Warlord has announced that Bolt Action is getting updated to a 3rd edition.

Edit: The new edition released today, 9/26/2024

Edit: Competitive play update
https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-competitive-play/

Edit: Article on changes to Close Combat
https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-close-combat/

Edit: Article on updated Sniper rules.
https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-snipers/

Edit: New article on morale and troop quality
https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-troop-quality-morale/

Edit: Article on changes to vehicles
https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-vehicles/

Edit: Article on new Special Rules
https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-special-rules/

Edit: Article on changes to shooting phase
https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-the-shooting-phase/

Edit: Article on changes to Medium Machine Guns (MMGs)
https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/third-edition-mmgs-big-changes/

Edit: New article on Amy composition and building
https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-army-composition/

Edit: The third edition is now up for pre-order:
https://us.warlordgames.com/collections/bolt-action-3

Includes new US Winter Infantry and new German Fallschirmjäger in winter camouflage.


Edit: more details from the Warlord Community below:
https://www.ospreypublishing.com/us/osprey-blog/2024/announcing-bolt-action-third-edition/)

Edit: First of new Army of books discussed.
https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/armies-of-germany-q1-2025/

Announcing Bolt Action: Third Edition
By
Osprey
on
Wednesday, April 17, 2024
in
Osprey Games

This is what you’ve all been waiting for. Warlord Games and Osprey Games are proud to announce a new edition of the world’s greatest World War II wargame…

**********************************

“My chief mission with Bolt Action: Third Edition was to make my favourite game an even
better experience for the players. For me, there’s always one goal in mind –
continuing my quest for a truly ‘seamless’ set of wargame rules – in other words,
the Holy Grail of a rules system where the players are always thinking about their next moves
on the table, and not about the rules of the game! I think Bolt Action: Third Edition is definitely
a big step in that direction, and I’m sure you’ll agree with me!”
- Alessio Cavatore, Bolt Action: Third Edition author

A revised and updated third edition of the best-selling Bolt Action World War II wargaming rules from Warlord Games.

Bring the great battles of World War II to your tabletop with Bolt Action. Strike out from the beaches of Normandy towards Germany. Sweep across the deserts of North Africa in lightning raids.
Battle the enemy and the sweltering heat in the jungles of Asia and on the islands of the Pacific.
Fight doggedly from street to street in Arnhem, Stalingrad, and Berlin.

Whatever your preferred style of play, or your historical interests, the diverse army and scenario options will allow you to build a force that fits. Field everything from standard rifle platoons to heavily armoured tank forces, fast-moving reconnaissance patrols, and even artillery units.

This third edition features refined and updated rules and starter army lists to get new players straight into the action. Seasoned veterans, meanwhile, will find new tactical depth in the detailed force composition mechanics and a wide variety of fresh challenges in the scenario generation system. Rally your forces, study the terrain, and prepare for battle – the fight continues!

// COMING 26.09.2024 //

Pre-order your copy today here.

**********************************

Want to hear more about what’s in store for Bolt Action? Stay tuned for further information.

And read the official FAQ from Warlord Games here.



Additional info:
We don’t make announcements of this magnitude very often, but today is a very special day – Bolt Action: Third Edition is coming! In partnership with our good friends at Osprey Games, we’re delighted to announce this awesome update to our flagship World War II wargame. With a passionate, dedicated community of wargamers and nearly 16 years of existence, it’s time for Bolt Action to keep moving forward with the lessons learned from thousands upon thousands of games, and of course all of your feedback!

Written by renowned games designer (and veteran of previous editions) Alessio Cavatore, Bolt Action: Third Edition features a whole host of revised and updated rules to provide the most enjoyable games possible, while maintaining the essential ‘spirit’ of Bolt Action that we all know and love – here’s what Alessio has to say about it:


“Working on this new edition of Bolt Action has been a treat, but also a challenge. I saw my mission as trying to make my favourite game an even better experience for the players. For me, there’s always one goal in mind – continuing my quest for a truly ‘seamless’ set of wargame rules – in other words, the Holy Grail of a rules system where the players are always thinking about their next moves on the table, and not about the rules of the game! I think Bolt Action: Third Edition is definitely a big step in that direction, and I’m sure you’ll agree with me!”

So, what can you expect from Bolt Action: Third Edition, and from Warlord Games over the coming months? Well, first off, the game will be out in late September of this year – definitely a month to circle in your calendars! Bolt Action veterans can expect to find a game that’s very recognisably the one they know and love, with many core mechanics intact, but one that’s been refined, updated, and tuned to provide even smoother gameplay, while new players will be welcomed to a system that’s easy to pick up and learn. A brand-new, completely re-worked army list selection system provides fantastic new opportunities for fielding truly unique forces, while the new scenario generator brings fun, challenging new missions to the tabletop.

While we’re all incredibly excited about Bolt Action: Third Edition, we’ve also got loads of other awesome releases for many of our other ranges between now and late September, and we’re going to give them the attention they deserve. This means that you won’t hear very much more about the new edition of Bolt Action from us until around July, when we’ll begin showing off all the new features in earnest and taking pre-orders! We know you’ll have questions, of course, and we’ve prepared a few bits of info that we’re certain you’ll want to know right away:

Can I still use my current models and armies?
Absolutely! We put a lot of work into ensuring that the majority of Second Edition armies fit into the new force selection system with minimal additions. You’ll likely find, however, that you’ll want to invest in some units that you might not have considered in the current edition, as there have been widespread changes to points costs and individual unit rules!

What about my rulebooks?
The Bolt Action: Third Edition rulebook will immediately supersede the Bolt Action: Second Edition rulebook, and all existing Armies of… books. Contained within the main rulebook will be five ‘starter’ army lists allowing you to construct forces for Great Britain, the USA, the USSR, Germany, and Imperial Japan, while other nations will have similar lists available as PDF downloads. These will allow you to start playing right away, and will be familiar to Second Edition players, but each will be replaced by a regular, ongoing series of releases of Third Edition Armies of… books.

