Greetings,
Let me be the first to say I am not a source of rumors, but perhaps a source of early observations other can later add to. I was reading in the Death Guard discussion the Lady Atia (spelling?) has suggested that there will be a new army for 40k next year and that the skull on the Xenos cover is a hint. Turns out there are other hints involving that same skull. The same cranium appears in the great alien gallery from I believe the 6th edition. It would seem that image really was a foreshadow of things to come. I have attached both images for your viewing pleasure.
I sincerely hope this is the case. I also hope others can share anything more concrete that fourth hand information and two images that may or may not be a coincidence.

Updated with sifted bits from other contributors.

MadCowCrazy wrote:I remember reading a long time ago that when Sisters of Battle are released there would be a campaign box of Sisters vs unknown alien race.
Rumour said something along the line of it being Sisters vs a faction that is currently not in the game.
This rumour was before the GSC were released so I was hoping there would be a Sisters vs GSC box but nope.

If GW released a new faction before making plastic Sisters I would feel very disappointed.

Brother SRM wrote:My only contribution to this is from the GW preview event at NOVA. When someone in the crowd asked the three Warhammer Community folks hosting what they'd like to see next, one joked plastic Sisters, Adam Troke said he'd like to see Inquisitor in 28mm scale, and the third, with a smirk, said a new race for 40k. Adam and the other guy feigned shock when he said that.

 FFJump wrote:
Heya, first time poster, long time lurker. I typically collect screenshots of any and all rumors I deem credible, or at least remember them so I can piece them together later. In terms of xenos, I looked back and found some things Atia, Hastings, and others have said from what I remember, and seems like they fit in this thread of collected rumors about a new race, since there seems to be few actual rumors lol. First, Atia had said a year ago that Exodites may be coming in two years, which would be next year.

Spoiler:

Same thread she said there could be multiple races coming, if you notice, we actually did get a few of these.

Spoiler:

I notice some people speaking about Rak'Gol, well, there has been a little bit of chatter from that too. Note that this one is just me asking someone on War of Sigmar lol.

Spoiler:

2

See above. Also with pure energy being faction they could consume their own soldiers to power up their survivors and play with that as their big mechanic. So perhaps you could wound a unit and add +1 to a damage roll on a completely other one. Teleportation anywhere on the battlefield at the cost of a mortal wound or two ect.

Make some interesting mechanics for them get creative. Visually a pure energy race could look very interesting. Like an army of walking fire and deadly Protoss Archons.

Grey Goo could be an near pure melee faction but once they get there and wound they begin to heal. They can also "destroy" objectives on the map and consume them to heal or power their abilities or even call in summons.

These are just rough ideas off the top of my head. I'm sure an actual game designer could come up with something super cool.

Edit
I would also like to see a Xenos faction bring the Khradron Overlords speargun mechanics into the game. If you hit with their spear gun they can move the enemy unit around a little. So it would be neat to pull models around ect or have tractor beam guns that can push people around for battlefield control.

There 4 niches.

Pure Melee Grey Goo Area Denial/healers
Archons energy mechanics
A "board control" Xenos with lots of abilities to affect opponents positons.
A debuff faction.

 Gamgee wrote:
If GW wants to make them visually distinctive we don't have a race of energy beings aesthetic. Actually I struggle to think of any race/army in any tabletop game I've seen as a race of pure energy.

There is also the concept of "Grey Goo" which is a blob of sentient nanites that's sole purpose is to create more nanites. In the game grey goo they even adapt and create different forms to fight back against the locals.

Those are the two "big" sci-fi tropes I can think of that are not being met by any competitor out there. So all GW would need to do is crank that 40k dial up and take them to crazy levels.

I'll tell you what would disappoint me. if the entire race was chaos xenos. :( Chaos is bad mmkay.

And yet xenos with open Chaos affiliation is something not currently in the game.

Regarding beings of energy, the Inquisitor rulebook had a crystalline weapon. Crystalline beings would be visually distinct from anything we currently have, and since crystals seem to be associated with zappiness, they might have natural or "biologically" engineered energy attacks.

Or something. Personally I think GW would do something with already major, currently unrepresented xenos than going with something entirely new. Mostly these things are unexplored, so there is plenty of room for development and new things.

At the end of the day, I think people in this thread put a lot more consideration into it than GW will (you know, if a new race actually happens). With their miniature driven design philosophy, the only question is whether they get models they think look cool. Whether there is overlap with other stuff or not is not going to matter much if the overall appearance is fitting and distinct.

Oo there you go crystals.

Also for some reason we don't have Predator (from the Predator movie) ripoff Xenos. Why! GW loves ripping off everything fom the 80's and I can't start a cool faction of super power aliens who hunt stuff. I even proposed multiple times how "Dark Kroot" would fit the bill perfectly if beefed up a bit. Just have it represent the part of their species who didn't want to go primtive.

Look up Yajuta folks. Super cool inspiration.

Their niche would be stolen technology and relics. For example their ancient Kroot lord could take one relic form any other faction to represent one of his famous hunts. Troops would have Tau plasma weaponry on their shoulders and all troops have some sort of basic cloak. They would be the xenos equivalent of the Deathwatch. Super small groups but extremely powerful and customisation.

are these rumours coming from the "off the cuff" remark of one designer, or are there actual substantial rumours, form reliable sources (I.E not Bols).

I ask I have have heard nothing about a new race.

Whatever it will be, I bet it was already mentioned in Rogue Trader.

Who did you ask? Also allegedly Lady Atia has said something but no one can confirm if this is true or not and if so where is the link.

If it turns out she did it's all but guaranteed. Hence why i want to see that link folks.

Edit
New GW loves teasing future release way in advance now. I can confirm that at least since we've all seen it. Lot's of factions in AoS were hinted at early on are now out.

After they introduced DeathWatch, Genestealer cults, Knights, and AdMech I'd say that almost any faction could show up. Ones I wouldn't mind seeing:

Kroot
Demiurge
Space Slan
Feral Orks
Vespid. (I'd love to see a crisis suit sized queen)

In the cases of kroot, vespid, and demiurge this could simply be additional Tau allies, at least initially.

An energy based faction I could see, as the models would look cool. A 'Grey goo' faction? Not so much. I don't think it would look cool and I assume it would probably be difficult to copyright the miniatures.

Well, we know it is not an insect race because of the skull...unless said race have both an exoskeletal structure and endoskeletal structure. This would give them an assumed durability on par of that of other armies.

Well, if what they said was "a new race for 40k", that doesn't mean a new army/faction. It could be a new race added to the Tau empire, or some other faction.

Well, it kind of depends on the species. It could have an exoskeleton that has some internal hard growth that further protects the brain that just resembles a skull. Or perhaps the "skull" is just an exoskeleton part that has lost some external fleshy parts.

Malachon wrote:

Considering, that 5/6 points of this list are all just Reskins of humans in terms of how they look, I'd say there is an infinite gap of what GW can do with a new race. Applying one of the Earthly tropes, for example It's humans, but with scales= lizardmen, wouldn't be anything new really. Anything with more, than 4 limbs is already 95% more original. (Tyrannies have 6, that's where 5% went). Then there can be no limbs at all, they can be blobs in different technology, or an army of aliens, that consists of very small numbers(like 3-5 hard to kill dudes, which are not the size of imperial Knights), and most their offensive capabilities are psychic: they cast and recast units so to say, which are somewhat materialized versions of spells so to say.(that's what other miniatures take form of)


[

 Gamgee wrote:
See above. Also with pure energy being faction they could consume their own soldiers to power up their survivors and play with that as their big mechanic. So perhaps you could wound a unit and add +1 to a damage roll on a completely other one. Teleportation anywhere on the battlefield at the cost of a mortal wound or two ect.

Make some interesting mechanics for them get creative. Visually a pure energy race could look very interesting. Like an army of walking fire and deadly Protoss Archons.

Grey Goo could be an near pure melee faction but once they get there and wound they begin to heal. They can also "destroy" objectives on the map and consume them to heal or power their abilities or even call in summons.

These are just rough ideas off the top of my head. I'm sure an actual game designer could come up with something super cool.

Edit
I would also like to see a Xenos faction bring the Khradron Overlords speargun mechanics into the game. If you hit with their spear gun they can move the enemy unit around a little. So it would be neat to pull models around ect or have tractor beam guns that can push people around for battlefield control.

There 4 niches.

Pure Melee Grey Goo Area Denial/healers
Archons energy mechanics
A "board control" Xenos with lots of abilities to affect opponents positons.
A debuff faction.

The first paragraph mostly reminds me of the Soulburst mechanic so I don't see that happening.

Another niche that there is is mobility. Can you reposition your army easily?

A while back when Dreamforge was trying to get its Iron Core game launched the was an interesting idea for a faction based on futuristic soviet troops. Have a couple large tanks (think smaller superheavies) forming slow moving HQ's / mobile rally points while troops deploy from them into quick deploy mini bunkers.

Another idea is an army that totally ignores all normal objectives (and can't claim them) for a large list of their own objectives.

How about a faction that actively gets stronger with each turn? Perhaps there is a chance they literally evolve, or maybe they just take over enemy units.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Another niche that there is is mobility. Can you reposition your army easily?

A while back when Dreamforge was trying to get its Iron Core game launched the was an interesting idea for a faction based on futuristic soviet troops. Have a couple large tanks (think smaller superheavies) forming slow moving HQ's / mobile rally points while troops deploy from them into quick deploy mini bunkers.

Another idea is an army that totally ignores all normal objectives (and can't claim them) for a large list of their own objectives.

