Here's a draft of their codex
Please note that it's a work in progress
and its inspired by this 40k theories video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdSUK-bjXd8

Right so summing up:
A Night Lords Loyalist successor chapter,
Cast out by the Imperium due to a confrentation with a Loyalist chapter,
Homeworld is now a death world,
They worship a new goddess,
They are trusted within their own system due to saving them from chaos warbands.

Seems alright, two changes I would make (personal preference):
1. I'd have the chapter found out by the Sons of Guilliman because of Silent Claw marines carrying out acts of torchure and/or falling in and out of schizophrenic psychopathy (show that they have the flaws of Night Lords geneseed) rather than just for dishonourable tactics. The problem with them having a problem with them just being sneaky is because the Raven Guard do that too.
2. Not sure whether I like the creation of a brand new Goddess, better to say they were lead by the remnents of one of the Eldar Goddess' who is seaking to use them to stop chaos.

Hope this helps!

Yay loyalist traitors! My favorite kind.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Right so summing up:
A Night Lords Loyalist successor chapter,
Cast out by the Imperium due to a confrentation with a Loyalist chapter,
Homeworld is now a death world,
They worship a new goddess,
They are trusted within their own system due to saving them from chaos warbands.

Seems alright, two changes I would make (personal preference):
1. I'd have the chapter found out by the Sons of Guilliman because of Silent Claw marines carrying out acts of torchure and/or falling in and out of schizophrenic psychopathy (show that they have the flaws of Night Lords geneseed) rather than just for dishonourable tactics. The problem with them having a problem with them just being sneaky is because the Raven Guard do that too.
2. Not sure whether I like the creation of a brand new Goddess, better to say they were lead by the remnents of one of the Eldar Goddess' who is seaking to use them to stop chaos.

Hope this helps!

Good points there I'll continue to edit it
I have many ideas in mind but the problem I'm having is wording out the lore additionally I'm waiting for all of the 8th edition codexs to be published notably the ones involving the adeptus astartes
The problem with not having them worship a new deity is the outcasts are her form of daemon they were inspired by this video by 40k theories
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kD9ReSLE6p8

I've updated the codex

So Renegade Marines

That have turned their back on the God Emperor and should be purged to the man

Awesome narrative you have going here; I like the whole death world theme.

 Aetare wrote:
Awesome narrative you have going here; I like the whole death world theme.

thanks mate

The god sounds like Cegorac the eldar laughing god,

Could the Harlequins be at the centre of all of this? have they seen colourful visions while battling eldar?

Also the whole schizophrenic ultra violent thing was more of a nurture over nature thing. The gene seed gave them some kind of thermal vision and a piercing scream. The torture thing comes from an exaggerated obsession with vigilante justice and order through fear which descended into killing and torturing people for kicks.

Taffy17 wrote:
The god sounds like Cegorac the eldar laughing god,

Could the Harlequins be at the centre of all of this? have they seen colourful visions while battling eldar?

Also the whole schizophrenic ultra violent thing was more of a nurture over nature thing. The gene seed gave them some kind of thermal vision and a piercing scream. The torture thing comes from an exaggerated obsession with vigilante justice and order through fear which descended into killing and torturing people for kicks.

not what i intended but how do i word their brutality to be more akin to the Carcharodons and they have no mercy to chaos, orks, dark eldar, tyranids, and tau.
they usually avoid conflict with allied eldar and imperial forces they'd rather sneak their way out of there stealth's always been the specialty but they'll leave with wounds regardless.
they are savage at heart due to their feral origins but not every silent claw is an aqualyan some were survivors from their previous homeworld secretis.
however your suggestion could be possible

Could they be a Raven Guard successor with a particularly violent zealous streak?

Could they're chapter master have been at the centre of some harlequin performance which showed him visions of a crippled emperor cowering on his throne while a great jester and warrior rallied his troops against chaos. This could have turned them away from the emperor and now they spend their days searching for this courageous jester who will lead them in the final battle with chaos?

Taffy17 wrote:
Could they be a Raven Guard successor with a particularly violent zealous streak?

Could they're chapter master have been at the centre of some harlequin performance which showed him visions of a crippled emperor cowering on his throne while a great jester and warrior rallied his troops against chaos. This could have turned them away from the emperor and now they spend their days searching for this courageous jester who will lead them in the final battle with chaos?

perhaps please enlighten me on what ideas you have in mind

naoki the curseblood wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
Could they be a Raven Guard successor with a particularly violent zealous streak?

Could they're chapter master have been at the centre of some harlequin performance which showed him visions of a crippled emperor cowering on his throne while a great jester and warrior rallied his troops against chaos. This could have turned them away from the emperor and now they spend their days searching for this courageous jester who will lead them in the final battle with chaos?

perhaps please enlighten me on what ideas you have in mind

That was pretty much it...

Blood Angels and Space Wolves are known for their violent tendancies as well so that's an option but they're both less sneaky and wolves don't have successors.

A Blood Angels successor could work, they're gene seed makes them particularly violent to start with, and there is stories of blood drained corpses being found occasionally when guard are garrisoned with blood angels and their successors

Taffy17 wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
Could they be a Raven Guard successor with a particularly violent zealous streak?

Could they're chapter master have been at the centre of some harlequin performance which showed him visions of a crippled emperor cowering on his throne while a great jester and warrior rallied his troops against chaos. This could have turned them away from the emperor and now they spend their days searching for this courageous jester who will lead them in the final battle with chaos?

perhaps please enlighten me on what ideas you have in mind

That was pretty much it...

Blood Angels and Space Wolves are known for their violent tendancies as well so that's an option but they're both less sneaky and wolves don't have successors.

A Blood Angels successor could work, they're gene seed makes them particularly violent to start with, and there is stories of blood drained corpses being found occasionally when guard are garrisoned with blood angels and their successors

it could be original to have a stealthy blood angel successor but the red thirst and black rage could be a problem

what if the red thirst was particularly bad and instead of trying to resist it they sneak out at night and kill and drink the blood of the guardsmen on patrol. You could also say while the red thirst was particularly bad they have a suprisingly low amount succumb to the black rage.

They could be old school night menace style vampire space marines.

They could get caught and they choose to flee for some reason instead of being wiped out.

Taffy17 wrote:
what if the red thirst was particularly bad and instead of trying to resist it they sneak out at night and kill and drink the blood of the guardsmen on patrol. You could also say while the red thirst was particularly bad they have a suprisingly low amount succumb to the black rage.

They could be old school night menace style vampire space marines.

They could get caught and they choose to flee for some reason instead of being wiped out.

perhaps i'm feeling conflicted whether i should keep them as night lord successors or make them blood angel successors
could you help me decide?

Seriously?

what do you want from an army?

Blood Angels successors is certainly more fluff friendly.

Frankly, with how many people go with "traitor legion BUT THEY'RE GOOD", it's a bit of cliche.
Just to point out too, but the parent Chapter doesn't necessarily impact the descendant. Not every Ultramarine descendant is Greco-Roman and worships the Codex (Mortifactors, Fire Hawks), not every White Scar descendant is a speed freak (Storm Dragons, Rampagers), not every Blood Angel descendant is obsessed with blood and killing (the Lamenters break this trend by being rather level-headed as Marines go).

In truth, you could give them any demeanour you like, and still pair them to any geneseed.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Blood Angels successors is certainly more fluff friendly.

Frankly, with how many people go with "traitor legion BUT THEY'RE GOOD", it's a bit of cliche.
Just to point out too, but the parent Chapter doesn't necessarily impact the descendant. Not every Ultramarine descendant is Greco-Roman and worships the Codex (Mortifactors, Fire Hawks), not every White Scar descendant is a speed freak (Storm Dragons, Rampagers), not every Blood Angel descendant is obsessed with blood and killing (the Lamenters break this trend by being rather level-headed as Marines go).

In truth, you could give them any demeanour you like, and still pair them to any geneseed.

I guess i'll change them to blood angel successor with the points you bring up plus it could give me new ideas for units

heck if you wanna be oddball and do something that's differant in being bog standard make them ultramarines sucessors. 90% of chapters are ultramarine but so few custom chapters seem to be.

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Blood Angels successors is certainly more fluff friendly.

Frankly, with how many people go with "traitor legion BUT THEY'RE GOOD", it's a bit of cliche.
Just to point out too, but the parent Chapter doesn't necessarily impact the descendant. Not every Ultramarine descendant is Greco-Roman and worships the Codex (Mortifactors, Fire Hawks), not every White Scar descendant is a speed freak (Storm Dragons, Rampagers), not every Blood Angel descendant is obsessed with blood and killing (the Lamenters break this trend by being rather level-headed as Marines go).

In truth, you could give them any demeanour you like, and still pair them to any geneseed.

I guess i'll change them to blood angel successor with the points you bring up plus it could give me new ideas for units

Noooo! Not blood angels! Night Lords are so much better!