Campaign and Theatre books will remain valid, as the background and scenarios are still very much relevant, but the vast majority of the units contained therein will be updated and addressed in the new Armies of… books. We’ve taken the opportunity of Bolt Action: Third Edition to completely overhaul unit profiles, special rules, and points from across the dozens of sources from the first two editions, and collate them, making it easier than ever for players to field their chosen armies.

Do I need any different dice, tokens, or templates?
Nope! Bolt Action: Third Edition still uses all the Bolt Action staples we know and love – d6, Pin markers, our multi-function templates, and of course the iconic Order Dice activation system – it wouldn’t be Bolt Action without it, after all!

Will there be any further books or FAQs released for Second Edition?
At this stage, it’s all hands on deck for Bolt Action: Third Edition, so there are no more Second Edition book releases planned. Similarly, the FAQ currently available on the website is the final one for that edition – however, if you have any rules questions regarding Second Edition, you can always continue to email them to info@warlordgames.com and we’ll answer them on an as-needed basis. Please note, our award-winning Customer Service team won’t be able to give you any more information about Third Edition at the moment – it’s strictly Top Secret!

Is there anything else I should know right now?
Just that the best way to get all of your Warlord Games news (including Bolt Action updates which will start in earnest in July) is to sign up to our twice-weekly newsletter, if you haven’t already!

Seasoned veterans will enjoy the feeling of buying the same game a third time ?

 privateer4hire wrote:
Seasoned veterans will enjoy the feeling of buying the same game a third time ?

I feel I can get behind an eight year edition cycle.

*Edited to the correct number of years. 1st editon was 2012, second was 2016. So the gap between editions is getting larger (as it should).

Yeah, new editions are fine when the authors have actually worked towards making improvements or reducing bloat. Heck, I wish Chain of Command would get a second edition to incorporate some of the changes that has occurred over time, like realizing the Platoon ratings needed adjusting.

Bolt Action 2.0 is a beast that has some definite problems, especially if Warlord wants it to be their "Here's a good transition away from 40k/AoS into Historicals" game. Tanks need love, MMGs (and gun teams in general) need help.

The main book will have platoon lists for Great Britain, the USA, the USSR, Germany, and Imperial Japan, and other nations will get new PDF lists. The new book will also keep the Campaign and Theatre books valid.

I'll probably stick to 2nd edition but if ever required to, and if it is good, might jump to 3rd.

If they go with the very same spirit and basically just refine the game even further, why not. Plus it's been a while already when 2nd came out!

Eight years feels like a good run on the current edition, which heh, is also more or less how long ago I last played Bolt Action, around the end of first edition. We'll see, kinda curious to see what this new edition will be bringing.

well, to jump from 1rst to second was mostly just patching 1st edition, the logic here seems to enhance 2 edition. That's the trick, because stuff is bound to be ill tested, or come up with results unaccounted for, and will need correcting as it goes. But if they don't overdue it and have implemented new stuff wisely, that might just be the same game, but better. Let us hope

I just added another post from the Warlord Community. Seems like it will be very similar and streamlined. Hopefully that does not mean simplified too much. It will be interesting to see the changes.

Not sure they'd need to change a lot or tune down a lot to make it easy to pick up. BA rules, while many, are mostly logical and effective. The hardest for a complete beginner at wargaming would be to grasp basic, common wargaming concepts and conventions - beyond this, nothing too difficult.

I found Bolt Action fairly easy to grasp and get into compared to 40k. Less cognitive load involved, just lighter and better written all around...so hopefully this new edition stays a bit similar. I do wonder if a new starter box will come with the edition.

Having bought my books less than six months ago, I'm going to take a "wait and see" attitude.

To put it another way, I'm going to want to see significant positive changes to justify buying new books.

If they get rid of templates I can definitely get behind a new edition. One of the best things about first edition

I actually like templates and don't mind them staying at all. They're cinematic, add an element of taking terrain into account to accommodate that risk, and make average hit results more consistent. While not behind to tiresome as you literally place it to hit the most.

At least to my group it was a net gain

Eck, not managed to actually play 2nd edition yet, though I do own it

in general terms Warlord seem to issue games that get better incrementally so less of the trepidation than a GW "nuke from orbit" release.

nice the army books are slated for an update, though this does suggest something reasonably fundamental has changed.

will wait and see

I would expect mostly incremental changes. I hope they address some issues with MMG and also with vehicles. I think vehicle damage is one of the more complex rules, but not sure how you simplify that without getting silly simple.

I am a touch worried about changes to army building. I hope they keep historical limits and formations in mind, but at the same time, no plan survives contact with the enemy. It would be nice if EVERY unit got a time frame added to it since many don’t, even if not hard enforced.

Overall I am hopefully and doubt there will be anything earthshaking. I do wonder if this will be a start to trying to bring BA and K47 rules more in line again to simplify transition from one game to the other.

 privateer4hire wrote:
If they get rid of templates I can definitely get behind a new edition. One of the best things about first edition

I suggest you read what WL wrote. They've specifically stated they're keeping the template.

Have they hinted at an update to Konflikt 47 to go along with 3rd edition?

Ugh, feth this, edition churn is not what I look for in a historical game. Or any game for that matter but I understand (even if I don't like) the need for tryhard tournament games to have a moving meta.

Again, I'm not sure eight years counts as edition churn, especially as it was twice the length between 1st and second.

 legionaires wrote:
Have they hinted at an update to Konflikt 47 to go along with 3rd edition?

That is something I'd like to see. If I ever get around to playing with my 40k minis again, it'll likely be using a house version of K47.

Well, a lot of the army books that are going in the dustbin aren't 8 years old, smartie pants, and besides if it's just minor changes with a new number on it just to sell books then it's churn whether it's eight years or eight months. It's possible to update a game without making people throw books away and get their wallets out.

 vadersson wrote:
I would expect mostly incremental changes. I hope they address some issues with MMG and also with vehicles. I think vehicle damage is one of the more complex rules, but not sure how you simplify that without getting silly simple.

I am a touch worried about changes to army building. I hope they keep historical limits and formations in mind, but at the same time, no plan survives contact with the enemy. It would be nice if EVERY unit got a time frame added to it since many don’t, even if not hard enforced.

