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A mech should never grip a weapon with robotic hands and fingers. If that happens I'm calling the police. Integrated or underslung weapons are the only way for mecha not to look stupid.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/04 18:30:23
Unusual Suspect wrote: I'm of mixed feelings with the sculpt, but I do like that they're leaning a bit heavier on the ghostkeel aesthetic, which I absolutely adore.
Interchangeable weapons on a unique character is odd to me, but at the very least, I hope she at least can bring enough firepower to ease the pain of losing a Coldstar or Enforcer through her unique Fusion variants.
Also, it's apparently been, what, centuries since she started testing out the XV-22 suit?
Enough of the hoarding, Shadowsun! Give it the go-ahead, and put that baby out into production!
Also, explain how you’re not dead?!
Easily done on both counts. Sitting out the eons in the freezer grants eternal life and precious few opportunities to test the suit outside of whether it prevents freezer burn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/04 18:36:39
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Crimson wrote: I usually rank GW's models above most competitors, but that Infinity suit/mech is a clear example of them having an easily superior take on the same concept. How big is it? Would make a nice crisis or stealth suit...
Strangely enough, though I generally like the larger Infinity models, Shadowsun channels more of what made Appleseed landmates such a striking iteration of the big mecha suit trope. She's more compact, the volumes are better defined without feeling like a bunch of random crap thrown together and the proportions are better (and I can't believe I just said that about a GW model).
So yeah, I might actually buy a Tau model in the year 2020.
Also, apparently this is how Shadowsun sits in her new suit:
Yes, that’s always been the difference between the XV8+ size suits and the XV15 and XV2* series; the large suits are full neural interface mechs, with the pilot just bundled up in the body (they even show it in the Ghostkeel), whereas the smaller suits are basically power armour. Which gives a reason why they can’t just give it bigger arms (YMMV).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, definitely building her using the helmet, but some interesting conversion possibilities rattling around in my brain to use that visored head; cadre fireblade, firesight marksman, other??
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/05 09:44:29
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
If we take the Ciaphas Cain BL novels as canon, then it wouldn't be a surprise to find GSC on Tau worlds.
Spoiler:
I give you the ending of For the Emperor as a source
That was a terribly written ending that made no sense and couldn't possibly have happened. Tau themselves cannot fall to GSC infestation due to the way the empire is designed and Tau children are raised. Perhaps in the human population but not in the Tau population.
It also in the GSC Codex that an infestation took hold on a Tau planet and it is heavily implied that at least one Etheral is infected.
You overestimate the Tau and underestimate the GSC.
What exaclty made no sense about that ending anyway - it was a pragmatic descision by the Inquisitor on planet - let my enemies fight each other, we don't know if it worked but it made perfect sense for her to try it.
Its less risky than leting Orks and Tryanids fight as they both grow stronger by the mere act of fighting each other.
The GSC Codex is one story I missed so I need to read it. I might also have been thinking of Deathwatch: Shadowbreaker which has the same GSC cult at the end on a Tau world and it was a terrible ending that shouldn't have happened like that.
My understanding of GSC is that Genestealer infections can only thrive in large, and relatively open societies. The Tau societies are the very opposite being completely closed and completely pre planed. The entire cast system the Tau use is designed to control genetic differences. Given the structure I don’t understand how a Cult could grown over multiple generations. The cult would have no control over its offspring, offspring which should be caught and destroyed at any number of stages.
The Tau practice selective breeding without family units and the family units are key for Genestealer infections to take hold. Genetic matches are made for what is best for the Greater Good with Genetic screening and matching. Everyone has genetic screening which should in its self stop any Genestealer infections getting past the first stage.
Then the embryos are taken away from the twoTau that got matched and are brought up in test tubes with more genetic screening. Then the children are moved into a group unit caches to be raised as a group without any contact from the parents again with extensive monitoring. There is also no interbreeding between the castes as all matches are pre-selected. The Tau system of breeding doesn't seem compatible to me with how are the Genesteale cults breed over multiple generations. How are they meant to hide the extra children or deformities and breed purestrains when they have no contact with the children and the children are genetic screened? Tau societies are to regimented and planed out to allow random Tau to have random unknown children. Now the humans in the Tau empire that's a different story.
The other problem is the Tau know all about the GSC. One would think they would add security measures and tests into there standard genetic screening tests. Its goes against there nature to be stupid enough to ignore that threat time and time again when its so easy to solve given there empire structure.