BrianDavion wrote:
heck if you wanna be oddball and do something that's differant in being bog standard make them ultramarines sucessors. 90% of chapters are ultramarine but so few custom chapters seem to be.

I'd prefer to not to go with them i'm not really a fan of the ultramarines
I don't mean to be rude of course


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Blood Angels successors is certainly more fluff friendly.

Frankly, with how many people go with "traitor legion BUT THEY'RE GOOD", it's a bit of cliche.
Just to point out too, but the parent Chapter doesn't necessarily impact the descendant. Not every Ultramarine descendant is Greco-Roman and worships the Codex (Mortifactors, Fire Hawks), not every White Scar descendant is a speed freak (Storm Dragons, Rampagers), not every Blood Angel descendant is obsessed with blood and killing (the Lamenters break this trend by being rather level-headed as Marines go).

In truth, you could give them any demeanour you like, and still pair them to any geneseed.

I guess i'll change them to blood angel successor with the points you bring up plus it could give me new ideas for units

Noooo! Not blood angels! Night Lords are so much better!

then they'll be a vote for it
the choices are
1. night lords
2.blood angels
3.raven guard
4.mixed gene seed

Come on Night Lords!
1. They have the best paint scheme out of all the space marine chapters/legions.
2. Their Primarch was Space Batman. SPACE. FREAKIN. BATMAN!
3. How many chapters can avoid all out war by making the enemy leaders surrender out of fear of being turned into a meat cape? (Night Lords love meat capes)
4. Seriously! Space Batman!

I think this puts a pretty good arguement together for our bat eared friends. "Ave Dominus Nox"

OK that's one vote!
1. night lords 1
2.blood angels 0
3.raven guard 0
4.mixed gene seed 0

mrhappyface wrote:Come on Night Lords!
1. They have the best paint scheme out of all the space marine chapters/legions.
2. Their Primarch was Space Batman. SPACE. FREAKIN. BATMAN!
3. How many chapters can avoid all out war by making the enemy leaders surrender out of fear of being turned into a meat cape? (Night Lords love meat capes)
4. Seriously! Space Batman!

I think this puts a pretty good arguement together for our bat eared friends. "Ave Dominus Nox"

In my most humble opinion? Not really?

Again, go back to what I said - the parent Chapter has no real bearing on the descendent Chapter. It's something I think so many people overlook when making a Chapter.
"I don't want my Chapter to be Ultramarine related, they'll be just like them"
"I want my guys to be related to the World Eaters so they'll be SUPER ANGRY"
"Only the best bikers are related to the White Scars"
when that's simply not true.

Gene-seed has effect on a few things, and some physiological differences, but other than that, the Chapter's culture and demeanour can be caused by ANYTHING, under any geneseed.

All of your points there relate to the Night Lords themselves. And yes, I'll be the first one to say that those are all amazing traits (seriously, when I move onto my second HH army, they'll be Night Lords), that doesn't mean someone with their geneseed would behave anywhere near the same.
Why would a Loyalist Chapter, assuming Loyalist implanted with Traitor genes, behave ANYTHING like them? The NL geneseed was actually very stable, but it had no effect of mass rage like the Blood Angels. Any cultural thing of meat cloaks and fear tactics wouldn't be linked to their heritage at all. Hell, there could probably be an Ultramarine successor that did that.

Therefore, if OP wants an easy reason to be rage filled and suchlike, I choose Blood Angels. If OP wants any other trait, like stealth, they could pick literally ANY geneseed. I'd personally avoid using traitor ones because:
A) Very unlikely in the fluff.
B) Very much a cliche at this point.

Remember Loyalist elements of Legions from the heresy probably went extinict ages ago during the Rebellion.

And many legion survivors either joined in the scouraging or were killed because of the Horus Heresy. We know for a fact not many astartes of these loyalist legions survived as most died on Isstavan III.

Its really only fluff text by then. Most interesting chapters are from loyalist legions anyway. There are some rumored to be from traitor legions but as the codex literally puts it most are taken from the ultramarines or other chapters. Ultramarines are actually rather interesting as a first founding due many factors and plus how many can say their primarch is still alive and kicking?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

mrhappyface wrote:Come on Night Lords!
1. They have the best paint scheme out of all the space marine chapters/legions.
2. Their Primarch was Space Batman. SPACE. FREAKIN. BATMAN!
3. How many chapters can avoid all out war by making the enemy leaders surrender out of fear of being turned into a meat cape? (Night Lords love meat capes)
4. Seriously! Space Batman!

I think this puts a pretty good arguement together for our bat eared friends. "Ave Dominus Nox"

In my most humble opinion? Not really?

Again, go back to what I said - the parent Chapter has no real bearing on the descendent Chapter. It's something I think so many people overlook when making a Chapter.
"I don't want my Chapter to be Ultramarine related, they'll be just like them"
"I want my guys to be related to the World Eaters so they'll be SUPER ANGRY"
"Only the best bikers are related to the White Scars"
when that's simply not true.

Gene-seed has effect on a few things, and some physiological differences, but other than that, the Chapter's culture and demeanour can be caused by ANYTHING, under any geneseed.

All of your points there relate to the Night Lords themselves. And yes, I'll be the first one to say that those are all amazing traits (seriously, when I move onto my second HH army, they'll be Night Lords), that doesn't mean someone with their geneseed would behave anywhere near the same.
Why would a Loyalist Chapter, assuming Loyalist implanted with Traitor genes, behave ANYTHING like them? The NL geneseed was actually very stable, but it had no effect of mass rage like the Blood Angels. Any cultural thing of meat cloaks and fear tactics wouldn't be linked to their heritage at all. Hell, there could probably be an Ultramarine successor that did that.

Therefore, if OP wants an easy reason to be rage filled and suchlike, I choose Blood Angels. If OP wants any other trait, like stealth, they could pick literally ANY geneseed. I'd personally avoid using traitor ones because:
A) Very unlikely in the fluff.
B) Very much a cliche at this point.

that's two votes
1. night lords 1
2.blood angels 1
3.raven guard 0
4.mixed gene seed 0


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Remember Loyalist elements of Legions from the heresy probably went extinict ages ago during the Rebellion.

And many legion survivors either joined in the scouraging or were killed because of the Horus Heresy. We know for a fact not many astartes of these loyalist legions survived as most died on Isstavan III.

Its really only fluff text by then. Most interesting chapters are from loyalist legions anyway. There are some rumored to be from traitor legions but as the codex literally puts it most are taken from the ultramarines or other chapters. Ultramarines are actually rather interesting as a first founding due many factors and plus how many can say their primarch is still alive and kicking?

good points there but who are you voting for?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

mrhappyface wrote:Come on Night Lords!
1. They have the best paint scheme out of all the space marine chapters/legions.
2. Their Primarch was Space Batman. SPACE. FREAKIN. BATMAN!
3. How many chapters can avoid all out war by making the enemy leaders surrender out of fear of being turned into a meat cape? (Night Lords love meat capes)
4. Seriously! Space Batman!

I think this puts a pretty good arguement together for our bat eared friends. "Ave Dominus Nox"

In my most humble opinion? Not really?

Again, go back to what I said - the parent Chapter has no real bearing on the descendent Chapter. It's something I think so many people overlook when making a Chapter.
"I don't want my Chapter to be Ultramarine related, they'll be just like them"
"I want my guys to be related to the World Eaters so they'll be SUPER ANGRY"
"Only the best bikers are related to the White Scars"
when that's simply not true.

Gene-seed has effect on a few things, and some physiological differences, but other than that, the Chapter's culture and demeanour can be caused by ANYTHING, under any geneseed.

All of your points there relate to the Night Lords themselves. And yes, I'll be the first one to say that those are all amazing traits (seriously, when I move onto my second HH army, they'll be Night Lords), that doesn't mean someone with their geneseed would behave anywhere near the same.
Why would a Loyalist Chapter, assuming Loyalist implanted with Traitor genes, behave ANYTHING like them? The NL geneseed was actually very stable, but it had no effect of mass rage like the Blood Angels. Any cultural thing of meat cloaks and fear tactics wouldn't be linked to their heritage at all. Hell, there could probably be an Ultramarine successor that did that.

Therefore, if OP wants an easy reason to be rage filled and suchlike, I choose Blood Angels. If OP wants any other trait, like stealth, they could pick literally ANY geneseed. I'd personally avoid using traitor ones because:
A) Very unlikely in the fluff.
B) Very much a cliche at this point.

Yes it is a nuture over nature here but I was assuming that this chapter was founded by loyalist elements of the Night Lords rather than simply made rom their geneseed. If the founding had been made using the NL geneseed but under the guidence of say an Ultramarine Captain, then yes they would likely lack the traits of the NL. However if the founding had been over seen by a loyalist NL then they would have likely past down their teachings of stealth and fear to the chapter, perhaps some of the new members of the chapter would observer their founder falling into torcherous psychopathy during battle as many of the mentally unhinged members of the NL had.

