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Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 07:26:05


Post by: deotrims 16th


Ever since I've seen the first primaris marines from the starter box sets, something about the model has always looked a bit off and I have just realized it now. The legs look to long compared to the height of them. Now I don't know whether this is just me or other people have noticed this.


Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 07:35:18


Post by: Ishagu


I disagree about the legs.

As for the Dreadnought complaint you have; the new walker isn't a Dread. GW have not forgotten anything as you can also purchase a Primaris Dreadnought called the Redemptor.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 07:36:25


Post by: Dudeface


 deotrims 16th wrote:
Ever since I've seen the first primaris marines from the starter box sets, something about the model has always looked a bit off and I have just realized it now. The legs look to long compared to the height of them. Now I don't know whether this is just me or other people have noticed this.


Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.


Classic marines were too squatty with legs that were in weird proportions, to me Primaris look to be a better scale but that might just be personal preference.

Worth noting the dreadknight doesn't have a roll cage, but if you're not having an enclosed cockpit then a roll cage makes sense surely? There are many weird design choices with the new walker, but giving marines a battle walker that doesn't require a ready supply of mutilated corpses seems like a solid logistical option to me.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 07:40:03


Post by: Ishagu


If Guardsmen can have walkers so can Astartes. That's all there is to it.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 07:41:41


Post by: Stux


 deotrims 16th wrote:
Ever since I've seen the first primaris marines from the starter box sets, something about the model has always looked a bit off and I have just realized it now. The legs look to long compared to the height of them. Now I don't know whether this is just me or other people have noticed this.


Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.


I feel exactly the opposite.

Old marines always looked a bit off proportion wise to me. Primaris fixed that, and I think generally look much better.

Regarding the dreadnought - they didn't forget, it's not a dreadnought. They aren't calling it a dreadnought. It's just based on the same chassis. What you're basically saying is the Predator is like they forgot the Rhino was a transport - it's irrelevant, they're different units.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 10:24:59


Post by: Crispy78


I thought dreadnoughts were supposed to be venerated ancient technology that couldn't be reproduced any more, like terminator armour.

Seems a bit weird that they can build damn near the same thing without any difficulty...


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 10:30:29


Post by: YeOldSaltPotato


That would by why this is based off the new redemptor chassis rather than some of the older stuff.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 10:33:45


Post by: robbienw


 deotrims 16th wrote:
Ever since I've seen the first primaris marines from the starter box sets, something about the model has always looked a bit off and I have just realized it now. The legs look to long compared to the height of them. Now I don't know whether this is just me or other people have noticed this.


Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.


I'm with you on that. People tell me Primaris are closer to ideal art proportions, and that is great, but they still look 'off' to me. I also don't like way the lower greaves are in that it makes them look like they are wearing ski boots (this effect is magnified even further on gravis armour)

Not a fan of the Invictor. I don't have a problem with open top walkers or warsuits as such. But they have essentially taken a redemptor dreadnought and pasted a marine in a roll cage in there, which looks anf feels wrong. It also doesn't help that the marine pilot looks very awkward.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 10:34:13


Post by: =Angel=


 deotrims 16th wrote:
Ever since I've seen the first primaris marines from the starter box sets, something about the model has always looked a bit off and I have just realized it now. The legs look to long compared to the height of them. Now I don't know whether this is just me or other people have noticed this.


Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.


The legs do look stretched. Part of that is looking at 3rd ed marines for 20 years, part is they are a little too stylised the other way.

The issue is not whether the marines could graft a munitorum supply crate's worth of heavy stubbers onto a (embiggened) dreadnought frame, then have the controls all wire up to a joystick where the sarcophagus should be. The issue is whether they would.

The primary reason dreads are valued is that they allow a veteran warrior to keep fighting. They are effective in combat because they are heavily armoured and ordinarily carry heavier weapons than a power armoured marine could manage alone. They can act as strongpoints in the marine line, spearhead assaults and effectively deal with a range of targets marine tactical squads might struggle with (armour/monsters, hordes, super elite infantry)

This walker dispenses with heavy armour and has a ton of machineguns, which is useful against hordes, but not to the extent that it justifies using a dreadnought platform. A marine could probably handle a twin heavy stubber as easily as he could handle a plasmacannon. It also looks like it has a regular pilot rather than a veteran warrior- from a background POV this thing has a lot less utility than a dread on a lot of levels.

Visually, this scoutnought(?) is a mess. The stubber arm is fine, but chin stubbers and the ccw arm make no sense- the marine is holding a joystick and a throttle. If he's aiming the torso at something, the right arm may follow his aim, but if the arm aims to the right, will there be lag before the torso catches up? If not, whats the point of having an arm? And how is he attacking with the other 'hand' arm?

A sarcophagus marine traditionally had two arms to operate, one with a main ranged weapon, the other with a melee weapon, often with a light weapon built in. This gave the marine one thing to focus on at a time for each hand firing the main weapon and supporting with the light weapon when appropriate, smashing with the CCW and supporting with the gun limb when sensible. Upgunned dreads had oneshot support weapons or specialist equipment to operate but it was all linked to the human form. Visually, it cohered in a way this does not.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 10:35:37


Post by: Nazrak


The Primaris are just as weird as the classic Marines, just in a different way – the former are proportioned like the Stormcast Eternals from AoS, with bizarrely long legs.

I'm no fan of pretty much any of the Primaris stuff, either design- or lore-wise, but I don't actually mind that new walker thing too much. Still won't be getting one though as it doesn't fit with my existing Proper Marines.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 10:44:16


Post by: Crispy78


YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
That would by why this is based off the new redemptor chassis rather than some of the older stuff.


Yeah, and I'm not really seeing a satisfying enough reason for the Imperium suddenly being able to make a brand new flavour of dreadnought *but* not any of the old ones, other than that GW wanted a new flavour dreadnought to be able to sell alongside their new flavour of space marines...


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 11:21:21


Post by: Ginjitzu


Their legs are indeed a good deal longer in relation to their torso, but I believe that was the intention, as Space Marines were always somewhat poorly proportioned.

As to your side note, I don't know that it's fair to say that they've forgotten what dreadnoughts are, but I do agree that the new walker is both a poor concept as well as a bad looking model. I put them in the same category as the Repulsor, Suppressor and Inceptor models: never buying! So far I find the Primaris range to be a mixed bag of about 50% greatness mixed with 50% garbage.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 11:30:03


Post by: Ragnar69


Crispy78 wrote:
I thought dreadnoughts were supposed to be venerated ancient technology that couldn't be reproduced any more, like terminator armour.

Seems a bit weird that they can build damn near the same thing without any difficulty...


The ancient technology in dreadnaughts is IIRC the way they are piloted by basically just the brain of the crippled marine. This new walker is piloted with manual controls.

It's the same with Terminator armour and Centurions. Termies are much smaller with better protection but harder to produce. Strapping a marine in a huge exo-skeleton does need much less technology.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 11:34:20


Post by: secretForge


I really like the model, but I'm probably going to enclose the pilot and head cannon it as a light dreadnought.

And I like the idea of a double handed gun slinger style one that's been floating around photoshoped...


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 12:44:49


Post by: Dudeface


Crispy78 wrote:
YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
That would by why this is based off the new redemptor chassis rather than some of the older stuff.


Yeah, and I'm not really seeing a satisfying enough reason for the Imperium suddenly being able to make a brand new flavour of dreadnought *but* not any of the old ones, other than that GW wanted a new flavour dreadnought to be able to sell alongside their new flavour of space marines...


Cawl breaking rules and inventing names is the reason. He wants new technologies he's dreaming up with his stamp on, i.e. the redemptor is born. Why bother re-learning the tech of an older model with lower power output/armour etc.when you can go full on American "bigger is better" on it.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 12:48:40


Post by: posermcbogus


The long legs is an interesting observation, and got me thinking a bit about why I'm not a fan of the Primaris range.

I really like the Hajime Katoki Gundam designs, and he is famous for giving his mobile suits, and even revising older mobile suits, to have long legs. I quite like this, as it gives the Gundam a nice, sleek feel, and I think it helps create a sense of movement and action when you pose them, especially for models 'in-flight'.
But I think It clashes with the classic aesthetic of space marines. For a long time, marines have been depicted as like human tanks. The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.
Despite their radically increase stature, primaris marines don't feel like their reflect that sense of weight. Their proportions have been adjusted to match the size of their pauldrons, and so that sense of heaviness is reduced. On top of that, I feel like some of the armor plates have been added arbitrarily, just to use up space and fill out areas where details have been lost due to upscaling. I think this also takes away from the original design, as it gives them a more utilitarian look - something taken to really silly extents with the newer kits - and less of the clunky weight of the classic design.
In the grand scheme of things, this, plus the abandoning of the skull-invoking mk VII helmet makes them blend into the amorphous mass of power-armored sci-fi suits. Iron man, Master Chief, the various troopers of Star Wars, the list is long.
Classic marines looked heavy. They looked ultra-reinforced. They were bigger than a man, but they looked like, somewhere inside, there were large men, soaking up fire. The shock troops of a war-torn, decaying empire. Primaris look a bit like any power suited sci-fi guys, and only seem 'bigger' because the models are literally larger. That weightiness, that sense of bulk has disappeared, along with some of their uniqueness.

The same can be said for the new drednoughts. I LOVE the classic dred design. Again, in a pop-culture universe dominated by sleek war machines, and great walking mobile fortresses, the dred feels old. It feels like it clanks about the battlefield, ancient pilot's grisly remains fused inside - it's brilliant and unique, and totally 40k - I particularly like the idea that some chapters actively fear being interred in drednoughts, that they're last-option solutions to a crisis in experienced manpower. By giving them sleek fingers, and longer legs with the new primaris dreds, GW have again moved towards a more unremarkable aesthetic. I can see why some people might like the new rollcage dred, as it pretty explicitly invokes Aliens, a movie I also love. But it has no place in the space marine line. It feels sleek, mobile, and light, rather than heavy, ancient and impossibly tough. Tme and time again with primaris marines, we've seen stuff with broad appeal, rather than keeping in line with classic 40k visuals, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 13:14:07


Post by: Breton


 deotrims 16th wrote:

Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.
it’s not a Dread. It’s a sentinel. It’s not a critically injured dude in a life support sarcophagus, he’s just a pilot.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 13:17:49


Post by: Kaiyanwang


I agree, the legs are off. Not by much, the models are not actually ruined.
But I think the proportion are better in the new Chaos Marines. Still taller than the old "squatters", but better than primaris.

I think future models and additional bits can "recover" the old aesthetics, I am actually curious to see the direction GW wants to follow. The new CSM keep the old 50% Black Knight, 40% demonic/fallen angel 10% thug aesthetics and posing of old. The new primaris completely lost the old "knights/paladins in space" (space wolves and white scars excluded, of course) and do not always handle the weapons as if they are wearing power armor. There is something "off" right there, too.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 13:48:51


Post by: The Newman


secretForge wrote:
I really like the model, but I'm probably going to enclose the pilot and head cannon it as a light dreadnought.

Even just an enclosed cockpit with a lot of sensors would have been preferable to the roll-cage. I don't hate it, but I'm not thrilled either.

I suspect it will grow on me once I have the actual model in front of me though.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 13:50:25


Post by: Strg Alt


Too long legs?


Reason why this is the case is that inside the suit are not SM to be found but long-legged female dancers from the Crazy Horse. Everybody now can take a breath as female marines have finally arrived.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 16:23:38


Post by: Nazrak


posermcbogus wrote:The long legs is an interesting observation, and got me thinking a bit about why I'm not a fan of the Primaris range.

I really like the Hajime Katoki Gundam designs, and he is famous for giving his mobile suits, and even revising older mobile suits, to have long legs. I quite like this, as it gives the Gundam a nice, sleek feel, and I think it helps create a sense of movement and action when you pose them, especially for models 'in-flight'.
But I think It clashes with the classic aesthetic of space marines. For a long time, marines have been depicted as like human tanks. The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.
Despite their radically increase stature, primaris marines don't feel like their reflect that sense of weight. Their proportions have been adjusted to match the size of their pauldrons, and so that sense of heaviness is reduced. On top of that, I feel like some of the armor plates have been added arbitrarily, just to use up space and fill out areas where details have been lost due to upscaling. I think this also takes away from the original design, as it gives them a more utilitarian look - something taken to really silly extents with the newer kits - and less of the clunky weight of the classic design.
In the grand scheme of things, this, plus the abandoning of the skull-invoking mk VII helmet makes them blend into the amorphous mass of power-armored sci-fi suits. Iron man, Master Chief, the various troopers of Star Wars, the list is long.
Classic marines looked heavy. They looked ultra-reinforced. They were bigger than a man, but they looked like, somewhere inside, there were large men, soaking up fire. The shock troops of a war-torn, decaying empire. Primaris look a bit like any power suited sci-fi guys, and only seem 'bigger' because the models are literally larger. That weightiness, that sense of bulk has disappeared, along with some of their uniqueness.

The same can be said for the new drednoughts. I LOVE the classic dred design. Again, in a pop-culture universe dominated by sleek war machines, and great walking mobile fortresses, the dred feels old. It feels like it clanks about the battlefield, ancient pilot's grisly remains fused inside - it's brilliant and unique, and totally 40k - I particularly like the idea that some chapters actively fear being interred in drednoughts, that they're last-option solutions to a crisis in experienced manpower. By giving them sleek fingers, and longer legs with the new primaris dreds, GW have again moved towards a more unremarkable aesthetic. I can see why some people might like the new rollcage dred, as it pretty explicitly invokes Aliens, a movie I also love. But it has no place in the space marine line. It feels sleek, mobile, and light, rather than heavy, ancient and impossibly tough. Tme and time again with primaris marines, we've seen stuff with broad appeal, rather than keeping in line with classic 40k visuals, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.


Wonderfully put; couldn't agree more with any of this.

Kaiyanwang wrote:I agree, the legs are off. Not by much, the models are not actually ruined.
But I think the proportion are better in the new Chaos Marines. Still taller than the old "squatters", but better than primaris.

Totally. I'm quite annoyed we're unlikely to see Classic Marines proportioned like the new CSMs (other than the ones in the Space Marine Heroes set, which I think are basically the same as the new Chaos lads).


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 16:28:25


Post by: Desubot


Dudeface wrote:
Crispy78 wrote:
YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
That would by why this is based off the new redemptor chassis rather than some of the older stuff.


Yeah, and I'm not really seeing a satisfying enough reason for the Imperium suddenly being able to make a brand new flavour of dreadnought *but* not any of the old ones, other than that GW wanted a new flavour dreadnought to be able to sell alongside their new flavour of space marines...


