So yeah, there are lots of questions about this one!
Is it taking place PRE or POST Snap?
Almost definitely POST snap.
Coming so close on the heels of AVENGERS 4, it is going to be REALLY hard to market this one, unless Disney/Marvel realized that everyone else realized that most of the 'deaths' in INFINITY WAR aren't sticking - at least, not the ones that took place in that movie.
BUT...more importantly, it looks as if, for at least some of the movie, the classic Mysterio costume will be in place!
And yes, I'm hoping that it can really be done well - there's always a chance it will look...not so good.
And maybe they end up cribbing a bit from Ultimate Mysterio (who was really kinda sorta 616 Mysterio) and give him a 'holographic distortion' look, or an energy field but I really do hope a version of the classic fish bowl makes it in, and that it looks good!
What we've seen so far looks promising:
Video
Spoiler:
Pics
Spoiler:
From the setting of that scene, it seems like it might also borrow a bit from the classic ASM #65/#66 too - nice!
I'm a big Spider-Man fan, and yeah, I'm really looking forward to this movie.
Seems like the MCU might get to the Sinister Six before Sony does too, what with the Vulture, the Scorpion and Mysterio now being in universe. And it looks like they'll be powered by recovered/re-purposed Chitauri tech too...
Well arguably most street level crime will be tech developed from chitauri tech now.
The tinkerer is responsible for most tech out there. And he didnt get arrested. Beyond a certain point he doesnt need the chitauri source. He likely reverse engineers and builds on what he needs.
Mysterio could be col if done well. But what i really wanted was scorpion. They set him up. Let me see that scorpion suit.
Never been a huge Scorpion fan. He's cool, but as a character there's really never been anything there in any of his incarnations. He could be a Spider Slayer bot for all it matters. I'd certainly be interested in seeing what the MCU could do with him, but for me he's always been on the unmotivated muscle side of the equation. Given what they pulled off with Vulture though? I'm up for anything.
Given that the current Scorpion's actor has done a phenomenal job in Better Call Saul as Nacho, (and his other known role as Vaas in FC3), I'd say they'd be able to do a good spin on the Scorpion role with him.
Mysterio wrote: I wouldn't base much on that grainy video/pic though.
And besides, his cape is the *least* of my concerns!
That’s true! You should be more upset at the prospect of this movie not living up to the namesake! You’re, or his in the comics! And if it’s more like Homecoming and less like Civil War and Infinity War, I’d say that’s a legit concern!
Mysterio wrote: So yeah, there are lots of questions about this one!
Is it taking place PRE or POST Snap?
Almost definitely POST snap.
Apparently Kevin Feige said it will take place minutes after Avengers 4, which is interesting. Will it take a moment to show how Spider-man adjusts to post-Thanos life, or will the end of Avengers 4 directly link straight into Homecoming?
Of course, A4 could end with a scene set some time *after* the Snap Reversal, meaning that S:FFH could still take place a good amount of time down the road from Peter returning to life.
We know they'll have to have the obligatory sad funeral scene for whichever hero(es) get perma-killed in A4.
And if Kevin is dealing with us straight, it also confirms a whole bunch of people who have survived the snap AND A4!
I kind of recall when the title was first announced there were comments that it was in reference to re-adjusting to normalcy after all the outer space shenanigans.
Unless Peter now feels that outer-space is his new home?
Or maybe this movie starts with him in outer-space, far from home, but then he rather quickly returns...home?
Though I'm sure the title will have at least a dual meaning, and it isn't just a reference to his school trip abroad.
There's the possibility of briefly dipping into the spider-verse, but I doubt that since we already have a movie coming out that deals explicitly with this.
LunarSol wrote: I kind of recall when the title was first announced there were comments that it was in reference to re-adjusting to normalcy after all the outer space shenanigans.
It almost feels like they're setting it up to parallel the themes between Avengers and Iron Man 3. Not that I'm complaining, Iron Man 3 was great.
When I saw IM3 at the cinema I came out pretty underwhelmed at the Mandarin bait and switch but the more I've watched it, the higher it's climbed up my MCU ranking. It's definitely one of the most underrated MCU movies. Iron Man 2 was very much just OK.
What Avengers/IM3 themes are you seeing parallels with here?
Spoilers for Avengers and Infinity War
Spoiler:
Stark going through the wormhole at the end of Avengers leads to him suffering from PTSD which affects almost all of his decisions throughout IM3, because he doesn't know how to deal with the fact that aliens exist, earth is under threat and he almost died carrying a nuke into space.
It seems like SM:FFH will deal with similar issues, although because Peter Parker grew up in a world with aliens and life threatening events happening every few months, it deals with the "I actually died. I turned to dust in the arms of my hero" angle and the trauma that would cause. Maybe he doesn't want to be a hero anymore because of it, or maybe he goes the Stark route and goes over the top, trying to stop any possible threat he can think of
it just feels like they'll be touching on similar themes of going through a life changing event and how to overcome it
I hope they do the Mysterio dresses up as spiderman and robs banks to convince the world that spiderman is bad so that he has to deal with people disliking him.
Spidermans at his best when hes down and out but having some fun anyway.
Mysterio wrote: That's an opinion that I've rarely seen expressed!
While I certainly enjoyed IM3, but not many feel that it reached the level of 'great'. (IM2 is similarly viewed as "OK".)
What Avengers/IM3 themes are you seeing parallels with here?
I loved IM3. I like the Mandarin well enough I suppose but he's never been a true classic and the number of people acting like he's a Magneto or Doom is pretty ridiculous. The swap was a great fix for a character who hasn't worked in decades and for what its worth, Killian's apperance at the end of the film was very much in line with the Extremis version of the character. It's a film I really need to watch more often and really doesn't deserve the hate it receives. Not in Marvel's top 5, but also nowhere near the bottom. I'd have to do some thinking to see if it could crack my top 10, but I wouldn't rule it out; there's just a LOT of good movies in the MCU.
It’s not uncommon for a MCU debut to run characters through various, starting with comic classics.
This could be his stage costume, from the moment he turns villain for whatever reason. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a more practical outfit later.
I don’t think that’s what’s going to happen, but if it does, and we get the classic and something like the Ultimate version (which is hilarious in its origin!) in this movie?
