‘Murder Hornets’ in the U.S.: The Rush to Stop the Asian Giant Hornet
Sightings of the Asian giant hornet have prompted fears that the vicious insect could establish itself in the United States and devastate bee populations.
By Mike Baker
Published May 2, 2020
BLAINE, Wash. — In his decades of beekeeping, Ted McFall had never seen anything like it. As he pulled his truck up to check on a group of hives near Custer, Wash., in November, he could spot from the window a mess of bee carcasses on the ground. As he looked closer, he saw a pile of dead members of the colony in front of a hive and more carnage inside — thousands and thousands of bees with their heads torn from their bodies and no sign of a culprit.
“I couldn’t wrap my head around what could have done that,” Mr. McFall said.
Only later did he come to suspect that the killer was what some researchers simply call the “murder hornet.”
With queens that can grow to two inches long, Asian giant hornets can use mandibles shaped like spiked shark fins to wipe out a honeybee hive in a matter of hours, decapitating the bees and flying away with the thoraxes to feed their young. For larger targets, the hornet’s potent venom and stinger — long enough to puncture a beekeeping suit — make for an excruciating combination that victims have likened to hot metal driving into their skin.
In Japan, the hornets kill up to 50 people a year. Now, for the first time, they have arrived in the United States.
Mr. McFall still is not certain that Asian giant hornets were responsible for the plunder of his hive. But two of the predatory insects were discovered last fall in the northwest corner of Washington State, a few miles north of his property — the first sightings in the United States.
Scientists have since embarked on a full-scale hunt for the hornets, worried that the invaders could decimate bee populations in the United States and establish such a deep presence that all hope for eradication could be lost.
“This is our window to keep it from establishing,” said Chris Looney, an entomologist at the Washington State Department of Agriculture. “If we can’t do it in the next couple of years, it probably can’t be done.”
On a cold morning in early December, two and a half miles to the north of Mr. McFall’s property, Jeff Kornelis stepped on his front porch with his terrier-mix dog. He looked down to a jarring sight: “It was the biggest hornet I’d ever seen.” The insect was dead, and after inspecting it, Mr. Kornelis had a hunch that it might be an Asian giant hornet. It did not make much sense, given his location in the world, but he had seen an episode of the YouTube personality Coyote Peterson getting a brutal sting from one of the hornets.
Beyond its size, the hornet has a distinctive look, with a cartoonishly fierce face featuring teardrop eyes like Spider-Man, orange and black stripes that extend down its body like a tiger, and broad, wispy wings like a small dragonfly.
Mr. Kornelis contacted the state, which came out to confirm that it was indeed an Asian giant hornet. Soon after, they learned that a local beekeeper in the area had also found one of the hornets.
Dr. Looney said it was immediately clear that the state faced a serious problem, but with only two insects in hand and winter coming on, it was nearly impossible to determine how much the hornet had already made itself at home.
Over the winter, state agriculture biologists and local beekeepers got to work, preparing for the coming season. Ruthie Danielsen, a beekeeper who has helped organize her peers to combat the hornet, unfurled a map across the hood of her vehicle, noting the places across Whatcom County where beekeepers have placed traps.
“Most people are scared to get stung by them,” Ms. Danielsen said. “We’re scared that they are going to totally destroy our hives.”
Adding to the uncertainty — and mystery — were some other discoveries of the Asian giant hornet across the border in Canada.
In November, a single hornet was seen in White Rock, British Columbia, perhaps 10 miles away from the discoveries in Washington State — likely too far for the hornets to be part of the same colony. Even earlier, there had been a hive discovered on Vancouver Island, across a strait that probably was too wide for a hornet to have crossed from the mainland.
Crews were able to track down the hive on Vancouver Island. Conrad Bérubé, a beekeeper and entomologist in the town of Nanaimo, was assigned to exterminate it.
He set out at night, when the hornets would be in their nest. He put on shorts and thick sweatpants, then his bee suit. He donned Kevlar braces on his ankles and wrists.
But as he approached the hive, he said, the rustling of the brush and the shine of his flashlight awakened the colony. Before he had a chance to douse the nest with carbon dioxide, he felt the first searing stabs in his leg — through the bee suit and underlying sweatpants.
“It was like having red-hot thumbtacks being driven into my flesh,” he said. He ended up getting stung at least seven times, some of the stings drawing blood.
Jun-ichi Takahashi, a researcher at Kyoto Sangyo University in Japan, said the species had earned the “murder hornet” nickname there because its aggressive group attacks can expose victims to doses of toxic venom equivalent to that of a venomous snake; a series of stings can be fatal.
The night he got stung, Mr. Bérubé still managed to eliminate the nest and collect samples, but the next day, his legs were aching, as if he had the flu. Of the thousands of times he has been stung in his lifetime of work, he said, the Asian giant hornet stings were the most painful.
After collecting the hornet in the Blaine area, state officials took off part of a leg and shipped it to an expert in Japan. A sample from the Nanaimo nest was sent as well.
A genetic examination, concluded over the past few weeks, determined that the nest in Nanaimo and the hornet near Blaine were not connected, said Telissa Wilson, a state pest biologist, meaning there had probably been at least two different introductions in the region.
Dr. Looney went out on a recent day in Blaine, carrying clear jugs that had been made into makeshift traps; typical wasp and bee traps available for purchase have holes too small for the Asian giant hornet. He filled some with orange juice mixed with rice wine, others had kefir mixed with water, and a third batch was filled with some experimental lures — all with the hope of catching a queen emerging to look for a place to build a nest.
He hung them from trees, geo-tagging each location with his phone.
In a region with extensive wooded habitats for hornets to establish homes, the task of finding and eliminating them is daunting. How to find dens that may be hidden underground? And where to look, given that one of the queens can fly many miles a day, at speeds of up to 20 miles per hour?
The miles of wooded landscapes and mild, wet climate of western Washington State makes for an ideal location for the hornets to spread.
In the coming months, Mr. Looney said, he and others plan to place hundreds more traps. State officials have mapped out the plan in a grid, starting in Blaine and moving outward.
The buzz of activity inside a nest of Asian giant hornets can keep the inside temperature up to 86 degrees, so the trackers are also exploring using thermal imaging to examine the forest floors. Later, they may also try other advanced tools that could track the signature hum the hornets make in flight.
If a hornet does get caught in a trap, Dr. Looney said, there are plans to possibly use radio-frequency identification tags to monitor where it goes — or simply attach a small streamer and then follow the hornet as it returns to its nest.
While most bees would be unable to fly with a disruptive marker attached, that is not the case with the Asian giant hornet. It is big enough to handle the extra load.
It looks like Japanese Honeybees have learned a crazy trick to neutralize a single hornet, despite being nearly defenseless against it. I wonder if we can somehow teach North American / European honeybees the same thing?
Anyway, sorry if I creeped any non-bug people out . Hopefully scientists can figure out a way to help our poor bees against this thing, or keep it from getting established on the continent (if that's still possible).
damn those mf big. there were bugs like that when I was in cyprus. the rumour was that if you got stung twice you got sent home as the anti venom was worse than the venom, but this may have been urban myth. safe to say i came close to testing the theory just to get home. the det sucked.
A nest of these established itself on top of my mother-in-law's air conditioning unit. (In Japan.) I very carefully saturated it with insect spray, and the problem was solved. Of course, the nest was right out in the open in an urban environment.
Kilkrazy wrote: A nest of these established itself on top of my mother-in-law's air conditioning unit. (In Japan.) I very carefully saturated it with insect spray, and the problem was solved. Of course, the nest was right out in the open in an urban environment.
That's my honest to God fear.
I'm afraid of 2 things, flying insect and clowns.
And these things are a thing out of my nightmare.
Kilkrazy wrote: A nest of these established itself on top of my mother-in-law's air conditioning unit. (In Japan.) I very carefully saturated it with insect spray, and the problem was solved. Of course, the nest was right out in the open in an urban environment.
That's my honest to God fear.
I'm afraid of 2 things, flying insect and clowns.
And these things are a thing out of my nightmare.
I dont really have any fears of flying stingers. bees over here will leave you alone if you leave them alone. we have tons around the hedge in my garden and my daughter runs around playing with no issues. I don't know if hornets are more aggressive.
UK native hornets are not aggressive and are quite passive in general toward people*. They make a very loud buzz and are big, but whilst not friendly they are not aggressive. UK Hornets are also endangered and you can't have them easily removed unless they pose a serious health risk. Sadly many pest controllers are not always all that aware of the regulations/worry about keeping to them.
I mean just look at this little innocent face - is that the face of terror and murder?
Spoiler:
UK wasps are much more aggressive in general than the hornets and much more likely to "go for you".
Kilkrazy wrote: A nest of these established itself on top of my mother-in-law's air conditioning unit. (In Japan.) I very carefully saturated it with insect spray, and the problem was solved. Of course, the nest was right out in the open in an urban environment.
That's my honest to God fear.
I'm afraid of 2 things, flying insect and clowns.