As for cliche? It has become rather common to see renegade chapters popping up but perhaps it is a sign of more people who play Space Marines disliking the fluff of the Imperium but rather than buy a new codex they simply stamp their army with renegades.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Yes it is a nuture over nature here but I was assuming that this chapter was founded by loyalist elements of the Night Lords rather than simply made rom their geneseed. If the founding had been made using the NL geneseed but under the guidence of say an Ultramarine Captain, then yes they would likely lack the traits of the NL. However if the founding had been over seen by a loyalist NL then they would have likely past down their teachings of stealth and fear to the chapter, perhaps some of the new members of the chapter would observer their founder falling into torcherous psychopathy during battle as many of the mentally unhinged members of the NL had.

As you say, the more mentally unhinged Night Lords observed the torturous psychopathy. With a case of this, do you think that one such individual would stay loyal? Why would such a person stay loyal to the Imperium, despite all the distrust and dislike of that kind of warfare?

Again, until it's defined as what the Night Lord influence is (trained by Night Lords or merely having their geneseed), we don't really know how these guys would behave.

Still, I would say that, personally, the idea of "Horus Heresy marines who got spat out of the warp ten thousand years late and they're loyal and are allowed to fight for the Imperium BECAUSE THEY'RE GOOD GUYS BUT COOL" is a little overdone to me. There's so much out there to play around with in just Loyalist Space Marines.

As for cliche? It has become rather common to see renegade chapters popping up but perhaps it is a sign of more people who play Space Marines disliking the fluff of the Imperium but rather than buy a new codex they simply stamp their army with renegades.

But how does the fluff of the Imperium relate to this? You can easily behave like NIght Lords without being descended from Kurze, so why does the fluff of the Imperium matter? There's nothing restricting it.

I don't understand why people think "I need to make my guys related to people that lived thousands of years ago if I want this certain theme or method of warfare", when the fluff of the Imperium supports that they can be like that, and related to any of the "default" Primarchs.
I mean, what about the Imperial fluff is so bad that you can like Space Marines, but the only way it makes sense is being renegade? The only real ones I can think of are fraternising with the enemy (xenos, chaos, heretics) or using forbidden tech/magics, and OP has no real influence of that.

I just think that, to me, if you CAN do it without making leaps of plausibility, then you should do that. As such, Blood Angels make the most sense for this.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Yes it is a nuture over nature here but I was assuming that this chapter was founded by loyalist elements of the Night Lords rather than simply made rom their geneseed. If the founding had been made using the NL geneseed but under the guidence of say an Ultramarine Captain, then yes they would likely lack the traits of the NL. However if the founding had been over seen by a loyalist NL then they would have likely past down their teachings of stealth and fear to the chapter, perhaps some of the new members of the chapter would observer their founder falling into torcherous psychopathy during battle as many of the mentally unhinged members of the NL had.

As you say, the more mentally unhinged Night Lords observed the torturous psychopathy. With a case of this, do you think that one such individual would stay loyal? Why would such a person stay loyal to the Imperium, despite all the distrust and dislike of that kind of warfare?

Again, until it's defined as what the Night Lord influence is (trained by Night Lords or merely having their geneseed), we don't really know how these guys would behave.

Still, I would say that, personally, the idea of "Horus Heresy marines who got spat out of the warp ten thousand years late and they're loyal and are allowed to fight for the Imperium BECAUSE THEY'RE GOOD GUYS BUT COOL" is a little overdone to me. There's so much out there to play around with in just Loyalist Space Marines.

As for cliche? It has become rather common to see renegade chapters popping up but perhaps it is a sign of more people who play Space Marines disliking the fluff of the Imperium but rather than buy a new codex they simply stamp their army with renegades.

But how does the fluff of the Imperium relate to this? You can easily behave like NIght Lords without being descended from Kurze, so why does the fluff of the Imperium matter? There's nothing restricting it.

I don't understand why people think "I need to make my guys related to people that lived thousands of years ago if I want this certain theme or method of warfare", when the fluff of the Imperium supports that they can be like that, and related to any of the "default" Primarchs.
I mean, what about the Imperial fluff is so bad that you can like Space Marines, but the only way it makes sense is being renegade? The only real ones I can think of are fraternising with the enemy (xenos, chaos, heretics) or using forbidden tech/magics, and OP has no real influence of that.

I just think that, to me, if you CAN do it without making leaps of plausibility, then you should do that. As such, Blood Angels make the most sense for this.

well could a mixed gene seed be possible?
as 40k therioes said in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33UdKehffN8

Mixed geneseed is *possible*, yes, but it is:
A) Very rare in fluff (especially if it also included a traitor legion's)
and
B) Inefficient. When you have the Chapter's geneseed split amongst the Chapter, it means you have to cater for two (or more) genetic types, so I could imagine that things like blood transfusions, Larraman Cell donations, genetic disorders and diseases, and general paperwork would be so much more complicated. Your Apothecaries would need to not only know one type of geneseed like every other Apothecary, but two instead. For what cause? Why would a Chimeric Geneseed add anything to your Chapter?

I'll admit that perhaps it could be fun to play with a psuedo-racism issue (a la Honsou), or something along those lines, but generally, there's nothing that Chimeric geneseed would bring, other than being a little snowflakey.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Mixed geneseed is *possible*, yes, but it is:
A) Very rare in fluff (especially if it also included a traitor legion's)
and
B) Inefficient. When you have the Chapter's geneseed split amongst the Chapter, it means you have to cater for two (or more) genetic types, so I could imagine that things like blood transfusions, Larraman Cell donations, genetic disorders and diseases, and general paperwork would be so much more complicated. Your Apothecaries would need to not only know one type of geneseed like every other Apothecary, but two instead. For what cause? Why would a Chimeric Geneseed add anything to your Chapter?

I'll admit that perhaps it could be fun to play with a psuedo-racism issue (a la Honsou), or something along those lines, but generally, there's nothing that Chimeric geneseed would bring, other than being a little snowflakey.

Just was wondering would it be a good combination to have a mix between the night lords and the blood angels?

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Mixed geneseed is *possible*, yes, but it is:
A) Very rare in fluff (especially if it also included a traitor legion's)
and
B) Inefficient. When you have the Chapter's geneseed split amongst the Chapter, it means you have to cater for two (or more) genetic types, so I could imagine that things like blood transfusions, Larraman Cell donations, genetic disorders and diseases, and general paperwork would be so much more complicated. Your Apothecaries would need to not only know one type of geneseed like every other Apothecary, but two instead. For what cause? Why would a Chimeric Geneseed add anything to your Chapter?

I'll admit that perhaps it could be fun to play with a psuedo-racism issue (a la Honsou), or something along those lines, but generally, there's nothing that Chimeric geneseed would bring, other than being a little snowflakey.

Just was wondering would it be a good combination to have a mix between the night lords and the blood angels?

Again as all I said - possible, but I'd really advise against it. What would being split actually ADD to the Chapter's theme?

Night lords is my vote.

 Aetare wrote:
Night lords is my vote.

Ok then
Night lords 2
Blood angels 1


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Mixed geneseed is *possible*, yes, but it is:
A) Very rare in fluff (especially if it also included a traitor legion's)
and
B) Inefficient. When you have the Chapter's geneseed split amongst the Chapter, it means you have to cater for two (or more) genetic types, so I could imagine that things like blood transfusions, Larraman Cell donations, genetic disorders and diseases, and general paperwork would be so much more complicated. Your Apothecaries would need to not only know one type of geneseed like every other Apothecary, but two instead. For what cause? Why would a Chimeric Geneseed add anything to your Chapter?

I'll admit that perhaps it could be fun to play with a psuedo-racism issue (a la Honsou), or something along those lines, but generally, there's nothing that Chimeric geneseed would bring, other than being a little snowflakey.

Just was wondering would it be a good combination to have a mix between the night lords and the blood angels?

Again as all I said - possible, but I'd really advise against it. What would being split actually ADD to the Chapter's theme?

ok then thanks for the advice

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Mixed geneseed is *possible*, yes, but it is:
A) Very rare in fluff (especially if it also included a traitor legion's)
and
B) Inefficient. When you have the Chapter's geneseed split amongst the Chapter, it means you have to cater for two (or more) genetic types, so I could imagine that things like blood transfusions, Larraman Cell donations, genetic disorders and diseases, and general paperwork would be so much more complicated. Your Apothecaries would need to not only know one type of geneseed like every other Apothecary, but two instead. For what cause? Why would a Chimeric Geneseed add anything to your Chapter?

I'll admit that perhaps it could be fun to play with a psuedo-racism issue (a la Honsou), or something along those lines, but generally, there's nothing that Chimeric geneseed would bring, other than being a little snowflakey.

Just was wondering would it be a good combination to have a mix between the night lords and the blood angels?

Again as all I said - possible, but I'd really advise against it. What would being split actually ADD to the Chapter's theme?

