Does anyone else out there find themselves having less patience the older they get with regard to "Meme Culture?"

I work as an administrator at a small US college and I can tell you first hand, memes are starting to become so pervasive that they're showing up in every day speech now. The younglings are terrible when it comes to the spread of new memes, often times overusing them to the point of exhaustion. The more time passes, the crankier I've become with regards to how much I can tolerate these memes. A fine example related to this forum is the current controversy with regard to the new Sangunius model. In less than four minutes this morning, I've seen half a dozen stupid joke memes about the model pass my desk.

It really is starting to feel like people cannot have a normal conversation anymore. They have to resort to a meme to get a point across, especially in debates. Heck, I've even caught myself doing it from time to time and I wasn't even really conscious that I was doing it.

Am I just getting old, or has this meme thing really solidified itself into the culture in a negative way?

Doesn't bother me. In practical terms, they're just a new form of idiom, and we use those relentlessly, most often without realising.

You're getting old.

Certain meme culture parts are blending into reality and some of them can be annoying. Most of that is just stemming from "Heh i don't take anything seriously." Which really puts a damper on personal relationships when someone doesn't take anything seriously and they live in their own world of isolationism. (had a few that were like this but that was a programming school so mileage might vary)

I like Memes, i love reading them, i like laughing at them, but with anything its good in moderation.

I agree completely. It has become very tiresome. There are forum groups I have been a member of for quite some time. I have started leaving a number of them. There used to be discussion, and good information. They have all devolved into endless memes. They aren't clever, they aren't funny. Just, tiresome.

What do you meme?



.... it is just a modification of communication. Communication is a living and breathing process that evolves. It is totally normal for this to happen.

That being said, as an oldster, I have a hard time keeping up.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You're getting old.

This.

Soon you'll be complaining on how there is nothing good on the TV and that its either "Modern rubbish" or "Seen it before". Then comes the rants about how life was better back then; then there's statements like "Before the Millennium". Then other changes start happening. You start to WANT new socks and slippers for Christmas (every christmas); you'll feel drafts everywhere.

The only cure is either a life crisis and buying a big flashy sports car; suddenly renouncing all your possessions and joining a new age cult or starting a new Warhammer Army.

Togusa wrote:The younglings are terrible

Avatar 720 wrote:You're getting old.

We have a winner, ladies and gents!

To be fair though, there is a lot more stupidity in memes now than there used to be. So I find myself less amused by them as well. Then again, I am also getting older.

It does seem as though the memes themselves have gotten less creative, and more abstract. I'm all for a good laugh, or a good image macro with cleaver wording on it.

But it just seems like everything is driven by memes on the internet these days. Nothing goads me harder than when I'm trying to have a discussion about something, and the only responses I get are meme pictures, instead of reasoned arguments.


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 Overread wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You're getting old.

This.

Soon you'll be complaining on how there is nothing good on the TV and that its either "Modern rubbish" or "Seen it before". Then comes the rants about how life was better back then; then there's statements like "Before the Millennium". Then other changes start happening. You start to WANT new socks and slippers for Christmas (every christmas); you'll feel drafts everywhere.

The only cure is either a life crisis and buying a big flashy sports car; suddenly renouncing all your possessions and joining a new age cult or starting a new Warhammer Army.

That new GSC codex is coming out soon isn't it? Hmmm.

I find the rising trend of "chan" behavior outside of the actual chan family of websites to be kind of annoying. Memes aren't fun when they're literally your only contribution to the community and every response boils down to retreading old ground. I'm glad most of the forums I actively use either don't suffer it or actively have a "no chan posts" rule.

If a picture is worth 1000 words, then a meme is worth... like 1005?

It's just like any other creative medium. Someone does something clever with effort and a bunch of far less talented people replicate it. We just live in an age where the internet gives everyone a global platform, so all of the sub par knock offs are constantly in view. The internet has essentially become one of those lovely beaches where someone is constantly trying to sell you a counterfeit Spiderman figure.

You aren't just getting old, you already have gotten old.
My condolences.

 Togusa wrote:
The younglings are terrible when it comes to the spread of new memes, often times overusing them to the point of exhaustion.

That has always been the case with memes. The only reason you don't remember it being so annoying when you were 13 years old is because you were the kid pestering his friends about how hilarious it was that Mr T ate your balls.

It has gotten out of hand at least for some people.

I'm good friends with some people I know from college - we've all gone on a little bit in our lives, I moved across the country, but we still have a group FB chat and keep up with each others lives. We're still friends in a meaningful way.

The other day one of the chat members invited in some guy they had become friends with who immediately started spamming just memes. It was annoying when I'm trying to see how everyone's doing and I have to scroll past a bunch of "hurr cheesburga so funny' meme junk pics.

I mean it's contextual, there's def. times when it's humorous but this sort of epitomized how memes can just be noise drowning out actual discussion.

 Togusa wrote:
Am I just getting old

Yes. Your parents found everything you enjoyed just as exasperating and juvenile.

 ScarletRose wrote:
It has gotten out of hand at least for some people.

I'm good friends with some people I know from college - we've all gone on a little bit in our lives, I moved across the country, but we still have a group FB chat and keep up with each others lives. We're still friends in a meaningful way.

The other day one of the chat members invited in some guy they had become friends with who immediately started spamming just memes. It was annoying when I'm trying to see how everyone's doing and I have to scroll past a bunch of "hurr cheesburga so funny' meme junk pics.

I mean it's contextual, there's def. times when it's humorous but this sort of epitomized how memes can just be noise drowning out actual discussion.

Point and case every thread about Alpharius turns into "I'm alpharius", I get its funny, But TTS (specifically to 40k) is the 40k equalivent of animemes. Its a joke. The whole thing is just misconstruction of lore to make a joke.

Some of it was true lore, most if not most of all the things they talk about aren't in the lore anymore or have been retconned completely.

It has ruined many good discussions especially when it comes to the dark angels, ultramarines, or the alpha legion.

Its horrible reading through the same repeated joke "Oh dark angels are traitors teehehehee." Before I just hit the ban button on most people who make that joke unironically.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:
It has gotten out of hand at least for some people.

I'm good friends with some people I know from college - we've all gone on a little bit in our lives, I moved across the country, but we still have a group FB chat and keep up with each others lives. We're still friends in a meaningful way.

The other day one of the chat members invited in some guy they had become friends with who immediately started spamming just memes. It was annoying when I'm trying to see how everyone's doing and I have to scroll past a bunch of "hurr cheesburga so funny' meme junk pics.

I mean it's contextual, there's def. times when it's humorous but this sort of epitomized how memes can just be noise drowning out actual discussion.

Point and case every thread about Alpharius turns into "I'm alpharius", I get its funny, But TTS (specifically to 40k) is the 40k equalivent of animemes. Its a joke. The whole thing is just misconstruction of lore to make a joke.

Some of it was true lore, most if not most of all the things they talk about aren't in the lore anymore or have been retconned completely.

It has ruined many good discussions especially when it comes to the dark angels, ultramarines, or the alpha legion.

Its horrible reading through the same repeated joke "Oh dark angels are traitors teehehehee." Before I just hit the ban button on most people who make that joke unironically.

Good points from everyone in the thread, but I'm not just talking about fun stuff. I'm seeing tons of memes pop up in political discourse, religion, higher education, etc.

It sometimes feels as though people boil very deep and difficult topics down to "insert meme here" views. The "chan post" as someone put it.

 Togusa wrote:
. A fine example related to this forum is the current controversy with regard to the new Sangunius model. In less than four minutes this morning, I've seen half a dozen stupid joke memes about the model pass my desk.

Well, 40k memes are a bit of an egregious example as most of them are gak. They're the same 4 or 5 gakky "jokes" repeated over and over again and they weren't even funny the first time.

It's wonderful

I'm also a decade + user on 4chan

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
. A fine example related to this forum is the current controversy with regard to the new Sangunius model. In less than four minutes this morning, I've seen half a dozen stupid joke memes about the model pass my desk.

Well, 40k memes are a bit of an egregious example as most of them are gak. They're the same 4 or 5 gakky "jokes" repeated over and over again and they weren't even funny the first time.

Yeah, I really grow tired of the leiutenant comments, and I'm glad that the plastic thunderhawk, sister of battle crap has ceased.


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 Stevefamine wrote:
It's wonderful

I'm also a decade + user on 4chan

Memes can be a fun thing for anyone to use. When it comes to interjecting them into daily life, into job interviews and so on, that's when I start to grow a bit concerned.

 Togusa wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
. A fine example related to this forum is the current controversy with regard to the new Sangunius model. In less than four minutes this morning, I've seen half a dozen stupid joke memes about the model pass my desk.

Well, 40k memes are a bit of an egregious example as most of them are gak. They're the same 4 or 5 gakky "jokes" repeated over and over again and they weren't even funny the first time.

Yeah, I really grow tired of the leiutenant comments, and I'm glad that the plastic thunderhawk, sister of battle crap has ceased.

Nah, now we're stuck with Abaddon having no arms (Look at me! I'm a fethwit who doesn't know how to use glue! I'm so fething funneh! ) and Dorn having a moustache. A cursory glance at r/warhammer40k will see so many people making poor attempts at humour. Oh look at me, I spilled a pot of paint- I'm a freaking moron and for some reason need to catalogue this event on the internet.

I just ignore those making note of who does as generally those who use those are not worth wasting time reading anyway

I vote we rename the thread "Grumpy old Gamers", plant a lawn and continue!

 Togusa wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:
It has gotten out of hand at least for some people.

I'm good friends with some people I know from college - we've all gone on a little bit in our lives, I moved across the country, but we still have a group FB chat and keep up with each others lives. We're still friends in a meaningful way.

The other day one of the chat members invited in some guy they had become friends with who immediately started spamming just memes. It was annoying when I'm trying to see how everyone's doing and I have to scroll past a bunch of "hurr cheesburga so funny' meme junk pics.

I mean it's contextual, there's def. times when it's humorous but this sort of epitomized how memes can just be noise drowning out actual discussion.

Point and case every thread about Alpharius turns into "I'm alpharius", I get its funny, But TTS (specifically to 40k) is the 40k equalivent of animemes. Its a joke. The whole thing is just misconstruction of lore to make a joke.

Some of it was true lore, most if not most of all the things they talk about aren't in the lore anymore or have been retconned completely.

It has ruined many good discussions especially when it comes to the dark angels, ultramarines, or the alpha legion.

Its horrible reading through the same repeated joke "Oh dark angels are traitors teehehehee." Before I just hit the ban button on most people who make that joke unironically.

Good points from everyone in the thread, but I'm not just talking about fun stuff. I'm seeing tons of memes pop up in political discourse, religion, higher education, etc.

It sometimes feels as though people boil very deep and difficult topics down to "insert meme here" views. The "chan post" as someone put it.

Memes have no place in discussions or serious topics, it comes off as disingenious and rude honestly. (I'm young too and i think there is a time place for everything) If i am talking about the Sacking of Constantinople or the fall of rome I'm not going to use memes to describe my point.