I am probably one of the few that didn't like Homecoming, except that I thought Keaton was a great Vulture.
Part of it is the talking costume, part of it is Holland himself. He looks the part, but man his voice gets annoying quickly. Def fits in the MCU over the last two, don't get me wrong, but I am just not a huge fan of Spidey compare to many of the other characters.
I do think whats his name as Mysterio will knock it out of the park tho.
I am guessing thats not ACTUALLY hydro man. I bet mysterio is pulling shennanigans to look like a hero while he gets away with gak.
"Il go fight "hydro man" and in the fight we will smash this hole in the bank. You guys get the loot. Il finish the "fight". And everyone will cheer and clap for me. Win-win!"
Alpharius wrote: I'm pretty sure that yes, that's what's happening.
I think I read that 'theory' a few places online already.
Weird that he'd be able to fake out Nick and Maria too though.
High-tech chicanery for the win!
(And it llooks like we now know of at least 3 people now that will be un-snapped!)
I think he's not faking out Nick and Maria, but that is the reason that they go to Peter in the first place, they think he's doing that and Peter happens to be an "asset" in play.
Lance845 wrote: I am guessing thats not ACTUALLY hydro man. I bet mysterio is pulling shennanigans to look like a hero while he gets away with gak.
"Il go fight "hydro man" and in the fight we will smash this hole in the bank. You guys get the loot. Il finish the "fight". And everyone will cheer and clap for me. Win-win!"
Given that there's also a giant rock guy, my first (and probably inaccurate) thought was the Absorbing Man, last seen in the Ang Lee Hulk.
I am really happy about the suit and fishbowl helmet they look so on point. I like the idea of him being an actual illusionist and not just some technologist.
Lance845 wrote: I am guessing thats not ACTUALLY hydro man. I bet mysterio is pulling shennanigans to look like a hero while he gets away with gak.
"Il go fight "hydro man" and in the fight we will smash this hole in the bank. You guys get the loot. Il finish the "fight". And everyone will cheer and clap for me. Win-win!"
Given that there's also a giant rock guy, my first (and probably inaccurate) thought was the Absorbing Man, last seen in the Ang Lee Hulk.
MCU Absorbing Man was a recurring character in Agents of Shield.
I'm gonna throw another vote on the "he's faking all of it for the likes/as a smokescreen for crime" pile. If so, it seems like the MCU Spiderman films are using their villains to explore the impact of a super-world on "regular folks", which is cool, and if Vulture was any indication should result in some cool and nuanced villains in future if they keep happening and following that theme. We've had "working schlub has life ruined by well-meaning billionaire supey-hero and turns to crime", this one could be "special effects wizard can't compete with the IRL spectacle of super heroes and goes wonko", and in future we could have "scientist resents being made redundant by super-duper alien tech so uses said tech to become evil". Obviously they'd write it better than me
Lance845 wrote: I am guessing thats not ACTUALLY hydro man. I bet mysterio is pulling shennanigans to look like a hero while he gets away with gak.
"Il go fight "hydro man" and in the fight we will smash this hole in the bank. You guys get the loot. Il finish the "fight". And everyone will cheer and clap for me. Win-win!"
Given that there's also a giant rock guy, my first (and probably inaccurate) thought was the Absorbing Man, last seen in the Ang Lee Hulk.
Gonna book off a half day, and go to the 13:30 showing up That London.
Reviews seem positive, if not outright glowing. Me? Well up for this. Thoroughly enjoyed Homecoming (I'm aware the jury is somewhat split on that effort), so should enjoy this.
I’m not massively familiar with them, but seem to recall Mysterio is a near constant member?
So with him being in the MCU? And Vulture? What does that mean for Sony doing a movie without Marvel? Would It have to be a multiverse thing, allowing for recasting etc?
I’m not massively familiar with them, but seem to recall Mysterio is a near constant member?
So with him being in the MCU? And Vulture? What does that mean for Sony doing a movie without Marvel? Would It have to be a multiverse thing, allowing for recasting etc?
Sony needs to just stay the feth out of it. Into the Spiderverse is the fluke great thing they made and everything else has been crap.
I’m not massively familiar with them, but seem to recall Mysterio is a near constant member?
So with him being in the MCU? And Vulture? What does that mean for Sony doing a movie without Marvel? Would It have to be a multiverse thing, allowing for recasting etc?
I think the only real constant is...Doc Ock?
But I do believe Mysterio is around for quite a few of the reunions!
Original Sinister Six - Doc Ock, Electro, Vulture, Sandman, Mysterio, Kraven.
So, except for Kraven...they've all been on screen recently (more or less), but unfortunately, only Vulture and Mysterio have been MCU - with the Scorpion (and the Shocker!) being 'hinted' at.
I imagine scorpion is coming real soon. They have talked about doing kraven for years now. Doc oct really needs a mcu treatment. And sandman maybe part of the newest movie?
I do wonder if Marvel’s ‘loosening up’ after End Game (so still connected, but not necessarily all building to One Big Bad) might make Sinister Six easier to do?
Potentially as a sort of Reverse Avengers, depending on if, how and when each is introduced?
I mean, Vulture, Shocker and Mysterio are seemingly in the bag. And I understand the guy that talks to Vulture in Prison is the man behind the mask of Scorpion?
If that’s right, and provided there’s no-one else inserted as a tease/surprise in Far From Home? They’d only need to introduce two more from Spidey’s Rogues Gallery.
Now, Morbius is in the offing as a Sony effort. And much as I utterly loathe the actor, that could be number 5?
Hell, as a bit of a twist, could see the Hell’s Kitchen crew rock up to assist Spidey? OK I admit that’s my own fanboy wish - but, y’know, this is the MCU. I wouldn’t rule anything out.
Yeah, the guy who was going to buy the weapons on the boat and then showed up with the broken arm in prison talking to Vulture was Mac Gargan. AKA The Scorpion (who also had a scorpion tattoo on his neck). He said he knew somebody that was interested in taking down spiderman. That could either be Doc Oct who will be behind arming Scorpion and potentially others or it could be Norman Osborn doing something similar. Remember, SOMEBODY bought Avengers Tower and Tony was moving everything out. Avengers Tower could soon be Oscorp. Or maybe it's going to be the Baxter Building (Fantastic 4 home base/think tank).