I have an idea that in an attempt to redeem themselves for the actions of their primogenitors before they went renegade the ordo minoris they were destined to serve offered them the chance to redeem themselves by becoming their chamber militant part the agreement was having their geneseed mixed with blood angel in attempt to make the perfect terror weapon
feel free to criticize

I'm gonna chip in my vote for night lords, mainly because They're my Chaos legion of choice, but because I'd also like to add my 2 Cents to the chapter behaviours discussion.

There are Two main lines to go down for the "Night Lords" identity:
The Primarch.
The Marines themselves and their previous lives.

The Primarch

Konrad Curze actively encouraged his legion to present a very fearful and, in some cases, Macabre appearance in order to inspire fear. this has only swollen with the night lords aligned to chaos as they have become unbound from any authority but their own.
Your legion may still remember these teachings but they may be regularly investigated by the inquisition or held well at arms length as they still hold some of these teachings after the millennia but cannot take it to the extreme due to imperial censor.

The Marines themselves

Towards the end of the heresy, the large majority of the legion consisted of criminals and other despicable characters that once again plagued Nostramo after it returned to crime. Have the marines in the chapter you wrote being privy to the darker nature of humanity or are they from the same general grimdark of the universe? this can greatly affect the marines own inhibitions about what the can, will and would do given a situation.

Tristanleo wrote:
I'm gonna chip in my vote for night lords, mainly because They're my Chaos legion of choice, but because I'd also like to add my 2 Cents to the chapter behaviours discussion.

There are Two main lines to go down for the "Night Lords" identity:
The Primarch.
The Marines themselves and their previous lives.

The Primarch

Konrad Curze actively encouraged his legion to present a very fearful and, in some cases, Macabre appearance in order to inspire fear. this has only swollen with the night lords aligned to chaos as they have become unbound from any authority but their own.
Your legion may still remember these teachings but they may be regularly investigated by the inquisition or held well at arms length as they still hold some of these teachings after the millennia but cannot take it to the extreme due to imperial censor.

The Marines themselves

Towards the end of the heresy, the large majority of the legion consisted of criminals and other despicable characters that once again plagued Nostramo after it returned to crime. Have the marines in the chapter you wrote being privy to the darker nature of humanity or are they from the same general grimdark of the universe? this can greatly affect the marines own inhibitions about what the can, will and would do given a situation.

for the marines of the silent claws it depends on whether the marine was from Secretis or Aquali the ones from secretis were pure blooded human ferals which worshiped the emperor then there's the aqualyans from aquali as their cultures are very different while both death worlds are similar to each other secretis is not a night world

Without being rapists and murderers at a young age, without a Primarch to encourage these tendencies and then hate them for the reasons they do what they do, I don't think Night Lords geneseed would have been all bad.
Therefore I like your idea. It can be cliched as someone said above, but if you don't make them too special snow flake then it is no more cliched than any other chapter.

 Rippy wrote:
Without being rapists and murderers at a young age, without a Primarch to encourage these tendencies and then hate them for the reasons they do what they do, I don't think Night Lords geneseed would have been all bad.
Therefore I like your idea. It can be cliched as someone said above, but if you don't make them too special snow flake then it is no more cliched than any other chapter.

Well, considering like half of all homebrew chapters seem to be secretly from traitor geneseed, I'd say it is incredibly cliched. Especially when there is no special need for it. Nothing you can do with Night Lords geneseed you can't do with Raven Guard or Blood Angel geneseed. Now there is nothing inherently bad about cliches, but it does get a bit tiresome.
Anyways, it seems the lords of Mars might want to keep a tighter eye on their geneseed vaults, with all these traitors running about

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Without being rapists and murderers at a young age, without a Primarch to encourage these tendencies and then hate them for the reasons they do what they do, I don't think Night Lords geneseed would have been all bad.
Therefore I like your idea. It can be cliched as someone said above, but if you don't make them too special snow flake then it is no more cliched than any other chapter.

Well, considering like half of all homebrew chapters seem to be secretly from traitor geneseed, I'd say it is incredibly cliched. Especially when there is no special need for it. Nothing you can do with Night Lords geneseed you can't do with Raven Guard or Blood Angel geneseed. Now there is nothing inherently bad about cliches, but it does get a bit tiresome.
Anyways, it seems the lords of Mars might want to keep a tighter eye on their geneseed vaults, with all these traitors running about

yeah the only thing more cliche then "descended from traitor geneseed" is "renegeades but still really loyal and good guys!"

BrianDavion wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Without being rapists and murderers at a young age, without a Primarch to encourage these tendencies and then hate them for the reasons they do what they do, I don't think Night Lords geneseed would have been all bad.
Therefore I like your idea. It can be cliched as someone said above, but if you don't make them too special snow flake then it is no more cliched than any other chapter.

Well, considering like half of all homebrew chapters seem to be secretly from traitor geneseed, I'd say it is incredibly cliched. Especially when there is no special need for it. Nothing you can do with Night Lords geneseed you can't do with Raven Guard or Blood Angel geneseed. Now there is nothing inherently bad about cliches, but it does get a bit tiresome.
Anyways, it seems the lords of Mars might want to keep a tighter eye on their geneseed vaults, with all these traitors running about

yeah the only thing more cliche then "descended from traitor geneseed" is "renegeades but still really loyal and good guys!"

Or "transported through the Warp from the Heresy era". But the worst one is gotta be the one that combines all three cliches: the loyal renegade chapter descended from a traitor legion force transported 10,000 years into the future. I love it when that one pops up.

 Rippy wrote:
Without being rapists and murderers at a young age, without a Primarch to encourage these tendencies and then hate them for the reasons they do what they do, I don't think Night Lords geneseed would have been all bad.
Therefore I like your idea. It can be cliched as someone said above, but if you don't make them too special snow flake then it is no more cliched than any other chapter.

I see your point very well then
Also judging by your criticism that's a vote for night lords right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Without being rapists and murderers at a young age, without a Primarch to encourage these tendencies and then hate them for the reasons they do what they do, I don't think Night Lords geneseed would have been all bad.
Therefore I like your idea. It can be cliched as someone said above, but if you don't make them too special snow flake then it is no more cliched than any other chapter.

Well, considering like half of all homebrew chapters seem to be secretly from traitor geneseed, I'd say it is incredibly cliched. Especially when there is no special need for it. Nothing you can do with Night Lords geneseed you can't do with Raven Guard or Blood Angel geneseed. Now there is nothing inherently bad about cliches, but it does get a bit tiresome.
Anyways, it seems the lords of Mars might want to keep a tighter eye on their geneseed vaults, with all these traitors running about

yeah the only thing more cliche then "descended from traitor geneseed" is "renegeades but still really loyal and good guys!"

judging by your criticism that's a vote for blood angels


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Without being rapists and murderers at a young age, without a Primarch to encourage these tendencies and then hate them for the reasons they do what they do, I don't think Night Lords geneseed would have been all bad.
Therefore I like your idea. It can be cliched as someone said above, but if you don't make them too special snow flake then it is no more cliched than any other chapter.

Well, considering like half of all homebrew chapters seem to be secretly from traitor geneseed, I'd say it is incredibly cliched. Especially when there is no special need for it. Nothing you can do with Night Lords geneseed you can't do with Raven Guard or Blood Angel geneseed. Now there is nothing inherently bad about cliches, but it does get a bit tiresome.
Anyways, it seems the lords of Mars might want to keep a tighter eye on their geneseed vaults, with all these traitors running about

yeah the only thing more cliche then "descended from traitor geneseed" is "renegeades but still really loyal and good guys!"

Or "transported through the Warp from the Heresy era". But the worst one is gotta be the one that combines all three cliches: the loyal renegade chapter descended from a traitor legion force transported 10,000 years into the future. I love it when that one pops up.

judging by your criticism that's a vote for blood angels
that means we're at
1. night lords 4
2.blood angels 3
just a heads up
the first out of these two to get to ten will be the legion they desend from and
i've scrapped the idea of having them with a mixed gene seed

I've been doing edits to the fandex
I've made two drafts one with them as a blood angel successors and the other as night lords successors
[edit]: i've updated the files

I've been trying to make lore about units for the codex
it may take some time

I've come up with a few units many are unique but I'm having trouble coming up with an idea for a replacement unit for terminators as they lost their terminator armour during the battle for and they don't have the following units tactical squads centurion squads both types of which stormraven stormtalon hunter tank stalker tank both types of terminator squads
I'm wondering if i could utilise xenos units as the silent claws do use xenos technology tau and eldar in particular
so what advice could you give me when it comes to this?

I'd suggest third party manafacturers using "counts as"

so rather then using terminators you'd use something else but use terminator rules. https://puppetswar.eu/ try looking there. they have some neat looking alterntives.

https://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=478 Maybe use that as a terminator stand in? it looks kinda crude compared to standard terminator armor, so might make an excellent "make shift stand in"

I was hoping on making some unique rules and units but thank you for your help

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I was hoping on making some unique rules and units but thank you for your help

no problem, unique rules and units could be fun, but it might limit your abilities to play (obviously though you know your local gaming situation better then anyone else if your local opponents are cool with it, go for it! ) hence why I suggest considering counts as.

