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Well, here's hoping it's something interesting. It would be nice to see some reworked kroot, some plastic auxillaries, maybe even a new alien race added to the Empire. They've been going battlesuit heavy fir a while now.
Of course, that all depends on if this is PA or just a stand alone release. PA, it's probably one model and some rules.
Someone on Bolter and Chainsword claims to have seen a picture of a plastic Shadowsun model. I dunno why they’d lie when we’ll know tomorrow if they were telling the truth or not.
ImAGeek wrote: Someone on Bolter and Chainsword claims to have seen a picture of a plastic Shadowsun model. I dunno why they’d lie when we’ll know tomorrow if they were telling the truth or not.
Well, if it's not a Shadowsun, they can still pull a classic Hastings and claim the model does exist, just that GW is holding it back for a few more years to thwart their genius-rumor-insights, and they'll be able to claim even more internetz-glory in 2025 or so, when there'll eventually be a plastic Shadowsun at some point, lol.
BrianDavion wrote: wait?! whats this a reveal for something to do with Xenos? but people claim that NEVER happens
Got to have something as target practice while the the PA5 is actually supplement for deathwatch or something. Name of the book doesn't tell what is going to be main focus of rules. See PA4.
Tha Tau Psychic Awakening book will mirror the Eldar book with Tau on both sides of the conflict. But because Tau are less important than Eldar, both sides have to share Shadowsun because releasing two Tau models would be excessive.
Geifer wrote: Tha Tau Psychic Awakening book will mirror the Eldar book with Tau on both sides of the conflict. But because Tau are less important than Eldar, both sides have to share Shadowsun because releasing two Tau models would be excessive.
actually tau vs farsight enclaves could be intreasting. the Tau vs the IoM storyline has been done to death after all
Geifer wrote: Tha Tau Psychic Awakening book will mirror the Eldar book with Tau on both sides of the conflict. But because Tau are less important than Eldar, both sides have to share Shadowsun because releasing two Tau models would be excessive.
At least they'd be having some rules, unlike the "no-Banshee-mask-Ynnari-Banshee" that's still waiting to have any rules for the supposedly "unique path" they walk, lol.
Did GW claim that it would be a new model for each book? Dahyak Grekh is still only available in BSF and they could give him a clamshell. That shadowsun looks really busy for a "stealth" command suit and it has 2 sets of arms. She might get a new datasheet if that picture is legit. Wonder if her drones are going to get a facelift too.
Geifer wrote: Tha Tau Psychic Awakening book will mirror the Eldar book with Tau on both sides of the conflict. But because Tau are less important than Eldar, both sides have to share Shadowsun because releasing two Tau models would be excessive.
actually tau vs farsight enclaves could be intreasting. the Tau vs the IoM storyline has been done to death after all
While I'm all for a little Tau civil war and it's probably about the upper limit a Psychic Awakening book and its associated, single new model release can handle, I maintain what Tau really need is more slave races. As has already been mentioned in this thread, GW has gone crazy on the big stompy robot angle and it's a shame because the most defining part upon their introduction was that they were a functioning alien coalition. That actually added something to 40k back in the day.
You'd think GW was ready for it too now that we have Mechanicus, Genestealer Cults, plastic Sisters...
DominayTrix wrote: Did GW claim that it would be a new model for each book? Dahyak Grekh is still only available in BSF and they could give him a clamshell. That shadowsun looks really busy for a "stealth" command suit and it has 2 sets of arms. She might get a new datasheet if that picture is legit. Wonder if her drones are going to get a facelift too.
No.
GW did not claim there would be a model per book, and the first Psychic Awakening had several new models in the box, including Jain Zar, Banshees, Incubi and Drazhar.
But Faith & Fury had a Chaos Sorcerer, Blood of Baal had Mepthiston and the Ritual of the Damned seems to have only the Dark Angels Captain from what's previewed thus far.
I'd expect some Psychic Awakening or another to coincide with a larger release again at some point. If they wanna cover the remaining 15ish factions or so that were promised a Psychic Awakening treatment, it's bound to happen. But quite a few books, it seems, will come out with a single model.
DominayTrix wrote: Did GW claim that it would be a new model for each book? Dahyak Grekh is still only available in BSF and they could give him a clamshell. That shadowsun looks really busy for a "stealth" command suit and it has 2 sets of arms. She might get a new datasheet if that picture is legit. Wonder if her drones are going to get a facelift too.
None of the Blackstone Fortress Explorer characters can be given clamshells, as they're on shared sprues.
It's one of the big issues with the Explorers side of things.
DominayTrix wrote: Did GW claim that it would be a new model for each book? Dahyak Grekh is still only available in BSF and they could give him a clamshell. That shadowsun looks really busy for a "stealth" command suit and it has 2 sets of arms. She might get a new datasheet if that picture is legit. Wonder if her drones are going to get a facelift too.
No.
GW did not claim there would be a model per book, and the first Psychic Awakening had several new models in the box, including Jain Zar, Banshees, Incubi and Drazhar.
But Faith & Fury had a Chaos Sorcerer, Blood of Baal had Mepthiston and the Ritual of the Damned seems to have only the Dark Angels Captain from what's previewed thus far.
I'd expect some Psychic Awakening or another to coincide with a larger release again at some point. If they wanna cover the remaining 15ish factions or so that were promised a Psychic Awakening treatment, it's bound to happen. But quite a few books, it seems, will come out with a single model.
When they revealed names for next 3 they did say each is accompanied by mighty hero.
So yes they did. Does anything else come? No proof for either way but odds are good it's no.
Carnikang wrote: Well, here's hoping it's something interesting. It would be nice to see some reworked kroot, some plastic auxillaries, maybe even a new alien race added to the Empire. They've been going battlesuit heavy fir a while now.
Of course, that all depends on if this is PA or just a stand alone release. PA, it's probably one model and some rules.
Lol. No:
It will be Space Wolves Primaris Wolven Von Wolfenstein, Master of the Claw and Lord of the Wolftime.
Tau will get 6 gakky stratagems and a three page list of O'insert word here names you can randomly generate for the single commander you're allowed to bring in your army, because balancing rules is hard.
ok the one on the side that's a but cut off is clearly a pentient engine. what's the one beside it that the CSMs are facing down? maybe a SOB Anchorite?
looking at the pic of shadowsun we can clearly see genestealers. greater good could be tau vs GSCs
BrianDavion wrote: ok the one on the side that's a but cut off is clearly a pentient engine. what's the one beside it that the CSMs are facing down? maybe a SOB Anchorite?
looking at the pic of shadowsun we can clearly see genestealers. greater good could be tau vs GSCs
The Mortifier I would assume, or whatever it's called, the alternate build from the same kit with exponentially better rules.
Tau vs GSC could be interesting. That looks like a Missilepod on top of her Fusion Blaster on the right arm, if so she could be getting a new datasheet.
BrianDavion wrote: ok the one on the side that's a but cut off is clearly a pentient engine. what's the one beside it that the CSMs are facing down? maybe a SOB Anchorite?
looking at the pic of shadowsun we can clearly see genestealers. greater good could be tau vs GSCs
The Mortifier I would assume, or whatever it's called, the alternate build from the same kit with exponentially better rules.
Tau vs GSC could be interesting. That looks like a Missilepod on top of her Fusion Blaster on the right arm, if so she could be getting a new datasheet.
I don't think I've ever seen GW release a revamped character model without putting out a new datasheet even if it just tweeks their stat line
BrianDavion wrote: ok the one on the side that's a but cut off is clearly a pentient engine. what's the one beside it that the CSMs are facing down? maybe a SOB Anchorite?
looking at the pic of shadowsun we can clearly see genestealers. greater good could be tau vs GSCs
The Mortifier I would assume, or whatever it's called, the alternate build from the same kit with exponentially better rules.