This is the same problem I have with most 40k memers is that they can't tell the difference between actual lore and TTS or memes. (Emperor Text to Speech being aggressively used as a reference point for some discussions in the past).

Its basically like taking the monty python and the life of brain for the bible. While a great source material and filled with humor, its not the real thing.

I don't see a problem with it. Just a different form of communication, based off of a concept that the users of the meme understand.

Sure, they can be inappropriate in certain situations, and can grow tiresome, but so can every idiom, phrase, simile or metaphor. The fact is, it's become a very popular format of communicating an idea, usually a joke, and into a format anyone with knowledge of the meme's meaning can appreciate, and that kind of format is understandably popular in an increasingly global society.

If it gets too much for you, move to europe. I believe there is a strong movement to ban memes there.

Or was that a meme?

The problem with memes as a form of communication is that they depend on the assumption of a shared cultural heritage.

For example, there are currently many memes using clips from Game of Thrones. These are meaningless to anyone who has't watched Game of Thrones. Plus, unlike an unfamiliar phrase in English or a foreign language, they can't be looked up. You have to have watched the programme to know the background which gives the particular character and situation its meaning which extends to the meme.

In this respect memes perform a similar function to jargon and slang, defining an "in group" and excluding an "out group". In other words, the point of memes is not to facilitate communication, it is to limit communication to the initiated.

Of course this depends on context. If I put a Space Marine meme into Dakkadakka, I have a reasonable belief that members of the forum are aware of the fluff background of Space Marines. This is the shared cultural experience which gives the meme meaning, If I go and put the same meme into a Daily Mail discussion thread about vaccines, it won't be any use.

Finally, here is a comic about language.

Memes honestly are just kinda......lame and they seeped into everything.
The problem with memes is they really kinda took over lexicon. I was debating with someone and they said "well leftist don't have good memes" and that was their argument....that's all.
And they get....tiresome. I have a FB friend who calls himself a memelord And he constantly shares the same jokes, as if repretion is funny

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Memes honestly are just kinda......lame and they seeped into everything.
The problem with memes is they really kinda took over lexicon. I was debating with someone and they said "well leftist don't have good memes" and that was their argument....that's all.
And they get....tiresome. I have a FB friend who calls himself a memelord And he constantly shares the same jokes, as if repretion is funny

What? Leftists don't have good memes? What kind of ridiculous opinion is that! We have the best memes! We seize all the memes of production!

The spamming of memes is a problem though. Memes are fun, but if they get overused they quickly lose their value.

I had someone tell me that clearly I didn't understand memes, and that i wasn't intelligent enough to comprehend his jokes. If a joke is bad its bad end of story.

It must be an older person thing.

I've had no patience with meme culture since it became a thing, though. Not just recently.

A joke explained is a joke enjoyed!

I'm pretty fond of memes all in all, although A.) they have become pervasive and B.) the Shaggy memes really aren't funny to me.

If I were to say that you are getting old, then I would have to join you, as I also find memes annoying. Especially the new ones. So let's just go with they are getting more and more idiotic, and have cemented themselves into our culture in a primarily negative way.

Yes they are annoying and the word it self is just as annoying.

Only if they pronounce it "me-me"

Memes are fine. Some are good, some are bad, some are overused, some people don't know when to stop.

So, like everything else.

When did the lame lazy-a$$ stoner with a talking dog become a meme-thing, anyway?

I was away from social media for 4-5 days and suddenly all my friends and acquaintances were sharing them - and memes werent funny to start with.

I've had no patience for memes for a good decade + now. It makes me feel a little less isolated everytime someone elses admits they're not all that great.

 chromedog wrote:
When did the lame lazy-a$$ stoner with a talking dog become a meme-thing, anyway?

I was away from social media for 4-5 days and suddenly all my friends and acquaintances were sharing them - and memes werent funny to start with.

It happened suddenly a few days ago. Shaggy memes were suddenly all over Reddit and other places. No idea where they came from. It was funny at first, but like with many memes it was way too overused and became stupid. Give it a few days more and it'll be dead. Reddit at least has already moved on for the most part.

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

No problem. Do you think this is true? like some idiot tomorrow creates another idiot website with a really idiotic name like twitter and eventually if you don't join that idiotic thing you are not aware of what is going on in the world in terms of technology

Perhaps each generation gets less and less funny and humorously talented?

Once upon a time you had ancient great philosophers dissing one another with wonderfully nuanced comments.

After a while there was Monty Python with their insane but well thought out style of comedy.

Then you had comedians who told the utterly ludicrous stories of their life like Ross Noble and Billy Connoly.

Now you have distorted pictures with emojis plastered on them or blaring earrape versions of music.

Just imagine what insane depths we will descend to. This is the Dark Age of Techno- I mean Humour.

cody.d. wrote:
Perhaps each generation gets less and less funny and humorously talented?

Once upon a time you had ancient great philosophers dissing one another with wonderfully nuanced comments.

After a while there was Monty Python with their insane but well thought out style of comedy.

Then you had comedians who told the utterly ludicrous stories of their life like Ross Noble and Billy Connoly.

Now you have distorted pictures with emojis plastered on them or blaring earrape versions of music.

Just imagine what insane depths we will descend to. This is the Dark Age of Techno- I mean Humor.

Its a fact in my opinion that each generation is getting less and less talented in almost all artistic/creative subjects movies/music/art/comedy.

Its a fact in my opinion

That's a contradiction silly, but there is some merit in what you say. Though with many of exceptions; gaming for instance is in many ways an artform that can create some truly breathtaking imagery. Perhaps it's more of a case of "The need for content" that produces a large amount of lackluster humor/art in all it's forms that can make anything feel stale and unfunny. Take Hero Movies as an example? Some are gorgeous, some feel produced and little else.

cody.d. wrote:

Its a fact in my opinion

That's a contradiction silly, but there is some merit in what you say. Though with many of exceptions; gaming for instance is in many ways an artform that can create some truly breathtaking imagery. Perhaps it's more of a case of "The need for content" that produces a large amount of lackluster humor/art in all it's forms that can make anything feel stale and unfunny. Take Hero Movies as an example? Some are gorgeous, some feel produced and little else.

what contradiction?. Yeah you're right but i think definitely in the case of music/comedy/movies i think its true.

Culture has gotten farther and farther away from my tastes ever since they were cemented.

You cant really have a in-depth conversation addressing the issues with out discussing politics. ( which is not allowed (

Am i incorrect?

 Stormatious wrote:
You cant really have a in-depth conversation addressing the issues with out discussing politics. ( which is not allowed (

Am i incorrect?

Are you addressing me? I only meant in terms of entertainment and literature, not politics. (Although I agree there's plenty to talk about in politics...on some other board somewhere.)

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
You cant really have a in-depth conversation addressing the issues with out discussing politics. ( which is not allowed (

Am i incorrect?

Are you addressing me? I only meant in terms of entertainment and literature, not politics. (Although I agree there's plenty to talk about in politics...on some other board somewhere.)

No im saying its all related in such a way where the core issue can not be addressed with ouit going there, yeah i think mi addressing you.

The more people you have, the wider range of preferences and capabilities, and thus the narrower the avenue to communicate things to as large a subsection of the population as possible and have it be appreciated and understood. It's a question of lowest common denominators. Though good memes have the capacity to carry layered messaging that will have broad appeal as well as insight.

@OP:
I agree. Memes are a pain in the butt. Those brats using them have to grow up.

 Ginjitzu wrote:


Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

See? This isn't creative, it isn't funny. It just feels like you've randomly dumped it on the conversation like, 'Look guys, I saw something funny somewhere else, you should laugh now!' - When laughing at random things is so utterly off topic for the post. Not to mention the use of something like that in a thread where the majority of the posters have specifically said they find it annoying is pretty poor form.

It's the animated gifs that annoy me. I thought that fad had passed around 2001, but no, they're back and just as lousy.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The problem with memes as a form of communication is that they depend on the assumption of a shared cultural heritage.

For example, there are currently many memes using clips from Game of Thrones. These are meaningless to anyone who has't watched Game of Thrones. Plus, unlike an unfamiliar phrase in English or a foreign language, they can't be looked up. You have to have watched the programme to know the background which gives the particular character and situation its meaning which extends to the meme.

In this respect memes perform a similar function to jargon and slang, defining an "in group" and excluding an "out group". In other words, the point of memes is not to facilitate communication, it is to limit communication to the initiated.

Of course this depends on context. If I put a Space Marine meme into Dakkadakka, I have a reasonable belief that members of the forum are aware of the fluff background of Space Marines. This is the shared cultural experience which gives the meme meaning, If I go and put the same meme into a Daily Mail discussion thread about vaccines, it won't be any use.

Finally, here is a comic about language.

This is what it boils down to for me - often, it's an "in-joke" that if you are not au fait with that particular bit of culture, then the meaning entirely escapes one. I often see memes referring to popular movies but as I seldom watch movies anymore, more often than not, the entire point of the meme whooshes over my head. If you are trying to convey a point to a group of individuals, it might be better to explain in actual terms rather than posting a picture that risks half your intended audience missing out on the meaning. Memes should be appropriate to context and to audience and quite often, they aren't.

XuQishi wrote:
It's the animated gifs that annoy me. I thought that fad had passed around 2001, but no, they're back and just as lousy.

I SO agree with you on that front. I got into a discussion on TFW2005 (Discussion is a LOOSE term, here) with someone about not liking a fan favorite fiction, and broke down how it was bad. The responses? A John Cena gif to show shock, and some weird gif of someone in a board meeting jumping out the window in response to my reasoning. If a poster on a forum has about a 25% gif post rate, I usually just put them on ignore. I hate hitting ignore because even my worst enemies online may have something valuable to say, but if I can't get through someone's gak posting, then it doesn't really matter WHAT positive contribution they have.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
I've had no patience for memes for a good decade + now. It makes me feel a little less isolated everytime someone elses admits they're not all that great.

This is basically how I feel, I've barely broke 30, and I still roll my eyes every time I see someone bringing meme culture out into the real world.


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AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:


Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

See? This isn't creative, it isn't funny. It just feels like you've randomly dumped it on the conversation like, 'Look guys, I saw something funny somewhere else, you should laugh now!' - When laughing at random things is so utterly off topic for the post. Not to mention the use of something like that in a thread where the majority of the posters have specifically said they find it annoying is pretty poor form.

To add to that, what is the purpose of that meme? It's some little kid saying "The future is now old man." It's meaningless to me. I've no clue what the context is, what the show is or who the actor is. I understand you might be trying to make a point here, but I just don't get it. I see stuff like this, roll my eyes and move along. It cuts off any chance of two people having a real dialogue.


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 Stormatious wrote:
You cant really have a in-depth conversation addressing the issues with out discussing politics. ( which is not allowed (

Am i incorrect?

Don't even get me started on that my friend.


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 Iron_Captain wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
When did the lame lazy-a$$ stoner with a talking dog become a meme-thing, anyway?