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I was hoping on making some unique rules and units but thank you for your help

If your going to make some unique rules for your chapter, I would wait until Codex SM/CSM comes out to see what direction GW is taking the chapter tactics stuff this edition.

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I was hoping on making some unique rules and units but thank you for your help

If your going to make some unique rules for your chapter, I would wait until Codex SM/CSM comes out to see what direction GW is taking the chapter tactics stuff this edition.

You have a point there that's actual what I've been doing but i'm trying to come up new ideas for units

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I was hoping on making some unique rules and units but thank you for your help

If your going to make some unique rules for your chapter, I would wait until Codex SM/CSM comes out to see what direction GW is taking the chapter tactics stuff this edition.

You have a point there that's actual what I've been doing but i'm trying to come up new ideas for units

What've you got so far?

Well i've made a unit which is a mixture of a librarian a chaplain and an apothecary

naoki the curseblood wrote:
Well i've made a unit which is a mixture of a librarian a chaplain and an apothecary

Care to explain?

In time once I've finishd this draft for night lord successors version of it
But I'm having second thoughts on this empire idea because i can't decide on what it should be like
Ideas i did have was the head of this empire is a council
Additionally the empire was meant to have freedom of speech and the state religon is mainly the faith of narsi but atheism is not condemned chaos is however

freedom of speach is an intreasting one, you can do a lot with that because it can be a bit of a huge flaw. the society would be partiuclarly vunerable to Chaos Cults, Genestealer Cults, the Tau (assuming you're near the eastren Fringe) because by time these guys passed from simply exercising their freedom, to outright sedition it'd proably be too late.

BTW random thought, reading what you're written, Narsi sounds an aweful lot like a "prettified version of Tzeetch" if you wanna toss a standard 40k "Grim dark twist!" in it. play that up, lay in some subtle hints that maybe just MAYBE this is some elaborate long con from Tzeetch, doesn't have to do anything specific, stuff like using the number 9, having psykers be prominant etc. I'm not saying "say Narsi is Tzeetch". DON'T say that (saying it's boring) just throw in eneugh signs that people who read the text smile and go "oooh, this is all as planned"

BrianDavion wrote:
freedom of speach is an intreasting one, you can do a lot with that because it can be a bit of a huge flaw. the society would be partiuclarly vunerable to Chaos Cults, Genestealer Cults, the Tau (assuming you're near the eastren Fringe) because by time these guys passed from simply exercising their freedom, to outright sedition it'd proably be too late.

BTW random thought, reading what you're written, Narsi sounds an aweful lot like a "prettified version of Tzeetch" if you wanna toss a standard 40k "Grim dark twist!" in it. play that up, lay in some subtle hints that maybe just MAYBE this is some elaborate long con from Tzeetch, doesn't have to do anything specific, stuff like using the number 9, having psykers be prominant etc. I'm not saying "say Narsi is Tzeetch". DON'T say that (saying it's boring) just throw in eneugh signs that people who read the text smile and go "oooh, this is all as planned"

Perhaps narsi could be a fragment of tzeetch which rebelled against him it could explain it
like this theory video theorizes khaine is linked to khorne
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz-2lmrqNiY
also good point with the freedom of speech thing
additionally

Taffy17 wrote:
The god sounds like Cegorac the eldar laughing god,

Could the Harlequins be at the centre of all of this? have they seen colourful visions while battling eldar?

Also the whole schizophrenic ultra violent thing was more of a nurture over nature thing. The gene seed gave them some kind of thermal vision and a piercing scream. The torture thing comes from an exaggerated obsession with vigilante justice and order through fear which descended into killing and torturing people for kicks.

he could have a point there too
also i've gotten rid the idea of the outcasts being narsi's daemons

Just a heads up i may need help making character ive made one so far an outcast known as naoki

naoki the curseblood wrote:
Just a heads up i may need help making character ive made one so far an outcast known as naoki

Cool.

Also I can't find the units you've created in your latest codex attachment, care to post your newest version?

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
Just a heads up i may need help making character ive made one so far an outcast known as naoki

Cool.

Also I can't find the units you've created in your latest codex attachment, care to post your newest version?

I intend to
in fact here it is now
please give me some advice if they need improvements

[EDIT] I've edited naoki's lore so download this link instead

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
Just a heads up i may need help making character ive made one so far an outcast known as naoki

Cool.

Also I can't find the units you've created in your latest codex attachment, care to post your newest version?

I intend to
in fact here it is now
please give me some advice if they need improvements

Not bad, not bad at all. Love the indepth view of the chapter.

Got a few bits of advice though:
The Outcasts seem a bit cheesy, seeing as though the chapter is already viewed a bit warily by other Space Marine chapters, I don't think you need another layer thrown in there with the Outcasts. You could quite easily just change their fluff a bit so they mirror the Headhunters of the Alpha Legion: skilled, elite, veteran hunters of the chapter.
Whilst I am a fan of a real indepth view of a chapter I don't think you need to rename all of the chapters assets to something to do with the Silent Claws i.e. The Librarian/Chaplain/Apothecary is all right as a unique character kind of deal but I don't think you have to do the same for all of the chapters trainers, techmarines, etc. Pick a couple of things that are unique in your chapter and keep the rest the same otherwise your fluff gets oversaturated.

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
Just a heads up i may need help making character ive made one so far an outcast known as naoki

Cool.

Also I can't find the units you've created in your latest codex attachment, care to post your newest version?

I intend to
in fact here it is now
please give me some advice if they need improvements

Not bad, not bad at all. Love the indepth view of the chapter.

Got a few bits of advice though:
The Outcasts seem a bit cheesy, seeing as though the chapter is already viewed a bit warily by other Space Marine chapters, I don't think you need another layer thrown in there with the Outcasts. You could quite easily just change their fluff a bit so they mirror the Headhunters of the Alpha Legion: skilled, elite, veteran hunters of the chapter.
Whilst I am a fan of a real indepth view of a chapter I don't think you need to rename all of the chapters assets to something to do with the Silent Claws i.e. The Librarian/Chaplain/Apothecary is all right as a unique character kind of deal but I don't think you have to do the same for all of the chapters trainers, techmarines, etc. Pick a couple of things that are unique in your chapter and keep the rest the same otherwise your fluff gets oversaturated.

what do you mean by cheesy about the outcasts? please explain further
additionally i was planning of making the arrow claws with some mechanized heavy armour which allows them to move and shoot but move very slowly sort of like a mixture of a terminator and a devastator
does this mean i have to edit naoki's lore as well?

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
Just a heads up i may need help making character ive made one so far an outcast known as naoki

Cool.

Also I can't find the units you've created in your latest codex attachment, care to post your newest version?

I intend to
in fact here it is now
please give me some advice if they need improvements

Not bad, not bad at all. Love the indepth view of the chapter.

Got a few bits of advice though:
The Outcasts seem a bit cheesy, seeing as though the chapter is already viewed a bit warily by other Space Marine chapters, I don't think you need another layer thrown in there with the Outcasts. You could quite easily just change their fluff a bit so they mirror the Headhunters of the Alpha Legion: skilled, elite, veteran hunters of the chapter.
Whilst I am a fan of a real indepth view of a chapter I don't think you need to rename all of the chapters assets to something to do with the Silent Claws i.e. The Librarian/Chaplain/Apothecary is all right as a unique character kind of deal but I don't think you have to do the same for all of the chapters trainers, techmarines, etc. Pick a couple of things that are unique in your chapter and keep the rest the same otherwise your fluff gets oversaturated.

what do you mean by cheesy about the outcasts? please explain further
additionally i was planning of making the arrow claws with some mechanized heavy armour which allows them to move and shoot but move very slowly sort of like a mixture of a terminator and a devastator
does this mean i have to edit naoki's lore as well?

Another thing I think needs to be asked, what are you plans for this chapter? are they a fan fiction thing? (if so knock yourself out with the wild and crazy.) Something for the Death Watch RPG (in which case to be blunt scrap the whole thing. the inqusition would purge any that showed up) or are they supposed to be your 40k army? if they're your 40k army, step back and CAREFULLY consider everything you do unit with with a "how will I model this?" and "how will I PLAY" this?" it's all well and good to wanna have an army who rides into battle on the back of giant humming birds, but unless you an model that, it's proably just gonna frustrate you

BrianDavion wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
Just a heads up i may need help making character ive made one so far an outcast known as naoki

Cool.

Also I can't find the units you've created in your latest codex attachment, care to post your newest version?

I intend to
in fact here it is now
please give me some advice if they need improvements

Not bad, not bad at all. Love the indepth view of the chapter.