And these things are a thing out of my nightmare.
My partner had a pretty much all-consuming fear of stinging insects, and funnily enough a trip to france where those monstrous things were common cured them of their fear of all regular not-that bees.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What I want to know is, how the actual flying feth do you not realize you are taking one of those suckers back with you from overseas.
"Sir, I'm afraid we can't let you bring that hornet."
"What hornet? Oh, goodness, didn't even see him there on the entire back of my palm"
I read that there are two possibilities - that they were imported by mistake (I think they came to France in some pottery) or were brought intentionally as part of a remedy, then escaped (some ingredient for bodybuilding was mentioned, sorry I don't have the link atm!).
RiTides wrote: I read that there are two possibilities - that they were imported by mistake (I think they came to France in some pottery) or were brought intentionally as part of a remedy, then escaped (some ingredient for bodybuilding was mentioned, sorry I don't have the link atm!).
Cargo containers would seem more plausible culprit. There were some nasty insects(think ants) that got to Japan from foreign country via cargo containers. Caused bit of a concern trying to ensure they don't spread out to large once first ones were found.
I agree, although I worked with someone who was a big bug enthusiast and there is like a whole black market for crazy bugs . Not my thing, though... ugh.
I don’t mind bees. My mother in-lawesome keeps bees and I have a delicious source of Honey every year. They only bother you if you actively bother them.
Wasps and Hornets? Should die in a fire, and *do* whenever I can. I don’t have a fear of them, per se, but an unreasoning hatred of them. I worked at a kids camp, and of course some of the campers got to throwing stones at a nest in a tree... and wouldn’t you know it? They succeeded in pissing of the wasps.
Unsurprisingly, they had the good sense to all gather right beneath the nest. So when the swarm game out... good thing I’m a big guy and they were small enough I could grab two at a time because they were panic-flailing instead of getting the duck out of Fodge.
As councillors, we weren’t privy to the kids’ medical records, so once they were cleared from the area (5 of them) it was a rush to the nurse’s station. One kid stung much more than the others, so I wound up picking him up and running with him to the station. Thankfully none of them was allergic, and I got to teach our nurse (student) about treating stings with baking soda.
While I held a strong dislike for them before that, a hatred was born that day. It’s funny, because I mentally am aware that the kids “started it”, and kind of got what they deserved, but the Papa instincts kicked in like a literal murderous rage that would only be sated by their painful destruction. All rest of the day I was fuming about it.
So that night, I wrapped up tight, sprayed some ether up into their nest, and *whooopf!* BBQ wasps. Some came falling out, wings on fire and I stomped them on the ground. My only regret was that the fire burned so quickly. (Safety first, I had a hose to put the fire out before it spread to the rest of the tree.)
So my strong suggestion is to burn the bastards in their homes! I had a Yellow Jacket hive in the sophets of my garage a year or two ago, and I can’t express how frustrated I was that I couldn’t just set fire to that small section... my wife’s “good sense” won out. Just wound up spraying cans of hornet killer in there... and mounting “food bowls” at the entrances filled with Ant Poison... basicallly sugar coated glass that they eat, feed to their babies, and are utterly slaughtered by.
Greatbigtree - Yeah, I've finally learned to differentiate between "good" and "bad" stinging insects as an adult (was petrified of them all as a kid!). Bees I'm happy to have all around my yard, doing their bee things... first sign of a wasp nest and I go for the Raid
Alpharius - There are numerous holes in the idea, I'll grant you . But it is a learned behavior, not something they've physically adapted... maybe they'll learn it on their own eventually
RiTides wrote: I agree, although I worked with someone who was a big bug enthusiast and there is like a whole black market for crazy bugs . Not my thing, though... ugh.
I hope he wasn't importing deathshead moths and had a particular dislike of people pronouncing his name incorrectly...
queen_annes_revenge wrote: I dont really have any fears of flying stingers. bees over here will leave you alone if you leave them alone. we have tons around the hedge in my garden and my daughter runs around playing with no issues. I don't know if hornets are more aggressive.
Oh yes. All Hornets are very aggressive. And these hornets are small bird sized.
I dunno, anyone remember when Africanized Honeybees ('Killer Bees') were going to take over everywhere? I grew up hearing fear mongering about that (for [i]years[/i) and it never panned out. It makes me inherently dismissive of bee-related crises.
Stinging insects are one thing I despise, probably due to being stung on several occasions as a kid (worst time was when I stepped on a yellowjacket nest and caught multiple stings on my sandal-clad feet). These "murder hornets" need to be purged like the unholy Xenos filth they are. Good God they're gigantic too! Until I saw that picture I didn't have much of a sense of scale with those bastards!
NinthMusketeer wrote: I dunno, anyone remember when Africanized Honeybees ('Killer Bees') were going to take over everywhere? I grew up hearing fear mongering about that (for [i]years[/ii) and it never panned out. It makes me inherently dismissive of bee-related crises.
...?
Yes, we...remember?
And yes, these hornets are too big - flying, stinging insects shouldn’t be that size!
queen_annes_revenge wrote: I dont really have any fears of flying stingers. bees over here will leave you alone if you leave them alone. we have tons around the hedge in my garden and my daughter runs around playing with no issues. I don't know if hornets are more aggressive.
I find wasps a lot more erratic and aggressive regardless of your own behaviour and actions, bees on the other hand tend to be quite friendly and won't sting you unless you bother them. I actually like bees despite being afraid of wasps.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I dunno, anyone remember when Africanized Honeybees ('Killer Bees') were going to take over everywhere? I grew up hearing fear mongering about that (for [i]years[/ii) and it never panned out. It makes me inherently dismissive of bee-related crises.
I think the difference is that an Africanized Honeybee is still a Honeybee. Yeah, they're more aggressive, but they're not all that dangerous and are useful for the environment. Murder Hornets are legit deadly and actually attack and kill vital bee hives.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: I dont really have any fears of flying stingers. bees over here will leave you alone if you leave them alone. we have tons around the hedge in my garden and my daughter runs around playing with no issues. I don't know if hornets are more aggressive.
Oh yes. All Hornets are very aggressive. And these hornets are small bird sized.
Hornets are not necessarily aggressive, it varies by species. It's also remarkable how one man's "aggressive" is another's "justifiably righteous fury."
Also, I don't know if you were seriously sharing that image out of ignorance and genuinely believe it, or are on the wind up, but a queen of the species in question is about 2" and workers that you'll see outside of the hive a little over half that, the image is clearly doctored.
I wonder if we can somehow teach North American / European honeybees the same thing?
Not sure if serious...
Anyway, remember the "Killer Bees" thing from...the 70's?
Hopefully people will be able figure out a way to neutralize this threat before it destroys local bee populations though.
Remember it? I may not have been alive but I saw a movie about them and another movie about various super spider's. I think that movie was called arachnaphobia. I do very much remember a movie on killer bees. Some teenaged dudes got mad at em and destroyed one of their nests in the movie and it followed them back home and stung various people a good amount.
Invasive species coming from Africa have always been a problem. Still trying to get rid of those damn humans that spread everywhere ;P. If I recall some people are trying to change records in all seriousness. Something about the current oldest human remains being spotted in Latin america first I think. Learning new things is fun but scientists should be more humble sometimes. When they make errors they they should eventually acknowledge them. Human arrogance at its finest i suppose. Just like they were wrong about the spread of killer bees.
As someone that went through physics classes let me just say a lot of those dudes should just treat other professionals with respect. There's a bit of teasing between the various sciences and I think physics is at the top for being at the forefront of science and they definitely are arrogant and smug near engineers.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I dunno, anyone remember when Africanized Honeybees ('Killer Bees') were going to take over everywhere? I grew up hearing fear mongering about that (for [i]years[/ii) and it never panned out. It makes me inherently dismissive of bee-related crises.
I think the difference is that an Africanized Honeybee is still a Honeybee. Yeah, they're more aggressive, but they're not all that dangerous and are useful for the environment. Murder Hornets are legit deadly and actually attack and kill vital bee hives.
There was a video on twitter this morning of a hornet climbing into a bee nest and they absolutely messed it up.. it was brutal.
Actually that might be the video in the OP? I cant watch it on here.
Kilkrazy wrote: A nest of these established itself on top of my mother-in-law's air conditioning unit. (In Japan.) I very carefully saturated it with insect spray, and the problem was solved. Of course, the nest was right out in the open in an urban environment.
That's my honest to God fear.
I'm afraid of 2 things, flying insect and clowns.
And these things are a thing out of my nightmare.
“Seldom seen in the wild, the rare Hobocis Jestercus is seen here, prowling about the outer edges of a run-down steel town. While the Hobocis Jestercus’ preferred prey are young human children, occasionally one becomes desperate enough to attack a grown human poster, as we’re about to discover...”
