I didn't miss a thread in N&R, right? Far as I can tell nobody is reporting new WMH stuff here any more, but there's been some previews of Cygnar hyper-tech stuff:
Gun to my head, I would have guessed these were for a Warcaster crossover game / setting, but maybe this style is just where the design studio is at these days. Anyway you can read more about their WMH abilities in those links if you like, plus bigger pics.
I'm looking forward to seeing painted examples of these. I'm also happy that after the fluff time jump forward, we are getting these guys showing off the storm-tech improvements and not something like trencher versions of old units
It will be interesting to see what they do for the other factions to represent time moving forward
The proportions seem more exaggerated and cartoony than they used to be... but I'm not sure if it is just me, if they have actually changed, or if the rest of the market has.
At any rate, for me these models hit the point where it is distracting and even though I like the design the immense size of plating & weapons looks too goofy for me to take seriously.
Warmachine has always been pretty exaggerated and cartoony. I think with the smaller models it was lost a little more often, but the designs have always had a Saturday Morning appeal for me.
Renders also tend to make things look even more exaggerated. Like those Cygnar Sharpshooters are at least 3x the size of the final figure on my screen. They'll shrink down just fine.
Deadnight wrote: The 'look' of the guns has had a big shift - its very different to 'oldmachine'. Less steam punky and more sci-fi (railguns etc).
That's just a Cygnar thing though. Pushing the whole Tesla coil angle has been their thing for a while and I'm sure the Railgun guys are some new prototype unit deal. The other storm weapons are pretty in line with most of the existing storm tech. Nemo was removing coal from Cygnar entirely before the whole, turned into a giant GLaDOS and sent to space thing.
Deadnight wrote: The 'look' of the guns has had a big shift - its very different to 'oldmachine'. Less steam punky and more sci-fi (railguns etc).
That's just a Cygnar thing though. Pushing the whole Tesla coil angle has been their thing for a while and I'm sure the Railgun guys are some new prototype unit deal. The other storm weapons are pretty in line with most of the existing storm tech. Nemo was removing coal from Cygnar entirely before the whole, turned into a giant GLaDOS and sent to space thing.
Is it?
To be fair the khadoran widowmakers rifle is the exact same, at least imo.
I really like most of the new designs but they do seam like too much of a design change for the setting -- but war is one of the biggest drivers of innovation.
A lot of stuff actually looks like it could be pulled from a JRPG. The Railgunners someone could tell me were ripped right out of a recent Final Fantasy game and I'd believe them. That's not a bad thing for the concept but, again, seam out of place for the IK.
Deadnight wrote: The 'look' of the guns has had a big shift - its very different to 'oldmachine'. Less steam punky and more sci-fi (railguns etc).
That's just a Cygnar thing though. Pushing the whole Tesla coil angle has been their thing for a while and I'm sure the Railgun guys are some new prototype unit deal. The other storm weapons are pretty in line with most of the existing storm tech. Nemo was removing coal from Cygnar entirely before the whole, turned into a giant GLaDOS and sent to space thing.
Is it?
To be fair the khadoran widowmakers rifle is the exact same, at least imo.
It's a Warcaster's rifle, so it has to have the glowy bits. That's the mechanika parts that enable boosting. Outside of having a clip on it, its not all that different from the one in Kara Sloan's artwork and a LOT of time has passed in universe from when that thing was brought to the field. Definitely more modern, but not that big of a jump. A lot of the classic metal banding is there. It's really the clip and the new muzzle that have been updated.
Thinking on that further, so Armies are subsets of Factions, but its entirely possible an army could belong to multiple factions. Given the art of the logo, this feels very much like it could be a Cryx/Retribution dual faction army.
Grimtuff wrote: Not a fan of the NMM. Does not scream "Warmachine" at all to me. That said that new Great Bear does look awesome.
Also, what faction logo is the one on the far right (the one slated for October 2023 in the image above)? That one looks new to me.
They started having Angel Giraldez's studio paint their stuff a while ago so ya quite the change in aesthetics. But it's currently the in "style" for wargaming and mini painting.
And to an extend, 'we called it'. They've gone ahead and made a lot of the changes I suspected they would make ('legacy-machine' and 'nu-machine') to make the game accessible. Also interesting to see discussions about 'the squish'. WNK seems to have has more than a little bit of influence on it, which isn't a bad thing. But we'll find out more about that today
I'm glad I started buying up some of the older sculpts though.
And while I can't speak about the dirty swans, and dont think much of the orgoth, the khador stuff looks good and I'm intrigued by the rest.
Only thing I don't see is the lore changes. I like the lore/story/setting of the iron kingdoms - how will this be presented?
Storm Legion look a lot better painted. I certainly like them better than the Storm Knights, which I've always hate a love-hate relationship with. I think the railgunners might look less jarring when they're painted up and looking more 'platemail armoured' than the sci-fi (Warcaster?) trooper vibe the greys give off.
If you scroll up you'll see the other Khador jack, along with the painted Cygnar. Also check that power fist on the Cygnar jack! And the huge cannon! This is possibly the first time I've been attracted to the swans
In other news, I fething love Advanced Wars. I always jump to Metal Slug when I see chibi tanks but the AW energy is more on point.
With the units now to be 3d-printed is there any good reason for PP to keep with their tradition of clone troopers?
It seems like they could easily slightly alter the poses on them now to avoid that since they aren't making molds for them anymore. Or allow a little poseability.
Schmapdi wrote: With the units now to be 3d-printed is there any good reason for PP to keep with their tradition of clone troopers?
It seems like they could easily slightly alter the poses on them now to avoid that since they aren't making molds for them anymore. Or allow a little poseability.
i certainly hope so, given it looks like we are going to 3 man and 5 man squads now
Schmapdi wrote: With the units now to be 3d-printed is there any good reason for PP to keep with their tradition of clone troopers?
It seems like they could easily slightly alter the poses on them now to avoid that since they aren't making molds for them anymore. Or allow a little poseability.
i certainly hope so, given it looks like we are going to 3 man and 5 man squads now
Everything seems to be focused on 3 unique sculpts so I'd expect a couple duplicates in the 5 mans.
Yeah, that's an oversight considering they're digital sculpts, while reposing things can be difficult, the stuff they show are mostly hard surface armored guys that you can just throw a quick rig on to repose.
The cutting and keying of the parts is another issue, but that just needs to be done once.
Vertrucio wrote: Yeah, that's an oversight considering they're digital sculpts, while reposing things can be difficult, the stuff they show are mostly hard surface armored guys that you can just throw a quick rig on to repose.
The cutting and keying of the parts is another issue, but that just needs to be done once.
It's 3D printing, depending on the design there's no need to cut and key pieces at all outside the modular 'jacks.
There are - you can get better prints by cutting up parts of a model and reorienting print angles, etc. Just because you can print it in one solid piece doesn't necessarily mean you should.
chaos0xomega wrote: There are - you can get better prints by cutting up parts of a model and reorienting print angles, etc. Just because you can print it in one solid piece doesn't necessarily mean you should.
True, but you can get away with fewer parts when printing since you aren't as constrained by molding limitations, such as undercuts, etc.
The lore reveals on the new vampire/elves (rip retribution) and khador look really good, though as a loyal patriot of the latter, I would like to see some of the new units and not just the previews of things I only intend to axe-to-face into little pieces.
Cygnwulf wrote: Loving the new Khador warcaster, she might be a contender against my Sorscha 3, depending on what kind of rules my icy kommandant gets.
Surely they can't leave her just as legacy, she's too iconic to the faction....
They confirmed Khador's second Prime army will be Man-o-War so expect Sorscha3 to be one of the casters that gets ported to Prime.
Dire Wolf, Heavy Warjack (previously seen with shield + awkwardly small axe)
Great Bear, Heavy Warjack (same photo as last page)
The Khador page has some rules sneaks for the above as well.
