The tendency of the last few editions is towards streamlined, consistent rules, but in the past, some units had very unique rules or mechanics. What are the most noteworthy ones? (Not necessarily the best rules; it can be something overly complex or cumbersome.)

According to 1d4chan, Solitaires used to have a rule that gave them +1 attack for every inch of Movement they did not use when charging.

Also, I seem to remember that when I started playing 40k, Mandrakes had an infiltration rule that involved putting 3 tokens on the table and secretly writing down which token represented the unit's actual position. Am I remembering correctly?

In Warhammer Fantasy, Skaven had a cannon whose number of shots was determined by rolling any number of D6's one after the other; but if you get a double, the gun blows up, so don't get greedy! This sounds like the sort of thing Orks would have.

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Not sure how accurate these are since it's been so long but here goes a few.

-The secret deployment for lictors where you could use a flamer to try and flush them out.
-Orks mobbing up after falling back and the trucks careening when they die.
-tank shock and death or glory.

How about the Callidus Assassin's ability to force a 6" redeploy on a single enemy model?

My favorite exploit for this was to take an enemy Land Raider that had deployed behind cover instead deployed on top of it.

Tau Suit JSJ? Something that I wouldn't be horribly disappointed to see return.

Another example of those interesting rules is one we have universally now, and that's when certain models were allowed to allocate how many attacks they wanted to make with each melee weapon they had. It was absurdly rare. It also didn't make sense on certain models where there was no point to actually split said attacks.

From back in the RT days: The Imperial Robot programing/action flow chart.
Using a robot was this clunky system of A) programing it first, B) running through the flow chart everytime you did something with it.
It was probably even worse than this sounds & I'm just not remembering as no one I've ever played with used a robot and it's been years & years since I last looked the robot rules over.

The Warp storm table for Daemons in 6th/7th. Every turn you rolled a D66 and applied the result, some games were decided by a good / bad roll on that table alone. Towards the end of 7th they implemented a way to make it work less devastating for the Daemon player. I actually liked it after that change. It was surely better than the CSM boon of Chaos table, which still exists, but is less swingy and totally optional now.

Teleport homers. Deep Striking used to be risky (unless you shortcutted the process with a Drop Pod), but you could park a unit with teleport homers out on the field to land them accurately without scattering. It gave you ways to predict and inhibit your opponent's Deep Strikers rather than just having them show up and blow you off the table. with no chance of failure.

Armour facings/vehicle fire arcs. This didn't always hold up due to poor stat-assignment decisions (GW increasingly made units with the same front/side armour or the same armour all round towards the end), and it could be awkward with non-rectangular vehicles, but it also made the game feel alive to me in a way today's abstract balls of numbers can't match.

Everything about the 30k Ruinstorm Daemons list. From the demonic alignment giving the daemons a different primary objective (Khorne wants units to die, Tzeentch wants more psychic powers cast, Nurgle wants to cover the table, Slaanesh wants people to fail morale tests), to the flexibility of the unit builds, to the rank-and-file flying monster so you're not weirdly top-heavy with HQ FMCs, to the deployment via warp rift...

Apocalypse formations. Before 6th/7th decided to ruin the concept with massive free buffs for breaking the force org chart these were fluffy and interesting bonuses for bringing specific combinations of units that came with a points cost to help balance the buffs (something they went back to for formations in Sigmar).

Random Reserves. You used to get your Reserves on a random turn, usually between 2 and 4, and the best you could to for making it more reliable was getting half your Valkyries (Elysians) or Drop Pods (SM) automatically on turn one. Putting a unit in Reserves was a risk, not a free invincible extra deployment zone. Random outflank, similarly.

-1T in melee vs GK, locking models out in melee with special grenades, +1str to bolters and psycanons, ingoring invunerable saves. vehicles being psykers. GK termintors being able to take storm shields and hammers. servo skulls as cheap units you could buy. opponent having to roll each time they want to shot at your models, to check if they actualy can see you.

Tank shocks/rams, and armour facings.
They made vehicles feel distinctly different.

Furioso Dreadnoughts with bloodtalons used to get an additional, free, attack for every unsaved wound they inflicted. It never ended either, so as long as you kept rolling wounds you could keep killing things.
At the start of the battle all Blood Angels units had to roll to see if they succumbed to the Red Thirst and/or Black Rage, your Death Company squad was a compulsory unit comprised of any models that 'failed' their roll.

I really liked the way deployment worked by Force Org slot in 3rd edition. You had to deploy your Heavy support first as these were supposedly the least mobile and flexible of your units, then there was a specific order that ended with deploying Fast Attack, theoretically allowing your more mobile units to get even more use out of their speed.

It wasn't a perfect system by any means, but it was thematic and another element to consider during army construction.

Similarly, I really miss the old Force Org Chart where everyone used the same one. It made armies look much more like armies and forced actual choices during army building. Of course, GW then went and broke it with special rules and exemptions, but the ideas was good.

As soon as I saw the name of this thread, I was going to mention the Mandrakes as it was my favorite old rule.

You took three Mandrake models and deployed them with the rest of your army. You moved them like any other unit. They could not shoot or attack, but they also could not be targeted by shooting or assault. Then you got to decide which one of those three models was the actual unit (you had to reveal them by turn three). You decided which of the three "decoys" was the actual unit and put your pieces down almost like a deep strike.

It was a very fluffy mechanic, it was good for sowing panic, and wasn't too complicated as far as rules go. I wish they would bring it back for Mandrakes (and only for Mandrakes). It really made them unique,

On a totally unrelated note, I liked how 2nd Edition Tyranids has a table for their opponents to roll on after deployment but before the first round. It was stuff like "They're all around us!" or reserve units getting delayed when it was time to deploy. This was back in the days when a Carnifex was their biggest model and they didn't have all the tanks and dreds their opponents did. The idea was similar to why Daemons got that Warpstorm table, but it wasn't as ridiculously random.

The 2nd edition Tyranid stuff that disrupted your opponent before the game started was a neat idea.

I liked the psychology rules for 2nd edition too, particularly the panic rule, and I really liked the pinning/go-to-ground rules back from 6th/7th edition.

Vehicles used to have unique charts that explained with a brief narrative what happened from a hit that penetrated their armour (and every gun had unique armour penetration dice, including using other polyhedrons).

Stuff like the controls getting jammed, ammo exploding or the tracks getting blown up would all result in different results, including going "out of control" and moving somewhat randomly.

2e also had strategy cards that could reveal secret conditions for the battlefield, the most ludicrous being stuff like Virus Bombs that meant models outside of sealed armour like power armour had to roll every turn to see if they succumbed to the virus.

Wargear cards gave weird and wonderful energy fields, like the Displacer Field that teleported you d6" in a random direction after each deflected hit, or the Refractor Field that produced bright flashes of light as the kinetic energy of projectiles was converted to light.

Vortex grenades are of course infamous, and many a veteran sergeant carried one into battle.

In 3e, you had different force org charts based on the mission you were playing. Standard Missions had mirrored charts (1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 Elites, 0-3 Heavy Support and 0-3 Fast Attack) but the other missions had an attacker and defender, with different force orgs to represent their different missions. Defenders might get limited Fast Attack but more Heavy Support, whereas Attackers might get more Elites and so on. There were also special rules for stuff like Sentries and raising the alarm. The 3e missions were awesome, and are pretty transferable to a lot of modern games with very little work.

1st edition vehicle manual. Had cutaways of each vehicle and a transparent aiming grid - you placed the crosshairs over what you were trying to hit and rolled for deviation.

Black Templar zeal - any casualties inflict on them would give the unit a free move towards the nearest enemy unit.

5es wacky wound allocation, splitting dice into different colours and units into different 'types' - so the poor sergeant would get hit square in the face by all four lascannons and the rest of the squad would just take bolter fire.

3e witch hunters faith and the book of st. stubborn. The army rewarded you for getting your army strategically killed.

