I love terrain, and I want more.
The new expansions were exciting -
cool stuff, nice enough price, Killteam support bonus.
But, I am NOT interested in buying them.
I wanted to be.
But GW went and made the gaming boards 22x30.
Why not 24x36?
Double sided, there are so many options
to build full sized tables using these card boards for Killteam.
Buy four kits and end up with a 6x4 table.
Mix and match with friends, and share terrain and boards and...
Scale up, playing 3x4 for smaller games of 40k,
using single boards for Killteam,
and so on up to...
But GW made the boards 22x30.
The sheer madness of it has turned me off of Killteam altogether, frankly.
Just seems like a missed opportunity to me.
Too markety-niche-profit maximizy,
and not hobby-optimal.
So, I won't be giving GW marketing squids my money - bottom line.
I can find terrain bundles other places, other ways.
Have enough models to Killteam to the cows come home.
If I might have been able to use these expansion kits to, well, expand,
then I was chompin at the bit to pick up a couple.
But...
Anyone else feel this way?
Other observations?
edit: "there sheer madness" to "the sheer madness"...
So you're no longer interested in Kill Team because Kill Team isn't making trade-offs in the design for Kill Team just to make it easier to use bits for things not-Kill Team, notably a cardboard 40K-table nobody ever asked for anyhow?
Seems strange.
Also, if getting your 40K onto a cardboard surface is your main concern, just play it on a 3.6' by 5' or 5.5' by 5' table made from Kill Team stuff. 6'x4' is kinda 2012 anyhow.
Sunny Side Up wrote: So you're no longer interested in Kill Team because Kill Team isn't making trade-offs in the design for Kill Team just to make it easier to use bits for things not-Kill Team, notably a cardboard 40K-table nobody ever asked for anyhow?
Seems strange.
Also, if getting your 40K onto a cardboard surface is your main concern, just play it on a 3.6' by 5' or 5.5' by 5' table made from Kill Team stuff. 6'x4' is kinda 2012 anyhow.
Yeah I get it after Moon Base Klausius (spelling?)
people shouldn't care about standard table sizes right?
Cuz 8th is all about using what you got, right?
As long as you got 2 codexes and 2 indexes and 2 rulebooks and the cards,
and a ton of LoS blocking terrain (duct taped windows, included),
then you can throw down on your kitchen table
...
Yeah.
No, I am not into these Expansions because they don't expand.
Well.
In a thought out way.
Into what is ideally a 40k table.
Because Killteam is sort of mini 40k,
I see no reason for an inconsistent form factor.
My left brain thus says no to the sub-optimality ...
You're choosing to give up a perfectly good game because someone made a design decision to make Kill Team better rather than fitting to the established table sizing.
You and I will need to agree to disagree I think. It's my opinion that Kill Team expands 40k in a good way. I think that deviating from established standards means that it *WAS* thought-out; had they chosen to stick to standards we may have thought that they didn't ask the question to determine whether it was good for the game.
Cardboard table is lame anyway. I wish they'd sell individual Realm of Battle tiles so that I could just buy one of those for this game. I'm too cheap to buy the full set.
If you want to use KT boards on a regular 6'x4' table, there's no reason on earth you can't put a board in the center of each table quadrant. Each board just ends up with an undecorated border of a few inches around it--which might make for better visual transitions between different boards anyway.
To muster the energy to publicly complain about this, of all things, strikes me as bizarre.
I was confused about this whole "Kill Team Expansions" topic, thinking that it was perhaps about the individual kill teams they've released as get starter sets for some armies and how they missed the boat on some things, or that there was some complaint that they said they wouldn't be including daemons in future expansions on the Facebook.
Basically I wasn't expecting this to be a complaint that the Kill Team game, which already had some mechanics not found in regular 40k, doesn't match regular 40k due to slightly different sizes for board space. I felt like I walked into a BoLS article once I saw what this was actually about.
My confusion aside, you're tossing out a perfectly functional game that may be even better balanced than regular 40k just because you can't use the boards to make a full sized 40k table?
I've heard some petty things in this hobby, but that might be the pettiest one I've heard to date.
I can think of allot of reasons not to touch games GW makes now...but the boards being smaller than standard is...weird as hell for a reason.
It's just an area to play on...who cares if it's not exactly done in 12" sections.
That's stupid.
Heck my gaming area for everything is100×100cm. And I hope to make it 150x150cm.
ClockworkZion wrote: I've heard some petty things in this hobby, but that might be the pettiest one I've heard to date.
I dunno. I have seen members of this forum state clearly and publicly they would refuse to play an opponent if they haven't spent an equal amount of money on their army as they have.
ValentineGames wrote: I can think of allot of reasons not to touch games GW makes now...but the boards being smaller than standard is...weird as hell for a reason.
It's just an area to play on...who cares if it's not exactly done in 12" sections.
That's stupid.
Heck my gaming area for everything is100×100cm. And I hope to make it 150x150cm.
ClockworkZion wrote: I've heard some petty things in this hobby, but that might be the pettiest one I've heard to date.
I dunno. I have seen members of this forum state clearly and publicly they would refuse to play an opponent if they haven't spent an equal amount of money on their army as they have.
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My point is not about killteam as a game but specifically about the expansions ... That dont really expand.
Seems a pretty straightforward idea.
I might play the game when i have time to play games again someday but i wont be buying these boxes for this reason...
So far as i can tell only one respondent seems to have even read my op well enuf to understand it.
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ClockworkZion wrote: I was confused about this whole "Kill Team Expansions" topic, thinking that it was perhaps about the individual kill teams they've released as get starter sets for some armies and how they missed the boat on some things, or that there was some complaint that they said they wouldn't be including daemons in future expansions on the Facebook.
Basically I wasn't expecting this to be a complaint that the Kill Team game, which already had some mechanics not found in regular 40k, doesn't match regular 40k due to slightly different sizes for board space. I felt like I walked into a BoLS article once I saw what this was actually about.
My confusion aside, you're tossing out a perfectly functional game that may be even better balanced than regular 40k just because you can't use the boards to make a full sized 40k table?
I've heard some petty things in this hobby, but that might be the pettiest one I've heard to date.
Not "tossing out" the game.
Just the non expanding expansions
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Sunny Side Up wrote: So you're no longer interested in Kill Team because Kill Team isn't making trade-offs in the design for Kill Team just to make it easier to use bits for things not-Kill Team, notably a cardboard 40K-table nobody ever asked for anyhow?
Seems strange.
Also, if getting your 40K onto a cardboard surface is your main concern, just play it on a 3.6' by 5' or 5.5' by 5' table made from Kill Team stuff. 6'x4' is kinda 2012 anyhow.
Again.EXPANSIONS....
WOW.
English suddenly a third language or are people on dakka usin lots of pills?
ClockworkZion wrote: I've heard some petty things in this hobby, but that might be the pettiest one I've heard to date.
I dunno. I have seen members of this forum state clearly and publicly they would refuse to play an opponent if they haven't spent an equal amount of money on their army as they have.
That is some of the most elitist behavior I've ever heard of. I mean...seriously?
Do they play Forgeworld model armies too just so they can flaunt their wealth too?
Again.EXPANSIONS....
WOW.