Overall I am hopefully and doubt there will be anything earthshaking. I do wonder if this will be a start to trying to bring BA and K47 rules more in line again to simplify transition from one game to the other.

Vhl rules are somewhat cumbersome at first but once you've taken the gist they feel less clumsy.

I wouldn't hope to much about historicity, BA has never really been a game that focused on this aspect I think, rather, it is really a strategy game with plastic crack. But that might be, just because of this, a possible axis of improvment.

MMG could really do with a buff though, I mean they're that rad, but next to useless most of the time I fielded one.

I have conflicting opinions on this.
One, cries in no 2nd edition soviet book
Two, i finally have a good starting point to actually start playing the game


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dawnbringer wrote:
Again, I'm not sure eight years counts as edition churn, especially as it was twice the length between 1st and second.

 legionaires wrote:
Have they hinted at an update to Konflikt 47 to go along with 3rd edition?

That is something I'd like to see. If I ever get around to playing with my 40k minis again, it'll likely be using a house version of K47.

unrelated to the discussion, but I have to appreciate your Sam Vimes profile picture. Great taste you got there.

 legionaires wrote:
Have they hinted at an update to Konflikt 47 to go along with 3rd edition?

That will really torque me off. Just bought that book about 6 months ago


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
If they get rid of templates I can definitely get behind a new edition. One of the best things about first edition

I suggest you read what WL wrote. They've specifically stated they're keeping the template.

I had read it. Just wishing out loud

Knew I'd seen this somewhere...

So, my soon-to-be 12 year old has never really got the Warhammer bug - but when I mentioned there was a similar game but set in WW2 his eyes lit up. Wondering about a starter box for his birthday, however that is way before this new edition comes out.

From the description in the initial post it sounds like it shouldn't matter too much if we buy a starter box now and then a new copy of the rules a bit later. Is there anything I need to be aware of regarding the various starter boxes currently out there? Are any a lot older, have a poor collection of models, or anything else that might affect my choice? Or would it (as I hope!) just be a case of what he likes the look of?

I would just get what he likes the look of. FLGS should be getting their hands on a redemption code for each 2nd Edition rulebook and Band of Brothers Starter Set that a customer can redeem for a pocket version of the 3rd Edition rulebook when it gets here.

Nice one, thank you. Just saw the code for the new rule book on the Warlord website. Fair play to them, that's decent.

As a Bolt Action fan, I would find out what part of WW2 most interests you son. The North Africa desert war? D-day? The eastern front? Depending on that there are a number of great options. You can even make a decent starter army from just one box of soldiers.

FYI the Soviet and Japanese boxes are probably some of the oldest and their sculpts are not great. Newer sets include a Gentleman’s War (north Africa British and German), the new Italians, and brand new French minis. The Band of Brothers is popular too, but not really balanced forces. Also note that other WW2 minis can be used, Wargames Atlantic make some great stuff and Rubicon models make great vehicles. You also don’t have to play at 28mm. 15 mm is popular as are 1/72 and 1/45 using just model kits.

I've been thinking of getting into bolt action, but I do have one quibble; they all seem to be green.
Like, I look at the German, American and French ranges and they are all green.

Then I look at the Commonwealth and Japanese ranges and they are all yellow.

How much freedom do you have when it comes to painting? I'm assuming that they give you a list of uniform and regimental colors to choose from?

Apparently the Japanese are really fun and I don't think any of the Bolt Action players locally play them, so I'm going more towards them, although the Soviet Snow Vets look nice. Apparently the IJA are old models though? When will they be updated?

They're your toys, paint them however you want. Part of the fun of historicals is researching the camo patterns and colour schemes though in my opinion and trying to get it vaguely accurate

It actually is surprising how much variation there is in a “uniform”. However, they do tend to run green, tan, grey, and white as being seen in bright pink on a battlefield draws fire.

That said you could paint things however you like. Most of the time the battlefield you choose determines colors, but there is a fair variation. The French in particular had a lot of blue at the beginning of the war (but see how that worked out…)

As for figures, this is a historical game, and you are not limited by copywriter or IP. There are many other sources of figures besides Warlord. My Japanese army is 3D printed using the excellent models from Studio Historia who really did a lot of research. I also hope the Japanese forces will be due for an update soon. The Soviets are in a similar boat. The French and Italians were the latest update I believe.

That's what I was thinking, if I'm going historical I might as well make it historical.
Although I am tempted to get into Konflik 47', so at that point it might not even matter.
Is Konflik even a thing? Warlord doesn't seem to have that range anymore?

Actually Warlord just recently acquired K’47 from the orinigal design team. Many hope that with BA 3rd coming out a revised K’47 with compatible rules will be released. K’47 uses modified BA 1st edition rules, so if both systems moved to a 3rd edition rules set it would be helpful. Of course K’47 needs extra rules to cover all the weird war stuff. I expect to see more K’47 stuff in the future

Oh that's good. I was always interested in K47. I'm a sucker for Weird War and Weird West

Bought the Band Of Brothers set for my son - looking forward to him opening it on the 1st... I can easily see myself getting some British commandos to play with too.

Added new post from Warlord Games about 3rd edition Army of books to the first post.

Looks like a kind of slow release schedule. Hopefully there will be a conversion doc or a lot of stuff in the core rulebook.

Billicus wrote:
Well, a lot of the army books that are going in the dustbin aren't 8 years old, smartie pants, and besides if it's just minor changes with a new number on it just to sell books then it's churn whether it's eight years or eight months. It's possible to update a game without making people throw books away and get their wallets out.

So it looks like the army books will become obsolete, but lists will be available in the main rule book or PDF downloads so the armies won't be invalidated and will still be playable from the start. New Army books will come in future. Campaign/theatre books are still valid.

So you're looking at, what, £25 for the rulebook and £15 for an army book to bring yourself up to date with 3rd edition? That's assuming you don't just stick with 1st/2nd edition anyway.


I don't think that every 8 years is a deal breaker.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I've been thinking of getting into bolt action, but I do have one quibble; they all seem to be green.
Like, I look at the German, American and French ranges and they are all green.