Grey Knights Redeemer Force. The formation required you to give control of your army to your chaos opponent in the event that you had tabled them. In the even you had actually managed to get it on the board in the first place.

 Da Boss wrote:
Stuff like the controls getting jammed, ammo exploding or the tracks getting blown up would all result in different results, including going "out of control" and moving somewhat randomly.

Once killed an ork warboss with a skorcha.
Not with the flamethrower mind you - a guard sergeant with a bolt pistol blew its front wheel off and it backflipped up the table, over a large LoS blocking bunker, and flattened the boss and his entire retinue.

Grotesques being immune to shooting unless it was instant death.

I recall that in a previous, fairly recent edition (6th maybe?) the usual penalty for a Tau Ethereal dying was pretty light, and the benefit was much greater than that penalty. It was something like "units within a certain distance must make a leadership test, but then all other units are fearless for the rest of the game".

That edition also had rules for falling off of structures, which was bizarre in that it had basically no rules for how you would actually force an opponent's models to fall off a structure.

this created a situation where the "meta move" for Tau players was to deploy an ethereal at the top of the tallest building and begin the battle with him inspiring the men by leaping off to his death.

Another fun rule that is my favorite comes from the sacred cow edition from the generation of grogs that were around when I started playing in 5th, 2nd edition. Nowadays the grogs have mostly shifted to viewing fifth as 'the good old days', but back then it was 2nd.

one of the standard to-hit modifiers in 2nd edition was if a model was "Bigger than an elephant." So the BaconCatBugs of 2nd edition presumably had to keep a properly scaled Regulation Model Elephant to measure against to determine if their models got +1 to hit (Or, I suppose, they could argue Um Ackshually The Rules Do Not Specify A "Model" Elephant So This Rule Would Only Apply If Your Model Is Bigger Than A Real Elephant)

Necrons:

-Gauss would automatically glance vehicles on a wound roll of 6 regardless of armor value unless it could penetrate, and Warriors had an upgrade that gave them Gauss in Melee. Not that you wanted them there

-Monoliths ignored Melta. Which was huge because it had some of the highest AV in the game. Almost unkillable.

-Warscythes totally ignored all saves.

Failed moral made a unit run away to the nearest board edge. If a unit ran from melee then the opponent could run them down and wipe the whole remaining unit out.

Going to ground/Pinning. Unit counted as being in cover iirc, but could not move the next turn.

Grenades had different classes/types.

For a while Hormagaunts were actually better outside of synapse.

Deepstriking could kill your unit as it could drift away from your intended landing area.

the_scotsman wrote:
That edition also had rules for falling off of structures, which was bizarre in that it had basically no rules for how you would actually force an opponent's models to fall off a structure. this created a situation where the "meta move" for Tau players was to deploy an ethereal at the top of the tallest building and begin the battle with him inspiring the men by leaping off to his death.

4e tau with the 6e rules. Army wide reroll 1s to hit and to wound for 50 points.
Easiest way was to leap him off arm in arm with a friend into a space only large enough for one of them, otherwise he'd have to climb back up and throw himself to his death a second time IIRC.

There were a few interesting kamikaze tactics in earlier editions. Dark eldar had a trick of turbo-boosting their transports into tanks and buildings as there were no restrictions on assaulting out of a smoking crater.

I remember a lot of unnecessary rules from 3rd, like how if you stunned/shook a skimmer vehicle, it would drift a random number inches in a random direction (and could kill it's self by going off the board).

I also have memories/nightmares about my buddies Altioc eldar army, which could (with the disruption table), cause your army to start the game in a combination of pinned, or off the table. Really, really annoying.

3rd was really the wild west of 40k, lots of random army lists in a variety of white dwarf issues/supplements/ expansions, and a lot of just absolutely bonkers.

I also played one of those lists, Kroot Mercenaries, and I'd be able to start the game with my whole army basically within like 8" of my opponents army T1 every game, with a bunch of kroot, and some armed with Eviserators.

Chaos Marine Dreadnoughts in 2nd edition used to suffer from various psychology rules including Stupidity. Each turn you had to roll, and if the dread failed his roll, there was a chance he would frenzy and open fire with all ranged weapons on the closest unit, friendly or enemy, or charge into melee with said nearest unit, among other results.

I love this thread

 kirotheavenger wrote:

At the start of the battle all Blood Angels units had to roll to see if they succumbed to the Red Thirst and/or Black Rage, your Death Company squad was a compulsory unit comprised of any models that 'failed' their roll.

Hah, I played BAs at that time. It was the main reason you took the sergeant upgrade in all your squads, because if that squad delivered a black ranger, they got a free power weapon

I think the most 9verly complicated rule that was based on some kind 9f realistic thing was the early vehicle targeting rules where you had to hit, then put a transparent overlay on a picture of the part of the vehicle you wanted to try and hit then roll.scatter on the diagram... you could proceed to miss the thing you had just hit, bit it Lso let you do pinpoint strikes against specific components. Nice idea for those who like super detailed resolution, but dear lord it was time consuming.and has no place in a game with more than 1 vehicle per side.

Inquisitor wargear that shut down every plasma weapon around it. What was it called, plasma syphon?

Also, I'm sure that we all remember how the old necron mind scarabs worked.

Oh and my favorite thing from 6E/7E. Who needs a reaper chainsword on a knight when your feets insta delete anything in small template on a roll of 6?

Ork Madboys in Rogue Trader (lesser extent 2ed) were completely daft.

Deploy on the battlefield. Then roll a D10 for there mood. Then check the corresponding chart which also has 10 options. You do this every time something from a list of about ten things happens to the mob.

You rolled a 3 and got Phobiak, roll another D10. You got a 5 ~ Oi, where's da pinz gone? The mob is convinced they lost all there grenade pins and will explode soon, hurl all grenades in random directions.

As DA player I miss having Rad grenades as an option on my black knights. Being able to lower toughness by 1 and then have the remaining plasma shots count as over double toughness was just mean.

 Shuma-Gorath wrote:
Ork Madboys in Rogue Trader (lesser extent 2ed) were completely daft.

Deploy on the battlefield. Then roll a D10 for there mood. Then check the corresponding chart which also has 10 options. You do this every time something from a list of about ten things happens to the mob.

You rolled a 3 and got Phobiak, roll another D10. You got a 5 ~ Oi, where's da pinz gone? The mob is convinced they lost all there grenade pins and will explode soon, hurl all grenades in random directions.

I miss these kinds of rules for orks. IMO 2nd edition split the difference between the various random results - it could either go horribly wrong, or amazingly awesome in equal amounts. In later editions(7th I think was a big culprit of this... also it was the first orks codex after the 4th? ed one), the tables were more like 6 is a great result for the orks, 1-5 is various levels of awful results. There was no in-between.

BomBomHotdog wrote:


Grenades had different classes/types..

Oh it was much better than that... frag, Krak, blind, melta, anti-plant, smoke, choke, hallucinogenic, haywire, knock-out, photon, plasma, psyk-out, rad, scare, stasis, stumm, tanglefoot, toxin, virus and vortex. These could also all be made into mines and most into missiles.

Half of them also stayed on the board after you used them leading to a hugely complicated end phase where you tried to work out whether a unit would be broiled alive by roaming plasma balls, or just flat out removed by a rogue warp vortex

I miss the scatter mechanic - it was so stupidly lethal by the end (except for drop pods, natch) that it had to go, but I miss that random element. I miss the old flamer template and pie plates too.

Jump-shoot-jump is still a critical piece of Tau kit that the whole army pays to have... and currently doesn't get.

Tank shock was so mediocre and confusingly worded that it affected my local meta.

I started playing in 5th, and back then there were no HP mechanics on vehicles, they got shot, took the hit, you rolled for armour penetration with penalties if it didn't successfully pierce the armour, and the result would either destroy a weapon, immobilize the vehicle, disable it, or blow it up - in theory a vehicle's armour facing and number of weapons would collectively contribute to how tough it could potentially be - in practice it meant that your opponent had taking anti-tank considerations and the metal box would explode under one round of shooting, or had not and would last the entire game - probably immobilized on some rock.