How about a faction that actively gets stronger with each turn? Perhaps there is a chance they literally evolve, or maybe they just take over enemy units.

Don't you mean enslave enemy troops?

LoL, I see what you did there. I wasn't even thinking of enslavers.

They'd have the benefit of existing already, although they'd need to be re-imagined with a faux Latin name involving brains and/or tentacles. They could take the spot of Tau as an assembly of (enslaved) alien races since Tau don't do that aspect much anymore. They get a warp affiliation which other established races lack, they could be paired up (at least before the retcon) against Necrons for a campaign (box) - really, I see no downside to making an Enslaver Empire.

I'm a little hazy on this but didnt the enslaver plague come about with the advnet of more psychers? Would make sense with all of the big warp storms for them to be back. That being said I would prefer a xenos alliance with Tarellian dog soldiers, k'nid, ambul etc or maybe just hrud with their time altering weaponry.

I have my fingers crossed that those old rumours of plastic sisters vs unknown xenos were true, I am very keen for some plastic battle sistes. now they have made the sisters of silence I can't see a good reason for it not to come about.

 Eldarain wrote:
A period of consolidation and updating with balance updates to move under powered kits would be preferable in my mind. Whether it would be more profitable than "Ooo shiny new models no-one can buy second hand" I can't say.

I swear this is the response every time there is a rumor for new things. "No new stuff until they fix allllllllllll the old stuff." The old stuff will never be fixed to everyon's satisfaction. Your demands can never be met. If GW listened to your arguments, we would never have seen Admech, Genestealer cults, Ynnari, or anything from AOS, good or bad.


There has got to be some sort of fan-written codex out there that will give you what you need with the minis you already own.

It's beyond my artistic abilities to do so but has anyone tried drawing a mock-up of what the skull would look like based on what we know so far about just it's appearance? As an insect and as a non-insect?

The more I look at the skull the more I am convinced it is not an insect like creature.

The skeletal protrusions on the side of the jawline look a lot like those that run down along the spine of dinosaurs. I would assume they have something to do with the blades located where it's mouth would be, mandibles like we see in the Predator movies.

Hrud have been the name that won't go away over the last few years, and perhaps open up some potential visual and mechanical options that don't already exist.

There's no point in thinking about things like Ambulls and Grox, IMO, as they're not races so much as species, so it's kind of like hoping for Codex: Weasels.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Hrud have been the name that won't go away over the last few years, and perhaps open up some potential visual and mechanical options that don't already exist.

There's no point in thinking about things like Ambulls and Grox, IMO, as they're not races so much as species, so it's kind of like hoping for Codex: Weasels.

Never under estimate the power of a weasel let loose in your power armor.

 ProtoClone wrote:
It's beyond my artistic abilities to do so but has anyone tried drawing a mock-up of what the skull would look like based on what we know so far about just it's appearance? As an insect and as a non-insect?

The more I look at the skull the more I am convinced it is not an insect like creature.

The skeletal protrusions on the side of the jawline look a lot like those that run down along the spine of dinosaurs. I would assume they have something to do with the blades located where it's mouth would be, mandibles like we see in the Predator movies.

Found this Jess Goodwin sketch

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:
It's beyond my artistic abilities to do so but has anyone tried drawing a mock-up of what the skull would look like based on what we know so far about just it's appearance? As an insect and as a non-insect?

The more I look at the skull the more I am convinced it is not an insect like creature.

The skeletal protrusions on the side of the jawline look a lot like those that run down along the spine of dinosaurs. I would assume they have something to do with the blades located where it's mouth would be, mandibles like we see in the Predator movies.

Found this Jess Goodwin sketch

I would get back into the game if that was really what we were getting! A cross between Patrick Starfish and Vespids = OP!

 ProtoClone wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:
It's beyond my artistic abilities to do so but has anyone tried drawing a mock-up of what the skull would look like based on what we know so far about just it's appearance? As an insect and as a non-insect?

The more I look at the skull the more I am convinced it is not an insect like creature.

The skeletal protrusions on the side of the jawline look a lot like those that run down along the spine of dinosaurs. I would assume they have something to do with the blades located where it's mouth would be, mandibles like we see in the Predator movies.

Found this Jess Goodwin sketch

I would get back into the game if that was really what we were getting! A cross between Patrick Starfish and Vespids = OP!

AND a T-Rex (look at those arms!)

 Azreal13 wrote:
Hrud have been the name that won't go away over the last few years, and perhaps open up some potential visual and mechanical options that don't already exist.

There's no point in thinking about things like Ambulls and Grox, IMO, as they're not races so much as species, so it's kind of like hoping for Codex: Weasels.

I've been waiting for Codex: Weasels since 5e please don't try to downplay my suffering over this

 ProtoClone wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Hrud have been the name that won't go away over the last few years, and perhaps open up some potential visual and mechanical options that don't already exist.

There's no point in thinking about things like Ambulls and Grox, IMO, as they're not races so much as species, so it's kind of like hoping for Codex: Weasels.

Never under estimate the power of a weasel let loose in your power armor.

...the spasmodic perils of the M'ink...

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:
It's beyond my artistic abilities to do so but has anyone tried drawing a mock-up of what the skull would look like based on what we know so far about just it's appearance? As an insect and as a non-insect?

The more I look at the skull the more I am convinced it is not an insect like creature.

The skeletal protrusions on the side of the jawline look a lot like those that run down along the spine of dinosaurs. I would assume they have something to do with the blades located where it's mouth would be, mandibles like we see in the Predator movies.

Found this Jess Goodwin sketch

It's beautiful!

Ragnar69 wrote:
Whatever it will be, I bet it was already mentioned in Rogue Trader.

It wouldn't surprise me, what with the increasinge RT kick GW has been on the last couple of years. Personally I'll vote for sharkmen. You could even double down on the RT references by giving them S4 t3 and a 4+ save.

 Lance845 wrote:
space lizardmen riding cyber dinos.

it's all i want in this world.

Or space elves riding dinosaurs? That skull might belong to some kind of creature of theirs?

Eldar Exodites confirmed!

Uggg! I hate the eldar aesthetic. No more elves. Bring on lizardmen.

Honestly my biggest hope going off of this is that at some point we see a type of "Alien Confederation of Worlds" or something to that effect. A bunch of species marching under a single banner in the name of common security and profit.



I'm imagining a trader/smuggler/mercenary type of force made up of well-armed, privately funded troops of multiple shapes and sizes. (Think Kharadron Overlords but with Aliens)

Need close combat units? How about alien A with his mean power fist and bullet proof skin?

Need a sniper/assassin/infiltrator? Alien B has you covered, slithering in the shadows and taking pot shots at the enemy.

How about some mobile troops of the line? No problem, Aliens C and D move/levitate into position quickly and pepper the enemy with volleys of fire.

You want a leader for this rabble? Alien E is from a cold-calculating species of alien bankers who run the whole operation, provide buffs and rally the troops.

Jump troops you ask? How about a species of vampiric jumpers (Alien F) to strike at the heart of the enemy.

You get eh idea... A man can dream.

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
Honestly my biggest hope going off of this is that at some point we see a type of "Alien Confederation of Worlds" or something to that effect. A bunch of species marching under a single banner in the name of common security and profit.



I'm imagining a trader/smuggler/mercenary type of force made up of well-armed, privately funded troops of multiple shapes and sizes. (Think Kharadron Overlords but with Aliens)

Need close combat units? How about alien A with his mean power fist and bullet proof skin?

Need a sniper/assassin/infiltrator? Alien B has you covered, slithering in the shadows and taking pot shots at the enemy.

How about some mobile troops of the line? No problem, Aliens C and D move/levitate into position quickly and pepper the enemy with volleys of fire.

You want a leader for this rabble? Alien E is from a cold-calculating species of alien bankers who run the whole operation, provide buffs and rally the troops.

Jump troops you ask? How about a species of vampiric jumpers (Alien F) to strike at the heart of the enemy.

You get eh idea... A man can dream.

If that's all you want, then all they need do is expand the Tau since that's their schtick.

 agnosto wrote:

If that's all you want, then all they need do is expand the Tau since that's their schtick.

Not quite. Tau are a rising galactic empire who naturalize and employ other raes to fight for them. They are auxillaries at best, but at the end of the day they're conforming to the Tau way and those who don't get BLAMMED in accordance.

What I'm talking about is more of a trade federation, Mos Esiley Cantina criminal sort of rabble that's independent of Tau influence.

I agree with Hive City Dweller and like his idea

That would be really cool...

Tau have a clear leader race with the majority of the army being Fish/cow-esque (battle suits, fish tanks, fire caste), but this "trader army" could have a VERY diverse set of aliens, and their main goal is to profit of major forces(trading with imperium, tau, orks, maybe even eldar), rather than be one.

Plus alien c can smell of gone off milk...

 Hive City Dweller wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

If that's all you want, then all they need do is expand the Tau since that's their schtick.

Not quite. Tau are a rising galactic empire who naturalize and employ other raes to fight for them. They are auxillaries at best, but at the end of the day they're conforming to the Tau way and those who don't get BLAMMED in accordance.

What I'm talking about is more of a trade federation, Mos Esiley Cantina criminal sort of rabble that's independent of Tau influence.

Actually alot of them don't actually conform to the Tau way. Kroot definitely don't, the Vespid do but they are odd.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
A period of consolidation and updating with balance updates to move under powered kits would be preferable in my mind. Whether it would be more profitable than "Ooo shiny new models no-one can buy second hand" I can't say.

