Them poster boys. We get blasted with all sorts of novels and named character releases for Ultramarines, but I have always wondered how justified that is. In personal experience, I have never met anyone who actually likes them, let alone plays them. Every Ultramarines named character release is a model that could have been generic or for another chapter, and almost every SM release is a canvas of blue. What's your experience?
Dan Abnett rescued them for me in Know No Fear. They're not my favorite, but they're at least capable of being interesting. Even if most of GW's authors haven't figured that out yet.
I technically don't play Ultramarines. I play Fulminators chapter Primaris Marines, but can't be bothered with further cheesing an already powerful codex+supplement by choosing my ow chapter traits. So, 90% of the time I'm playing Ultramarines with the wrong chapter symbol on their left shoulders. I'll run some unique Ultramarines characters, Tigerius and Cassius being my favorites, both often finding their way in to my lists.
I'm a fan of the lore and the themes behind them, avoiding the more wankfest interpretations and chalking it up to BL writers tending to shovel out bolter porn. Ultramarines aren't any more ultra in the novels when you consider how powerful any other random chapter is, when they're in their own book.
I like their style on the board, or at least how I interpret their style in an all-primaris format (ignoring Cassius and the FW Dreads I use). Shoot the Fighty, Fight the Shooty, take up the midfield with aggressors and intercessors, bother the backfield with inceptors, bombard with Redemptor and Deredeo dreadnoughts from relatively further back.
Ultramarines are cool, it's just a bunch of neckbeards are mad that nobody cares about their fanfic/unknown founding/doesn't follow the codex/totally defies the Imperium to save humanity garbage. It's cringe, people.
Dan Abnett rescued them for me in Know No Fear. They're not my favorite, but they're at least capable of being interesting. Even if most of GW's authors haven't figured that out yet.
Couldn't agree more. Up to that point I actually kind of hated them, but now, I find I actually like them and sort of wish my giant chapter-sized collection wasn't painted like Red Hunters.
When I was younger I disliked them because of how ostensibly boring they were in relation to all the other factions. Why would I want these guys who just follow the rules and do the best they can and are essentially a walking, talking GI Joe PSA, when I could have vampires in power armor with a guy literally known as the "Lord of Death". I mean what's cooler? "Marneus Calgar", or, "The Lord of Death"?
But since then, I've come to really appreciate how comparatively "normal" they are compared to the rest of the grimdark. It's kind of nice to have this chapter that isn't brimming with bizzare mutations and always hiding something from someone and are, as much as anyone can be in 40k, "the good guys". Abnett really helped this along with several of his Ultramarines books though.
They don't bother me as the poster boys, there are more interesting chapters out there for sure. Know No Fear definitely improved their image in my eyes, but I think you can thank Abnett for that one.
Lore, novels, etc? Completely neutral. I simply don't care.
Rules? OK.
Models? Especially the current UM specific stuff? Although this doesn't even apply to my own UM army as it's built of exclusively RT era stuff.
I appreciate Ultramarines for their honesty. They do not pretend to have a more interesting concept than they do, they are just purely and unapologetically mary sues and make no attempt to disguise that fact.
Every special character they have can be described as "Like Generic HQ, But The Best At That Thing." All their stuff is shiny and gaudy and basic and blatant. They pull that classic literary trick of the mary sue where pretty much any reasonable human being reading about them would find them grating and irritating holier than thou goody two-shoes, and they further antagonize the reader by twisting the rules of the universe such that everyone is constantly praising and adoring them.
Many other marine chapters get to hide behind the excuse of "n-no! My marines are flawed, intricate characters with MANY depths and very good characterization - t-they're not just a one dimensional power fantasy that I cling to desperately while I'm working my middle management position in a giant corporation that doesn't care about me! Sometimes my Red Marines kill so many people that they just go bezerk and start killing and killing and doing even more awesome badass murder stunts and they can't even STOP, they are so flawed!"
Ultramarines don't do that. That's great. "We're the best, that's our thing. The best at being best. The besterest. Ultra-best."
They may be just the tiniest bit obsolete at this point - Custodes and before them New Lore Grey Knights kind of moved in on the exact same ball game and visually speaking the fact that theyre just one single unblemished shiny color helps to immediately get the point across.
From a gameplay perspective too Custodes and Imperial Knights kind of out-ultramarine the ultramarines. Forcing a marine player to play against Custodes or Knights can help them to gain the valuable perspective of how obnoxious it is to deal with 40k's Constantly Escalating Eliteness problem.
Many other marine chapters get to hide behind the excuse of "n-no! My marines are flawed, intricate characters with MANY depths and very good characterization - t-they're not just a one dimensional power fantasy that I cling to desperately while I'm working my middle management position in a giant corporation that doesn't care about me! Sometimes my Red Marines kill so many people that they just go bezerk and start killing and killing and doing even more awesome badass murder stunts and they can't even STOP, they are so flawed!"
I went through all possible choices in the poll and from 2-5 I thought "Ah, yeah that fits"
So, they're of course the most boring faction in all of 40K because they're simply the generic faction. If you paint them just like the picture on the box says you'll have the most boring army in the game without any speciality - and that can probably be appealing if you do already have 3 other, more interesting armies.
However, if I'd do Ultramarines I'd put every roman insignia, tabards and crest on them I can find and would totally flanderize them like no tomorrow, making them awesome Graeco-Roman legion in space - and that's what Ultramarines can do, too.
So... if you take them right from the box they're probably my least favorite SM faction next to Imperial Fists, which are just as boring but with an even worse color scheme and fewer special characters. However, they do have potential if you're a competent hobbyist. I don't see that potential in Imperial Fists, to be honest. You can probably do a yellow that's not so shiny and give them some heavy weathering, but they'll still be "the other generic SM faction".
Many other marine chapters get to hide behind the excuse of "n-no! My marines are flawed, intricate characters with MANY depths and very good characterization - t-they're not just a one dimensional power fantasy that I cling to desperately while I'm working my middle management position in a giant corporation that doesn't care about me! Sometimes my Red Marines kill so many people that they just go bezerk and start killing and killing and doing even more awesome badass murder stunts and they can't even STOP, they are so flawed!"
So true!
Fun minigame: Try to come up with a space marine chapter flaw that isn't
1) totally cosmetic and a distinction that basically just amounts to 'paint them slightly different'
or
2) something that is just in and of itself a common power fantasy trope.
Dark Angels: Their flaw is that they have to be super secret agents and if anyone finds out their deep dark secrets they have to kill them
Blood Angels: Their flaw is that they turn into badass totally unstoppable crazy I'm The Joker Baby psycho murderers because they just really want dat revenge
Space Wolves: They turn into weird furry art versions of werewolves doing goofy ballerina/ninja poses OK granted this is a real downside guys. I'll give you that one, that is 100% a fate worse than death.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sgt. Cortez wrote: I went through all possible choices in the poll and from 2-5 I thought "Ah, yeah that fits"
So, they're of course the most boring faction in all of 40K because they're simply the generic faction. If you paint them just like the picture on the box says you'll have the most boring army in the game without any speciality - and that can probably be appealing if you do already have 3 other, more interesting armies.