You also couldn't pre-measure when I started playing 40k - generally it meant players started shooting a little closer than they actually had to, but every once in a while someone would try a long shot and realize they were out of range and the shot was wasted.

The old Witch Hunters codex allowed you to take Land Raiders but because that version of the stat block predated the assault ramp special rule Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights units weren't allowed to charge out of it when I played it in 5th edition .

The Witch Hunters codex also had a piece of wargear called bionics (which was an imperial staple back in 3rd edition) that let a character get back up with one wound on a d6 - there a better, more game-y versions in the current ruleset but I'll never forget the time my canoness got pummeled to death by terminators, got up, carved through a predator like a christmas turkey, got clobbered by the terminators again, got up again, carved up a rhino, before finally dying for good.

The original 2nd ed Ork Warbuggy had a rule where it could transport as many orks as you could physically place models on the actual wagon. So, theoretically, you could transport your whole army, BUT any models that fall off while you're moving it were judged to have actually fallen off the buggy and took falling damage and would be out of coherency later in the phase. Good times.

2nd ed also allowed you to shoot into combat. Not "Shoot into combat" the way we understand it in 9th, but truly shooting into combat. So your 5 marines have been charged by 40 grots? Just have another squad fire into the combat with weapons that can't hurt the marines but CAN hurt the grots.

Off the top of my head:

- The Nanoscarab Casket from 8th.

- The entire Corsairs book from 7th edition. It had so many wonderful rules.
- Reckless Abandon let units move 2d6" if they shot an enemy within 12", encouraging you to get close, fire pistols and then dart away again. In addition to being fun and fluffy, it made the army feel very fast and agile.
- Every single infantry unit could take a Jet Pack. So if you wanted, you could have a fast army with 0 vehicles.
- The First Prince rule let you pick a specialisation for your Corsair Prince, and you'd then usually have the option of applying a lesser version of it to each other character in your army (cost dependant on the ability).
- The Coterie system, wherein your FoC was made up by several tiny ones, all from rival subfactions. It was a little like the current DE detachment system, except that it was written by someone actually competent.

- In 5th, DE Hellions used to be able to 'kidnap' a character when they fell back from combat using Hit & Run.

- The 7th edition DE formation that let a Hamonculus, Talos and Cronos all join together as a single unit.

- The way the Necron Royal Court worked in 5th edition, where they could be a unit on their own or else individual Lords/Crypteks could split off and join other units as pseudo-sergeants.

Wound Allocation shenanigans from 5th.
Split-Firing Long Fangs
Psyflemen Dreadnoughts
IG Leafblower Hydra lists

Units like Marines, Fire Dragons, Tankbustas etc. actually being able to use grenades with all their unit members against vehicles in CC.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Units like Marines, Fire Dragons, Tankbustas etc. actually being able to use grenades with all their unit members against vehicles in CC.

Follow-up: Anti-tank grenades in general. They seem to have largely disappeared in favor of using buff stacks to make knives effective anti-tank weapons.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Units like Marines, Fire Dragons, Tankbustas etc. actually being able to use grenades with all their unit members against vehicles in CC.

Follow-up: Anti-tank grenades in general. They seem to have largely disappeared in favor of using buff stacks to make knives effective anti-tank weapons.

Oh yeah. Gosh I even forgot about that. Grenades can't be used at all in CC anymore, can they.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Units like Marines, Fire Dragons, Tankbustas etc. actually being able to use grenades with all their unit members against vehicles in CC.

Follow-up: Anti-tank grenades in general. They seem to have largely disappeared in favor of using buff stacks to make knives effective anti-tank weapons.

Oh yeah. Gosh I even forgot about that. Grenades can't be used at all in CC anymore, can they.

That being said I actually liked all of the abstract grenade benefits like ignoring cover or getting a defense bonus. Throwing them and actually doing damage is fun, but I can count on one hand how many models I actually killed using grenades since 8th edition.

Daemonhunter Force Weapons are always a classic. Force Weapons were updated to cause Instant Death at the start of 5th Ed (I think it was 5th), but the Daemonhunter wording remained as "the target is slain outright" or along those lines, so it essentially had the equivalent of the Vortex rule against anything that wasn't a vehicle.

Again with the Daemonhunters, in that particular edition you couldn't pre-measure anything, but taking a Targeter for your units allowed you to do just that which is a substantial benefit. The best part is, they only cost a single point per unit.

Speaking of Daemonhunters, in 4th/5th your opponent got to declare that they were playing an 'adversary' army, and have one of their HQ choices be possessed by a Greater Daemon who could emerge during gameplay.

It was very transparently a ploy to get non-Chaos players to buy Greater Daemons, but it was also a fun and fluffy way to justify Grey Knights being deployed against xenos forces.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Units like Marines, Fire Dragons, Tankbustas etc. actually being able to use grenades with all their unit members against vehicles in CC.

Follow-up: Anti-tank grenades in general. They seem to have largely disappeared in favor of using buff stacks to make knives effective anti-tank weapons.

Oh yeah. Gosh I even forgot about that. Grenades can't be used at all in CC anymore, can they.

That being said I actually liked all of the abstract grenade benefits like ignoring cover or getting a defense bonus. Throwing them and actually doing damage is fun, but I can count on one hand how many models I actually killed using grenades since 8th edition.

I liked those effects too, and they paired pretty well with the use in CC. Being able to throw a grenade works fine as a mechanic. I've definitely used them from time to time, especially Krak against Custodes and Frag against GEQs in 8th. I remember knocking the final wound off a Helldrake in 6th or 7t too. Imo all those mechanics could coexist comfortably.

Back in 3rd edition Assault Squads could purchase Blind grenades they could throw to give themselves a 5+ cover save, iirc.

Ogryn and Wraithguard/lord "stupidity" - in older editions you had to make checks to see if these units would be able to take actions. For ogryns, it was truly stupidity but for the wraiths they got lost in reminiscing or seeing through the eyes of the spirit world and being unable to act.

And I'm surprised no one has mentioned Creed and his ability to hide a Baneblade behind a nearby lamppost.

Finally, sustained fire dice - a "push your luck" mechanic for assault cannons and other machine guns where you could attempt to fire as many times as you want - until you jam the gun or blow it up somehow.

 Stormonu wrote:
...And I'm surprised no one has mentioned Creed and his ability to hide a Baneblade behind a nearby lamppost...

Hiding Titans behind lampposts is a 1d4chan meme. The rule let him give any one unit Outflank, which isn't that exciting.

Scatter, templates, facings, pinned and go to ground/ take cover, old overwatch, using chits to mark orders, declaring unit actions and intended targets using said chits at the beginning of the turn a la Epic, non random charge distances, ...

Lots of stuff listed by other posters, e.g. grenades...

 Valkyrie wrote:
Daemonhunter Force Weapons are always a classic. Force Weapons were updated to cause Instant Death at the start of 5th Ed (I think it was 5th), but the Daemonhunter wording remained as "the target is slain outright" or along those lines, so it essentially had the equivalent of the Vortex rule against anything that wasn't a vehicle

Force weapons were standardised in the 4th edition main rulebook - but daemonhunters were 3e.
Of course none of the grey knights force weapons were actually force weapons aside from the one carried by the grand master, and even he could only use it every other assault phase. It was still handy though as Gav Thrope made the entire daemons codex immune to force weapons in 4e.

The witch hunters codex had a similar adversaries ruleset that allowed the opponent to designate on of their HQ characters as a psyker. This was not necessarily a good idea for the opponent.

Looted wagons for Orks. It really allowed a player to get creative with their conversions.