I was away from social media for 4-5 days and suddenly all my friends and acquaintances were sharing them - and memes werent funny to start with.

It happened suddenly a few days ago. Shaggy memes were suddenly all over Reddit and other places. No idea where they came from. It was funny at first, but like with many memes it was way too overused and became stupid. Give it a few days more and it'll be dead. Reddit at least has already moved on for the most part.

I still don't even know what these memes are, I've not even bothered to go and look.


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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Culture has gotten farther and farther away from my tastes ever since they were cemented.

it does seem like our shared culture in the US is getting more and more abstract and generic, while saying nothing about us as a people, outside of our love for fame and material possessions. The other day, a student and a professor were in my office (I'm a weird hybrid IT person) and we were all having a discussion. The professor is in his 60s and he made a comment in regards to A Prairie Home Companion. I immediately got it (my dad loves that program, I grew up with it). The student on the other hand, she asked what it was, and when the professor explained it to her, she just shrugged and said "I didn't even know radio was still used."

Seriously, kids don't know radio is still a thing?

I am very fond of the Dewey meme and i think it is particularly well used here, to be honest.

 Togusa wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

See? This isn't creative, it isn't funny. It just feels like you've randomly dumped it on the conversation like, 'Look guys, I saw something funny somewhere else, you should laugh now!' - When laughing at random things is so utterly off topic for the post. Not to mention the use of something like that in a thread where the majority of the posters have specifically said they find it annoying is pretty poor form.

To add to that, what is the purpose of that meme? It's some little kid saying "The future is now old man." It's meaningless to me. I've no clue what the context is, what the show is or who the actor is. I understand you might be trying to make a point here, but I just don't get it. I see stuff like this, roll my eyes and move along. It cuts off any chance of two people having a real dialogue.

How is this any different to any idiom or metaphor or reference, other than the thing you need context for is an image and not a phrase?

I have to agree with Yodhrin with approach that some are good and some are meh. It's partly dependent on your taste as well as being within the context that its based on. They're certainly useful in my job as a tutor, as I use a lot of the memes online as a springboard to base some of my word questions and have it as a way to contextualize their work material in a less boring manner.

nfe wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

See? This isn't creative, it isn't funny. It just feels like you've randomly dumped it on the conversation like, 'Look guys, I saw something funny somewhere else, you should laugh now!' - When laughing at random things is so utterly off topic for the post. Not to mention the use of something like that in a thread where the majority of the posters have specifically said they find it annoying is pretty poor form.

To add to that, what is the purpose of that meme? It's some little kid saying "The future is now old man." It's meaningless to me. I've no clue what the context is, what the show is or who the actor is. I understand you might be trying to make a point here, but I just don't get it. I see stuff like this, roll my eyes and move along. It cuts off any chance of two people having a real dialogue.

How is this any different to any idiom or metaphor or reference, other than the thing you need context for is an image and not a phrase?

The difference to me is that an idiom or metaphor is used to further a point of discussion. If two people know what it means, they can use it as a bridge to continue their conversation. Basically, they serve as bridges between people to explain ideals quickly and without error.

Memes are often throwaway comments, that derail conversation. Rarely do they ever add to a discussion, and more commonly they tend to shut down the sharing of ideals. They're lazy, and people often resort to them when they cannot produce an original argument or opinion for debate. They're also often used as a way of interjecting ones self into a conversation, sometimes in order to start trouble or to seem edgy or smart.


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 Ouze wrote:
I am very fond of the Dewey meme and i think it is particularly well used here, to be honest.

I still don't know what it is, or what it means. So it functional accomplishes nothing for me in this discussion.

 Togusa wrote:

nfe wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

See? This isn't creative, it isn't funny. It just feels like you've randomly dumped it on the conversation like, 'Look guys, I saw something funny somewhere else, you should laugh now!' - When laughing at random things is so utterly off topic for the post. Not to mention the use of something like that in a thread where the majority of the posters have specifically said they find it annoying is pretty poor form.

To add to that, what is the purpose of that meme? It's some little kid saying "The future is now old man." It's meaningless to me. I've no clue what the context is, what the show is or who the actor is. I understand you might be trying to make a point here, but I just don't get it. I see stuff like this, roll my eyes and move along. It cuts off any chance of two people having a real dialogue.

How is this any different to any idiom or metaphor or reference, other than the thing you need context for is an image and not a phrase?

The difference to me is that an idiom or metaphor is used to further a point of discussion. If two people know what it means, they can use it as a bridge to continue their conversation. Basically, they serve as bridges between people to explain ideals quickly and without error.

Memes are often throwaway comments, that derail conversation. Rarely do they ever add to a discussion, and more commonly they tend to shut down the sharing of ideals. They're lazy, and people often resort to them when they cannot produce an original argument or opinion for debate. They're also often used as a way of interjecting ones self into a conversation, sometimes in order to start trouble or to seem edgy or smart.

Then I'd suggest your problem is with how people communicate online, not with the media they use to communicate, because that's all extremely common in text on the internet, not just with memes.

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 Ouze wrote:
I am very fond of the Dewey meme and i think it is particularly well used here, to be honest.

I still don't know what it is, or what it means. So it functional accomplishes nothing for me in this discussion.

I'm not sure if you're wilfully misunderstanding it to make your point. It says 'you don't like it because you're old and out of touch'. I don't know who it is or what it's from.

I found the older i get, I still don't care enough to let things like this get to me.

Being 41, by far not the oldest here, I have seen a fair amount of change in society. This is just something that has happened, like potholes.

 Togusa wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I am very fond of the Dewey meme and i think it is particularly well used here, to be honest.

I still don't know what it is, or what it means. So it functional accomplishes nothing for me in this discussion.

Yes, that's exactly why it was the appropriate meme for the moment.

There is a site you can go to to learn more if you are interested, unless this is just essentially rant about today's kids with their iphones and avocado toast, in which case; vent away, my friend.

 Ouze wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I am very fond of the Dewey meme and i think it is particularly well used here, to be honest.

I still don't know what it is, or what it means. So it functional accomplishes nothing for me in this discussion.

Yes, that's exactly why it was the appropriate meme for the moment.

Meaningless to me. So I'll continue to ignore it then.


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 ProtoClone wrote:
I found the older i get, I still don't care enough to let things like this get to me.

Being 41, by far not the oldest here, I have seen a fair amount of change in society. This is just something that has happened, like potholes.

I'm only 30, but it bothers the ever living heck out of me.

It is an old meme for old people!

This thread is really reminding me of that millennials thread we had a while ago. I think it is funny.

 Togusa wrote:

I'm only 30, but it bothers the ever living heck out of me.

"only" 30

When I hit 30 I just tended to not give a gak any more and every year since I’ve just become less and less bothered by things, especially things beyond my control. If I don’t understand a meme, eh, feth it, there’s a lot in this world I don’t understand. Just concern yourself with what affects you and sod the rest.

cody.d. wrote:
Perhaps each generation gets less and less funny and humorously talented?

Once upon a time you had ancient great philosophers dissing one another with wonderfully nuanced comments.

After a while there was Monty Python with their insane but well thought out style of comedy.

Then you had comedians who told the utterly ludicrous stories of their life like Ross Noble and Billy Connoly.

Now you have distorted pictures with emojis plastered on them or blaring earrape versions of music.

Just imagine what insane depths we will descend to. This is the Dark Age of Techno- I mean Humour.

Absolutely not. The "great philosophers" of times past don't know jack gak by comparison to modern ones and would be very poorly equipped to deal with the contemporary world. And that isn't their fault, it's just that so many things have happened since then and our rate of information turnover is vastly greater. It's also very funny to me that your time scale jumps from people who lived thousands of years before most global religions were invented, to the 1970's. That's quite the gradual decline there.


Besides, if each generation is worse at humour than the last, how the hell would you be able to tell what the actual good comedy was? You'd be living among the unfunniest last few generations by definition, so what good would your judgment be?

I'm a little puzzled by some of the comments here (about memes being too common, particularly).

If I'm not on a gaming related website... I don't see any. Period. They don't come up in real life, in the workplace or people I meet. Maybe y'all are spending too much time plugged in?

@cody.d - definitely isn't a generational slide. If you on want proof of that, go read Martin Luther and see him rant (at length) about the pope being made from farts and excrement.

A great many 'great philosophers' were howling bigots, crazy people or depraved maniacs outside their remembered writings.

Voss wrote:
I'm a little puzzled by some of the comments here (about memes being too common, particularly).

If I'm not on a gaming related website... I don't see any. Period. They don't come up in real life, in the workplace or people I meet. Maybe y'all are spending too much time plugged in?

I find that memes tend to be a community thing in general. I rarely see hyper-context dependent memes outside of a place where everyone kind of assumes everyone else understands it. There's like a bajillion Fate memes, but other than "People die when they are killed" I don't think I've ever seen them referenced outside of fan sites or the FGO reddit. I have seen lots of 40k memes around the internet, but some of those seem to have broken through the mold and gained some broader cultural recognition.

Some places like Imgur are almost nothing but memes, but other than that yeah. I tend not to find memes randomly inserted in places they don't belong. Most people seem to have enough common sense to know when they're somewhere it will mean anything to anyone else.

MeMe culture is everything we made it to be. We all signed up in droves to create 500 variants of the some Heresy meme, upvoted and celebrated every use of the Commisar with the coffee cup meme, and reduced it all to a formula. Then someone else used the formula and we got upset. Those were our Fake Internet Points!

 Stormatious wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Perhaps each generation gets less and less funny and humorously talented?

Once upon a time you had ancient great philosophers dissing one another with wonderfully nuanced comments.

After a while there was Monty Python with their insane but well thought out style of comedy.

Then you had comedians who told the utterly ludicrous stories of their life like Ross Noble and Billy Connoly.

Now you have distorted pictures with emojis plastered on them or blaring earrape versions of music.

Just imagine what insane depths we will descend to. This is the Dark Age of Techno- I mean Humor.

Its a fact in my opinion that each generation is getting less and less talented in almost all artistic/creative subjects movies/music/art/comedy.

The comedic giants contemporary with 'the great philosophers' were people like Aristophanes. People that wrote plays full of dick and fart jokes, pun names, and humour via funny accents.

You'd be hard pushed to argue that the scuptors of Old Kingdom Egypt were objectively better than the realism adopted by the Greeks they inspired, let alone those of the Renaissance. Or that the people who painted the walls of Pompeii trumped Michelangelo.

The one-set-theater-put-on-film efforts of early cinema were objectively better than Hitchcock?

I'm picking extreme examples, but it's a very silly assertion, albeit a very common one - I'd suggest one usually made by people that simply don't have the enthusiasm to seek out art that they like.

Memes seem to be just a part of internet culture, and that's totally fine.

Internet culture is just part of "culture" these days, so some spillover is unavoidable and natural. Also fine.

If memes are derailing a conversation, then those individuals didn't really want to have the conversation anyways. Which is also fine.

