It just seems crazy that their most supported way of playing has been sold out for over a month. How do they expect people to play it and go to tournemants f they don't sell it?

Yep, by the time they send the order get it made the next book will already be needing to go to print. With the shipping problems right now as well it'll only be in our hands for a month before the announcement of the next one, would be a waste for them.

Really it needs to be less often for missions, and the other updates should be free via digital updates, which is what everyone wants and GW misinterpreted that to mean more CA's.....

Well if the game is in a good place (as many seem to think it is) maybe just extend Nephelim another six months and throw in another balance slate / points adjustment for free?

"But, money?" - GW.

Zarkro wrote:
Well if the game is in a good place (as many seem to think it is) maybe just extend Nephelim another six months and throw in another balance slate / points adjustment for free?

That's not how this works. They've committed to this weird 'seasons' model for at least a bit. Churn and new books to sell is the point.

Would be nice if people actualy could get their hands on the books though. Specialy when it is not an optional thing to use. A version limited CA is a very bad idea,.

Removed - rule #1 please.

Didn’t everyone’s play groups universally reject Nephilim anyway?

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Didn’t everyone’s play groups universally reject Nephilim anyway?

We decided to can all the warzone rules recently since we only play tempest of war anyway.

Karol wrote:
Would be nice if people actualy could get their hands on the books though. Specialy when it is not an optional thing to use. A version limited CA is a very bad idea,.

its totally optional tho.


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 JohnnyHell wrote:
Didn’t everyone’s play groups universally reject Nephilim anyway?

yeah, my store completely dropped the GT packs, we now do fun custom missions or play tempest of war

Me - "I want to get into competitive play again. Oh my FLGS has monthly tournaments? Perfect! What are the requirements? Physical copies of the rules? Ok, let me grab the chapter approved."

So I paint 3/4 of my army, go to signup for a tournament, but now we're on the new chapter approved when I didn't get to play a single event with the last one. The best part is I can't even buy the new CA because it's permanently OOS. So now I can just sit around painting for 6 months trying to finish my army, at which point we'll have another chapter approved and probably a whole new SM codex invalidating everything I bought and started painting during Nachmund.

This is why constant rules churn is stupid in a tabletop game where it takes 6 months to get an army ready. It works for games like Dota or Overwatch where you literally just click a different spot on the screen and you're playing the new meta hero.

I think I'm going to play 30k and AoS where you have a lot less churn in rules and which models are useful. My building/painting schedule is not enough to keep up with a game that rotates every 3-6 months between what's good and what's useless. If the game had decent balance, I could just collect the army I like and play what I want. However, when the game is balanced by drunken, blindfolded monkeys throwing darts at a dart board full of random point values, that's not feasible either.

At least the FOMO for the next season's book "War Zone Kasssh'Graab" will be off the charts.

EightFoldPath wrote:
At least the FOMO for the next season's book "War Zone Kasssh'Graab" will be off the charts.

After paying for one that I never got to use because it was invalidated in 4.5 months, and trying to buy the second one that went OOS instantly and permanently, there won't be any FOMO here.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Didn’t everyone’s play groups universally reject Nephilim anyway?

Considering the book sold out....probably not?

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

its totally optional tho.

As is eating, drinking and breathing. But it is hard to play the game called Life without them.

I actually think seasons are a good idea... But only if all the dexes are out.

Season (Campaign books) would be an acceptable way to maintain a persistent edition in a post codex game-state. In that context? Great idea!

In any other context? A waste of production and shipping resources better applied to the codex release schedule.

Karol wrote:
As is eating, drinking and breathing. But it is hard to play the game called Life without them.

Despite what the Max Maxian world you live in may make you think, 40k is not life, and Nephelim is not one of life's (or the game's) requirements.

Toofast wrote:
I think I'm going to play 30k and AoS where you have a lot less churn in rules and which models are useful.

Buddy, AoS has the same rules churn 40k does - they get a grand tournament mission pack every 6 months, and like 40k its divided up into seasons based on different locations in the mortal realms.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Toofast wrote:
I think I'm going to play 30k and AoS where you have a lot less churn in rules and which models are useful.

Buddy, AoS has the same rules churn 40k does - they get a grand tournament mission pack every 6 months, and like 40k its divided up into seasons based on different locations in the mortal realms.

At least the book feels more worth it lol, spiral bind, quick references, book mark, large map, etc.... The CA book for the same price feels so bad.

Karol wrote:
Would be nice if people actualy could get their hands on the books though. Specialy when it is not an optional thing to use. A version limited CA is a very bad idea,.

It's entirely optional. You don't HAVE to use it. Were not using it in our local (matched play) escalation league. We voted on it & it was soundly rejected.
And it doesn't apply to Crusade etc.

Now if your only 40k experience is tourney play.... We'll then your screwed. But then you've signed up for that.


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chaos0xomega wrote:

Toofast wrote:
I think I'm going to play 30k and AoS where you have a lot less churn in rules and which models are useful.

Buddy, AoS has the same rules churn 40k does - they get a grand tournament mission pack every 6 months, and like 40k its divided up into seasons based on different locations in the mortal realms.

And guess what? They are just as optional.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Didn’t everyone’s play groups universally reject Nephilim anyway?

Considering the book sold out....probably not?

It probably sold out because they made a way smaller print run after Nachmund sat on shelves at every Warhammer and FLGS in the country. Classic GW, overshoot on the first run and then don't make nearly enough the next time around because they don't want to sit on any stock at all.


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 Amishprn86 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Toofast wrote:
I think I'm going to play 30k and AoS where you have a lot less churn in rules and which models are useful.

Buddy, AoS has the same rules churn 40k does - they get a grand tournament mission pack every 6 months, and like 40k its divided up into seasons based on different locations in the mortal realms.

At least the book feels more worth it lol, spiral bind, quick references, book mark, large map, etc.... The CA book for the same price feels so bad.

It's also the only book you have to buy because almost everything else is free on the app. There aren't 700 stratagems to remember. No army has ever had their rules spread over 7 different books like Tyranids were recently. When I play local tournaments for 40k, I need the BRB, codex, supplement, and chapter approved, along with 2 sets of datacards to try and remember the strats. For AoS events, I just need the generals handbook and my phone.

 oni wrote:
I can't help but laugh. The whole 'seasons' is such a piss-poor idea. Nothing more than thinly veiled DLC garbage.

