Switch Theme:

Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit  [RSS] 

Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 14:32:49


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


https://prodosgames.com/blog/the-new-beginning

Dear Warzone Fans,

We have some great and exciting news and some not so great news.

Let's start with the not so great.

Despite our best efforts, we were unable to reach an accord with Cabinet Entertainment (Warzone Licensor) over the design concepts for our planned Kickstarter for Warzone; therefore, Prodos and Cabinet have decided to part ways amicably. Furthermore, and sadly for our entire team and wargaming as a whole, Prodos Games will no longer be continuing the Warzone Ressurection product line. We are deeply saddened that the game that helped to build the foundations for Prodos Games as a company has been withdrawn.

We feel that we have invested considerable efforts into its resurgence over the last five years and had great plans for the future, some of which I have shared with you over the past few weeks.

Prodos Games will support Warzone Resurrection in a non-profit way, by releasing free to download PDF with new or updated rules or providing prizes for WZR tournaments. However, we will not be able to release any new miniatures or products from the Mutant Chronicles Universe going forward.

You still can purchase Warzone Resurrection models from our online store until the 9th of October with a 30% discount, after which, Warzone products will be no longer available for sale from Prodos Games for both retailers/distributors and end clients on our webshop. In the meantime, we are negotiating with Cabinet Entertainment’s potential buyback of all Warzone Resurrection assets, including digital sculpts and rules to secure the future of the unique wargaming system. While it might be hard to be upbeat about this at this time, every challenge presents a new opportunity; therefore we are going to put our experience and skills learned from this venture to good use.

To avoid similar situations with IP, we are working on a brand new wargame IP developed by our team, which we will be producing with a number of our partners, utilizing a plastic injection process. That's right - plastic! We are determined not to allow another company to be able to withdraw support from, not just us, but also you, the fans, and investors into a wargame system.



By creating our unique IP, we can give direction to the design process and make sure that the system is supported for years to come without any exterior issues. Here are some samples of exciting new hard plastic injection miniatures manufactured by our partners. Prodos Games and its partners are proud to announce the development of STARCIDE!



A fast-paced, action, skirmish wargame in 32mm scale, set in a dystopian science-fantasy universe. Starcide reaches between the realms of sci-fi and fantasy with a dazzling variety of factions to select from including:
Legion of the Black Sun (blood-thirsted vampires and Soul-rending necromancers), Empire of Man (Unified Noble Houses of mankind) , Na'vo (cold-blooded reptiles), Prometheans (a human-like Psionic race), and the Locust (deadly insectoids with biotechnological space travel).

There are many other races we would like to incorporate in Starcide, and we hope you will join us for this experience as we want to include the best of your ideas in this game. Please join our Facebook Starcide Group and become part of this exciting new venture into wargaming. The release date for the game is to be confirmed. Also, for those who prefer e-mails, you can sign up to a mailing list below!









Please join our Facebook Starcide Group and become part of this exciting new venture into wargaming.















and just for emphasis:

You still can purchase Warzone Resurrection models from our online store until the 9th of October with a 30% discount, after which, Warzone products will be no longer available for sale from Prodos Games for both retailers/distributors and end clients on our webshop.


https://shop.prodosgames.com/7-warzone


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 14:41:31


Post by: skarsol


Wonder if they'll ever comment about Space Crusade again or just pretend it never happened and hope it goes away?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 15:15:17


Post by: Red Corsair


Concept art is really nice, I am really digging the prometheans, that is how the engineers should have always looked in the movie that inspired these.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 15:17:42


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Right now I'm debating between 'keep to the paint what you have vow' vs 'last chance to get that SWEET TANK'.

I'm thinking tank will win.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 15:22:13


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


skarsol wrote:
Wonder if they'll ever comment about Space Crusade again or just pretend it never happened and hope it goes away?


What that, that never happened , nobody pre-ordered anything, certainly nothing that wasn't delivered, probably, and if they did they wouldn't want it now anyway...

besides we're too busy finalising AvP pledges to worry about that now


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 15:50:04


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I see this as a good thing. They deserve every bit of flak they get for AvP and such, but going with their own IP means no more licensing fees or issues, to say the least.

Curious what Cabinet wasn't happy about. I thought they've done a decent job of chugging along and churning out new releases.

The new releases seemed to carry the spirit of the game as well, at least in my opinion.

On the other hand I really liked the Empire of Man stuff I got from them in resin. The lure of plastic versions makes it even more tempting.

Plus, y'know, hitech snakemen and armored werewolves. Can't go wrong with goodies like that.

-also, weren't the Prometheans the enemies in Chronicle X? Nice little cross promotion if that's the case.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 16:06:00


Post by: W1ntermute


Och, c'mon. They killed WZ like two years ago. Basically with 2nd edition. When I'm looking at patch 2.3.2 it makes me laugh. And no plan for releases.

WZ wasn't ideal but was fun, and nostalgic for some people. But looking at 2nd edition I can imagine why they lost the license.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 16:06:24


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


Aztec lizardmen, now in Space. Come on...there must be some untapped original ideas out there.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 16:17:46


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Please point me to the plethora of aztec space lizards currently on the market.

Seraphon may be just that in the fluff but most models don't reflect that.

All I can think of are Tim Prow's Eru-Kin models, and that isn't the most prolific of lines as of yet...


Plus these are snakes, not lizards.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 16:24:26


Post by: Monkeysloth


Cue Modiphius announcing Mutant Chronicles Miniatures.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 16:25:56


Post by: AAN


Sad news about Warzone… :(
The new IP looks boring to me, weird war Nazis for the 115th time, another Gear Krieg walker clone and the usual aliens… meh.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 16:40:45


Post by: Theophony


 AAN wrote:
Sad news about Warzone… :(
The new IP looks boring to me, weird war Nazis for the 115th time, another Gear Krieg walker clone and the usual aliens… meh.


But but but look at the name STARCIDE that’s awesome AWESOME I tell you. And not just because it was developed for free by their 8 year old kid either , but because it will draw in people who plat Star Saga and Zombicide because it mushes the names together. IT’S LIKE PEANUT BUTTER AND CHOCOLATE!!! OR CHOCOLATE AND PEANUT BUTTER .


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 16:59:11


Post by: MinscS2


Sad about Warzone, guess my Bauhaus will stay on the shelf for a long time.

Prodos can go to hell however. Worst mini-company I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 17:03:20


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Should have been "Stellarcide".


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 17:36:05


Post by: Monkeysloth


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Should have been "Stellarcide".


And gone with an 80's early 90's vibe. I'd buy it.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 17:48:05


Post by: Chairman Aeon


Will keep my eye on these...


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 17:55:05


Post by: JonWebb


 Monkeysloth wrote:
Cue Modiphius announcing Mutant Chronicles Miniatures.


Waaayy too much going on for that sort of thing.

Also, please don't give the boss ideas!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 22:53:05


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Well the tank won, but that's ALL I'm getting.

https://www.miniaturemarket.com/pic101814.html



It's sad there's so much great stuff out now I only buy it when the game collapses and it's my last chance...



Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/25 23:53:50


Post by: ingtaer


I thought that Prodos had already died and gone, the drawings posted above I already have some of those miniatures from a kickstarter run by Archon. I am confused.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 00:04:28


Post by: AegisGrimm


Regardless of anything else, those power armored vampires look pretty good as concept art.

And the Empire of Man is like they figured "screw you and withdrawing the IP for Warzone, we're keeping Bauhaus."


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 00:26:53


Post by: ingtaer


Aegis, yeah the Eldar are fairly nice models. I have become more confused, so Archon kickstarted most of these mini lines and got them produced in resin at 28mm (pretty much truescale) and now they are going to release them in HIPS at 32mm?

I will snap some pics later for peoples edification.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 00:56:44


Post by: Barzam


Huh. Well, this will be a good excuse to put all of those Empire of Man molds that they produced for the Kickstarter to use. Those were some nice figures and I do kind of wish I'd backed it. At least this means I'll be able to get some more of those Dark Eldar Wraithguards for myself.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 01:06:32


Post by: judgedoug


oh hey a walking German Hanomag and space Prussians, no one has ever done that before


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 01:06:50


Post by: ingtaer


Pics as promised (sorry for the unassembldness) can get pics of the human tanks later if someone request them.


From left to right;
Human officer, cat lady, female storm trooper, random scale marine, male storm trooper, scairp prime and dark eldar lord commander.



Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 01:16:28


Post by: Dark Severance


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
On the other hand I really liked the Empire of Man stuff I got from them in resin. The lure of plastic versions makes it even more tempting.
I wish I got my Empire of Men stuff. :( I'm still waiting for it, unfortunately.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 01:58:11


Post by: warboss


Nice art, mediocre sample models, untrustworthy company. I'll pass.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 02:06:37


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Link to the Archon Kickstarter. I guess they're partnering or something?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/geeksaw/empire-of-men-28mm-sci-fi-miniatures-collection

Seems it still in the middle of fulfilment (originally expected for Feb 2018) and having QC and communication issues.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 02:11:21


Post by: Nostromodamus


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


Seems it still in the middle of fulfilment (originally expected for Feb 2018) and having QC and communication issues.


Oh, what a surprise...


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 02:19:09


Post by: ingtaer


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Link to the Archon Kickstarter. I guess they're partnering or something?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/geeksaw/empire-of-men-28mm-sci-fi-miniatures-collection

Seems it still in the middle of fulfilment (originally expected for Feb 2018) and having QC and communication issues.