The GSC Codex story has the Tau experminting with Genestealer DNA in the way that all good military R+D do and.... it goes wrong - although the facility if purged, the story strongly implies that the Etheral is infected as he gives it an all clear.
The Cain story has Tau Firewarriros working with Ambeley and Cain briefly to deal with a GSC - several Tau are taken out by a Steale and infected. Amberely lets the Tau recover their unconcsious wounded and tells Cain not to warn them hoping that a cult will arise on a Tau world and divert local Tyranid swarms to them rather than the Imperial worlds.
Yeah Shadowbreaker was not as good as the previous DW novel for me which really captured how nasty the GSC is.
You make good points but the GSC is insidious - others have made some good poiints as well and it could start in the human/other alien population and then infect Tau overseers later, then they can give orders for subtle changes to the breeding program.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
GoatboyBeta wrote: The PA fluff so far has been fairly disappointing so I wont get my hopes up. But Tau vs GSC would a great matchup to emphasize the horror influences of the cult background.
If we take the Ciaphas Cain BL novels as canon, then it wouldn't be a surprise to find GSC on Tau worlds.
[spoiler]I give you the ending of For the Emperor as a source
That was a terribly written ending that made no sense and couldn't possibly have happened. Tau themselves cannot fall to GSC infestation due to the way the empire is designed and Tau children are raised. Perhaps in the human population but not in the Tau population.
It also in the GSC Codex that an infestation took hold on a Tau planet and it is heavily implied that at least one Etheral is infected.
You overestimate the Tau and underestimate the GSC.
What exaclty made no sense about that ending anyway - it was a pragmatic descision by the Inquisitor on planet - let my enemies fight each other, we don't know if it worked but it made perfect sense for her to try it.
Its less risky than leting Orks and Tryanids fight as they both grow stronger by the mere act of fighting each other.
The GSC Codex is one story I missed so I need to read it. I might also have been thinking of Deathwatch: Shadowbreaker which has the same GSC cult at the end on a Tau world and it was a terrible ending that shouldn't have happened like that.
My understanding of GSC is that Genestealer infections can only thrive in large, and relatively open societies. The Tau societies are the very opposite being completely closed and completely pre planed. The entire cast system the Tau use is designed to control genetic differences. Given the structure I don’t understand how a Cult could grown over multiple generations. The cult would have no control over its offspring, offspring which should be caught and destroyed at any number of stages.
The Tau practice selective breeding without family units and the family units are key for Genestealer infections to take hold. Genetic matches are made for what is best for the Greater Good with Genetic screening and matching. Everyone has genetic screening which should in its self stop any Genestealer infections getting past the first stage.
Then the embryos are taken away from the twoTau that got matched and are brought up in test tubes with more genetic screening. Then the children are moved into a group unit caches to be raised as a group without any contact from the parents again with extensive monitoring. There is also no interbreeding between the castes as all matches are pre-selected. The Tau system of breeding doesn't seem compatible to me with how are the Genesteale cults breed over multiple generations. How are they meant to hide the extra children or deformities and breed purestrains when they have no contact with the children and the children are genetic screened? Tau societies are to regimented and planed out to allow random Tau to have random unknown children. Now the humans in the Tau empire that's a different story.
The other problem is the Tau know all about the GSC. One would think they would add security measures and tests into there standard genetic screening tests. Its goes against there nature to be stupid enough to ignore that threat time and time again when its so easy to solve given there empire structure.
[/spoiler]
The GSC Codex story has the Tau experminting with Genestealer DNA in the way that all good military R+D do and.... it goes wrong - although the facility if purged, the story strongly implies that the Etheral is infected as he gives it an all clear.
The Cain story has Tau Firewarriros working with Ambeley and Cain briefly to deal with a GSC - several Tau are taken out by a Steale and infected. Amberely lets the Tau recover their unconcsious wounded and tells Cain not to warn them hoping that a cult will arise on a Tau world and divert local Tyranid swarms to them rather than the Imperial worlds.
Yeah Shadowbreaker was not as good as the previous DW novel for me which really captured how nasty the GSC is.
You make good points but the GSC is insidious - others have made some good poiints as well and it could start in the human/other alien population and then infect Tau overseers later, then they can give orders for subtle changes to the breeding program.
it's worth noting the Cain story could well have ended with the Tau simply testing those guys and killing them themselves later. we just see Inquisitor Vail giving them the chance to hang themselves
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/05 12:07:27
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Agreed - its a shot in the dark and may achieve nothing but it costs nothing - good example of the Inquisiition looking at the bigger picture.
