This is not intended to be a troll thread at all. I'm just curious what you all truly think.

With only a handful of codices remaining to be released, GW will have everything finished for 8th Edition with the exception of FAQs and this year's Chapter Approved update.

So, it makes me wonder, it's GW going to treat 8th Edition like AoS and keep it around essentially indefinitely only making changes to it via FAQs and a yearly Chapter Approved. Or do you think that once they get all of the codices out, they'll start the push to 9th Edition providing maybe one more update to Chapter Approved and the FAQs before making the switch?

SG

My hunch is that 8th will be around for a while. I think they're trying out the living rules thing.

We may well get an 8.1 and so on, where they rerelease the rulebook and Codexes with updates and errata. But I don't expect a full reboot for several years.

Stux wrote:
My hunch is that 8th will be around for a while. I think they're trying out the living rules thing.

We may well get an 8.1 and so on, where they rerelease the rulebook and Codexes with updates and errata. But I don't expect a full reboot for several years.

I hope this is the case. Because I'm a big fan of 8th.

They haven't even released all of the codexes yet.

8th edition is alive for at least 2 more years at the absolute minimum.

Could it be 9th ed, no fliers

40k has never been more popular than it is right now.
40k's competitive scene is finally getting support from GW, and that's having a trickledown effect on the community.
8th is getting constant updates, which will probably extend its longevity past most of its previous iterations.
GW's profits are through the roof.
= 8th is here for a long time to stay, I'd reckon.

Until such time as GW actually figure out how to deliver FAQs, etc., in a consolidated manner i.e. your codex updates automatically following an errata., etc., they need to knock the whole constant update shennanigans on the head.

Yes, it introduces balance but at the cost of the end user not having a fething clue at times whether or not their codex is up to date because it is hidden behind a paywall.

Fluff for hardbacks but rules are e-codex only which get updated, or buy the physical copy and get the e-codex free - the latter being capable of auto updates.

In summary, bit of a rant sorry, but they need to stop edition transitions until they get the damned 'living document' issue sorted.

N.B. I don't use e-codices.

Also, what is their hard on for iOS and 'better codices'? They can give exactly the same functionality to Android users, just the design department prefer to use Macs 'cause they are trendy?

40k has never been more popular than it is right now.

Given GW has never done any market research of census of playerbase, we dont know that is true, we dont even know if more people are playing now other than circumstantial evidence.

40k's competitive scene is finally getting support from GW, and that's having a trickledown effect on the community.

This has always been the case with the notable exception of 6th and most of 7th, the Tourney scene has ALWAYS influenced normal play, the internet has had more of an impact on this than anything GW has done.

8th is getting constant updates, which will probably extend its longevity past most of its previous iterations.

same as 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th/7th and now 8th, all were constantly updated, just 6th/7th were not FAQ'd much if at all, the biggest issue with 7th was the CONSTANT updates and rules bloat outside of the main rulebook.

GW's profits are through the roof.

Funny how good marketing will do that

= 8th is here for a long time to stay, I'd reckon.

I agree it will be around for a few years, I predict 9th end of 2019 to mid 2020

 Marmatag wrote:
They haven't even released all of the codexes yet.

8th edition is alive for at least 2 more years at the absolute minimum.

Gw has been releasing new editions every 2 year lately. No reason 9th can't be out next year. Of course unlikely to be total reboot but then again whoknows. Reboots makes money so...

I think it's gonna stay for a while just because GW needs to build the foundation of the new style. I think once the final codex is out we will see it for another year before 9th. Hopefully 9th will remove turn one deep strike, and balance out the alpha strike. But.

tneva82 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
They haven't even released all of the codexes yet.

8th edition is alive for at least 2 more years at the absolute minimum.

Gw has been releasing new editions every 2 year lately. No reason 9th can't be out next year. Of course unlikely to be total reboot but then again whoknows. Reboots makes money so...

Replacing an unpopular edition within 2 years does not equate to "releasing new editions every 2 years."

Dandelion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
They haven't even released all of the codexes yet.

8th edition is alive for at least 2 more years at the absolute minimum.

Gw has been releasing new editions every 2 year lately. No reason 9th can't be out next year. Of course unlikely to be total reboot but then again whoknows. Reboots makes money so...

Replacing an unpopular edition within 2 years does not equate to "releasing new editions every 2 years."

By what metric are you saying its unpopular, its clearly popular enough for HH to still be a strong thing that is GROWING in player base, 7th also had a solid following throughout its life, just because us dakkaites think 7th (40k) sucked, doesnt make it so.

My view is that GW has worked out a new way to approach their game with 8th edition. Instead of a totally new edition every few years I hope they'll see 8th more like a continual evolution of the game.

Therefore I expect to see the core rules remain around for a long time; however the various armies will get updates through the chapter approved each year and through errata and FAQ releases in between.

In addition we will likely see new armies and also new models for existing armies released with rules in the box.


So that sets things up nicely for a re-release of army codex every few years with an update in lore; update in core rules and generally collating things together.




This gives GW the ability to stick with its rolling rulebooks and codex model (which no matter how some complain - it is a proven working method). In addition alongside that I expect to see their digital products update on their own over time; perhaps even offering a price for Lore updates whilst rules are free.

That means GW will encourage people to go for the digital product, but won't abandon the print product - which could in time become a more exclusive item for GW to sell.



At this stage I think GW releasing a new edition so fast after 8th would be a very poor move. They'd also likely risk burning themselves out with another fast turn around of all rules materials and I think it would have a huge backlash effect. 8th I think is here to stay.

You're going to get a solid 3-4 more years of 8th, minimum. A massive whole-scale change is too big and difficult to carry out. Also with it being a living ruleset you could see it run even longer. Even if we end up with 8th V2.0

9th will come out next year making you constantly buy new rule books is too good of a money maker.

8th is likely to be around awhile - and whenever 9th comes out, it's more likely to be a refinement than a total reboot.

 Formosa wrote:

Dandelion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
They haven't even released all of the codexes yet.

8th edition is alive for at least 2 more years at the absolute minimum.

Gw has been releasing new editions every 2 year lately. No reason 9th can't be out next year. Of course unlikely to be total reboot but then again whoknows. Reboots makes money so...

Replacing an unpopular edition within 2 years does not equate to "releasing new editions every 2 years."

By what metric are you saying its unpopular, its clearly popular enough for HH to still be a strong thing that is GROWING in player base, 7th also had a solid following throughout its life, just because us dakkaites think 7th (40k) sucked, doesnt make it so.

Just look at their stock price: it has tripled since 2017.
I personally never played 7th, but even outside of dakka I never got a good impression of the game, it was pretty clear not many people liked it at all. So, yes it was unpopular.

Dandelion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Dandelion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
They haven't even released all of the codexes yet.

8th edition is alive for at least 2 more years at the absolute minimum.

Gw has been releasing new editions every 2 year lately. No reason 9th can't be out next year. Of course unlikely to be total reboot but then again whoknows. Reboots makes money so...

Replacing an unpopular edition within 2 years does not equate to "releasing new editions every 2 years."

By what metric are you saying its unpopular, its clearly popular enough for HH to still be a strong thing that is GROWING in player base, 7th also had a solid following throughout its life, just because us dakkaites think 7th (40k) sucked, doesnt make it so.

Just look at their stock price: it has tripled since 2017.
I personally never played 7th, but even outside of dakka I never got a good impression of the game, it was pretty clear not many people liked it at all. So, yes it was unpopular.

7th had issues, just as 8th does. The biggest issue with 7th was codex creep and bad codex design. The base rule set is honestly pretty good I overall I like 7th more then 8th as a BASE rule set.

That said, I am a huge 30k fan and my forays into 8th have been mediocre.

 Formosa wrote:

Dandelion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
They haven't even released all of the codexes yet.

8th edition is alive for at least 2 more years at the absolute minimum.

Gw has been releasing new editions every 2 year lately. No reason 9th can't be out next year. Of course unlikely to be total reboot but then again whoknows. Reboots makes money so...

