So if you could alter any three existing rules in your primary army, which ones would you change?

The rules are simple:
- No point costs in any way
- No inventing new models or completely rewriting dataslates
- No inventing new weapons
- Adding a new rule or wear gear option to an existing unit is fair game
- Adding an existing dataslate (from index or other codices) to your army is fine, too (from index or other codices)

My primary army is orks, and I would like to change:
1. KFF goes to "All <Clan> units within 6" have a 5++ save. If the unit had 10 or less models at the beginning of the phase, add 1 to its saving throws. If the big mek is embarked on a transport, the transport has a 4++ save." Back to 5th edition KFF (except Poland).
2. Models on warbikes get the "Exhaust Cloud" rule: "When targeting this unit in the shooting phase, enemy models must subtract 1 from their hit rolls." - why did they remove it in first place?
3. Power klaws deal d6 damage instead of d3 - because our primary source of anti-tank actually needs to be able to kill tanks.

For Death Guard:
1. Inexorable Advance applies to INFANTRY, HELLBRUTES and DAEMON ENGINES. It's kind of their theme.
2. Chaos Lord, Sorcerer and Possessed gain +1T and Disgustingly Resilient. Because we need more career choices for plague marines.
3. Lord of Corruption gets grenades and access to combi-weapons. Somehow the biggest and baddest marine in the army forgot his grenades at home and didn't bother to bring as much as a bolt pistol.

Deahstrike Missile Launcher.

From it's current hot useless mess of random Mortal Wounds, I'd just give its weapon regular stats:

Heavy 4D6, S12 AP-3, Damage: 3

Friendly and enemy units within 3" of the target suffers 1 D6 S10 AP-2 Damage 2 hits.

I'd also add new rule.
"T minus....Arrrgh!"
If a Deathstrike Missile Launcher looses it's final wound before launching it's Deathstrike Missile, the vehicles automatically explodes. Do not roll a D6.

Orks :

1) All vehicles (except Battlewagon) get the Ramshackle special rule.
2) Flash Gitz are never affected by negative to-hit modifiers
3) Orks get a 6+++ army wide (except VEHICLES) to match fluff

Thousand Sons :

1) Scarabs Occult terminators move 5"
2) All Is Dust works against everything (not just damage 1)
3) Squads of 5 Rubric can take a Soulreaper Cannon

Nurgle lords, sorcerers and possessed all get disgustingly resilient, access to nurgle weapons and T5. No reason for them not to other than the GW legal team.

Sisters of Battle

1. Jump Pack Option for Canoness - allows deep strike - we have the models (Celestine's twins) and it gives an interesting option for SOB players
2. Change Imagifier from AOF generator to a +2 Bonus to Deny the Witch for SOB models within 6" - fluffy and actually useful
3. Something to make Exorcists work or AOFs scale better.

For GK I'd like to see the following:

Max casting of any psychic ability (except smite) limted to 3,

Any vehicle can have the same heavy weapons as a dreadknight when replacing other heavy weapons,

TDA gains the ability to move and shoot heavy weapons without a to hit penalty.

I'm not trying to make my army OP just competitive.

Orks:

- Open topped vehicles allow to move, disenbark and charge
- Warbikes add +1 to their save or +2 if they advanced in the previous turn, their dakkaguns (and also big shootas) get AP-1
- Big meks give the re-roll on failed to hit rolls of 1s for friendly units within 6-9''

Space Wolves

- A stratagem that allows to fight twice in the same turn against the same target
- Drop pods can carry a single dread or 5 wulfen
- Fenrisian wolves don't take morale tests if there is at least a model on a thunderwolf within 6''

Drukhari

- Bloodbrides can take all the melee weapons they want
- Coven units are scary: they give +1 on leadership rolls for enemy units within 9''
- Talos strikes with S10 AP-3 DamageD3 in close combat

 MinscS2 wrote:
Deahstrike Missile Launcher.

From it's current hot useless mess of random Mortal Wounds, I'd just give its weapon regular stats:

Heavy 4D6, S12 AP-3, Damage: 3

Friendly and enemy units within 3" of the target suffers 1 D6 S10 AP-2 Damage 2 hits.

I'd also add new rule.
"T minus....Arrrgh!"
If a Deathstrike Missile Launcher looses it's final wound before launching it's Deathstrike Missile, the vehicles automatically explodes. Do not roll a D6.

I like it

Tzeentch Daemons:


Lords of Change and Kairos have the Magnus smite. 1d6 Damage, 2d6 on a 12+

Locus of Tzeentch instead provides a passive bonus to increase casting range of psychic powers by 6" for lesser daemons, 12" for greater daemons.

Flickering Fire added as a cantrip. Generic psychic power unaffected by the matched play rules limiting psychic powers, on a 7+ it deals a mortal wound, on a 12+ it deals d3 mortal wounds.

Custodes:


Allarus Terminators are given +1T or +1 to their INV Save. Either option is fine.

Wardens have a 5+ FNP against all damage, rather than a 6+.

Remove variable weapon damage. Axes become flat 3, etc.

I'd like all cc WE units to get Blood for the Blood God, it's make Terminators far more threatening.

Dark Eldar:

-Mobility options for Haemonculi, Archons, Succubi. I'm thinking Bike/Scourge Wings for an Archon, Bike/Hoverboard for Succubus, and some kind of dark abeyant style contraption for the haemonculus would be awesome. (Haemonculus I think would be more likely to need something that makes him more of a close combat threat, like a Techmarine's servo-harness, since Haemonculi aren't exactly supposed to be fast)

-Adjust the minimum unit sizes of several units to allow them to act as "bodyguards" and fit into transports with our on-foot HQs. I'm thinking specifically of Trueborn, Wracks, Bloodbrides and Incubi, putting them at a min unit size of 4 rather than 5. it really sucks to have the current situation where all our HQs have to either have a completely dedicated transport all to themselves, or they have to be in with a unit of 9 in a Raider where almost all our units unlock extra weapons at a 10-man squad.

-Make Dark Eldar Fast Again! or as a certain politician might put on a pointy kabalite warrior hat, MDEFA! it's a nice touch that GW represented the old fluff that dark eldar are physically stronger/faster than their craftworld kin by giving them an extra inch of movement on their infantry, but their vehicles, which are specifically described as completely stripped-down versions of the Craftworld designs, built with next to no armor to allow for speed, speed, and nothing but speed....are slower. A craftworld eldar main battle tank moves 2" faster than a stripped down dark eldar drag racer piloted by semi-suicidal psychopaths? That ain't right. I'd like to see either 18" movement on Raiders and 20" movement on Venoms, or at the very least an option to "kick into high gear" and give their vehicles something like automatic 10" on an Advance. I feel like among all the factions, Dark Eldar don't make too many demands - we accept that we're not going to be the strongest, or the best at melee, or the best at shooting, but the one thing I think I feel justified in wanting is to be the fastest.

Death Guard

Plague Marines get True Grit

Grenades are assault weapons

Someone other than Typhus gets his poxwalker buffs

I like your Inexorable advance going to Deamon Engines too.

1. Gauss automatically wounds on a hit roll of 6+.

2. MWBD does not confer a bonus to advance rolls, and is declared at the end of the movement phase so you can use it on deep strikers.

3. Once per battle round, you may declare Emergency Protocols when a unit is completely destroyed. That unit may immediately roll Reanimation Protocols.

I play Black Legion.

1. Legion traits apply to all models, not just infantry / bikers / helbrutes.

2. Terminators can be taken as troops.

3. Units can disembark at the end of a transport's movement.

For 7th ed Chaos:

-Chaos Plasma Weapons have Gets Really Hot: Plasma weapons wielded by a Codex: Chaos Space Marines Unit (including Ectoplasma) fire an extra shot beyond what their profile indicates; for example, a Chaos Plasma Rifle would fire two shots at 24" and three shots at 12". However, every roll of 1 would count as two rolls of 1, meaning twice as many saves or twice as many potential HP lost. If you can reroll a 1, you still are treated as having rolled a single 1 after the fact. This is a reference to how in 2nd ed, Gets Hot! was exclusive to Chaos, in exchange for allowing them to fire Plasma every turn instead of every other turn. Fluffwise, the Imperials modified Heresy-era Plasma to have burst limiters and advanced cooldown, while the Traitor Legions didn't (and you could argue that they Reaver-teched their Plasma, overclocking it to an insane level. Gamewise, it gives Chaos better midfield distribution throughout their army.
-You can take 1-3 Goliaths (deployed as separate units) from Codex: Genestealer Cults as a Fast Attack choice. They may take wargear options from the Chaos Space Marines vehicle armory. This gives Chaos a discount "throwaway transport" that can substitute as their Land Speeder/Attack Bike equivalent in a pinch. They still maintain access to the Cache of Demolition Charges upgrade if you're feeling cheeky. Sadly, Destroyer Blades are useless since they cannot Tank Shock.
-The Defiler gains Power of the Machine Spirit, and can fire its Battle Cannon as an Ordnance Barrage weapon. [i]The Defiler has a lot of guns but sadly is overpriced and cannot effectively wield them due to the Battle Cannon being Ordnance. PoTMS fixes this, as it allows the Defiler to shoot one unit and assault another like a budget Knight. Barrage further solidifies its niche, since Chaos lacks any Barrage weapons in their codex, and the Defiler had the option in the Pete Haines codex.