Their comms is gak, their QC is only really affecting the tanks which are a little worse than I would expect from FW but their infantry (at least all that I have) is really good quality.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 02:21:33


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


It's about par the course for their campaigns. No better or worse I'd say than most big(ger) companies on KS.

I've backed most if not all of the Archon related campaigns, and I'm not sure if I'm an outlier or anything, but they've delivered and I haven't had too many issues.

Problems I've had though they've rectified when I contacted them (missing cards and resin figure parts).


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 02:44:05


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Up to the beginning of this month Prodos was previewing plastic Brotherhood and Dark Legion for a Kickstarter, now I am the sads

https://www.facebook.com/WarzoneResurrection/



Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 03:54:23


Post by: ced1106


> I thought that Prodos had already died and gone

Hmm. Were they calling themselves Prodos Games before? After AvP, Jared formed Archon and transferred the staff and assets from Prodos to Archon. For all I know, Prodos Games is an entirely different legal entity from either of the two, and he's playing the company shell game for whatever reason. In any case, a leopard doesn't change its spots, even if it's the head of a different company.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 06:06:09


Post by: Fenriswulf


I'd like to grab some of these, but not having a proper scale for some of the walkers and mechs that I can reference makes it kind of hard to judge how useful these might be. Especially the Cybertronic Eradicator, Mishima Meka and the Imperial Hurricane Walker. I have height measurements for the Hurricane and Eradicator, but none for the Meka. The Meka could be useful as alternative Crisis Suits, but I can't properly judge this.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 07:18:53


Post by: smurfORnot


Man, ripping everything from 40k to The Chronicles of Riddick,lol...they are really full of fresh of new ideas. Though probably lookingfor people to use them as proxy IG/Eldar/Dark Eldar


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 07:23:30


Post by: Siygess


Prodos as an entity will still be around, because they - not Archon - have the AvP license and I doubt Fox / Disney will allow them to move the license to Archon.

Warzone's problem was a lack of releases for the last year.. literally nothing new for us to buy, and nothing that was previewed as a 3D print ever went into production. They did manage to make a few unicast event-only models but clearly there just wasn't any money there to produce them in bulk, package them up and ship them out. Thus it was all riding on KS funds to fill in the gaps left by the missing units (e.g. Illian) and maybe create some new models based on rules the team have had waiting in the wings for about a year.

However, Cabinet supposedly gave a green light to the KS then - for reaons I can only speculate on - that green bulb was replaced with a red one and now we are where we are. Money invested in plastic capability won't go to waste, it seems, and that is good for Prodos and their future plans, but it won't help Warzone at all.

We have a window of opportunity of.. unknown length.. to continue to work on the rules and put out some of the profiles we created, but once those models are withdrawn from sale.. damn. Sad times indeed.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 07:49:07


Post by: His Master's Voice


And so the mutilated corpse of Warzone is once again interred in the family crypt, right next to Doom Trooper, Kult and Chronopia.

Maybe in five to ten years from now someone competent will do the IP justice with a proper miniature line and actual support.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 09:03:18


Post by: nagash42


They released everything they could for warzone. The higher ups didn't want to make anymore for it and wanted to focus on new stuff only for AVP.
The guy who posted the pictures of the sculpts was trying to get them to make more Warzone stuff and was going to get a kickstarter started for the Ilian and Brotherhood update and add a new race but then this happened


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 13:55:46


Post by: Sacredroach


I would have loved some of those plastic Templars. As it stands, I just placed the final orders to finish my brotherhood and Mishima forces. I wonder who will be the next custodian of the title…


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 14:17:37


Post by: His Master's Voice


No one, most likely. Who would want to follow up from what Prodos left on the market?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 14:29:27


Post by: Fenriswulf


Miniature Market has just put its remaining stock up for clearance (did it just as I was adding stuff to my cart to compare prices with Prodos' shop), and it's pretty cheap. Get it while they have stuff left!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 16:07:53


Post by: ThaneCawdor


 His Master's Voice wrote:
No one, most likely. Who would want to follow up from what Prodos left on the market?


Its possible Cabinet already had someone knocking on their door for the license leading to the break, its happened before with FFG.

The announcement stated they turned over the STL files so any future licensor can go forward with the same minis, and most factions are lacking a few squads and characters to expand on.
Still the big gaps are the DL (4 out 5 apostles), White Star, and the Dark Eden tribes which leads to my relaunch idea. Feel free to steal this potential licensors, unless I win the powerball and beat you to it...

Launch with a Dark Eden post apocalyptic skirmish progression game similar to Necromunda, maybe 10-20 models a side.
You have Templars, Lutherans, Crescentians, Rasputinites, 5 flavors of DL and maybe White Star out of the box.
For expansions the rest of Dark Eden is still relatively blank, and you can always throw in Corporate advisors or full fledged Corp strike teams.
And after that you can always create rules for a proper reinforced platoon sized WZ game.

Or there is always Chronopia


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 16:32:25


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 Fenriswulf wrote:
Miniature Market has just put its remaining stock up for clearance (did it just as I was adding stuff to my cart to compare prices with Prodos' shop), and it's pretty cheap. Get it while they have stuff left!


I could have saved $5 by waiting a day to buy the Grizzly but was worried I'd lose my chance. Ah well...


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 16:42:32


Post by: Fenriswulf


I was exactly thinking of you when the clearance hit. But yeah, you've got to take the opportunity if you think it isn't going to be around for long. I just managed to fluke it as they had lowered prices across the entire range, so I got all the mechs I wanted and some other Warzone stuff I can use to proxy as other miniatures in 40k. It was cheaper to get it from Miniature Market than Prodos in the end. 15 pounds for shipping is a killer.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 16:46:04


Post by: His Master's Voice


 ThaneCawdor wrote:


Its possible Cabinet already had someone knocking on their door for the license leading to the break, its happened before with FFG.


It's possible, sure. Probable? Who would lay down the cash (except for me, but I don't have a couple hundred grand to burn) to drain the poisoned well that was Prodos' support for the game and then pick up a portfolio of designs that were part good, part bad and wholly inconsistent?

Killing it, letting a few years of dust cover the sharper edged memories and starting over from a clean slate is probably what this is about. Cabinet is cauterizing wounds here.


I mean, I'm all for some millionaire fan of the system to make it their pet project, but I'm also all in on world peace and WFB making a grand comeback...


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 16:50:37


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 His Master's Voice wrote:
 ThaneCawdor wrote:


Its possible Cabinet already had someone knocking on their door for the license leading to the break, its happened before with FFG.


It's possible, sure. Probable? Who would lay down the cash (except for me, but I don't have a couple hundred grand to burn) to drain the poisoned well that was Prodos' support for the game and then pick up a portfolio of designs that were part good, part bad and wholly inconsistent?

Killing it, letting a few years of dust cover the sharper edged memories and starting over from a clean slate is probably what this is about. Cabinet is cauterizing wounds here.


I mean, I'm all for some millionaire fan of the system to make it their pet project, but I'm also all in on world peace and WFB making a grand comeback...


I'll be there for Mutant Chronicles Warzone 5: This Time We Mean It



Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 16:55:39


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 Fenriswulf wrote:
Miniature Market has just put its remaining stock up for clearance (did it just as I was adding stuff to my cart to compare prices with Prodos' shop), and it's pretty cheap. Get it while they have stuff left!


I could have saved $5 by waiting a day to buy the Grizzly but was worried I'd lose my chance. Ah well...


You'd better buy another one to save that $5.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 17:09:21


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

You'd better buy another one to save that $5.


they still have 2! I'll practically be making money!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 17:20:44


Post by: NAVARRO


A shame to see Warzone dropped… seems like one of those IP's full of potential but that never really has a long therm plan.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 17:21:31


Post by: Fenriswulf


This is the perfect line of thought for a miniature buyer.

*looks at pile of unused, un-assembled miniatures from back in time...*

Checks out


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 17:33:19


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Still waiting on that Chronopia revival...


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/26 17:38:48


Post by: Elbows


Oh, a Prodos thread...this'll be fun...(grabs popcorn)


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 01:14:27


Post by: Ronin_eX


Oh, hurray, I get to watch my favourite game property die for the fourth time (though I only barely count that FFG abomination)!

Oh well, I wonder if Modiphius is holding on to the Mutant Chronicles side of things (I kind of hope we get a revised core one of these days since subsequent 2d20 iterations have been vastly improved). Maybe they'll be awesome and pick up the wargame half as well (though with them doing Fallout, I'm kind of doubting it).

At least the short revival gave Modiphius time to print a complete RPG line for Mutant Chronicles (and finally gave us some Dark Eden stuff that wasn't just part of Warzone 1st Edition) even if Prodos barely got their feet wet before they it all up with their nosedive in to AvP and subsequent loss of all good will.

Needless to say, I won't be joining Prodos for this new property. I hopped on board for MC/Warzone and while the initial outing was promising, they showed the same lack of competence that every license holder after Target showed.

Either way, if it ever gets picked up again *cough*alongside Chronopia*cough* I hope that it finally gets a company that isn't looking to treat it like a museum piece, but who also respects where it came from. Modiphius walked this line well, but they didn't have the wargame license and are unlikely to grab it considering all the plates they have spinning. I guess I'll wait and see if this one rises again.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 01:33:38


Post by: AegisGrimm


I would kill for a Chronopia remake. Especially the Epic-scale version that was in the works but never got produced. I used to love the Chronopia sculpting style.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 01:58:24


Post by: Sacredroach


Chronopia: Empire I think it was called. I am still sad that we had Warmaster and not that. I will happily support whomever is next in line for this license.

“The game you almost love to support.”