Replacing an unpopular edition within 2 years does not equate to "releasing new editions every 2 years."

By what metric are you saying its unpopular, its clearly popular enough for HH to still be a strong thing that is GROWING in player base, 7th also had a solid following throughout its life, just because us dakkaites think 7th (40k) sucked, doesnt make it so.

Wait, what? Do you have any evidence to backup any of these claims? Not saying you don't, just would be shocked to see it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asmodai wrote:
8th is likely to be around awhile - and whenever 9th comes out, it's more likely to be a refinement than a total reboot.

I think we're more likely to see an 8.1 than a 9th edition.

I don't think that there will ever be something like a 9th edition

8th is just 8 pages of rules and I don't expect that those are going to change
one reason for having minimum core rules is that you can change everything else around them

actually we are playing 9th already after CA (you already see the same difference in faction power for those written with CA in mind and those without), and you can expect 10th with the new Space Marine Codex


So it will be similar to Age of Sigmar which has now its 3rd Edition if you would speak in outdated terms but as the core rules never change it is still the 1st Edi but the game is nothing like it was back by release

 Marmatag wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Dandelion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
They haven't even released all of the codexes yet.

8th edition is alive for at least 2 more years at the absolute minimum.

Gw has been releasing new editions every 2 year lately. No reason 9th can't be out next year. Of course unlikely to be total reboot but then again whoknows. Reboots makes money so...

Replacing an unpopular edition within 2 years does not equate to "releasing new editions every 2 years."

By what metric are you saying its unpopular, its clearly popular enough for HH to still be a strong thing that is GROWING in player base, 7th also had a solid following throughout its life, just because us dakkaites think 7th (40k) sucked, doesnt make it so.

Wait, what? Do you have any evidence to backup any of these claims? Not saying you don't, just would be shocked to see it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asmodai wrote:
8th is likely to be around awhile - and whenever 9th comes out, it's more likely to be a refinement than a total reboot.

I think we're more likely to see an 8.1 than a 9th edition.

Yep, if 7th was as unpopular as the dakka community claims the company would have folded the edition within months, it obviously sold well enough for the mountain of terrible supplements it got, where as 30ks biggest barrier was cost, 30k aptly proves that the main rules were fine, it was the codexs that totally ruined 7th 40k for a lot of people, in spite of that it sold and was popular the world over, just not with us.

Still the funniest thing for me was primarily 40k sites wants heresy in 8th, where as primarily 30k sites wanted it to stay with 7th, both have merits.

I hope it will last at least 3-4 years. I basically started playing 8th edition 4 days ago after the drukhari codex release since 8th edition with index is barely 40k, IMHO the worst 40k experience ever. 2/3 of my armies are still unplayable with the index. So yeah, I wish 9th edition doesn't come before 2020 at least.

Once all the codexes get released, we'll have a few mini-codexes to milk us, then they will release 8.5 (or 9th) with a new SM Codex that removes manlette marines (while canonically upgrading the special characters, even the ones that don't make sense like Tycho), and also makes index units illegal, with an official "counts as" provision to use your old marines as Chad Marines

Not saying they'll do this, but I don't see why GW can't just release a yearly rules supplement in Chapter Approved, and keep the game in 8th edition for a very long time. Rereleasing codexes as they see necessary.

That seems to be pretty much the way things look moving forward.

I really don't want 8th to be long term as the core mechanics of 8th are what keep me away from playing it but sadly it seems that is what GW wants to do with Chapter Approved. I think the concept of an evolving and updating rule set is fine but I don't think GW had the knowledge on how to do that when building 8th. They let the goal of making the game beginner accessible shoot themselves in the foot when it came to building a solid foundation to work from.

I think it will be a living rules set like they are doing with AOS. It won't be "9th Edition" they will just adjust the rules frequently. We are done with editions IMHO.

I think 8th has a while to go. The new FAQ systems seem to be increasing the time between editions for other systems and I don't see why it wouldn't have the same effect here. We'll probably have a couple years at least of 1-2 'event' books that'll contain a couple new models, some CA-style missions, fluff and stratagems.

RT (1987)
2nd edition (1993)
3rd edition (1998)
4th edition (2004)
5th edition (2008)
6th edition (2012)
7th edition (2014)
8th edition (2017)

I played RT, and now I'm buying into 8th edition. It seems like the time between editions has halved over the years. Slimming down the core rules is good for the gameplay and for the ability to update it without releasing a new edition, but GW needs to find a sensible way to make updates without FAQ bloat.

 deathwinguk wrote:
RT (1987)
2nd edition (1993)
3rd edition (1998)
4th edition (2004)
5th edition (2008)
6th edition (2012)
7th edition (2014)
8th edition (2017)

I played RT, and now I'm buying into 8th edition. It seems like the time between editions has halved over the years. Slimming down the core rules is good for the gameplay and for the ability to update it without releasing a new edition, but GW needs to find a sensible way to make updates. I'd rather they maintained a single shiny PDF to go with each book instead of separate scrappy errata / FAQs and then CA each year. I'd even pay a small yearly subscription for that.

I suspect they'll go the PP route in 9th and just release a PDF with the BRB just a 'collectors item'

I would be surprised if 9th. won't be out very late 2018 or early 2019.

GW sped up the release of 8th. so they could get to this point with most codices out.

Releasing a codex is a big driver for selling models and I think 9th. will be a test to see if they can release with even more narrow release windows to maximize profits.

Now ideally none of this would happen and GW would change their model, but I can't see that happening any time soon....

Ehh - more than likely we will get redone codexes in this eddition - space marines will probably get the first one. We will call it 8.5 though - not 9th edition.

A lot of people seem to think that GW makes their money off of codices. GW makes its money selling plastic. Even if you assume rules are the only thing that sells models and no one just buys the stuff they think looks cool, campaign books can do that just as easily as codices. I'm betting it'll be quite a while before we see 9th edition.

 Draccan wrote:

I would be surprised if 9th. won't be out very late 2018 or early 2019.

GW sped up the release of 8th. so they could get to this point with most codices out.

Releasing a codex is a big driver for selling models and I think 9th. will be a test to see if they can release with even more narrow release windows to maximize profits.

Now ideally none of this would happen and GW would change their model, but I can't see that happening any time soon....

I can't see this happening. GW finally climbed out of it's PR blackhole that it was stuck in for so many years (and are reaping financial benefits based on their stock price). Whenever another minis company did something somewhat shady the phrase "Well that was bad but at least they are not GW" was thrown around a lot locally and online. So doing something like that so soon would be risky... I mean as evidenced by 7th editon people were more than willing to say enough is enough and go search for greener pastures (myself it happened when 6th came out and I am just a recently returning player)

 EnTyme wrote:
A lot of people seem to think that GW makes their money off of codices. GW makes its money selling plastic. Even if you assume rules are the only thing that sells models and no one just buys the stuff they think looks cool, campaign books can do that just as easily as codices. I'm betting it'll be quite a while before we see 9th edition.

The make a huge amount of money off of codex. Plenty of people don't buy new models and just play with their old ones. At 50$ a pop and with most people who buy models only supplementing their armies at this point. GW probably makes something like 10% or 15% of their profits off of codex/CA/rule books/campaign books. It is no mystery why they are still around in a digital age. It makes them lots of money.

Really? People actually think there will be an entire new edition?

look at AOS. They have been around years now and a full reboot is probably just not going to happen in either game. There may be shake-ups, but no 'new edition' will be out for a long time. There might be new rulebooks and all that, but the core will stay, that much I am almost certain of.

It's seems like 8th is around to stay which is good.

It can be hard to forget but 8th is just a 4 page ruleset. Which is free. Everything else comes from codexes so there is zero need to make a new edition in GW eyes and any business sense as you can adjust the game through codexes FAQs, and chapter approved.

Wayniac wrote:
I think it will be a living rules set like they are doing with AOS. It won't be "9th Edition" they will just adjust the rules frequently. We are done with editions IMHO.