However, if I'd do Ultramarines I'd put every roman insignia, tabards and crest on them I can find and would totally flanderize them like no tomorrow, making them awesome Graeco-Roman legion in space - and that's what Ultramarines can do, too.
So... if you take them right from the box they're probably my least favorite SM faction next to Imperial Fists, which are just as boring but with an even worse color scheme and fewer special characters. However, they do have potential if you're a competent hobbyist. I don't see that potential in Imperial Fists, to be honest. You can probably do a yellow that's not so shiny and give them some heavy weathering, but they'll still be "the other generic SM faction".
^imperial fists do have a definitive flaw in that they are painted yellow.
White scars and imperial fists players, you're off the hook.
Galas wrote: I don't care about canon Ultramarines, their aventures and their characters but I like roman-like blue marines.
Dude, same.
Very little about the Ultramarine's lore is particularly interesting to me, and I find most of the writing done on them in the last 15 years or so has been really poorly handled, but their actual art and imagery and visuals work really well for the setting as a whole.
Galas wrote: I don't care about canon Ultramarines, their aventures and their characters but I like roman-like blue marines.
Dude, same.
Very little about the Ultramarine's lore is particularly interesting to me, and I find most of the writing done on them in the last 15 years or so has been really poorly handled, but their actual art and imagery and visuals work really well for the setting as a whole.
Meh. They're a little clean. Give me templars or dark angels visually.
Fun minigame: Try to come up with a space marine chapter flaw that isn't
1) totally cosmetic and a distinction that basically just amounts to 'paint them slightly different'
or
2) something that is just in and of itself a common power fantasy trope.
Dark Angels: Their flaw is that they have to be super secret agents and if anyone finds out their deep dark secrets they have to kill them
Blood Angels: Their flaw is that they turn into badass totally unstoppable crazy I'm The Joker Baby psycho murderers because they just really want dat revenge
Space Wolves: They turn into weird furry art versions of werewolves doing goofy ballerina/ninja poses OK granted this is a real downside guys. I'll give you that one, that is 100% a fate worse than death.
What's that chapter with the bone spikes growing out of their elbows? That would count right? lol
As for the chapters you listed, my feelings on them have changed over the years. Where they would have been my favorites at one time, it is now more like:
Dark Angels: Stay away from me man. I have feelings.
Blood Angels: Stay away from me man. You can't even comprehend the DEPTHS of my feelings.
Space Wolves: Let's all drink our feelings!
Ultramarines: This war doesn't care about your feelings. Now quit "emoing" and get up and help us win it!
Also yes - Fists players get a pass as being "yellow" is perhaps the greatest flaw of all ...
They're fine! thought when i first started playing many a year ago they were my arch enemies because the only other person i knew who played the game played them... and the rivalry lingers.
I like them. They got memed on a lot and a lot of people really did not like their matt ward fluff back in 5th ed, which was bad, but got a bit blown out of proportion over the years and sort of took on a life of its own.
I like that they are clearly modeled after the roman legions. I like that they are a somewhat reasonable chapter that managed to create and a manage a prosperous empire with ultramar. It's a nice contrast to the savage space wolves, the brooding dark angels and the noble but bloodthirsty blood angels. They are efficient, loyal and effective and its no wonder that they are the poster boys for space marines.
Guilliman also got memed on a lot, but I think they actually managed to write him as an interesting character who is thrust into a terribly broken, stupid imperium and is trying to pick up the pieces. He's still a xenophobic autocrat, but there is worse stuff in the imperium.
I'm not that fond of the blue color scheme though.
Blue and gold is a solid colour scheme, and the insignia is comparatively easy to paint. They're open to just about any interpretation of what a Space Marine should look like as well - you can have the very ornate and detailed greco-roman aesthetic, you can have the quite minimalist "flat armour panels" look, or they can fit into the "spec-ops pouches and stealth" idea - they cover every base without specialising, and that's nice for allowing people to collect whatever takes their fancy.
A lot of the more recent Ultramarine writing (Know No Fear/Knights of Macragge) is pretty damn nice, and Guilliman's one of my favourite Primarchs for being just generally straight-laced, but not a dick about it. The Ward stuff is mostly exaggeration anyway.
But yeah, Ultras were my first Chapter, and while I debated long and hard about it, I settled on Ultras for 30k as well - I just liked my boys in blue too much.
UM? Most bland faction in the game. And no, being Tyranids hunters isn't good enough. They are the Orlocks of 40K and that's not a compliment.
The only chapter which is worse are the Space Wolves. Going all crazy about wolves, including riding them and having werewolves in the ranks ruined them. Ah, and don't forget Santa Sled.
I like Ultramarines. However, I do think Games Workshop should really figure out a better solution for Ultramarins being the box art faction and including fluff campaigns in many of their boxed sets featuring them. I mean the Ultramarines have been involved with the events of Dark Imperium, Vigilius, Shadowspear (which I think was still the Vigilus System) and now the Pariah Crusade (Indomitus campaign). Which could still work if it were more than just the Second Company doing all this. Even with timey-wimey Warp shenanigans, the Ultramarines, particularly the 2nd Company, are running out of margins to fit more adventures in via GW. Let alone any player that also wants to play the Ultramarines 2nd Company.
Hey, Games Workshop. Stop hogging the Ultramarines 2nd Company. Let some of the players that also have them get in some stories with them. The galaxy is a big place and there are lots of other chapters many of which I have seen you have in your studio. Maybe let them some of them be the space marines in those stories. They still be blue if that's a concern. What have the Emperor's Hands been up to? (not the ones on the Golden Throne, they have done nothin' for a good long while) The Star Dragons? Fulminators? Dark Hunters?
I have a huge soft spot for them as I collected a big force of them in 2nd Ed (back when it was blue and yellow, none of this blue and gold nonsense). I loved the Tyranids storylines of those days but I’m not too fussed on Reboot Guilleman and haven’t read up on what they’re up to now, I’ve moved on to Blood Angels for my marine fix.
That blue is similar to how I'm doing my Fists (As Tycho said...yellow is a disability) that my buddy stumbled upon...
You prime with Leadbelcher and point with Contrast. It helps to mitigate the biggest flaw of contrast paints: flat pannels get splotchy really easy. With Metalics under it it's much easier to hide that and you also get a very sexy color. Like a colored metalic vs metal with paint on it.
Makes my First "look" gold but you can still tell it's Yellow. It's super cool.
But at least they're not stuck with the trope that 'damage' (particularly mental trauma) is the same thing as 'character.'
This. Oh man this. It's so irritating to see 8 foot tall warrior monk perfect soldier types go all emo. The guard has infinitely more reasons, and they still don't, not even the Death Korps. This is the main reason I love the Imperial Fists, despite hating the yellow. They just get on with it.
I never much cared one way or the other about them to begin with. Didn't dislike them any more than I disliked any other Space Marine Chapter. I enjoyed their portrayal in the Horus Heresy books, though.