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 10:33:36


Post by: Johanxp


Cabinet via Twitter just announced game is not dead. They will continue to produce rules and minis working with other companies.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 11:01:00


Post by: dyndraig


 AegisGrimm wrote:
Especially the Epic-scale version that was in the works but never got produced. I used to love the Chronopia sculpting style.


Oh I have never heard of that, too bad it never panned out. From what I could google on it seemed really neat.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 11:01:12


Post by: His Master's Voice


Linky link to the announcement? Can't locate Cabinet's official twitter account.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 11:57:26


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


If they're already in a position to announce this, it sound less like Prodos abandoning Warzone, than Cabinet taking it away from them as soon as the licence expired

either because Prodos was doing well enough with the licence in terms of reputation, sales or both

or because they'd already had somebody else unofficially offer more


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 12:27:50


Post by: Siygess


It will be interesting to see how this pans out. We were given the go-ahead to continue working on the rules, but if Cabinet have someone in mind to take over the whole thing and not just the production of miniatures, I suppose that won't last very long.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 13:41:56


Post by: His Master's Voice


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
If they're already in a position to announce this, it sound less like Prodos abandoning Warzone, than Cabinet taking it away from them as soon as the licence expired

either because Prodos was doing well enough with the licence in terms of reputation, sales or both

or because they'd already had somebody else unofficially offer more


The last Warzone release was, what? 8 months ago? The game certainly felt like it was abandoned.

The one two punch of announcing the death of Warzone AND the birth of another product line feels like it was Prodos dropping the licence in favour of in-house IP.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 15:30:32


Post by: cerealkiller195


shame, I have only ever watched old warzone being played and it seemed complex but fun. I bought ultimate warzone to paw through the rule book back in the day. The story and art style always seemed interesting to me. Even the new stuff I bought some inquistors to play with and the models were very well done and didn't have any mold lines. I may pick some up just to collect and use in other games.

It seems that prodos just can't deal with licenses. I don't want to totally discount that they lost the license especially after things like netrunner being lost by FFG =/


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 17:26:04


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 His Master's Voice wrote:
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
If they're already in a position to announce this, it sound less like Prodos abandoning Warzone, than Cabinet taking it away from them as soon as the licence expired

either because Prodos was doing well enough with the licence in terms of reputation, sales or both

or because they'd already had somebody else unofficially offer more


The last Warzone release was, what? 8 months ago? The game certainly felt like it was abandoned.

The one two punch of announcing the death of Warzone AND the birth of another product line feels like it was Prodos dropping the licence in favour of in-house IP.


Well they did preview plastics this month, so it seems Prodos was putting money into it. But the fact that I had no idea a plastic KS was coming implies they weren't doing a great job getting word out...

But yeah, from Cabinet's side the fact they had 2 competing lines going - Space Crusade and Aliens vs Predator - AND had a sister company working on a 3rd game Starcide/Empire of Man would certainly be a negative.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 18:33:41


Post by: BrookM


Are Space Crusade and AvP even a thing any more these days?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 18:50:03


Post by: skullking


 AegisGrimm wrote:
I would kill for a Chronopia remake. Especially the Epic-scale version that was in the works but never got produced. I used to love the Chronopia sculpting style.


Though I never actually played the game, I always loved the background associated with Chronopia.
The Brutish Dwarfs who worship living animal totems, and live in large 'Ring-Hold' fortresses.
The Mega stuck up elves who at one point had enslaved everyone.
The Noble and regal Orcs & Goblins known as the 'Blackbloods'.
I actually collected all the books, and a bunch of the figures, but never had a desire to actually play it.

Warzone conversely, I thought had some interesting concepts, but didn't really ever capture my attention.

Chronopia should just be added as a new realm in AoS!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 18:59:32


Post by: warboss


 BrookM wrote:
Are Space Crusade and AvP even a thing any more these days?


Probably not but what matters if they were a thing when the decision was likely actually made 6 months to a year ago.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/27 20:40:00


Post by: Mymearan


 BrookM wrote:
Are Space Crusade and AvP even a thing any more these days?


AvP is still getting releases, yep.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/09/28 00:01:05


Post by: Rygnan


 BrookM wrote:
Are Space Crusade and AvP even a thing any more these days?


Prodos basically is AvP the company now. Every month we're seeing some variation on a basic Predator or Xenomorph instead of actually expanding ranges, but it makes them money so it won't change. Even the AvP line is very scarce, missing tons of options listed in their rulebooks for everything but Aliens (who do have every option now and still get new sculpts)


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/04 02:24:14


Post by: Ronin_eX


Johanxp wrote:
Cabinet via Twitter just announced game is not dead. They will continue to produce rules and minis working with other companies.


Huh, well that was both quick and unexpected! Normally when Warzone goes down I expect 5-10 years of intervening downtime! I'm glad Cabinet (still feels weird not to call 'em Paradox, but I can get why they changed names) isn't just sitting on the IP this time around. Can't wait to see who they're working with if for no other reason than I won't have to give Prodos money to support my favourite game line.

Hmm, and if Cabinet are getting on the WZ license this fast after dropping Prodos, that actually gives me hope that they might be shopping around for Chronopia as well.

Either way, nice to see that it is only dying a little bit, instead of its usual fate.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/04 02:53:24


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Proof is in the pudding, even if the transition is smooth the new company has to get the molds/files, organize things, decide when and how to relaunch, get production up, new packaging...

Figure a year even if Prodos ensures a smooth transition and the new licencees are totally on the ball.

Update the title since there's only 2-3 days left when you can actually but these models.

Got my Grizzly, BTW, needs some filing to fit but looks great. It's about 125% the size of a Russ so can serve as a king Russ in my IG army (If I ever play again).


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/04 10:19:15


Post by: Grot 6


This company is a money grubbing cash grab. Don't buy anything from them.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/04 15:17:11


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Which companies aren't money grubbing cash grabs though? They certainly aren't in this line of business for my own health and welfare.



Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/04 15:20:22


Post by: Elbows


They're also thieves...so there's that.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/04 15:43:47


Post by: His Master's Voice


 Ronin_eX wrote:
Huh, well that was both quick and unexpected! Normally when Warzone goes down I expect 5-10 years of intervening downtime!


Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me four times...

I'm not giving in to hope. Not again.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/04 15:51:25


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 Grot 6 wrote:
This company is a money grubbing cash grab. Don't buy anything from them.


money grubbing company? On a GW fan page?!?

Well I never!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/04 17:17:23


Post by: warboss


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Which companies aren't money grubbing cash grabs though? They certainly aren't in this line of business for my own health and welfare.



There is a wide difference between a typical for profit company and the money grubbing cash grabbers and you know it. No one is suggesting that they make miniatures for the community as a charity either because that would be just as ridiculous.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/04 17:45:58


Post by: DarkTraveler777


 warboss wrote:
 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Which companies aren't money grubbing cash grabs though? They certainly aren't in this line of business for my own health and welfare.



There is a wide difference between a typical for profit company and the money grubbing cash grabbers and you know it. No one is suggesting that they make miniatures for the community as a charity either because that would be just as ridiculous.


Exactly. And as Elbows pointed out, the added dollop of thievery paints a very different picture than a typical for-profit company.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/05 18:48:20


Post by: ph34r


Thanks Kyoto-Sensei. I picked up 4 Grizzlies myself.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/05 23:29:41


Post by: MangoMadness


 skullking wrote:

Though I never actually played the game, I always loved the background associated with Chronopia.


Chronopia was awesome! The background of racial hatred due to enslavement was very different than the normal good races v evil races in most games. Regimented and militaristic orcs and goblins were also a great take on the typical 'unhinged greenskins' especially the goblin swordmasters

I played dwarves, slow but very cool with totems and heavy armour.

I have actually used the chronopia world as a D&D world and it was good fun.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/06 09:35:16


Post by: Rygnan


Bit of a weird question, but what is actually packed into the Icarus Jetfighter kit? Looking at the box art it has one design I really want for DCU terrain, but all the actual models I can see are completely different in design. Can anyone help me out?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/06 12:51:53


Post by: Fenriswulf


The box art isn't correct. What you get is actually the 3d model you can see. It's a shame as the box art is great, but the model itself is pretty lackluster.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/06 13:41:18


Post by: His Master's Voice


Same thing applies to the Eradicator Deathdroid.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/06 13:55:45


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Last day!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/07 02:51:40


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Oct 6, I guess that's a wrap


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/07 07:32:59


Post by: firmlog


it says the 9th on the prodos main page.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/07 08:05:05


Post by: Grot 6


DON'T buy from this company.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/08 14:24:09


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


You're right it's the 9th


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/08 17:15:36


Post by: ValentineGames


Very good to hear them struggling with Warzone.
They actively and knowingly screwed over allot of people when it came out and never once apologised and instead blamed everyone else.
Then they release a gakky AvP excuse for a game and to further insult everyone openly rip off 40k and GW with a terrible space crusade farce.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/08 23:12:05


Post by: inqscott


They will ruin the empire of men line at the moment they fit well into 40k but once Prodos get them the will enlarge to models and make them unusable


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/09 04:57:14


Post by: Barzam


 inqscott wrote:
They will ruin the empire of men line at the moment they fit well into 40k but once Prodos get them the will enlarge to models and make them unusable


Dude, what are you talking about? Empire of Man was already owned by Prodos to begin with. Archon is a subsidiary of Prodos.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/09 05:53:08


Post by: streetsamurai


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Up to the beginning of this month Prodos was previewing plastic Brotherhood and Dark Legion for a Kickstarter, now I am the sads

https://www.facebook.com/WarzoneResurrection/


these models are insanely cool. Shame that they'll never see the light of day


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/09 06:09:05


Post by: Grot 6


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 Grot 6 wrote:
This company is a money grubbing cash grab. Don't buy anything from them.


money grubbing company? On a GW fan page?!?