I tend to agree. "9th edition" when it comes will just be GW putting all the stuff from chapter approved in one book for simplicities sake

 Xenomancers wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
A lot of people seem to think that GW makes their money off of codices. GW makes its money selling plastic. Even if you assume rules are the only thing that sells models and no one just buys the stuff they think looks cool, campaign books can do that just as easily as codices. I'm betting it'll be quite a while before we see 9th edition.

The make a huge amount of money off of codex. Plenty of people don't buy new models and just play with their old ones. At 50$ a pop and with most people who buy models only supplementing their armies at this point. GW probably makes something like 10% or 15% of their profits off of codex/CA/rule books/campaign books. It is no mystery why they are still around in a digital age. It makes them lots of money.

I'd be curious to know where you got those numbers. It's not consistent with what I've seen online or in the local stores.

8th definitely feels like a long-term project for GW. I would be baffled if 9th drops next year. I honestly feel like they'd do an 8.5 edition before they do a 9th, mostly because GW seems to have gotten rid of the "burn everything and start over" idea of fixing things.

After all the codexes have dropped, I believe we’ll see an 8.1 sort of revision - something a little more involved that Chapter Approved, but less than a full-on edition change. Maybe an updated rules pamphlet and a few of the more disappointing codexes (Space Marines, Grey Knights) getting an updated copy.

If GW has really changed, we won’t see 9th edition for about 5-6 years, at least.

I don't think we will see 9th for a long time. My understanding is that 8th/AoS is the default GW system now and the updates will come from Chapter Approved and the living errata/FAQs.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
A lot of people seem to think that GW makes their money off of codices. GW makes its money selling plastic. Even if you assume rules are the only thing that sells models and no one just buys the stuff they think looks cool, campaign books can do that just as easily as codices. I'm betting it'll be quite a while before we see 9th edition.

The make a huge amount of money off of codex. Plenty of people don't buy new models and just play with their old ones. At 50$ a pop and with most people who buy models only supplementing their armies at this point. GW probably makes something like 10% or 15% of their profits off of codex/CA/rule books/campaign books. It is no mystery why they are still around in a digital age. It makes them lots of money.

I'd be curious to know where you got those numbers. It's not consistent with what I've seen online or in the local stores.

Just an estimate based on what I see at my local shops - the majority of the players in my area don't buy models very often but they will buy the codex/campaign books/ect for their army when it comes out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
After all the codexes have dropped, I believe we’ll see an 8.1 sort of revision - something a little more involved that Chapter Approved, but less than a full-on edition change. Maybe an updated rules pamphlet and a few of the more disappointing codexes (Space Marines, Grey Knights) getting an updated copy.

If GW has really changed, we won’t see 9th edition for about 5-6 years, at least.

Yeah - this is in line with what I am thinking.

 EnTyme wrote:
A lot of people seem to think that GW makes their money off of codices. GW makes its money selling plastic. Even if you assume rules are the only thing that sells models and no one just buys the stuff they think looks cool, campaign books can do that just as easily as codices. I'm betting it'll be quite a while before we see 9th edition.

Once people have bought models they don't tend to buy them again unless new and better versions come out, but when you change edition everyone has to buy the books all over again.

7th edition was just a slightly tweaked 6th that's what put me off playing in 7th, I found the shooting focused edition extremely boring and wasn't going to go through it again.

8th is a beta test they are charging you to try out when they think they've got it kind of right 9th will come and you'll be buying all those books again, they'll still be over priced copy paste jobs and will be obsolete in two years.

Seriously people is arguing GW makes a good part of their profit from books? Not only is the difference in the profit margin from miniatures to book inmense, this "People just buy some models and they don't buy more" is nonsense.

Who does that? Most of the people doesnt stop buying models as long as they are an active player, maybe they are starting new armies, expanding their existing forces, even branching to other GW games.

This "He keeps playing with his 20-years old models and only buy books" players are just a minority, that makes most of their purchases from 2 hand markets, ebay, etc... (Nothing wrong with this people of course, but they aren't a significant part of the community, at least not one that affects GW sales)

same thing as always, when 8th becomes the bloated mess that happens to previous editions, they will make a new one, same as AoS. While those who love 8th will want to crow about it being the last edition and the haters saying it will be gone by 2019 the reality is no game stays constant, 8th will go away eventually and then we can all love/hate 9th.

I hope they just continue to patch it for a while (maybe until 2020 or 2022?) but at some point i probably do want a new edition to clean up things again and tighten up the rules some more.

That, or i'd be okay with 8.5 type rulebook that is just 8th with 2-4 years of chapter approved and FAQs written into it.

 Formosa wrote:


Yep, if 7th was as unpopular as the dakka community claims the company would have folded the edition within months, it obviously sold well enough for the mountain of terrible supplements it got, where as 30ks biggest barrier was cost, 30k aptly proves that the main rules were fine, it was the codexs that totally ruined 7th 40k for a lot of people, in spite of that it sold and was popular the world over, just not with us.

Still the funniest thing for me was primarily 40k sites wants heresy in 8th, where as primarily 30k sites wanted it to stay with 7th, both have merits.

Ditching 7th within months would not have been feasible for GW. Considering it probably takes them 2-3 months (or more, who knows?) to make a codex based on index datasheets, it would seem 8th edition was in the works at least 1 year if not 2 years ahead of its release which would mean that 7th only lasted 1 year before GW couldn't take it anymore and decided to scrap the whole thing and start over. 1 year for GW is not a lot of time.

I don't believe there will be a 9th ED till at least 2020 maby even 2022.

I might just be optimistic but the game is so much better than the last 2 editions (not that it's that hard to be better than the last 2 ED). I've been playing since 2nd ED with a small break at the beginning of 5th coming back for 6th and I love the current rules.

With the chapter approved updating the basic rules and FAQ's coming fairly regularly this is a very sustainable model and if you are worried about them not making a buck from books have no fear every codex will eventually be updated again (after all of them had their first turn) and we will see campaign books ect. as well.

I love the fact that they are bringing things like plastic sisters to life (I'd love to see re-imagined squats but even I'm not that optimistic), GW is listening to us or at least to trends so If you think there is an issue send them an email who knows maby your suggestion will be in the next chapter approved.

There are bad things about 8th I'm not saying it's perfect but at least we are not locked and stagnant until 9th ED.

All in all I am very excited to see this all happen.

Oh and not to mention the fact that specialist games are coming back as well.....that's just iceing on the cake.

Dandelion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:


Yep, if 7th was as unpopular as the dakka community claims the company would have folded the edition within months, it obviously sold well enough for the mountain of terrible supplements it got, where as 30ks biggest barrier was cost, 30k aptly proves that the main rules were fine, it was the codexs that totally ruined 7th 40k for a lot of people, in spite of that it sold and was popular the world over, just not with us.

Still the funniest thing for me was primarily 40k sites wants heresy in 8th, where as primarily 30k sites wanted it to stay with 7th, both have merits.

Ditching 7th within months would not have been feasible for GW. Considering it probably takes them 2-3 months (or more, who knows?) to make a codex based on index datasheets, it would seem 8th edition was in the works at least 1 year if not 2 years ahead of its release which would mean that 7th only lasted 1 year before GW couldn't take it anymore and decided to scrap the whole thing and start over. 1 year for GW is not a lot of time.

This is mostly in response to Formosa's comment. You've got a couple of things seriously wrong: The edition didn't sell models, 40k sold models. It's more likely that 7th edition was throttling model sales, which caused them to come out with cheap, poorly thought out supplements in an effort to drive profits in places where they were failing.

30k only proves that 7th edition can only kind of work if there're only 1.5ish armies total. Once you start dealing with stuff other than space marines the ruleset breaks down pretty fast. 30k still suffers heavily from most vehicles being basically useless and custodes came out to tournament bannable levels of op. 7th was fundamentally broken at its core in a way 8th isn't quite, They didn't leave themselves much room to make a decent cover system, but the rest of the game functions, if not fantastically, at least better than 7th.

