That's OK pie... no problem. :-) Would love a black marine in the mix!

I highlighted him and he's almost done, so i'll probably post a picture of him tomorrow

That's great Pie, please do!


Sorry for the general lack of updates... I have had no opportunity to work on anything for the past week, and probably won't until Saturday night. Life happens sometimes.

Gits

Still its only a hobby! Lifes gotta take priority. I dont doubt that when i finally get round to doing my rogue trader imperial blog it will have some pretty big time gaps.

Really looking forward to seeing the next lot though. You mantis warriors have been my favourite blog so far

Life? what is this "life" you speak of?

weetyskemian44 wrote:Still its only a hobby! Lifes gotta take priority. I dont doubt that when i finally get round to doing my rogue trader imperial blog it will have some pretty big time gaps.

Really looking forward to seeing the next lot though. You mantis warriors have been my favourite blog so far

Thanks weety, wish I could move along faster... both to keep the blog more interesting *and* to keep my army developing, but you can only do what you can if you have other priorities in life. I will send whalemusic's marines off today, and I hope to finish up porkuslime's demon objective marker done on Saturday so I can get his 3 pieces shipped by Monday... so that's two off my list.

I've been mulling something over and I thought I'd put it out for comment. In the midst of completely re-building my chapter... I still have all of my old figures. These are the original plastic beakies, as well as a number of metal figures from that same era. They're decently painted (tabletop for 20 years ago), but nothing to shout about... certainly not worthy of a normal straight-up trade, which is why I'm not mentioning this on the marine swap thread. Anyway, I was going to keep one full squad for nostalgia's sake... but I don't know what to do with the rest. I was wondering if anyone would be interested in them... either as trades or just promising to give them a good home.

While I won't re-paint them (as it would kind of defeat the purpose), I will go over them and clean them up, improve the paint jobs using simple techniques as I can. I don't want anyone to feel that they're getting junk... but they aren't up to my current standards. They'd be mostly regular bolter armed marines... have to wait until tomorrow before I can really sit down with them & sort them out. These are however, hardened veterans and have seen over a hundred battles over the years... most have hand-painted insignia on their shoulder pads.

If there's any interest at all I'll post a pic.

- Gits

Well, they'd get a good home here! I imagine I'll keep them for the nephews to use when they come play, and mine when they get older (daddy ain't for sharin').

I'll ask a few people I know that are thinking of playing but dont want to drop mad $$$. Might be a good way to push someone into some plastic crack.

Just keep in mind I don't have dozens of them... perhaps enough for two sqads with some odds and ends. I'll know more later.

Sorry for not being clear and getting hopes up... what I'm guessing I have are perhaps 15 tactical marines, mostly plastic but some metal, with a few odd heavy weapons and sergeant figures. All very OOP, decently painted but nothing more. Perhaps enough to make two squads of Mantis Warriors. I'm not getting rid of all of my old stuff, just looking for a home for some of my "legacy" MW's. They had a very unique paint job that I haven't had much luck duplicating (I had a bottle of metallic green that separated, leaving a translucent green lacquer on top... the "glow" of the lacquer has long since faded, but the color is still rather unique).

So, not enough to really get a new player started on an army... but enough to have an "old school" squad to goof around with... or maybe for you younger guys to actually have an example of where 40k started as compared to where it is now.

I am very interested. post pics! Certainly want to see them anyways. Too many of those old plastics you get on ebay are smothered in paint and half melted with plastic glue so I'd love to see some decently painted ones for sale

Maybe it'll inspire someone to start their own MW Army. I know this blog has definitly done wonders for bringing this chapter back into the Emperors graces. Heck I even painted a MW ( though he's been dead and sitting in a chair ) : )

Gitsplitta wrote:That's very cool Lenny, thanks. Yeah, if you can leave the weapon loose, I can paint up a melta gun or flamer and swap them out as needed. That is unless someone else really wants to do a special weapon marine, in which case I'll have separate figures with different load-outs.

if this is still open i would love to make a marine for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
or a regular marine for that matter

Sure Sageheart! I had you on my mental "list", if not the actual one. I still need a few regularly armed bolter marines, would be delighted to have you pitch in. Have you settled on a chapter yet?

yay! exciting! yea i do. i have my yellow sons of luther, and blue sons of Talidha.

anything in particular you want? no right shoulder so you can put death watch on it, and any thing else?

Hmmmm.... those both sound great! I have special shoulder pads and bolt guns for the deathwatch. I would prefer that you leave the right shoulder pad off so I can put on the deathwatch pad, the bolter is optional. So you can use one of your own if you'd like... but the deathwatch bolters are pretty cool, so if you want me to add that along with the pad, that's fine... just leave the bolt gun off the model. You're welcome to "dress up" the model as much as you like... these are marines on a special mission to assure the purity of intent of the Mantis Warriors after all, just don't give him any war gear that would be confusing to an opponent.

Both of those color schemes are great. Just do the one you feel inspired to do at the moment... it'll turn out the best. You'll have to let me know what you want from me in return. I can make a Mantis Warrior for you, or a custom objective marker if you'd prefer... I'm pretty good at those (at least I've had a lot of practice lately).

Automatically Appended Next Post:


Update!


O.K., so... remember when I told you they were painted "nicely".... I lied.

...


Remember when I told you that they were painted "reasonably well"... I lied.


...



Well, I suppose "lie" is too strong a word as it implies I purposefully misled you. IN MY MIND these figures were painted reasonably well... and I suppose for 20 years ago with no help or guidance they were (they compared favorably to everyone else's at the time). But they're not really painted well. Sorry.

So here we are... decided to put 3 units together.

First the tac squad: 10 man with melta and heavy bolter.


Second, the dev squad with multi-melta, conversion beamer (which I used as a plasma cannon), and believe it or not... a very weird rocket launch and las cannon. They came out with this really wierd little run of armor varients once... this is most of them though I have two more acting as my sniper scout sergeants.


Lastly, my assault squad, cobbled together from bits and pieces at a time when I have no money & when you could have a lot more plasma pistols in a squad.


Edited out all the babble... Please let me know if you're interested. If you want to trade something for a squad, I still need a couple of tac marines for my Deathwatch squad, but it's not necessary.

Thanks all...

Gits

They are pretty good I think. A bit shiny but you can blame the paints for that. I would make you an offer but i just noticed you live in the US of A and thats going to make postage expensive

Gitsplitta wrote:Hmmmm.... those both sound great! I have special shoulder pads and bolt guns for the deathwatch. I would prefer that you leave the right shoulder pad off so I can put on the deathwatch pad, the bolter is optional. So you can use one of your own if you'd like... but the deathwatch bolters are pretty cool, so if you want me to add that along with the pad, that's fine... just leave the bolt gun off the model. You're welcome to "dress up" the model as much as you like... these are marines on a special mission to assure the purity of intent of the Mantis Warriors after all, just don't give him any war gear that would be confusing to an opponent.

Both of those color schemes are great. Just do the one you feel inspired to do at the moment... it'll turn out the best. You'll have to let me know what you want from me in return. I can make a Mantis Warrior for you, or a custom objective marker if you'd prefer... I'm pretty good at those (at least I've had a lot of practice lately).

i would like to use one of my bolters. just since it feels wrong to leave a marine without a weapon. ill leave the right shoulder off. i will def dress up the model. i dont know what color ill do we will see

i would like a mantis warrior with a bolter, special weapon, or heavy weapon, whatever is easiest for you. i have enough sergs at the moment.

No problem!

Always good to see more old school Marines!

My lone box of 10 Tac Marines awaits assembly...

Git I'd definitely take the assault boys off your hands they'd fit right in to my assault force. What would you want for them? Trade or $$$?

Len, would you take them in exchange for that nice marine you're making me?

I certainly would Git, but I'll add in some other stuff to sweeten the deal for you.

That's fine! I've always had a sweet tooth! *grin*

I'll set them aside for you. Thanks!



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All the old Mantis Warrior units have been spoken for. That you my friends for giving my first army new homes.

Next update.... more progress on the venerable dread.

Hey Git here is work so far on your plasma marine, Mac.




They aren't great cos of the lighting but I shall endeavour to get some better one tomorrow when the sun is out (yes that does occasionally happen here in the UK).

Hey Git guess what

After one week of sweating liters of liquid, having my toenails grow by 7 inches(not really, but for the sakes of it sounding gross..) and almost puke my brains out(yeah, I got some flue and didn't cut my toenails for some time..)...

I have finished your marine! I'll put up pictures of him late tonight or tomorrow, depending on the time dad comes home with his camera

@Lennysmash: Looking good! Anticipation for our trade is rising...

Sweet Len... really like it!

gretar: Can't wait to see him! Tell your dad you miss him and he needs to hurry home!

Gitsplitta wrote:Sweet Len... really like it!

gretar: Can't wait to see him! Tell your dad you miss him and he needs to hurry home!

I'm to old for that and I dont have any change to pay my brother to do it

LOL!

got a marine for you!

here are some pics, posted them on the marine swap thread, but willl put them here too! they are blurry pics, will try to get better ones morrow!






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do you want me to base it?

Sage your painting really is improving with every mini you do, nice work dude.

As I said on another thread... he's terrific Sage. Len has the right of it, you're getting better with every mini.

Git.. you still looking for basic troopers to fill out a squad? I have 2 spare Get of Freki you can have...

Yeah... that would be great! Thanks!

thank you! (blush)

Don't blush... PAINT! *cracks the whip*

I have just spent the better part of 15mins scrolling through your thread for the posts on your colour tests and you chapter symbols. Its not on Git I demand a contents page to this monster this instant......... only joking but it was a bit of a mission. Anyway just have your man's plasma rifle to do and then he'll be getting the first Thunderhawk heading your way Gits.

