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Cyel wrote:
I loved the Acts of Faith mechanic from the Ordo Xenos Codex. Sororitas troops were very mediocre at the time, but the army generated Faith Points, based on its composition and these could be used for pretty powerful Acts of Faith effects. In a way it was similar to current stratagems. It was purely based on player agency and choice and was very flavourful.

Unfortunately, later GW managed to dumb it down, GW-way, tying Faith Point generation to a dice roll (because there's never too much random chance, we all know 40K players apparently prefer rolling dice to making decisions) and the menu of options has been eliminated by giving a specific AoF option to each Sororitas unit (because it seems giving players choices and options is bad, decisions make brains boil and that's to be avoided in a 40k game).

I also miss my Witch Hunters codex. So many fluffy options that added character (I still miss my Jump Pack Canoness w/ Eviscerator).

Then the Acts of Faith being specific to each unit was less enjoyable, but rending Heavy Bolter Retributors killing AV14 was always a good time. Along with the never staying dead Saint Celetine great for the LOLs.

 Flinty wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:

At the start of the battle all Blood Angels units had to roll to see if they succumbed to the Red Thirst and/or Black Rage, your Death Company squad was a compulsory unit comprised of any models that 'failed' their roll.

Hah, I played BAs at that time. It was the main reason you took the sergeant upgrade in all your squads, because if that squad delivered a black ranger, they got a free power weapon

I think the most 9verly complicated rule that was based on some kind 9f realistic thing was the early vehicle targeting rules where you had to hit, then put a transparent overlay on a picture of the part of the vehicle you wanted to try and hit then roll.scatter on the diagram... you could proceed to miss the thing you had just hit, bit it Lso let you do pinpoint strikes against specific components. Nice idea for those who like super detailed resolution, but dear lord it was time consuming.and has no place in a game with more than 1 vehicle per side.

Pedant alert: You didn't "miss the thing you had just hit", because this entire procedure replaced the to-hit roll (your BS could be used to move the aim point back after you'd scattered). Also, this was 1st edition; most games didn't have more than one vehicle per side.

The 1st edition Orks were lumbered with loads and loads of special rules...
Warbikes didn't shoot normally; instead they had a 2" wide fire corridor. The first thing in that corridor was a target; if that thing was destroyed, the next thing is hit, etc. Oh, and when you declared a shot, but before determining the fire corridor, the bike had a 1 in 3 chance of swerving 45degrees off course.
Shokk attack guns had 8 pages of rules. 10 pages for bionics, 8 for post-battle actions (who ever used those?), 6 pages for Weirdboyz, 11 for Madboyz (including rolling on a chart to find out which other chart to roll on!), 4 pages for Mekboyz (involving the opposing player playing malfunction cards on the Orks, and the Mek playing repair cards to cancel them out) and a few more pages for kustom vehicles and weapons. Gork and Mork alone know how Ork players got anything done. Earlier nonsense could be excused because 1st edition 40k as described in the rulebook was more akin to Necromunda or Kill Team, but by the time the Orks books came out, it had changed into a "proper" wargame with dozens of models per side.

I miss pinning. I would love if they could bring back (in a very small degree) a pinning style weapon to make leadership something viable. Even if its something like "spend 1CP weapons with the pinning rule can cause a unit to take a leadership test and not be able to move if they fail"

Make sure the weapons aren't common and not exactly high level choices. Mortars are a classic, but armies like Dark Eldar and Night Lords should have the bulk of them since its more of their "style" and would play well with their core concepts.

I agree, I'd love pinning to return.

I quite liked the immersive rules like pinning and going to ground but especially vehicle rules like wrecked. Removing destroyed vehicles just feels slightly empty now that they don't stay in the battle as a terrain feature.

I loved the old 4/5th edition Bladestorm rule for Dire Avengers, firing twice and not being able to fire the next turn was really cool because narratively they've blown all their ammo and are reloading. 40 shots from a 10 man DA squad was great with good old Doom and Guide.

I miss Target Priority from 4th edition. For those that were not playing back then, each unit was required to pass a Leadership test in order to fire at an enemy unit that was not the closest to them. While yes, it did arguably slow the game down, the rule made total sense to me and highlighted the differences between a more disciplined (ex. Space Marines) or robotic (ex. Necrons) force versus a less disciplined (ex. Imperial Guard) or more unorganized force (ex. Orks). These days the LD stat is pretty much meaningless but back in the day it actually came into play quite often.

 Gnarlly wrote:
I miss Target Priority from 4th edition. For those that were not playing back then, each unit was required to pass a Leadership test in order to fire at an enemy unit that was not the closest to them. While yes, it did arguably slow the game down, the rule made total sense to me and highlighted the differences between a more disciplined (ex. Space Marines) or robotic (ex. Necrons) force versus a less disciplined (ex. Imperial Guard) or more unorganized force (ex. Orks). These days the LD stat is pretty much meaningless but back in the day it actually came into play quite often.