Tau vs GSC could be interesting. That looks like a Missilepod on top of her Fusion Blaster on the right arm, if so she could be getting a new datasheet.
I don't think I've ever seen GW release a revamped character model without putting out a new datasheet even if it just tweeks their stat line
True, but she can't take missile pods at the moment so that would mean a notable change already.
Tau vs GSC could be interesting. That looks like a Missilepod on top of her Fusion Blaster on the right arm, if so she could be getting a new datasheet.
Honestly? It looks like she's using slightly downsized Fusion Colliders instead of Fusion Blasters.
BrianDavion wrote: ok the one on the side that's a but cut off is clearly a pentient engine. what's the one beside it that the CSMs are facing down? maybe a SOB Anchorite?
looking at the pic of shadowsun we can clearly see genestealers. greater good could be tau vs GSCs
The Mortifier I would assume, or whatever it's called, the alternate build from the same kit with exponentially better rules.
Tau vs GSC could be interesting. That looks like a Missilepod on top of her Fusion Blaster on the right arm, if so she could be getting a new datasheet.
I don't think I've ever seen GW release a revamped character model without putting out a new datasheet even if it just tweeks their stat line
True, but she can't take missile pods at the moment so that would mean a notable change already.
Theophony wrote: What about the genestealers with armored pants above.
That's actually a really good catch! The Purestrain Genestealers were very well-received...maybe this is a kit for them?
The current kit has those 'kneeplates' as modeled directly onto the exoskeleton:
Spoiler:
The Shadowsun image has a notable protrusion that none of the current images I can find have:
Spoiler:
They're the same. I recognize it from painting genestealers. They all have the boney squarish plate on the knee, it's just poorly defined in the picture on the site. This one is edgehighlighted. On top of that, look under the back foot of the front stealer. Its on of the mini capillary towers that comes on their slotta for the 25mm bases. The claws and hands also match. They're just painted better in the GSC purestrain scheme from the codex.
Kanluwen wrote: Look directly above the drone at the left leg of the Genestealer.
It's physically different, not just the paint job, causing that look.
That's because they're the two genestealers from the Deathwatch Overkill boxset where the knee was slightly more pronounced, rather than the multipart kit.
That's because they're the two genestealers from the Deathwatch Overkill boxset where the knee was slightly more pronounced, rather than the multipart kit.
And that was an updated design and one that is no longer available. It was really bizarre, they updated the genestealers, then discontinued the box the updated ones came in and just continued selling the old sculpts. Makes no sense at all. I wish they'd release Overkill-style stealers.
That's because they're the two genestealers from the Deathwatch Overkill boxset where the knee was slightly more pronounced, rather than the multipart kit.
And that was an updated design and one that is no longer available. It was really bizarre, they updated the genestealers, then discontinued the box the updated ones came in and just continued selling the old sculpts. Makes no sense at all. I wish they'd release Overkill-style stealers.
Cults getting a start collecting box with the monopose contents of Overkill would be in line with Vanguard/Daemonkin start collectings. Might also explain why it's taken so long for Cults to get one despite their contents seemingly being listed in the codex.
Kanluwen wrote: Look directly above the drone at the left leg of the Genestealer.
It's physically different, not just the paint job, causing that look.
Those are the Deathwatch: Overkill versions I believe. They have much more rectangular knees.
Spoiler:
Interesting. Even those don't actually match, unless the angles are really messing with that Shadowsun image.
The angle is. The purple light being shown on the Genestealers is also a factor.
Again, it's a normal Genestealer from the current kit. I pointed out exactly which one it is above.
Shadowsun and Genestealers that might be new or might not be and whatever else might be slated.
It, IMO, feels like it might be another Blood of the Phoenix box. We didn't get one for Faith and Fury or Blood of Baal and we don't seem to be getting one for Dark Ritual.
Greater Good is a February release from the schedule that GW themselves gave us so there's some time for them to build it up like they did BoTP's set if there's new kits like BoTP.
Kanluwen wrote: Shadowsun and Genestealers that might be new or might not be and whatever else might be slated.
It, IMO, feels like it might be another Blood of the Phoenix box. We didn't get one for Faith and Fury or Blood of Baal and we don't seem to be getting one for Dark Ritual.
Greater Good is a February release from the schedule that GW themselves gave us so there's some time for them to build it up like they did BoTP's set if there's new kits like BoTP.
Oh please, I hope not. Only wanted the Banshees and Jain but £140 was soul destroying. For it to happen a second time would be a real kick in the nuts.
Kanluwen wrote: We're going to have to agree to disagree, frankly, because I'm seeing an actual distinct gap where you're seeing paint job based upon your experience.
It's an old Stealer model I'm afraid.
Shadowsun being more armsy is... a thing I guess? For the Greater Four-Armed Good? T'au Cult confirmed?
Shadowsun being more armsy is... a thing I guess? For the Greater Four-Armed Good? T'au Cult confirmed?
She's got a different weapon loadout than before. She seems to be carrying around Ghostkeel weaponry in the form of twin Fusion Colliders--or some pseudo-Fusion Collider variant--rather than her normal Fusion Blasters.
I'm hoping that this might end up being a new classification of suit that we get a unit variant of.
The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
So if it's Tau vs Genestealers and Tau get a new Shadowsun I demand a fat Patriarch sitting on a throne. There was a named one in an old WD, forgot its name....
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
Steve Parkers Deathwatch novel does that in spades.
There are lots of great things they could do with this including non human hybrids - that would very cool.
Small scale - the corruption of single Tau world
Larger scale - GSC inflitration of the Ethereal Council - we know at least one is a GS from their codex.
Epic scale - War between the Enclave and the Empire due to the GSC influence.
Sadly I don't think that they will do more than - new named human/Tau world gets infected, Tau have to fight the GSC, nothing really matters.
Dryaktylus wrote: So if it's Tau vs Genestealers and Tau get a new Shadowsun I demand a fat Patriarch sitting on a throne. There was a named one in an old WD, forgot its name....
Patriarch Ghosar, of the Trysst Dynasty from the Ghosar Quintess system. Features in DW:OK
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
Small scale - the corruption of single Tau world
Larger scale - GSC inflitration of the Ethereal Council - we know at least one is a GS from their codex.
Epic scale - War between the Enclave and the Empire due to the GSC influence.
Sadly I don't think that they will do more than - new named human/Tau world gets infected, Tau have to fight the GSC, nothing really matters.
Which is just fine. I'd love more detail on small scale conflicts that are are *only* about the fate of one world, not "RAW!!!!! Big exploding and dying all over the place, now galaxy is x1000 times more Grim because storyline!, Also spahce marines 10 feet tall!". We tell the stories with 40k, they make the backdrop and the tools to do it, as far as I'm concerned.
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, they will be forgiven anything if they make a fat genestealer on a throne.
That's because they're the two genestealers from the Deathwatch Overkill boxset where the knee was slightly more pronounced, rather than the multipart kit.
And that was an updated design and one that is no longer available. It was really bizarre, they updated the genestealers, then discontinued the box the updated ones came in and just continued selling the old sculpts. Makes no sense at all. I wish they'd release Overkill-style stealers.
That wasn't an update. That was a callback to the original space hulk genestealers all the way back at the beginning. They all head that wrinkled fleshy area in middle of the back. They did the two overkill models as a tribute.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
Small scale - the corruption of single Tau world
Larger scale - GSC inflitration of the Ethereal Council - we know at least one is a GS from their codex.
Epic scale - War between the Enclave and the Empire due to the GSC influence.
Sadly I don't think that they will do more than - new named human/Tau world gets infected, Tau have to fight the GSC, nothing really matters.
