If you could chose a brand new Xenos faction to add to 40K would your rather expand on an existing wider faction (eg Eldar Exodites) or a completely new faction?

I've excluded Imperium as (even as an Imperial player) we have plenty already and Chaos as Emperor's Children, World Eaters and Lost & the Damned all have hints as being on the way at some point.


Personally I'd love to see the Tau Empire expanded to full lists for Kroot and Demigurg with expanded options for Vespid within the Tau Empire main book.
Also adding a regimental option in the Imperial guard to represent inducted humans within the empire.

What would you chose and why?

Corsairs. Because I still have mine and I'm mad they got squatted.

Agree with Tau Empire, open it up and make it a proper federation of Xenos, introduce a couple more gnarly minor xenos races. You can still have the Tau core worlds suit based armies, but give us the whacky xenos army of our dreams!

I think the best thing to do with Tau is to do what they did with Tyranids - split the army. That is have a Tau pure army which is the current force, a few allies from other races, but dominated by the pure Tau and their mecha style suits and mode of battle.

Then a second totally separate Tau allies army which likely focuses around Kroot as a core, but with a lot of other xenos forces added in.

That way you retain what has proved popular with the current Tau, without diluting it and you can add a huge amount of xenos models without tripping over the feet of what the mech approach already offers.


Ergo exactly what GW did with Tyranids and Genestealer Cults (and also what GW did with Genestealer Cults and Imperial Guard - esp once the second wave of cult models landed).


That way you give each wing room to expand and be its own thing with some cross over being possible. It lets you keep what works and expand on it without damaging what is already there.






I'd also like to see GW do Exodites - yes I know they are sort of there as ploy to coax you into making conversions; but I'd really love to see GW use that theme and run with it. It's a concept GW has never let go of, but over the decades they've never done more than the odd model (and that was back in the old days). I'd love to see a full monsters and technology Eldar army.





After that honestly I think more Xenos side things. I think the problem with Imperials is GW has done them to death so much that they've even tried making assassin armies into a thing and such. Imperials have "enough" of a force to do anything and everything and its hard to add to them without tripping over its own feet. Rather let that energy and focus allow them to bulk out what they've got. Make the separate Marine subfactions stand out more; release one or two more plastic guard kits that let guard players have different guard groups (they did this during the old metal days and with sales as they are they could repeat it with plastic and do well).

Otherwise I think Xenos allows GW to do new things and try out new ideas. They've already been bold with Tau and shown that the lore can support new Xenos rising up. They've even been building the story up in that the Imperium is really under pressure. Those same story tricks that let Tau thrive can allow others to thrive as well.

I think that is exactly the right approach. I would be well up for that!

A couple of kits for vespid, a couple of kits for Kroot, a new vehicle or something, and some Demiurg or other Xenos client race and you'd have a pretty decent faction. And you could go hog wild with the aesthetics. Grab that Star Wars esque rag tag bunch of weird aliens appeal.

Exodites would also be cool and were honestly my second idea, and I think they would make SO MUCH MONEY with dinosaurs and lasers, but they seem reticent to do it. I was surprised when I heard of a new Eldar faction and it was all about the Slaanesh Eldar stuff. I guess the people writing the eldar must be really into that. I would have prefered to see space elves on dinosaurs!

I do kinda feel there isn't room for another xenos faction entire though. You've got
- Vulcan/Romulan future space elves in the Eldar and Dark Eldar
- Orks as your ramshackle post apocalyptic ravager faction
- Necrons for your Cybermen death robot vibes
- Tau for some mech suits and optimistic sci fi, with underutilised secondary factions.
- Tyranids for your full on Xenomorph fun
- Genestealer cult for your alien corruption vibes

I mean how many Sci Fi tropes are left to mine? I love the space Dwarf concept and am working on a Demiurg force made from closed helmet mantic forgefathers, but I kinda wonder if that is really a viable niche. Maybe something really wacky and out there, like aliens that are all really big, like the Zoats, or something very intentionally a synthesis of biology and cybernetics.

I'd be interested to hear what people think though!

 Da Boss wrote:
I think that is exactly the right approach. I would be well up for that!

A couple of kits for vespid, a couple of kits for Kroot, a new vehicle or something, and some Demiurg or other Xenos client race and you'd have a pretty decent faction. And you could go hog wild with the aesthetics. Grab that Star Wars esque rag tag bunch of weird aliens appeal.

Exactly. Tau were clearly envisioned to be that at the start, but the Mech side took over in a big way. I don't mind that at all, but it has squashed the xenos allies side to the point where you can't really just add them back in now. Far better to split them off and let them be their own thing rather than try to keep them together. It allows far greater room to expand and means that GW hasn't got to abandon the mech side of things, nor even dilute it. And they can still do combined arms forces - either within one or both of the books or they can do what they did with Yinnari*


*which whilst its a cheesy marketing concept to take 2 separate armies and make them into a new one with combined arms; it can work. The only reason it currently keeps failing is that one full half of the most characterful models - aspect warriors for Craftworld - are ancient models sold in metal and finecast. Every time GW tries to push Yinnari it hits the wall that the army itself only has 1 set of models unique to it; whilst a full half of the models are old plastic and old metal/finecast designs. Craftworld needs the update Necrons have recently had to bring them up to standard alongside most other 40K factions.

We did get a hint of a Kroot spin off when they did a Mercenary list in White Dwarf a few additions ago.

Kroot with wings & snipers were an easy conversion shown along with "super" shapers.

A refresh of that could be a good starting point

I would prefer no more until GW fully fleshes out the existing Xenos factions.

If I had to pick something, it would be Corsairs.

I would like to see a better Vespid kit along with some of the Kroot options like Kroothounds and Krootox in plastic, and then at least one extra Xenos race. Sprinkle a few characters and you're ready to go. I wouldn't even say the core Kroot kit needs redoing, though maybe some squad weapons would be good.

I'd like to see Demiurg pop up, but largely because I love anything derivative of Dwarves.

That said, Tau definitely need their Auxiliaries emphasised more. Does seem like GW's deliberately steered away them from to sell more Big Stompy Robots. Expanding Kroot into their own 'dex seems the most obvious choice.

Ynnari Codex.

IMO the best thing they ever did with Eldar, making them relevant in the "current" 40K-timeline, instead of only moaning about some past nonsense.

Seconded (or thirded, not the first to mention this ITT!) on the various auxiliary race thing for Tau. The army is built for adding random things in, yet GW just don't (not enough room in the release list with all of those Primaris Lieutenants...) for whatever reason.

Pipe dream new faction is the Rak'Gol, but there I might be a little biased.

Rak Gol are a really cool idea actually. They had a cool aesthetic, cool themes of cybernetic allied with biology, and were a chaos supporting Xenos faction.

I used them in my Rogue Trader campaign and was very happy with them.

 harlokin wrote:
I would prefer no more until GW fully fleshes out the existing Xenos factions.

If I had to pick something, it would be Corsairs.

This.

It seems silly to be talking about bringing new Xeno factions into the game when GW won't even support the existing ones.

I don't care too much about support, I just want cool new models to mess around with honestly!

 vipoid wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
I would prefer no more until GW fully fleshes out the existing Xenos factions.

If I had to pick something, it would be Corsairs.

This.

It seems silly to be talking about bringing new Xeno factions into the game when GW won't even support the existing ones.

Agreed.

If we're wishlisting though: I'd happily trade some Marine subfactions/chapters for a variety of Tau allies. And concerning "Xenos faction of their own" I'd love to see redone Squats/Demiurg.

While I'd prefer to see exisiting models given better support and updates, including moving from finecast to plastic before a new faction gets introduced, I'd be interested in a Tau empire expansion fleshing out kroot, vespids and adding demiurg and some other xenos races to the mix as a faction.

Darnok...so basically you want to exchange Grey Knights or Deathwatch or Blood/Dark Angels...for what?

Because the rest have basically no model support outside of a one-off special character in plastic and an upgrade kit for shoulderpads. And if you really want to throw a fit over that well...that's on you.


Anyways:
No new armies until existing stuff gets fleshed out. Supplemental stuff? Hell yeah, let's do that.

Craftworlds and Drukhari getting a Corsairs 'shared' supplement book.
Tau getting an Alien Auxiliaries supplement book and a Farsight Enclaves supplement book.
...that's really all I have. Orks don't lend themselves as much to 'supplements' outside of full on Clan ones, Necrons the same, and Tyranids the same.

I would happily get rid of Deathwatch and Grey Knights for more Xenos. Just reduce them down to a single squad each to be taken by Imperial armies. And you forgot Space Wolves Kan, probably the Space Marine faction with the most unique models.

It is remarkable how consistent the desire for an expanded Tau auxiliaries roster is in this thread though!

So I did forget Space Wolves...but I'd still say that none of these things being exchanged would ever actually satisfy people who just hate Marines getting anything.

As far as Auxiliaries though? I don't think an 'expanded Tau auxiliaries' roster was sidelined because of mechs. It was seemingly sidelined long before we ever saw big suits as official GW products. I cannot really fault them for introducing big suits when some of the most popular scratch-builds prior to the Riptides were in fact...big mechs!

There were always rumors/insinuations floating around that the designers did not like the ability for people to play 'Tau-less Tau' out of the army book--which purportedly led to the old Chapter Approved/WD lists for Kroot Mercenaries.

Personally, if we have to see 'new factions'? I'd also like to see some revisions to things happening. I'd loooooooooooove to see a retcon to the Guard to rollback the Cruddace mess of every single Guard Regiment being DKoK/Valhallan "Throw more men at it!" things.
Calgar's revision to the Astartes to make them closer to the way the Legions used to operate feels like a good time to bring the Imperial Army back.

I don't hate Marines getting stuff, I just always found the Daemonhunters and Alienhunters as an idea of stand alone faction very poor game design, as they have so many specialist tactics for particular factions, it really showed the "Space Marines PCs, Chaos Villains, Xenos NPCs" dynamic too clearly for me.