EDIT: The Khador krew seen here come in the Winter Korps preview army available online during GenCon:
Damn those are some great bits
There's also Storm Legion and Sea Raider sets, which will be available AT GenCon as well as online:
Really wish the Orgoth jacks were more inspiring, since I'm most likely to play them out of the first three, but swapping in better heads will instantly help, the two on these are the worst
Dire Wolf, Heavy Warjack (previously seen with shield + awkwardly small axe)
[
^puts on ushanka hat and bad russian accent^
I've reported you to the greylords for unpatriotic behaviour.
All patriots of the motherland know there is no such word in khadoran for 'small'. That is cygnaran treachery and nothing short of disinformation. It discourages national.unity and our national spirit. In khadoran, the root of the words 'bigger' and 'better' are the same. 'Small' is 'weak' and is the character of those treacherous dogs from the south, not of our great strength and resilience and strong national character.
To all those who may have been led astray by your verbal dishonesty, let us be clear, it is not 'small'. Merely 'efficient and direct'. Use of the former language will be treated as sedition from.this moment on and rewarded with ten years in the Labour camps or ten years attached to a fellblade which should teach you right, komrade.
^takes of ushanka hat and drops fake Russian accent^ have a nice day komrades!
Deadnight wrote: I've reported you to the greylords for unpatriotic behaviour.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alright y'all, looks like there's a N&R WM thread again, so I'll leave off dredging this one back up with new releases. Catch you back up at the top!
Yikes. I know I've been out of things for a while (so this may have been more gradual than it feels), but that really feels like balling up the lore and tossing it out. Seriously 'rocks fall, everyone dies' for the Retribution, in favor of sad vampire fanfics.
Greylords as functionally traitors is a bit too on-the-nose as well. Ruthlessly pragmatic, sure. But that implies a pretty complete purge of all but the most nobly loyal chosen ones.
A lot of this was pulling the trigger on the setup that felt like it would never go anywhere and made the fluff feel stagnant in MK2. What happens if the last elf god dies was a big question. The big surprise was we got an answer.
I mean... I get it. Its a bit like nuking the old world combined with primaris but pp had to do somethimg.
One of my big disappointments in mk3 was how everything just... reset. They closed so many good storylines and then rested on their laurels.
Honestly the mk4 changes should have been done in mk3.
Khador is going to look very different I think anf it'll be interesting to see how and if cryx and the protectorate get a look in (I know thr latter was decimated in the lore by the grymkin and infernals) so we shall see. I think vampire elves will be a very interesting concept to see how it looks.
Yeah, bringing an end to the Cygnar/Khador war with Khador claiming Llael after the two worked together with Menoth to drive Cryx off the continent took forever to get to the point, but left things in an interesting place. Then mk3 started and Cygnar attacked Khador to reclaim Llael and I effectively lost track of who was doing what for the majority of mk3.
Part of that is definitely that they just didn't have a good fluff delivery system. Skull Island Expeditions started dumping too much content, with a lot of it being both irrelevant to the ongoing story and not very good. There were definitely exceptions; the Butcher book is irrelevant and quite good and the books that WERE relevant aren't bad, just very hard to parse out. A lot of it fell to popular characters which kind of shifted all the fluff towards a Cygnar niche when Cygnar was at a rather uninteresting place.
The faction books had zero appeal for players outside of that faction, No Quarter was set up like faction books that meant you were only interested in specific issues and when the fluff shifted to the leagues I don't think anyone realized it was worth following. I'm glad Twitter somehow worked to tell the actual apocalypse (there's something poetic about that....) and probably showed how the setting thrives with a bit more Saturday morning action writing than the low energy intrigue that dominated mk2.
Boss Salvage wrote: I didn't miss a thread in N&R, right? Far as I can tell nobody is reporting new WMH stuff here any more, but there's been some previews of Cygnar hyper-tech stuff:
Gun to my head, I would have guessed these were for a Warcaster crossover game / setting, but maybe this style is just where the design studio is at these days. Anyway you can read more about their WMH abilities in those links if you like, plus bigger pics.
the 80mm Khador model -- that's an official leak / preview?
LunarSol wrote: The Zephyr is the 80 mm Cygnar model. Khador is getting a tank.
Well, an armored Segway with guns strapped on and the driver stands with torso and head exposed like a fool.
The driver is also presumably quite deaf with a feth-off cannon beside each ear, and no range of vision (other than exactly forward) beyond climbing a bit onto the armored cowling to try to peer past the guns.
LunarSol wrote: The Zephyr is the 80 mm Cygnar model. Khador is getting a tank.
Well, an armored Segway with guns strapped on and the driver stands with torso and head exposed like a fool.
The driver is also presumably quite deaf with a feth-off cannon beside each ear, and no range of vision (other than exactly forward) beyond climbing a bit onto the armored cowling to try to peer past the guns.
LunarSol wrote: The Zephyr is the 80 mm Cygnar model. Khador is getting a tank.
Well, an armored Segway with guns strapped on and the driver stands with torso and head exposed like a fool.
The driver is also presumably quite deaf with a feth-off cannon beside each ear, and no range of vision (other than exactly forward) beyond climbing a bit onto the armored cowling to try to peer past the guns.
Sorry, Khador is getting a Khadoran tank.
'Tread softly, for you tread on my dreams' wrote the lovestruck khadoran tank-driving poet.
Not as bad as the two khadoran fish in a tank. 'How do you drive this thing'. They were floundering.
chaos0xomega wrote: There are - you can get better prints by cutting up parts of a model and reorienting print angles, etc. Just because you can print it in one solid piece doesn't necessarily mean you should.
True, but you can get away with fewer parts when printing since you aren't as constrained by molding limitations, such as undercuts, etc.
You'd be surprised by how much you need to cut up a model to get optimal surfaces and prints, minimizing the distortion and impact that the supports have on the model. Any side where supports must be placed, even on the most well calibrated printers, will have less detail, or warped details. Then, some surfaces need specific angles on the model to lessen the layer lines visible on the surface.
3D printing does allow a lot more freedom in other ways though. Fewer size restrictions, undercuts, complex twists, no mold lines, etc.
Interesting snippet on the lore as they have replied the small 'specialist' units old khador relied on. Seems like iron fangs and kommandos might be away!
A while ago I converted some cygnaran trencher long gunners into pseudo khadorans by giving them ushanka hats. Guess they can also stand in as my winter korps troops.
Also, am I the obly ones that finds 'Boris yuk' somewhat amusing, considering the state of the UK at the moment? I do love the model though and the rules are interesting
Winter Korps Infantry, Light Infantry Unit (two troopers with heavy weapons not shown)
Here's hoping for a 'Winter korps cavalry' (based on cossacks?) option down thr line. Always loved my steelhead cavalry, would love a winter guard/korps equivalent.
Agreed! I never really got involved with mk3 for all the typical.reaaons but the 'relaunch' models are fabulous and I'm seeiously tempted to get involved again, for the models if not for anything else.
Wishlists is winter korps cavalry, revamped assault kommandos and let me keep my iron fangs please and thank you.
Over lockdown I bought about 50 odd retribution houseguard models (archers, halberdiers and riflemen) and I'm genuinely hoping the elven house kalyss revamp (not apologising for the pun, even if it's a bit eld-rich of me :p) faction will let me use these in some form as well.
Your ability to use them will depend on your local community. In Mk3 PP had a very strict WYSIWYG no proxy policy, which my local/regional community (northeast USA) for the most part very strictly interpreted and enforced up until the pandemic era when stock availability became a problem and people were forced to proxy due to an inability to buy models. Before that though, if you were trying to counts-as/proxy your minis, you mostly weren't going to manage to get a pick-up game in with anyone other than your close friends who were willing to put up with it only for playtesting purposes.
I would hope communities learn to be more accepting of conversions and proxies going forward. I know I'll be pushing more reasonable implementations locally. The Unlimited situation is just going to demand a little more chill.
Wishlists is winter korps cavalry, revamped assault kommandos and let me keep my iron fangs please and thank you.