Yeah, Sinister 6 as the "Anti-Avengers" could be a cool foil for MCU Spidey. You might not even need to introduce all 6 before the movie itself. Vulture, Mysterio, Shocker and Scorpion are already lurking in the MCU, so you could intro Doc Oc as the "leader" + 1 other baddie and you're done.
Could call it "Spiderman - Homeward Bound" or "Spiderman - Homeland Security" (those are awful names, BTW)
I've always said that Spider-Man: Homecoming was only called that because Marvel wouldn't've gotten away with calling it Spider-Man: Victory Lap.
Anyway, Far From Home, which I saw yesterday:
Spoiler:
You can forget your Sinister 6 dreams if they involve Mysterio, 'cause he dead!
Overall this was a well paced and amusing movie that did a lot to develop Peter as a character in a post-Snap/un-Snap/post-Tony Stark world. Peter is filled with self-doubt and a desire to run away from it all, but is eventually pulled back in when he realises that he's being foolish.
Major props to Jake Giggawatt for his portrayal of Quentin Beck. An amazing character that comes across as so noble and self-sacrificing for so much of the movie that even those expecting him to be full of gak will forget that he is a bold-faced liar, and always has been.
His whole [/i]"I'm from another universe, and I'm hear to save yours!"[/i] is of course total utter horse gak, and the modernisation of his backstory (including a real deep dive into Iron Man 1!) is really well put together. Also the "illusion" sequences where Beck is fething with Peter are very cool to look at.
The rest of the cast does a good job for the most part, with Zendaya getting a lot more to do this time around. Ned/Betty's storyline didn't really ring true to me and was just kind of annoying, even if it helped move things along in places. Their hapless teacher chaperones are very funny. Flash is a stuck-up moron as usual. Happy is great. Fury/Hill (such as they are), are a lot of fun. May is... ummph.
So yeah, a generally enjoyable film that I will certainly be seeing again.
Ok, separate section for the two (very very very important) post-credit scenes:
Spoiler:
We'll start with the second one that comes right at the end.
Fury and Hill were not Fury and hill for the entire film. Instead they were Talos and his wife. Skrulls!!! Except they're working for Fury, and Fury is on a space station/ship somewhere, crewed by other Skrulls. It opens up -so- many questions.
And the first post-credits scene changes this from a nice resolution to a complete cliffhanger, with Beck's final "Feth you!" to Peter revealing Spider-Man's identity and framing him for the attack in London and doing so by way of none other than J. Jonah Jameson played once again, and in a moment that made the audience in my theatre cheer, by JK Simmons!!! That sequence was short, but incredible, and just makes you want to see what happens next.
Here's hoping that we get some kind of tease at Comic-Con this year.
So have fun with that guys.
[EDIT]: One other thing I do want to bring up, and this isn't a spoiler for the film, is just how large Tony Stark/Iron Man looms over the entire events of the film. Everywhere they go across Europe there are establishing shots or camera pans that show off murals or graffiti of Stark/Iron Man. Some are in airports, some are just on building walls, some are shrines surrounded by candles. They never really draw attention to it, but it's an effective visual motif.
Also, this movie straight up shows what the un-Snap looked like. It's very funny.
Saw this last night. I thought it was great, although not quite as good as homecoming. I think I might have enjoyed it a bit more if I didn't know who Mysterio was, because that obviously messes up the movie a little in ways that I think the trailer makes readily apparent.
If nothing else, this made me rewatch a minute of Iron Man for a second and yup, checks out
That surprises me. I assume there is something in the movie with Stan Lee, like a photo in the background somewhere.
I would doubt there will ever be a movie moving forward without some kind of Stan Lee reference, however obscure, in there somewhere
Cracking film overall. As others have said, well paced, beautifully shot etc.
Spoiler:
I also picked up on a snippet of chat between Fury and Hill, mentioning Kree sleeper cells... Easily missed, but definitely in there.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Though, that being said.....
It does retain the deliberate goofiness of the first. Now I for one loved that. But, if it put you off Homecoming, you may want to think of you want to watch this one.
I still recommend it, because it is really funny! But, yeah.
I do not recall a single Stan Lee reference in the movie. At the beginning there was what I assumed would be an "in memoriam" for Stan Lee but it turned out to be for... someone else.
I saw it. Echo all the it's really great. However...
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've always said that Spider-Man: Homecoming was only called that because Marvel wouldn't've gotten away with calling it Spider-Man: Victory Lap.
Anyway, Far From Home, which I saw yesterday:
Spoiler:
You can forget your Sinister 6 dreams if they involve Mysterio, 'cause he dead!
Overall this was a well paced and amusing movie that did a lot to develop Peter as a character in a post-Snap/un-Snap/post-Tony Stark world. Peter is filled with self-doubt and a desire to run away from it all, but is eventually pulled back in when he realises that he's being foolish.
Major props to Jake Giggawatt for his portrayal of Quentin Beck. An amazing character that comes across as so noble and self-sacrificing for so much of the movie that even those expecting him to be full of gak will forget that he is a bold-faced liar, and always has been.
His whole [/i]"I'm from another universe, and I'm hear to save yours!"[/i] is of course total utter horse gak, and the modernisation of his backstory (including a real deep dive into Iron Man 1!) is really well put together. Also the "illusion" sequences where Beck is fething with Peter are very cool to look at.
The rest of the cast does a good job for the most part, with Zendaya getting a lot more to do this time around. Ned/Betty's storyline didn't really ring true to me and was just kind of annoying, even if it helped move things along in places. Their hapless teacher chaperones are very funny. Flash is a stuck-up moron as usual. Happy is great. Fury/Hill (such as they are), are a lot of fun. May is... ummph.
So yeah, a generally enjoyable film that I will certainly be seeing again.
Ok, separate section for the two (very very very important) post-credit scenes:
Spoiler:
We'll start with the second one that comes right at the end.
Fury and Hill were not Fury and hill for the entire film. Instead they were Talos and his wife. Skrulls!!! Except they're working for Fury, and Fury is on a space station/ship somewhere, crewed by other Skrulls. It opens up -so- many questions.