Then I look at the Commonwealth and Japanese ranges and they are all yellow.

How much freedom do you have when it comes to painting? I'm assuming that they give you a list of uniform and regimental colors to choose from?

Apparently the Japanese are really fun and I don't think any of the Bolt Action players locally play them, so I'm going more towards them, although the Soviet Snow Vets look nice. Apparently the IJA are old models though? When will they be updated?

Unfortunately WW2 isn't a great era for colorful armies especially at that scale. I think pretty much everything after Napoleon has been a fairly dull variation on being harder to shoot at instead of being easy to identify on a battlefield.

That said, unless you're up against serious picky neckbeards, I doubt anyone will mind if you tweak things a bit or go for something experimental.

Herzlos wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I've been thinking of getting into bolt action, but I do have one quibble; they all seem to be green.
Like, I look at the German, American and French ranges and they are all green.

Then I look at the Commonwealth and Japanese ranges and they are all yellow.

How much freedom do you have when it comes to painting? I'm assuming that they give you a list of uniform and regimental colors to choose from?

Apparently the Japanese are really fun and I don't think any of the Bolt Action players locally play them, so I'm going more towards them, although the Soviet Snow Vets look nice. Apparently the IJA are old models though? When will they be updated?

Unfortunately WW2 isn't a great era for colorful armies especially at that scale. I think pretty much everything after Napoleon has been a fairly dull variation on being harder to shoot at instead of being easy to identify on a battlefield.

That said, unless you're up against serious picky neckbeards, I doubt anyone will mind if you tweak things a bit or go for something experimental.

I find it's not that bad. What immediately comes to mind:

Germans can have a good bit of variety. Next to the standard grey-green, you can have blue navy troops. I'd have to check, but maybe blue air force personnel as well. Also black tank crews sticking out of your tanks that have a fair number of camo patterns. And when it comes to camouflage, you have a bit of variety with SS, especially the orange/brown autumn camo. Then there's Volkssturm in civilian clothing. Winter theme might also be something of interest with regular pants and white jackets.

USMC is kind of nice, too. Olive as the baseline but with a camouflage option as well as some models that show a lot of skin. Also vehicle camo.

Japanese are similar. Drab for navy, tan for army, a neat jungle camo pattern for tanks and a bunch of half starved, half naked guys with pointy sticks.

Not sure if Russians have a partisan unit in their army or if you have to go with the partisan army list, but partisans offer a pretty nice variety of civilian and military clothing. You could easily have Russian army models, infiltrators in German uniforms and civilian models all in the same army. Plus a looted wagon if you're so inclined.

With regard to the Japanese infantry kit, in technical terms it's not really old. Bolt Action started out with somewhat primitive German and American models. The Japanese are already of the next generation. They're nice models in my opinion, and I'm not sure there's much an update would change. The biggest limitation is that it's specifically army. Navy troops have to make do with a few metal add-on bits to look the part.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh that's good. I was always interested in K47. I'm a sucker for Weird War and Weird West

As am I, simply love alt-history settings. Our group primarily plays Konflikt '47, we find the weird war element rally fun and engaging.

Some of us paint with traditional WW II uniforms, and others like myself have envisioned the clothing and gear changing
color over the years that have passed and the shift in the war. Here is my German scheme.



Regarding the rules, we are excited to see them hopefully align with BA 3.0
and have them all consistent. Here is the question -- will BA 3.0 adopt the reactions found within the current K-47 rule book? that would be
fascinating to see, but I'm not sure they are necessary.

These dudes have got a Clear Sky vibe to them

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
These dudes have got a Clear Sky vibe to them

I can't wait for Bandit models for the Soviets.
Cheeki Breeki iv Damke.

Oh yes, ooh yes, Cheeki Breeki Levy box set, give it now!

They get bonuses to stealth and you must play Hard Bass the whole time they are on the table.

Actually I would love to find some stalker figures to paint.

But we're going off track here, after all it wasn't a stalker thread until the both of us got started

Any recommendations of battle reports on youtube? I've never played Bolt Action but I am interested.

vadersson wrote:
Overall I am hopefully and doubt there will be anything earthshaking. I do wonder if this will be a start to trying to bring BA and K47 rules more in line again to simplify transition from one game to the other.

legionaires wrote:Have they hinted at an update to Konflikt 47 to go along with 3rd edition?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:That's what I was thinking, if I'm going historical I might as well make it historical.
Although I am tempted to get into Konflik 47', so at that point it might not even matter.
Is Konflik even a thing? Warlord doesn't seem to have that range anymore?

vadersson wrote:Actually Warlord just recently acquired K’47 from the orinigal design team. Many hope that with BA 3rd coming out a revised K’47 with compatible rules will be released. K’47 uses modified BA 1st edition rules, so if both systems moved to a 3rd edition rules set it would be helpful. Of course K’47 needs extra rules to cover all the weird war stuff. I expect to see more K’47 stuff in the future

Any of you folks heard any more info about K47?

At Adepticon, all the Warlord folks would say to my query about K47 is that..

they hadn't forgotten k47, they all love k47, they wouldn't have bought the property for a bunch of money if they didn't have plans for it, they do have plans for it, and they can't say any more...

Personally, I really hope K47 gets brought into compatibility with 3rd edition, and mostly that it just gets a well-organized rulebook. We tried a brief K47 campaign and we loved the setting and the rules seemed solid, but I've never done so much rulebook flipping in my life, even with just the first rulebook and some pretty-good QRF sheets we were able to find online.

I've got some gas-masked Sikhs on my work desk now and I'd love a reason to add a couple more units to my WWW2 British.

 Ahtman wrote:
Any recommendations of battle reports on youtube? I've never played Bolt Action but I am interested.

I really enjoy the 8 battle reports at Miniature Game Montage. Mostly a dad and his son with very reasonable length reports. He really gives the battle reports the feel of watching an old baseball game. I highly recommend them.

Other than that just search for bolt action on YouTube. You will find a lot. There is a group called Games Night that does some great narrative mission (one with Indiana Jones even) and Cinematic Tabletop also does a good set, including some K’47 games.

 vadersson wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Any recommendations of battle reports on youtube? I've never played Bolt Action but I am interested.