The new Winter Korps Shocktroopers are probably the new Assault Kommandos. Their armor looks a little more Iron Fang inspired though.
Iron Fangs will be an Unlimited army I would assume. Man O War seems to be Khador's second army for the Prime format. I'd not expect Iron Fangs to get rules for a while regardless. I think they've long been very high on the chopping block for Khador.
chaos0xomega wrote:Your ability to use them will depend on your local community. In Mk3 PP had a very strict WYSIWYG no proxy policy, which my local/regional community (northeast USA) for the most part very strictly interpreted and enforced up until the pandemic era when stock availability became a problem and people were forced to proxy due to an inability to buy models.
They'll need to loosen up. Ultra-dogmatic adherence doesn't do anyone any favours. Crap like that is why a lot of people walked away and why the pp community gets such a terrible reputation.
There's a spectrum though. 'This coke can is a juggernaut' rightly shouldn't fly, but honestly if someone drops winter guard riflemen and called them 'winter korps infantry', not only are they pp models, but they are plate armoured wearing riflemen with greatcoats. Imo perfectly suitable stand in
chaos0xomega wrote:. Before that though, if you were trying to counts-as/proxy your minis, you mostly weren't going to manage to get a pick-up game in with anyone other than your close friends who were willing to put up with it only for playtesting purposes.
Thankfully the community here in scotland/uk was a bit more open minded and the local players are pretty sound. I never had issues fielding any of my converted units. Talking about 'putting up with' syitable conversions (I'm assuming it's not your personal.take but your experience) strikes me as more than a little bit condescending and elitist.
LunarSol wrote:I would hope communities learn to be more accepting of conversions and proxies going forward. I know I'll be pushing more reasonable implementations locally. The Unlimited situation is just going to demand a little more chill.
My thoughts exactly.
LunarSol wrote:
The new Winter Korps Shocktroopers are probably the new Assault Kommandos. Their armor looks a little more Iron Fang inspired though.
Iron Fangs will be an Unlimited army I would assume. Man O War seems to be Khador's second army for the Prime format. I'd not expect Iron Fangs to get rules for a while regardless. I think they've long been very high on the chopping block for Khador.
I've not seen anything on shocktroopers - I'm interested, haha! Loved kommandos, but yeah pp painted themselves into.a corner- they had no real niche. I'd love to see them reimagined.
What makes you say iron fangs are high on the chopping block though? Imo they're an incredibly iconic khadoran unit and it would be a shame to 'legacy' them. And I'm repainting about thirty of mine atm - not specifically for wmh and they're still.great models. I do agree with you though that men o war seem.an obvious choice for the next army.
We know each faction is getting two legacy armies in prime, supposedly based around the most "iconic" and cohesive themes availabe to that faction. For khador we know one of them is going to be Armored Korps/Man-O-Wars.
Beyond that everything is conjecture, if I were to guess its going to be between Iron Fangs and Winter Guard - I feel like the Winter Korps army should preclude Winter Guard from being made playable in Prime because they are overall too similar, but Iron Fangs don't have quite as much support and unit options as Winter Guard does.
Beyond that everything is conjecture, if I were to guess its going to be between Iron Fangs and Winter Guard - I feel like the Winter Korps army should preclude Winter Guard from being made playable in Prime because they are overall too similar, but Iron Fangs don't have quite as much support and unit options as Winter Guard does.
Yeah, Winter Guard has a lot more choices than IFP do, but I can't really see them putting two armies of one faction in Prime that are completely the same aesthetically. The IFP are iconic/thematic/self-contained enough that I could see them working- they have as many choices as Banes do for Cryx, after all, so that's what I would have guessed for the second Prime army.
I wasn't sure if it was 2 legacy armies or 2 armies period. I was mentally in the mindset that the "new" Cygnar and Khador were going to fill in as one of their options. If not things open up a bit. I do expect Greylord/Doom Reavers to fill in as Khador's cadre FWIW. Don't get me wrong though, I'd love to have a use for the 30ish Pikemen I just painted.
I wish they'd give us a preview cadre- I'm very curious how these will end up looking. Can we take multiple cadres? How many options will be in each cadre? Should we expect very low FA in order to preserve the 'army identity' or whatever?
I've not seen anything on shocktroopers - I'm interested, haha! Loved kommandos, but yeah pp painted themselves into.a corner- they had no real niche. I'd love to see them reimagined.
The name comes from the recent solicitation of the Khador starter box:
Spoiler:
Also we're getting some kind of Arkanist unit we haven't really seen.
I suspect the Shocktroopers look like the guy at the front center of the new artwork for the army box shown in the video:
LunarSol wrote: I wasn't sure if it was 2 legacy armies or 2 armies period. I was mentally in the mindset that the "new" Cygnar and Khador were going to fill in as one of their options. If not things open up a bit. I do expect Greylord/Doom Reavers to fill in as Khador's cadre FWIW. Don't get me wrong though, I'd love to have a use for the 30ish Pikemen I just painted.
No, its two legacy armies and an indeterminate number of new armies per faction. I would not be surprised for a Greylord cadre in the future, Doom Reavers I am a bit less certain about.
Asmoridin wrote: I wish they'd give us a preview cadre- I'm very curious how these will end up looking. Can we take multiple cadres? How many options will be in each cadre? Should we expect very low FA in order to preserve the 'army identity' or whatever?
I would reference Warcaster for an idea of what Cadres look like. It appears they will have variable contents but average out to 8-11 models each.
I feel like that comparison might be a bit off, cadres in Warcaster don't feel quite like they fit into the Warmachine army construction rules (unless they plan on giving me free models?). Maybe 8-11 models.... but taking a look at a potential Greylord Cadre, for instance, am I going to be pulling in three Greylord Ternion units? If there's a separate Doom Reaver cadre, can I also pull in Doom Reavers?
I just want to see one, simplify a lot of these questions.
My understanding is that the legacy armies weren't getting cadres, so you might be asking the wrong questions? None of the Mk4 boxes previewed thus far provide FA of any of the units contained in them, so I dont know why you would expect a cadre box to provide you FA of whatever the Mk4 equivalent of a Greylord unit is.
chaos0xomega wrote: I would not be surprised for a Greylord cadre in the future, Doom Reavers I am a bit less certain about.
Even before they got combined into a theme for Mk3, Grey Lords have long been the masters holding the Doom Reavers on a leash. They've always been suited well to that "mercenary" kind of place in army design, despite being incredibly fun to spam. I expect the Greylords to be the cadre option, with Doom Reavers as part of that set of options.
I don't think cadres look to be anything remotely similar to the same design as Warcaster's version. They seem far more in line with mercenary design space.
I don't think cadres look to be anything remotely similar to the same design as Warcaster's version. They seem far more in line with mercenary design space.
That's how I'm viewing them, too. Maybe, hey, Doom Reavers, Butcher4, Greylord Ternion, Greylord Outriders, Greylord Forge Seer, Fenris.... that seems like a pretty large variety for a cadre.
Again, seeing one will give a lot of information as to what to expect from all of them.
My guess is they'll be all new box sets and unlikely to be made of legacy models, but I also think they're a future design element that probably hasn't been finalized as much as its been a future plan.
Yeah, I bet you're right. I'd like to think there would be a legacy cadre for each legacy faction (to work with their armies), but it may just be that the first cadres will only be for the new stuff.
chaos0xomega wrote: I would not be surprised for a Greylord cadre in the future, Doom Reavers I am a bit less certain about.
Even before they got combined into a theme for Mk3, Grey Lords have long been the masters holding the Doom Reavers on a leash. They've always been suited well to that "mercenary" kind of place in army design, despite being incredibly fun to spam. I expect the Greylords to be the cadre option, with Doom Reavers as part of that set of options.
I don't think cadres look to be anything remotely similar to the same design as Warcaster's version. They seem far more in line with mercenary design space.