PS: For "no inventing new models," what about old out-of-print models or Forgeworld rules that didn't have corresponding models or demanded heavy conversion (like Looted Wagons)?

I'm sure it's already been mentioned, Chapter/Legion tactics army wide, all units.

I might actually field Iron Warriors tanks then.

Maybe.

CWE:

-Battle focus includes removing the penalty for heavy weapons (not that it affects many units, but still).

-Wraithknights get their 5+ FNP back; they’re far too expensive with too little defense for their cost.

-Fix Autarchs back to their index weapon options

Eldar:

+Return Farseers to the status of genuine warrior mages and not the pale, shell of a joke of warrior they are now...
+Give Rune weapons at least -1 save modifier, the 2+ to wound is useless against almost any model with a decent save, despite being an incredibly powerful weapon...
+Rewrite/cost the Avatar to be an actual effective unit on par with the power level it should be.

Chaos Space Marines:

+Some kind of relics or stratagems which actually apply to 'Renegade' chapters.
+Return Chaos terminators to the days when they could not teleport, and price them accordingly for losing this ability.

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
CWE:

-Battle focus includes removing the penalty for heavy weapons (not that it affects many units, but still).

This is fine on Guardian Defenders and Windriders, but would be would be kinda stupid on Rangers and would make Warwalkers, who are already better than Vypers, even better.

As for the Autarch-index-wargear, this doesn't need a change per se, as Codex-Autarchs can already take wargear from the Index. A clarification would be nice though, but it's not gonna happen since GW seems adamant on it's ludicrous "no model no rules"-approach in 8th Ed.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
Eldar:

+Return Farseers to the status of genuine warrior mages and not the pale, shell of a joke of warrior they are now...

"Return"?

This might be a 2:nd Ed. thing, but I've played Eldar since the 3:d Ed. codex and Farseers have never been "warrior mages".
They've always had 2 attacks that wound on 2+ but with no armor penetration.

Now in 8th they have... 2 attacks that wound on 2+, with no armor penetration.
(They lost 1 attack on the charge but so did almost everything.)

If anything they are better fighters now in 8th than ever, as they now wound vehicles on 2+ in melee as well (better than having Strength 9), and do D3 Damage to stuff who fail their save. Essentially they finally have 'real' force weapons.

 MinscS2 wrote:

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
CWE:

-Battle focus includes removing the penalty for heavy weapons (not that it affects many units, but still).

This is fine on Guardian Defenders and Windriders, but would be would be kinda stupid on Rangers and would make Warwalkers, who are already better than Vypers, even better.

I wouldn’t be sad if BF was taken from war walkers, as much as I like them. And it’d be fine on rangers, fits the fluff and isn’t horribly powerful.

Tyranids changes from Marmatag

1. Would increase the wounds characteristic of the Swarmlord to 18, and his toughness by 1. Give him a buff that all nearby Tyranids add 1 to hit rolls in melee. I would also give him a psychic profile that scales like Magnus. +2/+1/0 for psychic tests. I mean the dude is 300 points, he should be better.

2. Give the Tervigon a buff, so that nearby Gaunts - Hormagaunts and Termagants - have a 5++ invulnerable save, and also give him the ability to replenish Hormagaunt squads. He would need a 4++ invulnerable save, too, because right now this guy is just a walking target.

3. Boost all of our monstrous creatures saves to 2+ and give them a 5++ against shooting. Give them the same rule as leman russ so that they can still shoot twice if they move under 6" rather than staying perfectly still.

 Marmatag wrote:
1. Would increase the wounds characteristic of the Swarmlord to 18, and his toughness by 1. Give him a buff that all nearby Tyranids add 1 to hit rolls in melee. I would also give him a psychic profile that scales like Magnus. +2/+1/0 for psychic tests. I mean the dude is 300 points, he should be better.

For 300 points that would be insane, he would become auto-include to the point of calling people stupid at the table for not having him.

"You didn't take the Swarmlord?"

"No, this is my Tyranid Prime army, he doesn't fit the theme!"

"Did you eat paint as a child?"

Fixing the deathwatch without changing points.... hmmm.....

I honestly have no idea. Kill Teams need to function as mixed units for the army to have any real purpose other than being an overpriced MEQ, but mixed teams have no real efficient delivery systems. They're also relatively short ranged and fragile, meaning that while they can certainly obliterate an area if they're delivered, they're kind of stuck in that area and struggle to get back into the fight.

They need to be able to alpha strike if they're going to be as absurdly glass cannon as they are, but right now most of their stuff has a turn lag for your opponent to respond to and that's more than enough time to wipe them off the board. :(

the_scotsman wrote:
Dark Eldar: I feel like among all the factions, Dark Eldar don't make too many demands - we accept that we're not going to be the strongest, or the best at melee, or the best at shooting, but the one thing I think I feel justified in wanting is to be the fastest.

THIS so much this.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
1. Would increase the wounds characteristic of the Swarmlord to 18, and his toughness by 1. Give him a buff that all nearby Tyranids add 1 to hit rolls in melee. I would also give him a psychic profile that scales like Magnus. +2/+1/0 for psychic tests. I mean the dude is 300 points, he should be better.

For 300 points that would be insane, he would become auto-include to the point of calling people stupid at the table for not having him.

"You didn't take the Swarmlord?"

"No, this is my Tyranid Prime army, he doesn't fit the theme!"

"Did you eat paint as a child?"

What's wrong with him being good? He is weak for his cost.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters of Battle

1. Jump Pack Option for Canoness - allows deep strike - we have the models (Celestine's twins) and it gives an interesting option for SOB players
2. Change Imagifier from AOF generator to a +2 Bonus to Deny the Witch for SOB models within 6" - fluffy and actually useful
3. Something to make Exorcists work or AOFs scale better.

All good options. My take:

1. Jump pack Canoness. Adds a huge range of tactical options. The army clearly has the technology and plenty of other HQs can take them. What, it's beneath her dignity to fly around being useful?

2. AoFs must scale better. I'd say one 2+ AoF with unlimited range per turn per pure Sisters detachment. As a part of this, I'd give up Celestine's 6 inch automatic AoF to reduce her popularity outside of Sisters lists. Still okay with Imagifiers at 4+ for the current cost... you can have both AoFs and CPs in your Brigade that way.

3. Exorcists go back to 1d6 damage OR receive the Canoness buff OR get AoFs OR do mortal wounds... something to make them worth the cost.

Codex Space marines

Why did you have to limit it to just 3 take more changes than that.

1. Chaptor tactics apply to all units period.

2. Propper tanks (predator, vidicator, sicarans) to be 2+ save and no -1 to hit atleast for main weapons. LR T9 to distinguish them.

3 Tac squads to grant +1 CP in marine only battle forged armies.

CWE Eldar

1) Change Battle Focus back to its 7th incarnation

2) Make Swooping Hawks less sporting and chuck the full complement of grenades based on their unit size not the targets

3) A version of the Fire Prism strategy for Nightspinners

Ice_can wrote:
Codex Space marines

Why did you have to limit it to just 3 take more changes than that.

1. Chaptor tactics apply to all units period.

2. Propper tanks (predator, vidicator, sicarans) to be 2+ save and no -1 to hit atleast for main weapons. LR T9 to distinguish them.

3 Tac squads to grant +1 CP in marine only battle forged armies.

So, to combat the brokenness of 3 50-point units and 2 30-point units granting 3CP, you'd like a single 65-point unit to grant 1CP...on top of also being a troop unit presumably?