And the first post-credits scene changes this from a nice resolution to a complete cliffhanger, with Beck's final "Feth you!" to Peter revealing Spider-Man's identity and framing him for the attack in London and doing so by way of none other than J. Jonah Jameson played once again, and in a moment that made the audience in my theatre cheer, by JK Simmons!!! That sequence was short, but incredible, and just makes you want to see what happens next.
Here's hoping that we get some kind of tease at Comic-Con this year.
So have fun with that guys.
[EDIT]: One other thing I do want to bring up, and this isn't a spoiler for the film, is just how large Tony Stark/Iron Man looms over the entire events of the film. Everywhere they go across Europe there are establishing shots or camera pans that show off murals or graffiti of Stark/Iron Man. Some are in airports, some are just on building walls, some are shrines surrounded by candles. They never really draw attention to it, but it's an effective visual motif.
Also, this movie straight up shows what the un-Snap looked like. It's very funny.
Spoiler:
There is no chance in hell that Mysterio is dead. Let me lay out a case.
1) In the comic Beck has faked his death before.
2) the contract for Sony Spiderman movies states that Peter is not allowed to kill or through inaction allow others to die. It can never be his fault.
3) Beck says "I am going to show them exactly what I want them to see,"
Then he has a hologram of himself get shot. Not himself. Then he edits together a video that shows all those shots where he was not in the Mysterio suit except he is now in the suit on camera and from a new angle. He even gave Peter the glasses to do the thing even though the glasses don't actually do anything anymore. In fact, they established earlier in the movie that they require confirmation to transfer control, which Beck never did. That video is interspersed with self shot video of him making reveals while "injured" which can only happen if hes planning to be injured and he filmed it before or after. And finally, Peters only method for checking to make sure he was dead was to use the glasses (which again, are not the actual control method for Edith anymore. Beck took it out of the glasses) and he doesn't need a hologram to just do some good acting and make use of practical effects. The crew that picks up his "body" is just his support staff. They fake him dieing a hero, defame Spiderman, and sit around laughing their asses off. When he shows back up, he just pretends to be THIS Earths Beck since everyone still believes he is from another dimension.
Not only is Mysertio still alive. He still has full control over a fleet of drones and a series of satellites. He got away with everything in this movie.
Further ponderings from the foetid mire I'm assured is actually my brain....
Highlight of the film, for me?
Spoiler:
When Mysterio goes Full Mysterio on Spidey. It reminds me heavily of Scarecrow in Arkham Asylum, and I don't think that's coincidence. It's wonderfully executed overall.
Showing how powerful Mysterio can be when, as Spidey correctly says 'he's just a guy' is a worthy addition to the MCU in terms of villians - and he's definitely up there in terms of memorable ones. In fact, I make that two for two in terms of Spidey Villains.
Really do hope we get to see a Vulture and Mysterio team-up. Because I am also unconvinced he defo, 100% carked it. Unless The Authorities recovered his body, and there was a post-mortem.
There is no chance in hell that Mysterio is dead. Let me lay out a case.
Spoiler:
Plus, we can't be sure that anything he did in that scene that didn't involve physical contact with Peter (ie, when his arm is grabbed) was really him, including getting shot.
And I did have some moments when i was thinking "huh, Nick Fury's changed a bit since being restored", but I didn't know it was building up to that.
And I kind of liked the the villain's motivation was virtually the same as whatsisface from Iron Man 3, only now it was meant to be absurdly petty.
There is no chance in hell that Mysterio is dead. Let me lay out a case.
Spoiler:
Plus, we can't be sure that anything he did in that scene that didn't involve physical contact with Peter (ie, when his arm is grabbed) was really him, including getting shot.
And I did have some moments when i was thinking "huh, Nick Fury's changed a bit since being restored", but I didn't know it was building up to that.
And I kind of liked the the villain's motivation was virtually the same as whatsisface from Iron Man 3, only now it was meant to be absurdly petty.
Spoiler:
Also i would like to point out that once again the real villain is Tony Stark. Who not only makes all his own villains but most of everyone elses. At this point the tinker, shocker, vulture, and mysterio are more or less directly Tonys fault. Along with ultron, iron monger, the entire organization aim, whiplash, and more to come in the future i am sure.
There is no chance in hell that Mysterio is dead. Let me lay out a case.
Spoiler:
Plus, we can't be sure that anything he did in that scene that didn't involve physical contact with Peter (ie, when his arm is grabbed) was really him, including getting shot.
And I did have some moments when i was thinking "huh, Nick Fury's changed a bit since being restored", but I didn't know it was building up to that.
And I kind of liked the the villain's motivation was virtually the same as whatsisface from Iron Man 3, only now it was meant to be absurdly petty.
Spoiler:
Also i would like to point out that once again the real villain is Tony Stark. Who not only makes all his own villains but most of everyone elses. At this point the tinker, shocker, vulture, and mysterio are more or less directly Tonys fault. Along with ultron, iron monger, the entire organization aim, whiplash, and more to come in the future i am sure.
Spoiler:
I'm still really annoyed about the misuse of AIM. This whole group of villains behind Mysterio could have been AIM related.
I wonder if they are going to try and set up a Brand New Day storyline with that Mysterio reveal at the end.
While I didn't love FFH, I think it is interesting how they are trying to use Spider-Man as the new Iron Man. He's young enough where if he is fine with playing the role for a while he could be Spider-Man for decades.
Another disappointing one for me, maybe it's me and not the movies, but I have just gotten bored of the utterly predictable and contrived marvel movies, I was even bored by the mess that was end game :(
Lance845 wrote: I saw it. Echo all the it's really great. However...
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've always said that Spider-Man: Homecoming was only called that because Marvel wouldn't've gotten away with calling it Spider-Man: Victory Lap.
Anyway, Far From Home, which I saw yesterday:
Spoiler:
You can forget your Sinister 6 dreams if they involve Mysterio, 'cause he dead!
Overall this was a well paced and amusing movie that did a lot to develop Peter as a character in a post-Snap/un-Snap/post-Tony Stark world. Peter is filled with self-doubt and a desire to run away from it all, but is eventually pulled back in when he realises that he's being foolish.
Major props to Jake Giggawatt for his portrayal of Quentin Beck. An amazing character that comes across as so noble and self-sacrificing for so much of the movie that even those expecting him to be full of gak will forget that he is a bold-faced liar, and always has been.