Necron Phase Out rule. If your opponent managed to destroy 75% of your models with the Necron rule, you autolost the game at the start of your turn after We'll Be Back (similar to Reanimation Protocols) rolls were made.

I think that Pariahs, Monoliths, Tomb Spyders (Canoptek Spyders now), C'tan and Scarab Swarms didn't have the Necron rule. This left your opponent with Necron Lord, Immortal, Warrior, Destroyer, Flayed ones, and Wraiths to target for Phase Out.

Does anyone remember the original metal Necron "army" from White Dwarf? Like Scarabs that would eat armor value from vehicles? Sure, they would die when the vehicle they were munching on blew up, but they were so cheap it was worth it!

Or how about when enemies got -1 to BS for every Necron Warrior squad within like 6 inches? I remember literally marching my army across across the battle field, stopping three inches from an IG gunline, and just shooting them for three rounds. The IG had a negative BS because of all the units and literally could not shoot back. And since both my opponent and I were iffy on 2nd edition's close combat rules, neither of us dared to initiate melee. So it was just a matter of time until the IG squads failed leadership and ran off the table.

<edited for bad grammar>

 KidCthulhu wrote:
Does anyone remember the original metal Necron "army" from White Dwarf? Like Scarabs that would eat armor value from vehicles? Sure, they would die when the vehicle they were munching on blew up, but they were so cheap it was worth it!

Or how about when enemies got -1 to BS for every Necron Warrior squad within like 6 inches? I remember literally marching my army across across the battle field, stopping three inches from an IG gunline, and just shooting them for three rounds. The IG had a negative BS because of all the units and literally could not shoot back. And since both my opponent and I were iffy on 2nd edition's close combat rules, neither of us dared to initiate melee. So it was just a matter of time until the IG squads failed leadership and ran off the table.

<edited for bad grammar>

Back when they had 2+ saves and autopassed all morales, even ones you couldnt save for. The special rule for Warriors is called Disruptor Zone, and it was a -1 to hit penalty for EACH NECRON within 6". Straight from WD 217. DZ also had a few other abilities, namely Vehicles or Dreadnaughts wiwthing 6" of a necron at the start of its turn must roll a 4+ on a D6 in order to move at all, and only moved half its movement if it succeeded. Also, enemies in close combat against necrons couldn't use the STR of their weapons, only of the base model.

I could talk for DAYS about all the cool stuff necrons had in 2e and 3e. I miss them. I don't miss only having 11 units to choose from though. Screw that.

Edit: For anyone interested, Necron in 2e had rules that originally appeared in WD 217, had a list in 218, and had some other misc stuff in 220, 230, and 239. 3e got them a codex and a bunch of WD features. The rest is history.

 Irkjoe wrote:

-tank shock and death or glory.

Loved these - force a unit to displace or leave a lone hero/victim to try to destroy the tank through phenomenal luck

crazysaneman wrote:

 KidCthulhu wrote:
Does anyone remember the original metal Necron "army" from White Dwarf? Like Scarabs that would eat armor value from vehicles? Sure, they would die when the vehicle they were munching on blew up, but they were so cheap it was worth it!

Or how about when enemies got -1 to BS for every Necron Warrior squad within like 6 inches? I remember literally marching my army across across the battle field, stopping three inches from an IG gunline, and just shooting them for three rounds. The IG had a negative BS because of all the units and literally could not shoot back. And since both my opponent and I were iffy on 2nd edition's close combat rules, neither of us dared to initiate melee. So it was just a matter of time until the IG squads failed leadership and ran off the table.

<edited for bad grammar>

Back when they had 2+ saves and autopassed all morales, even ones you couldnt save for. The special rule for Warriors is called Disruptor Zone, and it was a -1 to hit penalty for EACH NECRON within 6". Straight from WD 217. DZ also had a few other abilities, namely Vehicles or Dreadnaughts wiwthing 6" of a necron at the start of its turn must roll a 4+ on a D6 in order to move at all, and only moved half its movement if it succeeded. Also, enemies in close combat against necrons couldn't use the STR of their weapons, only of the base model.

I could talk for DAYS about all the cool stuff necrons had in 2e and 3e. I miss them. I don't miss only having 11 units to choose from though. Screw that.

Edit: For anyone interested, Necron in 2e had rules that originally appeared in WD 217, had a list in 218, and had some other misc stuff in 220, 230, and 239. 3e got them a codex and a bunch of WD features. The rest is history.

+1 to that. I miss the old Necrons.

And although they had fewer units, I preferred them more. I haven't been to fond of the unit additions to them overall.

Crossfire: If an enemy unit falls back into your unit, it is automatically destroyed.

Annihilate APC: Roll well enough on your vehicle damage table and both destroy the transport and kill everyone inside.

 KidCthulhu wrote:
Does anyone remember the original metal Necron "army" from White Dwarf? Like Scarabs that would eat armor value from vehicles? Sure, they would die when the vehicle they were munching on blew up, but they were so cheap it was worth it!

They had toughness 8 and enemies in hand to hand combat didn't get any bonuses from their weapons. If your model didn't have a basic strength characteristic of at least 5 you didn't even get to roll to wound them. They also had a 16" move (flying) and a 2+ save.

They cost as much as a bolter-armed tactical marine.

Having a separate Ordinance Vehicle Damage chart. The peach was the #6 result which detonated the entirety of the transport, wiped out everyone embarked, AND radiated damage 6" from the hull.

Summoning through malefic discipline.

It was similarly one of the greatest concepts and poorest executions:Supposedly A high risk psy discipline only available to some with a high potential reward.
Except that GW fethed up, allowed eldar to summon daemons and made the rules containing the possibility to create in essence more summoners...

Adaptable / customizable units.
IA13 renegade list could viably represent all off the following:
Mass uprising, Mutant uprising, Chaos infiltration cult, Traitor guard regiment, Bloodpact assault formation, Dark mechanicus, PDF.

And with just 3 troop choices, which were your bread and butter for the army. At a time where you'd normally would avoid the fielding of troop units like the plague. And the best of it all, it was all going over your points, instead of right now were we just get piles of rules beeing attached to a paintscheme making some marines f.e. far superior to other ones...

Doctrines, yea, oldshool IG doctrines. Your friendly neighbourhood light infantry regiment played diffrently then grenadiers which played diffrently then mechanized, came with stipulations aswell.

Duel Chart for chaos. Yes your champions once got rewarded for duelling, yes this is chaos. Should've been restricted to HQ's though instead of all champions all the time forcing duels

Old school gauss got named.

Oldschool fearless, never search for cover but never step back was kinda awesome, especially when a Khorne berzerker champion whacks a catan splinter after having his squad wiped.

Old school lictor perfect ambush... Simultaniously why now that all can DS like him DS became an issue... I wonder why?

Catbarf mentioned the Grey Knights, I have to say I always see that codex as sort of the death knell of Xenos in 40K. It was a pretty open acknowledgement that Xenos were NPC factions and our stories didn't matter.
Grey Knights should have stayed an optional squad or two for Imperial forces in narrative battles, and not been their own faction that forced Xenos players to have been manipulated by Chaos "all along" to have a game that made in universe sense. Displayed an attitude at GW of Marine faction as Protagonist and Xenos faction as NPC where as Chaos is the True Threat that I think is still with us to this day, sadly.

That said, I loved the Greater Daemon rules when the Greater Daemon had to explode out of an Aspiring Champion or other Character, and how you could end up consuming your Chaos Lord to unleash a bloodthirster. Great mechanic.

 Da Boss wrote:
Grey Knights should have stayed an optional squad or two for Imperial forces in narrative battles, and not been their own faction that forced Xenos players to have been manipulated by Chaos "all along" to have a game that made in universe sense.

I think that is a little unfair on the daemonhunters book as the adversaries rules were for pre-set narrative games and similar to the enslaver rules - you had to actually pay points and build your FoC slots around the daemons and heretics. 3e DH was a glorified allies book wrapping up some of the missing 2nd ed imperial agents units.