Don't get me wrong, I dislike the way CPs are awarded in general (if I had my way, kids these days would have to re-learn percentages! if your army is X% or more troops by point value, you get Y CPs. Math is not so hard that we need to create an entirely broken system) but I think with this you're not so much fixing a problem as sending a spider to swallow a fly. If 65 points of marines get you 1cp, how many does a squad of custodes get you? 1CP per custodes model you put on the table?

It's actually more to give them a reason to ever be placed on the table as currently they don't have one cost them however you like they would atleast add something to the army. And its only within a pure marine army not as part of soup bs.

Personally I would rip the CP system up and actually design it to function as a punishment for souping and hording up as those forces are notoriously impossible to command effectively.

But that is apparently anti guard, anti fluff and anti any old excusse that people can find.

Simply put you should loose CP's per detachment with the only exception being the auxiliary support detachment not costing CP's but being excluded from using strats or unlocking anything from their parent codex.

 Marmatag wrote:
What's wrong with him being good? He is weak for his cost.

I agree, he is currently a bit weak for his cost.

I think those changes would be a wild over-correction.

You would almost be making him the equivalent of a Primarch for 150 points less.

In some ways, you're making him better than a Primarch, they don't have T8, they do have degrading profiles.

And honestly, the +1 to hit for all Tyranids by itself is enough to consider including him in any Tyranid army.

Sorry, this is totally tangent, though, it's your wish list, wish away!

Adeptus Custodes

1. Aegis of the Emperor applies to all Custodes units, including vehicles such as the Land Raider and Caladius tank.

2. Sister of Silence Prosecutors, Vigilators and Witchseekers are added to the Custodes Codex as Troop choices.

3. All Custodes vehicles and dreadnoughts receive the Power of the Machine Spirit ability.


Grey Knights

1. Grey Knight HQ's lose the Rites of Banishment rule.

2. All Grey Knights gain: Improved Psychic Focus: In Matched Play, Grey Knight armies may attempt to manifest any Psychic power besides Smite up to three times per turn instead of once.

3. Grey Knight Terminators and Paladins upgrade to Gravis Armor, receiving +1 Wound and +1 Toughness.

Ice_can wrote:
It's actually more to give them a reason to ever be placed on the table as currently they don't have one cost them however you like they would atleast add something to the army. And its only within a pure marine army not as part of soup bs.

Personally I would rip the CP system up and actually design it to function as a punishment for souping and hording up as those forces are notoriously impossible to command effectively.

But that is apparently anti guard, anti fluff and anti any old excusse that people can find.

Simply put you should loose CP's per detachment with the only exception being the auxiliary support detachment not costing CP's but being excluded from using strats or unlocking anything from their parent codex.

Sure. but you're criticizing a system where Guard gets 3cp for 210 points of models (bare minimum guard battalion) and saying that marines should be able to get 6cp for 315 points (bare minimum marine battalion, at least to my knowledge).

You're proposing a fix to a broken thing that is "create an even more broken thing".

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
What's wrong with him being good? He is weak for his cost.

I agree, he is currently a bit weak for his cost.

I think those changes would be a wild over-correction.

You would almost be making him the equivalent of a Primarch for 150 points less.

In some ways, you're making him better than a Primarch, they don't have T8, they do have degrading profiles.

And honestly, the +1 to hit for all Tyranids by itself is enough to consider including him in any Tyranid army.

Sorry, this is totally tangent, though, it's your wish list, wish away!

Yay! I'll throw a penny in the fountain for both of us!

They said no price reductions. The easiest solution would be to just drop his cost by 70 points.

Eldar/Ynnari

-Introduce a non named Ynnari HQ who allows a more limited form of Soul Burst (maybe just one SB per turn rather than 1 of each action per turn). I enjoy playing Ynnari, I don't enjoy named characters and I acknowledge that Soul Burst is too good as it stands.

-Stratagem to add Vyper/Windrider interaction, something like if a unit of Windriders and Vyper target the same unit ignores cover or re-rolls failed to hit rolls. Nothing concrete here, just a way to take 2 fairly under utilized units and create some pairing bonuses for them to make them both more common.

I've only got those 2 and right now I'm really pleased with Chaos so I don't have much in the way of suggestions there.

Orks

Assault Ramps upgrade allow Orks to assault out of the vehicle even if the vehicle moved.

Orks ignore ranged penalties due to not even aiming anyway. The 2 or so shots are the ones with a chance to hit while 3 others went flying wide.

Cybork upgrade gives 5++ invulnerable save.

For orks:

Give characters and elite infantry units gear options to improve BS/ignore shooting penalties (gitfinda) and better survivability ('eavy armor, cybork bodies)

Allow units to add boys as ablative wounds for stuff like lootas so they have better survivability options other than riding in vehicles

Increase attack/WS on ork vehicles either naturally or through gear addons, and increase volume of dakka on vehicle weapons. If they're going to be this expensive, let them have a more noticeable impact on the board

For AdMech:
Give Skitarii infantry special movement rules again to match their fluff/past rules.

Give servitors a purpose: options to take only cheap, small guns, or ability to repair other units? I want them to at least do something that isn't strictly inferior to everything else in the codex.

the_scotsman wrote:

-Adjust the minimum unit sizes of several units to allow them to act as "bodyguards" and fit into transports with our on-foot HQs. I'm thinking specifically of Trueborn, Wracks, Bloodbrides and Incubi, putting them at a min unit size of 4 rather than 5. it really sucks to have the current situation where all our HQs have to either have a completely dedicated transport all to themselves, or they have to be in with a unit of 9 in a Raider where almost all our units unlock extra weapons at a 10-man squad.

That's a good point. But I wouldn't change the minimum size of the units, I'd increase the transport capacity of venoms and raiders making them 6 and 12 instead of 5 and 10.

Ice_can wrote:Codex Space marines

Why did you have to limit it to just 3 take more changes than that.

1. Chapter tactics apply to all units period.

This is first and foremost.

2. ATSKNF simply make them immune to morale again. Space marines don't run off the field.

3. Primaris can ride in normal transports, but take 2 slots.

Not sure "three changes, no points adjustments, no new units" is helpful. Of my armies Marines, Corsairs, and Inquisitorial forces need a pretty thorough rewrite, and the AdMech and the Custodes really just need the next Imperial Armour book to come out and make them less one-dimensional.

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:


2. ATSKNF simply make them immune to morale again. Space marines don't run off the field.

3. Primaris can ride in normal transports, but take 2 slots.

CSM could use fearless, at least on Cult troops again.

Also, your avatar name is filthy xenos scum and you know it.

Death gaurd
1- Everything with the death gaurd keywords gets DR
2- All characters get access to all weapon options that are not unique
3- deamon princes can take plague spewers at the same cost as a terminator can

 Blackie wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

-Adjust the minimum unit sizes of several units to allow them to act as "bodyguards" and fit into transports with our on-foot HQs. I'm thinking specifically of Trueborn, Wracks, Bloodbrides and Incubi, putting them at a min unit size of 4 rather than 5. it really sucks to have the current situation where all our HQs have to either have a completely dedicated transport all to themselves, or they have to be in with a unit of 9 in a Raider where almost all our units unlock extra weapons at a 10-man squad.

That's a good point. But I wouldn't change the minimum size of the units, I'd increase the transport capacity of venoms and raiders making them 6 and 12 instead of 5 and 10.

Either or. I worry that with both buffs I want Raiders might be a bit of a problem, because I think at the moment they're quite good as a transport. I can live with them being multiples of five if I at least have some way to slot my HQs in there.

At present moment there's little reason to consider trueborns/bloodbrides at all, I figure lowering the unit size and maybe giving them some kind of bodyguard rule would make them better.

Actually, I think it might be a neat idea to give Dark Eldar auras that work in the reverse of every other armies, in the same vein as the Court models currently have. Trueborn get a reroll 1s to hit aura near an archon. Bloodbrides get a full reroll near a succubus. Call it a "near the guy who's paying you" bonus.

3 things (and yes these will be things that don't bother most people but would make my life easier)

1) Change Steel Behemoth so that it doesn't let you overwatch within 1" of enemy units by literally adding "IN THE SHOOTING PHASE" to anywhere in the rule.

2) Condense all the superheavy tank entries into 2: Turreted (Hellhammer, Baneblade) and Non-Turreted (Stormlord, Shadowsword, Stormsword, etc) and just make the weapons have a cost. Split the transports off into a 3rd bracket if one must, but presumably the transport capacity could be a paid upgrade.

3) Allow a superheavy to gain the Character rule if taken in the full 3-tank Superheavy Detachment, like Knights gained in Chapter Approved, with the intent of allowing a company commander tank.