I'd be up for scrapping the Tau in favour of a Kroot book.

 Da Boss wrote:
...I mean how many Sci Fi tropes are left to mine?...

The top-level broad-strokes kind of stuff has been explored pretty thoroughly, but there's still a lot of sci-fi tropes left to explore in expanding on existing stuff. GW doesn't usually spend a lot of mental energy on parallel factions (how does a different civilization handle the same problems?), so while we've got (for example) stuff for the Inquisition (the Imperium's internal security/dedicated anti-Chaos troubleshooting folks) we don't get to see the White Seers (the leadership of the Black Library, that serve a similar purpose for the Eldar) or the Prefecture Magisterium (the AdMech internal police) on the tabletop at all. The Triarchs are one unit and one vehicle, but if you go read the fluff they could easily have been a separate Codex that serves the same function for the Necrons.

You could also expand on "alliances"; they've been a weird part of the game ever since 6e introduced the concept of allowing general alliances in standard-size games just because books are so unevenly distributed across factions. There was a thing called "the Cabal" briefly in the Heresy period; it was an alliance containing the Eldar and a number of other species of similar age and knowledge. The Cabal itself is no more but some of those other species showing up as allies to the Eldar could expand their alliance beyond just the books with Eldar in them. There's enough lore to make the Kroot their own book in the Tau "alliance", definitely, you could expand Vespid/Demiurg to their own books, and make up new client races aplenty.

Orks/Necrons/Tyranids tend to kill people rather than talking to them but there's still plenty of design space within their single species to play around with. Orks have had Kult of Speed/Dread Mob variant lists in past editions, Necrons could get expanded Triarch/Canoptek content or supplements for various Dynasties (like the Manyarkh list of IA12), Tyranids could get a vanguard list or other specialist sub-forces.

Demiurg and Tau auxiliaries, yes. Also, Farsight Enclaves expanded. Myself and a couple of friends were discussing this last night, but Tau should allow their suit close support weapons to have melee stats. So all fusion guns have the fusion blade option, flamers have a melee stat as well. Give them a chance, lol.

As for a brand new Xenos race, I think a full on psychic force is needed. Imperium have GK, Chaos have TS, Xenos should get one. You then need to decide if they are also decent at shooting or melee, but not both.

What about the Khrave? Start out with a few kits, and then utilize Guard etc as psychically enslaved minions. So strong psykers, and then add in Guard shooting.

 harlokin wrote:
I would prefer no more until GW fully fleshes out the existing Xenos factions.

Agreed. Though sadly I don't think we're getting that. At last not for Dark Eldar.



---
But if a real 'new faction' were to happen, it also needs to be Xenos.
Lots of room now for someone to creep into the power vacuum in the northern half of the galaxy.

 Da Boss wrote:
I don't hate Marines getting stuff, I just always found the Daemonhunters and Alienhunters as an idea of stand alone faction very poor game design, as they have so many specialist tactics for particular factions, it really showed the "Space Marines PCs, Chaos Villains, Xenos NPCs" dynamic too clearly for me.

In my own projects I've always struggled with this; the Inquisition forces ought to be able to have anti-whatever tools without having stuff that depends on what Codex you're fighting against. The Ordo Xenos/Deathwatch should get things like hellfire rounds or anti-skimmer tech because MCs and skimmers are more common in xenos armies, and the Ordo Malleus/GK should get things like anti-Inv tech or anti-Deep Strike tech because those are common tools in Chaos armies, but I agree that rules and bonuses that reference your opponent playing a specific Codex are bad design.

The funny part is that when they were actually referencing your opponents playing specific Codices for you to succeed...people complained they were too focused and needed more. :-D

Or are we forgetting when Daemonhunters actually let you give your opponent a bonus?

Some of the comments about sub-elements with Xeno factions could actually go quite deep.

Maybe take an Imperium subfaction and show how other factions would do it.

For example, Admec matched with Dark Mec, Tau earth caste, Ork Mekboys, Eldar Spirt weavers (any any others I may have forgotten)

That way we could see various takes on the basic concept of engineering.

I don't think expanding the Tau auxiliaries is presenting a new faction any more than beefing up one that already exists (and Demiurg currently exist, just only in Battlefleet at present).

How many remember there was an Imperial Armour article which presented the Kroot Mercenary concept? Technically this wouldn't be a NEW faction, but more a resurrected one. They could even bring a "Wood Elf gone wrong" type atmosphere in to the game.

Da Boss wrote:I do kinda feel there isn't room for another xenos faction entire though. You've got
- Vulcan/Romulan future space elves in the Eldar and Dark Eldar
- Orks as your ramshackle post apocalyptic ravager faction
- Necrons for your Cybermen death robot vibes
- Tau for some mech suits and optimistic sci fi, with underutilised secondary factions.
- Tyranids for your full on Xenomorph fun
- Genestealer cult for your alien corruption vibes

I mean how many Sci Fi tropes are left to mine? I love the space Dwarf concept and am working on a Demiurg force made from closed helmet mantic forgefathers, but I kinda wonder if that is really a viable niche. Maybe something really wacky and out there, like aliens that are all really big, like the Zoats, or something very intentionally a synthesis of biology and cybernetics.

I'd be interested to hear what people think though!

Honestly, I'd like to see an Army of the Old Ones being presented. You know, the ones that beat the Necrontyr, but were owned by the Necrons? It would basically be a very upgraded Lizardmen force, but the lore for doing that exists by taking some Fantasy elements and putting them in to 40K. I started working on the idea back in 7th, but didn't take it far enough for doing much but broad ideas before 8th Edition came out.

People talk about the Hrud, and while it would probably share the ramshackle post-apocalypse theme combined with the Skaven of Fantasy, they would be doing even wackier tech concepts, but that could be more aesthetic than anything.

Da Boss wrote:Rak Gol are a really cool idea actually. They had a cool aesthetic, cool themes of cybernetic allied with biology, and were a chaos supporting Xenos faction.

I definitely think that there is room for a Chaos Xenos faction in the game, scratching both itches. The one problem with Chaos is your choice is Daemons or Humans, but ignoring all the other species out there. Maybe even combine one of my previous points and bring out a faction where the Rak'gol have conquered the Hrud, sublimated them in to Chaos worship, and then start going on a tear throughout the galaxy. To make things interesting, they could even worship Malice

So to start, I agree heartily with the "Plasticize all finecast before anything new" philosophy. And I think they should do it exactly like that, rather than worrying about timing the release schedule- just announce that "Hey, next month, instead of theming it up around a codex, we might be dropping models for 6 different factions, because we've decided that finecast has to go.

I'd like them to do it that way, because then it could get done quickly for everyone.

Now if you want to combine the eliminate finecast agenda with xenos faction updates, some of the replacement kits could be dual builds; like a new plastic Kroot shaper could be a dual build that gives you a captain equivalent and a lieutenant equivalent in the same box.

Kroot had a decent army once, and they still have enough units to provide a base; gnarlocs, gnarloc riders and greater gnarlocs need to come back. And yes, agree- give them dexes (or supplements) of their own, with Tau book as the core.

As for Ynarri, Exodites and Corsairs, you can kill all three birds with one stone. Release a Ynarri dex where the new units are mostly reborn Corsairs and Reborn Exodites. Minimize the overhead by making all of them dual builds. One box for each battlefield role for Corsairs and one for each battlefield role for Exodites. That's five boxes for each- six if you give them flyers and seven if you give them a fortification. This gives you a lot of stuff for your Ynarri dex- a potential 31 units in total.

Now obviously, not everyone likes Ynarri, so it may seem like a risk. But that's where White Dwarf comes in. Because they could create great mini-dexes for stand alone exodites and stand alone corsairs using the readily available Ynarri dual build kits. These would be 10-14 unit small lists for the duration of 9th, but if they prove popular, they can get some bespoke faction models and their own dexes (or supplements) in 10th.

Exodites are, at best, a unit option for Harlequins or Craftworlds.

Corsairs have the possibility for a whole faction, IMO. But I think starting them off as a supplement would work well.

Ynnari, I feel, would be a good start point for bringing the Craftworlds range up to date.

The more I think about it, the more I think if I wanted a "new" faction it should be something like the Rak Gol as a chaos xenos faction. They hit all the stuff I want, being weird non-humanoid aliens, and having the mix of tech and biology that I think is missing from the sci fi tropes still to mine.

I still think they should make the tau client races more interesting and beef them back up properly, but if we are purely wishlisting, I would really love to see a Rak Gol army.

Sunny Side Up wrote:Ynnari Codex.

IMO the best thing they ever did with Eldar, making them relevant in the "current" 40K-timeline, instead of only moaning about some past nonsense.

This, it's pretty much the reason I bought pointy ears. Craftworlds & Deldar fluff never did anything for me. Ynarri came around and I said "space elves worshiping the literal GOD OF DEATH, count me in!" Then they proceeded to make everyone hate them.....in game.

But I really want fething Dinoriders.

Squats.

Because I've always loved playing Dwarves in minis games.
SPACE DWARVES!
And I already have a Squat army .

Instead of a xeno faction I'd like a new human one, but not aligned with chaos or imperium. Some sort of space pirates: a mix between orks, AM and gen cult in aesthetics.

The typical post-apocalyptic Mad Max style gang.

 Blackie wrote:
Instead of a xeno faction I'd like a new human one, but not aligned with chaos or imperium. Some sort of space pirates: a mix between orks, AM and gen cult in aesthetics.

The typical post-apocalyptic Mad Max style gang.

So basically the Imperial Aligned "Rogue Traders" who already fill that slot

 harlokin wrote:
I would prefer no more until GW fully fleshes out the existing Xenos factions.

This.

Or Rak'Gol.

 Overread wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Instead of a xeno faction I'd like a new human one, but not aligned with chaos or imperium. Some sort of space pirates: a mix between orks, AM and gen cult in aesthetics.