English suddenly a third language or are people on dakka usin lots of pills?
Hm....Googling "game expansion" got me this (bolded the important part for emphasis):
An expansion pack, expansion set, supplement, or simply expansion is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game, video game or collectible card game. These add-ons usually add new game areas, weapons, objects, characters and/or an extended storyline to an already released game.
I don't think a bit of cardboard and some terrain is really an expansion since it's part of the initial release and not an expansion to the existing game.
So it's less that people don't understand the word, but more this chestnut:
That said, it should be pointed out that even if you personally don't like the cardboard mat you could still pick up the starter if it has armies you play as it's a cheap way to get more models bundled with terrain. If they aren't the army you play anyways then don't bother with it and wait for the terrain kits to come out on their own or in a terrain bundle and pick them up that way if you need/want more ruined buildings for your table. Basically it's not worth complaining about a cardboard mat you don't like when it's not really an expansion to the game and only serves as a way of providing context for the terrain kit they provided and could easily be replaced with a well made board or even with any of those printed mousepad style game mats which tend to look nicer than the cardboard ones do anyways.
I too saw the Killteam cars base and thought “oh, I could get multiples and have a poor man’s realm of battle!” Much the same way I saw the Necromunda card tiles and thought “now I have a cheap zone mortalis!” But, then I saw the dimensions and realized that was still not an option. So, that’s a shame - GW could do well selling 2’ x 2’ card tiles for cheap realms of battle. So, I too was bummed.
But, Killsone isn’t meant to be a 40k starter either. It’s GW giving a skirmish game in their most popular setting with their most popular armies that can be played on a regulation dinner table, not a game table. To that end, the expansions are lovely, creating themed visually appealing backdrops that even provide thematic rules. As an expansion to 40k they’re only okay, as an expansion to Killteam they are excellent.
If you really dig the terrain then just get it. The boards are just the cherry on top. You aren't required to play on them, but you can if you want to. Or just toss them in the trash and make your own board. GW have never mandated board size AFAIK, 6*4 has just been the standard, which I believe is due to it being the largest table that isn't inconvenient to use.
Though do consider that these boards and expansions were made specifically for kill team, using them in 40k is just a bonus and a 40" by 60" board is still a reasonable size for 40k. If you really want to you can just make it a 5' by 5'.
It just seems silly to not buy in if this is the only con to the box, esp since the terrain is actually cheaper when it comes with the board.
I was put off by the playing area, as well (among other things). After watching some batreps, I think it is fair to say that the playing space, combined with the fact that weapons ranges and movement values are the same as in base 40k, is in fact too small for movement/positioning to be as large a part of gameplay as I would like. (The terrain density in the games is also a factor)
I think it is equally fair to say the the kill zone boxes aren't really "expansions" in the sense that they don't build very much on the base game the way say, a D&D supplement gives you new classes, spells, etc. I expect the first expansion to unlock some of the missing unit options, and maybe Inquisition and weapons & equipment.
I have no skin in the game, but I will agree that 24x36" would have actually been much smarter and would have grabbed numerous 40K players who may not be buying into Killteam. A lot of players are interested in quick and easy options for gaming mats, and 6'x4' really is the standard size these days.
Opportunity missed. I don't think it's some knock on Kill Team itself, but they did probably lose some sales because of the odd size choice.
From what I can tell the main thing regarding the board is how far away the two sides start from each other. Beyond that it doesn’t really matter how big the boards are.
I play on our dining room table. It’s 44”x72”. I have a few of the fat mats plus all sorts of terrain. I even use this table when we play xwing or armada, just with a star field map. As long as we define the outer boundaries and have the deployment zones more than 24” then we are good.
Crimson wrote: Cardboard table is lame anyway. I wish they'd sell individual Realm of Battle tiles so that I could just buy one of those for this game. I'm too cheap to buy the full set.
I was just going to say they do, but I just checked the GW site and nope. They're gone. GW, you used to sell them on their own- what gives?
Peregrine wrote: Why are we assuming that the non-standard size makes the game better, instead of being better for GW's production or packaging concerns?
Why are we assuming anything before most of us have had a chance to play a few games?
Peregrine wrote: Why are we assuming that the non-standard size makes the game better, instead of being better for GW's production or packaging concerns?
My thoughts exactly, they likely did it because it was the biggest they could fit in the box.
Sunny Side Up wrote: So you're no longer interested in Kill Team because Kill Team isn't making trade-offs in the design for Kill Team just to make it easier to use bits for things not-Kill Team, notably a cardboard 40K-table nobody ever asked for anyhow?
Seems strange.
Also, if getting your 40K onto a cardboard surface is your main concern, just play it on a 3.6' by 5' or 5.5' by 5' table made from Kill Team stuff. 6'x4' is kinda 2012 anyhow.
Who in right mind would play 40k in 3.6'x5.5'? That's smaller than 6'x4' which is already too small for 40k these days. You need more like 8'x5'. Bggger if possible
Elbows wrote: I have no skin in the game, but I will agree that 24x36" would have actually been much smarter and would have grabbed numerous 40K players who may not be buying into Killteam. A lot of players are interested in quick and easy options for gaming mats, and 6'x4' really is the standard size these days.
Opportunity missed. I don't think it's some knock on Kill Team itself, but they did probably lose some sales because of the odd size choice.
Sunny Side Up wrote: So you're no longer interested in Kill Team because Kill Team isn't making trade-offs in the design for Kill Team just to make it easier to use bits for things not-Kill Team, notably a cardboard 40K-table nobody ever asked for anyhow?
Seems strange.
Also, if getting your 40K onto a cardboard surface is your main concern, just play it on a 3.6' by 5' or 5.5' by 5' table made from Kill Team stuff. 6'x4' is kinda 2012 anyhow.
Who in right mind would play 40k in 3.6'x5.5'? That's smaller than 6'x4' which is already too small for 40k these days. You need more like 8'x5'. Bggger if possible
My feelings exactly.
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Peregrine wrote: Why are we assuming that the non-standard size makes the game better, instead of being better for GW's production or packaging concerns?
Yup.
Thanks.
I was unable to make this point so clearly.
This is lovely.
Peregrine wrote: Why are we assuming that the non-standard size makes the game better, instead of being better for GW's production or packaging concerns?
My thoughts exactly, they likely did it because it was the biggest they could fit in the box.
Great minds, bro.
Great minds.
Or was that livers?
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clively wrote: From what I can tell the main thing regarding the board is how far away the two sides start from each other. Beyond that it doesn’t really matter how big the boards are.
I play on our dining room table. It’s 44”x72”. I have a few of the fat mats plus all sorts of terrain. I even use this table when we play xwing or armada, just with a star field map. As long as we define the outer boundaries and have the deployment zones more than 24” then we are good.
Yeah, practicality reigns in the real world no doubt.
The size makes sense. Outside of the gaming world, 30x30 is a common size for a table. So, a 30x22 board would fit, with a bit of room for rolls, tokens and dead models.
The fold-out poster map is an odd size, I'll give you that - but it's not putting me off from buying Killteam stuff. Quite the opposite, I ordered just the mat off e-bay by itself, and I'm hoping to score 2-3 more if I can. Heck, I'd also like to get my hands on some Overkill and possibly new Necromunda tiles.