I swear this is the response every time there is a rumor for new things. "No new stuff until they fix allllllllllll the old stuff." The old stuff will never be fixed to everyon's satisfaction. Your demands can never be met. If GW listened to your arguments, we would never have seen Admech, Genestealer cults, Ynnari, or anything from AOS, good or bad.


There has got to be some sort of fan-written codex out there that will give you what you need with the minis you already own.

You realize it's not just rules right? Things like all the aspect warriors being in Finecast, missing kits from a range that has the unit available in a box set, units missing models entirely from Code/index (but not rules), And LETS NOT FORGET SISTERS WHO HAVE METAL MODELS STILL.

If there's no economic case for GW to make those things now, not making new models won't change it.

I put my bets on a ancient-high-tech Predator-esque faction. You know, with Bow-like weapons, spears and such. But still high-tech. A little mayan or aztec themed maybe.

Because:

- We already got the Alien theme covered

- Kroot? No, they dont fit. What you can do with them is fairly limited considering the Kroot are somewhat primitive. Not enough range possibilities for a whole army imo. Especially regarding vehicles. Kroot vehicles wouldn't look much apart from ork vehicles. Kroot riding on a giant winged dinosaur as Flyer unit would also look stupid.

- Vespids? I also cannot imagine Vespid vehicles. If you give them "a krisis-sized queen" as was written earlier they'd be too close to tyranids

- Enslavers? Too 90s. No real possibility to create a new range of models. They'd just enslave the current range. Boring.

- "Alien Confederation"? Don't think so. An army like this would ask for a really big model range to not look stupid. I mean, if they mix&mash Aliens they'd need to include vehicles but they could not look all the same because of the multiple races. An "Alien confederation" army wouldn't look good on the table and they'd be too much sculpting work.

- Anything low-tech or non-tech would not fit. Army of "Energy-Beings"? Who would buy that? How would you expand that model range? "Grey goo"? I can make blobs of green stuff on bases, paint them gray and have an army? no.

Maybe the new army will be kind of lizard-like but i kinda doubt that.

 Gamgee wrote:
Oo there you go crystals.

Also for some reason we don't have Predator (from the Predator movie) ripoff Xenos. Why! GW loves ripping off everything fom the 80's and I can't start a cool faction of super power aliens who hunt stuff. I even proposed multiple times how "Dark Kroot" would fit the bill perfectly if beefed up a bit. Just have it represent the part of their species who didn't want to go primtive.

Look up Yajuta folks. Super cool inspiration.

Their niche would be stolen technology and relics. For example their ancient Kroot lord could take one relic form any other faction to represent one of his famous hunts. Troops would have Tau plasma weaponry on their shoulders and all troops have some sort of basic cloak. They would be the xenos equivalent of the Deathwatch. Super small groups but extremely powerful and customisation.

Striking scorpions got the Predator treatment, though the models have moved away from the asthetic slightly. Honestly, if they still have access to camo cloaks/holo-fields, there's your predators right there.

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
Honestly my biggest hope going off of this is that at some point we see a type of "Alien Confederation of Worlds" or something to that effect.

That was meant to be Tau, but then GW started making bigger and bigger and bigger robots.

 Gamgee wrote:


I would also like to see a Xenos faction bring the Khradron Overlords speargun mechanics into the game. If you hit with their spear gun they can move the enemy unit around a little.
.

Or they could just reintroduce Squats.

I'd like to see Squats back for purely nostalgia reasons and to see if they can bring them in without losing the feel of the little guys although I think the sunnies and leather jackets and trikes might be a goner!

Bhagesi aliens would be awesome but I feel from what little fluff we have they are more akin to nids and are just a hyper aggressive alien entity who may struggle to fill a force out in the game, unless they are in fact humanoid and are literally just hyper aggressive bipedal aliens?

my bet is on either more mercenary factions for Tau including new Vespid and the Hrud.

Heya, first time poster, long time lurker. I typically collect screenshots of any and all rumors I deem credible, or at least remember them so I can piece them together later. In terms of xenos, I looked back and found some things Atia, Hastings, and others have said from what I remember, and seems like they fit in this thread of collected rumors about a new race, since there seems to be few actual rumors lol. First, Atia had said a year ago that Exodites may be coming in two years, which would be next year.


Same thread she said there could be multiple races coming, if you notice, we actually did get a few of these.


I notice some people speaking about Rak'Gol, well, there has been a little bit of chatter from that too. Note that this one is just me asking someone on War of Sigmar lol.


I don't believe we'll be seeing Hrud anytime soon, as it looks like Forgeworld attempted them but stopped for one reason or another. This is another quote from Atia.


As for other xenos, Hastings has always been cryptic, but I feel a few of these things may be in reference to new xenos. This first one was in response to the rumor engine post of what seems to be a wheel.


This one is when we first found out about the objective tokens, and in reference to the Genestealer in the tank. He could just be saying T'au as an off the cuff comment, so I wouldn't look too much into it.


Then, finally, there's colllected rumors about an upcoming boxed set from both Hastings and Bell of Lost Souls, which may include a new xenos faction if you piece the ideas together. Since it seems Hastings is suggesting that there is plastic sisters incoming, and the boxed set supposedly had Sisters and a new race. He also refers to whatever he is implying as "redacted" in both cases. The second one talking about SWA was in reference to Shadespire in what was similar to Frostgrave. For the Bell of Lost Souls rumor, it comes from this article: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/11/40k-rumors-sisters-of-battle-8th-ed.html


That's all I got for what I've seen in terms of new xenos factions. Then of course there's the recent article from GW on minor xenos.

FFjump your fantastic.

I have a post from Atia (in memory) but it would only take me an hour to find her posts that say the Tau will be getting an AoS style mini-army release. The models would be for the Tau Empire but not directly part of it to paraphrase her response. Now I personally think it's auxiliary but some folks have put forth the theory its Farsight Enclaves.

Holy jeez there is an actual real chance it could be auxiliaries. It's not solid evidence, but it helps paint a picture. I wonder if it will be Demiurg then as there has been lots of chatter about them since their appearance in the BFGA video game.

 Gamgee wrote:
FFjump your fantastic.

I have a post from Atia (in memory) but it would only take me an hour to find her posts that say the Tau will be getting an AoS style mini-army release. The models would be for the Tau Empire but not directly part of it to paraphrase her response. Now I personally think it's auxiliary but some folks have put forth the theory its Farsight Enclaves.

Holy jeez there is an actual real chance it could be auxiliaries. It's not solid evidence, but it helps paint a picture. I wonder if it will be Demiurg then as there has been lots of chatter about them since their appearance in the BFGA video game.

Yes, I remember too. Looking back I found this:



Hastings remark about Tau allies being neat may have been more rumor than remark. Now, I have two things I want to say. If the skull on Index Xenos I, which is also in that xenos gallery from the 5th edition rulebook, is indeed a clue, there is an important question to ask. Does that skull match any known xenos allied with the Tau? It might be an existing species allied with the Tau we don't have an image for. And I would put forward another notion. That Fourth Sphere of Tau that were lost. Is it possible they encountered some other race while they were lost? Perhaps a Chaos-infused race, in the edition in which Chaos is supposed to be prominent? That, or, is there anyway that skull could be a Tau mutated by the powers of Chaos? I doubt the Chaos Tau because, again, that skull has been around since at least 5th Edition, BUT a Chaos-infused xenos race could be possible. There is something else I wanted to point out regarding the Rak'Gol, who are a Chaos-based xenos race, by the way.

Do you remember this image from the rumor engine?



Does this in anyway resemble a Rak'Gol? Or at least, share design elements with one? http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Rak%27Gol

FF Jump, thank you very much for collecting all these posts into one!

I'd say this teaser resembles Rak Gol, but not too much, judging by the the image of RakGol I just saw on lexicanum.
The teased part might be a shoulder pad or a knee pad.. The armor in the picture also have some studs in it, as well curved shapes, but not as angular, as shown here.
Damn, Rak Gol would be hella cool! That must be their skull, right, right???
Demiurg - would not be cool at alll. 40k doesn't need ewoks with guns... Just like it doesn't need ewoks with power armor and trikes(I'm looking at you squats, stay eaten)
We already have 3 types of stunties in AoS, 2 of them being pretty recent releases.. So 3d flavor of dwarf from GW in 2-3 years would suck. Plus this weel- it must be a new war buggy... Please!

Rak'Gol would be cool, especially if they keep their lore very sparse and secretive.
But they seem to only have 2 eyes, and no mandibles. So I'm not sure it fits the skull, unless there's a redesign.

Whatever it is, it's not going to come in a box with sisters. Space marines, sure, but sisters? That's just unrealistic

The only known alien skull of the Tau aux it resembles is Vespid. Nothing else is even close, but as others have pointed out it would have to be a vespid mutation/offshoot/or redesign for that to be true. Honestly I would be down for just about any Xenos except a chaos xenos. However ultimately even if it is a chaos xenos and looks cool enough I would consider grabbing it. Feels so good to finally be getting some xenos diversity.

As for Demirg they are definitely not hairy all over. They have some of the dwarf traits we all know and love but GW was really trying to avoid the classic dwarf look with them but take inspiration more from dwarf mining culture. Or so the impression I get.

Honestly I think we'll have to wait for new hints on the xenos identity. If they are coming next year it's ages away so I doubt they would have hinted them so much to give them away.

Also there is no reason they can't do a new race and Tau aux wave in the same year. Especially if rumours indicate next year is the "year of the xenos".

Also I suspect Deathwatch will get a release next year with new primaris stuff because it is very thematic for the year and no way can the Primaris marines use their existing flyer. However this may be my personal want and not what GW does.