I feel like they used to do way more of 'Take this HQ unit and this other Elite unit becomes a troop choice', which I always liked.


I also miss units with such a high WS/BS that they got an extra roll if they missed.

A.T. wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Grey Knights should have stayed an optional squad or two for Imperial forces in narrative battles, and not been their own faction that forced Xenos players to have been manipulated by Chaos "all along" to have a game that made in universe sense.

I think that is a little unfair on the daemonhunters book as the adversaries rules were for pre-set narrative games and similar to the enslaver rules - you had to actually pay points and build your FoC slots around the daemons and heretics. 3e DH was a glorified allies book wrapping up some of the missing 2nd ed imperial agents units.

I think it should have just remained an allies book that stapled it's units onto proper Imperial Armies rather than being a stand alone book in it's own right. Because specialist daemon hunters don't make any sense outside of scenarios where you are fighting daemons. I am the sort of player that likes to name my characters and chronicle their deeds so that their battles are an ongoing story. It always felt dumb to me that whenever I played against my friends Daemonhunters my Warboss was suddenly being manipulated by Chaos All Along and it sort of signalled clearly that the "main" faction of 40K is the space marines, and the antagonist is Chaos, and Xenos is the NPC faction. Wasn't a good feeling.

I'll throw out some basic ones that I think are worthy of note:

Armor and cover and invulnerable saves - I like saves, they make me the defending player feel like I'm doing something rather than sitting there soaking up fire. I'd love cover saves to come back, maybe with a basic "you get one save, with a +1 if you have cover" for the times when armor saves are better than cover.

Rapid Fire > range modifiers - when 3rd hit GW explained that rather than modifiers they gave players more shots at short ranges. Easy rule, encouraged getting close, accomplished the same thing as bonus to close range in a more fun way, since we all like rolling more dice. The problem was it was inconsistent, a bolter got more shots at close range but not a melta or lascannon.

A bolter is a bolter is a bolter - No one cares if you have a drum mag, or a laser sight, or a bayonet. There's 100 people on the board, we just care which gun you have. Of course this fell apart early and is getting worse with, what? 15 kinds of bolter now?

Infantry have 1 wound - GW really needs to go back to this. I'd prefer T5 marines to 2 wound marines just for bookkeeping. Save multiple wounds for monsters and tanks.

Oh that is a good one for the last point. 2W becoming the standard for infantry is a bit nuts for a mass battle game.

Oh and if you want original Necron rules...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/224922.page

Like others have mentioned the original necrons were fun as were the 2nd Ed location damage tables for vehicles like when the wraithlord took the worst result to the head and potentially killed any nearby Farseers and Warlocks.

The D-Cannon had a host of fun rules too as it might not damage the target it might just displace the target, which then came with another table to roll on with results like the target is inverted so if it's infantry it has to spend the next turn standing up and if it's a vehicle with a turret it's now immbolised and can't use the turret gun.

I don’t really miss charts or goofy rules. I get the appeal, but I find them generally inelegant or frustrating.

I did like a few concepts from the past which opened up either options for the player, such as going to ground, or that allowed players to set up clever outcomes, such as some of the morale rules or melta bombs or what not.

The good news is that many of those old rules were kind of haphazardly implemented, and many are coming back via stratagem, although again, implementation is spotty.

Speaking of charts. The make your own chaos champion and warband for either warhammer fantasy 3rd edition or Rogue Trader from the Realm of Chaos books was something else. many D100 and D1000 charts

Roll dice - You have a level 10 Human Champion of Slaanesh
roll more dice, he has a chaos weapon which can be thrown at the enemy and a horse.
roll many more dice - he has a 6 skaven, 3 goblins with cloven feet and 1 dwarf wizard following him
roll a lot more dice - Slaanesh has declared he may have some chaos armor and a steed of slaanesh
roll a load of dice - Slaanesh has blessed the champion with a scorpions tail, put his head where his chest should be, made his skin blue, atrophied one leg and given him eye stalks.

Play one game, you win.

Roll some dice - your champion has become a chaos spawn
Roll a lot more dice - Your champion has the head of a manticore, no legs, three eyes, can teleport, suffers from stupidity, has acid blood, his skin is now made of rocks, has become deaf and is also a were creature that turns into a giant leech which has robot parts and feathers.
Your warband is now led by the dwarf wizard, cue more table rolling ah fun times

- Units physically running away from failed morale. The rules were terrible and unintuitive all around, but I feel like you could make them work with standard of rules writing GW has reached now.
- Pinning/going to ground. Badly implemented in the past as well, but being able to suppress enemy infantry without killing it is mostly missing from the game, and being able to react to enemy shooting outside of stratagems would be nice as well.
- Wrecks and craters. I miss having the battlefield littered with destroyed tanks and hiding in craters from my own transports/destroyed enemies.
- Assault vehicles. Be it orks, dark eldar or landraiders. Just allow units to disembark from them after moving, but disallow the disembarked unit to move any further in the movement phase. I doubt this change would break anything and would help a great number of weak units.
- I really liked the SAG mishap table, though back then is never was powerful enough to warrant the risk. Maybe a combination of the SSAG relic and the old oddball mishaps would result in the perfect version of the SAG: Powerful, but it can hilariously go wrong. I miss those 60" charges.
- A really recent one, the bubblechukka mini-game where you took turns with your opponent to decide its stats. For some reason that stroke of genius was removed with the codex.

In 4th edition, Codex Orks had a rule that an Ork character was not allowed to take both a Warbike and Mega-Armour, because he would probably fall off a lot.

Guess what Wazdakka had in 2nd edition? Mega-Armour on a Warbike. Not just any old Warbike though; the Bike of The Aporkalypse had a Battle Cannon on it.

Of course, putting a Leman Russ-sized weapon on such a small chassis was not without consequences, and so the bike was 'pushed' back D6" each time it fired, due to the massive recoil.

All the 1st edition ORK rules, warbikes having a 2” wide 72” long fire corridor that would randomly veer off 45 degrees. Schorchas having a 4d6” long 4” wide flame. Not knowing how many Waaagh points would blow up the head of your weirdboy, the 9 tables of mad boy behaviour. Most things in your army being as happily to kill your own troops as anyone else’s. I had a kustom nob bike, with a speed freak driver that had a top speed of 60”. Every game I would set it up just for it to accelerate off the table on turn one. Still brought it every game though.

All these people wanting to win at all costs should try that army out.

Shock attack guns drowning terminators in snotling pee.

Shokk attack guns accidentally teleporting the Mek into combat with the target.

Andykp wrote:All the 1st edition ORK rules, warbikes having a 2” wide 72” long fire corridor that would randomly veer off 45 degrees. Schorchas having a 4d6” long 4” wide flame. Not knowing how many Waaagh points would blow up the head of your weirdboy, the 9 tables of mad boy behaviour. Most things in your army being as happily to kill your own troops as anyone else’s. I had a kustom nob bike, with a speed freak driver that had a top speed of 60”. Every game I would set it up just for it to accelerate off the table on turn one. Still brought it every game though.

All these people wanting to win at all costs should try that army out.

Flinty wrote:Shock attack guns drowning terminators in snotling pee.

AnomanderRake wrote:Shokk attack guns accidentally teleporting the Mek into combat with the target.

These are all reasons RT is the best version of 40k...don't agree....fight me for it!

7th Edition 30k rules had the Ordinatus Ulator, which had one of the most insane weapons in either 30k or 40k.

It used a 7" Blast, but instead of simply placing the blast and scattering as normal, you simply placed it at the tip of the weapon and moved it forward, either to 72" or the table edge. Anything underneath the template takes a hit, strength depending on the type of unit; Infantry for example take a S5 Ap-2 hit, while Superheavies take a Destroyer blow.

It's the only weapon in the game can never miss anything it shoots at. At all. As long as the first unit hit is an enemy unit, your Invisibility, Aircraft, or any other Snap Shot rule cannot stop it.