It would be nice if GW would do 12" X 12" chipboard tiles you could puzzle together into the battlefield of your choice - something that's boardgame thickness and folds away for easy storage. Hell, a "battlefield in a box", made of cardboard and boardgame tiles would be a great idea, I think and would be something I'd easily buy into to cover (multiple) 4' X 6' tables, especially if it wasn't just the "mat" but fold up ruins, wrecks and other items that all fit into a neat box on the shelf when I was finished.
Stormonu wrote: The fold-out poster map is an odd size, I'll give you that - but it's not putting me off from buying Killteam stuff. Quite the opposite, I ordered just the mat off e-bay by itself, and I'm hoping to score 2-3 more if I can. Heck, I'd also like to get my hands on some Overkill and possibly new Necromunda tiles.
It would be nice if GW would do 12" X 12" chipboard tiles you could puzzle together into the battlefield of your choice - something that's boardgame thickness and folds away for easy storage. Hell, a "battlefield in a box", made of cardboard and boardgame tiles would be a great idea, I think and would be something I'd easily buy into to cover (multiple) 4' X 6' tables, especially if it wasn't just the "mat" but fold up ruins, wrecks and other items that all fit into a neat box on the shelf when I was finished.
Yeah, I was thinking something similar, maybe 2x3 tho, but 12squ would be fine.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Who cares? It's packaged with 22x30, but you can play on a bigger one if you want. Nothing's stopping you. Kill Team is Kill Team, not 40k.
The main priority of the expansions is a cheap(er) collection of terrain and some extra rules - not for a sheet of cardboard.
The point is that the product could have been useful for other games and therefore a more appealing purpose if it was a standard 24x24 size, but instead it's an awkward 22x30 that will see zero use anywhere else and zero additional sales.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Who cares? It's packaged with 22x30, but you can play on a bigger one if you want. Nothing's stopping you. Kill Team is Kill Team, not 40k.
The main priority of the expansions is a cheap(er) collection of terrain and some extra rules - not for a sheet of cardboard.
The point is that the product could have been useful for other games and therefore a more appealing purpose if it was a standard 24x24 size, but instead it's an awkward 22x30 that will see zero use anywhere else and zero additional sales.
Demonstrably flase. Hyperbole again.
We've already had people state they plan to buy and use the Kill Zone sets for 40k. Some people aren't fussed about hitting 6x4.
Now it might have had greater additional sales sure, but let's keep it reasonable.
The mechanicum killzone is $80 with twice that in terrain in the box. So the mat is a silly KT size. If you want a RoB board you can use the savings on the terrain to get yourself one. 40k players in the mood for terrain are getting a deal with the Killzone boxes (compared to regular GW prices anyways, I play Sisters, your pain amuses me)...
Seriously though. I think the Kill Team board size is deliberate. They fit quite nicely on tables that are normally used to play Magic. Opportunity lost to give everyone cheap RoB boards? Perhaps. Opportunity to break in to a new market with a small buy in game that doesn't require stores themselves to reconfigure their layout just to play the game? Seems likely.
Well, you could buy 6 expansions and make a 3ft8" x 7ft6" (44"x90") board. Could even rip off 1ft6" and have a 3ft8" x 6ft? Plus a gakk ton of GW Terrain at a bargain
Odrankt wrote: Well, you could buy 6 expansions and make a 3ft8" x 7ft6" (44"x90") board. Could even rip off 1ft6" and have a 3ft8" x 6ft? Plus a gakk ton of GW Terrain at a bargain
To have reasonabie board for 40k you just need then 1 row for first. 2nd is masochism unless you ply like 1000pts games
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Who cares? It's packaged with 22x30, but you can play on a bigger one if you want. Nothing's stopping you. Kill Team is Kill Team, not 40k.
The main priority of the expansions is a cheap(er) collection of terrain and some extra rules - not for a sheet of cardboard.
The point is that the product could have been useful for other games and therefore a more appealing purpose if it was a standard 24x24 size, but instead it's an awkward 22x30 that will see zero use anywhere else and zero additional sales.
Demonstrably flase. Hyperbole again.
We've already had people state they plan to buy and use the Kill Zone sets for 40k. Some people aren't fussed about hitting 6x4.
Now it might have had greater additional sales sure, but let's keep it reasonable.
Ummm.. Nope.
Demonstrably true.
As in
this very thread is a demonstration that what Peregrine says is truth.
Hey guys! GW has stated the boards for this and Shadespire fit standard card tables in most gaming shops. If you go to a store and look, they're right. It is perfect! It's not a conspiracy, its not a missed opportunity. In fact, new players are going to try to play it on those tables - not try to put together a dozen of them to make the best apocalypse table in the world. Happy to help!
I will not be investing and if the boards could be scaled up into standard 40k then I would.
That is zero.
A zero sure but certainly Peregrone's statement is true.
Generally sure i can see some kids linin up a couple boards to play 40k as well as their allowances might allow
All the while aspiring to play on a standard table
And cursing GW for making them save up for another game board of the proper size.
Sooooo... I would count that as a less than zero in the end.
You want to have a standard 1850pt game on a 44x60inch table then roll onward but especially in this bloated alpha srike dominated edition well... Enjoy. I would count that as a less tjan zero too.
So i will go farther to say that this sort of marketing to try to spin 40k into multiple standalone systems with apparently zero crossover potential and no plans for it (this is my big disappointment with these expansion boxes) will breed confusion and ultimately resentment enough to nullify any novice killteam board usage. Sum thus zero.
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mugginns wrote: Hey guys! GW has stated the boards for this and Shadespire fit standard card tables in most gaming shops. If you go to a store and look, they're right. It is perfect! It's not a conspiracy, its not a missed opportunity. In fact, new players are going to try to play it on those tables - not try to put together a dozen of them to make the best apocalypse table in the world. Happy to help!
Yeay. A card game!!!!
Cards are low overhead high profit margin often lost or wrecked with beer spillage. Great idea. Now if we can just get rid of these pesky models and the idea that this is a scale wargame then finally we can all hold hands around a card table to play KillTeam:the gathering
Stux wrote: It's not true. Zero use and zero sales? Absolutely false.
Bit exaggerated yes but you need 9 of those minimum for 40k game. Basically if you plan to play kill team AND 40k might just as well get proper one. This sells for kill team but for 40k bad option.
You have made it very clear that standard board size is important to you. What I don't get is why you would skip out on a good deal for terrain you actually like and for a rules set that is likely superior to 8th just because the bonus starter board wasn't standard size.
Missed opportunity? Sure.
Reason to skip the product? Not really.
Also, I seriously doubt most casual players even have a 4 by 6 table to begin with. I know I'm going to use 4 boards to play 40k knowing full well that isn't "standard" cuz I really don't care. I'm not sure I've ever even played on a standard table (I've come close I suppose but never exactly 4 by 6, usually due to table size).
Lastly, you may want to reconsider mugginns post. He's saying that the board size is extremely convenient for every possible non-40k gamer/geek out there. Of course if you were trying to be funny then whatever I guess.