Well I never!


Yeah, because EVERY company runs a shoddy Kickstarter, grabs the funding then pulls the project and disappears. Stops talking to fans, takes more then a few years to complete it, all the while making excuses and shoddy communication. Eventually brings out a product that is subpar- to only a month to six later initiate a second edition, before the project is even done... That's standard practice for a company, though... isn't it.

BUT- you got your grizzlies.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/09 07:18:41


Post by: ValentineGames


Grizzlies...in 1/72nd scale...


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/09 12:00:41


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


via email

Massive clearance sale extended

Due to enourmous demand from our fans, we are expanding our sale for 7 days more!



All items are 30% off


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/10 09:29:43


Post by: firmlog


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
via email

Massive clearance sale extended

Due to enourmous demand from our fans, we are expanding our sale for 7 days more!



All items are 30% off


Where is this from, I haven't been able to find it.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2018/10/10 11:36:31


Post by: Siygess


 firmlog wrote:
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
via email

Massive clearance sale extended

Due to enourmous demand from our fans, we are expanding our sale for 7 days more!



All items are 30% off


Where is this from, I haven't been able to find it.


It was sent via the Prodos Games Newsletter, which is only of use if you were subscribed to it. There was also the following post from J on the Warzone - Mutant Chronicles FB group:

Hi Warzoners, due to several request, Cabinet agreed to extend the sell of Warzone for another week or so, more details tomorrow. Also we agreed internally to release new rules for you ,in raw format (docs file) and once we have your feedback the team will make a proper pdf. Thanks.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 19:54:15


Post by: JohnHwangDD


Hm. I wonder of those clearances were due to Ninja DIvision / Soda Pop Miniature stiffing Prodos for payment.



Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 21:33:08


Post by: skarsol


Well that's certainly unfortunate. Crappy situation for Archon to be in.

What really sucks is I waited till the end of the pledge manager to put in money and they used the minis Archon produced to make it seem like things would actually get delivered.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 21:47:11


Post by: warboss


Thanks for the update, John. I'll try and pass that on in the Starfinder community.

edit: I tried posting it over in the official forums for the game but Paizo has apparently preemptively locked down the official thread discussing the debacle. Posting the screen shot on the Starfinder facebook group got the image link and post deleted twice. Wow.. they're in full damage control/denial mode at Paizo and friends.



Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 22:11:55


Post by: youwashock


Sayonara, Relic Knights. So much for hoping that game would make a comeback.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 22:17:02


Post by: Monkeysloth


According to Prodos it's just sitting in their warehouse. Same with Starfinder.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 22:24:26


Post by: BigDaddio


Wait a minute...Prodos is complaining about not getting something they are owed?

Oh, the irony....


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 22:28:21


Post by: JohnHwangDD


 warboss wrote:
Thanks for the update, John. I'll try and pass that on in the Starfinder community.


You can tweet it at Paizo, hit them on Reddit. Call them out for locking the discussion.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 22:30:57


Post by: warboss


 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 warboss wrote:
Thanks for the update, John. I'll try and pass that on in the Starfinder community.


You can tweet it at Paizo, hit them on Reddit. Call them out for locking the discussion.


I appreciate that but I just joined facebook under an alias about two years ago. I'm just not a fan of social media and, more importantly, I'm not actually a backer (thank god!) of the project. I got into the game (and since out) after the KS funding closed. I was waiting for it to hit retail but that'll happen now shortly after wave 2 of Robotech Tactics does apparently.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BigDaddio wrote:
Wait a minute...Prodos is complaining about not getting something they are owed?

Oh, the irony....


Maybe they could offer for free the minis they made that are just sitting there unpaid for to the roughly 50%+ of AVP backers who still don't have their pledges (at their last public count) 5+ years after the products hit the store shelves... Just a thought.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 22:35:45


Post by: Voss


 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 warboss wrote:
Thanks for the update, John. I'll try and pass that on in the Starfinder community.


You can tweet it at Paizo, hit them on Reddit. Call them out for locking the discussion.


Not worth it. Paizo forum staff can get very stubborn on topic locks, and the worst of the forum fanatics tend to dog pile anyone who violates the decrees from above.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 23:28:36


Post by: JohnHwangDD


Voss wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 warboss wrote:
Thanks for the update, John. I'll try and pass that on in the Starfinder community.


You can tweet it at Paizo, hit them on Reddit. Call them out for locking the discussion.


Not worth it. Paizo forum staff can get very stubborn on topic locks, and the worst of the forum fanatics tend to dog pile anyone who violates the decrees from above.


No, you conduct ALL of the discussion on Twitter and Reddit, where Paizo is just another user without the ability to lock or delete anything, for example:

"@Paizo - how come you're afraid to discuss what's happening to Starfinder?" with the picture attached

By calling them out on a public platform like Twitter or Reddit, you make it globally visible, but take it out of their control.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 23:36:25


Post by: Monkeysloth


There's already a few reddit threads on this just from today. Not on Twitter so don't know about there.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 23:37:28


Post by: JohnHwangDD


Fair enough, then!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/11 23:58:33


Post by: warboss


Fwiw, John Cadice has responded several times in this thread. Of course no concrete into was given as he obliquely referred to some sort of investment that fell through late last year.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2303868816310639&id=100000626295430&set=gm.1067926943391963&source=57&refid=18&__tn__=EH-R


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/12 00:00:20


Post by: Nostromodamus


BigDaddio wrote:
Wait a minute...Prodos is complaining about not getting something they are owed?

Oh, the irony....


Indeed, but I’m sure the irony will be lost on them, they aren’t the brightest people out there. Hopefully this heralds the demise of their business. The gaming community is better off with less lying scumlord companies like them.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/12 01:05:34


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I'd like to see Archon somehow manage to turn this into a positive for everyone.

I've enjoyed their board games and am anxious to see how their new plastic sprue stuff turns out.

If they can manage to somehow salvage Super Dungeon and Relic Knights (and possibly throw some olive branches to the still angry AVP backers while they're at it) it would probably net them a lot of goodwill.

Having a lot of positive buzz and backer goodwill right before launching a big campaign for an all plastic SF tabletop game (which I'm sure won't be cheap) seems like a smart business move.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/12 03:15:51


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Hrm, I was going to lock this and start a thread but there's a lot of discussion already.

Changing the post topic and we'll go from here.

Sigh. I remember when Ninja Division were the good guys from the Robotech disaster.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/12 03:35:11


Post by: warboss


I don't think they were ever the good guys. They had already screwed up the first Relic Knights with a long delay and were seemingly just the lesser of two evils in that case. They've since proven that they can utterly fail all on their own without Palladium's guidance IMO. YMMV.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/12 03:49:07


Post by: Monkeysloth


Also a big part of robotech's financial problems was Ninja Division's insistance on multipart hips kits. That cost more then planned and forced palladium to pay to resculpt everything for wave two. Still plenty of blame to go around between both companies.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/12 03:57:03


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


If it's not been posted, a link to the article.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/business/article225610455.html



Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/12 15:46:00


Post by: LunarSol


 youwashock wrote:
Sayonara, Relic Knights. So much for hoping that game would make a comeback.


It's a shame. I didn't back 2.0, but a friend who did convinced me to finally build my 1.0 set and play and its a fun little system.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/12 23:38:26


Post by: youwashock


Funny. I, too, dodged the 2.0 bullet, but just last night went through stuff left over from KS1 to plan some painting. Some cool models, and a neat setting and game system. This is a drag. It seems they never really pulled it together and it has all caught up to them. Best of luck to the backers on these projects.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/13 05:13:53


Post by: angel of death 007


I went in heavy on Relic knights and got burned to the tune of around $400. I will say since that I have given up on kickstarters. The first time I got screwed was by Angry Mojo Games but that was less then 100. The only companies I might still back would be Monoliath, CMON, and Manic. Possibly Raging Heroes though I will say in their Kickstarters the extreme long wait had me worried several times and the 3 years behind sucked but atleast they followed thru.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/13 14:54:56


Post by: overtyrant


Wait what?? I was wondering why my RK was taking so darn long to get delivered!! I've not read the last number of KS updates. I best go find them and have a read.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/13 15:26:12


Post by: DaveC


overtyrant wrote:
Wait what?? I was wondering why my RK was taking so darn long to get delivered!! I've not read the last number of KS updates. I best go find them and have a read.


Good luck finding them ND/SPM are refusing the to engage with backers on KS as they have no control over the comments preferring instead to use places like Facebook where they can control things and remove dissenting opinions. Last RK update was August 2018.

Apparently Cadice has been saying on Facebook that there will be an update “soon” but has only really resurfaced to somewhat react to Jareks comments. The rep they had dealing with KS comments got laid off.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/13 15:35:08


Post by: lord_blackfang


What's funny is that Ninja Division and Archon both changed their names to disassociate themselves from their past fiascos, and then they both chose to partner up. You'd think they'd both know better than to do business with a company that's blatantly as shady as themselves.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/13 17:29:57


Post by: JohnHwangDD


overtyrant wrote:
Wait what?? I was wondering why my RK was taking so darn long to get delivered!! I've not read the last number of KS updates. I best go find them and have a read.