* Music picks up pace, as the Hobo Clown begins chasing DakkaDakka posters at a flat-out sprint. *
We've had problems with asian hornets from 2004 onwards. My eastern region (I live in Champagne-Ardennes) isn't really plagued, but my southern friends are every summer extremly annoyed by this hornets. Unlike european hornets, that won't normally attack you unless you actually tease them, these hornets are known to attack for apparently no reason on occasion. Suffice to say, they already sport qite a lot of venom and can pierce through even some beekeeper suits... We won't ever get rid of these motherstompers, unfortunatly, and they will remain an issue ad vitam eternam...
They are also unbelievably effective bee killers...
But those hornets who made planetary fall in america are an even bigger species, capable of killing mice, with even more venom to spare, so they are equipped to present a real pain in the arse if they actually settle down in your country folks.
I am not a big fan of hornets of any kind but even local hornets here in Florida are a major pain. I use a live and let live policy with all creatures but I've had hornets attack me just for walking into my house and I had to take care of those nests.
If these turn into 3x the size hornets bringing one of the most painful stings in the animal kingdom I am going to have to go on offense. I will murder these hornets. In a way I kind of feel bad for them. Their size and their stinging power will lead to their annihilation. Really though they are just a really effective creature at finding their niche in an ecosystem.
I added spoiler tags to the video, as seeing the hornet kill that mouse is honestly quite scary and don't want people to see it accidentally who aren't ready for it.
I do not know how big the mouse was, but given that I'm not sure the image Grey Templar posted at the top of this page was actually doctored / edited. It's at least referenced in some articles talking about Asian Hornets... but it could be they've all mistaken it for genuine. Either way, yikes... godspeed to the folks trying to contain this out in Washington state
My grandfather worked in the docks when he was young, unloading timber from all over the world. One day they were unloading and one of these murder hornets came out at them. They ended up killing it, by trying to squeeze it into a matchbox for keeps.
Future War Cultist wrote: So I could be having a picnic, in Japan, and one of those big bastards could come at me? Never mind my food, they can have my car!
RiTides wrote: Oh my gosh Maréchal, I am sorry to hear that
I added spoiler tags to the video, as seeing the hornet kill that mouse is honestly quite scary and don't want people to see it accidentally who aren't ready for it.
I do not know how big the mouse was, but given that I'm not sure the image Grey Templar posted at the top of this page was actually doctored / edited. It's at least referenced in some articles talking about Asian Hornets... but it could be they've all mistaken it for genuine. Either way, yikes... godspeed to the folks trying to contain this out in Washington state
Thanks for putting under spoiler I actually totally forgot to do it myself!
But yeah since these orange monsters came to France they've been an acute issue... Ironically, vespa mandarinia arriving to France could maybe reduce the proliferation of asian hornets, I read that the killer hornets might hunt and feed on lesser sized hornets. But if that is the case, I don't want them moving on to Europe and wreck our normal europeans hornets as well....
By the way, if anyone of you knows french, I recommend watching Etienne LGF on Youtube, he's a beekepper and invasive insects remover who shares his knowledge and passion of the insects on a very enjoyable an instructive manner....
With all the coverage this is getting in the news, one positive side effect might be more of an awareness of invasive species... when I visited western Australia and New Zealand there were all sorts of warnings about this, but I've never noticed much in that regard when arriving in the US (from overseas) or Europe...
Kilkrazy wrote: A nest of these established itself on top of my mother-in-law's air conditioning unit. (In Japan.) I very carefully saturated it with insect spray, and the problem was solved. Of course, the nest was right out in the open in an urban environment.
That's my honest to God fear.
I'm afraid of 2 things, flying insect and clowns.
And these things are a thing out of my nightmare.
Clowns are next month...
I'll take that over wasps, like who finds clowns scary anyways? Just a bunch of people in goofy outfits and makeup, you got be a real wimp to find that gak scary.
Kilkrazy wrote: A nest of these established itself on top of my mother-in-law's air conditioning unit. (In Japan.) I very carefully saturated it with insect spray, and the problem was solved. Of course, the nest was right out in the open in an urban environment.
That's my honest to God fear.
I'm afraid of 2 things, flying insect and clowns.
And these things are a thing out of my nightmare.
Clowns are next month...
I'll take that over wasps, like who finds clowns scary anyways? Just a bunch of people in goofy outfits and makeup, you got be a real wimp to find that gak scary.
Right up until 20 of them get out of a car with mallets and start slapsticking their way towards you
I do not know how big the mouse was, but given that I'm not sure the image Grey Templar posted at the top of this page was actually doctored / edited. It's at least referenced in some articles talking about Asian Hornets...
The queens are considerably larger than workers. Queens can exceed 50 mm (2.0 in), while workers are between 35 and 40 mm (1.4 and 1.6 in). The reproductive anatomy is consistent between the two, but workers do not reproduce.
While that's from Wikipedia admittedly, it is cited, and those facts are specifically for the Asian Giant Hornet (aside from the simple Asian Hornet which is invasive in areas of Europe.)
The Asian Giant Hornet isn't even the largest wasp species, and the biggest don't really tally with that image either
The largest wasp is probably the so-called tarantula hawk species Pepsis pulszkyi, at up to 6.8 cm (2.7 in) long and 11.6 cm (4 1⁄2 in) wingspan, although many other Pepsis species approach a similar size. The giant scoliid wasp Megascolia procer may rival the tarantula hawks in weight, if not length and wingspan, and the Asian giant hornet Vespa mandarinia can reach a body length of up to 2 in.[14]
Literally nothing in the facts about this species that I can find endorses that image, unless it's been doctored, forced perspective, or misidentified.
Here's an image of a real giant hornet on somebody's hand, the scale looks dramatically different I'm sure you'd agree. This image is taken from Snopes, as a real image as opposed to another existing giant hornet image which has shown to be a hoax.
Kilkrazy wrote: A nest of these established itself on top of my mother-in-law's air conditioning unit. (In Japan.) I very carefully saturated it with insect spray, and the problem was solved. Of course, the nest was right out in the open in an urban environment.
That's my honest to God fear.
I'm afraid of 2 things, flying insect and clowns.
And these things are a thing out of my nightmare.
Clowns are next month...
I'll take that over wasps, like who finds clowns scary anyways? Just a bunch of people in goofy outfits and makeup, you got be a real wimp to find that gak scary.
Right up until 20 of them get out of a car with mallets and start slapsticking their way towards you
Oh come on we both know most clowns aren't murderers (so it's extremely unlikely of this occurring) and even your scenario is as equally funny as it would be scary, due the the absurdity of it all. Plus, the scariness has nothing to do with them being clowns but more the fact that a violent mob
Here is a video of a fool deliberately allowing one to sting him and describing the pain, if you're curious about that. I suppose it might also help with the scale issue.
Spoiler:
Makes my skin crawl. A nice, modestly sized red wasp got me in the arm while I was trimming the bushes (Central Florida) and my bicep was swollen like Popeye for weeks. I'm sure one of these suckers will be an instant trip to the emergency room if I run afoul of it.
Kilkrazy wrote: A nest of these established itself on top of my mother-in-law's air conditioning unit. (In Japan.) I very carefully saturated it with insect spray, and the problem was solved. Of course, the nest was right out in the open in an urban environment.
That's my honest to God fear.
I'm afraid of 2 things, flying insect and clowns.
And these things are a thing out of my nightmare.
Clowns are next month...
I'll take that over wasps, like who finds clowns scary anyways? Just a bunch of people in goofy outfits and makeup, you got be a real wimp to find that gak scary.
Right up until 20 of them get out of a car with mallets and start slapsticking their way towards you
Oh come on we both know most clowns aren't murderers (so it's extremely unlikely of this occurring) and even your scenario is as equally funny as it would be scary, due the the absurdity of it all. Plus, the scariness has nothing to do with them being clowns but more the fact that a violent mob
is chasing me.
While you cant pinpoint the cause of all phobias, some people believe that because of the makeup of clowns messing with the outline of many of the noticeable features of the human face, when children are exposed to this when they are developing the skill of recognizing faces, it can cause some wires to be crossed and develop a fear of clowns for their unnatural charactaristics
Gitzbitah wrote: Here is a video of a fool deliberately allowing one to sting him and describing the pain, if you're curious about that. I suppose it might also help with the scale issue.
Spoiler:
Makes my skin crawl. A nice, modestly sized red wasp got me in the arm while I was trimming the bushes (Central Florida) and my bicep was swollen like Popeye for weeks. I'm sure one of these suckers will be an instant trip to the emergency room if I run afoul of it.
Funnily enough, this good sir Etienne actually states that germanic wasps in europe can sting as painfully as european hornets and even asian hornets. As far as stinging goes, our little usual wasps in the old continent are not ridiculous at all... What's more, honeybees have a particularly allergenic venom... However none of them at least pose no threat to our local fauna!
Not that since they are so small, wasps are sometimes really hard to escape from in your beekeeper suit, as they sometimes succed in smipping into even the tiniest of space between gloves and suit for example!