Pretty neutral. I've not really had much contact with their fluff despite playing 40K since 2nd edition. I've never played marines that use the default codex and I tend to avoid black library fiction where the the main protagonists are space marines for precisely the reason people hate on the ultras - it is easy to write marines as boring, overly flanderised and without interesting personalities and put too much focus on bolter p0rn and power fantasy over interesting plot. The exception is the horus heresy series which I've been working through but I haven't got to a book where ultras are the focus. I found the Imperial Fists pretty annoying and douchey, maybe the Ultras will rub me that way too. I did hear about what Ward did to them and was repulsed by the silly extremes of fanboyism it went to, and likewise the ultramarines film, but in both cases my ire was more directed at GW for frequently writing bad fluff that goes overboard on how awesome the protagonists are. It isn't a problem specific to the Ultramarines, even if they are a frequent victim. The concept of Roman marines is nice but I don't think the Ultras actually express it enough in their models.
On the table Ultramarines are actually surprisingly rare in my experience. I hardly ever see them (maybe people avoid them for being too generic?). When I do they usually have terrible "my first army" paint jobs that look like they've been dipped in thick paint (because they are and they have). I'd actually really welcome seeing a well painted Ultramarine force on the table for the sheer novelty of it.
I like them enough that I made an army of 'em back in 8th from the starter box. Still like 'em in 9th.
That's a nice looking blue. What paint did you use for it?
Get out the Airbrush!
Primer stynylrez primer black
Vallejo Air Gunmetal Metallic 71.072
Vallejo Air Chrome 71.064 in zenithal highlights
Brush GW Drakenhof Nightshade in the recesses to create shadows. The model should still be silver when you are done!
Airbrush Tamiya Clear Blue. Very thin coats. Usually 3-4 layers, wait minimum 12 hours between layers because Tamiya clear is an alcohol based acrylic that just takes a really long time to dry.
From there, it was standard brush work for the bolters, eye lenses, pouches, backpack vents. Decals, and then the bases.
The Sergeants had heads painted in Tamiya Clear Red instead of Clear Blue. The Lieutenants- I just could not get the white and red stripe in the metallic red. So it's just white with a red painted stripe.
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:@Tamwulf
That blue. You have the Ultra-est marines. Incredible job.
It's funny because I call them Ultra Ultramarines
Stormonu wrote:@Tamwulf - excellent paint job!
Thank you! That was the "Oh crap! I have a tournament this weekend and my Redemptor and Redeemer isn't even close to being finished!" I've since finished them up with more details.
This whole army was painted before contrast paints. As an experiment, I tried to replicate the look and it just never came close to the same shade of blue and glossiness of the armor.
I don't like or dislike them. Typically I like roman themed stuff for the historical nature but I don't love these guys. They are just too bland for me.
Bitharne wrote: That blue is similar to how I'm doing my Fists (As Tycho said...yellow is a disability) that my buddy stumbled upon...
You prime with Leadbelcher and point with Contrast. It helps to mitigate the biggest flaw of contrast paints: flat pannels get splotchy really easy. With Metalics under it it's much easier to hide that and you also get a very sexy color. Like a colored metalic vs metal with paint on it.
Makes my First "look" gold but you can still tell it's Yellow. It's super cool.
I didn't use contrast. It's Tamiya Clear Blue over Silver, a candy apple blue My Ultra Ultra Marines are a gloss blue on the armor. This was a WiP of my Captain in Gravis armor:
I like them as described in codex, although a lot of their fiction isn't of very high quality. They seem to get hit with a lot of bolter porn.
I'm reading the Uriel chronicles right now, and (while surely better than what I could write) it just does not seem to be very good. It leans very heavily onto the behaviors of a modern professional soldier, which seems at odds to the monastic warrior culture the codex presents. While at the same time making odd writing choices and plotline. I'm giving it a chance though, and maybe it will grow on me.
argonak wrote: I like them as described in codex, although a lot of their fiction isn't of very high quality. They seem to get hit with a lot of bolter porn.
I'm reading the Uriel chronicles right now, and (while surely better than what I could write) it just does not seem to be very good. It leans very heavily onto the behaviors of a modern professional soldier, which seems at odds to the monastic warrior culture the codex presents. While at the same time making odd writing choices and plotline. I'm giving it a chance though, and maybe it will grow on me.
I think the writing for each Chapter is different in 40K. Looking at the Horus Heresy books, the Space Marine Legions were pretty much professional soldiers. It wasn't until the end of Great Crusade and Horus being named Warmaster that the Legions really started to diverge (and much of that had to do with Horus from what I understand). The Emperor made each Legion with certain traits that after he went into seclusion, was pretty much left unchecked except for the Thousand Sons when they went too far and gained his attention for their blasphemy and were censored by the Space Wolves.
Anyways... Ultramarines are more like Roman Soldiers, AKA some of the first Professional Soldiers seen in history. Because of the influence Chaos, all Space Marines are susceptible to its influence. The only defense is prayer and meditation. The result is you get the 40K books about Ultramarines are written as if they were Roman Soldiers. Dark Angels as if they were Medieval Knights, Imperial Fists as Greek Scholar Warriors, Space Wolves as Vikings, etc. etc. And they all take some traits from various social-political-militaristic groups from throughout history. If a book mentions other Space Marine Chapters, they almost always reference them as Warrior Monks unless they are one of the First Founding Chapters or one of the big named ones (Black Templars, Grey Knights, Flesh Terrors, Blood Ravens just to name a few).
Pretty sure the editor of Black Library has a list of the traits each writer is supposed to use when they write about the various Chapters.
I don't "hate" them but I really dislike how they hog the narrative. It's really annoying how in a setting that spans countless stars that the same group of ~1000 space marines are involved in a large amount of conflicts. It takes away from fleshing out the other major chapters and/or letting some other made up chapter get an opportunity to do something and have some potentially interesting characters to explore.
I really despise bringing back Gulliman which again feeds into the Ultramarine centric narrative that GW keeps pushing. It feels very on the nose and comes across as more of that Matt Ward gak about Ultras being the shinning example that all chapters should strive to be (and replace all your marines with our +1 Space Marines). Bleh it's agitating just thinking about this stuff.
They've been my favorite chapter sine I started in 2nd ed. Imo they're the ideal baseline Space Marine. Straight forward, efficient, logistically minded and concerned about post-war rebuilding. Their Primarch seemed the most reasonable as well.
I wish they weren't such huge poster boys, but they canonically are the most influential chapter, having more subsequent foundings based on their line, and codifying the Codex Astartes.
Their current Chapter tactics rules are also the most traditional marine take, as their rules are very close to the old ATSKNF.
I hate that Gulliman is awake and basically undoing the classic marine squad formats. New fluff sucks.
Insectum7 wrote: They've been my favorite chapter sine I started in 2nd ed. Imo they're the ideal baseline Space Marine. Straight forward, efficient, logistically minded and concerned about post-war rebuilding. Their Primarch seemed the most reasonable as well.
I wish they weren't such huge poster boys, but they canonically are the most influential chapter, having more subsequent foundings based on their line, and codifying the Codex Astartes.
Their current Chapter tactics rules are also the most traditional marine take, as their rules are very close to the old ATSKNF.
I hate that Gulliman is awake and basically undoing the classic marine squad formats. New fluff sucks.
As far as I'm concerned, you are the true primarch of the ultramarines. Keep it old school brother.
