Script was poor
The animation wasn’t very animated
The story was basically a bullet list of things that you might already know from the whole saga of Ghaz and yarrick
I think this would be very poorly received by someone who knew nothing about 40K and I don’t really see what it offers for 40K fans apart from some nice background drawings.
Sorry to be a downer, hopefully it was enjoyed by others
I enjoyed it, but yeah if this is the norm it's not gonna be worth buying a sub for. TBH, that animation woulda been great if they had chopped it up into smaller bits and used it as part of a "introduction to the heros of warhammer 40k" series on youtube. I think the video woulda been more exciting if they had teased an upcoming thing we didn't know like "But, Ghazakul's finally had eneugh of him following and is gonna have a big fight wif him in octarious"
Spoletta wrote: The animation surely isn't high quality, but the story telling was fine. Personally I didn't know all the story of Yarrick, so I found it interesting.
The biggest issue was that as a non native English speaker, understanding Orkish was quite difficult. I didn't find a way to activate subtitles.
That’s a good point but the Orks have always spoken broken English to make the sound like low IQ football hooligan.
I’m suprised they don’t have subtitles considering the global market GW has
Everything we've seen has been cool but wading into such a packed marketplace with comparatively little is risky. Wise to bundle the minis into an early commitment from the addicted.
I have my issues with Warhammer+ as a whole (to the point where I think a general boycott - something that's been suggested by a few - by as many of us as possible is probably a sensible move), but I thought 'Old Bale Eye' was quite enjoyable.
The animation was somewhat low effort, but I've seen as bad, or worse, in supposedly professionally produced anime. Storytelling was fine though I thought.
I'd guess much of the initial offerings will be of a similar standard. They'll presumably want some quantity of content for the service, so frame upon frame of painstakingly hand drawn and animated art ala say 'Akira', it won't be.
The fact that If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device got cancelled while something this cringy gets GW's official seal of approval ... well, I just have to shake my head is disapproval.
Spoletta wrote: The biggest issue was that as a non native English speaker, understanding Orkish was quite difficult. I didn't find a way to activate subtitles.
According to GW on Facebook, W+ will have the option for subtitles in various languages.
It was funny and I had a few laughs, I didn't know the story.
Hasn't changed my opinion on Warhammer+ one bit, I will wait for reactions on the other content. And the finished release of Angels of Blood in who knows how many months from now...
I thought the ltd models were a great value offer for a Warhammer + subscription but based on this i think they don’t have enough confidence in the product and the ltd models are their way of twisting some arms to get more subscribers
It was the nail in the coffin for me as regards Warhammer+. It felt like a long intro cut scene for a fairly mediocre game from 20 years ago. I don’t really like anime so that style just felt completely wrong for 40K. Was waiting for Yarrick to do a Dragon Punch or something as opposed to feeling like the universe we all know.
So if that’s the best they can offer to lure me in, I can only imagine what drivel they have in reserve.
Couldn't get the video to load on the website. Not sure what crappy site they hosted it from, but it does not bode well for their subscription service.
Kinda bad all around IMO. It felt like I was watching a low-fi VHS recording of an unfinished early production cut of a saturday morning cartoon from the 80s on a 1st generation color tv from the 60s.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't expecting this to be like a high budget blockbuster anime, Im just stunned that they thought it was a good idea to showcase their new streaming service with something that has a notably poorer animation quality than the first season of The Venture Bros.
The Newman wrote: The fact that If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device got cancelled while something this cringy gets GW's official seal of approval ... well, I just have to shake my head is disapproval.
It didn't get cancelled, Alfabusa decided to stop producing it.
I found it entertaining. It's not cutting edge animation, but it's not bottom barrel either. And we know that Hammer and Bolter will have a number of different animation styles between the various stories.
As for knowing the story, we know lots of stories we listen to. It's all in the delivery.
The Newman wrote: The fact that If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device got cancelled while something this cringy gets GW's official seal of approval ... well, I just have to shake my head is disapproval.
It didn't get cancelled, Alfabusa decided to stop producing it.
Was it just me or was the story a bit wrong anyway, Ghaz is portrayed as being in his big Mek armour, as per the new model, all through the history of his battles with yarrick, but I thought this only happened after the space wolf chopped his head off?
I really hated the portrayal of the Orks, the ones being told the story. They seemed to act more like children than any other Ork portrayals I've seen.
The scene where Yarrick defeats the warboss and makes the Orks flee felt like a GI Joe cartoon, not a proper rout of an enemy.
Meh, I enjoyed it. Animation style was more 'moving comic' than 'animated cartoon' and im actuuslly quite OK with that - stylistically it worked for me.
Story wise nothing new - its yarrick. And there's nothing wrong with that in the slightest.
Only thing that surprised me is Yarrick has a Russian accent. I always picture the more belligerent characters, (especially space wolves) as having Scottish accent.
The Newman wrote: The fact that If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device got cancelled while something this cringy gets GW's official seal of approval ... well, I just have to shake my head is disapproval.
It didn't get cancelled, Alfabusa decided to stop producing it.
So yes, it got cancelled.
I think he's trying to say GW didn't go out and shut him down, Alfabusa canceled it himself
Didn't look much worse or a lot better, then the short movies you can watch on YT. Assuming GW is doing this as cheap as possible, it isn't that bad. It sure could be a lot worse.
Plus I got to know that young orks are not very big.
It was ok, I felt it was a little long for what it was.
If invested in the hobby it may be a fun watch, but I know most of the story and didn’t really care for more.
Dunno otherwise, animation was ok.
You can get better, and much worse, but the writing didn’t make up for the animation itself I think.
They may be better showing off high quality lore videos, and batreps that have some good production value with this more as a side.
The Newman wrote: The fact that If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device got cancelled while something this cringy gets GW's official seal of approval ... well, I just have to shake my head is disapproval.
It didn't get cancelled, Alfabusa decided to stop producing it.
So yes, it got cancelled.
I think he's trying to say GW didn't go out and shut him down, Alfabusa canceled it himself
Because GW started threatening legal action, don't fool yourself into thinking their intimidating fan projects played no part.
Jarms48 wrote: I really hated the portrayal of the Orks, the ones being told the story. They seemed to act more like children than any other Ork portrayals I've seen.
That was part of the conceit. They were yoofs or wildboys being taught about orky kultur, caught skeeving off trying to catch what they thought was an easy dinner.
They needed inspiration from the old runtherd, because they made such a poor show of their misadventure.
PenitentJake wrote: This reminded me of the old Heavy Metal movie in terms of style.
Not bad- didn't feel like I wasted my time watching it.
I think Angels of Death will be more my style as an ongoing story.
If angels of death is animated in the same way could you stand watching 10 20 min episodes? The style doesn’t really lend its self for action.
I was expecting some more along the lines of the trailer they released for indomitus, I think, that had SOB, SM and Necrons fighting. That was really good animation
GW went after every content creator on Youtube who was using their IP. Yep got it, its their Ip they can do what they want. But they then put all of it behind a paywall forgetting that the internet is the internet which means I can still watch "Astartes" without their subscription.
But then GW did the most GW thing ever, they released a Sneak preview "LOOK HOW COOL THIS WARHAMMER+ IS GOING TO BE!" only to let loose a sub par animation that some of the content creators they hit with Cease and desists would have been embarrassed to put out.
When your Million dollar company can't even match some guy in his basement's level of content...you failed.
SemperMortis wrote: GW went after every content creator on Youtube who was using their IP. Yep got it, its their Ip they can do what they want. But they then put all of it behind a paywall forgetting that the internet is the internet which means I can still watch "Astartes" without their subscription.
But then GW did the most GW thing ever, they released a Sneak preview "LOOK HOW COOL THIS WARHAMMER+ IS GOING TO BE!" only to let loose a sub par animation that some of the content creators they hit with Cease and desists would have been embarrassed to put out.
When your Million dollar company can't even match some guy in his basement's level of content...you failed.
And if their content was superior they wouldn’t need to stop the fan content
Deadnight wrote:Only thing that surprised me is Yarrick has a Russian accent. I always picture the more belligerent characters, (especially space wolves) as having Scottish accent.
He sounded Scottish to me, which I thought sounded out of place as I’m so used to those generic British-ish sci-fi accents imperial types have in various GW animations.
Lord Blackscale wrote:Couldn't get the video to load on the website. Not sure what crappy site they hosted it from, but it does not bode well for their subscription service.
Same here. I ended up watching a naughty re-upload on YouTube.
SemperMortis wrote: GW went after every content creator on Youtube who was using their IP. Yep got it, its their Ip they can do what they want. But they then put all of it behind a paywall forgetting that the internet is the internet which means I can still watch "Astartes" without their subscription.
But then GW did the most GW thing ever, they released a Sneak preview "LOOK HOW COOL THIS WARHAMMER+ IS GOING TO BE!" only to let loose a sub par animation that some of the content creators they hit with Cease and desists would have been embarrassed to put out.
When your Million dollar company can't even match some guy in his basement's level of content...you failed.
And if their content was superior they wouldn’t need to stop the fan content
Its really embarrasing how GW is completelly unable to do a decent animation of their IP after so many years.
Its really embarrasing how GW is completelly unable to do a decent animation of their IP after so many years.
I mean, they're not an animation studio. I'm not sure what we should have expected really.
Producing animation that's very high quality isn't trivial - much of what's out there in terms of serious commercial examples is in reality quite low effort.
That said, I'm not excusing them. They have money to hire serious talent, are expecting us to pay - regularly - for what looks to be pretty limited content, and have hurt a number of talented community members in setting all this up.
I'm honestly not sure what the thought process is behind WH+ at this point. Maybe I'm missing something? I can't help currently but hope it either fails - spectacularly and swiftly - so they, and we, can move on from it, or becomes something that grows and encourages the community, rather than leaving an unpleasant taste in the mouths of its members.
I don't think anyone is claiming GW is an animation studio, but they are multi-billion pound company with the capability to sub-contract to one.
I personally like the idea of embracing the fan community and hiring them making their passion projects official, but I think the execution (and GW's history with legal battles) leaves myself and others very wary of what the future will bring.
