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Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 12:43:14


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


How do!

A day of joyousness for 40K fans. Amazon/Cavill/GW deal finalised and going ahead, and a wee glimpse of things to come via Secret Level. No, I don’t think these events occuring on the same day is mere coincidence.

But here we’ll be discussing, if not outright frothing over Secret Level, because it really is that good.

Spoiler:
Animation is superb, and the violence is satisfying.

Seeing four of The Emperor’s finest reaction with precision brute force to just carve their way through grotty little Cultists was very pleasing. And one hopes the Bike riders may be a sign of models to come.

Speaking of models to come? How about that Tzeentch Sorceror thing. That was a beautiful design, and in terms of the story shows just how dangerous the followers of Chaos Gods can be, with the right blessings. Definite elements of Astartes in there though.

I genuinely didn’t think you could do the horror of Bolt weapons justice on the big or small screen and still getting a rating, but here we are!

Very very chuffed with it


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 13:32:15


Post by: Flinty


It did its job. As you say the animation and art style was great. Everything appropriately lore accurate, but it was all a bit too cliched for me. Now the Pac Man episode. That was some original nightmare fodder right there!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 14:57:35


Post by: Lathe Biosas


Ehhhh.... what is Secret Level?


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 15:17:16


Post by: LunarSol


 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Ehhhh.... what is Secret Level?


Its a collection of animation shorts on Amazon each focused on a different video game world. There's one for Space Marine 2 as well as some older stuff like Pac Man and Mega Man.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 15:21:19


Post by: BertBert


That melee sequence was perfect.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 15:29:48


Post by: Lathe Biosas


 LunarSol wrote:
 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Ehhhh.... what is Secret Level?


Its a collection of animation shorts on Amazon each focused on a different video game world. There's one for Space Marine 2 as well as some older stuff like Pac Man and Mega Man.


Cool, thanks...


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 15:48:43


Post by: Overread


Excellent short animation!

I wouldn't expect to see models - the bikes and trucks with humans angle is well covered by the Genestealer Cults already as a model theme. But we've known that the forces of Chaos use all kinds of whateve they can find to fight with so it really fits their style to have whatever they can as vehicles and weapons.

Spoiler:

The high quality animation and frame rate really allowed them to sell the super-human speed of motion of the Marines in combat. Something we don't honestly get to see much of since its hard to convey without it appearing cheap/tacky/wrong. Combat was satisfying and like a LOT of the animations we've seen over the last few years the atmospheric direction has been excellent.

You feel that dark gothic element all around the scenes with helps really paint a picture of the setting.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 16:23:44


Post by: pgmason


I must admit, I did chuckle at first when the Ultramarines were just walking through a dusty, foggy landscape. Reminded me of the previous Ultramarines movie.

I liked the way they moved methodically in combat, and were completely unbothered by the mortal cultists though.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 16:35:33


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


There’s a measured nature to their actions, and it reminds me of Dredd in, erm, Dredd. Absolute control, even when unleashing ludicrous violence.

Their movements aren’t slow or languid. They’re just not wasting effort with wild swings. When someone is in range? They make them go squish, and hard, with quick, efficient blows or swings etc. Like, really quick.

Spoiler:
My fave squishing is the headbutt. It’s just glorious.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 17:41:21


Post by: Flinty


On first watch I wasn’t sure they were moving fast enough, but in reflection, you are right in that they were moving just fast enough for the encounter.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 17:46:31


Post by: Gert


I thought the movement speed was very well done and gave us a solid reference point for Transhuman Dread.

Something that big and heavy shouldn't be able to move quickly and fluidly but it does, and that's terrifying.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 17:55:07


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Just watched that bit of it again, and yeah. It’s definitely unsettling.

Not faster than the eye can see and brain can process. But wicked fast all the same, with the bad guys going squelch with contemptuous ease.

Even when they’re shooting, you get an idea of their lethal accuracy. Every shot carefully placed, not a round going astray.

I’m also noting just how quiet the Astartes are. No grunts of effort, no battle cries. Just a surety of purpose which is even more unsettling.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 18:01:17


Post by: Overread


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I’m also noting just how quiet the Astartes are. No grunts of effort, no battle cries. Just a surety of purpose which is even more unsettling.


that's indeed a good point and something you often don't get. A lot of films/tv/games love to put sound to things. Heck Tyranids are roaring and screaming all over Space Marine 2 even though they are only supposed to scream when charging up to fire bioplasma in your face. Indeed lore wise its often made a point that all you hear is the thundering of hooves and the scrape of blades but no screams; cries or calls


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 18:07:53


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I hope if we get more in this particular vein, we might see a wider range of Astartes.

