Ah the poor guard.

The plastic Catachans are now old enough to drink in the United States, the Plastic Cadians not far behind. The revised and refreshed Chimera and Leman Russ are over 10 years old, and the Basilisk... the Basilisk has had time to graduate from Med School.

So clearly something has to happen with the Guard soon. And giving it a more Latiny sounding name ain't it.

IF I HAD TO GUESS, I would point to how, decades after introducing them, GW gave rules to the various IG regiments.

And then took all the metals all out of production

(which if you're keeping score were 26 years old)

So I wonder, looking at the wealth of Necromunda plastics, could plastic regiments finally be in the cards? GW has to worry about the number of historical and SF models that can fill in for the guard so reverting to long-established looks like the Mordians, Tallarn and Vostroyans would help counteract that.

Looking again at how much is packed into a Necromunda gang a plastic regiment made today could (FINALLY!) have all 5 special weapons and maybe a heavy weapon or two. Maybe an officer head to eliminate the need for a command squad box.

They could also build into each set an alternate vet build for each regiment. So the Cadians might keep the existing 3x special weapon vets, the Catachans get their Catahan Devil infiltrators back, and others get some sort of suitable unit - Steel Legion Trench Raiders, Mordian duelists, Tallarn Raiders and so on.

Another way would be to make them like the easy build Cadians, since honestly an individual guardsman doesn't need all that much customization. And then pack 20 in a box like they used to be! (Note this will never happen).

Or maybe do 20 monopose conscripts in generic fatigues. If they were monopose GW could put in different genders and body types making them look more like a civilian rabble/rear echelon reserves than fit front line fighters.

Anyway this is an idea that's been bouncing around my head for a while and who knows, maybe? It's been so long since the last guard release (the underwhelming Taurox, Scions and Bullgryns 8 or so years ago) that I feel like something must be in the offering soon.

Maybe that 3-way Thunderbolt/Lighting/Avenger kit I've dreamed off...

In the meantime I guess Wargames Atlantic and Medge will have to do.

I think demand remains strong for gothic greatcoat IG, we'll see if GW ever picks up on that.

I'm not quite sure what to expect in terms of new models, but if they're anything like most of the recent(lol) IG additions, they'll probably do something an existing unit already does (which will be correspondingly made less capable or even dropped, e.g. Chimera, Griffon) or a replacement for something that's slipped off the main model line.

As far as new unit ideas I'd like to see, I've always liked the idea of a dirt-biker unit (perhaps motor bikes and cavalry able to be used as Rough Riders from different worlds). A command vehicle option that isn't a Russ would be cool, Salamander HQ or perhaps a new Chimera variant.

With respect to rules, I'm hesitant to even speculate at this point, the game is edging into 7E levels of absurdity with faction/detachment/stratagem bonuses and abilities, so the sky's the limit.

WRT rules, if plastic tenets happen I would expect recent dexes as well.

The Catachams could get an infiltrating melee army, Steel Legion an all transport list, Vostroyans MC weapons and Carapace etc...

Even if not every regiment got a dex GW could easily.do a light infantry dex for Catachans, Tallarn and Tanith, them a heavy Inframtry on for Kasrkin, Stell Legion and Voatryans. They play differently enough to make it worthwhile.

Greatcoat Guard or a rehash of DKOK in a similar style will do incredibly well

My IG Wishlist is to see the non-armageddon pattern [the open topped one that looks like a regular basilisk] Medusa Siege Gun, Griffon Mortar, and Colossus Bombard come as a new multi-model kit as a refresh of the Basilisk.

Medusa, Basilisk, and Griffon shouldn't be hard, since a Medusa is basically a barrel and gun shield swap, and the Griffon doesn't need a whole lot more.

If they were to do so, I'd like to see more crewmen for the guns to stand on the back platform.

NurglesR0T wrote:Greatcoat Guard or a rehash of DKOK in a similar style will do incredibly well

If they did valhallans, with Ushanka hats, that would make me do what the Sisters release didn't and make me buy up a duplicate army of one I already have. Especially if they made diverse ones. Even if they made a diverse Cadian box, I'd buy a bunch.

My dream infantry box would have:
5 male, 5 female models [and yes, I believe in forcing the mixed units and not having all-male and all-female boxed, it's important to normalize the idea of complete equality in the military, having separate female units makes them special instead of mundane]
3 of each special weapon. The Sisters of Battle box has opened a new possibility by not just having one of each, but having the maximum number of each the box's possible units could build, and I want that for Guard too.
Decoration bits for Forward Sentries, Grenadiers, and Demolitions.
Lasgun for the Sergeant!
Kit Bags! Especially with E-tools.
And I think you could achieve both greadcoated and non-greatcoated looks with a single torso and arms option and just leg swaps, so 20 legs, half with pants half with long coats.
Enough heads for whatever. Cadian modern-esque helmets? WWII helmets? Caps? Berets? Fur hats? Headscarves? Gas masks & stahlhelms? Plinth helments? Got it all.



That said, I have little to speculate about the Guard in psychic awakening.
I think there'll be no new units, and maybe at best one new character model. If there was going to be new units, they would have teased it already given that they've already previewed the AdMech new releases for Engine War which will be after Greater Good. We probably won't even get a character, since Shadowsun is already teased as the book's new hero model, and despite being IMPERIUM we're the bad guys.

We'll probably get "make your own Regiment" rules like the Eldar and the Tyranids, but it'll probably lock off stratagems, relics, and orders to do so like it does for non-space marine custom factions. We're not Space Marine enough for the diversity of Guard Regiments of different types from billions of worlds with completely different model lines at one point in time for our subfactions to be considered to have different enough fighting styles and heritage to get material even as far as Chaos does in F&F, much less go all the way to supplements that can be stacked with Make Your Own Regiment for power combos like the Space Marines.

We'll also probably see a few new stratagems, probably just making the Vigilus book obsolete though. Possibly a Sacred Rites/Tides of the Warp-esque function to pick if we're monoguard. And I think that's about it for speculation. I think I'm about as dissappointed that we have been announced for the Greater Good book as the Death Guard players are that we are.

Oh oh, one more thing! We might also see a Brood Brothers option for Tau too, but definitely no option to switch IMPERIUM for CHAOS.



Guard is kind of a "Complete" product line, like the Space Marines, where the entire line is in plastic [albeit aging], and there's stuff for basically every slot and function. Unlike the Space Marines, there's nobody on the table to give Guard more things we don't need because it'd be cool, so we won't get any new things.

But, there's so much wishlisting to do, none of it to come true :(.

If there aren't new astra telepathica units for guard as PA, I think GW misnamed the campaign.

Seeing the new admech cyberhorses made me think rough riders.

Always like Tallarn- just the look of them. I used to use them for Necromunda Ash Nomads back in the days of Citadel Journal...

Another flier?

Well, GW doesn't like doing "cheap monopose" for much anymore. The hopes of a 20 man cheap conscript box are sadly the first step on the road to disappointment. Same goes for anything else that has the words "cheap" or "simple". GW's made it pretty clear that unless we get some sort of starter set box like Shadowspear, we're going to get fancy multipart kits and like it.

Most likely what we're going to see is a box of 10 guardsmen for about 40 bucks. Odds are lasguns, special weapons, some sort of new special weapon we can only get there, and some bonus bits to make sergeants or vets, like shotguns. No way we'll get heavy weapons, the weapons are just too big to cram on the sprue. We could see a new weapon like a heavy stubber or heavy flamer though that could be carried by a single guardsmen, but that's about it in the main infantry box. We can take autoguns on vets, so who knows maybe that would be an option too. The heavy weapon kits aren't terrible, same for command boxes, so unless they come out with new regiments in plastic I don't think we'll see them rehashed. That said all the Catachan boxes, including the fairly decent command and HWS boxes, are online only, so who knows.

If we get a new regiment, my money would be on a regiment that is distinctly 40k and hard to convert, namely Vostroyans. They're very 40k, don't have a historical equivalent, and are well liked by the community. Steel Legion is a possibility due to being a classic line and also being a very well liked regiment. As much of a fan as I am of Valhallans, Mordians, and Praetorians, they're easily made from historical kits, and so are not as likely (everyone that wants them has already converted them in GW's eyes) As for Tallarn, they're cool, but I don't see them being the next poster child, even if they were a major component of the Indomitus Crusade. I would hope Cadians are no longer the poster boy regiment, their planet is gone and they're rebuilding, they're not really in a place to be the poster child of the galaxy anymore. Give that to another regiment shouldering that burden like the Catachans or Vostroyans. I don't think we'll see a brand new regiment pop up out of thin air, since we already have a wide variety of regiments in the book, may as well get those lines off the ground.