SPM/ND stopped doing KS Updates, because they have zero progress to share.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/13 17:54:26


Post by: overtyrant


Thanks for the update peeps, hopefully we will hear something but from what I've been reading on here and the other threads here I'm not hopefull!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/18 20:22:29


Post by: JohnHwangDD


We have an Update!

Selected highlights:
"Soda Pop Miniatures" wrote: Breaking Radio Silence

February 18, 2019

Boise, ID.
Ninja Division Company Update

It broke our hearts to let the majority of our incredible staff go at the end of 2018. Ninja Division is currently staffed by its three owners (who are off salary) and a sales manager who continue to work towards the successful reorganization of Ninja Division and pursue Kickstarter fulfillment options.

With staff layoffs, we are unable to individually respond to all email and social media posts we receive, and our time is best spent pursuing all available options for the continuance of the brands we all love.

Ninja Division would like to request that backers from all of our outstanding projects direct your questions and inquiries to us. Our outside partners are not able to service refunds, returns, or ship your product.

Super Dungeon

the Super Dungeon Kickstarter project was restructured
This restructuring of the project increased development time, development costs, manufacturing costs, and future shipping costs.

Super Dungeon then suffered an additional delay in March 2017 when the lead designer for Super Dungeon developed health problems which cut work availability for over six months.

As of now, Super Dungeon is 95% complete and production ready, requiring only finalization and layout of the Legends core game.

Relic Knights

All sculpts, including non-Kickstarter Void Break units, are sculpted and ready for production with the exception of Relic Knight Zineda.

Starfinder Masterclass

To date, Ninja Division has manufactured and delivered over 28,000 miniatures to backers but has a great many more to complete. All sculpts are fully re-engineered and ready for production.

Way of the Fighter

Only models, which are not required for gameplay, are outstanding. Production of all non-Super Dungeon crossover miniatures is 50% complete. All remaining sculpts are complete and ready for production.

Financial Disclosure

The Cost Overrun chart below illustrates the revenue collected by Ninja Division through crowdsourced funding, the costs Ninja Division has spent to date, and the total costs required for completion of the entire project through to delivery.


Questions and Answers

Over the past months, we have received many questions and want to provide answers to the most common ones we hear that were not addressed above.

Q: Is Ninja Division bankrupt/out of business?

No. Ninja Division continues to operate and pursue all available avenues to continue all our brands and provide backers with their rewards.

Q: Will I receive my rewards?

We have not given up. Every day we work towards the goal of delivering backers rewards and the revitalization of the brands and products we have spent a decade creating.

Looking Ahead

Despite our current difficulties, Ninja Division continues to doggedly pursue any and all avenues we can to get products to backers and bring new products to market featuring the brands our customers love. To that end, we are currently working under consultation to reorganize Ninja Division in order to better position it for success and secure investment.

As we proceed with our reorganization we have had partners and fans with operational, business, and financial acumen help us tremendously. If you have a professional skill set and passion in those areas, we would encourage you to reach out as we are working across various stages of consultation to repair components of our operation. As a bicameral entity, our business has sometimes been separated from our creative skill sets, and this realization makes us not too proud to seek professional assistance to ensure a stable and positive growth into the future.

Once we have concrete information regarding the company, new production, and fulfillment we will post another update. We thank you for taking the time to read through this lengthy announcement, as well as your continued patience.

Go Ninja Go!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/super-dungeon-explore-legends/posts/2420163

If you cut through it:
* SPM can't afford any staff; OTOH, they have no product to sell, so that doesn't matter.
* SPM decided to rework the SDE:L project with no concept of delivery or cost, just burning cash on hand
* ALL 4 KS projects are ready to produce, if they just had the ~$1.2M required to press the buttons, but...
* SPM doesn't even have the ~$50k required to complete WotF (minis production & delivery)!
* SPM/ND hasn't yet filed for bankruptcy, pretending a miracle will occur

If you just want the three key points:
* SPM is a "zombie" company
* SPM has ~$2.5M in liabilities
* SPM has <$50k cash on hand
They are functionally bankrupt because they cannot pay the bills that are due, and nobody is coming out to save them.

But don't worry, SPM is still working on getting you your rewards! Honest!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/18 20:39:30


Post by: Col Hammer


Go Ninja Go!

No, wait, why am I laughing?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/18 20:50:41


Post by: TheSecretSquig


Added to the above:
* None of the Charts included the cash they took from the Pledge Managers. Only shows the KS collected funds, so where did all the additional funds go?
* SPM took the "Shipping" cost from backers because the Product was ready to ship. This update confirms nothing was ready to ship. Where did all the shipping funds go because they had nothing to ship?
* Royalty Fee's which ND/SPM pay to themselves (they are the same Company).
* This update is a cut down version from what they have sent to their creditors. Again, lack of transparency with their backers.

Archon Studios who produce all of SPM's resins have already stated that Relic Knights 2 will not be delivered. It's 100% complete and sitting in their warehouse in Poland. Unfortunately, they've not been paid for it. Tax and VAT work differently in Poland, it's due in the next Tax period after issue of an invoice, not when they recieve the ££££. So invoice had been issued, Archon owe the Tax bill. The only way around this is to issue a 'Bad Invoice', but they can only do that if the owing company, SPM, declares themselves Bankrupt. Highly likey this will all be destroyed. They are also owed for the Starfinder Production.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/18 22:27:02


Post by: Monkeysloth


They're just trying to find a buyer for their IPs then run. If they declare bankruptcy they can't get the payout from selling said IP as that money will go to creditors. But there's no way anyone will buy the IPs with this much baggage (even though a buyer could buy an IP and not have to follow through on the KSer or be held responsbile for it's delivery) as the backlash would destroy any value.

SPM/ND really are run by idiots.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/18 23:12:26


Post by: JohnHwangDD


 Col Hammer wrote:
Go Ninja Go!

No, wait, why am I laughing?


Better than "SPARKLEBURST!!!"


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 00:14:35


Post by: Gallahad


"We are seriously crossing our fingers so hard that it will start raining money so we can send you guys your products!"-Ninja Division


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 00:23:32


Post by: Monkeysloth


Well at least they haven't gone the "by non-controlling stock in our company" that another boardgame KSer did last year to get the funds to finish.

So I guess we have more entertainment to look forwards too with they do that or a pateron. $500/mo to get a 10% discount on our webstore.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 02:39:43


Post by: angel of death 007


It's easy for them to look back at their failures and know why they failed. They list no path in which to correctly go forward. I would say it would be time for a hail mary but they can't even afford to field the team let alone the quarterback to throw it.

I look for them to pull the plug, they painted themselves into a corner with no possible way out.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 05:51:46


Post by: jake


At this point I think their plan is to stall until everyone just forgets (which won't happen) or hope that someone buys their IP and they can slip away into the night (which seems unlikely). I don't expect they'll ever admit that the project is failed and won't be delivered.

As a side note, as a game designer I'd love to be on their development team. $500,000 to develop Relic Knights post Kickstarter (after claiming during the Kickstarter that the game was nearly finished with development)? Either their developers are by far the best paid in the industry or they're lying about development costs.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 07:14:48


Post by: lord_blackfang


Lots of pretty language but nothing about how they intend to salvage things.

Best option for backers would be to sink this gakshow ASAP so Prodos can maybe get the IP as part of their payout.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 10:53:22


Post by: jake


Someone on another thread asked why people had funded Relic Knights after the first Kickstarter was a disaster, and with SDE still undelivered at the time. Looking back, its interesting to see what a good job ND did of glossing over fears and convincing everyone that this time would be different. Including me. I had been an early player of SDE, pre-rodering the original game. I also had some of the old resin Relic Knights models. I had gone in on the Forgotten King Kickstarter, and even though it was late I was pretty satisfied with the whole thing. So when the first Relic Knights kickstarter came around I convinced several of my friends to go in on it, and between the 4 of us we spent about $1300. It was so disappointing to get out stuff (very late) and to find that it was super low quality, with most of the models being so poorly cast that they didn't even have faces. After that we all decided not to support ND anymore. But...

When Relic Knights 2 came around I foolishly decided to give it a look. I liked the designs, I liked the rules and it seemed like, maybe ND had learned from their mistakes. In fact, they said so, and talked about how development was nearly done and many of the models were ready to go. It was easy to forget the previous Kickstarter and instead remember how much fun I had with SDE. It was easy to think that ND had learned their lesson, and perhaps the previous problems had really been the fault of CMON and other partners.

I should have known better. We all should have. And its not as if there weren't people warning us. But one of the things ND does well is convincing people that they're doing the best they can, and that they just need another chance. Thats even the message in this latest update. "We're doing the best we can, now be quiet and just wait."

I'm a big believer in Kickstarter, and I use it to produce my own games and comics, but no one has abused Kickstarter more than ND has, and its really disappointing that they've soured so many people on the idea of crowd funding.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 11:37:01


Post by: Agamemnon2


 jake wrote:
As a side note, as a game designer I'd love to be on their development team. $500,000 to develop Relic Knights post Kickstarter (after claiming during the Kickstarter that the game was nearly finished with development)? Either their developers are by far the best paid in the industry or they're lying about development costs.

I think at this point, it's a given they're lying, and have been lying, about everything. They are thieves and liars.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 11:48:01


Post by: lord_blackfang


Hm. I'm actually happy with the first RK kickstarter. Sure, at the time it was annoying that it was a year late and some minis were poor, but it was the first generation of tabletop kickstarters and it later turned out this was the norm for all KS projects. The game itself was good and innovative and everything promised was actually delivered. Soda Pop even replaced one of the exclusive Penny Arcade promos for me that was missing an arm eventhough I complained more than a year after delivery.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 11:51:28


Post by: Skinnereal


I have nothing in this, having backed any of it. But, I have been following from afar...