The Red Hobbit wrote: I don't think anyone is claiming GW is an animation studio, but they are multi-billion pound company with the capability to sub-contract to one.
I personally like the idea of embracing the fan community and hiring them making their passion projects official, but I think the execution (and GW's history with legal battles) leaves myself and others very wary of what the future will bring.
Exactly GW should be hiring a production company to make these in the same way the model makers didn’t have a crack at authoring books, they pay authors to write the BL books.
I don’t think fans should be doing it though, it needs to be a corporate endeavour to keep the setting accurate (as much as GW can).
Dont get mew wrong; it was enjoyable to watch and I had no idea about this particular bit of the lore. Like the voice acting and the art style wasnt too bad. It was amazing either.. Just middle of the road.
But I ain't going to pay for essentially flash animation..
First couple of minutes had me worried, but the rest was fun. I enjoyed a return to the comical nature of Orks, while still having moments of brutality.
The animation style doesn't bother me too much, it reminds me of the Saturday morning cartoons of my own yoof. Just with more blood.
Between the exclusive mini, app access, WD library, and Loremaster shows, I've already decided that W+ provides plenty of good value for me. Having fun, 20min shows like this is just icing.
Its really embarrasing how GW is completelly unable to do a decent animation of their IP after so many years.
I mean, they're not an animation studio. I'm not sure what we should have expected really.
Producing animation that's very high quality isn't trivial - much of what's out there in terms of serious commercial examples is in reality quite low effort.
That said, I'm not excusing them. They have money to hire serious talent, are expecting us to pay - regularly - for what looks to be pretty limited content, and have hurt a number of talented community members in setting all this up.
I'm honestly not sure what the thought process is behind WH+ at this point. Maybe I'm missing something? I can't help currently but hope it either fails - spectacularly and swiftly - so they, and we, can move on from it, or becomes something that grows and encourages the community, rather than leaving an unpleasant taste in the mouths of its members.
Apparently, they hired a professional UK animation studio. I don't know what went wrong, was it the budget or what, but yea...
I just went to watch it but saw a message saying that it was only available for 24hrs and had already been taken down.
What.
This is effectively a teaser, right? Something that's supposed to entice me to pay for the full thing? Unless Warhammer+ has itself just been cancelled (fingers crossed), it baffles me as to why GW would effectively remove an advertisement for it from their website.
(And, shockingly enough, I don't intend to subscribe to Warhammer+ for the privilege of watching a trailer for Warhammer+. )
It was decent enough I like everything surrounding Armageddon. That and Ghazkull did a real number on one of my Dark Angels recruiting worlds Pescina so I like following his lore also. But the animation was nothing to be amazed at compared to some other things I’ve seen but it wasn’t the worst way to kill 20min
Unless Warhammer+ has itself just been cancelled (fingers crossed)
This is the thing right here though; why hope for its demise and failure rather than simply choose not to buy it, or subscribe to it?
This attitude of "I don't like it, therefore it should not exist" is just so common on Dakka.
I'll just never understand it.
It's not that, at least not for me. I don't want to 'watch the world burn'. Nor do I wish any harm to GW - I genuinely love this hobby and appreciate much of what they do.
GW are not Netflix. Nor are they going to be. I hope that in WH+ failing, we might see more focus on what GWdo excel at, and further, a rethink of attitudes on their part toward the incredibly talented members of their community, who could be a real asset to them.
A half-hearted attempt at a subscription streaming service, doesn't seem to help them, or us. It certainly (insofar as I can see) doesn't grow the hobby in the way that great, freely available content from community creators that have been encouraged, and nurtured, could (and probably have).
As someone who watched Astartes… I’m not really impressed with it. That’s just me. The story itself was okay I suppose. But the animation in Astartes done by one dude vs a conglomerate like GW…. Watch it for yourself and make your own conclusions on the animations.
The Newman wrote: The fact that If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device got cancelled while something this cringy gets GW's official seal of approval ... well, I just have to shake my head is disapproval.
It didn't get cancelled, Alfabusa decided to stop producing it.
So yes, it got cancelled.
I think he's trying to say GW didn't go out and shut him down, Alfabusa canceled it himself
Because GW started threatening legal action, don't fool yourself into thinking their intimidating fan projects played no part.
Alfabusa was very explicit about not having had any contact with GW because he doesn't want people drawing GW's attention and he doesn't have the resources or inclination to take the fair-use case to court even if he is in the right.
For all my complaints I will still give Warhammer + a go in the hope that there is much better content on the way and that as usual what we have seen is a bit of a rush to release
It’s only 5.99 to try it. Someone mentioned the WD backlog. That not for the current 12 months though, is that correct? So we won’t get 2021 until 2022?
A half-hearted attempt at a subscription streaming service, doesn't seem to help them, or us. It certainly (insofar as I can see) doesn't grow the hobby in the way that great, freely available content from community creators that have been encouraged, and nurtured, could (and probably have).
Yes I am reminded of the honest trailer for 'every streaming service'. I think at this stage of their readiness they would be better off with that free content promoting them. Currently HMS Queen Elizabeth has a better media channel (onboard at least).
The Newman wrote: The fact that If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device got cancelled while something this cringy gets GW's official seal of approval ... well, I just have to shake my head is disapproval.
It didn't get cancelled, Alfabusa decided to stop producing it.
So yes, it got cancelled.
I think he's trying to say GW didn't go out and shut him down, Alfabusa canceled it himself
Because GW started threatening legal action, don't fool yourself into thinking their intimidating fan projects played no part.
Alfabusa was very explicit about not having had any contact with GW because he doesn't want people drawing GW's attention and he doesn't have the resources or inclination to take the fair-use case to court even if he is in the right.
sure but the point is GW themselves didn't go out and shut down TTS. so far, as best I can tell all the animations they actually went after where ones they wanted to bring under their umbrella. the TTS animation style isn't that great and the type of parody it induldges in I doubt GW would ever wanna indulge it. it may have been safe.
Anyway I hear rumor that Alfabusa is going to do some battletech stuff, hopefully he doesn't accidently use an unseen mech and have Harmony gold try to sue him.
See, what I've read is that they hired them, not threatened or abused them.
Most of the people took the job too, so either:
a) the pay was good enough
b) the job security was good enough
c) the benefits were good enough
d) the intrinsic rewards of doing what you love for a living was enough
e) the degree of control retained by the creator was sufficient
f) the animators are looking to build a career and thought that the job might increase their contacts and reputation within the industry more than fan art youtube videos
Or some combination of those six elements.
Now I'm not saying GW is perfect, no corporation is. I wish the content creators were able to talk about their arrangements so we knew whether they had it good or not. But not being able to disclose salary and the inner workings of a contract are very common business practices.
If the animators were having a bad experience, I'm guessing they'd leave; we know that one has, but interestingly enough, if I recall correctly, this creator wasn't getting communication from GW, which is bad, but in terms of actual abuse, the creator was getting far more of that from @$$ho3$ who call themselves "fans" because THEY were P!$$3D because the creator getting his dream job meant that they couldn't continue to get the work for free.
And yes, I know, many of these creators do have fans who financially support their work via patreon, but funny thing: since those guys were already paying, they're probably far less upset about a $70/ year subscription since they now get not only the creator of their choice for their money, but other creators as well.
Talk to people in the Gig economy. It is true there are a handful who love it. In my experience, they are the minority- almost every gig worker I've ever spoken to would much prefer a real job.
Unless Warhammer+ has itself just been cancelled (fingers crossed)
This is the thing right here though; why hope for its demise and failure rather than simply choose not to buy it, or subscribe to it?
Because GW is already overcharging for models and vastly overcharging for rulebooks. Indeed, in addition to being stupidly expensive to begin with, the rulebooks are quickly outdated because of FAQs, new rules etc. or just whole new editions (this, I remind you, is something that other wargames give away for free as standard). Under the circumstances, then, it seems rather insulting to lock basic features (including animation that amounts to hype-trailers for their own game) behind a subscription service.
If you want to support it and lavish praise on GW for treating you like a wallet with eyes, go nuts.
For me, it represents yet another anti-consumer move by the company so I reserve my right to hope that it ends up biting them in the arse.
You're not wrong Jake. The creators they hired will no doubt be presented with a number of professional opportunities from this - and good for them!
I think the aspect of this that your comment doesn't address (and that I suspect is the source of many peoples frustration - certainly mine), is those creators that weren't hired.
Their content was still enjoyed by many. But as they created this new platform, GW also made it very clear (updating in black and white their existing policies) that they see other, current and future, fan-created content as a threat and unacceptable. Now obviously they are fully within their rights to do this, but when GW are poised to directly benefit financially by charging fans for this same (previously freely available) fan created content via WH+...
Well, you can see how it feels a bit cheeky.
It's absolutely how GW have affected the rest of the community creators that many people are sore about. Handled properly and encouraged, there is no reason why these creators couldn't be a net asset.
We don't really know where lines will be drawn either. WH+ is set to feature lore videos and content on painting too - so will anyone providing this type of content on YouTube be facing legal sanctions in future?
See, what I've read is that they hired them, not threatened or abused them.
Most of the people took the job too, so either:
a) the pay was good enough
b) the job security was good enough
c) the benefits were good enough
d) the intrinsic rewards of doing what you love for a living was enough
e) the degree of control retained by the creator was sufficient
f) the animators are looking to build a career and thought that the job might increase their contacts and reputation within the industry more than fan art youtube videos
Or some combination of those six elements.
Now I'm not saying GW is perfect, no corporation is. I wish the content creators were able to talk about their arrangements so we knew whether they had it good or not. But not being able to disclose salary and the inner workings of a contract are very common business practices.
If the animators were having a bad experience, I'm guessing they'd leave; we know that one has, but interestingly enough, if I recall correctly, this creator wasn't getting communication from GW, which is bad, but in terms of actual abuse, the creator was getting far more of that from @$$ho3$ who call themselves "fans" because THEY were P!$$3D because the creator getting his dream job meant that they couldn't continue to get the work for free.
And yes, I know, many of these creators do have fans who financially support their work via patreon, but funny thing: since those guys were already paying, they're probably far less upset about a $70/ year subscription since they now get not only the creator of their choice for their money, but other creators as well.