Literally everything that GW has done to pander to the competitive tourney-gakkers has gone badly. And rightfully so. They're a fething cancer.

The good part is that tournament rules are truly 100% optional now.


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DeadliestIdiot wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Didn’t everyone’s play groups universally reject Nephilim anyway?

We decided to can all the warzone rules recently since we only play tempest of war anyway.

Same. We play tempest of war for matched and crusade for narrative.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Didn’t everyone’s play groups universally reject Nephilim anyway?

Considering the book sold out....probably not?

What if I told you… not every print run is the same size?

I think GW must be the only company in the world to double down on shunning digital book purchases post-2020.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Didn’t everyone’s play groups universally reject Nephilim anyway?

Considering the book sold out....probably not?

What if I told you… not every print run is the same size?

Except the book did sell out and people are now complaining online on multiple venues that there won't be more copies coming. This indicates demand and demand means quite a few players are using and/or want to use Nephilim.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arbitrator wrote:
I think GW must be the only company in the world to double down on shunning digital book purchases post-2020.

Which is super weird, but considering that they are the old man on the block it is not surprising.

 oni wrote:
I can't help but laugh. The whole 'seasons' is such a piss-poor idea. Nothing more than thinly veiled DLC garbage.

Literally everything that GW has done to pander to the competitive tourney-gakkers has gone badly. And rightfully so. They're a fething cancer.

The worst thing is codex churn then new edition cycle. The game just has no time to breath and if this isnt the case right now, despite new editions being big hype creators, in the end it will put off more people than it brings in.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Didn’t everyone’s play groups universally reject Nephilim anyway?

I can not speak for anyone but myself. But my impression from my friends that I play with, and my own thoughts, is that nephilim is great! More balanced secondaries, fun missions and less CP all around. Great great great.

Despite being annoyed with their lack of digital and general book/DLC spamming. The one thing I do buy is the Chapter Approved books and Nephilim is a good book with all those new secondaries that mainly improve the game.

I like the no free relics/traits and 6 starting CP, as I think it does really help "force" armies to look like armies with most players taking a single Patrol/Battalion to tournaments.

I'm concerned in their need to churn they'll make things worse in the next book, or they'll change nothing and I'll feel ripped off (yes I'm determined to be upset no matter).

 Amishprn86 wrote:
The CA book for the same price feels so bad.

Well, one good thing is that Chapter Approved Nephillum dropped in price from the previous Chapter Approved (and the Generals Handbook), as it doesn't have the points pamphlet and spiral bound and such.

I am surprised that the book is still having trouble getting stock, but there are backorders for everything these days. For my work, there are a few things I've been waiting for since June, supply shortages is the way of life.

With that said, this book it's a physical part (like a solenoid). They should make a digital version of at least the missions and secondaries. Maybe make it part of your Warhammer+ subscription, they already have the missions and secondaries in the 40k App, just unlock the content for folks.

For the rejection part, my group loves the changes in the current season, and started playing Nephillium day 1.

Dai wrote:

 oni wrote:
I can't help but laugh. The whole 'seasons' is such a piss-poor idea. Nothing more than thinly veiled DLC garbage.

Literally everything that GW has done to pander to the competitive tourney-gakkers has gone badly. And rightfully so. They're a fething cancer.

The worst thing is codex churn then new edition cycle. The game just has no time to breath and if this isnt the case right now, despite new editions being big hype creators, in the end it will put off more people than it brings in.

To be honest the problem is also physical product. Some datasheets are just garbage and won't be fixed by GW unless they give a new book. Honestly I think an approach like Marvel Crisis Protocol has would be better than the current version of GW. Just datasheet cards that can then be reprinted if they are ouf ot date.


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 Niiai wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Didn’t everyone’s play groups universally reject Nephilim anyway?

I can not speak for anyone but myself. But my impression from my friends that I play with, and my own thoughts, is that nephilim is great! More balanced secondaries, fun missions and less CP all around. Great great great.

Same here. Nephilim is honestly the best Matched Play system GW has delivered so far.


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 jaredb wrote:


With that said, this book it's a physical part (like a solenoid). They should make a digital version of at least the missions and secondaries. Maybe make it part of your Warhammer+ subscription, they already have the missions and secondaries in the 40k App, just unlock the content for folks.

Yep, access in the app would be the best thing for GW. Would also mean less hassle

I am also surprised how lazy GW is at throwing in a scoring sheet function into the app.

Supply chain shortages? Not likely. Not because of a lack of raw materials or labor anyway. If GW would stop printing everything in China, I suspect this would be a non-issue.

I don't understand why a limited period run like seasons isn't printed like a magazine. If they can put out white dwarf every month, they should be able to put out a season book every 6 months and keep it in stock. Also make it a lot cheaper.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 jaredb wrote:


With that said, this book it's a physical part (like a solenoid). They should make a digital version of at least the missions and secondaries. Maybe make it part of your Warhammer+ subscription, they already have the missions and secondaries in the 40k App, just unlock the content for folks.

Yep, access in the app would be the best thing for GW. Would also mean less hassle

I am also surprised how lazy GW is at throwing in a scoring sheet function into the app.

Agreed, a scoring system, and a way to track games would be a phenomenal feature to add to the app.

EightFoldPath wrote:
Despite being annoyed with their lack of digital and general book/DLC spamming. The one thing I do buy is the Chapter Approved books and Nephilim is a good book with all those new secondaries that mainly improve the game.

I like the no free relics/traits and 6 starting CP, as I think it does really help "force" armies to look like armies with most players taking a single Patrol/Battalion to tournaments.

I'm concerned in their need to churn they'll make things worse in the next book, or they'll change nothing and I'll feel ripped off (yes I'm determined to be upset no matter).