Gitsplitta wrote:Don't blush... PAINT! *cracks the whip*

Yeah GIT, if anyone needs the whip to be cracked its you! Maybe you should spend less time on the forums and more time painting! lol.

LOL guilty as charged...

Holy crap my Mantis Warriors actually WON a real battle... against an adult! Never thought I'd see the day.

Actually kind of a "perfect storm" of things went right for me. Took lots of photos, battle report to follow when my friend and I sort out the details.

Gits

Nice to hear!!! See, fluffy forces can work out!!! Congrats!

So, you guys all know that my P&M blogs are more than just P&M... they're kind of the whole enchilada as it relates to my various armies. Plus I'm not quite up to haveing the best generals on dakka tear my military competence a new one by posting a separate thread in the battle reports section. So, for your entertainment... a battle report featuring the "Mantis Warriors Penitent" (which is what I've decided just now to call them since their return to the Imperium).

Had a great game last night with a friend from my FLGS who has a very nicely painted Chaos Demon army. He's a dakkaite too, "Nerf". He was coming out to pick up an old TV of mine for his video gaming "master plan" and suggested that since he made the trip we might get a game in. We're both preparing for the finals of a tournament in October that we both qualified for earlier this year, so I jumped at the opportunity. I hadn't played an adult for 2 months or so... so I was a bit nervous. OH, and before you get too excited we both qualified for our painting skills... NOT our playing skills! (kind of a neat tournament idea... we can talk about that later if you're curious).

I'd hoped to work with him on this batrep, but since I have "momentum" and everything is fresh in my mind... I'm running with it. I will however, update this post as I get feedback from my friend and will let you know when it's been fully completed. I hope to be able to include his input on his army design and strategy before it's over... I'll certainly include mine.


So, lets start with the visitors...
Nerf's Chaos Demons:

First Wave:
Bloodthirster
Skarbrand
2 x Demon Prince of Khorne

Second Wave:
5 x 8 bloodletters

Wings with 4 wounds each and a million power weapons with 4 million attacks. Woof!


The home team...
Gitsplitta's Mantis Warriors Penitent:

HQ:
Libby - Null Zone and some shooty power (not the flamer)
MoTF + flunkie

Elite:
Sternguard (5) - forgot to give them ANY wargear... so just the bolters
Ven Dread - 2 x TL Autocannons

Troops:
Scouts (10) - sniper rifles, heavy bolter, srg w/ PF
Scouts (10) - sniper rifles, missile launcher, Telion (Darius Stone in my chapter)
Tac Squad - plasma, missile launcher, rhino, srg w/ plas pist & p-sword

Fast:
Assault Squad (5) - 1 PP, Srg w/ plas pist & p-sword

Hvy:
Dreadnought: TL-LC, CCW, Hvy Flamer
Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, CCW, Hvy Flamer


Mantis Warriors: In general, this is fundamentally the configuration of my Mantis Warriors that I've been working around for some time now. Scouts, vets, dreads. MoTF has become mandatory in order to get the dreads in the heavy slots. Sniper scouts because, well... that's all I have painted at the moment. I chose the librarian strictly for Null Zone and to beef up my assault squad a bit. The Tac squad in the rhino is a luxury I usually don't allow myself for fluff reasons, but as a result of the "Great Marine Swap" I'm going to end up with an inquisitional tac squad with rhino, I thought it would be a good idea to practice with them a bit. Interestingly enough, this is the very last time any of these assault marines will fight with my army. They're packed up in a box as I type this and will be shipped off to Lennysmash as part of our trade, so this was their last opportunity to fight alongside their brothers-in-arms. Given the opponent and the fact that I deny myself the use of tanks, it was about as good a mix of troops as I could get (lots of rending and "poisoned" weapons, lots of rapid fire & dreads who were basically bloodletter-proof).

Demons: Will update this when I get input from the demon-master himself,- but in essence I believe Nerf's idea was to overwhelm his opponent with a zillion power sword attacks while using the wee-beasties to soak up fire and take out vehicles. No shooting, but absolute carnage when they get into H-t-H. Worried the heck outta me, that's for certain. Unfortunately he'd accidentally left his tray with most of his bloodletters at home, so we had to proxy them with my orks.



The Game:
We consulted the BRB and rolled up Annihilation and Dawn of War deployment. I lost the roll and was compelled to go first.

Once again we were fighting over the abandoned ork Stompa factory. Once you have really nice terrain it's really had to play on anything else. Demons got to arrange the terrain to their liking (power of the warp and all) while I franticly put together my army. Even though my table is 4x8 we confined the field of play to a standard 4x6 surface. Having real buildings is fun but it's also a challenge in that the standard rules don't really suffice. So every game I play on this table I tweak and change the rules a bit... I like this version... with a little tweaking it might be the one I stick with. In short, buildings are difficult terrain for infantry, impassible to vehicles. Being on a building is the same as being in it & confers a 5+ save (ramshackle ork construction you know...). Committing two movements (move and run) will get you from anywhere on the outside of the building to anywhere on the inside (or top), and there is NO unit coherency in the buildings. i.e. all figures in the building are considered to be in coherency, no matter the relation to one another. So a regular unit could get from the base of a building to anywhere they wanted to within it, but could not act. A fleet unit could actually get into the building *and* assault in one turn (or visa-versa). Lastly movement within a building is infinite... i.e. during a movement "chance" you can move any figure in the building to any other place within the building, normal restrictions like being in H-t-H or the 1" need-to-assault-to-get-closer-than-this apply. These rules represent the fact that orky construction is filled with exposed beams, girders, wires and pipes... things a trained soldier would have no problem scrambling up with or without a stairwell or ladder.

Piles of rubble were just difficult terrain but conferred the same 5+ saving throw.

Deployment:
I decided to "hole up in a corner", at least I wouldn't have to worry about the demons raining down from the skies until the rest of my troops came on to cover my back. I took Telion's squad and put them in one of the ork buildings, then the scout squad (with the PF) out in front. I added my librarian for good measure as a lookout atop the building.

Turn 1-A: (Mantis Warriors)
My half of turn 1 saw the Mantis Warriors foot slogging in around the scouts in order to prevent any unfortunate deep-striking incidents and set up a gun line. As per usual the Tranquility Detachment ran the sternguard as a screen for the venerable dreadnought. These two units are formidable when run in tandem, especially when I remember to give the sternguard a little war gear. The assault squad moved forward aggressively on the left flank as the librarian dropped down to join their ranks. The Dreadnoughts and MoTF filled in the center, providing heavy support for the vulnerable scouts. The tactical squad drove up the flank to provide support for the assault squad and a solid anchor for the left.

Turn 1-B: (Demons)
The powers of the warp waxed and waned and what materialized on the battlefield were 4 mucking huge demons of Khorne! Yowza!! This is apparently what the Master of Demons (Nerf) was hoping for and he smiled slyly as he dropped them down one by one. Luckily none of the scattered in my direction and I figured I'd get at least one decent turn of shooting before things got ugly.



Score: Demons - 0, MW - 0

Turn 2-A: (Mantis Warriors)
The assault troops, libby and tac squads advance quickly on the left, with the libby running into the rubble to help improve his chances vs. a demon assault. He fires up his Null Zone power, which only affects the nearest demon (but I'll take it). On the right, everyone save the dreads sits tight so they can fire at long range. The scouts of course... take aim. Two full squads of snipers, the sternguard using poison amo and the dreads open up on the demons. When it's all over, the nearest demon (Bloodthirster) is dead, and Skarbrand has 3 wounds!



Turn 2-B: (Demons)
Two squads of bloodletters materialize, one in the center and one to the far right. The large demons move at frightening speed toward the Imperial lines. With no shooting attacks however, the forces of chaos are still trying the close the gap.



Score: Demons - 0, MW - 1

Turn 3-A: (Mantis Warriors)

Across the broken, fetid, industrial wasteland that was the remnants of the ork compound, Sgt. Buzka could see two large groups of gibbering demons materialize out of the warp... while giant behemoths of violence and death lept through the air behind them on shredded, impossible wings. In a matter of moments the beasts would be amongst their vulnerable scouts... their *first* scouts in over a century... the future of the chapter snuffed out to feed the vile powers of chaos. "Men." stated the sergeant in a tone as flat as death... "you know what must be done." After 200 years of ceaseless campaigning with his brothers... no answer was necessary, and none was given. "FOR THE EMPEROR!!" they cried as one as they charged the center of the demon horde.

On the left flank, the rhino continues its outflanking course, while the assault squad moves to give assault cover to the lower unit of scouts. The librarian, now unattached finds a spot in the rubble in relative safety from which to fail a psychic test and suffer a wound. Meanwhile the snipers take aim...

In the only truly heroic moment of the battle for my army, the five sternguard with no special weapons advance to the center of the board, within easy charge range of two demon princes, a greater demon and 16 bloodletters, determined to slow the demonic advance enough to buy one extra turn of fire for the rest of the army. Knowing what must be done, the venerable dreadnought eases back and trains his wepons on a demon prince, staying out of charge range should his shots fail to fell the beast. A hail of fire opens up again from the Mantis Warrior lines, hoping to provide enough covering fire to allow the sternguard to emerge alive. Skarbrand and one of the demon princes are destroyed, as are most of the bloodletters, however in order to make certain the center stays muddied up, the tranquility snipers (sternguard) charge the 3 remaining bloodletters, killing 1 while losing 2 of their own.



Turn 3-B: (Demons)
Two more squads of bloodletters materialize out of the warp, one dangerously close the to Mantis Warrior lines. The greater demon and untouched bloodletters assault the valiant sternguard. With one sweep of his great axe, there is nothing left of the Veterans of Tranquility... their limbs sheared, and bodies split asunder.