1) Officers, Sergeants, and Tempestors in Guard armies get Lasguns, default.

2) Heavy Weapon Teams become Move or Fire for their heavy weapon. No -1 to Hits, strictly you do or you don't. They'll still have Pistols or Lasguns to fire with but that's it.

3) Rule called "Scars of the Heresy": Command Points generated by a Guard Detachment can't be used for Marines, Marines can't be used by Guard. Regimental or Chapter Tactics require a mono-army, no Allied bits of Guard or Marines or whatever. You can have mixed CTs or Regimental provided you have no non-Marine or non-Guard entities in your army.

Death Guard:

1. DR is rolled after being wounded but before random wounds are rolled. The same would apply to any unit in the game that has a similar FNP ability.
2. Everything in the codex gets DR.
3. --

There isn't a third as I am otherwise happy with the codex.

 Kanluwen wrote:
3) Rule called "Scars of the Heresy": Command Points generated by a Guard Detachment can't be used for Marines, Marines can't be used by Guard. Regimental or Chapter Tactics require a mono-army, no Allied bits of Guard or Marines or whatever. You can have mixed CTs or Regimental provided you have no non-Marine or non-Guard entities in your army.

God love ya sir, keep fighting that soup wave, I'm sure GW will tire of making money from it soon, just keep pluggin!

 mrhappyface wrote:
I'd like all cc WE units to get Blood for the Blood God, it's make Terminators far more threatening.

Terminatos, possessed and lords would be monsters!

I'd also like it if all WE units could advance and charge.

Black Templar HQs should just be able to deny psychic abilities as a psyker does. The command point option is neat, but at once a phase, it makes it a little tougher. HQs being able to do it, seems pretty fluffy. Or at least give Black Templar units the ability to deny a psychic power if they are being targeted by the power. This would be usable once per turn per unit.

I will also second the option someone else gave Drukhari to give HQs wings or bikes, or board access. They took away the Hellion HQ, so may as well let us take a Succubus on a board.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
Eldar:

+Return Farseers to the status of genuine warrior mages and not the pale, shell of a joke of warrior they are now...

"Return"?

This might be a 2:nd Ed. thing, but I've played Eldar since the 3:d Ed. codex and Farseers have never been "warrior mages".
They've always had 2 attacks that wound on 2+ but with no armor penetration.

Now in 8th they have... 2 attacks that wound on 2+, with no armor penetration.
(They lost 1 attack on the charge but so did almost everything.)

If anything they are better fighters now in 8th than ever, as they now wound vehicles on 2+ in melee as well (better than having Strength 9), and do D3 Damage to stuff who fail their save. Essentially they finally have 'real' force weapons.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
PS: For "no inventing new models," what about old out-of-print models or Forgeworld rules that didn't have corresponding models or demanded heavy conversion (like Looted Wagons)?

Please don't. This would just turn into the suggested rules forum with a bunch of unit wishlisting then. The idea is that everybody gets to tweak the three things that he wants to change about his current codex/index, not to write datasheets from scratch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:
Why did you have to limit it to just 3 take more changes than that.

Because it's supposed to be fun and not a re-write every codex

Just pick the top three things that you want to change. And no wishing for more wishes


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Not sure "three changes, no points adjustments, no new units" is helpful. Of my armies Marines, Corsairs, and Inquisitorial forces need a pretty thorough rewrite, and the AdMech and the Custodes really just need the next Imperial Armour book to come out and make them less one-dimensional.

It's not supposed to be helpful. It's supposed to show what people think are the three biggest problems of their army and how they would fix them.

Necrons:
1. Allow the Monolith to pull infantry units from the battlefield through the Eternity Gate.
2. Add to all Gauss weapons the ability for +1 Damage on wound rolls of 6+.
3. Resurrection Orb to allow destroyed units to make RP rolls once per game.

Custodes:

Allarus Custodes get +1 Invul.
All units in the codex have aegis of the emperor (why do custodes not get to apply their "chapter tactics" to dreads?)
All Custodes may natively deep strike.


Space Marines:
Repulsor Tanks can deep strike (I seem to recall one of the novels indicating them dropping from orbit it's just such a fun idea)
Chapter tactics appy to everything just like the later codices.
Imperial fists CT is changes to add -1 AP to all attacks. making them effectively good vs cover but also armor crackers par exellance. (I don't even play Imp Fists)

Grey Knights:
..... just rewrite the codex.. please

BrianDavion wrote:
Custodes:

Allarus Custodes get +1 Invul.
All units in the codex have aegis of the emperor (why do custodes not get to apply their "chapter tactics" to dreads?)
All Custodes may natively deep strike.


Space Marines:
Repulsor Tanks can deep strike (I seem to recall one of the novels indicating them dropping from orbit it's just such a fun idea)
Chapter tactics appy to everything just like the later codices.
Imperial fists CT is changes to add -1 AP to all attacks. making them effectively good vs cover but also armor crackers par exellance. (I don't even play Imp Fists)

Grey Knights:
..... just rewrite the codex.. please

That was dark imperium, good book

For me it would be removing a lot of the redundant leadership rules from dark angels

Sisters:
1. Fix AoF scaling. Every unit generates an AoF on a 5+, a canonness gives a reroll for AoF within 6". Imagifers no longer give an AoF on a reroll, but when one unit uses a AoF within 6", it gets an amplified act, such as 1d3 models back/3 wounds healed, +1 to wound in melee (bonus fight), +2" movement (bonus move), ignore cover (bonus shooting). Army wide AoF would be the same as it currently is.

2. Shield of Faith save changes from an invulerable to a FNP. With the current AP rules, I usually still have an armor save, even after AP, this would make the rule seem useful again.

3. Sister's deny the witch. Change it from the current rule, to a minus 1d3/1d6 on one power that targets the unit. This keeps it from stepping too much on the SoS bailiwick, but might actually stop a power at some point.

I like it less, but as an alternative, just make sisters immune to any power with a base activation of 5 or less. This brings back the old immunity they had to minor powers.


Eldar:

1. Allow units with battle focus to charge after advancing.

2. Change witch blades and singing spears to D;1d3

3. Allow grav tanks to be bought in squadrons again, like Russes.

 Marmatag wrote:
Tyranids changes from Marmatag

1. Would increase the wounds characteristic of the Swarmlord to 18, and his toughness by 1. Give him a buff that all nearby Tyranids add 1 to hit rolls in melee. I would also give him a psychic profile that scales like Magnus. +2/+1/0 for psychic tests. I mean the dude is 300 points, he should be better.

2. Give the Tervigon a buff, so that nearby Gaunts - Hormagaunts and Termagants - have a 5++ invulnerable save, and also give him the ability to replenish Hormagaunt squads. He would need a 4++ invulnerable save, too, because right now this guy is just a walking target.

3. Boost all of our monstrous creatures saves to 2+ and give them a 5++ against shooting. Give them the same rule as leman russ so that they can still shoot twice if they move under 6" rather than staying perfectly still.

This is why Dakka shouldn't write rules.

I don't play orks, but I would like to see orks armed with assault, rapidfire, and pistols always hit on 5+ in the shooting phase.

Tyranids.

1- Maleceptor. Give it Warp Field and increase the range of Psychic Overload to 24".

2- Tyrannocites can carry multiple units like all transports.

3- Zoanthrope units inflict D3 mortal wounds for each Zoanthrope in the unit when manifesting Smite.