The one hint of what Warmachine Cadres might look like was "Stormsmiths" (implication being that these are new Mk4 Stormsmith models, rather than existing Stormsmith models), and an explanation that they will tend to be "specialists" and support units built around strong central themes rather than something to build the core of an army around. Greylords fit that pretty well, I think, but Doom Reavers stretch that as they are not visually cohesive and thematically consistent with Greylords, in the same way that Man O Wars are not visually cohesive and thematically consistent with Winter Guard.
That's how I'm viewing them, too. Maybe, hey, Doom Reavers, Butcher4, Greylord Ternion, Greylord Outriders, Greylord Forge Seer, Fenris.... that seems like a pretty large variety for a cadre.
It seems unlikely cadres will include warcasters based on the details we have been given. Greylord Forge Seers will likely fall under the Man O War theme. Again though - they haven't been clear that Legacy armies will have cadres at all so basing your idea of what a cadre will look like around the existence of Mk3 models might not be helpful.
It seems unlikely cadres will include warcasters based on the details we have been given. Greylord Forge Seers will likely fall under the Man O War theme. Again though - they haven't been clear that Legacy armies will have cadres at all so basing your idea of what a cadre will look like around the existence of Mk3 models might not be helpful.
Yeah, I wouldn't expect any warcasters (Butcher4 is a solo in my example).
I think you're right about the Forge Seer though, I could see him in the MoW army.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Again though - they haven't been clear that Legacy armies will have cadres at all so basing your idea of what a cadre will look like around the existence of Mk3 models might not be helpful.
"The larger Faction armies are based on the primary themes running through each Faction but are not based on the Mk III theme forces. These Factions include Circle, Cryx, Cygnar, Khador, Legion, Protectorate, Retribution, Skorne, and Trollbloods. These larger Factions also share small cadres of models and units that are shared between their armies."
I interpret that as the legacy armies having cadres (given the topic of the article), but I suppose it isn't 100% spelled out.
Right, I forgot about him being a solo. Also its less clear what the future holds for Riot Quest minis (like Butcher4) in the game. PP hasn't said much about it other than that they would definitely be playable in "Unlimited".
Locally, we are expecting Archons and Riot Quest minis not to make the transition into Prime, even if they fallThat's how I'm viewing them, too. Maybe, hey, Doom Reavers, Butcher4, Greylord Ternion, Greylord Outapparently riders, Greylord Forge Seer, Fenris.... that seems like a pretty large variety for a cadre. within th concept of a theme (no Bulkhead in "Man O War Army" for example) - some of our guys are well-connected and have inside info, but I don't know. What I'm hearing now about Archons and RQ is coming from some of the same people so I'm inclined to believe it. or where they get their info from, etc. (I heard lots of rumors about mk4 earlier this year, all of which turned out to be true, but I thought it was all bs so didn't think much of it), but
"The larger Faction armies are based on the primary themes running through each Faction but are not based on the Mk III theme forces. These Factions include Circle, Cryx, Cygnar, Khador, Legion, Protectorate, Retribution, Skorne, and Trollbloods. These larger Factions also share small cadres of models and units that are shared between their armies."
I interpret that as the legacy armies having cadres (given the topic of the article), but I suppose it isn't 100% spelled out.
Yeah, I'm a bit ambivalent about that, as "Khador" is a faction that includes these legacy armies, but also includes the Mk4 Winter Korps. We have been straight up told by PP staff on discord and socials that you will not be able to use Mk3 and Mk4 models together in the same army lists and that there are no Mk4 cadres which will work with the legacy armies in prime - so I know they aren't talking about *new* Mk4 cadres being usable with the legacy armies. To my knowledge nobody has made any definitive statement as to whether there will be Mk3 cadres used only by Mk3 legacy armies.
Yeah, can't say I'd miss the Archons (except maybe for Grymkin). Nor the RQ minis (except the warcasters/warlocks, and Rhul, who probably want the three they have to stick around.)
Whatever they end up deciding will be the way it is, and I'll end up playing regardless, haha.
The one hint of what Warmachine Cadres might look like was "Stormsmiths" (implication being that these are new Mk4 Stormsmith models, rather than existing Stormsmith models), and an explanation that they will tend to be "specialists" and support units built around strong central themes rather than something to build the core of an army around. Greylords fit that pretty well, I think, but Doom Reavers stretch that as they are not visually cohesive and thematically consistent with Greylords, in the same way that Man O Wars are not visually cohesive and thematically consistent with Winter Guard.
Greylords and Doom Reavers both share the screaming face Orgoth relics across their design. The Doom Reaver attachment is a Greylord wizard even and he's from Mk2.
I stand by my statement. The screaming face motif is minor and something that most people will miss or otherwise not notice. Likewise the Greylord Escort is irrelevant - not every Mk3 model will be ported, even if it was part of a theme force or has the relevant keywords. More to the point Koldun Kapitan Valachev is also a Greylord (as are Zerkova and Karchev, technically) and an attachment for mercenary infantry units, would you then expect this cadre to include Valachev and the ability to ally in a merc unit?
IF (emphasis on the if) there was a Mk3 Greylord cadre, then that cadre might simply be Greylord Ternion, Greylord Outriders, and Koldun Lords and it need not be anything more than that.
I mean... Zerkova2 comes with her Doom Cabana Boys, so... I still consider them having a lot of overlap. Given its literally one unit (and a Dragoon) that only has a large presence in the faction because players latches on to FA:U with them, I think they're as much a part of the Greylords as any of the ice wizards.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Khador starter contents. Shocktroopers are concept art:
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Weird they duplicated the standard sculpt and nothing else. Particularly since we've seen a second standard bearer render
Yesterdays Primecast kinda hinted at what the cadres were going to be - wasn't clear on if it was only for the legacy armies or if the guidelines would also apply to the new Mk4 armies (they did confirm however that legacy cadres will not be usable by mk4 armies and vice versa however, so no mixing) - but they said they would generally each include 5 models, 1 is "always" a gargantuan or colossal (at least for those that have multiple if I understood correctly?), 1 is a battle engine (wasn't clear if this is also an "always" situation), the other 3 will be support models that go into most lists (listing the choir as an example, except the choir is a unit rather than a model, so maybe they really meant "model/unit" rather than "model").
In other words, you are probably not getting a doom reaver cadre. A likely khador cadre would be either Victor or(?) Conquest, either a Gun Carriage, Siege Chariot, or Assault Chariot, greylord ternion, a koldun lord, and I would guess greylord outriders. As Khador has two colossals, I would assume they will have a second cadre with the colossal that wasn't selected in the Greylord cadre, one of the Battle Engines that wasn't selected for the other cadre, and I'm going to guess Widowmaker Scouts, Widowmaker Marksmen, and a Manhunter (as I don't qualify Iron Fangs, Doom Reavers, or Kayazay as being "support" - which would be the only other "themes" I can think of that could potentially fill out a cadre, though they would have to rely on named characters to do so with the exception of the Iron Fangs).
Khador is a bit of an odd one as there's generally very few support models in general. Of the Greylords though I'd expect the Adjunct to make the list. Doubtful on the Outriders, tbh; they are awfully niche to be the kind of generic they were talking about.
Yeah, I think traditionally most of Khadors "support" models came from taking mercs so there aren't good fits for them. Thats why I'm thinking Widowmakers + Manhunter as a second cadre, as the Widowmakers + Manhunter were basically offensive support by way of spot removal against high def targets and doing the whole precision strike thing.
There's some mercenary previews on Twitter. So far it looks like Eillish, Alexia returns with the Witchfire and an ex-Doom Reaver character with Felblade in tow.
Plot twist - there definitely won't be a Greylord cadre for Mk4 Khador, because the Greylord covenant has been disbanded.
Interesting implications for the Doom Reavers there too since Doom Reavers were basically selected and controlled by the Greylords. I think the apparent ex-Doom Reaver merc probably hints at the idea that the Doom Reavers wee probably outlawed or whatever too.
chaos0xomega wrote: Plot twist - there definitely won't be a Greylord cadre for Mk4 Khador, because the Greylord covenant has been disbanded.