Just as a stoic Ultramarine being utterly silent apart from the whine of servos, gunfire and Chainsword is unsettling, having say, a Blood Claw going all frothing, howling loony is going to be pants filling - especially with just how loud a Space Marine and his armour can make said howls (they go up to twelve)

But good gravy this short was satisfying.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 18:24:40


Post by: Lathe Biosas


I guess I'll see it someday.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 18:26:56


Post by: FeistyRips


I watched it just now and I gotta say it blew me away. Finally, after years of silence following the canned Astartes project, we get something that does the amazing scale and epicness of the 40k setting justice. To be honest, I was looking for Syama Pederson's name everywhere in the credits because the style and quality just reminded me so much of his work.

I really loved the way they did the combat and the Space Marines in general. Everything just feels right, you can feel the weight of the suits and the impacts when they are fighting. My jaw dropped at the first sight of the gratuitous gore as I had fully expected this to be a rather PG13 experience to maximise marketability, but no. Apparently, they held nothing back, and I love them for that. Nothing like a good cultist massacre.The sound design is also really good and helps underline the carnage we see on screen.

Another thing I thought was really cool and creative was the fluorescent blood of the Tzaangors (if that is what they are called?). That created such an eerily beautiful scene and looked quite stunning imo.

One thing I would have liked to know was how they got out of that chasm before the orbital strike hit, but I guess for this short episode, we shouldn't expect too much in terms of story.

Anyways, sorry for my long rambling, but I'm just really pumped that this was a lot better than I had expected.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I’m also noting just how quiet the Astartes are. No grunts of effort, no battle cries. Just a surety of purpose which is even more unsettling.


I assume they were trying to emulate what the combat is like from an outside perspective, similar to what was done in Astartes. We only see the gestures and movements of the Marines, but we don't get to listen in on their vox frequency. They might well be grunting or giving orders to eachother in the heat of combat, but their sealed armor prevents their enemies (and us, as outside viewers) from hearing any of it. Just my assumption though...


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 18:34:41


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I guess I'll see it someday.


Hush now. Create a Burner email, get a Prime trial, and get this in your face holes.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 18:40:26


Post by: beast_gts


 FeistyRips wrote:
To be honest, I was looking for Syama Pederson's name everywhere in the credits because the style and quality just reminded me so much of his work.
17:05 - Layout Artist


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 18:41:06


Post by: Grimskul


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I guess I'll see it someday.


Hush now. Create a Burner email, get a Prime trial, and get this in your face holes.


I mean it's probably not that hard to find it on the high seas, especially since it's an Amazon show, couchtuner is likely to have it soon, I know it'll be uploaded soon to the discord server I follow where they upload the WH+ stuff.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 18:52:06


Post by: Overread


beast_gts wrote:
 FeistyRips wrote:
To be honest, I was looking for Syama Pederson's name everywhere in the credits because the style and quality just reminded me so much of his work.
17:05 - Layout Artist


Nice! I did think it reminded me a lot of Astartes in some aspects as well. Great to know the original creator was involved in this project!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 18:53:24


Post by: The Black Adder


beast_gts wrote:
 FeistyRips wrote:
To be honest, I was looking for Syama Pederson's name everywhere in the credits because the style and quality just reminded me so much of his work.
17:05 - Layout Artist


That doesn't surprise me. It has the same feel of stitched episodes, with an end to each encounter and then a flow into the next. I think they must have trawled Astartes for inspiration for their sound direction too.

If Pederson's style for animation/ movement of space marines and sound direction bleeds into other 40k projects I'll be very happy.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 18:55:26


Post by: The_Real_Chris


How does it compare to Astartes? Will be a while before I have access to a prime account.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 19:05:33


Post by: Overread


If you liked Astartes you'll like this.

Very similar style of storytelling


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 20:00:15


Post by: tauist


Improved production value indeed. I cannot help but to think how close this already was to something live action based. If hollywood fancies this aesthetic, we might see a lot more of it


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 20:08:21


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


It’s also set an important benchmark and precedent for the forthcoming shows.

As I think we might very well all agree, the level of violence was about nice. Not quite a gory as it could’ve been, but a good bit more visceral than I thought they could get away with. Though it probably helps there’s nothing especially lingering, or thanks to the nature of it particularly really real.

So, that’s the upside of the precedent now set.

The downside? Now we, The Audience, have a benchmark, and one I think we’re unanimous in being pleased with. Which means what follows must now be at least as good.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 20:15:27


Post by: Overread


 tauist wrote:
Improved production value indeed. I cannot help but to think how close this already was to something live action based. If hollywood fancies this aesthetic, we might see a lot more of it


Honestly I don't think we'll get Hollywood for a long time if never. One BIG difference between GW and a lot of other IP owners is that GW aren't going to just give a Hollywood director their IP to play with. GW wants to be full hands-on in the creative process and I can see a lot of bid studios not wanting that extra layer. Esp from a practiced company as opposed to a single author going through it for the first time.