Can they not cut back to the bare-bones of each product, ship the most basic packs out, and top up with add-ons and stretch goals later?
Sure, it would make shipping more expensive, but at least people would have something.

Or, are they too-far-gone even to manage that?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 12:03:57


Post by: parakuribo


So in other words, no one will see ANY Relic Knight figures while the only way to play SDE is now Arcadia Quest, huh?



Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 14:13:18


Post by: Krinsath


 Skinnereal wrote:
I have nothing in this, having backed any of it. But, I have been following from afar...

Can they not cut back to the bare-bones of each product, ship the most basic packs out, and top up with add-ons and stretch goals later?
Sure, it would make shipping more expensive, but at least people would have something.

Or, are they too-far-gone even to manage that?


It would appear they don't have 50k on hand to finish the least of the projects, and that would likely be an amount of similar scope to the shipping costs for some of the others.

Also they don't actually have much in-hand to ship. From my reading Prodos has manufactured everything they were supposed to and it's sitting in Poland but I doubt Prodos would be amenable to dribs and drabs of product being paid for; they likely want the job lot gone. So as I believe JohnHDD summarized, they have no money with which to get their product, thus they have no product to sell with which to generate money, which they would need to acquire the product in the first place. They're basically waiting for someone to donate sufficient money as an "investment" it seems, which seems more than slightly unlikely unless they're friends with a billionaire looking for a losing business venture to get a tax write-off from.

Further, the claim that they spent more than $596K on SDE's development seems a bit farcical since based on their explanation, that does not include tooling and production of the miniatures. As was opined, that would be some impressively paid developers. Similarly they claim in excess of $278K spent on Relic Knight's artists and developers, with not a dime spent on production. This is based on the amounts raised by each KS, multiplied by the given percentage and based on the premise that the "Costs to date" column exceeds the funds collected column. To say that they spent in excess of three-quarters of a million dollars without getting a single mold or figure made is either untrue or a sign of serious incompetence in either planning or recording costs. Could be a combination, but those numbers just do not sit right with me.

Are there those with experience in the development process who can comment if those numbers are anything close to reasonable or just a way to hide gross mismanagement of finances?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 14:21:45


Post by: DaveC


One of the sculptors posted in the comments that they were paid $350-$450 per chibi mini and $650-$800 per boss depending on complexity. Even when you add in concept art, final art, design and layout etc. I can’t see how they’ve spent close to $600k without having produced any physical product yet.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 15:18:16


Post by: LunarSol


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hm. I'm actually happy with the first RK kickstarter. Sure, at the time it was annoying that it was a year late and some minis were poor, but it was the first generation of tabletop kickstarters and it later turned out this was the norm for all KS projects. The game itself was good and innovative and everything promised was actually delivered. Soda Pop even replaced one of the exclusive Penny Arcade promos for me that was missing an arm eventhough I complained more than a year after delivery.


I was disappointed with RK1.0, no doubt. In part though, it just came out when Warmachine was at its peak, so getting people to play wasn't really on my radar anyway and the rules didn't wow me so... meh. Disappointed, but I wasn't surprised given prior experience with SDE's "great in theory not quite in practice" gameplay. I skipped SPM for a while, including Forgotten King, which.... ended up being pretty successful and reinvigorated my interest in SDE. It wasn't perfect, but as a co-op it was super fixable and really fun to run with the family. I ended up picking up a lot of it at retail and really wished I'd been in on the KS, so when the Legends KS came around...


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 15:30:47


Post by: ced1106


How much is Prodos owed? If Prodos was counting on the ND money to help fund *its* projects... house of cards, anyone??


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 15:37:39


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


they've not said, but they've claimed that it won't effect them except for slowing down some of their internal development in the last round of statements and counterstatements several months back

(but that was before this tax bill situation so what happens if they end up having to pay it, and how much it is who knows)


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 15:42:44


Post by: jake


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hm. I'm actually happy with the first RK kickstarter. Sure, at the time it was annoying that it was a year late and some minis were poor, but it was the first generation of tabletop kickstarters and it later turned out this was the norm for all KS projects. The game itself was good and innovative and everything promised was actually delivered. Soda Pop even replaced one of the exclusive Penny Arcade promos for me that was missing an arm eventhough I complained more than a year after delivery.


You may have been lucky. A lot of backers go really poor quality miniatures. we were stuck with over $1000 worth of stuff that looked like it had been melted with a hair dryer.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 15:46:18


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


ced1106 wrote:
How much is Prodos owed? If Prodos was counting on the ND money to help fund *its* projects... house of cards, anyone??


You mean we might not get Space Crusaders?!?!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 15:56:11


Post by: TheAuldGrump


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
ced1106 wrote:
How much is Prodos owed? If Prodos was counting on the ND money to help fund *its* projects... house of cards, anyone??


You mean we might not get Space Crusaders?!?!
Oh, lordy! I keep trying to blot those models from my memory! Female space marines with terminator style legs and arms, but nekkid bewbs....

The Auld Grump


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 16:01:37


Post by: Nostromodamus


But remember they have energy shields that protect the bewbs so they can Rusade around without fear of jubbly-related injuries.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 17:17:54


Post by: LunarSol


 jake wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hm. I'm actually happy with the first RK kickstarter. Sure, at the time it was annoying that it was a year late and some minis were poor, but it was the first generation of tabletop kickstarters and it later turned out this was the norm for all KS projects. The game itself was good and innovative and everything promised was actually delivered. Soda Pop even replaced one of the exclusive Penny Arcade promos for me that was missing an arm eventhough I complained more than a year after delivery.


You may have been lucky. A lot of backers go really poor quality miniatures. we were stuck with over $1000 worth of stuff that looked like it had been melted with a hair dryer.
It REALLY varied depending on the faction. Early, soft, PVC, so a lot of mold shrinkage meant that bigger models held up better than the smaller ones and some of their scaling was iffy. I got the pirates, knights, and some of the student stuff. The students were generally small and lacked detail, particularly on the faces. Some were hilariously tiny but SPM fixed that. The base knight unit was a mess of tons of tiny parts and were why I gave up on assembly rather quickly. The pirates were overall pretty good though, with really only Squall being a notably poor figure. A few suffer from being obviously beginner sculpts (never daring to cross into the 3rd dimension) but even the small based stuff was pretty good. I focused on these guys when we recently started playing and.... not too bad really. The spec ops and Noh were also fine from what I played against. Haven't seen much of the racers in person.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 18:00:15


Post by: Monkeysloth


 LunarSol wrote:
 jake wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hm. I'm actually happy with the first RK kickstarter. Sure, at the time it was annoying that it was a year late and some minis were poor, but it was the first generation of tabletop kickstarters and it later turned out this was the norm for all KS projects. The game itself was good and innovative and everything promised was actually delivered. Soda Pop even replaced one of the exclusive Penny Arcade promos for me that was missing an arm eventhough I complained more than a year after delivery.


You may have been lucky. A lot of backers go really poor quality miniatures. we were stuck with over $1000 worth of stuff that looked like it had been melted with a hair dryer.
It REALLY varied depending on the faction. Early, soft, PVC, so a lot of mold shrinkage meant that bigger models held up better than the smaller ones and some of their scaling was iffy. I got the pirates, knights, and some of the student stuff. The students were generally small and lacked detail, particularly on the faces. Some were hilariously tiny but SPM fixed that. The base knight unit was a mess of tons of tiny parts and were why I gave up on assembly rather quickly. The pirates were overall pretty good though, with really only Squall being a notably poor figure. A few suffer from being obviously beginner sculpts (never daring to cross into the 3rd dimension) but even the small based stuff was pretty good. I focused on these guys when we recently started playing and.... not too bad really. The spec ops and Noh were also fine from what I played against. Haven't seen much of the racers in person.


I bought a bunch from MM last black Friday and I can agree. Outside of one of the hardcases (bomb people) in the pirate faction everything was pretty decent quality considering they weren't sculpted for PVC. I'm sure there are plenty of bad ones out there as the female from that pirate set had no face across 3 models but the ones I got would have been pretty good back when the first Relic Knights came out.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 18:48:20


Post by: lord_blackfang


I went all in on everything but the Noh (ogre guys) and by far the most jarring fault was that even within a faction, some figures had Infinity like slender proportions and others were as chunky as 90s GW plastics. Softness of facial detail I put down to anime faces being flat as a matter of course. I put everything together and some of the big Knights are still some of my favorite minis.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 21:02:34


Post by: Grot 6


Am I to understand it that there is still more from the KS to be released from Super Dungeon Explore?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 21:35:48


Post by: JohnHwangDD


 Grot 6 wrote:
Am I to understand it that there is still more from the KS to be released from Super Dungeon Explore?


Nothing from the Super Dungeon Explore: Legends KS has been delivered. Nothing.

And from the looks of it, nothing will ever be delivered. A $1.2M failure.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 21:53:30


Post by: Stormonu


All of this news makes me wonder what went on behind the scenes back with the RRT KS and how much ND screwed things up there - not that blissful ignorant Kevin would have done any better, but just how much ND’s bungles added to the pile.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 22:29:36


Post by: Monkeysloth


I'm sure a lot. We know for a fact that ND convinced Kevin to go with multipart even though he didn't want to due to cost (they had to resculpt everything for it for one). That alone is probably the largest factor that caused the games failure.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 22:41:23


Post by: JohnHwangDD


 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm sure a lot. We know for a fact that ND convinced Kevin to go with multipart even though he didn't want to due to cost (they had to resculpt everything for it for one). That alone is probably the largest factor that caused the games failure.