I'm not 100% if you're hinting at Volkova's background, but here's the blurb in that link:
It was only by the dint of her unquestionable loyalty and willingness to hunt her former compatriots in the service of the empire that Zariyah Volkova escaped the punishments meted out to so many former members of the Greylords Covenant. As a mark of respect for her fierce commitment to the Motherland, Volkova was even allowed to retain her Greylord rank when she was transferred into the Winter Korps. She now serves as one of the few fully trained battle wizards within the Korps, service she relishes with every fiber of her existence.
chaos0xomega wrote: Plot twist - there definitely won't be a Greylord cadre for Mk4 Khador, because the Greylord covenant has been disbanded.
I'm not 100% if you're hinting at Volkova's background, but here's the blurb in that link:
It was only by the dint of her unquestionable loyalty and willingness to hunt her former compatriots in the service of the empire that Zariyah Volkova escaped the punishments meted out to so many former members of the Greylords Covenant. As a mark of respect for her fierce commitment to the Motherland, Volkova was even allowed to retain her Greylord rank when she was transferred into the Winter Korps. She now serves as one of the few fully trained battle wizards within the Korps, service she relishes with every fiber of her existence.
I'm not really hinting, and also more directly referring to what is literally the first sentence of the first paragraph of the article:
Following revelations shared by the Order of Illumination of widespread infernal corruption and treachery throughout the Greylords Covenant, the organization was summarily disbanded by imperial edict in 618 AR, and the majority of its membership was sentenced to prison or death. Those spared such punishment were tasked with rebuilding the arcane assets of the empire. With so many Khadoran citizens blessed with Gift of Magic now either confined or facing imminent execution, Khador’s surviving arcane practitioners sought to create new tools to allow even the uninitiated to work simple arcane formulae. Thus, the Arkanists of the Winter Korps were born.
Khador can't have a Greylord cadre if Greylords don't exist. There is low likelihood for Winter Korps Arkanists as a cadre, because uhh... those are going in the Winter Korps army and thus rationally won't also form a separate cadre of models.
I'm used to folx knowing a LOT more about WMH background then I do, so thought maybe you were referencing something that happened in a prior publication In which case the blurb in that article would have been amazingly timed with your post. Turned out you just ninja'd me on reading the same open tab as you.
I'm liking most of these. alexia and eiryss in particular.
I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when eiryss realised everything the retribution stood for and claimed to be true was a load of rubbish. Girl's got some apologies to make. :p
Primecast 7. Around 1:30 there's a WIP of the Khador Bison tracked artillery unit. I still want to see some Dusk previews before I start spending money, but Khador's stock is definitely rising.
I admit I don't really care for the Khador Bison, but so far everything else Khador has been pretty positive for me, so I'm sure I'll still grab one or two of them.
Digging up pics, please hold. But also here's a new warcaster:
Kommander Valerii Savaryn Warcaster
Possesses Battle Plans.
Can make both melee and ranged attacks in the same activation, and his sword, Headsman, has the Critical Decapitation special rule.
His Checkmate feat says, “Savaryn can use his Battle Plans three times this activation. Additionally, while in Savaryn’s control range, friendly Faction models ignore cover and concealment when making ranged attacks and their weapons gain Blessed and Damage Type: Magical.”
Those are MoW 'Suppressors' and intended to look like exo-armor.
But in other news, the Roks continue to make me happy, I hope buying them doesn't require getting a ton of other stuff at the same time. Not a huge fan of how expansions are being rolled out ...
rayphoton wrote:oooh...those suppressor are pretty....
If i were playing warcaster or infinity instead of warmachine perhaps.
Schmapdi wrote:Don't like those new Man O Wars - way to sleek and futuristic looking - particularly the helmets.
They are changing the entire setting to more scifi and less steam punk. complete turn off for me. the reason i like WM/H was because of the setting. it is the game i chose instead of WHFBs for my fantasy fix. the changes to the game mechanics are just another kick in the teeth.
Personally, I'm really digging the way Khador's been modernized. It's definitely not sci-fi but closer to a dieselpunk look. These guys at 50 mm in the back feel like they'll look great with the Infantry chaff on the table.
Personally, I'm really digging the way Khador's been modernized. It's definitely not sci-fi but closer to a dieselpunk look. These guys at 50 mm in the back feel like they'll look great with the Infantry chaff on the table.
They feel like something out of Dust Tactics to me. Old Man O' War perfectly captured the Khador mindset of "slap more armor on it." A shame because I feel like the rest of the new Khador stuff has been pretty on point.
Personally, I'm really digging the way Khador's been modernized. It's definitely not sci-fi but closer to a dieselpunk look. These guys at 50 mm in the back feel like they'll look great with the Infantry chaff on the table.
They feel like something out of Dust Tactics to me. Old Man O' War perfectly captured the Khador mindset of "slap more armor on it." A shame because I feel like the rest of the new Khador stuff has been pretty on point.
Can't speak about dust tactics (never played) myself, but I much preferred the old models for men o war too. They just felt and looked better. The new heavy sci-fi leaning is a bit if a turn-off for me.
Those Suppressors lack the style and industrial look the old Man O War. I don't like the exo suit style and they don't look like a suit manned by a person who will die in steam!
Orlanth wrote: Has the game had a 50 year timejump from steampunk to beyond dieselpunk?
10 year time jump, but thats plenty of time for cygnar to work on whatever designs nemo left behind and for espionage to get some of that to the other countries
the elves look similar to me, just not the color choices i'd have picked for marketing them, though i look forward to people going full Tron with them
greenskin lynn wrote: the elves look similar to me, just not the color choices i'd have picked for marketing them, though i look forward to people going full Tron with them
It's probably because they are going with a somewhat Undead theme with this House of the Ios.
Dusk definitely looks like existing Ret with a darker paint job and extra blades attached. I don't find the NMM a great fit for Warmachine models in general though. The stuff I've seen locally is a lot more appealing.
They also added rivets to the elf stuff, slightly more in line with the steampunk of the setting but still more arcane tech in nature. The metallic paint jobs aren’t helping though and do continue the fine elven tradition of having bad studio schemes.
i will just stick with my steady/sturdy/assault shock troopers with tough thanks to the officer & irusk II.
I have not gotten in enough games with my bombardiers to figure out how much i love them, but i am enjoying them so far.
Is irusk 2 legal in mkiv? The builds in the new war room just show irusk1?
I'll be honest - he was one of the most brilliantly underrated caster back in mk2. The amount of armies I broke with his feat and players I annoyed with fast mows (tactical supremacy) and doom reavers charging through them/winter guard shooting through them (martial discipline) made me feel like I was playing circle.and no one ever saw it coming
Mad Dogs is easily one of my favorite lists ever. I think that and Warriors of the Old Faith will be the main reasons I make time for some Unlimited games in mk4.
Contents of the Khador expansion box have been previewed for a February release:
Crazy excited we seem to have lost the AD/Prowl looking infantry and instead seem to be getting new Widowmakers with a puppy! As one of the few core elements of the faction I felt were missing outside of the new caster, this pretty well covers it all.
Well i am an Active player of 5th ed 40K (with a few house rules fixes imported from other editions) and i also prefer the core rules from N2 for infinity.
So like that comment of not caring about pikeys, you now double down on your heresy.
^Casts cleansing fire^
*casts artificer of deviation" and watches as your attack harmlessly deflects.
And for the record, Mk2 was the best. :p
But seriously, fair play for having a group
Together to play the game. It's dead here.
I didn't really care for the game during MK I or II but then i was never a tournament/steamroller type player.
We have a group of about a dozen active MK III players that play just about everything except minions & mercenaries. so, we have quite a nice mix of armies.
.menoth-2
.skorne-1
.retribution-2
.cygnar-2
.circle orboros-1
.infernals-1
.cryx-1
.grymkin-1
.legion-1
.crucible guard-1
.trolls-1
.khador-1
.convergence-1
Well i am an Active player of 5th ed 40K (with a few house rules fixes imported from other editions) and i also prefer the core rules from N2 for infinity.