Insectum7 wrote: They've been my favorite chapter sine I started in 2nd ed. Imo they're the ideal baseline Space Marine. Straight forward, efficient, logistically minded and concerned about post-war rebuilding. Their Primarch seemed the most reasonable as well.
I wish they weren't such huge poster boys, but they canonically are the most influential chapter, having more subsequent foundings based on their line, and codifying the Codex Astartes.
Their current Chapter tactics rules are also the most traditional marine take, as their rules are very close to the old ATSKNF.
I hate that Gulliman is awake and basically undoing the classic marine squad formats. New fluff sucks.
As far as I'm concerned, you are the true primarch of the ultramarines. Keep it old school brother.
Lol. I'll take it. Thanks!
As for old school, my second battle company will be entirely RT era models. I'm looking forward to starting that project.
Vankraken wrote: I don't "hate" them but I really dislike how they hog the narrative. It's really annoying how in a setting that spans countless stars that the same group of ~1000 space marines are involved in a large amount of conflicts. It takes away from fleshing out the other major chapters and/or letting some other made up chapter get an opportunity to do something and have some potentially interesting characters to explore.
Exactly where I am at too. I just see a ton of missed opportunity to do... literally anyone else.
As for other chapters and their flaws/not-flaw flaws I personally think some depends on the writing quality. Like Blood Angels are specifically going for the archetype of 'vampire struggling with blood addiction' and when they are written that way, as struggling addicts, it comes across much better. Dark Angels the real flaw isn't the fallen, it is how ludicrously extreme they have gotten about pursuing them. All the near-treasonous crap they pull in the name of hunting just one or two heretics has done more damage to the Imperium over the years than the Fallen ever did themselves. When that inherent irony is made evident they come through a lot more like fanatics and a lot less like pissy emo teens. Space Wolves... I don't think the wulfen/curse of the wulfen fluff is written very well. Somewhere between concept and execution it feels like the writers got a bit lost and what we have feels like the sort of empty kinda-means-something blather you put in a high school essay.
It's like, clearly there is a desire to do werewolves, but there also seems to be a desire to not do werewolves, and so we end up with miniatures of not-werewolf werewolves.
I like reading old Rogue Trader era 40K fluff, and there's plenty of that about the Ultra-Marines (as they were called back then). I like all of the fiddly uniform details and and the four different Marneus Calgar models they've released. Most of the novels about them aren't very good, but I'm a devoted Ultramarines player.
They're all right, not my favorite chapter but I like them just fine. Know No Fear is gak though, incredibly overrated book.
the_scotsman wrote: I appreciate Ultramarines for their honesty. They do not pretend to have a more interesting concept than they do, they are just purely and unapologetically mary sues and make no attempt to disguise that fact.
Every special character they have can be described as "Like Generic HQ, But The Best At That Thing." All their stuff is shiny and gaudy and basic and blatant. They pull that classic literary trick of the mary sue where pretty much any reasonable human being reading about them would find them grating and irritating holier than thou goody two-shoes, and they further antagonize the reader by twisting the rules of the universe such that everyone is constantly praising and adoring them.
Many other marine chapters get to hide behind the excuse of "n-no! My marines are flawed, intricate characters with MANY depths and very good characterization - t-they're not just a one dimensional power fantasy that I cling to desperately while I'm working my middle management position in a giant corporation that doesn't care about me! Sometimes my Red Marines kill so many people that they just go bezerk and start killing and killing and doing even more awesome badass murder stunts and they can't even STOP, they are so flawed!"
Ultramarines don't do that. That's great. "We're the best, that's our thing. The best at being best. The besterest. Ultra-best."
They may be just the tiniest bit obsolete at this point - Custodes and before them New Lore Grey Knights kind of moved in on the exact same ball game and visually speaking the fact that theyre just one single unblemished shiny color helps to immediately get the point across.
From a gameplay perspective too Custodes and Imperial Knights kind of out-ultramarine the ultramarines. Forcing a marine player to play against Custodes or Knights can help them to gain the valuable perspective of how obnoxious it is to deal with 40k's Constantly Escalating Eliteness problem.
^ This dude is so bitter and angry about Space Marines all the time it's hilarious.
Lorewise they're my orks' nemesis since 3rd edition, so in my mind they're the classic villains.
It doesn't help the fact that SM are objectively annoying due to GW politics. Last but not least I can't stand how primaris look, so yeah Ultramarines are definitely the faction that I dislike the most.
Insectum7 wrote: They've been my favorite chapter sine I started in 2nd ed. Imo they're the ideal baseline Space Marine. Straight forward, efficient, logistically minded and concerned about post-war rebuilding. Their Primarch seemed the most reasonable as well.
I wish they weren't such huge poster boys, but they canonically are the most influential chapter, having more subsequent foundings based on their line, and codifying the Codex Astartes.
Their current Chapter tactics rules are also the most traditional marine take, as their rules are very close to the old ATSKNF.
I hate that Gulliman is awake and basically undoing the classic marine squad formats. New fluff sucks.
Nobody cares about logistics like the Ultramarines! But i'm in the same boat here. I've liked them since second and overall they've been a personal little fan favorite of mine amongst the Space Marines (Though I still lean Chaos )
Just Tony wrote: I'm painting my Chaos force as Ultramarines 1st Company, that should tell you how I feel...
This doesn't tell me nearly enough. If you're painting heretic Ultramarines, it either means they're your favorite army in the game, or you hate them more than anything else
Lorewise they're my orks' nemesis since 3rd edition, so in my mind they're the classic villains.
It doesn't help the fact that SM are objectively annoying due to GW politics. Last but not least I can't stand how primaris look, so yeah Ultramarines are definitely the faction that I dislike the most.
Lorewise they're my orks' nemesis since 3rd edition, so in my mind they're the classic villains.
It doesn't help the fact that SM are objectively annoying due to GW politics. Last but not least I can't stand how primaris look, so yeah Ultramarines are definitely the faction that I dislike the most.
No? I think even SM players are annoyed by the massive amount of releases, books, rules bloat that GW feeds them .
Lorewise they're my orks' nemesis since 3rd edition, so in my mind they're the classic villains.
It doesn't help the fact that SM are objectively annoying due to GW politics. Last but not least I can't stand how primaris look, so yeah Ultramarines are definitely the faction that I dislike the most.
No? I think even SM players are annoyed by the massive amount of releases, books, rules bloat that GW feeds them .
"Objective" doesn't mean "widely regarded" or even "universally regarded." It means that something is true according to all observable scientific fact, and anyone who disagrees is factually incorrect. For instance, it is an objective fact that gravity exists, and anyone who says otherwise would be objectively wrong. Something can't be objectively annoying, because whether someone is annoyed or not inherently differs between person to person. If there's one person on the planet who isn't annoyed by Space Marines' releases, power, or playstyle, they can't be objectively annoying, and I think we both know there are some people who fall into that category on this very forum.
You can of course use the word "objectively" as hyperbole, as can you the word "literally," but people get upset when they hear that because they're objectively wrong (and I do mean objectively).