Which is just fine. I'd love more detail on small scale conflicts that are are *only* about the fate of one world, not "RAW!!!!! Big exploding and dying all over the place, now galaxy is x1000 times more Grim because storyline!, Also spahce marines 10 feet tall!". We tell the stories with 40k, they make the backdrop and the tools to do it, as far as I'm concerned.
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, they will be forgiven anything if they make a fat genestealer on a throne.
I agree, but PA is meant to be "the biggest thing since the 13th Black Crusade" so tiny, backwater skirmishes don't really fit their attempt at a hype train.
That being said, I won't expect much more than Shadowsun getting reports the Enclave forces are slaughtering a loyal Tau/Human world, only to investigate and discover it's actually GSC, then Farsight shows up at the last minute and turns the tide.
Platuan4th wrote: Is Farsoght pulling the regular Tau's fat out of the fryer going to be his thing now? That was basically Mont'ka/Kau'yon's ending already...
Just like Chaos almost beating Imperial worlds, then Primaris show up and they lose, until it turns out Chaos meant to lose as some plan we'll never hear about again. Yes.
...egh, Farsight doesn't need to be the answer to every problem, but i wouldnt be shocked. seems he's rather favored nowadays...
im just gonna focus on the fact it's involving GSC. is this how the PA will go? i had a lot of other things under expectation. suddenly GSC instead?...
"the greater good."... ooh. OOH. that so works for GSC's intent.
here's a thought, what if it's discovered that a large portion of the human worlds the Tau took are THICK with a GSC infestation. the Tau I suspect would be VERY vunerable to that type of infiltration
...haven't the Tau had to content with bits of splinter fleets in the past? getting set up by GSC could really add up. it wouldnt be hard to preach a... "new" Greater Good, shall we say?
OOOOH!!!! and i had just spent time considering GSC. could this really flow as such? i am VERY intrigued... most of my xeno races lining up.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
If we take the Ciaphas Cain BL novels as canon, then it wouldn't be a surprise to find GSC on Tau worlds.
Spoiler:
I give you the ending of For the Emperor as a source
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
If we take the Ciaphas Cain BL novels as canon, then it wouldn't be a surprise to find GSC on Tau worlds.
Spoiler:
I give you the ending of For the Emperor as a source
I would love if that incident was referred to or directly mentioned.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "We realised that having her leading only a specific Sept meant that people weren't buying the miniature. So... now she can lead anyone!"
Looking forward to when Guilliman can lead any Marine force/Abaddon can lead any Chaos force.
Still, glad she kept her helmet.
Never made sense for her to be sept locked to begin with. She is the foremost Shas'O in the empire, and have led multiple Kau'Vaals (coalitions)
H.B.M.C. wrote: "We realised that having her leading only a specific Sept meant that people weren't buying the miniature. So... now she can lead anyone!"
Looking forward to when Guilliman can lead any Marine force/Abaddon can lead any Chaos force.
Still, glad she kept her helmet.
Never made sense for her to be sept locked to begin with. She is the foremost Shas'O in the empire, and have led multiple Kau'Vaals (coalitions)
That does apply to most characters - esepcially as noted Guiliman and Adaddon?
Not to be that guy, but barring significant changes there are very few reasons not to be mainly Tau Sept in a Tau army anyway.
Given it's probably the best tactic, almost all the special characters and an essential stratagem and okay relic in a sea of rubbish. Warlord trait not great but none are meta defining.
Arguably "Ultramarines" are now a thing in themselves separate from other Marine factions so Guilliman being locked makes a bit of sense. Locking things out by chapter on smaller Xenos factions is less sensible.
okay, annoyances out of the way first. so it says in the article she has weapon choices. forgive me if im wrong, but this isn't normal to named characters anymore is it? does this mean with weapon options she'll have to tally her points without the options built in? if so, if you were taking her for her commanding abilities instead of equipment, this is probably a jump in points in exchange for weaponry. I wonder how useful the new Shadowsun will be.
now for what im sure will sound like a massive nothing, but im really getting tired of this. why is GW getting more and more into putting masonry for models to stand on? I know it's not necessarily the case, but i dislike it as it comes off to me as unnecessary, the model seeming unstable, and i prefer my models not designed in such a fashion, and either flying if they must or flat on the base. i get it makes them more dynamic to others eyes sometimes, but it directly takes away for me, and they just keep hitting this button more often to me.
upsides. definitely a solid model aside from my gripes with the masonry. my favorite of the reveals thusfar in 40k. second is im very much glad this also opens up where you can take the model. no longer being Tau sept locked is a big deal if it means they will unhook restrictions like this in the future, though i question the cost. i wish they had done this earlier, although i wonder exactly how this will impact her further insider her own army based on the wording of the rule change...
Tyel wrote: Not to be that guy, but barring significant changes there are very few reasons not to be mainly Tau Sept in a Tau army anyway.
Ghostkeel detachments want to be Bork'An, and Shadowsun is the only thematic leader currently. (Unless you count the Sa'Cea Crisis commander with the sept specific wargear, but meh)
Also if she’s finished testing XV22 shouldn’t it be going into full production as XV25-02 for regular stealth units?
You mean going into full production as a generic XV22 Commander which has been wanted for all these years. People want to make pure stealth armies (Kroot kinda count in the troops slot, but Stealth Suits should be able to become troops somehow)
Bdrone wrote: why is GW getting more and more into putting masonry for models to stand on? I know it's not necessarily the case, but i dislike it as it comes off to me as unnecessary
I definitely agree with you, but this one isn't as terrible as Drazhar's, and is easier to remove too, without needing to be replaced with something else to justify the pose of the model. Although I plan to have a dead Space Marine under the right raised leg.
Bdrone wrote: why is GW getting more and more into putting masonry for models to stand on? I know it's not necessarily the case, but i dislike it as it comes off to me as unnecessary
I definitely agree with you, but this one isn't as terrible as Drazhar's, and is easier to remove too, without needing to be replaced with something else to justify the pose of the model. Although I plan to have a dead Space Marine under the right raised leg.
I best go figure out how to do that then. seems like there's always something with a new release that throws it off for me. if she was on a flying base then this model would be fine, perfect even but who keeps making this call to add these. "Resting" models to me just are better (i just like both feet on the ground), and this is gonna have to be a side thing to do to not find myself "modeling for advantage".
..i just looked at Drazhar's model. friggin why did they do that? the same kinda masonry most of the harlequin models have, but they decided to... criss-cross the bits?! im really starting to wonder about this stuff.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
If we take the Ciaphas Cain BL novels as canon, then it wouldn't be a surprise to find GSC on Tau worlds.
Spoiler:
I give you the ending of For the Emperor as a source
That was a terribly written ending that made no sense and couldn't possibly have happened. Tau themselves cannot fall to GSC infestation due to the way the empire is designed and Tau children are raised. Perhaps in the human population but not in the Tau population.
I'm a bit surprised by the sloppy paint job on the crest on her chest though... Eavy Metal pls thin yo paints
I wonder whether she'll be able to lead Farsight Enclaves... That would both be hilarious and a good excuse for me to dust off my blue space fish again.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "We realised that having her leading only a specific Sept meant that people weren't buying the miniature. So... now she can lead anyone!"
Looking forward to when Guilliman can lead any Marine force/Abaddon can lead any Chaos force.
Still, glad she kept her helmet.
They should do this with basically all special characters. Faction locked characters are annoying and most of the time the unit can represent a similar character belonging to another faction. The Primarchs are an exception, as they're actually truly unique. (Well, there are very limited and known number of them.)
That wasn't an update. That was a callback to the original space hulk genestealers all the way back at the beginning. They all head that wrinkled fleshy area in middle of the back. They did the two overkill models as a tribute.