His whole [/i]"I'm from another universe, and I'm hear to save yours!"[/i] is of course total utter horse gak, and the modernisation of his backstory (including a real deep dive into Iron Man 1!) is really well put together. Also the "illusion" sequences where Beck is fething with Peter are very cool to look at.
The rest of the cast does a good job for the most part, with Zendaya getting a lot more to do this time around. Ned/Betty's storyline didn't really ring true to me and was just kind of annoying, even if it helped move things along in places. Their hapless teacher chaperones are very funny. Flash is a stuck-up moron as usual. Happy is great. Fury/Hill (such as they are), are a lot of fun. May is... ummph.
So yeah, a generally enjoyable film that I will certainly be seeing again.
Ok, separate section for the two (very very very important) post-credit scenes:
Spoiler:
We'll start with the second one that comes right at the end.
Fury and Hill were not Fury and hill for the entire film. Instead they were Talos and his wife. Skrulls!!! Except they're working for Fury, and Fury is on a space station/ship somewhere, crewed by other Skrulls. It opens up -so- many questions.
And the first post-credits scene changes this from a nice resolution to a complete cliffhanger, with Beck's final "Feth you!" to Peter revealing Spider-Man's identity and framing him for the attack in London and doing so by way of none other than J. Jonah Jameson played once again, and in a moment that made the audience in my theatre cheer, by JK Simmons!!! That sequence was short, but incredible, and just makes you want to see what happens next.
Here's hoping that we get some kind of tease at Comic-Con this year.
So have fun with that guys.
[EDIT]: One other thing I do want to bring up, and this isn't a spoiler for the film, is just how large Tony Stark/Iron Man looms over the entire events of the film. Everywhere they go across Europe there are establishing shots or camera pans that show off murals or graffiti of Stark/Iron Man. Some are in airports, some are just on building walls, some are shrines surrounded by candles. They never really draw attention to it, but it's an effective visual motif.
Also, this movie straight up shows what the un-Snap looked like. It's very funny.
Spoiler:
There is no chance in hell that Mysterio is dead. Let me lay out a case.
1) In the comic Beck has faked his death before.
2) the contract for Sony Spiderman movies states that Peter is not allowed to kill or through inaction allow others to die. It can never be his fault.
3) Beck says "I am going to show them exactly what I want them to see,"
Then he has a hologram of himself get shot. Not himself. Then he edits together a video that shows all those shots where he was not in the Mysterio suit except he is now in the suit on camera and from a new angle. He even gave Peter the glasses to do the thing even though the glasses don't actually do anything anymore. In fact, they established earlier in the movie that they require confirmation to transfer control, which Beck never did. That video is interspersed with self shot video of him making reveals while "injured" which can only happen if hes planning to be injured and he filmed it before or after. And finally, Peters only method for checking to make sure he was dead was to use the glasses (which again, are not the actual control method for Edith anymore. Beck took it out of the glasses) and he doesn't need a hologram to just do some good acting and make use of practical effects. The crew that picks up his "body" is just his support staff. They fake him dieing a hero, defame Spiderman, and sit around laughing their asses off. When he shows back up, he just pretends to be THIS Earths Beck since everyone still believes he is from another dimension.
Not only is Mysertio still alive. He still has full control over a fleet of drones and a series of satellites. He got away with everything in this movie.
OK...
Spoiler:
I REALLY hope you're right as Mysterio is one of my favorite villains AND Jake was killing it (pun intended!) as Mysterio - especially once he had it all and was the director of his own real life movie!
Mysterio Inc. has real potential - and as much as I really want him to still be alive and in charge, I think moving forward someone else in his crew will be "Mysterio" - but I hope I'm wrong and it is still Quentin/Jake Gyllenhaal.
After all, I think Peter only asked E.D.I.T.H. "Is this real?" and E.D.I.T.H. responded with something like "All illusions are down" - leaving a nice loophole for Quentin to be 'for real' "faking" being dead there...maybe?
"Beck" is truly dead. Ralphie from A Christmas Story is seen downloading something to a flash drive after Mysterio's death, and running off with it. Considering he was the Guy in the Chair/effect wizard for Mysterio, he probably had a ton of raw footage of Beck from earlier rehearsals. He cut and edited this stuff with recordings from the damaged drones that were around Beck when he died, and used the same technowizard necromancy Disney used to bring Pete Cushing back from the dead for Rogue One to have Mysterio finger Spidey for all the evil. Now, this doesn't prevent Mysterio from showing up in a Sinister Six movie, as Ralphie still has a few drones he himself built/controls (ones they had before they got control of EDITH) and all the shots of Mysterio flying/fighting were hologram projections anyway... so, it will be Ralphie pretending to be Mysterio, instead of Beck pretending to be Mysterio.
At least, that's how I expect it will play out.
Overall, I seriously dug this movie. I loved Homecoming; I loved this one. I'm digging the new Spidey series. I especially like that they made MJ so much less hate-able this time around. She's actually a genuinely fun character once or twice in the movie. And I love how Happy got brought back in line with his earlier portrayals. He was a dismissive jerk in Homecoming, but they let him go back to his somewhat goofy, but supportive self. But the best character for me is the science teacher, Mr Dell. J.B. Smoove is solid gold. He steals every scene he is in.
I am going to write some stuff in spoilers and do not want it to appear on mouse over of the thread.
Spoiler:
EDITH is not in the glasses anymore. The moment Beck (not even his real name BTW. If you remember during his speech he points to his story writer and says something along the lines of "A story about a man named Quentin from another world...". We don't know WHO he is.) finished his speech he handed off the glasses and told them to upload EDITH into their system. When he was doing the test of the combined elementals in the room with the pillars he called on EDITH with a couple clicks of a keyboard and spoke to her WITHOUT the glasses to search for the missing projector. The glasses don't do anything any more. PLUS, It was established in the bar that you have to command her to transfer control and give vocal confirmation. Which he never did. The whole thing, including EDITH saying "Execute all commands?" was set up to get Peter to say "Execute". Which means he intended for Peter to get the glasses in the first place (which again do nothing) which means he intended to get himself put into a position where he "looses" and Peter takes them. When Peter asks EDITH if it was real, there is a slight delay, and then a response, as though someone else is speaking into a mike and having their voice modulated to EDITHs. "You'll see Peter. People want to believe. And these days... they will believe anything." He is EXACTLY the kind of prick to tell Peter his plan as he does it knowing Peter won't get it.