I'm ambivalent on Ultramarines. I started in 2e when it was all about the Blood Angels, and I mostly knew about the Ultramarines as being the ones that stuck to the Codex rigidly and had a big cool fight with the Tyranids. And that was pretty good I thought - there has to be a chapter that is sticking to the codex as an example since all the other chapters are super special snowflakes. They are the Cyclops of the Imperium (from X-Men. Same colour scheme too).
I am not a fan of the bright blue and yellow colour scheme but no worries.
Then around 5e they started to change the background and Matt Ward kind of went off on one, went a bit mad I would say. So now they are the ULTRA marines, the best, the absolute most wonderful, special, awesome most awesome goody good guys.
And that is a bit lame? I see that as in universe propaganda, I figure the actual Ultramarines are probably just as weird and brutal as the average chapter.
I like the Heresy presentation, with them trying to figure out a future for themselves where they are not warriors, and building their "perfect society" (of xenophobic weirdos). I like how the Heresy Ultras were actually supposed to be open minded, and how that was twisted afterwards into the Codex, and the stuff with the secondary Imperium is cool.
The modern stuff with their primarch coming back and them being the protagonists in the background? Blech. 40K should not have protagonists, it's a setting not a story, and having these big comic book style characters running around is bad for the setting. So I am not a fan of that at all. But that's not the ultras fault and if someone wants to play the Codex following basic marines because they like that, and they like the blue and gold roman look, then I say go for it, no judgement here.
My own marines are Crimson Fists, because dark red and dark blue looks cooler.
I like them from way back, when BA were the face of the WH40K Marines (was 2nd or 3rd edition I think ?). I played Epic back then, not 40K.
I went on a 40K hiatus for a long time, and when I come back they are everywhere.
I still like them, don't mind that their Primarch is back to advance the narrative, but I wish other factions (including other SM Chapters) got more attention.
You can of course use the word "objectively" as hyperbole, as can you the word "literally," but people get upset when they hear that because they're objectively wrong (and I do mean objectively).
Thanks for clarifying . I actually did know that I was using the word as hyperbole but I didn't realized that people could get upset by it. Here in Italy the litteral translation of the word "objectively" has the same meaning you described but it's also commonly referred to "widely/universally regarded".
Nothing against Ultramarines and they have a beginner friendly paint scheme. More interested in other chapters though, such as the Tome Keepers and Blood Ravens.
Just Tony wrote: I'm painting my Chaos force as Ultramarines 1st Company, that should tell you how I feel...
This doesn't tell me nearly enough. If you're painting heretic Ultramarines, it either means they're your favorite army in the game, or you hate them more than anything else
As a Crimson Fists player, NOTHING pissed me off more than people saying "Oh, you play Ultramarines!" I've suffered that gak from 2nd on to 5th, where Ward made it clear there are three types of Marines: Ultramarines, We Wish We Were Ultramarines, and We'll Never Be Able To Be Ultramarines."
Ultramarines from Ultramar.. Never been a fan. Even since Rogue Trader, other chapters have just felt cooler (And the Crimson Fists were the poster bois of that era)
Sure enough, blue is among the easiest acrylic colour to paint, and the upside down omega symbol easy to freehand, but they feel too much like goody-two-shoes; In my personal headcanon, Marines have always been psychos with daddy issues and not some white knights Sicariusing away.
Little Timmy also plays them so it gives a bit of a cognitive bias for an older mongrel like myself.. If someone claims Space Marines are the heroes of the setting and the IoM are the "good guys", I can never agree with them on anything.
I've always felt the crimson fists would be better poster boys, both narratively and visually. The slightly darker shade and red accents bring things down from BLUEBLUEBLUE as well as subtly implying the darker setting while still being light enough to make details readily visible. They aren't super specialized but they don't suffer from being extremely generic either--if anything it feels like Ultramarines are specialized in being super well-rounded at everything.
I'm a weird one in that sometimes seeing things get blown up or take severe casualties in fiction makes me like them more.
I used to hate the Arquitens in Star Wars, until Rebels blew one up every other week.
I also used to hate the Ultramarines, but now after listening to Know No Fear, I've got a 30k army mostly comprised of Infantry of varying kinds, including 60 Legion Tactical Marines.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I've always felt the crimson fists would be better poster boys, both narratively and visually. The slightly darker shade and red accents bring things down from BLUEBLUEBLUE as well as subtly implying the darker setting while still being light enough to make details readily visible. They aren't super specialized but they don't suffer from being extremely generic either--if anything it feels like Ultramarines are specialized in being super well-rounded at everything.
I always associate the fist symbol with Space Marines. Fits their psycho transhuman nazi depiction
Not my first army, but the one I stuck with. For a few reasons. One was the paint. The blue was a lot easier to do than red. The other was playstyle. Back in 3rd (when I was making thew call to keep expanding the couple squads I had painted for them rather than continue my BAs) Ultras were underdogs. But they did their job like proper soldiers; you told them to hold the line, they did it. None of this running amuck on a 6, and refusing to move crap. Other chapters were marines++. They did everything we could, but with extra whistles and bells. But we just kept on marching for Macragge, with courage and honour. It wasn’t until fairly recently that Ultras got slapped with the OP tag.
Some of the fluff is crazy. Some is stupid. This could be said about most chapters, but Ultras, being in the spotlight, take the brunt of it. The Ward era did not help with this, with his fanboy hyperbole. And is, I think, the core of the memeing of Ultra hate.
Ultras are not without flaws. But it’s nothing obvious, like turning into vampires or werewolves. It’s pride. Good old fashioned hubris, which has been laying low heroes since antiquity. Which fits nicely with the roman flavor of the chapter. We don’t deal with new things well, or sudden changes. We’re Ultramarines, we can take ‘em; we’re better than they are, perfect in the art of war. After we get our teeth kicked in however, we’ll be back for another try, after learning from our failure. It’s not the stubborn tenacity of the Fists (they would never fall back to lick their wounds and learn, they would fight to the last man, taking such a price for their blood that the foe would not recover) or just overcoming the odds and winning the first time (do Space Wolves ever loose?). Just a little pride and practicality at work.
I'm neutral. After they got past the cringe-worthy Wardian fluff in 5th, they got normalized again as the Codex Astartes standard of what a chapter was supposed to be, so I'm pretty apathetic towards them. They're not egregiously annoying in fluff or gimmicky like SW are, nor are they bad looking visually so at worst I feel apathetic towards them as a faction.
As a Crimson Fists player, NOTHING pissed me off more than people saying "Oh, you play Ultramarines!" I've suffered that gak from 2nd on to 5th, where Ward made it clear there are three types of Marines: Ultramarines, We Wish We Were Ultramarines, and We'll Never Be Able To Be Ultramarines."
Seriously, that chapter can burn in Hell...
I used to get the same thing with my first space marine army. They were metallic green with flames on the shoulder pads, and people would invariably say 'Oh, are they Dark Angels?'
Just Tony wrote: I'm painting my Chaos force as Ultramarines 1st Company, that should tell you how I feel...
This doesn't tell me nearly enough. If you're painting heretic Ultramarines, it either means they're your favorite army in the game, or you hate them more than anything else
As a Crimson Fists player, NOTHING pissed me off more than people saying "Oh, you play Ultramarines!" I've suffered that gak from 2nd on to 5th, where Ward made it clear there are three types of Marines: Ultramarines, We Wish We Were Ultramarines, and We'll Never Be Able To Be Ultramarines."