Cawl breaking rules and inventing names is the reason. He wants new technologies he's dreaming up with his stamp on, i.e. the redemptor is born. Why bother re-learning the tech of an older model with lower power output/armour etc.when you can go full on American "bigger is better" on it.


I seriously still wish there was more backlash / civil war on that.

uprooting 10k years worth of dogma.

not that its not needed.

there is almost no reason to get new marine stuff if all it is is a small modification to an old kit. GW has to sell kits and making people buy actual new stuff was the right way to run it.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 16:33:47


Post by: skchsan


 Desubot wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Crispy78 wrote:
YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
That would by why this is based off the new redemptor chassis rather than some of the older stuff.


Yeah, and I'm not really seeing a satisfying enough reason for the Imperium suddenly being able to make a brand new flavour of dreadnought *but* not any of the old ones, other than that GW wanted a new flavour dreadnought to be able to sell alongside their new flavour of space marines...


Cawl breaking rules and inventing names is the reason. He wants new technologies he's dreaming up with his stamp on, i.e. the redemptor is born. Why bother re-learning the tech of an older model with lower power output/armour etc.when you can go full on American "bigger is better" on it.


I seriously still wish there was more backlash / civil war on that.

uprooting 10k years worth of dogma.

not that its not needed.

there is almost no reason to get new marine stuff if all it is is a small modification to an old kit. GW has to sell kits and making people buy actual new stuff was the right way to run it.
I feel like the right way of doing things was to do what they've been doing all along on running their business - provide huge power creep to specific units to push sales for existing range.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 16:40:46


Post by: Desubot


 skchsan wrote:
I feel like the right way of doing things was to do what they've been doing all along on running their business - provide huge power creep to specific units to push sales for existing range.


No.

I dont think staying the course straight into the pooper is a good idea.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 16:48:27


Post by: Insectum7


 posermcbogus wrote:
The long legs is an interesting observation, and got me thinking a bit about why I'm not a fan of the Primaris range.

I really like the Hajime Katoki Gundam designs, and he is famous for giving his mobile suits, and even revising older mobile suits, to have long legs. I quite like this, as it gives the Gundam a nice, sleek feel, and I think it helps create a sense of movement and action when you pose them, especially for models 'in-flight'.
But I think It clashes with the classic aesthetic of space marines. For a long time, marines have been depicted as like human tanks. The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.
Despite their radically increase stature, primaris marines don't feel like their reflect that sense of weight. Their proportions have been adjusted to match the size of their pauldrons, and so that sense of heaviness is reduced. On top of that, I feel like some of the armor plates have been added arbitrarily, just to use up space and fill out areas where details have been lost due to upscaling. I think this also takes away from the original design, as it gives them a more utilitarian look - something taken to really silly extents with the newer kits - and less of the clunky weight of the classic design.
In the grand scheme of things, this, plus the abandoning of the skull-invoking mk VII helmet makes them blend into the amorphous mass of power-armored sci-fi suits. Iron man, Master Chief, the various troopers of Star Wars, the list is long.
Classic marines looked heavy. They looked ultra-reinforced. They were bigger than a man, but they looked like, somewhere inside, there were large men, soaking up fire. The shock troops of a war-torn, decaying empire. Primaris look a bit like any power suited sci-fi guys, and only seem 'bigger' because the models are literally larger. That weightiness, that sense of bulk has disappeared, along with some of their uniqueness.

The same can be said for the new drednoughts. I LOVE the classic dred design. Again, in a pop-culture universe dominated by sleek war machines, and great walking mobile fortresses, the dred feels old. It feels like it clanks about the battlefield, ancient pilot's grisly remains fused inside - it's brilliant and unique, and totally 40k - I particularly like the idea that some chapters actively fear being interred in drednoughts, that they're last-option solutions to a crisis in experienced manpower. By giving them sleek fingers, and longer legs with the new primaris dreds, GW have again moved towards a more unremarkable aesthetic. I can see why some people might like the new rollcage dred, as it pretty explicitly invokes Aliens, a movie I also love. But it has no place in the space marine line. It feels sleek, mobile, and light, rather than heavy, ancient and impossibly tough. Tme and time again with primaris marines, we've seen stuff with broad appeal, rather than keeping in line with classic 40k visuals, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.


That's a good break down of it, yeah.

If I were to sum up my impressions, the new Primaris look more heroic, but I prefer more grittiness and old-world. The old squat stance is marines advancing into fire, but keeping their guard up.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 17:02:19


Post by: skchsan


 Desubot wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
I feel like the right way of doing things was to do what they've been doing all along on running their business - provide huge power creep to specific units to push sales for existing range.


No.

I dont think staying the course straight into the pooper is a good idea.
I would've been more inclined to replace my marine range (albeit begrudgingly) if they were direct upgraded models and not whole new units. But granularity doesn't seem to be GW's strong suit.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 17:13:55


Post by: CapRichard


I prefer the new aestetic, it makes them a stark contrast with everything else on the table. I have an all primaris force in the making, and it looks dashing compared to my Admech or old Marines.

The legs have a role to play. Old Marines, I had trouble understanding how they could even move, especially the boxed dread. Seeing them redesigned in the videogame just so they could animate them in a proper way made me laugh too much. Now the redemptor is imposing.

Still, I understand how they cannot be liked.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/07 17:16:34


Post by: Desubot


 skchsan wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
I feel like the right way of doing things was to do what they've been doing all along on running their business - provide huge power creep to specific units to push sales for existing range.


No.

I dont think staying the course straight into the pooper is a good idea.
I would've been more inclined to replace my marine range (albeit begrudgingly) if they were direct upgraded models and not whole new units. But granularity doesn't seem to be GW's strong suit.


You really think so? how many old bloods you think would of bought new devistator kits or tactical marine squads when they already have those things in spades. or just gotten the new shiny weapons off 3rd party or ebay sellers.

it really doesnt make GW any real money and they are still stuck with old stock.

its a bad business decision to do so.



Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 02:39:02


Post by: Ginjitzu


 posermcbogus wrote:
The long legs is an interesting observation, and got me thinking a bit about why I'm not a fan of the Primaris range.

I really like the Hajime Katoki Gundam designs, and he is famous for giving his mobile suits, and even revising older mobile suits, to have long legs. I quite like this, as it gives the Gundam a nice, sleek feel, and I think it helps create a sense of movement and action when you pose them, especially for models 'in-flight'.
But I think It clashes with the classic aesthetic of space marines. For a long time, marines have been depicted as like human tanks. The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.
Despite their radically increase stature, primaris marines don't feel like their reflect that sense of weight. Their proportions have been adjusted to match the size of their pauldrons, and so that sense of heaviness is reduced. On top of that, I feel like some of the armor plates have been added arbitrarily, just to use up space and fill out areas where details have been lost due to upscaling. I think this also takes away from the original design, as it gives them a more utilitarian look - something taken to really silly extents with the newer kits - and less of the clunky weight of the classic design.
In the grand scheme of things, this, plus the abandoning of the skull-invoking mk VII helmet makes them blend into the amorphous mass of power-armored sci-fi suits. Iron man, Master Chief, the various troopers of Star Wars, the list is long.
Classic marines looked heavy. They looked ultra-reinforced. They were bigger than a man, but they looked like, somewhere inside, there were large men, soaking up fire. The shock troops of a war-torn, decaying empire. Primaris look a bit like any power suited sci-fi guys, and only seem 'bigger' because the models are literally larger. That weightiness, that sense of bulk has disappeared, along with some of their uniqueness.

The same can be said for the new drednoughts. I LOVE the classic dred design. Again, in a pop-culture universe dominated by sleek war machines, and great walking mobile fortresses, the dred feels old. It feels like it clanks about the battlefield, ancient pilot's grisly remains fused inside - it's brilliant and unique, and totally 40k - I particularly like the idea that some chapters actively fear being interred in drednoughts, that they're last-option solutions to a crisis in experienced manpower. By giving them sleek fingers, and longer legs with the new primaris dreds, GW have again moved towards a more unremarkable aesthetic. I can see why some people might like the new rollcage dred, as it pretty explicitly invokes Aliens, a movie I also love. But it has no place in the space marine line. It feels sleek, mobile, and light, rather than heavy, ancient and impossibly tough. Tme and time again with primaris marines, we've seen stuff with broad appeal, rather than keeping in line with classic 40k visuals, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.
This is a great post, worthy of preservation.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 02:42:55


Post by: Peregrine


 Ishagu wrote:
If Guardsmen can have walkers so can Astartes. That's all there is to it.


The Sentinel is a light scouting unit for an expendable driver, it makes sense for it to be lightly armored.

The new totally-not-a-dread is a heavy walker with significant armor, it just has a giant "shoot me here" sign with no armor for the driver and a much less expendable marine at risk. And that's not even counting the stupidity of heavy bolter pistols held in a powerfist...


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 02:47:18


Post by: BrianDavion


 Peregrine wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
If Guardsmen can have walkers so can Astartes. That's all there is to it.


The Sentinel is a light scouting unit for an expendable driver, it makes sense for it to be lightly armored.

The new totally-not-a-dread is a heavy walker with significant armor, it just has a giant "shoot me here" sign with no armor for the driver and a much less expendable marine at risk. And that's not even counting the stupidity of heavy bolter pistols held in a powerfist...


rule of cool man, chain swords are also a dumb design


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 02:48:13


Post by: Peregrine


 posermcbogus wrote:
The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.


Disagree. Old marines don't feel heavy, they feel deformed. They look like exactly what they are: deformed anatomically impossible suits of armor made by people who don't understand how human proportions work. It was a little more excusable in 1980 when everyone sucked at sculpting, GW's designers included, and you had a bunch of vaguely marine-shaped blobs in awkward poses designed to work within the limits of very basic metal casting tools. But unfortunately when GW moved to plastic they tried to keep the new kits in line with those failures instead of starting over with a clean slate. Primaris marines, despite their idiotic fluff, do a much better job of capturing the space marine aesthetic but without the terrible sculpting errors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
rule of cool man, chain swords are also a dumb design


Rule of cool only goes so far. Chainswords are properly grimdark and look cool. The new walker looks like a cheap happy meal toy or one of those Russian not-40k ripoffs, there's nothing cool about it.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 02:50:22


Post by: TheCustomLime


You'd think they would at least put some bullet-resistant glass or an armor plate with a visor in front of the guy so he isn't a walking missile launcher target.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 02:56:09


Post by: BrianDavion


 Peregrine wrote:
 posermcbogus wrote:
The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.


Disagree. Old marines don't feel heavy, they feel deformed. They look like exactly what they are: deformed anatomically impossible suits of armor made by people who don't understand how human proportions work. It was a little more excusable in 1980 when everyone sucked at sculpting, GW's designers included, and you had a bunch of vaguely marine-shaped blobs in awkward poses designed to work within the limits of very basic metal casting tools. But unfortunately when GW moved to plastic they tried to keep the new kits in line with those failures instead of starting over with a clean slate. Primaris marines, despite their idiotic fluff, do a much better job of capturing the space marine aesthetic but without the terrible sculpting errors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
rule of cool man, chain swords are also a dumb design


Rule of cool only goes so far. Chainswords are properly grimdark and look cool. The new walker looks like a cheap happy meal toy or one of those Russian not-40k ripoffs, there's nothing cool about it.


other people disagree and think it's awesome, but I suppose only Peegrines opinion counts.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 02:57:35


Post by: Peregrine


BrianDavion wrote:
other people disagree and think it's awesome, but I suppose only Peegrines opinion counts.


I guess only their opinion counts when you're posting "rule of cool" without any disclaimer that it's only one opinion and all other opinions are also valid?


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 04:07:11


Post by: Insectum7


^In this case Peregrene is right. It really does look like a happy meal toy.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 04:22:39


Post by: Hellebore


 TheCustomLime wrote:
You'd think they would at least put some bullet-resistant glass or an armor plate with a visor in front of the guy so he isn't a walking missile launcher target.


Far be it from me to defend it, but it's designed the same way the land speeder is designed.

Marine armour is as tough as the vehicle's armour.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 04:27:47


Post by: Apple Peel


 Peregrine wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
If Guardsmen can have walkers so can Astartes. That's all there is to it.


The Sentinel is a light scouting unit for an expendable driver, it makes sense for it to be lightly armored.

The new totally-not-a-dread is a heavy walker with significant armor, it just has a giant "shoot me here" sign with no armor for the driver and a much less expendable marine at risk. And that's not even counting the stupidity of heavy bolter pistols held in a powerfist...


They seem to be doing a silly throw-back to the old Space marine armor is good enough a la speeders, so not having an additional armor plate would allow for reduced weight. We know when a Sentinel is armored, it loses the ability to Go Recon, it’s Scout Walker rule, and a toughness. As they have explained, since it can infiltrate, that means it’s an ambush mech. Better field-of-view allows better capability to see targets.

Do I agree that “Marine armor is good enough” is silly? Yes, but it’s established. One could also reason that should the Invictor mech be disabled (although I don’t think the marine will get a Canis Rex pilot ejection rule), it would be much easier to remove the pilot or for the pilot to make an escape.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 04:37:52


Post by: Ginjitzu


From a fluff point of view, I wonder if there is any difference in control capability between the pilot using those joysticks and a Redemptor "pilot" interred and connected presumably through a neural connection?


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 04:40:29


Post by: bort


I don't mind the new Primaris proportions, it's more that they look so much higher tech than classic marine. Old marines were heavy and blocky. I really liked that for the power armor and terminators. Dreads were a bit too boxy for my tastes, but still looked good and fit in. The new armor looks more like fitted suits and mechs. I like their appearances in a vacuum, but not when sitting beside old marine sculpts (except that roll cage, give me an armored cockpit anyday).

The only Primaris models I really dislike are the Suppressors. Those harnesses just don't look right, don't look Marine-y, and don't give good flying poses.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 04:52:42


Post by: posermcbogus


 Peregrine wrote:
 posermcbogus wrote:
The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.


Disagree. Old marines don't feel heavy, they feel deformed. They look like exactly what they are: deformed anatomically impossible suits of armor made by people who don't understand how human proportions work. It was a little more excusable in 1980 when everyone sucked at sculpting, GW's designers included, and you had a bunch of vaguely marine-shaped blobs in awkward poses designed to work within the limits of very basic metal casting tools. But unfortunately when GW moved to plastic they tried to keep the new kits in line with those failures instead of starting over with a clean slate. Primaris marines, despite their idiotic fluff, do a much better job of capturing the space marine aesthetic but without the terrible sculpting errors.