I really enjoy the 8 battle reports at Miniature Game Montage. Mostly a dad and his son with very reasonable length reports.

I know them for Necromunda. Didn't realize they had done Bolt Action games.

I hope they don't retire any factions just to hamfistedly put new ones in like some other games do. Brazil has entered the war!

 Eilif wrote:
they hadn't forgotten k47, they all love k47, they wouldn't have bought the property for a bunch of money if they didn't have plans for it, they do have plans for it, and they can't say any more...

Personally, I really hope K47 gets brought into compatibility with 3rd edition...

This would really be the scenario that makes the most sense. One system, two (similar) backgrounds. Saves on rules writing.

 warboss wrote:
I hope they don't retire any factions just to hamfistedly put new ones in like some other games do. Brazil has entered the war!

I assume this is a joke about changing historical lore. It can be hard to tell on-line. (But I do think it is funny.)

Regardless I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that Brazil did actually fight in WW2 in Italy. They were equipped with all American equipment and had 25,000 men in the mountains of Italy fighting the Germans. I am not sure if they are covered in the France and Minor Allied nations army book or not. Either way, they would use basic American equipment (much like most of the minor Allies).

One awesome thing about Bolt Action is that the current rules do pretty much cover all the nations that fought, even the little ones. Unfortunately a lot of them are a bit cookie cutter. One hope is that 3rd edition might add better and more flavorful national rules to the minor powers. It is really obvious on the allies side with the minor powers basically all using France’s special rules.

Just wanted to make sure Brazil got her due.

What would be a good nation for a mechanized force? I know that Russians get Trucks and Japanese are more infantry focused, but are there APCs?

I'm going to assume that Armies of ____ is the codex equivalent, but what are theatre books and campaign books? Are they just expansions?

The armies of books are basically codexes. The theater and campaign books give specific sce arios, rules, and units for that particular campaign. Some of the theater books greatly expanded the basic armies and others even added new Armies (for example China and specific Austrailian forces). From what I read a lot of those expanded units will be in the new 3rd edition army books.

A typical player would need the core rules and an army of book.

Germany was thr most advanced Mechanized forces with half tracks for APCs. They are a good choice if you want the best mechanized infantry. Most nations in the 40's were still usi g a lot of trucks. America also had good half track units. England ended up developing some I testing APC type vehicles in the Bren Carrier and the Ram Kangaroo. Russia mostly walked,used trucks, or rode tanks. Again you can find options in most armies. But generally trucks are cheap and APCs are more expensive too.

 vadersson wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I hope they don't retire any factions just to hamfistedly put new ones in like some other games do. Brazil has entered the war!

I assume this is a joke about changing historical lore. It can be hard to tell on-line. (But I do think it is funny.)

Regardless I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that Brazil did actually fight in WW2 in Italy.

***snip***

Just wanted to make sure Brazil got her due.

Definitely a joke (hence the smiley face at the end) at GW's expense given their recent escapades. I was joking about doing something like including a new Brazilian front (or even a U-boats on the Amazon expansion!) with a new faction to sell slightly different models all while retiring a known major faction like the British. I was aware they were in the war (mainly at sea) but not admittedly to that extent on land.

 vadersson wrote:
The armies of books are basically codexes. The theater and campaign books give specific sce arios, rules, and units for that particular campaign. Some of the theater books greatly expanded the basic armies and others even added new Armies (for example China and specific Austrailian forces). From what I read a lot of those expanded units will be in the new 3rd edition army books.

A typical player would need the core rules and an army of book.

Germany was thr most advanced Mechanized forces with half tracks for APCs. They are a good choice if you want the best mechanized infantry. Most nations in the 40's were still usi g a lot of trucks. America also had good half track units. England ended up developing some I testing APC type vehicles in the Bren Carrier and the Ram Kangaroo. Russia mostly walked,used trucks, or rode tanks. Again you can find options in most armies. But generally trucks are cheap and APCs are more expensive too.

Hmm a lot of people in my area already play US, UK and Germany. I guess I'll continue considering IJA. Their Konflikt 47 range is one of the better ones anyway.
When is 3rd edition scheduled to be released, and how does it take for an army book to come out?

PS: Brazil is a bad example as they were fighting in Italy along the allied forces

(A full infantry division and 1 fighter squadron)

 vadersson wrote:


One awesome thing about Bolt Action is that the current rules do pretty much cover all the nations that fought, even the little ones. Unfortunately a lot of them are a bit cookie cutter. One hope is that 3rd edition might add better and more flavorful national rules to the minor powers. It is really obvious on the allies side with the minor powers basically all using France’s special rules.

Just wanted to make sure Brazil got her due.

She did indeed fight. Battlefront even published a Flames of War list for Brazil at one point (though I don't know if there's an updated list for the most recent version of the game).

However, while there are lists, that doesn't guarantee that those lists are accurate. When the Romanian list was published in the Axis Minors book, I found a number of errors in the list, and brought them up on the forums. I never received a response, and to the best of my knowledge no corrections were ever issued. Something to be aware of.

Germany was thr most advanced Mechanized forces with half tracks for APCs.

From the PoV that the half-track mounted Panzer Grenadiers are pretty good, I have to agree. From the historical availability of transport vehicles for the German infantry, I have to disagree. Only the Panzer Grenadiers got transports, and most of them were mounted in trucks. If you were regular infantry, you marched. As you note, Americans also have excellent mechanized infantry. And unlike the Germans, everyone historically rode. If you were part of a tank division, you rode in a half-track. If you were in an infantry division, you rode in a truck. I think the American Lend-Lease support was also able to bring the rest of the Western Allies up to that standard by Normandy.

Yeah, iirc, the whole thing about the Germans being super-mechanized and having a lot of motor vehicles at their disposal is a myth. They actually relied quite a bit on horses for their logistical needs.
Which makes sense, economically speaking; the Germans did not have much oil (unlike the Americans or Russians), so they couldn't deploy armoured forces in such huge numbers as their US and Soviet counterparts.