Got a few bits of advice though:
The Outcasts seem a bit cheesy, seeing as though the chapter is already viewed a bit warily by other Space Marine chapters, I don't think you need another layer thrown in there with the Outcasts. You could quite easily just change their fluff a bit so they mirror the Headhunters of the Alpha Legion: skilled, elite, veteran hunters of the chapter.
Whilst I am a fan of a real indepth view of a chapter I don't think you need to rename all of the chapters assets to something to do with the Silent Claws i.e. The Librarian/Chaplain/Apothecary is all right as a unique character kind of deal but I don't think you have to do the same for all of the chapters trainers, techmarines, etc. Pick a couple of things that are unique in your chapter and keep the rest the same otherwise your fluff gets oversaturated.

what do you mean by cheesy about the outcasts? please explain further
additionally i was planning of making the arrow claws with some mechanized heavy armour which allows them to move and shoot but move very slowly sort of like a mixture of a terminator and a devastator
does this mean i have to edit naoki's lore as well?

Another thing I think needs to be asked, what are you plans for this chapter? are they a fan fiction thing? (if so knock yourself out with the wild and crazy.) Something for the Death Watch RPG (in which case to be blunt scrap the whole thing. the inqusition would purge any that showed up) or are they supposed to be your 40k army? if they're your 40k army, step back and CAREFULLY consider everything you do unit with with a "how will I model this?" and "how will I PLAY" this?" it's all well and good to wanna have an army who rides into battle on the back of giant humming birds, but unless you an model that, it's proably just gonna frustrate you

Well I've done convertions before in fact I'm in the process of making the army but I'm not going to be using every unit in the fandex but yes this is going to be an army that's why I'm allowing people to criticise it so i can see what mistakes i may be making and how to improve on this work i love everything about this hobby that's why I'm doing this
I've got plans for the rules and squad sizes and want to make the best army i can, also i want to show people the fun in this hobby its brought me joy for years and i don't plan to stop
I'm not going to bother with the deathwatch rpg (because i don't have it and I'm not going to bother with it due to how much it could cost) i respect your points and i have thought about this I'm not afraid of making mistakes because i am willing to learn from them I've been inspired by many other homebrews and study them to come up with ideas i thank you for the help you and others have given me

then yeah, that's my advice, before designing any new unit etc. ask "how will I make this?" particularly as the process of figuring that out might give you other bits of inspiration

BrianDavion wrote:
then yeah, that's my advice, before designing any new unit etc. ask "how will I make this?" particularly as the process of figuring that out might give you other bits of inspiration

If my plan works the only catch will be making an army of the silent claws may take some time and work but hopefully it should be worth it

naoki the curseblood wrote:
what do you mean by cheesy about the outcasts? please explain further

Just seems a bit overdone to me: they are shunned by the chapter because of a dark past and misterious rumours. Everyone in 40k has some kind of secret, a chapter as shady as the one you propose I don't think would be that bothered by a questionable past since there's is quite questionable.

additionally i was planning of making the arrow claws with some mechanized heavy armour which allows them to move and shoot but move very slowly sort of like a mixture of a terminator and a devastator
does this mean i have to edit naoki's lore as well?

So centurions?

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
what do you mean by cheesy about the outcasts? please explain further

Just seems a bit overdone to me: they are shunned by the chapter because of a dark past and misterious rumours. Everyone in 40k has some kind of secret, a chapter as shady as the one you propose I don't think would be that bothered by a questionable past since there's is quite questionable.

additionally i was planning of making the arrow claws with some mechanized heavy armour which allows them to move and shoot but move very slowly sort of like a mixture of a terminator and a devastator
does this mean i have to edit naoki's lore as well?

So centurions?

Please tell me how i can improve the outcasts and by improving their lore does that include naoki?
As for the arrow claws not exactly think of them like xv88 battle suits with modified weapons which either fire or charge faster at the price of said mobility for example if wielding a heavy bolter when deployed the fire rate for the weapon triples at the price of overheating

As I said before, the Outkasts could quite easily be reformed into just a very skilled group of hunters like the Space Wolves and Alpha Legion have. As for Naoki, I'd change it around a bit: you could still have him as a lone hunter but perhaps for a different reason? Maybe keep it very similar and make it so that, during battle one time, he was engulfed by the changing fires of Tzeentch but survived, now he is avoided by the rest of the chapter due to Tzeentchian whispers coming from his still warm armour, i.e. a Tzeentch daemon from the fires of Tzeentch possessed Noaki's armour, this could also cause "unlucky" things to happen to anyone who goes into combat with him. This could be taken further with the whispers of Tzeentch slowly driving Naoki into madness, maybe recalling a shade of the Night Crawler in Naoki.

The battlesuit idea seems a bit advanced tech for the Imperium: remember, this is the organisation that murders anyone for attempting to come up with new designs and ideas. Maybe make it a form of Cataphractii terminators with minor jet boosters.

 mrhappyface wrote:
As I said before, the Outkasts could quite easily be reformed into just a very skilled group of hunters like the Space Wolves and Alpha Legion have. As for Naoki, I'd change it around a bit: you could still have him as a lone hunter but perhaps for a different reason? Maybe keep it very similar and make it so that, during battle one time, he was engulfed by the changing fires of Tzeentch but survived, now he is avoided by the rest of the chapter due to Tzeentchian whispers coming from his still warm armour, i.e. a Tzeentch daemon from the fires of Tzeentch possessed Noaki's armour, this could also cause "unlucky" things to happen to anyone who goes into combat with him. This could be taken further with the whispers of Tzeentch slowly driving Naoki into madness, maybe recalling a shade of the Night Crawler in Naoki.

The battlesuit idea seems a bit advanced tech for the Imperium: remember, this is the organisation that murders anyone for attempting to come up with new designs and ideas. Maybe make it a form of Cataphractii terminators with minor jet boosters.

well the rumors about his tribe being cursed are true meaning any friend or ally too close to him is bound to have something horrific happen to them also i updated his lore in the first comment on this top this page
Also what is the night crawler do you mean the night haunter?

naoki the curseblood wrote:
well the rumors about his tribe being cursed are true meaning any friend or ally too close to him is bound to have something horrific happen to them also i updated his lore in the first comment on this top this page
Also what is the night crawler do you mean the night haunter?

Yes, the Night Haunter. That's twice this morning I've said some nonsensicle BS instead of the actual name. Maybe I should go back to bed.

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
well the rumors about his tribe being cursed are true meaning any friend or ally too close to him is bound to have something horrific happen to them also i updated his lore in the first comment on this top this page
Also what is the night crawler do you mean the night haunter?

Yes, the Night Haunter. That's twice this morning I've said some nonsensicle BS instead of the actual name. Maybe I should go back to bed.

Perhaps i could add something like that to his lore kind of reminds me of these two 40k theories videos
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jl9SR_dd3xw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7NKTzF11z3c

Aye, I always find that the mental health of the characters in 40k is so fascinating.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Aye, I always find that the mental health of the characters in 40k is so fascinating.

i agree with you there i'll be editing the fandex now

Here's the new draft of the fandex
Feel free to criticise

Just a heads up I'll be doing some edits

Here's the new draft of the fandex
Think anyone could help me make new chracters please?

I've done a quick edit just now

Could anyone please give me advice on what eldar should be the chapters allies?
[Edit]
i've added a link to the updated version of the fandex

The pointy eared devils would never ally with the Mon'kays unless it was a life or death situation, and even then they're right pricks about it. Allying with the Eldar is not very common due to the Eldar's hatred of the Imperium and the fact that they look down upon all of Humanity and when they do want help from the Imperium usually they will trick the Imperium into helping them. I think, rather than allies, you would have your chapter and the Eldar mutually agree that they shouldn't kill each other while there are bigger monsters in the night, but that won't stop a marine from accidently firing a volly of bolts into an Eldar Farseer and it won't stop the Farseer from accidently stabbing a marine in the neck.

 mrhappyface wrote:
The pointy eared devils would never ally with the Mon'kays unless it was a life or death situation, and even then they're right pricks about it. Allying with the Eldar is not very common due to the Eldar's hatred of the Imperium and the fact that they look down upon all of Humanity and when they do want help from the Imperium usually they will trick the Imperium into helping them. I think, rather than allies, you would have your chapter and the Eldar mutually agree that they shouldn't kill each other while there are bigger monsters in the night, but that won't stop a marine from accidently firing a volly of bolts into an Eldar Farseer and it won't stop the Farseer from accidently stabbing a marine in the neck.

I see you have good points but what about the harlequins?

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I see you have good points but what about the harlequins?

They protect the Black Library and rarely leave the Webway.

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I see you have good points but what about the harlequins?

They protect the Black Library and rarely leave the Webway.

i see if they were allies with them this could explain their access to the webway as my idea is the silent claws utilize said webway

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I see you have good points but what about the harlequins?

They protect the Black Library and rarely leave the Webway.

i see if they were allies with them this could explain their access to the webway as my idea is the silent claws utilize said webway

Perhaps your Wise Menders could be one of the few Humans allowed access to the Black Library by the Black Council...

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I see you have good points but what about the harlequins?