Gonna have to disagree there. I think the slightly-off proportions of heroic scale suit classic space marines down to the ground. It really invokes the sillier early artwork, but also is very practical in terms of tabletop identification (and, I would say, brand identification). The oversized head, shoulders and weapons allow one to quickly identify loadout, chapter, and project a personality onto the figure. With the primaris marines, the pauldrons look smaller, reducing the ease of chapter identification, while the sudden proportionality of the weapons means that quickly identifying the deluge of new bolter-type weapons is a lot trickier off the bat.
With heroic scale, GW had something unique, and very distinctive. It added a bit of goofy-ness to an otherwise very bleak setting, and works nicely on the tabletop. While there's nothing wrong with better proportioned kits of late - DKoK, Admech, GSC etc. - I think heroic proportions worked for GW, and am not sure why they felt the need to do away with them. Particular when, with the HH resins, those issues with stance really melted away.
If ya wanna go down that road, I'll wager that none of the primaris apologists ever particularly consider Aggressors or Gravis armor when talking about 'improved proportions', while intercessors' heads are too small, their waists too thin, their thighs too thick, their chests too barrel shaped, their shoulders too broad and their arms too short - could a primaris marine touch his own elbow? Their was a deliberate, measured silliness with heroic scale classic marines. It's clear with the new wave of tacticool marines that GW are no longer making silly designs deliberately, but in an attempt to appeal seemingly to whoever still plays call of duty.

Going a bit further, because I've just looked at the new stuff today, and I'm SALTY AS ALL HELL - what is up with the stealth marines? Why is GW pushing the covert ops stuff so hard? You have a terrifying, what, 9-foot tall now? superhuman, brainwashed into a murder machine, an angel of death used to subjugate entire galaxies, decked out in ceramite and proud of their chapter to their dying breath. What are they doing sneaking about, and using sound-supression. To an extent, I don't mind ravenguard/Deathwatch sneakiness, because it culminates in a sudden burst of calculated, strategic violence, and works within the character of shock-and-awe, strength through sheer overwhelming strength. Sound dampening, camo-wearing, sneaky sneaky marines don't sit well with me. Leave scurrying around to the scouts or the guardsmen. A marine should face his enemy, scream at him until his teeth shake, advance into his bullets before putting a bolter round into his head.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 04:55:14


Post by: Peregrine


 Apple Peel wrote:
They seem to be doing a silly throw-back to the old Space marine armor is good enough a la speeders, so not having an additional armor plate would allow for reduced weight.


That doesn't make any sense because the rest of the walker is still armored. The open cockpit removes a relatively small amount of armor in exchange for a massive weak point, since even if the driver won't be killed by a hit it's definitely got a bunch of vulnerable controls systems and angles to get a shot in behind the armor plates and such. It reads much less as "light scout walker that sacrifices armor for speed" and more like a $5 toy that should have a bunch of marketing hype about how cool it is that you can open the cockpit and put your action figures inside. It's a design and everyone involved should be ashamed of it.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 05:05:08


Post by: Apple Peel


 Peregrine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
They seem to be doing a silly throw-back to the old Space marine armor is good enough a la speeders, so not having an additional armor plate would allow for reduced weight.


That doesn't make any sense because the rest of the walker is still armored. The open cockpit removes a relatively small amount of armor in exchange for a massive weak point, since even if the driver won't be killed by a hit it's definitely got a bunch of vulnerable controls systems and angles to get a shot in behind the armor plates and such. It reads much less as "light scout walker that sacrifices armor for speed" and more like a $5 toy that should have a bunch of marketing hype about how cool it is that you can open the cockpit and put your action figures inside. It's a design and everyone involved should be ashamed of it.

Are you trying to tell me that the Invictor is just as well armored as the Redemptor? I won’t argue design aesthetic, as that differs from person to person.

[Thumb - 51CADA38-5140-490A-828A-114A8047AB03.png]


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 05:12:48


Post by: Peregrine


 Apple Peel wrote:
Are you trying to tell me that the Invictor is just as well armored as the Redemptor? I won’t argue design aesthetic, as that differs from person to person.


No, it's not as well armored, but it still has a lot of armor plates. It makes zero sense to put armor on random parts of the walker and leave other vital areas completely exposed.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 05:17:33


Post by: Apple Peel


 Peregrine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
Are you trying to tell me that the Invictor is just as well armored as the Redemptor? I won’t argue design aesthetic, as that differs from person to person.


No, it's not as well armored, but it still has a lot of armor plates. It makes zero sense to put armor on random parts of the walker and leave other vital areas completely exposed.

Reduced weight and a smaller profile. It’s not supposed to be a frontline brawler, but an ambush mech. It performs the job, hopefully successful, and probably bugs out afterwards.
Besides, looking at the picture, there is not too much vital stuff being exposed in comparison. The spots where limbs attached to joints and such are covered. The ankles didn’t really change. The thigh area is mostly solid metal anyway.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 05:53:56


Post by: BrianDavion


I suspect it'll have less wounds and a lower toughness then the redemptor. if you look at it it loos like they took the basic redemptor frame, stuck a cockpit on it (realisticly it should not work as smoothly as a dread without the MIU) and cut down the armor plating to over cover key areas such as joints etc


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 06:34:07


Post by: Ginjitzu


 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
They seem to be doing a silly throw-back to the old Space marine armor is good enough a la speeders, so not having an additional armor plate would allow for reduced weight.


That doesn't make any sense because the rest of the walker is still armored. The open cockpit removes a relatively small amount of armor in exchange for a massive weak point, since even if the driver won't be killed by a hit it's definitely got a bunch of vulnerable controls systems and angles to get a shot in behind the armor plates and such. It reads much less as "light scout walker that sacrifices armor for speed" and more like a $5 toy that should have a bunch of marketing hype about how cool it is that you can open the cockpit and put your action figures inside. It's a design and everyone involved should be ashamed of it.

Are you trying to tell me that the Invictor is just as well armored as the Redemptor? I won’t argue design aesthetic, as that differs from person to person.
Where's that size comparison come from? I don't recall seeing anything like that on the Community website.

Also, I'm with Peregrine on this: why are the shoulders armoured while the pilot is exposed? By what rationale are shoulder joints more vital to its function than the pilot who controls said joints? It would make a lot more sense if the entire chassis was exposed.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 07:08:33


Post by: AngryAngel80


 Insectum7 wrote:
^In this case Peregrene is right. It really does look like a happy meal toy.


It's hard for me to hate on the design when so much in the game is just goofy looking, from the flying shoe speeder to the wolf snout flyer that looks like little more than a cargo container with guns and engines in space ! Really you could fill the pages with odd design calls. The flying cathedral DA speeder, teen wolves, tanks from WW1, higgins landing craft, etc etc forever.

It really ends up being do you like this brand of goofy from model to model. Which is always an opinion issue. Though I think the new walker is straight outta the Matrix, that marine must have just been defending Zion !! Damn machines won't be using my chapter as batteries, we gotta hold the line for Neo !!


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 07:31:40


Post by: Apple Peel


 Ginjitzu wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
They seem to be doing a silly throw-back to the old Space marine armor is good enough a la speeders, so not having an additional armor plate would allow for reduced weight.


That doesn't make any sense because the rest of the walker is still armored. The open cockpit removes a relatively small amount of armor in exchange for a massive weak point, since even if the driver won't be killed by a hit it's definitely got a bunch of vulnerable controls systems and angles to get a shot in behind the armor plates and such. It reads much less as "light scout walker that sacrifices armor for speed" and more like a $5 toy that should have a bunch of marketing hype about how cool it is that you can open the cockpit and put your action figures inside. It's a design and everyone involved should be ashamed of it.

Are you trying to tell me that the Invictor is just as well armored as the Redemptor? I won’t argue design aesthetic, as that differs from person to person.
Where's that size comparison come from? I don't recall seeing anything like that on the Community website.

Also, I'm with Peregrine on this: why are the shoulders armoured while the pilot is exposed? By what rationale are shoulder joints more vital to its function than the pilot who controls said joints? It would make a lot more sense if the entire chassis was exposed.

I just pulled a pic from google that had both in it.

If you notice, all the areas that either house engine type things (the bulk of the torso/chest) or areas responsible for a lot of directional articulations (shoulders, knees, wrists, groin) are armored.

Again, GW is falling back on “Marine armor is good enough.” That’s why there is no protection. The power armor is good enough. They’ve been doing that for years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you shoot either of the shoulders and it’s unarmored, the arms would probably fall off or go limp. Same with the legs. Then it would be useless.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 07:39:35


Post by: =Angel=


AngryAngel80 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^In this case Peregrene is right. It really does look like a happy meal toy.


It's hard for me to hate on the design when so much in the game is just goofy looking, from the flying shoe speeder to the wolf snout flyer that looks like little more than a cargo container with guns and engines in space ! Really you could fill the pages with odd design calls. The flying cathedral DA speeder, teen wolves, tanks from WW1, higgins landing craft, etc etc forever.

It really ends up being do you like this brand of goofy from model to model. Which is always an opinion issue. Though I think the new walker is straight outta the Matrix, that marine must have just been defending Zion !! Damn machines won't be using my chapter as batteries, we gotta hold the line for Neo !!


The model line having some stinkers is not an excuse for further stinkers. Almost everything you mentioned were shoehorned in to bulk out a model line.

There were serviceable wulfen models from 3rd ed that could have had an update rather then the complete redesign we got. The Marines already had Thunderhawks and didn't need smaller transports from a lore standpoint- but Geedubs wanted to cram fliers into standard games at 28mm. The new abominable DA specific units ... the new Primaris range are a continuation of these errors.

Jamming aerials and external targeters over marine armour makes the armour itself look more low tech than we've been told it is. They wanted to visually communicate 'extra comms' and 'extra targetting' and executed this in the most visually obvious way possible on models that alreadty have problems.

Compare this to the Skitarri- with decades of mechanicus imagery to draw from, they got the core troops to look very nice. The only criticism you normally hear is that the robes are a bit starched. When GW gives us something that's been in the lore for a while and that artists may have had a crack at, they generally put out good stuff. When they try to fill codex entries, We get dreadknights and planes with churches bolted on. When they ignore codex entries that already exist and double up - we get centurions and scout dreads eating the lunch of terminators and landspeeders.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 08:10:42


Post by: Slipspace


 Apple Peel wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
They seem to be doing a silly throw-back to the old Space marine armor is good enough a la speeders, so not having an additional armor plate would allow for reduced weight.


That doesn't make any sense because the rest of the walker is still armored. The open cockpit removes a relatively small amount of armor in exchange for a massive weak point, since even if the driver won't be killed by a hit it's definitely got a bunch of vulnerable controls systems and angles to get a shot in behind the armor plates and such. It reads much less as "light scout walker that sacrifices armor for speed" and more like a $5 toy that should have a bunch of marketing hype about how cool it is that you can open the cockpit and put your action figures inside. It's a design and everyone involved should be ashamed of it.

Are you trying to tell me that the Invictor is just as well armored as the Redemptor? I won’t argue design aesthetic, as that differs from person to person.
Where's that size comparison come from? I don't recall seeing anything like that on the Community website.

Also, I'm with Peregrine on this: why are the shoulders armoured while the pilot is exposed? By what rationale are shoulder joints more vital to its function than the pilot who controls said joints? It would make a lot more sense if the entire chassis was exposed.

I just pulled a pic from google that had both in it.

If you notice, all the areas that either house engine type things (the bulk of the torso/chest) or areas responsible for a lot of directional articulations (shoulders, knees, wrists, groin) are armored.

Again, GW is falling back on “Marine armor is good enough.” That’s why there is no protection. The power armor is good enough. They’ve been doing that for years.


The main problem I have with that argument is the presence of joysticks for the pilot. Apart from being a really dumb control system for a walker (seriously, how is he independently controlling both arms and the body-mounted weapons with a single stick and throttle?) the controls are now exposed to any random bit of shrapnel or stray bullet. It's all very well saying the pilot's armour will protect him from that sort of attack but he's not going to last very long when his mech is sitting there immobile because the exposed control systems got dinged by lucky shot from a lasgun.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 08:12:14


Post by: Not Online!!!


 posermcbogus wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 posermcbogus wrote:
The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.


Disagree. Old marines don't feel heavy, they feel deformed. They look like exactly what they are: deformed anatomically impossible suits of armor made by people who don't understand how human proportions work. It was a little more excusable in 1980 when everyone sucked at sculpting, GW's designers included, and you had a bunch of vaguely marine-shaped blobs in awkward poses designed to work within the limits of very basic metal casting tools. But unfortunately when GW moved to plastic they tried to keep the new kits in line with those failures instead of starting over with a clean slate. Primaris marines, despite their idiotic fluff, do a much better job of capturing the space marine aesthetic but without the terrible sculpting errors.


Gonna have to disagree there. I think the slightly-off proportions of heroic scale suit classic space marines down to the ground. It really invokes the sillier early artwork, but also is very practical in terms of tabletop identification (and, I would say, brand identification). The oversized head, shoulders and weapons allow one to quickly identify loadout, chapter, and project a personality onto the figure. With the primaris marines, the pauldrons look smaller, reducing the ease of chapter identification, while the sudden proportionality of the weapons means that quickly identifying the deluge of new bolter-type weapons is a lot trickier off the bat.
With heroic scale, GW had something unique, and very distinctive. It added a bit of goofy-ness to an otherwise very bleak setting, and works nicely on the tabletop. While there's nothing wrong with better proportioned kits of late - DKoK, Admech, GSC etc. - I think heroic proportions worked for GW, and am not sure why they felt the need to do away with them. Particular when, with the HH resins, those issues with stance really melted away.
If ya wanna go down that road, I'll wager that none of the primaris apologists ever particularly consider Aggressors or Gravis armor when talking about 'improved proportions', while intercessors' heads are too small, their waists too thin, their thighs too thick, their chests too barrel shaped, their shoulders too broad and their arms too short - could a primaris marine touch his own elbow? Their was a deliberate, measured silliness with heroic scale classic marines. It's clear with the new wave of tacticool marines that GW are no longer making silly designs deliberately, but in an attempt to appeal seemingly to whoever still plays call of duty.

Going a bit further, because I've just looked at the new stuff today, and I'm SALTY AS ALL HELL - what is up with the stealth marines? Why is GW pushing the covert ops stuff so hard? You have a terrifying, what, 9-foot tall now? superhuman, brainwashed into a murder machine, an angel of death used to subjugate entire galaxies, decked out in ceramite and proud of their chapter to their dying breath. What are they doing sneaking about, and using sound-supression. To an extent, I don't mind ravenguard/Deathwatch sneakiness, because it culminates in a sudden burst of calculated, strategic violence, and works within the character of shock-and-awe, strength through sheer overwhelming strength. Sound dampening, camo-wearing, sneaky sneaky marines don't sit well with me. Leave scurrying around to the scouts or the guardsmen. A marine should face his enemy, scream at him until his teeth shake, advance into his bullets before putting a bolter round into his head.