Spoiler:
Tribute to our local flying stingers that swarm quite well too! (from 2:50 onwards)
I swore I wasn't going to watch any more videos on this, but I tried Maréchal's above (which is in French, so I was spared ) and then they were randomly mentioned in an unrelated video series I follow this morning
I do hope all the coverage and awareness might translate into something that aids the fight against these things getting established... but I don't know what that would take the form of. Maybe funding for an intensive effort to find and root out the nests of the few sightings so far? It seems like it would need to happen really soon to be effective, but obviously now is when people have a more immediate-consequence problem to worry about...
Probably only because they are actively raised by humans. Honey Bees are no longer wild insects that humans have been tricking into living in specific places. They are well and truly domesticated just like Cows, Chickens, Cats, etc...
Won't these murder hornets suffer greater predation from insect eating birds, bats, etc? Being large and colorful you'd think insect eaters would target them more.
I saw a video of a preying mantis calmly walk up to one and eat it's head, these things have predators.
Matt Swain wrote: Won't these murder hornets suffer greater predation from insect eating birds, bats, etc? Being large and colorful you'd think insect eaters would target them more.
I'm sure to an extent, but at the same time these guys can actually fight back.
Matt Swain wrote: Won't these murder hornets suffer greater predation from insect eating birds, bats, etc? Being large and colorful you'd think insect eaters would target them more.
The thing is non-native species can be shielded from predators because they are new. Predators within a stable ecosystem will often have specific food groups that they predate on. Provided those food groups remain in abundance, they've no need to experiment outside and go for new food sources.
Even if the hornets then become a potential food source, they have defences of their own. Habits, activity times, stinger, pincers, behaviour etc... These are all things that could mean that they could be of less threat from predators in a non-native environment. Indeed it might be that nothing wants or is capable of eating them. As a result they can expand with basically no predatory pressure.
Invasive species can be a huge problem like this. The other side of the coin is them being able to exploit resources in abundance. Perhaps they start devouring a food source that was previously untapped*; or they are capable of adapting to shifting food groups more readily. Combine that with a high breeding rate and you've a species that has limited predatory pressure; abundant food and rapid population expansion potential. All the three things that an invasive species needs to erupt into an ecosystem and cause immense damage to it.
It should also be noted that predators don't really control prey populations. Its a balance between prey and predator since, in a balanced stable ecosystem** the predator does not want to consume all its food source, or else it in turn will go extinct. As a result when food is abundant predators increase in population; when it dwindles predators decline in population. Each group affects the other. You can see this easily with hares and lynx where the lynx predate on the hares almost exclusively. So you can easily track rises in one population causing a reaction in the other - as hares go up lynx go up a few months later; as hares go down lynx also go down, again with some lag. The lynx isn't controlling the hares any more than the hares are controlling the lynx populations.
*or lost its consuming species
** accepting that most ecosystems are dynamic and almost always in a state of constant change.
I imagine the main concern is for wild bee populations, as it seems to me that a bit of wire mesh over the entrances to farm hives with holes too small for the murder hornets would manage that facet of the issue reasonably well.
These things are big, I wonder if one could be caught, have a radio beacon attached to it and tracked to it's nest. If they're threatening bee populations it might be worth a try.
RiTides wrote:I swore I wasn't going to watch any more videos on this, but I tried Maréchal's above (which is in French, so I was spared ) and then they were randomly mentioned in an unrelated video series I follow this morning
I do hope all the coverage and awareness might translate into something that aids the fight against these things getting established... but I don't know what that would take the form of. Maybe funding for an intensive effort to find and root out the nests of the few sightings so far? It seems like it would need to happen really soon to be effective, but obviously now is when people have a more immediate-consequence problem to worry about...
Matt Swain wrote:Won't these murder hornets suffer greater predation from insect eating birds, bats, etc? Being large and colorful you'd think insect eaters would target them more.
I saw a video of a preying mantis calmly walk up to one and eat it's head, these things have predators.
One of the best way to keep them at bay is to trap them in the early nesting season, so you catch the queens before they successfully found a their nests and push too far into the country. However the results might sill be mitigated at best...
These hornets do have predators in their native ecosystem, but not in ours yet, so that if they slip inside our fauna, few other animals will hunt them for food and not right aay, since these things were never supposed to be there in the first place. It'd need time to become commonplace. By this time, damage can already have been inflicted.
Ecosystems are tricky, most reports you get is that introducing or deleting a species almost always causes obvious changes in the ecosystem as all animals that compose it interinteract closely.
By the way, ie read too about tracking nests thanks to captured giant hornets, it is alleged that they are massive enough to carry tiny trackers on their backs.
What appears to be a fairly balanced view of the insect and the problem. I didn't realise, at least at the time of recording, that there had been no actual sightings of colonies and only 2 sightings of individual hornets.
If that's true, then this is the definition of making a hornet out a wasp nest.
Be warned, if you're triggered by over application of "air quotes" this video isn't for you.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: By the way, ie read too about tracking nests thanks to captured giant hornets, it is alleged that they are massive enough to carry tiny trackers on their backs.
Definitely not a biblical plague, as your video points out . And of even less concern for Canada, given the cold that will take them out. I think it would be a bigger concern moving south, but as the article above points out, there are larger threats to bee populations... unfortunately they're getting it from all sides
Apparently genetic testing also confirmed the sighting in Canada (10 miles north) was from a different source (both almost certainly from shipping containers, according to the article).
Still a chance to eradicate it, but it does lend a lot of urgency as they've confirmed the hornets are successfully reproducing (and surviving the winter) here...
There still is a chance, although it's hard to spot this yet few individuals or nests, it's like seeking a needle in a straw ball...
We'll see how it turns, but I wouldn't be too optimistic considering the vespa velunina spread through most France despite effort to counter it. However considering the immensity of the american territory compared to that of proud Gaule, it will certainly take long until it makes its way in other, further states.
I've discovered while roaming the internet that japanese beekeepers trap giant hornets with sticking traps laid on top of the bee hives! I've know idea about how effective it might be but still a fascinating sight in a way!
Well, one of the best ways to find a needle in a haystack is to burn the haystack...
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: I've discovered while roaming the internet that japanese beekeepers trap giant hornets with sticking traps laid on top of the bee hives! I've know idea about how effective it might bee but still a fascinating sight in a way!
Unknowingly dug into a yellowjacket nest once. That was fun.
Picked up a shovelful of mulch and dirt, turned around to throw it in the wheelbarrow...and sensed something was wrong. Turned around as if doing a slow motion WTF to see a yellowjacket tornado right in front of me. I dug straight into and exposed a nest. Yay me!
I ran. And then ran some more. Those things follow you farther than honeybees and such. Really aggressive suckers. Only got one sting (woo!), although there were more stinging the hell out of my jacket. They can sting multiple times, so they just let loose on you.
After regrouping and gathering a few cans of spray (stuff that linemen use that shoots 15-20 feet and instant kills), they were no more. Better living through chemistry.
Shipping containers (like waste dump water from large ships) have spread a lot of bad things around the globe. The habitat of the brown recluse, for example, includes "places near a place that uses shipping containers" pretty much worldwide, but worst in the USA (since historically, we bring crap here to buy, from most other places, rather than exporting it.) Similar are the parasites currently in the pacific salmon population, its something that got dumped out when ships from the japan area flushed their ballast water to take on new cargo without losing balance.
Sadly, its all way too late for controlling MOST of these issues -- its not like we haven't been shipping shipping stuff since about WW2, worldwide, and back. Its pretty amazing that's as bad an outcome as we got so far -- a few beetles eating all the forests of canada to death, a few pythons to fight the alligators in the 'Glade, a few africanized honeybees to fight the fire ants for territory, a few murder hornets to kill the angry african honeybees, and ... wow, ok, so its a lot of stuff, and a few fish. The coolest being the snakehead fish (in viet culture a high delicacy worth eating) in the chesapeake watershed, and the wierdest being the one that jumps out of the water straight up when startled.
Sadly, its all way too late for controlling MOST of these issues -- its not like we haven't been shipping shipping stuff since about WW2, !
You're a bit late by WW2. Whilst we have sped things up to an insane degree (at our fastest you could go round the world in 3 days and that included Concord stopping more than once I believe); which certainly helps the chances of things migrating - we've been doing it accidentally and deliberately for thousands of years.
Heck the classic English Countryside is often depicted with pheasants, chickens and rabbits and apple orchards - not a single one of which are native to the UK at all. It's believed Romans brought many of them over. Same for many crop species and other things. We've been moving stuff around for a very very long time. It's just that today we are far more aware of the potential devastation that they can cause.
Actually, I was a smidge early -- I was saying simply the modern shipping container itself was invented around WW2. I remembered only that it was an "immediate post ww2" item in a vague sense, but on checking, it was started by a smart guy named Maclean in 1956. Those containerized boxes DEEPLY changed the speed of ship on and off lading, and thus, greatly increased the load and unload of LOTS.
Wow. So, my browser stayed open in the background, and I have to admit, this is probably the first big fishing contest I approve of, especially when you consider this invasive species has no limit, and is very edible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQYJd-7iQb8 ...