Again, No fething way he's dead. The Mysterio that ended up on the ground dieing was FINE when he pulled the gun on him. The worst thing that happened to him was getting his wrist grabbed. So why did he fall down and die? Because he shows a reality after a reality after a reality so fast that you start mixing up the details. THAT one got shot, so when this one PRETENDS to have been shot you don't remember that it was the illusion that got shot and not the one you are looking at now. It worked on Peter and it worked on the movie going audience. The other major clue is the dome helmet. When it's really him the dome is there. When it's the illusion it's not. (He fakes getting himself shot by Fury (no dome helmet) pretends to be Fury, then steps out of the illusion and is himself (dome helmet).) After he fills the bridge with drones and they illusion up and Peter uses his spider sense you never see the dome again. No Beck from that point forward is wholly the real Beck. At best it's him inside of a illusion suit like in the test room. When the drones fly away, it's because Mysterio Inc. sends them away to complete the illusion.
OMG... my buddy just told me something he says he noticed that might confirm things (more). Ive already seen the movie twice this weekend so I won't get to see it again for a bit. If anyone else goes to see it and can confirm or deny this I would really appreciate it.
I am going to write some stuff in spoilers and do not want it to appear on mouse over of the thread.
Spoiler:
Okay...
So at the end of the bridge fight things play out like this.
1) Peter busts through the floor feet first, sticks the ceiling, grabs Mysterio and punches him in the face mask breaking the clear dome with all the read outs on it.
2) Some drones separate them. Mysterio is on the opposite side of the bridge and he calls in the bunches of drones and they all illusion up.
3) Peter does his spider sense fight.
4) Beck is like "Why arn't these drones shooting!" EDITH "You are in the kill zone" Beck: "Fire them ALL!" and Beck gets shot.
Here is the question. When Beck has that drone conversation and he is yelling is he wearing the clear dome helmet with the readouts and if he is, is it cracked or in perfect condition?
My friend says he IS wearing it AND that it is in perfect condition which means that whole drone conversation bit is ALSO a complete illusion. In my memory he is not wearing the dome which also means it's an illusion. But maybe he is wearing the damaged version? Unlikely. If anyone sees the movie again please confirm or not. Much appreciated.
I feel like the Spider-sense wasn't handled well. It isn't working for some reason, and I don't think we ever get a reason it wasn't working, but then when he wants it to work at the end it does work, but why? Because he wanted it to work?
I feel like the Spider-sense wasn't handled well. It isn't working for some reason, and I don't think we ever get a reason it wasn't working, but then when he wants it to work at the end it does work, but why? Because he wanted it to work?
I always assumed it was due to stress and being overwhelmed by the loss of Stark and pressure to fill his shoes. It's the whole reason he didn't want to bring the suit to Europe.
Spoiler:
Regarding Mysterio, like Loki, there is always precedent in the comics to doubt their deaths. I certainly hope we haven't seen the last of Mysterio. It would be too easy to write him back in, alive, as part if the Sinister 6. Which could all currently be characters that have beef with Stark or the Avengers in general
Ahtman wrote: It's not a Spidey Sense it is a Peter Tingle!
All in all it was fun, Spiderman lends itself to great fights
I think Mysterio would be proud seeing all the debates as to whether he is alive or not.[/spoiler]
MY take on mysterio
Spoiler:
He is dead, mostly because IMO, there are two reasons, mostly out of story
1: They never mentioned they didnt find the body, I think they would be the first thing they would do
2: While sometimes they do(Like Loki) the MCU movies dont carry villains over, so my guess is he is gone
Now my take on the movie. I have never been a fan of "Teenage" Spiderman stories, I liked Collage and Adult SPiderman. This romance with MJ is why, I hate teenage romance.
The twist was expected but I didnt expect as to why. IT is interesting all of Spider Mans villains so far are screwed over by Tony(Kinda Like Tony Himself)
Ahtman wrote: It's not a Spidey Sense it is a Peter Tingle!
All in all it was fun, Spiderman lends itself to great fights
I think Mysterio would be proud seeing all the debates as to whether he is alive or not.[/spoiler]
MY take on mysterio
Spoiler:
He is dead, mostly because IMO, there are two reasons, mostly out of story
1: They never mentioned they didnt find the body, I think they would be the first thing they would do
2: While sometimes they do(Like Loki) the MCU movies dont carry villains over, so my guess is he is gone
Now my take on the movie. I have never been a fan of "Teenage" Spiderman stories, I liked Collage and Adult SPiderman. This romance with MJ is why, I hate teenage romance.
The twist was expected but I didnt expect as to why. IT is interesting all of Spider Mans villains so far are screwed over by Tony(Kinda Like Tony Himself)
Spoiler:
Mysterio Inc. run a bar, a bus line, and seem to be everywhere filling whatever role is needed. You think Beck's lackeys couldn't have pretended to be EMT's who got on the scene, collected the "body", and took him back to their base? Vulture and Scorpion and Tinker AND Shocker 2 all survived spiderman 1.
Nick Fury was of course Talos, who confirms Beck had even him fooled.
So in terms of clean up, quite possible things were a bit lax.
However, the majority of Beck’s tricks were heavily rehearsed. We see this when he’s planning the London battle. And they really weren’t expecting Spidey to drop on in. So whilst he’s proven capable of some stuff on the fly, I’m not 100% he could set all of that up without prior warning?
Nick Fury was of course Talos, who confirms Beck had even him fooled.
So in terms of clean up, quite possible things were a bit lax.
However, the majority of Beck’s tricks were heavily rehearsed. We see this when he’s planning the London battle. And they really weren’t expecting Spidey to drop on in. So whilst he’s proven capable of some stuff on the fly, I’m not 100% he could set all of that up without prior warning?
Spoiler:
Addressed in the movie.