The only real problem I can see is when judgement form either side happens. "Stupid kids and their memes." or "Adults are sooooo uncool with their lack of meme knowledge." Which is basically a pattern that has existed forever, as far as I can tell.

As long as parties can bridge a "culture gap" when it's time to do it, we're good.

 Togusa wrote:
It does seem as though the memes themselves have gotten less creative, and more abstract. I'm all for a good laugh, or a good image macro with cleaver wording on it.

But it just seems like everything is driven by memes on the internet these days. Nothing goads me harder than when I'm trying to have a discussion about something, and the only responses I get are meme pictures, instead of reasoned arguments.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but whenever someone posts an "image macro", those words are usually just "I'm an idiot!" 333 times. If there was a way to filter out Facebook posts that are images unaccompanied by text, it would be a better place. Or even worse, GIFs; Most of them add no useful information by being animated - they're just annoying.


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 chromedog wrote:
It must be an older person thing.

I've had no patience with meme culture since it became a thing, though. Not just recently.

If they annoy you, think how irritating they must be for Richard Dawkins - not just the barrage of unfunny jokes, but the knowledge that a load of internet knuckle-scrapers have hijacked the meaning of his word.

To be honest, I tend to assume that someone posting a meme image (or an in-joke) isn't interested in a discussion, so I just ignore them and scroll past. not worth getting angry over.

Is there a paradox here? I'm 30, and remember the show malcolm in the middle, so I understood that reference, despite me technically being the old man, whereas the younger guys clearly don't know the show and thus don't get the reference.


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There are some pretty funny warhammer memes on Instagram. I think that's the point. People make them for the groups that they are part of. Sometimes they spread and other cultures use the same but with phrases relevant to them. For example, the 'is this the' anime guy with the butterfly, I've seen it used with everything from politics (both sides of the spec) to warhammer

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Is there a paradox here? I'm 30, and remember the show malcolm in the middle, so I understood that reference, despite me technically being the old man, whereas the younger guys clearly don't know the show and thus don't get the reference.


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There are some pretty funny warhammer memes on Instagram. I think that's the point. People make them for the groups that they are part of. Sometimes they spread and other cultures use the same but with phrases relevant to them. For example, the 'is this the' anime guy with the butterfly, I've seen it used with everything from politics (both sides of the spec) to warhammer

I didn't watch much television when I was growing up. When I did, it was mostly PBS.

a lot of them are rubbish, some are annoying, the occasional gem is funny or at least to the point

i'm getting old

at least they're not people complaining about sisters players complaining about being ignored (i'm so glad that's on a downswing now the sisters are getting plastic toys)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
a lot of them are rubbish, some are annoying, the occasional gem is funny or at least to the point

i'm getting old

at least they're not people complaining about sisters players complaining about being ignored (i'm so glad that's on a downswing now the sisters are getting plastic toys)

Agreed! I'm happy for them too!

I'm not some fuddy-duddy. Some memes can be fun, and are good for a chuckle or two. But most seem to just be vapid.

Listen, the problem is this is nothing new,, its called sharing some thing funny/interesting/what ever which has been around for a few thousand years since humans came in to existence. The internet and mass sharing of thoughts has led to dumbing down of people, and instead of saying , "oh i have herd that before, that is funny because ( insert reason ) and how or why etc. They instead say, "oh that's a meme", or "that's a old meme" or some thing related to the word meme and thus destroying the natural way of communicating in the form of sharing some thing intersting or funny etc.

That's because when you create a new technology which lets everyone easily do something which previously required some skill, training and equipment, everyone starts to do it, and most of it inevitably is rubbish.

 Togusa wrote:


I still don't know what it is, or what it means. So it functional accomplishes nothing for me in this discussion.

Your profile says you're 32. I refuse to believe someone based in the USA and only 2 years younger than myself is culturally unaware of Malcolm in the Middle.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Togusa wrote:


I still don't know what it is, or what it means. So it functional accomplishes nothing for me in this discussion.

Your profile says you're 32. I refuse to believe someone based in the USA and only 2 years younger than myself is culturally unaware of Malcolm in the Middle.

I'm aware of it but that doesn't mean I ever watched it

 LordofHats wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Togusa wrote:


I still don't know what it is, or what it means. So it functional accomplishes nothing for me in this discussion.

Your profile says you're 32. I refuse to believe someone based in the USA and only 2 years younger than myself is culturally unaware of Malcolm in the Middle.

I'm aware of it but that doesn't mean I ever watched it

Which I never said. There are plenty of shows I'm culturally aware of despite having never watched.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Togusa wrote:


I still don't know what it is, or what it means. So it functional accomplishes nothing for me in this discussion.

Your profile says you're 32. I refuse to believe someone based in the USA and only 2 years younger than myself is culturally unaware of Malcolm in the Middle.

I'm aware of it but that doesn't mean I ever watched it

Which I never said. There are plenty of shows I'm culturally aware of despite having never watched.

I live in the UK. There are certain soaps which are culturally endemic that vast swathes of the population watch (like Coronation Street and Eastenders). I am aware of them, but have barely watched an episode total, and that through it being on in the background in various places. I would not recognise a single actor or actress from either*, yet they are some of the most watched programs in the country, and have been for decades.

Just being culturally aware of something doesn't mean you can recognise it from a gif Of course, you don't need to recognise it to understand the meaning of most gifs- I've never watched Malcolm in the Middle (although I've heard about it), had no idea that was the basis for the gif, but still got the intent.

*Scratch that- I am pretty sure the dude from Red Dwarf is in one of them, not sure which though. So that's one

I am substantially more culturally away of Cardi B that I would prefer despite never listening to one of her songs.

The perils of working with the younglings I guess.

*shakes fist in the sky, yells at clouds*

Basically, memes are the new printing press, the new telephone, the new email - a new way of communicating ideas (sure, I doubt they'll have the same impact as any of the above - although they well could).

Some people overuse and badly use memes, leading to rather clunky and forced expression, but a good meme, when understood by the audience (much like any word, or leitmotif) expresses something that it recognisable and understood.

The Imperial March can probably be equated to a meme - it means evil, it means the Empire, it means Vader... only if you're aware of how it fits into Star Wars. The Rains of Castamere, likewise memed, but only makes sense if you know the context of the song. There's nothing inherently wrong with a meaning being tied to something, and that something being used to communicate - after all, isn't that how language works? It's just oversaturation and poor expression that tend to give memes a bad image.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Basically, memes are the new printing press, the new telephone, the new email - a new way of communicating ideas (sure, I doubt they'll have the same impact as any of the above - although they well could).

Some people overuse and badly use memes, leading to rather clunky and forced expression, but a good meme, when understood by the audience (much like any word, or leitmotif) expresses something that it recognisable and understood.

The Imperial March can probably be equated to a meme - it means evil, it means the Empire, it means Vader... only if you're aware of how it fits into Star Wars. The Rains of Castamere, likewise memed, but only makes sense if you know the context of the song. There's nothing inherently wrong with a meaning being tied to something, and that something being used to communicate - after all, isn't that how language works? It's just oversaturation and poor expression that tend to give memes a bad image.

I think those last two examples are interesting though, because whilst you need to watch/read the media to get the full meaning, they are well crafted enough to give much of the sense of what they are trying to convey anyway. They are very good musical pieces even for the "uninitiated"

The best memes are like this too- they convey much of their meaning without needing viewers to know the context of the image, although it obviously enhances it.

Darmok on the ocean, Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, Darmok and Jalad on the ocean.

Temba, his arms wide.

Shaka, when the walls fell.

Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel.



- Memes, September 30th, 1991. (Thanks to a friend for pointing this out)

 Compel wrote:
Darmok on the ocean, Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, Darmok and Jalad on the ocean.

Temba, his arms wide.

Shaka, when the walls fell.

Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel.



- Memes, September 30th, 1991. (Thanks to a friend for pointing this out)

Huh... You know I never thought of that, and I'm not a guy who ever claimed Star Trek didn't manage to be forward looking in unexpected ways XD

 Togusa wrote:
The younglings ...

Are you memeing me?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Basically, memes are the new printing press, the new telephone, the new email - a new way of communicating ideas (sure, I doubt they'll have the same impact as any of the above - although they well could).

Pictorial memes much, much older than any of those examples. Thousands of years older.

Ideological art, like cave paintings, cylinder seals, sculpture, and so on, only work if the audience recognises pictorial representations of culturally-relevant and familiar images. Trajan's column only works in communicating message if you know what Roman pictorial codes for 'Roman army' and 'Dacian' are. The Parthenon frieze only communicates properly if you know about the Panathenaia is and the activities that comprise it. Old Assyrian reliefs only make sense if you know a bull=Aššur, horned helmets mean deities, and that weird chevron pattern means 'cult fabric'.

As for textual ones, well that's just any reference to another source familiar to writer and audience - so they're pretty much as old as text is. Jonah and the Whale is full of them - its why lot sof people read the entire narrative as satire. The Satyricon is another.

Dewey on the basketball court, admonishing his father.

Dogs when his home on fire, stating this is fine.

Man tapping the side of his head with a knowing smirk.

Malcolm Reynolds, his hands moving. Malcolm Reynolds his hands stopped. Malcolm Reynolds, looking confused.

The biggest shock is how fast meme culture changes. Memes now move at light speed.

NY Times article on memes, from 2016.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/arts/this-is-fine-meme-dog-fire.html

It makes a couple of interesting and valid points.

nfe wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Basically, memes are the new printing press, the new telephone, the new email - a new way of communicating ideas (sure, I doubt they'll have the same impact as any of the above - although they well could).

Pictorial memes much, much older than any of those examples. Thousands of years older.

Ideological art, like cave paintings, cylinder seals, sculpture, and so on, only work if the audience recognises pictorial representations of culturally-relevant and familiar images. Trajan's column only works in communicating message if you know what Roman pictorial codes for 'Roman army' and 'Dacian' are. The Parthenon frieze only communicates properly if you know about the Panathenaia is and the activities that comprise it. Old Assyrian reliefs only make sense if you know a bull=Aššur, horned helmets mean deities, and that weird chevron pattern means 'cult fabric'.

As for textual ones, well that's just any reference to another source familiar to writer and audience - so they're pretty much as old as text is. Jonah and the Whale is full of them - its why lot sof people read the entire narrative as satire. The Satyricon is another.

Oh, absolutely. I probably should have worded my point differently - not "new", but "similar".

 Compel wrote:
Darmok on the ocean, Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, Darmok and Jalad on the ocean.

Temba, his arms wide.

Shaka, when the walls fell.

Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel.



- Memes, September 30th, 1991. (Thanks to a friend for pointing this out)

Off-topic, but I have to get it off my chest. I never liked that Star Trek episode. It did not make sense. Certainly, when faced with people who evidently do not understand your metaphors you would switch to speaking without metaphors? Certainly the Tamarians are capable of speaking without using metaphors, otherwise they would never have been able to create metaphors or even learn to speak in the first place. They will need to speak without metaphors when they teach their children to speak for example. This means that Dathon could have spoken without using metaphors if he had wanted to. But then why does Dathon so radically refuse to speak without metaphors to Picard? It does not make sense. Evidently the Tamarians wish to be understood, yet they deliberately speak in a way that makes themselves unintelligible to foreigners?