For my armies:
Dark Angels:
1: Make plasma weapons get some kind of 4+ roll to ignore the "Gets Hot" type thing. DA are the masters of plasma as reflected in their Weapons from the Dark Age stratagem, so it seems like they of all Marines would know how to use them safely. Maybe just roll this into the stratagem so that when using it, you get a 4+ to ignore the auto-killing of a model.
2: Add something to allow Deathwing to reroll all charges after teleporting in. This would make Deathwing Knights a true threat without them having to ride in an expensive Land Raider, and would increase the threat of regular Deathwing as well.
3: Give Ravenwing a 6++ jink save even if they don't advance (but they do have to move to get it). This could then increase to 4++ after advancing. Show how Ravenwing are the true bike masters of the Astartes (suck on that, White Scars! )!
Chaos Space Marines:
1: Expand the Legion Traits to include all walkers, not just Helbrutes. This would benefit the Forgefiend and Maulerfiend, but like regular Marines the tanks would still not benefit. Kind of a middle ground between giving it to everyone (like Eldar did), and the current selection which is garbage.
2: Allow non-Khorne Daemon Princes to cast 2 powers in a turn, or at least to deny 2 powers. Also, give Khorne Princes +2 attacks instead of +1 as that would compensate them better for the lack of psychic powers.
3: Give non-vehicle Daemonic units that have a Chaos Mark (like Possessed, Warp Talons, and Princes) the relevant abilities from Codex: Chaos Daemons. So Nurgle gets Disgustingly Resilient, Khorne gets Unstoppable Ferocity, etc.
Tau Empire:
1: Make Railguns, or at least Longstrike's railgun, be 2d6 damage on a Wound roll of 6. These things should be able to potentially one-shot an enemy tank for their points cost.
2: Add a Stratagem that allows a Tau unit (perhaps only infantry or Crisis suits) the ability to fire twice (for 2 CP or something). Maybe add a 1CP stratagem to do the same for a Stormsurge with its anchors deployed.
3: Make the Missile Pod get 3 or even 4 shots, and add more shots to the High-Yield Missile Pod. Tau shouldn't have to pay so much for a ghetto Autocannon.

 Nym wrote:
Orks :

1) All vehicles (except Battlewagon) get the Ramshackle special rule.
2) Flash Gitz are never affected by negative to-hit modifiers
3) Orks get a 6+++ army wide (except VEHICLES) to match fluff

Thousand Sons :

1) Scarabs Occult terminators move 5"
2) All Is Dust works against everything (not just damage 1)
3) Squads of 5 Rubric can take a Soulreaper Cannon

So you just want 2+/4++ Thousand Sons, and 1+/4++ Scarab Occult? Why would they need a rule for that, just change their saves.

As for me...

Nurgle Daemons:

1) Beasts of Nurgle get a 12" move (or at least 10" or something! They move 6 damn inches a turn!).
2) GUO is T8 and probably some extra wounds.
3) Some shooting options.

Dark Angels: Give obj sec (whatevs it's called now) to ravenwing bike squad/deathwing terminator squad if Sammael/Belial is your Warlord as appropriate. Or make 'em troops instead.

Freaking teleport homers for ravenwing. Like seriously SMDH

Deepstrike for normal dread/ven dread. Maybe add it to that stratagem that makes certain units deathwing.

Sisters of Battle:

1. New Cannoness Options: Jump Pack, Blessed Book (May Deny the Witch once per Psychic Phase with a +1 to roll), Sacred Scroll (Reroll all failed attempts to gain Acts of Faith)
2. Imagifiers grant Act of Faith on a 3+
3. Exorcist Missile Launcher is Heavy 4, Damage 3

Eldar:
Avatar of Khaine - Blood Runs: The Avatar of Khaine can Advance and charge in the same turn. In addition, all AELDARI units within 12" of the Avatar of Khaine may re-roll failed wound rolls on a turn in which it (The Avatar of Khaine) successfully charges.

Alternatively, give the Avatar of Khaine a rule that gives him additional abilities for having a specific unit of aspect warriors or Phoenix Lord in range, with different buffs for each aspect, all stacking with one another. But I'm not sure that would fall under the purview of this thread, since it'd essentially function as a multitude of special rules.

Striking Scorpions - Scorpion Chainsword: A model may make an additional attack with this weapon for every 5 enemy models in combat with its unit.

Wraithlords gain Implaccable

Inquistion
It's impossible to come close to fixing their problems with three rules.

 Jidmah wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Not sure "three changes, no points adjustments, no new units" is helpful. Of my armies Marines, Corsairs, and Inquisitorial forces need a pretty thorough rewrite, and the AdMech and the Custodes really just need the next Imperial Armour book to come out and make them less one-dimensional.

It's not supposed to be helpful. It's supposed to show what people think are the three biggest problems of their army and how they would fix them.

Oh. All right, then.

Marines/Deathwatch: Use the interchangeability of the model range to dump the Primaris != Marines mess; give Marine units the Primaris profile/Primaris units the Marine weapons. Pump Gravis/Terminators to 3W/3A. Bring back fire points in the Rhino. And if there were to be a fourth I'd say 4++ and Steel Behemoth as standard across all Land Raiders.

Grey Knights: In line with the Primaris/Marines merge suggested above give PAGK/Terminators Primaris-level profiles. Bring back the unique unit-specific powers from the 5e book (Astral Aim, Warpquake, that set), it won't keep the clusterf*** that is the Rule of One on an army of all psykers entirely at bay but it'd push it back some. And pump the Psilencer's Strength and damage so the infantry have access to an anti-armour ranged weapon.

AdMech/Custodes would need to rely on the loophole that "a Forge World unit with 30k but no 40k rules" isn't technically "new". AdMech are seriously wanting for mobility, hard targets, and reliable melee units, all of which the 30k units (particularly the Triarios, Thallax/Ursarax, Vultarax, Domitar, and Thanatar) would help immensely with. Custodes are too locked to one-dimensional aggro-melee builds; the experimental rules for the Caladius and the Achillius help, certainly, but bringing the Saggitarii in as a Troops unit that's capable of contributing ranged damage without being insanely expensive would be immensely helpful, as would bringing in the Gyrfalcon bikes' armament to offer some kind of intermediate step between the mass of weak shots or the pittance of powerful shots off the Dawneagle bikes. I'd also like From The Golden Light to allow non-Dreadnaught vehicles to Deep Strike; at the moment the Land Raider and the Coronus are suicidal deathtraps that force the Custodes to fight piecemeal, but if they could be played aggressively enough to keep up with the rest of the army they might actually be usable.

Orks
1) Buggies/Skorchas/etc: Change their deep strike to infiltrate. i.e. Deploy them 9" away from enemy models after deployment but before the first turn starts.
2) Kaptin Badrukk: Add this effect to the rule Flashiest Gitz: also allows friendly units of Flash Gitz to ignore all shooting modifiers.
3) Nobz: New rule Intimidation: any unit that falls back from combat with the Nob unit immediately conducts a morale check. For this morale check, add the number of models that have been slain in this unit all game, instead of only this turn.

Every faction: Give flamers range 9".

Every faction: Expand HQ so that there's always more generic hq choices then special characters.

Every faction: give veichles a -1toughness to the side and -2toughness to the rear. (with obvious exceptions like the land raider and the monolith)

Marines

Open up the armory for characters. The no model, no rules thing has restricted a lot of options for no good reason (besides GW not making a mini with them). Especially the primaris line.

Allow dreads back in drop pods again. We don’t need a fancy FW pod, just the basic one will do. On the fence about suggesting them being fully open for cargo again; grav cents would be happy with that.

Disembarking from drop pods can be within 9” of enemy units, but you may not assault on the turn you arrive. While it makes them useless for CC units, most of them DS themselves, and don’t need the pod. But it opens back up pods as a viable transport for things like melta/flamers again. With screening units being more critical in 8th, the one big drawback to pods is a lot more prevalent. But drop pod invasions are a key part of the SM lore, and should be semi-viable to play.

 Fafnir wrote:

Wraithlords gain Implaccable

Not only directed at you Fafnir, but I've seen several Eldar-players wish this, but I must ask, why?
No other "Dreadnaught" in the game can fall back and shoot by default.

A Dreadnaught with Fist and Stormbolter is 112 pts before Heavy Weapons.
A Wraithlord with Glavie and 2 Shuriken Catapults is 113 pts before Heavy Weapons.

For that one point, the Wraithlord gets:

+2" M
+1 T
+2 Wounds
+1 Ld (mostly irrelevant but still.)
Better punch in melee. (S9 AP4 Damage: D6 > S12 AP3 Damage:3)

The Dreadnaught gains Smoke Launchers (woo), and doesn't degrade. Not degrading is huge, but I'd rather pick +2M", +1T and +2 Wounds any day.

There are some units that need tweaks in the Eldar codex (for better or worse), but giving the Wraithlord the ability to fall back and shoot seems...unjustified, especially given the amount of units who can fall back and shoot in the Eldar-codex already due to <Fly> and if you really want to fall back with your Wraithlord you can, it will just cost you 2 CP.

Dark Angels:
1. Ravenwing Grenade Launchers fire 2D6 frag grenades instead of 1D6 (since they can fire 2 krak grenades, why not 2 frag?)
2. Deathwing terminators may take 2 heavy weapons per 5 terminators.
3. Land Speeder Darkshroud confers -1 Ld to enemy within 12".