The funny part is at the time we all hated it but now, especially with the smaller battlefield, this would really change how the game works on a tactical scale and make having LD bubbles and other types of officer type characters floating around an integral part of the army. It makes sense that people shoot the closest model unless ordered to do so otherwise unless its a supremely disciplined force. Things like smite and servitor terrain guns still partially follow this rule so its not even unheard of for the edition rules.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Lash of Submission.

Psychic Power allowing you to move your opponent's units.

Not the most exotic and actually fairly basic ("Double Lash" was a popular meta-list for a while). But concept of moving an opponent's model in any way, shape or form appears to have disappeared completely.

Coming from someone who LOVED 5th edition and plays Chaos (and won several tournaments with Double-Lash...), there's a reason they got rid of moving other people's models. It's a pretty big Negative Play Experience for your opponent. It was fun to use, but it was also way too easy to use. Especially in a game more centered around objective play, getting rid of the ability to move your opponent's models is a good thing.

My only exception to the above is Tank Shock. You shouldn't be able to screen a tank with basic infantry. If I'm in a Vindicator with a Dozer Blade, I should be able to drive THROUGH your lines. Get out of the way or die!

Lash of Submission really showed a bit of a designer disconnect - lots of people don't want strangers touching their nicely painted miniatures, and I'm afraid some double lash users were less than socially aware about this.

I do remember playing against it though and having my Boyz formed into perfectly pie plate shaped clumps to be blasted by chaos vindictors or defilers. I imagined the Daemon Prince had conjured something really shiny in the middle of the battlefield and they were all clumped around it.

Agree with pinning, it has a nice strategy value.

Remember how Marbo could reliably show up and throw a S10 AP2 big pie demo charge. This could wipe out a terminator unit.

I only had the codex for a while but I remember that Eldar character who could throw her spear at S8 and kill a tank easily.

Deepstrike scatter and mishap on terrain. I had a flying hive tyrant impale itself on a tower.

Death or glory, die or stop the tank.

In 7th, I had a Tyranid Crone fly over a space marine squad to use its spiky tail attack.
My opponent at the time decided it was best to use his captain with a shield to have more chance of success.
Told him S8 means instant death but he tried and died anyway. Best use of my crone yet.

Old one eye getting back up infinitely on a 4+. If you fail, try again next turn.

The last few posts have reminded me of how much I enjoyed the armouries of each codex.

You could upgrade your Tactical Squad Sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant, and while he got an extra attack he could also access the armoury. It contained the standard weapon upgrades, but also more fluffy choices such as Bionics (ignore wounds on a 6+), Purity Seals (roll an extra D6 and choose which one to use when falling back) and Auspex (get a free shot at Infiltrators set up within 4D6").

It really bummed me out when they got rid of this, then they phased out the Guard and Chaos equivalents, then the rest followed. While they've brought them back somewhat with Relics and Special-Issue Wargear it's not as good IMO.

 Valkyrie wrote:
The last few posts have reminded me of how much I enjoyed the armouries of each codex.

You could upgrade your Tactical Squad Sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant, and while he got an extra attack he could also access the armoury. It contained the standard weapon upgrades, but also more fluffy choices such as Bionics (ignore wounds on a 6+), Purity Seals (roll an extra D6 and choose which one to use when falling back) and Auspex (get a free shot at Infiltrators set up within 4D6").

It really bummed me out when they got rid of this, then they phased out the Guard and Chaos equivalents, then the rest followed. While they've brought them back somewhat with Relics and Special-Issue Wargear it's not as good IMO.

My favorite parts from old armories was Black Templar's Holy Hand Grenade and their ability to but a Techmarine into terminator armor

I guess that got phased out with "no models, no rules".

I really miss the vehicle facing rules. There was something that felt so strategic about finding a way to protect flanks.

IIRC there was a Tau strat in late 6th or early 7th that let them ignore facings and I remember thinking that it was such a broken mechanic

Oh how I miss Old Zogwort!
He had a psychic power that could taget any model and -if manifested- would force you and your opponent to roll off. If Zogwort rolled higher, the opposing model would be turned into a squigg. No saves, no nothing. <3
But unfortunately he didn't have a model, so GW got rid of him.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
I really miss the vehicle facing rules. There was something that felt so strategic about finding a way to protect flanks.

IIRC there was a Tau strat in late 6th or early 7th that let them ignore facings and I remember thinking that it was such a broken mechanic

It was a formation of Stealthsuits and Ghostkeels. Later 7th, I think.

This is relatively minor but in 3.5 CSM book chosen squads could include one aspiring sorcerer. Just a neat rule to add flavor especially for Tzeentch armies. Would be cool to bring back just use similar rules to rubric marines.

Speaking of the 3.5 Chaos Codex, that was the last time that Possessed had a unique niche since you could buy their mutations and other powers as point-upgrades, instead of having to randomly generate them.

You could end up with an entire squad of flying Possessed Sorcerers of Tzeentch, all capable of turning your dudes into Spawn.