Talk to people in the Gig economy. It is true there are a handful who love it. In my experience, they are the minority- almost every gig worker I've ever spoken to would much prefer a real job.
We know GW doesn't pay well to creatives, that's an established fact. I really doubt most of the content creators big enough to get "approached" (call it an offer, a threat, whatever) will make anywhere near as much money working for GW as they did via freelance. And just to make sure the door is not opened, I say all of this as a statement irrespective of the legality of the freelance operations. That's not the point here (not preemptively accusing you of bringing up something irrelevant, Jake, just trying to get that out of the way.)
Thanks Straylight and Gene for the responses- good stuff in both of those posts that clarifies the argument a bit.
Hopefully if W+ gets enough traction, they'll be able to hire more folks, or establish forums where creators can pitch ideas and share samples, or enter contests.
Granted, that requires a lighter hand than GW seems to use sometimes; people aren't going to want to pitch ideas if they think those ideas may be taken and used without adequate compensation. But it is one potential avenue to adress some of these issues.
A job offer offered at the point of a gun - "take this or be shut down" - is not really a real, freely negotiated, arms-length job offer, whether somebody accepts or not. Especially when a condition of acceptance is not telling anyone the terms. And that's true no matter what you think about the underlying IP issues. Even if you think it's fine to make that sort of offer because of the laws involved, it doesn't mean we should assume that because people accepted, the deal must be good. GW had all these animators over a barrel.
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Racerguy180 wrote: 10 quid voucher if you sign up....getting worried GW?????
There is literally no content, I'm honestly floored they're launching with this. It's almost a joke. Aside from old back issues of WD, there is like a few hours' worth of content here. It'd be like if Disney had launched its streaming service with a single show.
PenitentJake wrote: Thanks Straylight and Gene for the responses- good stuff in both of those posts that clarifies the argument a bit.
Hopefully if W+ gets enough traction, they'll be able to hire more folks, or establish forums where creators can pitch ideas and share samples, or enter contests.
Granted, that requires a lighter hand than GW seems to use sometimes; people aren't going to want to pitch ideas if they think those ideas may be taken and used without adequate compensation. But it is one potential avenue to adress some of these issues.
GW will never again have forums, they don't want to see negative feed back.
Yeah, sorry- forum was a poor choice of words- I meant it in a general sense.
Like maybe they establish a formal process process for accepting submissions with guidelines and reviewers who provide feedback to the candidates that show potential, or they host these submissions and allow fans to vote for which projects get development and job offers.
@yuki
You are correct, it is a shotgun job offer- it isn't entirely benevolent, and I'm not claiming otherwise- on this point we are agreed.
What I meant though is that the creators who did take the jobs must have considered them worth taking. If they hadn't, they would have taken their projects down and went out to get other, better jobs- or in some cases, keep the better jobs they already had.
It sucks to abandon a passion project, but not so much that folks will endure huge financial hardships and a substandard working environment. I suppose it is possible someone has put so much time and effort into something that they truly love that they might endure it for long enough to complete the project and THEN move on to greener pastures. But I think even those folks might be rare.
It will be interesting to see if these folks decide to stick with GW for the long haul.
GW will never again have forums, they don't want to see negative feed back.
They could have them, but in order to do so they would have to hire a lot of moderators. And I mean a lot, considering how popular w40k and how many, potentially, people could want to post there. And those couldn't be some randoms from the street either, so no students working for the proverbial carrot , doing the moderation.
If the animators were having a bad experience, I'm guessing they'd leave; we know that one has, but interestingly enough, if I recall correctly, this creator wasn't getting communication from GW, which is bad, but in terms of actual abuse, the creator was getting far more of that from @$$ho3$ who call themselves "fans" because THEY were P!$$3D because the creator getting his dream job meant that they couldn't continue to get the work for free.
I think we should wait with the "dream job" description till they actually make something for warhammer+. And it doesn't turn in to we take your project in, hire you for 3-6 months. Implement what ever changes we wanted from you in to our production. And then if you don't like it you can take us to the local courts and then lets see who has more money, random app creator from eastern europe interested in carrot production or Bonduelle.
One of the main problems that WH+ has for me, besides the shotgun approach to content creators, the shutting down of things they cannot profit directly off and their general aggressive protective approach to their IP (they may be right in the words of the law, does not mean it is the right thing to do) is - they're selling us recycled content that we already paid for and/or did/can get for free.
They don't offer anything of value (to me).
White Dwarf backlog? Yeah, they're just squeezing an additional penny out of what they already sold us.
BatReps? Free. Everywhere on the net.
Lore vids? Same.
A "limited miniature" for 72$ that I have to wait for and pay up front? That's not a good offer, not in modern times. Earlier you could've just walked into a GW store and bought that limited thing. Now its locked behind a pay wall for triple the price.
The only thing that was of slight interest was the animations - and with the shotgun approach they lost all good will regarding that as well. Hammer and Bolter was mediocre as best - I mean just compare it to things like Hazbin Hotel/Helliuva Boss. Those things are free and while totally a different genre, they're leagues ahead.
The entire WH+ thing is useless and, while I admit the spite demon cackles madly in the back of my mind, I hope it fails and GW gets the slap they deserve for going to war on their own fans.
I don't think Astartes was offered a job at gunpoint.
Rather they shot them, then offered a job with an open hand.
Or to speak plainly, the content was getting removed regardless of whether they accepted the job offer or not.
The launch content for WH+ is even thinner than I thought it would be. I honestly expected to have at least one of every show.
Thairne wrote: White Dwarf backlog? Yeah, they're just squeezing an additional penny out of what they already sold us.
This is actually something I'm very interested in. Sure, I bought the WD that showed off Nagash when the model was released during the End Times but I don't have that WD anymore, nor have I read a WD pre-2010.
BatReps? Free. Everywhere on the net.
Agreed.
Lore vids? Same.
Lore videos on YT might be free but vary hugely in quality to the point where I generally just stay away from them. Not including certain channels that will remain unnamed, the content varies from excellent and accurate to "I read the 4chan page and made a video =)". Lore videos straight from the source with no unconscious bias or muddled publications? I'm down for that.
A "limited miniature" for 72$ that I have to wait for and pay up front? That's not a good offer, not in modern times. Earlier you could've just walked into a GW store and bought that limited thing. Now its locked behind a pay wall for triple the price.
You mean the miniature that's included as part of the subscription cost or the optional miniature you are under no obligation to buy?
The Painting Masterclass stuff I'm interested in because too many YT tutorials either use non-GW paints (which doesn't help me personally) or do things like "now simply pick up your airbrush", at which point I find a new video to watch.
Overall, I'm going to wait and see with this.
The best "lore" videos I have found are from Arbitor Ian, who I believe is also a Dakka poster. Gives the context to the changes in the setting over time with different publications. I find that much more interesting than someone just doing a summary.
As to WH+, I didn't expect it to do very well because it seems half assed. Too many subscription services anyway. Seems like some high up with a bright idea to me.
True. Specially if you want to find employment in the same line of work in the future. If you say bad stuff about your prior company, the next one is not going to care, if you were right or wrong. They will care about the fact, that you seem to be a person who thinks that badmouthing their employer in public, is an okey thing to do.
Can end up blacklisting yourself doing stuff like that.
Dai wrote: Lot of folk being offended on behalf of people who've shown no indication of being badly treated themselves.
I mean, there's a great deal of evidence regarding mistreatment of community creators outside the 'hired' group. We know little about the hired group, but we can have sensible concerns based on what we do know - a) Pay and conditions for creatives within GW (talked about at length recently by whistle-blowers whom we have no reason to doubt), b) the vigorous and forceful manner in which GW has always defended its IP.
I think it's ok to have concern for others in this situation, and to advocate for them where they may not be able to. These same creators have given freely to us in the hobby community, have they not?
Thairne wrote: White Dwarf backlog? Yeah, they're just squeezing an additional penny out of what they already sold us.
This is actually something I'm very interested in. Sure, I bought the WD that showed off Nagash when the model was released during the End Times but I don't have that WD anymore, nor have I read a WD pre-2010.
What I was stoked about is it looks like these will be PDFs instead of E-pubs, meaning I'll actually be able to read them on a computer. I hope everything they add continues to be PDF- I hate E-Pubs more than my Sisters hate heretics.
While true, there are a few things here that could salvage this for me. First, I've been looking for a series of Batreps that follows a Crusade from 25 PL all the way to 150 PL, emphasizing the story rather than the game play through the narration. The closest I've come is Scared Cast- he does have a handful of Crusade games up featuring his DE, but he did number them or organize them into a coherent playlist, so it's really hard to follow the narrative.
Second, they mentioned that SOME of their Batreps will be historical battles; I would love to see the Slaughter at Sanctuary 101, the Order of Our Martyred Lady's last stand at Armageddon, and I would give my left pinky finger for a huge Age of Apostasy battle with all six matrons of the SoB represented on the table. While the first two are true possibilities which could be represented with current models, the Age of Apostasy is a real long shot because it would require some extensive conversion work.
Essentially, I'm banking on GW's official WH+ batreps being higher quality than what's available on the net for free. I want to see them use the legendary tables that are kept as display pieces at Warhammer World. GW can do that; generally, youtubers can't.
Lore videos on YT might be free but vary hugely in quality to the point where I generally just stay away from them. Not including certain channels that will remain unnamed, the content varies from excellent and accurate to "I read the 4chan page and made a video =)". Lore videos straight from the source with no unconscious bias or muddled publications? I'm down for that.
Agreed. WH+ has the capacity to provide more detail since they have access to the designers, fluff writers and BL Authors.
A "limited miniature" for 72$ that I have to wait for and pay up front? That's not a good offer, not in modern times. Earlier you could've just walked into a GW store and bought that limited thing. Now its locked behind a pay wall for triple the price.
The way I look at this is to deduct the estimated cost of the model from the cost of the sub. In CAD, I'm likely looking at $100 for the sub for a year. Most Assassins run $43 CAD, but the WH+ Vindicare is such a diorama show stopper that I'd put it on par with a more expensive character- somewhere around $60CAD. That takes my 1 year sub down to $40 CAD. My monthly cost is now less than two extra large coffees at Tim Hortons, and less than a single Starbucks equivalent.