Odd, ain't it, how sometimes a problem becomes an opportunity -- consider that we have a ready source of nitrogen for fertilizer, or food for people, bingo.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Well, one of the best ways to find a needle in a haystack is to burn the haystack...
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote: I've discovered while roaming the internet that japanese beekeepers trap giant hornets with sticking traps laid on top of the bee hives! I've know idea about how effective it might bee but still a fascinating sight in a way!
Fixed.
Exalted just because of the pun
Although the idea of exterminatus in the state of Washington is a funny thought to an extend... Better ask the inhabitants if they want to be the first registered live exterminatus before anything!
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gorgon wrote: Unknowingly dug into a yellowjacket nest once. That was fun.
Picked up a shovelful of mulch and dirt, turned around to throw it in the wheelbarrow...and sensed something was wrong. Turned around as if doing a slow motion WTF to see a yellowjacket tornado right in front of me. I dug straight into and exposed a nest. Yay me!
I ran. And then ran some more. Those things follow you farther than honeybees and such. Really aggressive suckers. Only got one sting (woo!), although there were more stinging the hell out of my jacket. They can sting multiple times, so they just let loose on you.
After regrouping and gathering a few cans of spray (stuff that linemen use that shoots 15-20 feet and instant kills), they were no more. Better living through chemistry.
By yellowjackets do you mean european hornets or tinier wasps? Otherwise I didn't know that hornets try to catch people that far away.
Specifically it refers to the species that are yellow and black in color. Usually ground dwelling and aggressive. Some of the species are european in origin, having established themselves in NA.
Thanks for the links, yeah wasps are aggressuve and will pursue you over to, in the worst instances, a kilometer. Once my mother rode the lawnmawer over a wasp nest, she ran into our house but a few found their way through an open window nearby to sting her... Really aggressive buggers indeed...
As someone who's lived among these little hell-fethers for a while, I thought I'd share some info!
IDK what wasps/yellowjackets are like in the States (I reckon the further south you are, the meaner the local fauna is anyway, if you're a Texan, these might not come as too much of a surprise), but the wasps we have in Europe are NOTHING compared to these hornets. I used to have wasps accidentally fly into my room when I was a teenager all the time. In the end, I just used to lift them out bare-handed. Their reputation as mean is really not well-deserved in my opinion. They're fast, yeah, and if you rile them, they get a bit fighty, and don't just die like bees, but if you're gentle, and leave them be, mostly they don't have time for humans, unless you're having a picnic or something, and then, like it's annoying, but outdoors is their space too. Share some of that cornetto you cheap bastard.
Asian Hornets on the other hand?
Big.
I've seen 'em as long as my middle finger, easily. They are significantly larger than any invertebrate I've ever seen in Europe. I don't know any other invertebrate that could tangle with them, either. They're fast, and they're pretty aggressive. If you're close to one, you'll probably know, because it'll buzz you. They fly in at you low and close, and they're pretty loud. They aren't like bugs in my country, that only hurt you if you've pissed them off, or are only after a sip of your blood. Hornets will actively pursue you even if you've not bothered them anymore than just being unfortunate enough to come within a few meters of them. On top of that, as you all seem aware, they can kill. Usually, it'll take a few stings, but you can always be unlucky. There can always be a second hornet you haven't seen. In Korea, every year for Chuseok, people visit their relatives' graves, which are more often than not, up in the wooded mountains. Unfortunately, this coincides with the time of year hornets get sleepy and start nesting for the winter. You always here a few stories around this time of older women accidentally disturbing a nest, or even a single hornet and getting killed.
TLDR; Hornets are really fething mean, and a literal world apart from the cute lil bugs you have in Europe, do not tangle with them, avoid at all costs they wil wreck your gak.
Would you say that the smaller sized, regular asian hornet is as well more aggressive than its european counterpart? In France there is an hypothesis that they also became that aggressive because of the lack of actual predators, or that they may just be a fighty specie, anyhow apart from disturbing the local fauna they are also much mire aggressive than "cute" european hornets.
posermcbogus wrote: . In Korea, every year for Chuseok, people visit their relatives' graves, which are more often than not, up in the wooded mountains. Unfortunately, this coincides with the time of year hornets get sleepy and start nesting for the winter. You always here a few stories around this time of older women accidentally disturbing a nest, or even a single hornet and getting killed.
IME, yellowjackets get extra aggressive in the fall when the weather starts to turn cold. They can act a lot like a drunk guy at a bar looking for a fight. Which sounds funny, but it's really the best way to describe it. They get in your face, follow you around, won't leave you alone...not necessarily stinging you at first, but more like daring you to do something. Might be the same for your variety there.
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NinthMusketeer wrote: Moral of the story: Gorgon had 12" flamer weapons before Admech
With the bionic legs of a Ruststalker!
"Gorgon has whee-ls! Clap-clap-clapclap-clap! Gorgon has whee-ls!"
posermcbogus wrote: . In Korea, every year for Chuseok, people visit their relatives' graves, which are more often than not, up in the wooded mountains. Unfortunately, this coincides with the time of year hornets get sleepy and start nesting for the winter. You always here a few stories around this time of older women accidentally disturbing a nest, or even a single hornet and getting killed.
IME, yellowjackets get extra aggressive in the fall when the weather starts to turn cold. They can act a lot like a drunk guy at a bar looking for a fight. Which sounds funny, but it's really the best way to describe it. They get in your face, follow you around, won't leave you alone...not necessarily stinging you at first, but more like daring you to do something. Might be the same for your variety there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NinthMusketeer wrote: Moral of the story: Gorgon had 12" flamer weapons before Admech
With the bionic legs of a Ruststalker!
"Gorgon has whee-ls! Clap-clap-clapclap-clap! Gorgon has whee-ls!"
That's funny, I'd swear I've always seen wasp populations go very quiet from roughly mid-september onwards. Can't seem to remeber when their queens are supposed to go into hibernation though.
Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:Big thanks for sharing your experience man!
Would you say that the smaller sized, regular asian hornet is as well more aggressive than its european counterpart? In France there is an hypothesis that they also became that aggressive because of the lack of actual predators, or that they may just be a fighty specie, anyhow apart from disturbing the local fauna they are also much mire aggressive than "cute" european hornets.
Errm, can't say I've really encountered smaller hornets than the big ones out here, tbh. There are plenty of predators for the smaller version - we get these big green spiders "Trichonephila clavata" says wikipedia, that are kind of exciting.
Generally, because most of Japan gets quite tropical is summer, it provides a climate that seems suitable for sustaining much larger insects. I'd imagine with the so-called Murder Hornets, the aggression is probably something inherent - they're probably the insect equivalent of an apex predator, and on top of that, any potential predators would be put off by how aggressive they are. The only thing in Japan I can think of that might mess with a hornet is a bear, and Japanese bears just kind of lurk in the forest and are scared of people as far as I know. I think they'd leave hornets well alone.
gorgon wrote:
posermcbogus wrote: . In Korea, every year for Chuseok, people visit their relatives' graves, which are more often than not, up in the wooded mountains. Unfortunately, this coincides with the time of year hornets get sleepy and start nesting for the winter. You always here a few stories around this time of older women accidentally disturbing a nest, or even a single hornet and getting killed.
IME, yellowjackets get extra aggressive in the fall when the weather starts to turn cold. They can act a lot like a drunk guy at a bar looking for a fight. Which sounds funny, but it's really the best way to describe it. They get in your face, follow you around, won't leave you alone...not necessarily stinging you at first, but more like daring you to do something. Might be the same for your variety there.
Fun fact! Most of the wasps in the UK doing that, around that time of year actually are drunk - their foraging works in patterns depending on the time of year. I only really half-remember this from my grandpa who keeps bees, but when the hive is breeding, they'll usually go for meat and other protein-rich stuff, and then in the fall they'll look for sugars, like fallen fruit. Fallen fruit often ferments, and thus, you get...
...drunk wasps. Where I grew up, it usually means they get sleepy, or too lazy to fly, and chill out on the ground.
I think the season certainly plays a part in how aggressive Murder Hornets will be - in the autumn, they're probably much closer to their nests, preparing for the often very cold and snowy Japanese winter, but they may also be agitated and stressed due to the temperature becoming lower, making them much more fight-or-flight-y. They are also just year round beligerant little bastards, but perhaps they are deliberately more concertedly killy in the fall.
Never considered fermented fruits actually causing wasps to get drunk, that's hilarious. i'd day that in north east France as far as I remember act lazy rather than aggressive.
The giant hornets are litterally what you call a super predator (the expression at least works in french), that's to say they're a the top of the chain, attacking all but being prey to nobody or almost. In the case of the USA, litteraly nobody since the local fauna only discovers them...
My encounter was awhile ago and I can't quite remember, but knowing me I was probably trashtalking them as I shot chemical death into their home.