If popularity is your measure of quality, then 8th is pretty much the be all end all of warhammer editions. GW can't even keep up with production anymore.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Ehh - more than likely we will get redone codexes in this eddition - space marines will probably get the first one. We will call it 8.5 though - not 9th edition.

I don't want SM to get the first codex again, do you think you can handle watching the codex power creep that comes afterwards, xeno?

In a more - serious - note, I really hope they ditch the incremental release of codexes and instead focus on a super agile approach; perhaps even leverage the modern age?
For example, buying models gives you their rules on the 40k list builder. And there they update as needed without having to grind out books.

Dandelion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:


Yep, if 7th was as unpopular as the dakka community claims the company would have folded the edition within months, it obviously sold well enough for the mountain of terrible supplements it got, where as 30ks biggest barrier was cost, 30k aptly proves that the main rules were fine, it was the codexs that totally ruined 7th 40k for a lot of people, in spite of that it sold and was popular the world over, just not with us.

Still the funniest thing for me was primarily 40k sites wants heresy in 8th, where as primarily 30k sites wanted it to stay with 7th, both have merits.

Ditching 7th within months would not have been feasible for GW. Considering it probably takes them 2-3 months (or more, who knows?) to make a codex based on index datasheets, it would seem 8th edition was in the works at least 1 year if not 2 years ahead of its release which would mean that 7th only lasted 1 year before GW couldn't take it anymore and decided to scrap the whole thing and start over. 1 year for GW is not a lot of time.

I think some people are forgetting that 7th DIDN'T sell well. Sure, they had the initial surge, but sales essentially stopped growing for GW during 7th. Their financials plateaued, which is one of the reason their recent reports look so good. I agree with Formosa though, it was primarily the supplements and codecies that ruined what had basically worked for over a decade.

The pace with which the codices are released (Harlies, SW, and Orks are basically missing) could be a hint that the 9th ed will arrive soon.

Dandelion wrote:
Just look at their stock price: it has tripled since 2017.
I personally never played 7th, but even outside of dakka I never got a good impression of the game, it was pretty clear not many people liked it at all. So, yes it was unpopular.

Yeah gee what a surprise. Good marketing leads to better sales.

Rule quality and balance wise both still suck. No change there. GW sells DESPITE rules.


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 kodos wrote:
I don't think that there will ever be something like a 9th edition

Yeah right. Changing editions is core policy of GW. Helps shuffling things around by making people buy stuff. Just see how every time GW releases new edition they see spike in sales. That's reason why they want to release new editions periodically.


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 EnTyme wrote:
A lot of people seem to think that GW makes their money off of codices. GW makes its money selling plastic. Even if you assume rules are the only thing that sells models and no one just buys the stuff they think looks cool, campaign books can do that just as easily as codices. I'm betting it'll be quite a while before we see 9th edition.

a) they make money from both. What? You think they sell codexes at loss?
b) new codex gets released, people buy new models to make collection fit new codex.

Who would have thought it. Rules affecting people's purchaces of models. Weren't all GW buyers just buying for collection rather than playing?

Better question than "is there going to be 9th ed or not" are "when" and "how big of a change".

I think 8th will be around for a long while now, the community as a whole seems to have a good reaction to it.

Community has had good reactions before as well. Doesn't stop GW from making their periodic grand shuffles.

I wonder if they've got an app ready to go for 40K, with all the datasheets included for free in a similar way to the AoS app, and the sped up codex release was to maximise profits on books first before the app goes live...

 Gareth40K wrote:
I wonder if they've got an app ready to go for 40K, with all the datasheets included for free in a similar way to the AoS app, and the sped up codex release was to maximise profits on books first before the app goes live...

They've already announced such an app.

IMO there will be an 8.5 after all the codexes are out where they re-release the BRB with all the errata and FAQ and chapter approved changes so it's all in one place. Then we'll probably see a few codexes every once in awhile, and 9th ed may never appear. That or they call 8.5 ed 9th ed.

If codexes and rulebooks don't make GW that much money, they are better off slowing down the rules overhauls and sticking with 8th.
A stable player-base is surely going to mean people will branch out into other armies, and expand the ones they have.
If the annual CA books change rules slightly, people will adapt their armies to fit the new way of playing. The recent CA rules said that flying models cannot score objectives (I think), so some armies had to adjust.

I'm actually wondering if we're about to see the back of Codex updates.

Think about their layout. Points costs all separate from unit entries, stuck in the back of the book. Intention there is apparently so they can update points without needing to redo the whole book.

So far, the only Codex to get rejigged is Deathwatch - and that's to introduce Primaris. Should've happen at the outset if you ask me, but at least it's a significant update to the Codex. Compare Dark Eldar and Necrons during the switch from paperback to hardback. We just lost options and equipment, and gained nothing.

Some form of game reshaping will happen at some time in the future, that is bound to happen.

I would really be surprised though to see that reshaping come before at least 4 more CA.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We just lost options and equipment, and gained nothing.

Except for chapter tactics and stratagems, bringing you in line with all the other codexes.

Something to note: I don't think that Games Workshop has released any marketing material or otherwise that refers to this Edition as Warhammer 40k 8th edition. I distinctly remember them numbering the other editions since I started in 3rd.

Can someone prove me wrong? Anything on the games-workshop.com site, warhammer40000.com, or warhammer-community.com that specifically says "8th" Edition?

Leads me to believe that this Edition is around to stay for a while, with minor tweaks via Chapter Approved and frequent FAQ/Errata.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Ehh - more than likely we will get redone codexes in this eddition - space marines will probably get the first one. We will call it 8.5 though - not 9th edition.

I don't want SM to get the first codex again, do you think you can handle watching the codex power creep that comes afterwards, xeno?

In a more - serious - note, I really hope they ditch the incremental release of codexes and instead focus on a super agile approach; perhaps even leverage the modern age?
For example, buying models gives you their rules on the 40k list builder. And there they update as needed without having to grind out books.

Same old thing man. History repeats it'self. I can handle it because I am addicted to plastic crack toy soliders.


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 Galas wrote:
Seriously people is arguing GW makes a good part of their profit from books? Not only is the difference in the profit margin from miniatures to book inmense, this "People just buy some models and they don't buy more" is nonsense.

Who does that? Most of the people doesnt stop buying models as long as they are an active player, maybe they are starting new armies, expanding their existing forces, even branching to other GW games.

This "He keeps playing with his 20-years old models and only buy books" players are just a minority, that makes most of their purchases from 2 hand markets, ebay, etc... (Nothing wrong with this people of course, but they aren't a significant part of the community, at least not one that affects GW sales)

Whatever the amount of profit they are making from book sales is. It is enough for them not to go with what the community would prefer, that would be easier to update, and ultimately will make them more money in the end. It is the only reasonable answer as to why they haven't gone to a digital medium for their rules and do these incremental releases. Me for example - I have bought 6 codex this edition - I have spent maybe twice that much on kits - that is even more than most the people I play with. I suppose their are people out there who are buying new armies but I feel those are probably less than what you think they are.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Ehh - more than likely we will get redone codexes in this eddition - space marines will probably get the first one. We will call it 8.5 though - not 9th edition.

I don't want SM to get the first codex again, do you think you can handle watching the codex power creep that comes afterwards, xeno?

In a more - serious - note, I really hope they ditch the incremental release of codexes and instead focus on a super agile approach; perhaps even leverage the modern age?
For example, buying models gives you their rules on the 40k list builder. And there they update as needed without having to grind out books.

GW will never be able to be “super agile” until they ditch paper codexes. I’m not sure I want them to go this direction though, I like some stability in my games and GW’s rule revisions thend to be overly reactive and punative.

About selling books: selling a new Chapter approved every year makes more money than a new rulebook every 2-4 years.
I also think 8th ed. is here to stay, for as long as it works for them (it currently does, so I don't think they have plans to change edition at the moment).

I actually kind of Hope 8th is here to stay.