And MANNN do I have plans for that Vindicare: I'm hoping I can separate the Assassin from the statue; I think that will be pretty easy, and it will allow me to use the piece as a whole to represent the Assassin, or use just the Assassin (because moving scenery on the table feels weird) and keep the statue for terrain. It makes an excellent alternative statue for a Battle Sanctum.
The harder conversion work involves incorporating the statue into a building in such a way that the building can be used with or without the statue present, essentially giving me two possible buildings to use on a battlefield. This will be harder than separating the assissin from the statue, I think... But I might have the skill to pull it off.
The final, hardest conversion involves scratch building pieces that can be added to the statue, so that I can field it with or without battle damage. Not sure I can meet the required skill threshold for this, but I am hopeful.
If I manage to get as much versatility from this piece as I plan, honestly, the model would be worth the full $100 cost of the sub on its own. If not, it still reduces the expense of the sub enough that this is a no-brainer for me.
The Painting Masterclass stuff I'm interested in because too many YT tutorials either use non-GW paints (which doesn't help me personally) or do things like "now simply pick up your airbrush", at which point I find a new video to watch.
Overall, I'm going to wait and see with this.
I'm in the same boat. From their previous press, it sounds like they are going to have some vids that are for beginners and some that are for experts, so we'll see how it turns out.
Something that occured to me about the lore videos...even if they add something new, 30min after it airs you will have LoreWarhammerChannels on YT doing videos on that.
While true, there are a few things here that could salvage this for me. First, I've been looking for a series of Batreps that follows a Crusade from 25 PL all the way to 150 PL, emphasizing the story rather than the game play through the narration. The closest I've come is Scared Cast- he does have a handful of Crusade games up featuring his DE, but he did number them or organize them into a coherent playlist, so it's really hard to follow the narrative.
Second, they mentioned that SOME of their Batreps will be historical battles; I would love to see the Slaughter at Sanctuary 101, the Order of Our Martyred Lady's last stand at Armageddon, and I would give my left pinky finger for a huge Age of Apostasy battle with all six matrons of the SoB represented on the table. While the first two are true possibilities which could be represented with current models, the Age of Apostasy is a real long shot because it would require some extensive conversion work.
Essentially, I'm banking on GW's official WH+ batreps being higher quality than what's available on the net for free. I want to see them use the legendary tables that are kept as display pieces at Warhammer World. GW can do that; generally, youtubers can't.
That is true and something I didn't think about at the time but did in another thread Having used some of the fancy tables at WHW, seeing them used in a BatRep would be pretty neet.
Will WH+ be essential in order to get stuff for your dudes.
They sort of mentioned you will get priority for events (most people dont care) and exclusive minis.
How long until you will hjave to be the "chosen ones" in order to buy the overpriced rule book/codex for your dudes that becomes invalid within a week, 1 month before everyone else?
Like I dont really care if people want to pay for the app, animations or wot not. Your money do what you want.
But does this not seem like the next "gAme AS sErVicE" business model approach.
The executives of big corporations cant stop themselves from pursuing this concept. Short-term profit boost to detriment of the industry, their fanbase and long term sustainability of the actual business.
We all know how the WH fanbase is. They will buy it if GW decides its "requirered"
Argive wrote: Here is the main thing that bothers me:
Will WH+ be essential in order to get stuff for your dudes.
They sort of mentioned you will get priority for events (most people dont care) and exclusive minis.
How long until you will hjave to be the "chosen ones" in order to buy the overpriced rule book/codex for your dudes that becomes invalid within a week, 1 month before everyone else?
Like I dont really care if people want to pay for the app, animations or wot not. Your money do what you want.
But does this not seem like the next "gAme AS sErVicE" business model approach.
The executives of big corporations cant stop themselves from pursuing this concept. Short-term profit boost to detriment of the industry, their fanbase and long term sustainability of the actual business.
We all know how the WH fanbase is. They will buy it if GW decides its "requirered"
Yeah, if it ever got to that level, I think it would be a bad thing for sure. A limited edition model per year? I think that's okay, probably- especially if a non-limited version of the same model is available- like we're seeing with the Vindicare; yes, a sexy new model does exist and you do have to subscribe to get it, and for a lot of folks, that's gonna suck. But if they want to play a Vindicare, the fact that the limited sculpt is locked behind the subscription, they aren't actually prevented from playing the model because they can always just grab the standard Vindicare.
It always used to bother me that some models were only available at events, for example. Personally, I would rather see a model locked behind a WH+ subscription than locked behind event attendance. It least the WH+ sub is accessible from everywhere in the world. But even those event only models tend to have generic versions readily available so that you aren't prevented from playing the unit if you don't go to the event- you're just prevented from using the exclusive model to represent that unit when you play.
As for your last point, I don't see WH+ as a short term profit boost. I think it's actually a very long-term effort to significantly grow the player base. It allows them to explore the tastes of the player base far more easily than trying to collate sales data from thousands of GW stores, local retailers + online sales. It's a single point of data collection. If 5x as many people watch the Kroot cartoon than the Blood Angels movie, expect your Kroot dex for tenth edition.
What would be worse is if being a subscriber gives you 24 hour access to pre order ltd edition products before everyone else. Imagine how many people wouldn’t have got a copy of indomitus if that was the case
Im surprised you don't think It totally stinks of a "paywall premium sub" style of thing but for minatures... hobby is expensive enough as it is. I mean is it really that much of a stretch to think GW would not make this basicaly a mandatory subscription if you want o play their games? Lock enough rules, book behind a paywall and its no longer optional if you want to be part of the community.
Some people don't spend any money with GW for a couple months because their armies are not getting releases/rules. They could ensure everybody is giving them at least £6 a month... The cynic in me says this is exactly what they are going for.
"Have you got your Warhammer loicense mate?"
If they can charge people for simply wanting to participate in the community what makes you think they wouldn't monetise it ? Plenty of people would lap it up without a second though.
I don't care about what it is now. I care about the direction this is likely to go..
There is a difference between speculation and nonsense. You're talking nonsense.
Im surprised you don't think It totally stinks of a "paywall premium sub" style of thing but for minatures... hobby is expensive enough as it is.
And yet things like the Hatchett Partworks series exist. A subscription service that gets you Warhammer at drastically cheaper prices. Weird.
I mean is it really that much of a stretch to think GW would not make this basicaly a mandatory subscription if you want o play their games?
Yes because there isn't a shred of evidence to support this line of thinking.
Lock enough rules, book behind a paywall and its no longer optional if you want to be part of the community.
Nope. There would be loads of legal and other ways to obtain said rules. And if every single rulebook was locked behind an app subscription, Warhammer would die overnight.
Some people don't spend any money with GW for a couple months because their armies are not getting releases/rules. They could ensure everybody is giving them at least £6 a month...
Nope.
The cynic in me says this is exactly what they are going for.
The fearmongering GW-hater you mean?
If they can charge people for simply wanting to participate in the community what makes you think they wouldn't monetise it ?
Plenty of people would lap it up without a second though.
Except this is utter tosh and has no basis in reality.
I don't care about what it is now. I care about the direction this is likely to go..
You don't know what direction it's going to go so you're making up scary nonsense to further fan the flames of anti-GW sentiment.
Like I said earlier, be mad at actual problems and don't make up nonsense to justify your beliefs.
Argive wrote: How's it nonsense to think GW may put more and more stuff behind the WH+ umbrella paywall if its going to be making them lots of money?
Because there is no indication that Warhammer + is going to make the company boatloads of cash. It's £60 a year, not £60 a month. Compare that to the sales from physical books and it'll be far less, I guarantee it.
You are entitled to your opinion.
Just because you don't like the possible trend I'm pointing out don't make it nonsense.
What trend? What has GW locked behind a subscription paywall that you can't readily get with regards to models and rules? Name me a single thing.
Nonsense would imply its totally outside of realms of possibility. Do you think its totally outside of realms of possibility ?
In this instance yes, absolutely because it wouldn't be a sound business decision. People like their rule books and Codexes as physical copies, it would do loads more damage to remove that option.
I don't think it will come to it. I certainly hope it doesn't.
I certainly don't like the possibility.
It's about as possible as GW deciding to return to exclusively metal models tomorrow.
There is a difference between speculation and nonsense. You're talking nonsense.
Im surprised you don't think It totally stinks of a "paywall premium sub" style of thing but for minatures... hobby is expensive enough as it is.
And yet things like the Hatchett Partworks series exist. A subscription service that gets you Warhammer at drastically cheaper prices. Weird.
I dont need to buy anything from HP. But I do need to guy the latest GW codex for my army if I wantt o play current edition with my army.. HP has nothing to do with what im saying..
I mean is it really that much of a stretch to think GW would not make this basicaly a mandatory subscription if you want o play their games?
Yes because there isn't a shred of evidence to support this line of thinking.
Where did I say this was a fact that was going to occur? Its merely speculating worst case scenario.
BUT if you wanted evidence then surely having 2 models locked behing a paywall is a start.
What if the next set of models come with kick ass rules that are broken? Not even broken just "unique" or slightly better..
Obviously no evidence for this but its a speculation.. WH is all about P2W already.. why not milk a monthly fee on top?
Lock enough rules, book behind a paywall and its no longer optional if you want to be part of the community.
Nope. There would be loads of legal and other ways to obtain said rules. And if every single rulebook was locked behind an app subscription, Warhammer would die overnight.
By your own standards thats "nonsense". You have no evidence Warhammer would die overnight..
For the record I dont think it would die. I think a lot of people would chekc out but a lot of people would double down because thats how popular GW games are...
Some people don't spend any money with GW for a couple months because their armies are not getting releases/rules. They could ensure everybody is giving them at least £6 a month...
Nope.
Yes.
The cynic in me says this is exactly what they are going for.
The fearmongering GW-hater you mean?
The only hater seems to be you mate... Im just throwing some ideas out there riffing...
Are you afraid my post will lower your GW shares or something ? : D
If they can charge people for simply wanting to participate in the community what makes you think they wouldn't monetise it ?