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Off-topic, but I have to get it off my chest. I never liked that Star Trek episode. It did not make sense. Certainly, when faced with people who evidently do not understand your metaphors you would switch to speaking without metaphors? Certainly the Tamarians are capable of speaking without using metaphors, otherwise they would never have been able to create metaphors or even learn to speak in the first place. They will need to speak without metaphors when they teach their children to speak for example. This means that Dathon could have spoken without using metaphors if he had wanted to. But then why does Dathon so radically refuse to speak without metaphors to Picard? It does not make sense. Evidently the Tamarians wish to be understood, yet they deliberately speak in a way that makes themselves unintelligible to foreigners?

To answer:

The "Universal Translator" is of course an SF excuse which enables plot development to proceed within the 45 minutes an episode lasts. It's what I mean about accepting some degree of unrealism for the sake of drama. (See other thread.)

You know those SyFy movies that are essentially lower budget knock offs of existing movies? Transmorphers, for existence? You know, the ones where it ends with a nuke ending the thread almost invariably?


The Darnok episode is essentially one of those to Enemy Mine.

Enemy Mine is essentially an elaborated remake of Hell in the Pacific.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Enemy Mine is essentially an elaborated remake of Hell in the Pacific.

True, but if you take any work and start a chain of derivative works from it, the quality will eventually break down sooner rather than later.



I also hate how things get a cult following that they suddenly are completely beyond reproach, no matter HOW valid your criticisms could be.

 Just Tony wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Enemy Mine is essentially an elaborated remake of Hell in the Pacific.

True, but if you take any work and start a chain of derivative works from it, the quality will eventually break down sooner rather than later.



I also hate how things get a cult following that they suddenly are completely beyond reproach, no matter HOW valid your criticisms could be.

Ummmm..... then theoretically every work now is the "worst" version of most stories as Aristotle had the basic plots and conflicts all listed out a very, very, very long time ago.

 Easy E wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Enemy Mine is essentially an elaborated remake of Hell in the Pacific.

True, but if you take any work and start a chain of derivative works from it, the quality will eventually break down sooner rather than later.



I also hate how things get a cult following that they suddenly are completely beyond reproach, no matter HOW valid your criticisms could be.

Ummmm..... then theoretically every work now is the "worst" version of most stories as Aristotle had the basic plots and conflicts all listed out a very, very, very long time ago.

Good point, I missed the Aristotle stories that involved shape shifting alien robots. Who knew everything came down to one Greek guy? Oh, it didn't? Yeah, this may be the mother of false equivalencies.

 ProtoClone wrote:
I found the older i get, I still don't care enough to let things like this get to me.

Being 41, by far not the oldest here, I have seen a fair amount of change in society. This is just something that has happened, like potholes.

Same here, I'm happy to be a bit behind the curve of culture a bit. New stuff goes over my head--but it if it had any actual value or humour, it'll still be round when I get round to noticing it. The only value in keeping up with the cutting-edge seems to be so you can feel like part of an in-crowd and smirk at those who don't understand the private language.

 Just Tony wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Enemy Mine is essentially an elaborated remake of Hell in the Pacific.

True, but if you take any work and start a chain of derivative works from it, the quality will eventually break down sooner rather than later.



I also hate how things get a cult following that they suddenly are completely beyond reproach, no matter HOW valid your criticisms could be.

Ummmm..... then theoretically every work now is the "worst" version of most stories as Aristotle had the basic plots and conflicts all listed out a very, very, very long time ago.

Good point, I missed the Aristotle stories that involved shape shifting alien robots. Who knew everything came down to one Greek guy? Oh, it didn't? Yeah, this may be the mother of false equivalencies.

Basic plots and conflicts..... you know.... man vs man, man vs nature, man vs self, etc.... even stories about shape shifting alien robots have the same basic conflicts and plots as an old dead Greek guy wrote down a few centuries ago. So you know..... everything is derivative.

Also, is shape shifting alien robots that different from shape-shifting inhuman gods?

You're making a great point for nobody to bother making any fiction from here on out. Is that what you're aiming for, or is it more that you don't like me making a very accurate comparison between Enemy Mine and Darmok?

Yes, because you comparing two of the best liked episodes of Star Trek and branding one of them as basically the same as Sharknado in comparison to the other is totally fair an accurate

If you're going to be ridiculous, you can't complain when people boil your nonsense down to the purest form in reply.

Scroll up to see my thoughts about cult following making things beyond reproach.


I don't give a good God damn how popular that episode is with the 4chan and meme crowd, there are obvious parallels to Enemy Mine.

 Easy E wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Enemy Mine is essentially an elaborated remake of Hell in the Pacific.

True, but if you take any work and start a chain of derivative works from it, the quality will eventually break down sooner rather than later.



I also hate how things get a cult following that they suddenly are completely beyond reproach, no matter HOW valid your criticisms could be.

Ummmm..... then theoretically every work now is the "worst" version of most stories as Aristotle had the basic plots and conflicts all listed out a very, very, very long time ago.

Eh, make any statement suitably vague and it becomes all encompassing

It's like Sun Tzu- what he says is generally spot on, but that is partly because a lot of it is sufficiently vague to apply to a variety of situations in some way.

Voss wrote:
If I'm not on a gaming related website... I don't see any. Period. They don't come up in real life, in the workplace or people I meet. Maybe y'all are spending too much time plugged in?

I think this is a big part of it - you say you've been subjected to a lot of 40K memes at work in a short period of time - presumably you work with gamers who know you're a gamer?
I'll encounter maybe 1 meme a month at work, but we're not that close a social group and it's usually in some sort of context.

I'm not sure it's any different to kids parroting clips and in-jokes from film/TV, which is what we did relentlessly before the internet. "Got any pegs Dave?" "Dude" "Wazaaaaaap?" and so on, shouted at random.
There's always been a big part of culture about making stuff your own and finding your own identity, and that usually boils down to producing inane garbage that means nothing to anyone outside of that particularly sub-culture.


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 Haighus wrote:

*Scratch that- I am pretty sure the dude from Red Dwarf is in one of them, not sure which though. So that's one

Coronation Street, I think, I've never watched it. There was even some weird cross over in Season 9 (?) where they go back to Earth and end off in Coronation Street, in that pub.

Talking about Enemy Mine like it's some grandiose piece of originality and Darmok being a heinous act of plagiarism Yes, they're similar, and the use 'stranded on unfamiliar planet' as the plot point to create the story - but the story is old. I mean Jesus, the title of the '85 film (and the '79 book) is an Anglicised contraction of a two-and-a-half-millennia old Sanskrit proverb, itself in English use for around 250 years, and chosen because it refers specifically to the trope at the centre of the narrative. The idea of two foes, isolated by geography or circumstance, and forced to learn to get on the same page and work together was hardly hot of the presses.

Even restricting ourselves to genre fiction, there are earlier variants of the story by big names like Trail of Cthtulhu, and The Other Wind. Beyond sci-fi and fantasy there are little known works by nobodies like Coriolanus (itself borrowed from Plutarch).

But hey, maybe they're all rip offs of Kish, Akkad, Ebla, and Nagar acquiring a common language and fighting Mari 4,000 years ago?

 Just Tony wrote:
You're making a great point for nobody to bother making any fiction from here on out. Is that what you're aiming for, or is it more that you don't like me making a very accurate comparison between Enemy Mine and Darmok?

There's two pieces of literary wisdom at work here, semingly contradictory. The first is that humans don't have anything new to say- as has been pointed out, we love hearing the same stories. Gilgamesh, Luke Skywalker, King Arthur, every Marvel origin movie is a hero's journey story.

And then there's the other one- every generation needs to tell these stories themselves, in their own ways.

Look at Harry Potter and Hercules. Orphan has special parents and crazy powers. They must go on a series of quests. Great! Story told. But people love new things too. It's why people will gladly rebuy their Space Marines in Primaris, or get that extra set because this time they have 2 guns in their hands. It's theirs, apparently unburdened by history. Don't be mad about our rampant plagiarism... think of every story as well-researched, or inspired by a great story.

I’ve only ever had a problem with memes on places like dakka, where memes are often specific and abstract enough to be a hindrance to communication.

In regular day to day life (even in war games circles) people tend not to use memes that are so horribly abstract that it’s annoying. And I say that working at a university surrounded by kids in their late teens and early twenties.

Nerds in general are pretty bad for references that require prior specific knowledge, long before internet memes I’d cringe at things like monty python references. That said I’ve been known to make LOTR quotes, but only when what I was going to say is close enough in wording to the quote that someone who has no knowledge of LOTR will still understand me without catching the reference.

 Just Tony wrote:
You're making a great point for nobody to bother making any fiction from here on out. Is that what you're aiming for, or is it more that you don't like me making a very accurate comparison between Enemy Mine and Darmok?

Actually, you did originally when you said all derivative works get worse in quality the further from the original you get. My argument then was essentially that this line of thinking is inaccurate.

Since you forgot your own point, I am not surprised that your argument is now that there ARE unique things to be said even on derivative or long standing ideas.

So, I guess we are actually arguing to agree with each other?

Herzlos wrote:

I'm not sure it's any different to kids parroting clips and in-jokes from film/TV, which is what we did relentlessly before the internet. "Got any pegs Dave?" "Dude" "Wazaaaaaap?" and so on, shouted at random.
There's always been a big part of culture about making stuff your own and finding your own identity, and that usually boils down to producing inane garbage that means nothing to anyone outside of that particularly sub-culture.

And as far as I know, fortnite dances haven't had this reaction yet.

The ad continued to grow in notoriety. I remember having a conversation with a doctor who complained that kids were “Tangoing” each other at the cost of perforated ear drums. Naturally, it got banned and we had to write a new version

They don't make 'em like they used to!

Herzlos wrote:

I'm not sure it's any different to kids parroting clips and in-jokes from film/TV, which is what we did relentlessly before the internet. "Got any pegs Dave?" "Dude" "Wazaaaaaap?" and so on, shouted at random.
There's always been a big part of culture about making stuff your own and finding your own identity, and that usually boils down to producing inane garbage that means nothing to anyone outside of that particularly sub-culture.

Heck, we've had people doing elaborations and variations on jokes forever ("Two guys walk into a bar...." or "Knock knock....") and a lot of "memes" are essentially the same kind of thing just expressed as a captioned image. The same goes for ones like the MitM image upthread--it's essentially a sentence with an image attached, not meaningfully different from an emoticon.

And it got replaced with the daft Tango Man motif that stuck so rigidly it spawned a doll that everyone had to have!

Memes are art, Memes are modern art in the true sense of the word.

TheOpposition wrote:
Memes are art, Memes are modern art in the true sense of the word.