The typical post-apocalyptic Mad Max style gang.

So basically the Imperial Aligned "Rogue Traders" who already fill that slot

I'm not familiar with Kill Team dudes, but lorewise maybe. Although those models look actually too steampunk oriented for my taste to represent the kind of faction I have in mind.

I’d want my damn kroot to be an army again lol.
I know it was just a WD article and wasn’t due to be long lived, but it was fun.

ID like to see either a race of rodents or a race or a race of dwarves that are super engineers, but I really doubt the rodent one would ever come

I can't believe i'm the first person to mention this...GROT REBELLION!

The entirety of the GW (non forgeworld) Grot unit entries is Mek gunz, Grotz and Kanz.

A stand alone grot army. Grot characters (real ones not limited release or Makari). Grot units like snipers and looters, Grot tanks moved over from FW and with rules that don't suck. Grot planes, grot artillery units etc.

Orkz are one of the few remaining faction without any allies. I believe its Orkz and Necrons as the last remaining factions.

Sharkmen.


Base them on the RT piscean warrior with a preference for medium-to-short-range combat, hovertanks and robots.

Could be pretty fun.

 Kanluwen wrote:


Ynnari, I feel, would be a good start point for bringing the Craftworlds range up to date.

It could be done that way- like the way they pitched alternate Banshee heads as the "Ynarri build" without actually removing banshees from the CWE list.

But if you're suggesting taking CWE units and making them exclusively Ynarri, or doing the same with DE or Harlies, I think that a lot of people who are already playing those other three factions who would be furious. I would be. This is why using Eldar factions that DON'T currently exist to round out Ynarri is so elegant. People who want Ynarri get Ynarri units; people who hate Ynarri get Corsairs, and people who play DE and CWE lose nothing.

As for whether or not Exodites could be a stand alone army, maybe not. Maybe the Ynarri range gets a bunch of kits for Reborn Corsairs- enough that they can be fielded as a stand alone force, whereas the Reborn Exodites only get a kit or two. The key though is not taking away CWE or DE stuff to grow Ynarri.

And keep in mind that the only way the Ynarri can "win" given the current fluff is if Slaanesh Daemons cease to exist, which obviously isn't going to happen. And it would suck if it did. Of course the fluff could be modified; maybe they do stage a daring campaign style raid into Slaanesh's realm to retrieve the fifth crone sword, but it doesn't have the effect they intended- like the New EC codex stops the power of the five crone swords from being effective by achieving some kind of defensive strategy.

PenitentJake wrote:
As for whether or not Exodites could be a stand alone army, maybe not. Maybe the Ynarri range gets a bunch of kits for Reborn Corsairs- enough that they can be fielded as a stand alone force, whereas the Reborn Exodites only get a kit or two. The key though is not taking away CWE or DE stuff to grow Ynarri.

Just had a crazy idea.

What if the Exodites and Lizardmen both were combined in a single codex. We already have them both as lizard riders, and could provide how they came together. The Exodites refreshed the Lizardmen spawning pools to provide the lizards they ride and to give them heavy troops these Eldar would lack due to no Wraiths or Grotesques. It would probably be closer to an Army of the Old Ones introduced after the Eldar were created, just with the Eldar in charge.

Id just like the current xenos factions to get support... Then we can think about more cool xenos.

No point in introducing a new faction and watch it slowly die..

 Argive wrote:
Id just like the current xenos factions to get support... Then we can think about more cool xenos.

No point in introducing a new faction and watch it slowly die..

The alternative is often that it causes another faction to die, one that is already on the decline.

Grot rebellion maybe as like a possible orc list not as a whole faction, but lizard men would be cooool af, like a surviving faction of old ones but without the supreme technology, could have lizard men and skinks, then their tanks could resemble triceratops

I'd love to see a line of Chaos mutants. They're a huge part of Chaos forces, but we almost never see them.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'd love to see a line of Chaos mutants. They're a huge part of Chaos forces, but we almost never see them.

we did see them, it's just GW handling everything now, so you are unlikely to ever see them again until GW needs to cash in on some nostalgia.

That beeing said:

At the very least GW could, before they introduce something new, indeed freshen up some ranges..

Nids have gotten nothing for a long time, Eldar both varietes have issues the least to happen would be getting rid of failcrap, Tau could also use a release or two that are NOT battlesuits. Orks ... are surprisingly fine if we ignore the koptas.

After that: Personally.
Either A corsairs or B Renegades and heretics / lost and the damned / Chaos cults .... you know what, just for brevities sake CC, chaos cannonfodder. C Dark mech, depending upon B easily foldable together..

Rak gol or demi urg / squads and as an aprils fool joakero warbands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bat702 wrote:
Grot rebellion maybe as like a possible orc list not as a whole faction, but lizard men would be cooool af, like a surviving faction of old ones but without the supreme technology, could have lizard men and skinks, then their tanks could resemble triceratops

Supplement grot rebellion imo.
you'd have to grotify all the infantry more or less, but vehicles you' could import 1:1

shame there never was a list for them unlike the gnoblar revolt, that one was fun.

If we go to the fantasy-counterparts route, what about space ogres? They'd also fit very well the current GW trend to prefer elite oriented armies .

Ogres as gravis dudes xenos equivalents would be troops, specialists and characters. Then a couple of vehicles (chariots?), mostly shooting oriented, a cavalry unit and some giants maybe mid sized ones and gargant ones. Eventually some cheap cannon fodder like snotlings to complete the roster.

I'd love some Tau type allies xenos. I got all hyped up years back that they'd get new allies and never did. My sadness was real. Now they could do it.

Core book for Tau with current kroot options. Then an allies supplement with expanded Kroot stuff and additional allied units. I'd love it if they were all in one book but lets be real, GW won't be that nice and lets be further honest they won't do this period.

Well, Squats would be something new.
New Eldar kin or new Chaos factions - looks a bit boring if you ask me.

Demiurg were always intriguing to me. They even had some cool ships for battlefleet gothic. Tau have been consistently disappointing for me. They've doubled down on more goofy over the top battlesuits as opposed to xenos allies. In a way i'm really surprised they never bothered to release a standalone demiurg for blackstone fortress....what a wasted opportunity.

They seem to have gone back to the Squats over the Demiurg these days, probably for nostalgia reasons. I think squats are fine, but I would be more interested in Demiurg these days as a full faction. I would rather a more alien look than short humans in space.

 Blackie wrote:
If we go to the fantasy-counterparts route, what about space ogres? They'd also fit very well the current GW trend to prefer elite oriented armies .

Ogres as gravis dudes xenos equivalents would be troops, specialists and characters. Then a couple of vehicles (chariots?), mostly shooting oriented, a cavalry unit and some giants maybe mid sized ones and gargant ones. Eventually some cheap cannon fodder like snotlings to complete the roster.

I'd like to take a moment and introduce you to this group of Ogryn...

If the Tau Empire were expanded to encompass some of their in lore factions, that would be a cool addition to 40k and an actual expansion that's not some form of Imperium, Chaos or Eldar.

I think Ynnari should be squatted personally, but if they were made to be standalone, their fluff would need to be better than it is now for them to be a proper force.

PenitentJake wrote:

It could be done that way- like the way they pitched alternate Banshee heads as the "Ynarri build" without actually removing banshees from the CWE list.

But if you're suggesting taking CWE units and making them exclusively Ynarri, or doing the same with DE or Harlies, I think that a lot of people who are already playing those other three factions who would be furious. I would be. This is why using Eldar factions that DON'T currently exist to round out Ynarri is so elegant. People who want Ynarri get Ynarri units; people who hate Ynarri get Corsairs, and people who play DE and CWE lose nothing.

I'm suggesting that the Ynnari could be used as a way to bring new kits in. The Ynnari are a potential way to bring in a new aesthetic for everything Craftworld. The Visarch is a good example of 'old is new', in that his armor is said to be the "ancient Bel-Anshoc style". It's still recognizably Aeldari but it's also a good cross between Drukhari and Craftworld design.

Bringing in a new design for the basic Craftworlds items that lets the core of the army keep the smoother, rounded edges and the flow for the Aspect Warriors yet also adds some bits for the hard lines of Bel-Anshoc stuff would be aces.

As for whether or not Exodites could be a stand alone army, maybe not. Maybe the Ynarri range gets a bunch of kits for Reborn Corsairs- enough that they can be fielded as a stand alone force, whereas the Reborn Exodites only get a kit or two. The key though is not taking away CWE or DE stuff to grow Ynarri.

Exodites can not be a standalone army. They're, at best, a campaign supplement bit or a unit choice in Craftworlds/Harlequins.

It's the same problem that exists with Planetary Defence Forces and Arbites: they're restricted to specific localities.

Squats.

None. 40K already has enough factions. The multiplicity of options makes balance increasingly impossible, introduces more opportunities for rules bloat and, makes it increasingly impossible to fairly play the game because you can't feasibly know your opponent's army rules, and he's more likely to forget and mess up half his army's rules.

I would go the opposite direction and remove factions, or consolidate them into one.

I would remove all the chapter-specific Space Marines codices and make the base rules flexible enough to model any chapter you want. I would do the same with the Chaos marines, and put daemons back into the main codex rather than giving them their own codex with nothing but daemons in it. I would roll Genestealer Cults back into the Guard codex as an "infected" variant. I would consolidate SoBs, Grey Knights, and all the miscellaneous inquisitors into a single codex, not unlike the 3rd edition "Witchhunters" codex.

etc.

No new factions, but expand the current factions and model lines, especially guard, eldar and dark eldar. The more detailed and fleshed out the factions the better, the more model and unit options per faction the better. I never got the criticism of rule bloat, the game thrives on complexity and needs more depth imo, there is so much they could still do.
Also WAY more alien auxillary forces for the tau. If they want to introduce new xenos without launching an entirely new faction, this would be a golden opportunity. Tau need more different playstyles anyway, so give them some awesome exotic xenos as auxillaries.