Sure, it was a callback, but also an update. Sometimes older visual cues return. And it looked much better, the backs of the current stealers are flat and horrible looking.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
If we take the Ciaphas Cain BL novels as canon, then it wouldn't be a surprise to find GSC on Tau worlds.
Spoiler:
I give you the ending of For the Emperor as a source
That was a terribly written ending that made no sense and couldn't possibly have happened. Tau themselves cannot fall to GSC infestation due to the way the empire is designed and Tau children are raised. Perhaps in the human population but not in the Tau population.
It also in the GSC Codex that an infestation took hold on a Tau planet and it is heavily implied that at least one Etheral is infected.
You overestimate the Tau and underestimate the GSC.
What exaclty made no sense about that ending anyway - it was a pragmatic descision by the Inquisitor on planet - let my enemies fight each other, we don't know if it worked but it made perfect sense for her to try it.
Its less risky than leting Orks and Tryanids fight as they both grow stronger by the mere act of fighting each other.
Oh wow that Tau model lokks awful, It looks like she's got the mumps or something Hopefully the Tau players like the look of it and it's cool to see some more Xenos releases.
Maybe they will have heard the critisims about the lack of story in the last PA book and put a bit more in this one?
Kroem wrote: Oh wow that Tau model lokks awful, It looks like she's got the mumps or something Hopefully the Tau players like the look of it and it's cool to see some more Xenos releases.
Maybe they will have heard the critisims about the lack of story in the last PA book and put a bit more in this one?
Not likely, production lead times of 6+ months are a thing.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
If we take the Ciaphas Cain BL novels as canon, then it wouldn't be a surprise to find GSC on Tau worlds.
Spoiler:
I give you the ending of For the Emperor as a source
That was a terribly written ending that made no sense and couldn't possibly have happened. Tau themselves cannot fall to GSC infestation due to the way the empire is designed and Tau children are raised. Perhaps in the human population but not in the Tau population.
It also in the GSC Codex that an infestation took hold on a Tau planet and it is heavily implied that at least one Etheral is infected.
You overestimate the Tau and underestimate the GSC.
What exaclty made no sense about that ending anyway - it was a pragmatic descision by the Inquisitor on planet - let my enemies fight each other, we don't know if it worked but it made perfect sense for her to try it.
Its less risky than leting Orks and Tryanids fight as they both grow stronger by the mere act of fighting each other.
The GSC Codex is one story I missed so I need to read it. I might also have been thinking of Deathwatch: Shadowbreaker which has the same GSC cult at the end on a Tau world and it was a terrible ending that shouldn't have happened like that.
My understanding of GSC is that Genestealer infections can only thrive in large, and relatively open societies. The Tau societies are the very opposite being completely closed and completely pre planed. The entire cast system the Tau use is designed to control genetic differences. Given the structure I don’t understand how a Cult could grown over multiple generations. The cult would have no control over its offspring, offspring which should be caught and destroyed at any number of stages.
The Tau practice selective breeding without family units and the family units are key for Genestealer infections to take hold. Genetic matches are made for what is best for the Greater Good with Genetic screening and matching. Everyone has genetic screening which should in its self stop any Genestealer infections getting past the first stage.
Then the embryos are taken away from the twoTau that got matched and are brought up in test tubes with more genetic screening. Then the children are moved into a group unit caches to be raised as a group without any contact from the parents again with extensive monitoring. There is also no interbreeding between the castes as all matches are pre-selected. The Tau system of breeding doesn't seem compatible to me with how are the Genesteale cults breed over multiple generations. How are they meant to hide the extra children or deformities and breed purestrains when they have no contact with the children and the children are genetic screened? Tau societies are to regimented and planed out to allow random Tau to have random unknown children. Now the humans in the Tau empire that's a different story.
The other problem is the Tau know all about the GSC. One would think they would add security measures and tests into there standard genetic screening tests. Its goes against there nature to be stupid enough to ignore that threat time and time again when its so easy to solve given there empire structure.
A GSC cult is probably harder to establish given the nature of Tau society, but if the get luck initially will be far easier to get a deep hold
Genetic screening is certainly a risk but once a child is screened and the data recored there isn't any real reason to repeat the test (unless they've got suspicions something might be wrong like heavy radiation exposure or alien infestation)
Genestealer genetic material may not be recognised by normal screening (if its not based on the same chemisty), so rountine tests might show only a 'normal' tau profile
if the folk running the creche are infected little billy 3 arms will be fine, and if the cult are in the breeding center it could well be all kids will be infected (as well as any tau who attend the centre)
The Genestealer's Kiss also rewires the host's brain to have an overwhelming drive to protect the hybrid baby. A Tau host likely does everything it can to hide the pregnancy, then hides the child until it's ready to infect a new host and create a new generation that's easier to hide among the population. It's not like an Imperial population is going to allow a three-armed hybrid baby to live. "Suffer not the mutant to live" is literally in the Imperial Creed. Infiltrating societies that are difficult to infiltrate is literally what the Genestealers do.
Pandabeer wrote: I wonder whether she'll be able to lead Farsight Enclaves... That would both be hilarious and a good excuse for me to dust off my blue space fish again.
That would be hilarious, though it says at the bottom of the page
H.B.M.C. wrote: "We realised that having her leading only a specific Sept meant that people weren't buying the miniature. So... now she can lead anyone!"
Looking forward to when Guilliman can lead any Marine force/Abaddon can lead any Chaos force.
Still, glad she kept her helmet.
Guilliman, Lord commander of the Imperium
He also just has rules that affect anything with the Imperium keyword
Also if she’s finished testing XV22 shouldn’t it be going into full production as XV25-02 for regular stealth units?
You mean going into full production as a generic XV22 Commander which has been wanted for all these years. People want to make pure stealth armies (Kroot kinda count in the troops slot, but Stealth Suits should be able to become troops somehow).
No, I mean following the fluff that she’s prototype testing a next gen stealth suit, or at least was before the several century time skip
Also a dedicated commander variant in full production wouldn’t be XV22 either, it would be either XV24, or more likely XV25 with a dash and a subtype number.
An XV22 suit is specifically a size class 2 suit in the field testing phase, though admittedly even GW have been making mistakes with this recently such as the repeated typo classing the XV8-05 commander suit as XV85 (it has no stealth capabilities, it is in no way an 85).
okay, annoyances out of the way first. so it says in the article she has weapon choices. forgive me if im wrong, but this isn't normal to named characters anymore is it? does this mean with weapon options she'll have to tally her points without the options built in? if so, if you were taking her for her commanding abilities instead of equipment, this is probably a jump in points in exchange for weaponry. I wonder how useful the new Shadowsun will be.
Just means base cost will drop assuming GW doesn't decide the alternative weapons are worth same. Special characters didn't get weapons for free before anyway.
okay, annoyances out of the way first. so it says in the article she has weapon choices. forgive me if im wrong, but this isn't normal to named characters anymore is it? does this mean with weapon options she'll have to tally her points without the options built in? if so, if you were taking her for her commanding abilities instead of equipment, this is probably a jump in points in exchange for weaponry. I wonder how useful the new Shadowsun will be.
Just means base cost will drop assuming GW doesn't decide the alternative weapons are worth same. Special characters didn't get weapons for free before anyway.
I don't think it's actually "weapon choices". It reads like it's a poorly worded way of saying there's fire modes for the Fusion Blasters.
Her newly up-gunned battlesuit now comes equipped as standard with an arsenal of weapons, from a flechette launcher to light missile pod, and the choice of tank-busting high-energy fusion blasters or Space Marine-melting dispersed fusion blasters.
okay, annoyances out of the way first. so it says in the article she has weapon choices. forgive me if im wrong, but this isn't normal to named characters anymore is it? does this mean with weapon options she'll have to tally her points without the options built in? if so, if you were taking her for her commanding abilities instead of equipment, this is probably a jump in points in exchange for weaponry. I wonder how useful the new Shadowsun will be.