What they did have they used quite effectively, having adopted the idea of Manuver Warfare, or Bewungskrieg, as part of their doctrine.

Speaking of horses, I really like that they gave the Poles a cav regiment. That's a nice touch.

All very good points. Some lists also get good updates in campaign books. I believe fortress Budapest upgraded the Hungarian army list substantially


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Very good points about Germany, they did not meet their mechanization goals by a lot. But I do think the PG were probably the best mechanized troops.

Thanks,
Duncan

the Germans did not have much oil

The problem wasn't oil (though that was a concern). The problem was manufacturing capability. They Germans simply didn't have the ability to build trucks and half-tracks in the numbers needed. Conversely, the US had insane amounts of it, which is why it was able to fully motorize its own infantry, and send massive numbers of trucks (and other items) to the UK and USSR.

That too, yes. Insisting on building big, complicated tanks and so called "wunderwaffen" didn't help matters either.

Bolt action is not really a reenactors game anyway, some I'm not necessarily against them not being fully historical, although the more they are, the better that would be.

Well, if you look in this forum, you will see a big surprise. Andy Chambers is going to lead K'47 development for Warlord Games. I'll let you all read it and discuss in that thread, but pretty cool that it comes just after we have been discussing it here a bit.
Thanks,
Duncan

Added new Pre-Order data and info and two new minis sets

Kind of a shame they put that same old ruined farmhouse in the starter box instead of something new.

New german winter models? It's like all the model companies are trying to distract me on purpose.

Also, does anyone know if Warlord has confirmed/mentioned if the current (if you can even call it that) Soviet Armybook will be compatible for 3rd?

 bullisariuscowl wrote:
New german winter models? It's like all the model companies are trying to distract me on purpose.

Also, does anyone know if Warlord has confirmed/mentioned if the current (if you can even call it that) Soviet Armybook will be compatible for 3rd?

If it’s an Armies of book, I think it’s superseded by the new edition.

“What about my rulebooks?
The Bolt Action: Third Edition rulebook will immediately supersede the Bolt Action: Second Edition rulebook, and all existing Armies of… books. Contained within the main rulebook will be five ‘starter’ army lists allowing you to construct forces for Great Britain, the USA, the USSR, Germany, and Imperial Japan, while other nations will have similar lists available as PDF downloads. These will allow you to start playing right away, and will be familiar to Second Edition players, but each will be replaced by a regular, ongoing series of releases of Third Edition Armies of… books.”

https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-september-2024/

It's not a very good starter set, in my opinion. I'm put off by the imbalance and the return of that farmhouse. Also, only making the new models available in 3 box bundles is a bit sleazy, 90 infantry is generally way too many for a Bolt Action army

I too am a bit disappointed that they are not releasing boxes for just a platoon of each of the new sets. Not that I want to make winter anything, but it would be nice to have an easier option.

https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-army-composition/

News on army composition, is it just me or does it feel like the game is shifting from more of a platoon size to a company size? I'm not sure I like what i'm seeing if i'm being honest. I liked Bolt Action because the games were larger than skirmisih, but still not as overwhelming as 40k.

I think it's just opening it up so that the basic level of play allows people to align more closely with historical forces rather than relying on a force org from a campaign book.

I look forward to the new organization. It will be interesting to see if officers get a points cut as that will make addding platoons more expensive. But I do like focusing your army rather that everyone pretty much having the same generic reinforced platoon. I can’t wait to try a field arty battery.

I think that looks good to me, unless they heavily drop the points for everything, the game isn't going to get larger as much as it is going to get more diverse with what people field.

Not certain I welcome that change either, with bolt action being at heart more of a competitive skirmish game, the old platoon streamlined the armies in a way that ensured org chart abuse was not truly an option.

Now, this open the door to platoons being way more powerful than others and ending up with weird lists, I fear.

But that's mostly an a priori impression there, we have yet to see how this actually transfers to the gameplay and balance, maybe they got it right!

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Not certain I welcome that change either, with bolt action being at heart more of a competitive skirmish game, the old platoon streamlined the armies in a way that ensured org chart abuse was not truly an option.

Now, this open the door to platoons being way more powerful than others and ending up with weird lists, I fear.

But that's mostly an a priori impression there, we have yet to see how this actually transfers to the gameplay and balance, maybe they got it right!

They also specifically mentioned that they have another article coming about tournament packets, and Bolt Action tournament rules... so really hard to say org charts can NOW be abused when they could previously as well.

There wasn't a limit on how many platoons you could make in the last edition as long as you also filled out the requirements from what I recall, so this doesn't change anything for the casual gamer unless I am mistaken, unless somebody's group had agreed to restrictions on how many platoons can be taken.

Without seeing what their intentions are for the "competitive" scene, I really don't see anything to worry about.

Let's say that I'm somewhat skeptical, but as you say, clearly no reason to alarm oneself as of yet.

if the box had the proper full size rulebook I'd be considering it - I already have some winter SS & Americans they could work with

however the mini sized one and older eyes mean no, may look at the individual book though

So the biigg MMG change is......one more shot.

Oh and small teams and exceptional damage are gone, so they cant be one shot by a snipers anymore and aren't outshined by two man teams in terms of tankyness. Vehicle mounted MMGs fire half shots (so 3).

These changes are good imo. But as far as MMGs go, one more shot doesn't really make them seem that much better. We had been running a house-rule for our games where MMG (teams only!) always cause a Pin marker on a unit they fire at, regardless if they hit or not. These are primarily suppressive weapon systems and are designed to keep the enemy pinned down while infantry moves in. It worked out nicely, as taking shots at targets you otherwise wouldn't due to a number of negative modifiers was suddenly viable, even if damage wasn't to be expected. It allowed MMG teams to harass units that just sit in a building and snipe or call arty down. Personally I wish they added this.

I will try and update the first post with the new information.

I also wish they had done more with pins. But I think what we have here is good.

I used to run an mmg with my rifle platoon. Looking at the new org charts, I’m not sure how I could do that in the new edition.

 privateer4hire wrote:
I used to run an mmg with my rifle platoon. Looking at the new org charts, I’m not sure how I could do that in the new edition.