Whilst I'd like nothing more than Rak'Gol, I doubt it will be.

Thanks FFJump for collecting these quotes.

123ply wrote:
Whatever it is, it's not going to come in a box with sisters. Space marines, sure, but sisters? That's just unrealistic

Female Space Sigmarines confirmed?

The more I think about it, the more Demiurge, or squats, seem to be the leading candidate.

GW likes to reuse a lot of their CAD files when they do models. Many models are simply slight variations or sculpt-overs of existing miniatures. I understand why, it's a cost cutting trick.

GW also know the Karkardaron Overlords were a huge success for AoS. People were stating that their body armor looked a little too high-tech. Maybe that is because it simply makes it easier for GW to digitally sculpt over it later for a 40k release.

My first thought when seeing the Kharadron was that they were finally releasing Squats.

Guys I think maybe you need to stop limiting the designs based on old art and fan art. GW will probably redesign whatever it is IF it is a thing so they can trade mark the crap out of it.

 FFJump wrote:
I notice some people speaking about Rak'Gol, well, there has been a little bit of chatter from that too. Note that this one is just me asking someone on War of Sigmar lol.

Spoiler:

I hope that's just general internet [MOD EDIT - Language! - Alpharius]. Nothing would be worse than Nids running from glorified cockroaches.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 FFJump wrote:
I notice some people speaking about Rak'Gol, well, there has been a little bit of chatter from that too. Note that this one is just me asking someone on War of Sigmar lol.

Spoiler:

I hope that's just general internet [MOD EDIT - Language! - Alpharius]. Nothing would be worse than Nids running from glorified cockroaches.

I am at a bit of a loss here as well. What I have been able to find about the Rak'gol they seem rather basic. So, unless they really plan on bumping them up on the power scale, I just don't them being Nid threats.

 ProtoClone wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 FFJump wrote:
I notice some people speaking about Rak'Gol, well, there has been a little bit of chatter from that too. Note that this one is just me asking someone on War of Sigmar lol.

Spoiler:

I hope that's just general internet [MOD EDIT - Language! - Alpharius]. Nothing would be worse than Nids running from glorified cockroaches.

I am at a bit of a loss here as well. What I have been able to find about the Rak'gol they seem rather basic. So, unless they really plan on bumping them up on the power scale, I just don't them being Nid threats.

I don't know much about these aliens but what if they were a form of primal nid? That might make them something for the nids to fear.

Dudeface wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 FFJump wrote:
I notice some people speaking about Rak'Gol, well, there has been a little bit of chatter from that too. Note that this one is just me asking someone on War of Sigmar lol.

Spoiler:

I hope that's just general internet [MOD EDIT - Language! - Alpharius]. Nothing would be worse than Nids running from glorified cockroaches.

I am at a bit of a loss here as well. What I have been able to find about the Rak'gol they seem rather basic. So, unless they really plan on bumping them up on the power scale, I just don't them being Nid threats.

I don't know much about these aliens but what if they were a form of primal nid? That might make them something for the nids to fear.

I really hope not. That would be very anti-climactic in my opinion.

We already have 'Nids. I would hate to see another bug race.

Good to see Hasting is back on the wagon. Maybe we'll start to see real leaks again.

 draugadan wrote:
We already have 'Nids. I would hate to see another bug race.

Infinitely better, than another humanoid race...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedalus81 wrote:
Good to see Hasting is back on the wagon. Maybe we'll start to see real leaks again.

Well in his absence Lady Atia and SadPanda filled in quite nicely.
Although, SadPanda has vanished :(

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

 draugadan wrote:
We already have 'Nids. I would hate to see another bug race.

Infinitely better, than another humanoid race...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedalus81 wrote:
Good to see Hasting is back on the wagon. Maybe we'll start to see real leaks again.

Well in his absence Lady Atia and SadPanda filled in quite nicely.
Although, SadPanda has vanished :(

Obviously to each their own, but to me Tau are nothing like Eldar, or Space Marines. To me Bugs are bugs. The Rak'gol don't seem to offer anything compellingly new. On a side note how has this thread gone this long? It is all conjecture and wish listing, it doesn't seem to have any actual news. Shouldn't this be in General Discussions?

It's been fairly civil for the most part, so probably hasn't drawn much mod attention.

 EnTyme wrote:
It's been fairly civil for the most part, so probably hasn't drawn much mod attention.

Fair enough I guess.

For what it is worth, I'd love to see Hrud. Specifically the rat tailed version not the walking rot ones.

May be of interest for those folks hoping for Rak'gol

Rak'Gol hypothesis based on FF Games

Neronoxx wrote:

Voss wrote:
Hrm. Next time, a more appropriate thread title would be nice. 'Searching for rumours on new aliens' or something like that. A reuse of one (of twenty something) small pieces of alien art from two editions ago isn't exactly compelling.

Especially when it shares a page with ambulls, zoats and hrud.

No, I think there's some merit to this idea.
The skull on Xenos 1 is definitely important, as it matches none if the races represented within the book (correct me if I'm wrong, but fairly positive here.) Yet they used this anyways.
Why? It's deliberate misrepresentation. An eldar helm or necron symbol would have worked fine.
But instead they use this skull. Add to this that the lead developer, Pete Foley, specifically stated he'd like to work on a new faction for 40k, Lady Atia's rumor and things start to make sense.
That said, I hope its the Rak'gol or whatever they're called. Super cool race.

Specifically the ancient races are in XENOS 1, except the ancient ones themselves....

Even if the Rak'gol were an insectoid race, most insects are happy to wage genocidal campaigns against each other.



These guys look lizardlike to me, although they do have lots of limbs. They also apparently use manufactured technology, instead of organic bioweapons.

The only overlap I'm see with Tyranids is that both have more than 2 legs.

I'd be happy with any new playable 40K really. Space Skaven, Space Dwarves, Rak'gol, sentient Crystals animating suits of armor.

Heck, I'd even take a race of Technologically advanced humans that were not aligned with the Imperium or Chaos

Having just read up on the Rak'Gol, I have to say they wouldn't make a bad addition to the game. Basically a 40k ogre kingdoms feeling.

Two words:

Iron. Men.

 Galas wrote:
Two words:

Iron. Men.

Wooden Ships?

I actually think the idea of unaffiliated humans would be a nice addition too (though of course Xeno would be preferable to this). Something like the Interex would be neat

The Rak'Ghul look absolutely amazing, seeing them on the tabletop would be spectacular. Imagine a 25mm scale creature like that- long like a hormagaunt but taller than a human, sporting cybernetic weapon implants and a toothy maw.

Might be enough to get me back into the game

I'd be interested in the Rak'Gol is they were big multi-limbed cybertnetically enhanced reptilian looking things like that art.

A low count high cost army of larger models fits me to a T.

Plus with a little ingenuity and elbow grease they'd make some fine dragon ogres...

Classic RT race not represented yet in the current lore: Zoats. Could go the whole "doomed race fleeing their destroyers" bit, make them larger than an Ogryn and maybe mix in a bit of Posleen.

More realistically there is not much left from classic scifi that can not be accounted for by one of the existing races. Something like "AI controlled battle robots" is effectively covered by Necrons (aesthetics)/Tau (drones), particularly as 40k lacks robust Morale and Command/Control rules, so an army that ignores those means nothing.

The Iron Men would be a legion of purpose built autonomous machines. They could be completely inhuman in shape, unilke Tau crisis suits, and very industrial in aesthetic, lacking the round smoothness of Tau tech.

Think of all the Terminator series Hunter Killers, excluding the exoskeleton designs.

 adamsouza wrote:
The Iron Men would be a legion of purpose built autonomous machines. They could be completely inhuman in shape, unilke Tau crisis suits, and very industrial in aesthetic, lacking the round smoothness of Tau tech.

Think of all the Terminator series Hunter Killers, excluding the exoskeleton designs.

Maybe a little too close to Mechanicus but...

 Galas wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
The Iron Men would be a legion of purpose built autonomous machines. They could be completely inhuman in shape, unilke Tau crisis suits, and very industrial in aesthetic, lacking the round smoothness of Tau tech.

Think of all the Terminator series Hunter Killers, excluding the exoskeleton designs.

Maybe a little too close to Mechanicus but...

Beautifull work! You are a man ahead of his time!

 adamsouza wrote:
The Iron Men would be a legion of purpose built autonomous machines. They could be completely inhuman in shape, unilke Tau crisis suits, and very industrial in aesthetic, lacking the round smoothness of Tau tech.

Think of all the Terminator series Hunter Killers, excluding the exoskeleton designs.

We know what the Iron Men looked like though...they were human in shape.

The Gaunt's Ghost book, "First & Only" had them finding a corrupted STC producing Iron Men.

I am now totally on board for Rak'gol. Very different from Nids with a bunch of Rad weapons. Would love to see these guys on the table.

 ProtoClone wrote:
I am at a bit of a loss here as well. What I have been able to find about the Rak'gol they seem rather basic. So, unless they really plan on bumping them up on the power scale, I just don't them being Nid threats.

Maybe if they had figured out a way to block the hive mind? That's the only thing that I can think of that might scare the Warp out of the 'nids.

The problem would be how to represent this on the table in a way that didn't turn them into a race that was OP against the 'nids, and weak against everyone else.

I very much doubt the Nids are running from the Rak'gol, or that the Nids are running from anything.

It's a theory but a disproven one. The Nids were drawn here when a psychic device was activated during the HH. They are here to feed, Not on the run.