Also some of the spec ops stuff is just bad. I mean look at the gun from the minecarrying corpselover and tell me that visor looks good.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 08:29:58


Post by: Stormonu


They ought to give the not-dreadnought Explodes! rules on a 4+ (with a 3" range, 1 mortal wound), but if it doesn't explode the marine inside can step out and be used as a single figure w/ heavy bolter.

Overall though, I could do without the model entirely.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 08:36:24


Post by: Ishagu


 Peregrine wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
If Guardsmen can have walkers so can Astartes. That's all there is to it.


The Sentinel is a light scouting unit for an expendable driver, it makes sense for it to be lightly armored.

The new totally-not-a-dread is a heavy walker with significant armor, it just has a giant "shoot me here" sign with no armor for the driver and a much less expendable marine at risk. And that's not even counting the stupidity of heavy bolter pistols held in a powerfist...


Except it's not a front-line vehicles so your complaint is redundant.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 09:04:20


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Ishagu wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
If Guardsmen can have walkers so can Astartes. That's all there is to it.


The Sentinel is a light scouting unit for an expendable driver, it makes sense for it to be lightly armored.

The new totally-not-a-dread is a heavy walker with significant armor, it just has a giant "shoot me here" sign with no armor for the driver and a much less expendable marine at risk. And that's not even counting the stupidity of heavy bolter pistols held in a powerfist...


Except it's not a front-line vehicles so your complaint is redundant.


Scusme but if it is not a frontline vehicle, wtf bother to put a gun on it?


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 09:12:02


Post by: Ishagu


Because it's an anti infantry attack walker that flanks enemies.

There are more flawed designs than this, you need to get over it or simply ignore it. There are also real military vehicles that offer no protection for their drivers in use today.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 09:32:11


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Ishagu wrote:
Because it's an anti infantry attack walker that flanks enemies.

There are more flawed designs than this, you need to get over it or simply ignore it. There are also real military vehicles that offer no protection for their drivers in use today.


A flanking vehicle to go for combat scenarios is not a frontline vehicle?

Tell me, Is a STUG III or a STUH also not a combat vehicle because it mostly lay in ambush?

And yes a Jeep offers maybee no protection but that is mostly due to SPEED beeing the idea behind it.
Even motorized infantry started armoring their Camions. (btw how we got the IFV, and by extension this piece of gak, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mowag_Duro which is hillariously tight and if uparmored has a dangerous tendency to flip over in curves.)


This vehicle is dumb even by 40k standards.



Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 09:48:56


Post by: =Angel=


 Ishagu wrote:
Because it's an anti infantry attack walker that flanks enemies.

There are more flawed designs than this, you need to get over it or simply ignore it. There are also real military vehicles that offer no protection for their drivers in use today.


Marine bikes and landspeeders, which rely on speed and are not designed to tank hits, still offer protection for the operators. The marine driver sits behind a shield in both cases, with angled armour all around. Even the imperial guard sentinel has the pilot elevated in an armoured cab so that small arms fire coming from ground level will have a hard time striking him.

Real military vehicles that offer little/no protection are not designed to be shot at, and are deployed accordingly.

This scoutnaught gets caught in any kind of blast and the joystick and throttle are shredded, even if the marine is fine. If it was lugging around a whirlwind missile battery and was designed to be far away from the front, firing indirectly- it would still be competing with the tracked whirlwind but whatever. Its armed with machineguns, which are designed to kill infantry, but it looks vulnerable to light arms and grenadelaunchers. It is nonsensical. Why would you ever use this and not an upgunned scout speeder?


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 09:52:09


Post by: Not Online!!!


 =Angel= wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
Because it's an anti infantry attack walker that flanks enemies.

There are more flawed designs than this, you need to get over it or simply ignore it. There are also real military vehicles that offer no protection for their drivers in use today.


Marine bikes and landspeeders, which rely on speed and are not designed to tank hits, still offer protection for the operators. The marine driver sits behind a shield in both cases, with angled armour all around. Even the imperial guard sentinel has the pilot elevated in an armoured cab so that small arms fire coming from ground level will have a hard time striking him.

Real military vehicles that offer little/no protection are not designed to be shot at, and are deployed accordingly.

This scoutnaught gets caught in any kind of blast and the joystick and throttle are shredded, even if the marine is fine. If it was lugging around a whirlwind missile battery and was designed to be far away from the front, firing indirectly- it would still be competing with the tracked whirlwind but whatever. Its armed with machineguns, which are designed to kill infantry, but it looks vulnerable to light arms and grenadelaunchers. It is nonsensical. Why would you ever use this and not an upgunned scout speeder?


It wouldn't even make sense for beeing amobile piece or artillery.
Counter battery fire is a thing. And when your Artillery can get shredded by a HE / Shrappnel round then it basically is worthless.
Otoh the whirlwind atleast has some armour.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 10:31:11


Post by: Ishagu


Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
Because it's an anti infantry attack walker that flanks enemies.

There are more flawed designs than this, you need to get over it or simply ignore it. There are also real military vehicles that offer no protection for their drivers in use today.


A flanking vehicle to go for combat scenarios is not a frontline vehicle?

Tell me, Is a STUG III or a STUH also not a combat vehicle because it mostly lay in ambush?

And yes a Jeep offers maybee no protection but that is mostly due to SPEED beeing the idea behind it.
Even motorized infantry started armoring their Camions. (btw how we got the IFV, and by extension this piece of gak, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mowag_Duro which is hillariously tight and if uparmored has a dangerous tendency to flip over in curves.)


This vehicle is dumb even by 40k standards.



How many heavy, ranged weapons are used in close combat? The pilot is protected by power armour.

If you think something isn't realistic and thus have issues with it, you are in the wrong hobby.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. I don't appreciate the spamming of topics with constant crying and whinging. Some have made it clear they don't like it - good for them. Everyone who feels the same can move on.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 10:35:03


Post by: BrianDavion


 Ishagu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
Because it's an anti infantry attack walker that flanks enemies.

There are more flawed designs than this, you need to get over it or simply ignore it. There are also real military vehicles that offer no protection for their drivers in use today.


A flanking vehicle to go for combat scenarios is not a frontline vehicle?

Tell me, Is a STUG III or a STUH also not a combat vehicle because it mostly lay in ambush?

And yes a Jeep offers maybee no protection but that is mostly due to SPEED beeing the idea behind it.
Even motorized infantry started armoring their Camions. (btw how we got the IFV, and by extension this piece of gak, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mowag_Duro which is hillariously tight and if uparmored has a dangerous tendency to flip over in curves.)


This vehicle is dumb even by 40k standards.



How many heavy, ranged weapons are used in close combat? The pilot is protected by power armour.

If you think something isn't realistic and thus have issues with it, you are in the wrong hobby.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. I don't appreciate the spamming of topics with constant crying and whinging. You've made it clear you don't like it. Good for you. Everyone who feels the same can move on.


it's odd really. a new item for orks, eldar what have you come out and generally folks try to be positive but whenever space marines get a new item you have a half dozen people bound and detirmined to derail any conversation about it to scream how it sucks.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 10:41:50


Post by: Ishagu


It really is an odd one. Basically unless the new stuff is exactly the same as the old stuff, there is a vocal element who are going to complain.

Nothing is mandatory. If you don't like this new walker, just "walk" on by and ignore it.

We've seen the same reactions over, and over and over again with any release that departs from the most basic design elements of Astartes. Primaris are generally a very true, modern take on Marines.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 10:49:14


Post by: BrianDavion


 Ishagu wrote:
It really is an odd one. Basically unless the new stuff is exactly the same as the old stuff, there is a vocal element who are going to complain.

Nothing is mandatory. If you don't like this new walker, just "walk" on by and ignore it.

We've seen the same reactions over, and over and over again with any release that departs from the most basic design elements of Astartes. Primaris are generally a very true, modern take on Marines.


between that and the "HOW DARE SPACE MARINES GET SOMETHING INSTEAD OF MY FACTION" that occurs everytime GW so much as puts out a event marine. it gets tiresome.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 11:13:07


Post by: Crimson


Some people like the exposed pilot on the new walker. That's fine, I don't. So I ordered a Redemptor sarcophagus bit so I can convert it. Seemed more productive than crying about it on forums.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 11:26:03


Post by: BrianDavion


 Crimson wrote:
Some people like the exposed pilot on the new walker. That's fine, I don't. So I ordered a Redemptor sarcophagus bit so I can convert it. Seemed more productive than crying about it on forums.


Lemme know how that turns out Crimson, I'm eager to see


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 12:02:12


Post by: Kanluwen


 Crimson wrote:
Some people like the exposed pilot on the new walker. That's fine, I don't. So I ordered a Redemptor sarcophagus bit so I can convert it. Seemed more productive than crying about it on forums.

I'm debating on cutting up some blisters to make a canopy for it.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 12:26:52


Post by: Apple Peel


Slipspace wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
They seem to be doing a silly throw-back to the old Space marine armor is good enough a la speeders, so not having an additional armor plate would allow for reduced weight.


That doesn't make any sense because the rest of the walker is still armored. The open cockpit removes a relatively small amount of armor in exchange for a massive weak point, since even if the driver won't be killed by a hit it's definitely got a bunch of vulnerable controls systems and angles to get a shot in behind the armor plates and such. It reads much less as "light scout walker that sacrifices armor for speed" and more like a $5 toy that should have a bunch of marketing hype about how cool it is that you can open the cockpit and put your action figures inside. It's a design and everyone involved should be ashamed of it.

Are you trying to tell me that the Invictor is just as well armored as the Redemptor? I won’t argue design aesthetic, as that differs from person to person.
Where's that size comparison come from? I don't recall seeing anything like that on the Community website.

Also, I'm with Peregrine on this: why are the shoulders armoured while the pilot is exposed? By what rationale are shoulder joints more vital to its function than the pilot who controls said joints? It would make a lot more sense if the entire chassis was exposed.

I just pulled a pic from google that had both in it.

If you notice, all the areas that either house engine type things (the bulk of the torso/chest) or areas responsible for a lot of directional articulations (shoulders, knees, wrists, groin) are armored.

Again, GW is falling back on “Marine armor is good enough.” That’s why there is no protection. The power armor is good enough. They’ve been doing that for years.


The main problem I have with that argument is the presence of joysticks for the pilot. Apart from being a really dumb control system for a walker (seriously, how is he independently controlling both arms and the body-mounted weapons with a single stick and throttle?) the controls are now exposed to any random bit of shrapnel or stray bullet. It's all very well saying the pilot's armour will protect him from that sort of attack but he's not going to last very long when his mech is sitting there immobile because the exposed control systems got dinged by lucky shot from a lasgun.

Who knows, maybe in the 41 millennium, they are using more bullet resistant material and such to make the controls. We also haven’t seen a top-down view yet. The marine’s feet could be strapped in to some kind of contraption as well. Heck, there could be partial integration with warsuit akin to a Tech Priest plugging into the machine through the back. Perhaps that’s why we can’t see a Astartes power pack on his back. There are all sorts of things that could be said for this.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 12:34:39


Post by: Peregrine


Are we honestly at the point of "but what if it has armored joysticks" in defense of this thing? Anything to avoid admitting that it's a $40 $50 $75 happy meal toy....


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 12:36:50


Post by: Apple Peel


 Peregrine wrote:
Are we honestly at the point of "but what if it has armored joysticks" in defense of this thing?

Are we to the point that superhuman existing with super guy armor isn’t a stretch enough, but armored joysticks is?


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 12:41:06


Post by: Peregrine


 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
Are we honestly at the point of "but what if it has armored joysticks" in defense of this thing?

Are we to the point that superhuman existing with super guy armor isn’t a stretch enough, but armored joysticks is?


Yes, because at that point you might as well just put proper armor on it.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 12:47:46


Post by: Apple Peel


 Peregrine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
Are we honestly at the point of "but what if it has armored joysticks" in defense of this thing?

Are we to the point that superhuman existing with super guy armor isn’t a stretch enough, but armored joysticks is?


Yes, because at that point you might as well just put proper armor on it.

If it has armored controls or controls made of resistant materials, it doesn’t need armor. You can make all the sweeping generalizations you want, but at the end of the day, it’s just crazy future-tech.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 12:57:20


Post by: Gitdakka


 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
Are we honestly at the point of "but what if it has armored joysticks" in defense of this thing?

Are we to the point that superhuman existing with super guy armor isn’t a stretch enough, but armored joysticks is?


Yes, because at that point you might as well just put proper armor on it.

If it has armored controls or controls made of resistant materials, it doesn’t need armor. You can make all the sweeping generalizations you want, but at the end of the day, it’s just crazy future-tech.


Armoured joysticks...? This is s joke right?


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 12:58:53


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


 Peregrine wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
If Guardsmen can have walkers so can Astartes. That's all there is to it.


The Sentinel is a light scouting unit for an expendable driver, it makes sense for it to be lightly armored.

The new totally-not-a-dread is a heavy walker with significant armor, it just has a giant "shoot me here" sign with no armor for the driver and a much less expendable marine at risk. And that's not even counting the stupidity of heavy bolter pistols held in a powerfist...


I agree. We have stepped into the realm of stupid for stupid sake here. I'm sorry, but this looks familiar....I just can't remember where....



Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 13:03:25


Post by: Slipspace


 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
Are we honestly at the point of "but what if it has armored joysticks" in defense of this thing?

Are we to the point that superhuman existing with super guy armor isn’t a stretch enough, but armored joysticks is?


Yes, because at that point you might as well just put proper armor on it.

If it has armored controls or controls made of resistant materials, it doesn’t need armor. You can make all the sweeping generalizations you want, but at the end of the day, it’s just crazy future-tech.


Willing suspension of disbelief isn't a catch-all get out of jail free card covering any stupid or crazy idea you can come up with. I'm willing to accept a lot of things about crazy future-tech, but some things are just jarringly stupid, precisely because you can't just handwave them away. Exposed controls (or crew, for that matter) are just fundamentally stupid, and that's especially true when they very same line of models has solutions to the problem already so we know it's not some restriction of their technology. Internal consistency is very important to some people, as is some level of thought being put into your designs.