Anyway if you're done venting can we move on? Maybe send an email to GW for a 4 by 6 board for sale on the cheap and call it good?
mugginns wrote: Hey guys! GW has stated the boards for this and Shadespire fit standard card tables in most gaming shops. If you go to a store and look, they're right. It is perfect! It's not a conspiracy, its not a missed opportunity. In fact, new players are going to try to play it on those tables - not try to put together a dozen of them to make the best apocalypse table in the world. Happy to help!
Yeay. A card game!!!!
Cards are low overhead high profit margin often lost or wrecked with beer spillage. Great idea. Now if we can just get rid of these pesky models and the idea that this is a scale wargame then finally we can all hold hands around a card table to play KillTeam:the gathering
Dandelion wrote: You have made it very clear that standard board size is important to you. What I don't get is why you would skip out on a good deal for terrain you actually like and for a rules set that is likely superior to 8th just because the bonus starter board wasn't standard size.
Missed opportunity? Sure.
Reason to skip the product? Not really.
Also, I seriously doubt most casual players even have a 4 by 6 table to begin with. I know I'm going to use 4 boards to play 40k knowing full well that isn't "standard" cuz I really don't care. I'm not sure I've ever even played on a standard table (I've come close I suppose but never exactly 4 by 6, usually due to table size).
Lastly, you may want to reconsider mugginns post. He's saying that the board size is extremely convenient for every possible non-40k gamer/geek out there. Of course if you were trying to be funny then whatever I guess.
Anyway if you're done venting can we move on? Maybe send an email to GW for a 4 by 6 board for sale on the cheap and call it good?
4 of those kill team boards? I hope max point size is 500pts or it's self torture rather than 40k. Hell even 4'x6' is too small for 1500-2000 pts 40k.
They are cardboardish, so yes. Though I suspect you would want to leave complete boards in the middle and just use the cuts at the edge so you don't blow up the pattern and spoil the look.
Dandelion wrote: You have made it very clear that standard board size is important to you. What I don't get is why you would skip out on a good deal for terrain you actually like and for a rules set that is likely superior to 8th just because the bonus starter board wasn't standard size.
Missed opportunity? Sure.
Reason to skip the product? Not really.
Also, I seriously doubt most casual players even have a 4 by 6 table to begin with. I know I'm going to use 4 boards to play 40k knowing full well that isn't "standard" cuz I really don't care. I'm not sure I've ever even played on a standard table (I've come close I suppose but never exactly 4 by 6, usually due to table size).
Lastly, you may want to reconsider mugginns post. He's saying that the board size is extremely convenient for every possible non-40k gamer/geek out there. Of course if you were trying to be funny then whatever I guess.
Anyway if you're done venting can we move on? Maybe send an email to GW for a 4 by 6 board for sale on the cheap and call it good?
4 of those kill team boards? I hope max point size is 500pts or it's self torture rather than 40k. Hell even 4'x6' is too small for 1500-2000 pts 40k.
750 pts to 1000 pts is usually what I play. And 4 boards gets you 44" by 60" or a 4ish by 5 board. Since I've been playing 4 by 4 already it's actually bigger.
I am not saying you are wrong Original Poster since you have your opinion and it doesn't suit you. My question is, what is really the problem?
Are you planning to use the boards for 40K games instead of Kill Teams? Is it just a preference to play on a bigger board? The board while smaller is not that much smaller I believe. Do you really play on the edges all the time that those extra 6" or so make a difference?
Do you have your objectives on the edges to need the extra range? All I see most games of 40K is just like Warmahordes. Rush to the middle to pew pew everyone. I never see the extra space/range being used EXCEPT for turn one. That is it.
So I am trying to understand why it's such a big issue for you. Again, not saying you are wrong, just trying to understand your opinion.
Given how slapdash KillTeam feels as a final product, the 'they made a decision to make KT better' defense that keeps showing up, here, feels really weird.
They didn't sculpt any new models, if they play-tested the rules, they certainly didnt spend much time formatting the rule book, the campaign rules are a total after-thought (those injuries...what?), and I think any three of us, in a room, could have knocked out the pages and pages of 'fluff generation' in an afternoon.
Everything about this format is starting to feel like a naked cash grab, to me, I'm inclined to wonder if 2'x3', and the box to hold it, wasn't just too pricey for their desires, so they ended up with some random size that hit their desired margins.
Mmmpi wrote: The size makes sense. Outside of the gaming world, 30x30 is a common size for a table. So, a 30x22 board would fit, with a bit of room for rolls, tokens and dead models.
Honestly I bet this is it. My store for example uses a ton of food up tables that has similar dimensions. The weird size of kill teams battle mats fits them perfectly. It's possible that's why they picked the odd size, since a 24x36 would overhang a bit. That weird size let's them move into card shops and places that don't have big tables like 40k needs. I don't think the overhang would've been that big of a deal, but who knows, maybe GW thought it was.
I'd rather they have been 24x36 as well, but to be fair you'd need 4 Matt's to make an actual 6x4 table. Unless a whole group combines theirs most people arent going to have that many and if they do none of them are likely to match.
Mmmpi wrote: The size makes sense. Outside of the gaming world, 30x30 is a common size for a table. So, a 30x22 board would fit, with a bit of room for rolls, tokens and dead models.
Honestly I bet this is it. My store for example uses a ton of food up tables that has similar dimensions. The weird size of kill teams battle mats fits them perfectly. It's possible that's why they picked the odd size, since a 24x36 would overhang a bit. That weird size let's them move into card shops and places that don't have big tables like 40k needs. I don't think the overhang would've been that big of a deal, but who knows, maybe GW thought it was.
I'd rather they have been 24x36 as well, but to be fair you'd need 4 Matt's to make an actual 6x4 table. Unless a whole group combines theirs most people arent going to have that many and if they do none of them are likely to match.
Yeah, I just measured my kitchen table, which is big enough for four if you don't have the serving dishes on it. It's 24"x36".
My furniture aside, it seems like a push for "kitchen table" gaming. Besides, they did say that you could play on a larger gaming table.
jeff white wrote: I will not be investing and if the boards could be scaled up into standard 40k then I would.
That is zero.
A zero sure but certainly Peregrone's statement is true.
Generally sure i can see some kids linin up a couple boards to play 40k as well as their allowances might allow
All the while aspiring to play on a standard table
And cursing GW for making them save up for another game board of the proper size.
Sooooo... I would count that as a less than zero in the end.
You want to have a standard 1850pt game on a 44x60inch table then roll onward but especially in this bloated alpha srike dominated edition well... Enjoy. I would count that as a less tjan zero too.
So i will go farther to say that this sort of marketing to try to spin 40k into multiple standalone systems with apparently zero crossover potential and no plans for it (this is my big disappointment with these expansion boxes) will breed confusion and ultimately resentment enough to nullify any novice killteam board usage. Sum thus zero.
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mugginns wrote: Hey guys! GW has stated the boards for this and Shadespire fit standard card tables in most gaming shops. If you go to a store and look, they're right. It is perfect! It's not a conspiracy, its not a missed opportunity. In fact, new players are going to try to play it on those tables - not try to put together a dozen of them to make the best apocalypse table in the world. Happy to help!
Yeay. A card game!!!!