Edit: In a perfect world where all of the above already applies, I would want to introduce renegades and heretics as a proper stand alone faction.

I tend to agree with that, but once you have rolled back the faction bloat on the Imperial and Chaos side, there would be space for another Xenos faction in my view.

(I know that that would never happen, of course. No need to tell me.)

They've already removed all the Chapter-specific Space Marine codices. The only one left now is Grey Knights. Every other Chapter book is a supplement to the main Codex.

And hell no to any of your other stuff. The "Witchhunters"/"Daemonhunters" books were trash. GSC don't belong in the Guard codex either.

Deathwatch and Grey Knights as stand alone armies has always been a flawed concept.

 Da Boss wrote:
Deathwatch and Grey Knights as stand alone armies has always been a flawed concept.

I'll agree to this with a caveat:
The flaw is not them as a standalone army, it's that the armies were basically pushed to be armies rather than a collection of heroes. The Killteam system for Deathwatch is and will continue to be, IMO, hot garbage. It should have been a FOC setup rather than a unit.

The same thing goes for Custodes and Grey Knights. Their 'squads', effectively, should have been individual units as a FOC.

Yup. Agree completely. The concept of specialist squads is fine.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Exodites can not be a standalone army. They're, at best, a campaign supplement bit or a unit choice in Craftworlds/Harlequins.

It's the same problem that exists with Planetary Defence Forces and Arbites: they're restricted to specific localities.

Why can't Exodites be stand alone?
They've units all the way from infantry up to titan scale monsters and they are, lore wise, quite separated from the Craftworlders. Sure because they've not been on the table and because GW doesn't focus on Xenos lore stories that much they don't have many "units" but they could easily add some generic infantry units and such to bulk out the range for their own launch. The only restriction in lore is they might need transport by Craftworlders; but that's the same as how most Imperial forces need the Imperial Navy to get them around. Plus with all the lore developments in Eldar it would be easy to say that the push by Yinnari has caused the Craftworlders to share a surge of optimism and to strike out from their worlds; hiring transports from Craftworlders or navigating ancient webway pathways to shift onto the offensive and not just hiding on the rim.

Plus unlike an Imperial Defence force, which is going to use mostly the same gear/designs/ideas as Imperial Guard; Exodites have a big theme - dinosaurs/monsters/beasts/aliens. That alone quickly bulks out their vehicles and elites and such.

First you need a bit of breathing room as the amount of Codex books have risen to crazy heights. So let's squat ALL books and print ONLY the essential ones for Xth time again before we go to our wishlist:

- Space Marine Codex. Includes ONLY the most important units of the respective variant chapters in this new Codex.

- SoB Codex. Also includes Imperial Agents such as Assassins, Daemon Hunters, Grey Knights & Deathwatch.

- Imperial Guard Codex.

- Chaos Codex. Includes CSM, Daemons, Traitor Guard and Chaos Cults.

- Ork Codex. Includes also Kult of Speed, Feral Orks & Freebootaz.

- Eldar Codex. Includes also Dark Eldar.

-Tyranids. Includes also GSC.

- Squat the entire Necron and Newcron lore and pretend they only existed in 40k universe as part of the Imperial comic industry.

- Squat the entire Tau lore and pretend they only existed in 40k universe as part of a fictional race created for Imperial cinema. Imperial citizens want to enjoy some sci-fi too even if it is bad. Ah, and never touch the Tau lore again.


Now to the new factions:

- Robots
These are TRUE AI which means they were never living beings like the Necrons of old.
In addition they don't look like human skeletons (sorry, no terminator rip-off anymore) but feature a plethora of different sizes and forms which defines their role in automaton society. Added bonus: No Egyptian influence on their design.

A typical robot society would encompass a Head AI functioning as president, several smart bots performing complex duties and a swarm of dumbbots doing menial labour.


- Daemon Worlds
This is a throwback to 2nd and allows players with WHFB Chaos armies to use them in 40K. Their list would also be present in the above Chaos Codex.

Seems like a missed opportunity from GW to have not been building towards a xenos mercenaries kind of book with the zoats, etc. Giving tau an alternative to the gundam gunline.

 Kanluwen wrote:
And hell no to any of your other stuff. The "Witchhunters"/"Daemonhunters" books were trash.

The sisters as a stand alone faction are broad enough to carry a codex and units like inquisitors would fit in a thematic sense. Witchhunters as a faction is fine.

By comparison GK suffer from being two fairly specialist units stretched out into an army while DW are codex:sternguard. Even chapter supplements are given more to work with as a theme.

Why get rid of Necrons and Tau? They've plenty of fans.

 Da Boss wrote:
Yup. Agree completely. The concept of specialist squads is fine.

So we're clear, I'm meaning that a Deathwatch or Grey Knight army would be like this:

Deathwatch Captain/Grey Knight Captain as HQ
Jump Pack/Terminator/Techmarine/Aggressor Trooper with HQ level stats for Elites
Tactical/Primaris Phobos/Gravis/Tacitus with HQ level stats for Troops
Assault/Biker/whatever with HQ stats for Fast Attack
HQ level statted equivalents for Heavy Support

Remember the old Movie Marines stuff? That's what should have been done for GK/DW.

Old ones

 Overread wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Exodites can not be a standalone army. They're, at best, a campaign supplement bit or a unit choice in Craftworlds/Harlequins.

It's the same problem that exists with Planetary Defence Forces and Arbites: they're restricted to specific localities.

Why can't Exodites be stand alone?
They've units all the way from infantry up to titan scale monsters and they are, lore wise, quite separated from the Craftworlders. Sure because they've not been on the table and because GW doesn't focus on Xenos lore stories that much they don't have many "units" but they could easily add some generic infantry units and such to bulk out the range for their own launch. The only restriction in lore is they might need transport by Craftworlders; but that's the same as how most Imperial forces need the Imperial Navy to get them around. Plus with all the lore developments in Eldar it would be easy to say that the push by Yinnari has caused the Craftworlders to share a surge of optimism and to strike out from their worlds; hiring transports from Craftworlders or navigating ancient webway pathways to shift onto the offensive and not just hiding on the rim.

I never once said anything about unit ideas being the issue--it's the lockdown on specific planets being the issue. There's a specific reason why I called them out as 'units in Craftworlds/Harlequins' and it is because they would benefit from being used in that vein as bringing in a new type of 'Outcast' unit to go alongside of Rangers.

Plus unlike an Imperial Defence force, which is going to use mostly the same gear/designs/ideas as Imperial Guard; Exodites have a big theme - dinosaurs/monsters/beasts/aliens. That alone quickly bulks out their vehicles and elites and such.

They also have a big theme: stationary worlds defended from outside threats primarily by the Craftworlds.

Additionally, Imperial Defence Forces would have wildly different gear and that's not even going into uniforms/armor patterns. A lot of the 'relic tanks' that we had FW release(Crassus and its variants plus the Malcadors) prior to the Horus Heresy were items that came out of storage from PDF vaults as they're trash for frontline units. And then that's not even getting into the designs we've never seen like the Reavers and other 'light' tanks. Plus the local tech level is the main deciding factor for PDFs--this is where you'd realistically see things like Rough Riders.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Additionally, Imperial Defence Forces would have wildly different gear and that's not even going into uniforms/armor patterns. A lot of the 'relic tanks' that we had FW release(Crassus and its variants plus the Malcadors) prior to the Horus Heresy were items that came out of storage from PDF vaults as they're trash for frontline units. And then that's not even getting into the designs we've never seen like the Reavers and other 'light' tanks. Plus the local tech level is the main deciding factor for PDFs--this is where you'd realistically see things like Rough Riders.

Very similar to the old renegades and heretics by the sounds of it.

There are a few side factions that are beholden to forgeworld - a whole alternate mechanicum lineup for example. I don't fancy their chances of making it into 40k though.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Remember the old Movie Marines stuff? That's what should have been done for GK/DW.

Deathwatch were never movie marines, they are just regular marines on loan. GW could have included them as a chapter tactic at any point and 5e sternguard were deathwatch by any other name.

Deathwatch were described as individuals who each brought a unique skillset to a Kill Team.

Hence why my idea is to have them actually utilized as characters that each take up a FOC slot rather than the current mechanism. That was the issue that existed previously with the 'Killteam Formations' and will continue to exist until they actually do something other than just keeping them as 'if you take X unit type in the squad, you get X bonus!'.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why get rid of Necrons and Tau? They've plenty of fans.

Strg Alt said get rid of their lore, not their factions.

ccs wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why get rid of Necrons and Tau? They've plenty of fans.

Strg Alt said get rid of their lore, not their factions.

They said...

Huh. So they did. I misread "lore" as "line".

So not as bad as getting rid of the models, rules, and fluff, but still. Plenty of people like the fluff.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why get rid of Necrons and Tau? They've plenty of fans.

Squats also had fans and were removed nonetheless as they were downright superfluous.

Eldar have already the trait of having advanced tech so there is no need for the Tau.

Necrons need an overhaul. People want to see a true AI faction in the game and not silly, fake robots (remember, the Necrons were once REAL people) cosplaying as Tomb Kings in space. Newcrons are even more awful from a design standpoint than the Squats and those midgets sole purpose was to make fun of real life biker machos simply be existing on the tabletop.

Battle Sisters already have the trait of being humans in power armour so there is no need for Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines.

I'm not sure on preference, but Hrud, Exodites and Dark Mechanicus seem like the only factions that get mentioned reasonably often in the modern fluff* but have no models.

*I.e. those bits of the 8th edition Codexes and PA that used to have "X fought Y, and won. X fought Z and everyone died".