For us, the issue wasn't the changes to relics/traits and starting CP (which I assume is where most of the issues with the changes arise), it was more the other rules changes. Specifically, we didn't like the no sub-faction soup and the dedicated transport deployment rules changes that have been implemented over the various warzone books. We were originally just agreed to change the specific rules, but eventually just decided we might as well just ditch all the warzone content from the get go for the sake of simplicity (especially since we aren't using the missions anyway). All that said, our group is really small (it's really only two of us currently, at least in practice heh), so it's really easy for us to figure out stuff like this.

Karol wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

its totally optional tho.

As is eating, drinking and breathing. But it is hard to play the game called Life without them.

what a stupid comment lol, sure, Nephilim is totally as required as basic human needs -.-

I litterally listed other options in the very same post you replied to.

Stop trolling this forum.

Zustiur wrote:
I don't understand why a limited period run like seasons isn't printed like a magazine. If they can put out white dwarf every month, they should be able to put out a season book every 6 months and keep it in stock. Also make it a lot cheaper.

I agree. These also do not tend to be books you keep for sake of posterity. I think I've already thrown a few of my old MFM in the recycle bin. Keeping them cheap, accessible, and printed like a White Dwarf magazine would probably be ideal.

White dwarf could work, but as they already have the Data in the 40k app, they should just make the Generals Handbook, and Chapter Approved missions and objectives unlocked for free for Warhammer+ subscribers, be another way to draw folks into that subscription, and doesn't require printing anything.

Zarkro wrote:
It just seems crazy that their most supported way of playing has been sold out for over a month. How do they expect people to play it and go to tournemants f they don't sell it?

If only there existed a file format that could be used to upload this material paperless onto a computer. That would really solve these problems.

 jaredb wrote:
White dwarf could work, but as they already have the Data in the 40k app, they should just make the Generals Handbook, and Chapter Approved missions and objectives unlocked for free for Warhammer+ subscribers, be another way to draw folks into that subscription, and doesn't require printing anything.

Agree.

 Togusa wrote:

Zarkro wrote:
It just seems crazy that their most supported way of playing has been sold out for over a month. How do they expect people to play it and go to tournemants f they don't sell it?

If only there existed a file format that could be used to upload this material paperless onto a computer. That would really solve these problems.

Maybe some Russian will figure it out.

 Togusa wrote:

Zarkro wrote:
It just seems crazy that their most supported way of playing has been sold out for over a month. How do they expect people to play it and go to tournemants f they don't sell it?

If only there existed a file format that could be used to upload this material paperless onto a computer. That would really solve these problems.

GW: "We, as a community driven company, hear what you, our community, have been saying. That is why we are proud to announce a digital option for all of our seasonal material. Now, Warhammer+ subscribers can purchase digital copies of these books for use on the app, conveniently and efficiently stored as highly compressed jpg files!"

DeadliestIdiot wrote:


GW: "We, as a community driven company, hear what you, our community, have been saying. That is why we are proud to announce a digital option for all of our seasonal material. Now, Warhammer+ subscribers can purchase digital copies of these books for use on the app, conveniently and efficiently stored as highly compressed jpg files!"

They already have the matched play content (missions and secondary objectives) in the app, it's just locked behind a code. I think that it would make good sense to just allow access to that data for subscribers as just part of the subscription. They don't need to be PDF's, it's easier to use as the format it is in the app, rather then a PDF. They just need to get away from these being a monthly purchasable book item, and realize it'd be a great incentive for people to sign onto Warhammer+ to just include this with the sub.

They want people to use the App, this is a great way for them to do so, and also a great way for folks to access this content without needing to buy a book every 6 months.

Makes too much sense, so won't happen.

 oni wrote:
Supply chain shortages? Not likely. Not because of a lack of raw materials or labor anyway. If GW would stop printing everything in China, I suspect this would be a non-issue.

They’ve already shifted a bunch of printing to the UK and Europe. Cf the Chapter Approved that wasn’t spiral-bound.

Paper shortages and slots at printer are still an issue domestically.

Id much rather buy a copy of the rules in a White Dwarf than have to deal with the dumpster fire they call an App.

These rules have a built in 6-month shelf life. There is no reason to not sell them digitally.

Mariongodspeed wrote:
Id much rather buy a copy of the rules in a White Dwarf than have to deal with the dumpster fire they call an App.

These rules have a built in 6-month shelf life. There is no reason to not sell them digitally.

The app has actually improved a fair bit. Agreed on selling digitally though. Or just making it available to subscribers. That's a guaranteed way to have constant subs.

Mariongodspeed wrote:
Id much rather buy a copy of the rules in a White Dwarf than have to deal with the dumpster fire they call an App.

These rules have a built in 6-month shelf life. There is no reason to not sell them digitally.

I will say, that the army builder needs a few bug fixes still, but the datasheet and rules reference part of the app works well, and without issue.

But yes, regardless of format, it would make sense to make the rules for the season available digitally. Putting them in white dwarf can still end up with the same issue of stock running out (like with that white dwarf with all the steam codes last year).

Their whole seasons idea and regular campaign/crusade books has obviously not worked out for them.

Not only did they massively underprint the Nephilim GT pack, but uh, remember back before Nachmund when they announced the whole seasons thing.... they mentioned every season would have its Chapter Approved GT pack and an associated Warzone book + the smaller Crusade books to go along with it.

Notice how Warzone: Nephilim has not been announced at all and we're two months into this new season? Notice how they've completely stopped doing the small Crusade books too? In fact, remember how they revealed the first few Warzone books with nice animated trailers in their Twitch streams but the last couple were just quietly announced on Warcom in midweek articles?

All of those things, plus every LGS I know not ordering them for sale at all after Charadon, really does point to a product idea and roll-out that failed completely.

This is not to say that Tournament play dried up, far from it actually, but this stupid roll-out of updates has just pushed people further into using The Russian Site over actually purchasing GW's books.

EDIT: Especially when they post this with firm dates of content being made irrelevant and outdated, it's hardly a good advertisement for their books.

I have no idea why some posters here are praising Nephilim. The missions aren't ground breaking and the CP cut + paid Relic and Warlord trait was a straight nerf to armies that didn't need the nerf to begin with, simply because the best armies don't NEED the free stuff, it was merely a cherry on top.

 Bosskelot wrote:


EDIT: Especially when they post this with firm dates of content being made irrelevant and outdated, it's hardly a good advertisement for their books.