Replaceable garbage of minimal effort and no lasting value?

Voss wrote:

TheOpposition wrote:
Memes are art, Memes are modern art in the true sense of the word.

Replaceable garbage of minimal effort and no lasting value?

To be fair, that describes most art

I can buy the argument that memes are art, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have value or great meaning. Most art is disposable, intended for short term or single use, with minimal and highly subjective value.

Memes are however particularly tiresome, especially when they become the exclusive medium by which some communicate or attempt to take the place of more meaningful conversation.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Voss wrote:

TheOpposition wrote:
Memes are art, Memes are modern art in the true sense of the word.

Replaceable garbage of minimal effort and no lasting value?

To be fair, that describes most art

I can buy the argument that memes are art, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have value or great meaning. Most art is disposable, intended for short term or single use, with minimal and highly subjective value.

Memes are however particularly tiresome, especially when they become the exclusive medium by which some communicate or attempt to take the place of more meaningful conversation.

You can not like a art and still say it is a art. However they are a instead a much more shorter term, more reactionery art form that's much more fluid and changeable.

One e created. It's nearly impossible to kill ideas.

Replaceable garbage of minimal effort and no lasting value?

Some memes are obviously better than others, Russian artist Olga Vishnevsky has turned a meme into art.

Memes are however particularly tiresome, especially when they become the exclusive medium by which some communicate or attempt to take the place of more meaningful conversation.

It seems to me the people who are "tired" of memes are the people who did'nt get them in the first place.

Seriously i'm using this for my desktop background.

Please do not attach non-wargaming images to your posts - BrookM

My entire life revolves around communicating with people through memes.


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 Vaktathi wrote:

Voss wrote:

TheOpposition wrote:
Memes are art, Memes are modern art in the true sense of the word.

Replaceable garbage of minimal effort and no lasting value?

To be fair, that describes most art

I can buy the argument that memes are art, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have value or great meaning. Most art is disposable, intended for short term or single use, with minimal and highly subjective value.

Memes are however particularly tiresome, especially when they become the exclusive medium by which some communicate or attempt to take the place of more meaningful conversation.

Most communication is not meaningful. More often than not if you were to ask someone about their most meaningful realization or moment in life I doubt it would be a conversation. Funny how people so value the ability to know what someone is thinking without saying a word. Now those moments. Those have value.


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 LordofHats wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Off-topic, but I have to get it off my chest. I never liked that Star Trek episode. It did not make sense. Certainly, when faced with people who evidently do not understand your metaphors you would switch to speaking without metaphors? Certainly the Tamarians are capable of speaking without using metaphors, otherwise they would never have been able to create metaphors or even learn to speak in the first place. They will need to speak without metaphors when they teach their children to speak for example. This means that Dathon could have spoken without using metaphors if he had wanted to. But then why does Dathon so radically refuse to speak without metaphors to Picard? It does not make sense. Evidently the Tamarians wish to be understood, yet they deliberately speak in a way that makes themselves unintelligible to foreigners?

To answer:

Spoiler:

The episode justifies their odd speaking method as an attempt to get past easily misunderstood words and instead express more complex emotions and intentions through idioms. Presumably they've done this for so long that idioms are their language, and speaking normally isn't something they can do anymore. Really there's no reason mechanically that this language can't work. An word is just a marker for meaning, and an idiom is just a collection of words functioning as a marker for meaning. In the end the function is the same. Whether or not this language could come about is even not hard to imagine. You can have entire conversations using netspeak for example, which isn't that distinct, and if you can can do that, you could potentially cut out the middle man.

Really the silly part is how on earth the Universal Translator is any use at all. How can it piece out the word "ocean" when the actual expression has nothing to do with an ocean? The species could probably communicate among itself in this manner well enough, but talking to anyone else it should appear as little more than gibberish. Picard hanging out with one for a bit on a remote planet isn't remotely enough time to piece out what's going on.

Both the best and worst TNG episode of all time. The worst because it is just straight dumb - They basically make the alien race out to be a bunch of idiots that has lot the ability to adapt and find common ground to communicate. Heck my dog can communicate better than Darmak can. It's also the best for the quality memes and teashirts it has created. Interesting - even though it is such a terrible idea. It is still not an episode I would skip.

TheOpposition wrote:

Memes are however particularly tiresome, especially when they become the exclusive medium by which some communicate or attempt to take the place of more meaningful conversation.

It seems to me the people who are "tired" of memes are the people who did'nt get them in the first place.

I grew up in the great precambrian meme cauldron that was something awful and 00's 4chan, I couldn't count the number of memes I've got saved or made that I once found hilarious, many I still do.

However, as I said, when people can't communicate without using them , or when you've seen the same meme for the 80 millionth time, etc, their cleverness and ability to amuse degrades rapidly.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Voss wrote:

TheOpposition wrote:
Memes are art, Memes are modern art in the true sense of the word.

Replaceable garbage of minimal effort and no lasting value?

To be fair, that describes most art

I can buy the argument that memes are art, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have value or great meaning. Most art is disposable, intended for short term or single use, with minimal and highly subjective value.

Memes are however particularly tiresome, especially when they become the exclusive medium by which some communicate or attempt to take the place of more meaningful conversation.

Most communication is not meaningful. More often than not if you were to ask someone about their most meaningful realization or moment in life I doubt it would be a conversation. Funny how people so value the ability to know what someone is thinking without saying a word. Now those moments. Those have value.

Methinks I was misunderstood here. There are times and places for meaningful conversation. It needn't be all the time, spamming memes to pals has its place. However, when the time and place are appropriate for needing to actually converse with someone, and memes are all one can really communicate with, there is a problem. When discussing nuanced political issues, technical matters, or having an important need to know where why the hell you haven't picked them up yet, that tends to have problems. The last one almost got someone fired at my office recently.

At the end of the day an equal amount of people will fail at being tactful with memes and they will fail at being tactful with words. I don't think the meme is to blame here. Lack of tact is. Part of being tactful with memes is not overusing them too so I will grant you that.

Really break it down though. A picture is worth a 1000 words is an old saying. So what is a picture with 10 words on it worth? In todays high paced world you need quick information. OFC most of the time we just consume trash information and comedy but it is a highly effective way to communicate thoughts/ideas/and emotions.

Some memes are obviously better than others, Russian artist Olga Vishnevsky has turned a meme into art.

Oh wow, yeah, no one has ever made a last supper parody before, it must be because of cool internet culture right?

Oh wow, yeah, no one has ever made a last supper parody before, it must be because of cool internet culture right?

Its an example of art, of something that took talent to make. Compare it to corporate art:

Its an example of art, of something that took talent to make

Except it didn't that was the point of my sarcastic quip there in case you missed it.

Maybe I should just have posted the various Star Wars, dogs playing poker, Simpsons, etc versions of last supper to prove my point

I won't get into anything too political, but I've personally grown to dislike how memes are increasingly used for grotesque opinions.The volume of thinly veiled homophobia, misogyny and xenophobia is downright depressing.

I don't know. Maybe I'm overthinking it and it's always been there. Maybe is just teenagers trying to be edgy.

 Mr Nobody wrote:
I won't get into anything too political, but I've personally grown to dislike how memes are increasingly used for grotesque opinions.The volume of thinly veiled homophobia, misogyny and xenophobia is downright depressing.

I don't know. Maybe I'm overthinking it and it's always been there. Maybe is just teenagers trying to be edgy.

Have you seen the # meme, have you seen the OK meme, how about the clown world meme, all are created to mock the MSMs obsession with the things you mentioned by hanging a lantern on their utter lack of ability or willing to investigate these memes and their need to generate revenue by creating a non existent boogy man to fight, all were made up precisely to make fun of the liberal media monolith and they have been proven correct every single time, its glorious that a thing as simple as a meme can do this, the journalism class is losing its status as gatekeepers on information because they cannot handle a few edgy boys/girls on the internet and their meme magic..... honk honk

 Mr Nobody wrote:
I won't get into anything too political, but I've personally grown to dislike how memes are increasingly used for grotesque opinions.The volume of thinly veiled homophobia, misogyny and xenophobia is downright depressing.

I don't know. Maybe I'm overthinking it and it's always been there. Maybe is just teenagers trying to be edgy.

It's always been there, but it's definitely become more overt and the art form has absolutely become the preferred medium of that particular demographic.

A lot of it also used to be done much more ironically or just to be edgy, but unfortunately the saying about any group acting like idiots for fun will soon attract real idiots thinking they're in good company sadly held true.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
I won't get into anything too political, but I've personally grown to dislike how memes are increasingly used for grotesque opinions.The volume of thinly veiled homophobia, misogyny and xenophobia is downright depressing.

I don't know. Maybe I'm overthinking it and it's always been there. Maybe is just teenagers trying to be edgy.

It's always been there, but it's definitely become more overt and the art form has absolutely become the preferred medium of that particular demographic.

A lot of it also used to be done much more ironically or just to be edgy, but unfortunately the saying about any group acting like idiots for fun will soon attract real idiots thinking they're in good company sadly held true.

99.9% of it still is, but you and others focus on that 0.01% and claim it represents the whole, I am part of a meme page on facebook started by a woman and is mostly woman and even I was shocked at some of the close to the bone memes on there, most are trash tier though, you also have 40k memes, 30k ones, AOS, star wars, star trek, every kind of pop culture you can think of, media memes, political memes, baby memes, cat memes, hecking good doggo memes, right wing memes... .not left wing ones though.... cos the left cant meme (which is is a meme).

So yes you are overthinking it or being overexposed to it by yourself or other means, saying memes, that are a form of language, are "preferred medium of that particular demographic" is no different from saying racists use words, therefore anyone that uses words is racist... language cannot inherently be racist, its not possible.

 Formosa wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
I won't get into anything too political, but I've personally grown to dislike how memes are increasingly used for grotesque opinions.The volume of thinly veiled homophobia, misogyny and xenophobia is downright depressing.

I don't know. Maybe I'm overthinking it and it's always been there. Maybe is just teenagers trying to be edgy.

It's always been there, but it's definitely become more overt and the art form has absolutely become the preferred medium of that particular demographic.

A lot of it also used to be done much more ironically or just to be edgy, but unfortunately the saying about any group acting like idiots for fun will soon attract real idiots thinking they're in good company sadly held true.

99.9% of it still is, but you and others focus on that 0.01% and claim it represents the whole,

Yeah no. I left 4chan when it was taken over by neo-nazis and it should be clear from real world events that this isn't just "being edgy" or "sticking it to the libs", it's become about real radicalization and violence.

But hey I'm sure those shooters were just being ironic right?

 Formosa wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
I won't get into anything too political, but I've personally grown to dislike how memes are increasingly used for grotesque opinions.The volume of thinly veiled homophobia, misogyny and xenophobia is downright depressing.

I don't know. Maybe I'm overthinking it and it's always been there. Maybe is just teenagers trying to be edgy.

It's always been there, but it's definitely become more overt and the art form has absolutely become the preferred medium of that particular demographic.