Basically you would have a basic rifle platoon with 2 infantry squads and an Lt. min then add another Lt. and two MMG or mortar squads in a Heavy Weapons platoon. So the minimum investment is generally two of things now with some extra HQ units. But if you run 1 MMG and 1 medium mortar it is basically the same as the old reinforced platoon but with an extra LT. and the ability to add 3 more MMGor mortars.

I suspect point changes will be very interesting and impact this all as well. They ash keep saying HQ unit, not Lt, so maybe other HQ units like Sargent will show up to as options?

To be fair, this change when applied to the old reinforced platoon's single MMG team wouldn't be too great. But now that you can take a heavy weapons platoon with up to 5 MMGs, maybe free Pin markers would be way too much lol. That is a lot of firepower.

 vadersson wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
I used to run an mmg with my rifle platoon. Looking at the new org charts, I’m not sure how I could do that in the new edition.

Basically you would have a basic rifle platoon with 2 infantry squads and an Lt. min then add another Lt. and two MMG or mortar squads in a Heavy Weapons platoon. So the minimum investment is generally two of things now with some extra HQ units. But if you run 1 MMG and 1 medium mortar it is basically the same as the old reinforced platoon but with an extra LT. and the ability to add 3 more MMGor mortars.

I suspect point changes will be very interesting and impact this all as well. They ash keep saying HQ unit, not Lt, so maybe other HQ units like Sargent will show up to as options?

Thanks. That’s what I was thinking (having to buy weapons platoon with another officer). Not really digging that but looks like that is the way it works.

does make running the current "starter army" boxes interesting

MMG & Mortar into a heavy weapons platoon
Anti tank gun into an artillery one
Tank into another

you don't get three rifle platoons though

overall I think its a good way to move though, expect to see more infantry, could perhaps be worth one "any unit" option so a single slot is there for "anything" without requiring the rifle platoon

expect the army lists when they arrive to have more flexibility in limited ways though

looking forward to trying this

I have been trying pretty hard to plan out an army for the game, but without knowing a bit more about potential force specific platoons it has been a bit hard to figure out what I need for a Fallschirmjager army besides the obvious Rifle Platoon and I guess a Heavy Weapons Platoon.

Was thinking of picking up some LG40 recoilless guns, but not really sure I want a full Artillery Platoon, or to end up having to do two Rifle Platoons, a Heavy Weapons Platoon, AND and Artillery Platoon.

this is where the system Chain of Command uses is superior, you have the base platoon - exactly as stated, though there are several to look through

then add support once you know the table, mission and opponents base force

leopard wrote:
this is where the system Chain of Command uses is superior, you have the base platoon - exactly as stated, though there are several to look through

then add support once you know the table, mission and opponents base force

It's only superior if you have all the models for the support options though.

 Dawnbringer wrote:

leopard wrote:
this is where the system Chain of Command uses is superior, you have the base platoon - exactly as stated, though there are several to look through

then add support once you know the table, mission and opponents base force

It's only superior if you have all the models for the support options though.

One would assume that if you've chosen to play a game that works like that that you'd invest in the needed models....

 Dawnbringer wrote:

leopard wrote:
this is where the system Chain of Command uses is superior, you have the base platoon - exactly as stated, though there are several to look through

then add support once you know the table, mission and opponents base force

It's only superior if you have all the models for the support options though.

this is true, same with any game you are somewhat limited by what you actually have - though given you usually don't have a vast amount of support stuff its less of an issue than it could be.

its more or less the same as in Bolt Action picking your faction and announcing it, then setting up a table, rolling a mission and only then actually building your force - means less chance of bringing stuff you outright can't use (or can't use sensibly) - e.g. a mission where you need to say go off the other side of the table and immobile static guns springs to mind, or only the defending player bringing static defences. you still don't know exactly what you will face, just that say you are tasked with capturing a small settlement as Americans from the Germans or whatever

that system however also ensures you have one, and only one, core platoon, usually three squads and command plus a few baked in bits. support is limited only by points, though they are few enough in number you tend not to be able to spam anything and it is very much stuff you will need to support the core force - if you have the points bringing several MMG is possible, its unlikely you are spamming tanks

 Dawnbringer wrote:

leopard wrote:
this is where the system Chain of Command uses is superior, you have the base platoon - exactly as stated, though there are several to look through

then add support once you know the table, mission and opponents base force

It's only superior if you have all the models for the support options though.

Isn't one of the advantages of a historical game that the minis are affordable enough that you can have a wide variety of options. Even moreso for a relatively small game like Bolt Action or Chain of Command.

Makes sense too whether your aim is playing GW style list-building games against a variety of enemies and/or to have the ability to play out a variety of more realistic historical scenarios.

Key I think for a good game with a historical setting is that it has to support historical matchups as well as more tournament focussed without either breaking the game

New article up on changes to the shooting phase. This is the first change for 3rd Ed that I really dislike. I do not want to have to roll more dice to shoot thing. And keep watching my hits get negated. Hmm. :(

they really are going for 40k players

would have done better to use the same system with the D10 from GoA and kept the modifiers

Did anyone else notice one of the modifiers was 'firer is pinned -1'? This would seem to indicate that it's no longer -1 PER pin. I hope that isn't the case.

I hate that they're doing cover saves. I don't care how much they tested this in studio, other groups will absolutely take more time to resolve rolls with this new system. Was anyone even asking for this? Talk about fixing what isn't broke.

So lemme get this straight, MMGs are bad so lets give them one more shot....then make the basic hit roll more difficult. Hmm.

I like all the army building changes a lot, but these are not great.

these changes are a solution looking for a problem and have the feel more of the "problem" being "how do we sell more rulebooks and faction lists? and how to sell more infantry sets at the same time?"

I suspect the change that seems to make bringing multiple tanks easier is a pure coincidence

There is a lot of discussion on Reddit about this. This is probably the most controversial change so far. But a few things to realize.
1. There are a lot fewer modifiers to fire. A lot of math heads have worked it out, and the new numbers seem to be about the same as the old numbers. Remember just about everything had -1 “long range” on most shots.
2. It does appear pins give a flat -1 to hit. But I suspect they will still cumulatively impact the order check. Just now if you pass the order check, you will be at least somewhat effective.
3. I too dislike saves and adding a third roll. But there were already a lot of 3rd or 4th rolls in v2. 7+ to hit (which seems to be going away), and exceptional damage which was confirmed to go away. Both of those required rerolling dice. So in the end, I think it will be a wash. Still not a fan.