Cards are low overhead high profit margin often lost or wrecked with beer spillage. Great idea. Now if we can just get rid of these pesky models and the idea that this is a scale wargame then finally we can all hold hands around a card table to play KillTeam:the gathering
I will be using these mats for 40K games, I think they are a great alternative to more expensive alternatives (and I do already own several of the more expensive alternatives).
And what idiot would set a beer or other drink on a table with paper mats? That what a TV tray or side table is for.
At this point, you are just complaining to complain because YOU don't like them and you don't want anyone else to either.
Stux wrote: It's not true. Zero use and zero sales? Absolutely false.
Bit exaggerated yes but you need 9 of those minimum for 40k game. Basically if you plan to play kill team AND 40k might just as well get proper one. This sells for kill team but for 40k bad option.
How big market kill team only players are?
Fair enough, but to be fair even if they were 24x36 you'd still need 6 sets which is quite a lot!
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jeff white wrote: I will not be investing and if the boards could be scaled up into standard 40k then I would.
That is zero.
A zero sure but certainly Peregrone's statement is true.
Generally sure i can see some kids linin up a couple boards to play 40k as well as their allowances might allow
All the while aspiring to play on a standard table
And cursing GW for making them save up for another game board of the proper size.
Sooooo... I would count that as a less than zero in the end.
You want to have a standard 1850pt game on a 44x60inch table then roll onward but especially in this bloated alpha srike dominated edition well... Enjoy. I would count that as a less tjan zero too.
So i will go farther to say that this sort of marketing to try to spin 40k into multiple standalone systems with apparently zero crossover potential and no plans for it (this is my big disappointment with these expansion boxes) will breed confusion and ultimately resentment enough to nullify any novice killteam board usage. Sum thus zero.
Your logic makes zero sense here. How can you personally as a single individual not buying these sets to use in 40k say that equates to LESS than zero sales.
And you're adament that literally zero people will buy these sets for 40k despite the fact that some people have explicitly stated that they will?
Even if the boards aren't ideal, people are buying the sets for 40k terrain. That is more than zero. Some > none.
Stux wrote: Even if the boards aren't ideal, people are buying the sets for 40k terrain. That is more than zero. Some > none.
The terrain is a different question. The "zero sales" statement was about the board and its non-standard size being useless for 40k games.
Ok, understood. I still feel it's an exaggeration and will be more than zero, but admittedly it will be a very small number. It would still be very small if it was an exact number of feet however, as your still need loads of kits to make a full size board.
I think it is rather sad that there is a space wolves expansion... and a pack of sw would be perfect as a kill team (see the Ragnar books)... but none of the SW weapons are available... so why advertise with them?
prometheus78 wrote: I think it is rather sad that there is a space wolves expansion... and a pack of sw would be perfect as a kill team (see the Ragnar books)... but none of the SW weapons are available... so why advertise with them?
I agree it is a weird choice. If you make a Kill Tema that is literally just a Reivers Combat Squad, why make them SWs rather than generic marines?
Hanksingle wrote: Given how slapdash KillTeam feels as a final product, the 'they made a decision to make KT better' defense that keeps showing up, here, feels really weird.
They didn't sculpt any new models, if they play-tested the rules, they certainly didnt spend much time formatting the rule book, the campaign rules are a total after-thought (those injuries...what?), and I think any three of us, in a room, could have knocked out the pages and pages of 'fluff generation' in an afternoon.
Everything about this format is starting to feel like a naked cash grab, to me, I'm inclined to wonder if 2'x3', and the box to hold it, wasn't just too pricey for their desires, so they ended up with some random size that hit their desired margins.
Hi, go into your local game store and put the kill team board down on a card table. Realize that it isn't random, and fits exactly
Davor wrote: I am not saying you are wrong Original Poster since you have your opinion and it doesn't suit you. My question is, what is really the problem?
Are you planning to use the boards for 40K games instead of Kill Teams? Is it just a preference to play on a bigger board? The board while smaller is not that much smaller I believe. Do you really play on the edges all the time that those extra 6" or so make a difference?
Do you have your objectives on the edges to need the extra range? All I see most games of 40K is just like Warmahordes. Rush to the middle to pew pew everyone. I never see the extra space/range being used EXCEPT for turn one. That is it.
So I am trying to understand why it's such a big issue for you. Again, not saying you are wrong, just trying to understand your opinion.
Peregrin made things clear in an earlier post or two, clearer than i could have. Essentially it is this ~ GW might have packagd boards that scale up to standard table sizes with rules supporting the transition. A move i would have endorsed. Instead they built anothr standalone with what appears to be a planned lack of potential integration with existing systems and instead now we hear that this was to fit on Magic tables instead. So i am disappointed and want to invest but ... Gonna skip this one. Lookin at adeptus titanicus instead.
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Davor wrote: I am not saying you are wrong Original Poster since you have your opinion and it doesn't suit you. My question is, what is really the problem?
Are you planning to use the boards for 40K games instead of Kill Teams? Is it just a preference to play on a bigger board? The board while smaller is not that much smaller I believe. Do you really play on the edges all the time that those extra 6" or so make a difference?
Do you have your objectives on the edges to need the extra range? All I see most games of 40K is just like Warmahordes. Rush to the middle to pew pew everyone. I never see the extra space/range being used EXCEPT for turn one. That is it.
So I am trying to understand why it's such a big issue for you. Again, not saying you are wrong, just trying to understand your opinion.
I built an 8x4 back in the day. Wish we had that sort of scale these days. Back then stuff moved slower for the most part. Armies were smaller more infantry. Jump packs mattered. So...yeah table space is important
jeff white wrote: Peregrin made things clear in an earlier post or two, clearer than i could have. Essentially it is this ~ GW might have packagd boards that scale up to standard table sizes with rules supporting the transition. A move i would have endorsed. Instead they built anothr standalone with what appears to be a planned lack of potential integration with existing systems and instead now we hear that this was to fit on Magic tables instead. So i am disappointed and want to invest but ... Gonna skip this one. Lookin at adeptus titanicus instead.
Do what you like, but the cost savings on the terrain in the Kill Zone boxes is more than you might think and would easily make purchasing a realm of battle board doable compared to buying the RoB and all the terrain you would purchase to put on it. Silly that you are stuck on not getting into KT but aren't willing to go the same path many others do, which is skip the RoB all together.
People also don't realize the important of the new board size. If you notice the new size is much easier to fit on a kitchen table and or magic table. GW spicificly designed it to be able to take up a smaller profile in a hobby store to compete with MtG.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not to mention, literally nothing is stopping you from playing on any board size you like. Or playing on a 4x4
One of the biggest complaints you will find about 40k from people who are interested but do not play is that the board is too large.
A 22x30 board is great. It fits on standard card tables, kitchen tables and coffee tables. That is not only ideal but perfect. It means you can actually run tournaments and events of Kill Team with basic card tables, no need for large, custom tables. This opens up many more places to play the game, not least of which are traditional card game stores (who already have the infrastructure). Indeed on a standard 6 foot by 30" table, you could comfortably seat 4 players and have lots of room left over for tokens and cards.
A 24x36 inch board would be a huge hindrance to the potential popularity and success of the game.
Red_Five wrote: One of the biggest complaints you will find about 40k from people who are interested but do not play is that the board is too large.