Space Marine flyers, for example, are pretty stupid from an engineering and aerodynamics point of view. But they work really well with the aesthetic for their army so they aren't a major problem for most people. They also all follow a common design scheme which makes them fit in with the rest of the SM range and the Imperium models as a whole. Obviously it's a subjective thing, but there are certain things, even in a far-future setting, that can be glaringly stupid enough for some people that it turns them off the model completely. It appears this design is one of those things.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 14:40:08


Post by: HoundsofDemos


I mostly dislike it due to GW continue to swap marine vehicles over to stubbers rather than anything they have traditionally had. One they look weird and low tech on what should be one of the more advanced IOM units and two if Cawl is really about innovation why is he slapping an inferior weapon on nearly every he can get his hands on.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 14:42:31


Post by: Ishagu


Stubbers indicate better ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus, and look better on vehicles than pintle mounted storm bolters.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 14:47:46


Post by: Kaiyanwang


"Even in Death, I Serve"

People defending the new open dread and compare it to the sentinel forget what 40k is.
The dread is a tomb because the marine will not stop fighting even after he is dead. Even after you die, you serve the emperor.

All this tacticool stuff can be well, cool. But piece by piece it removes a bit of what made 40k special. Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.

On a more optimistic note, there is the possibility that the long (very long) term plan is to circumscribe the "space knight" aesthetics to Dark Angels only. So those that want 40k-infinity go after primaris, those that wants space knights go DA, and GW drowns in money as always.

Edit, Addendum - there is another problem. Primaris do not step only on "infinity" style-wise. Half-jokingly, many pointed out how they kinda look like stealing the aesthetics of Tau for some weapon, or going Eldar/Tau with all that A-grav. That is a greater problem in my opinion because kills what the Imperium is. I mean these guys are supposed to belong (more or less, it's sort of an union) to the same culture of the Mechanicus. It just does not add up in my opinion.

And the fist-shooting hand is not that bad but then again is kinda silly and clashes with the new tacticool style. It's overall very inconsistent, as if they could not set a specific tone for the line. Is cool, is very 40k, but in an Orky way.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 14:50:20


Post by: Ishagu


The new walker is not a Dread.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 14:53:46


Post by: Kaiyanwang


 Ishagu wrote:
The new walker is not a Dread.

It walks and quacks like a duck. Let's be honest here.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 14:55:12


Post by: Peregrine


 Ishagu wrote:
The new walker is not a Dread.


Not technically, but it sure borrows heavily from the style of dreads and most non-fans seeing pictures of one next to a dread would probably assume they are both the same kind of unit.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 14:59:38


Post by: HoundsofDemos


 Ishagu wrote:
Stubbers indicate better ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus, and look better on vehicles than pintle mounted storm bolters.


Yeah and the new hover rhino's main turret looks terrible and out of line with traditional marine weapons. It should have been a heavy bolter. Stubbers are a guardsmen's weapon, marines use bolters.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 15:01:52


Post by: Kanluwen


 Kaiyanwang wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
The new walker is not a Dread.

It walks and quacks like a duck. Let's be honest here.

A Dreadnought is a life support sarcopaghi plugged into a warmachine.

If there's no sarcophagi, going by your logic, it's not a Dreadnought.

Also it literally says this:
An Invictor Tactical Warsuit is, in essence, a Redemptor Dreadnought that has been stripped back and redesigned with lighter, sound-dampening materials for use on covert operations.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 15:02:08


Post by: Ishagu


HoundsofDemos wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
Stubbers indicate better ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus, and look better on vehicles than pintle mounted storm bolters.


Yeah and the new hover rhino's main turret looks terrible and out of line with traditional marine weapons. It should have been a heavy bolter. Stubbers are a guardsmen's weapon, marines use bolters.


The main turret is an anti-air cannon, and you can swap it for missiles if you don't like it, or a satellite dish lol


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 15:03:32


Post by: Kanluwen


HoundsofDemos wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
Stubbers indicate better ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus, and look better on vehicles than pintle mounted storm bolters.


Yeah and the new hover rhino's main turret looks terrible and out of line with traditional marine weapons. It should have been a heavy bolter. Stubbers are a guardsmen's weapon, marines use bolters.

Stubbers are weapons that primarily get tied to 'archaic' stuff. It's why they are all over Mechanicus stuff.

And for "a Guardsman's weapon", it sure as hell doesn't show up anywhere except on vehicles.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 15:07:15


Post by: robbienw


Yeah the stubbers look out of place and low tech.

Its probably to tie the Primaris in more to the mechanicus, being that their armaments were produced by Cawl and the mechanicus likes heavy stubbers.

It works better on the mechanicus with their retro design elements, but it does not work on Marine vehicles. Should have just stuck with the podded style of Stormbolters on the primaris vehicles and left the stubbers off. The Impulsor stubber turret could have instead had a larger podded version of heavy bolters.

Not so annoying on the impulsor as on the other stuff though, as I'm sure the pintle is optional, and there are other loadouts for the weapon/sensor pod.



Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 15:07:40


Post by: HoundsofDemos


Wait, that's the anti air option? That's even more of a joke than I expected, that doesn't look like it could tag even the lightest of 40k flyers.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 15:11:05


Post by: fraser1191


I just gonna say you people have seriously lost the plot....

Joysticks, tombs, bah!

It's not even a techmarine piloting the thing! That's where I draw the line!

Not actually I think it's great and unique, as opposed to a dreadnought, a venerable, and an iron clad. Looks like a stripped down redemptor made to be as light as possible, similar to the Phobos Armour itself. Seems fitting


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 15:42:21


Post by: Peregrine


 Kanluwen wrote:
A Dreadnought is a life support sarcopaghi plugged into a warmachine.

If there's no sarcophagi, going by your logic, it's not a Dreadnought.


Nobody cares about fluff nitpicking. If you ask someone who isn't heavily invested in the fluff "is this a dreadnought" and show them a picture of the new walker next to a primaris dreadnought the majority of them are going to say "yes, of course it is". They're going to look at the shape and overall aesthetic and not care one bit about whether or not the marine inside is dead.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 15:48:04


Post by: Daedalus81


 Insectum7 wrote:
^In this case Peregrene is right. It really does look like a happy meal toy.


That's a bit hyperbolic, but everyone has their own opinion, I guess.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 16:00:35


Post by: Peregrine


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^In this case Peregrene is right. It really does look like a happy meal toy.


That's a bit hyperbolic, but everyone has their own opinion, I guess.


It's not hyperbolic at all. The model looks like . It's utterly insane that GW is trying to sell it as an expensive wargaming miniature instead of throwing it in the trash where it belongs, and everyone involved in it should be ashamed of their work.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 16:18:48


Post by: Daedalus81


 Peregrine wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^In this case Peregrene is right. It really does look like a happy meal toy.


That's a bit hyperbolic, but everyone has their own opinion, I guess.


It's not hyperbolic at all. The model looks like . It's utterly insane that GW is trying to sell it as an expensive wargaming miniature instead of throwing it in the trash where it belongs, and everyone involved in it should be ashamed of their work.



....kay...


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 16:29:32


Post by: reds8n


Once a point has been made there is no point in repeatedly belabouring it.



Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 17:01:22


Post by: Insectum7


 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.


^Yes. 1000 times yes. Imo they're really botching it.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 17:07:58


Post by: Sentineil


When I first saw primaris I was very much against them, but I really have warmed to them.

When you see them in person side by side with normal marines they're just leaps ahead.

Old marines look hilariously squat with oversized weapons. I'm not a fan of the new not dread or the style of the Repulsor, but I can't fault the infantry. Other than Surpressors. Not a fan of them either...


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 17:09:30


Post by: Desubot


 Insectum7 wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.


^Yes. 1000 times yes. Imo they're really botching it.


But space marines have basically been generic sci-fi space men for a long time. they are like one of the progenitors of generic super soldiers in space.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 17:10:30


Post by: Apple Peel


Is it just me, or does it seem that GW really loves unadulterated bright colors on their marines? Have they shown any battle-damaged or weather-worm Primaris models? I feel that just seeing shiny all the time is bad for the image.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 17:30:35


Post by: Deadnight


Love the Primaris range. Can't think of any models that i dislike. I wish space marines looked like this fifteen years ago.

And I am absolutely loving the new scout walker. Silly, over the top and all kinds of awesome. Heavy bolter pistol is a brilliant touch. Can't wait to run three!


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 17:32:32


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Sentineil wrote:
When I first saw primaris I was very much against them, but I really have warmed to them.

When you see them in person side by side with normal marines they're just leaps ahead.

Old marines look hilariously squat with oversized weapons. I'm not a fan of the new not dread or the style of the Repulsor, but I can't fault the infantry. Other than Surpressors. Not a fan of them either...


The basic phobos marines look fancy, also really nice bolters. ( ESPECIALLY FOR AL CONVERSIONS!)
but the regular Primaris, eeeeehehh, i like the boltguns though.
The marines themselves not really.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 17:46:54


Post by: Vankraken


Primaris lack the grit and dark age vibe of older 40k content (I partially think it's because of GW's choice for artwork for promoting the product line). Doesn't help that their guns look more "modern" and the somewhat overly used Primaris image looks like something that might be in a futuristic Battlefield/COD game.
Spoiler:


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 17:51:20


Post by: Martel732


 Vankraken wrote:
Primaris lack the grit and dark age vibe of older 40k content (I partially think it's because of GW's choice for artwork for promoting the product line). Doesn't help that their guns look more "modern" and the somewhat overly used Primaris image looks like something that might be in a futuristic Battlefield/COD game.
Spoiler:


Because grimdark is 90s and 40K stopped being a parody. HALO has made far more money than 40K ever did, so I'm sure that factors in.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 17:54:11


Post by: Grimtuff


 deotrims 16th wrote:

Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.


GW (and by extension a lot of newer players) have forgotten what a Dreadnought is long before this terrible thing came along. Case in point for the most egregious example- Murderfang. No, GW; Dreadnought's pilots are half dead SMs buried deep within the bowels of the sarcophagus and are hooked up with no end of pipes, tubes and other life preserving paraphernalia. They are NOT sticking their stupid heads out of the Dread's body like a giant suit of armour.

Too many new players I have seen changing the heads of various Dreads, most notably the Venerable and CSM ones (I've seen it done to FW ones too) to bare heads and it looks utter gak. Why are they doing this? Because GW have told them indirectly via Murderfang that this is literally the "head" of the pilot. It's not. Never has been and you've fethed everything along the way.



Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 18:07:14


Post by: Kaiyanwang


 Desubot wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.


^Yes. 1000 times yes. Imo they're really botching it.


But space marines have basically been generic sci-fi space men for a long time. they are like one of the progenitors of generic super soldiers in space.

"Space Marine" it's from the '30s.
Stuff like Starship Troopers super soldiers (are they?) is from the end of the 50s.
GW made the combination popular, but so did Doom.

What made GW Marines stand apart was the stylistically anachronistic/schizotech elements of paladins/knights in space. Again, there is a reasonable chance they will keep such aesthetics for specific armies (Dark Angels) and this will make everyone happy, but what we see now is new models that scream "we want the Inifinity customer base".


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 18:18:41


Post by: Insectum7


^The infinity observation is also something Ive noticed. It's like the Primaris are designed to look impressive next to Infinity models.

Conversely, it might be that Primaris are designed to look good on zoomed in camera phones, or look good on instagram as people share their work.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 18:20:37


Post by: Ishagu


I don't personally like the Suppressors (Maybe a different weapon option will sway me)

And I'm not 100% on the new Dread.


Other than those, every kit has been fantastic and leaps ahead of the Squat Marines (Squat for their poses and stubby legs)


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 18:22:55


Post by: Daedalus81


Do these marines look proportionally like old marines or new marines?




Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 18:40:54


Post by: Insectum7


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Do these marines look proportionally like old marines or new marines?




That's actually sorta beside the point. Proportions have a lot to do with how an object is shown.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 18:41:09


Post by: Vankraken


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Do these marines look proportionally like old marines or new marines?




Reason why they should of just gone with making marines true scale and keeping all the fluff viable instead of attempting to squat the entire model line and gut the lore to sell more plastic.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 18:42:46


Post by: Daedalus81


 Insectum7 wrote:

That's actually sorta beside the point. Proportions have a lot to do with how an object is shown.


What makes the marines in the video not look like just some "scifi COD guy"?


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 18:46:05


Post by: TheCustomLime


I like the Nu-Rhino and the Infiltrators. I'm not too crazy about the Scope-Marines and the not-Power loader is just silly for a combat vehicle. Thankfully Redemptors still exist.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 18:48:08


Post by: Martel732


The power loader is a time-honored unit.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 19:07:39


Post by: Vankraken


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:

That's actually sorta beside the point. Proportions have a lot to do with how an object is shown.


What makes the marines in the video not look like just some "scifi COD guy"?


I would say traditional space marines are a bit more stocky which lends to their feeling of being a walking tank where as the increase in primaris height tends to give them more human like proportion which thus lends itself to looking more like "generic sci-fi guy". Same with primaris guns which are longer giving this more generic sci fi look unlike the classic bolter which is its own unique shape (being very bulky for its relatively short length).


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 19:29:43


Post by: Talizvar


 Insectum7 wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.
^Yes. 1000 times yes. Imo they're really botching it.
So what would capture the "essence" of the Space Marine over a generic spaceman?

Consistent features of them:
- Bolter: Oversized barrel with a few common elements.
- Power backpack with the "stabilizing jets".
- Big oversized pauldrons.

Looking at this, nothing notable to the classic look to the SM armor has change.
We could debate a fair bit on the "Darth Vader" breather grill as opposed to beaks.

People had wanted "true scale" for these guys for a while so I am onboard.
Mind, I have a 4000 odd point Black templar old school army (all still on 25mm / 1" bases) so this may hurt a tiny bit.

I agree they are now more in line with the long standing fluff of being some 7' tall or so so the new guys seem correct when Cadian Guard (really old models) next to them.






Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 19:35:17


Post by: Kaiyanwang


The primaris line is not only intercessors. The "infinity" feel is found more on other models.
The improved scale IS good. See the comments upthread about the good execution of CSMs.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 20:21:34


Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


 Ishagu wrote:
I don't personally like the Suppressors (Maybe a different weapon option will sway me)

And I'm not 100% on the new Dread.


Other than those, every kit has been fantastic and leaps ahead of the Squat Marines (Squat for their poses and stubby legs)


This is pretty much where I am at too except I am also not feeling Inceptors blast helmets (which isn't a big deal since they don't seem to be tied to the plasma load out).

I also don't know if I am completely on board with the Impulsor. I think that just might be a model I will have to build and have in hand before I can say yea or nay about it. I just don't know if the rear section is to much of a departure from what the repulsor line had created. My hope is that it feels kinda like a uparmored technical or something.