How do you, as a company, make that chart and NOT realize there's a problem with rules bloat? The warzone books sat on the shelf gathering dust at every store I've ever been to. The nachmund book was universally complained about by people who had to buy it for tournaments. They reduced production, and now Nephilim is sold out everywhere and events are having to make exceptions about physical rules because half the players can't even get a copy. They've had every possible problem because of all these extra books, the evidence is staring them in the face, and they just soldier on down the same path anyway. It's starting to remind me of the Kirby era, you just have to read between the lines to see the hostility now rather than it being openly stated in financial reports.

It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

"We don't care what our customers want" is definitely open hostility. Would you eat at a restaurant if the server interrupted your order with "We don't care what you want, the chef will make you what he wants and you're expected to like it or go somewhere else next time."?

Toofast wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

"We don't care what our customers want" is definitely open hostility. Would you eat at a restaurant if the server interrupted your order with "We don't care what you want, the chef will make you what he wants and you're expected to like it or go somewhere else next time."?

Would it matter though when people still defended GW's actions anyway?

I didn't see a lot of people defending them. I saw a lot of people just playing WMH or X-Wing instead, which led to them outselling warhammer among independent retailers for the first time ever. Defending them certainly didn't seem to be a majority position or that wouldn't have happened.

 Bosskelot wrote:
Their whole seasons idea and regular campaign/crusade books has obviously not worked out for them.

Not only did they massively underprint the Nephilim GT pack, but uh, remember back before Nachmund when they announced the whole seasons thing.... they mentioned every season would have its Chapter Approved GT pack and an associated Warzone book + the smaller Crusade books to go along with it.

Notice how Warzone: Nephilim has not been announced at all and we're two months into this new season? Notice how they've completely stopped doing the small Crusade books too? In fact, remember how they revealed the first few Warzone books with nice animated trailers in their Twitch streams but the last couple were just quietly announced on Warcom in midweek articles?

All of those things, plus every LGS I know not ordering them for sale at all after Charadon, really does point to a product idea and roll-out that failed completely.

This is not to say that Tournament play dried up, far from it actually, but this stupid roll-out of updates has just pushed people further into using The Russian Site over actually purchasing GW's books.

EDIT: Especially when they post this with firm dates of content being made irrelevant and outdated, it's hardly a good advertisement for their books.

My biggest problem is I don't know what (or why) any of it is. It's no surprise FLGSs aren't stocking it. I'm sure to the guys at GW HQ, this endless stream of Warzones, Flashpoints and GT Mission Packs makes some kind of sense, but I just don't get what the point of it all is. What's really stupid, is that books with updates for a small subset of unconnected armies were never going to sell well at the prices GW are charging. I'd need to be a pretty committed Tau player, for example, to want to buy a book with 3 pages of rules for my army, 15 pages for armies I don't own and a bunch of background for some random ongoing conflict that GW really wants you to think is important.

It's a shame their campaign books aren't even about campaigns in any rule sense. There is some mediocre background and maybe a one off scenario but that's it. I would totally buy a book with detailed background about how one specific world/subsector was conquered during the indomitus crusade, a chapter was set up and how the stationed elements held out against a counter attack. Then a rules pack on how to play out the conquest/defense of an unspecified subsector between a group of players.
Unfortunately GW doesn't want my money haha

Dai wrote:


The worst thing is codex churn then new edition cycle. The game just has no time to breath and if this isnt the case right now, despite new editions being big hype creators, in the end it will put off more people than it brings in.

hoho i'm still salty with traitor legions and 7th 5 years later or whatever. so salty in fact i never bought into 8th (and therefore 9th as well....) but thanks James W it got me into oldhammer and Mantic.

Mantic, whom I buy digital books from. And let me use whatever reasonable proxy for kings of war. and who has a great 40k replacement with their new firefight. I like Mantic.

(i still crack open my traitor legions every now and then to take a good look teary eyed)

edit: oh yeah i forgot about shadow war armageddon, that one was great me: yes this is awesome like its almost 2nd and like necromunda and like they even released online supplement factions ho boiy AND.... it lasted like 6 months then 8th kill team or skirmish or whatever they had

i understand the business model aspect of it, but i really cant imagine current playerbase that joined during 8th lasting much longer, 3 core rulebooks in 6 years... potential of 5 marine codexes same time period, if 9th 2.0 proves true?

Brickfix wrote:
It's a shame their campaign books aren't even about campaigns in any rule sense. There is some mediocre background and maybe a one off scenario but that's it. I would totally buy a book with detailed background about how one specific world/subsector was conquered during the indomitus crusade, a chapter was set up and how the stationed elements held out against a counter attack. Then a rules pack on how to play out the conquest/defense of an unspecified subsector between a group of players.
Unfortunately GW doesn't want my money haha

You must be reading different books from me... the ones I have are exactly what you are describing here.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I have no idea why some posters here are praising Nephilim. The missions aren't ground breaking and the CP cut + paid Relic and Warlord trait was a straight nerf to armies that didn't need the nerf to begin with, simply because the best armies don't NEED the free stuff, it was merely a cherry on top.

I recommend trying out the current game to see why people like it; especially tournaments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Their whole seasons idea and regular campaign/crusade books has obviously not worked out for them.

Not only did they massively underprint the Nephilim GT pack, but uh, remember back before Nachmund when they announced the whole seasons thing.... they mentioned every season would have its Chapter Approved GT pack and an associated Warzone book + the smaller Crusade books to go along with it.

Notice how Warzone: Nephilim has not been announced at all and we're two months into this new season? Notice how they've completely stopped doing the small Crusade books too? In fact, remember how they revealed the first few Warzone books with nice animated trailers in their Twitch streams but the last couple were just quietly announced on Warcom in midweek articles?

All of those things, plus every LGS I know not ordering them for sale at all after Charadon, really does point to a product idea and roll-out that failed completely.

This is not to say that Tournament play dried up, far from it actually, but this stupid roll-out of updates has just pushed people further into using The Russian Site over actually purchasing GW's books.

EDIT: Especially when they post this with firm dates of content being made irrelevant and outdated, it's hardly a good advertisement for their books.