Score: Demons - 0, MW - 3

Turn 4-Aa: (Mantis Warriors, movement)
Things get a little dicey here so I split out my half of the turn. The rhino finally finishes it's outflanking move and deposits the tactical squad withing rapid fire range. The assault squad gambles that it is better to leave the scouts unprotected than to be an impediment to their firing, and jumps to the far side of the bloodletters. Librarian casts Null Zone (successfully this time). On the right the dreadnoughts, incensed and inspired by the selfless sacrifice of their brethren surge forward towards the demons, while the veteran dreadnought... in silent suffering over the loss of his fellow Tranquility Campaign veterans, vows vengeance with every round. Meanwhile, the snipers take aim...



Turn 4-Ab: (Mantis Warriors, shooting)
The two dreadnoughts unload their heavy flamers and main weapons on the bloodletters killing most in the near squad on 1 of the 2 remaining from the squad that was charged by the sternguard. On the left flank, Brother Ignus forgets to set the safety on his plasma and fries himself... but not before taking out a bloodletter. His brothers take out two more. Here my friends is where the assault squad really shines, I believe the five assault marines shot and killed the 5 remaining bloodletters (thanks to the Null Zone). Though I think I would have had an advantage in assault strictly due to numbers, those bloodletters would have killed a lot of marines before going down. Good job boys, beer is on me! (There it is... in the corner, go get it!) The venerable dread and scouts open up on the greater demon, and he goes down in a hail of sniper and autocannon fire.

One of the dreads charges through the retaining pond and into the 3 remaining bloodletters on the right center. Their attacks ping off his heavy armor. He kills two outright and the last succumbs to a "fearless" wound.



Revenge is sweet... and HOT.


Turn 4-B: (Demons)
The final squad of bloodletters arrives (scatters) to the rear. The demon horde, knowing no fear, charges towards the marine assault squad... determined to reap vengeance and blood for their blood god. The lone bloodletter is an unbelieveable 1/16" short of being able to complete his charge! Woah... that was close.



Score: Demons - 1, MW - 6

Turn 5-A: (Mantis Warriors)
I play "keep away" yet again, and my assault squad gets the heck outta Dodge (towards their beer). Lots of shooting, more demons die.

Turn 5-B: (Demons)
With no more reserves there is little hope, but demons follow their nature... and charge forward undaunted.





We roll, game ends.

Final score: Demons - 1, MW - 6



I want to mention that Nerf was an outstanding opponent. I have been on the receiving end of one sided battles like this and it is not fun or easy. Throughout Nerf was honorable, a gentleman and would even remind me of things that I had forgotten to do that were to my benefit and his detriment. That is good sportsmanship above and beyond the call, and I would be honored to play him any time, anywhere.


Hope it was worth the read, and I hope to include some of his comments in a later edit.

Gits

Cool

Epilogue: The librarian and forgemaster of the Mantis Warriors stood in quiet conversation looking grim. A century of fighting demons and the forces of chaos in the Eye during the Dark Times (i.e. their exile/crusade - Gits) had paid it's dividends. A major demonic incursion had been stopped with nearly no casualties.... nearly. The scouts had performed admirably, their carefully aimed sniper rifle rounds finding the weak spots in the demons hide. Victory would have been impossible without them.

"Was this their first direct experience against demonic forces?" the Forgemaster asked.
"Aye" answered the Librarian.
"They did well"
"Aye, Stone will have them ready when it's time for them to assume their full responsibilities."
...
"How long did you know Brother Buzka?" asked the Forgemaster.
"We were scouts together."
"We would have been lost without his sacrifice... you know that." said the Forgemaster, sensing the sorrow and loss of his battle brother.
Aye, but how can a man survive 100 years of battleing chaos in the heart of the Melstrom, only to fall to it here... in the heart of the Imperium?!"
"It was the Emperor's will, perhaps THIS is why he survived all those years... one moment, one decision, one supreme sacrifice to secure the future of our chapter."
"Perhaps, Forgemanster, perhaps." (The Librarian slowly squared his shoulders and looked towards the horizon, as if the clouds of dust were revealing the past by concealing the present). "Let us quit this foul place and escort our fallen brethren to their eternal rest. It is our time now, and there is much work to do"


Final Thoughts:
I was pleased with the way the battle went, but I had more than my share of good luck. The scouts managed to dish out a prodigious number of wounds with a healthy percentage being rending. Sternguard shooting was formidable as always. All the dreads performed as expected & I'm sold on the the CCW combination for most of them as it makes them much more versatile. On average I rolled very well, which is quite atypical for me. The fact that the demons managed to almost always scatter away from my army was a huge help, buying me a clean extra turn or more of shooting in the game. It was, in essence... a giant game of "keep away". I liked the little assault squad as it was a handy thing to bounce around and provide fire or a safety screen for my vulnerable troops wherever needed.

As for the size of the pics, you can have them in "full size" :



But that maeks for a very large size, depending on their resolution!!!

When you're in your gallery, you can adjust the size of the picture from "Recommended" to "Full Size", it's just on top of the links you copy & paste to show your awesome stuff!
Hope this helps!

As for the game, it was pretty straightforward indeed, I usually have the same kind of games when I play my own demons... They get shot & burned & run from, with only a few opportunities to assault my opponent's troops!!!

Nice fluff parts as well... I can well imagine the mighty veterans charging in for the sake of their Chapter... Very SM-esque!!!

OK, so I can change the setting but it doesn't actually do anything... there's no way to save the change. It automatically reverts to the recommended size setting.

This was fun!

Then maybe you can resize it manually (that's what I did to copy your pic)!

All links look like this :

[ url=http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965_Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg][img ]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965-Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg[/img][/url]

For each of the four sizes (Thumbnail, Small, Medium, Full-sized), the difference in the link is a small added suffix to the pic number (marked in purple on the above link).

Respectively, _th ; _mb ; _sm ; nothing (just like the link used as example).

So if you want your pic to be a thumbnail, the link will be

[ url=http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965_Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg][img ]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965_th-Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg[/img][/url]



For your initial problem : the default size is Medium / _sm, so if you want them full sized, just remove the _sm in the link pasted from the gallery!



As for final examples :

[ url=http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965_Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg][img ]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965_th-Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg[/img][/url]

yields :

[ url=http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965_Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg][img ]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965_mb-Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg[/img][/url]

yields :

[ url=http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965_Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg][img ]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965_sm-Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg[/img][/url]

yields :

And, eventually:


[ url=http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965_Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg][img ]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/9/16/139965-Mantis%20Warriors%2C%20DS-T1.jpg[/img][/url]

yields :

I just hope this was helpful... And not that foggy or boring, as I fear!

Great report! The yellow and green really gives a nice contrast on the battlefield, would be nice to see your forces not so spread out thought, perhaps it's time for a army shoot soon (really wanna see em all toghether ?

@Yggs: Doing it manually worked! Thanks!! Now that I know that I can edit my photos so they're the correct size (these are a bit big). I figure the battle report shots should be pretty big as you need to see what's going on & it's disruptive to have to go to the pic page to view them within the context of the battle report.

@Limbo: Thanks! Unfortunately the assault marines are on their way to England, but I can get a shot of the rest. It's still a mish-mosh of old and new figures...

Glad I could be of help...

In picture 4-ab is that a beer bottle drop pod?

I expect that out of SW but not the Penitent.

Excellent, your force was well rounded and you adjusted your tactic's to keep your eye on the victory points. however 1 reater demon showing getting into HTH would ruin your day... well played!

One *anything* getting into H-t-H would have ruined my day. You saw what 3 crappy bloodletters did to my *charging* unit of sternguard didn't you? Holy moley! If they'd have reached me any of those units would have gone through me like you-know-what through a goose!

What's that??? 32 power sword attacks at +1 strength and +1 initiative on the charge? Oh... 11 unsavable wounds? I only have 10 guys... is that enough?


That's no beer... it's "Packer Pop"!!

Awesome batrep!

I was asked by Ordo Dakka if I could do a little how-to on my hinged chainswords. After writing it up in PM form... it seemed like a lot of work for just one PM, so I thought I'd post it here. As I did not photograph the whole process in steps you'll have to use your imagination on the photos shown... but it's frankly not all that difficult a process, so I'm sure you can figure it out.



OK, it's not as difficult as you might think. I've done three experimental models, so I have a few pics to work from. First I get a plethora of swords to work with, so if I mess up I can start again.

In essence, the bottom sword is mounted fairly normally. In my chaos mantis and ork bug boy conversions, I have the models holding the swords as normal.





While in my actual Mantis Warrior loyalist conversion, I have the base blade mounted directly to the arm (which is I believe the superior way this weapon would be attached).



I know I'm going to need to cut both joined parts of the two blades off to make the join. How you do this depends on your philosophy of how the weapon works. In the Mantis Warrior (technologically more sophisticated) system, all the blades are connected to the same drive system, so I just needed a clean joint to represent the transition from one blade to the other.



In this case I just removed the motor from the second sword, then cut the angles of both parts so they made the look I wanted. You'll have to remove some teeth as well to get the angle right. Use the plastic glue that melts the plastic together to keep these pieces from falling apart & make sure they're lined up very straight!

With the chaos version, which is my mind would have been field-repaired over the centuries without the proper equipment or parts... I actually had a second motor on the "upper" blade (see above photo). Each of these were made differently. On the bent sword I just kept the chainsword in-tact including the motor and cut out enough of both swords to make a reasonable hinging point where the teeth would not interfere with one another. On the extended sword, I actually used my jeweler's saw to cut off the motor of the upper sword in slabs from the body of the sword (top first, then sides). The I reassembled the slabs on the joint with a bit of green stuff to fill in the gaps.

On the integrated Mantis Warrior swords, I added a power cable from the back of the weapon into the body of the armor (actually under the arm). This particular cable is too big I think, and on my future Vanguard I'll use a smaller one.