The Rak'Gol don't need to be tied to any other race, and I would really prefer they were not. I would like for them to be just crazy space barbarian lizards.

The Rak'Gol could be interesting on the tabletop. I'd like to see them be made out of parts of the two armies from WFB that never really got a IN SPACE! version in 40k, the Skaven (Clan Skryer in particular) and the Ogre Kingdoms. A small number of big, tough models, armed with powerful, yet unpredictable and dangerous (to you as well as the enemy) weapons.

Also, having them (or any race, really) do anything other than "run until you can't run anymore and hope you can stop them" as far as the Tyranids go robs the 'Nids of the whole "biblical plague of locusts on a cosmic scale" thing that makes them so thematically unique. They aren't an army, they're a swarm.

The Xenos I'd want to see most, though, is the Umbra, mostly because of how different to anything else the models would be, having these wispy clouds of shadow that form into solid shapes like jaws and clawed hands.

The thing with the Men of Iron is how they already did a spin on evil killer robots with the Necrons, so they'd need an interesting fluff angle with them. I was talking about this with a friend a while back, and what we came up with as a way to make what is basically Skynet fit into 40k is they are controlled by a vast computer intelligence built to accumulate information and process the data and make calculations to expand on what it had learned and so on and so on and so on, and in the process completely understood EVERYTHING, in the "someone just read from the Necronomicon in a Lovecraft story" way, and as such went totally nutzo bonkers about things too terrifying to now, and it uses an army of robots to do things only it can understand in its madness.

Rak'Gol remind me of Zoats (at least physically). I reckon that if we do see them, we'll probably see them augmented by slave-xenos (maybe allies), but more brutal, animalistic xenos than the sentient creatures the Tau tend to work with.

Skaven reimagined in 40K (whether it's the Hurd or some other group) would be interesting.

Make them use Chaos without just being another Chaos force, 40K-i-fy the Clans. Would make for some interesting miniatures.

I'm definitely in the camp of wanting a more distinct sci fi race in 40k, as opposed to porting a fantasy race into sci fi (or in the case of the stormcasts, vice versa) the legacy races are untouchable at this point, but of GW is going to expand the setting in terms of major races on the table top itd be nicenti see 40 do it's own thing.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
I'm definitely in the camp of wanting a more distinct sci fi race in 40k, as opposed to porting a fantasy race into sci fi (or in the case of the stormcasts, vice versa) the legacy races are untouchable at this point, but of GW is going to expand the setting in terms of major races on the table top itd be nicenti see 40 do it's own thing.

I wouldn't be made if it turns out to be the 40K version of Skaven. However, I also would love if it were something unique to the 40K setting. The Rak'Gol to me would be disappointing. Those pictures of the lizards are just not remotely exciting to me, I think they look silly. I also do not think they really bring anything new to the line up of armies.

The Slann are the bipedal fat Frog priests as seen in War-Hammer Fantasy armies of Lizardmen
http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slann (pics towards top of article)
Here is a 40k wiki version of the bipedal Lizardmen
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Slann


For those of you who do not want to see biped Lizards in space, I agree, I too do not want to see biped Lizards in space... my emphasis is on no more 'bipeds'

Now, for those of you who may not be fully aware of Rak'Gol:
The Rak'Gol are almost an Arachnid type Lizard folk since they have 4 "legs" and 4 "arms"
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Rak%27Gol (pics towards the middle of article)

Much more aggressive and mean, very well armed, much uglier (or prettier if you are a Rak'Gol), much more established in Rogue Trader than Slann space Lizards, and they already have fleets of ships in their Space Armadas...

Imperial Guards have 2 arms,
Some Orks build a 3rd,
Some Tech Priests go as far as 4 or 5,
Tyranids have 6 arms
That means the only way to go is up Up UP!

So I vote Rak'Gol... But this is all rumors and speculation...

The Rak gol are awesome

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/6/6e/Ransacking_the_dig_by_columbussage.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130328220750

and I jope we see them along with Exodites, because, lets face it, theyre so cool as a concept

I'll put forth a vote of confidence for the Rak'gol. I agree that a new distinct 40k race is needed. Not an older fantasy race turned 40k.

My biggest complaint about the "Rak'Gol" right now is that the name sounds almost the same as the "Rak'Guls" that were a problem in Knights of the Old Republic.

What can I say. Every time I see the name, what pops into my head is the stupid crazed ghouls from the planet Taris.

On reflection, I want Eldar Exodites.

Background wise, with the great rift and of course Ynnead, it makes a certain amount of sense for them to be more aggressive.

 Psyker_9er wrote:
Imperial Guards have 2 arms,
Some Orks build a 3rd,
Some Tech Priests go as far as 4 or 5,
Tyranids have 6 arms
That means the only way to go is up Up UP!

No you can go down you can have armies of one armed warriors you can have armies without any arm at all for instance you can get an army of psychic space starfishes!

I would love to see GW do another totally alien looking race; rather than another bipedal based race. Tyranids have a pretty firm appearance and set of properties now, so there's ample room to introduce a totally new appearing faction.



That or Space Skaven!

 Overread wrote:
I would love to see GW do another totally alien looking race; rather than another bipedal based race. Tyranids have a pretty firm appearance and set of properties now, so there's ample room to introduce a totally new appearing faction.

You can't get any more unlike "bipedal humanoid-based" than the Umbra. Just saying.

I'd love to see some genuine big beast riding races.

If the Rak'Gol were about the same size as Dragon Ogres on some of the larger oval bases that would give them a bit of a different profile on the table, even though we're all wishlisting here.

What books detailed these things and the Umbra? The Fantasy Flight RPGs?

 adamsouza wrote:
The Iron Men would be a legion of purpose built autonomous machines. They could be completely inhuman in shape, unilke Tau crisis suits, and very industrial in aesthetic, lacking the round smoothness of Tau tech.

Think of all the Terminator series Hunter Killers, excluding the exoskeleton designs.

An industrial aesthetic would not fit the descriptions of Dark Age technology. If anything, the Men of Iron should look far more advanced than the Tau.


It would defeat the purpose of a new faction/race if they are nothing more than redressed Mechanicus or Imperial technology. There wouldn't be much of a distinction between the Imperium and Men of Iron.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ArmorOfContempt wrote:


The thing with the Men of Iron is how they already did a spin on evil killer robots with the Necrons, so they'd need an interesting fluff angle with them. I was talking about this with a friend a while back, and what we came up with as a way to make what is basically Skynet fit into 40k is they are controlled by a vast computer intelligence built to accumulate information and process the data and make calculations to expand on what it had learned and so on and so on and so on, and in the process completely understood EVERYTHING, in the "someone just read from the Necronomicon in a Lovecraft story" way, and as such went totally nutzo bonkers about things too terrifying to now, and it uses an army of robots to do things only it can understand in its madness.

If we're talking about the Oldcrons, I would agree. But the Newcrons (who have replaced the mindless automaton Necrons for the most part) are a different animal. The Men of Iron make the current Necrons look like paragons of virtue.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
What books detailed these things and the Umbra? The Fantasy Flight RPGs?

None of the RPGs had Umbra. Xenology had them, and that's the reason we won't see them.

I am completely sold on the Rak'Gol after reading about them. Didn't even know they existed before this thread popped up, but they fit perfectly in the current line up of armies I think.

They would be another race of slightly high-tech, but still brutal and primal. Right now the Orks are the only ones really falling into that category, with Nids just being primal 100%. Dirty and tough sci-fi is always cool, and giant reptiles that raid and brutally murder all they see sounds pretty good.

I really like the idea of them using rad weapons to, and their ships look awesome. Imagine a hover/flyer transport for them with this aestethic:

 Hollow wrote:
I'd love to see some genuine big beast riding races.

You'd get that with either Exodites or a potential space Lizardmen army.

One way to think of this is in terms of marketing and expenses. GW wants to minimize the number of different products they have to make, stock and support. And maximize sales of each box. They also don't want to put too much into a new, unproven faction.

When GW introduced the Necrons back in the day they did with a very small number of units (just warriors, scarabs and lords IIRC) and absurdly overpowered.

It's been funny watching Necron Warriors devolve from T5, 2+ saves to their current T4, 4+ saves (I expect T3, 5+ saves with the next codex!).

So from that angle a Monsterous Creature army might make a lot of sense. A hypothetical Star Dragon army with just one or two kits and a half dozen models in an army would be new, different and provide minimal risk to GW financially.

Another might be the Army Ants (or skaven or zombies or whatever). Just 1 kit of 20 of them. You put 200+ in an army. They're just a carpet of eating monsters.

Both overlap with Nids, basically choosing one aspect and making it a faction but good enough designs might make a new race along either line work.

Honestly whilst GW wants to minimise investment and maximise profit they don't want to do it the Necron way. Necrons had a laughable 5 or so units for a very very long time. It made the less popular because there was so little variety.

Similarly around that same time we had Dark Eldar unpopular for their lack of current rules.

I think GW has learned from that; look at the new fantasy army being introduced with a wealth of choices. A new army is a risk to add ,but if they are going to add it they know its got to have long term support (updated rules all the time in keeping with the others); and its got to have a variety of units to get people interested.

GW can clearly produce on a much larger scale than ever before; they've got design teams and potential to invest in a new army in a serious way. That said at present I'd think the timing is wrong for a full new army; they've still got shortfalls in production for current armies; another year or so and perhaps there will be more production time to add another faction into the game that isn't Marines/Imperials

I don't think we'll see a new army without at least a single HQ, Elite, Troop, Fast Attack, and heavy choice.