A 22x30 board is great. It fits on standard card tables, kitchen tables and coffee tables. That is not only ideal but perfect. It means you can actually run tournaments and events of Kill Team with basic card tables, no need for large, custom tables. This opens up many more places to play the game, not least of which are traditional card game stores (who already have the infrastructure). Indeed on a standard 6 foot by 30" table, you could comfortably seat 4 players and have lots of room left over for tokens and cards.
A 24x36 inch board would be a huge hindrance to the potential popularity and success of the game.
This, gws biggest problem marketing wise is that the space vs profit margin sucks ass with wargaming. Look how many people can comfortably play on a 6x4 considering you also need at least a 1' buffer on each side to move so really it's more of a 8x6 space you need in order to play comfortably and even then it's only like 4 people. Now twke that same space and fit it with card tables, how many people can you get to play MtG in that space?
That's what GW chose this size, to increase it's space to profit
Crablezworth wrote: What remains to be seen is if the size of the board is a benefit to the game itself or something that gets in the way.
I won't think it will matter because think of it this way, if you were on a 4x4 of often do you find yourself on the edge? If anything it just forces the game to go quicker and be more killy.
I literally had a conversation with my LGS on release day about the board size making it much easier for them to support the game with game nights and tournaments.
It's the recommended size as far back as I can remember. Though with how cheap and plentiful infantry are in 8th, the board does feel crowded sometimes.
Odrankt wrote: Well, you could buy 6 expansions and make a 3ft8" x 7ft6" (44"x90") board. Could even rip off 1ft6" and have a 3ft8" x 6ft? Plus a gakk ton of GW Terrain at a bargain
Here was my thinking ... I'm lucky to own a 8 ft by 6 ft table in my garage. Until now, I've got by with a super king size bed flat sheet thrown over it, plus terrain. (Got different colours of sheets - reddish for Mars, purple for Tyranid infested planet, grey for city scape).
So I had two options to get something better for that 8'x 6' table:
Option A : Buy 2 x Realm of Battle Sector Imperialis
Pros:
Covers my 8' x 6' table perfectly (96" x 72")
Beautiful looking 3D terrain base
Cons:
Single battlefield (albeit with ability to re-order tiles)
Needs painting before "full effect"
OR
Option B : Purchase 9 Kill Team Tiles - 3 strips of 5.5' x 2.5' (66" x 30" each strip of 3 boards)
Pros:
Covers almost all of my 8' x 6' table
7.5' x 5.5' (90" x 66") - leaves a healthy margin all round for dice, tokens, laser pens etc
Personally, I'm OK with losing the border and gaining the 6" surround on the table
Is ready to go - no need to paint to have a beautiful looking table
I can flip some of the mats to create a mix of Imperaialis, Mechanicus and Munitorum
3 strips of 5.5' x 2.5' (66" x 30" each)
And thus have 2 very different tables (ignoring the re-ordering of tiles within a table)
Cons:
I lose a 6" surround on the table. I'm neutral on this - the space will be a nice border for dead units, dice rolling etc
All these costs are from my usual plastic crack dealer (offering 15 - 20% discount) - all prices are as listed on the Element Games site right now, or what I purchased them at over the last two weekends...
The 2 x Realm of Battle boards would have cost me 340 (170 each) after discount
Here's how I obtained the 9 Kill Team Tiles (3 are still on pre-order, so I've not got them all yet):
2 x Kill Team Base Sets cost me 128 (64 each) after discount
4 x Killzone Sector Mechanicus cost me 160 (40 each) after discount
3 x Killzone Sector Munitorum cost me 120 (40 each) after discount
So 340 pounds to lay out RoB boards on my table at full table utilisation
or 408 pounds to lay out Kill Team Tiles on my table at near full size utilisation, with greater variation in the table top thanks to sector Imperalis, Mechanicus and Munitorum tile options (or indeed, 9 full-on Imperalis)
Except that 408 pounds also gives me the following - essentially all this for 68 pounds difference between RoB and KT boards:
Savings From Kill Team Purchase
2 x Gene Stealer Cult Neophyte boxes (Valued at 42 pounds total after discount)
2 x Skitarii boxes (Valued at 40 pounds total after discount)
I will make use of both of these - my GSC and Adeptus Mechanicus armies have been "built by accident" from 2 boxes of Deathwatch Overkill and 2 boxes of Forgebane. So these are cool pools of extra infantry I will find use for
6 full sets of Munitorum Armoured Containers (Valued at 75 pounds total after discount)
8 frames of Sector Imperialis terrain (ruins, floors, buildings, walls, columns) from the 2 Kill Team Base sets, I think via a lazy look at box contents, 60 pounds of terrain savings (I figure 1 x ruins and 0.5 x Administratum per KT base set)
32 (!!!) frames of Sector Mechanicus scenery, including 4 Alchomite Stack and 4 Ferrotonic Furances and 8 sets of Plasma Conduits - I'm finding this hard to believe, but it looks like that is a whopping 200 quid worth of terrain after discount (25 pounds each for Ferratonic Furnace and Alchomite stack ... times 4 pairs)
3 sets of Galvanic Servhaulers (Valued at 63 pounds total after discount)
Not to mention
2 x copies of Kill Team rulebook for my group (Valued at 40 pounds total after discount)
So for me, I'm getting a 7.5 foot by 5.5 foot gaming table, plus 82 pounds worth of models, plus 398 (!!!) pounds worth of terrain, plus 40 pounds worth of rule book, for a net cost of 68 pounds over 2 Realm of Battle sets.
For me, Kill Team is an absolute bargain for a new WH40K table that is big enough to play a big battle - a nice full-colour hard cardboard battletop plus enough terrain to block LOS on 40K battles. It'll take me forever to assemble all that terrain, but hey, those boxes will make great paper weights until the project is complete (and it would have taken me ages to pain the RoB boards in any case)
And I have enough tokens and rules for two of us to play down on Kill Team between bouts of 40K on the new and improved table.
Better option, buy secret weapon boards, they were 3d have lots of options and come in 1x1 boards WHICH all Lock together so they don't slide around and much eaiser to store.
Backspacehacker wrote: Better option, buy secret weapon boards, they were 3d have lots of options and come in 1x1 boards WHICH all Lock together so they don't slide around and much eaiser to store.
I did consider this a few weeks back. But they have no local presence in Ireland I could find, and shipping from the US (plus taxes) would have doubled the cost.
In the end, I'm very happy with my decision. The boards which have arrived so far look great, and the terrain bonus is fantastic.
Hm....Googling "game expansion" got me this (bolded the important part for emphasis):
An expansion pack, expansion set, supplement, or simply expansion is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game, video game or collectible card game. These add-ons usually add new game areas, weapons, objects, characters and/or an extended storyline to an already released game.
I don't think a bit of cardboard and some terrain is really an expansion since it's part of the initial release and not an expansion to the existing game.
On the Games Workshop Store Page for Killzone: Sector Mechanicus, GW themselves call it an expansion for Kill Team.
"The Sector Mechanicus Killzone Environment is an expansion for Kill Team"
I think it's reasonable to call someting being marketed as an expansion an expansion, and to judge it as an expansion.
Davor wrote: I am not saying you are wrong Original Poster since you have your opinion and it doesn't suit you. My question is, what is really the problem?