YOU LIKE THAT? YEAH? THAT'S CALLED CHEMICALS, BABY. WE INVENTED IT! HUMAN BEINGS! INVENTED IT! US! WE CAN WRECK THIS WHOLE PLANET, SO WHAT MAKES YOU THINK WE WON'T WRECK YOU!
Shipping containers (like waste dump water from large ships) have spread a lot of bad things around the globe. The habitat of the brown recluse, for example, includes "places near a place that uses shipping containers" pretty much worldwide, but worst in the USA (since historically, we bring crap here to buy, from most other places, rather than exporting it.)
Similar are the parasites currently in the pacific salmon population, its something that got dumped out when ships from the japan area flushed their ballast water to take on new cargo without losing balance.
Sadly, its all way too late for controlling MOST of these issues -- its not like we haven't been shipping shipping stuff since about WW2, worldwide, and back. Its pretty amazing that's as bad an outcome as we got so far -- a few beetles eating all the forests of canada to death, a few pythons to fight the alligators in the 'Glade, a few africanized honeybees to fight the fire ants for territory, a few murder hornets to kill the angry african honeybees, and ... wow, ok, so its a lot of stuff, and a few fish. The coolest being the snakehead fish (in viet culture a high delicacy worth eating) in the chesapeake watershed, and the wierdest being the one that jumps out of the water straight up when startled.
Sadly, its all way too late for controlling MOST of these issues -- its not like we haven't been shipping shipping stuff since about WW2, !
You're a bit late by WW2. Whilst we have sped things up to an insane degree (at our fastest you could go round the world in 3 days and that included Concord stopping more than once I believe); which certainly helps the chances of things migrating - we've been doing it accidentally and deliberately for thousands of years.
Heck the classic English Countryside is often depicted with pheasants, chickens and rabbits and apple orchards - not a single one of which are native to the UK at all. It's believed Romans brought many of them over. Same for many crop species and other things. We've been moving stuff around for a very very long time. It's just that today we are far more aware of the potential devastation that they can cause.
At the same time, killer bees, gypsy moths and kudzu were supposed to have destroyed civilization by now if you'd listened to anything they said back in the '70s.
It's always SOMETHING. Right now in our area, it's spotted lanternfly.
Spoiler:
And it's a problem for sure. Very destructive to fruit trees and grape vines, and will attack certain maples and other varieties. Spent an afternoon over the winter scraping egg masses off my trees...had to have been at least 500-600 eggs in total.
If you don't know about spotted lanternfly, there's a chance you may soon if you're in the US. They spread very quickly because they love to hitch rides on vehicles. IIRC, they spread through the entire Korean peninsula three years after being introduced. So far the US is doing a better job, but I don't think they can truly be contained.
But you know...stink bugs were a big issue 5-10 years ago, and those populations are now much more under control.
Something can only overpopulate so much before something else finds great success in eating it--a problem that has vexed farmers since the inception of agriculture.
On a similar note, inevitable doom has loomed right around the corner for as long as we have records for. My guess is some quirk of human psychology creates that idea over and over. Sensationalization of manageable threats into all-consuming ones is hardly new and the strategy remains sorting truth from exaggeration.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Something can only overpopulate so much before something else finds great success in eating it--a problem that has vexed farmers since the inception of agriculture.
On a similar note, inevitable doom has loomed right around the corner for as long as we have records for. My guess is some quirk of human psychology creates that idea over and over. Sensationalization of manageable threats into all-consuming ones is hardly new and the strategy remains sorting truth from exaggeration.
- a lot of threats are potentially existential ones or at least incredibly significant until human ingenuity is directed at them and someone comes up with something, but there's no guarantee of that happening continuously every time a new threat emerges.
- unless you promote a threat as a certain level of serious the required resources (both fiscal and human) don't get thrown at it
Oh, that's true. The local news did a good job spreading the word that if you see a lanternfly...kill it. I wish more people would do something about egg masses on their trees, however. I cleaned mine pretty well, but I'm sure all my neighbors didn't. And while they're pretty stationary as nymphs, they hop around a lot as adults.
With stink bugs, I remember reading that mantises had learned to prey on them. Not sure how big of a dent that made -- I suspect chemical warfare was what really did the trick. But every bit that nature does helps.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Something can only overpopulate so much before something else finds great success in eating it--a problem that has vexed farmers since the inception of agriculture.
On a similar note, inevitable doom has loomed right around the corner for as long as we have records for. My guess is some quirk of human psychology creates that idea over and over. Sensationalization of manageable threats into all-consuming ones is hardly new and the strategy remains sorting truth from exaggeration.
- a lot of threats are potentially existential ones or at least incredibly significant until human ingenuity is directed at them and someone comes up with something, but there's no guarantee of that happening continuously every time a new threat emerges.
- unless you promote a threat as a certain level of serious the required resources (both fiscal and human) don't get thrown at it
Yeah, I know. But there is a whole line of discussion to be had of why a basic statement of facts can be insufficient, and I am of the opinion that sensationalizing is just placating the dragon. As for human ingenuity, there have been an untold number of would-be-apocalyptic happenings that haven't panned out and I just can't muster enough optimism to see that changing.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Something can only overpopulate so much before something else finds great success in eating it--a problem that has vexed farmers since the inception of agriculture.
On a similar note, inevitable doom has loomed right around the corner for as long as we have records for. My guess is some quirk of human psychology creates that idea over and over. Sensationalization of manageable threats into all-consuming ones is hardly new and the strategy remains sorting truth from exaggeration.
- a lot of threats are potentially existential ones or at least incredibly significant until human ingenuity is directed at them and someone comes up with something, but there's no guarantee of that happening continuously every time a new threat emerges.
- unless you promote a threat as a certain level of serious the required resources (both fiscal and human) don't get thrown at it
Yeah, I know. But there is a whole line of discussion to be had of why a basic statement of facts can be insufficient, and I am of the opinion that sensationalizing is just placating the dragon. As for human ingenuity, there have been an untold number of would-be-apocalyptic happenings that haven't panned out and I just can't muster enough optimism to see that changing.
Well, in the particular instances of the giant hornets, I'd say it's only potentially an apocaliptically sized thorn in the side for beekeepers who will have to watch over their bees a lot. Others might be distrubed by them, but they won't potentially utterly ruin the job you do for a living.
Apparently all 85 hornets survived being vacuumed out of the nest, and now that they were able to cut the tree apart they captured two live queens, too. Videos are on the Washington State Department of Agriculture facebook page:
What are they planning to do with the live hornets?
Most likely terminate them and then study them to see if there has been any hybridisation going on. They might also use them for chemical tests to see if they can devise a quick and easy chemical means to destroy a nest; perhaps without harming other local flora and fauna.
If you listen really close to the videos you can hear me screaming from about 30 miles away. A few memorable quotes: "NOPE! FETH THAT AND FETH THEM!" and "WHY THE HELL ARENT YOU BURNING THEM! BURN THEM ALL ALIVE!"
I used to joke that if those things ever show up here I was moving. Here they are. I am going to raise the bar a bit, though, and say that Ill give it until I see one in person. Feth wasps. Feth hornets. They can all be cleansed with the holy fire.
That said, looks like they're doing an extremely good job trying to contain this. Hopefully they can keep it up! The threat to most of the country seems very low due to climate differences, but it would be so much better if they could keep this invasive species from getting a foothold at all.
RiTides wrote: Are you really only 30 miles away!? Holy cow
That said, looks like they're doing an extremely good job trying to contain this. Hopefully they can keep it up! The threat to most of the country seems very low due to climate differences, but it would be so much better if they could keep this invasive species from getting a foothold at all.
Somewhere in that neck of the woods. I live across the sound in Kitsap County. I have a cold hatred for wasps. If you are ever in Washington State and see a 6'4" 300 lb bearded dude running and screaming like he's being chased by the T-Rex in Jurassic Park, its probably me, running from a wasp.
Dysartes wrote: So, that nest in Washington State? Nearly 200 queens found in the next, according to the BBC, and three more found in the area around the nest.
A week or two later, and that might've been a real fustercluck.
And while the local Department of Agriculture is committed to a war on the murder hornet, they reckon there are additional nests in the area.
Time to start running, IronWarLeg...
Yeah, I saw that... Anyone know of any bulk wasp spray Black Friday deals?
Its bad enough my neighbor just found a Bald Faced hornet nest that's the size of a beach ball in her back yard, and now there is the possibility that bigger flying death machines are spreading too
Dysartes wrote: So, that nest in Washington State? Nearly 200 queens found in the next, according to the BBC, and three more found in the area around the nest.
A week or two later, and that might've been a real fustercluck.
And while the local Department of Agriculture is committed to a war on the murder hornet, they reckon there are additional nests in the area.
Time to start running, IronWarLeg...
Yeah, I saw that... Anyone know of any bulk wasp spray Black Friday deals?
Its bad enough my neighbor just found a Bald Faced hornet nest that's the size of a beach ball in her back yard, and now there is the possibility that bigger flying death machines are spreading too
Yeah, this whole thing kinda reminded me of the end of "them!", where they managed to burn the ant nest under L.A. before the queens and their consorts escaped.