I would definitely like the Invictor Warsuit in it had a sarcophagus instead of a pilot as well as a forearm mounted bolter instead the 'pistol' version. Part of me thinks those really aren't all that big of alterations to move the model from like to dislike, yet they do. I haven't been a big fan of dreadnoughts anyways, so it is easy enough to pass on it (there is already more than enough in this release than I want to buy all at once anyways). I will admit I am becoming a little annoyed when it is referred as a baby carrier since it shares almost no aspects of the dreadknight that does actually make it kinda look like a baby carrier. Fortunately, I don't think I have seen anyone on Dakka Dakka doing such a thing.

The Incursor squad has some elements that don't connect with me, but at the same time; they do actually help sell the unit as combat engineers of sorts. The visor and oversized scope to read to me as engineer for some reason.



Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 20:25:44


Post by: Bellerophon


The basic Intercessor is the closest thing in the Primaris line to the old aesthetic, so it's not the best comparison when people talk about the generic sci-fi supersoldier. Compare instead with some of the new Vanguard marine models with their slimmed-down armour and aerials on everything. It moves things in a direction more akin to other sci-fi supersoldiers - which are generally depicted with more obvious high-tech gear and slimmer armour, the prime examples being things like the Halo Spartans. The traditional 40k space marine is clearly a walking tank, a brutal symbol of an oppressive regime, and the Intercessor manages to update that look pretty well - it's the newer stuff that a lot of folks have problems with from the direction of 'tacticool' and losing the character of the space marines.

I mean, personally, I think the Intercessors/Hellblasters look good, the gravis armour less so, the Inceptors and their variants rather ugly, and the vanguard stuff strays too far from the core themes of the faction for my taste. I rather dislike the vehicles too - hover tanks just doesn't sit right with my mental image of space marine vehicles, even if it's sensible to conclude that if the imperium was going to produce hover tanks in any sort of numbers it's the marines that would get them.

There are a number of factors that make me still prefer squatmarines. One of them is, I'll admit, that I've never been especially fond of change so I've probably got an inbuilt bias against new releases that change something fundamental about the setting. I've loved the concept of the space marines since I first got into the 40k setting ~20 years ago, and for all that time my concept of space marines has been based on the traditional chapter organisation. Tactical, assault, devastator, scout, terminator squads. Rhinos, predators, land raiders. I'm very resistant to changing that view. And to me the design style of those units is iconic. I'm not necessarily arguing in favour of the specific proportions of the models, but rather the design cues of the armour and weapons. If the Primaris release had instead been true-scale versions of the classic units based on the tradtional roles and style, I'd have grumbled but I'd have come round to it quickly enough.

For my taste, the Primaris commit the triple sin of representing a change from those classic marine units, having awful fluff and also taking the character of the faction in a direction I don't like. It's been said before, and I touched on it at the start of this post - the design direction of the new models feels more generic sci-fi, it feels like Call of Duty in space. The space marines were always warrior monks - but that feel is almost totally absent from the new models. Sure, the basic Mark VII suit isn't especially gothic in itself, but importantly there wasn't anything about it that detracted from that feeling, nothing that seemed to clash with the fluff of the warrior monks. Then, when you start getting into all the accessories and elite units of the classic marines, bringing in the elaborate sculpted pauldrons, tabards, purity seals all over the place, it all added up to fit with the fluff - these were grim warrior monks trying in vain to fight back the darkness. I miss that in the new ones. That isn't to say that they won't be able to grab my attention with new releases. If, after GW finishes with this current wave, they make the next wave more decorative and gothic, I'll probably be happier. But for now there's very little in the new line to inspire me.

So, the Primaris that I do own from Dark Imperium (bought it for the rulebook mainly, and if I was buying the book anyway the minis were a steal even if I wasn't especially fond of them) and Wake the Dead (wanted the Eldar!) are still on the sprue. I may build and paint them eventually if I feel like it, but for now they are unloved. I'm not actively working on my classic marine army at the moment, but I'm still quite happy to add more squatmarines to it. The proportions don't bother me, and they're still what I think of when I think of space marines.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 20:56:10


Post by: robbienw


I do find it funny when people criticise classic marines for having ‘squat’ poses, when most of the Primaris range is in the same kind of squatting pose as well.

Sure, you have a couple of well posed walking guys in the dark imperium box, 1 single running reiver and the nicely posed lieutenant calsius, but that is about it. The vast majority of Primaris are squatting.

The classic range has much greater range of poses. There is the normal tactical legs, devastator legs, running legs from assault marines, walking legs from deathwatch, more normal legs and running legs from the FW legion sets etc.

Funnily enough the squatting pose, as in legs braced, is quite realistic as modern soldiers do it when firing and moving.

As for them being true scale, they really aren’t. Rather they are slightly less heroic but still heroic scale. They are closer to the ideal head to body ratio of ideal art proportions, but they are still heroically proportioned. Heads are still overly large, arms still too big and long, weapons overly large etc. And as the OP said their legs are probably a bit too long. You can see they are not true scale illustrated best when you compare the art of Lieutenant Calsius with the actual model.

I know some people like them because they are big compared to your old Cadian models, but now GW have upscaled normal humans as well, so the scale relationship between newer human model and Primaris is similar to that of Cadians to classic marines.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 21:12:54


Post by: BrianDavion


people saying primaris marines lack the knights in space feel. can you explain why?

I mean let's look at a priamris Marine for a moment

Spoiler:


there's definatly some high tech imgry on that, the communications(?) device on his wrist but you also have a medieval style tilting shield which is an obvious medieval affection. you see the purity seal, and well this mini doesn't have any it's common to sell little relicquaries hanging off their belts.

Spoiler:


then since people have said the other stuff is less classical mariney, let's look at an agressor. purity seals, skulls, a relicquary, it's got all the little detailing that seperates marines from say a HALO spartan.


Now you DO see less of this with the vanguard marines so far but we've also not seen the full kits for them.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 21:38:42


Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


robbienw wrote:
I do find it funny when people criticise classic marines for having ‘squat’ poses, when most of the Primaris range is in the same kind of squatting pose as well.

Sure, you have a couple of well posed walking guys in the dark imperium box, 1 single running reiver and the nicely posed lieutenant calsius, but that is about it. The vast majority of Primaris are squatting.

The classic range has much greater range of poses. There is the normal tactical legs, devastator legs, running legs from assault marines, walking legs from deathwatch, more normal legs and running legs from the FW legion sets etc.

Funnily enough the squatting pose, as in legs braced, is quite realistic as modern soldiers do it when firing and moving.


I think there something to be said between the horse stance of many non-Primaris Marines and the less pronounced combat crouch of Primaris. It also helps that the Primaris are better proportioned to make the squat they are doing likes awkward. I was never all that bothered by most non-Primaris marine squatting poses save some of the most extreme cases. Even then, I don't think it was anymore out of place the rest of the proportion choices. As for the Primaris, I think there is more to criticize a couple of the poses looking a little knocked knee-ed (a couple of the easy-to-build intercessors demonstrate this). It isn't all that pronounced and largely appears from how flatting a 2d image of the model makes it look worse than it is.

Spoiler:




Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 21:44:45


Post by: fraser1191


Funny thing is I put more purity seal on my Primaris marines than I did on my old marines. So my old marines are cleaner cut


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 21:47:42


Post by: ERJAK


 Insectum7 wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.


^Yes. 1000 times yes. Imo they're really botching it.


Marines have always been generic Sci-fi space men. They're by far the most boring faction in the setting.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 21:58:13


Post by: Galef


Personally, I'm a fan of the Primaris design. They're true scale Marines and I have no issues with their "lack" of grim dark. They are supposed to be a new hope for the Imperium

But, I personally don't like the Phobos armour. Not only is the name silly, but I don't like the tiny ankles and weird faces. It's a shame that it look like GW wants them to be the future of all Primaris. It would be long before we get Phobos Gravis armour

-


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:06:06


Post by: Formosa


Primaris, ok to good looking infantry, vehicles that can die in a dumpster fire.

main problem with the whole range, its CAD and not sculpted, so all the infantry and tanks are just mish mashes of other models with a hell of a lot less thought put into them than a real sculptor would do.... I HATE CAD now because it has ruined HH units and Primaris tanks


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:13:50


Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


I suppose I like the tacticool look given how I painted up my primaris army. However, even when I look at Phobos armor I see a few elements that have aspects D&D/Tolkien-esque sensibilities. Where many see board shorts and crocs, I see fantasy high boots with the cuff rolled over. Check the Exalted Hero of Chaos or Blood Warriors boots to see what I mean. The only difference is instead of them being leather, they are ceramite. Even the all the belts and pouches is basically the sci-fi/modern equivalent to straps and bags that all my D&D rouges and rangers had on them all the way back in the nineties. Phobos armor to me is fantasy ranger armor given the 40k space marine treatment. I don't see it being all that less grimdark or warrior-monk than scout armor. Which makes sense as both phobos units and scouts perform stealth/black ops kind of missions. To be honest, out side the Space Wolves, it always seemed strange to space marines to use their least experienced men to perform some of the most important aspects of conducting war (removing the fog or war).

Certainly Mark X armor has dropped the number of skulls per inch on them. That said, it isn't like they don't have any skulls on them at all. The chest plate still has one as well the helmets for ranked individuals. Primaris kits still have purity seals that can be attached as well as many kits having some skull adorned bit (I like to think they are weapon cleaning field kits). The kits still have a couple of not plain pauldrons to add a little more warrior-monk. It that is not enough, they are interchangeable with non-primaris space marines. Still want more, you could always add veteran bits to them.

I will certainly agree that the lack of power weapons doesn't do the primaris marines any favors in continuing the warrior-monk aesthetic. The Captain in Gravis armor is certainly the primaris line's most warrior monk followed closely but general gravis units.

I am sure other posters didn't mean this, but one could draw a conclusion that some think that tacticool is the opposite, or tangential, to Grimdark. I would go as far as saying tacticool isn't even tangential to being warrior-monk. Although, I will concede that it could be difficult to make a model that sells both tacticool and warrior-monk without coming off trying to do too much all at once.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:23:43


Post by: BrianDavion


 Galef wrote:
Personally, I'm a fan of the Primaris design. They're true scale Marines and I have no issues with their "lack" of grim dark. They are supposed to be a new hope for the Imperium

But, I personally don't like the Phobos armour. Not only is the name silly, but I don't like the tiny ankles and weird faces. It's a shame that it look like GW wants them to be the future of all Primaris. It would be long before we get Phobos Gravis armour

-


fun fact Phobos is the greek god of fear, thus phobos armor basicly translates as terror armor.

as for Phobos being the future of all Primairs.. where the hell do you get that idea?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I suppose I like the tacticool look given how I painted up my primaris army. However, even when I look at Phobos armor I see a few elements that have aspects D&D/Tolkien-esque sensibilities. Where many see board shorts and crocs, I see fantasy high boots with the cuff rolled over. Check the Exalted Hero of Chaos or Blood Warriors boots to see what I mean. The only difference is instead of them being leather, they are ceramite. Even the all the belts and pouches is basically the sci-fi/modern equivalent to straps and bags that all my D&D rouges and rangers had on them all the way back in the nineties. Phobos armor to me is fantasy ranger armor given the 40k space marine treatment. I don't see it being all that less grimdark or warrior-monk than scout armor. Which makes sense as both phobos units and scouts perform stealth/black ops kind of missions. To be honest, out side the Space Wolves, it always seemed strange to space marines to use their least experienced men to perform some of the most important aspects of conducting war (removing the fog or war).

Certainly Mark X armor has dropped the number of skulls per inch on them. That said, it isn't like they don't have any skulls on them at all. The chest plate still has one as well the helmets for ranked individuals. Primaris kits still have purity seals that can be attached as well as many kits having some skull adorned bit (I like to think they are weapon cleaning field kits). The kits still have a couple of not plain pauldrons to add a little more warrior-monk. It that is not enough, they are interchangeable with non-primaris space marines. Still want more, you could always add veteran bits to them.

I will certainly agree that the lack of power weapons doesn't do the primaris marines any favors in continuing the warrior-monk aesthetic. The Captain in Gravis armor is certainly the primaris line's most warrior monk followed closely but general gravis units.

I am sure other posters didn't mean this, but one could draw a conclusion that some think that tacticool is the opposite, or tangential, to Grimdark. I would go as far as saying tacticool isn't even tangential to being warrior-monk. Although, I will concede that it could be difficult to make a model that sells both tacticool and warrior-monk without coming off trying to do too much all at once.


I'd arguer the absolute height of combining the two is the phobos Libby


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:29:15


Post by: Ishagu


Phobos is wrong but Scouts are fine? Give me a break lol

Astartes needed a re-fresh, ground up to clear up some baggage and to design more distinctive kits in differnt roles.

I'm convinced that the people who speak negatively of the range don't own much or any of it. Once I put my Primaris army down on the table there was no going back - they look imposing, impressive and the correct size next to non super-human models.

Also there is 0% chance that Phobos is the future of all Astartes. The next big release 8-12 months from now will be Gravis focused.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:37:07


Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


BrianDavion wrote:
Spoiler:
 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I suppose I like the tacticool look given how I painted up my primaris army. However, even when I look at Phobos armor I see a few elements that have aspects D&D/Tolkien-esque sensibilities. Where many see board shorts and crocs, I see fantasy high boots with the cuff rolled over. Check the Exalted Hero of Chaos or Blood Warriors boots to see what I mean. The only difference is instead of them being leather, they are ceramite. Even the all the belts and pouches is basically the sci-fi/modern equivalent to straps and bags that all my D&D rouges and rangers had on them all the way back in the nineties. Phobos armor to me is fantasy ranger armor given the 40k space marine treatment. I don't see it being all that less grimdark or warrior-monk than scout armor. Which makes sense as both phobos units and scouts perform stealth/black ops kind of missions. To be honest, out side the Space Wolves, it always seemed strange to space marines to use their least experienced men to perform some of the most important aspects of conducting war (removing the fog or war).

Certainly Mark X armor has dropped the number of skulls per inch on them. That said, it isn't like they don't have any skulls on them at all. The chest plate still has one as well the helmets for ranked individuals. Primaris kits still have purity seals that can be attached as well as many kits having some skull adorned bit (I like to think they are weapon cleaning field kits). The kits still have a couple of not plain pauldrons to add a little more warrior-monk. It that is not enough, they are interchangeable with non-primaris space marines. Still want more, you could always add veteran bits to them.