Just means base cost will drop assuming GW doesn't decide the alternative weapons are worth same. Special characters didn't get weapons for free before anyway.
I don't think it's actually "weapon choices". It reads like it's a poorly worded way of saying there's fire modes for the Fusion Blasters.
Her newly up-gunned battlesuit now comes equipped as standard with an arsenal of weapons, from a flechette launcher to light missile pod, and the choice of tank-busting high-energy fusion blasters or Space Marine-melting dispersed fusion blasters.
They’re 2 separate weapons. The front of the weapons are the same, but the back end is different for the different types. The box comes with 2 of each back for the guns.
I think I like the old model more. The second set of linked arms does not work. Given everything the Tau have, needing a second set of arms that are linked to the exposed primary arms seems like a pretty significant design setback for the Tau Empire. Shadowsun must be piloting the Tau version for the F-35.
After trillions of T'ollars and years of designing. They couldn't make the guns smaller to fit on the old suit but promised a small suit of armor so they couldn't make the suit bigger. So the Earth caste shrugged and slapped a set of redundant bigger arms on the suit to carry the oversized guns on the undersized armor. And just hoped nobody would noticed they built some Imperial frankenstein with Tau money.
I mean, from back in the day, O'shaserra always had that silouette of gigantic guns in his arms. Is not that different from the original concept art. And maybe is optional or easy to build her without those extra set of arms for the jumpack.
Galas wrote: In an anime of mechas, if you want to beff up your mega-suit, you ALWAYS give him an extra set of arms with mega weapons.
You guys should watch more anime.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Gundam/Mobile suit carry Saber, and Beam rifle, gun,... that they can use in conjunction with their "extra arms"(and even unarmed, their hand is a flexible 5-fingers hand that's useful for many task, not stumpy Tau battlesuit hand),
For a Tau Battlesuit any arm is a hardpoint to mount more weapons, but for Shadowsun the 2 unarmed arms are not sculpted with similar hardpoint slot like the XV8 suit, so it served little purpose other than to use the pistol, which is ridiculously puny weapon for a battlesuit
That comparison is an insult to anime creator, the gundam themselves usually had more gun/missile in their head, chest, arms. I can make sense of Anime's mecha design, for GW's Shadowsun design however, required very high IQ to understand.
I find her quite weird actually ugly. Her armor is more oval than the usual Tau design. The thighs are enormous and she's quite fat.
The proportion are off and four arms with huge guns doesn't help either.
Modock wrote: I find her quite weird actually ugly. Her armor is more oval than the usual Tau design. The thighs are enormous and she's quite fat.
The proportion are off and four arms with huge guns doesn't help either.
Other than the word oval, you've just described the overall tau mech asthetic.
Galas wrote: In an anime of mechas, if you want to beff up your mega-suit, you ALWAYS give him an extra set of arms with mega weapons.
You guys should watch more anime.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Gundam/Mobile suit carry Saber, and Beam rifle, gun,... that they can use in conjunction with their "extra arms"(and even unarmed, their hand is a flexible 5-fingers hand that's useful for many task, not stumpy Tau battlesuit hand),
For a Tau Battlesuit any arm is a hardpoint to mount more weapons, but for Shadowsun the 2 unarmed arms are not sculpted with similar hardpoint slot like the XV8 suit, so it served little purpose other than to use the pistol, which is ridiculously puny weapon for a battlesuit
That comparison is an insult to anime creator, the gundam themselves usually had more gun/missile in their head, chest, arms. I can make sense of Anime's mecha design, for GW's Shadowsun design however, required very high IQ to understand.
We know Tau can wear their battlesuits as if its their body so why they needed linked little/big arms makes zero sense. If shadowsun's armor needed heavier arms to carry heavier guns, they would have just made the arms heavier. She doesn't need to actually have her arms inside the arms. Like every other tau battlesuit.
Modock wrote: I find her quite weird actually ugly. Her armor is more oval than the usual Tau design. The thighs are enormous and she's quite fat.
The proportion are off and four arms with huge guns doesn't help either.
Other than the word oval, you've just described the overall tau mech asthetic.
Modock wrote: I find her quite weird actually ugly. Her armor is more oval than the usual Tau design. The thighs are enormous and she's quite fat.
The proportion are off and four arms with huge guns doesn't help either.
TBH compared with Infinity's wasp waisted mechas, everything will be fat.
And yes, for Tau :
Boxy suits = Assault/Combat/Artillery suits
Rounded suits = Stealth suits.
I think she looks better once you remove the second pair of 'gauntlets' and attach the guns directly to the real gauntlets and the remaining support struts.
Modock wrote: I find her quite weird actually ugly. Her armor is more oval than the usual Tau design. The thighs are enormous and she's quite fat.
The proportion are off and four arms with huge guns doesn't help either.
TBH compared with Infinity's wasp waisted mechas, everything will be fat.
And yes, for Tau :
Boxy suits = Assault/Combat/Artillery suits
Rounded suits = Stealth suits.
I didn't want to bring Tags into this but please don't insult Infinity with that abomination of a design.
I usually rank GW's models above most competitors, but that Infinity suit/mech is a clear example of them having an easily superior take on the same concept. How big is it? Would make a nice crisis or stealth suit...
Crimson wrote: I usually rank GW's models above most competitors, but that Infinity suit/mech is a clear example of them having an easily superior take on the same concept. How big is it? Would make a nice crisis or stealth suit...
I mean, I love infinity (I literally live in the same city where they have their production facilities and main HQ ) desings and I agree they are much superior to GW take.
Thats also because they remain more faithfull to the original anime aesthetic and don't try to bring anime concepts to "heroic western" proportions.
I believe she would look better with the second pair of arms being bigger. I agree she looks a little strange with two sets of arms that look exactly the same. But nonetheless, I love the miniature.
I was just commenting on Shadowsun aesthetics because I was excited about Tau finally getting a new model after like 4-5 years now and she disappointed.
Btw I like Tau, I collect them.
I'm of mixed feelings with the sculpt, but I do like that they're leaning a bit heavier on the ghostkeel aesthetic, which I absolutely adore.
Interchangeable weapons on a unique character is odd to me, but at the very least, I hope she at least can bring enough firepower to ease the pain of losing a Coldstar or Enforcer through her unique Fusion variants.
Also, it's apparently been, what, centuries since she started testing out the XV-22 suit?
Enough of the hoarding, Shadowsun! Give it the go-ahead, and put that baby out into production!
Unusual Suspect wrote: I'm of mixed feelings with the sculpt, but I do like that they're leaning a bit heavier on the ghostkeel aesthetic, which I absolutely adore.
Interchangeable weapons on a unique character is odd to me, but at the very least, I hope she at least can bring enough firepower to ease the pain of losing a Coldstar or Enforcer through her unique Fusion variants.
Also, it's apparently been, what, centuries since she started testing out the XV-22 suit?
Enough of the hoarding, Shadowsun! Give it the go-ahead, and put that baby out into production!
A mech should never grip a weapon with robotic hands and fingers. If that happens I'm calling the police. Integrated or underslung weapons are the only way for mecha not to look stupid.
Unusual Suspect wrote: I'm of mixed feelings with the sculpt, but I do like that they're leaning a bit heavier on the ghostkeel aesthetic, which I absolutely adore.
Interchangeable weapons on a unique character is odd to me, but at the very least, I hope she at least can bring enough firepower to ease the pain of losing a Coldstar or Enforcer through her unique Fusion variants.
Also, it's apparently been, what, centuries since she started testing out the XV-22 suit?
Enough of the hoarding, Shadowsun! Give it the go-ahead, and put that baby out into production!