I enjoy 8th much more than I enjoyed 7th. I think it behooves people to get in early though, as I will bet anything that rules creep will become a problem as we get into the second and third CA.

GW wouldn't have announced the new yearly schedule for errata, FAQs and CA if they weren't going to run with that for a while:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/12/15/the-future-of-faqs-and-chapter-approved-dec-15gw-homepage-post-2/

 deathwinguk wrote:
GW wouldn't have announced the new yearly schedule for errata, FAQs and CA if they weren't going to run with that for a while:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/12/15/the-future-of-faqs-and-chapter-approved-dec-15gw-homepage-post-2/

Indeed.. people who argue that codex's drive sales are probably right, but there are plenty of players who have their 1-2 armies and don't chase what is current. To them, releases such Codex Approved drive sales as well as a new Codex.
I don't see a new edition until well after 2020.

Oh, and GW stopped numbering the editions after 6th... the community has kept track

I believe we are done with "edition x 40k" and are moving to a system that more closely resembles patches in video game ie. V1.2, V1.21, V1.3 ect ect.

We will get all the main codexes and then begin cycles of twice a year updates to the general rules/balance issues. But we will never fully jump to an entirely new edition we will simply get updated books/codexes that include all the changes up to that point.

Datasheets, Tanks wounds/toughness and Movement will be aroound for a good 6yrs+ at this point.

It has made the game so much easier for them and new players, less rules bloat, etc.. etc...

We will most likely get a 8.1 at the start of 2020

Asmodios wrote:
I believe we are done with "edition x 40k" and are moving to a system that more closely resembles patches in video game ie. V1.2, V1.21, V1.3 ect ect.

We will get all the main codexes and then begin cycles of twice a year updates to the general rules/balance issues. But we will never fully jump to an entirely new edition we will simply get updated books/codexes that include all the changes up to that point.

I don't think GW has the ability to stick with things that long. Things will go like this for a while then 9th will drop.

pm713 wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I believe we are done with "edition x 40k" and are moving to a system that more closely resembles patches in video game ie. V1.2, V1.21, V1.3 ect ect.

We will get all the main codexes and then begin cycles of twice a year updates to the general rules/balance issues. But we will never fully jump to an entirely new edition we will simply get updated books/codexes that include all the changes up to that point.

I don't think GW has the ability to stick with things that long. Things will go like this for a while then 9th will drop.

It's possible at some point down the road they will reboot, but I doubt it will be any time soon. They are selling through stuff way too quickly right now and instead of selling everyone a rulebook every 2-5 years they can sell everyone rules update 1-2 times per year and free up tons of development time and focus into small elite armies like custodes. I've been playing Warhammer for like 20 years now and I've never seen empty shelves everywhere I go like there has been in 8th. They are going to stick to this model until sales slow significantly

I see them republishing a new rulebook after a few years that will have all the FAQ's and fixes from Chapter Approved rolled into one so that people don't have to carry around 6 books to stay current. People will be salty about that, but they'll be salty about having to carry so many books around anyway.

I'm still curious as to which army actually requires 6 different books, unless we're now counting FAQs as "books". Worst case scenario, you would need index, codex, brb, and maybe CA. Apply sticky notes as needed.

I think they'll release 9th edition later this month, making 8th the first edition to not last a single year. :p

Op: Depends, they seem to like the 2-3 year cycle, it really does depend if they get all the Codex armies out.
The date tends to extend a bit when they try to put out a couple "all-new" armies near the tail end of the releases.
The real question is if plastic SOB is to be seen or whatever version of "Squats" they are thinking about.

Fun stuff, I think this is the most work I have done trying to finish the pile of miniatures I have collected over the decades.

I suspect this will be very similar to when 3rd edition came out, where yes re-release of the BRB with all the FAQ tweaks would be viable choice.
It was exciting times then, I do not see them needing to change much in the strategy from back then to now.

I hope this edition lasts for a while, at least.

I kinda wish they'd go to 9th and scrap the turns for alternating activations. As long as each army moves in entirety before the other army 40k will always boil down to mass fire alpha strikes. It's nearly impossible to balance or have deep tactics when turns are so lopsided.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
GW will never be able to be “super agile” until they ditch paper codexes. I’m not sure I want them to go this direction though, I like some stability in my games and GW’s rule revisions thend to be overly reactive and punative.

There's also something to be said for having a hard copy - I use computers all day at work and for me WH40K is a chance to escape the digital world (apart from Dakka of course ).

 deathwinguk wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
GW will never be able to be “super agile” until they ditch paper codexes. I’m not sure I want them to go this direction though, I like some stability in my games and GW’s rule revisions thend to be overly reactive and punative.

There's also something to be said for having a hard copy - I use computers all day at work and for me WH40K is a chance to escape the digital world (apart from Dakka of course ). I'm not totally against digital content though:

deathwinguk wrote:I'd rather they maintained a single shiny PDF to go with each book instead of separate scrappy errata / FAQs and then CA each year. I'd even pay a small yearly subscription for that.

But I want my core rules and codex in hard copy

I'm afraid those days died when the Internet came into being. With all this hyper-communication and super quick pitchfork mobs, no ruleset will ever last more than 6 weeks before the audience demands a re-write.

You know what will happen, right? New Sisters models & codex in May 2019 - then new edition that July, in which the Sisters are squatted.

 Stormonu wrote:
You know what will happen, right? New Sisters models & codex in May 2019 - then new edition that July, in which the Sisters are squatted.

That would be mega levels of f@q off. I'm not even sure GW is that evil.

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
You know what will happen, right? New Sisters models & codex in May 2019 - then new edition that July, in which the Sisters are squatted.

That would be mega levels of f@q off. I'm not even sure GW is that evil.

Yeah they've never done that *cough* AoS *cough*

9th isn’t happening anytime soon, but the “9TH IS NIGH WOE WOE” threads keep a-comin’

Heck, GW don’t even call it 8th.

hobojebus wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
You know what will happen, right? New Sisters models & codex in May 2019 - then new edition that July, in which the Sisters are squatted.

That would be mega levels of f@q off. I'm not even sure GW is that evil.

Yeah they've never done that *cough* AoS *cough*

Now I'm just having a series of flashbacks. Poor Dwarfs. Why does GW hate you so?

Flying Hive Tyrants hit adepticon so hard that they broke 8th edition and GW delayed the spring FAQ so they could write 9th. We're doomed, and stuff!

Danny slag wrote:
I kinda wish they'd go to 9th and scrap the turns for alternating activations. As long as each army moves in entirety before the other army 40k will always boil down to mass fire alpha strikes. It's nearly impossible to balance or have deep tactics when turns are so lopsided.

I agree completely with this statement.
8th edition was such a close re-write like Bolt Action as a ruleset I am surprised they did not go that extra step.
Many game systems use some approximation of alternating activation, it seems a bit stubborn to keep to the I-go/you-go method with all the alpha-strike complaints.

GW will do a new edition for 40K, that much is very certain, however what we don't know is how long the shelf life of 8th edition is. 3rd edition had the longest, at 6 years, and 6th edition had the shortest at 2 years.

GW don't publicise the editions by numbers, or at least very rarely do so, there may be the odd reference to previous editions when they release a new edition.

Personally, I long for an edition that scraps the player turn system and goes for an alternative activation system, I'd really like to see the dice system from Betrayal at Calth used, or just use that entire system modified for table top.

Alpha strike is a real problem that can end a game turn one.

Alternate activation isn't a new concept I really don't get why gw does not adopt it.

They prefer IGUGO for their game?

pm713 wrote:
They prefer IGUGO for their game?