But hey, let's not lose our heads over these. They're not covid virii. You can see them, you may be able to hear them coming depending on how noisy they are in flight. You can dodge them, even backhand them if you swing fast enough, crush them with a large flyswatter or a rolled up newspaper, one blast of wasp spray can drop them so you can stomp on them, etc.
Covid is far worse than these, and harder to avoid and contain.
Dunno if it was a Murder Hornet or not...but earlier this year, there was a heck of a racket coming from the rolled up blind in my front room/home office.
Figuring some wee beastie had got itself trapped, I unrolled it.....and my word whatever it was the biggest Wasp looking bugger I ever did see.
Sadly, by the time I’d armed myself with the Dyson*, it had nicked off out the window.
Given I only saw it for a few brief seconds, most of which were spent thinking “what the bloody hell is that” I can’t be sure, but I’d swear it was a good two or so inches long.
I mean, I’ve squelched Queen Wasps before, and they had nowt on this brute!
*plan was vacuum it up, then vacuum up some wasp spray. Think the execution of Flash Gordon, but done by an idiot.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Dunno if it was a Murder Hornet or not...but earlier this year, there was a heck of a racket coming from the rolled up blind in my front room/home office.
Figuring some wee beastie had got itself trapped, I unrolled it.....and my word whatever it was the biggest Wasp looking bugger I ever did see.
Sadly, by the time I’d armed myself with the Dyson*, it had nicked off out the window.
Given I only saw it for a few brief seconds, most of which were spent thinking “what the bloody hell is that” I can’t be sure, but I’d swear it was a good two or so inches long.
I mean, I’ve squelched Queen Wasps before, and they had nowt on this brute!
*plan was vacuum it up, then vacuum up some wasp spray. Think the execution of Flash Gordon, but done by an idiot.
Cicada Killers are also pretty huge and horrifying looking, but they’re actually nearly harmless to people. Rarely attack people, generally only in self defense if you grab or entangle them, and even then the female’s venom is weak, and the male doesn’t even have an actual stinger. Meanwhile they provide the invaluable service of reducing the volume of screaming trees.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Dunno if it was a Murder Hornet or not...but earlier this year, there was a heck of a racket coming from the rolled up blind in my front room/home office.
Figuring some wee beastie had got itself trapped, I unrolled it.....and my word whatever it was the biggest Wasp looking bugger I ever did see.
Sadly, by the time I’d armed myself with the Dyson*, it had nicked off out the window.
Given I only saw it for a few brief seconds, most of which were spent thinking “what the bloody hell is that” I can’t be sure, but I’d swear it was a good two or so inches long.
I mean, I’ve squelched Queen Wasps before, and they had nowt on this brute!
*plan was vacuum it up, then vacuum up some wasp spray. Think the execution of Flash Gordon, but done by an idiot.
Cicada killer, maybe?
Not in the U.K. they wouldn’t be.
Again, possible false memory, but I’d swear it’s abdomen was a dark brown, like a chestnut? Definitely not a brighter colour or yellow.
Quick Google shows both the European and Asian Hornet Queen being potential, based on (again, likely flawed) recollections, mostly based on their sheer size.
AduroT wrote: Cicada Killers are also pretty huge and horrifying looking, but they’re actually nearly harmless to people. Rarely attack people, generally only in self defense if you grab or entangle them, and even then the female’s venom is weak, and the male doesn’t even have an actual stinger. Meanwhile they provide the invaluable service of reducing the volume of screaming trees.
Yeah, they're pussycats. Can leave little mounds in your lawn, however.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Dunno if it was a Murder Hornet or not...but earlier this year, there was a heck of a racket coming from the rolled up blind in my front room/home office.
Figuring some wee beastie had got itself trapped, I unrolled it.....and my word whatever it was the biggest Wasp looking bugger I ever did see.
Sadly, by the time I’d armed myself with the Dyson*, it had nicked off out the window.
Given I only saw it for a few brief seconds, most of which were spent thinking “what the bloody hell is that” I can’t be sure, but I’d swear it was a good two or so inches long.
I mean, I’ve squelched Queen Wasps before, and they had nowt on this brute!
*plan was vacuum it up, then vacuum up some wasp spray. Think the execution of Flash Gordon, but done by an idiot.
Cicada killer, maybe?
Not in the U.K. they wouldn’t be.
Again, possible false memory, but I’d swear it’s abdomen was a dark brown, like a chestnut? Definitely not a brighter colour or yellow.
Quick Google shows both the European and Asian Hornet Queen being potential, based on (again, likely flawed) recollections, mostly based on their sheer size.
Huge, loud and brown? Was it a "maybug" which is a type of Cockchafer, of which there are species that do appear outside of may.
Argive wrote: I like how they levelled up to "murder hornet".
Boy am i sure there aint none here.
But what do the natives do about them?
They eat them. Which is where most of the deaths occur apparently, while trying to harvest them. Consequently, while formidable, their reputation is magnified.
Worth noting that even allowing for people trying to harvest them, they only kill around 50 people a year, notably fewer than many animals that most people would consider largely harmless. Cows kill 3 people a year in the UK alone, with more "potentially fatal" incidents than that. A former colleague's mum got so badly mauled by cows she was put into a coma and nearly didn't make it.
TBF, as you touched on, any animal that humans regularly try to herd/harvest in massive numbers will probably have injuries associated. That extends to other humans, for that matter. Just how many people every year are injured by stampeding humans!?
Perhaps manslaughter bees are not the true threat.
Again, possible false memory, but I’d swear it’s abdomen was a dark brown, like a chestnut? Definitely not a brighter colour or yellow.
Quick Google shows both the European and Asian Hornet Queen being potential, based on (again, likely flawed) recollections, mostly based on their sheer size.
Huge, loud and brown? Was it a "maybug" which is a type of Cockchafer, of which there are species that do appear outside of may.
Again, possible false memory, but I’d swear it’s abdomen was a dark brown, like a chestnut? Definitely not a brighter colour or yellow.
Quick Google shows both the European and Asian Hornet Queen being potential, based on (again, likely flawed) recollections, mostly based on their sheer size.
Huge, loud and brown? Was it a "maybug" which is a type of Cockchafer, of which there are species that do appear outside of may.
That looks like what would be called a scarab in egypt.
My parents came across these in France near Toulouse at the end of the summer. They spotted a large barel size nest about 20 feet up a tree while on holiday. They advised the locals and they sent for the expert.
A local boy about 75 years old turned up with a ladder and metal diving suit. He put on the suit and casually climbed the ladder and sprayed the nest with liquid nitrogen.
This was then followed by the locals drinking wine and having a meal for about 2 hours.
A younger chap then turned up and used a shotgun to destroy the nest.
Apparently they deal with about 2-3 nests a day but nobody seems worried about them.
They're Asian Hornets, Vespa Velutina, not Asian Giant Hornets Vespa Mandarinia.
We have them in the UK too, albeit in smaller numbers so far. They pose a similar ecological threat but are less dangerous to people on balance. I think there's a certain acceptance on continental Europe that they've got a foothold now, but thanks to the channel UK agencies are still keeping a lid on things.
Heh heh, i can imagine this invasive species meeting some native american life forms, like the Hickus redneckus, and coming out on the losing end.
I mean, when they had that nest found the government sent in that team of experts in mighty morphin' power rangers hazmat suits to deal with it. Cost tens thousands of dollars and a vast effort to get rid of one nest.
Good ol' Bubba sees something like that and he just loads up ol' Lucile, his 12 gauge, with birdshot, puts on some thick leather clothes and his hip waders, maybe gets his buddies Zeke and Cooter to come along, goes up to it and at about 30 feet they empty their tubes into the nest. Problem solved. Total cost: About 10$ worth of shotgun shells.
Yes, some of the drones may survive, maybe weren't in the nest, but unless a fertilized queen has emerged from it before ol' Bubba and his buddies deals with it the infestation has ceased to spread from that point.
Those good ol' boys out in the rural areas, they're used to dealing with gak on their own, these things will just be another problem to solve as quickly and economically as possible. We city slickers may make fun on them, but they're tough, they rely on themselves and their friends, and they get gak done when it needs done. They may not be big on "book learnin'" but they have their own kind of simple, practical smarts.
None of which protects native honey bees and their critical role in the ecology of the area, which is the actual risk.
Equally, the majority of deaths from anything other than anaphylaxis in their native range occur precisely when people go after the nests. One assumes they're not doing that with t shirt, shorts, a pointy stick and a positive attitude.
So, assuming your point is something other than to be patronising to rural communities it's almost certainly wrong anyway.
A nest can only create more nests if queens breed new queens which mature and leave. Destroy the nest, kill the queen and the surviving drones are a nuisance at worst.
A few 12 gauge rounds of birdshot thru the center of mass is quite likely going to kill the queen, the eggs and destroy the nest.