Also, explain how you’re not dead?!
Easily done on both counts. Sitting out the eons in the freezer grants eternal life and precious few opportunities to test the suit outside of whether it prevents freezer burn.
Crimson wrote: I usually rank GW's models above most competitors, but that Infinity suit/mech is a clear example of them having an easily superior take on the same concept. How big is it? Would make a nice crisis or stealth suit...
Strangely enough, though I generally like the larger Infinity models, Shadowsun channels more of what made Appleseed landmates such a striking iteration of the big mecha suit trope. She's more compact, the volumes are better defined without feeling like a bunch of random crap thrown together and the proportions are better (and I can't believe I just said that about a GW model).
So yeah, I might actually buy a Tau model in the year 2020.
Also, apparently this is how Shadowsun sits in her new suit:
Yes, that’s always been the difference between the XV8+ size suits and the XV15 and XV2* series; the large suits are full neural interface mechs, with the pilot just bundled up in the body (they even show it in the Ghostkeel), whereas the smaller suits are basically power armour. Which gives a reason why they can’t just give it bigger arms (YMMV).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, definitely building her using the helmet, but some interesting conversion possibilities rattling around in my brain to use that visored head; cadre fireblade, firesight marksman, other??
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
If we take the Ciaphas Cain BL novels as canon, then it wouldn't be a surprise to find GSC on Tau worlds.
Spoiler:
I give you the ending of For the Emperor as a source
That was a terribly written ending that made no sense and couldn't possibly have happened. Tau themselves cannot fall to GSC infestation due to the way the empire is designed and Tau children are raised. Perhaps in the human population but not in the Tau population.
It also in the GSC Codex that an infestation took hold on a Tau planet and it is heavily implied that at least one Etheral is infected.
You overestimate the Tau and underestimate the GSC.
What exaclty made no sense about that ending anyway - it was a pragmatic descision by the Inquisitor on planet - let my enemies fight each other, we don't know if it worked but it made perfect sense for her to try it.
Its less risky than leting Orks and Tryanids fight as they both grow stronger by the mere act of fighting each other.
The GSC Codex is one story I missed so I need to read it. I might also have been thinking of Deathwatch: Shadowbreaker which has the same GSC cult at the end on a Tau world and it was a terrible ending that shouldn't have happened like that.
My understanding of GSC is that Genestealer infections can only thrive in large, and relatively open societies. The Tau societies are the very opposite being completely closed and completely pre planed. The entire cast system the Tau use is designed to control genetic differences. Given the structure I don’t understand how a Cult could grown over multiple generations. The cult would have no control over its offspring, offspring which should be caught and destroyed at any number of stages.
The Tau practice selective breeding without family units and the family units are key for Genestealer infections to take hold. Genetic matches are made for what is best for the Greater Good with Genetic screening and matching. Everyone has genetic screening which should in its self stop any Genestealer infections getting past the first stage.
Then the embryos are taken away from the twoTau that got matched and are brought up in test tubes with more genetic screening. Then the children are moved into a group unit caches to be raised as a group without any contact from the parents again with extensive monitoring. There is also no interbreeding between the castes as all matches are pre-selected. The Tau system of breeding doesn't seem compatible to me with how are the Genesteale cults breed over multiple generations. How are they meant to hide the extra children or deformities and breed purestrains when they have no contact with the children and the children are genetic screened? Tau societies are to regimented and planed out to allow random Tau to have random unknown children. Now the humans in the Tau empire that's a different story.
The other problem is the Tau know all about the GSC. One would think they would add security measures and tests into there standard genetic screening tests. Its goes against there nature to be stupid enough to ignore that threat time and time again when its so easy to solve given there empire structure.
The GSC Codex story has the Tau experminting with Genestealer DNA in the way that all good military R+D do and.... it goes wrong - although the facility if purged, the story strongly implies that the Etheral is infected as he gives it an all clear.
The Cain story has Tau Firewarriros working with Ambeley and Cain briefly to deal with a GSC - several Tau are taken out by a Steale and infected. Amberely lets the Tau recover their unconcsious wounded and tells Cain not to warn them hoping that a cult will arise on a Tau world and divert local Tyranid swarms to them rather than the Imperial worlds.
Yeah Shadowbreaker was not as good as the previous DW novel for me which really captured how nasty the GSC is.
You make good points but the GSC is insidious - others have made some good poiints as well and it could start in the human/other alien population and then infect Tau overseers later, then they can give orders for subtle changes to the breeding program.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
If we take the Ciaphas Cain BL novels as canon, then it wouldn't be a surprise to find GSC on Tau worlds.
[spoiler]I give you the ending of For the Emperor as a source
That was a terribly written ending that made no sense and couldn't possibly have happened. Tau themselves cannot fall to GSC infestation due to the way the empire is designed and Tau children are raised. Perhaps in the human population but not in the Tau population.
It also in the GSC Codex that an infestation took hold on a Tau planet and it is heavily implied that at least one Etheral is infected.
You overestimate the Tau and underestimate the GSC.
What exaclty made no sense about that ending anyway - it was a pragmatic descision by the Inquisitor on planet - let my enemies fight each other, we don't know if it worked but it made perfect sense for her to try it.
Its less risky than leting Orks and Tryanids fight as they both grow stronger by the mere act of fighting each other.
The GSC Codex is one story I missed so I need to read it. I might also have been thinking of Deathwatch: Shadowbreaker which has the same GSC cult at the end on a Tau world and it was a terrible ending that shouldn't have happened like that.
My understanding of GSC is that Genestealer infections can only thrive in large, and relatively open societies. The Tau societies are the very opposite being completely closed and completely pre planed. The entire cast system the Tau use is designed to control genetic differences. Given the structure I don’t understand how a Cult could grown over multiple generations. The cult would have no control over its offspring, offspring which should be caught and destroyed at any number of stages.
The Tau practice selective breeding without family units and the family units are key for Genestealer infections to take hold. Genetic matches are made for what is best for the Greater Good with Genetic screening and matching. Everyone has genetic screening which should in its self stop any Genestealer infections getting past the first stage.
Then the embryos are taken away from the twoTau that got matched and are brought up in test tubes with more genetic screening. Then the children are moved into a group unit caches to be raised as a group without any contact from the parents again with extensive monitoring. There is also no interbreeding between the castes as all matches are pre-selected. The Tau system of breeding doesn't seem compatible to me with how are the Genesteale cults breed over multiple generations. How are they meant to hide the extra children or deformities and breed purestrains when they have no contact with the children and the children are genetic screened? Tau societies are to regimented and planed out to allow random Tau to have random unknown children. Now the humans in the Tau empire that's a different story.
The other problem is the Tau know all about the GSC. One would think they would add security measures and tests into there standard genetic screening tests. Its goes against there nature to be stupid enough to ignore that threat time and time again when its so easy to solve given there empire structure.
[/spoiler]
The GSC Codex story has the Tau experminting with Genestealer DNA in the way that all good military R+D do and.... it goes wrong - although the facility if purged, the story strongly implies that the Etheral is infected as he gives it an all clear.
The Cain story has Tau Firewarriros working with Ambeley and Cain briefly to deal with a GSC - several Tau are taken out by a Steale and infected. Amberely lets the Tau recover their unconcsious wounded and tells Cain not to warn them hoping that a cult will arise on a Tau world and divert local Tyranid swarms to them rather than the Imperial worlds.
Yeah Shadowbreaker was not as good as the previous DW novel for me which really captured how nasty the GSC is.