I think the only way we'd get it is a LotR type deal where the director REALLY wants to do it and where they get a more hands-off approach from the suits to follow their creative vision and GW's.


Which is basically how you see a lot of the AAA style video game licences go. The teams behind Dawn of War/TW Warhammer and Space Marine didn't just want an IP to use; they specifically wanted the GW IP both from a "this is a good IP to use" and from a "we want to make this a GW game and work with GW through the creative process". Ergo they are willing for that extra layer of micro management from the IP holder when they don't have to have it (both firms had major IPs of their own and didn't "need" GW and their customers to be successful)


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 20:18:20


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Though if the Amazon series land well, that’s going to attract interest, and provide justification to GW’s hands-on requirement.

Though I do note this is Amazon/MGM Studios, so the prospect of a cinematic release is already closer than we might think.

Still a long way off, like. But that is a major studio already working with the IP, even if it might need to cough up more for a cinematic release.

Of course that may already be an option included in the existing licensing agreement. We’ll never know.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 20:22:07


Post by: Overread


Indeed GW have been smart - Warhammer+ helped justify that quality animations were a popular concept for them; it helped them lean into twisting the arm for Amazon and if the Amazon series do well then yep that could well lead onto bigger things!

Of course these things are going to take time - quite a lot of time so it might be 20 years before we see a major motion picture developed and released; but its still something that could be an actual reality


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 20:55:14


Post by: Tastyfish


The_Real_Chris wrote:
How does it compare to Astartes? Will be a while before I have access to a prime account.


It's Astartes with a higher budget against different enemies - with some shots and sounds almost explicitly calling back to that series. But rather than Traitor Guard imagine the poor mooks had come in from Mad Max: Fury Road and the boss from something scribbled in the corner of Guillermo del Toro's army list.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 21:35:18


Post by: ikeulhu


 Tastyfish wrote:
It's Astartes with a higher budget against different enemies - with some shots and sounds almost explicitly calling back to that series. But rather than Traitor Guard imagine the poor mooks had come in from Mad Max: Fury Road and the boss from something scribbled in the corner of Guillermo del Toro's army list.

This is an incredibly apt description.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 21:45:26


Post by: CorwinB


That was really well done.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 23:22:19


Post by: Nevelon


Yup, that was good.

It’s pretty much pure atmosphere and bolter porn. But it nails it. And for a short, that’s all I expect.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/10 23:55:35


Post by: Lathe Biosas


Astartes? I've never seen that either.

Is there anything else I need to watch (40k related) released on the last decade, while I was out of the hobby?


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 00:04:41


Post by: FeistyRips


 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Astartes? I've never seen that either.

Is there anything else I need to watch (40k related) released on the last decade, while I was out of the hobby?


Man, you are in for a treat, getting to see two great animations at once! There should be a 4k compilation of all parts of the "Astartes" project on youtube. Just search for it, should pop up right away. Enjoy!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 00:14:15


Post by: Overread


Or Join Warhammer+ on the Warhammer website and then you can to to WarhammerTV and see all the shows they have in one spot like Bolter and Chainsword


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 00:20:30


Post by: TheChrispyOne


Ah, GW going with the ole "put some Tzangors in there, people will love it!". Well, the glowing blood/gore stuff was cool visually, but James Workshop- break the 40k Tzangor moulds and call it a loss already!
But, once again great to see a realistic view of what Space marines and their weapons can do to "normie" humans. Essentially a bolt is a small rocket, so the "blink and you mist the cultist" was peak.
Now Superman needs to light a fire under Amazon studios collective butts and get them working!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 01:34:38


Post by: Olthannon


Great little short. I think interesting enough for people who don't know Warhammer to be intrigued. The mystery was just tantalising enough.

I think my issue for the eventual show is that Space Marines are just too dull for a television series. You want a couple of them in there but not the whole thing.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 01:39:39


Post by: Overread


Too Dull?

They run around in massive suits of armour fighting literal demons; hellish xenos; vile witches; monsters from the warp AND they get to do so with guns that fire rocks for bullets.



Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 02:18:25


Post by: Hellebore


 Overread wrote:
Too Dull?

They run around in massive suits of armour fighting literal demons; hellish xenos; vile witches; monsters from the warp AND they get to do so with guns that fire rocks for bullets.



Which is fun for a few minutes a but a whole movie/tv show of that is going to be boring to the average viewer (and plenty of 40k fans). 40k will fail if it tries to make its film ventures act like the wargame. No shows about war have been solely about the battles, and the space marines are specifically 95% just battles, it's all they do. They don't really do character development and there is no struggle especially if you're going down the bolter porn route where they're just ganking mobs in endless waves.

even when looking at the 40k novels that are called bolter porn, the proportion of them that are just pages of killing monsters in cool ways isn't as big as it might appear. It's just the filler between the battles is pretty thin so the porn part is really all anyone remembers.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 02:23:08


Post by: Lathe Biosas


That's why I think people enjoy the tales of Witchhunters and Inquisitors so much. You have the power fantasy of "everyone has to listen to me," without being superman.



Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 03:06:30


Post by: Olthannon


Yep, Hellebore answered that perfectly. The eventual 40k show cannot be just an extension of that short for 12 episodes or it will be dreadful.

What makes good television? Character, plot, human interest. Space Marines don't really have character or human interest.

Space Marines will look their best as inhuman angels of death. But to do so, the regular action has to be from a human perspective to better show off their might.

Is Band of Brothers just about E Company dropping on D Day and their subsequent battles until the end of the war? Or is it about a group of men from all walks of life held together by bonds of brotherhood forged by the carnage of war that changed them for the rest of their lives?



Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 03:07:01


Post by: Nevelon


 Lathe Biosas wrote:
That's why I think people enjoy the tales of Witchhunters and Inquisitors so much. You have the power fantasy of "everyone has to listen to me," without being superman.



Also, plots, mysteries, character development, and stuff like that. Not everything is power fantasy. Witchhunters and inquisitors are good with figuring out the who/what/when/whys, and interacting with other characters with some level of subtly. They make for more interesting protagonists. Marines are great at solving problems with extreme violence. And look cool doing it.

For longer works you need more to hold it together. For short bits you can just have a few cool action sequences and roll with that.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 03:34:05


Post by: Hellebore


 Olthannon wrote:
Yep, Hellebore answered that perfectly. The eventual 40k show cannot be just an extension of that short for 12 episodes or it will be dreadful.

What makes good television? Character, plot, human interest. Space Marines don't really have character or human interest.

Space Marines will look their best as inhuman angels of death. But to do so, the regular action has to be from a human perspective to better show off their might.

Is Band of Brothers just about E Company dropping on D Day and their subsequent battles until the end of the war? Or is it about a group of men from all walks of life held together by bonds of brotherhood forged by the carnage of war that changed them for the rest of their lives?



This exactly, I was thinking of BoB when I was replying actually. But it goes for Game of Thrones, and every other war movie/tv show.

The 3rd person view point of a space marine is exactly the best way to show their OP awesomeness, at first person you lose the sense of wonder. You need to be seeing them through the eyes of the guardsman in the SP2 trailer that said 'his angels' as they walked past.

Eisenhorn is one of the few novels where they did this well, as the marines only come in at the end and we see them through Eisenhorn's eyes. the story never becomes a space marine story, it remains Eisenhorn's and we see the size and power of a marine that way.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 05:50:56


Post by: AduroT


1.) 40k
2.) Unreal Tournament
3.) Armored Core
4.) Sifu
5.) Crossfire
6.) Pac-Man
7.) D&D
8.) New World


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 12:03:24


Post by: The_Real_Chris


 Olthannon wrote:

What makes good television? Character, plot, human interest. Space Marines don't really have character or human interest.

Space Marines will look their best as inhuman angels of death. But to do so, the regular action has to be from a human perspective to better show off their might.


They are the Penguins of 40k!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 12:33:25


Post by: Nevelon


 AduroT wrote:
1.) 40k
2.) Unreal Tournament
3.) Armored Core
4.) Sifu
5.) Crossfire
6.) Pac-Man
7.) D&D
8.) New World


I’d have to rewatch it to maybe quibble over swapping a few, but I broadly agree with this ranking. Maybe bump Pac-Man up for the sheer WTF nature of it. But I enjoyed even the ones at the bottom of the list. Some were better, but nothing was bad IMHO. Worth the watch all around.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 12:38:23


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Crossfire left me cold, as there wasn’t anything particularly innovative about the tale. The animation was genuinely stunning though.



Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 16:11:30


Post by: tauist


Marines too dull for a movie you say?

Personally, I thought Helsreach was, and still is, the GOAT of all 40K movies.. and Marines were its main characters. Unlike this "game show" episode about a video game where you shoot at stuff, Helsreach managed to tell some sort of story even if it was basically just about fighting

And just in case you've never watched Helsreach.. It's mandatory watching in my book




Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 16:38:46


Post by: The_Real_Chris


I think it does a reasonably good attempt at making the constant fighting be in the background as much as possible.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 16:46:17


Post by: Overread


I think anyone who says that Marines are just Bolter Porn and nothing else has kind of only looked at marines on the battlefield. If you read the lore or look into some of the longer videos/animations there are loads of periods of deadtime between fights where they are talking; discussion or having revelations and progressions and developments of Character.

Just look at Space Marine and Dawn of War games - games that are very much 100% ALL action during the core gameplay. They still feature development, changes and talking. Heck Space Marine even has loads of neat background chatter.