A lot of it also used to be done much more ironically or just to be edgy, but unfortunately the saying about any group acting like idiots for fun will soon attract real idiots thinking they're in good company sadly held true.

99.9% of it still is, but you and others focus on that 0.01% and claim it represents the whole, I am part of a meme page on facebook started by a woman and is mostly woman and even I was shocked at some of the close to the bone memes on there, most are trash tier though, you also have 40k memes, 30k ones, AOS, star wars, star trek, every kind of pop culture you can think of, media memes, political memes, baby memes, cat memes, hecking good doggo memes, right wing memes... .not left wing ones though.... cos the left cant meme (which is is a meme).

Methinks you're engaging in a wee bit of projection here. I never said that the tiny minority of such memes represent them all. Meme's absolutely come in all kinds of forms from all kinds of groups. As I said, I've got an uncountable number of memes stashed in my funnies folder. However, they are definitely more overt in espousing concepts of homophobia, misogyny and xenophobia than they used to be, and their use as such likewise is much more prominent. That's not the same thing as saying all meme's are these things. It's an observation on their evolution and usage by certain groups.

So yes you are overthinking it or being overexposed to it by yourself or other means, saying memes, that are a form of language, are "preferred medium of that particular demographic" is no different from saying racists use words, therefore anyone that uses words is racist... language cannot inherently be racist, its not possible.

Or rather, it's more akin to noting that certain words and phrases are used in such contexts to convey those concepts and that those espousing such views use them a lot, and that such words and phrases can have (or can acquire) those properties.


Lets be real, there's been a cultural shift in many places and the use of memes. 4chan for instance was once the internet equivalent of a sketchy bathroom for people to piss all over and generally just be gross and get it out of their system, and people would say things and post memes that were often horrible but mostly didn't have real intent behind them. Over time however, it attracted a lot of people who actually enjoy the taste of piss, and it went from "get it out in a place where it doesn't matter" to "hey lets start having tasting parties, I kinda like rolling around in all this!" It doesn't mean all memes are used in this way, or that memes fundamentally reflect such views, but to pretend that such a shift hasn't taken place is also monstrously disingenuous.

The genius of memes is that they aren't just a picture, they are a story. Each time they are posted something get added, you are not just seeing the story of its creator but the story of everyone who has ever posted it, this creates the meme magic and their is light meme magic and dark meme magic. The liight meme magic is the healing magic that is given to people like me, it helps us shoulder the weight of living in this dystopian novel, but to the enemies of truth it gives dark magic, this is why when reporters from Vox or Vice try to write on the goings on of online messsage boards they return scared and confused. This is because the energy of all the gak posters has built up and saturated the meme. Think of it like the birth of Slaanesh. I did a video on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueCA49euI-M&t=285s

 ScarletRose wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
I won't get into anything too political, but I've personally grown to dislike how memes are increasingly used for grotesque opinions.The volume of thinly veiled homophobia, misogyny and xenophobia is downright depressing.

I don't know. Maybe I'm overthinking it and it's always been there. Maybe is just teenagers trying to be edgy.

It's always been there, but it's definitely become more overt and the art form has absolutely become the preferred medium of that particular demographic.

A lot of it also used to be done much more ironically or just to be edgy, but unfortunately the saying about any group acting like idiots for fun will soon attract real idiots thinking they're in good company sadly held true.

99.9% of it still is, but you and others focus on that 0.01% and claim it represents the whole,

Yeah no. I left 4chan when it was taken over by neo-nazis and it should be clear from real world events that this isn't just "being edgy" or "sticking it to the libs", it's become about real radicalization and violence.

But hey I'm sure those shooters were just being ironic right?

I never went to 4chan due to its reputation alone, but I feel like I should to see if what people say about it is true, I am leaning on no its not mainly due to how much people lie about this kind of thing, as for your second statement, .... what an incredibly stupid thing to say, buy your reasoning every single person on 4chan or who uses memes is a shooter.... think you need to expand on that comment as I do not think you meant to come of that way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Methinks you're engaging in a wee bit of projection here.

indicate where or its just you trying to poison the well right off the bat, there is no projection and anything you have inferred indicating that is flatly wrong.

I never said that the tiny minority of such memes represent them all.

Indicate what "such memes" you are referring to please

Meme's absolutely come in all kinds of forms from all kinds of groups.

Yes they do, and that is my point, the vast vast majority of memes are just run of the mill.

However, they are definitely more overt in espousing concepts of homophobia, misogyny and xenophobia than they used to be

And? so what if a few people are throwing around such things, its impossible to stop them and again the vast majority of memes are run of the mill, this to me feels like you projecting

and their use as such likewise is much more prominent.

But why are they more prominent, that is the question that should be asked, I have an opinion on it, but I would like to hear yours please.

That's not the same thing as saying all meme's are these things. It's an observation on their evolution and usage by certain groups.

Its not an evolution of their usage by certain groups its an evolution of language used by ALL groups which also happens to be racists etc. but we are hyper focused on that one group so WE blow it out of proportion which leads to a snow ball effect from these people, they know we will react to such horrible things so they make more of these horrible things so we react and they react and the cycle never ends.

Lets be real, there's been a cultural shift in many places and the use of memes

Agreed, they have become mainstream, when the US president starts using memes you know its mainstream.

4chan for instance was once the internet equivalent of a sketchy bathroom for people to piss all over and generally just be gross and get it out of their system

I have not been on their so I cannot comment but I know what you mean, just go into any barracks toilets and you will see some of the most horrific things written on the walls.

and people would say things and post memes that were often horrible but mostly didn't have real intent behind them.

I agree dude, and that is the most common thing with memes still, they are just throw away simple form communication that does not require much thought and most of the time has no thought put into them #notalways though.

Over time however, it attracted a lot of people who actually enjoy the taste of piss, and it went from "get it out in a place where it doesn't matter" to "hey lets start having tasting parties

So what, let them taste each other piss, 9/10 of the crap they produce we will never see unless we go looking for it, its just yet another bubble on the internet, twitter, facebook etc. all have the same problems

It doesn't mean all memes are used in this way, or that memes fundamentally reflect such views, but to pretend that such a shift hasn't taken place is also monstrously disingenuous.

And here we get to the important statement, you ARE saying that memes are inherently dangerous, and we agree as ALL language is inherently dangerous as it allows us to communicate and thus misunderstand, lie etc. but should we ban all language because bad words exist, should we ban all memes because bad ones exist?

So no, I totally reject your false premise that memes fundamentally reflect such views, I reject that its "monstrously disingenuous", you have made these assertions so I ask that you prove them please.

Yes, 4chan really is as bad as claimed. It used to be a site full of shock humor, where people would post stuff like "Hitler was right, kill all the Jews" as a joke and as a weird contest to see who could come up with the most offensive possible things to say. But at some point in the past few years it stopped being purely a shock humor thing and people started taking it seriously. Whether that was a case of the initial members moving off to the extremes in their beliefs or just extremists deciding to take 4chan as their new home, who knows. But what used to be memes about "LOL TRUMP BUILD THAT WALL" from people who knew perfectly well it was a stupid idea and were playing the role of right-wing extremist for humor value turned into real white supremacists using memes to spread their ideas. What used to be offensive jokes about "can't get laid, shoot all women" turned into incels genuinely believing they are entitled to sex and a mass murderer live streaming his murders while quoting 4chan memes.

Yes, 4chan really is as bad as claimed. It used to be a site full of shock humor, where people would post stuff like "Hitler was right, kill all the Jews" as a joke and as a weird contest to see who could come up with the most offensive possible things to say. But at some point in the past few years it stopped being purely a shock humor thing and people started taking it seriously. Whether that was a case of the initial members moving off to the extremes in their beliefs or just extremists deciding to take 4chan as their new home, who knows. But what used to be memes about "LOL TRUMP BUILD THAT WALL" from people who knew perfectly well it was a stupid idea and were playing the role of right-wing extremist for humor value turned into real white supremacists using memes to spread their ideas. What used to be offensive jokes about "can't get laid, shoot all women" turned into incels genuinely believing they are entitled to sex and a mass murderer live streaming his murders while quoting 4chan memes.

4chan has a cooking and a origami section. Personally I like cruise the paranormal section trying to find a way to summon Cthulhu. Yea their are gakky people on 4chan but I have to say the place where I have gotten the weirdest and most disturbing threats is on Twitter.
Also Elliot Rodger wasn't on 4chan he was involved in an online community of guys who claimed that pickupartist had scammed them and subscribed to the Young Turks and the New Zealand shooter went to 8chan which is not in anyway affiliated with 4chan.

TheOpposition wrote:

Yes, 4chan really is as bad as claimed. It used to be a site full of shock humor, where people would post stuff like "Hitler was right, kill all the Jews" as a joke and as a weird contest to see who could come up with the most offensive possible things to say. But at some point in the past few years it stopped being purely a shock humor thing and people started taking it seriously. Whether that was a case of the initial members moving off to the extremes in their beliefs or just extremists deciding to take 4chan as their new home, who knows. But what used to be memes about "LOL TRUMP BUILD THAT WALL" from people who knew perfectly well it was a stupid idea and were playing the role of right-wing extremist for humor value turned into real white supremacists using memes to spread their ideas. What used to be offensive jokes about "can't get laid, shoot all women" turned into incels genuinely believing they are entitled to sex and a mass murderer live streaming his murders while quoting 4chan memes.

4chan has a cooking and a origami section. Personally I like cruise the paranormal section trying to find a way to summon Cthulhu. Yea their are gakky people on 4chan but I have to say the place where I have gotten the weirdest and most disturbing threats is on Twitter.
Also Elliot Rodger wasn't on 4chan he was involved in an online community of guys who claimed that pickupartist had scammed them and subscribed to the Young Turks and the New Zealand shooter went to 8chan which is not in anyway affiliated with 4chan.

A cooking section eh, is it any good? and the paranormal section, is that where the SCP series came from, as that is excellent.

I totally agree about twitter btw, it is THE biggest spot for the extremes on the internet and I never hear anyone asking for it to be shut down.

A cooking section eh, is it any good?

This looks good: http://boards.4channel.org/ck/thread/12407559

and the paranormal section, is that where the SCP series came from, as that is excellent.

Not sure but they definitely talk about it there.

I totally agree about twitter btw, it is THE biggest spot for the extremes on the internet and I never hear anyone asking for it to be shut down.

I use it to promote my youtube channel. Why anyone would use it for fun is beyond me.

My favorite meme is clownworld. As the saying goes its the court jester that gets to mock the king and the kingdom.

Please do not attach non-wargaming images to your posts - BrookM

That's a pretty solid meme, mine is the NPC meme because left or right there seems to be people almost pre programmed with set responses, it's something I have been noticing on Facebook when I go on Jeremy corbyns page, it's actually made me more self aware to try and think more about what I'm saying and research more, memes can do good!