Looks like AT guns get a +1 to hit tanks when given a Fire order. Not bad, Im glad I have four Pak 40s painted up!

https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-special-rules/?__s=xxxxxxx&utm_source=drip&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=3rd+Edition+Special+Rules+Detailed,+an+Epic+Battles+Painting+Guide+%26+Game+Report,+%26+More

The more I research about the 3rd edition rules, the more I like them! IT will be very easy to get new players into the fold of playing the game without fiddling will tons of modifiers that can bog down a turn.

Should I start BA now and get a starter set and wait for the book later, or should I wait until 3rd ed is actually released?

I'm thinking of going IJA and branch off to K47 later.

I reckon that if you haven't started yet, you might want to wait until 3rd drops, but nothing stops you from buying minis as after all us soldiers or a german contingent or whatever are unlikely to recieve any significant change anyhow.

Buy in for sure, but wait till the rules come out to play. That way you avoid the potential "what once was" issue. Just get some stuff painted up while you wait. Only a month or two left.

I agree with the above. If you want to go IJA, look around and start finding miniatures. The Warlord Games minis for IJA are not the best either. If you can do 3D printing, maybe look at Studio Historia and their IJA and SNLF STL files. I have the IJA Sons of Yamato and it is likely all the files I will need to field and IJA force.
Remember there are no copyrights on history.

The 3rd Ed rules come out in Sept. and I would just start playing with the new rules. It does seem like there are quite a few changes.

New article up on some changes to morale. Not too much changing I think, though vehicles may need to be more careful. Rally is a more effective order now however.

It’s Wednesday, and that means it’s time for another Intelligence Briefing on the upcoming Bolt Action: Third Edition! Today, we’re talking about troop quality, morale, and a few different things that spin off from those concepts. While there are some pretty big changes, one of the guiding principles of Third Edition is that if something worked and we couldn’t think of a way to make it straight-up better – leave it well alone!

Veterans of Bolt Action: Second Edition will be delighted to know that nothing major has changed when it comes to troop quality and morale – Inexperienced are wounded on a 3+ and have a morale of 8, Regulars 4+ and 9, and Veterans 5+ and 10 – so why are we writing this article? Rolling to wound happens just the same as it did in the last edition, as do morale and order checks. It’s a part of the game that works really well, and so we didn’t make any fundamental changes.

What we did do, however, is change quite a few bits around that core, and that’s what today’s article is about (as well as giving you a little bit of insight into the design process!). There’s a notable change to one of Bolt Action’s six Orders, an update on new-look Officer teams, and a reason for vehicles to be careful near the edge of the table – a little bit of everything for you!

Full article here: https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/bolt-action-third-edition-troop-quality-morale/

 vadersson wrote:
New article up on some changes to morale. Not too much changing I think, though vehicles may need to be more careful. Rally is a more effective order now however.

Rally was rubbish, removing the leadership modifiers on the order has been needed from day one, you lose a turn to rally to then modify that as well basically meant stick a couple of pins on a unit then ignore it - now seems being pinned is less of a problem, but still a negative and its easy to get rid of.

do think it should still have been "removes 1d6" pins, not "removes all pins", still at least there is still a check so not automatic.

overall this is a positive change

Interesting, looks like if a weapon team loses the “Leader” they can keep firing at a -1 to hit. So a Sniper can take out the MMG gunner (leader I assume) and the other guys can still shoot at -1. So no more instant kill for weapons teams which is nice, but they lose some effectiveness, which makes sense.

New article on close combat. Very small but significant change. Not sure the impact in the end, but hopefully will help with some of the over zealous charges in the game.

New update on how V3 tournaments will be supported and talk of what kinds of games.

Only 1.99 gbp per month for the app with army builder.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Only 1.99 gbp per month for the app with army builder.

at least there is no sign this "app" is required, and its just optional

Yeah, the app cost was a disappointment. Apparently they are trying to follow GW and the Warhammer app and Warhammer+. The hope is that Easy Army will update to V3 and remain the best choice like it currently is.

I’m wondering if easy army will still be free for basic forces

Yeah, the concern is if they get C&Ded from Warlord. That would be very disappointing. I must say I am not sure how much I blame them thought. You can’t copyright WW2, so they don’t have a chokehold on minis for their games like GW or other custom IP. I am sure that limits their profits some.

Bolt Action 3rd edition was released today. So far some interesting changes. Some weapons have had ranges reviewed and there seem to be less modifiers in the game now. Overall I don’t think it will be that different, but force creation will be very interesting.

Can't get their app to work either in web or app form, not sure if it's just me. Was quite keen on getting in to have a look but will have to stick to easyarmy

I think the way they have selecting armoured vehicles is bat-poo

ok you only need to do it once, but what was wrong with a unit entry for say a Panzer VI-H instead of a generic one then "options"

apart from making it needlessly complicated this will lead to weird hybrid models with just the best options

also its a 28mm game, it shouldn't be all about armour and now you can spam armour

Haven't got the book and since I can hardly get a game lately I'm not intent on it, but the way you say they make vhl entries sounds like really pushing the gameplay over realism, which, seen from afar, doesn't sound outrageous to me as Bolt Action is still not a historical game in my book.

Probably opens up for strange stuff that'll need a FAQ somewhere down the line.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Haven't got the book and since I can hardly get a game lately I'm not intent on it, but the way you say they make vhl entries sounds like really pushing the gameplay over realism, which, seen from afar, doesn't sound outrageous to me as Bolt Action is still not a historical game in my book.

Probably opens up for strange stuff that'll need a FAQ somewhere down the line.

BA isn't historical, never really has been, its trying to be a decent game with a WW2 skin

its been described as the game of the film, of the book which was loosely based on WW2

the game of the film suits it well to be fair