As for other stuff? The Leman Russ and Chimera kits are perfectly fine, no issues with them aside from not throwing the tank accessory sprue in. The basilisk definitely needs an update, I would combo it with a Medusa or Griffon, although odds are they'll make a new weapon. Could be cool to see a Tank Destroyer based on it's chassis or something. Rough Riders or Ratlings finally being in plastic with an alternate option would be great to see, Rough Riders could be an assault or shooting scout unit for example, since GW is obsessed with dual kits. Other than that, any new kit will probably rehash an old one, and most guard kits are servicable, if not that exciting. I mean what really needs updating besides the basilisk? Sentinel is old but decent, same with Hellhound, Leman Russes, Chimera, Deathstrike/Manticore, etc. Anything else they'll have to make a new kit for. I just pray they keep it in the theme of guard and don't let Cawl get his grubby mitts on it. It better have treads, wheels, or some bigass jet turbines and fly. No grav vehicles, no fancy combat mechs, no weird primaris lite power armor, just basic equipment. Maybe we finally get a towed artillery piece, or a proper Veterans kit, or convert some FW stuff like the Vulture or Avenger that could be done fairly easy in plastic.

But yeah that's about all the theories I have. Sadly it seems like any guard update is a long ways off. I want to hold out hope that one Rumor Engine picture is guard but the more they post without anything else "guard like", the more I'm starting to feel we're getting a character at most and that's it, if that.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

As for other stuff? The Leman Russ and Chimera kits are perfectly fine, no issues with them aside from not throwing the tank accessory sprue in. The basilisk definitely needs an update, I would combo it with a Medusa or Griffon, although odds are they'll make a new weapon. Could be cool to see a Tank Destroyer based on it's chassis or something.

Since you mentioned it, a SU-76 style tank destroyer, sharing with a basilisk would be pretty cool.

A SU-100/Jagdpanther looking thing on a Chimera hull as a completely new model would also be awesome.

IG aint gonna get anything. "Only one new character per psychic awakening!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That is, unless of course you can convince GW that imperial guardsmen are marines

I expect GW legal and marketing to push IG into a trademarked box that loses the old attraction to IG - it was intuitively normal military but extra much so - and gains new "fluff" that makes IG unlikeable - alien race troops like kroot, new Cawltech rifles and beacon helmets, special overseer mech devices for morale control... junk color to push plastic at the expense of tradition like the rest of the GW fluff marketng IP protecting business model and its products in for example Psychic Awakening

 Eonfuzz wrote:
IG aint gonna get anything. "Only one new character per psychic awakening!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That is, unless of course you can convince GW that imperial guardsmen are marines

Yeah because only Marines are getting anything new for Psykic Awakening...





I mean... I guess they look like Marines if you're really really drunk

 jeff white wrote:
I expect GW legal and marketing to push IG into a trademarked box that loses the old attraction to IG - it was intuitively normal military but extra much so - and gains new "fluff" that makes IG unlikeable - alien race troops like kroot, new Cawltech rifles and beacon helmets, special overseer mech devices for morale control... junk color to push plastic at the expense of tradition like the rest of the GW fluff marketng IP protecting business model and its products in for example Psychic Awakening

Soooooo. How do howling banshees fit that? Or Incubi? Look pretty similar to what they were before to me.

I don't know what is realistic, but what I would love to see is for rough riders to make a big return. I am thinking something parallel to the militarum tempestus. I am thinking models and rules for the standard rough riders, plus another unit (a command squad maybe) that is designed around having special weapons and being shooty. Throw in a commander type with some rough rider specific commands. While we are at it, throw in maybe a horse riding aura character. Finally, combine this with a regiment specific character which comes with a launch of new plastic models for that regiment. I'm asking for a lot, but it would certainly get me to spend some money.

tneva82 wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
I expect GW legal and marketing to push IG into a trademarked box that loses the old attraction to IG - it was intuitively normal military but extra much so - and gains new "fluff" that makes IG unlikeable - alien race troops like kroot, new Cawltech rifles and beacon helmets, special overseer mech devices for morale control... junk color to push plastic at the expense of tradition like the rest of the GW fluff marketng IP protecting business model and its products in for example Psychic Awakening

Soooooo. How do howling banshees fit that? Or Incubi? Look pretty similar to what they were before to me.

it doesn't. and even primaris Marines (his comment is a passive agressive swipe agaisnt them) mostly draw from old Space Marine concept art etc. they're hardly "unreckongizable"

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
I expect GW legal and marketing to push IG into a trademarked box that loses the old attraction to IG - it was intuitively normal military but extra much so - and gains new "fluff" that makes IG unlikeable - alien race troops like kroot, new Cawltech rifles and beacon helmets, special overseer mech devices for morale control... junk color to push plastic at the expense of tradition like the rest of the GW fluff marketng IP protecting business model and its products in for example Psychic Awakening

Soooooo. How do howling banshees fit that? Or Incubi? Look pretty similar to what they were before to me.

it doesn't. and even primaris Marines (his comment is a passive agressive swipe agaisnt them) mostly draw from old Space Marine concept art etc. they're hardly "unreckongizable"

Frankly his point about primaris is atleast partially true.

That said Astra militarum has allready been on that trip for some time.

However i think we will not see something entirely new , considering the bsf traitor guard are in essence, Sans spikes , refined cadians.
Also in regards to the demand of female models, if you have ever Seen a women in combat garb you would know that there is virtually no difference between them and their male counterparts discernable. The most important thing would be the faces and i think we all can agree that the cadian Face hasn't aged particullary well.

I think if I was going to do a mxied gender guard army I'd just take some of my sisters heads and plunk them on a cadian model

I hope a bit that they think up SOMETHING to make Wyrdvane Psykers worth taking. I have no specific idea, but it would be nice to give them some kind of tactical use.

I'm wishing for some basic regimental troops, that will get plastic parts. Yes, even before any fancy new artillery stuff or mixed gender figures. One problem for releasing such a wide range of models is that they are hard to maintain at stores..

But! They could easily release a 'platoon'-style boxed set for each regiments (valhallan, mordian etc); each including one command squad, one heavy weapon squad (of three teams) and two infantry squads (10 models each, with all of the special weapon options). What do you guys think of that?

Personally, I'd love a "Regiments and Auxilia" Supplement (or something suitably named) in the style of the SM ones, but all rolled into one book. Give us a new Order, Stratagem, Warlord Trait for each of the existing regiments, plus a couple special characters for those that don't already have them. And add on one or two new regiments (or just rules for ones that already exist but have none, Praetorians for example). Maybe even some new elite units/upgrades (Kasrkin, Catachan Devils or whatever) to add a bit of flavor to the Veteran squad option.

And most definitely a new boxed set or two of multipart figures that can easily represent most if not all of the regiments available. A 'greatcoat box' for Valhalla, Vostroya, Armageddon and a new regiment, plus a regular box for Cadia, Tallarn, Mordia, also plus a new regiment.

And yes, I am dreaming a little there

I'd like a plastic Vulture. Please. Thanks.

 Spreelock wrote:
I'm wishing for some basic regimental troops, that will get plastic parts. Yes, even before any fancy new artillery stuff or mixed gender figures. One problem for releasing such a wide range of models is that they are hard to maintain at stores..

But! They could easily release a 'platoon'-style boxed set for each regiments (valhallan, mordian etc); each including one command squad, one heavy weapon squad (of three teams) and two infantry squads (10 models each, with all of the special weapon options). What do you guys think of that?

I don't think it's actually that hard to have one box cover all the regiments.

Greatcoats vs. Pants is a leg swap. Upper body doesn't need changing.
The rest is basically just heads.

The only one that's appreciably different is shirtless Catachans.

I want them to go deeper into the scifi armor. I like cadians and I like the tempestus scions. but give me something armored something akin to the arbites enforcer partol armor from necromunda not space marine level of crazy big armor but actual decent lookgin carapace stuff... also bring back caraspace as an option

The funniest part is that the Palantine Enforcers(not Arbites. They're not Arbites! They're specifically not Arbites, as Helmawr somehow finnagled that) are wearing Flak Armor.