A boxs set of Tau/Kroot Hybrids or even just an article in White Dwarf with conversions would be great.
A specific Cult with the ability to ally in some basic Tau hardware would be interesting.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Shadowsun is just one example of how the tau have been the most visibly screwed over faction by this absurd decision to treat the setting as an ongoing narrative and do centuries long time skips instead of focusing on the literal ten thousand years of history they already had to work with.
According to prior lore on in-development Tau tech they should have moved onto rail rifles as the standard infantry rifle and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago, and be doing all kinds of crazy stuff with the other suit varieties including wider circulation of Hazard Suits as a Crisis alternative.
Shadowsun is just one example of how the tau have been the most visibly screwed over faction by this absurd decision to treat the setting as an ongoing narrative and do centuries long time skips instead of focusing on the literal ten thousand years of history they already had to work with.
According to prior lore on in-development Tau tech they should have moved onto rail rifles as the standard infantry rifle and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago, and be doing all kinds of crazy stuff with the other suit varieties including wider circulation of Hazard Suits as a Crisis alternative.
Not to mention that all their named characters should be dead!
honestly GW's using the great rift to basicly do timey whimy stuff and advance the time a century, a day or not at all as they see nesscary. it's lazy, and will make it near impossiable to assmble a long term narrative, but for what they need to do, it works.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
changemod wrote: and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago
If the XV22 finished trials, it'd be for generic Stealth Commanders, the XV25 isn't going anywhere as it's one of the most loved minis in the Tau lineup and ages like fine wine.
Pottsey wrote: My understanding of GSC is that Genestealer infections can only thrive in large, and relatively open societies. The Tau societies are the very opposite being completely closed and completely pre planed. The entire cast system the Tau use is designed to control genetic differences. Given the structure I don’t understand how a Cult could grown over multiple generations. The cult would have no control over its offspring, offspring which should be caught and destroyed at any number of stages.
The Tau practice selective breeding without family units and the family units are key for Genestealer infections to take hold. Genetic matches are made for what is best for the Greater Good with Genetic screening and matching. Everyone has genetic screening which should in its self stop any Genestealer infections getting past the first stage.
Then the embryos are taken away from the twoTau that got matched and are brought up in test tubes with more genetic screening. Then the children are moved into a group unit caches to be raised as a group without any contact from the parents again with extensive monitoring. There is also no interbreeding between the castes as all matches are pre-selected. The Tau system of breeding doesn't seem compatible to me with how are the Genesteale cults breed over multiple generations. How are they meant to hide the extra children or deformities and breed purestrains when they have no contact with the children and the children are genetic screened? Tau societies are to regimented and planed out to allow random Tau to have random unknown children. Now the humans in the Tau empire that's a different story.
The other problem is the Tau know all about the GSC. One would think they would add security measures and tests into there standard genetic screening tests. Its goes against there nature to be stupid enough to ignore that threat time and time again when its so easy to solve given there empire structure.
You don't know how regimented societies work, do you? Closed system might make a failure point hard to exploit, but once it does, everything fails all at once catastrophically. Tau GSC cult would just simply try to infect people doing the screening, once they do so, they can just infect every simple baby on the planet, slap A+ on every genetic test (or even funnier, have uninfected babies fail it), wait a decade or two and there are so many cultists on the planet rooting out the infection becomes impossible. Or even simpler, try to infect Ethereal in charge, have him call breeding facility employees for a motivating talk, boom, planet is doomed.
It's not an Imperial world where you need to painstakingly spread infection one by one, all while hiding from Imperial psykers and Inquisitors. Industrial breeding also means industrial scale disasters, very easy ones too if someone is actively trying to cause them. Tau have very little means of detection of rogue psychic and genetic activity, and even in the last field they are against vast intellect that devoured millions of races so far, if anything can devise a method to avoid GSC being found, it's the hive mind. Evolving counters to others is Tyranids whole trick, after all.
Pottsey wrote: My understanding of GSC is that Genestealer infections can only thrive in large, and relatively open societies. The Tau societies are the very opposite being completely closed and completely pre planed. The entire cast system the Tau use is designed to control genetic differences. Given the structure I don’t understand how a Cult could grown over multiple generations. The cult would have no control over its offspring, offspring which should be caught and destroyed at any number of stages.
The Tau practice selective breeding without family units and the family units are key for Genestealer infections to take hold. Genetic matches are made for what is best for the Greater Good with Genetic screening and matching. Everyone has genetic screening which should in its self stop any Genestealer infections getting past the first stage.