Racerguy180 wrote:
...These are all reasons RT is the best version of 40k...don't agree....fight me for it!

SAG teleporting the Mek was around in 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th as well, mind.

Not sure I have enough data to say "best", having never played RT, but I've been reading the rulebooks a lot as source material for a retro-Inquisimunda project, and it's definitely packed full of entertaining stuff.

I think it has no place in the game today, but the Harlequin's kiss used to one-shot *anything* that failed its save against it (excepting vehicles). However, the Harlequin had to make a roll to safely extract the weapon from the victim, or be stuck.

Very silly.

I did love old Vortex Grenades, though, that just sent everything in the radius to hell. I remember back when Armor Cast was US-based, and the developer was testing out some ridiculous Tyranid creature. His opponent threw a Vortex grenade at it, and he made up rules on the spot about why it was too big to die to that XD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Valkyrie wrote:
It's the only weapon in the game can never miss anything it shoots at. At all. As long as the first unit hit is an enemy unit, your Invisibility, Aircraft, or any other Snap Shot rule cannot stop it.

Old Zzap guns never missed either.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
...These are all reasons RT is the best version of 40k...don't agree....fight me for it!

SAG teleporting the Mek was around in 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th as well, mind.

Not sure I have enough data to say "best", having never played RT, but I've been reading the rulebooks a lot as source material for a retro-Inquisimunda project, and it's definitely packed full of entertaining stuff.

RT was insanity made manifest on a tabletop. The random stuff that happened always made for an interesting game.

 Valkyrie wrote:
7th Edition 30k rules had the Ordinatus Ulator, which had one of the most insane weapons in either 30k or 40k.

It used a 7" Blast, but instead of simply placing the blast and scattering as normal, you simply placed it at the tip of the weapon and moved it forward, either to 72" or the table edge. Anything underneath the template takes a hit, strength depending on the type of unit; Infantry for example take a S5 Ap-2 hit, while Superheavies take a Destroyer blow.

It's the only weapon in the game can never miss anything it shoots at. At all. As long as the first unit hit is an enemy unit, your Invisibility, Aircraft, or any other Snap Shot rule cannot stop it.

Rules like this are so much fun. I wonder if we'll ever see a return to rules based on fluff and flavor instead of accessibility and balance.

Speaking of rules I kinda miss...Challenges. "One per combat" no, but there was something neat about getting characters into duels with one another.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Speaking of rules I kinda miss...Challenges. "One per combat" no, but there was something neat about getting characters into duels with one another.

The IDEA was cool.

In practice, didn't work so hot.

But that honestly describes a LOT of GW stuff. Cool, but poorly implemented.

Challenges work great in 30k where the relationships between Ap/Sv, WS, and I are more tightly controlled. The problem in 6e/7e 40k is that the way they chose to write stats any character from Codex A would always kill any character from Codex B in a round or two, so unless you had a mirror match the challenge was pretty much always a foregone conclusion.

Build a Dreadnought rules from the Rogue Trader era.

I’ve had the book they’re in for the best part of a years (collected a complete set last year, and regret it not one iota), and still can’t properly figure them out.

And of course programming rules for Imperial Robots. They’re more than enough to make you go cross eyed and have a nosebleed.

2nd Ed? Skimmers having pop-up attacks, allowing them to hide behind terrain and still blat stuff.

Pop up was fun

 Valkyrie wrote:
7th Edition 30k rules had the Ordinatus Ulator, which had one of the most insane weapons in either 30k or 40k.

It used a 7" Blast, but instead of simply placing the blast and scattering as normal, you simply placed it at the tip of the weapon and moved it forward, either to 72" or the table edge. Anything underneath the template takes a hit, strength depending on the type of unit; Infantry for example take a S5 Ap-2 hit, while Superheavies take a Destroyer blow.

It's the only weapon in the game can never miss anything it shoots at. At all. As long as the first unit hit is an enemy unit, your Invisibility, Aircraft, or any other Snap Shot rule cannot stop it.

2nd Ed Hellhound had similar, as did Epic Wave Serpents (and I’m sure a few others?)

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
...2nd Ed Hellhound had similar, as did Epic Wave Serpents (and I’m sure a few others?)

Beam psychic powers in 7th, The Furnace's Heart (Vulkan's unique 30k doom laser pistol), and the Legion Glaive. None of them could hit aircraft, though.

Oh, back in Epic and 2nd ed WD, there were *three* Chimera Variants. The Chimerro had a rack of 6 Hunter-Killer Missiles, the Chimerax had a TL-Autocannon, and the Chimedon had a Battle Cannon.

Yup.

I know I already posted about necrons phase out rule, but I thought of another mechanic that I really enjoyed.

Templates. God I miss templates. There is something awesome in having this big green plastic wafer and seeing the horror in your opponents eyes when they realize that the small blast template covers their whole squad because the forgot about spacing XD

Especially flamer templates. I HATE the new rules for flamers, X+Y damage is SO BORING! I want to be able to try and shenanigan as many models as I can under that sexy green cone again.

God help you if you were playing OG Apoc and someone brought out the apocalyptic blast template. Plopping pie plates (or pizza boxes... whatever) down on the table is just so... satisfying lol

There was an obscure rule in 3rd edition where if you immobilized a vehicle twice, all turret and sponson weapons froze in place in the direction they last shot.

I had players that were veteran players that thought that wasn't a rule.


And who could forget models that had mind control powers. I used that a couple times to make a Vindicare Assassin jump from the top of a tower to his injury/death.

crazysaneman wrote:
I know I already posted about necrons phase out rule, but I thought of another mechanic that I really enjoyed.

Templates. God I miss templates. There is something awesome in having this big green plastic wafer and seeing the horror in your opponents eyes when they realize that the small blast template covers their whole squad because the forgot about spacing XD

Especially flamer templates. I HATE the new rules for flamers, X+Y damage is SO BORING! I want to be able to try and shenanigan as many models as I can under that sexy green cone again.

God help you if you were playing OG Apoc and someone brought out the apocalyptic blast template. Plopping pie plates (or pizza boxes... whatever) down on the table is just so... satisfying lol

I have a guy at my National Guard unit that started 3rd with me despite having started back in 7th, and he prefers templates.

I loved the Acts of Faith mechanic from the Ordo Xenos Codex. Sororitas troops were very mediocre at the time, but the army generated Faith Points, based on its composition and these could be used for pretty powerful Acts of Faith effects. In a way it was similar to current stratagems. It was purely based on player agency and choice and was very flavourful.

Unfortunately, later GW managed to dumb it down, GW-way, tying Faith Point generation to a dice roll (because there's never too much random chance, we all know 40K players apparently prefer rolling dice to making decisions) and the menu of options has been eliminated by giving a specific AoF option to each Sororitas unit (because it seems giving players choices and options is bad, decisions make brains boil and that's to be avoided in a 40k game).

I think you mean the Witch Hunters (Heriticus) Codex, Cyel - Alien Hunters (which is what Ordo Xenos are) never got released in 3rd.

Which was a shame.

That's right, Hereticus - Witch Hunters, obviously!

Lash of Submission.

Psychic Power allowing you to move your opponent's units.

Not the most exotic and actually fairly basic ("Double Lash" was a popular meta-list for a while). But concept of moving an opponent's model in any way, shape or form appears to have disappeared completely.

artific3r wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
7th Edition 30k rules had the Ordinatus Ulator, which had one of the most insane weapons in either 30k or 40k.

It used a 7" Blast, but instead of simply placing the blast and scattering as normal, you simply placed it at the tip of the weapon and moved it forward, either to 72" or the table edge. Anything underneath the template takes a hit, strength depending on the type of unit; Infantry for example take a S5 Ap-2 hit, while Superheavies take a Destroyer blow.

It's the only weapon in the game can never miss anything it shoots at. At all. As long as the first unit hit is an enemy unit, your Invisibility, Aircraft, or any other Snap Shot rule cannot stop it.