Worth mentioning though that we have this rumor engine:

Which suspiciously happens to look extremely similar to this new Mkoll art done up for Sabbat Worlds Crusade:


I've been wondering if the art profiles in there are the side effect of GW doing up some physical design documents of where to go with the Guard. There's a Blueblood who looks suspiciously like he'd fit in well with a Scions and Auxilia(Bullgryn, the Ratling twins out of BSF, and the Commissar models), the Tanith and Belladon(and the later Verghast intake) both share Mkoll's full chest setup while the initial Verghast have Criid's style(they show Kolea wearing the same rig) of flak vest. And then you have the Hyrkan Eighth and Urdeshi wearing Cadian styled rig, with the Urdeshi having helmets, full chestplates, a groinplate, kneepads, bracers, and armored up greaves while the Hyrkan have greaves and a single right-hand shoulderpad and either a field cap or helmet.

Female guard, and good scale that does not look derp. Would be cool to get some new tanks as well, that look really good. Even if it’s a update to the ones current.

Some mutant guard regiments would be amazing as well, stuff close enough and not aligned with chaos that the imperium allows restrictive settlement and the chance to fight for the emperor. Something a bit more than just a here is your unit and be happy would be great.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
If we get a new regiment, my money would be on a regiment that is distinctly 40k and hard to convert, namely Vostroyans. They're very 40k, don't have a historical equivalent, and are well liked by the community. Steel Legion is a possibility due to being a classic line and also being a very well liked regiment. As much of a fan as I am of Valhallans, Mordians, and Praetorians, they're easily made from historical kits, and so are not as likely (everyone that wants them has already converted them in GW's eyes) As for Tallarn, they're cool, but I don't see them being the next poster child, even if they were a major component of the Indomitus Crusade. I would hope Cadians are no longer the poster boy regiment, their planet is gone and they're rebuilding, they're not really in a place to be the poster child of the galaxy anymore. Give that to another regiment shouldering that burden like the Catachans or Vostroyans. I don't think we'll see a brand new regiment pop up out of thin air, since we already have a wide variety of regiments in the book, may as well get those lines off the ground.

This right here. If GW decides to refresh our line, it will be by creating a new, uniquely 40k vision of IG. It probably wont' be vostroyans proper, but something closer to them than any of the pseudo-historical regiments, for the reasons MrMoustaffa pointed out.

And... I'm good with that. Whether they go primaris by introducing "Astra Militarum Prime Squads" or just shuffle the old models out, I think that having a modern kit, that really has a distinct look, would be good for the army.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The funniest part is that the Palantine Enforcers(not Arbites. They're not Arbites! They're specifically not Arbites, as Helmawr somehow finnagled that) are wearing Flak Armor.

Worth mentioning though that we have this rumor engine:

Spoiler:

Which suspiciously happens to look extremely similar to this new Mkoll art done up for Sabbat Worlds Crusade:

Spoiler:

I've been wondering if the art profiles in there are the side effect of GW doing up some physical design documents of where to go with the Guard. There's a Blueblood who looks suspiciously like he'd fit in well with a Scions and Auxilia(Bullgryn, the Ratling twins out of BSF, and the Commissar models), the Tanith and Belladon(and the later Verghast intake) both share Mkoll's full chest setup while the initial Verghast have Criid's style(they show Kolea wearing the same rig) of flak vest. And then you have the Hyrkan Eighth and Urdeshi wearing Cadian styled rig, with the Urdeshi having helmets, full chestplates, a groinplate, kneepads, bracers, and armored up greaves while the Hyrkan have greaves and a single right-hand shoulderpad and either a field cap or helmet.

Please gw give us some Tanith! At least a Criid model based on that artwork. C'mon gw, SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

I don't have any major issues with the current troop models despite their old age, but a few tweaks to add some female troops would be nice indeed. For Cadians, they would look very similar to the male troops: merely different heads. For Catachans, they'd need different torsoes as well. I'm picturing a Vasquez-from-Aliens sort of aesthetic for female Catachans.

I'm just hoping they won't be single-pose models. I hate GW's current single-pose trend with a burning passion.


Bikers would be cool.

.

Considering anyone and their brother can duff up new models that could be used as guardsmen, don’t expect GW to look to expand or redo the line - they’re more likely to drop the line since its pretty much impossible to copyright anything they design for it.

However, I’ve been looking for something to do non-Mongolian rough riders, and I’d very much like either motorcycle riders or beast riders to replace them - maybe even scavenge the iron horses Admech may soon get.

I would also like to see something akin to an M8 Greyhound - a six-wheeled vehicle with an Autocannon or Heavy Stubber on it.

I’d also like to see two tanks - a light tank (ala a WW2 Stuart or Vietnam wreath Sheridan) and a tank that falls in the bracket between a Leman Russ and a Baneblade - a Heavy tank if you will to the Leman Russ medium tank and the Baneblade Superheavy.

And a way out there request would be to bring beastman back as a viable option for the Guard.

Would love to see greatcoat guard again...

I'd just like some sensible points values and rules for Orgyn. They haven't been remotely good since 3rd edition when you could give them 2 close combat weapons at +1 strength.

Based on the old armor rules Leman Russ is a light tank, the predator had nearly the same stats.

How would gw explain the guard suddenly having a new tank?

Beyond "Cawl made it " of course.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
How would gw explain the guard suddenly having a new tank?

Beyond "Cawl made it " of course.

The same way they did the Taurox?

 ImperialArmy wrote:
Based on the old armor rules Leman Russ is a light tank, the predator had nearly the same stats.

How old? I don't ever remember it being "Light", and it was AV14 as long as I remember. As of 5th it was 14/13/10 compared to a Predator's 13/11/10, so it's not really nearly the same stats, or at least it's also "nearly the same stats" as a Land Raider.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
Considering anyone and their brother can duff up new models that could be used as guardsmen, don’t expect GW to look to expand or redo the line - they’re more likely to drop the line since its pretty much impossible to copyright anything they design for it.

However, I’ve been looking for something to do non-Mongolian rough riders, and I’d very much like either motorcycle riders or beast riders to replace them - maybe even scavenge the iron horses Admech may soon get.

I would also like to see something akin to an M8 Greyhound - a six-wheeled vehicle with an Autocannon or Heavy Stubber on it.

I’d also like to see two tanks - a light tank (ala a WW2 Stuart or Vietnam wreath Sheridan) and a tank that falls in the bracket between a Leman Russ and a Baneblade - a Heavy tank if you will to the Leman Russ medium tank and the Baneblade Superheavy.

And a way out there request would be to bring beastman back as a viable option for the Guard.

Would light and heavy be the Hellhound and the Marcharius, respectively?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I want them to go deeper into the scifi armor. I like cadians and I like the tempestus scions. but give me something armored something akin to the arbites enforcer partol armor from necromunda not space marine level of crazy big armor but actual decent lookgin carapace stuff... also bring back caraspace as an option

I like the current look of their armor. It looks sci-fi enough, but also like cheap.

I think models with outfits that look more modern would be pretty cool, though, with like plate-carrier vests with a bunch of pockets. Definitely a cooler option for vets and stormtroopers than the new scions.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 ImperialArmy wrote:
Based on the old armor rules Leman Russ is a light tank, the predator had nearly the same stats.

How old? I don't ever remember it being "Light", and it was AV14 as long as I remember. As of 5th it was 14/13/10 compared to a Predator's 13/11/10, so it's not really nearly the same stats, or at least it's also "nearly the same stats" as a Land Raider.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
Considering anyone and their brother can duff up new models that could be used as guardsmen, don’t expect GW to look to expand or redo the line - they’re more likely to drop the line since its pretty much impossible to copyright anything they design for it.

However, I’ve been looking for something to do non-Mongolian rough riders, and I’d very much like either motorcycle riders or beast riders to replace them - maybe even scavenge the iron horses Admech may soon get.

I would also like to see something akin to an M8 Greyhound - a six-wheeled vehicle with an Autocannon or Heavy Stubber on it.

I’d also like to see two tanks - a light tank (ala a WW2 Stuart or Vietnam wreath Sheridan) and a tank that falls in the bracket between a Leman Russ and a Baneblade - a Heavy tank if you will to the Leman Russ medium tank and the Baneblade Superheavy.

And a way out there request would be to bring beastman back as a viable option for the Guard.

Would light and heavy be the Hellhound and the Marcharius, respectively?
.

Well, the Hellhound strikes me more more as a “what if we turned a Bradley AFV into a zippo?”, and the Marcharius is Forgeworld - I’d rather a model I can get at the FLGS on my discount instead of the jacked-up prices of FW. Statwise, they may fit, but certainly not aesthetically.