A clam pack HQ, and two dual purpose plastic box sets minimum.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's been funny watching Necron Warriors devolve from T5, 2+ saves to their current T4, 4+ saves (I expect T3, 5+ saves with the next codex!).

"Funny" is one way to describe it...

While I think GW is very much choosing a go big or go home approach to new forces with each force organization slot covered, it's worth pointing out that the new or refurbished additions we've seen in the past couple of years always came under the umbrella of established armies. While you can play sky dorfs by themselves, they are part of the Order Grand Alliance. Genestealers can ally with Tyranids (and often enough discussions about the army revolved around what Genestealer Cults add to existing Tyranid armies).

I wouldn't expect a race like the Rak'Gol because it has no affiliation with anyone else. Instead, I assume any race that is added will have a safety net so that in case it doesn't sell on its own, it'll sell as part or ally of another army.

Tau did this well before GW discovered big stompy robots sell and if we see Lizardmen in space or Zoats or whatever, my guess is it'll be in such a way that they they are part of the Tau empire, mercs for hire for a number of armies or, like Exodites, part of an established race.

It would be cool to get something that is entirely it's own thing (also, plastic Sisters), but I'm not at the point yet were I expect GW to do that. I guess at least that leaves room to be pleasantly surprised.

Even though in plastic they can feel really wasteful and sometimes really silly (eg the Zoanthrope box there's maybe only two parts you miss to build one of each) the duel boxed sets are very popular and GW loves them.

You can also use a unit like a carnifex or many imperial tank options - ergo a single model that with varying weapon choices can fit into multiple required roles. That can give an army a good backbone to work from without needing legions of models- then later on you can start to add specialist units to add filler - much like they've done with Tyranids

The point about affiliations is a good one.

If I had my druthers it would be the long-wish listed Rogue Trader/pirate/mercenary list.

Human scum, random aliens, landing boats, and a big tall dude with a cool coat.

Can ally with anyone, even the Nids, they don't care.

Yeah.

Sign me up.

A race of those good old SF standby's the Energy Being,

totally immaterial so done in clear HIPS designed for LED lighting in the bases

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
One way to think of this is in terms of marketing and expenses. GW wants to minimize the number of different products they have to make, stock and support. And maximize sales of each box. They also don't want to put too much into a new, unproven faction.

When GW introduced the Necrons back in the day they did with a very small number of units (just warriors, scarabs and lords IIRC) and absurdly overpowered.

It's been funny watching Necron Warriors devolve from T5, 2+ saves to their current T4, 4+ saves (I expect T3, 5+ saves with the next codex!).

So from that angle a Monsterous Creature army might make a lot of sense. A hypothetical Star Dragon army with just one or two kits and a half dozen models in an army would be new, different and provide minimal risk to GW financially.

Another might be the Army Ants (or skaven or zombies or whatever). Just 1 kit of 20 of them. You put 200+ in an army. They're just a carpet of eating monsters.

Both overlap with Nids, basically choosing one aspect and making it a faction but good enough designs might make a new race along either line work.

Good points.

Expand on what has already been produced, like Eldar Exodites.

Necrons were a slow intro indeed. Having Tau gives GW a platform to make even smaller intros for races to turn into armies. They start off as allies, then expand even more if desired.

I think a connection to the Tau might be prudent... or maybe the orks or necrons, since these armies are the only ones currently available that have no allies whatsoever...

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The point about affiliations is a good one.

If I had my druthers it would be the long-wish listed Rogue Trader/pirate/mercenary list.

Human scum, random aliens, landing boats, and a big tall dude with a cool coat.

Can ally with anyone, even the Nids, they don't care.

Yeah.

Sign me up.

This would be kind of cool. I really like things like the Officio Asassinorum that offer extremely specialized units to fill certain roles which your army might be deficient in.

This would also solve the problem of GW being hesitant to introduce a fully fleshed-out army. If the units are available for everyone to use, then they aren't boxing themselves in.

Problem is, every rumor is saying the new race is Xenos.

So maybe they will be a band of mercenaries specifically made for Xenos races?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
One way to think of this is in terms of marketing and expenses. GW wants to minimize the number of different products they have to make, stock and support. And maximize sales of each box. They also don't want to put too much into a new, unproven faction.

You need to think about it in terms of boxed sets.

Take something like Blight War and the 8th edition box (Death Guard is basically a new faction)... put one faction that is well loved and add a second faction that has amazing models. The risk would be very low since those boxes are always a great deal and penetration will be high.

With all the "GW is going back to the old days" talk with 8th, I'm calling it right now: the squats are coming back.

I don't think the squats will ever come back. Honestly I will say this. I think squats coming back in 40k (in a non-alienised version) would be a bad idea. A colossal misfire and it would be disappointing as they wouldn't be a "new" race but a reboot of an old one.

I think they could make Kharadron Overlord dwarves work in space, but they really need to make the species look different from dwarves to get me interested. Hence why I have more interested in the Demiurg. Heck even looking at the Demiurg they don't look alien enough to what I would want to see for space dwarves.

Edit
Bringing back squats is a bigger risk than making plastic sisters for GW or even a new race.

Did they say new primary race is coming or just that there will be a new race?

We may be guessing at a new race while GW is just building a new subrace for Tau.

 Da-Rock wrote:
Did they say new primary race is coming or just that there will be a new race?

We may be guessing at a new race while GW is just building a new subrace for Tau.

From what I understand, they have only said race.

So yes, this very well could just be another Tau ally.

Ummm... I thought GW already confirmed that the 'new race' was Primaris Space Marines?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's been funny watching Necron Warriors devolve from T5, 2+ saves to their current T4, 4+ saves (I expect T3, 5+ saves with the next codex!).

The models became skinnier though.

 oni wrote:
Ummm... I thought GW already confirmed that the 'new race' was Primaris Space Marines?

Xeno fans are still in denial regarding the fact that the new race is just more marines

That and this thread is supposing a new faction based upon evidence/rumour/patterns identified in the opening post - then in absence of any other news we've all just gone into new faction wishlisting mode.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's been funny watching Necron Warriors devolve from T5, 2+ saves to their current T4, 4+ saves (I expect T3, 5+ saves with the next codex!).

The models became skinnier though.

That's because they finally got out from their parent's basement and got a real job, like their brother. All they really needed was a swift kick in the arse and they would shape right up, lose weight, and make something of themselves.

Yeah I keep expecting to see clarification that Lady Atia's words were misconstrued and the new race is actually the one being worked on for Tau. As that is the only solid reliable rumour regarding a xenos release we have.

It seems like this rumour is only based on chinese whispers. Did anybody has found.a post from atia claiming well have a.new.xeno race?

If they brought back Squats I would literally throw $$$$$$ @ GW.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
One way to think of this is in terms of marketing and expenses. GW wants to minimize the number of different products they have to make, stock and support. And maximize sales of each box. They also don't want to put too much into a new, unproven faction.

You need to think about it in terms of boxed sets.

Or (board) games. There's always the possibility to put some creatures in them - like an Ambull or a Zoat trio. Just look at the FY I'm going home Ogroid guy, the weird four-legged goblins or the Aberrants.

I don't think Discus has a search function and Lady Atia has a private account so it's really hard to check these things.
Please remember this is a rumour thread, not a virtually confirmed and just waiting for a release date thread. Everyone is having fun and being polite so the mods are just letting us roll with this.

This Lady Atia person seems to have a near perfect rumour mill. That's pretty impressive, hadn't heard of her until this thread.

Differs quite a bit from an acquaintance of mine who claims he has contacts at GW. He was "100% sure" that the Primaris marines would be Thunder Warriors. He has this really annoying manner in which he speaks/writes, always being super cocky and adding "winkyface" to all his posts.

"They are Thunder Warriors, trust me ;-)"
"I have contact at GW, everyone who knows me knows that I am always right ;-)"

Well, guess what, you were wrong about the Primaris. You goof.

Anyway, Lady Atia seems much more reliable. If she says a new race is coming, it might just be the case. In which way there will be a new race (Tau allies, completely new "main" race etc) remains to be seen though.

Myself I am really hoping for Rak'Gol, they are BAMFs.

Just remember we don't know if she has anything to do with this rumour. The only thing xenos related she has said is the Tau are getting something next year that is not directly part of the Tau Empire. So this probably means auxiliary faction but it could also be Farsight Enclaves wave. Or something that isn't either of those.

Gw needs to focus on redoing old models before a new race. Half of eldar is in finecast and made to order.
Need mention sisters?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Gw needs to focus on redoing old models before a new race. Half of eldar is in finecast and made to order.
Need mention sisters?

Aye Tyranids have got a few still in finecast; though I'll be shocked if we don't get a duel pyro/bio vore and duel deathleaper/lictor boxed sets in plastic with the new codex launch. That would leave only the Red Terror in finecast and still the only Tyranid special character that isn't in a plastic boxed set. So they could well drop the Red Terror at that point.

A shame as I'd rather see some new special character Tyranid models - its a bit of a shame that something like the Swarm Lord is just a regular hive tyrant with a bigger horn and four swords instead of other arm choices.

I would do unmentionable things for a tyranid superheavy on par with an Imperial Knight.....

Well, if you want a great Tyranid superheavy there is FW.

He probably wants one which was actually designed to stand on its own without crumbling.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Gw needs to focus on redoing old models before a new race. Half of eldar is in finecast and made to order.
Need mention sisters?

What are you talking about, Sisters of Silence just got a new set!

I wouldn't be surprised if the "new" xenos race turns out to be the Ynnari getting their own range, with a distinct look.

