyone have luck with/actually run an Iron Sky Command yet? It looks powerful on paper but requires around 1300 points minimum.
you could hide them a bit since they are able to hide in cover, and have them flank around... Or use a bare bones unit to act as emergency repairs before enhancing the charge.
Future War Cultist wrote: I was seriously tempted to do endrinriggers, but what put me off was that even with their gear they'd struggle against the storm cast. Especially the concussors, damn them to hell.
You'll especially want to rend -2 melee weapon against concussors, making endrinriggers even more the favored option against them. Its likely that dracothian guard will get a points increase in GHB2 anyways though.
I'm already having regrets making them skywardens.
My thinking was, even with their excellent weapons they'd still be no match for elite stormcast in close combat. Especially if there's only three of them. I know they can take the same specials as the skywardens but I was going to run my future endrinrigger unit all basic to help differentiate between them. But I think I shouldn't be so rigid.
well you could single them out as Endrinriggers with the obvious things...
1) they don't strap mines on their balloons (which I will admit is dumb both from a design point of view as well as the rules for using them)
2) just put the extra accessories on them (Wrenches, drills, rags and whatnot for the inevitable repairs)
you could also give them alterations into their armor, they probably need specially treated metals and uniforms to deal with the tools needed to make repairs on the fly... that and they're constantly under fire from enemy missile troops, spells and the occasional Sky beast that wants to make a meal of the stocky duradin doing repairs on the fly
Mortar is the best weapon by a fair margin, ideal loadout is 5 of them. Aethercannon can be worth using if you know what you're doing, 5 of them or 4+rife on the unit champion.
I thought that the mortar would struggle to get past storm cast armour saves. But this is only the first half of a big unit so I can stick mortars on the rest.
Easy enough to convert by press-molding/obtaining extra 'grenade' bits to put on the end. No rend is a drawback, but 36" range means they can pretty much pick any target they want, which is big.
Also I've got a new 1500pt (well, 1420pt) Overlord list:
1 Admiral
1 Khemist
1 Ironclad
1 Frigate
2 units of 10 Arkanauht fighters
1 unit of 5 Grundstok Thunderers
1 unit of 3 Skywardens
My gut says go with Barak Urbaz. Also, I'm taking off the gloves and giving out as many light skyhooks as I can to the fighters. The khemist can boost both fighter units at once to deliver 12 shots on the first turn (which I will definitely be getting!). Between that, the Ironclad, the frigate, the thunderers and the drill cannon of the skywardens, surely I can kill those damn dracoth riding donkey-caves right?
And I'm certain that once I kill them, his entire battle line will collapse. Because a couple of small units of judicators can't outshoot me.
I'm also thinking of The Last Word for the Ironclad and Gattelssons Endless Repeater for the Admiral. If I go Urbaz I can have another artifact. Might go for the Balebreath mask. Anything that throws out mortal wounds has to be good.
I'm also thinking of The Last Word for the Ironclad and Gattelssons Endless Repeater for the Admiral. If I go Urbaz I can have another artifact. Might go for the Balebreath mask. Anything that throws out mortal wounds has to be good.
Can confirm that an Endless Repeater on the Admiral is beautiful. His hammer hardly needs to be better, but his gun firing that many times is too good to pass up.
I'm also thinking of The Last Word for the Ironclad and Gattelssons Endless Repeater for the Admiral. If I go Urbaz I can have another artifact. Might go for the Balebreath mask. Anything that throws out mortal wounds has to be good.
My problem with the mask is that I think you roll once for every enemy unit in range, but the wording is weirdly vague and I don't want it to cause an issue mid-game. Hopefully GW can fix it up with an FAQ.
I have prefer the repeater on an Endrinmaster myself, for multiple eye lasers!
FYI for those interested in Fyreslayer fluff; the current digital monday story on the community site (Voltarung road) is a great read. It was by far the best short story in the Fyreslayer novel, and offered a lot of insight into society off the battlefield; how a runeson becomes a runfather, marriage customs, what role women serve, relations between different clans, and a ton more tidbits are scattered throughout. Personally I love reading about fluff that broadens the world like that so it was a great read for me.
Yeah i have read it and your right it had great back story for Fyreslayers. Hoping for more novels soon. I got excited about this until i learnt i had already read it.