Plenty of people would lap it up without a second though.
Except this is utter tosh and has no basis in reality.
Plenty of companies have moved to/attempted a subscription based services thing.. You think GW is above that as a company ?
I don't care about what it is now. I care about the direction this is likely to go..
You don't know what direction it's going to go so you're making up scary nonsense to further fan the flames of anti-GW sentiment.
Like I said earlier, be mad at actual problems and don't make up nonsense to justify your beliefs.
I think you are projecting something personal here.. Not sure why are you so vehemently attacking me...
I'm not mad at all at GW nor care. They can do what they want. I buy the stuff I like and support the things I like GW or not.. If I hated GW surely i wouldn't buy anything from hem or participate in their game... A paywall subscription style service might certainly drive me away for good though
I have no idea where you got this idea that im somehow stating that this is what GW will do 100%... Of course I'm just riffing here.
But I don't think its totally outside of realm of possibility and will have to see how things are if and when they come..
Argive wrote: How's it nonsense to think GW may put more and more stuff behind the WH+ umbrella paywall if its going to be making them lots of money?
Because there is no indication that Warhammer + is going to make the company boatloads of cash. It's £60 a year, not £60 a month. Compare that to the sales from physical books and it'll be far less, I guarantee it.
Its £6 now because it has bugger all on it.
What's going to stop it going up to £10 in two years time with lots of things that are "premium content"
GW love their mid edition price hikes. Why would the subscription be any different?
You are entitled to your opinion.
Just because you don't like the possible trend I'm pointing out don't make it nonsense.
What trend? What has GW locked behind a subscription paywall that you can't readily get with regards to models and rules? Name me a single thing.
Umm did you miss the two models that will be exclusive to the WH+ people stated at launch?? Or at leats thats how I understood it.
What would happen if GW decide that if they make more of these exclusive model and also put up the price sub up? You think people would stop paying all of a sudden?
What if its exclusive indexes or something next ?
Nonsense would imply its totally outside of realms of possibility. Do you think its totally outside of realms of possibility ?
In this instance yes, absolutely because it wouldn't be a sound business decision. People like their rule books and Codexes as physical copies, it would do loads more damage to remove that option.
1. Huge number of the community disagrees with you and they only want the data cards and rules and dont care for books.
2. The people that want the books could get them earlier then the un-subscribed people... Tell me that wouldn't incentivise people.
I don't think it will come to it. I certainly hope it doesn't.
I certainly don't like the possibility.
It's about as possible as GW deciding to return to exclusively metal models tomorrow.
Well they did do a bunch of made to order metal stuff a few months back I think ?
Argive wrote: I dont need to buy anything from HP. But I do need to guy the latest GW codex for my army if I wantt o play current edition with my army.. HP has nothing to do with what im saying..
You called it a premium subscription service for minis and said it the hobby was expensive enough already. The Partworks have everything to with what you're saying because it's a cheap subscription service for minis.
Where did I say this was a fact that was going to occur? Its merely speculating worst case scenario.
Blind speculation is just fearmongering. All you're doing is planting doubt where none exists.
BUT if you wanted evidence then surely having 2 models locked behing a paywall is a start.
2 models which represent units that already have models available to buy. Not the smoking gun you're making it out to be.
What if the next set of models come with kick ass rules that are broken? Not even broken just "unique" or slightly better..
And what if it isn't? So far the models revealed as part of WH+ don't have unique rules that make them broken or anything of the sort. They're just alternative models.
Obviously no evidence for this but its a speculation.. WH is all about P2W already.. why not milk a monthly fee on top?
Because it's needless negativity and fearmongering for literally no reason.
By your own standards thats "nonsense". You have no evidence Warhammer would die overnight..
For the record I dont think it would die. I think a lot of people would chekc out but a lot of people would double down because thats how popular GW games are...
People are already mad that digi-Codexes are gone, it's not a stretch to imagine the outcry if physical copies were removed from circulation.
The only hater seems to be you mate... Im just throwing some ideas out there riffing...
Are you afraid my post will lower your GW shares or something ? : D
Ideas that only serve to promote negative viewpoints based on non-existent evidence. I have and will call out stupid or bad business practices if I deem it appropriate but making up nonsense that someone, somewhere will take as gospel and spread it around like the plague is how we get situations like with Alfabusa.
Plenty of companies have moved to/attempted a subscription based services thing.. You think GW is above that as a company ?
Companies with huge media catalogs, yes. Can you name a single company that requires a subscription service to use rules?
I think you are projecting something personal here.. Not sure why are you so vehemently attacking me...
It's not personal, you're just the only one posting such nonsense.
Can you name any other company that sells as many books/rules as GW with such a massive "churn"? Its complete bonkers... And yet they are still in business. GW is very unique in its position within the market & the industry. They have the monopoly on GW hobby. They can charge you for GW hobby if they want...
Many people myself included have been advocating for a rules in one place system..
If they offered like a £10 a month sub where you got all the rules rather then have to wait for paper books a lot of people would happily pay that, Heck Id probably be one of them. Nothing stopping them making physical books on top for the collectors like me who'd buy them anyway..
They'd make heaps of money on anyone who would normally only buy 2-3 codexes in an edition cycle..
Getting random streaming service and list building app on top would just be a bonus and all parts of the hobby would drive sales respectively...
GW has always been about bringing everything together under one roof type of company. Growing the WH+ to encompass more parts of the hobby seems like the sort of thing they'd want to do. They are not a content creation company so they will have to supplement their WH+ with something I think. Why not rules? Why not models with rules?
I don't think its as bad a business idea as you make it out to be.
Not saying they'd do it tomorrow or today but two years from now? Who knows.
See, what I've read is that they hired them, not threatened or abused them.
Most of the people took the job too, so either:
a) the pay was good enough
b) the job security was good enough
c) the benefits were good enough
d) the intrinsic rewards of doing what you love for a living was enough
e) the degree of control retained by the creator was sufficient
f) the animators are looking to build a career and thought that the job might increase their contacts and reputation within the industry more than fan art youtube videos
Or some combination of those six elements.
Now I'm not saying GW is perfect, no corporation is. I wish the content creators were able to talk about their arrangements so we knew whether they had it good or not. But not being able to disclose salary and the inner workings of a contract are very common business practices.
If the animators were having a bad experience, I'm guessing they'd leave; we know that one has, but interestingly enough, if I recall correctly, this creator wasn't getting communication from GW, which is bad, but in terms of actual abuse, the creator was getting far more of that from @$$ho3$ who call themselves "fans" because THEY were P!$$3D because the creator getting his dream job meant that they couldn't continue to get the work for free.
And yes, I know, many of these creators do have fans who financially support their work via patreon, but funny thing: since those guys were already paying, they're probably far less upset about a $70/ year subscription since they now get not only the creator of their choice for their money, but other creators as well.
Talk to people in the Gig economy. It is true there are a handful who love it. In my experience, they are the minority- almost every gig worker I've ever spoken to would much prefer a real job.
We know GW doesn't pay well to creatives, that's an established fact. I really doubt most of the content creators big enough to get "approached" (call it an offer, a threat, whatever) will make anywhere near as much money working for GW as they did via freelance. And just to make sure the door is not opened, I say all of this as a statement irrespective of the legality of the freelance operations. That's not the point here (not preemptively accusing you of bringing up something irrelevant, Jake, just trying to get that out of the way.)
Gene my boy, the issue I have with the whole calling it an "approach" is there isn't a way for GW to force them to work for them. This isn't Seinfeld, where the judge can force you to be a butler due to a car wreck. The fact that many took the offer indicates that there is more value in working for the evil corporation than staying freelance or even getting a job elsewhere. Now, that's not to say that creative types at GW, or even across many fields, are underpaid for the work put in. But the idea that an IP suit could force them into employment by the evil empire makes little sense.
except right now we have no reason to assume content will be locked behind it, so far what we know is that their content will in fact be locked behind BOOK purchases, requiring you to buy a book before the content is unlocked in an app. if GW was going to do some sort of subscription digital service thingy, they'd instead have bundled those codes with a digital purchase only. and kept producing digital books. ones only accessable on their website. which clearly isn't happening.
we can specculate as to future plans etc, but it's little more then parinoid conspiracy theories at this time.
If their animated content isn't going to be worth it then they're going to be looking at ways to make that subscription worthwhile. Perks will be a very simple thing for them to do, and that could go sour pretty easily.
Gene my boy, the issue I have with the whole calling it an "approach" is there isn't a way for GW to force them to work for them. This isn't Seinfeld, where the judge can force you to be a butler due to a car wreck. The fact that many took the offer indicates that there is more value in working for the evil corporation than staying freelance or even getting a job elsewhere. Now, that's not to say that creative types at GW, or even across many fields, are underpaid for the work put in. But the idea that an IP suit could force them into employment by the evil empire makes little sense.
Sneakyferret my boy ... it is absolutely an "approach". One that used to be used all too often in the entertainment industry. I'll spare everyone my TedTalk on it, but if you're interested on how this works, look at my posts here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/798400.page#11136040
TL;DR - can they literally, legally "force" them to work for them? No. Can they strong-arm them in a very underhanded and cynical way? Yes. You are wrong to simply assume the creators agreement indicates that it's a good deal. I may be wrong as well. I just know this is a scenario that has played out too many times in the past to not be suspicious.
except right now we have no reason to assume content will be locked behind it, so far what we know is that their content will in fact be locked behind BOOK purchases, requiring you to buy a book before the content is unlocked in an app. if GW was going to do some sort of subscription digital service thingy, they'd instead have bundled those codes with a digital purchase only. and kept producing digital books. ones only accessable on their website. which clearly isn't happening.
we can specculate as to future plans etc, but it's little more then parinoid conspiracy theories at this time.
Yeah - they'd be especially foolish to lock everything behind the sub any time soon. They need it to launch and be successful before they even think about that. Obviously the shows will be behind the pay-wall (as that's the whole point of the platform), but anything else? At the very least, that's a stretch for them at this point. MAYBE in the future, but as you say, we don't really have evidence yet.