I will go ahead and echo so many other posters in this thread and say I'd love to see a full-on Tau Auxiliaries faction. Some new models/units for Kroot and Vespids would be cool, but also they could add Demiurg and Gue'vesa (humans) to the mix. Indeed, Gue'vesa are a pretty common thing in Tau fluff so it astounds me that they haven't gotten models at all (they were mentioned in an old Imperial Armor book but I don't think they had bespoke models; please correct me if I'm wrong though ).

Also, what about the Hrud? I don't know much about them, but I've heard them mentioned enough times on Dakka and elsewhere to think that maybe they could get a full release if we were to get a completely new Xenos faction. The only thing I've consistently heard about them is that they have some kind of temporal manipulation abilities (but I don't know if it's technology or some ability of the Hrud themselves), which I'm not sure how they'd translate into tabletop rules.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why get rid of Necrons and Tau? They've plenty of fans.

Necrons need an overhaul. People want to see a true AI faction in the game and not silly, fake robots (remember, the Necrons were once REAL people) cosplaying as Tomb Kings in space. Newcrons are even more awful from a design standpoint than the Squats and those midgets sole purpose was to make fun of real life biker machos simply be existing on the tabletop.

Source your claims.

My background for my necron dudes is exactly that. They are Imperial Androids, the Men of Iron from the background, corrupted by an IA xenos.

The less humanoid constructs are the original Xenos constructs.

Hence the taboo against AI in 40k.

You can write whatever background you want for your stuff. I can't make my own minis though, so I am glad GW has necron minis for me to use and to help provide inspiration.

A Xeno faction corrupted by Chaos such as Yu'vath or Saruthi

 Da Boss wrote:
My background for my necron dudes is exactly that. They are Imperial Androids, the Men of Iron from the background, corrupted by an IA xenos.

The less humanoid constructs are the original Xenos constructs.

Hence the taboo against AI in 40k.

You can write whatever background you want for your stuff. I can't make my own minis though, so I am glad GW has necron minis for me to use and to help provide inspiration.

You still are burdened with the hunchbacked terminator models. An innovative take on the robot faction is badly needed. Sadly GW would rather try to sell us SM all over again (Primaris) than to step away from their rip-off design to create something unique in that regard.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Exodites can not be a standalone army. They're, at best, a campaign supplement bit or a unit choice in Craftworlds/Harlequins.

It's the same problem that exists with Planetary Defence Forces and Arbites: they're restricted to specific localities.

Why can't Exodites be stand alone?
They've units all the way from infantry up to titan scale monsters and they are, lore wise, quite separated from the Craftworlders. Sure because they've not been on the table and because GW doesn't focus on Xenos lore stories that much they don't have many "units" but they could easily add some generic infantry units and such to bulk out the range for their own launch. The only restriction in lore is they might need transport by Craftworlders; but that's the same as how most Imperial forces need the Imperial Navy to get them around. Plus with all the lore developments in Eldar it would be easy to say that the push by Yinnari has caused the Craftworlders to share a surge of optimism and to strike out from their worlds; hiring transports from Craftworlders or navigating ancient webway pathways to shift onto the offensive and not just hiding on the rim.

I never once said anything about unit ideas being the issue--it's the lockdown on specific planets being the issue. There's a specific reason why I called them out as 'units in Craftworlds/Harlequins' and it is because they would benefit from being used in that vein as bringing in a new type of 'Outcast' unit to go alongside of Rangers.

Plus unlike an Imperial Defence force, which is going to use mostly the same gear/designs/ideas as Imperial Guard; Exodites have a big theme - dinosaurs/monsters/beasts/aliens. That alone quickly bulks out their vehicles and elites and such.

They also have a big theme: stationary worlds defended from outside threats primarily by the Craftworlds.

Additionally, Imperial Defence Forces would have wildly different gear and that's not even going into uniforms/armor patterns. A lot of the 'relic tanks' that we had FW release(Crassus and its variants plus the Malcadors) prior to the Horus Heresy were items that came out of storage from PDF vaults as they're trash for frontline units. And then that's not even getting into the designs we've never seen like the Reavers and other 'light' tanks. Plus the local tech level is the main deciding factor for PDFs--this is where you'd realistically see things like Rough Riders.

Exodite planets are invaded all the time - biel tan set itself up as galactic exodite protection force because of this perpetual threat.

Also, the Phoenix Rising awakening book had the dragon knights march into the web way to fight alongside their brethren to pay back the protection they'd been afforded.

And if GW can pull CUSTODES fighting as an army, then nothing else holds water. Not only should they be restricted to planetside, they're only restricted to ONE planet. a planet they were originally sworn to never leave.

How convenient that GW can just wave their hand and the emperor's personal bodyguards can leave the imperial palace, but an exodite king deciding he wants to invade other planets and build an empire is just too much....

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
My background for my necron dudes is exactly that. They are Imperial Androids, the Men of Iron from the background, corrupted by an IA xenos.

The less humanoid constructs are the original Xenos constructs.

Hence the taboo against AI in 40k.

You can write whatever background you want for your stuff. I can't make my own minis though, so I am glad GW has necron minis for me to use and to help provide inspiration.

You still are burdened with the hunchbacked terminator models. An innovative take on the robot faction is badly needed. Sadly GW would rather try to sell us SM all over again (Primaris) than to step away from their rip-off design to create something unique in that regard.

no they're not, . just because you don;t like something, doesn;'t mean everyone else dislikes them. Lots of people LIKE Necrons replacing them with a totally differant model line with totally differant lore serves zero purpose. after all GW KNOWS Necrons sell. they have no idea how well your frankly dull "lol evil kill robots left over from centuries ago" would sell

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
My background for my necron dudes is exactly that. They are Imperial Androids, the Men of Iron from the background, corrupted by an IA xenos.

The less humanoid constructs are the original Xenos constructs.

Hence the taboo against AI in 40k.

You can write whatever background you want for your stuff. I can't make my own minis though, so I am glad GW has necron minis for me to use and to help provide inspiration.

You still are burdened with the hunchbacked terminator models.

Damn it, I hate it when GW insists upon selling me the models I want.
I've always been just fine with GW selling me an army of almost-T-800 Endoskeletons.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hellebore wrote:

And if GW can pull CUSTODES fighting as an army, then nothing else holds water. Not only should they be restricted to planetside, they're only restricted to ONE planet. a planet they were originally sworn to never leave.

Maybe all battles against Custodes are holo-deck like training exercises.
I mean, they gotta train, right? And if they can't leave the planet how would they ever be prepared to fight vs xyz?

Necrons should really provide three options:
1 - Oldcron, C'tan lorded horror-from-beyond army
2 - Newcron, for the weird people who like it
3 - AI-run-amok Crons, where they're under the dominion of ancient protocalls or potentially self aware non-living control.

Also they should have Pariahs.

Bonus points for twisted human auxilliaries.

They were better when they were chaos androids...

Racerguy180 wrote:
They were better when they were chaos androids...

that's an odd stance to take, they really didn't have much to them iirc. It also seems like they could both exist without a problem.

The reason I liked them better is cuz they were made by Chaos Squats

Too many people suggesting there are too many factions and we should squat some.

This is a thread about adding.

People who say there are too many factions confuse me. Don't like a faction? Don't buy it. Problem solved.

You know how long we've been waiting for the current sisters dex? For Order traits?

I'll give a hint; I've wanted it since before the turn of the millennium. I take it kinda personally that you want to ruin something I love so that you can "streamline".

Play Grimdark. Play one page rules. Play the pro hammer 5th that gets floated around here all the time. Do whatever. This is a thread for people who want options, not for people who want to take options away from others.

Racerguy180 wrote:
The reason I liked them better is cuz they were made by Chaos Squats

Oh really? That's cool, I didn't know.

PenitentJake wrote:
Too many people suggesting there are too many factions and we should squat some.

This is a thread about adding.

People who say there are too many factions confuse me. Don't like a faction? Don't buy it. Problem solved.

You know how long we've been waiting for the current sisters dex? For Order traits?

I'll give a hint; I've wanted it since before the turn of the millennium. I take it kinda personally that you want to ruin something I love so that you can "streamline".

Play Grimdark. Play one page rules. Play the pro hammer 5th that gets floated around here all the time. Do whatever. This is a thread for people who want options, not for people who want to take options away from others.

I've seen a lot more of "Don't add new factions, finish the current ones," than "Squat factions to add new."

 JNAProductions wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
Too many people suggesting there are too many factions and we should squat some.

This is a thread about adding.

People who say there are too many factions confuse me. Don't like a faction? Don't buy it. Problem solved.

You know how long we've been waiting for the current sisters dex? For Order traits?

I'll give a hint; I've wanted it since before the turn of the millennium. I take it kinda personally that you want to ruin something I love so that you can "streamline".

Play Grimdark. Play one page rules. Play the pro hammer 5th that gets floated around here all the time. Do whatever. This is a thread for people who want options, not for people who want to take options away from others.

I've seen a lot more of "Don't add new factions, finish the current ones," than "Squat factions to add new."

Indeed. I suspect that the reason people suggest squatting or consolidating factions in this thread is because GW does not seem capable of managing the factions it has even now, including a few factions that very desperately need it, so I understand that while fantasizing about what we'd like to have, we'd also consider what we'd be willing to give up. Although, yes, we did have different threads for that, it's a logical consequence of the thought, and there's no need to go full on "Love it or GTFO."

While we're fantasizing purely about adding without consequences, though, I'm just waiting on Emperor's Children, and wouldn't mind seeing the rest of the Traitor Legions getting at least the Supplement treatment.

I know OP said not Chaos, but you shoulda put that in the thread title. :p

Okay, okay. New Xenos faction... Easy. Space Skaven. Which mechanically have to be somewhere in the interstitial ellipse between Admech and Orks.

That's fair.

And even I'm on board with "Don't add new until you fix what we've got."

Corsairs, Space Rats, and Beastmen/Abhumans.

Ok, i would do something really unique.

I'd bring back the slann/old ones as a new army with very few actual models for it, rather they could mind control human ork and eldar forces as their troops since they created those races.