They protect the Black Library and rarely leave the Webway.

i see if they were allies with them this could explain their access to the webway as my idea is the silent claws utilize said webway

Perhaps your Wise Menders could be one of the few Humans allowed access to the Black Library by the Black Council...

perhaps


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just a heads up i'm editing the fandex as we speak it will contain more lore about the chapters combat doctrine, beliefs and added lore to it's units as well

Could anyone be willing to offer suggestions of ways i can make the Silent Claws lore more darker as in grim dark

naoki the curseblood wrote:
Could anyone be willing to offer suggestions of ways i can make the Silent Claws lore more darker as in grim dark

Give them a dark, terrible secret or some kind of fatal flaw. Alternatively, give them some cruel rituals and traditions. Or a dark, horrifying goal that they work towards. Lots of possibilities.

As I've said before in this thread: give them the psychopathic curiousities of the Night Lords, have them flay their enemies in battle, have them torture their prisoners, have them display the skinned faces of their enemies and wear capes of human meat.

 mrhappyface wrote:
As I've said before in this thread: give them the psychopathic curiousities of the Night Lords, have them flay their enemies in battle, have them torture their prisoners, have them display the skinned faces of their enemies and wear capes of human meat.

would collecting their skulls be grim dark and also i want to show the chapter has a unique struggle for survival additionally i'm having trouble with making the chapter's culture as it is based on both theAqualyan culture and that of those from Secretis also partially that of Scorn

naoki the curseblood wrote:
would collecting their skulls be grim dark and also i want to show the chapter has a unique struggle for survival additionally i'm having trouble with making the chapter's culture as it is based on both theAqualyan culture and that of those from Secretis also partially that of Scorn

Collecting their skulls seems a bit too Khornate to me. Their struggle for survival could be all psychological, much like the Crimson Slaughter: a renegade chapter that is haunted by the ghosts of the innocents they killed, so now they must constantly fight and kill in order to drown out the voices in their heads before they go crazy. When making their culture, try to found some different customs or traditions from each of the cultures they come from and intergrate it in the new one.

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
would collecting their skulls be grim dark and also i want to show the chapter has a unique struggle for survival additionally i'm having trouble with making the chapter's culture as it is based on both theAqualyan culture and that of those from Secretis also partially that of Scorn

Collecting their skulls seems a bit too Khornate to me. Their struggle for survival could be all psychological, much like the Crimson Slaughter: a renegade chapter that is haunted by the ghosts of the innocents they killed, so now they must constantly fight and kill in order to drown out the voices in their heads before they go crazy. When making their culture, try to found some different customs or traditions from each of the cultures they come from and intergrate it in the new one.

from what 40k theories stated gene seed does have a psychological effect on the marine implanted with it that's one of the reasons why the word bearers were religiously fanatical even before they turned traitor

Skulls is small fry. The White Scars collect the skulls of their notable hunts and dip them in molten silver. It's nothing too extreme. The Mortifactors are similarly obsessed, using blood rituals and suchlike.

Actually using flesh is more gruesome, IMO, especially when taken to the Night Lord extent.

As for geneseed, 40k theories is just "theories". There's not really much evidence that geneseed has a massive psychological effect - ie, not all Ultramarine successors are super loyal and vanilla (ie, the aforementioned Mortifcators). There needs to be a clear difference between the upbringing of Legionnaires pre- and post- Primarch to see if there was a difference, and really, as we see from the Night Lords, many Night Lords weren't all psychopathic gore fetishists. Their Chief Librarian (I think) was strongly against it, and he was Terran, but still had their very pure geneseed.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Skulls is small fry. The White Scars collect the skulls of their notable hunts and dip them in molten silver. It's nothing too extreme. The Mortifactors are similarly obsessed, using blood rituals and suchlike.

Actually using flesh is more gruesome, IMO, especially when taken to the Night Lord extent.

As for geneseed, 40k theories is just "theories". There's not really much evidence that geneseed has a massive psychological effect - ie, not all Ultramarine successors are super loyal and vanilla (ie, the aforementioned Mortifcators). There needs to be a clear difference between the upbringing of Legionnaires pre- and post- Primarch to see if there was a difference, and really, as we see from the Night Lords, many Night Lords weren't all psychopathic gore fetishists. Their Chief Librarian (I think) was strongly against it, and he was Terran, but still had their very pure geneseed.

I see very well them my idea for this chapter is it utilities camouflage and other forms of concealment preferring to strike fear into their enemies by their actions instead of their mere look

I'm having trouble coming up with ideas for the cultures for the chapter specifically that of Secretis and Scorn, could anyone please give me suggestions on how i should do this?

 mrhappyface wrote:
The pointy eared devils would never ally with the Mon'kays unless it was a life or death situation, and even then they're right pricks about it. Allying with the Eldar is not very common due to the Eldar's hatred of the Imperium and the fact that they look down upon all of Humanity and when they do want help from the Imperium usually they will trick the Imperium into helping them. I think, rather than allies, you would have your chapter and the Eldar mutually agree that they shouldn't kill each other while there are bigger monsters in the night, but that won't stop a marine from accidently firing a volly of bolts into an Eldar Farseer and it won't stop the Farseer from accidently stabbing a marine in the neck.

This. You're quite literally dealing with aliens that can see the future (albeit somewhat fuzzily). Aliens that don't care about anything other than their own survival. Any 'alliance' you think you have with them is a front for a deeper agenda that you haven't a hope of finding out, because it's part of a scheme that you can only really see if you too can see how adjusting variables in the present will ripple out into potential causalities in the future.

A lot of people (GW writers as well) seem to forget that the Eldar are enemies. The IoM is beyond xenophobic for a very good reason. Literally everything in the universe is out to kill them. Even (or especially) when it doesn't seem like they want to on the surface. Also, people seem to forget that the Imperium have destroyed just as many craftworlds as Chaos. If the Imperium think they're on the same side as the Eldar in anything they're sorely mistaken.

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I'm having trouble coming up with ideas for the cultures for the chapter specifically that of Secretis and Scorn, could anyone please give me suggestions on how i should do this?

Right, my favourite was of doing this is to make some decisions about what the worlds themselves are like, and then extrapolating from their what their culture will be. Rather than just picking something out of the blue you think seems cool, it actually grounds it in the plausibility of their situation influencing their culture.

So, what are the worlds like? You've described what the abhumans themselves are like, but how would their world have shaped what culture they have?

It's a feral death world, but what makes it deadly?

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
The pointy eared devils would never ally with the Mon'kays unless it was a life or death situation, and even then they're right pricks about it. Allying with the Eldar is not very common due to the Eldar's hatred of the Imperium and the fact that they look down upon all of Humanity and when they do want help from the Imperium usually they will trick the Imperium into helping them. I think, rather than allies, you would have your chapter and the Eldar mutually agree that they shouldn't kill each other while there are bigger monsters in the night, but that won't stop a marine from accidently firing a volly of bolts into an Eldar Farseer and it won't stop the Farseer from accidently stabbing a marine in the neck.

This. You're quite literally dealing with aliens that can see the future (albeit somewhat fuzzily). Aliens that don't care about anything other than their own survival. Any 'alliance' you think you have with them is a front for a deeper agenda that you haven't a hope of finding out, because it's part of a scheme that you can only really see if you too can see how adjusting variables in the present will ripple out into potential causalities in the future.

A lot of people (GW writers as well) seem to forget that the Eldar are enemies. The IoM is beyond xenophobic for a very good reason. Literally everything in the universe is out to kill them. Even (or especially) when it doesn't seem like they want to on the surface. Also, people seem to forget that the Imperium have destroyed just as many craftworlds as Chaos. If the Imperium think they're on the same side as the Eldar in anything they're sorely mistaken.

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I'm having trouble coming up with ideas for the cultures for the chapter specifically that of Secretis and Scorn, could anyone please give me suggestions on how i should do this?

Right, my favourite was of doing this is to make some decisions about what the worlds themselves are like, and then extrapolating from their what their culture will be. Rather than just picking something out of the blue you think seems cool, it actually grounds it in the plausibility of their situation influencing their culture.

So, what are the worlds like? You've described what the abhumans themselves are like, but how would their world have shaped what culture they have?

It's a feral death world, but what makes it deadly?

The viscious and bloodthirsty predators which are dangerous to the extreme the harsh conditions of the weather during summer and winter the fact the planet is a night world but i have a question how will the chapter travel since they are on the right side of the Cicatrix Maledictum.

But i'm having trouble coming up with ideas for secretis

Gotcha. Well, in the real world, cultures that live in really deadly and dangerous places tend to be deeply superstitious, especially if they're relatively undeveloped. I'd expect your native abhumans to have some sort of shamanic religion based around appeasing the god or gods 'responsible' for all of the danger on their world. Quite possibly your Chapter could have hitch-hiked onto this religion in order to ensure a supply of willing applicants, posing as prominent figures in it (gods or representatives of them) or even shaping the religion to worship them.

For the details of that religion, you could pick and choose aspects of real-world religions from primitive peoples. If you're thinking of theming your chapter after a particular real-world culture (or pick and choose aspects) then mirroring their beliefs can be a part of that.