EDIT:
Meant to also say that I tried to check this out, but I really couldn't get into it. On multiple levels. I didn't make it very far, but then I'm guessing this particular show wasn't meant "for me" so I'm hesitant to be too harsh on it.
Gert wrote: Anyone want to stop making up random nonsense that has no basis in reality?
Seriously, be annoyed at things that are actually there.
Amen. Its pretty clear that a large segment of this fanbase suffer from severe delusion and paranoia. What little has been said by the animators themselves has only been positive, that GW has been very generous and the offer they made them was too good to say no to - we know what these animators were making in many cases, tahnks to the transparency of patreon, in most cases it was 6+ figures a year - I very much doubt GW offered them less than what they thought they could get doing non-GW freelance content). The only negative we've heard was from a guy who said that GW wasn't responding to his emails (any number of reasons why that might be) and ultimately quit because he was being harassed by fans who made him uninterested in continuing to work on the IP.
People seem to be taking things out of context (no, GW doesn't pay its "creatives" poorly, it paid its rules writers/game designers poorly - James was pretty clear that he didn't know what the sculptors and artists made but that he suspected it was a good bit more than he was getting paid, and later clarified further that his friends and contacts within the company were in general disagreement with his assessment of the compensation situation there) or just making gak up (no, they aren't going to be "blacklisted" for speaking out against GW. GW is a non-factor in the animation/video game/film & television/entertainment industry, its effectively an indy startup when it comes to its status to anyone that matters in terms of the career advancements of these animators. If they were well known creatives at a major, well-established, and reputable studio it would be one thing, but as it stands they can say whatever they wanted about GW and nobody that they would be interviewing with for work in the future would ever have heard anything about it. Not to mention the fact that most of these guys are fairly anonymous and only really known by their online usernames/handles).
They *should* be happy for the animators (in general they seem to be pretty happy for themselves) instead of peddling tinfoil hat conspiracies of these guys being enslaved/tortured/held at gunpoint/forced to accept job offers under duress and coercion, etc. I assure you, if they were actually being threatened and blackmailed into working for GW they would stand to make significantly more money in what would essentially be a pro-bono lawsuit about that than they would doing anything else.
I can't speak for GW, but I can speak with experience at the apex of the games industry - in organisations that make much more than GW.
A 'Games Designer' is absolutely a creative role. Would definitely be getting paid more than an animator in most cases, and neither would be pulling down six figures...
I'd be utterly shocked if people in those positions are making anything near that working for GW. We know categorically, that rates of pay within that company, are very much on the low side for equivalent roles in other places.
I can't say I know for certain (and nor can anyone stating the contrary), but it's a very sensible conclusion based on what we do know. Being realistic based on the evidence we have (while still being prepared to be wrong), isn't being paranoid.
In terms of other sensible conclusions:
- We shouldn't expect to know definitively any time soon what pay and conditions are like for these guys, as no-one is likely to speak about the terms of their position at a company they just joined. Especially if what they have to say is negative.
- What they made before via ad revenue, patreon etc is not very relevant. GW's policy changes toward fan content such as this have made such an income look incredible unstable at best. They are in a position, quite literally, to say 'do this for us, or not at all', OR 'do this for us, or be taken to court'. I'm not saying this occurred, but the implication seems very clear to the creators that didn't get hired, yet chose to shut down.
Stating, 'Look, we're changing our policies toward content like yours, because we're launching a streaming service. This isn't something we'll turn a blind eye to in future, but we'd love you to come and create this content for us.' Is very different in tone to having a gun put to your head (which is of course ridiculous), but the end result is much the same, if you want to continue doing what you love.
It should be ok for the community to have a problem with this. And they shouldn't have to deal with 'tin foil hat' insults in response, in place of reasoned, respectful discussion of the counterpoint either. We can be better than that.
I can't speak for GW, but I can speak with experience at the apex of the games industry - in organisations that make much more than GW.
A 'Games Designer' is absolutely a creative role. Would definitely be getting paid more than an animator in most cases, and neither would be pulling down six figures...
Game designers in the video game industry are an entirely different animal from designers in the tabletop industry. I can tell you that while James wages at GW were atrociously low, there aren't any game devs at any of the major tabletop game publishers making 6 figure salaries with the exception of a literal handful of guys (who are mostly freelancers or on extended contracts with the publishers) like Eric Lang whos name on the box basically guarantees100,000 copies of the game will be sold within a week or two of release (which is an absurd number, in the tabletop industry most games will never sell more than 2,000-3,000 copies).
Being a rules writer/game designer (theres a reason I keep putting that slash there) in the tabletop industry isn't a particularly competitive job market, even less so within the miniature wargaming sub-niche where theres basically only a handful of real employer options (GW, Asmodee/FFG/AMG, Privateer Press, Warlord, Battlefront, Wyrd, Warcradle, Corvus Belli, and then debatably also Catalyst, CMON, and Wizkids). Most of those shops are pretty small and limited to only a handful of actual design staff (and most of them rely on freelancers and contract staff), everyone else is an artist, illustrator or logistics/manufacturing/customer service, etc. Only GW really has an extensive staff of writers/designers on payroll. Everyone else in the industry is basically operating out of their basement/garage or the staff have a financial stake in the company itself.
So in general, you either take what money you can get or you find another industry to work in unless you get lucky and manage to get a spot with one of the handful of other businesses in the industry. Its not like other industries where companies will pay top dollar to recruit talent from a competitor or where theres more openings than there are people to fill them.
Which leads me to...
I'd be utterly shocked if people in those positions are making anything near that working for GW. We know categorically, that rates of pay within that company, are very much on the low side for equivalent roles in other places.
An artist, an animator, a sculptor, etc. has many more career opportunities open to them outside of the tabletop industry than a tabletop game designer does. Wages for good artists, animators, 3d modelers/sculptors, etc. is going to be competitive on the basis that there are other companies that people can go to in other industries where they can practice their craft.
I can't say I know for certain (and nor can anyone stating the contrary), but it's a very sensible conclusion based on what we do know. Being realistic based on the evidence we have (while still being prepared to be wrong), isn't being paranoid.
You're conveniently discounting or ignoring the various statements made by the animators, which while not being particularly detailed, did indicate in general that their interactions with GW were positive and they were excited by the opportunity, etc. Of course, that doesn't fit your narrative so you choose to ignore it and substitute your own reality and pretend there is an absence of evidence in order to suit your fantasy that GW is a generic mustache-twirling faceless evil corporation. Sounds pretty paranoid to me.
- What they made before via ad revenue, patreon etc is not very relevant. GW's policy changes toward fan content such as this have made such an income look incredible unstable at best. They are in a position, quite literally, to say 'do this for us, or not at all', OR 'do this for us, or be taken to court'. I'm not saying this occurred, but the implication seems very clear to the creators that didn't get hired, yet chose to shut down.
Its absolutely relevant. Just because GW stops you from producing new content based on their IP doesn't mean you can't produce new content based on another/an original IP. Look at Alfabusa, he shut himself down and actually got *more* patreon subs and views as a result of that even though he isn't really producing any content at all currently and looking to switch over to a completely different IP (Battletech). Theres also at least one instance of a creator who was approached by GW, turned down their offer, and has continued to produce new content, seemingly unmolested by GW. Also "do this for us or..." is absolutely 100% illegal and can land GW in some real hot water.
Argive wrote: Can you name any other company that sells as many books/rules as GW with such a massive "churn"? Its complete bonkers... And yet they are still in business. GW is very unique in its position within the market & the industry. They have the monopoly on GW hobby. They can charge you for GW hobby if they want...
Many people myself included have been advocating for a rules in one place system..
If they offered like a £10 a month sub where you got all the rules rather then have to wait for paper books a lot of people would happily pay that, Heck Id probably be one of them. Nothing stopping them making physical books on top for the collectors like me who'd buy them anyway..
They'd make heaps of money on anyone who would normally only buy 2-3 codexes in an edition cycle..
Getting random streaming service and list building app on top would just be a bonus and all parts of the hobby would drive sales respectively...
GW has always been about bringing everything together under one roof type of company. Growing the WH+ to encompass more parts of the hobby seems like the sort of thing they'd want to do. They are not a content creation company so they will have to supplement their WH+ with something I think.
Why not rules? Why not models with rules?
I don't think its as bad a business idea as you make it out to be.
Not saying they'd do it tomorrow or today but two years from now? Who knows.
The end result is the same: Warhammer loicense
This looks like a complete hobby nightmare... Unfortunatly if GW thinks it would increase their profits they would probably follow that path... Wikes
You're conveniently discounting or ignoring the various statements made by the animators, which while not being particularly detailed, did indicate in general that their interactions with GW were positive and they were excited by the opportunity, etc. Of course, that doesn't fit your narrative so you choose to ignore it and substitute your own reality and pretend there is an absence of evidence in order to suit your fantasy that GW is a generic mustache-twirling faceless evil corporation. Sounds pretty paranoid to me.
That's absolute rubbish. Please don't pretend to know my mind and tell me what I'm counting or discounting. Nor have I ever implied that GW is evil in any way! If I truly thought that, I wouldn't spend money with them. You continue to be needlessly insulting toward anyone who simply does not agree with you.
I'm sorry, companies - especially those involved in the entertainment sector - DO pay far lower (generally) than mainstream industry. I have been part of this exact phenomena throughout my professional career.
You know what? I would never have bad-mouthed (publicly) Electronic Arts while I was employed there. I'd have been an idiot to. The new hires at GW might well be happy with their lot. As I said earlier in this thread - good for them! But you show me proof of a six figure salary paid to an animator by GW. Because without that, your position is more easily disregarded than mine. My partner was a professional animator in industry, for one of the largest companies on the planet, and never, ever has pulled a six figure wage. Ever. Nor has any member of her team - some of whom hail from ILM, Dreamworks etc. That's my 'reality', actual, solid experience of that job and its pay.
Again, as I also said in this thread, it is less about the people they hired, and far more about those they didn't, and who felt they had to shut down. Another 'reality'.