Seriously, that chapter can burn in Hell...
Uh sorry that the Ultramarines are better and more popular than your Successor Chapter that can barely handle Orks and therefore you have the need to overreact?
Overall I'm neutral on Ultramarines. I do like RT Ultramarines and think the compendium cover art is the best Ultramarine art there has ever been, and modern Ultramarines can be interesting for their empire-building tensions with the rest of the Imperial institutions, but I'm not very into the grecoromanticism or bright blue and gold scheme.
So yeah. Neutral. If someone has models that are a neat interpretation then I'll possibly like that, though. I'm not biased.
Just Tony wrote: I'm painting my Chaos force as Ultramarines 1st Company, that should tell you how I feel...
This doesn't tell me nearly enough. If you're painting heretic Ultramarines, it either means they're your favorite army in the game, or you hate them more than anything else
As a Crimson Fists player, NOTHING pissed me off more than people saying "Oh, you play Ultramarines!" I've suffered that gak from 2nd on to 5th, where Ward made it clear there are three types of Marines: Ultramarines, We Wish We Were Ultramarines, and We'll Never Be Able To Be Ultramarines."
Seriously, that chapter can burn in Hell...
Uh sorry that the Ultramarines are better and more popular than your Successor Chapter that can barely handle Orks and therefore you have the need to overreact?
0/10
Been trolled harder by better, thoroughly disappointed.
NinthMusketeer wrote:Dam we got a second Heresy brewing over here with an attack like that.
Sometimes you look at the attacker and.realize a wat is neither necessary or worth it.
BaconCatBug wrote: I liked Ultramarines as a concept, but their Flanderisation makes me despise them.
Good One! Honestly, I don't care about them one way or another. I don't hate them, nor do I care enough to like them. Their background was rather boring to me. I picked the Crimson Fists as my "Book" chapter for that reason, I liked the background.
Just Tony wrote: I'm painting my Chaos force as Ultramarines 1st Company, that should tell you how I feel...
This doesn't tell me nearly enough. If you're painting heretic Ultramarines, it either means they're your favorite army in the game, or you hate them more than anything else
As a Crimson Fists player, NOTHING pissed me off more than people saying "Oh, you play Ultramarines!" I've suffered that gak from 2nd on to 5th, where Ward made it clear there are three types of Marines: Ultramarines, We Wish We Were Ultramarines, and We'll Never Be Able To Be Ultramarines."
Seriously, that chapter can burn in Hell...
Uh sorry that the Ultramarines are better and more popular than your Successor Chapter that can barely handle Orks and therefore you have the need to overreact?
Well it could be worse, a chapter could have all the resources in the galaxy at their fingertips and still have a hive fleet of 'Nids drop by and destroy their home planet and half of the chapter.
Never had a Ultramarine army in 40k. My first army was Space Wolves. When I played epic my whole force was Ultramarines. Since then they lightened up the blue for them a little.
They're the equivalent of the dog sitting in the burning room saying everything is fine. In the Grimdark of the 41st millenium, there is no option just to be brave, noble, and follow the rules. It's an interesting setting because you can't succeed. It's a world in which survival depends on your worst traits, not your best.
I play Death Guard because, when plagued by disease, they did not overcome it when Johnny Plague Marine drew his mighty chainsword and triumphedt, but at great cost. They didn't defeat disease, but merely survived it by becoming its slave. Despite the brochures, everything is not fine in the garden of Nurgle!
I don't like Ultramarines because they live in the grimdark, but they don't belong in it. It has no effect on them.
TonyH122 wrote: They're the equivalent of the dog sitting in the burning room saying everything is fine. In the Grimdark of the 41st millenium, there is no option just to be brave, noble, and follow the rules. It's an interesting setting because you can't succeed. It's a world in which survival depends on your worst traits, not your best.
I play Death Guard because, when plagued by disease, they did not overcome it when Johnny Plague Marine drew his mighty chainsword and triumphedt, but at great cost. They didn't defeat disease, but merely survived it by becoming its slave. Despite the brochures, everything is not fine in the garden of Nurgle!
I don't like Ultramarines because they live in the grimdark, but they don't belong in it. It has no effect on them.
You put into words a feeling I have been struggling to define for years, thank you.
2nd edition Codex Ultramarines was my first ever 40k 'dex. In fairness it was a great book for someone like me with only an inkling of how marines worked. Should have been called Space Marines though, agreed. From memory it did do a pretty good job at deliving into the other five chapters despite the name?
I really love Ultramarines in the 30k lore, Don't mind them in 40k either. If I were to make an Ultramarines army, it'd be with an Age of Darkness slant.
They're fine, I guess, I think I'd prefer it though if there was a bit more variation of what gets put out there in the official materials in terms of Codex-compliant Marines. Wouldn't ever paint/play them myself as I feel like there's too many out there already.
TonyH122 wrote:They're the equivalent of the dog sitting in the burning room saying everything is fine. In the Grimdark of the 41st millenium, there is no option just to be brave, noble, and follow the rules. It's an interesting setting because you can't succeed. It's a world in which survival depends on your worst traits, not your best.
Somewhat agree and disagree.
Do the Ultramarines have a Deep Dark Secret or Horrific Bloodline Curse that could tarnish their reputation? No, of course not.
But there are a few factors I can immediately think of that paint the Ultramarines in a much shadier light than just "sitting pretty in the grimdark".
1. Their flaw is their own history and clinging to the Codex. Sure, I subscribe to the idea that the Codex is fairly flexible and isn't just "if in case of X, do Y", but the Ultramarines are still guided and devoted to it. They struggled greatly against Behemoth because of this, and were even outmanoeuvred by the Farsight Enclaves who were able to create their Mirrorcodex. Sure, they follow the Codex to victory, but they're the perfect example of the Imperium's dogmatic and traditionalist outlook.
2. They follow the rules - the rules of a genuinely awful and horrific regime. Ultramar might be one of the best places to live in the Imperium, and the Ultramarines themselves might be one of the more humanitarian Chapters out there, but they're still Space Marines, and are nowhere near as resistant to other Imperial authority like the Space Wolves. They're the expression of the "following orders" idea - and as we know, the Imperium's orders are pretty horrific. I'd say that the fact that they are considered "ideal" Space Marines is arguably one of the most chilling things about them - because an ideal Space Marine is a Space Marine carrying out the acts of the bloodiest regime imaginable.
I wasn't really sure if I should do something special for my 40,000th post (that's this post, BTW). In the end I couldn't decide on what to do, but then I saw this thread, and figured this fits well. It's not something trivial about a new release or preview, or a question of rules or tactics, or a complaint, or taking someone to task for being a moron (it's been a hard 7 days without posting...). No. Instead, this is something to do with my first army:
The Ultramarines.
Now I say first army, but really I started two armies at the same time: Ultramarines and Tyranids. The fact that the two would become so intertwined in the fluff was't really a thing back then, but as you got Marines and Tyranids in the first GW product I ever bought (Tyranid Attack), it can technically count as my first army (and so can 'Nids! ).