No, GW prefers an Action/Reaction system
but over time with the "Fantasy and 40k must be different but similar" stuff got wired and 40k became more "fantasy in space" and they wre never able to adopted the preferred system for a shooting heavy modern SciFi game

That is why we have now an Action/Reaction, IGoUGo and alternate activation mix without a concept as some parts are just left overs from the past and others are ideas from other games that were added for the sake of change
a more streamlined version that focus on one type of game and stick to it through all releases would be a huge improvement

 deathwinguk wrote:
RT (1987)
2nd edition (1993)
3rd edition (1998)
4th edition (2004)
5th edition (2008)
6th edition (2012)
7th edition (2014)
8th edition (2017)

I played RT, and now I'm buying into 8th edition. It seems like the time between editions has halved over the years. Slimming down the core rules is good for the gameplay and for the ability to update it without releasing a new edition, but GW needs to find a sensible way to make updates without FAQ bloat.

So a new edition of AoS has just been announced, 3 years after the last edition. Given that's also the previous WH40K time between editions it's probably a good estimate for the future. So perhaps 9th edition in 2020?

 deathwinguk wrote:

 deathwinguk wrote:
RT (1987)
2nd edition (1993)
3rd edition (1998)
4th edition (2004)
5th edition (2008)
6th edition (2012)
7th edition (2014)
8th edition (2017)

I played RT, and now I'm buying into 8th edition. It seems like the time between editions has halved over the years. Slimming down the core rules is good for the gameplay and for the ability to update it without releasing a new edition, but GW needs to find a sensible way to make updates without FAQ bloat.

So a new edition of AoS has just been announced, 3 years after the last edition. Given that's also the previous WH40K time between editions it's probably a good estimate for the future. So perhaps 9th edition in 2020?

I am pretty sure GW wont give up on editions, its not like an RPG, it really can get to the point where enough FAQ and changes can make it completely new

What we might see is that new editions are more a clean up of FAQ and previous rule adjustments with a little bit of new stuff changed - as opposed to the historical edition changes where the adjustments are far more widespread.

Heck even if GW changed very little people would still buy into it just to have lal the rules updated in a single book instead of spread through FAQ, Errata, Rulebook, annual handbook etc...

 Overread wrote:
What we might see is that new editions are more a clean up of FAQ and previous rule adjustments with a little bit of new stuff changed - as opposed to the historical edition changes where the adjustments are far more widespread.

Heck even if GW changed very little people would still buy into it just to have lal the rules updated in a single book instead of spread through FAQ, Errata, Rulebook, annual handbook etc...

I would

 Overread wrote:
What we might see is that new editions are more a clean up of FAQ and previous rule adjustments with a little bit of new stuff changed - as opposed to the historical edition changes where the adjustments are far more widespread.

Heck even if GW changed very little people would still buy into it just to have lal the rules updated in a single book instead of spread through FAQ, Errata, Rulebook, annual handbook etc...

Yeah it really is more convenient, I hate FAQ, I dont have a cellphone or a printer, so I personally vastly prefer having hardcopy.

There was a rumor going around that the devs were bored out of their minds with 40k after the push for 8th. If they have any say in the matter, I would think that they would reluctant to start that meatgrinder up again.

Especially after the grief they get from all sides no matter what they do.

Jim they'll always get kickback however right now the 8th edition changes have brought so much additional income to GW that they beat everything else in London in the stock market. Even if the designers wanted to go back to the old style I doubt they'd be allowed to - the new approach is not just shown to be profitable but super-profitable. If anything I'd expect them to build on the strength of 8th edition. It makes not only good balance; good game but also good financial sense.

It's basically win-win for the vast majority of people

So, with the announcement of Codex: Space Wolves and Codex: Orks, how many more codexes are there to come? And how long after the final codex would people expect to be able to play 8th edition before it's retired?

Xeno wise there's only Genestealer Cults to come

Imperial wise we know Sisters of Battle are next year. After that it really depends how GW wants to take the rest of the Imperial line. The Assassins and Sisters of Silence both have no codex; so GW can either make them into full armies (or at least support armies).

 Overread wrote:
Xeno wise there's only Genestealer Cults to come

Imperial wise we know Sisters of Battle are next year. After that it really depends how GW wants to take the rest of the Imperial line. The Assassins and Sisters of Silence both have no codex; so GW can either make them into full armies (or at least support armies).

Sisters of silence are not getting a codex they are getting a "codex" in Imperial Armour Talons of the Emperor by the end of the year.

 Overread wrote:
Xeno wise there's only Genestealer Cults to come

I'm sure that the Ynnari will get something even if it's not a full codex.

There are also rumors of a new human faction.
We know for sure some Rogue Trader minis are coming with one of the Kill Team box set (but might be in a while), so maybe there will be a larger release.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Stux wrote:
My hunch is that 8th will be around for a while. I think they're trying out the living rules thing.

We may well get an 8.1 and so on, where they rerelease the rulebook and Codexes with updates and errata. But I don't expect a full reboot for several years.

I hope this is the case. Because I'm a big fan of 8th.

You should put out more battle reports. I enjoyed watching them.

Danny slag wrote:
I kinda wish they'd go to 9th and scrap the turns for alternating activations. As long as each army moves in entirety before the other army 40k will always boil down to mass fire alpha strikes. It's nearly impossible to balance or have deep tactics when turns are so lopsided.

The answer to the Alpha Strike is more LOS blocking terrain + proper deployment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
You know what will happen, right? New Sisters models & codex in May 2019 - then new edition that July, in which the Sisters are squatted.

Does seem to be the way of it, doesn't it?

You see the Christmas decorations go up, and you know Thanksgiving isn't far off.

You see a Sisters Codex, you know a new edition of the rules is maybe two months away.

phydaux wrote:

Danny slag wrote:
I kinda wish they'd go to 9th and scrap the turns for alternating activations. As long as each army moves in entirety before the other army 40k will always boil down to mass fire alpha strikes. It's nearly impossible to balance or have deep tactics when turns are so lopsided.

The answer to the Alpha Strike is more LOS blocking terrain + proper deployment.

Cheap troop screens are also an important part of the solution.

What if any army doesn't have any cheap troops? My basic line troops cost 40+pts without any heavy weapons added.

Karol wrote:
What if any army doesn't have any cheap troops? My basic line troops cost 40+pts without any heavy weapons added.

Imperial guard allies for your custodes

How is LOS Blocking terrain an answer to Alpha Strike?

On a related note, and I am in fact being serious, have we reached peak levels of "MORE TERRAIN!" and everyone is just using it as a joke to troll or do people really believe that adding more terrain will fix the game?

"Khorne Berserkers are OP and broken!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!
"Flyrants are ruining the game!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!
"There's too much terrain on the board to play anymore!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!!!!!!!!!

SemperMortis wrote:
How is LOS Blocking terrain an answer to Alpha Strike?

On a related note, and I am in fact being serious, have we reached peak levels of "MORE TERRAIN!" and everyone is just using it as a joke to troll or do people really believe that adding more terrain will fix the game?

"Khorne Berserkers are OP and broken!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!
"Flyrants are ruining the game!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!
"There's too much terrain on the board to play anymore!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!!!!!!!!!

my roommate uses khorne berserkers, they aint so bad. I mean their attacks and rules around them are super silly, but they are easy enough to kill.

 Overread wrote:
Xeno wise there's only Genestealer Cults to come

Imperial wise we know Sisters of Battle are next year. After that it really depends how GW wants to take the rest of the Imperial line. The Assassins and Sisters of Silence both have no codex; so GW can either make them into full armies (or at least support armies).

If Sisters get anything more than a 3 page article in the 2018 Chapter Approved I will be astonished.

Or more like the 2019 Chapter Approved, right on time for the 2020 drop of 9th Ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:
How is LOS Blocking terrain an answer to Alpha Strike?

On a related note, and I am in fact being serious, have we reached peak levels of "MORE TERRAIN!" and everyone is just using it as a joke to troll or do people really believe that adding more terrain will fix the game?

"Khorne Berserkers are OP and broken!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!
"Flyrants are ruining the game!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!
"There's too much terrain on the board to play anymore!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!!!!!!!!!

Terrain allows you to set up so you are behind LOS-blocking features so you can't be shot at if your gunline opponent gets first go. It also allows you to advance on objectives and not get shot at, or if you are shot at then it is only by a small portion of his army and not the whole gunline.