As a licensed property, there's also licensor approval - they could also have weighed in on whether multi-part would have been required.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/19 23:03:49


Post by: Monkeysloth


So Harmony Gold?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/20 00:31:27


Post by: warboss


 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm sure a lot. We know for a fact that ND convinced Kevin to go with multipart even though he didn't want to due to cost (they had to resculpt everything for it for one). That alone is probably the largest factor that caused the games failure.


I followed the Robotech KS very closely (as some of the folks posting in this thread can attest to) and I never saw anything like that ever posted by a principle party either in the facebook group, the KS comments, here on dakka, on the palladium forums, the weekly newsletters, official updates, etc. It's possible that I somehow missed something mindblowingly important like that (and apparently the entirety of the discussion afterwards on multiple sites across the internet) but it's not likely. I've seen Palladium sycophants like NMI hint at it in an attempt to desperately deflect as much blame as possible from Palladium but, judging from the outright lies he has told in the past regarding anything Robotech, I wouldn't trust that type of source as "a fact".

Don't get me wrong... I fully agree that ND likely played an important role in the failure and their subsequent failures sans Palladium back up that impression of their incompetence but Palladium was the company that cashed the checks and bragged about approving every little nook and cranny of the designs after hours of studious attention. Even after ND left the picture four years ago, Palladium continued to mislead and screw up for years until they lost the license. I'm sorry but all the info we have indicate Palladium was probably the largest factor that caused the game's failure.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/20 01:59:57


Post by: Monkeysloth


 warboss wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm sure a lot. We know for a fact that ND convinced Kevin to go with multipart even though he didn't want to due to cost (they had to resculpt everything for it for one). That alone is probably the largest factor that caused the games failure.


I followed the Robotech KS very closely (as some of the folks posting in this thread can attest to) and I never saw anything like that ever posted by a principle party either in the facebook group, the KS comments, here on dakka, on the palladium forums, the weekly newsletters, official updates, etc. It's possible that I somehow missed something mindblowingly important like that (and apparently the entirety of the discussion afterwards on multiple sites across the internet) but it's not likely. I've seen Palladium sycophants like NMI hint at it in an attempt to desperately deflect as much blame as possible from Palladium but, judging from the outright lies he has told in the past regarding anything Robotech, I wouldn't trust that type of source as "a fact".

Don't get me wrong... I fully agree that ND likely played an important role in the failure and their subsequent failures sans Palladium back up that impression of their incompetence but Palladium was the company that cashed the checks and bragged about approving every little nook and cranny of the designs after hours of studious attention. Even after ND left the picture four years ago, Palladium continued to mislead and screw up for years until they lost the license. I'm sorry but all the info we have indicate Palladium was probably the largest factor that caused the game's failure.


I'm not trying to absolve palladium of the failures where they had failures but I explicitly remember an email from Kevin, outside of the KSer I believe, where he talked about the move to multi-part and being convinced by ND that it would be the bees knees--this was shortly after the KSer closed so if it was deflection he knew years ago that it was a poor decision. I stated that this was what caused it to fail as it was the first domino so to speak. Kevin could have stopped the cascade many times but didn't but this was what kicked off things as the multipart was a failure in terms of cost, delivery and wrong crowd.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/20 02:13:05


Post by: warboss


 Monkeysloth wrote:

I'm not trying to absolve palladium of the failures where they had failures but I explicitly remember an email from Kevin, outside of the KSer I believe, where he talked about the move to multi-part and being convinced by ND that it would be the bees knees--this was shortly after the KSer closed so if it was deflection he knew years ago that it was a poor decision. I stated that this was what caused it to fail as it was the first domino so to speak. Kevin could have stopped the cascade many times but didn't but this was what kicked off things as the multipart was a failure in terms of cost, delivery and wrong crowd.


An email to you? If you still have it, a screenshot would be great given how little actual honest discussion Palladium engaged in for 5 years regarding the project.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/20 02:55:20


Post by: Monkeysloth


No it was a mailing list from palladium.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/20 07:49:01


Post by: jake


 LunarSol wrote:
 jake wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hm. I'm actually happy with the first RK kickstarter. Sure, at the time it was annoying that it was a year late and some minis were poor, but it was the first generation of tabletop kickstarters and it later turned out this was the norm for all KS projects. The game itself was good and innovative and everything promised was actually delivered. Soda Pop even replaced one of the exclusive Penny Arcade promos for me that was missing an arm eventhough I complained more than a year after delivery.


You may have been lucky. A lot of backers go really poor quality miniatures. we were stuck with over $1000 worth of stuff that looked like it had been melted with a hair dryer.
It REALLY varied depending on the faction. Early, soft, PVC, so a lot of mold shrinkage meant that bigger models held up better than the smaller ones and some of their scaling was iffy. I got the pirates, knights, and some of the student stuff. The students were generally small and lacked detail, particularly on the faces. Some were hilariously tiny but SPM fixed that. The base knight unit was a mess of tons of tiny parts and were why I gave up on assembly rather quickly. The pirates were overall pretty good though, with really only Squall being a notably poor figure. A few suffer from being obviously beginner sculpts (never daring to cross into the 3rd dimension) but even the small based stuff was pretty good. I focused on these guys when we recently started playing and.... not too bad really. The spec ops and Noh were also fine from what I played against. Haven't seen much of the racers in person.


It actually varied a lot from customer to customer. It seemed to vary by waves. Some customers (like you, I guess) got models that were mostly fine. Some customers got models that, as I said before, looked like they had been melted by a hairdryer. My friends and i got every model from every faction, and about 80% of them were like that. Malformed limbs, no details, no faces, sometimes completely smooth bodies. Hands that never fully formed, parts that were just globs of plastic. Quite a few backers complained about this, but there were always other people who said their models were fine, and for some reason assumed this was also the case for everyone else despite many complaints. Eventually the "The models are not amazing, but they're fine" people drowned out the "Our models are melted and totally unsuable people.

We eventually had to just throw away our stuff. It was unplayable and unsellable. I'd glad that wasn't the case for you, but it was definitely the case for a lot of us.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/20 09:30:16


Post by: JohnHwangDD


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hm. I'm actually happy with the first RK kickstarter.


FWIW, I know the RK1 stuff is a little OT, but we backed for mercs, ogres, bikers and more, and quality was generally par for the time - the models basically met expectations. OTOH, the game itself was very CCG-like and the color/shape selection was poorly distinguished. Building was bad, due to the fibrous material (same as Sedition Wars, ugh!). We sold basically everything almost immediately, only keeping a few models because "cool!" and were very glad just to get our money back.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/20 12:38:24


Post by: ced1106


> It seemed to vary by waves.

Not surprised. The quality of a resin miniature depends on the skill of the person casting it, and this includes Q&A of the figure and mold itself.So if you have more skilled casters on some waves and less skilled on others, the other waves are more likely to have poorly casted figures. IIRC, Finecast failed in part because they didn't have enough trained casters. Also, of course, you can outsource casting to different companies, so can have different results.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/20 13:10:44


Post by: Smokestack


I remember the email, or maybe it was one of Kevin's updates on the palladium site that talked about being talked in to multi-part. It's been a while... but I do remember that as well.

For Relic Knights, my group got every faction as well. It was very mixed. The Noh were all great. Sharp details, nice figures. The rest, not so much. Doctrine and Speed circuite being the worst offenders. Almost all had no faces... the Robots/ bikes etc were fine... but the people!!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/20 14:59:29


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


My Noh were only serviceable. The detail wasn't great, but due to the size I was able to at least discern what was what.
All my Doctrine got tossed as I couldn't tell what I was looking at.

I wasn't even a Kickstarter backer!


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/20 23:25:49


Post by: PsychoticStorm


I would say most (if not all) RK1 human sized models were.... not that great...quite far from it actually.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/21 07:03:45


Post by: Col Hammer


It seemed to me that the worst models in RK1 were, qualitywise, those models that were metal before the KS.

The metal models were transferred into plastics and the shrinkage was really bad.

The RK1 was my second big disapointment in KS (the first one was Seduction Wars: battle for Alabama or whatever it was...)

So I didn't take part in RK2 (yay for me?)

I did take part in SDE: Forgotten king and was happy with what I received, so in my head the RK1 failure was separate from SDE success. So I had no misgivings on taking part in SDE: Legends.

Turns out, SDE: Legends seems to be the first KS that will not deliver that I've backed. I've backed some duds like RK1, but even that did deliver. So this is the first non-delivery for me.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 01:49:51


Post by: angel of death 007


Relic knights 2 will be the second non funded kickstarter I took part in. The first one I lost around $100... Relic Knights was well over $400. It hurts but it was a lesson learned about kickstarter in general.

Since then I have not backed another kickstarter. I went from backing 1-2 a month to not backing any over the last 4 months or so. Honestly I don't think I will again. It would take a lot to even get me interested in going on the site again.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 03:32:30


Post by: JohnHwangDD


angel of death 007 wrote:
I went from backing 1-2 a month to not backing any over the last 4 months or so. Honestly I don't think I will again. It would take a lot to even get me interested in going on the site again.