He tells Mysterio Inc. to bring down the illusion of the mega elemental. They do. Then a little bit later they have a breif conversation "Okay... bringing the new illusion online. I can't wait to see how you're going to pull this off"
While spidey was stuck flipping over and under the bridge being lit on fire and dodging drone after drone after drone Mysterio was mapping out the whole plan while his team made adjustments. They even have a line where the costume lady asks if he still needs the cape (and he does!). Because he puts that suit back on when he later records himself talking into a camera "Spiderman is gunna kill me! His real name is Peter Parker!" Edit together the cut and release it a day or so later.
Sorry if I am being annoying with this to anyone. Mysterio is now my favorite MCU villian.
So while I am with the others in thinking he is 100% alive and everything "proving" he dies was for Peter's benefit (i.e. the glasses told him there were no illusions up, but since Beck never transferred control back, I don't believe that for a second), there is another possibility:
Beck really is dead, but Jake G will still be back to play him in a later film. His crew is still alive and can very well fabricate Beck coming back using some advanced drone trickery. While Beck called the shots and developed the tech, he was also the "face" more or less and since other's "wrote the story/dialogue", I'm sure they'd have no issues bringing Mysterio back without Beck (or whatever his real name was)
That could easily be a way for him to both be dead in traditional MCU fashion, but also come back
.... I enjoyed the Mysterio illusions because they were so heavily psychological and pointed towards what Spider-man wanted to believe or was feeling. Very cool.
The idea that all of Tony's enemies were made by Stark makes sense, since Spidey was also "made by Stark". Therefore, when Spidey faces off against Mysterio he is facing off against a version of himself in the grand Marvel tradition of the Hero having to defeat himself in order to be heroic.
I liked the small moment at the end where the group gets home, and everyone is getting greeted, and Flash is also being greeted by his "family". It added a great deal of depth to that small character.
Finally, the discussion of Power Rangers vs. Voltron was amusing to me as a Nerd.
Maybe I didn't need spoiler tags, but just in case.....
I enjoyed all the post-snap repercussions in this show.
Sorry if I am being annoying with this to anyone. Mysterio is now my favorite MCU villian.
Not annoying at all - he's my favorite current villain in the MCU, and has been an overall favorite for years!
While I want to believe that 'Beck' is alive still, and manipulating things behind the scenes (it'd be cool if he was the mastermind behind the MCU version of the Sinister Six instead of the currently non0existent Doc Ock!), I think we're going to be left with Mysterio Inc. has the driving force behind this villain moving forward.
Which is a shame, because Mysterio was a great villain and JG's portrayal was fantastic...
If they decided to play the long game, they could really drag out the deceptions. The next movie could have Mysterio Inc pulling the strings on a hologram "pupper" Mysterio, only to get defeated, but then the movie after that has Beck back for reals and he was pulling the strings anonymously the whole time.
The heroes could be like "OMG, how is Beck alive, he faked his death!" But them realize he did die and it's Beck's lackeys, which they defeat.
Next movie Mysterio comes back and the heroes of like "OMG, I thought we defeated all his lackeys!" but then it turns out to actually be Beck in the flesh
Beck is as much a concept as he is a physical being. Oh no! Now I sound like a Freeman on the Land whackjob!
But hopefully you get what I mean. Corpse or not a corpse, there’s really very little preventing Mysterio returning.
Indeed, I can even see SHIELD using exactly the same trick to clear Spidey’s name. Have Beck show up now and again, Elvis style.
As for EDITH? Parker didn’t necessarily de-authorise himself by authorising Beck? I think. Only seen it the once, and wasn’t closely following the dialogue. Hell, Tony could’ve built in failsafes to ensure Spidey could always access EDITH?
Still blown away by Peter choosing his new suit though. I feel it worked really well by showing his similarity to Stark, whilst also reminding us he is still just a kid.
It strikes me as closer to the Hulk end credits bit, with Stark talking to Gen. Ross. Hinting at something wider, but not so much the why?
I feel it also reflects nicely on the events of End Game. It’s a nudge and a reminder that Earth saved 50% of The Universe. That Earth is now open for business.
So, naturally, that’s where Fury has turned his eye. Diplomacy, spying, who knows?
Pretty great film. The teen romance stuff got a little obnoxious when it was laid on a little thick (Betty/Ned) or got petty (Brad), but the story was pretty engaging even knowing the twist and some of the choreography was spectacular. These movies being in many ways better sequels to Iron Man than the actual Iron Man sequels were is an inspired choice.
Lance845 wrote: I am going to write some stuff in spoilers and do not want it to appear on mouse over of the thread.
Spoiler:
EDITH is not in the glasses anymore. The moment Beck (not even his real name BTW. If you remember during his speech he points to his story writer and says something along the lines of "A story about a man named Quentin from another world...". We don't know WHO he is.) finished his speech he handed off the glasses and told them to upload EDITH into their system. When he was doing the test of the combined elementals in the room with the pillars he called on EDITH with a couple clicks of a keyboard and spoke to her WITHOUT the glasses to search for the missing projector. The glasses don't do anything any more. PLUS, It was established in the bar that you have to command her to transfer control and give vocal confirmation. Which he never did. The whole thing, including EDITH saying "Execute all commands?" was set up to get Peter to say "Execute". Which means he intended for Peter to get the glasses in the first place (which again do nothing) which means he intended to get himself put into a position where he "looses" and Peter takes them. When Peter asks EDITH if it was real, there is a slight delay, and then a response, as though someone else is speaking into a mike and having their voice modulated to EDITHs. "You'll see Peter. People want to believe. And these days... they will believe anything." He is EXACTLY the kind of prick to tell Peter his plan as he does it knowing Peter won't get it.
Again, No fething way he's dead. The Mysterio that ended up on the ground dieing was FINE when he pulled the gun on him. The worst thing that happened to him was getting his wrist grabbed. So why did he fall down and die? Because he shows a reality after a reality after a reality so fast that you start mixing up the details. THAT one got shot, so when this one PRETENDS to have been shot you don't remember that it was the illusion that got shot and not the one you are looking at now. It worked on Peter and it worked on the movie going audience. The other major clue is the dome helmet. When it's really him the dome is there. When it's the illusion it's not. (He fakes getting himself shot by Fury (no dome helmet) pretends to be Fury, then steps out of the illusion and is himself (dome helmet).) After he fills the bridge with drones and they illusion up and Peter uses his spider sense you never see the dome again. No Beck from that point forward is wholly the real Beck. At best it's him inside of a illusion suit like in the test room. When the drones fly away, it's because Mysterio Inc. sends them away to complete the illusion.