Frequent update of tournament rules was something that I think a lot of tournament people appreciated. For narrative and casual players the campaign and crusade books were just too frequent with very little gameplay addition and often priced way too high. We had a Crusade campaign in the beginning of the year and the amount of books and narrative progression was just too swift or did not fit the current factions in the group.

One big campaign book that has everything for the season would be nice instead of the several campaign books followed with extra Crusade books we got.

 Jidmah wrote:

Brickfix wrote:
It's a shame their campaign books aren't even about campaigns in any rule sense. There is some mediocre background and maybe a one off scenario but that's it. I would totally buy a book with detailed background about how one specific world/subsector was conquered during the indomitus crusade, a chapter was set up and how the stationed elements held out against a counter attack. Then a rules pack on how to play out the conquest/defense of an unspecified subsector between a group of players.
Unfortunately GW doesn't want my money haha

You must be reading different books from me... the ones I have are exactly what you are describing here.

Hm might have to take another look then. Whatever was advertised on Warhammer community was not what I was looking for (I don't really like the way crusade campaigns work). And I have been heavily burned when I bought one of the psychic awakening "campaign" books. The story was really bad, it had a bunch of rules that got invalidated before I could ever play them, and one scenario. Not worth it for me.

Agree, PA was campaign in name only. The book of rust was quite bad and overpriced, but the Octarius and Nachmund books were pretty decent resources for campaign play.

The crusade mission packs are hit and miss. The first one was too bland, planet strike flat out doesn't work, but the others and especially the FFA missions are great.

 Eldarsif wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I have no idea why some posters here are praising Nephilim. The missions aren't ground breaking and the CP cut + paid Relic and Warlord trait was a straight nerf to armies that didn't need the nerf to begin with, simply because the best armies don't NEED the free stuff, it was merely a cherry on top.

I recommend trying out the current game to see why people like it; especially tournaments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Their whole seasons idea and regular campaign/crusade books has obviously not worked out for them.

Not only did they massively underprint the Nephilim GT pack, but uh, remember back before Nachmund when they announced the whole seasons thing.... they mentioned every season would have its Chapter Approved GT pack and an associated Warzone book + the smaller Crusade books to go along with it.

Notice how Warzone: Nephilim has not been announced at all and we're two months into this new season? Notice how they've completely stopped doing the small Crusade books too? In fact, remember how they revealed the first few Warzone books with nice animated trailers in their Twitch streams but the last couple were just quietly announced on Warcom in midweek articles?

All of those things, plus every LGS I know not ordering them for sale at all after Charadon, really does point to a product idea and roll-out that failed completely.

This is not to say that Tournament play dried up, far from it actually, but this stupid roll-out of updates has just pushed people further into using The Russian Site over actually purchasing GW's books.

EDIT: Especially when they post this with firm dates of content being made irrelevant and outdated, it's hardly a good advertisement for their books.

Frequent update of tournament rules was something that I think a lot of tournament people appreciated. For narrative and casual players the campaign and crusade books were just too frequent with very little gameplay addition and often priced way too high. We had a Crusade campaign in the beginning of the year and the amount of books and narrative progression was just too swift or did not fit the current factions in the group.

One big campaign book that has everything for the season would be nice instead of the several campaign books followed with extra Crusade books we got.

They......really don't, and for the reasons I listed. I did try them, and the missions aren't much different to what we've already gotten all on top of not actually hurting the top armies, let alone bringing up the bottom ones.

And tournament players like updates, but not constant ones that need to be paid for to rectify mistakes that GW should've caught to begin with.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

They......really don't, and for the reasons I listed. I did try them, and the missions aren't much different to what we've already gotten all on top of not actually hurting the top armies, let alone bringing up the bottom ones.

And tournament players like updates, but not constant ones that need to be paid for to rectify mistakes that GW should've caught to begin with.

Your definitely not alone. The missions are a perfectly fine update, nothing mind blowing, and I liked the start with 6cp and gain 1 each turn.

But I really disliked the pay for 1st Warlord trait and Relic, and most people I have played the Nephilim mission with at our local store have asked me if we could just ignore it.

I have basically just switched to doing the Tempest Mission cards and using the 6cp rule without paying for the WL or Relic. It seems to work out pretty well and opponents are happy with those games.

 Noir Eternal wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

They......really don't, and for the reasons I listed. I did try them, and the missions aren't much different to what we've already gotten all on top of not actually hurting the top armies, let alone bringing up the bottom ones.

And tournament players like updates, but not constant ones that need to be paid for to rectify mistakes that GW should've caught to begin with.

Your definitely not alone. The missions are a perfectly fine update, nothing mind blowing, and I liked the start with 6cp and gain 1 each turn.

But I really disliked the pay for 1st Warlord trait and Relic, and most people I have played the Nephilim mission with at our local store have asked me if we could just ignore it.

I have basically just switched to doing the Tempest Mission cards and using the 6cp rule without paying for the WL or Relic. It seems to work out pretty well and opponents are happy with those games.

It's one thing to do either/or, but they went and did both instead of actually looking at the problems themselves. It's the flyer fix all over again and the Rule of Three fix all over again. GW shouldn't be doing constant updates if they're not gonna bother to do them correctly.

Toofast wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

"We don't care what our customers want" is definitely open hostility. Would you eat at a restaurant if the server interrupted your order with "We don't care what you want, the chef will make you what he wants and you're expected to like it or go somewhere else next time."?

I find this to be a flattering interpretation, implying a certain degree of awareness and choice. My opinion on his management isn't that high; I don't think Kirby was even cognizant of the concept that customers want to be asked.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Toofast wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

"We don't care what our customers want" is definitely open hostility. Would you eat at a restaurant if the server interrupted your order with "We don't care what you want, the chef will make you what he wants and you're expected to like it or go somewhere else next time."?

I find this to be a flattering interpretation, implying a certain degree of awareness and choice. My opinion on his management isn't that high; I don't think Kirby was even cognizant of the concept that customers want to be asked.

One might say it was even otiose in its niche

Exalted

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Noir Eternal wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

They......really don't, and for the reasons I listed. I did try them, and the missions aren't much different to what we've already gotten all on top of not actually hurting the top armies, let alone bringing up the bottom ones.