CWE
1. Wraithknight may mix weapon options (so hvy wraithcannon and shield, or sun cannon/hvy wraithcannon, dual suncannon, etc)
2. Wraithlord named character that is HQ choice.
3. Iyanden warlord trait: Ghostwarden. All Iyanden wraith construct units within 6" of warlord may roll a D6 when they take a wound. On a 6, this wound is ignored. (the current warlord trait is pants, it should be wraith construct themed)

Harlequins:
- Troupe masters can get buy Skyweavers as upgrades. It gives the associated bonus (+1T, +1W, 4+ save etc.), and weapon options.
- Zephyglaives get a bonus to strength and AP on the turn they charge.
- Haywire cannons don't generate mortal wounds anymore, but they wound vehicles on 2+, and non-vehicles on 6+. Type is changed to Assault D6.

fresus wrote:
Harlequins:
- Troupe masters can get buy Skyweavers as upgrades. It gives the associated bonus (+1T, +1W, 4+ save etc.), and weapon options.
- Zephyglaives get a bonus to strength and AP on the turn they charge.
- Haywire cannons don't generate mortal wounds anymore, but they wound vehicles on 2+, and non-vehicles on 6+. Type is changed to Assault D6.

Totally agree on bike character, I even have one built. Still think the Deathjester needs a boost.

For Death Guard:

1) Lords/Sorcerers get T5 and Disgustingly Resilient; allow access to Dark Hereticus powers (might be too good because Morty, but hey TSons have Magnus and get it)

2) Allow taking Forgefield/Maulerfiend/Heldrake

3) (does this count? Not sure) Allow taking the old Death Guard Havocs from the olden days; 4 special weapon Havocs. If this doesn't count, make Inexorable Advance be like the Black Legion Trait as well; can advance and fire Rapid Fire weapons.

Necrons
1 - Tesla works on a ‘Natural 6’ and gains ‘Ignore Cover’.
* This gets rid of buff/debuff complaints on both sides of the table and offsets the AP - for models in cover.

(Stolen from AoS)
2 - ‘Resilience’ - Models Ignore AP -1 (Seraphon), or +1 save vs AP- weapons (Death)
* Without needing to adjust the current Saves, this will help will help them survive long enough to use RP while not reducing the effectiveness of higher AP weapons by the opponent.

3 - ‘Whip Coils’ - A unit with a model in Combat with a this rule cannot Retreat.
* This might make Wraiths actually playable, without changing their stats.

 bullyboy wrote:
Still think the Deathjester needs a boost.

Agreed. It's currently just a shuricannon with a useless rule. Shuricannons are so ubiquitous in the CWE/harlequin books that you can't have a unit with just that, otherwise it will be either useless or orvershadow the other options, depending on the point cost.
I suppose it could fill an anti-horde role, which Harlequins lack, with its poison rounds. It could be a shooting mode with a special rule that says "if the enemy unit is hit, roll a die for each model in the unit. For each result of X+, the unit suffers an AP0, D1 wound." Sadly similar rules aren't common in 40K, so a weapon like that would be very difficult to balance against other options, and is therefore probably not a good idea. I wished they put similar rules on some weapons (frag stuff, things that generate shrapnel or poison clouds in general, etc.) from the get-go though.

Chaos:

Exalted Champion - gains access to Jump Pack (This would be a point and power increase, but is also technically wargear.)

Warp Talons - Warpflame strike also grants reroll to charge on the turn they emerge.

Abaddon the Despoiler - New Rule, Warmaster of the Black Crusade, All Friendly Chaos units within 6' reroll 1s to hit and wound.

For Chaos Space Marines (Heretic Astartes):

#1 - Death to the False Emperor: Make it so close combat hit rolls of 6+ is an additional attack regardless of whom is being attacked: While this is very flavourful, it's easy for new players to forget because it doesn't apply all the time, and can lead to feel-bad moments for two players that pick up the game, where one is Imperial, and the other is Chaos. Yes, it's not a huge deal competitively, but I think this is a better rule if it just applies to all of Chaos' close combat attacks, regardless of whom they're attacking. I would then recommend that some Warlord Traits/Stratagems/Relics that boost the triggering of this ability, would then only apply against Imperial units.

#2 - Black Legion Chapter Tactic: Change to "Whenever a player uses a Stratagem that includes a Black Legion unit in its effect, roll a D6. On a 5+, you gain 1 Command Point.": I personally think that the Black Legion has one of the worst Chapter Tactics in the game. The +1Ld is neat, but not necessary, and the being able to advance and fire Rapid Fire as if it were Assault is useful for only a handful of units. The greatest benefactors are Chaos Bikers, which... aren't really a Black Legion staple. No, Black Legion is all about the long game, with everything goes "just as planned", and this ability gives Heretic Astartes a way to regain command points like almost all other armies, and in a flavourful way.

#3 - Chaos Familiar: Change from Heretic Astartes Psyker to <<Legion>> Psyker: This is a nerf. It mostly means that Morty can't gain access to Warptime through detachment trickery. I personally don't care for the mix-matching of stratagems, as I feels it's gaming the system too much, and doesn't represent the factions as being distinct entities. This helps to sharpen that line a little more.

And that's it! I don't think any of these are too crazy, and would mostly make things a little easier and a little more fun.

Grey Knights:

1.Increase AP on Psycanons and Psilancers

2.Can cast multiple time the same power per turn

3.Somethin like an expensive stratagem or psychic power that allows a 3D6 charge on deepstriking units

I'd give Orks (and DE for that matter) another level of <keyword> to emphasise the fact that these armies often comprise units from various factions. Keep Klan or Kabal/Cult/Coven keywords for stratagems but let have it so a Warboss gives a benefit to his boyz, whether they're Bad Moons, Snakebites or Goffs. I know no-one else would usually want to ride in a Trukk with Deffskulls or Blood Axes, but somtimes it beats hanging around the back of the battlefield. For DE it is going to be very interesting to see of they have a way around this in the Codex, because I don't really fancy having to have a different detachment for each class of spikey Elf, and even if we do, Incubi are still Billy no mates.

 Akar wrote:
Necrons

3 - ‘Whip Coils’ - A unit with a model in Combat with a this rule cannot Retreat.
* This might make Wraiths actually playable, without changing their stats.

This wouldn't be unheard of - Dark Eldar Wyches have a "on a 4+, the enemy unit cannot retreat" rule.


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 MinscS2 wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

Wraithlords gain Implaccable

Not only directed at you Fafnir, but I've seen several Eldar-players wish this, but I must ask, why?

It's a simple answer and not related to your analysis: because Wraithguard have it and it would fit the theme.

Admech:

1. If you roll the canticle that lets you reroll 1s during the shooting phase, and that unit is under the effects of the tech priest dominus aura, they get to reroll all failed hits.

2. Clarify that the Raiments of the Electromartyr activates when any unit is 1" at anytime not just when it gets canted. Also ELECTRO-PRIEST units activate that canticle on a 4+

3. Ruststalker can fight twice in the fight phase. (The only thing I can think of that would make them really good without points or new weapons. Would still probably be bad.)

Dark Angels

Belial - revise 'master of deathwing' - if Belial is selected as the warlord within a vanguard detachment, that detachment grants 2 additional Command Points.

Sammael (in either form) - revise 'master of ravenwing' - if Sammael is selected as a warlord within an outrider detachment, that detachment grants 2 additional Command Points.

Jink - All models with the keyword Ravenwing receives +5 invulnerable saves if it moved in its movement phase. The invulnerable save improves to +4 if the model has advanced in its movement phase. For the purpose of this ability, a model is considered to have moved when it is deployed and set up on the battlefield at the beginning of the game.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Tzeentch Daemons:


Lords of Change and Kairos have the Magnus smite. 1d6 Damage, 2d6 on a 12+

Locus of Tzeentch instead provides a passive bonus to increase casting range of psychic powers by 6" for lesser daemons, 12" for greater daemons.

Flickering Fire added as a cantrip. Generic psychic power unaffected by the matched play rules limiting psychic powers, on a 7+ it deals a mortal wound, on a 12+ it deals d3 mortal wounds.

Custodes:


Allarus Terminators are given +1T or +1 to their INV Save. Either option is fine.

Wardens have a 5+ FNP against all damage, rather than a 6+.

Remove variable weapon damage. Axes become flat 3, etc.