 Stormonu wrote:
Considering anyone and their brother can duff up new models that could be used as guardsmen, don’t expect GW to look to expand or redo the line - they’re more likely to drop the line since its pretty much impossible to copyright anything they design for it.

That's why I thought of Necromunda gangs. Technically any near future gang model can work for Necro, but the gangs have been updated for the 2010s-20s while still being clearly heirs to the originals. (Except the Delaque, but I love both old and new Delaque so that's OK)

Taking the recognizable regiments and updating them would be a way to create something distinct but recognizable. The regiments from the 90s may be OOP but they still appear in art and fiction, even their names are alive in the paint ranges.

The plastic Catachans looked pretty much like the metals, but they had to, since there were no plastic officers or heavy weapons when they came out. But the Cadians were completely reimagined from the metals, which is a shame since I love the metal Cadians. Bascialy the only thing they have in common is is they both have helmets.

So I would not expect plastic Valhallans to look exactly like the metals nor like WWII Russians, but to be some sort of gothic sci fi winter troops.

Yeah sure with digital sculpts and 3D printing they will be knock offs out there within a month, but that's true for any army GW might do.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
How would gw explain the guard suddenly having a new tank?

Beyond "Cawl made it " of course.

They could go with a new, old tank; similar to to the malcador tanks from FW. Due to the demands of the war front, those old moth balled tanks are pulled out of storage. Maybe Guilliman forces the Ad Mech to crack open someof their old vaults.

 Mr Nobody wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
How would gw explain the guard suddenly having a new tank?

Beyond "Cawl made it " of course.

They could go with a new, old tank; similar to to the malcador tanks from FW. Due to the demands of the war front, those old moth balled tanks are pulled out of storage. Maybe Guilliman forces the Ad Mech to crack open someof their old vaults.

That could work. As long as it gets better rules than the current malcador.

Mr Nobody wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
How would gw explain the guard suddenly having a new tank?

Beyond "Cawl made it " of course.

They could go with a new, old tank; similar to to the malcador tanks from FW. Due to the demands of the war front, those old moth balled tanks are pulled out of storage. Maybe Guilliman forces the Ad Mech to crack open someof their old vaults.

It wouldn't be unheard of. The Carnodon was introduced that way recently, as having been brought back out of mothball because there just wasn't enough Leman Russ production to meet warzone demands.

There's also as a converted obsolete tank as an option, like the Jagdpanzer 38t and SU-76, which would be pretty cool.

You can also just have "this is a new tank", and it doesn't have to be from Cawl. Several Leman Russ variants were developed in the span of "recently" to meet shortfalls in production of established variants [Notably, the Thunderer for the Destroyer, the Annihilator for the Vanquisher, and at one time IIRC the Conqueror for the Battle Tank]. Several Baneblade variants are also not STC, and are novel developments by forge worlds that can't produce enough Volcano Cannons given sanction by the AdMech. The Razorback was also developed in like M36.

Stormonu wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Would light and heavy be the Hellhound and the Marcharius, respectively?
.

Well, the Hellhound strikes me more more as a “what if we turned a Bradley AFV into a zippo?”, and the Marcharius is Forgeworld - I’d rather a model I can get at the FLGS on my discount instead of the jacked-up prices of FW. Statwise, they may fit, but certainly not aesthetically.

I think the Marcharius aesthetic is coherent with the rest of the guard [unlike the Carnodon], but it is expensive and very bad.

As for the Hellhound & it's variants, they're not still infantry fighting vehicles, so I guess they're light tanks.



As a random observation: the Basilisk now canonically predates the development of the Chimera. [The Basilisk was in service in it's current form in the Space Marine Legions contemporaneously with the Aurox, which would be replaced by the superior Chimera when it was developed] I guess that means somebody decided that a Basilisk without it's gun would be a pretty good troop carrier, took off the gun and enclosed it to make the Chimera.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

As a random observation: the Basilisk now canonically predates the development of the Chimera. [The Basilisk was in service in it's current form in the Space Marine Legions contemporaneously with the Aurox, which would be replaced by the superior Chimera when it was developed] I guess that means somebody decided that a Basilisk without it's gun would be a pretty good troop carrier, took off the gun and enclosed it to make the Chimera.

Hehe. This is in line with Imperial thinking: "Guns first, care for human lives second."

Since we're wishlisting I'd like to add in Command light tanks and actual command chimeras (for artillery).

A whole lot of wishlisting but Cadians aren’t going anywhere since GW made genecult conversion kits specifically using Cadian spruces.
Any new plastic regiment will have loads of lead up marketing until release not quite sisters of battle but like primaris 7th edition revamp type marketing. It’s to big of a project and cost. My guess would be over the top greatcoat like redesigned steel legion all Chem up with a new story line explaining why.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

As a random observation: the Basilisk now canonically predates the development of the Chimera. [The Basilisk was in service in mostly it's current form in the Space Marine Legions contemporaneously with the Aurox, which would be replaced by the superior Chimera when it was developed] I guess that means somebody decided that a Basilisk without it's gun would be a pretty good troop carrier, took off the gun and enclosed it to make the Chimera.

Hehe. This is in line with Imperial thinking: "Guns first, care for human lives second."

When you put it that way, it makes sense now! Definitely Imperial thinking.

Also, more "how did the development go", courtesy of Forge World:
First. there was the Basilisk, and it was available to the Space Marine Legions. It looked basically like the one we have today, but with a more complicated gun shield that also provided side protection to the gun crew and a couple of small chassis alternations. This Basilisk seems to be the original manufacture.
Then, as the Great Crusade grew, it became apparent that the Space Marines couldn't do everything, and the Imperalis Auxilia was formed. The Imperalis Auxilia needed tanks and artillery, and received the Aurox and Carnodon. At some point, they also had Basilisks. But this Basilisk wasn't the same as the one already in service, this one was on a Leman Russ chassis.
Then, some time later, all those Leman Russ Basilisks went away and were replaced with the original design Basilisk, but with some simplified components like the shield and HB mount to streamline production for the IG's requirements.
Some time later, field modifications introduced the fully enclosed Armageddon pattern and re-introduced the side protection on the Vanaheim pattern, but these didn't really gain widespread acceptance, presumably because of the added complexity.

This might give us an insight into a whole development timeline of the IG's equipment, at least until Forgeworld makes a new model and messes it up again.
First there was the Basilisk, and it belonged to the Space Marines
Then there was the Aurox and Carnodon, and belonged to the proto-Guard
Then, the Leman Russ was developed. Presumably, the Imperium liked it so much, and since they planned to phase out all the Carnodons, they decided to also make the Imperialis Auxilia's new artillery tank share the chassis for parts compatibility and allow more efficient maintainence and manufacture. But they didn't decide to make a Leman Russ chassis APC while composing this full vehicle family, requiring to some degree that the Carnodon and Aurox family remain in production [also, the prodigious quantity already out there remaining in service and still needing spare parts], if at a reduced rate. Maybe the Leman Russ just couldn't be made into a satisfactory APC.
Then the Great Crusade ended, and the Horus Heresy began and ended. Major reorganizations occurred. Presumably, Aurox production ceases or slows to a trickle, like most other production.
The Imperial Guard was formed from the Imperialis Auxilia, and the Space Marines were barred from having heavy artillery. Presumably, the original plan for rearmament included the Leman Russ Basilisk, the Leman Russ Tank as we know it, and the Aurox. But after all that carnage and with all the reorganization and rebuilding, all the tank chassis that could be made needed to be made into tanks, but all these original-style Basilisks were now available because the Space Marines didn't need them and the factories to make them. Convenient for rapid re-armament, but not so much for aspirations of keeping the vehicle family. But ah, some enterprising techpriest observes: this artillery tank has a big open area in the back of it. Rather than resume Aurox production, why don't we take off the gun and cover over the back, and now it's an armored personel carrier and we can have a Basilisk-based family of vehicles, with the heavy MBT as the odd man out. And so, the Chimera was developed, and entered into full production along side the original-style Basilisk, and the Basilisk chassis was so good and versatile that literally everything for the new IG became based off of it and the techpriests and logisticians wondered why they hadn't thought of this sooner.

If Scions are an indicator I'd rather they don't update anything in IG anymore hah.

Give plastic Kasrkin now.

Say how old are the plastic cadian and catachans kits exactly? I'm not too new to the hobby, But they were already around back when I first seriously started collecting.