The other tricky thing with the swords is how to disguise the joint. On the cruder chaos and ork swords, it was fairly easy to cut the nubbins around the motors or gears to make the bend look plausible, however on the regular Mantis Warrior swords it's trickier, because you've got a clean joint to make into a believable weapon. There are several possibilities, only one of which I've explored myself.

1) My first attempt was set of sliding plates below a pivot point on the top of the joint. (see pic's above) I was not happy with how this turned out.
2) tony_nids_10 suggested a set up like a normal modern knee brace.. which I quite liked. A photo is on page 9 of my blog, but I can't seem to get it from there to here...
3) My other thought was to simply have a roughly triangular plate cover the joint, with a pivot pin on the top and a sliding pin and slot near the bottom. (no pics, but imagine the 3-plate version with only one plate and a curved slot at the bottom with a pin that keeps the swords tracking along the slot.

Last part is positioning. Seemed to me that the most natural motion would be the best, so that when the arm is bent, the swords are bent. When the arms are extended, the swords are too.

That's it! Once you puzzle out the basics it's actually quite easy to do... just make sure you have extra bits around so you can experiment.

Gits

Nice battle report. I was glad to read that your opponent was such a good sport. Imo, winning is overrated. That's one of the reasons that I built a speed freak army! If I want to win a game it's often as simple as saving all the points spend on trukks and wagons and just buying boyz. in a 1000 point game, after the cost of the boss, you can field 150 boyz! Even mars would run out of ammo trying to drop that much angry choppa wielding fungus, but the simple truth is I know what my boyz like. They want to drive a crossed a crater filled field at 80 miles an hour, surrounded by explosions and they don't care if its the enemy or the trukk next to them fill with gits that owe them teeth! I'd rather loss ten games in a row if they are worth a trukk load of laughs, as apposes to winning one game filled with rule lawyers and arguments. This is a fun game with a richer then Germen chocolate back ground, & thats why I follow your blog, & why I like to make armies for their story and not for their tournament winning lists. Don't get me wrong when I built my noise marines I bought each piece thinking about how they would play together, but when I built my Blood angles (or as I continue) I'm not building a list, I'm building a chapter. I'm not making space pirates to crush my friends armies, I'm building them because the fluff talks about pirates and I gotta feed something to my Tyranids. I love your threads Git. Keep up the love of 40k, not the love of beating our like minded 40k brothers.

NIce work git, not been on here in a while but I'm loving all thats going on! Nice report. Daemons become so much less threatening when you take a null zone libby! PLus seeing your enemys face when you inform him he has to reroll all saves within 24" is grat fun.

Keep it coming man.

Imp. Monkey

Just a quick note for those of you who don't follow my Doom Eagle Odyssey blog. I posted a rather large battle report for my Mantis Warriors vs. My son's Doom Eagles. So if you're interested head on over there... should be easy enough to find, it's been reasonably active since the post.

i love that! can you make a marine with one of those for our trade!

How was the base done on the dread on page 10?

Sageheart wrote:i love that! can you make a marine with one of those for our trade!

Not this time I'm afraid... I'd be happy to do one for you but I am very backed up in trades at the moment and while this is a straight forward process it is very fiddly... plus it takes about 6 chain swords to produce on of these figures. (I use extra parts to make the blades on the legs and arm.) Let's get this one done as planned & then later when I'm not so far behind the 8-ball we can discuss a second trade. Good enough?

HadoukenAvenger wrote:How was the base done on the dread on page 10?

Very easy. I use a mix of GF-9 basing medium (small, medium & large), and which all happen to be about the same shade of brown. After the glue is dry, I wash with sepia or delvan mud (I prefer sepia). Then I add shapes of super glue (dots, patches, streaks) and use a couple of different colors of GF-9 staic grass (though any brand will do). Lastly I have a little of their fall mix foliage (colored lichen) & I tear off a couple of small pieces & glue to the base for interest. Occasionally I add a bunch of tall grass, made by Woodland Scenics (like on the sniper bases).

Gitsplitta wrote:

Sageheart wrote:i love that! can you make a marine with one of those for our trade!

Not this time I'm afraid... I'd be happy to do one for you but I am very backed up in trades at the moment and while this is a straight forward process it is very fiddly... plus it takes about 6 chain swords to produce on of these figures. (I use extra parts to make the blades on the legs and arm.) Let's get this one done as planned & then later when I'm not so far behind the 8-ball we can discuss a second trade. Good enough?

awee :( (tear)

no that makes a ton of sense. If you are down to put me on yr trade list for much later and we can make a swap!

No problem Sage... you're "penciled in".
:-)

Gitsplitta wrote:Occasionally I add a bunch of tall grass, made by Woodland Scenics (like on the sniper bases).

I discovered them the other month. I just recieved a package containing a Landscape Kit the other week. You should check out their site if you haven't seen it, it's amazing.

Yeah, those model railroad guys *really* know how to make realistic looking dioramas. Got a couple of my best basing tricks from my experiences dabbling in toy trains...

Gitsplitta wrote:No problem Sage... you're "penciled in".
:-)

excited!

Hey Git, sorry it's taken me a shade under a decade to respond. That was a great game, really quite amazing that your 'typical' army just turned out to be ideal for picking me apart. You made a good point afterwards though, instead of starting out back and trying to hide behind terrain, it's better to be right in front of all your guns ASAP so that if anything manages to survive, it's tearing something apart next turn. Also, if I get DoW again, I'm going to go first, because even though it gives you an extra turn to shoot at me, your shooting would have been less effective as most of your army would have been moving onto the board.

As for the list, you had it right except that it was 2 DPoK, 1 Bloodthirster, and Skarbrand, with 40 Bloodletters to round out the list. Not an optimal list in a lot of ways, but it's nice because nothing in the army allows an armor save, so if I can get to grips with my opponent, it'll be one-sided the other way. Going to try one more test game before the tourney, hopefully that goes better, or I'll have to switch armies.

Thanks again for the battle, love that terrain. Just got my two Imperial Sectors though, so in a couple more years when I finish my table, we can do the next game at my place.

Nerf!! Cool! Just happy to have your input. I'll adjust the original post accordingly. Anything you want to add from your perspective just let me know & I'll paste it in.

It would be really funny if we ended up fighting at the tournament in October... though since my MW's are in total painting disarray I guess I'll be using my orks. They aren't optimized... just a unit of this and a unit of that... but they're fun to play and the look good, and that's what REALLY matters isn't it? *grin*

I hope to do the next game before that! But when you're ready... I'll be there with bells on!


OH, hey... as I'm re-doing the battle report... which critter was the Bloodthirster and which was Skarbrand?

Gits

The one laying on his back that you took out first was the Bloodthirster, the one without wings was Skarbrand. The Balrog was one DPoK, the other one was, well, the other DPoK. Yeah, considering we're both invited for our painting skills, I'd say it's fairly likely we'll face each other at the tourney, which might be another reason for me to change armies. Be sure to post on the forum to let them know if you're going to be there that day so they can plan the brackets accordingly.

Other than that, I thought the batrep was great, I love your little kill markers and directional arrows, I had no idea you would be so thorough when you were snapping the pics. That angle really did a good job of showing what was going on as well. We should mount that thing on a tripod next time and get exactly the same shots each turn.

I'm sure there will be more games, with the kid on the way, making the regular Thursday night game might be difficult, so I might have to call you when I know I've got some free time coming up.

O.K., fixed the battle report. Yeah, the little arrows I've been doing for a while. I've read a lot of great battle reports that have been very difficult to follow on the pics (not in the text) because it's not always obvious what units are what or what they're doing, so the arrows at least make it easier for me to sort out. The little kill markers I've seen other people use... this is the first time I've actually done it.

I was by TLS today and they started the sign-up sheet when I asked about the tourney, so I'm #1! It'll be the last time I'm #1 at the tournament I'm sure.

You're welcome any time... love to play again. Just give me a day or so notice so I can clean... I mean PLAN accordingly.

Gits

Git, I just got your bitz in the mail and I will be working on the marine tomorrow. Be ready to be amazed by.... mediocreness

LOL! You'll be fine TT. Glad you got them, sorry for the delay.

Some things in 40k are cooler than others.

You know what's cool in my book?

15 RT era space marine jet bikes... the majority of which are pristine.



"Why is it cool? You can't use them!" you ask...

"Only if I claim they're "jet" bikes... if I run them as normal bikes, it's all good *and* it goes with my fluff." says I...

"But, the big marines always looked rediculous on those tiny little bikes didn't they?" says you...

"Yes they did... but a marine SCOUT is a much better fit... and again, fluff-wise it makes far more sense for them to be on a jet-bike looking thing than a regular bike." says I...

"But what would you do with them?" says you...

"Give them a locator beacon, infiltrate them, scout move them, then my drop pod assault comes down exactly where I want it. Then if I give a power fist to the sergeant, they can assault on that first turn to pevent my drop podded troops for being assaulted, or go after vehicles, etc." says I...

"Oh... pretty cool". says you...

"Yes" says I... "pretty cool."

"I want to see" says I!

Yeah... I figured you would. I can get you a pic of the bike tomorrow night. No rider though, they're going to take some modification to get to look just right.

any GL converts thought of?

The way I'm planning on using them I don't think the grenade launchers are a good use of points... but, I'm sure I'll come up with a magnetized or pinned something in case I change my mind...

Hey bro, check your PMs

GOOOOOOOO Jetbikes!!!
I don't see why marines shouldn't have jetbikes, after all they have the land speeder. In the RT roolz it says that the marines jetbikes are held aloft by antigrav units salvaged from downed eldar jetbikes, jealously appropriated by the chapter techmarines

1 word: Tempest. Marines so have jet bikes (well, ish). LS Tempests are solid, fun, and fluff tastic.