90s necromunda.
I didnt really play 5th as id burned out of 40k at that point. Imo 4th with some tweaks was peak.40k.
I didn't really care for the game during MK I or II but then i was never a tournament/steamroller type player.
Mainly did steamroller but also played a lot with a pretty casual crew. Played plenty casual games and it worked well for it.
Mk1 was... interesting. Mk2 - the game really shone. Yes there were some mistakes and outliers but I thought mk3 ^changed^ rather than ^improved^ the game. Mk2 remix wo6ld have been better but I understand pp were hemorrhaging cash then and needed a new edition to bank.
We have a group of about a dozen active MK III players that play just about everything except minions & mercenaries. so, we have quite a nice mix of armies.
.menoth-2
.skorne-1
.retribution-2
.cygnar-2
.circle orboros-1
.infernals-1
.cryx-1
.grymkin-1
.legion-1
.crucible guard-1
.trolls-1
.khador-1
.convergence-1
A comment on unit movement I have after a few games.
I have played 7 mk4 games so far, including a tournament this weekend. While the most basic movements are indeed quick and easy, once specific conditions arise it becomes bogged down with exceptions and special clauses and these are not hallmarks of elegant rule design. The problems comes from the fact that unit movement treats it mostly as a single entity, but attacks are individual, so there's a list of things that happen when a model is engaged, who it is going to attack, how it interacts with Unstoppable etc that makes the supposedly simple process quite complicated (maybe in SW Legion unit attacks are not individual and there it works as it was intended, but was transplanted only partially without the thought of the consequences?).
Measuring ranges is actually longer and more complicated. A run or charge against a single target is easy, but if you want to stay out of range of a shooting attack or keep your second line safe behind the first line you can't just simply add SPD&RNG like in mk3 - you need to factor in 2" of placing and the base size, which is not in inches but in mm and that makes calculations quite a bit more involved every time. It slowed the dance of staying outside enemy range considerably.
The possibilities this movement offers are going to be very difficult for new players to get the grasp of, and there will be many moments of confusion and disbelief at unintuitive things units can do now. It's as if PP decided to design it with advanced players in mind, those who enjoy pulling off crazy, unituitive shenanigans on unsuspecting opponents. Thought your solo is safe more than 18" away from a SPD7 cavalry unit , 9" away from another model they can actually charge and far behind a corner of a building? Tough luck, they will get him! Can a cavalry model with SPD7 make an attack against an enemy model 30" away from it without any extra buffs? It sure can. See your newbie friends' jaws drop when you tell them these are legitimate maneuvers of a SPD7 unit (and by no means corner case, this will happen often!) and that this is faster and more intuitive than models being able to attack what they can charge in mk3.
Can you play and enjoy a game of Warmachine with these rules? Of course you can! Is it impossible to get your head around all these exceptions and interactions? Absolutely not. But still, as far as clarity and ease of playing are concerned, it is a HUGE step backwards.
The main thing I've noticed is there just isn't much ability to play footsie. Staying out of range isn't really practical and more often than not gets punished. It's better to get in and tie up the opponent than to try and stay out of range.
What I've noticed instead is the game benefits from a lot more terrain than before. Larger forests, more impassible, LOS blocking features. Scatter terrain, trenches, etc. Cover and concealment matter a lot more and are a lot easier to work with. Smaller armies, denser tables has kind of been my mantra for Mk4.
Cyel wrote: I have played 7 mk4 games so far, including a tournament this weekend.
How'd your tournament shake out? I haven't paid attention to any WM4 events now that they're happening, no idea if some factions are already pulling ahead, etc.
It was a tiny one, just 7 people (and six dropped out just before the event, we have an infection season in full swing ). We played 50pts to get to know the new edition. We used the rulebook scenarios because the ones released by PP are broken.
I played 3 games, but really 5 - I won two on turn2 assassinating Siege 2 and Helynna with Scaverous's barrage of 1FOC, boosted to hit Icy Grips and we noted the result, reset the turn it happened and played on as if nothing had happened. Scaverous still managed to swing the attrition battle with his Icy Grips by cutting down swathes of Cygnar infantry in one game and an Infernal heavy and a half in another. I won all (sort of)5 battles and played Scaverous 5 times (but the other two Cryx players, also with Scavvy ended in the last two positions). I guess he's weaker in higher point levels, where his feat's attrition swing is smaller. But the threat of assassination is crazy.
One thing that really stopped me in my tracks was this Helynna list with 3 Manticores. They were fully loaded on FOC every turn thanks to the mechanics and these 15 extra hit points each turn were absolutely crazy to get through! Not to mention their shooting was devastating.
Another painful moment was Trencher Finn killing all 7 Bane Warriors in one unit. With new unit movement there was just nothing I could do to position them safely.
Cyel wrote: One thing that really stopped me in my tracks was this Helynna list with 3 Manticores. They were fully loaded on FOC every turn thanks to the mechanics and these 15 extra hit points each turn were absolutely crazy to get through! Not to mention their shooting was devastating.
Really like that new way of doing shields. The extra base HP might be a little much though. One thing I've noticed is that generally speaking a lot of the support units are seriously vulnerable to AoEs. Definitely need to take them out.
Cyel wrote: It was a tiny one, just 7 people (and six dropped out just before the event, we have an infection season in full swing ). We played 50pts to get to know the new edition. We used the rulebook scenarios because the ones released by PP are broken.
I played 3 games, but really 5 - I won two on turn2 assassinating Siege 2 and Helynna with Scaverous's barrage of 1FOC, boosted to hit Icy Grips and we noted the result, reset the turn it happened and played on as if nothing had happened. Scaverous still managed to swing the attrition battle with his Icy Grips by cutting down swathes of Cygnar infantry in one game and an Infernal heavy and a half in another. I won all (sort of)5 battles and played Scaverous 5 times (but the other two Cryx players, also with Scavvy ended in the last two positions). I guess he's weaker in higher point levels, where his feat's attrition swing is smaller. But the threat of assassination is crazy.
One thing that really stopped me in my tracks was this Helynna list with 3 Manticores. They were fully loaded on FOC every turn thanks to the mechanics and these 15 extra hit points each turn were absolutely crazy to get through! Not to mention their shooting was devastating.
Another painful moment was Trencher Finn killing all 7 Bane Warriors in one unit. With new unit movement there was just nothing I could do to position them safely.
Man...7 Icy grips did THAT much Damage? At dice minus 7 I would think that spell doesn't have a good chance to really mess up a hvy
Well, it's at least 8FOC not counting souls from previous turns (obligatory Power Swell) and rerolls from this turn's souls. Of course, when I went after heavies I started by debuffing ARM with Feast of Worms and running a Bane Warrior in Dark Shroud range first, as I knew DEF 15 is not going to be a big problem (boosted 8's to hit with some rerolls). The opponent thought his heavies were safe outside of the charge range of Banes.
Fantastic models, but I'm very sad that dog is a mark target that's stuck being within 2" of a unit of snipers. Repo helps but still feels like clunky design.
LunarSol wrote: Fantastic models, but I'm very sad that dog is a mark target that's stuck being within 2" of a unit of snipers. Repo helps but still feels like clunky design.
It would be cool if the dog could venture out further.
LunarSol wrote: Fantastic models, but I'm very sad that dog is a mark target that's stuck being within 2" of a unit of snipers. Repo helps but still feels like clunky design.
It would be cool if the dog could venture out further.
I got in several test games over the holidays and I'm surprised to report that the dog is actually kind of good, but exclusively in the context of Mk4 movement rules. Since it has pathfinder and is faster than the unit, it can basically throw them into better positions than normal. Notably, while it doesn't get a shot, it actually generally results in an extra shot at max range because the unit is 2" ahead of him. Repo also means the unit doesn't immediately die to an AoE, which I appreciate.