Then the embryos are taken away from the twoTau that got matched and are brought up in test tubes with more genetic screening. Then the children are moved into a group unit caches to be raised as a group without any contact from the parents again with extensive monitoring. There is also no interbreeding between the castes as all matches are pre-selected. The Tau system of breeding doesn't seem compatible to me with how are the Genesteale cults breed over multiple generations. How are they meant to hide the extra children or deformities and breed purestrains when they have no contact with the children and the children are genetic screened? Tau societies are to regimented and planed out to allow random Tau to have random unknown children. Now the humans in the Tau empire that's a different story.
The other problem is the Tau know all about the GSC. One would think they would add security measures and tests into there standard genetic screening tests. Its goes against there nature to be stupid enough to ignore that threat time and time again when its so easy to solve given there empire structure.
You don't know how regimented societies work, do you? Closed system might make a failure point hard to exploit, but once it does, everything fails all at once catastrophically. Tau GSC cult would just simply try to infect people doing the screening, once they do so, they can just infect every simple baby on the planet, slap A+ on every genetic test (or even funnier, have uninfected babies fail it), wait a decade or two and there are so many cultists on the planet rooting out the infection becomes impossible. Or even simpler, try to infect Ethereal in charge, have him call breeding facility employees for a motivating talk, boom, planet is doomed.
It's not an Imperial world where you need to painstakingly spread infection one by one, all while hiding from Imperial psykers and Inquisitors. Industrial breeding also means industrial scale disasters, very easy ones too if someone is actively trying to cause them. Tau have very little means of detection of rogue psychic and genetic activity, and even in the last field they are against vast intellect that devoured millions of races so far, if anything can devise a method to avoid GSC being found, it's the hive mind. Evolving counters to others is Tyranids whole trick, after all.
Which is also what the Tau are known for developing counters to others. There have been some interesting stories especially the ones with Hive Fleet Gorgon who’s extremely rapid adaptability is astounding even by Tyranids standards. The reason being the Tau are no less a dynamic species than the Tyranids. Each time they met in battle the Tyranid Hive Mind adjusted its biomorphs' reproductive matrices to meet the challenge and each time the Tau adjusted as well. In the end the Tau won out due to being more flexible with faster adaptability against what is know as the most extreme rapid adaptability Hive Fleet. I very much doubt the Tau are unaware of the GSC and would just sit back without trying to develop counters. That’s not the Tau’s style. They look at problems and work out multiple counters and we know they are aware of the GSC having had major outbreaks.
As for no means of detection of rogue psychics the Tau have a hidden secret from the Imperium of Man which they go out there way to hide. The first race Tau absorbed into the empire are some of the strongest psychics in the galaxy. They live throughout Tau space having been in the empire since the start. I am pretty sure they would detect a sudden upsurge in psychic's appearing among the Tau population. It would be even easier then on a human world as there are not meant to be any native Tau psychics for the GSC to hide themselves between so they would stand out massively more then on a human world.
changemod wrote: and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago
If the XV22 finished trials, it'd be for generic Stealth Commanders, the XV25 isn't going anywhere as it's one of the most loved minis in the Tau lineup and ages like fine wine.
But he was talking about background sense. Are tau going to halt progress because some miniature players don\t want? Nope. He's pointing out issues with GW time jumping like this. The old stealth suit SHOULD be out of picture or at least rare antique. Shadowsun should be dead. GW screwed up with the idea of time jumping like this.
changemod wrote: and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago
If the XV22 finished trials, it'd be for generic Stealth Commanders, the XV25 isn't going anywhere as it's one of the most loved minis in the Tau lineup and ages like fine wine.
But he was talking about background sense. Are tau going to halt progress because some miniature players don\t want? Nope. He's pointing out issues with GW time jumping like this. The old stealth suit SHOULD be out of picture or at least rare antique. Shadowsun should be dead. GW screwed up with the idea of time jumping like this.
I know, and I agree that Tau should progress more rapidly.
However, the XV25 definitely would have been altered under the hood. Just because the chassis is the same doesn't mean nothing was altered. Stealth Suits got a LOT better on the tabletop from 6th to 8th edition. Only Forge World typically use variant denotations on data sheets, the exception being variants co-existing with its basic variant like Enforcer armour. If the original design got replaced, like would be the case for Stealth Suits, there's no point to a variant denotation.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Galas wrote: I hope this kit allows for generic XV22 commanders
It doesn’t. There’s no mention of it on the box which was shown at the open day. The box for the new Dark Angels character specifically says it also makes a Primaris DA Captain/Master.