Marines 100% can be central to the story; they are not all dreadnought which are only turned on for combat and then turned off at the end. Heck you can do a lot of silent storytelling with them too - monastic praying; suiting up and desuiting their armour and more can be big moments outside of battle.


Thinking of marines as only bolterporn is ignoring everything else of them and boiling them down to a very simplistic view.
It's a little like the whole "there's only 7 stories in the world" kind of arguments where stories are whittled down to their very simplistic core elements.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 17:42:28


Post by: LunarSol


I'll repeat my thoughts here:

Spoiler:
I watched the half of Secret Level for games I was excited for. Overall its all kind of grimdark, which kind of has a numbing effect that dilutes the stuff that is supposed to be grimdark. It's possible the ones I skipped break things up with more color, but judging by the thumbnails I doubt it. Anyway, on to the reviews in the order I watched them:

Space Marine

It's 40k and its well done. It doesn't offer anything fresh for existing fans, nor does it provide a hint of context for non fans, but its very well done and the art style of the series fits it well.

Armored Core

This is easily my favorite of the 4. Another setting that fits the style well and they really nailed the way the mechs move and fight. Had a story, though it'd be nice if there was a moment where he gets the job to hammer home the mercenary nature of it. Again, I fear if you don't know the games its all kind of obtuse, but it worked for me in a way not even Space Marine did.

Pac-Man

This was always going to be a mess but oh what a mess it is. Somehow its the most silly edgelord nonsense of the bunch and also the most corny and full of dumb references. All I could think of was Bomberman: Act Zero and every terrible dark reboot of the late 2000s. This was too cringy to laugh at.

D&D

This one had some color towards the end and overall was pretty solid. The opening had all the hallmarks of the others, hiding everything in shadows, probably for budget reasons. The end built to a pretty triumphant feeling hero moment and while I wasn't invested in the story it started capturing the setting well.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 20:02:12


Post by: BrookM


It was fun overall, some of these games I've never heard of but all in all, this first batch isn't all that bad.

Armoured Core was pretty good, not sure what was going on, but heh, Keanu Reeves being a strung out waste of a human being with a voice in his head was a nice call-back to cyberpunk alright.

And yes, the Space Marine short is amazing, the direction they went with, strong visuals, almost zero dialogue, amazing. Also great to see the influences of Astartes in style and combat flow, showing just how much power and restraint they have with their moves. Not sure if that little tap of the axe to reverse the grip or the post-auto pistol to the face head butt is the best part of it all.

edit.

Oh yeah, the Unreal Tournament one was also really good, maybe because just because of the announcer unlocking some core memory of a young me playing the OG Unreal Tournament aeons ago.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 20:59:06


Post by: Overread


The UT one is great if just because they went with the freaking UT Demo map AND the Facing maps and even have a "no camping" comment buried in there. It's one of those things that feels like its made by fans who understood the game and put some classic nostalgia in there.

Heck they even focus on THE BEST gun of the original game that never came back again - the Ripper!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 21:10:15


Post by: LunarSol


 BrookM wrote:
Armoured Core was pretty good, not sure what was going on, but heh, Keanu Reeves being a strung out waste of a human being with a voice in his head was a nice call-back to cyberpunk alright.


Armored Core is a FromSoft franchise, so while there's a lot to the world, there's not a lot of story. For the most part, you are always a mercenary mech pilot taking jobs from rival MegaCorps. You pick the jobs you want to take, take out the targets you're ordered to and use the cash you earn on repairs and new parts for your mech. Happy to chat this one up if you're curious.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 21:51:48


Post by: Olthannon


 Overread wrote:
I think anyone who says that Marines are just Bolter Porn and nothing else has kind of only looked at marines on the battlefield.


Great for games, just they will make a terrible terrible TV show. A TV show that will also be designed to grow an audience and hopefully get new people interested in the tabletop. Space Marines will look excellent as aloof side characters, but they can't be the central purpose.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 22:08:06


Post by: BrookM


 LunarSol wrote:
 BrookM wrote:
Armoured Core was pretty good, not sure what was going on, but heh, Keanu Reeves being a strung out waste of a human being with a voice in his head was a nice call-back to cyberpunk alright.


Armored Core is a FromSoft franchise, so while there's a lot to the world, there's not a lot of story. For the most part, you are always a mercenary mech pilot taking jobs from rival MegaCorps. You pick the jobs you want to take, take out the targets you're ordered to and use the cash you earn on repairs and new parts for your mech. Happy to chat this one up if you're curious.
Heh, seems I was not far off from the joke I made when the Keanu trailer dropped: "Wake the feth up 621, we got money to make."