So, why Ultramarines? Well, there's a quote in this thread that sums it up quite well:
I like blue. At the time the differences between Space Marine Chapters was really just their colour (and Chapter symbol, I suppose), so your choices were very light blue, red, blue or green (Salamanders were a big thing before Dark Angels were). Never liked red that much, green didn't interest me, the light blue didn't appeal, but the deeper rich blue of the Ultramarines was my thing.
So I went with them. It wasn't a question of fluff or miniatures back then. It was pretty much just down to the colour you like.
I have continued to like the Ultramarines since then, never wavering once. Hell, when my household got the Internet for the first time, way back in the days before 56k dial-up modems, "Marneus Calgar" was the first name I chose for myself on the first forum (READ: guestbook) that I came across. That name was taken (as much as one could "take" a name on a guestbook), and so I chose Half Brother of Marneus Calgar, later shortened to H.B.M.C.. It's been that way ever since, for literal decades. The original Marneus Calgar remains one of my fav minis GW has ever made. I've never bought a Chief Librarian Tiggy mini past the first one they made, as I see no reason to get another. It's perfect. Sicarius is a punk.
I hate the memeing about them, the whole "Spiritual Liege" nonsense that grew like a cancer on 4chan. I find calling them "Smurfs" irrational (there are tons of other blue chapters). I think that people complaining about them always being front and centre don't understand that from a branding perspective having all your Marine boxes have the same uniform scheme is something that makes the product line cohesive. I don't know if we really needed our Primarch to come back, but I'm glad that he was the first one to come back for the Imperium.
Overall, I love my Ultramarines, and I cannot see that ever going away.
Having said that, one person in this thread made a very interesting post that showed me a perspective that I had never considered:
TonyH122 wrote: I don't like Ultramarines because they live in the grimdark, but they don't belong in it. It has no effect on them.
This is a fantastic point, and one that I can't find fault in. However, with this thought it mind, it only makes me like them more. He's right, they don't belong in the grimdark, because they're the one's fighting against it. They can't be part of it, because they're forever striving (perhaps fruitlessly) to bring it to an end.
You don't need a 'flaw' to be interesting, you need a good theme. Ultramarines acting as paragons of humanity, forever fighting to bring them back to the light? Yeah. I like that.
Also: Yay. 40,000 posts.
BaconCatBug wrote: I liked Ultramarines as a concept, but their Flanderisation makes me despise them.
Sure you're not talking about the Space Wolves?
Blackie wrote: Last but not least I can't stand how primaris look...
you know what's funny? The reason people don't like them or find them bland or whatever is the reason they make for a great poster child. GW has sort of made it so that every new player literally starts off with a marine of some sort before branching off into other chapters or xenos races or what have you.
Like they make it a point to point out that ultramarines are just good overall. They aren't particularly skewed to one side. They aren't really super strong at any one thing. They aren't really standing out among the other chapters in terms of what they can do.
however, they are decent and stable. Because they aren't skewed to one side, it makes a good start to the 40k. From there, as players play and read, they can switch chapters to suite a playstyle or focus down on certain kinds of units.
Now, bland? sure. Not all too interesting? maybe. jack of all trades? i think that's a given. Do I like them? I love blue and gold! Do I care for their lore? sure, it's interesting. Do we need lore on other chapters? YES A LOT MORE!! Does it feel like the Ultramarines chapter is well over the 1000 marines that are supposed to consist of the chapter? based on the number of different units we can buy for SM, I feel like they are closer to 10k than 1k in size if we want to account for all the units and characters fitting in, but idk. 1k marines just doesn't quite feel like there are enough to house any decent amount of any kind of unit, but who am i to question the lore.
I think they are starting to focus a little more on other chapters, but I do think they could work more on fluffing them out or presenting stories. I think where the fluff places them and what they can do in game is pretty generic and good as a first foray into the game.
Dai wrote: 2nd edition Codex Ultramarines was my first ever 40k 'dex. In fairness it was a great book for someone like me with only an inkling of how marines worked. Should have been called Space Marines though, agreed. From memory it did do a pretty good job at deliving into the other five chapters despite the name?
Not at all... all fluff outside of a little ‘Eavy Metal was UM. I’m not sure the Scars, Fists etc even got a home world.
I also like the color blue, Ultramarines were my first army and are for sure my biggest. Originally that was my deciding factor but after reading lore, not having a theme like bikes baked into them or jetpack etc, rebuilding civilizations after destroying them. Stuff like that made me love them more.
Ultramarines are the poster child because the most popular color in the world is blue. I'm willing to bet that if it was red we'd see blood angels everywhere.
I am not partial to blue, and blue-white is my least favorite color combination, followed by blue-gold. I am not afraid to admit I would dislike Ultramarines less if they were not in those colors (or better balanced those colors rather than 90% blue). But I would still dislike them even if they were a different color. But...
NotSkilledHere wrote: you know what's funny? The reason people don't like them or find them bland or whatever is the reason they make for a great poster child. GW has sort of made it so that every new player literally starts off with a marine of some sort before branching off into other chapters or xenos races or what have you.
I wasn't really sure if I should do something special for my 40,000th post (that's this post, BTW). In the end I couldn't decide on what to do, but then I saw this thread, and figured this fits well. It's not something trivial about a new release or preview, or a question of rules or tactics, or a complaint, or taking someone to task for being a moron (it's been a hard 7 days without posting...). No. Instead, this is something to do with my first army:
The Ultramarines.
Now I say first army, but really I started two armies at the same time: Ultramarines and Tyranids. The fact that the two would become so intertwined in the fluff was't really a thing back then, but as you got Marines and Tyranids in the first GW product I ever bought (Tyranid Attack), it can technically count as my first army (and so can 'Nids! ).
So, why Ultramarines? Well, there's a quote in this thread that sums it up quite well:
I like blue. At the time the differences between Space Marine Chapters was really just their colour (and Chapter symbol, I suppose), so your choices were very light blue, red, blue or green (Salamanders were a big thing before Dark Angels were). Never liked red that much, green didn't interest me, the light blue didn't appeal, but the deeper rich blue of the Ultramarines was my thing.
So I went with them. It wasn't a question of fluff or miniatures back then. It was pretty much just down to the colour you like.
I have continued to like the Ultramarines since then, never wavering once. Hell, when my household got the Internet for the first time, way back in the days before 56k dial-up modems, "Marneus Calgar" was the first name I chose for myself on the first forum (READ: guestbook) that I came across. That name was taken (as much as one could "take" a name on a guestbook), and so I chose Half Brother of Marneus Calgar, later shortened to H.B.M.C.. It's been that way ever since, for literal decades. The original Marneus Calgar remains one of my fav minis GW has ever made. I've never bought a Chief Librarian Tiggy mini past the first one they made, as I see no reason to get another. It's perfect. Sicarius is a punk.
I hate the memeing about them, the whole "Spiritual Liege" nonsense that grew like a cancer on 4chan. I find calling them "Smurfs" irrational (there are tons of other blue chapters). I think that people complaining about them always being front and centre don't understand that from a branding perspective having all your Marine boxes have the same uniform scheme is something that makes the product line cohesive. I don't know if we really needed our Primarch to come back, but I'm glad that he was the first one to come back for the Imperium.