I could see the slann as huge big brained space toads floating on psychic thrones, but to be honest i wouldn't mind seeing them revamped thusly:

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/013/849/875/large/josh-guglielmo-ageoftheatom-com-crawling-eye.jpg?1541370354

The story would be the slann had jut seeded earth with a biuosphere meant to produce a new species, but wanted to let it evolve naturaly instead of sculpting it in detail like they did the krork and the eldar when the necrons attacked with the c'tan and seriously reduced theiur numbers. The survivors created a pocket of real space in the warp protected by their awesome psychic power and pulled the same kind of thing the silent king did with the sleep of aeons. Hide from the galaxy until the necrons returned an wipe them out because at that point the silent king had left the galaxy and they wanted to wait till he returned.

So they hid in their pocket star cluster hidden in the warp and maybe created some new species to pass the time.

65 or so million years go by and humanity evolves, the krork and eldar radically change and degenerate from their heights, the silent king returns and begins waking up the necrons, oh, and a bunch of bugs from another galaxy show up somehow.

Slann return take a good look at the galaxy and decide "Yeah, definitely needs a reboot." as their old creations have proven a disappointment, humanity had some potential maybe but is questionable and these damn bugs are really getting to be obnoxious.

But their numbers are limited to they manage to mind control some of the weaker minded members of their old creations and use them as grunts while the main roles are filled by various stage slann and maybe their newer species. (Maybe they look like the engineers from aliens? A humanoid with traits of human, ork and eldar but superior to each in some ways.)

The high level slann really should be maybe on the same level as the c'tan more or less, with lesser stage ones being really nasty psykers, their new pets being elite and special troops while troops from eldar, human and ork forces are good ol' cannon fodder.

Maybe they can take over some original space marines but one of th things about primaries is they're too different and advanced to be controlled by the slann. So you can use your original space marines as slann slave troops.

So, turanids want to eat everything and leave a lifeless galaxy behind them, necrons want to save the galaxy from the nids so they can dominate it and return to the tie of flesh, the other races pretty much want to go on living and maybe taking the galaxy over the galaxy themselves.

GW would never even think of this as it's a new army that doesn't make you buy a whole ew army, you can use existing troops as troops in it if they're human, ork or eldar.

I would prefer that GW do the basic well before adding more to the brushfire that has become of 40k... what happened to eldar? Imp guard? After GW has the basics done well, then maybe branching out then would make sense. Otherwise it is “ignore the mess over there, but look at the shiny new mess here!”

Yeah I think there's currently space to explore new or untapped stuff in the setting, but there's a greater need to actually get existing races updated and supported properly within the main game.

This is where Kill Team and WHQ could again be used to expand on some of the lesser stuff. I'm not sure an Exodite army would really work in 40k, but I like the idea of an Exodite Kill Team for instance. It requires far less investment and time (which could otherwise be spent updating CWE or IG for instance) but still introduces something new and still leaves the door open for a full Exodite range in the future.

In terms of xenos stuff, I'd like to see an expansion of Tau Auxiliaries - a bit of love for Kroot, Vespids, Tarellians, Gue'Vasa, and so on. Bring back the combined arms army/coalition and edge away from rock em sock em robots. Less a new faction and more something that had existed for a long time and just ignored.

I love seeing so many in favour for Kroot. They're my favourite race in 40k, I'd love to see them getting support and more kits.

If they made a Slann/Old one army could be amazing imo, like maybe a smaller faction survived or went dormant, and is making a comeback, I would really love to see Saurus/skinks on the 40k tabletop, bring some new technology that we havent seen

Xenos Knight equivalent.

I mean, Chaos and Imperium both have entirely Big Boy forces. Why not a Xenos one?

Yes I know many aren’t too fond of Knights, but I wants it all the same.

And it would allow a less numerous species to have an impact in battle. Where even Astartes commit dozens to a battle, this species need only send in 5 dudes in battle armour.

i miss my cannonfodder for chaos.

Xenos knights also exist, mad, they're in the aeldari roster.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Xenos Knight equivalent.

I mean, Chaos and Imperium both have entirely Big Boy forces. Why not a Xenos one?

Yes I know many aren’t too fond of Knights, but I wants it all the same.

And it would allow a less numerous species to have an impact in battle. Where even Astartes commit dozens to a battle, this species need only send in 5 dudes in battle armour.

Wraithknights, Stompas, Heirodules (IIRC - I think Heirophants were the titans)...

Admittedly, someone screwed the Stompa statline, but...

The stompa is no knight.

It's an overpriced plastic DIY warhammer 40k themed garden gnome.

TBH an Ork Stompa Klan could be pretty cool.
I'd like rules for Grot revolutions though. Particularly loads of random armoured vehicles and such.

I'd rather scratch build my own Stompa I reckon. Not a fan of the plastic kit, especially not for the price!
Gorkanauts look pretty cool though.

You could do Grot revolution in game right now - all grot mobs, lots of killa kans and grot artillery!

 Da Boss wrote:

You could do Grot revolution in game right now - all grot mobs, lots of killa kans and grot artillery!

Not really, they only have one HQ who's a unique character and a limited edition model at that.
Unless of course you wanted to do little Grot cybersuits or something as counts-as Orks.

I think they should expand o the tau auxiliary and merc faction, a lot of mini factions would work a lot better if they could draw from a shared book to fill in gaps.
As well as have units that can be used in other factions to a limited point.
Orc pirates working for tau, Eldar and imperial guard with ease. Even something like Vespid could be expanded just slightly, but use the merc units to fill in gaps would be awesome.

Tau don't really accept Mercenaries though, rather they accept other reasons into the Greater Good.
I can't see Orks or Eldar folding in like that.
However expanding auxilliaries would be nice. If each auxilliary race had a HQ, standard unit, and specialist unit, I think that would be a suitable and realistic model to follow.

Squats! (Or call them Demiurg or whatever)

I don't care about using them for current editions of 40k, but would love to see what the modern GW could do with the miniature range in terms of new miniature sculpting and also the massive plastic war machines (really what made the faction stand out so well in Epic, but GW couldn't replicate in 28mm scale due to the limitations at that time).

I would love to see a properly Xenos take on Demiurg rather than the Abhuman Squats. I think there is still a place for the Squat Abhumans, but I would rather see a more visually unique interpretation for the faction if GW were going to introduce it.

I like the idea that they would bring back some of the proper sci fi ideas of high gravity planets and so on that used to be more prevalent in GW stuff, so you could imagine atmospheres of intense pressure and high gravitational fields making them very tough and strong, but perhaps needing to wear pressure suits on lower gravity planets, a bit like deep sea fish (yeah, I know I am repeating myself from my headcanon post...I just want my Blobfish Demiurg!).

But I certainly wouldn't be against the old Abhuman force coming back, I have a great fondness for them from reading the 2e Codex Imperialis. As a kid, my first ever call to an adult by phone was calling a baffled Mail Order Troll to try to order Codex Squats and being very sad when I found out it didn't exist, as the 2e promotional material had suggested it would. I ended up getting a few squat bikers instead from a very sympathetic Troll.

As for an all grot army i think that gorka morka had 'da red gobbo' that was a satire on socialist revolutionaries, so maybe a grot army could be a take on that sort of movement.



Of course while demanding equality and justice they'd brutally oppress snotlings...

Less socialist revolutionaries and more civil rights movements.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Of course while demanding equality and justice they'd brutally oppress snotlings...

Angry twice within 10 days. Who knew that was would possible. But anyways. I would want a subfaction for all the GK brotherhoods. Termintor purfires, Or the Librarian army from the 4th brotherhood or a ghost army of GrandMaster Mordrak. Would be nice to see the rules for all of those.
Maybe ven a Titan Forge army where every model is mounted in nemezis suit.

Karol wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Of course while demanding equality and justice they'd brutally oppress snotlings...

Angry twice within 10 days. Who knew that was would possible. But anyways. I would want a subfaction for all the GK brotherhoods. Termintor purfires, Or the Librarian army from the 4th brotherhood or a ghost army of GrandMaster Mordrak. Would be nice to see the rules for all of those.
Maybe ven a Titan Forge army where every model is mounted in nemezis suit.

I feel like you would need a couple new kits at the very least to entertain the idea of expanding the GK groups. And why are you angry?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Xenos Knight equivalent.

I mean, Chaos and Imperium both have entirely Big Boy forces. Why not a Xenos one?

Yes I know many aren’t too fond of Knights, but I wants it all the same.

And it would allow a less numerous species to have an impact in battle. Where even Astartes commit dozens to a battle, this species need only send in 5 dudes in battle armour.

Orks have the Stompa & Gorkanaut.

Eldar have the Wraithknight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matt Swain wrote:
As for an all grot army i think that gorka morka had 'da red gobbo' that was a satire on socialist revolutionaries, so maybe a grot army could be a take on that sort of movement.



Of course while demanding equality and justice they'd brutally oppress snotlings...

Looks like Che Grotera.

 Hellebore wrote:

Exodite planets are invaded all the time - biel tan set itself up as galactic exodite protection force because of this perpetual threat.

Also, the Phoenix Rising awakening book had the dragon knights march into the web way to fight alongside their brethren to pay back the protection they'd been afforded.

Hence why I said that they would make a good deal of sense as options in the Craftworld book. Exodites, much like Kroot and the Inquisition, are less "standing army of their own" and more "allied auxiliaries".

And if GW can pull CUSTODES fighting as an army, then nothing else holds water. Not only should they be restricted to planetside, they're only restricted to ONE planet. a planet they were originally sworn to never leave.

How convenient that GW can just wave their hand and the emperor's personal bodyguards can leave the imperial palace, but an exodite king deciding he wants to invade other planets and build an empire is just too much....

Find me where I said I was okay with Custodes as an army. I can wait.

Anyways, Custodes have access to their own ships. And they have the backing of a Primarch.