Boys, I'm handing the reins of the blog over to Blackhand for the time being. I'm still here, but he's going to run the show for a bit for reasons which will become apparent.

I'm still working, but have managed to lose the data card for my camera... so no new pics 'till I find it again (or get a new one).

Gits

Haha! As part of my plan to take over every blog on Dakka I foolishly offered to attempt to sculpt some Mantis Warrior helmets for our good friend Gitsplitta.....Thats right I don't have enough to do so I added some custom helmets to the two armies I'm building!

Seriously I think we can all admit to loving this blog and admiring Gitsplitta for his dedication to resurrecting a little known chapter as well as introducing his two boys to the most noble pastime on the planet. Getting the chance to contribute to his project in a significant way is a real honour and has had my brain firing on all cylinders for the last couple of days.

Enough gushing! get to the helmets I hear you type?

Fair enough, first off after a few PMs with Gits to formulate a rough brief we decided to use elements of the pads he has commissioned from Chapterhouse, namely the vertical ridge running down the middle of the head and the ubiquitous mantis bug-eyes. We also wanted a wedge shape to the helmet to resemble the shape of a Mantis' head, since the reason the mantis' head is wedge shaped is due to it's eyes being on the side of its head and quite far back the only way saw to gt the look was the extend and enlarge the Marine helmet's eye lenses up and back and to add"mandibles" to sharpen the front of the helmet.

Enough talk! Get to the pics already!

Ok, so these first five helmets are what I see as "basic" helmets for rank and file troops. For captains and sergeants I think we can come up with something a bit more interesting

Where the hell are the pics? Ok, ok fine..here they are...



This guy is the most basic of the helms, with ridge, mantis eyes and pretty subtle mandibles



Again a simple helm with mandibles that wrap almost fully around the face.



This fella was an experiment in starting the mandibles at the ear instead of the cheek to give a more streamlined shape.



After a discussion with Gitsplitta who mentioned that praying mantis' are an ambush hunter and therefore have hidden mandibles I came up with this guy and the next one. I kinda like them but the worry is that they are a bit chaosy looking.




The idea was that these are smaller "feeder" mandibles as opposed to the large crushing ones of the first three helmets.


So this is where Gits and I have gotten to at this point, we have a few more ideas like.

- a segmented ridge that goes all the way down to the neck of the helmet.

- A "V' between the eyes that butts up against the vertical ridge.

- To exaggerate the jaw on a helmet even more than I already have.

- I found a great pic of the weirdest praying mantis with a head crest and a spike on its nose so I will be raiding my bits box for a bladelike protrusion to mount on a helmets nose.

- I have a crest from a Dark Elf Cold One Knight and I will be investigating mounting it on helm in some way probably to signify a veteran or captain.

Why are you showing us all Blackhand? why not surprise us with a done deal?

Well basically we need more ideas!

After hitting a wall inspirationwise I suggested to Gitsplitta that we open up the brainstorm to the Dakka community and he said yes...then dumped his blog in my lap(thanks Gits )
We want at least 10 basic helmets to cast a mould of which should give Gitsplitta a decent amount of variety in his army. The helmets are for his newer marines that have been armed and armored by the imperium since the Mantis Warriors return from the warp so we are not looking for anything overtly organic more something that suggests the insectoid theme.

So bring it on! we want ideas, suggestions and C&C up the wazoo

Cheers

BLACKHAND

Helmets = Brilliant brilliant frelling brilliant.

lines of small spiked studs running across the helmet front to back in two rows either side of the crest.

Mantis Warriors HOOOE! (think thundercats)

Lordy. Blackhand's gs skills FTW.

Extremely cool BH! I don't think the two last ones look to chaosy, they will look great and imperial when painted Also maybe for sergeants and such maybe consider small antennas on their heads? it both fit with the mantis and can be some advanced communication device? to ad some more options on ordinary helmets you could also consider adding some more armour plates and maybe ad the "V" shape of a mantis head to one. But not so sure if it will look any good though. Keep it up

Gits just to let you know that your guys arrived here safely today. They look great though I'm pretty sure 5 pp in a 10 man assault squad isn't strictly game legal, lol.

That helmet looks awesome!

Hey Lenny: That squad was put together for 3rd edition and was run as 2 5-man squads. In going up to 5th I'd re-painted some of the plasma pistols silver in order to disguise them. I can scrounge up some bolt pistols and send them if you'd like... just didn't think about it when I shipped it, sorry.


Yeah, Blackhand's sculpts are masterful! He wanted to put them out for comment and in hopes you guys would have some more ideas for variations and/or better ideas than he and I had. So please if you can think of a way to represent a preying mantis head while still being believably Imperial... please don't hesitate to make suggestions.

They are amazing Blackhand. 1,2,3 and 5 look fantastic, I'm not sure on 4 though, kind of reminds me of bugs bunny.

As for another helmet design I can't think of one at the moment. If I do think of one I'll post it here.

@Weety - Thanks, the studs idea goes on the list, it may tie in the new marines to the older guys with studded shoulderpads that Gitsplitta is running.

@rosemountainz - Once the heads are cast and in his hands Gitplitta is going to try adding a whip/cable antenna that leaves the top of the helmet on both sides of the ridge and plugs into the backpack, kinda like how modern tanks and vehicles have their antennas folded back and attached to the body of the vehicle. Partly because in battle you wouldn't want a whippy antenna flicking all over the place and partly to keep the mantis helmet from become a parody.
Remember we are going for a helmet that resembles an insect but isn't an actual bug head on a marine

@inmygravenimage & Xenon - Thanks guys!


@Gathering Storm - Sorry you were posting as I was! Yeah I think I will move away from the smaller mandibles it doesn't give such clean lines as the first two.

Thanks again Gitspltta! its fun taking over someone else's blog.!

Nah I was only joshin with you, they're great. I'm probably going to keep a 5 man squad as Mantis warriors and then re do the other 5 as a 5 man Consecrator assault squad, hope thats ok?

In regards to the helmets, I really love the first three with 2 being my overall favourite. Also have you consider transformers as a source of inspiration.
http://transformers.guidefella.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/bumblebee1.jpg
http://www.walyou.com/img/transformers-bumblebee-costume-1.jpg
http://www.itechnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Transformers-Bumblebee-Voie-Mixer-Helmet.jpg

Just a reminder... the shoulder pads for the MW (which should be ready in a couple of weeks) look like this...



And terminator pad... which I asked Blackhand to use as the starting point...

@lennysmash - I hadn't thought of transformers, seeing those pics reminds me of how insectile some of them were. I think we are keeping away from a full redesign of the helmet, these are supposed to be the "new" marks of armour given to the Mantis Warriors after returning to the fold so to speak, they still need to keep the basic shape of a marine helmet. That said instead of adding greenstuff to the helmet grill I could try carving the grill off completely and design a completely different mouthguard for the helmet, one with multiple parts and small mandibles, iit will go on the list of things to try!

Gitsplitta seeing those pads again has made me think I could add another ridge that runs from the inner corner of the eye and follows the curve of the grill/vent on the front of the helmet, might give it that segmented look of lower half of the mantis head on the pads.

Love the helmets!! Have you thought about making a helmet with antennas? Might look kinda weird, but I think if anyone can make it work, it's you. It would only be a small change from any of the other helmets, but enough to make it a diffrent one (if you're feeling lazy you could just make a version of each helm with antennas and call it a day ;P).

Hey Limbo, problem with adding the antennas at this stage is casting them, my casting process is still pretty basic and I couldn't guarantee them coming out each time.

I think Gitplitta and I agreed that he will add antennas at his end when he is assembling the marines, whether its for one marine or all of them is up to him.

Wowza! Those are awesome!
And just as I began sketching plans for my own chapters custom helmets

My favorite by far is the second one (it feels right) but all of them are awesome work!
The second to last just looks off to me. doesnt really scream "MANTIS!!!" to me.
The final one look a bit chaos-y, but thatd be great if anyone wants to "corrupt" Gits work xD

Stellar Work, BLACKHAND!

I hear theres no Mantis Warrior stuff in the Badab War IA :(

You are our replacement

They're yours Lenny, do with them what you will. (but it's cool that you're keeping a few in MW colors!) thanks.

I felt it would be a little out of order to ruin the guys. The beakies are screaming to be inducted in the Consecrator Chapter though, and as I've recently acquired three RT power fists, their wish shall be granted.

First of all, Blackhand your work continues to amaze me. Second of all, I think the helmets are all awesome, the more variety the better. The slight chaos feel totally works with the Mantis Warriors and their weird and questionable ways.

Ordo Dakka wrote:I hear theres no Mantis Warrior stuff in the Badab War IA :(

You are our replacement

To answer this one. There are going to be TWO Badab War Imperial Armour books. The second one will contain the Mantis Warriors.

Oh, and my favorite helm is the fourth one.

Yes that's correct two volumes at £45 each, and they're not actually Tournament legal are they? Well done ForgeWorld/GW another winning marketing strategy, hype up the price so hardly anyone can afford them.

i love the last two helmets, i woudl go more for that look!

i would try just making the higher ranking helmets look more regal, and the lower level ones look more insect like. maybe the higher ranks get different kind of mandibles?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BLACKHAND wrote:@lennysmash - I hadn't thought of transformers, seeing those pics reminds me of how insectile some of them were. I think we are keeping away from a full redesign of the helmet, these are supposed to be the "new" marks of armour given to the Mantis Warriors after returning to the fold so to speak, they still need to keep the basic shape of a marine helmet. That said instead of adding greenstuff to the helmet grill I could try carving the grill off completely and design a completely different mouthguard for the helmet, one with multiple parts and small mandibles, iit will go on the list of things to try!