I will certainly agree that the lack of power weapons doesn't do the primaris marines any favors in continuing the warrior-monk aesthetic. The Captain in Gravis armor is certainly the primaris line's most warrior monk followed closely but general gravis units.

I am sure other posters didn't mean this, but one could draw a conclusion that some think that tacticool is the opposite, or tangential, to Grimdark. I would go as far as saying tacticool isn't even tangential to being warrior-monk. Although, I will concede that it could be difficult to make a model that sells both tacticool and warrior-monk without coming off trying to do too much all at once.


I'd arguer the absolute height of combining the two is the phobos Libby


Good Point.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:42:43


Post by: BrianDavion


 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Spoiler:
 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I suppose I like the tacticool look given how I painted up my primaris army. However, even when I look at Phobos armor I see a few elements that have aspects D&D/Tolkien-esque sensibilities. Where many see board shorts and crocs, I see fantasy high boots with the cuff rolled over. Check the Exalted Hero of Chaos or Blood Warriors boots to see what I mean. The only difference is instead of them being leather, they are ceramite. Even the all the belts and pouches is basically the sci-fi/modern equivalent to straps and bags that all my D&D rouges and rangers had on them all the way back in the nineties. Phobos armor to me is fantasy ranger armor given the 40k space marine treatment. I don't see it being all that less grimdark or warrior-monk than scout armor. Which makes sense as both phobos units and scouts perform stealth/black ops kind of missions. To be honest, out side the Space Wolves, it always seemed strange to space marines to use their least experienced men to perform some of the most important aspects of conducting war (removing the fog or war).

Certainly Mark X armor has dropped the number of skulls per inch on them. That said, it isn't like they don't have any skulls on them at all. The chest plate still has one as well the helmets for ranked individuals. Primaris kits still have purity seals that can be attached as well as many kits having some skull adorned bit (I like to think they are weapon cleaning field kits). The kits still have a couple of not plain pauldrons to add a little more warrior-monk. It that is not enough, they are interchangeable with non-primaris space marines. Still want more, you could always add veteran bits to them.

I will certainly agree that the lack of power weapons doesn't do the primaris marines any favors in continuing the warrior-monk aesthetic. The Captain in Gravis armor is certainly the primaris line's most warrior monk followed closely but general gravis units.

I am sure other posters didn't mean this, but one could draw a conclusion that some think that tacticool is the opposite, or tangential, to Grimdark. I would go as far as saying tacticool isn't even tangential to being warrior-monk. Although, I will concede that it could be difficult to make a model that sells both tacticool and warrior-monk without coming off trying to do too much all at once.


I'd arguer the absolute height of combining the two is the phobos Libby


Good Point.


it's a gorgous model, hopefully they'll release it outside of shadowspear soon


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:44:49


Post by: Formosa


 Ishagu wrote:
Phobos is wrong but Scouts are fine? Give me a break lol

Astartes needed a re-fresh, ground up to clear up some baggage and to design more distinctive kits in differnt roles.

I'm convinced that the people who speak negatively of the range don't own much or any of it. Once I put my Primaris army down on the table there was no going back - they look imposing, impressive and the correct size next to non super-human models.

Also there is 0% chance that Phobos is the future of all Astartes. The next big release 8-12 months from now will be Gravis focused.




.... Whut? You are convinced that people who don't like something ... Don't own the thing they don't like???

Strange hot take but yeah sure, I'd say you are spot on.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:46:38


Post by: Ishagu


If you don't like it why would you buy enough of it to run as a whole army? That sounds stupid to me.

"I really don't like this, I'm going to keep buying more of it"


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:49:52


Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


 Ishagu wrote:


I'm convinced that the people who speak negatively of the range don't own much or any of it. Once I put my Primaris army down on the table there was no going back - they look imposing, impressive and the correct size next to non super-human models.


There might be some truth to that. I know I was against them to the point I wanted to start an Imperial Fists 4th company due a quote from one of them on Primaris. However, after building and painting some of my Shadowspear stuff, I couldn't get over how good they looked (and how much better of a painter they made me look like compared to what I really am). Looking at non-Primaris Space Marines is like going back a generation or two in video game graphics. You remember them looking a lot better when you played them, but coming back to them after a decade they don't hold up as well as you remember them. They might still have their charm, but it is tough to have them standing next to each other.

I think this only going to become more apparent as GW has changed their proportions aesthetic. I think for the most part xenos will be fine since whatever they are it is easy enough to say that is what they are. But when Sisters of Battle come out, Imperial Guard infantry models are going to start looking kinda iffy I think. At that point, I think the IoM will be reaching a tipping point of stuff with this new less bulky design.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:51:17


Post by: Ishagu


 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:


I'm convinced that the people who speak negatively of the range don't own much or any of it. Once I put my Primaris army down on the table there was no going back - they look imposing, impressive and the correct size next to non super-human models.


There might be some truth to that. I know I was against them to the point I wanted to start an Imperial Fists 4th company due a quote from one of them on Primaris. However, after building and painting some of my Shadowspear stuff, I couldn't get over how good they looked (and how much better of a painter they made me look like compared to what I really am). Looking at non-Primaris Space Marines is like going back a generation or two in video game graphics. You remember them looking a lot better when you played them, but coming back to them after a decade they don't hold up as well as you remember them. They might still have their charm, but it is tough to have them standing next to each other.

I think this only going to become more apparent as GW has changed their proportions aesthetic. I think for the most part xenos will be fine since whatever they are it is easy enough to say that is what they are. But when Sisters of Battle come out, Imperial Guard infantry models are going to start looking kinda iffy I think. At that point, I think the IoM will be reaching a tipping point of stuff with this new less bulky design.


I say that because I was upset with Primaris when they were first revealed. When I actually got some on my painting table and used them there was no going back after that point.

Infiltrators were one of these models I wasn't sold on, but they look brillaint in person.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:56:05


Post by: Insectum7


ERJAK wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.


^Yes. 1000 times yes. Imo they're really botching it.


Marines have always been generic Sci-fi space men. They're by far the most boring faction in the setting.


With chainsaw swords, medieval helmets and WW1 tanks? No, I think not.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 22:57:46


Post by: BrianDavion


 Ishagu wrote:
 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:


I'm convinced that the people who speak negatively of the range don't own much or any of it. Once I put my Primaris army down on the table there was no going back - they look imposing, impressive and the correct size next to non super-human models.


There might be some truth to that. I know I was against them to the point I wanted to start an Imperial Fists 4th company due a quote from one of them on Primaris. However, after building and painting some of my Shadowspear stuff, I couldn't get over how good they looked (and how much better of a painter they made me look like compared to what I really am). Looking at non-Primaris Space Marines is like going back a generation or two in video game graphics. You remember them looking a lot better when you played them, but coming back to them after a decade they don't hold up as well as you remember them. They might still have their charm, but it is tough to have them standing next to each other.

I think this only going to become more apparent as GW has changed their proportions aesthetic. I think for the most part xenos will be fine since whatever they are it is easy enough to say that is what they are. But when Sisters of Battle come out, Imperial Guard infantry models are going to start looking kinda iffy I think. At that point, I think the IoM will be reaching a tipping point of stuff with this new less bulky design.


I say that because I was upset with Primaris when they were first revealed. When I actually got some on my painting table and used them there was no going back after that point.

Infiltrators were one of these models I wasn't sold on, but they look brillaint in person.


agreed once you have the minis in hand, you're sold even the gravis stuff which was once mocked you realize looks great in person


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 23:00:34


Post by: Apple Peel


 Ishagu wrote:
If you don't like it why would you buy enough of it to run as a whole army? That sounds stupid to me.

"I really don't like this, I'm going to keep buying more of it"

Think about it differently. I remember speaking with someone on here a month or two back. We were talking about the Tempestus Scions. He told me he didn’t like the models since they didn’t have a lots of ruck and carry equipment, something one would expect on special forces and drop troops. I asked him if he had ever bought a kit. He told me he only ever had some of the torsos and legs for conversions. I then informed him how GW never accurately showed the sheer amount of extra customization bits in the art and advertising images. I told him about the canteens, knives, uplifting primers, grenades, pouches, etc.

The issue of the matter was that he never got to see the whole thing and it’s potential in his own hands. His opinion changed to be a bit more favorable after I informed him of all the bits.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 23:04:14


Post by: JohnnyHell


 Formosa wrote:
Primaris, ok to good looking infantry, vehicles that can die in a dumpster fire.

main problem with the whole range, its CAD and not sculpted, so all the infantry and tanks are just mish mashes of other models with a hell of a lot less thought put into them than a real sculptor would do.... I HATE CAD now because it has ruined HH units and Primaris tanks


I mean, this is so far from true that it’s silly. CAD is sculpting. Go tell me the likes of Darren Latham aren’t ‘real sculptors’. The stuff that man achieves in plastic is breathtaking. No amount of Luddite “GS or GTFO” thinking makes the all-CAD Genestealer Cults any less of a beautiful range. This idea that CAD=BAD is weird. CAD is but a tool, modern putty if you will, and better suited to sculpting for plastic production than Green Stuff three-ups. It’s better suited to tanks than older methods. If you dislike the stylistic choices of the sculpts, fine, but the sculpting medium is not inherently evil. .


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 23:13:38


Post by: Insectum7


 JohnnyHell wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
Primaris, ok to good looking infantry, vehicles that can die in a dumpster fire.

main problem with the whole range, its CAD and not sculpted, so all the infantry and tanks are just mish mashes of other models with a hell of a lot less thought put into them than a real sculptor would do.... I HATE CAD now because it has ruined HH units and Primaris tanks


I mean, this is so far from true that it’s silly. CAD is sculpting. Go tell me the likes of Darren Latham aren’t ‘real sculptors’. The stuff that man achieves in plastic is breathtaking. No amount of Luddite “GS or GTFO” thinking makes the all-CAD Genestealer Cults any less of a beautiful range. This idea that CAD=BAD is weird. CAD is but a tool, modern putty if you will, and better suited to sculpting for plastic production than Green Stuff three-ups. It’s better suited to tanks than older methods. If you dislike the stylistic choices of the sculpts, fine, but the sculpting medium is not inherently evil. .


CAD is a phenomenal tool. It also allows you to be lazier. Thats the issue. It's not unlike a CG camera. You can do anything with a CG camera, however the freedom of movement, coupled with lazy decision making, can have really terrible results.

The lack of "groumding" to reality/tactile experience can have unfortunate side effects.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 23:14:44


Post by: Ishagu


GW are many things, lazy is not one of them. Their release schedule shames any other competitior. The variety of kits and quality of details is not matched.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 23:24:24


Post by: AngryAngel80


 Ishagu wrote:
Phobos is wrong but Scouts are fine? Give me a break lol

Astartes needed a re-fresh, ground up to clear up some baggage and to design more distinctive kits in differnt roles.

I'm convinced that the people who speak negatively of the range don't own much or any of it. Once I put my Primaris army down on the table there was no going back - they look imposing, impressive and the correct size next to non super-human models.

Also there is 0% chance that Phobos is the future of all Astartes. The next big release 8-12 months from now will be Gravis focused.


Having both, me personally I still love both old and new marines.

Saying someone is wrong for disliking them though is a bit much. There are some very different looks to the model lines now emerging. You can get the " old guard " feel for old marines. The look of the new primaris can divorce you from that original vision once you start putting them all on the board. The old squad set ups felt more mature with special weapon, heavy, sgt etc and how the squad felt fleshed out like a take all comers type unit. The single set up units feel boring and lack the feeling of giving it your personal spin.

For instance it was for some players a matter of personal pride how they set up their Tac Squads, went into a whole discussion for their set up, use, based on their load outs and what they got done with them. Now, it's pretty much whole squads with the same load outs and a point and click type combat role, hardly anything that needs to be discussed.

As well as the fluff abortion that they ushered in. I pretty much have to ignore the fluff to justify them being in the deathwatch at all as there wouldn't be any at all highly specialized or skilled enough in their job to have earned a place in the Deathwatch unless I'm saying my force is way far in the future. Hell the fluff even says " G man was like " Hey you guys always talk about needing more men right ? Here's a bunch ! have fun ! " They should have just taken the hit, and upgraded all marines and let the customer decide to upgrade to the new models or not as opposed to going through this mental gymnastics to have wave them into instant use fresh out the test tubes.

Visually though I like both, but they both tend to be different and you aren't wrong for missing the grim dark, I know I do. More and more the marines are cool but even more bland than they were, now this may change but to say they call back to all old marines were is just not true. The whole set up, build, units have none of the make it your own feel old marines had and that is in part why old players take issue with it. Each unit is less " yours " and more, pick variant unit 1, 2 or maybe 3 and they are all that which doesn't feel as cool as the old squad set ups.

Just my feelings looking at it from both angles of the debate.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 23:31:06


Post by: Insectum7


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:

That's actually sorta beside the point. Proportions have a lot to do with how an object is shown.


What makes the marines in the video not look like just some "scifi COD guy"?


I dont play COD, but I'd guess one looks like a modern day ish soldier, and the other looks like a cross between a SW storm trooper and a refrigerator.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 23:33:50


Post by: Ishagu


Well, classic Marines were starting to look very dated to me. They are inspired by 80s edge lord - heavy metal instead of a functional super soldier.

The Sternguard look like walking shrines that went too far. The helmets look like Darth Vader, etc

The Primaris are a cleaner, more progressive look inspired by MkIV armour from the HH, widely considered one of the most popular designs.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/08 23:39:43


Post by: Insectum7


Theres nothing clean or progressive about that open topped not-a-dred.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 00:11:42


Post by: AngryAngel80


Like I said, its all about what you like. Though I'd say just because something is old doesn't mean it can't look better than the new or feel better to the new, it's all in the eye of the beholder after all.

I'd probably not pick on the old models for looking like certain sci fi movie characters. The new dread looks straight from the matrix. GW has a trend of taking looks from various sci fi properties over time. Some of the old old cadians looked like colonial marines from Aliens, and the current cadians strike me an awful lot like mobile infantry, as just some of the easiest examples.

While the stern guard are very over done with the add ons, I know some players who absolutely love it. Just like I'm sure some love the new matrix dread.

So dated to you, is the classic and good to another.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 00:13:04


Post by: Ishagu


 Insectum7 wrote:
Theres nothing clean or progressive about that open topped not-a-dred.


Have you seen it in person? I haven't.

Maybe I'll love it, maybe I won't. Maybe the rules will be so good it becomes the most common unit in the game.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 00:19:11


Post by: Insectum7


 Ishagu wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Theres nothing clean or progressive about that open topped not-a-dred.


Have you seen it in person? I haven't.