And tournament players like updates, but not constant ones that need to be paid for to rectify mistakes that GW should've caught to begin with.

Your definitely not alone. The missions are a perfectly fine update, nothing mind blowing, and I liked the start with 6cp and gain 1 each turn.

But I really disliked the pay for 1st Warlord trait and Relic, and most people I have played the Nephilim mission with at our local store have asked me if we could just ignore it.

I have basically just switched to doing the Tempest Mission cards and using the 6cp rule without paying for the WL or Relic. It seems to work out pretty well and opponents are happy with those games.

It's one thing to do either/or, but they went and did both instead of actually looking at the problems themselves. It's the flyer fix all over again and the Rule of Three fix all over again. GW shouldn't be doing constant updates if they're not gonna bother to do them correctly.

The problem is that "correctly" is a very subjective metric. What do you consider "correctly" and can you state it a better way than saying "balanced"? Because whenever people talk about balanced and correctly we end up getting a 10 page essay that boils down to "I think". Which is why I kind of prefer measurable metrics. Otherwise GW could have just not bothered with releasing Warhammer at all in the first place as each game has had issues that portray that they didn't do things "correctly".

Remember also that Perfect is the Enemy of Good. The reason for the iterative process is that it allows GW(or any company doing similar) to move the scales of the game towards balance.

Looking at the tournament scene we are seeing winrates getting closer and closer to each other which indicates that GW's attempts are bringing the game to a nice point. Sure, internal balances in many codexes is still bad and with how GW addresses those things they will require a new codex, but overall the game is in a surprisingly good state if you are in the tournament scene. So for random pickup games that are based off the matched play/tourney system the game is in a nice spot.

Of course, if you have no interest in the tournament scene and are playing something like casual, beer & pretzel with your friends or people you know then the CA stuff really doesn't matter, especially now that the point updates have been divorced from the book update(which was an excellent thing to do by GW). This is what GW has been doing for the past few years: provide various ways and venues to play the game and with each iteration each venue is becoming better with price being the sure thing that gets progressively worse as they go up.

I just get the feeling people are not realizing that GW is serving a wide array of players. So if you are not happy with the updates it doesn't mean that the players that are affected directly by the updates are not happy. I play tournaments regularly and the Nephilim changed the game a lot. I would also add that the big change in Nephilim was not the missions, but the secondaries. The changing of secondaries changed a lot in how the game was played. If people are not playing Matched Play games or ignoring the secondaries then of course the update doesn't feel like much of a change.

The lack of balance hurts tournament players a lot less, then someone who just plays at a store. Tournament players optimise and if something is bad they will not play it. They will quit or switch, instead of being stuck with a bad army. Someone who just plays IG, because they like mass human infantry or waves of orcs are not in that position. Because the fixs to the game that GW proposes are either totaly out of the players hands. Like others had to let them tinker the rules and change them, and then allow the changes to last over a time. Or they have to level up and start playing with the stuff they don't like, don't want to use etc And even then that extra investment may just mean that an over all more powerful book will just be better anyway.

In case of nephilim the seconaries changes gave people the option, which they took up instantly, to play some armies in a very NPE way. Necron and SoB, are not more or less playing soliter. There is practicaly no interaction or ways for the opponent to stop a necron players from scoring bar ungodly luck with rolls. At the same time other factions had their secondaries chewed up and spit out, on top of changes to CP. For example ad mecha, with the changes to CP gain and use, should have some deep change to their secondaries. They are an army designed with heavy use of CP, both pre and durning game.
GW did no such thing. In fact that is probably one of the worse thing about w40k. Balance or lack of it, bad rules etc those are bad, but the idea that you could be left with a codex designed to be played in a different way then the current edition, for years sometims, is something that makes people not stay longer then an edition.

Toofast wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

"We don't care what our customers want" is definitely open hostility. Would you eat at a restaurant if the server interrupted your order with "We don't care what you want, the chef will make you what he wants and you're expected to like it or go somewhere else next time."?

Restaurants like that DO exist and people spend hundreds to go to them.

Karol wrote:
The lack of balance hurts tournament players a lot less, then someone who just plays at a store. Tournament players optimise and if something is bad they will not play it. They will quit or switch, instead of being stuck with a bad army. Someone who just plays IG, because they like mass human infantry or waves of orcs are not in that position. Because the fixs to the game that GW proposes are either totaly out of the players hands. Like others had to let them tinker the rules and change them, and then allow the changes to last over a time. Or they have to level up and start playing with the stuff they don't like, don't want to use etc And even then that extra investment may just mean that an over all more powerful book will just be better anyway.

As an IG only player (here for the tanks though), I can confirm heh. Thankfully, I have a lot of fun regardless of whether I win or lose (and my record is extremely heavily skewed towards lose heh). Granted, as I've mentioned before, we play tempest of war and don't use any of the warzone books.

I don't even think it is a question of winning or losing, those are separate from the game itself. It is the stuff like, you shouldn't have space marines in your space marine army because they are bad or if you play orks you don't want boys in your army etc Wins or chance to win will always differ, by virture of many factors, starting with model pools, their age and ending with stuff like studio interest. But if a codex give or had an option to play an X army with Y as its core, then the rules should not be rewriten mid edition to make Y an option you never ever want to take. And in those rare cases, when maybe this is warrented, the army should get something in return. Ad mecha are confusing for the regular non top table tournament player to play. We remove the confusing parts, instead the army gets this 3 things to balance it. The we remove it and now wait 2-3 years for an update is an attrocious thing to do. If a car company tried something like that, it would end up in court.

 Eldarsif wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Noir Eternal wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

They......really don't, and for the reasons I listed. I did try them, and the missions aren't much different to what we've already gotten all on top of not actually hurting the top armies, let alone bringing up the bottom ones.

And tournament players like updates, but not constant ones that need to be paid for to rectify mistakes that GW should've caught to begin with.

Your definitely not alone. The missions are a perfectly fine update, nothing mind blowing, and I liked the start with 6cp and gain 1 each turn.