Its absolutely relevant. Just because GW stops you from producing new content based on their IP doesn't mean you can't produce new content based on another/an original IP. Look at Alfabusa, he shut himself down and actually got *more* patreon subs and views as a result of that even though he isn't really producing any content at all currently and looking to switch over to a completely different IP (Battletech). Theres also at least one instance of a creator who was approached by GW, turned down their offer, and has continued to produce new content, seemingly unmolested by GW. Also "do this for us or..." is absolutely 100% illegal and can land GW in some real hot water.
If you read and understood what I said, I didn't state that GW made a threat. I drew a comparison based on the position they have put people in. If GW intends to protect their IP, as they have in the past (reality), and as they have just updated their documentation to indicate (reality), then what future is there for someone making 40K fan animations? That an individual, hasn't (to our knowledge) been 'molested' in what? A matter of days, two weeks at most? Indicates... nothing. Whatsoever. We have no idea how they will react. Not me, not you. What we have is their past behaviour, and an indication of intent from information GW put out - both of which do not look promising. Reality.
Alfabusa doesn't remotely make your case for you, when they are quite literally looking to stop making GW based content, and are thinking of switching to Battletech instead. How precisely is that them being unaffected by GW policy changes and the launch of WH+?
I'm drawing possible conclusions based on what we know - while fully admitting that I could be wrong because there is much we don't. Your position so far is part assumption, part insult to anyone who holds a different view. Maybe you are right, but it remains a fact that a strong argument stands just fine on its own - it doesn't require vitriol or derision to be part of it's foundation.
You know what? I would never have bad-mouthed (publicly) Electronic Arts while I was employed there. I'd have been an idiot to. The new hires at GW might well be happy with their lot. As I said earlier in this thread - good for them! But you show me proof of a six figure salary paid to an animator by GW. Because without that, your position is more easily disregarded than mine. My partner was a professional animator in industry, for one of the largest companies on the planet, and never, ever has pulled a six figure wage. Ever. Nor has any member of her team - some of whom hail from ILM, Dreamworks etc. That's my 'reality', actual, solid experience of that job and its pay.
So thats my bad, I misread your post:
A 'Games Designer' is absolutely a creative role. Would definitely be getting paid more than an animator in most cases, and neither would be pulling down six figures...
I missed the "neither" and thought you were saying that they would get 6 in the video game industry.
My understanding though (based on an interview with the guy behind Angels of Death) is that these guys are essentially being treated as "studios" rather than "employees", and their income is inclusive of the production budgets to design and render all the assets, etc. In which case, yeah they would be getting paid 6 figures, though they would also have expenses coming out of that too - as was the case when they were doing it as a side gig on patreon, etc.
I'd be utterly shocked if people in those positions are making anything near that working for GW. We know categorically, that rates of pay within that company, are very much on the low side for equivalent roles in other places.
I can't say I know for certain (and nor can anyone stating the contrary), but it's a very sensible conclusion based on what we do know. Being realistic based on the evidence we have (while still being prepared to be wrong), isn't being paranoid.
Its really not though. If I can pull $250k+/year on patreon (as was the case with the guy behind Astartes), off of a 5 minute animation which earned me international acclaim and name recognition well outside the 40k community that I could well and away leverage into a professional position with one of the companies you've mentioned, I'm not going to shut that down and walk away from it for a $30-40k per year salary. Just not going to happen. Anyone that takes that deal is out of their mind. GW can tell me to cease and desist on producing further Astartes content, sure, but I *still* have the Patreon (even if it is scrubbed of Astartes) and I *still* have the name recognition and followership. Even if they forced the entire Patreon to shut down, there are ways to rebuild that subscription base pretty quickly (and it would probably get me even *more* subs because people flock to those sorts of david v goliath martyrdom stories like white on rice). Even if I go bugger off and do my own thing with my own IP or a smaller lesser known IP, I would probably still retain a sizeable chunk of that followership if I played my cards right, while also attracting new followers from other communities. Theres really no justifiable reason or explanation for why I would shut down a $250k per year income for less - I could see an argument for taking a salary half that if it meant more stability or whatever, but if the options were "take our proposal for 1/6th of what you're currently making, or find a new IP to mine", I'd find a new IP to mine.
If you read and understood what I said, I didn't state that GW made a threat. I drew a comparison based on the position they have put people in. If GW intends to protect their IP, as they have in the past (reality), and as they have just updated their documentation to indicate (reality), then what future is there for someone making 40K fan animations? That an individual, hasn't (to our knowledge) been 'molested' in what? A matter of days, two weeks at most? Indicates... nothing. Whatsoever. We have no idea how they will react. Not me, not you. What we have is their past behaviour, and an indication of intent from information GW put out - both of which do not look promising. Reality.
The legal system generally does not take kindly to IP infringement cases that are brought forward without the plaintiff demonstrating that they first made an effort to communicate and resolve the issue with the defendant. They especially won't take kindly to a lawsuit where the defendant can counterclaim that the legal action is retribution or reprisal for not agreeing to a job offer, etc. This is just basic legal reality, and I'm sure GW is well aware that doing something more drastic can have not only a damaging impact on their IP (similar to Chapterhouse), but also financial ramifications (penalties, fines, damages, etc. awarded to the defendant), result in jailtime (predatory legal practices on the part of GW legal), and irreparably damage the brand in terms of the companies relationship with its customers and community.
In short, the "position" you are imagining here does not actually exist.
Alfabusa doesn't remotely make your case for you, when they are quite literally looking to stop making GW based content, and are thinking of switching to Battletech instead. How precisely is that them being unaffected by GW policy changes and the launch of WH+?
Alfabusa *chose* to stop producing 40k content. They were not asked or told to. They did not reach out to GW legal to get clarification on whether GW would regard TTS as being a work of parody and thus legally protected, etc. There was no suggestion that GW would take any action against Alfabusa and TTS whatsoever, and to date they haven't. Note that every episode of TTS remains online on youtube on a monetized channel, to this day. Alfabusa no longer making new episodes is irrelevant, while those episodes are online GW is still within their legal right to issue a C&D and have his youtube channel and patreon pulled. And yet... they haven't. Imagine that.
In any case, the case which Alfabusa does make for me is that GW pulling the rug out from an animator that doesn't agree to take a job with them by telling them to C&D on producing further 40k animations doesn't actually mean that the animator in question suddenly loses their income. I.E. the leverage or position you are imaging GW has to coerce an animator to obey doesn't exist. While Alfabusa was not C&D'd he did voluntarily put out a notice stating he would make no further episodes. His supporter base did not suddenly unsubscribe for him and stop giving him money, instead he actually had a steady stream of new subs from people as he transitions over to producing Battletech content or whatever, even while most of his existing fanbase aren't actually Battletech fans.
I really appreciate you taking the time to re-read and consider the earlier part of my post Omega - thank you for that.
I can't accurately predict the future, and without knowing more about what GW will do, there's little I can add in terms of honest argument. I would be speculating, and that - as you and others rightly have implied, gets us nowhere - even if it were an interesting thought exercise (which I'm not certain it is).
You make some good points, and we'll all see in time how the 'drama' around the launch of this new service unfolds.
I think ultimately, my concern is that GW has been heavy handed in the past, and occasionally makes decisions which appear, frankly, bizarre. I really love this hobby, and want it's community to be not just healthy, but an asset both to GW, and to itself. I think we can, as a community, encourage them to be clearer about what they intend, where that leaves passionate, creative fans within their community, and maybe remind them that those people can do a lot of good for them in truth.
I was never personally invested in any of the affected content. It's not my thing really. But I do feel bad for those that feel they have had to shut up shop. And maybe you're right, and they didn't have to. But it's there I think GW could have clarified their position.
I hope WH+ becomes a positive service that enriches the hobby. Right now, I don't think it's doing that - but it's early days, and it's undoubtedly going to grow. Fingers crossed eh?
They *should* be happy for the animators (in general they seem to be pretty happy for themselves) instead of peddling tinfoil hat conspiracies of these guys being enslaved/tortured/held at gunpoint/forced to accept job offers under duress and coercion, etc. I assure you, if they were actually being threatened and blackmailed into working for GW they would stand to make significantly more money in what would essentially be a pro-bono lawsuit about that than they would doing anything else.
Heh ... if only it really worked like that. But what you listed is ... naive. What GW is doing is literally, play-for-play straight out of the old-school studio playbook. Make no mistake. You're an independent creator. You don't have much money. GW offers a job on one hand or Thor's hammer to the face in the other .... most are taking the job.
No one has said "they're being tortured/abused" etc. But, from experience, I can tell you this was, at the very least, a strategy for talent phishing. A very cynical one that, at the very least, allowed them to low-ball the deal. They have every right to protect their IP and certainly it needs to be said they could have just brought legal action and NOT offered employment but on the other hand .... go read my posts in the thread I linked to ...
They *should* be happy for the animators (in general they seem to be pretty happy for themselves) instead of peddling tinfoil hat conspiracies of these guys being enslaved/tortured/held at gunpoint/forced to accept job offers under duress and coercion, etc. I assure you, if they were actually being threatened and blackmailed into working for GW they would stand to make significantly more money in what would essentially be a pro-bono lawsuit about that than they would doing anything else.
Heh ... if only it really worked like that. But what you listed is ... naive. What GW is doing is literally, play-for-play straight out of the old-school studio playbook. Make no mistake. You're an independent creator. You don't have much money. GW offers a job on one hand or Thor's hammer to the face in the other .... most are taking the job.
No one has said "they're being tortured/abused" etc. But, from experience, I can tell you this was, at the very least, a strategy for talent phishing. A very cynical one that, at the very least, allowed them to low-ball the deal. They have every right to protect their IP and certainly it needs to be said they could have just brought legal action and NOT offered employment but on the other hand .... go read my posts in the thread I linked to ...
My 2c:
Making fan works isn't really being an indie creator, because you're not really creating something new independently. It's a passion project for something you like. Presumably, assuming you're not in college or something, you're making your money in a real job. [And, if you are making fan works as your sole source of income, that's incredibly reckless and long-term unsustainable]
GW is going to have to "do better" than whatever your day job is for you to drop what you're doing and work for them full time. Or you take on their contract part time as a matter of entertainment, in which case it's a little bit nice extra to actually get paid for making a tribute to something you like and recognized by it's creator.