Maybe I'll love it, maybe I won't. Maybe the rules will be so good it becomes the most common unit in the game.

I don't need to see it in person to know it isnt "clean and progressive". Awesome rules wont change its aesthetics.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 00:21:40


Post by: AngryAngel80


I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 00:31:43


Post by: Kaiyanwang


 Ishagu wrote:
Phobos is wrong but Scouts are fine? Give me a break lol

Astartes needed a re-fresh, ground up to clear up some baggage and to design more distinctive kits in differnt roles.

I'm convinced that the people who speak negatively of the range don't own much or any of it. Once I put my Primaris army down on the table there was no going back - they look imposing, impressive and the correct size next to non super-human models.

Also there is 0% chance that Phobos is the future of all Astartes. The next big release 8-12 months from now will be Gravis focused.


The fact that needed a refresh does not mean that one can have concerns on the concepts or the execution. BTW I dislike the concept - neutrally thinking about it, I have to say that the execution is mostly great barring, as Galef said, the Phobos Ankles that remember me the way some douche-y man wear pants.
AGAIN, see how the CSMs were refreshed - not betraying the former concept, and with an excellent execution.
See how the mechanicus was done, perfectly in tone with the old Blanchian concepts in its essence.

I wish to answer in specifically to "I'm convinced that the people who speak negatively of the range don't own much or any of it."
At the risk of sounding confrontational, this is at the level of what I would read on a post written by a joke account. OF COURSE if I don't like the models I am not going to buy them.
What you wrote has the unfortunate implication that one should buy every GW model out there regardless.
What the warp?



Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 00:52:05


Post by: BrianDavion


I think what Ishagu means is people who dislike the primaris Range have mostly looked at it on computers and not taken a good long look at the minis. which is a legit arguement to make, although one I'm not sure I agree with as everyone should have some primaris now if they play space marines, because let's face it, if you played space marines you proably bought dark imperium


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 01:00:50


Post by: Insectum7


^Why would I have bought Dark Imperium?


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 01:03:07


Post by: BrianDavion


 Insectum7 wrote:
^Why would I have bought Dark Imperium?


not you in specific but I suspect most marine players did, it was a good value for the money and all. quite frankly if youve never first hand gotten a good look at primaris you proably should before you judge the model. even the repulsor isn't as bad in person.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 01:21:43


Post by: Insectum7


BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^Why would I have bought Dark Imperium?


not you in specific but I suspect most marine players did, it was a good value for the money and all. quite frankly if youve never first hand gotten a good look at primaris you proably should before you judge the model. even the repulsor isn't as bad in person.


Oh, I've seen them in person a plenty.

Here's my basic rundown for Primaris.
A: Intercessors and Hellblasters look pretty good.
A1: They dont look good next to my current collection though.
A2: I really dislike the squad organization aka, lack of options.

B: None of the other Primaris kits do anything for me. I find them pretty uninspired, to say the least.

So There are some kits I can appreciate, but they dont look good with my current collection, and I dont want to build an army around them because I dont like the rest of their units.

Plus I already have a marine army. If I wanted to collect a new army, It'd be not marines. I have Eldar I can add to, as well as a sizeable Tyranid and Chaos army.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 01:35:25


Post by: Argive


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


hahahaaaaaaa yeah lets face it we all think like that when something in our codex just makes everything else look like a cigarette ashtray in a brothel..
Im stealing your words sir!


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 01:57:29


Post by: oldravenman3025


 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
They seem to be doing a silly throw-back to the old Space marine armor is good enough a la speeders, so not having an additional armor plate would allow for reduced weight.


That doesn't make any sense because the rest of the walker is still armored. The open cockpit removes a relatively small amount of armor in exchange for a massive weak point, since even if the driver won't be killed by a hit it's definitely got a bunch of vulnerable controls systems and angles to get a shot in behind the armor plates and such. It reads much less as "light scout walker that sacrifices armor for speed" and more like a $5 toy that should have a bunch of marketing hype about how cool it is that you can open the cockpit and put your action figures inside. It's a design and everyone involved should be ashamed of it.

Are you trying to tell me that the Invictor is just as well armored as the Redemptor? I won’t argue design aesthetic, as that differs from person to person.




That Invictor spec ops walker doesn't look half-bad. As far as combat exoskeletons go, its design is far more logical than the Dreadknight (aka The Baby Carrier).


Slap on some "glass" for a canopy feel, and it would be golden


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 02:12:13


Post by: AngryAngel80


 Argive wrote:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


hahahaaaaaaa yeah lets face it we all think like that when something in our codex just makes everything else look like a cigarette ashtray in a brothel..
Im stealing your words sir!


Wonderful, I hope you do. I'll say it myself next time I find a model ugly or questionable, but them rules are so fine it makes me see the models inner beauty instead. It's really a tale as old as time, part of the deeper meaning of warhammer. I never knew the game was so deep.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 02:13:59


Post by: Nightlord1987


I totally called out the blurry picture a month ago as baby carrier 2.0.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 05:19:31


Post by: Gitdakka


Its a strange statement that those who dislike primaris have not seen them. I mean we play the game and socialize. It's two years since release, of course we have all seen them appear in games. If we did not buy them some of our friends or opponents did. Do you think we live in caves or what?


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 06:39:41


Post by: AngryAngel80


I actually live in a vault, for a bright future underground. To avoid the impending nukes and emerge after it all settles down to explore the wasteland because war, war never changes.

So that would be my excuse for never seeing a Primaris.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 07:52:38


Post by: robbienw


Yes the argument that people who dislike primaris haven't seen them in person and therefore they cant comment on them is bizarre and desperate

First of all, you can absolutely determine if you like a model just from viewing it online.

Secondly, as if people who don't own them haven't actually seen them in real life. This is completely laughable to think they haven't. Gamers and collectors regularly go to local GWs, Independents, events and gaming with friends, its highly unlikely the vast majority haven't seen primaris up close multiple times in the 2+ years since they were released.

I go to Dark Sphere and my home and work local Warhammers all the time, i have seen the full current range of primaris in person many times. I'm sure i'll see the new ones in the next couple of weeks.

Seeing them in person hasn't made me like them or changed my opinion their aethsetic is poor.

I also actually do own a few bits. I got a redemptor as i like the model, and its just basically a big dreadnought. I got a box of 5 Intercessors, and a few Dark Imperium Intercessors from a bits site, to see if i would like them after getting used to them (it didn't work). I also have the DA lieutenant and upgrade sprues, to use parts on my classic DA







Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 09:43:44


Post by: Grimtuff


Gitdakka wrote:
Its a strange statement that those who dislike primaris have not seen them. I mean we play the game and socialize. It's two years since release, of course we have all seen them appear in games. If we did not buy them some of our friends or opponents did. Do you think we live in caves or what?


Here’s a protip from me- stop answering this clearly troll account and stop quoting it (so I don’t see it). There is a reason I have that clown on ignore.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 11:18:54


Post by: Darkseid


The primaris range has been a huge hit and miss for me. Some models I really like, for instance the redemptor, intercessors, vanguard and most of the characters.

The rest of the range is imho mediocre to outright bad, with particular dislike for inceptors and most vehicles.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 13:23:47


Post by: Kaiyanwang


BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^Why would I have bought Dark Imperium?


not you in specific but I suspect most marine players did, it was a good value for the money and all. quite frankly if youve never first hand gotten a good look at primaris you proably should before you judge the model. even the repulsor isn't as bad in person.


I bought primaris on ebay for a small alpha-legion conversion project. And they are plenty in the shop nearby, people paint them and put them on display.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 13:42:10


Post by: Galef


BrianDavion wrote:
fun fact Phobos is the greek god of fear, thus phobos armor basicly translates as terror armor.
Makes sense, that's where the word 'phobia' comes from

as for Phobos being the future of all Primairs.. where the hell do you get that idea?
Every infantry model released since Shadowspear is in Phobo armour. Infiltrators/Incursors, every non-named Character, Eliminators, the light-dread pilot, etc.
Now, I'm not saying it doesn't make sense to have the lighter looking phobos armour in some cases, but so far the only models in the "classic" (if you can call it that) Primaris armour are Intercessors, Hellblasters and (I think) Suppressors, plus a handful of Characters. Everything else is Gravis or Phobos. All I am saying is that the non-Phobos, non-Gravis armour should be more common as it looks more like "classic" Space marine armour dialed to 11.

-


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 13:44:45


Post by: Sterling191


Suppressors are packing Omnis pattern armor. And frankly Im not all that worried that its a "phobos or bust" train. The initial release was nothing but Tacticus and Gravis with a single Phobos (which didnt even have the name at the time). It's an uneven release of the entire line.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 15:36:20


Post by: Ishagu


robbienw wrote:
Yes the argument that people who dislike primaris haven't seen them in person and therefore they cant comment on them is bizarre and desperate

First of all, you can absolutely determine if you like a model just from viewing it online.

Secondly, as if people who don't own them haven't actually seen them in real life. This is completely laughable to think they haven't. Gamers and collectors regularly go to local GWs, Independents, events and gaming with friends, its highly unlikely the vast majority haven't seen primaris up close multiple times in the 2+ years since they were released.

I go to Dark Sphere and my home and work local Warhammers all the time, i have seen the full current range of primaris in person many times. I'm sure i'll see the new ones in the next couple of weeks.

Seeing them in person hasn't made me like them or changed my opinion their aethsetic is poor.

I also actually do own a few bits. I got a redemptor as i like the model, and its just basically a big dreadnought. I got a box of 5 Intercessors, and a few Dark Imperium Intercessors from a bits site, to see if i would like them after getting used to them (it didn't work). I also have the DA lieutenant and upgrade sprues, to use parts on my classic DA







Hey I know you hate the Primaris, but you have to start making the switch eventually.

You can hate, and refuse, and make it hard on yourself and end up with a less supported army. Or you can enjoy the new, dynamic model range that is growing and evolving very quickly.

The haters can hate, and then can complain, but Games Workshop is selling models through the roof and the new Primaris kits will be massive hits.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 15:37:44


Post by: Martel732


Well we agree on something. I prefer primaris in most ways, but multi damage weapons have been a real problem .


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 15:46:25


Post by: Sluggaloo


I have mixed feelings about primaris.

Intercessor/Hellblaster design look amazing.

Gravis look fat and not in a good way.

Suppressors and inceptors look absolutely stupid as feth.

Phobos armour in general looks ok especially eliminators.

Repulsor and Impulsor look good but I avoid vehicles this edition.

Redemptor is awesome.... but +1 to the new babycarrier dread looking like a MCDs happymeal toy. That model has no place in a SM line. Ew.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 17:42:06


Post by: fraser1191


It actually makes sense lore wise for the this particular dread to have a non entombed marine.

Stealth missions are generally take longer and the redemptor "burns" up whoever is in the sarcophagus, so unless Primaris marines are dragging around refills for it it makes a bit more sense


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 18:08:39


Post by: Kaiyanwang


 Ishagu wrote:

You can hate, and refuse, and make it hard on yourself

What does this even mean? What is hard? Not buying armies and models I dislike?
It's quite simple for me my dude, I have no idea why it shouldn't. One can drop an army or a game altogether for these reasons (I don' think this it's the case with primaris, and for sure not for 40k as a whole at the moment).


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/09 23:36:25


Post by: robbienw


 Ishagu wrote:
robbienw wrote:
Yes the argument that people who dislike primaris haven't seen them in person and therefore they cant comment on them is bizarre and desperate

First of all, you can absolutely determine if you like a model just from viewing it online.

Secondly, as if people who don't own them haven't actually seen them in real life. This is completely laughable to think they haven't. Gamers and collectors regularly go to local GWs, Independents, events and gaming with friends, its highly unlikely the vast majority haven't seen primaris up close multiple times in the 2+ years since they were released.

I go to Dark Sphere and my home and work local Warhammers all the time, i have seen the full current range of primaris in person many times. I'm sure i'll see the new ones in the next couple of weeks.

Seeing them in person hasn't made me like them or changed my opinion their aethsetic is poor.

I also actually do own a few bits. I got a redemptor as i like the model, and its just basically a big dreadnought. I got a box of 5 Intercessors, and a few Dark Imperium Intercessors from a bits site, to see if i would like them after getting used to them (it didn't work). I also have the DA lieutenant and upgrade sprues, to use parts on my classic DA







Hey I know you hate the Primaris, but you have to start making the switch eventually.



Lol what, I don't have to switch anything. I'm not going to buy models I don't like, that would be absurd


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/10 01:56:49


Post by: HoundsofDemos


 Ishagu wrote:
robbienw wrote:
Yes the argument that people who dislike primaris haven't seen them in person and therefore they cant comment on them is bizarre and desperate

First of all, you can absolutely determine if you like a model just from viewing it online.

Secondly, as if people who don't own them haven't actually seen them in real life. This is completely laughable to think they haven't. Gamers and collectors regularly go to local GWs, Independents, events and gaming with friends, its highly unlikely the vast majority haven't seen primaris up close multiple times in the 2+ years since they were released.

I go to Dark Sphere and my home and work local Warhammers all the time, i have seen the full current range of primaris in person many times. I'm sure i'll see the new ones in the next couple of weeks.

Seeing them in person hasn't made me like them or changed my opinion their aethsetic is poor.

I also actually do own a few bits. I got a redemptor as i like the model, and its just basically a big dreadnought. I got a box of 5 Intercessors, and a few Dark Imperium Intercessors from a bits site, to see if i would like them after getting used to them (it didn't work). I also have the DA lieutenant and upgrade sprues, to use parts on my classic DA







Hey I know you hate the Primaris, but you have to start making the switch eventually.

You can hate, and refuse, and make it hard on yourself and end up with a less supported army. Or you can enjoy the new, dynamic model range that is growing and evolving very quickly.

The haters can hate, and then can complain, but Games Workshop is selling models through the roof and the new Primaris kits will be massive hits.


No, actually I don't have to switch ever. I'd leave the hobby behind before I give them a dime for a primaris kit.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/10 03:12:39


Post by: Insectum7


Another +1 for "No, I don't have to make a swtch."


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/10 04:03:52


Post by: BrianDavion


I don't think people will HAVE to make the switch, but I do think people will, inevitably adopt primaris. as more and more units come in people will find something they like.


Primaris marine models. @ 2019/08/10 17:54:17


Post by: robbienw


It’s far from inevitable.

We know from the Jes voxcast that the future Primaris release waves will be centred on the already existing armour types, the current wave being the Phobos one.

So if you already know you don’t like Primaris models, you are unlikely to like future ones we know will be based on Gravis, Omnis and Tacticus.