Are you planning to use the boards for 40K games instead of Kill Teams? Is it just a preference to play on a bigger board? The board while smaller is not that much smaller I believe. Do you really play on the edges all the time that those extra 6" or so make a difference?
Do you have your objectives on the edges to need the extra range? All I see most games of 40K is just like Warmahordes. Rush to the middle to pew pew everyone. I never see the extra space/range being used EXCEPT for turn one. That is it.
So I am trying to understand why it's such a big issue for you. Again, not saying you are wrong, just trying to understand your opinion.
Peregrin made things clear in an earlier post or two, clearer than i could have. Essentially it is this ~ GW might have packagd boards that scale up to standard table sizes with rules supporting the transition. A move i would have endorsed. Instead they built anothr standalone with what appears to be a planned lack of potential integration with existing systems and instead now we hear that this was to fit on Magic tables instead. So i am disappointed and want to invest but ... Gonna skip this one. Lookin at adeptus titanicus instead.
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Davor wrote: I am not saying you are wrong Original Poster since you have your opinion and it doesn't suit you. My question is, what is really the problem?
Are you planning to use the boards for 40K games instead of Kill Teams? Is it just a preference to play on a bigger board? The board while smaller is not that much smaller I believe. Do you really play on the edges all the time that those extra 6" or so make a difference?
Do you have your objectives on the edges to need the extra range? All I see most games of 40K is just like Warmahordes. Rush to the middle to pew pew everyone. I never see the extra space/range being used EXCEPT for turn one. That is it.
So I am trying to understand why it's such a big issue for you. Again, not saying you are wrong, just trying to understand your opinion.
I built an 8x4 back in the day. Wish we had that sort of scale these days. Back then stuff moved slower for the most part. Armies were smaller more infantry. Jump packs mattered. So...yeah table space is important
Thank you for the reply. I can see where you are coming from. GW can very well scale up the game. I always said the "get into 40K" should be like a Kill Team type game. They can make the scale get bigger and bigger for new people to ease them into regular 40K if they so choose to do so, but at a slower pace that the person would be more comfortable with. We don't know what GW is planning. It can very well not scale or it might, we just don't know. I agree it would be silly if GW didn't do it and capitalize if Kill Zone is doing great and seeing if it brings in new blood. Maybe that is what GW is doing waiting to see how we accept Kill Team and then move from their.
Just curious, I and I could be wrong, but I haven't read anywhere where it's set in stone of table size or map size. Yes of course if you use the supplied maps it's smaller, but who says you have to use them? You can buy the rule book seperately and just use what you want, or get the box set if you want the minis/terrian and just not use the maps. They are not mandatory. Just a good way for us who can't make good looking boards. Since you have a good board you don't need the smaller maps and can play a larger game.
I also thought I have read it said from a few Asian posters they say they don't have large table space and say 40K is too big. So I thought this was a way of acomodating Asian players with a smaller table to play on.
Hm....Googling "game expansion" got me this (bolded the important part for emphasis):
An expansion pack, expansion set, supplement, or simply expansion is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game, video game or collectible card game. These add-ons usually add new game areas, weapons, objects, characters and/or an extended storyline to an already released game.
I don't think a bit of cardboard and some terrain is really an expansion since it's part of the initial release and not an expansion to the existing game.
On the Games Workshop Store Page for Killzone: Sector Mechanicus, GW themselves call it an expansion for Kill Team.
"The Sector Mechanicus Killzone Environment is an expansion for Kill Team"
I think it's reasonable to call someting being marketed as an expansion an expansion, and to judge it as an expansion.
You're getting a rules expansion with terrain to use it on.
Davor wrote: I am not saying you are wrong Original Poster since you have your opinion and it doesn't suit you. My question is, what is really the problem?
Are you planning to use the boards for 40K games instead of Kill Teams? Is it just a preference to play on a bigger board? The board while smaller is not that much smaller I believe. Do you really play on the edges all the time that those extra 6" or so make a difference?
Do you have your objectives on the edges to need the extra range? All I see most games of 40K is just like Warmahordes. Rush to the middle to pew pew everyone. I never see the extra space/range being used EXCEPT for turn one. That is it.
So I am trying to understand why it's such a big issue for you. Again, not saying you are wrong, just trying to understand your opinion.
Peregrin made things clear in an earlier post or two, clearer than i could have. Essentially it is this ~ GW might have packagd boards that scale up to standard table sizes with rules supporting the transition. A move i would have endorsed. Instead they built anothr standalone with what appears to be a planned lack of potential integration with existing systems and instead now we hear that this was to fit on Magic tables instead. So i am disappointed and want to invest but ... Gonna skip this one. Lookin at adeptus titanicus instead.
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Davor wrote: I am not saying you are wrong Original Poster since you have your opinion and it doesn't suit you. My question is, what is really the problem?
Are you planning to use the boards for 40K games instead of Kill Teams? Is it just a preference to play on a bigger board? The board while smaller is not that much smaller I believe. Do you really play on the edges all the time that those extra 6" or so make a difference?
Do you have your objectives on the edges to need the extra range? All I see most games of 40K is just like Warmahordes. Rush to the middle to pew pew everyone. I never see the extra space/range being used EXCEPT for turn one. That is it.
So I am trying to understand why it's such a big issue for you. Again, not saying you are wrong, just trying to understand your opinion.
I built an 8x4 back in the day. Wish we had that sort of scale these days. Back then stuff moved slower for the most part. Armies were smaller more infantry. Jump packs mattered. So...yeah table space is important
Thank you for the reply. I can see where you are coming from. GW can very well scale up the game. I always said the "get into 40K" should be like a Kill Team type game. They can make the scale get bigger and bigger for new people to ease them into regular 40K if they so choose to do so, but at a slower pace that the person would be more comfortable with. We don't know what GW is planning. It can very well not scale or it might, we just don't know. I agree it would be silly if GW didn't do it and capitalize if Kill Zone is doing great and seeing if it brings in new blood. Maybe that is what GW is doing waiting to see how we accept Kill Team and then move from their.
Just curious, I and I could be wrong, but I haven't read anywhere where it's set in stone of table size or map size. Yes of course if you use the supplied maps it's smaller, but who says you have to use them? You can buy the rule book seperately and just use what you want, or get the box set if you want the minis/terrian and just not use the maps. They are not mandatory. Just a good way for us who can't make good looking boards. Since you have a good board you don't need the smaller maps and can play a larger game.
I also thought I have read it said from a few Asian posters they say they don't have large table space and say 40K is too big. So I thought this was a way of acomodating Asian players with a smaller table to play on.
Yeah it is tough makin space in the typical apartment here. Once had a Vietnamese student assistant tell mevthey had no room for the table so no 40k there... So maybe.
But the reason for a standard table is to have a standard with which game dynamics can be tuned. I dont say balanced but more tuned for fun and fairness. Without a standard then the game further devolves into a marshmallow minded time sink. Not what i spent the past 25yrs collecting stuff to recreate.
Moreover a bigger table affords more tactical flexibility. Less likelihood of a big scrum in the middle of the table or a single assassin murderating an entire army backfield in 2 turns...