I do anticipate that a new guardsmen kit will be released eventually, the last major Guard release was nearly six years ago, which came alongside a contentious rebranding. Since then we've only had snippets. The diversity of guard aesthetics does pose some difficulty for GW: Futuristic or historical, Sci-Fi or retro, etc. Space Marines don't have this issue as much because the base power armour remains largely identical, with mostly ornamental differences. If I we're to guess they'd probably stick with Cadians for the time being, with an updated kit that consolidates the infantry/command/heavy weapons options.

Caradman Sturnn wrote:
Say how old are the plastic cadian and catachans kits exactly? I'm not too new to the hobby, But they were already around back when I first seriously started collecting.

2002 and 1994 respectively I believe, with some slight updates to rejigger sprues perhaps and repackaging to halve the number of models you get for the same price

Metals were circa 1994.

Plastic Catachans 1999 or 2000
Plastic Cadians 2002, along with plastic heavy weapons
Plastic command squads 2008 or so? Same time as the Valkyrie and new Chimera.

Good catch on the dates.

That said, trying to tell the plastic from the metal catachans is not easy, especially when GW decides this makes a good website marketing image for the plastics

Yeah honestly the more I think about it the more I believe if GW wants to add anything to guard vehicle wise they need to cannibalize the FW range. FW clearly only cares about Horus Heresy these days, and sooner or later many of our favorite guard vehicles will be lost to the sands of times, a lot already have.

May as well give us the Medusa, the Macharius, the Tauros, etc. in plastic. You already know guard players want it, you already know FW doesn't give a gak about anything other than HH, and you don't have to spend a lot of time designing something new that players are just going to hate and only buy after spending $20 on wheel kits. Its a win/win/win, which of course means GW would never do it Can't wait for my new Cawl Repulsive Russes!

And yeah, I bought some more Catachans the other day to fill some gaps in my Catachan army, good lord I forgot how basic that kit was. At least the painted examples on the store page can't be claimed as false advertising, they're a pretty good warning of what you're getting yourself into. They really need to introduce some new infantry kits. This level of quality would be inexcusable for any other major modeling company, especially as the bread and butter unit of a main army. I'd credit their Cadian and Catachan kits as singlehandedly supporting most of the 3rd party guard designers out there, no other army has infantry that are so readily converted and substituted as guard. Heck, I'd wager you could combine every other codex in the game and it wouldn't come close to matching the amount of 3rd party guard players buy. Granted, you could put out state of the art kits tomorrow at $40 for 20 guardsmen and there would still be players converting their own regiments, but it would definitely cut down on the amount of people who say to hell with GW plastics and try to buy infantry that aren't hideous.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
...May as well give us the Medusa, the Macharius, the Tauros, etc. in plastic. You already know guard players want it, you already know FW doesn't give a gak about anything other than HH...

You know the Medusa and the Macharius at least are really useful things to have in HH, right?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
...May as well give us the Medusa, the Macharius, the Tauros, etc. in plastic. You already know guard players want it, you already know FW doesn't give a gak about anything other than HH...

You know the Medusa and the Macharius at least are really useful things to have in HH, right?

I thought they only got Medusa on some weird HH tank platform? Much like how the Basilisk isn't mounted on a Chimera platform in it, but some weird HH space marine tank chassis. Also didn't know the Macharius was in the Heresy, seems weird that a tank named after a guy from long after the Heresy was finished with would be used in HH. What is it called in HH?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
...May as well give us the Medusa, the Macharius, the Tauros, etc. in plastic. You already know guard players want it, you already know FW doesn't give a gak about anything other than HH...

You know the Medusa and the Macharius at least are really useful things to have in HH, right?

I thought they only got Medusa on some weird HH tank platform? Much like how the Basilisk isn't mounted on a Chimera platform in it, but some weird HH space marine tank chassis. Also didn't know the Macharius was in the Heresy, seems weird that a tank named after a guy from long after the Heresy was finished with would be used in HH. What is it called in HH?

The Legion Medusa and Basilisk are what you are thinking of. There is also a Solar Pattern for both that uses the Leman Russ chassis, for use with the Solar Auxilia.

The modern patterns of the Macharius are post heresy models. It's a newer vehicle based on pieced together historical records of a long forgotten heavy tank design (one of many designs) used during the Heresy era. The name of the original tank is unknown.

The main heavy tank during the Great Crusade was the Malcador, whose main claim to fame was its impressive speed and maneuverability, for its size and weight. By the time of the Heresy, the SPHESS MUHREENZ were getting fancier heavy tanks, while the Imperial Army was increasingly leaning towards the popular and cost effective Leman Russ as a jack of all trades battle tank. Fortunately for the Malcador, the Horus Heresy saved it from the scrap heap.

Just out of curiosity, was there ever the canonical story of why the Leman Russ tank is named for the dude?

Did he discover the STC? Did they just really like him?

Or was the orphan boy named for the tank? Hmmm...

Tank riders would be nice to model, but I’m afraid they’d have dismal rules.

Also, why did GW ditch wheeled/towed anti-tank guns like the rapier?

MrMoustaffa wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
...May as well give us the Medusa, the Macharius, the Tauros, etc. in plastic. You already know guard players want it, you already know FW doesn't give a gak about anything other than HH...

You know the Medusa and the Macharius at least are really useful things to have in HH, right?

I thought they only got Medusa on some weird HH tank platform? Much like how the Basilisk isn't mounted on a Chimera platform in it, but some weird HH space marine tank chassis. Also didn't know the Macharius was in the Heresy, seems weird that a tank named after a guy from long after the Heresy was finished with would be used in HH. What is it called in HH?

Nah, it's just a Chimera-chassis, but space-marine-ified. It's still called "Legion Basilisk" and "Legion Medusa".


I don't think the Marcharius exists in HH.

Stormonu wrote:Tank riders would be nice to model, but I’m afraid they’d have dismal rules.

Also, why did GW ditch wheeled/towed anti-tank guns like the rapier?

Was the Rapier Gun Carrier ever actually around before it's introduction by Forgeworld?

I think that the last towed AT guns were those old metal Valhallan/Tallarn/Mordian ones. I think the last of those went away fairly recently when they finally put the axe to all the metal IG regiment models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Just out of curiosity, was there ever the canonical story of why the Leman Russ tank is named for the dude?

Did he discover the STC? Did they just really like him?

Or was the orphan boy named for the tank? Hmmm...

IIRC it was discovered/developed by the Space Wolves during the Crusade. We used to be allowed to have them in our army.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Was the Rapier Gun Carrier ever actually around before it's introduction by Forgeworld?

The Rapier has been around since the Rogue Trader era.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

...I don't think the Marcharius exists in HH...

...Or I could be confusing it with the Malcador.

Duskweaver wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Was the Rapier Gun Carrier ever actually around before it's introduction by Forgeworld?

The Rapier has been around since the Rogue Trader era.

Cool. I wasn't playing at that time, so I didn't know that. Kind of neat, and funny looking [like so much of the old stuff]

AnomanderRake wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

...I don't think the Marcharius exists in HH...

...Or I could be confusing it with the Malcador.

Dunno. I don't actually play HH.

There’s going to be a full Tempestus supplement in Greater Good.

You know? I could go for a Leman Russ pattern that didn't have the comically huge battlecannon. I like the tank for the most part, but a more legit-looking kit would be really cool.

My wish for Greater Good is the obvious new Build-A-Regiment abilities, with a way to do a "tide of traitors" redeploy and back to full health strategym.

Really don't think we need more units, either infantry or armour.

I think a reasonably simple solution to the "the infantry kits are old" problem would be to mix and match.

GW releases a heavy infantry, standard infantry and light infantry box.

The heavy infantry uses Cadian heads and torsos, and Scion arms and legs. The guns are adjusted to have power packs instead of power cables.

Standard infantry is just a tidied up Cadian box, with some more special weapon options/sergeant options.

Light infantry uses Cadian/Catachan legs, and either the "dress uniform" torsos and arms from the chimera/command squad boxes, or uses Catachan torsos and some arms are found to fit them.

Considering all the minis and moulds are CAD based nowadays I can't see it being that difficult to mix and match the sprues.

Pick your own regiment style is the obvious.