You make good points but the GSC is insidious - others have made some good poiints as well and it could start in the human/other alien population and then infect Tau overseers later, then they can give orders for subtle changes to the breeding program.
it's worth noting the Cain story could well have ended with the Tau simply testing those guys and killing them themselves later. we just see Inquisitor Vail giving them the chance to hang themselves
Shadowsun is just one example of how the tau have been the most visibly screwed over faction by this absurd decision to treat the setting as an ongoing narrative and do centuries long time skips instead of focusing on the literal ten thousand years of history they already had to work with.
According to prior lore on in-development Tau tech they should have moved onto rail rifles as the standard infantry rifle and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago, and be doing all kinds of crazy stuff with the other suit varieties including wider circulation of Hazard Suits as a Crisis alternative.
Shadowsun is just one example of how the tau have been the most visibly screwed over faction by this absurd decision to treat the setting as an ongoing narrative and do centuries long time skips instead of focusing on the literal ten thousand years of history they already had to work with.
According to prior lore on in-development Tau tech they should have moved onto rail rifles as the standard infantry rifle and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago, and be doing all kinds of crazy stuff with the other suit varieties including wider circulation of Hazard Suits as a Crisis alternative.
Not to mention that all their named characters should be dead!
honestly GW's using the great rift to basicly do timey whimy stuff and advance the time a century, a day or not at all as they see nesscary. it's lazy, and will make it near impossiable to assmble a long term narrative, but for what they need to do, it works.
changemod wrote: and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago
If the XV22 finished trials, it'd be for generic Stealth Commanders, the XV25 isn't going anywhere as it's one of the most loved minis in the Tau lineup and ages like fine wine.
Pottsey wrote: My understanding of GSC is that Genestealer infections can only thrive in large, and relatively open societies. The Tau societies are the very opposite being completely closed and completely pre planed. The entire cast system the Tau use is designed to control genetic differences. Given the structure I don’t understand how a Cult could grown over multiple generations. The cult would have no control over its offspring, offspring which should be caught and destroyed at any number of stages.
The Tau practice selective breeding without family units and the family units are key for Genestealer infections to take hold. Genetic matches are made for what is best for the Greater Good with Genetic screening and matching. Everyone has genetic screening which should in its self stop any Genestealer infections getting past the first stage.
Then the embryos are taken away from the twoTau that got matched and are brought up in test tubes with more genetic screening. Then the children are moved into a group unit caches to be raised as a group without any contact from the parents again with extensive monitoring. There is also no interbreeding between the castes as all matches are pre-selected. The Tau system of breeding doesn't seem compatible to me with how are the Genesteale cults breed over multiple generations. How are they meant to hide the extra children or deformities and breed purestrains when they have no contact with the children and the children are genetic screened? Tau societies are to regimented and planed out to allow random Tau to have random unknown children. Now the humans in the Tau empire that's a different story.
The other problem is the Tau know all about the GSC. One would think they would add security measures and tests into there standard genetic screening tests. Its goes against there nature to be stupid enough to ignore that threat time and time again when its so easy to solve given there empire structure.
You don't know how regimented societies work, do you? Closed system might make a failure point hard to exploit, but once it does, everything fails all at once catastrophically. Tau GSC cult would just simply try to infect people doing the screening, once they do so, they can just infect every simple baby on the planet, slap A+ on every genetic test (or even funnier, have uninfected babies fail it), wait a decade or two and there are so many cultists on the planet rooting out the infection becomes impossible. Or even simpler, try to infect Ethereal in charge, have him call breeding facility employees for a motivating talk, boom, planet is doomed.
It's not an Imperial world where you need to painstakingly spread infection one by one, all while hiding from Imperial psykers and Inquisitors. Industrial breeding also means industrial scale disasters, very easy ones too if someone is actively trying to cause them. Tau have very little means of detection of rogue psychic and genetic activity, and even in the last field they are against vast intellect that devoured millions of races so far, if anything can devise a method to avoid GSC being found, it's the hive mind. Evolving counters to others is Tyranids whole trick, after all.
Pottsey wrote: My understanding of GSC is that Genestealer infections can only thrive in large, and relatively open societies. The Tau societies are the very opposite being completely closed and completely pre planed. The entire cast system the Tau use is designed to control genetic differences. Given the structure I don’t understand how a Cult could grown over multiple generations. The cult would have no control over its offspring, offspring which should be caught and destroyed at any number of stages.
The Tau practice selective breeding without family units and the family units are key for Genestealer infections to take hold. Genetic matches are made for what is best for the Greater Good with Genetic screening and matching. Everyone has genetic screening which should in its self stop any Genestealer infections getting past the first stage.
Then the embryos are taken away from the twoTau that got matched and are brought up in test tubes with more genetic screening. Then the children are moved into a group unit caches to be raised as a group without any contact from the parents again with extensive monitoring. There is also no interbreeding between the castes as all matches are pre-selected. The Tau system of breeding doesn't seem compatible to me with how are the Genesteale cults breed over multiple generations. How are they meant to hide the extra children or deformities and breed purestrains when they have no contact with the children and the children are genetic screened? Tau societies are to regimented and planed out to allow random Tau to have random unknown children. Now the humans in the Tau empire that's a different story.
The other problem is the Tau know all about the GSC. One would think they would add security measures and tests into there standard genetic screening tests. Its goes against there nature to be stupid enough to ignore that threat time and time again when its so easy to solve given there empire structure.
You don't know how regimented societies work, do you? Closed system might make a failure point hard to exploit, but once it does, everything fails all at once catastrophically. Tau GSC cult would just simply try to infect people doing the screening, once they do so, they can just infect every simple baby on the planet, slap A+ on every genetic test (or even funnier, have uninfected babies fail it), wait a decade or two and there are so many cultists on the planet rooting out the infection becomes impossible. Or even simpler, try to infect Ethereal in charge, have him call breeding facility employees for a motivating talk, boom, planet is doomed.
It's not an Imperial world where you need to painstakingly spread infection one by one, all while hiding from Imperial psykers and Inquisitors. Industrial breeding also means industrial scale disasters, very easy ones too if someone is actively trying to cause them. Tau have very little means of detection of rogue psychic and genetic activity, and even in the last field they are against vast intellect that devoured millions of races so far, if anything can devise a method to avoid GSC being found, it's the hive mind. Evolving counters to others is Tyranids whole trick, after all.
Which is also what the Tau are known for developing counters to others. There have been some interesting stories especially the ones with Hive Fleet Gorgon who’s extremely rapid adaptability is astounding even by Tyranids standards. The reason being the Tau are no less a dynamic species than the Tyranids. Each time they met in battle the Tyranid Hive Mind adjusted its biomorphs' reproductive matrices to meet the challenge and each time the Tau adjusted as well. In the end the Tau won out due to being more flexible with faster adaptability against what is know as the most extreme rapid adaptability Hive Fleet. I very much doubt the Tau are unaware of the GSC and would just sit back without trying to develop counters. That’s not the Tau’s style. They look at problems and work out multiple counters and we know they are aware of the GSC having had major outbreaks.
As for no means of detection of rogue psychics the Tau have a hidden secret from the Imperium of Man which they go out there way to hide. The first race Tau absorbed into the empire are some of the strongest psychics in the galaxy. They live throughout Tau space having been in the empire since the start. I am pretty sure they would detect a sudden upsurge in psychic's appearing among the Tau population. It would be even easier then on a human world as there are not meant to be any native Tau psychics for the GSC to hide themselves between so they would stand out massively more then on a human world.
changemod wrote: and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago
If the XV22 finished trials, it'd be for generic Stealth Commanders, the XV25 isn't going anywhere as it's one of the most loved minis in the Tau lineup and ages like fine wine.
But he was talking about background sense. Are tau going to halt progress because some miniature players don\t want? Nope. He's pointing out issues with GW time jumping like this. The old stealth suit SHOULD be out of picture or at least rare antique. Shadowsun should be dead. GW screwed up with the idea of time jumping like this.
changemod wrote: and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago
If the XV22 finished trials, it'd be for generic Stealth Commanders, the XV25 isn't going anywhere as it's one of the most loved minis in the Tau lineup and ages like fine wine.