1 or 2 each month? How much stuff did you get? With that kind of volume, I am sure you would have "enough" pretty quickly as things come in. Then you would naturally be more selective going forward.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 09:13:26


Post by: AduroT


How long do we keep two seperate threads on this topic going?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 17:03:49


Post by: warboss


With spikeybits promoting Prodos/Archon's AVP again on youtube, I was curious if any backers here on dakka got the remainder of their pledges since Jan 2018 when Prodos admitted that only 20% of their 2013 AVP kickstarter backers had gotten their pledges in full.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 17:05:20


Post by: skarsol


Hopefully we eventually get some news on how Prodos/Archon plans to dispose of the miniatures they've already cast here.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 17:22:02


Post by: Dark Severance


skarsol wrote:
Hopefully we eventually get some news on how Prodos/Archon plans to dispose of the miniatures they've already cast here.
Unless they come to some agreement, the only thing they can unfortunately do is destroy them. They can't even sell what they manufactured to recoup costs without an agreement from the main license holder. Even if they could, that would leave a bad taste because it basically becomes a wash for them. For a business they would usually destroy them, then claim it as a business loss which would be a better benefit to the company... not to those wanting the models unfortunately.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 17:59:42


Post by: His Master's Voice


 warboss wrote:
With spikeybits promoting Prodos/Archon's AVP again on youtube, I was curious if any backers here on dakka got the remainder of their pledges since Jan 2018 when Prodos admitted that only 20% of their 2013 AVP kickstarter backers had gotten their pledges in full.


I did. I could not find a third party retailer selling Atillas, so I ordered one from Prodos store when they were cutting the line and got my female Predators and Youngbloods along with it.



Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 18:51:29


Post by: Dark Severance


 warboss wrote:
With spikeybits promoting Prodos/Archon's AVP again on youtube, I was curious if any backers here on dakka got the remainder of their pledges since Jan 2018 when Prodos admitted that only 20% of their 2013 AVP kickstarter backers had gotten their pledges in full.
I received everything from my pledge, Real Aliens Ain't From Mars level. The main core box I picked up from GenCon, the other extras shipped later. I also received my Wave 2 and 3 items, twice even.

Note: For Wave 2 I did take advantage of ordering other items from them when they offered. I ordered Warzone Resurrection miniatures, using my coupons and credits from them. They shipped the first wave 2 items with that order.

They appeared to have an issue with their PM because I got an email notification that wave 2 had shipped, a few months later after already receiving them. Other Kickstarters have had similar issues when they went to audit their mail lists. I just thought it was a hiccup in the system and it was them updating their records that it had shipped since it was combined with an order. A couple weeks later though Wave 2 stuff came again. I had a similar thing happen with Wave 3 shipment items as well.

I did not order terrain and took a credit for the clear predators during wave 2 when they offered credits.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 19:04:12


Post by: JohnHwangDD


 Dark Severance wrote:
skarsol wrote:
Hopefully we eventually get some news on how Prodos/Archon plans to dispose of the miniatures they've already cast here.
Unless they come to some agreement, the only thing they can unfortunately do is destroy them. They can't even sell what they manufactured to recoup costs without an agreement from the main license holder. Even if they could, that would leave a bad taste because it basically becomes a wash for them. For a business they would usually destroy them, then claim it as a business loss which would be a better benefit to the company... not to those wanting the models unfortunately.


Yes, it's significantly cheaper and easier to trash the product than it is to invest more time and energy doing one-off sales and delivery. Unless someone is willing to purchase a bulk lot of, say, $50k worth of product in one order, I don't see any of it making its way to end-users.

I believe Prodos/Archon can liquidate the product to a third party, but the problem is doing so as generic SF figures means their value drops from $500k worth of Officially-licensed Starfinder miniatures down to $100k worth of generic sci-fi models. I'm not sure how that works, accounting-wise, and whether that would be preferable from a business standpoint, though I assume getting pennies on the dollar is better than paying pennies on the dollar.

OTOH, I'm pretty sure that Prodos/Archon doesn't want to see SPM/ND purchase the $500k worth of stuff for pennies on the dollar, either. Hence the reason that this stuff tends to get trashed.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 19:26:16


Post by: skarsol


The Starfinder stuff can go in the bin for all I care. ~


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 20:26:47


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Was Starfinder any good? Will anything of value be lost?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 21:09:14


Post by: Stormonu


I’m curious too about the Starfinder minis. I’ve seen some ship minis in the local FLGS, was there supposed to be a big line of ships and/or characters?


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 21:27:30


Post by: AduroT


 Stormonu wrote:
I’m curious too about the Starfinder minis. I’ve seen some ship minis in the local FLGS, was there supposed to be a big line of ships and/or characters?


The ones you saw were probably the prepainteds. The ones here are something else.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 23:44:09


Post by: JoeRugby


 warboss wrote:
With spikeybits promoting Prodos/Archon's AVP again on youtube, I was curious if any backers here on dakka got the remainder of their pledges since Jan 2018 when Prodos admitted that only 20% of their 2013 AVP kickstarter backers had gotten their pledges in full.


Got mine, took a lot of emails but eventually got my stuff after the big post on beasts of war.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 23:49:39


Post by: Nostromodamus


 warboss wrote:
With spikeybits promoting Prodos/Archon's AVP again on youtube, I was curious if any backers here on dakka got the remainder of their pledges since Jan 2018 when Prodos admitted that only 20% of their 2013 AVP kickstarter backers had gotten their pledges in full.


Got the core game and some extras, but am still owed stuff. Doesn’t seem to matter how many emails I send to various addresses I never hear anything back. I think my last interaction with them was them PMing me here on Dakka to ask me to stop talking gak about their shady business.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/22 23:55:13


Post by: angel of death 007


 JohnHwangDD wrote:
angel of death 007 wrote:
I went from backing 1-2 a month to not backing any over the last 4 months or so. Honestly I don't think I will again. It would take a lot to even get me interested in going on the site again.


1 or 2 each month? How much stuff did you get? With that kind of volume, I am sure you would have "enough" pretty quickly as things come in. Then you would naturally be more selective going forward.


I have backed a total of 35 kickstarters to date. Of that 24 have been delivered in entirety. One failed and went crickets .... Angry Mojo with their modular tray system. I lost out on like $100 there. I pledged two additonal not included on this because the company pulled the plug before the kickstarter closed. The ones I have unfulfilled I have a strong belief that they will fulfill. I have backed several after Relic Knights2 but none after relic knights two ghosted and and the rumors started to come out.

Problem I have with it was Ninja Division wasn't a fly by night kinda business so it was why I went in so deep at $400. The models and designs were pretty sweet and they had acutally produced models before (I wasn't in their first Kickstarter). And after having Raging heros fall like 3 years behind before and still fulfill I guess I had too much faith where all I was really worried about was it taking much longer, which is the typical theme of kickstarter.

I got past the first failed one but Relic Knights 2 left me way too sour. In the past two years I easily backed 20+ kickstarters. But all it takes is one really bad apple. I would have to have something I absolutely loved with a company I had a ton of faith in to back another project on Kickstarter.

Manic always does great on theirs, Raging Heroes I would... probably, monoliath are fantastic and I think only do kickstarters now but their work is impressive and they deliever some serious quality. I feel bad because I like to support new companies and designers as they will be the ones hopefully to possibly take GW off their throne one day and bring them back to reality. A company without competition can charge what they want as GW has proven. But it will be very hard now for me to blindly invest as I did before.

I had taken my hobby budget that used to go to GW during 6th and 7th edition 40k and redirected it because those editions were horrible. But with 8th edition and the failing of kickstarter it pulled my funds back to supporting the evil giant of GW. Sad really.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/23 00:20:58


Post by: warboss


Thanks for all the replies so far from Nostrodamus, Joe Rugby, Dark Severance, and His Master's Voice. It sounds like they might still have some fulfillment issues but maybe less than a year ago with most folks getting them either by paying more for an additional order, bugging them, or saving them money for a service you already paid for like shipping by picking up in person. Still, an improvement is still an improvement; I wonder what percentage still has renaming pledges now. The kickstarter page was false copyright claimed by Prodos themselves years ago so I don't know how/if they send out notifications. There was a Facebook group but numerous reports were that if you asked too much for their liking about your items that you got booted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormonu wrote:I’m curious too about the Starfinder minis. I’ve seen some ship minis in the local FLGS, was there supposed to be a big line of ships and/or characters?


Kid_Kyoto wrote:Was Starfinder any good? Will anything of value be lost?



They're decent scifi minis IMO with an obvious Starfinder theme but can still be used for most generic scifi and scifantasy settings (the latter being a more accurate description for the rules/setting) but definitely nothing mind blowing that'll knock your socks off. You've got traditional d&d stuff like dwarves, dragons, and orcs in space mixed in with typical scifi tropes like bugs, robots, and Roswell greys . Here is the kickstarter all in pledge image. Almost of the drawings had sculpted posted in later updates.

Spoiler:


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/23 05:50:24


Post by: firmlog


I was going to say they look a little cartoony, with that mix of hard scifi. Really nothing pops out and for hard scifi there's lots of other companies doing the same or better.


Prodos-Ninja Division unpaid games pg 4 @ 2019/02/23 13:46:10


Post by: CptJake


 Nostromodamus wrote:
 warboss wrote:
With spikeybits promoting Prodos/Archon's AVP again on youtube, I was curious if any backers here on dakka got the remainder of their pledges since Jan 2018 when Prodos admitted that only 20% of their 2013 AVP kickstarter backers had gotten their pledges in full.


Got the core game and some extras, but am still owed stuff. Doesn’t seem to matter how many emails I send to various addresses I never hear anything back. I think my last interaction with them was them PMing me here on Dakka to ask me to stop talking gak about their shady business.


I'm still missing a few items as well.