Rules like this are so much fun. I wonder if we'll ever see a return to rules based on fluff and flavor instead of accessibility and balance.

Same here, I miss when units had unique mechanics instead of just "causes Mortal Wounds".

GSC didn't use blips. Instead you had a table you would roll on for units that determined where they could deploy. If you were really lucky you would get a unit that could deploy and then immediately could shoot before the game even started. Sometimes this could be within the enemy backline.

In the 5th ed Necron book Entropic Strike could permanently reduce Armor Value on vehicles or had a chance to remove a models armor save (which basically never happened). This made scarab units terrifying if they actually made it into melee.

Tyrannids Sporocyst had to shoot its weapons like a vehicle even though it was a monster. So you had to figure out which weapon could see what unit in its firing arc before shooting its 5 weapons. Problem is that the Sporocyst is immobile so it couldn't even rotate for better firing lines.

Cyel wrote:
I loved the Acts of Faith mechanic from the Ordo Xenos Codex. Sororitas troops were very mediocre at the time, but the army generated Faith Points, based on its composition and these could be used for pretty powerful Acts of Faith effects. In a way it was similar to current stratagems. It was purely based on player agency and choice and was very flavourful.

Unfortunately, later GW managed to dumb it down, GW-way, tying Faith Point generation to a dice roll (because there's never too much random chance, we all know 40K players apparently prefer rolling dice to making decisions) and the menu of options has been eliminated by giving a specific AoF option to each Sororitas unit (because it seems giving players choices and options is bad, decisions make brains boil and that's to be avoided in a 40k game).

I also miss my Witch Hunters codex. So many fluffy options that added character (I still miss my Jump Pack Canoness w/ Eviscerator).

Then the Acts of Faith being specific to each unit was less enjoyable, but rending Heavy Bolter Retributors killing AV14 was always a good time. Along with the never staying dead Saint Celetine great for the LOLs.

 Flinty wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:

At the start of the battle all Blood Angels units had to roll to see if they succumbed to the Red Thirst and/or Black Rage, your Death Company squad was a compulsory unit comprised of any models that 'failed' their roll.

Hah, I played BAs at that time. It was the main reason you took the sergeant upgrade in all your squads, because if that squad delivered a black ranger, they got a free power weapon

I think the most 9verly complicated rule that was based on some kind 9f realistic thing was the early vehicle targeting rules where you had to hit, then put a transparent overlay on a picture of the part of the vehicle you wanted to try and hit then roll.scatter on the diagram... you could proceed to miss the thing you had just hit, bit it Lso let you do pinpoint strikes against specific components. Nice idea for those who like super detailed resolution, but dear lord it was time consuming.and has no place in a game with more than 1 vehicle per side.

Pedant alert: You didn't "miss the thing you had just hit", because this entire procedure replaced the to-hit roll (your BS could be used to move the aim point back after you'd scattered). Also, this was 1st edition; most games didn't have more than one vehicle per side.

The 1st edition Orks were lumbered with loads and loads of special rules...
Warbikes didn't shoot normally; instead they had a 2" wide fire corridor. The first thing in that corridor was a target; if that thing was destroyed, the next thing is hit, etc. Oh, and when you declared a shot, but before determining the fire corridor, the bike had a 1 in 3 chance of swerving 45degrees off course.
Shokk attack guns had 8 pages of rules. 10 pages for bionics, 8 for post-battle actions (who ever used those?), 6 pages for Weirdboyz, 11 for Madboyz (including rolling on a chart to find out which other chart to roll on!), 4 pages for Mekboyz (involving the opposing player playing malfunction cards on the Orks, and the Mek playing repair cards to cancel them out) and a few more pages for kustom vehicles and weapons. Gork and Mork alone know how Ork players got anything done. Earlier nonsense could be excused because 1st edition 40k as described in the rulebook was more akin to Necromunda or Kill Team, but by the time the Orks books came out, it had changed into a "proper" wargame with dozens of models per side.

I miss pinning. I would love if they could bring back (in a very small degree) a pinning style weapon to make leadership something viable. Even if its something like "spend 1CP weapons with the pinning rule can cause a unit to take a leadership test and not be able to move if they fail"

Make sure the weapons aren't common and not exactly high level choices. Mortars are a classic, but armies like Dark Eldar and Night Lords should have the bulk of them since its more of their "style" and would play well with their core concepts.

I agree, I'd love pinning to return.

I quite liked the immersive rules like pinning and going to ground but especially vehicle rules like wrecked. Removing destroyed vehicles just feels slightly empty now that they don't stay in the battle as a terrain feature.

I loved the old 4/5th edition Bladestorm rule for Dire Avengers, firing twice and not being able to fire the next turn was really cool because narratively they've blown all their ammo and are reloading. 40 shots from a 10 man DA squad was great with good old Doom and Guide.

I miss Target Priority from 4th edition. For those that were not playing back then, each unit was required to pass a Leadership test in order to fire at an enemy unit that was not the closest to them. While yes, it did arguably slow the game down, the rule made total sense to me and highlighted the differences between a more disciplined (ex. Space Marines) or robotic (ex. Necrons) force versus a less disciplined (ex. Imperial Guard) or more unorganized force (ex. Orks). These days the LD stat is pretty much meaningless but back in the day it actually came into play quite often.

 Gnarlly wrote:
I miss Target Priority from 4th edition. For those that were not playing back then, each unit was required to pass a Leadership test in order to fire at an enemy unit that was not the closest to them. While yes, it did arguably slow the game down, the rule made total sense to me and highlighted the differences between a more disciplined (ex. Space Marines) or robotic (ex. Necrons) force versus a less disciplined (ex. Imperial Guard) or more unorganized force (ex. Orks). These days the LD stat is pretty much meaningless but back in the day it actually came into play quite often.

The funny part is at the time we all hated it but now, especially with the smaller battlefield, this would really change how the game works on a tactical scale and make having LD bubbles and other types of officer type characters floating around an integral part of the army. It makes sense that people shoot the closest model unless ordered to do so otherwise unless its a supremely disciplined force. Things like smite and servitor terrain guns still partially follow this rule so its not even unheard of for the edition rules.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Lash of Submission.

Psychic Power allowing you to move your opponent's units.

Not the most exotic and actually fairly basic ("Double Lash" was a popular meta-list for a while). But concept of moving an opponent's model in any way, shape or form appears to have disappeared completely.

Coming from someone who LOVED 5th edition and plays Chaos (and won several tournaments with Double-Lash...), there's a reason they got rid of moving other people's models. It's a pretty big Negative Play Experience for your opponent. It was fun to use, but it was also way too easy to use. Especially in a game more centered around objective play, getting rid of the ability to move your opponent's models is a good thing.

My only exception to the above is Tank Shock. You shouldn't be able to screen a tank with basic infantry. If I'm in a Vindicator with a Dozer Blade, I should be able to drive THROUGH your lines. Get out of the way or die!

Lash of Submission really showed a bit of a designer disconnect - lots of people don't want strangers touching their nicely painted miniatures, and I'm afraid some double lash users were less than socially aware about this.

I do remember playing against it though and having my Boyz formed into perfectly pie plate shaped clumps to be blasted by chaos vindictors or defilers. I imagined the Daemon Prince had conjured something really shiny in the middle of the battlefield and they were all clumped around it.

Agree with pinning, it has a nice strategy value.

Remember how Marbo could reliably show up and throw a S10 AP2 big pie demo charge. This could wipe out a terminator unit.

I only had the codex for a while but I remember that Eldar character who could throw her spear at S8 and kill a tank easily.

Deepstrike scatter and mishap on terrain. I had a flying hive tyrant impale itself on a tower.

Death or glory, die or stop the tank.