Gitsplitta seeing those pads again has made me think I could add another ridge that runs from the inner corner of the eye and follows the curve of the grill/vent on the front of the helmet, might give it that segmented look of lower half of the mantis head on the pads.

if you look at the SW helmets, some of them are entire wolf heads basically, not even a SM helmet at all, you could totally do that with these helmets, and have some be just mantis heads!

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

Since we seem to have a pretty even split of opinion between the first three helmets and the last 2 more insectile helmets I thought that I might cast 2 moulds, 1 consisting of the normal helmets and one of the more insectile and more out there helmets. We can then cast more of the normal helmets and lower the ratio of the "different" helmets.

@Sageheart - I hadn't thought of the wolf helms, you are right they are differently a variation from the standard marine helmet. I may have a go at it and see what Gitspltta thinks, thanks!

Hey blackhand... that mantis photo you sent me might be a good prototype for a leaders helm...

I have a prototype helm with a blade on the front that I knocked out last night, I will post pics up as soon as I manage to pry my hungover sister-in-law out of my modelling room!

*LOL* I miss those days... well, not all that much really.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
A bit of happy news... FLGS had a bit consignment come in and I was able to snag some nicely painted scouts perfectly armed for my LS-Storm theory at about half the normal price. Just need to re-paint a few colors on each and it'll leap-frog my ability to field a functional army considerably. Anything that gets me a step closer with less work is a good thing from my perspective...

Gits

those helmets are amazing

i love helmet no5. and why dont you try a bigger middle piece. why not make the leaders female? the female is the boss in mantis social hyrachi.

I'm terribly ashamed that I haven't been diligently following this thread.

Git: Love the hinged chainswords!

Blackhand: Great work on the heads! Though they do look a bit chaosy, I especially like the last two with the hidden mandibles. Very characterful!

I agree with most : all the helmets are awesome, and the last 2 are so full of character! They're definitely in for sarges & captains!

^ QFT

Thanks guys, its good to know we are on the right track.

I will have some prototypes using the suggestions I have recieved posted up in the next few days, hope you can all wait!

i cant wait! but i will!

Sorry readers (and Gitsplitta!) have had a hectic week and havn't had he chance to sculpt up as many new prototype heads as I would have liked.

First off, Weety though I really liked the idea of two rows of studs alongside the ridge but my GS skills were not quite up to sculpting 2mm round studs..not to mention my eyes!

I have been playing around with antennas and horns but I have serious doubts about how well they will cast..so a change of plans...I will cast up several batches of heads and experiment with antennas on those. This will hopefully give Gitsplitta a decent amount variation in his squads and avoid casting mishaps

I do have a couple of pics for you though, first a "sergeant" style head with a crest and the "slightly more popular" mandibles.



And here is a much more Insectoid helm then most, moving towards the "wolf" helm that the SW have..though of course its a Mantis not a wolf




It's much further from the space marine helmet than the others but I think I may need to strip a helmet bat to a stub and really sculpt a Mantis head from scratch to get the truly insect head look I was going for.

C&C is very welcome as always

Cheers

BLACKHAND

"Waspinator under attack! Waspinator engage enemy! Waspinator: terrorize!"

Very cool looking helmets! They should look even better when they are painted.

Love the helmets! The blade on the helmet looks kind of big though.

i love that mantis head, i would have made it a bit longer less bulkier (if i was able to do gs sclupting like you!!) but i still love it!

Have you considered using terminator heads?
They have a longer, more insect-like shape...

@#bossasaurus - Haha, I knew subconscious memories would pop up somewhere! I'm sure the helmet with the forehead blade is derived from an 80s alien-insect-robot-suit anime that I can't remember the name of

@commander Cain - The pics really bring out the worst in them, patches that I have sanded smooth look like I have gouged them with a cheese grater! but yes they should look fine when painted.

@munch munch @ The blade is from a skaven axe-thing and is about 3mm thick, I needed it that thick so that I have a better chance of casting it repeatedly BUT either gitsplitta or I can shave it down post casting to give it a leaner shape. It a pretty basic shape so the different heads can be carved and notched differently for each model. I will post up a side on pick to show its true shape later today.

@Sageheart - Lol, To get a "true" Mantis head I will have to go shallower and wider! Mantis heads in general are almost like hammerheads, the eyes make up most of the head itself and the mouth is relatively small.

@Dragon Warrior - I am planning on sculpting a set of Termie heads but they will actually be for terminators, I havn't thought of using them on Power Armour, will have to see how they turn out and maybe they can be put to a different use!

Thanks for the comments guys, I was starting to think I had killed Gitsplitta's thread!

Cheers

BLACKHAND

Bossasaurus wrote:"Waspinator under attack! Waspinator engage enemy! Waspinator: terrorize!"

YYEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


Lookin good BH. I like the 1st one.

Mantis helms looking good there - not much of a reply I know, but it seemed the page was stuck so just trying to free it up

actually - on the subjest of the lines of bumps, if you tried creating them using dots of pva glue like some peeps use for rivets would that stand up to casting?

edit: hmm, didn't seem to work, still couldn't get to this page, let's see if editing this works...

Funny you should say that Monkytroll, I had trouble with a thread flicking over to a new page the other day, curious..

As for PVA I will give it a go and see how it stands up cheers for the suggestion!

Heh, I know Tony-nids had a few issues with this on his 'nids thread, 3 pages in a row if I recall

Guyver you mean? The second one reminded me of Waspinator, who is fooken' classic in beast wars... I love em, and would like to see more insect themed parts, like the chaos raptors feet but more insecty

Loving those helmets, very unique whilst retaining just enough of the space marine shape so that they don't look out of place.

Can't wait to see them finished.

@Bossasaurus - GUYVER! thank you !thats been bugging me all day

@Wib - Thanks! I was kind of hoping for a helmet that shows the Mantis theme while still being something that the Imperium would outfit their marines with,

Yeah, i couldn't remember the name ether- so i googled it. Erm, did you think about making like Mantis variant Mk?

Thats all up to Gitsplitta, a variant armour would be cool, but expensive in the numbers we are talking about,

I do want to try and convince Gits to try out a single engine jumppack like the sanguinary guard, with mantis wing "control vanes" instead of feathered wings....but we will see.

That would be VERY cool. Sooo are ur sculpts expensive? & how far away from Auckland is Whangarei?

Hey guys! Whenever Blackhand posts new sculpts I make a point of laying low so I don't squelch discussion and ideas. But this seems like a point a which I should make a comment.

Blackhand, love the new sculpts, very insect like. As previously mentioned the crest is a little chunky but your points about the necessity of casting are well taken. I'm wondering though if in resin, that bit will end up being a bit fragile and have a tendency to break? My thougt is that if you were to take the same shape & curve it along the back of the head just a bit. It would still stick up & be a notable crest, but would be less prone to breakage. Also you could support more of it directly from the dorsal ridge of the helmet so it would be more solid. I'm probably not describing it well but I think I can draw a picture & post it if you'd like.

I'm *very* interested in some jump packs. Truth be told I had already given away or traded away all of my standard jump packs in anticipation of using some of Paulson Games 3-engine jump packs... but as there is no production date for those (they're still WIP at the studio) I am very, very open to suggestion. I really love Chapterhouse's pre-heresy jump packs for projects like the chaos mantis warrior or to go with any Mk 6 marines... it fits the time and they are really sweet. But for a modern, newly equipped mantis warrior I need something that looks new-tech.

I'm open to anything you want to try Blackhand. I'll keep you in skaven stuff up to your neck if need be. I don't necessarily need dozens of a body sculpt... maybe just a few here or there for special figures, the command squad, vanguard, etc.

Gits

Hey, the shoulderpads look amazing. I'm loving them. Keep it up, and we need more paint. just to remind us you've not lost it

LOL! Thanks Imp. The Great Marine Swap has sucked away most of my painting time... that and my orks recently to get ready for yesterday's tournament. I'll get back to the MW's as soon as I can. I want to get the venerable dreadnought done as he is such a good compliment to my sternguard.

I have a couple of spare jump packs - which you're welcome to - but I also have some interesting insectoid wings from a Rackham Scarab-thing; want me to mock you up a giant buzzy jumpack which, ultimately, you could cast?

The helmets are freaking awesome Gitsplitta and if you wanted to you could also do a predicon themed chaos chapter
8O but very nice helmets

@Bossasaurus - Whangarei is about 3 hours away from Auckland, and as for my sculpts, I am really not sure yet! The work I am doing for Gitsplitta is more about helping out a fellow Dakkite with a fascinating project, I will be starting a few commissions in the future and I hope to work out some idea of what to charge...may even set up a commissions blog so people can contact me and set up work.

@Gitspltta - As for the crest I think I see what you mean and I can dummy up a version of what you are thinking of..I think.
I keep thinking that since there will only be 10 or so sergeants I should just add crests and antennas to a basic cast helm post-casting to save on casting hassles. I can then use thinner more blade-like crests ( literally the tips of skaven halberd blades ) which will look better and be stronger as they are plastic.

I will have a play with some GS on a few chest plates and see what I come up with but as for jump packs I just don't have any to hand. If you see any Sanguinary guard jump packs in your travels it might be worth picking up a few.... I think they echo the long body shape of a mantis better than the double engine pack and with insect wings we could have them folded when the marine is landed and spread when "flying", I don't know just thinking

@Inmygravenimage - I'm sure Gitsplitta would enormously appreciate another variant jumpapck, I for one would love to see what your take on a mantis pack would be!

Cheers

BLACKHAND

i didnt know that!! then i guess go for a more hammerhead looking head.