I've been sitting on AC6 for a long time now haha, still need to beat that fluffing chopper in the first mission. 😅

 Olthannon wrote:
 Overread wrote:
I think anyone who says that Marines are just Bolter Porn and nothing else has kind of only looked at marines on the battlefield.


Great for games, just they will make a terrible terrible TV show. A TV show that will also be designed to grow an audience and hopefully get new people interested in the tabletop. Space Marines will look excellent as aloof side characters, but they can't be the central purpose.
A book like Brothers of the Snake would beg to differ, but YMMV.






In general, I feel anything would go for 40k media, as long as it is cool enough, because that's what's been going on for a long time now: tell a story and let the audience figure it out for their selves what all that weird gak is. I've been watching a fair share of people not familiar with the hobby reacting to the games and the shows and when it catches their interest, they will do these amazing deepdives, via chat or lore videos. The cherubs in Space Marine 2 in particular have been great catalysts haha!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 22:08:33


Post by: AduroT


Unreal Tournament was a Very close second after Space Marines. I think it told the best story out of all the shows, and the visuals and references were great. It only loses out because of the insanely awesome Marines Vs Cultists scene.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/11 23:09:31


Post by: LunarSol


 BrookM wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
 BrookM wrote:
Armoured Core was pretty good, not sure what was going on, but heh, Keanu Reeves being a strung out waste of a human being with a voice in his head was a nice call-back to cyberpunk alright.


Armored Core is a FromSoft franchise, so while there's a lot to the world, there's not a lot of story. For the most part, you are always a mercenary mech pilot taking jobs from rival MegaCorps. You pick the jobs you want to take, take out the targets you're ordered to and use the cash you earn on repairs and new parts for your mech. Happy to chat this one up if you're curious.
Heh, seems I was not far off from the joke I made when the Keanu trailer dropped: "Wake the feth up 621, we got money to make."

I've been sitting on AC6 for a long time now haha, still need to beat that fluffing chopper in the first mission. 😅


Yeah, that thing is mean as a tutorial boss. The worst part about it is that after you lose the first time, your natural instinct is to play it safe and keep your distance, but that's where its strongest and you will be severely punished for it. It leads to this odd loop where you feel like you did better on your first try and aren't getting any better on following attempts. Later bosses you can build your mech to counter, but you're stuck with the stock model for the chopper.

The main trick is to use the overboost to stay close to it. Whenever it tries to get away from you, boost to give chase. You also need to learn how the stagger works because it doesn't take any real damage until you break its poise. You can't really chip it down which is also why it feels harder when you try to hide from it. You need to dump as much damage as you can in bursts.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 00:14:00


Post by: ProtoClone


 Flinty wrote:
It did its job. As you say the animation and art style was great. Everything appropriately lore accurate, but it was all a bit too cliched for me. Now the Pac Man episode. That was some original nightmare fodder right there!


Yeah that Pac-Man episode was really creative and dark.

I liked the 40k story for what it was, a great intro to 40k if you are still unaware of 40k.
Glad to see Pederson (If I remember his name correctly) was a part of this. His influence can be seen throughout the entire episode and that's not a bad thing.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 12:36:18


Post by: Geifer


The 40k episode sure is pretty to look at. I like the part about the guy walking his pet box the most. Not sure about the story. Less sure about the end.

Not that I'm complaining. There's only so much you can do in fifteen minutes.

 LunarSol wrote:
I'll repeat my thoughts here:

Spoiler:
I watched the half of Secret Level for games I was excited for. Overall its all kind of grimdark, which kind of has a numbing effect that dilutes the stuff that is supposed to be grimdark. It's possible the ones I skipped break things up with more color, but judging by the thumbnails I doubt it. Anyway, on to the reviews in the order I watched them:

Space Marine

It's 40k and its well done. It doesn't offer anything fresh for existing fans, nor does it provide a hint of context for non fans, but its very well done and the art style of the series fits it well.

Armored Core

This is easily my favorite of the 4. Another setting that fits the style well and they really nailed the way the mechs move and fight. Had a story, though it'd be nice if there was a moment where he gets the job to hammer home the mercenary nature of it. Again, I fear if you don't know the games its all kind of obtuse, but it worked for me in a way not even Space Marine did.

Pac-Man

This was always going to be a mess but oh what a mess it is. Somehow its the most silly edgelord nonsense of the bunch and also the most corny and full of dumb references. All I could think of was Bomberman: Act Zero and every terrible dark reboot of the late 2000s. This was too cringy to laugh at.

D&D

This one had some color towards the end and overall was pretty solid. The opening had all the hallmarks of the others, hiding everything in shadows, probably for budget reasons. The end built to a pretty triumphant feeling hero moment and while I wasn't invested in the story it started capturing the setting well.


I liked the New World one best, not the least because it was funny and brighter than the others. It definitely stands out from the rest of this batch and if the dreary dark and somberly serious nature of the others doesn't agree with you, New World just might.