Pottsey wrote: Each time they met in battle the Tyranid Hive Mind adjusted its biomorphs' reproductive matrices to meet the challenge and each time the Tau adjusted as well. In the end the Tau won out due to being more flexible with faster adaptability against what is know as the most extreme rapid adaptability Hive Fleet.
Damn, that's fanfic writing on the level of Kaldor Draigo keying Khorne's favourite ride.
changemod wrote: and shadowsun’s old suit as the standard stealth suit ages ago
If the XV22 finished trials, it'd be for generic Stealth Commanders, the XV25 isn't going anywhere as it's one of the most loved minis in the Tau lineup and ages like fine wine.
But he was talking about background sense. Are tau going to halt progress because some miniature players don\t want? Nope. He's pointing out issues with GW time jumping like this. The old stealth suit SHOULD be out of picture or at least rare antique. Shadowsun should be dead. GW screwed up with the idea of time jumping like this.
I know, and I agree that Tau should progress more rapidly.
However, the XV25 definitely would have been altered under the hood. Just because the chassis is the same doesn't mean nothing was altered. Stealth Suits got a LOT better on the tabletop from 6th to 8th edition. Only Forge World typically use variant denotations on data sheets, the exception being variants co-existing with its basic variant like Enforcer armour. If the original design got replaced, like would be the case for Stealth Suits, there's no point to a variant denotation.
The XV22, or as it would likely be in full production XV25-02, would allow for a double weapon mount and possibly a built in force field (though I would understand if the later was a support system not automatically equipped)
Whatever the hell Shadowsun is wearing now appears to be more of a specific command variant than the old 22.
Pottsey wrote: Each time they met in battle the Tyranid Hive Mind adjusted its biomorphs' reproductive matrices to meet the challenge and each time the Tau adjusted as well. In the end the Tau won out due to being more flexible with faster adaptability against what is know as the most extreme rapid adaptability Hive Fleet.
Damn, that's fanfic writing on the level of Kaldor Draigo keying Khorne's favourite ride.
Its not completely fanfic there are pages of official text on the battle between Tau and Hive Fleet Gorgon and on how both sides adapted and constantly changed and shifted tactics. The story mentions 3 invasions by Hive fleet Gorgon with multiple adaptations on both sides and describes how the Tau won all 3 invasions via various forms of adaptation. In the end the constantly adapting Hive fleet was forced into smaller and less complex organisms. The Tau soon realised that and seized on that fact eliminating the few big synaptic creatures shifting the war into their favour before they won. It even goes into some of the battles and describes how both sides changed tactic and adapted mid battle.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/05 18:01:17
Am I the only one thinks she is one ugly model? All I see from GWIG comments are what such fantastic job they did. Not only does she have a pair of arms, she got chunkier like after thanksgiving; I would think a commander of her stature used for propaganda would be in top shape. Chunky models are fine, just not on her imo.
Big Mac wrote: Am I the only one thinks she is one ugly model? All I see from GWIG comments are what such fantastic job they did. Not only does she have a pair of arms, she got chunkier like after thanksgiving; I would think a commander of her stature used for propaganda would be in top shape. Chunky models are fine, just not on her imo.
She’s in chunky armour, nothing to do with her physical shape.
Big Mac wrote: Am I the only one thinks she is one ugly model? All I see from GWIG comments are what such fantastic job they did. Not only does she have a pair of arms, she got chunkier like after thanksgiving; I would think a commander of her stature used for propaganda would be in top shape. Chunky models are fine, just not on her imo.
She’s in chunky armour, nothing to do with her physical shape.
Did you not see her face with the double chin? Or is that a slow mo capture action face; if I was ever gifted or commissioned that model, it will have the full helmet.
Shas'O Kais from the DoW game had a variant of XV22 suit. No need for extra arms (that don't mount any weapon), he just mount more weapon on his shoulders instead.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/05 19:07:13
If they've moved the timeline forward 100 years doesn't it have made more sense to have a new commander as her replacement and move her rules to Legends?
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: If they've moved the timeline forward 100 years doesn't it have made more sense to have a new commander as her replacement and move her rules to Legends?
The T'au formula for Keeping Special Characters Around:
Cryostasis + Timey-Whimey Warp Tear nearby = Special Character still around.