Overall, I love my Ultramarines, and I cannot see that ever going away.
Having said that, one person in this thread made a very interesting post that showed me a perspective that I had never considered:
TonyH122 wrote: I don't like Ultramarines because they live in the grimdark, but they don't belong in it. It has no effect on them.
This is a fantastic point, and one that I can't find fault in. However, with this thought it mind, it only makes me like them more. He's right, they don't belong in the grimdark, because they're the one's fighting against it. They can't be part of it, because they're forever striving (perhaps fruitlessly) to bring it to an end.
You don't need a 'flaw' to be interesting, you need a good theme. Ultramarines acting as paragons of humanity, forever fighting to bring them back to the light? Yeah. I like that.
Also: Yay. 40,000 posts.
Wow, congratulations on 40,000 posts! That is pretty epic sir. And a very insightful post to boot. I never knew the story behind HMBC!
I just wish they'd devote equal attention to all the other non-snowflake chapters for fluff/model support.
You’re preaching to the choir, I’ve been hoping and suggesting that since before COVID.
2E - Blood Angels
3E - probably Black Templars.
4E - Ultras
5E Ultras
6E DA 7E- DA again
8E UM
9e UM
In between there was a Wolf...Ork? Nid? Boxed set, and a UM/Eldar, and UM vs DG/Chaos alternate starter sets to roll out some Primaris.
We’re overdue for a BA set again, and there’s also the “summer campaigns” to provide some variety because they probably learned a lesson from the DA sets with proprietary bits bikers. They do seem to be dipping their toe back into those waters with the (really weird) list of multi-chapter forces sent in the Indimitus box. I forget which book, the 9E rule book? Some chapters sending one guy and half a roast beef sandwich kind of stuff. Hopefully they’ll recommit and we’ll start seeing more Vigilus roughly Demi-Company sized mutli chapter forces. Vigilus was much better than the Baal series in that regard (especially if you skip the DA tropes) but 2E was probably best with Dante, Calgar and Tu’shan all on planet.
Plus they’re still kicking the primarisization of chapter special units down the road. Hell, we still don’t have a jump-fight unit yet, though Outriders are close.
Faction Theme: Roman Legionaries - Favorite historical army.
Faction Strength: Adaptability/Tactics - I am kind of Jack of all trades myself.
There is nothing not to like about them for me. I also love their arrogance (I always imagine a marine with a chainsword and a bolt pistol looking on some foe twice their size and they charge in confident in their chances of victory) and adherence to doctrine like religion. They are the epitome of marineness. Far more than space Vikings or space Christians Crusaders or space dark lords of the sith. Space Romans are coolest.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
fraser1191 wrote: I also like the color blue, Ultramarines were my first army and are for sure my biggest. Originally that was my deciding factor but after reading lore, not having a theme like bikes baked into them or jetpack etc, rebuilding civilizations after destroying them. Stuff like that made me love them more.
Ultramarines are the poster child because the most popular color in the world is blue. I'm willing to bet that if it was red we'd see blood angels everywhere.
Out of all the factions of marines - they look the most pure and regal out of the founding chapters. I think that has the most to do with it. Siamhan are the chosen eldar faction and they are red...I think it just has to do with that colors look best on what models.
I wasn't really sure if I should do something special for my 40,000th post (that's this post, BTW). In the end I couldn't decide on what to do, but then I saw this thread, and figured this fits well. It's not something trivial about a new release or preview, or a question of rules or tactics, or a complaint, or taking someone to task for being a moron (it's been a hard 7 days without posting...). No. Instead, this is something to do with my first army:
The Ultramarines.
Now I say first army, but really I started two armies at the same time: Ultramarines and Tyranids. The fact that the two would become so intertwined in the fluff was't really a thing back then, but as you got Marines and Tyranids in the first GW product I ever bought (Tyranid Attack), it can technically count as my first army (and so can 'Nids! ).
So, why Ultramarines? Well, there's a quote in this thread that sums it up quite well:
I like blue. At the time the differences between Space Marine Chapters was really just their colour (and Chapter symbol, I suppose), so your choices were very light blue, red, blue or green (Salamanders were a big thing before Dark Angels were). Never liked red that much, green didn't interest me, the light blue didn't appeal, but the deeper rich blue of the Ultramarines was my thing.
So I went with them. It wasn't a question of fluff or miniatures back then. It was pretty much just down to the colour you like.
I have continued to like the Ultramarines since then, never wavering once. Hell, when my household got the Internet for the first time, way back in the days before 56k dial-up modems, "Marneus Calgar" was the first name I chose for myself on the first forum (READ: guestbook) that I came across. That name was taken (as much as one could "take" a name on a guestbook), and so I chose Half Brother of Marneus Calgar, later shortened to H.B.M.C.. It's been that way ever since, for literal decades. The original Marneus Calgar remains one of my fav minis GW has ever made. I've never bought a Chief Librarian Tiggy mini past the first one they made, as I see no reason to get another. It's perfect. Sicarius is a punk.
I hate the memeing about them, the whole "Spiritual Liege" nonsense that grew like a cancer on 4chan. I find calling them "Smurfs" irrational (there are tons of other blue chapters). I think that people complaining about them always being front and centre don't understand that from a branding perspective having all your Marine boxes have the same uniform scheme is something that makes the product line cohesive. I don't know if we really needed our Primarch to come back, but I'm glad that he was the first one to come back for the Imperium.
Overall, I love my Ultramarines, and I cannot see that ever going away.
Having said that, one person in this thread made a very interesting post that showed me a perspective that I had never considered:
TonyH122 wrote: I don't like Ultramarines because they live in the grimdark, but they don't belong in it. It has no effect on them.
This is a fantastic point, and one that I can't find fault in. However, with this thought it mind, it only makes me like them more. He's right, they don't belong in the grimdark, because they're the one's fighting against it. They can't be part of it, because they're forever striving (perhaps fruitlessly) to bring it to an end.
You don't need a 'flaw' to be interesting, you need a good theme. Ultramarines acting as paragons of humanity, forever fighting to bring them back to the light? Yeah. I like that.
Also: Yay. 40,000 posts.
BaconCatBug wrote: I liked Ultramarines as a concept, but their Flanderisation makes me despise them.
Sure you're not talking about the Space Wolves?
Blackie wrote: Last but not least I can't stand how primaris look...
And that's the fault of the Ultramarines?
Dude. Hi-five on the OG Calgar and Tigurius. I think I have three of those Calgars around, and the Tigurius is in my painting queue alongside the other seven Librarian models of that age. I'm still incredibly impressed at just how clean those sculpts for Calgar and Tigurius are, even from so long ago. I find it really interesting how the metal sculpt quality for many of the Space Marine models seemed to drop in quality around 4th and 5th ed.
I never liked the (new) Sicarius model either. I absolutely love the old model he's based on though. He was another reason I liked the UM, he looked like he was leading his army like a boss.
Also, H.B.M.C name. Huh. never would have guessed!
Although this doesn't even apply to my own UM army as it's built of exclusively 
My Ultra Ultra Marines are a gloss blue on the armor. This was a 
).