With regard to the edgelordiest of them all, I didn't even know Pacman has a story, let alone something like this. I guess I missed several decades of development.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 13:11:43


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


PAC-man had a cartoon, and a platformer arcade game!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 16:55:59


Post by: Lathe Biosas


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
PAC-man had a cartoon, and a platformer arcade game!


...which haunt my dreams until this very day.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 17:01:08


Post by: Nevelon


 Lathe Biosas wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
PAC-man had a cartoon, and a platformer arcade game!


...which haunt my dreams until this very day.


Haunt you like Inky, Blinky, Pinky, and Clyde?


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 17:02:01


Post by: LunarSol


Also a weird point and click adventure as the official sequel where you have to manage his emotions.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 17:06:57


Post by: Lathe Biosas


 LunarSol wrote:
Also a weird point and click adventure as the official sequel where you have to manage his emotions.


I'm glad I don't remember this.


And as for haunting, I remember one of my buddies in high school that had a girlfriend names Sue. We always wanted to see if she would wear orange like her Ms. Pac Man counterpart... never did.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 17:56:08


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Also alsö

Now a bunch of people have seen it?

If we don’t get that Tzeentchian abomination as a model? I’m gonna make like a young, maximum irritation Bonnie Langford and thcweam and tchweam and thcweam until I sick


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 18:18:16


Post by: Flinty


The real question though is open or closed


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 18:19:13


Post by: Geifer


Since GW is usually good with head options, both.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 18:19:18


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Both. Duh.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 21:26:58


Post by: Overread


*sits in the corner waiting for those sweet Exodites models to be released after they got a video first!*





even though they technically didn't really show much if any of what makes the Exodites stand out from regular eldar... but still darn it they got there first!!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 22:19:24


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Right.

Look, you.

You..you….you…just take your “facts”, right? And you shove them right where the sun doesn’t shine.

Yeah. Good and deep under your pillow!

Only a non-scrot grexnix relies purely on facts.

Probably. I mean, I can’t prove that.



Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 22:26:31


Post by: Lathe Biosas


Gah... I just got had to do a deep dive on the IT crowd to read your last post.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 22:36:09


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Well you dived into entirely the wrong cultural bins for that one!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/12 22:42:55


Post by: Lathe Biosas




Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/13 12:38:23


Post by: MarkNorfolk


Well, that was dull. Stomp, stomp. Bang, slice. It was reminiscent of Astarte, and not in a good way.

Spoiler:
The psyker in a box was the only interesting bit


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/13 16:12:42


Post by: LunarSol


So.... that Pac-Man nonsense was announced as a real game last night.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/13 18:41:06


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


It…what?


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/13 18:48:16


Post by: Overread







Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/13 18:53:50


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Oh.

I mean.

Yay? Perhaps?


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/13 19:12:34


Post by: Lathe Biosas



More excited about PacMan than 40k?



Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/13 23:16:17


Post by: Flinty


Hmm I was more excited about it when I thought it was an interesting and original take on a story less game, rather than the harbinger of an RPG.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/15 12:34:20


Post by: BrookM


In case anybody missed it, I know I did, the second half of the content will drop on the 17th, with the following games:

Concord
Exodus
Honor of Kings
Mega Man
PlayStation
Spelunky
The Outer Worlds 2


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/17 20:08:41


Post by: BrookM


Secret Level has been renewed for a second season, wahey!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/18 00:04:21


Post by: Flinty


Hmm. I did t like the second half as much as the first. Animation was all great, but the stories didn't grab me as ,much. Except the Outer Worlds one. That was awesome


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/18 00:09:56


Post by: Overread


Seen 3 of them so far - both Outerworlds and Exodus were great and Exodus made good use of narration to help the story along; esp considering the short timespans. It's actually about the longest story we've had so far in terms of the length of time it covers within the world.

Megaman was neat, but its very very much a "first episode" kind of deal. Very cool but also just leaves you wanting to see where it goes. Which fits as its one of the 8min long videos so very short.



Honestly I think that's something to keep in mind, even the long ones are only just 19min and that includes the intro and outro. There's talent here in just compressing down stories into frames that small.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/18 14:20:30


Post by: LunarSol


Mega Man was definitely a lot of nothing. The very basic story told a million times with an uncanny art style that isn't the worst attempt to Americanize the character, but still not particularly charming. The visor on the helmet was particularly off and they didn't have a very good answer to the arm cannon problem that has always limited the character in animation. Wasn't bad, just one I was looking forward to and it was incredibly bare bones. They didn't even use the correct boss weakness.

It does get props for the music though. Nicely mixed in the classic theme and the use of the teleporter to start was nicely done.