Stealthy tanith anyone? -1 to hit infantry and cover ftw

Better strats will be helpful. Some strats off the top of my head:

Max shots from random shot weapons (12 shot battlecannons! Maybe once per game)
AT shell +1 Wound vehicle (boosts BC and artillery)
Tide of traitors without reinforcement points (i.e. fix the vahalla fail strat)
Plain russ can order itself (maybe allow it to be selected pregame)
Paratrooper strat, pregame infantry squads and officers to be able to deepstrike (say pick 3)

It would also be nice to integrate some of the Vigilus strats into the main book without having to use detachments.

Really I dread them updating the infantry kits as they will be off the wall expensive and probably look way off with the current lines. What I'd like to see would be a Bassie dual or triple kit for Arty options and Rough Riders with a dual or more kit to make a couple of units and command units with a commander etc.

Honestly most of the line is old but most of it is serviceable, it's rules that are lacking for the Russ variants to make them worth it for most of them and that goes for most of the guard units currently. Those two mentioned forces would be great additions however and I'd be happy with that.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Really I dread them updating the infantry kits as they will be off the wall expensive and probably look way off with the current lines.

Exactly. I think everyone should be careful what they wish for. Next thing we know our Chimeras get as repulsive as the Taurox and infantry get a downgrade á-la Kasrkin -> Scions

 Insectum7 wrote:
You know? I could go for a Leman Russ pattern that didn't have the comically huge battlecannon. I like the tank for the most part, but a more legit-looking kit would be really cool.

And some ground clearance for the love of the Emperor! Just a foot or two worth!

LoftyS wrote:

Exactly. I think everyone should be careful what they wish for. Next thing we know our Chimeras get as repulsive as the Taurox and infantry get a downgrade á-la Kasrkin -> Scions

Infantry didn't "get a downgrade" with the Scions.

It started with the first Robin Cruddace book, when Grenadiers became a Veteran option that just granted Carapace Armor instead of Carapace and Hellguns.
The Kasrkin when introduced with The Eye of Terror army list? They were Stormtroopers that couldn't Deep Strike or Infiltrate.
Grenadiers from the Doctrines Codex? Same thing--Stormtroopers that couldn't DS or Infiltrate.

You want Kasrkin to make a comeback? Ask for a Grenadiers kit with Hellguns and Carapace Armor.

I actually like the new scions. Their look differentiates them from standard regimental troops. But I also like the kasrkin, so i’d be down for kasrkin-style grenadiers.

I wouldn't mind Kasrkin returning through a Strategem a la Veteran Intercessors:

Kasrkin
At the start of the game, before deployment, select one Tempestus Scions unit in a Cadian detachment. That unit loses Faction<Militarum Tempestus> and gains Faction <Cadian>. You may only use this Strategem once per battle.

 Kanluwen wrote:

LoftyS wrote:

Exactly. I think everyone should be careful what they wish for. Next thing we know our Chimeras get as repulsive as the Taurox and infantry get a downgrade á-la Kasrkin -> Scions

Infantry didn't "get a downgrade" with the Scions.

It started with the first Robin Cruddace book, when Grenadiers became a Veteran option that just granted Carapace Armor instead of Carapace and Hellguns.
The Kasrkin when introduced with The Eye of Terror army list? They were Stormtroopers that couldn't Deep Strike or Infiltrate.
Grenadiers from the Doctrines Codex? Same thing--Stormtroopers that couldn't DS or Infiltrate.

You want Kasrkin to make a comeback? Ask for a Grenadiers kit with Hellguns and Carapace Armor.

Pretty sure the poster is implying that cosmetically Scions are a step back from the Kasrkin - a personal opinion, nothing more.

 Dysartes wrote:

Pretty sure the poster is implying that cosmetically Scions are a step back from the Kasrkin - a personal opinion, nothing more.

I'm aware.

My point remains the same:
It started with the Cruddace-led book. Once Grenadiers became "You get Carapace Armor and that's it", it was game done for Kasrkin.

I've said before and will repeat again--if we want Kasrkin back, a good place for it would be the return of a Grenadiers unit outfitted with unique equipment. One thing that got mentioned a few times in the lore were heavy stubbers done up ala the smartguns from Aliens, with variable ammunition types.

My wishlisting

Pick your own regiment is a great idea that looks like its in the pudding

-Wyrdvane psychers getting something to make them worth it over astropaths. If they collectiveley got the character keyword that might do it?

- A strategem for Ogyrns. I bought a pack, assembled, painted but have yet to use them...then Chapter approved raised their points cost for some reason. Maybe this is the reason?

-Something for Ratlings, probaly a strategem that you can use before game starts to mess with the opponent. Reflecting Ratlings mischief making. 1 enemy unit gets -1'' movement for 1 cp if you have at least one unit of ratlings in your army. One use only.

Strategem "You want to live forever" 1cp Choose one Astra Militarum infantry unit except Bullgryns and/or Ogryns in the charge phase. That unit is treated as rolling a 12 on their charge roll and has a 6+ FNP for the duration of that phase.

Supercharging Hellguns- Treated like plasma, but instead you get increased range and +1 strength. Roll a 1 and die

Something for Exterminator and Vanquisher Leman Russ variants to make them worth while. Ideally it would be rewritten rules but at the point it seems were using strategems and relics to balance so if thats what it is then that. I only run one Tank commander and want to use it as a Vanquisher but just can't bring myself to take something that is Heavy 1 over Heavy d6.

Not going to happen wishlisting

-Ridgerunners and bikes for my Tallarn

-Griffons

-Salamander variants

-Demo Charges back for Special Weapon squads

-F!@#ing Battle Blimps( jk...sorta)

Battle blimps would be awesome. Not likely, but awesome.

Admech are far more likely to get battle blimps imo.

Dandelion wrote:
Admech are far more likely to get battle blimps imo.

That’s fair. But we can dream!

Dandelion wrote:
Admech are far more likely to get battle blimps imo.

if they get rough rider cyber dog horses then guard can ask for battle blimps

Tbh, id rather guard get rough riders back before giving them blimps.

This is niche, but I really, really want to see a Stratagem for Scions that addresses the massive anti-synergy between Hot-Shot Lasguns and Deep Strike. Having to come down outside 9" means only one shot and no extras on 6s.

I'm not super picky about what it might be. Just something to make those HSLGs a little more useful.

 catbarf wrote:
This is niche, but I really, really want to see a Stratagem for Scions that addresses the massive anti-synergy between Hot-Shot Lasguns and Deep Strike. Having to come down outside 9" means only one shot and no extras on 6s.

I'm not super picky about what it might be. Just something to make those HSLGs a little more useful.

Yeah, it sucks that it's a lot more efficient to use normal lasguns with FRFSRF than it is to do anything with a scion's basic gun simply because the short range kills any sort of weight of fire they might have, even the 9" means you'll basically never get their 6+ proc to hit in most games with their HSLG's, outside of maybe one lucky turn and that's it. I really wish they changed both HSVG to Assault 4 and HSLG's to assault 2 or 3, so then you would feel like they're real shock troops, hitting hard on the move rather than the rather noodly feeling of some token HSLG shots here and there while you're basically just banking on plasma guns to do all the work.

Dandelion wrote:
Tbh, id rather guard get rough riders back before giving them blimps.

I'd rather get Medusae, Griffons, and Colossi back before cavalry scouts, though. Bring in the big guns!
That said, I do also like the idea of having cavalrymen with carbines. Maybe ditch the spears and have a bunch of special weapons.


I'd also like to see the return of Beast Hunter Shells for Vanquishers. Maybe as a relic to make them do Mortal Wounds or something.

 catbarf wrote:
This is niche, but I really, really want to see a Stratagem for Scions that addresses the massive anti-synergy between Hot-Shot Lasguns and Deep Strike. Having to come down outside 9" means only one shot and no extras on 6s.

I'm not super picky about what it might be. Just something to make those HSLGs a little more useful.

I think we'll probably be getting something like that, we'll find out on Friday.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
Tbh, id rather guard get rough riders back before giving them blimps.

I'd rather get Medusae, Griffons, and Colossi back before cavalry scouts, though. Bring in the big guns!
That said, I do also like the idea of having cavalrymen with carbines. Maybe ditch the spears and have a bunch of special weapons.


I'd also like to see the return of Beast Hunter Shells for Vanquishers. Maybe as a relic to make them do Mortal Wounds or something.

I’d split rough riders into two units: lancers and dragoons. The lancers keep their boom stick, but the dragoons get hot shot lasguns and special weapons. Basically mounted scions. And a mounted commissar while we are at it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Pretty sure the poster is implying that cosmetically Scions are a step back from the Kasrkin - a personal opinion, nothing more.