Of course, 4th ed onwards went back to "they have a random power. Chaos is Fickle."

xeen wrote:This is relatively minor but in 3.5 CSM book chosen squads could include one aspiring sorcerer. Just a neat rule to add flavor especially for Tzeentch armies. Would be cool to bring back just use similar rules to rubric marines.

MagicJuggler wrote:Speaking of the 3.5 Chaos Codex, that was the last time that Possessed had a unique niche since you could buy their mutations and other powers as point-upgrades, instead of having to randomly generate them.

You could end up with an entire squad of flying Possessed Sorcerers of Tzeentch, all capable of turning your dudes into Spawn.

Of course, 4th ed onwards went back to "they have a random power. Chaos is Fickle."

Wow. I thought I had run out of reasons to hate Chaos 3.5, I guess I was wrong...

 Kall3m0n wrote:
Oh how I miss Old Zogwort!
He had a psychic power that could taget any model and -if manifested- would force you and your opponent to roll off. If Zogwort rolled higher, the opposing model would be turned into a squigg. No saves, no nothing. <3
But unfortunately he didn't have a model, so GW got rid of him.

The ork player also needed to provide the squig model, as stated in the codex .

 Blackie wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
Oh how I miss Old Zogwort!
He had a psychic power that could taget any model and -if manifested- would force you and your opponent to roll off. If Zogwort rolled higher, the opposing model would be turned into a squigg. No saves, no nothing. <3
But unfortunately he didn't have a model, so GW got rid of him.

The ork player also needed to provide the squig model, as stated in the codex .

What happened if you didn't have a squig model? Did the power fail, or could you just not use it?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
Oh how I miss Old Zogwort!
He had a psychic power that could taget any model and -if manifested- would force you and your opponent to roll off. If Zogwort rolled higher, the opposing model would be turned into a squigg. No saves, no nothing. <3
But unfortunately he didn't have a model, so GW got rid of him.

The ork player also needed to provide the squig model, as stated in the codex .

What happened if you didn't have a squig model? Did the power fail, or could you just not use it?

model was just slain i believe... or was it you couldn0t use the power?
I don't know anymore , probably should look at my old dex.

I think you couldn't use the power, because the squig would normally be controlled by the models previous owner still, not having a squig would deny them a model.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I think you couldn't use the power, because the squig would normally be controlled by the models previous owner still, not having a squig would deny them a model.

This, I believe. Providing a squig for the opponent was stated in the datasheet. If you don't have a model with missile launcher in your tactical squad you can't equip one dude with a missile launcher and play as it had one.

Of course people proxy all the time, so that would apply only on WYSIWYG games, such as tournament matches.

I wonder nobody has mentioned the vehicle construction rules from 3rd edition yet. While you could easily abuse them, they were also the tool to get creative conversions into the game. Same for the Tyranid creature construction rules shortly after. Good stuff!

I also to this day think fondly of the 5th edition Daemons codex and its unique deployment rules. You had to split your army in half (counting by units), and had to pick the one that was supposed to be deployed normally at the beginning of the game. The other half would be deployed using the deepstrike rules over the course of the game. The twist? You rolled a dice at the beginning of the game - and only got your choice 2/3 of the time. In one of three games you got the other half deployed first (with the rest in reserves) instead. Made for some interesting decisions, unless you wanted to go mirrored halves (boring!).

And last, but not least: templates! Neither that interesting nor unusual, but worth mentioning because they make games so much more immersive to me. How a unit is spread out suddenly matters, so does the location of any flamer weapon. The current way of "X hits added" just does not do it for me.

 Just Tony wrote:

xeen wrote:This is relatively minor but in 3.5 CSM book chosen squads could include one aspiring sorcerer. Just a neat rule to add flavor especially for Tzeentch armies. Would be cool to bring back just use similar rules to rubric marines.

MagicJuggler wrote:Speaking of the 3.5 Chaos Codex, that was the last time that Possessed had a unique niche since you could buy their mutations and other powers as point-upgrades, instead of having to randomly generate them.

You could end up with an entire squad of flying Possessed Sorcerers of Tzeentch, all capable of turning your dudes into Spawn.

Of course, 4th ed onwards went back to "they have a random power. Chaos is Fickle."

Wow. I thought I had run out of reasons to hate Chaos 3.5, I guess I was wrong...

What's wrong with having a unit 180 models strong (where only 20 of them are Marines)?

Don't worry though, in that codex, the army with two wounds had a lot going for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Darnok wrote:
I wonder nobody has mentioned the vehicle construction rules from 3rd edition yet. While you could easily abuse them, they were also the tool to get creative conversions into the game. Same for the Tyranid creature construction rules shortly after. Good stuff!

Good one someone made in the VDR was Ork Binz, which were armour 9 all round walkers made from oil drums.

Then you had the ridiculous one from the Nid one, which thankfully was never made- a local player theorised a Gargantuan creature called "The Turd", which was a few inches long but 48" wide, so it covered the width of the board at the local GW. The rest of the Nid army would advance up behind it, immune to shooting until The Turd had been killed.