On the original topic, I didn't watch it, and I don't plan to subscribe. I didn't even know it happened, or I might have to see what it was though. That said, it doesn't have anything I feel like I need in my life [or engaged with before]. I don't really care about batreps, and I probably wouldn't watch a professional Warhammer 40k show or movie.
Also professional short animations for GW would be a great way to pad a resume/make contacts , the folks working for GW likely aren't looking at GW as "I'm stopping here" they likely view it as a "... this'll be a great way to eventually get that job with an animation studio, or even Pixar!"
BrianDavion wrote: Also professional short animations for GW would be a great way to pad a resume/make contacts , the folks working for GW likely aren't looking at GW as "I'm stopping here" they likely view it as a "... this'll be a great way to eventually get that job with an animation studio, or even Pixar!"
This too.
I think it's nice of GW to provide the opportunity, even if it's just to a small subset who got their attention that they liked.
BrianDavion wrote: Also professional short animations for GW would be a great way to pad a resume/make contacts , the folks working for GW likely aren't looking at GW as "I'm stopping here" they likely view it as a "... this'll be a great way to eventually get that job with an animation studio, or even Pixar!"
This too.
I think it's nice of GW to provide the opportunity, even if it's just to a small subset who got their attention that they liked.
I mean it's a transactional relationship, and I suspect GW got the better end of the deal, but yeah, hopefully this'll be a step to greater things for some of these people
Argive wrote: Can you name any other company that sells as many books/rules as GW with such a massive "churn"? Its complete bonkers... And yet they are still in business. GW is very unique in its position within the market & the industry. They have the monopoly on GW hobby. They can charge you for GW hobby if they want...
The ministry of education. Obligatory books that they pick you need to learn at school, with maybe some options of additional books. But in general you have one official book per subject. Printed in private print shops, so uncles/fathers/etc can make good money, Changed every 10 months, so you can't use the book from prior year. Cost of the books themselfs are mandated by the state, making the books cost as if they were laced with gold.
Argive wrote: Can you name any other company that sells as many books/rules as GW with such a massive "churn"? Its complete bonkers... And yet they are still in business. GW is very unique in its position within the market & the industry. They have the monopoly on GW hobby. They can charge you for GW hobby if they want...
The ministry of education. Obligatory books they pick you need to learn at school, with maybe some options of additional books, but in general you have one official book per subject. Printed in private print shops, so uncles/fathers/etc can make good money, Changed every 10 months, so you can't use the book from prior year. Cost of the books themselfs are mandated by the state, making the books cost as if they were laced with gold.
BrianDavion wrote: Also professional short animations for GW would be a great way to pad a resume/make contacts , the folks working for GW likely aren't looking at GW as "I'm stopping here" they likely view it as a "... this'll be a great way to eventually get that job with an animation studio, or even Pixar!"
This too.
I think it's nice of GW to provide the opportunity, even if it's just to a small subset who got their attention that they liked.
I mean it's a transactional relationship, and I suspect GW got the better end of the deal, but yeah, hopefully this'll be a step to greater things for some of these people
No. This isn't how it works anymore. If you're not in the industry, what you're saying makes sense. But "It will be great experience", "Think about the exposure," "It's a great way to pad your resume," = we can't pay you. I realize GW never said that, but just pointing out why some in the thread are balking at some of the statements made by the posters who clearly don't have as much (or possibly any) experience in this area.
And the fact is, it's never been easier to make money if you're as skilled as some of these folks are. Do you really think anyone cares if Sayama has "worked for Games Workshop" on his resume? No. No they do not. Most of the time, when I'm hiring for an art position on my team (whether it be animation, illustration, Industrial Design, etc) I don't even look at the resume. It's straight to the portfolio. If this person has a demo reel with Astartes quality work on it, they're getting an interview. I don't care if they don't even HAVE a resume at that point ...
As far as "conditions," we at least know that several of the creators have already said GW isn't supporting them properly in terms of timely feedback, and consistent communication. This was one of the key contributors to Ultramarines being such a disaster, and if you read the posts I made in the thread I linked, you'll see I predicted that too. This isn't being set up correctly. It just isn't. I'm not saying they're torturing people over there (no one is and whoever said that is off their rocker), and I'm not saying this is going to fail or that GW DEFINITELY did something shady here. Only time will tell. But I am saying this wreaks of a fairly problematic approach on several levels.
But again, far as the Ork animation they just shared - I think it's important to consider whether or not you as the viewer were in the target demographic. My sense is, that was meant for a younger crowd (at least as far as I could tell from what I watched - didn't see the whole thing). I was underwhelmed and tuned out quick, but I am pretty sure it wasn't aimed at "me" anyway.
Which creators who are actually working with GW have said they get slow feedback and poor communication?
I know the DKoK creator had it but they don't work with GW.
Argive wrote: Can you name any other company that sells as many books/rules as GW with such a massive "churn"? Its complete bonkers... And yet they are still in business. GW is very unique in its position within the market & the industry. They have the monopoly on GW hobby. They can charge you for GW hobby if they want...
The ministry of education. Obligatory books they pick you need to learn at school, with maybe some options of additional books, but in general you have one official book per subject. Printed in private print shops, so uncles/fathers/etc can make good money, Changed every 10 months, so you can't use the book from prior year. Cost of the books themselfs are mandated by the state, making the books cost as if they were laced with gold.
Gert wrote: Anyone want to stop making up random nonsense that has no basis in reality?
Seriously, be annoyed at things that are actually there.
What little has been said by the animators themselves has only been positive
well yes, as they aren't going to bad mouth their employer, they would get the sack!
that GW has been very generous and the offer they made them was too good to say no to - we know what these animators were making in many cases, tahnks to the transparency of patreon, in most cases it was 6+ figures a year - I very much doubt GW offered them less than what they thought they could get doing non-GW freelance content).
Wait, you think GW is paying individual animators £100,000+. Seriously? Their rules writers, the back bone of the IP, aren't making near that! Management roles aren't paying that!
The very few that were making 6 figures did so on the back of GW's IP. If they were just doing random animations they wouldn't have near the audience so the choice they were given was 'work for us or unemployment'
Astartes was making 20000€+ MONTHLY on his Patreon.
Even if you subtract Patreon fees, He'd probably come out with 150000€ per year. No way you give up that kind of money to have the privilege of earning a third of that and working for GW.
Didn't the guy behind Astartes said that although he was being paid less, he said it was a good offer that's reliable and all above board. Whereas his Patreon was unreliable and of questionable validity given his use of IP he didn't own.
I believe "the guy" producing Astartes was also multiple people, or at least the Patreon money was used to pay multiple people, often in an ad hoc fashion. While there's no way GW offered him money equivalent to his Patreon I don't think he was personally earning as much as people assume. There's also something to be said for a more secure employment offer still doing the thing you love doing.
Ultimately we have no idea what he was personally making before going to work for GW and we don't know what his personal circumstances were and how much of his free time Astartes was taking up. We don't know what the GW offer was either. I think there are too many unknowns to get a proper sense of the whole situation.
Naturally.
Do you think he's going to come out like Sodaz did and say that they went with the "work for us or lose the entirety of your income" approach?
Thairne wrote: Naturally. Do you think he's going to come out like Sodaz did and say that they went with the "work for us or lose the entirety of your income" approach?
If the entirety of his income was based on using someone else's IP that's an eventuality he should have been prepared for from day one. Even so, we can assume the offer was at least reasonable since he accepted it. Or I guess you could assume GW held a gun to his head, and his family's, and his dog's and he's now chained to a desk somewhere in a basement in Lenton.
He did plan on branching out into his own IP because GW came for Astartes.
But it's clear that wasn't going to be anything like as popular as his 40k work.
Gert wrote: Anyone want to stop making up random nonsense that has no basis in reality?
Seriously, be annoyed at things that are actually there.
What little has been said by the animators themselves has only been positive
well yes, as they aren't going to bad mouth their employer, they would get the sack!
that GW has been very generous and the offer they made them was too good to say no to - we know what these animators were making in many cases, tahnks to the transparency of patreon, in most cases it was 6+ figures a year - I very much doubt GW offered them less than what they thought they could get doing non-GW freelance content).
Wait, you think GW is paying individual animators £100,000+. Seriously? Their rules writers, the back bone of the IP, aren't making near that! Management roles aren't paying that!
The very few that were making 6 figures did so on the back of GW's IP. If they were just doing random animations they wouldn't have near the audience so the choice they were given was 'work for us or unemployment'
You think GWs rules writers are the backbone of their IP?
Do you think he's going to come out like Sodaz did and say that they went with the "work for us or lose the entirety of your income" approach?
kirotheavenger wrote: Eh, I take the stance that he didn't have the right to make an income on that anyway. "Gun to your head" doesn't really apply to that situation.
Yeah, I’ve not seen any of this content and haven’t commented previously on what happened to these animators but regardless of what brand were talking about if someone’s making decent money using GW IP then they are lucky they weren’t sued. Being offered a job is a good outcome for these people.
Especially when it’s competing with a planned product range and income stream.
If the astartes stories were that good then maybe GW will put them up on Warhammer plus as part of the settlement with the producers. Sounds like that would be a good outcome for everyone.
mrFickle wrote: If the astartes stories were that good then maybe GW will put them up on Warhammer plus as part of the settlement with the producers. Sounds like that would be a good outcome for everyone.
mrFickle wrote: If the astartes stories were that good then maybe GW will put them up on Warhammer plus as part of the settlement with the producers. Sounds like that would be a good outcome for everyone.
Darren Latham’s YouTube channel finally bit the dust (I know he wasn’t active there anymore), presumably asked to get rid of it to reduce competition for Warhammer+ painting videos.
Horla wrote: Darren Latham’s YouTube channel finally bit the dust (I know he wasn’t active there anymore), presumably asked to get rid of it to reduce competition for Warhammer+ painting videos.
He announced he was taking it down in May of last year from some of the things he said etc it does sound like GW may have asked him to take it down, granted if he's one of the people making the painting tutorial videos I can understand GW wanting him to not provide the same tutorial for free elsewhere