An Exodite king is, at best, a backwater warlord. If you want to argue that Exodites should be represented in the Craftworlds book? I'll back you 100% on that.

I'm also of the opinion that Planetary Defence Forces should be available as a choice in the Guard book, with 'officers' available as part of an advisory cadre letting Guard units get held back in reserve and artillery positions/defenses as part of what they bring to the table.

I would prefer that GW do the basic well before adding more to the brushfire that has become of 40k... what happened to eldar? Imp guard? After GW has the basics done well, then maybe branching out then would make sense. Otherwise it is “ignore the mess over there, but look at the shiny new mess here!”

What happened to Eldar? They were squatted.

I am in the camp of not adding anything new and completing what we have. I mean someone above mentioned how long they waited for the updated Sisters dex and for some IG stuff, and that's at least in part due to the fact that they can't really manage the factions they already have, so adding new ones kind of makes me nervous.

That said, in the spirit of the thread, if I HAD to add one - it would be something almost everyone can use. A sort of "Mercenaries and Rogues" type of book where you have characters and units that can be added to your army without breaking any of its unique rules. You could put some Zoats in there, maybe some different Kroot units, some cool bounty hunters, etc etc.

In this way you could potentially benefit everyone without creating a huge, difficult to maintain faction.

Completely new faction. Splitting them out etc is just laziness.

I’d like a return of the old ones - eg, space dinosaurs. Preferably space dinosaurs with glasses because, you know, glasses make you look smarter.

Sumilidon wrote:
Completely new faction. Splitting them out etc is just laziness.

I’d like a return of the old ones - eg, space dinosaurs. Preferably space dinosaurs with glasses because, you know, glasses make you look smarter.

Well, only the frogs and little lizards were smart out of them. The big brutes, though, not so much.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Of course while demanding equality and justice they'd brutally oppress snotlings...

Angry twice within 10 days. Who knew that was would possible. But anyways. I would want a subfaction for all the GK brotherhoods. Termintor purfires, Or the Librarian army from the 4th brotherhood or a ghost army of GrandMaster Mordrak. Would be nice to see the rules for all of those.
Maybe ven a Titan Forge army where every model is mounted in nemezis suit.

I feel like you would need a couple new kits at the very least to entertain the idea of expanding the GK groups. And why are you angry?

Nah just an upgrade kit to put a braziar instead of the regular banners on the terminators and power armoured dudes. Again this is wish thinking of course. The chance of GW making new GK models in power armoured, which are not some limited edition character, are as close to zero as it gets.


And I got angry, because I don't like the idea of communism being seen as something funny. Specialy not durning the months were my people were herded in to cow wagons and send of to die in Siberian gulags, which they had to build first. Personal thing, I doubt many would share, unless their family history has something similar in it. It is probably a similiar thing if a jewish person sees an ork storm boy in a mock SS or wehrmacht uniform, and their opponent claim that it makes the orks look funny. I get the lore in both cases, but I do not like it one bit.

erm, you are aware of what satire is, right?

And irony.

Not Online!!! wrote:
erm, you are aware of what satire is, right?

And irony.

Do you want me to PM you the stories about my family what happened to them in 1939, because I think if I did it here I would be breaking the forum rules ? I have as much understanding for red army looking stuff as satire, as someone who is Tutsi and get presented with Hutu humour. I don't expect for others to feel the same, but those are my feelings. And as I said, I was suprised I got angry looking at the model, because in general I can't get angry.

There's no political commentary on anything in 40k. It's full of this sort of satire, the entire setting focuses on an oppressive regime as the Goodies.
I'm not sure if your reference to Stormboys was deliberate, but one of the models on the kit is a call back to a Luftwaffe pilot.

I saw stormboy models, from older editions I think who wore german uniforms and stahlhelmets. I wouldn't bring up Luffwaffe as a good example of satire either. My great great grandfather lost 2 sons, and their wifes and their 7 children durning the bombings of warsaw on the 3ed of september, and then my family lost another two family members durning the bombings durning the Uprising. My great grandfather from my mothers side had his entire village burned to the ground, and his brother who was 7 at the time got hurt in the arm so bad, that it had to be amputed.
I have zero amounts of understanding of what is funny about either the nazi germany or soviet russia. all I know it that it makes me angry, it also makes me angry to think that others think that it could be something funny. But I do understand that maybe it is a personal thing, and that someone whose families body count does not go in to the tens of people may have a different perception of the whole thing.

In fact I think I get a lot more offended by people making it seem funny, then historical.

a Stuka is just a warplane, making a funny politruk implies that there is something to be fun about them, which I really don't see.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
There's no political commentary on anything in 40k. It's full of this sort of satire, the entire setting focuses on an oppressive regime as the Goodies.
I'm not sure if your reference to Stormboys was deliberate, but one of the models on the kit is a call back to a Luftwaffe pilot.

i think he means the really oldschool metal storm boyz with the corresponding insigniia.

Karol wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
erm, you are aware of what satire is, right?

And irony.

Do you want me to PM you the stories about my family what happened to them in 1939, because I think if I did it here I would be breaking the forum rules ? I have as much understanding for red army looking stuff as satire, as someone who is Tutsi and get presented with Hutu humour. I don't expect for others to feel the same, but those are my feelings. And as I said, I was suprised I got angry looking at the model, because in general I can't get angry.

which is fine i know what happened. Enough to know that for some people affected it wouldn't be funny, however i also feel that the best way to combat these issues is to satirise them. Because in these cases satire shows the true face of the corresponding ideology.

Hence why satirising f.e. the grot revolution to lead to a socialisct utopia and equality is inherently funny as it corresponds with the inherent totalitarian repression and inequality between those of the party and those not of the party and even more about the repression of differing cultures, which just get destroyed compared to the supposedly achieved equality..
it also links them to beeing viscious afraid little paranoid gaks, which grots are and shows their true nature, aka beeing a bunch of hypocrits.

it's the same for the old stormboyz, being nothing more then a bunch of violence loving morons, so stupid they'd shoot themselves suicidally at the enemy with rockets. Which is an apt description of the rank and file morons of the corresponding ideology, a violence craving mob with about 2 braincells to share between each of them far to afraid to make their own decision and constantly needing do as told.

This is why oldschool 40k with the blunt on the nose satire was probably one of the best things to combat these ideologies, and why i think they severly lost that for the "matureity" which then lead to the influx of those that believe this to be an utopia, especially in regards to the IoM.

besides 40k satireizes all that gak already. I mean the whole imperial guard comissars blamming people for example..

BrianDavion wrote:
besides 40k satireizes all that gak already

Did.
that's the issue. Atleast i percieve it to be one, that it nowadays often fails to achieve it or avoids it like the plague for the "majurity" of the setting.

None. Get all of the remaining pre-2000 models updated, get not-marine factions their rules updates, get a sense of relative balance then we can talk about fleshing out a new faction.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

Exodite planets are invaded all the time - biel tan set itself up as galactic exodite protection force because of this perpetual threat.

Also, the Phoenix Rising awakening book had the dragon knights march into the web way to fight alongside their brethren to pay back the protection they'd been afforded.

Hence why I said that they would make a good deal of sense as options in the Craftworld book. Exodites, much like Kroot and the Inquisition, are less "standing army of their own" and more "allied auxiliaries".

And if GW can pull CUSTODES fighting as an army, then nothing else holds water. Not only should they be restricted to planetside, they're only restricted to ONE planet. a planet they were originally sworn to never leave.

How convenient that GW can just wave their hand and the emperor's personal bodyguards can leave the imperial palace, but an exodite king deciding he wants to invade other planets and build an empire is just too much....

Find me where I said I was okay with Custodes as an army. I can wait.

Anyways, Custodes have access to their own ships. And they have the backing of a Primarch.

An Exodite king is, at best, a backwater warlord. If you want to argue that Exodites should be represented in the Craftworlds book? I'll back you 100% on that.

I'm also of the opinion that Planetary Defence Forces should be available as a choice in the Guard book, with 'officers' available as part of an advisory cadre letting Guard units get held back in reserve and artillery positions/defenses as part of what they bring to the table.

Your opinion on whether custodes SHOULD be an army is irrelevant, because GW does and has done so. So the precedent for very narrow justification is there. I'm not trying to justify them. In your paradigm but in GWs.


And i don't know where you get this idea that exodites are backwater. They control their entire planet and have access to the webway. They are where the Eldar knight clans come from and were a force in EPIC. They choose to live this way.


An exodite planet is like a less mobile craftworld, but bigger. They have their own army and auxillary, they have knights, they have tanks.


They are less of a support force than the pdf are.

 Hellebore wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

Exodite planets are invaded all the time - biel tan set itself up as galactic exodite protection force because of this perpetual threat.

Also, the Phoenix Rising awakening book had the dragon knights march into the web way to fight alongside their brethren to pay back the protection they'd been afforded.

Hence why I said that they would make a good deal of sense as options in the Craftworld book. Exodites, much like Kroot and the Inquisition, are less "standing army of their own" and more "allied auxiliaries".

And if GW can pull CUSTODES fighting as an army, then nothing else holds water. Not only should they be restricted to planetside, they're only restricted to ONE planet. a planet they were originally sworn to never leave.

How convenient that GW can just wave their hand and the emperor's personal bodyguards can leave the imperial palace, but an exodite king deciding he wants to invade other planets and build an empire is just too much....

Find me where I said I was okay with Custodes as an army. I can wait.

Anyways, Custodes have access to their own ships. And they have the backing of a Primarch.

An Exodite king is, at best, a backwater warlord. If you want to argue that Exodites should be represented in the Craftworlds book? I'll back you 100% on that.

I'm also of the opinion that Planetary Defence Forces should be available as a choice in the Guard book, with 'officers' available as part of an advisory cadre letting Guard units get held back in reserve and artillery positions/defenses as part of what they bring to the table.