The Mark Target is actually the least useful thing on the whole card, but slightly better than expected. Since the unit doesn't tend to survive that long but tends to be the thing worth killing, the Dog often gets left alone to Mark for the jacks and such.
No renders on this month's Primecast, but plenty of concept art:
Void Engine Dusk 80mm Solo
... which pops out Void Wights
Most of the WM previews are about character jacks for the coming campaign. These are head + arm packs that upgrade existing jacks, giving them unique weapons and abilities.
chaos0xomega wrote: Note the image of Molok is missing his mace (which looks a lot like Ruin's).
Medveditsa is basically a Kodiak, but cooler looking (disappointed that its not named Grizzly).
Mama Bear is a great name though. Certainly gives her character. Kind of boring compared to the others though.
Makes sense that Molok's mace is similar to Ruin's since they're both Orgoth designs. Molok is definitely more of what people wanted out of the Orgoth design though not being heavy NMM always helps.
So glad the Stryker got Quicksilver. Making it character locked is a big win overall.
New elves seem to be a big design win overall. Locally they've been super popular.
chaos0xomega wrote: Note the image of Molok is missing his mace (which looks a lot like Ruin's).
Ah yes, thanks for that. I think I missed it because it quickly changed slides, but I should go back and grab it.
EDIT: Grabbed the mace before it fades out in the video, plus added the third wight
LunarSol wrote: Molok is definitely more of what people wanted out of the Orgoth design
QFT. Integrating bone and fabric adds the occult eevil vibe I was hoping for.
Kanluwen wrote: Thanks for always grabbing screencaps, Salvage.
NP! This thread makes me keep up to date with what WM is up to, as I'm not actively playing the game and PP's marketing can be a little opaque in my experience when it comes to actual minis.
Speaking of actual minis! The video also has many painted examples of the wave 2 stuff, particularly mercs + Cygnar.
New Primecast+ dropped (here), which has some painted or rendered versions of stuff we've seen:
Dyssus
Tyrus
Israfyl (the 360 spin is a lot better than this still)
But also the first look at the first Hordes faction:
Trollkin Pirates
Admiral Boomhowler Trollkin Pirates Warcaster
Captain Shadowtongue Trollkin Pirates Warcaster
Deepborne Dire Troll Trollkin Pirates Warbeast
Reef Troll Trollkin Pirates Warbeast ^ Different drinks and/or different hats change its animus. There's also a 'green' configuration (head 1 + ale mug) that makes more sense now that I see the alpha / veteran combos.
This also appears as the teaser at the end. My guess is it's the second army for Orgoth
(Not pictured above are some variant models shown at the beginning, including a more classic Orgoth look for Horruskh.)
I'm kind of disappointed in the Trolls to be honest. I was hoping for something a little more Talion but these feel a bit more Scharde to me. The units might bring in a bit more of the drunken silliness I'm looking for, and admittedly Greygore's daughter is exactly what I was hoping for.
Really don't care for the fish head on the Dire Troll. Hoping one of the other options has a bit more of the classic Troll face. Haven't ruled them out yet, but definitely need to see the final sculpts.
No clue on that last teaser. Looks distinctly like Troll spines on the left and its vaguely new Orgoth.... ish, but not really. There's twin dragons, maybe something there? I'm really stumped.
LunarSol wrote: No clue on that last teaser. Looks distinctly like Troll spines on the left and its vaguely new Orgoth.... ish, but not really. There's twin dragons, maybe something there? I'm really stumped.
Ohhhhh maybe it's a starter box? The left and right faces start apart and smash together. It could very well be Trolls vs Orgoth aka pirates vs vikings.
I love the deepborne ... but it does seem weird that they don't present any customization? The sketch looks like it might have swappable fin + head, which tracks with the reef troll's booze + head (but same arms), so may be the plan.
I'm thrilled to see some Hordes anything for WM4, it is most definitely where my heart lies with the game. Not necessarily Trolls but I appreciate them too.
LunarSol wrote: No clue on that last teaser. Looks distinctly like Troll spines on the left and its vaguely new Orgoth.... ish, but not really. There's twin dragons, maybe something there? I'm really stumped.
Ohhhhh maybe it's a starter box? The left and right faces start apart and smash together. It could very well be Trolls vs Orgoth aka pirates vs vikings.
I love the deepborne ... but it does seem weird that they don't present any customization? The sketch looks like it might have swappable fin + head, which tracks with the reef troll's booze + head (but same arms), so may be the plan.
I'm thrilled to see some Hordes anything for WM4, it is most definitely where my heart lies with the game. Not necessarily Trolls but I appreciate them too.
Matt Wilson actually talked about how they work on Primecast (the audio version, not the video Primecast+)
They show the customization in the light Reef Troll warbeast. 3 swappable heads (Alpha, Veteran, Green) and 3 swappable alcohol containers (Ale, Rum, Grog). The heads work like the warjack heads and the liquor determines the animus. There are also apparently 3 options for each hand as well not show here, but that's clearly why they have the ropes to create a break point.
The heavy works similarly. It will have 3 head options, and the spines on the back have two options to determine the animus. Looks like the arms swap at the shoulder and should have 3 sets of left and right arms there as well based on what was said in the podcast.
I love the deepborne ... but it does seem weird that they don't present any customization? The sketch looks like it might have swappable fin + head, which tracks with the reef troll's booze + head (but same arms), so may be the plan.
Im hoping for alternate arms, or at least one that lets it have a big meaty claw.
To everyone's surprise our March tournament enjoyed unusually high attendance of 10 players (better than the second half of mk3). Maybe there's hope with more and more Legacy armies being released, to see a few more returning players (there are people I know who complain that with the new armies and their composition, they just can't play at all, even though they have relatively sizeable collections).
Very cool! We had 14 people come to the club our last tournament. Sadly one had to leave for health reasons and one was very hungover so we had a 12-person tournament with a sleeping spectator
It isn't bad at all compared to the late Mk3 turnout in our quarters either.
AduroT wrote: Thought it was said the Warbeasts weren’t getting weapon options?
Not sure where you heard this. Matt Wilson said the new Warlock lead factions would have modular Warbeasts a while ago.
On a side note, apparently the second Warbeast faction will be called Khymera and will essentially be the Mecha-Legion that we've seen in Riot Quest (and that phenomenal French conversion army PP seems to have been.... inspired by).
Khymera's two armies will be lead by Rhyas and Saeryn, who tried to escape Everblight during the apocalypse but were reduced to Authanc when they touched the Cyriss gate and couldn't cross. They've apparently regrown and started their own force, inspired by the machine life they saw when they touched Cyriss.
...and that phenomenal French conversion army PP seems to have been.... inspired by).
Link by any chance?
This was years ago. I want to say like the 2018 WTC? Someone brought a fully converted clockwork Legion army that got a lot of attention. Looks like there's still some pictures on Pintrist.
Any news and data from the Adepticon tournament? Players, factions (sorry, Armies ), winners etc. Maybe you have your own, personal experience to share ?
Three streamed games from our last, 75pts tournament in Warsaw (I posted a few pictures here a couple of weeks ago). The videos are in English.
Lylyth vs Goreshade
Wolfe vs Zaateroth
Bradigus vs Goreshade
Spoiler:
As it happened two of my games were played on the table with the camera (I am the Cryx, Gorseshade player. I played all three of my games on the day with Goreshade).
Any news on when exactly next batch of Legacy armies is expected to hit the app? I don't have any social media accounts so I'm probably missing a lot from what PP is sharing, and with only Cryx and Trollbloods (and Cygnar Storm Division) I feel a little limited on variety right now.
Cyel wrote: Any news on when exactly next batch of Legacy armies is expected to hit the app? I don't have any social media accounts so I'm probably missing a lot from what PP is sharing, and with only Cryx and Trollbloods (and Cygnar Storm Division) I feel a little limited on variety right now.