But I really disliked the pay for 1st Warlord trait and Relic, and most people I have played the Nephilim mission with at our local store have asked me if we could just ignore it.

I have basically just switched to doing the Tempest Mission cards and using the 6cp rule without paying for the WL or Relic. It seems to work out pretty well and opponents are happy with those games.

It's one thing to do either/or, but they went and did both instead of actually looking at the problems themselves. It's the flyer fix all over again and the Rule of Three fix all over again. GW shouldn't be doing constant updates if they're not gonna bother to do them correctly.

The problem is that "correctly" is a very subjective metric. What do you consider "correctly" and can you state it a better way than saying "balanced"? Because whenever people talk about balanced and correctly we end up getting a 10 page essay that boils down to "I think". Which is why I kind of prefer measurable metrics. Otherwise GW could have just not bothered with releasing Warhammer at all in the first place as each game has had issues that portray that they didn't do things "correctly".

Remember also that Perfect is the Enemy of Good. The reason for the iterative process is that it allows GW(or any company doing similar) to move the scales of the game towards balance.

Looking at the tournament scene we are seeing winrates getting closer and closer to each other which indicates that GW's attempts are bringing the game to a nice point. Sure, internal balances in many codexes is still bad and with how GW addresses those things they will require a new codex, but overall the game is in a surprisingly good state if you are in the tournament scene. So for random pickup games that are based off the matched play/tourney system the game is in a nice spot.

Of course, if you have no interest in the tournament scene and are playing something like casual, beer & pretzel with your friends or people you know then the CA stuff really doesn't matter, especially now that the point updates have been divorced from the book update(which was an excellent thing to do by GW). This is what GW has been doing for the past few years: provide various ways and venues to play the game and with each iteration each venue is becoming better with price being the sure thing that gets progressively worse as they go up.

I just get the feeling people are not realizing that GW is serving a wide array of players. So if you are not happy with the updates it doesn't mean that the players that are affected directly by the updates are not happy. I play tournaments regularly and the Nephilim changed the game a lot. I would also add that the big change in Nephilim was not the missions, but the secondaries. The changing of secondaries changed a lot in how the game was played. If people are not playing Matched Play games or ignoring the secondaries then of course the update doesn't feel like much of a change.

Correctly would be to actually hit the top armies or lift the bottom armies, and neither was done with those changes. Not rocket science.

Also "perfect is the enemy of good" only works when GW makes an attempt to begin with. Their sledgehammer method is NOT the definition of "good" at all, let alone worth calling an attempt.

 Eldarsif wrote:
This is what GW has been doing for the past few years: provide various ways and venues to play the game and with each iteration each venue is becoming better with price being the sure thing that gets progressively worse as they go up.

There aren't really iterating on any other game modes though - crusade is still plagued by many issues that were ironed out of matched play long ago. For example, GT went through three iteration of secondaries, plus there was a pile of new ones for every army. Crusade is still stuck with agendas that mirror the BRB secondaries.

Not to mention that there are bunch of books that are desperately need of errata/updates but aren't getting anything, and I'm not talking about balance or codex strength - just broken rules, missing keywords and the like.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Toofast wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

"We don't care what our customers want" is definitely open hostility. Would you eat at a restaurant if the server interrupted your order with "We don't care what you want, the chef will make you what he wants and you're expected to like it or go somewhere else next time."?

Restaurants like that DO exist and people spend hundreds to go to them.

The fancy restaurants I go to usually bend over backwards to cater to the customer. They park your car for you, take your jacket and hang it up, pull your chair out, bring a little stand to the table for your wife's purse, have internal temperature listed with the cooking options for beef, bring the dessert tray so you can see what you're actually eating instead of a picture on a menu, show you the bottle of wine and ask your approval before opening, etc. It was basically the total opposite of the "luxury boutique" GW experience where they asked your salary on the way in, took your wallet, handed you a pile of space marines, and shoved you out the door while spitting at you.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Toofast wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

"We don't care what our customers want" is definitely open hostility. Would you eat at a restaurant if the server interrupted your order with "We don't care what you want, the chef will make you what he wants and you're expected to like it or go somewhere else next time."?

Restaurants like that DO exist and people spend hundreds to go to them.

And those restaurants are run by a chef that is in the elite of the elite, making food on a level where you'd be an idiot to try to second-guess the chef anyway. Tell me with a straight face that GW is on that level of expertise.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Karol wrote:
As is eating, drinking and breathing. But it is hard to play the game called Life without them.

Despite what the Max Maxian world you live in may make you think, 40k is not life, and Nephelim is not one of life's (or the game's) requirements.

Actually (IMO) Nephilin is a very interesting improvement over previous "seasons".

And the factual cost of playing Nephilin rules approaches cero... Unless you are hellbent in adquiring an original document that GW dosent actually print in proper numbers.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Toofast wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was never hostility, only stupidity. Kirby was proud to state GW did nonmarket research.

"We don't care what our customers want" is definitely open hostility. Would you eat at a restaurant if the server interrupted your order with "We don't care what you want, the chef will make you what he wants and you're expected to like it or go somewhere else next time."?

Restaurants like that DO exist and people spend hundreds to go to them.

And those restaurants are run by a chef that is in the elite of the elite, making food on a level where you'd be an idiot to try to second-guess the chef anyway. Tell me with a straight face that GW is on that level of expertise.

In both cases the seller believes with confidence that they know how to best serve the customer better than the customer themselves (the chef being correct in that) but they still care about what the customer wants. Kirby said he did not ASK the customer; he was expressing how confident he was in knowing what they wanted without needing to ask. It was outright delusion rather than willful disregard; actively not caring about the customer base would mean the management was largely successful, the reality is the management decisions of GWs least popular period were made in honest belief that they WERE what the customer wanted.

I can only guess as to why Aecus would want to make late Kirby-era management seem more savvy than it was, but it is certainly a well-crafted way to do it given the context of this forum.

I really like the changes in Nephilim for CP and relics/WL traits, it toned down some of the wombo combo 40k we were seeing. However I highly dislike the printed book structure for these updates. Charge me if you have to but at least let me download it so I don't have another book to bring with me and try to hunt down before it goes out of stock.