So in between frantically submitting an online paper I realized was due today and putting my 2 year old to bed I had a go at the insectoid mantis head...and ended up with a fly rather than a mantis



I thin the problem was trying to keep the grill rather than go full tilt and making the wedge shaped face that a mantis has, once the GS dries I am going to go over the whole thing with extra GS and try and save it.

here is the side on shot of the "guyver" helm I promised days ago it show s the silhouette that I am looking for.




And just because no update is complete without a creepy video check out this page (scroll down about half way down) this is probably the weirdest thing I have seen all week

http://www.animalwebguide.com/Praying-Mantis.htm


C&C is welcome as always

Cheers

BLACKHAND

Haha, that vid is awesome!!

Not sure about the new helmet atm, i'll wait and see further progress before making a judgement.

That side profile helmet is perfect though, rerally top-notch stuff there!

Hey guys. Sorry for the delay in commenting but after spending about 15 hours gaming and or traveling for gaming on Saturday I had to take a day off (other things to do).

@Graven: I would be delighted to see what you can design! I haven't tried casting yet, but I've been following Blackhand's blog on the subject & anticipate giving it a whirl, so yes... I could cast them. Thanks my friend.

@vignor : Predicon?

@Blackhand: I can get some of those packs for you & send them with your bits.

@Blackhand (again). Sorry, but the fly helm made me LOL. *grin* It would make a GREAT Nurgle marine helm! The side view of the crest helm looks impressive. Be interesting to see what the angled crest mock-up looks like in comparison. I have no problem if you want to experiment with a wedge shaped helm, that was kind of what I was thinking from the get-go. It does however, fly in the face of our idea to try to keep it within the realm of a plausable IC. However... it might be fun to try at least one and see how it turns out.

I think the problem with the "Fly" helmet is that the head profile looks a bit off.

Mostly the eyes, I think.
I was reading that link you posted, and noticed that mantises (mantisi, mantidie i dunno >< ) have more oblong eyes that lie closer to their head, not the bulbous spheres like a fly.
Though perhaps after adding the mandibles to it mebbe it'll change its profile.

In any case, its awesome work. Im definitely looking forward to these guys getting paint on em!

Actually Ramos it depends on the species. Some mantid species do have eyes that really stick out from the rest of the head... not quite *that* much.... but significantly far to be obvious.

Gitsplitta wrote:@vignor : Predicon?

Ala Beast wars.
Maximals vs. Predicons!

EDIT:

hehehe

Gitsplitta wrote:Actually Ramos it depends on the species. Some mantid species do have eyes that really stick out from the rest of the head... not quite *that* much.... but significantly far to be obvious.

Ahaaaa I see i see.
Perhaps mandibles would lend balance to the helmet visually. As well as moving it from "The Fly" to "Da Mantis!"

Had a look at the wings alongside a jumppack this morning in between getting kids up. My plan is to use the lower section of a standard jump pack largely unmodified and a cut, filled and gs'd upper part thereof, but keeping them separate from the wings so that you can cast the wings and either cast the jump pack or acquire standard ones and trim yourself. This should lend the model more stability, as the wings are actually slightly longer than a marine is tall; however, an assault marine on a standard base should be tall enough.
Here's the source model:


Anyway, I'll photo and blog the process, and do side-by-sides with conventional jump packs.

Sounds like a great idea graven... boy that's a seriously cool source model.

Try removing the side vents altogether to give the Mantis shape to the helm bring it to a pointed chin no front vents as well add vents at the rear if that all makes any sense.

Beyond that wow awesome work once again!

I couldent bear to mutilate such a lovely model though :S, though it will be going towards a very worthy cause.

Thanks guys! this feedback is helping a lot with the process.

I will be filling the the vent on the face of the mantis helm and extending the eyes inwards to give a tear-drop shape, I am determined now to get a decent mantis head!

will also try and get that crested helmet prototype done tonight as well Gitsplitta.

The Mandigorn is in bits anyway. I never really got round to building a Scarab army :( My vast Scorpion horde was always more interesting... anyway, OT, I have the Torso/head piece still, if anyone wants. I think I stole the legs a while ago for an aberration. Wings are currently soaking in Fairy Power Spray...

I love all of the heads. I would keep the larger head you have shown as your seargent or HQ head, rather than the bladed "guyver" head, as I really think it will help those marines stand out.

For the "guyver" one, maybe have the blade more angled back? It kind of gives me a rhino horn feel atm.

I think another thing to try would be to "lift" some of the large side mandibles and have them connected only at the back, possibly with some webbing between the mandibles and the helmet (like webbed toes, not spider webs).

Okay, here goes; apologies for shanghai-ing your blog mate

Only packs I had were BA ones, so needed iconography removed and section trimmed out:


Here you can see it alongside the wings:


GS with a higher than normal amount of vaseline was moulded in and pressed to fit:




The imperfections in the metal are really apparent from this; having loving smoothed the gs with newly-acquired paint-shapers, it's now all bumpy from being impressed:


For casting purposes, they are now separate. Yes, this makes for seriously chunky jump packs but, hey, this is grimdark, and the sanguinary guard ones are hardly more sensible! C&C folks?

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Hmm... pictures not loading...

[edit] fixed

They seem pretty massive, any chance of a pic on-marine?
May be better if just the wings got used, rather then the swirly carapace thingy.

Actually I was thinking that you'd just mount the lower half of the engines into the wings, as if the rest of the jump packs were being hidden by the wing structure... that would keep them close to the body at least.



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Dang it graven... now I need to go find a copy of those wings... you got me thinking of all kinds of things. There goes my productivity for the day. I'm thinking that it might work better to deconstruct a set of Chapterhouse's pre-herasy packs as they're round in cross-section already. Then hollow out the wings to accomodate the barrel-shaped jets *or* trim the jets to about 3/4 round and mount in the deep "shoulders" of the wings. If the wings are still too bulky, cut off the actual "wings" and just mount the elytra with the jets... that would harken back to an idea Whalemusic had months ago...

(apologies for the stream of consciousness)

Waiting for gs to cure...

I agree, they're vast, but no more so than Sanguinary wings. To remove the swirly-ness would be complex and messy, though certainly doable with patience and a jeweller's saw; I'd rather leave that option open to Gitsplitta. Still, your point is valid, and much appreciated! A further idea is to shift the pack section so it's more vertical, thereby making it protrude less, though that could be tricky.

Another possible source for wings might be:

Fairly sure I've got one somewhere...


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Oh - you don't need to find a copy of the wings. I'll just send you mine. I don't plan on making a army any time soon.

Might be worth making a copy ala resin, cutting the wings off, and trying to put em on the Sang Guard packs in lieu of the angel wings*. Ive had good luck with 1 piece molding so far, I'll have a go at some more things and move on to 2 piece. I can shoot you the site and recommended products for it git.

*note: Dibs on the extra wings

Further stream of consciousness: you absolutely could mount the bottom half of a jet pack flush to them. This I also can provide (be filthy angels though).


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I second the dibs!

Hmmm... problem with my elytra idea is that it'll look like a chaos jump pack. Hmmm... I wonder if you could mount the understructure of a chaos pack to it with less angle contrast. It wouldn't be so obvious that it was chaos as much would be hidden beneath the wing structure... but it might work. The chaos packs are very insect looking to begin with.

Heretic! No, wait, that's what everyone else thinks of them...

Let me clarify... I'm talking about the Chaos Lord jump pack...



Further Edit... Chaos Raptor jump pack... I know it's risky fluff-wise, but with a little trimming of that lower ledge on the wings, I bet they would fit in very well.


Actually, the more I look at them, the more I'm convinced that if you were going to develop a two engine jump pack rather than a single engine as Blackhand is doing, the raptor pack would be the place to start. They just... fit. I could definitely see these as hero's packs... hold overs from ages past. Still using the ancient constructs that existed from ages past.

BLACKHAND wrote:So in between frantically submitting an online paper I realized was due today and putting my 2 year old to bed I had a go at the insectoid mantis head...and ended up with a fly rather than a mantis



I thin the problem was trying to keep the grill rather than go full tilt and making the wedge shaped face that a mantis has, once the GS dries I am going to go over the whole thing with extra GS and try and save it.

here is the side on shot of the "guyver" helm I promised days ago it show s the silhouette that I am looking for.




And just because no update is complete without a creepy video check out this page (scroll down about half way down) this is probably the weirdest thing I have seen all week

http://www.animalwebguide.com/Praying-Mantis.htm


C&C is welcome as always

Cheers

BLACKHAND

that fly head is amazing!! i love it sooooooooooooooooooooooo much!


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those wings are awesome too!

@ Blackhand - love the head spike!

Here's an alternate set of wings, from the Rackham Maeri fig, side by side with that chopped up jump pack:


My temptation would be cut in half and mount them on the jets. What does the assembled wisdom of Dakka think?

nice work on your chapter , paticularly like the chainsaws and custom helmets pure genius, the chain link shoulder pad is a good idea as well . btw almost forgot all about the mantis chapter , that takes me back to my youth :-)

I think those would work best split in half and mounted to the Sang Guard packs.

Hey graven, I just ordered like... 5 of the sang gd packs for Blackhand, don't think he'd mind too much if I split one off & sent it to you for experimental purposes.

No worries , the more minds working on this the better

hAhahah. this is becoming even more awesome!

Anyone thought of these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Conversion-Bitz-Dragonfly-Wings-10-Warhammer-/250579119019?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a57adebab

I've seen them, a little butterfly-like for me..I wass thinking of something longer, leaner and with more angular ends..just me though!

Think dragonfly wings...

have you thought of elsewhere where other conversions could be made, such as dreds or tanks?

and this may be hard to do but do you have (either earlier in this thread or in person) of the full army so far!

Do I have what of the full army?

a picture

sorry

As far as the re-painted army is concerned, there is hardly anything to photograph. 4 sternguard & 2 dreads is it. If you want to see my functional army, look at my battle report a few pages back.