LOS blocking terrain negates some of the bad rules in this edition, so it is an answer to be used without having house rules
the same is for lowering point per battle and play 1000 instead of 2000 points.

1k points on a standard size table with lot of LOS blocking terrain is a complete different game

phydaux wrote:

If Sisters get anything more than a 3 page article in the 2018 Chapter Approved I will be astonished.

Or more like the 2019 Chapter Approved, right on time for the 2020 drop of 9th Ed.

Beta codex rules in 2018, codex in 2019 as per GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:
How is LOS Blocking terrain an answer to Alpha Strike?

On a related note, and I am in fact being serious, have we reached peak levels of "MORE TERRAIN!" and everyone is just using it as a joke to troll or do people really believe that adding more terrain will fix the game?

"Khorne Berserkers are OP and broken!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!
"Flyrants are ruining the game!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!
"There's too much terrain on the board to play anymore!" ADD MORE TERRAIN!!!!!!!!!

Allows you to protect key units from being blown.

Oh and does protect from assault units as well in a way adding more distance they need to cover. Makes it easier to funnel berserkers from key units.

But sure play on empty billiard table and see how it goes

Too much terrain and the armies with "ignore LOS" weapons are laughing at you, and shooting you from somewhere it will take ages to get to (and they can bubblewrap all the approaches out to 12" with about 10 men)

Mark.

I really wish GW would go back and do some new kits for some of the older lines. I'd love to see some new plastic Imperial Guard troops. Steel Legion, Mordians, etc. Would be awesome.

I can see 8th edition sticking around in one form or another, however, we are rapidly approaching a point where books will need to be reprinted as "8.1" books with updated rules. We are at the point where quite a few of the rules to play the game in the core rulebook are false now, and each Codex is barely worth the material it is printed on since so many units have had points/rules changes, or desperately need point changes.

8th has some great ideas, and is a decent foundation to build off of, it just needs some cleaning up at this point to have decent longevity.

9th won't come out anytime soon. Chapter Approved is like the DLC method, so GW will milk that

 deathwinguk wrote:

So a new edition of AoS has just been announced, 3 years after the last edition. Given that's also the previous WH40K time between editions it's probably a good estimate for the future. So perhaps 9th edition in 2020?

This is the most relevant information we can assess. GW being a public company will be driven by a relentless need for profit. While the majority of revenue comes from models their rules revenue is probably significant. Did AoS need a reboot?

 Vector Strike wrote:
9th won't come out anytime soon. Chapter Approved is like the DLC method, so GW will milk that

So is repeated edition releases that allow new starter sets etc.

GW didn't abandon edition system with AOS. Why you think they would abandon "print me some money" button for 40k?

" does protect from assault units as well in a way adding more distance they need to cover."

Difficult Terrain only interferes with Advance & Charge, not regular movement. So it doesn't slow down assault armies that much.

Unless you're talking about Impassable.

On a 6x4 table I like 2 pieces of Impassable and 6 pieces of Difficult, randomly placed. I find that breaks up shooting lanes & advancement routes nicely and adds variety.

A game store I used to play at had several tables that were old Games Day tables. They were beautiful to look at, and fun to play on AT FIRST. But because all the terrain features were mounded right into the table they got boring & predictable really fast.

phydaux wrote:
" does protect from assault units as well in a way adding more distance they need to cover."

Difficult Terrain only interferes with Advance & Charge, not regular movement. So it doesn't slow down assault armies that much.

Have big wall in there. How you suppose orks get through it fast? Can't just go through magically. Over and down? Say 5" tall wall. That's extra 10" to scale. Around? If said wall is 8" wide that's going sideways quite a bit...And with other terrain can create bottleneck.

What kind of LOS blocking terrain you use that's not going to force models to move around? Since I was talking about LOS blocking terrain any forest, 99% ruins etc are out.

 Nithaniel wrote:

 deathwinguk wrote:

So a new edition of AoS has just been announced, 3 years after the last edition. Given that's also the previous WH40K time between editions it's probably a good estimate for the future. So perhaps 9th edition in 2020?

This is the most relevant information we can assess. GW being a public company will be driven by a relentless need for profit. While the majority of revenue comes from models their rules revenue is probably significant. Did AoS need a reboot?

Age of Sigmar 2nd ed is not a reboot. It's an expansion of the currently used system with some new stuff thrown in. The closest you'll get to a reboot is the first General's Handbook and GW acknowledging that there wasn't enough of a market for the release version of Age of Sigmar. Even then it didn't change the rules foundation and just added structure to army building as a means to appease that section of (potential) customers. Since then they've gone back the tried and tested formulas for army books (with some cross pollination between AoS and 40k, and vice versa). There has also been an immense increase in lore and the game will benefit from presenting the setting to new players in the core rule book, which wasn't something that existed before for Age of Sigmar.

I wouldn't draw on the release of AoS 2nd ed after only three years to predict what's going to happen with 40k. AoS's release was botched, hastily fixed and then, in the normal time frame it takse for a project to go from concept to completion (2 years, give or take), got a new edition that GW is more confident they can sell. 40k 8th ed, by all accounts, seems to make the company a whole lot of money as is. They may want to consolidate all the Chapter Approved/FAQ changes they've done (and will keep doing) in a new edition and may want to get the sales boost of an edition change, so there's no reason to rule out a three year life span, but for the reasons stated I don't think it'll happen because Age of Sigmar sets the new trend.

2-3 year editions has been the trend for a while though...

"When is a new edition coming out?" is a good question, but the better question is "what will a new edition of 40k even look like?"

Look at AOS. They are getting a new edition... but IIRc the core rules will remain free, while generals handbook 2018 will update all points. Battletomes remain valid.

Prior editions of 40k have handled the switch in a variety of ways. 3rd and 8th editions invalidated all prior codexes and supplements. 4th, 5th, and 6th didn't affect either. 7th did require replacing a lot of supplements.

3rd edition is, in many ways, the most interesting possibility for how 8th plays out. 3rd edition was fairly heavily FAQ'd, and substantial rules changes were made mid edition, from the specific (giving terminators a 5++) to the sweeping (rewriting the assault and vehicle rules). By the end of 3rd, we were playing a very different game than in the beginning. It's also worth noting that in 3rd edition, GW rolled out a wave of codexes, then added new armies (necrons, tau, Daemonhunters, and even Dark Eldar), then went back to either revise prior codices (Dark Eldar, Dark Angels) or write them again from scratch (Chaos, IG).

GW really used 3rd edition to play with ideas. Not only were there many new armies (the most until 6th/7th), but they released tons of sublists and other materials. Two summer campaigns got full books (Armageddon and Eye of Terror), while they began the process of large scale introduction of plastic into the ranges.

So what does that mean going forward? I think that GW can keep the game in 8th for years, using patches to fix the rules and the codices. It can even add new units/models to armies (look at sly marbo) more like PP does, with more scattered releases not timed with a codex revision. OTOH, GW could easily release "9th" edition next summer, keeping all current books valid, but revising them in another cycle.

My guess is that they'll split the baby, and release an "updated" rulebook that includes all of the major core rules changes.

tneva82 wrote:
2-3 year editions has been the trend for a while though...

Warhammer Fantasy stuck with the 4-6 year cycles for a good long while, right to the end. So did 40k up until 6th ed. 6th ed got replaced after 2 years, 7th ed after 3 years. Purely by the numbers you could consider that a trend.

If you look deeper, there are factors at work which make it less clear cut. 5th ed was the last edition where GW had a good designer on board. With 6th ed the clowns took over completely. 6th ed wasn't good and 7th ed was downright catastrophic. You could read that as the designers not wanting to work with a modded 3rd ed rule set anymore, and just heaping imbalance and neglect on a system for continued releases and cash flow while they were putting all the work into replacing it with one that is to their liking.

If you believe that, there is at least reason to doubt that 2-3 years is the current trend.