Toofast wrote:
I really like the changes in Nephilim for CP and relics/WL traits, it toned down some of the wombo combo 40k we were seeing.

Except for the top armies that don't cate to begin with. It's like y'all don't play competitive and just dislike Relics and Strats to begin with.

IMO the relic/WL change worked well at 2000 but really doesn't at 1000 which is the format I play way more often. CP being limited is fine, but being that starved for them is pretty annoying for armies relying on them.

Them costing cp is fine. Whether starting cp amount is right is another. But as long as army x has better traits/artefacts than army b it isn't fair first ones are free.

I like that the first one isn't free as it expands army options; if a player doesn't want to bring them they can choose to do so. I think it would have been received well if it didn't come alongside such a big cut to starting CP.

Army b having chracters that don't need relics or WLT to function when army x does isn't fair either.

Quite a few characters and mechanics have been written with free relics and traits in mind.

tneva82 wrote:
Them costing cp is fine. Whether starting cp amount is right is another. But as long as army x has better traits/artefacts than army b it isn't fair first ones are free.

I'd much rather see them remove all the extra WLT/relic strats so armies have to make some choices about which one to take. The current approach is OK, but feels like a band aid rather than a proper solution. It's symptomatic of the way GW operates. They often identify the right problem but they are terrible at finding the correct solution. Ironically, this is literally the opposite of how good designers should operate.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like that the first one isn't free as it expands army options; if a player doesn't want to bring them they can choose to do so. I think it would have been received well if it didn't come alongside such a big cut to starting CP.

Unless of course you happen to play something like codex Ad Mecha where the whole design of your army is based on the idea of multiple relics, overlaping bonus rules from spending extra CP on warlords and extre relics. Then if you get no compensation, your army just got worse.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like that the first one isn't free as it expands army options; if a player doesn't want to bring them they can choose to do so. I think it would have been received well if it didn't come alongside such a big cut to starting CP.

This literally makes no sense. Why didn't you want to bring one when it was free in the first place?

Zarkro wrote:
Well if the game is in a good place (as many seem to think it is) maybe just extend Nephelim another six months and throw in another balance slate / points adjustment for free?

The game is busted, the worst its been in years. No one around my parts will even play. They've all left for Conquest, Legion or some other game.

I have been trying to get a copy of Nephilim. I'm going to NOVA for the Trios team tournament and they're saying that at least one person needs to have a copy of all rules a team uses. Unfortunately, its a Nephilim tournament, and I wasn't even paying a little bit of attention to the releases of GW's DLC seasons, so I missed it completely and now can't get one.

I called a local FLGS to see if they had any and the owner was pretty mad at GW. According to her distributor, there were 3000 English copies printed with no intentions of a reprint. I'm not sure I 100% buy that number, but if it's even close to that it was a truly INSANE move on GW's part. While a lot of the DLC books for 9th edition have rotted on store shelves, Nephilim really shook up the game by changing army construction via command point distribution and altered the secondaries pretty good.

It's amazing to me that GW can still make seemingly rookie mistakes like this just because they're so focused on the dollar signs. Perhaps, ultimately, that says more about me than them. At this point it's like seeing a train wreck every morning and still being surprised by it...

"Hold one; Hold Two; Hold More"... Now you know every mission that has been printed for all of 9th edition W40K.

And remember... Tactical play and critical thinking are not necessary when playing 9th edition missions. All terrain on every table is identical and your Secondary Objectives never need to change. So just do the same thing over and over every game and when you're done you can compare and see who performed their repetitive loop the best.

See how easy that is?

Still laughing. Competitive play is fething cancer.

Mike Brandt = The new Matt Ward

 oni wrote:
All terrain on every table is identical and your Secondary Objectives never need to change. So just do the same thing over and over every game and when you're done you can compare and see who performed their repetitive loop the best.

Just last Saturday I saw someone prepping for an upcoming tournament using those A/B Terrain layouts required by the tournament that I have ripped apart multiple times here on Dakka.

It really is terrible and creates games that are far different than any other type of play in the stores. Its really like they are playing a completely different game. Much larger shooting lanes allowing more Alpha strike potential, no obstacles or difficult terrain to slow down infantry, verticality significantly reduced, dense terrain in completely useless locations, etc...

 godswildcard wrote:
I have been trying to get a copy of Nephilim. I'm going to NOVA for the Trios team tournament and they're saying that at least one person needs to have a copy of all rules a team uses. Unfortunately, its a Nephilim tournament, and I wasn't even paying a little bit of attention to the releases of GW's DLC seasons, so I missed it completely and now can't get one.

I called a local FLGS to see if they had any and the owner was pretty mad at GW. According to her distributor, there were 3000 English copies printed with no intentions of a reprint. I'm not sure I 100% buy that number, but if it's even close to that it was a truly INSANE move on GW's part. While a lot of the DLC books for 9th edition have rotted on store shelves, Nephilim really shook up the game by changing army construction via command point distribution and altered the secondaries pretty good.

It's amazing to me that GW can still make seemingly rookie mistakes like this just because they're so focused on the dollar signs. Perhaps, ultimately, that says more about me than them. At this point it's like seeing a train wreck every morning and still being surprised by it...

Here you go, as of 8/25/22 1pm, they say it's in-stock.....
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/warzone-nephilim-grand-tournament-mission-pack-2022-eng

Thanks for the update ccs. Maybe GW is just giving the middle finger to the FLGS again for restocks.

At least GW is doing the bare minimum and making sure people can get their hands on it though.

ccs wrote:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/warzone-nephilim-grand-tournament-mission-pack-2022-eng

Well that didn't last long. OOS once again

Seriously, I was even registered for a restock alert on that and not a peep, and now it's sold out again.

I know it's a little thing, but it is really irritating and doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth with GeeDubs.

 alextroy wrote:

ccs wrote:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/warzone-nephilim-grand-tournament-mission-pack-2022-eng

Well that didn't last long. OOS once again

My apologies! I gave GW the smallest amount of credit way too soon. My bad, I was wrong!

They remade another 500 of them I guess...

I was going to post that they still had it in Europe, but it is back in stock in the USA again. Go figure.

I guess you just have to keep checking.
And be prepared to order as soon as you see it.