I hadn't noticed the fishbowl in those scenes, so I'm willing to concede that your hypothesis could be correct. I may need to watch the film again and pay more attention to that bit.
You've almost convinced me - once the monster illusion collapses the plan became about revenge on Spider-man and setting up a doctored report that THE JJJ would fall for (Mysterio again giving someone something they wanted to see)
We all saw the second spoiler. Therefore, is this a set-up to Captain Marvel 2 OR a set-up for the next Avenger's plot line?
Your thoughts?
I'm going to go ahead and say that fury is attempting to set up S.W.O.R.D. Which will probably tie in mostly with captain marvel. But maybe I'm just holding out hope for Abigail Brand to show up.
To be fair, your comment did make me do a double take. I was like "wait was she in Agents of Shield? How did I miss that?" I even immediately pictured Victoria Hand like "wait was she Brand? What was her name again?"
I thought it was awesome, the only thing I am a bit unhappy about is the consequence of the mid credit scene. But they did a great job with Mysterio and I love all the teenage drama stuff.
Da Boss wrote: I thought it was awesome, the only thing I am a bit unhappy about is the consequence of the mid credit scene. But they did a great job with Mysterio and I love all the teenage drama stuff.
Honestly I was happy with the mid-credit scene, since I really want to believe Marvel Studios wouldn't be dumb enough to put that big a cliffhanger in there if they hadn't already agreed some form of extension to the deal with Sony(recall the sharing deal was for two movies and three cameos/supporting appearances, and that's been done), which means more MCU Spidey is likely.
Da Boss wrote: I thought it was awesome, the only thing I am a bit unhappy about is the consequence of the mid credit scene. But they did a great job with Mysterio and I love all the teenage drama stuff.
Honestly I was happy with the mid-credit scene, since I really want to believe Marvel Studios wouldn't be dumb enough to put that big a cliffhanger in there if they hadn't already agreed some form of extension to the deal with Sony(recall the sharing deal was for two movies and three cameos/supporting appearances, and that's been done), which means more MCU Spidey is likely.
It actually ties in nicely with the Homecoming post credit scene:
Spoiler:
Scorpion grills Toomes about Spidey's identity and mentions he has some friends looking for payback and assumes Toomes would want to help. Now he knows Spidey's identity and can go after him, with the interesting wrinkle of Toomes potentially being on the team (likely the Six) having previously lied to protect Peter.
Saw the movie yesterday afternoon. Loved it! The action was great, the villain was one of the best in the MCU, and the post credit scenes were really good too.
Spoiler:
The best part of the movie, at least for me, was when J. Jonah Jameson showed up in the first post credit scene. I nearly jumped out of my seat cheering when I saw it was JK Simmons reprising his role!
I hope that the villain is Kraven. Now that Peter Parkers identity is known AND he has been framed as a murderer there is a reason why someone like Kraven would show up to hunt down Spiderman. I hope he gets beat in their initial confrontation. And that means he gets a little support from... The Scorpion. The 2 of them try to bring down Spiderman together and it's a big rough battle for his life.
The man who hires Kraven and ends up building the Scorpion suit is revealed to be Doc Oct. And the Sinister 6 is formed. Doc Oct, Vulture, Shocker, Mysterio, Kraven, Scorpion. Spiderman 4 is vs the sinister 6.
Lance845 wrote: This is my hope for the next Spiderman movie...
Spoiler:
I hope that the villain is Kraven. Now that Peter Parkers identity is known AND he has been framed as a murderer there is a reason why someone like Kraven would show up to hunt down Spiderman. I hope he gets beat in their initial confrontation. And that means he gets a little support from... The Scorpion. The 2 of them try to bring down Spiderman together and it's a big rough battle for his life.
The man who hires Kraven and ends up building the Scorpion suit is revealed to be Doc Oct. And the Sinister 6 is formed. Doc Oct, Vulture, Shocker, Mysterio, Kraven, Scorpion. Spiderman 4 is vs the sinister 6.
As much as I would enjoy that, it makes too much sense, so we can pretty much expect none of it to pan out that way.
Da Boss wrote: I thought it was awesome, the only thing I am a bit unhappy about is the consequence of the mid credit scene. But they did a great job with Mysterio and I love all the teenage drama stuff.
My suspicion is that, being presented onscreen like Infowars, JJJ's scoop is going to be treated by the population-at-large as conspiracy theory-ish and generally not believed; but it will be the hook that brings whoever the next villain is into the story.
Da Boss wrote: I thought it was awesome, the only thing I am a bit unhappy about is the consequence of the mid credit scene. But they did a great job with Mysterio and I love all the teenage drama stuff.
My suspicion is that, being presented onscreen like Infowars, JJJ's scoop is going to be treated by the population-at-large as conspiracy theory-ish and generally not believed; but it will be the hook that brings whoever the next villain is into the story.
Yeah, I got that vibe too, especially since the reveal was a class photo of Peter, rather than him actually in the spidey suit with his mask off (the shot did not shoe his upper body)
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'll tell you in about 4 hours, but I think y'all reading too much into it.
Sometimes a dead super villain is just a dead super villain.
When said supervillain has been mucking around with everyone's perception of reality all movie long, you don't count him dead until the MCU is.
EDIT: Okay, I know I'm late to the party, but here's my two cents.
Every single thing I don't like about this movie stems from the basic change of Spidey in high school instead of college... and not even a senior in high school at that. The petty teen angst and drama really detracts from the much higher stakes of the action sequences. The 'adults are useless' vibe doesn't help either (for all of Stark and SHIELD's resources they play a minimal role in the movie). Don't get me wrong, there's a GREAT action movie in there.
You just want to fast-forward past the kiddie stuff to get to it.
Although it might be interesting to see if Michelle occupies the position of Betty Brant (left behind after graduation), Gwen Stacy (dead in a failed rescue), Felicia Harding (Blackcat), or Mary-Jane Watson...
Lance845 wrote: I am 100% sure that Michelle "M.J." is going to be Mary Jane with Mary Jane being a stage name when she decides to become a model/actor.
Or she goes the investigative journalist route, and it becomes the byline name.