Theres plenty of mercenary races in thr background for them to expand upon, and some FF games ones they could use. Isnt there an emergent alien empire in the Segmentum Pacificus that makes the Tau look like a bunch of wimps in terms of threat and scale?

Hoping for a new Horus Heresy boxed set with plastic Mark v Heresy armour and Plastic jetbikes/land speeders (maybe Emperors children) vs. megarachnids who will get rules for 40k as well

 Crazyterran wrote:
Theres plenty of mercenary races in thr background for them to expand upon, and some FF games ones they could use. Isnt there an emergent alien empire in the Segmentum Pacificus that makes the Tau look like a bunch of wimps in terms of threat and scale?

To be fair anything that can get its head up in the Grim 40K millennium has to be pretty darn powerful. Humanity already swept across a huge portion of the Universe cleansing the Xeno filth and where they are not there are Orks, Tyranids and Chaos as major factions that can threaten whole systems. Necrons are also a slumbering beast that could arise from the depths of a world without warning.

So you kind of have to fluff-protect a faction to get them stand up against the established fluff that has all but crushed most serious opposition.

Tau got some big warp storms and some sneaky hinted Eldar protection; plus I think they've steadily increased the capacity of their space ships so that they are comparable and capable (least the Imperial Fleet simply swats them like a fly)

No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

zerosignal wrote:
No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

Oh my God, you mean they can't progressively do both?

Gosh!

 ekwatts wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

Oh my God, you mean they can't progressively do both?

Gosh!

You know they can't.

Sculptor time is limited.
Release windows are limited.
The number of plastic casting machines is limited.
Shelf space at GW and FLGS shops is limited.
The number of new releases the market can absorb each week is limited.

A new Necromunda means a big box release and then weeks for any additional gangs and factions.

So a big release for existing lines or new factions has to compete with upcoming AoS, 40k, Necromunda and whatever else is coming. And there's only 3 months till Christmas. So no, they can't do both.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

Oh my God, you mean they can't progressively do both?

Gosh!

You know they can't.

Sculptor time is limited.
Release windows are limited.
The number of plastic casting machines is limited.
Shelf space at GW and FLGS shops is limited.
The number of new releases the market can absorb each week is limited.

A new Necromunda means a big box release and then weeks for any additional gangs and factions.

So a big release for existing lines or new factions has to compete with upcoming AoS, 40k, Necromunda and whatever else is coming. And there's only 3 months till Christmas. So no, they can't do both.

They need to update Chaos, Eldar some orks, Chaos, Eldar, CHAOS, ELDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR............






ABBADON1!!!111111!!!!!

Everyone is looking at the big skull and skipping the small one on top. Proof that Squats are coming back.

Does anyone think that 'new race' might be some kind of pun? I seem to recall something by Lady Atia which implied it was a joke and the 'race' in question was 'a contest of speed' rather than 'a species'. Possibly to do with that rumour engine image which looks like a wheel?

zerosignal wrote:
No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

..............they say EVERY year since 1985....................

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

Oh my God, you mean they can't progressively do both?

Gosh!

You know they can't.

Sculptor time is limited.
Release windows are limited.
The number of plastic casting machines is limited.
Shelf space at GW and FLGS shops is limited.
The number of new releases the market can absorb each week is limited.

A new Necromunda means a big box release and then weeks for any additional gangs and factions.

So a big release for existing lines or new factions has to compete with upcoming AoS, 40k, Necromunda and whatever else is coming. And there's only 3 months till Christmas. So no, they can't do both.

Sculptor time is limited - yes it is, but it's the only thing they do, 5 days a week. It's their job. I'm sure they come up with hundreds of designs that never see the light of day. Any artist can corroborate this.
Release windows are limited - yes, but only to the extent to your later point.
The number of plastic casting machines is limited - yes, but the space to hold the molds is not. They have standardized molds that they can put into storage or pull out if needed whenever they need to. This is a non-issue.
Shelf space at GW and FLGS shops is limited - sure, but if you're only putting the hottest stuff on the shelves, this is a non-issue.
The number of new releases the market can absorb each week is limited - this is the best point you made.

GW made about 10 new kits for Death Guard, only two of which were updated models (Plague Marines and Typhus). They added Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults, along with Harlequins before those, expanding their ranges. They're adding Necromunda and all those gangs, along with Shadespire and the different factions for that.

GW is clearly not afraid to expand their lines and give people new things to build, paint, and play. A new faction could totally happen.



HOWEVER, Lady Atia made a point that I want to bring up. On the first post there's the screenshot of a list of factions that she responded to. She said "Well, let's say - stuff that you thought wouldn't be possible in plastic is now possible."

That's a point at Sisters of Battle more than anything else. For years people have been harping on about GW not having the technology to do the faces right for the Sisters of Battle. Never was there a mention of a new faction requiring something in plastic that wasn't possible. It's always been one of the excuses as to why we don't have Plastic sisters yet.

Okay this is about a new xenos race so keep the chatter of sisters in its own thread please.

There's a great scene in The Player where Tim Robbins' character explains that as a movie producer he hears pitches from EVERYONE, hundreds a year. Established directors, stars, writers, his barber, the taxi driver...

And he can say 'yes' 10 times a year, that's it. That what they have the resources for.

So the gatekeepers at GW are the same, hearing pitches for units, characters, monsters, vehicles, whole factions and whole new games from their studio, the other staff, 100s of people in stores, 1000s of fans.

And they can say yes... oh lets say 100 times a year.

So if it comes to:
Sisters
Eldar gap filling
Chaos remodeling
New Marines
New Xenos

They have to ask what will make the most money. And they're sitting on 30 years of sales figues that might tell them that Eldar big things sell but Aspect warriors don't, or Chaos sells regardless of whether models are new or not, or Girl Armies don't sell... Or maybe the opposite of all of these.

Now history is a guide until it isn't. Maybe they had an axiom that Dwarves don't sell, until the steampunk air pirates came out at which time Dwarves did sell!

So basically I'm saying there's lots of stuff GW could do, but the rumors seem to be saying new Xenos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd also add since GW went to all plastics a few years back they could have done and Eldar refresh or Sisters or a Chaos refresh any time.

Instead they did Genestealers, Adeptus Mech, terrain, Deathwatch, Stormcast, Overlords etc...

So unless something is different now, it seems unlikely that these long-standing action items would suddenly move to the top of the list.

Except the dwarves didn't sell at all and were generally seen as one of the so-so fantasy lines from what I can tell and gather. Khradron Overlords were noted as selling crazy well if GW's own report is anything to go by.

Also using your reasoning the only thing they should sell is 10 marine releases a year. Nothing not even chaos marines should exist with that logic. Games workshop is not a pure money making machine. There are much better businesses to get into if you want to make tons of money than making simple plastic models. They are a mix of business and creative talent. They need the right mix to work because if all they did was focus on money I get the feeling we would enter another old school GW period where their sales were actually dipping. They are out to sell models, but that starts with the most creative and original models.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Does anyone think that 'new race' might be some kind of pun? I seem to recall something by Lady Atia which implied it was a joke and the 'race' in question was 'a contest of speed' rather than 'a species'. Possibly to do with that rumour engine image which looks like a wheel?

So what you're saying is...

GORKA MORKA RERELEASE CONFIRMED!!!

/duck

 Gamgee wrote:
Except the dwarves didn't sell at all and were generally seen as one of the so-so fantasy lines from what I can tell and gather. Khradron Overlords were noted as selling crazy well if GW's own report is anything to go by.

Also using your reasoning the only thing they should sell is 10 marine releases a year. Nothing not even chaos marines should exist with that logic. Games workshop is not a pure money making machine. There are much better businesses to get into if you want to make tons of money than making simple plastic models. They are a mix of business and creative talent. They need the right mix to work because if all they did was focus on money I get the feeling we would enter another old school GW period where their sales were actually dipping. They are out to sell models, but that starts with the most creative and original models.

Well I'd say Marines make up something from 1/3 to 1/2 of the 40k releases (and maybe more from FW) so yeah. Of course GW needs to release more than Marines, too many marines cannibalize from each other but they're already supporting 3 incompatible marine lines: Venerable Secondis, 30k and Primaris!

I would not be surprised if, by GW's figures, Marines are underwriting some other factions.

But part of my points, going back to the Overlords, is that a professional can look at a pitch and realize that it's good enough to defy history and is worth pursuing. Sometimes a book by an unpublished writer about kids in a magic boarding school looks like a low-tier back list sort of title, but a good professional will realize this 'Harry Potter' thing has potential.

So if GW is doing a new Xenos faction rather than filling gaps of their mid-to-low-tier factions it might be because they see something great in it.

It seems to me that GW is quite reluctant to just do a regular update of any models from metal/resin to plastic. There are some exceptions of course, like the (40k) Meganobz, but in general it seems like they don't want to do it unless they also change and add stuff.

An example of this would be the Mek Gunz, which don't quite replace the old Big Gunz, but fill the same role (only better and with more elaborate/expensive kits).

So be a bit careful what you wish for - maybe plastic aspect warriors will become some kind of Ynnari exclusive, with new rules and fluff.

And then maybe after an edition or two, the old versions kinda fade away and disappear (which is what I expect will happen with the Big Gunz once the new Ork codex drops. Possibly this will also happen with the old Buggy/Trakk/Deffkopta kits, if a new one - as hinted - is released. The old versions are in the index, but not in the codex).

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Except the dwarves didn't sell at all and were generally seen as one of the so-so fantasy lines from what I can tell and gather. Khradron Overlords were noted as selling crazy well if GW's own report is anything to go by.