I'm aware.

My point remains the same:
It started with the Cruddace-led book. Once Grenadiers became "You get Carapace Armor and that's it", it was game done for Kasrkin.

I've said before and will repeat again--if we want Kasrkin back, a good place for it would be the return of a Grenadiers unit outfitted with unique equipment. One thing that got mentioned a few times in the lore were heavy stubbers done up ala the smartguns from Aliens, with variable ammunition types.

I don't mind their loadout, (for the grunts) it's just the ugly torso needing 3rd party bits I'm annoyed with, they lost their tacticool look and now just look like some rando palace guards instead of specops. And don't get me started on the squad leader having to have idiotic CQC weapons GAH

Ok, new wish list. That guard become off the chain. I'm talking, make Iron hands cry, ya hear me ? Bring it really up to 11 and let the bullets fly. You know, make them the party poopers.

Just kidding, but seriously, OFF, THE, CHAIN. #Phogoth4life

How about this proposal?

4 infantry boxes:

Conscripts, 20 per box, one peice model (maybe separate heads) plain fatiques, different body types (old, young, tall, short, fat, skinny)

Light infantry, 6+ save, +1" move, scout, 2 special weapons per squad, no heavy. Stripped down version of Cadian uniform, rolled up sleeves, bare heads, some caps and hats. Optional pistol/CC weapon.

Medium infantry, as standard, Cadian style armor, optional mean scarred vet heads and shotguns. Includes heavy weapon sprue.

Heavy Infantry, 4+ save, heavy lasguns/hellguns/hot shots, optional shot cannons (S4 shotguns).

It would suck to loose the different planetary uniforms but this would really open diversity for the guard. Include some formation type rule if all your infantry are the same type so you can have human waves or guerilla forces or heavy shock troops.

Just need one box for the coat-wearing regiments (DKoK, Steel Legion, Vostroyan, Valhallan) with tack-on "fluffy coat edges" and fruity heads for the latter two.

One box for Cadian and Mordian

One box for Tallarn and Chaos Cultists.

The last box solving a massive issue for two factions in one fell swoop.

Sneak peak just released on Warhammer Community. New regiments seem to be vehicle oriented, but that is probably just how it appears based on what they have shown us.

Not sure how the Scions will interact with the new Regiments traits, probably still locked to Tempestus. Otherwise that ability to rapid fire at 18" would be auto take

Fisheyes wrote:
Sneak peak just released on Warhammer Community. New regiments seem to be vehicle oriented, but that is probably just how it appears based on what they have shown us.

Not sure how the Scions will interact with the new Regiments traits, probably still locked to Tempestus. Otherwise that ability to rapid fire at 18" would be auto take

Scions are locked into having the Militarum Tempestus keyword and don't get [REGIMENT], so the new traits are still off-limits unless something significant changes.

Bunch of stuff on the FB page

Assuming those replace the default Storm Troopers doctrine, these seem to unlock some interesting new variants.

To save everyone else going to Facebook to find it, these are the new doctrines:

Crack Shots- Rapid Fire weapons gain 6" of range
Resolute Heroism- When firing at the closest enemy, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores a bonus hit
Mobilised Infantry- No penalty for moving and shooting Heavy, and +1 to hit on the turn a unit disembarks
Prized Weaponry- Everything increases AP by 1
Predatory Strike- Within half range, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores a bonus hit
Death From The Dark- Each model destroyed by shooting counts as two casualties for the purpose of morale

So, some off the cuff thoughts on each one:

-Crack Shots seems the ticket for making bare-bones deep-striking squads useful. It'll let them Rapid Fire on the drop, and small squads dropped in to secure objectives will have a bit more effective range to contribute.
-Resolute Heroism and Predatory Strike are two pretty similar variations on the basic Storm Troopers doctrine. Kinda meh. Predatory Strike is better for plasma.
-Mobilised Infantry sounds real useful for both deep-striking hot-shot volley guns and, obviously, for mechanized Scions. Since it applies to the unit rather than the transport, this might sync well with stuffing the Scions in Chimeras (taken in a separate detachment). Could also be helpful with Valkyries, since unlike the Tempestus Drop Force warlord trait it's not tied to a single character.
-Prized Weaponry also seems kind of meh. Hot-shots are AP-2 and plasma is AP-3 to begin with; more seems like overkill. Is there a niche use I'm not seeing?
-Death From The Dark sounds fun but I'm not sure how useful it really is. Killing three Space Marines in a squad and having a suddenly non-negligible chance for the rest to run away could be useful. This also, I think, will significantly boost the army's chaff-clearing ability. Thoughts?

Anyways, now it looks like Scions have some meaningful choices for army composition based on doctrines, so I'm onboard with this.

I wonder if those replace the existing Tempestus Scions doctrine, or are in addition. (my guess is replace, but still a couple of them look pretty good)


More AM goodness on the Community page:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/06/the-greater-good-astra-militarum-faction-focusgw-homepage-post-4/

I'm going to go ahead and guess that it's in addition to, with the Stormtroopers doctrine becoming their equivalent of a 'pure' army bonus since locking yourself into a single faction can be rough.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and guess that it's in addition to, with the Stormtroopers doctrine becoming their equivalent of a 'pure' army bonus since locking yourself into a single faction can be rough.

Yeah, I certainly hope its in addition to, given how unit restricted a pure Scions detachment is. Hoping that the rules make weapon options more than just plasma guns viable for Scion squads, since I love the concept of HSVG and mass HSLG fire. Maybe a stratagem or ability to change their HSLG to assault 2 and their HSVG to assault 4? It would be cool to see them show off their shock troop role better than it is right now.

I think the HSVG is a little underrated, even if it's not quite on the level of the plasma gun- it's been indirectly buffed by reductions to the base Scion cost, making cheaper weapon options a little more useful.

With four shots, it can overcome its low S through the Tempestus order to re-roll failed wounds. It's half the price of a plasma gun, gets twice as many shots at close range and four times as many at long range, and doesn't have to worry about Gets Hot. Sure, it's got a point less of AP and it's only D1, but I'd say it's more flexible.

The main weakness is still that they're Heavy, but I think that's more of a problem if you're counting on Storm Troopers for the bonus shots on 6s. Assuming these new doctrines replace Storm Troopers, that gives some more options- the ability to move and fire Heavy without penalty is an obvious possibility, but extra hits on unmodified 6s could work too.

Also, for just 18pts more than a suicide Command Squad with four plasma guns, you can take a full ten-man squad of Scions with four HSVGs to sit on an objective and fire at full effectiveness from 24". I think the HSVG is already worth considering, but if we get some new stratagems that help it out more it'll be a solid choice.

 catbarf wrote:
I think the HSVG is a little underrated, even if it's not quite on the level of the plasma gun- it's been indirectly buffed by reductions to the base Scion cost, making cheaper weapon options a little more useful.

With four shots, it can overcome its low S through the Tempestus order to re-roll failed wounds. It's half the price of a plasma gun, gets twice as many shots at close range and four times as many at long range, and doesn't have to worry about Gets Hot. Sure, it's got a point less of AP and it's only D1, but I'd say it's more flexible.

The main weakness is still that they're Heavy, but I think that's more of a problem if you're counting on Storm Troopers for the bonus shots on 6s. Assuming these new doctrines replace Storm Troopers, that gives some more options- the ability to move and fire Heavy without penalty is an obvious possibility, but extra hits on unmodified 6s could work too.

Also, for just 18pts more than a suicide Command Squad with four plasma guns, you can take a full ten-man squad of Scions with four HSVGs to sit on an objective and fire at full effectiveness from 24". I think the HSVG is already worth considering, but if we get some new stratagems that help it out more it'll be a solid choice.

I didn't actually notice the new doctrine rules Scions are getting, so in that case with the one that lets you fire and move without penalty for heavy weapons, I think it's alright the way it is atm. I like how there's a doctrine for both deep strike style lists and mechanized ones now, because it always felt skewed to using Valkyries and their inbuilt deep strike since there was no synergy with Scions and their transports weirdly enough. I'm glad to see that's no longer the case. I kinda feel sad that the Psian Jackals have the most situational trait (though ironically still better at inflicting morale than actual Night Lords since there's no cap) but I love the fact that the Lamdan Lions AP trait also technically counts for CC, so a squad of dinky scions hit harder AP wise than Chosen or Intercessors do without power weapons, power knives go!

Ty for sharing the Scion traits, did not see them.