In 7th, I had a Tyranid Crone fly over a space marine squad to use its spiky tail attack.
My opponent at the time decided it was best to use his captain with a shield to have more chance of success.
Told him S8 means instant death but he tried and died anyway. Best use of my crone yet.

Old one eye getting back up infinitely on a 4+. If you fail, try again next turn.

The last few posts have reminded me of how much I enjoyed the armouries of each codex.

You could upgrade your Tactical Squad Sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant, and while he got an extra attack he could also access the armoury. It contained the standard weapon upgrades, but also more fluffy choices such as Bionics (ignore wounds on a 6+), Purity Seals (roll an extra D6 and choose which one to use when falling back) and Auspex (get a free shot at Infiltrators set up within 4D6").

It really bummed me out when they got rid of this, then they phased out the Guard and Chaos equivalents, then the rest followed. While they've brought them back somewhat with Relics and Special-Issue Wargear it's not as good IMO.

 Valkyrie wrote:
The last few posts have reminded me of how much I enjoyed the armouries of each codex.

You could upgrade your Tactical Squad Sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant, and while he got an extra attack he could also access the armoury. It contained the standard weapon upgrades, but also more fluffy choices such as Bionics (ignore wounds on a 6+), Purity Seals (roll an extra D6 and choose which one to use when falling back) and Auspex (get a free shot at Infiltrators set up within 4D6").

It really bummed me out when they got rid of this, then they phased out the Guard and Chaos equivalents, then the rest followed. While they've brought them back somewhat with Relics and Special-Issue Wargear it's not as good IMO.

My favorite parts from old armories was Black Templar's Holy Hand Grenade and their ability to but a Techmarine into terminator armor

I guess that got phased out with "no models, no rules".

I really miss the vehicle facing rules. There was something that felt so strategic about finding a way to protect flanks.

IIRC there was a Tau strat in late 6th or early 7th that let them ignore facings and I remember thinking that it was such a broken mechanic

Oh how I miss Old Zogwort!
He had a psychic power that could taget any model and -if manifested- would force you and your opponent to roll off. If Zogwort rolled higher, the opposing model would be turned into a squigg. No saves, no nothing. <3
But unfortunately he didn't have a model, so GW got rid of him.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
I really miss the vehicle facing rules. There was something that felt so strategic about finding a way to protect flanks.

IIRC there was a Tau strat in late 6th or early 7th that let them ignore facings and I remember thinking that it was such a broken mechanic

It was a formation of Stealthsuits and Ghostkeels. Later 7th, I think.

This is relatively minor but in 3.5 CSM book chosen squads could include one aspiring sorcerer. Just a neat rule to add flavor especially for Tzeentch armies. Would be cool to bring back just use similar rules to rubric marines.

Speaking of the 3.5 Chaos Codex, that was the last time that Possessed had a unique niche since you could buy their mutations and other powers as point-upgrades, instead of having to randomly generate them.

You could end up with an entire squad of flying Possessed Sorcerers of Tzeentch, all capable of turning your dudes into Spawn.

Of course, 4th ed onwards went back to "they have a random power. Chaos is Fickle."

xeen wrote:This is relatively minor but in 3.5 CSM book chosen squads could include one aspiring sorcerer. Just a neat rule to add flavor especially for Tzeentch armies. Would be cool to bring back just use similar rules to rubric marines.

MagicJuggler wrote:Speaking of the 3.5 Chaos Codex, that was the last time that Possessed had a unique niche since you could buy their mutations and other powers as point-upgrades, instead of having to randomly generate them.

You could end up with an entire squad of flying Possessed Sorcerers of Tzeentch, all capable of turning your dudes into Spawn.

Of course, 4th ed onwards went back to "they have a random power. Chaos is Fickle."

Wow. I thought I had run out of reasons to hate Chaos 3.5, I guess I was wrong...

 Kall3m0n wrote:
Oh how I miss Old Zogwort!
He had a psychic power that could taget any model and -if manifested- would force you and your opponent to roll off. If Zogwort rolled higher, the opposing model would be turned into a squigg. No saves, no nothing. <3
But unfortunately he didn't have a model, so GW got rid of him.

The ork player also needed to provide the squig model, as stated in the codex .

 Blackie wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
Oh how I miss Old Zogwort!
He had a psychic power that could taget any model and -if manifested- would force you and your opponent to roll off. If Zogwort rolled higher, the opposing model would be turned into a squigg. No saves, no nothing. <3
But unfortunately he didn't have a model, so GW got rid of him.

The ork player also needed to provide the squig model, as stated in the codex .

What happened if you didn't have a squig model? Did the power fail, or could you just not use it?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
Oh how I miss Old Zogwort!
He had a psychic power that could taget any model and -if manifested- would force you and your opponent to roll off. If Zogwort rolled higher, the opposing model would be turned into a squigg. No saves, no nothing. <3
But unfortunately he didn't have a model, so GW got rid of him.

The ork player also needed to provide the squig model, as stated in the codex .

What happened if you didn't have a squig model? Did the power fail, or could you just not use it?

model was just slain i believe... or was it you couldn0t use the power?
I don't know anymore , probably should look at my old dex.

I think you couldn't use the power, because the squig would normally be controlled by the models previous owner still, not having a squig would deny them a model.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I think you couldn't use the power, because the squig would normally be controlled by the models previous owner still, not having a squig would deny them a model.

This, I believe. Providing a squig for the opponent was stated in the datasheet. If you don't have a model with missile launcher in your tactical squad you can't equip one dude with a missile launcher and play as it had one.

Of course people proxy all the time, so that would apply only on WYSIWYG games, such as tournament matches.

I wonder nobody has mentioned the vehicle construction rules from 3rd edition yet. While you could easily abuse them, they were also the tool to get creative conversions into the game. Same for the Tyranid creature construction rules shortly after. Good stuff!

I also to this day think fondly of the 5th edition Daemons codex and its unique deployment rules. You had to split your army in half (counting by units), and had to pick the one that was supposed to be deployed normally at the beginning of the game. The other half would be deployed using the deepstrike rules over the course of the game. The twist? You rolled a dice at the beginning of the game - and only got your choice 2/3 of the time. In one of three games you got the other half deployed first (with the rest in reserves) instead. Made for some interesting decisions, unless you wanted to go mirrored halves (boring!).

And last, but not least: templates! Neither that interesting nor unusual, but worth mentioning because they make games so much more immersive to me. How a unit is spread out suddenly matters, so does the location of any flamer weapon. The current way of "X hits added" just does not do it for me.

 Just Tony wrote:

xeen wrote:This is relatively minor but in 3.5 CSM book chosen squads could include one aspiring sorcerer. Just a neat rule to add flavor especially for Tzeentch armies. Would be cool to bring back just use similar rules to rubric marines.

MagicJuggler wrote:Speaking of the 3.5 Chaos Codex, that was the last time that Possessed had a unique niche since you could buy their mutations and other powers as point-upgrades, instead of having to randomly generate them.

You could end up with an entire squad of flying Possessed Sorcerers of Tzeentch, all capable of turning your dudes into Spawn.

Of course, 4th ed onwards went back to "they have a random power. Chaos is Fickle."

Wow. I thought I had run out of reasons to hate Chaos 3.5, I guess I was wrong...

What's wrong with having a unit 180 models strong (where only 20 of them are Marines)?

Don't worry though, in that codex, the army with two wounds had a lot going for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Darnok wrote:
I wonder nobody has mentioned the vehicle construction rules from 3rd edition yet. While you could easily abuse them, they were also the tool to get creative conversions into the game. Same for the Tyranid creature construction rules shortly after. Good stuff!

Good one someone made in the VDR was Ork Binz, which were armour 9 all round walkers made from oil drums.

Then you had the ridiculous one from the Nid one, which thankfully was never made- a local player theorised a Gargantuan creature called "The Turd", which was a few inches long but 48" wide, so it covered the width of the board at the local GW. The rest of the Nid army would advance up behind it, immune to shooting until The Turd had been killed.