Was Secretis their old homeworld? Are you thinking it was a feral world too?

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Gotcha. Well, in the real world, cultures that live in really deadly and dangerous places tend to be deeply superstitious, especially if they're relatively undeveloped. I'd expect your native abhumans to have some sort of shamanic religion based around appeasing the god or gods 'responsible' for all of the danger on their world. Quite possibly your Chapter could have hitch-hiked onto this religion in order to ensure a supply of willing applicants, posing as prominent figures in it (gods or representatives of them) or even shaping the religion to worship them.

For the details of that religion, you could pick and choose aspects of real-world religions from primitive peoples. If you're thinking of theming your chapter after a particular real-world culture (or pick and choose aspects) then mirroring their beliefs can be a part of that.

Was Secretis their old homeworld? Are you thinking it was a feral world too?

Well the aqualyans worship a female deity called narsi my idea is hunting and survival are not just necessary but they are part of the aqualyan culture itself
for secretis i was planning it was a medieval level of technology unlike aqualyans which were at stone age level of technology

Yeah I was thinking it would be a good idea to have their homeworld as slightly more advanced than their current world. Helps frame their fall from grace.

I'd expect Narsi to be a pretty malevolent deity. You don't tend to get a world full of monsters without a religion that's full of monsters too. Most societies that live in dangerous environs (Inuit, Mesoamerican etc.) tend to have deities that need to be appeased, rather than ones that are on your side.

It's a bit 'Planet of Hats', but for Secretis you could pick a medieval society you like and just base it on that. Bear in mind that there's a hell of a lot more to medieval society than just North-West Europe...

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Yeah I was thinking it would be a good idea to have their homeworld as slightly more advanced than their current world. Helps frame their fall from grace.

I'd expect Narsi to be a pretty malevolent deity. You don't tend to get a world full of monsters without a religion that's full of monsters too. Most societies that live in dangerous environs (Inuit, Mesoamerican etc.) tend to have deities that need to be appeased, rather than ones that are on your side.

It's a bit 'Planet of Hats', but for Secretis you could pick a medieval society you like and just base it on that. Bear in mind that there's a hell of a lot more to medieval society than just North-West Europe...

true there for scorn it is meant to be a hive world where crime is common which the chapter uses such criminals are used to grow gene seed organs for the chapter and narsi while she seeks to defend humanity she is still a fragment of tzeentch meaning she is still basically his property i was inspired by this 40k theory video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz-2lmrqNiY&t=24s
scorn is also the homeworld of both the 79th scorned bloods storm trooper regiment and the true blood knight house

Hmmm interesting. There's a great plot point there where your Chapter (and the world) is basically being led on by a Tzeentchian daemon posing as a god.

You don't really get 'good' Chaos stuff by our reckoning. Nor do you really get 'bad' Chaos stuff. It's more akin to a force of nature, neither good nor evil. However, it's important to note that 'forces of nature' are more often than not very destructive from the perspective of people.

That's how I view Chaos anyway. You can either choose to rail against it like the Imperium, or go with the flow like Chaos worlds. Which of them is the better situation to be in is debatable.

So, does your Chapter know about the Tzeentchian connection? Do they care? Are they trying to work their way out from the middle of one of Tzeentch's plots, or are they willingly going with it because they think that humanity would be better served with a different master than the Emperor?

Also, I'm severely doubtful that the Eldar would have anything to do with them. Barring the fact that the Eldar and the humanity are enemies (which everyone seems to forget), the fact that there's anything even vaguely chaotic about them would mean that the most you'd ever get out of the Eldar is manipulation.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Hmmm interesting. There's a great plot point there where your Chapter (and the world) is basically being led on by a Tzeentchian daemon posing as a god.

You don't really get 'good' Chaos stuff by our reckoning. Nor do you really get 'bad' Chaos stuff. It's more akin to a force of nature, neither good nor evil. However, it's important to note that 'forces of nature' are more often than not very destructive from the perspective of people.

That's how I view Chaos anyway. You can either choose to rail against it like the Imperium, or go with the flow like Chaos worlds. Which of them is the better situation to be in is debatable.

So, does your Chapter know about the Tzeentchian connection? Do they care? Are they trying to work their way out from the middle of one of Tzeentch's plots, or are they willingly going with it because they think that humanity would be better served with a different master than the Emperor?

Also, I'm severely doubtful that the Eldar would have anything to do with them. Barring the fact that the Eldar and the humanity are enemies (which everyone seems to forget), the fact that there's anything even vaguely chaotic about them would mean that the most you'd ever get out of the Eldar is manipulation.

i see well with narsi she has learned the secrets of the night and secrecy she's responsible for the creation of the aqualyan race itself but they are bonded to her meaning their unlikely to betray her she also led the silent claws into her servace by manipulating fate but not as well as tzeentch
but i have two questions first does this include the harlequins? and second if they cannot access the webway then how will they travel?

I'd say specifically not including Harlequins. They're pretty much diametrically opposed to Chaos in any form.

They might be attempting to out-manipulate Narsi mind you, with your Chapter as the pawns in their games. That's a possibility. I don't think they'd willingly allow anything even lightly touched by Chaos into the webway. Hell, the use of the webway for Guilliman is a rare exception which personally I thought was bloody stupid from a realism perspective, and smacked of 'Eldar taxi service' which is just uninspired.

Travel is still possible in the Dark Imperium. It's just risky. Basically, we're back to what warp travel was like before the Astronomican. You have to pick your way through the warp in short jumps, ducking back into realspace every now and again to reorient yourself without the guiding beacon of the Astronomican. I'd also expect more issues with warp travel in general given the tumultuous warp storms erupting across the galaxy.

It's unrealistic to have your Chapter travel the length and bredth of the galaxy, and having Guilliman do it set a bad example for what people expect.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
I'd say specifically not including Harlequins. They're pretty much diametrically opposed to Chaos in any form.

They might be attempting to out-manipulate Narsi mind you, with your Chapter as the pawns in their games. That's a possibility. I don't think they'd willingly allow anything even lightly touched by Chaos into the webway. Hell, the use of the webway for Guilliman is a rare exception which personally I thought was bloody stupid from a realism perspective, and smacked of 'Eldar taxi service' which is just uninspired.

Travel is still possible in the Dark Imperium. It's just risky. Basically, we're back to what warp travel was like before the Astronomican. You have to pick your way through the warp in short jumps, ducking back into realspace every now and again to reorient yourself without the guiding beacon of the Astronomican. I'd also expect more issues with warp travel in general given the tumultuous warp storms erupting across the galaxy.

It's unrealistic to have your Chapter travel the length and bredth of the galaxy, and having Guilliman do it set a bad example for what people expect.

i see your points well i'll have to do so more edits such as removing the idea of them using the webway but that make me wonder how the chapter will send it's loners on hunts?

Small warp-capable vessels would work well enough. It's sort of my understanding that for long-distance warp travel you need something like a massive Imperial starship, but there's probably thousands upon thousands of little locally produced puddle-jumpers and freighters that are capable of short warp-hops similar to how the Tau warp-drive works. That sort of thing would probably be commonplace in more built up systems and interstellar empires, but probably non-existent for feral-worlders. Your Chapter could have commandeered some during their escape.

Remember, Marines live for roughly 400 years. Even if it takes months of travel to get somewhere, it's not as if that's excessive to the lifetime of a Marine. Along with that there's always stasis.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Small warp-capable vessels would work well enough. It's sort of my understanding that for long-distance warp travel you need something like a massive Imperial starship, but there's probably thousands upon thousands of little locally produced puddle-jumpers and freighters that are capable of short warp-hops similar to how the Tau warp-drive works. That sort of thing would probably be commonplace in more built up systems and interstellar empires, but probably non-existent for feral-worlders. Your Chapter could have commandeered some during their escape.

Remember, Marines live for roughly 400 years. Even if it takes months of travel to get somewhere, it's not as if that's excessive to the lifetime of a Marine. Along with that there's always stasis.

good points there

I've taken some inspiration from that of the predators as in the ones from avp

my idea for the culture of the aqualyan race is one derived on survival and the thrill of the hunt they lack honor but do have rules when it comes to the hunt

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Small warp-capable vessels would work well enough. It's sort of my understanding that for long-distance warp travel you need something like a massive Imperial starship, but there's probably thousands upon thousands of little locally produced puddle-jumpers and freighters that are capable of short warp-hops similar to how the Tau warp-drive works. That sort of thing would probably be commonplace in more built up systems and interstellar empires, but probably non-existent for feral-worlders. Your Chapter could have commandeered some during their escape.

Remember, Marines live for roughly 400 years. Even if it takes months of travel to get somewhere, it's not as if that's excessive to the lifetime of a Marine. Along with that there's always stasis.

I have a question for you if it's unlikely for the chapter to become allies with any of the eldar then who could they ally with?

Just a heads up i'm going to be doing major edits to the fandex and it may take some time