You just invalidated Magnus and the legion trait in one swoop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yarium wrote:
For Chaos Space Marines (Heretic Astartes):

#1 - Death to the False Emperor: Make it so close combat hit rolls of 6+ is an additional attack regardless of whom is being attacked: While this is very flavourful, it's easy for new players to forget because it doesn't apply all the time, and can lead to feel-bad moments for two players that pick up the game, where one is Imperial, and the other is Chaos. Yes, it's not a huge deal competitively, but I think this is a better rule if it just applies to all of Chaos' close combat attacks, regardless of whom they're attacking. I would then recommend that some Warlord Traits/Stratagems/Relics that boost the triggering of this ability, would then only apply against Imperial units.

#2 - Black Legion Chapter Tactic: Change to "Whenever a player uses a Stratagem that includes a Black Legion unit in its effect, roll a D6. On a 5+, you gain 1 Command Point.": I personally think that the Black Legion has one of the worst Chapter Tactics in the game. The +1Ld is neat, but not necessary, and the being able to advance and fire Rapid Fire as if it were Assault is useful for only a handful of units. The greatest benefactors are Chaos Bikers, which... aren't really a Black Legion staple. No, Black Legion is all about the long game, with everything goes "just as planned", and this ability gives Heretic Astartes a way to regain command points like almost all other armies, and in a flavourful way.

#3 - Chaos Familiar: Change from Heretic Astartes Psyker to <<Legion>> Psyker: This is a nerf. It mostly means that Morty can't gain access to Warptime through detachment trickery. I personally don't care for the mix-matching of stratagems, as I feels it's gaming the system too much, and doesn't represent the factions as being distinct entities. This helps to sharpen that line a little more.

And that's it! I don't think any of these are too crazy, and would mostly make things a little easier and a little more fun.

I agree with everything here except that the current BL is not so bad when you fill your list with infantry using bolters, combi-bolters, combi plasma and plasma guns. I came up with a silly list I named Plasma Legion as I was able to fit quite a few plasma guns and combi bolters into it. The trait is supposed to make BL infantry faster by letting them fire and advance. The problem is that you lose fire power doing it. Instead of changing the weapons to assault I would just make the rule that you can rapid fire after a advance move. That combined with the +1 LD would make them a decent legion.



And for my changes.

Thousand Sons

1) Magnus gets a new rule as follows : If Magnus did not move in your previous movement phase enemy units firing at him get -1 to all hit rolls and the damage of all attacks is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1. This would make him less of a auto loss when going second to a alpha strike list without empowering his offensive.

2) Exalted Sorcs get to make a shooting attack before the movement phase begins with the following profile : Heavy 1 Str 10 AP -3 and damage 1d6. This is to replicate the old silver tower rule.

3) A added rule that Asp Sorcs only damage themselves when periling and a rubric focused stratagem that increases the range of all rubric weapons by 6 inchs (this includes warpflamers).

CSM

1) BL trait buff. See above.

2) Exalted Champion gains access to the following gear options : Jump Pack or Terminator Armor.

3) Hell Drake flamer becomes 2d6 instead of 1d6.

As folks have already expressed a lot of interesting ideas for Dark Angels and I haven't noticed any T'au, let's go with my ex-army (I'm quite fond of it and may one day go back to). If something seems too strong, feel free to point it out!

1. Revisit the Markerlight table. Instead of a fixed table, give a 'pool' for players to benefit from tokens as they seem fit (all cumulative). A single <T'AU> unit cannot repeat the same option against the same enemy unit.
a. Up to 3 ML tokens on the enemy unit:
- 1 ML token allows the unit to re-roll 1s to hit in the Shooting Phase/Overwatch
- 1 ML token allows the unit to add +1 to hit in the Shooting Phase* (can't go past 2+)
- 1 ML token allows the unit to ignore Move + Heavy penalty AND Advance + Assault penalty to shoot
b. More than 3 ML tokens on the enemy unit:
- 1 ML token allows the unit to ignore cover bonus of +1. 2 tokens to ignore cover bonus of +2.
- 2 ML tokens allow the unit to add +1 to hit in the Shooting Phase* (can't go past 2+)
- 2 ML tokens allow the unit to fire Seeker/Destroyer Missiles at normal BS (other ML benefits also apply) and ignoring line of sight

*This would include Overwatch if Supporting Fire wwas removed from T'au, but as it would make 4 rule changes, I left it out.

2. Substitute the Commander's Mont'ka/Kauyon stuff for this: If your warlord is a Commander, choose between Mont'ka or Kauyon battle doctrines before deployment. The chosen battle doctrine affects all <T'AU> units in your army. Commander Farsight is locked with Mont'ka and Commander Shadowsun is locked with Kauyon.
a. Mont'ka: choose an enemy unit at the start of your turn. Re-roll all to hit and to wound rolls until the start of your next turn against the chosen unit.
b. Kauyon: Units can Advance and fire non-Assault weapons with -1 to hit rolls. I'm torn between giving it Supporting Fire at 12" or Fall Back and fire at -1 like Ultramarines do.

3. Seeker Missiles do 1d3 mortal wounds and Destroyer Missiles do 2d3 mortal wounds.

Hmm... Done!

1. Industrial Efficiency - All vehicles, Super heavy vehicles, Walkers, and Flyers treat - 1AP weapons as having an AP value of "0" instead.

2. Grenade Launcher increased to "Assault 2"

3. Flamer adjusted ranges:
Hand flamer - 4"
Flamer - 8"
Heavy flamer - 12"
Inferbo cannon - 16"

Space marines

1) give tacticals and intercessors some variant of "fury of the legion" from HH.

2) make "primaris" a unit upgrade, so you can have primaris devastators, sternguard etc.

3) new stratagem that allows a unit to ignore negative hit modifiers

 bullyboy wrote:
Dark Angels:
1. Ravenwing Grenade Launchers fire 2D6 frag grenades instead of 1D6 (since they can fire 2 krak grenades, why not 2 frag?)

Good idea.
2. Deathwing assault drops to 1 cp/2 cps
3. Teleport homers on ravenwing allow deathwing to deep strike closer than 9". Maybe 6"
4. Scrap the tactical objectives and interromancy and start again. Seriously. They both suck.

Black Templars Chapter tactic.
Gain +1 attack on the charge

Zustiur wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Dark Angels:
1. Ravenwing Grenade Launchers fire 2D6 frag grenades instead of 1D6 (since they can fire 2 krak grenades, why not 2 frag?)

Good idea.
2. Deathwing assault drops to 1 cp/2 cps
3. Teleport homers on ravenwing allow deathwing to deep strike closer than 9". Maybe 6"
4. Scrap the tactical objectives and interromancy and start again. Seriously. They both suck.

Deep striking into 6 inchs makes for some broken things. It would be better to give them a extra 1d6 to charge range after using a homer to DS.

Necrons

1) Decrease warrior squads min unit size to five or increase ghost arc transport capacity to 12.

2) Make ghost arcs open-topped again .

3) Units arriving via tomb world deployment may bring a single non-C'tan character with them. This character must obey the same deployment rules as the unit it is deploying with.

Dark Angels

1) As has been brought up before, give Ravenwing Bike Squads Homing beacons that function like Tau stealth suits beacons.

2) Also brought up before, scrap the Interomancy powers and start again.

3) That's all I really have. Fairly happy with them otherwise.

Necrons

1. Monoliths and Night Scythes now have the <TRANSPORT> keyword, and 1 HQ character in reserves may deploy alongside any unit arriving from Tomb World Deployment.

2. Gloom Prism is a wargear option for all HQ characters, Wraiths and Tomb Blades (Nebulascope/Shadowloom/Gloom Prism).

3. Once per battle, at any point during the Necron players turn, Resurrection Orbs allow 1 destroyed unit with Reanimation Protocols within 6" to make a Reanimation Protocols roll, and Res Orbs are now a wargear option for Crypteks.

(Skipping right over the Gauss problem. Trying to give it back that unique Necron feel....not even sure where to begin in trying to fix it.)

1 DG Army. Make Disgustingly Resilient army wide.

2 Eldar Army. I dunno I'm new here, give Dire Avengers one extra attack to make them a bit stiffer in CQC?

3 Space Marines Army. Give Successor Chapters access to all their Founding Chapters traits and stratagems and also allow for some chapters to choose their tactics based on their opponent as supported by the lore. Actually no, I want the 6th edition Chapter Tactics system back in its entirety. I really miss outflanking Raven Guard MSU in Razorbacks and scout moving gunlines.

With you on Successor chapters, Darkcloak

For all marine armies, loyalist and chaos:

1. Dreadnoughts can move and fire without penalty. Period.
2. Dreadnought powerfist\melee weapons do not have a penalty to hit.
3. Iron warrior characters can take a servo arm give n the fact gw makes an iw miniature with a servo arm.