Also using your reasoning the only thing they should sell is 10 marine releases a year. Nothing not even chaos marines should exist with that logic. Games workshop is not a pure money making machine. There are much better businesses to get into if you want to make tons of money than making simple plastic models. They are a mix of business and creative talent. They need the right mix to work because if all they did was focus on money I get the feeling we would enter another old school GW period where their sales were actually dipping. They are out to sell models, but that starts with the most creative and original models.

Well I'd say Marines make up something from 1/3 to 1/2 of the 40k releases (and maybe more from FW) so yeah. Of course GW needs to release more than Marines, too many marines cannibalize from each other but they're already supporting 3 incompatible marine lines: Venerable Secondis, 30k and Primaris!

I would not be surprised if, by GW's figures, Marines are underwriting some other factions.

But part of my points, going back to the Overlords, is that a professional can look at a pitch and realize that it's good enough to defy history and is worth pursuing. Sometimes a book by an unpublished writer about kids in a magic boarding school looks like a low-tier back list sort of title, but a good professional will realize this 'Harry Potter' thing has potential.

So if GW is doing a new Xenos faction rather than filling gaps of their mid-to-low-tier factions it might be because they see something great in it.

I would say it's more about marketing appeal than anything. They make other factions to appeal to other demographics. Not everyone plays marines or vice versa. Believe it or not. Having only space marines would I think limit how much people they can get. Also new factions tend to sell better than new models for existing factions since there is more hype towards a big release. Also updating old models is also not very profitable for them as a new model completely.

I honestly think 40k has grown enough there is enough interest for a new xenos race. People are getting sick of seeing nothing but marines and IoM releases (more so the marines) at this point. It's very clear there is enough they could tap into a new demographic. Also the existing xenos players likely all have huge finished armies at this point and are likely in a prime position to start a new army provided it is well made and gets everyone's interest.

People said Deathwatch would never happen. Or Genestealer cults. Or many of the others you mention. People didn't think Primarchs would ever get done. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Particularly with new GW.

Edit
Also there will also be the inevitable Primarch release next year. Because of course there needs to be.

Yeah, I really struggle to buy into this conception of GW as razor-keen market manipulators engaging in numbers-flying-past-head-GIF calculations to discover exactly which thing will sell most.

I'm sure (modern)GW engage in some market research and informed speculation, but you can't look at them dropping something like GSC out of nowhere and convincingly argue that was a hard-headed sales-based decision. They obviously believed it would sell enough to justify itself, but frankly outside of their own incompetence(printing waaaaay too many foreign language versions of GorkaMorka and having to pulp all that wasted stock) when has a GW release ever properly crashed and burned?

Not less successful than anticipated, mind, but full-on failed so badly that it actually lost them money? I can't think of anything. So at some stage(likely after they wring the maximum possible revenue out of Marines) they're looking at choosing between projects based on things other than how much RoI they'll get over development costs, and so I very much doubt the reason we get GSC and Deathwatch and Random Upcoming Nuliens rather than plastic Aspects or a new Guard regiment or plastic Sisters is "there's other stuff that would sell more"; it's down to the preferences and creative biases of the people making the pitches and the people judging them.

There really needs to be someone there responsible for looking after the health of the overall IP, someone who can balance the desires of the moneymen, the studio, and the fans who will occasionally tell the studio to knuckle down and get something done for reasons other than pleasing the moneymen, and tell the moneymen to dry their eyes with their stacks of Marinebucks to ensure all aspects of the IP get some time in the sun every once in a while. Otherwise all we get is this wild swing between serving the needs of the business and the whims of the designers, with big chunks of the fansbase told to be happy with their 20+year old degraded metals & half-arsed resins or else feth off.

Actually they have been fairly good at listening to fan wishes lately. Hence why I think there is a possibility there will be a new race. Heck if GW is the one putting these hints out there themselves when the fans themselves really didn't think its possible I think we should keep an open mind.

I also agree with you Yod. Sometimes brilliance and creativity is completely accidental. Oh boy do I know that lol.

GW also does stuff that doesn't make much sense.
Look at Eldrad. They have an old finecast mini. It's not too bad compared to the rest of the CWE range, and it's a unique character, so people can only ever buy one.
Then they decide to make an updated plastic kit, release it in a limited edition box, and stop there. You can still buy the old finecast one, but the new plastic one is completely OOP (there's a chance it will get released with the CWE codex but still, it's been about a year).

Everyone always argues that creating a new plastic kit takes a lot of money (to create the mould), and GW needs to sell quite a lot of that single kit to pay off the initial investment. But here we are, with an excellent mini that was only available for a short time, in a heavily discounted box set. This just doesn't make any sense to me.
So maybe they had done the new Eldrad a long time ago as part of a release that never came to light, and had to do something with it, or any other reason that's not obvious from the outside. But still, if we try to use logic to speculate on GW's releases, I just don't see how we can explain Eldrad.

Yeah there are definitely not logical things done on occasion. More so in the days of old GW than now.

Given Atia's response to someone implying that the "Slann" could be coming, that's the biggest thing that excites me.

I've always wanted to see the Old Ones (Or their cold blooded descendants), if only to watch them do battle against the Necrons. I never really felt the rivalry between the Eldar and the Necrons because despite them having fought in the War in Heaven, it just doesn't feel as personal. Bringing back Slann really ups the level of animosity. Especially as however small they make the Slann galactically, it'd be funny as gak to watch these huge wars break out in the midst of Chaos spreading across the galaxy, while the Imperium and Chaos (Or the Slann and Necrons depending on how you look at it) get caught in the crossfire of one another's galaxy wars. lol

If they go full- on space reptiles I'd love to see them somehow tie it back to the Seraphon.

In a perfect world they'd be dual functioning like the Daemons are in both 40k and Sigmar.

Which I would be quite alright with.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
There's a great scene in The Player where Tim Robbins' character explains that as a movie producer he hears pitches from EVERYONE, hundreds a year. Established directors, stars, writers, his barber, the taxi driver...

And he can say 'yes' 10 times a year, that's it. That what they have the resources for.

So the gatekeepers at GW are the same, hearing pitches for units, characters, monsters, vehicles, whole factions and whole new games from their studio, the other staff, 100s of people in stores, 1000s of fans.

And they can say yes... oh lets say 100 times a year.

So you mean some guy heard 1000s of suggestions and STILL decided to go with Primaris?
Sigh.

That's different. They came up with that one themselves!

Carlovonsexron wrote:
That's different. They came up with that one themselves!

Yup.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Not less successful than anticipated, mind, but full-on failed so badly that it actually lost them money? I can't think of anything.

Dreadfleet would like a word with you. While perhaps not an outright money-loser, it's hard to think of something they recalled from shops to reportedly be destroyed as a "success." Granted, that product qualifies as being so radically different from GW's core business that it's not wholly unexpected and could be considered a red herring. You did ask though.

Arguably the later LotR sets when the bubble burst could be considered as qualifying as failing anticipated targets, but that's probably more GW not adjusting targets for reality than "failing" in an objective sense. Didn't lose money so you could say that's not a full-on failure, but they didn't raise revenues that GW had already planned on spending which caused a kerfuffle in their finances for a bit (and arguably lead to some of the more Kirby-headed maneuvers to alienate customers).

In the main though, I agree with your points since both of those examples are outside their core lines (as much as they may have wanted LotR to be a third line). I'd be dubious that there have been substantial failures in the AoS or 40k lines.

 Krinsath wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Not less successful than anticipated, mind, but full-on failed so badly that it actually lost them money? I can't think of anything.

Dreadfleet would like a word with you. While perhaps not an outright money-loser, it's hard to think of something they recalled from shops to reportedly be destroyed as a "success." Granted, that product qualifies as being so radically different from GW's core business that it's not wholly unexpected and could be considered a red herring. You did ask though.

Arguably the later LotR sets when the bubble burst could be considered as qualifying as failing anticipated targets, but that's probably more GW not adjusting targets for reality than "failing" in an objective sense. Didn't lose money so you could say that's not a full-on failure, but they didn't raise revenues that GW had already planned on spending which caused a kerfuffle in their finances for a bit (and arguably lead to some of the more Kirby-headed maneuvers to alienate customers).

In the main though, I agree with your points since both of those examples are outside their core lines (as much as they may have wanted LotR to be a third line). I'd be dubious that there have been substantial failures in the AoS or 40k lines.

The Dark elder re-boot did not get them the expected sales and as such any overhaul like that for an existing faction is dead in the water.
They sell the largest amount of a kit in the 1st month and tottaly new stuff sells better than refreshed product.

All these things taken together lead you to the release.of.mini factions with a mostly 1 and done philosophy, I suspect this will continue and we will see further splintered factions or new factions released that will not get continued support. I guess it will be a little like the philosophy behind ccg's where every release is "The Next Big Thing" until the following months release.

Except for the fact that GW themselves said we will see more of the Kharadron someday. So once more it all comes down to sales and how much cash you bring in. The Tau refresh of its models two years ago must have done well since they are going to be launching more next year.

I think the ideal is not a complete refresh but a quasi-refresh of 1-2 kits that also add in variants. Then the rest of the release new kits. Last update we got new commanders, crisis, drones, and firewarriors.

I think complete refreshes are mostly dead in the water. At best you can hope for partial refreshes over time.

So like I said it all depends on the circumstances of the army. DE do not sell well. They are probably in the mid to just low tier sales wise I would guess simply due to a lack of support shown to them. That said I do want to see some new kits for them eventually.