They've generally been releasing the last week of each month. Its feeling extra long right now because they broke that trend and released Circle at the beginning of March ahead of schedule.
By the end of April they'll release Cryx Black Fleet and Menoth Flameguard.
Sounds like May is expecting the redundant forces of Cygnar Storm Knights and Khador Winter Guard.
Why redundant? Do people mostly use the old Storm Knight models to play new Storm Legion?
Tbh, I was also considering this, but old warjacks don't proxy the new ones as neatly and WYSIWYG-aptly as warrior models do. As a result I am happy to hear they are not going to be shelved indefinitely.
Cyel wrote: Why redundant? Do people mostly use the old Storm Knight models to play new Storm Legion?
Tbh, I was also considering this, but old warjacks don't proxy the new ones as neatly and WYSIWYG-aptly as warrior models do. As a result I am happy to hear they are not going to be shelved indefinitely.
Just thematic redundancy. I'd have preferred if I'm only getting 2 old themes brought forward that Khador get Greylords or Iron Fangs and Cygnar get probably the Marrow stuff rather than themes that are being resculpted for Mk4.
Overread wrote: Everblight is going undersea and getting eyes?!
They do look very cool
The squidface is the new Troll pirate character beast.
The dragonkin are the new Khymaera faction. Rhyas and Saeryn finally broke free of Everblight and started their own armies, with blackjack and eyeballs.
I'm kind of on the fence about the Troll pirates. They are totally my thing except the heavy being a giant crab. Not sure why, but that just doesn't click with what I love about Dire Trolls.
Is there much known on the other prime models being expanded? I've checked the app but still only 1/5th of my trollblood collection is on the app/ 4th compatible :(
Gir Spirit Bane wrote: Is there much known on the other prime models being expanded? I've checked the app but still only 1/5th of my trollblood collection is on the app/ 4th compatible :(
I believe last estimates were to have all the Prime armies available by the end of August. For Trollbloods, the second army is looking to be called the United Kriels so its not totally clear what is going to be in Prime and what will get regulated to Unlimited. I'd wager most likely we'll see the ranged units mostly but I suspect there's a lot of stuff like Fennblades that are going to be left out.
nuTroll initial rules are posted. Definitely some fun stuff and lots of ways to change up the base statline. Not sure its enough to pick up when I think I prefer my polar bear versions, but they look fun.
An honest question, how do you deal with these 21"threat range, 13"long sprays of nuCygnar, that under Athena's feat and other buffs shred your front line, middle line and back line at the same time, unless you can put your entire army behind a big obstrucion and stay there whole game?
Cyel wrote: An honest question, how do you deal with these 21"threat range, 13"long sprays of nuCygnar, that under Athena's feat and other buffs shred your front line, middle line and back line at the same time, unless you can put your entire army behind a big obstrucion and stay there whole game?
Empirical examples, please
Cygnar is SO dumb this edition, but generally speaking the answer has been more jacks and more terrain. Honestly the main reason I'm enjoying the edition is for the ability to play on near Malifaux looking boards.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Pirate Trolls preview box is up for preorder!
I continue to be quietly sticker shocked by the prices myself, even ignoring that these are 3D prints. $80 for the 3 model troll battlegroup? Ouch. You'd think they'd run these as $50 loss leaders* or something.
*Knowing full well that they cost far less than $50 to print or package.
Thing is once you start adding in taxes, man hours, actually having a wage that isn't bottom of the minimum wage scale (or below it) and a host of other things there isn't all that much room for 3D printing to actually make things super cheap for a company.
The operational startup costs are lower; but you're not actually much of a revolution over other production methods.
Again what we pay for is more than just raw materials and manufacture time for the machine. There's the company, the employees and the wages that make people do this over any other job.
That said I do agree PP does end up very pricey in the market and it doesn't help that some of their moves to try and keep their SKU down have resulted in some very expensive boxed sets for them. Boxed sets that would be fine if the game were blazing away, but which are missplaced I feel when their numbers are lagging. What they need are cheap entry sets to really get people into their games; then those high priced sets work.
That said I do agree PP does end up very pricey in the market and it doesn't help that some of their moves to try and keep their SKU down have resulted in some very expensive boxed sets for them.
its defo a huge blocker when added to everything else. Per model PP is quite expensive when compared to other low to mid tier games (in terms of popularity/player numbers) like Malifaux, Infinity, Moonstone etc so not only is it expensive its also got a bad reputation and image. People are very happy to pay big bucks for small models but not from a company like PP. And stores are not prepared to give shelf space over to it as it just wont shift.
"THAT cost for THAT game from THAT dead company....... lol no thanks mate" - a conversation I have had several times since Mk4 launch.
The big thing to realize is that there's really a lot more than 3 models worth of model in those sets. Each jack comes with several models worth of parts. It's a good amount of stuff and I'm glad that the rules actually really benefit from the options in this edition.
That said, I do agree that the cost of resin has been a huge issue for PP in general. The cost itself is pretty on par with other resin lines and personally I find their quality to be among the best I've worked with, but a lot of those other games are just 5-10 models. It creates a significant barrier when your game requires something more along the lines of 20-40 models.
I really, really wish they had made a decent small point steamroller to keep the game small in the relaunch. To me the real killer of mk4 is going to be jumping right back to 100 points when it plays so much better at 50/75 and more importantly, has a more reasonable army cost.
Events should stay at 100pts if people are playing.
What they need to do is just what GW have done - create a new format under its own name for marketing that focuses on a smaller number of models on the table.
Killteam has been part of 40K for ages, but it wasn't till GW marketed it as its own thing that it really got off the ground as a game format.
It's a really smart move by GW because it creates the "entry level" smaller number of models game as a format for new and old people alike. Which in turn means newbies know where they can get started and also generates games for them from established people.
It's not just a "stop gap" that you play whilst waiting to get to 40K; its a whole game unto itself. Yes the "risk" is some people will get that 1 box of models and never move beyond; but honestly that kind of person was going to do that with 40K; however the difference is now thye are at least playing; engaging and there's always a chance of them moving up. Plus they are providing games and engagement for those who are going to eventually move toward also playing the bigger games.
Was at a wargames convention/ trade show at the weekend and for the first time in years, saw whm stuff at the 'bring and buy'.
Missed out on some trenchers but got 10 winter guard riflemen, a berzerker jack and a classic cygnar starter for £15. Got some minicrate too. Guys just wanted them shifted.
Also bumped into a few friends I used to play with back then. Plus the guys selling stuff. Of all of them, none were currently playing. One had bought a new cryx army before news of mk4 dropped and its worthless. None were really interested in mk4 at all. Even my own purchases are for not-warmachine and are intended to be system agnostic going forward. Still need some trenchers though!
JEsus, I am a huge trollblood fan but $80 for 3 models and they look a bit too.... Well a bit much and overly busy. I like the warlock but somehow the warbeasts (the reason I got into trollbloods) just don't look that great to me compared to the older models.
Gir Spirit Bane wrote: JEsus, I am a huge trollblood fan but $80 for 3 models and they look a bit too.... Well a bit much and overly busy. I like the warlock but somehow the warbeasts (the reason I got into trollbloods) just don't look that great to me compared to the older models.
Yeah, I'm not fond of the dire troll myself, but I'm also just not a huge fan of crab aesthetics in general. I will say though that $80 for 3 Trollblood models is really nothing new. They've always been large and expensive. Mulg was $60 a decade ago and tiny compared to some of the newer Dire Trolls. I am passing on this one though, mostly just because if I want to play Trolls I prefer the Northkin aesthetic.
LunarSol wrote: Mulg was $60 a decade ago and tiny compared to some of the newer Dire Trolls.
But lets be real. Quite a lot of people got theirs from ebay/2nd hand
That's fine, but comparing the prices you get from eBay that you specifically use to get something cheaper to the MSRP is kind of apples to oranges. People can get these from eBay someday as well.
In which case the blurb in that article would have been amazingly timed with your post. Turned out you just ninja'd me on reading the same open tab as you.