Table wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Tzeentch Daemons:


Lords of Change and Kairos have the Magnus smite. 1d6 Damage, 2d6 on a 12+

Locus of Tzeentch instead provides a passive bonus to increase casting range of psychic powers by 6" for lesser daemons, 12" for greater daemons.

Flickering Fire added as a cantrip. Generic psychic power unaffected by the matched play rules limiting psychic powers, on a 7+ it deals a mortal wound, on a 12+ it deals d3 mortal wounds.

You just invalidated Magnus and the legion trait in one swoop.

The TSons codex did a better job at invalidating Magnus than I ever could. Enjoy codex Tzeentch Daemonkin, starring Tzaangor and more Tzaangor. Just because a Primarch is powerful doesn't mean the other $100 Models that cost around 350-400pts should be infinitely worse by comparison. Tzeentch daemons are literally physical manifestations of warp magic, led by the actual god of trickery and sorcery, and Kairos is his right hand man. They should be better than TSons at the job, by default. Full stop.

Table wrote:

Zustiur wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Dark Angels:
1. Ravenwing Grenade Launchers fire 2D6 frag grenades instead of 1D6 (since they can fire 2 krak grenades, why not 2 frag?)

Good idea.
2. Deathwing assault drops to 1 cp/2 cps
3. Teleport homers on ravenwing allow deathwing to deep strike closer than 9". Maybe 6"
4. Scrap the tactical objectives and interromancy and start again. Seriously. They both suck.

Deep striking into 6 inchs makes for some broken things. It would be better to give them a extra 1d6 to charge range after using a homer to DS.

Not really. It's the same exact thing Tau has (RAW, Tau can deepstrike just outside 1"), except that DWK are one of the best CC units in the game.

Even if a list revolved around Ravenwing delivery system with DWK as the main bulk of the army, the said list is limited to alpha strike @ turn they deep strike and NOTHING else. It's quite easy to kite terminators.

Assault marines with jump packs can:

1. deepstrike within 1” of enemy infantry and causes d3 mortal wounds.

2. deepstrike within 4” of a vehicle (melta bomb range.

3. fly off the board back into reserve

1. Orks never lose, in any game where it says they can lose they are instead said to be "second winnaz".
2. If two Ork armies face each other they must immediately put all their models away and challenge each other in some sort of contest to determine the winner. Contests include (but not limited to); Eating contest, a race, headbutting contest, arm wrestle, shouting contest.
3. Ork ground units may tackle flyers in melee combat however only 1 in every 3 models may attack as the Orks stack on top of each other to reach their foe.

My changes will be reasonable.. compared to many of those i read so far~

Primary Army Imperial Guard (Cadian and Voystrians) i would love to be able to have:
1. Sergeants/officers/commissars/models that starts with a pistol and a close combat weapon (or just one of them) gets to have the option to take a Hot-shot Lasgun. (like DKoK has access to) AND get cooler close combat weapons like Lighting claws (like the commanders in the DoW games)
1b OR have the Company Commanders/Warlord's traits effect the entire infantry forces of a detachment. Since they are not made for combat they can be used to buff their units instead. Not for free of course. I don't mind paying more for a guy that increases the entire infantry army to do better
2. Veterans squads gets their access to carapace armor and camo cloaks again (Because that was removed for some reason)
2b If not the Veteran choice i then want Hot shot lasguns range to be increased to 24" together with every other common rapid fire weapon cause the 18" is just stupid and is clearly done so the "Humans" don't have a better weapon then the "super-non humans" (Space marines)
3. Gets access to rough riders with a 4+ save (carapace armour) that is similar to DKoK death riders. Making them a whole lot more useful (DKoK death riders also have 1 more attack if i remember right)
3b. If not rough riders i want Ogryns and bullgryns to be actually usefull in close combat. let them have access to storm shields, power fists/thunder hammer and/or lightning claws (I am aware of the lore reasons to why they don't but as they are.. they are useless to me with their -1 AP)


For Death Korps of Krieg:
1. To get the "first rank fire, second rank fire" order instead of the lame one that replaces it (gets pistol 2 instead of rapid fire 2... wup di fething do...)
2. Grinding advance rule gets abolished for the one in the Imperial Guard/ Astra Militarum Codex
3. Hot shot lasguns range to be increased to 24" together with every other common rapid fire weapon cause the 18" is just stupid and is clearly done so the "Humans" don't have a better weapon then the "super-non humans" (Space marines)

For 8th edition in general
1. Vehicles saves are all increased by +1. but also don't benefit from cover.
2. Astra Militarum/Imperial guards heavy weapons squads gets smaller bases so we can also put them where space marines devastators can go :/ We want to be in narrows streets and ruins to~
3. I want to be allowed to target character for shooting no matter if there is a closer unit nearby and in close combat with my other dudes (another dumb rule)

Bullgryns are pretty BA, in my opinion.

Tau. Rewrite how marker lights work entirely so that they function in the hero/psyker phase, and function with effects similar to magic/psykers. I.e. Pathfinders Grant guidance to that unit. Seeker missiles are arcane bolts.

Necrons:
1. Crypteks now act as psykers for the purposes of counter-spelling
2. Units lost to morale based effects cannot benefit from 'Re-animation protocols'
3. All gauss weapons deal double damage to anything with the < VEHICLE > tag

Orks:
1. Waaagh! Is now a table wide, one use ability. All < ORK > units receive a buff for this turn based on its faction.
- Bad Moons get 'Dakka Dakka Dakka!' baseline
- Speed Freeks can charge after advancing but on a charge roll of doubles they receive that many mortal wounds
- Goff units recieve +1 base strength
- Blood Axes benefit from any opponent aura effects
- Deff Skulls can move, advance and shoot all weapons with no penalties
2. Remove Ork Boyz 6+ save, all Orks now have a 6++ save cuz' they are hard to kill gits
3. Not really a rule, but Primeork Ghazzy pls

 Darkwolf44 wrote:

For Death Korps of Krieg:

2. Grinding advance rule gets abolished for the one in the Imperial Guard/ Astra Militarum Codex

They fixed it in the 1.1 faq so it is the same as the AM codex now.

 Kellevil wrote:

 Darkwolf44 wrote:

For Death Korps of Krieg:

2. Grinding advance rule gets abolished for the one in the Imperial Guard/ Astra Militarum Codex

They fixed it in the 1.1 faq so it is the same as the AM codex now.

Oh. Well thats good to know. Twin lascannon turret it is

 Kellevil wrote:

 Darkwolf44 wrote:

For Death Korps of Krieg:

2. Grinding advance rule gets abolished for the one in the Imperial Guard/ Astra Militarum Codex

They fixed it in the 1.1 faq so it is the same as the AM codex now.

To be honest, grinding advance should be abolished.

Yay! Nobody did Blood Angels!

Here we go:

1. Allow the "Killshot" Predator stratagem to trigger off/on/with Baal Predators in addition to regular predators.

2. Boost Death Company's f'n'p back to 5+++

3. Assault Marines: Do something to buff their uselessness. I'm not exactly sure how to do this without taking away from the "eliteness" of Vanguard Vets, Death Company and/or Sanguinary Guard. For Blood Angels, I'd say put them back in the "Troops" section, but that wouldn't fly (hehe, no pun intended) for all chapters. Anything I can think of for Assault Marines immediately devolves into: "why wouldn't VV/DC/SG have it?" (ex; A closer deepstrike to enemy, reroll charges in turn after arriving, return to deepstrike reserve, etc.

Thousand Sons

Thinking some changes based around Rubrics and Scarab Occult Terminators.

1. Change the Cabalistic Focus stratagem to give +1 to psychic tests to all TS psykers within 9" for that psychic test

2. Stratagem: Use at the beginning of any phase. Choose a TS unit, then a bolter weapon or flamer weapon. The maximum range on bolters is increased by 9" until the end of that phase, and Flamers are increased to a maximum of 12" until the end of that phase.

3. Psychic Power: Chant of Dust: On a roll of 9+ select a unit with the All is Dust ability. Return d6 models to the unit. The unit may not exceed it's starting number of models. The returned models do not cost any reinforcement points in a matched play game.

Bonus!
Weapon Option: Give Rubrics the option of taking 2 power swords for each model in the unit (staff and sword for the aspiring sorcerer), gain +1 attack (as standard). There's your Khenentai Occult units.