Unreal Tournament was pretty good. Definitely one of the top 3 for me. Not sure how many more I'm excited to see though.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/18 14:51:28


Post by: Lathe Biosas


Are these episodes a one-and-done type of thing? Or will they have continuations?


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/18 14:54:31


Post by: Overread


One-And-Done as far as we know

Games Workshop are one of the few that we know are still producing their own animations. Many of the others are unlikely to follow.


Now who knows perhaps if any of the episodes do really well and the team behind them gets enough funding and the right licence agreement - who knows we might see one or two commissioned for a proper season


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/18 15:00:12


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Seems a second season has been commissioned. But whether that will be second helpings of the same properties, I’ve no clue.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/19 07:00:24


Post by: AduroT


Second batch was mediocre overall. Not bad, but nothing as engaging as the best ones from the first half. Megaman was definitely too short and needs more.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/19 10:02:38


Post by: Geifer


I watched the second batch more for the sake of completion. I don't know most of the games in this season and haven't played anything from the second batch. Most of it ended with "I don't get it". The last one was "what the feth did I just watch" instead.

And with regard to the last one, I think I'm getting old. Total sensory overload there with no time to take anything in. Nothing more than a blur of babbling and colors and unceasing motion. That one was clearly made for kids on a sugar high.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/19 13:30:54


Post by: Flinty


I think the moral of the last one is just to play stuff that gives you joy, rather than grinding games that are effectively second jobs. EVE online for instance


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/19 14:03:40


Post by: BrookM


I agree with that sentiment and it was a nice showcase of some of Sony's better titles. Of the second batch, I only really liked the Outer Worlds one, as it nailed the tone and feel of the game to a T.

But as is, in no particular order, my personal top three still are Armoured Core, Unreal Tournament and Space Marine, probably because they did their homework best, but YMMV.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/19 14:38:37


Post by: LunarSol


 BrookM wrote:

But as is, in no particular order, my personal top three still are Armoured Core, Unreal Tournament and Space Marine, probably because they did their homework best, but YMMV.


Haven't watched them all, but these are my top 3 for sure. It helps that the art style fits their settings well too.


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/02 01:16:20


Post by: Overread


Second wave was very cool!

I think the only one that felt a little lacking from the whole set is the Megaman one and in part that's because they only had 8mins to really show something so its a very quick origin story.

I think also some of the "second wave aren't as good" might come from the fact that many of them were based on newer titles. They don't have 20-30-40 years of nostalgia behind them. In fact one was totally new (spaceship with time-differences in travel) and at least one (Concord) is based on a game that came and vanished in moments.

The last one is just a load of fun and at the same time feels like a message to developer CEO's
Loved that one of the elements they chose was from SotC!

Overall great fun, there's a lot of charm in the series especially considering they have tiny windows to tell stories in. I'd love to see anyone of them fleshed out into a fuller more detailed series and heck I'd be thrilled to see more little series from another season.


Good fun all round


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/20 20:44:41


Post by: Lathe Biosas


 Flinty wrote:
I think the moral of the last one is just to play stuff that gives you joy, rather than grinding games that are effectively second jobs. EVE online for instance


I used to make money playing EVE online. Send me 500.000 isk and I'll tell you how!


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/20 20:46:31


Post by: Mr Morden


 Overread wrote:
Second wave was very cool!

I think the only one that felt a little lacking from the whole set is the Megaman one and in part that's because they only had 8mins to really show something so its a very quick origin story.

I think also some of the "second wave aren't as good" might come from the fact that many of them were based on newer titles. They don't have 20-30-40 years of nostalgia behind them. In fact one was totally new (spaceship with time-differences in travel) and at least one (Concord) is based on a game that came and vanished in moments.

The last one is just a load of fun and at the same time feels like a message to developer CEO's
Loved that one of the elements they chose was from SotC!

Overall great fun, there's a lot of charm in the series especially considering they have tiny windows to tell stories in. I'd love to see anyone of them fleshed out into a fuller more detailed series and heck I'd be thrilled to see more little series from another season.

Good fun all round


I would agree with that wholeheartedly - I enjoyed the characters and stories and would also like to see them continued.

I even enjoyed the Pac Man one


Secret Level 40K Episode - spoilers ahoy!  @ 2024/12/26 05:16:25


Post by: nels1031


Loved the 40K episode(of course). One thing that I really liked in the 40K episode was when Titus ran forward to take out the vehicle, Sergeant Metaurus looked back at the psyker case like “wtf, your supposed to be carrying that.” Then Metauris hands it back silently with the look of “Don’t let go of this again”.

Probably reading into it too much, but I thought that was a nice detail about how unorthodox Titus can be. They probably would’ve figured out how to take out the vehicle as a team, but Titus went full Leroy Jenkins.

I resisted buying Space Marine mini’s after playing the heck out of SM2, but this episode has got me looking to purchase something to convert up and paint…