But he was talking about background sense. Are tau going to halt progress because some miniature players don\t want? Nope. He's pointing out issues with GW time jumping like this. The old stealth suit SHOULD be out of picture or at least rare antique. Shadowsun should be dead. GW screwed up with the idea of time jumping like this.
I know, and I agree that Tau should progress more rapidly.
However, the XV25 definitely would have been altered under the hood. Just because the chassis is the same doesn't mean nothing was altered. Stealth Suits got a LOT better on the tabletop from 6th to 8th edition. Only Forge World typically use variant denotations on data sheets, the exception being variants co-existing with its basic variant like Enforcer armour. If the original design got replaced, like would be the case for Stealth Suits, there's no point to a variant denotation.
Galas wrote: I hope this kit allows for generic XV22 commanders
It doesn’t. There’s no mention of it on the box which was shown at the open day. The box for the new Dark Angels character specifically says it also makes a Primaris DA Captain/Master.
Pottsey wrote: Each time they met in battle the Tyranid Hive Mind adjusted its biomorphs' reproductive matrices to meet the challenge and each time the Tau adjusted as well. In the end the Tau won out due to being more flexible with faster adaptability against what is know as the most extreme rapid adaptability Hive Fleet.
Damn, that's fanfic writing on the level of Kaldor Draigo keying Khorne's favourite ride.
changemod wrote: and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago
If the XV22 finished trials, it'd be for generic Stealth Commanders, the XV25 isn't going anywhere as it's one of the most loved minis in the Tau lineup and ages like fine wine.
But he was talking about background sense. Are tau going to halt progress because some miniature players don\t want? Nope. He's pointing out issues with GW time jumping like this. The old stealth suit SHOULD be out of picture or at least rare antique. Shadowsun should be dead. GW screwed up with the idea of time jumping like this.
I know, and I agree that Tau should progress more rapidly.
However, the XV25 definitely would have been altered under the hood. Just because the chassis is the same doesn't mean nothing was altered. Stealth Suits got a LOT better on the tabletop from 6th to 8th edition. Only Forge World typically use variant denotations on data sheets, the exception being variants co-existing with its basic variant like Enforcer armour. If the original design got replaced, like would be the case for Stealth Suits, there's no point to a variant denotation.
The XV22, or as it would likely be in full production XV25-02, would allow for a double weapon mount and possibly a built in force field (though I would understand if the later was a support system not automatically equipped)
Whatever the hell Shadowsun is wearing now appears to be more of a specific command variant than the old 22.
Pottsey wrote: Each time they met in battle the Tyranid Hive Mind adjusted its biomorphs' reproductive matrices to meet the challenge and each time the Tau adjusted as well. In the end the Tau won out due to being more flexible with faster adaptability against what is know as the most extreme rapid adaptability Hive Fleet.
Damn, that's fanfic writing on the level of Kaldor Draigo keying Khorne's favourite ride.
Its not completely fanfic there are pages of official text on the battle between Tau and Hive Fleet Gorgon and on how both sides adapted and constantly changed and shifted tactics. The story mentions 3 invasions by Hive fleet Gorgon with multiple adaptations on both sides and describes how the Tau won all 3 invasions via various forms of adaptation. In the end the constantly adapting Hive fleet was forced into smaller and less complex organisms. The Tau soon realised that and seized on that fact eliminating the few big synaptic creatures shifting the war into their favour before they won. It even goes into some of the battles and describes how both sides changed tactic and adapted mid battle.
Am I the only one thinks she is one ugly model? All I see from GWIG comments are what such fantastic job they did. Not only does she have a pair of arms, she got chunkier like after thanksgiving; I would think a commander of her stature used for propaganda would be in top shape. Chunky models are fine, just not on her imo.
Big Mac wrote: Am I the only one thinks she is one ugly model? All I see from GWIG comments are what such fantastic job they did. Not only does she have a pair of arms, she got chunkier like after thanksgiving; I would think a commander of her stature used for propaganda would be in top shape. Chunky models are fine, just not on her imo.
She’s in chunky armour, nothing to do with her physical shape.
Big Mac wrote: Am I the only one thinks she is one ugly model? All I see from GWIG comments are what such fantastic job they did. Not only does she have a pair of arms, she got chunkier like after thanksgiving; I would think a commander of her stature used for propaganda would be in top shape. Chunky models are fine, just not on her imo.
She’s in chunky armour, nothing to do with her physical shape.
Did you not see her face with the double chin? Or is that a slow mo capture action face; if I was ever gifted or commissioned that model, it will have the full helmet.
Shas'O Kais from the DoW game had a variant of XV22 suit. No need for extra arms (that don't mount any weapon), he just mount more weapon on his shoulders instead.
If they've moved the timeline forward 100 years doesn't it have made more sense to have a new commander as her replacement and move her rules to Legends?
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: If they've moved the timeline forward 100 years doesn't it have made more sense to have a new commander as her replacement and move her rules to Legends?
The T'au formula for Keeping Special Characters Around:
Cryostasis + Timey-Whimey Warp Tear nearby = Special Character still around.
Pottsey wrote: There have been some interesting stories especially the ones with Hive Fleet Gorgon who’s extremely rapid adaptability is astounding even by Tyranids standards. In the end the Tau won out due to being more flexible with faster adaptability against what is know as the most extreme rapid adaptability Hive Fleet.
It wasn't quite as one sided as you make it sound. Gorgon was actually doing fairly well when the war was strictly between itself and the Tau, but ran into trouble with a third party (a lost AM regiment) joined the fray. The problem was it was so optimizing its forces to deal with one opponent that it was drastically compromising its efficiency against the other one. As an example, one of the earlier waves of gaunts incorporated a mucus secretion on their exoskeletons that was specifically formulated to absorb and disperse pulse weaponry, but the extra coating had no effect against solid-shot projectiles and reduced the overall speed of the organisms so modified, for a net negative against non-Tau.
On the original topic, I think I like the look of the new Shadowsun overall. The added armatures are a bit odd but I think part of it is also the color they used making them clash with the armor. I imagine having them the same color as the plating would make them less conspicuous. From a mechanics standpoint, I think they can be justified as extra stabilizers for her new weapons. In the original Dawn of War fusion weapons had quite a nasty recoil to them, and given her new ones are presumably prototypes intended for a larger suit, it could well be that additional limbs were needed to keep the weapon's kick manageable.
Is it my imagination or in the interior pic is Shadowsun wearing a full suit of armor underneath? If so, WHY?
I'm somewhat on the fence with this model. If it wasn't a named character, I'd probably buy it and build a couple 3-man squads out of it (with helmets on it). Price is probably going to kill my interest in acquiring even one :( .
Stormonu wrote: Is it my imagination or in the interior pic is Shadowsun wearing a full suit of armor underneath? If so, WHY?
I'm somewhat on the fence with this model. If it wasn't a named character, I'd probably buy it and build a couple 3-man squads out of it (with helmets on it). Price is probably going to kill my interest in acquiring even one :( .
It doesn't look like armor. The only thing that looks like it could armor is the little blocky thing behind her head in the side image. Any detail on the black is just the white outline of the actual battle suit, not her body. If anything, she'd probably wear something similar to whatever the Ghostkeel pilot is modeled to be wearing.
Her head is much too big. It's bigger on the plastic model than the x-ray illustration they made. She's a bobblehead... I'm using the helmet anyway so I don't care, just find it comical.
Comparing the metal version to the new plastic it seems like she got the primaris treatment. I find the new drones to be chunky too. I"ll stick to the WGE cheese for my characters.