If a nest is destroyed before a new queen martures and leaves then you've reduced further spread. Reduce it enough, kill enough nests, be it with gas of birdshot, and the problem is solved.
Make sure the rural types know about these and the trouble they can cause and they'll be looking out for them, and dealing with them. Ask nice and they might even report the nests they destroy to aid in tracking. These people may have a bad image but seriously, they are a resource that can be used here. Reach out to them with respect, offer some bounties on these nests and i think they'll go a good way to stopping these. Yes, even with shotguns,because a shotgun blast to a nest is pretty likely to kill the immobile queen and hopefully her eggs too.
A nest can only create more nests if queens breed new queens which mature and leave. Destroy the nest, kill the queen and the surviving drones are a nuisance at worst.
A few 12 gauge rounds of birdshot thru the center of mass is quite likely going to kill the queen, the eggs and destroy the nest.
If a nest is destroyed before a new queen martures and leaves then you've reduced further spread. Reduce it enough, kill enough nests, be it with gas of birdshot, and the problem is solved.
Make sure the rural types know about these and the trouble they can cause and they'll be looking out for them, and dealing with them. Ask nice and they might even report the nests they destroy to aid in tracking. These people may have a bad image but seriously, they are a resource that can be used here. Reach out to them with respect, offer some bounties on these nests and i think they'll go a good way to stopping these. Yes, even with shotguns,because a shotgun blast to a nest is pretty likely to kill the immobile queen and hopefully her eggs too.
Most likely you will simply inconvenience the queen. The chance of hitting one specific bug in a group of them is incredibly unlikely. If she gets away all you've done is make her go find a new local.
Its far more likely you'd get them by just using regular bug spray. Guns aren't for shooting bugs, except in Australia.
I spent a few years of my childhood in a very rural town called shipman, on a farm. I have seen bored farmers take out a hornet's nest with a 12 gauge loaded with birdshot just for fun. It worked in a very loud and messy way. Sometimes they invited friends and neighbors over to put on a show. (You might be a redneck if you ever used a shotgun to get rid of a wasp nest. You might be a redneck if you ever watched someone get rid of a wasp nest with a shotgun and it was the high point of your week.)
Those nests are basically paper mache'. Birdshot goes thru them and any insect in the way. At a distance it spreads out to cover like 5' area. Any wasps or hornets in that area are likely dead. A few shots into it basically turns it into a scattered spread of paper mache' snowflakes.
If you use a shotgun to get rid of a wasp or hornet nest, make a video and post it on youtube you might be an online redneck.
Sure this isn;t the best way to deal with these, but it will happen and it will help control them. Take what you can get. I'm waiting for the first video of this being done to a murder hornet nest.
AduroT wrote: Did you miss the part where this was inside of a tree?
Wasps, bees and hornets build a variety of nests in a variety of locations, I assume murder hornets will follow suit so not all will be the same.
And again, sheesh, I never meant this to be the solution to this invasion, i do believe it can be a part of an overall solution. And yes my view is tinted by seeing this sort of thing done as a young kid in real life.
The thing is not every farmer is effective with a gun and using a shot gun at an insect nest is a very imprecise weapon. Sure you might hit the queen, but you might well not hit the queen at all.
Sure you might hit the next generation of queen eggs, or you might miss entirely.
The thing is when you are dealing with very rapid breeding, rapid distribution species that can survive in an alien environment and thrive in it you have to have methods that are near to 100% effective. You can't just hope it works, you've got to know it works. Because if one queen survives she'll move, rebuild and repopulate.
You also have to account for all the nests that won't get spotted so easily. There will be that nest that escapes the net one year and repopulates and area next year. So you've got to have really reliable methods to take out each nest that you know of so that you at least can keep on top of control if not start to diminish and wipe them out.
It's why organisations will use specific language and discourage local efforts unless they can ensure education, awareness and upkeep of standards.
I am pretty sure that if just shooting a nest was an effective means of removal the experts who have spent decades studying insects and have infinitely more experience in the matter than us would have identified such.
Also people in rural communities are just that. They aren't some subtype of human distinct from the rest of us.
Look, there are cases where a shotgun would not be a valid choice, like inside a house, in a built up area, etc. I was talking about outdoor, rural situaions.
But whatever.....
I do wonder if insectivorous bats will eat them, i hope so.
Matt, in that second video while the nest gets absolutely obliterated, there are a whole lot of insects buzzing around afterwards (the guy in the video even says so). So probably wouldn't be my first choice for eradicating an invasive species
Of course, my first choice would be to have nothing to do with the "eradication" part personally, anyway . Who ya gonna call...
RiTides wrote: Of course, my first choice would be to have nothing to do with the "eradication" part personally, anyway . Who ya gonna call...
I'm not sure a ghost trap is going to be very effective against a Murder Hornet nest, but I imagine the energy streams from a proton pack would do a number on a nest - especially if you were to cross them.
They might want to go with a more substantial set of overalls, though.
Now, that's hornets, right? And a shotgun. And I am betting that queen never bothered anyone again, nor did its eggs crawl away to spawn new tyran... er .. wasp faction armies.
And honestly, a few quick shots or several guys firing at the same time will likely tear the nest apart and kill most bugs in it, especially the queen. I've seen people doing it when i was a kid.
Not the best way, of course, but better than nothing.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I am sure encouraging groups of people to go out with shotguns to shoot wasp nests simultaneously would end well.
I'm not actively encouraging it, i'm saying IT WILL HAPPEN. Trust me, I saw this happen when i was a kid, with ordinary wasps or hornets, i don't remember. Once someone sees a chance to be a real big hero by blasting g a nest of these killer hornets, it's gonna happen. Best we can do is hope it goes well. (Now where's an orkicon of someone crossing his fingers when you need one?!)
Well, that and wait for the inevitable youtube video, of course.
A nest can only create more nests if queens breed new queens which mature and leave. Destroy the nest, kill the queen and the surviving drones are a nuisance at worst.
A few 12 gauge rounds of birdshot thru the center of mass is quite likely going to kill the queen, the eggs and destroy the nest.
If a nest is destroyed before a new queen martures and leaves then you've reduced further spread. Reduce it enough, kill enough nests, be it with gas of birdshot, and the problem is solved.
Make sure the rural types know about these and the trouble they can cause and they'll be looking out for them, and dealing with them. Ask nice and they might even report the nests they destroy to aid in tracking. These people may have a bad image but seriously, they are a resource that can be used here. Reach out to them with respect, offer some bounties on these nests and i think they'll go a good way to stopping these. Yes, even with shotguns,because a shotgun blast to a nest is pretty likely to kill the immobile queen and hopefully her eggs too.
It seems like you were very much saying to encourage it.
Ideally i'd like anyone anywhere seeing murder hornets and a possible nest to report it, but i know in modern america that's not going to happen in a lot of places.
Let's face it, millions of people won't follow guidelines of dealing with covid, d'you you really think they're going to follow common sense guidelines on dealing with these things?
They're not. So in those cases, yes, I would hope they'd decide to do a DIY job on the net and , maybe, destroy it and stop it spreading.
I'm just facing the reality that if a lot of people are told that "there is a problem and this is the best solution" you can bet you favorite body part they won't do it.
Sometimes a less than optimal response to a bad situation is the best you can hope for.
It looks like American Grotsnik has reached a new low! Good thing he's not leading the charge on the Murder Hornet issue in the USA - or anywhere else!
It's pretty ingenious, actually, and they're calling it the first tool use found in bees! (If the link above asks you to sign up, just refresh the page and it should let you view it normally again)
It's pretty ingenious, actually, and they're calling it the first tool use found in bees! (If the link above asks you to sign up, just refresh the page and it should let you view it normally again)
I don't think that actually qualifies as tool use. A Tool is an object that a creature actively uses to alter its environment. A dung blockade of your entrance is just an act of construction, no different to constructing the rest of the hive actually. It certainly is no more tool use for the bees than them crafting their honeycomb.
Now if the Bees were using chunks of dung to attack the hornets when being attacked, that would be tool use.
Funny, but jokes aside it's clearly not tool use. Tool use is the act of actively manipulating an object to manipulate another object. IE: Using a part of your body to perform an action with the Tool to do something directly to another object/creature.
These bees are just putting poo around their doors and letting it passively drive the hornets away. That is, quite explicitly, not tool use.
Grey Templar, Yeah at the end of the article there is some debate between experts on both sides of the "is this tool use?" question. But quite frankly, I think the theory stinks.....
Just keep in mind that is in their native habitat so there is reduced (if no) ecological risk from those hives. It's purely for human benefit to remove them
This is excluding if human environments are causing a surge in populations resulting in them being able to sustain (if only in the short term) abnormally high populations and thus cause ecological damage that way.
Overread wrote: Just keep in mind that is in their native habitat so there is reduced (if no) ecological risk from those hives. It's purely for human benefit to remove them
If you read the article there's apparently over 100 nests in one village, hence the action being taken.
Also, they're a wasp, so not anything to do with this thread other than they're vaguely genetically related.