Then don't get the game boards and play on 24x24 blocks instead. With 6 of those, you can play a full game of 40k, and GW even sells them as 'Realm of Battle' tiles that are fully textured plastic that you can paint and rearrange to your heart's content.
drbored wrote: Then don't get the game boards and play on 24x24 blocks instead. With 6 of those, you can play a full game of 40k, and GW even sells them as 'Realm of Battle' tiles that are fully textured plastic that you can paint and rearrange to your heart's content.
I don't see the problem here.
Yeah. See. 24x24 is smaller. RoB is also boring. Nah...
Frankly i find it hard to believe that Magic tables in comic book whops cant handle a 24x36 inch board but wutevs. GW is into compartmentalizing and maximizing transactions not into providing consistent and integrative hobby suppprt.
They dont wanna throw a bone to 40k collectors then fine. I wont aupport the move. I figure other 40k enthusiasts will also skip this one for similar reasons
drbored wrote: Then don't get the game boards and play on 24x24 blocks instead. With 6 of those, you can play a full game of 40k, and GW even sells them as 'Realm of Battle' tiles that are fully textured plastic that you can paint and rearrange to your heart's content.
I don't see the problem here.
Yeah. See. 24x24 is smaller. RoB is also boring. Nah...
Frankly i find it hard to believe that Magic tables in comic book whops cant handle a 24x36 inch board but wutevs. GW is into compartmentalizing and maximizing transactions not into providing consistent and integrative hobby suppprt.
They dont wanna throw a bone to 40k collectors then fine. I wont aupport the move.
Just to be clear, are you skipping Kill Team entirely or just the expansions? The former doesn't make much sense to me since you can just buy the book and nothing else. The latter is much more understandable.
I figure other 40k enthusiasts will also skip this one for similar reasons[
drbored wrote: Then don't get the game boards and play on 24x24 blocks instead. With 6 of those, you can play a full game of 40k, and GW even sells them as 'Realm of Battle' tiles that are fully textured plastic that you can paint and rearrange to your heart's content.
I don't see the problem here.
Yeah. See. 24x24 is smaller. RoB is also boring. Nah...
Frankly i find it hard to believe that Magic tables in comic book whops cant handle a 24x36 inch board but wutevs. GW is into compartmentalizing and maximizing transactions not into providing consistent and integrative hobby suppprt.
They dont wanna throw a bone to 40k collectors then fine. I wont aupport the move.
Just to be clear, are you skipping Kill Team entirely or just the expansions? The former doesn't make much sense to me since you can just buy the book and nothing else. The latter is much more understandable.
I figure other 40k enthusiasts will also skip this one for similar reasons[
I suspect you may be in the minority.
Happy to be in the minority as most people are not and most people are.... Not something i wanna be.
As for killteam generally as i wrote above i would play given the chance but likely not much especially given wonky initiative mechanics. Also as i wrote above i have my eye on titanicus for a new standalone game..
Might dl the book when scans show up.
But yeah especially i will be skippin these expansions. Was hopin to pick up those for my armies (4 or 5) but nahhh.
So, I did an unboxing of this to see what the value of it is and to see if the board could be used for normal 40k if you had several of those. Hope this video answers some questions and if this video inst allowed here please direct me to where I can upload this video. Cheers
Grab a 6x4 mdf board from DIY store.
Paint it.
Play kill team on as much or as little as you like.
Use the mats/tiles/terrain if you want. Don't use if you don't want.
Done.
I agree it would have been nice if the size was compatible with standard 40k, but this post is a lot of hyperbole. If that is the ONE thing that kept you from the game, you weren't likely very interested anyway.
I'd be willing to bet that the size they went with was based on the size of tables most people have around to make it more accessible. That accessibility will probably net more sales than was lost by people upset at the lack of compatibility.
If you want compatibility, make your own boards 24x36 and dont use a few inches of the perimeter.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Who cares? It's packaged with 22x30, but you can play on a bigger one if you want. Nothing's stopping you. Kill Team is Kill Team, not 40k.
The main priority of the expansions is a cheap(er) collection of terrain and some extra rules - not for a sheet of cardboard.
The point is that the product could have been useful for other games and therefore a more appealing purpose if it was a standard 24x24 size, but instead it's an awkward 22x30 that will see zero use anywhere else and zero additional sales.
Since the terrain is already 40k terrain (sized for 32mm 6x4) the only thing is the board. Can you play kill team on a 3x3ft board? Yes. Can you play it on the provided board? yes. Can you play it one a 6x4' warhammer board? Sure, if you don't mind spend an extra half hour maneuvering into range.
I don't know about your meta, but both my local meta and my hometown's meta is sold out of kill team stuff. Seriously, even the stores that still have the first AOS and Dark Imperium core sets in stock have sold out. If Kill Team is missing sales it's because they aren't producing stock fast enough.
Peregrine wrote: Why are we assuming that the non-standard size makes the game better, instead of being better for GW's production or packaging concerns?
My thoughts exactly, they likely did it because it was the biggest they could fit in the box.
Plenty of room in the box for a 24x36 if they'd wanted to do that.
I believe old school kill team was 4 by 4 and that was with 200 points per side. Playing on a 6 by 4 table were each side has roughly 10 models a side seems like it would take forever to get models close enough to shoot or fight each other. You would also need a city fights worth of terrain.
The board size has been pretty good so far. I've played about 10 games or so now. Like others pointed out the board size was motivated by being able to play on a standard card game sized table. Not only can you fit large events into a basic gaming store setup but even when you aren't doing an event you don't take up the large tables. Lets say you've got 3 6x4 tables at your store it's nice to have the kill team people able to use regular tables to keep the big tables free for full sized wargaming.
Game wise it works well so far. It makes everything more dangerous. First turn charges can be possible, melee is always a threat, and while the -1 for long range hurts it's easier to get within half range. If you set up the right amount of terrain you can get cover but you can also move enough to flank around it if you try.
LOL if a few inches on a throwaway component put you off KT I wonder what you make of how they're selling (or not selling?) Adeptus Titanicus.
It's going to be expensive but the game itself looks really cool, templates... fire arcs... it's like a game for adults
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cmspano wrote: The board size has been pretty good so far. I've played about 10 games or so now. Like others pointed out the board size was motivated by being able to play on a standard card game sized table. Not only can you fit large events into a basic gaming store setup but even when you aren't doing an event you don't take up the large tables. Lets say you've got 3 6x4 tables at your store it's nice to have the kill team people able to use regular tables to keep the big tables free for full sized wargaming.
Game wise it works well so far. It makes everything more dangerous. First turn charges can be possible, melee is always a threat, and while the -1 for long range hurts it's easier to get within half range. If you set up the right amount of terrain you can get cover but you can also move enough to flank around it if you try.
I think it's worth expanding the play area a bit and just add an extra turn before random so like 5 turns instead of 4. The card board looks nice but is really limiting in terms of what kind of terrain and it's overall placement.
Certainly one consideration was finding a play area small enough that between a Killzone and a Kill Team purchase or two, you'd have plenty of terrain density.
Manchu wrote: Certainly one consideration was finding a play area small enough that between a Killzone and a Kill Team purchase or two, you'd have plenty of terrain density.
And dense terrain is what makes killteam so much fun