Madmatt wrote: Better not be, I have 2 as well for an Iron Sky Squadron, although i rarely play with points so if that is the only downside it won't bother me.
Also what colour scheme are you painting your army?
Good question! My instinct is to go green, because no official skyport uses it. Plus it's a nice steampunky colour.
@ NinthMusketeer
Maybe 180 is a bit much, but factoring in the battalion bonuses, the ability to take an extra artifact and the ability to deploy everything in a single drop needs to be factored in.
Green is a good colour, I tried to do a kind of turquoise green which looked good in my mind but turned out pretty Sh*t. I did see a good one on GW website with all the other readers models, should check it out.
I wanted to go with the Barak thryng colour scheme but White is too hard for me. In the end I went with Urbaz as it looks quite steampunky and it was a different technique of armour painting I've never tried. Gotta say I am really happy with the results.
Maybe 180 is a bit much, but factoring in the battalion bonuses, the ability to take an extra artifact and the ability to deploy everything in a single drop needs to be factored in.
GW failing to factor that is why battalions were undercosted before, but the Kharadron ones specifically were largely OK. Short of Iron Sky Command they just aren't worth taking in GHB2 points.
Mhornar can really hurt your own side if you roll badly, but now with khemists FAQ'd I bet Urbaz won't be that widely used and will fall off real hard.
I can understand why Urbaz was popular but i think the rules for Barak-Thryng were pretty good. Aimed at focus firing on up to 3 units, handy if you pick the enemies most dangerous.
I'll try and upload some but i can never figure out how to other than just in my own gallery.
Mhornar does lend itself to being quite strong if you can deploy strategically and get great rolls first turn. You can move a huge distance toward objectives and still be very aggressive towards the enemy.
I take it that Mhornar's special ability would require the general to be outside of a ship? Because unless otherwise stated, models onboard a ship are effectively no longer in the game right?
And stacking. Do different abilities that grant the same reward still get to stack? I understand before that people might have spammed khemists for multiple extra attacks but now it's strictly one extra attack only. But if I had something else, something completely different, that also grants extra attacks, would that be allowed to stack on top of the khemists ability?
*whispers* In truth, this is actually a question for my Bloodbound.
It would stack unless it specifies that it doesn't. Khemists don't stack now because the FAQ specifically says that the effects of multiple khemists do not stack.
I take it that Mhornar's special ability would require the general to be outside of a ship? Because unless otherwise stated, models onboard a ship are effectively no longer in the game right?
And stacking. Do different abilities that grant the same reward still get to stack? I understand before that people might have spammed khemists for multiple extra attacks but now it's strictly one extra attack only. But if I had something else, something completely different, that also grants extra attacks, would that be allowed to stack on top of the khemists ability?
*whispers* In truth, this is actually a question for my Bloodbound.
Yes, the general would have to be outside a ship. As a sidnote it is indeed this command trait which makes mhornar the strongest; run & shoot is just icing on the cake.
For the second question, yes, bonuses stack by default. The Bloodsecrator is worded so it doesn't though
I had a game with Fyreslayers the other day using their new faction abilities against greenskinz and WOW. The new abilities really add some variety, I was over halfway across the board in my first turn. I didn't roll any 6's for the extra effect but the effects i did have were still nice and added extra melee punch. Unsure how to kit out my Runefather, I tried the meteoric axe but it never hit, none of the artefacts really stand out to be honest. Too bad the mounts don't also get abilities like in the stormcast battletome.
I've now played about half a dozen games with the Overlords. No were near enough to call myself an expert, but I do have a few thoughts;
dentionation drills and grudge settler bombs. Right now the enemy have to charge you in order for you to use them. Would it be practical (and fluffy) to come up with a way for you to trigger them yourself? Like you can use them if you finish a charge within 1" of the enemy? I would like to get more aggressive with the ships.
skywardens. Could we not make them battle line? Even with conditions? This would really help us out in smaller games, and might make them a little bit more competitive when compared to endrinriggers.
navigators. Probably the least useful hero we have. Could we make him more useful, even with a points increase?
) so making a Barak Thryng force would be a nice call back to that. However, I feel like I can't pass up the opportunity to use the code system to it's full effect and make up my own.