Jeremy corbyns page

The man is out of his mind, however I do appreciate the intellectual Chaos he causes as I would take Chaos over stagnation.

the NPC meme

Its too depressing for me, far too accurate.

I salute the lizard men for recognizing Kek.

Please do not attach non-wargaming images to your posts - BrookM

Please stop attaching non-wargaming images to your posts, it's against forum rules.

 Formosa wrote:
I never hear anyone asking for it to be shut down.

That's because Twitter has at least some token degree of accountability and control. You don't see much demand for it to be shut down entirely because all of the demand is for Twitter to enforce content rules and stop allowing offensive material. You see people arguing for 4chan to be shut down because, in addition to accusations of illegal activity, 4chan makes a point of not controlling its content no matter how offensive it is. So all that's left is to block the site entirely.


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TheOpposition wrote:
I salute the lizard men for recognizing Kek.

Well, you're certainly doing a good job of demonstrating why people dislike "meme culture" and the people involved in it.


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 Formosa wrote:
That's a pretty solid meme, mine is the NPC meme because left or right there seems to be people almost pre programmed with set responses

This is a rather ironic statement given the fact that the entire point of a meme is repeating a set response. It comes across as the same kind of thing as "edgy" teenagers bragging about how non-conformist they are by buying mass-produced shirts with the same slogans as all of their friends.

That's because Twitter has at least some token degree of accountability and control.

No it hasn't, it favors certain individuals and viewpoints.

Well, you're certainly doing a good job of demonstrating why people dislike "meme culture" and the people involved in it.

What have I done wrong?

Please stop attaching non-wargaming images to your posts,

TheOpposition wrote:
No it hasn't, it favors certain individuals and viewpoints.

Yes, it does favor certain individuals and viewpoints but that has nothing to do with accountability. People don't lobby to ban Twitter entirely because in theory Twitter's rules prohibit people from posting Nazi ideology and at least in theory they can lobby Twitter to enforce their rules and ban the Nazi accounts. Twitter is ineffective in doing so, but at least there's the hope that this could be changed. People lobby to ban 4chan because 4chan's response to "hey, you have a Nazi problem" is to openly refuse to delete any content whatsoever, no matter how offensive it is, unless they are legally required to do so to avoid prison. There is no hope of getting 4chan to enforce any kind of standards so people just want to get rid of it.

What have done wrong?

Posting stupid meme images that have nothing to do with any useful discussion, and now mocking the site rules by attaching a meme image that has nothing to do with the discussion but lets you attach a file that is technically related to wargaming. You're acting like a small child who responds to a parent telling them to stop poking their sibling by hovering their finger 0.0001" away and saying "I'M NOT TOUCHING THEM I'M NOT TOUCHING THEM I'M NOT TOUCHING THEM".

I get it, the meme of misspelling Guilliman’s name has gotten pretty old.

That's because Twitter has at least some token degree of accountability and control.

To itself, so no accountability or control.

You don't see much demand for it to be shut down entirely because all of the demand is for Twitter to enforce content rules and stop allowing offensive material.

I find twitter offensive, therefore it should be shut down, offence is purely subjective, I agree certain clearly extreme views should be restricted though, far left and far right, apply the rules across the board equally.... twitter by its own CEOs admission does not do this.

You see people arguing for 4chan to be shut down because, in addition to accusations of illegal activity, 4chan makes a point of not controlling its content no matter how offensive it is.

good, well done to 4chan, you are doing a good job of selling it to me, so it has no highly subjective censorship and its up to me to decide what I can see or not see, I like that idea.

So all that's left is to block the site entirely.

Or let the market decide

Well, you're certainly doing a good job of demonstrating why people dislike "meme culture" and the people involved in it.

by showing a frog...... dude.

This is a rather ironic statement given the fact that the entire point of a meme is repeating a set response. It comes across as the same kind of thing as "edgy" teenagers bragging about how non-conformist they are by buying mass-produced shirts with the same slogans as all of their friends.

"mine is the NPC meme because left or right there seems to be people almost pre programmed with set responses"

Dude......


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 Crazyterran wrote:
I get it, the meme of misspelling Guilliman’s name has gotten pretty old.

And that is the wonderful thing about memes.... eventually they go away... mostly, bloody dark angels one wont die though

 Formosa wrote:
To itself, so no accountability or control.

Yes, but you're missing the point. Twitter has a central authority to appeal to and say "please ban this stuff from your service", so Twitter gets a bunch of appeals to do that. 4chan deliberately refuses to even pretend to control its content or listen to appeals to ban offensive material, so people resort to calling for banning 4chan entirely.

good, well done to 4chan, you are doing a good job of selling it to me, so it has no highly subjective censorship and its up to me to decide what I can see or not see, I like that idea.

Sure, I suppose if you enjoy swimming around in the sewer and take pride in how much you're getting everywhere then 4chan is appealing for that kind of thing. Personally I don't understand the appeal of having the ability to click a link and not be sure if it's going to be a 40k list discussion or Nazi propaganda or just graphic photos of murder victims, but I suppose everyone has their variety of masochism.

(I'm told 4chan has finally done something about the illegal pornography problem, so at least you probably won't be getting on any FBI watch lists anymore.)

Or let the market decide

That's also an option. And please note that I'm not advocating banning 4chan. Unlike Twitter removing material the company doesn't like the government (or ISPs acting as an extension of the government's authority) blocking access to 4chan would in fact be a free speech violation. I'm just pointing out why people do call for banning the site even if they don't call for banning Twitter/Facebook/etc.

by showing a frog...... dude.

By posting irrelevant spam nonsense for the sole purpose of annoying the moderators, yes.

Yes, but you're missing the point. Twitter has a central authority to appeal to and say "please ban this stuff from your service", so Twitter gets a bunch of appeals to do that. 4chan deliberately refuses to even pretend to control its content or listen to appeals to ban offensive material, so people resort to calling for banning 4chan entirely.

I got your point but I do not think you got mine, Twitter censors and bans particular people for using certain phrases or terms that go against their ideology, this was confirmed by tim pool and jack dorsey, so when at the top of the pile you have a system that bans and censors only certain people and lets others get away with the same offences, that is no control, that is no accountability, they even admitted that they allow people to break the rules if they are famous enough, that is worse than no censorship to me, one lets you say what you want with a couple of exceptions (4chan) and the other can randomly ban you for seemingly random reasons then NOT apply those same rules to another person, but that appears to be about to change, legislation in the UK is about to hit twitter and facebook and force them to be platforms and it looks like the same is about to happen in the US.

Sure, I suppose if you enjoy swimming around in the sewer and take pride in how much you're getting everywhere then 4chan is appealing for that kind of thing. Personally I don't understand the appeal of having the ability to click a link and not be sure if it's going to be a 40k list discussion or Nazi propaganda or just graphic photos of murder victims, but I suppose everyone has their variety of masochism.

Thats the point though, its my choice, from my google fu I have seen that /pol is the one to avoid and is what you think the whole site is and a couple other pages that have shady stuff but otherwise 4chan seems to be a pretty open place like Dakka, I will check it out.

That's also an option. And please note that I'm not advocating banning 4chan. Unlike Twitter removing material the company doesn't like the government (or ISPs acting as an extension of the government's authority) blocking access to 4chan would in fact be a free speech violation. I'm just pointing out why people do call for banning the site even if they don't call for banning Twitter/Facebook/etc.

those people are hypocrites then, but who isnt haha

By posting irrelevant spam nonsense for the sole purpose of annoying the moderators, yes.

Are those pics spam, I thought it was a warhammer total war slann with a pepe head? but sure if its against the rules he should stop.

But yeah, the keyword that's been said about Twitter is 'token' accountability.

Please do not post images that contain swearing - ingtaer.

Twitter to enforce their rules and ban the Nazi accounts

Nazi propaganda

You seem very focused on this. Tell me what percentage of the American public do you consider to be Nazis?

Sure, I suppose if you enjoy swimming around in the sewer and take pride in how much

Honestly i've never seen so much high school level drama as on twitter.

I'm told 4chan has finally done something about the illegal pornography problem, so at least you probably won't be getting on any FBI watch lists anymore.

Twitter is full of pro pedophile accounts. Their were people posting about illegal things on 4chan and those guys got doxxed.

By posting irrelevant spam nonsense for the sole purpose of annoying the moderators, yes.

No this thread is about meme culture. Pepe the frog is the most famous of all memes.

and behold the rarest Pepe of them all....

yep compel, but because of twitters actions and their status as the new "public square" they are heading super fast towards regulation... which i do not like :( in ideal world we would be able to sort these things out without the government.

yep compel, but because of twitters actions and their status as the new "public square" they are heading super fast towards regulation... which i do not like :( in ideal world we would be able to sort these things out without the government.

I actually wouldn't mind any of this if Twitter didn't essentially have a monopoly on social media. I'm trying to promote a YouTube channel, to do that I pretty much have to use twitter.

TheOpposition wrote:
actually wouldn't mind any of this if Twitter didn't essentially have a monopoly on social media. I'm trying to promote a YouTube channel, to do that I pretty much have to use twitter.

Twitter doesn't in any way have a monopoly. That word has a specific meaning.

 Ouze wrote:

TheOpposition wrote:
actually wouldn't mind any of this if Twitter didn't essentially have a monopoly on social media. I'm trying to promote a YouTube channel, to do that I pretty much have to use twitter.

Twitter doesn't in any way have a monopoly. That word has a specific meaning.

that is very debatable, when a competitor appeared almost out of the blue the MSM and certain politicians turned on them and got them shut down, then certain web browsers stopped supporting it... I am of course talking about Gab and its extension, I think the term is an oligopoly

Is it debateable, though? The guy literally said he wants to promote a Youtube channel, which is a social media network in and of itself. The idea that Twitter has a monopoly of any kind of laughable nonsense.

 Ouze wrote:
Is it debateable, though? The guy literally said he wants to promote a Youtube channel, which is a social media network in and of itself. The idea that Twitter has a monopoly of any kind of laughable nonsense.

Well, I would say its debatable yes, simply because of all the highly suspicious actions they have all had in the last 3 years, all working in concert, companies being forced out, media collusion etc. but that is a topic for another thread i suppose, this is about meme culture.

Well, I would say its debatable yes, simply because of all the highly suspicious actions they have all had in the last 3 years, all working in concert, companies being forced out, media collusion etc. but that is a topic for another thread i suppose, this is about meme culture.

Agreed, lets get back to meme culture.

Its interesting that the people who seem to say that memes are stupid are the very pro corporate media types that memes often make fun of. Look I know its tough not being one of the cool kids but the only people excluding you are yourselves. How bout this, go on twitter and post a rare Pepe and tell me if it doesn't make you feel better.


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The fifth Chaos God has been born, KEK.

I don't get Pepe memes. Where's the joke, or the thing being communicated?

Personally I like to pronounce meme 'même' because you see the same thing again and again.

Here is a meme for anyone that played a Mordheim campaign that included shadow elves:

Don't dredge up old threads, especially just to push your youtube channel.