I love the Crack Shot trait (+6" range), that far outweighs the original ability of extra shots on 6s.

HSVG are nice (and I usually take a squad in my Tempestus Bat), but I keep finding that it's already very easy to get mass firepower from other units. Hitting on 4s when you DS is hardly the end of the world

In our group we've revised the codices for our rules, but for the Guard we added a light truck/jeep equivalent. With a transport capacity of 5 and light armor we figured it just made sense as an addendum to a mechanized force, but we've found it it to extremely useful in shifting small elite units around the table.

 amanita wrote:
In our group we've revised the codices for our rules, but for the Guard we added a light truck/jeep equivalent. With a transport capacity of 5 and light armor we figured it just made sense as an addendum to a mechanized force, but we've found it it to extremely useful in shifting small elite units around the table.

Isn't that pretty much a Centaur?

The Scion traits were only posted on Facebook, but tomorrow we get an actual article.

So, the article is up.

High-level takeaways:

-Scions are getting 14 new stratagems- 8 generic, plus one per new regiment.

-The doctrines shown yesterday are replacements for the generic Storm Troopers doctrine. No stacking, unfortunately.

-Each regiment is getting a unique Relic and Warlord Trait.

So, it seems that Scions are being treated as a standalone faction, and the different regiments are going to have more of an impact than just choice of doctrine.

I think I'm going to hold off on the theoryhammer until we see what all the unique stratagems are.

So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Storm troopers aren't a faction. They're an IG Auxilia subfaction, like Adeptus Astra Telepathica. It's cool that you can customize them now.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Schadenfreude would apply, except, i play csm and don't get them anyways...

Feelsironwarriors.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Storm troopers aren't a faction. They're an IG Auxilia subfaction, like Adeptus Astra Telepathica. It's cool that you can customize them now.

Alright, that's fair. Wouldn't that mean though you'd have to ignore WYSIWYG in terms of paint scheme? Which is fine, I don't really care as long as one is consistent about it, but to some that's a problem.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Storm troopers aren't a faction. They're an IG Auxilia subfaction, like Adeptus Astra Telepathica. It's cool that you can customize them now.

Alright, that's fair. Wouldn't that mean though you'd have to ignore WYSIWYG in terms of paint scheme? Which is fine, I don't really care as long as one is consistent about it, but to some that's a problem.

I don't think theres a wysiwyg paint scheme thing for IG in the first place.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Storm troopers aren't a faction. They're an IG Auxilia subfaction, like Adeptus Astra Telepathica. It's cool that you can customize them now.

Alright, that's fair. Wouldn't that mean though you'd have to ignore WYSIWYG in terms of paint scheme? Which is fine, I don't really care as long as one is consistent about it, but to some that's a problem.

I don't think theres a wysiwyg paint scheme thing for IG in the first place.

They literally show you what the scion schemes look like in their respective doctrine pages.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Schadenfreude would apply, except, i play csm and don't get them anyways...

Feelsironwarriors.

You think you're Iron Warriors feel bad how do you think my Night Lords feel knowing that there are scions that are better terror troops than them?

Joking aside, I'm glad guard got some things that make their super heavys more viable. Hope to see more baneblades and friends on the table.

 catbarf wrote:

 amanita wrote:
In our group we've revised the codices for our rules, but for the Guard we added a light truck/jeep equivalent. With a transport capacity of 5 and light armor we figured it just made sense as an addendum to a mechanized force, but we've found it it to extremely useful in shifting small elite units around the table.

Isn't that pretty much a Centaur?

Indeed, that is quite similar but with wheels instead of tracks and as many options.

Still hoping that Scions will get something that will incentives using something other than plasma suicide squads.

More AP would have been way more useful on standard guardsmen.

Still liking the +6" range, seems to be a no brainier.

But I am excited to see what the full release looks like. Fingers crossed for a new psychic table (I know I'm in the minority on that one)

I think if the Guard were getting access to a new discipline in TGG, it'd've been referenced in the preview.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So Stormtroopers don't get the new build a bear faction traits that everyone seems to be getting now? A little inconsistent but ok.

Storm troopers aren't a faction. They're an IG Auxilia subfaction, like Adeptus Astra Telepathica. It's cool that you can customize them now.

Not quite. They are a sub-faction under the greater Astra Militarum faction umbrella, but they are removed as a different organization from the Militarum Auxillia and the Militarum Regimentos (most all of the regular guardsmen). The Militarum Tempestus organization has different in-game restrictions, and they are distinctively different in rules and lore from Auxillia, as they are specifically mentioned removed from the rules for Advisors and Auxillia units as well as they are not considered as a part of the Auxillia or as Advisors from other Imperial Organizations.

So I just reviewed the new psychic awakening IG content:



How many years has it been since 8th launched? In that time we have had the destruction of Cadia, 70% of the regiments getting their models discontinued, 1 new commissar model no one asked for (because they nerfed commissars into the ground) and this is supposed to get IG players excited to hop into the hobby again? Despite being responsible for 80-90% of all fighting for the Imperium we have basically been ignored the entirety of 8th edition. I do not understand GW's marketing here. They have a massive section of their customer base they are just flat out ignoring for years. Like I really really want to get invested into this hobby again but this doesn't do anything for me. IG NEEDS the old regiments redone in plastic as well as new ones. IG needs 10+ new special characters as they have killed off or deleted all of our old ones. IG needs to be at the forefront of all imperial content. Not just some backdrop for bolter porn. I guess I'll just go back to playing other hobbies & wait for 9th edition to drop?

 Commissar Benny wrote:
So I just reviewed the new psychic awakening IG content:



How many years has it been since 8th launched? In that time we have had the destruction of Cadia, 70% of the regiments getting their models discontinued, 1 new commissar model no one asked for (because they nerfed commissars into the ground) and this is supposed to get IG players excited to hop into the hobby again? Despite being responsible for 80-90% of all fighting for the Imperium we have basically been ignored the entirety of 8th edition. I do not understand GW's marketing here. They have a massive section of their customer base they are just flat out ignoring for years. Like I really really want to get invested into this hobby again but this doesn't do anything for me. IG NEEDS the old regiments redone in plastic as well as new ones. IG needs 10+ new special characters as they have killed off or deleted all of our old ones. IG needs to be at the forefront of all imperial content. Not just some backdrop for bolter porn. I guess I'll just go back to playing other hobbies & wait for 9th edition to drop?

IG has got 2 models(commissar Raine, Marbo), 3 if you include Eisenhorn as ally friends. And some more if you use BSF models as stand ins.
I do feel your pain, but we’re just on the down swing atm, for a long time we had a huge model collection, then there was FW support, I want to complain, but then I look at other factions(Necrons).

And Eldar are still waiting for their Aspect Warrior updates too.

If I were to hazard a guess, I think they will get their models updated first before we do.

 Commissar Benny wrote:
So I just reviewed the new psychic awakening IG content:



How many years has it been since 8th launched? In that time we have had the destruction of Cadia, 70% of the regiments getting their models discontinued, 1 new commissar model no one asked for (because they nerfed commissars into the ground) and this is supposed to get IG players excited to hop into the hobby again? Despite being responsible for 80-90% of all fighting for the Imperium we have basically been ignored the entirety of 8th edition. I do not understand GW's marketing here. They have a massive section of their customer base they are just flat out ignoring for years. Like I really really want to get invested into this hobby again but this doesn't do anything for me. IG NEEDS the old regiments redone in plastic as well as new ones. IG needs 10+ new special characters as they have killed off or deleted all of our old ones. IG needs to be at the forefront of all imperial content. Not just some backdrop for bolter porn. I guess I'll just go back to playing other hobbies & wait for 9th edition to drop?

I'm pretty sure its coming soon. Soon as in this year or next. The traitor guard models are a perfect lead-in to new kits.

As for the rules... they seem pretty solid.

Well, if we are wishing...

Cavalry for AdMech would seem to argue that there's a place for IG Cavalry. We've seen ratlings in Blackstone, and Squats in Necromunda. We've also seen all these 'repurposed' vehicles in the GSC, so:

Produce a plastic ratlings squad, available as a light/infliltrating/sniper unit.
Produce a plastic squat squad, available as a special weapons unit.
Produce a plastic cavalry unit.
Produce actual IG versions of the bikes and ATVs for IG to use.

Then, if you have to, roll out monopose Guardsmen in some Blackstone Fortress expansion and make IG players wait 6 months for a box of them. If you can do it for Traitors, do it for Loyalists.