Obviously the numbers for the past couple of years speak for themselves and it's more likely that accounting dictates when a new edition is released than the design studio. Just pointing out that you there may be other factors you may want to consider.

I expect them to stick to the old trusty release pattern they have done with 40k for decades. Periodic releases of editions and new versions of codexes. They have done nothing now that hints it won't be and indeed AOS shows already same pattern being done. Nothing GW has done with release schedule is particularly unique. Not even fast pace as such. Yes it's faster but monthly schedule(with new models) isn't unheard of. And now there's more factions so % of factions in period isn't that different.

Only really unique thing in current schedule is lack of models. Used to be codex is accompanied by pile of new model releases.

So maybe my opinion is invalid since I started a few months before the death of 7th ed. but I personally feel like 7th ed was just too much, the rules seemed convoluted and were difficult to learn in their entirety. 8th ed. has a nice clean and most importantly simple rule set for the base while not leaving to much to interpretation, yeah there are some things that FAQ had to clean up since common sense is severely lacking now a days, and sure some of the minutia can be tedious but if you look at the overall playablility of the game, and this part is important as I think too many folks forget that it is a game, 8th ed is a definite improvement over 7th. So I hope that GW keeps 8th around to stay for a good long time, and sure clean up the rules by listening to the community, frankly I intend to get my SW codex on my phone so I have a document that will be updated.

tneva82 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
9th won't come out anytime soon. Chapter Approved is like the DLC method, so GW will milk that

So is repeated edition releases that allow new starter sets etc.

GW didn't abandon edition system with AOS. Why you think they would abandon "print me some money" button for 40k?

AoS needs a new edition though, there are a ton of issues with the ruleset mechanically, and there is a lot more flavor being added to the game.

Yeah. There's a lot of advantages to AoS 2nd edition. The game has found its own voice recently instead of being "that thing that used to be WHFB". It's built up its own following and really needs a fresh start that can make use of that momentum and rid itself of some of the stigma form its initial launch.

The future of 40k is always worth a new thread.
In the 7th ed, GW started to release supplementary campaign books, especially with new formations in there.
Not sure if GW will go the same way in the 8th ed.
Indeed, the alternative would be to release a new edition after the last codex (Genestealer Cult?) has been issued.

Almost every army has a subfaction that might justify the production of a codex of mini-dex. These mini-dexes and small model releases could keep them going for years....or at least until the new version AOS plays out.

I don't see what the point is of rolling out a new edition unless you are going to make some material changes to at least some part of the game.

Even then, given the core rules are so light, you can probably just FAQ them.

AoS needs a new edition because the core design of the game has been chopped and changed (as was frankly inevitable given it was more or less dead on arrival). Points, measuring from the base, a cull of totally broken (and silly) rules etc were always going to be on the cards.

The logical thing would be to do a “revised” version of 8th that incorporates faqs and fixes learned so far. But that tends to sell poorly - see D&D 3.5E for an example.

9E will come, there’s no doubt, but I can say I will be hopping off the merry-go-round when it does. This was their best chance to fix the game for once and for all. While they did make it better, in the end I think they blew their chance to make it right and instead went with “make it easier for the designers, point balancing gives us designers headaches”.

 ServiceGames wrote:
This is not intended to be a troll thread at all. I'm just curious what you all truly think.

With only a handful of codices remaining to be released, GW will have everything finished for 8th Edition with the exception of FAQs and this year's Chapter Approved update.

So, it makes me wonder, it's GW going to treat 8th Edition like AoS and keep it around essentially indefinitely only making changes to it via FAQs and a yearly Chapter Approved. Or do you think that once they get all of the codices out, they'll start the push to 9th Edition providing maybe one more update to Chapter Approved and the FAQs before making the switch?

SG

I really hope 8th edition is going to last for some years. I'm hoping that because I basically played 8th edition since 2 months (drukhari codex release) and 75% of my miniatures still don't have a codex. Without a codex there's no fun in playing 8th edition, worst edition if you're forced to rely on the index.

 Blackie wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
This is not intended to be a troll thread at all. I'm just curious what you all truly think.

With only a handful of codices remaining to be released, GW will have everything finished for 8th Edition with the exception of FAQs and this year's Chapter Approved update.

So, it makes me wonder, it's GW going to treat 8th Edition like AoS and keep it around essentially indefinitely only making changes to it via FAQs and a yearly Chapter Approved. Or do you think that once they get all of the codices out, they'll start the push to 9th Edition providing maybe one more update to Chapter Approved and the FAQs before making the switch?

SG

I really hope 8th edition is going to last for some years. I'm hoping that because I basically played 8th edition since 2 months (drukhari codex release) and 75% of my miniatures still don't have a codex. Without a codex there's no fun in playing 8th edition, worst edition if you're forced to rely on the index.

Y'know some of us play space marines, we desperately need a new codex too. I'd explode in my undies if they released a new marine codex alongside a new Badab Imperial Armour book.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
This is not intended to be a troll thread at all. I'm just curious what you all truly think.

With only a handful of codices remaining to be released, GW will have everything finished for 8th Edition with the exception of FAQs and this year's Chapter Approved update.

So, it makes me wonder, it's GW going to treat 8th Edition like AoS and keep it around essentially indefinitely only making changes to it via FAQs and a yearly Chapter Approved. Or do you think that once they get all of the codices out, they'll start the push to 9th Edition providing maybe one more update to Chapter Approved and the FAQs before making the switch?

SG

I really hope 8th edition is going to last for some years. I'm hoping that because I basically played 8th edition since 2 months (drukhari codex release) and 75% of my miniatures still don't have a codex. Without a codex there's no fun in playing 8th edition, worst edition if you're forced to rely on the index.

Y'know some of us play space marines, we desperately need a new codex too. I'd explode in my undies if they released a new marine codex alongside a new Badab Imperial Armour book.

You had a few months of good gaming at least. And SM are not that bad in casual metas, at least ultramarines and ravenguard.

8th ed has brought me back to the game. I hope it sticks around a bit longer.

Tyel wrote:
I don't see what the point is of rolling out a new edition unless you are going to make some material changes to at least some part of the game.

Even then, given the core rules are so light, you can probably just FAQ them.

AoS needs a new edition because the core design of the game has been chopped and changed (as was frankly inevitable given it was more or less dead on arrival). Points, measuring from the base, a cull of totally broken (and silly) rules etc were always going to be on the cards.

The reason any games company throws out a new edition, warranted or not, is because it brings in a huge influx of cash because everyone who wants to play will buy the new book.

I will be surprised if we get a 9th edition of 40K. AoS needs it, somewhat, but I was always under the impression that the point of 8th was that it was a living game system that would just be updated by FAQ, errata and the adjustments of points in Chapter Approved.

 BlackLobster wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I don't see what the point is of rolling out a new edition unless you are going to make some material changes to at least some part of the game.

Even then, given the core rules are so light, you can probably just FAQ them.

AoS needs a new edition because the core design of the game has been chopped and changed (as was frankly inevitable given it was more or less dead on arrival). Points, measuring from the base, a cull of totally broken (and silly) rules etc were always going to be on the cards.

The reason any games company throws out a new edition, warranted or not, is because it brings in a huge influx of cash because everyone who wants to play will buy the new book.

I will be surprised if we get a 9th edition of 40K. AoS needs it, somewhat, but I was always under the impression that the point of 8th was that it was a living game system that would just be updated by FAQ, errata and the adjustments of points in Chapter Approved.

The thing is 8th edition is probably going to run into the same issue as AoS in another year or so with 2 CA 4Big FAQ's and all the respective codex FAQ's being a bit of a mess.

I don't think a full 9th edition is the best idea. I'd rather an 8.1 or 8.5 edition with all the FAQ Errata etc and fixed core rules and some actual terrain/cover rules added in a rules only fluff free book so that it doesn't need to be a hardback monster containing almost 70% irrelevant to the game.
Fluff is cool but models, Codex's, Imperial Armours, Captor Approved, Datacards, Dice and FAQ's are more than enough to be taking to every game.