Your opinion on whether custodes SHOULD be an army is irrelevant, because GW does and has done so. So the precedent for very narrow justification is there. I'm not trying to justify them. In your paradigm but in GWs.


And i don't know where you get this idea that exodites are backwater. They control their entire planet and have access to the webway. They are where the Eldar knight clans come from and were a force in EPIC. They choose to live this way.


An exodite planet is like a less mobile craftworld, but bigger. They have their own army and auxillary, they have knights, they have tanks.


They are less of a support force than the pdf are.

the point he's making is that custodes have the option to deploy on multiple worlds, exodites don't not really given their fluff.

Also that I don't think Custodes should be an army either.

If you want to argue for Exodites to be an Eldar 'Knight' equivalent army, then go for it. But don't grouse if you do not get any infantry.

If GW updated the guardian kit and some more aspects then they could certainly do Exodites as larger models that splice in core craftworld infantry.

That said I'd not say a Knight equivalent would be my thought. In my view they'd almost be like a Slaanesh Seeker army or an Imperial tank army.

That is few infantry, but a larger portion of medium to large models -which gives them room to have lots of cavalry mounts of various sizes and then various heavier weapons mounted on larger beasts of war.

Heck they could even have some smaller warbeasts with a beast handler much like Dark Eldar have - only without the whip and torture side to it.




I'd certainly thing that Exodites would want to maximise the beast and mount based content as that's a huge central theme for them. It sets them apart from the rest of Eldar and from most other factions in the game (the only one that gets close are Kroot)

TBH I'd rather not have Elven beast riders come to 40k. There's enough of that in AoS.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
TBH I'd rather not have Elven beast riders come to 40k. There's enough of that in AoS.

How can you say no to dinosaurs and lasers?

ScarVet101 wrote:

What would you chose and why?

An actual bug race. Tyranids don't really reflect bugs much other than a swarm. They generally have more lizard like heads than insectoids.

But in all honesty what I would like to see is a collector esque race from Mass Effect.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Tau don't really accept Mercenaries though, rather they accept other reasons into the Greater Good.
I can't see Orks or Eldar folding in like that.

Depends on the subfaction of the Tau. The Farsight Enclaves take in mercs on the regular, even some which you might not expect such as CSM and Orks.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Ok, i would do something really unique.

I'd bring back the slann/old ones as a new army with very few actual models for it, rather they could mind control human ork and eldar forces as their troops since they created those races.

I could see the slann as huge big brained space toads floating on psychic thrones, but to be honest i wouldn't mind seeing them revamped thusly:

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/013/849/875/large/josh-guglielmo-ageoftheatom-com-crawling-eye.jpg?154137035

That looks an awful lot like an Enslaver, which are already a thing in 40k background.

Thr whole point of the Farsight Enclaves is that they're not part of the Tau anymore and do things very differently.

I would not mind seeing something like the old dogs of war from fantasy for 40K. Just a good ol' mix of units from every faction. think it might be fun.

dabogmu wrote:
I would not mind seeing something like the old dogs of war from fantasy for 40K. Just a good ol' mix of units from every faction. think it might be fun.

Hmm, a random bunch of Kill Teams that could be Rogue Marines to a renegade GSC. I like it. Makes more sense than Death Watch as an actual army, imo.

So taking in what people have said I think we can currently sum things up as follows.

Yes we all want the current factions to to be updated first, but this is a wish list thread.

Kroot and possible Vespid to get there own dex but with current units to stay as options in the main box.

The Ynnari could be expanding to take on the Corsairs role, possibly with Exodites as an extra unit or two.

and as a fun maga wish list - a full Grots army

I know there have been some others but hopefully I've picked up the main recurring ones.

With Chaos, I think we've seen hits at things like traitor Guard/Dark Mechanicus making an appearance at some point which, along with the EC & WE we might be along way off a Non human chaos faction, but that would be a great alterative going forward.

Any further thoughts?

Not Online!!! 795425 11035420 wrote:
which is fine i know what happened. Enough to know that for some people affected it wouldn't be funny, however i also feel that the best way to combat these issues is to satirise them. Because in these cases satire shows the true face of the corresponding ideology.

I assume that creators of the game may have had different views on things, being not much effected by WWII or communism in action. For me a grot commisar leading an socialist grot revolution to be funny requires me to, first turn of my memory regarding my families history and then to make a big assumption that there is anything remotely funny soviet implementation of communism. I can not do either of things. And I get angry, because people seem to be okey with this, but get seriously mad about real fur on GW models or about lift differences between male and female IG soldiers.

Karol wrote:

Not Online!!! 795425 11035420 wrote:
which is fine i know what happened. Enough to know that for some people affected it wouldn't be funny, however i also feel that the best way to combat these issues is to satirise them. Because in these cases satire shows the true face of the corresponding ideology.

I assume that creators of the game may have had different views on things, being not much effected by WWII or communism in action. For me a grot commisar leading an socialist grot revolution to be funny requires me to, first turn of my memory regarding my families history and then to make a big assumption that there is anything remotely funny soviet implementation of communism. I can not do either of things. And I get angry, because people seem to be okey with this, but get seriously mad about real fur on GW models or about lift differences between male and female IG soldiers.

Karol no one sane gets upset about fur modeled on GW models. (and yes I know PETA has complained about it I repeat "NO ONE SANE")

Karol wrote:

Not Online!!! 795425 11035420 wrote:
which is fine i know what happened. Enough to know that for some people affected it wouldn't be funny, however i also feel that the best way to combat these issues is to satirise them. Because in these cases satire shows the true face of the corresponding ideology.

I assume that creators of the game may have had different views on things, being not much effected by WWII or communism in action. For me a grot commisar leading an socialist grot revolution to be funny requires me to, first turn of my memory regarding my families history and then to make a big assumption that there is anything remotely funny soviet implementation of communism. I can not do either of things. And I get angry, because people seem to be okey with this, but get seriously mad about real fur on GW models or about lift differences between male and female IG soldiers.

Different people get angry at different things. For you it's Soviet Communism or Nazism (not unreasonable) for me maybe it's colonialism and in particular British Colonialism (I'm Irish) for someone else it's depictions of non-binary gender as monstrous in a Slaanesh army, for someone else it's how Savage Orcs are potrayed and for another person it's Orientalism in how the Tau are presented.

No need to really worry about what anyone else gets annoyed by. Everyone's got their own family history, foibles and things that just get to them. No need to compare between all these things and decide that this thing is valid and this other thing is invalid or whatever. But hey, it's an emotional reaction so no argument can talk you out of it, just maybe something to reflect on when getting annoyed at other people. I find it helps me.

Guys, there is no nation on earth that is innocent. Irish slave raids on England & Wales in the Dark Ages, and their 18th century slave trade. Polish slave raiding in the Medieval period and the violence against minorities today? The English invented the concentration camp in S. Africa, and have a very short list of countries they have not invaded. People do bad things, given the chance. Try not to let it happen.

Little toy soldiers should not be blown out of proportion :-)

BrianDavion wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

Your opinion on whether custodes SHOULD be an army is irrelevant, because GW does and has done so. So the precedent for very narrow justification is there. I'm not trying to justify them. In your paradigm but in GWs.


And i don't know where you get this idea that exodites are backwater. They control their entire planet and have access to the webway. They are where the Eldar knight clans come from and were a force in EPIC. They choose to live this way.


An exodite planet is like a less mobile craftworld, but bigger. They have their own army and auxillary, they have knights, they have tanks.


They are less of a support force than the pdf are.

the point he's making is that custodes have the option to deploy on multiple worlds, exodites don't not really given their fluff.

And Hellebore is pointing out that exodites have always had webway access and armies since their creation. Getting small scale (non-craftworld) attack ships and transports isn't even a problem. Exodites have no problem at all deploying on multiple worlds, and have done so already in GW games.

Moriarty wrote:
Guys, there is no nation on earth that is innocent. Irish slave raids on England & Wales in the Dark Ages, and their 18th century slave trade. Polish slave raiding in the Medieval period and the violence against minorities today? The English invented the concentration camp in S. Africa, and have a very short list of countries they have not invaded. People do bad things, given the chance. Try not to let it happen.

Little toy soldiers should not be blown out of proportion :-)

Yeah, that is the point of my post. It wasn't an attack on the English. If I wanted to pick the worst crime of Ireland I would go a lot closer to the present day with the treatment of women and "illegitimate" children or other people who didn't fit in "Holy Catholic Ireland" in the various institutions and so on.

Voss wrote:
And Hellebore is pointing out that exodites have always had webway access and armies since their creation. Getting small scale (non-craftworld) attack ships and transports isn't even a problem. Exodites have no problem at all deploying on multiple worlds, and have done so already in GW games.

And that doesn't even consider the fact that the Corsairs might do recruiting drives among them. It not like HOW the forces in question got on to a planet are ever a consideration a mission (save for things like Deep Strike).

Da Boss wrote:

Moriarty wrote:
Guys, there is no nation on earth that is innocent. Irish slave raids on England & Wales in the Dark Ages, and their 18th century slave trade. Polish slave raiding in the Medieval period and the violence against minorities today? The English invented the concentration camp in S. Africa, and have a very short list of countries they have not invaded. People do bad things, given the chance. Try not to let it happen.

Little toy soldiers should not be blown out of proportion :-)

Yeah, that is the point of my post. It wasn't an attack on the English. If I wanted to pick the worst crime of Ireland I would go a lot closer to the present day with the treatment of women and "illegitimate" children or other people who didn't fit in "Holy Catholic Ireland" in the various institutions and so on.

Either way, this subject is off-topic for both this thread and the board. Take it elsewhere the lot of you, please.

I could see a rogue trader army list with a lot of stuff from other army lists. Kroot mercs, IG units, maybe even some eldar on a "You may take the wealth you crave, human, if you allow us to gather the stones we seek, we assure you they will not be used against your race in any way."