Those Rackham wings might work, but I think they need to be a bit chunkier than they are ATM.

OK guys, need some fluff advice... precipitated by Ice asking me for a name for the guy I'm doing for him.


I've always named my marines with Romanized names as that was the universal style when I began playing. Goto however, has made the MW's a Japanese oriented chapter. I must admit, a preying mantis is very Asian in it's feel. Question is... where to go. I do not feel the least bit bound by Goto, however... I think the Asian thing is a good fit, so how to I transition & explain it?

Here are my thoughts: The Mantis Warrior homeworld, like our own world is not populated by a single uniform race of humans, but many races, and many hybrids thereof. The two largest populations are Caucasians who traditionally follow a "Romanized" martial structure, and Asians who follow a code of Bushido. The followers of each philosophy were not strictly limited by race, but did tend to fall along those lines simply due to tradition and exposure. Before the Badab war, Roman tradition dominated the Mantis Warriors and even brothers of Asian decent tended to adopt Roman names within the chapter. With the disgrace of the Badab War and the execution of the Roman chapter master... the Bushido wing of the chapter gained prominence, and now members are much more likely to retain their Asian names instead of adopting a Roman one.

This allows me to exercise a little discretion in naming while at least giving a nod to the written stories.

After the B-war, didnt the traitor-turned-untraitor chapters loose their homeworlds (had to give em up)? Sounds like a totally reasonable transition point to me.

Agreed, it could be that upon their defeat in the rebellion many of the mantis warriors became deeply spiritual and reflective. To represent this many brethren changed the names in recognition of their spiritual rebirth.

Stolen from the wiki:
The Badab War

The Mantis Legion was one of the three Chapters of Space Marines that joined the Astral Claws Space Marines in rebelling against the Imperium during the Badab Uprising. However they later rejoined the Imperial forces and joined the attack on the Traitor Huron Blackheart and the Astral Claws. At the end of the rebellion, the Mantis Warriors were granted the Emperor's forgiveness for their rebellion, and as their penance they were required to undertake a hundred-year Crusade against all of the Imperium's enemies without the possibility of recruiting new members of the Chapter until the penance was completed. The Mantis Legion's homeworld was forfeited to the Loyalist Space Sharks.

So the older marines with the roman names could be the vets from the old homeworld. The new Asian names could be from where ever they are getting new recruits. The fluff is almost asking you to change naming schemes.

A friend told me that this was a great thread. And I agree! The Mantis Warriors look fantastic and BLACKHAND's helmets look brilliant.

Keep up the good work Gitsplitta, BLACKHAND and inmygravenimage!

Looking forwards to more updates.

I for one would love to see some new finished minis. I guess I will have to wait patiently! the converted heads look great - are you converting the entire armour or just the head?

weetyskemian44 wrote:I for one would love to see some new finished minis. I guess I will have to wait patiently! the converted heads look great - are you converting the entire armour or just the head?

You can't possibly want to see progress worse than I do.

After I finish Arakasi's nob, I'll take a break from my trades and finish the venerable dread... then a trade, then a sternguard, etc. That way I make good faith progress on my trades while still not completely forsaking my own progress.

Stop repeating yourself Gits its a sign of old age.

Stop repeating yourself Gits its a sign of old age.

LOL

You have no idea how right you are. I couldn't remember if I'd hit the submit button (apparently my post was lost in the ether) so I paged back and hit the submit again.

*sigh*

I like the justification of where the names are coming from. I was thinking though, do the Mantis Warriors get a new homeworld after their crusade or do they end up like a permanent crusader army recruiting wherever they go?

Not sure. Maybe IA9 or IA10 will say, but I couldnt find it in the current fluff. Btw, that the Space Sharks got it makes it even more of an insult

Gitsplitta wrote:As far as the re-painted army is concerned, there is hardly anything to photograph. 4 sternguard & 2 dreads is it. If you want to see my functional army, look at my battle report a few pages back.

will do! i thought you had a huge army made up! i will lok soon!


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found the pics, it was nice to go back and see what organically grabbed my attention with this blog!

As to the home world situation...

There's nothing official dealing with the home world situation. They *must* have a source of recruits since returning from crusade, but there's no telling if they would have been given their original home world back or have been given a new one. I suspect that the Space Shark presence on their original home world would have been very unwelcome and probably led to unrest, revolt and subsequent violent quelling of the rebellion by the sharks... and perhaps that was the ultimate punishment. The ruination of the Mantis home world by a rival chapter with the tacit "approval" of the Imperium. I imagine that giant mantids that would have served as the right of passage for MW scouts would have been hunted to near extinction and bits of them decorate the quarters and gear of Space Shark commanders across the galaxy. Entire generations of people would have been raised under the yoke of Space Shark oppression and occupation, and long-held traditions and cultures would lie shattered and broken.

Given this... the last part... the cruelist part of the punishment for rebellion... would be to return the shattered remnants of their home world to the Mantis Warriors, so they could see what their betrayal had wrought.

I could also see that secretly, the Mantis Warriors would vow to bring about the destruction of the Space Sharks in whatever ways were afforded to them, however long it took.



We'll see what the IA's bring, but I don't expect much... nor would I feel bound to adhere to it.

Is there really a chapter called the space sharks...


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o


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or am i missing out on a joke!

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Sharks

They have been renamed for the new IA books however. But no pulling of chain at this time.

whalemusic360 wrote:http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Sharks

They have been renamed for the new IA books however. But no pulling of chain at this time.

What? They were renamed? Are they now the Sharks from Space?

Yup, if i wasnt tired and going to the realm of ...zzzZZZZZzzz... I'd link ya. maybe morrow.

Theyre now called the Carcharodons or something. Stoopid idea in the first place, like rainbow warriors!!

I guess back in the day they didn't have the inquisition rooting out the daft, twee and kitsch! I think space sharks are slightly less daft than rainbow warriors (who are named after a greenpeace boat?); Far too happy sounding for the 41st millenium.

whalemusic360 wrote:
So the older marines with the roman names could be the vets from the old homeworld. The new Asian names could be from where ever they are getting new recruits. The fluff is almost asking you to change naming schemes.

I like the idea of keeping roman names for the Veterans, that's pretty nice... Maybe for the Tranquility Detachment?

I'd maybe have another possible reason for the change in names.

On Space Marine Homeworld, the population are almost always warriors & warmongers; what if the then-dominant Caucasian "race", who was the main resource for recruitment, had seen most of his best young soldiers sent to the Mantis Warriors to make up for the losses in the early years of the Badab War? After a few years, its former glory waned in favor of the Asian "race", hence forcing the MW to move the bulk of the recruitment to the rising Japan-style nations?

In the last moments of the Badab War, only the veterans would then be of Roman tradition, with the young bloods having Asian roots...

Which could lead to some interesting inner conflicts & plots fluff-wise, and would join Whalemusic's theory about veterans!

Gitsplitta wrote:As to the home world situation...

"The ruination of the Mantis home world by a rival chapter with the tacit "approval" of the Imperium. "

"Given this... the last part... the cruelist part of the punishment for rebellion... would be to return the shattered remnants of their home world to the Mantis Warriors, so they could see what their betrayal had wrought."

"I could also see that secretly, the Mantis Warriors would vow to bring about the destruction of the Space Sharks in whatever ways were afforded to them, however long it took."

I especially like the forced returned to their shattered homeworld... It would really be in line with these dark ages & the Inquisition's "subtle" ways, and would even ensure the weakening of the MW's influence, for the population would surely consider the MW to have forsaken them in the face of tyrants & butchers! They could prove to be reluctant in sending their young boys to those that have betrayed them...
And this could further foster the grudges against the Space Sharks (whose name sounds cool for us non-English natives, but probably looks as ridiculous for those that are English native speaker as it is for me in French : "Les Requins de l'Espace"! Sounds like a poor name for an even poorer cartoon )

Yggdrasil wrote:I like the idea of keeping roman names for the Veterans, that's pretty nice... Maybe for the Tranquility Detachment?

I'm liking this idea & it goes along well with where my thinking was going as well.

Yggdrasil wrote: maybe have another possible reason for the change in names.

Interesting, though I'm not sure from the fluff if recruits could be hurried through the system like that. I thought that chapter's would visit a world once a generation or so and only find a few worthy recruits. It does make for some interesting dynamics though. Who knows? Perhaps the chapter's participation in the Badab war was linked to some struggle for power on their home world, when the battle was lost the Romans were discredited and the Asian culture came to prominence, as such all post-crusade recruits would come from that culture (primarily)?

Yggdrasil wrote:I especially like the forced return to their shattered homeworld... It would really be in line with these dark ages & the Inquisition's "subtle" ways, and would even ensure the weakening of the MW's influence, for the population would surely consider the MW to have forsaken them in the face of tyrants & butchers! They could prove to be reluctant in sending their young boys to those that have betrayed them...
And this could further foster the grudges against the Space Sharks.

Interesting point... I'll have to consider this in the context of the whole.

Maybe the sharks genocided the roman culture knowing it would piss the MW off.

that sounds a little too chaotic. and i am pretty sure the imperium would be pretty pissed if they found out that the Space Sharks genocided half a race. btw good thing they changed the name Space Sharks it abretion SS would set some bad blood with some pepoel.

Not if they thought they roman population was the reason for the MW rebellion to begin with. They it would be open field day, sponsored by the Inquisition.

im so sad a chapter is called space sharks, can we please kill them off.

i think a genocide would make sense as whalemusic says in the post above. maybe a mass suicide could be in order, or something more natural such as a plague, thou the people would see it as punishment from the god-marines

I dont think there is anything wrong with the name space sharks - what gets me is their daft emblem!

mass suicide is something i would sooner expect from the asian side. no offense but they have a history doing that when there defeated hirakiri (if i typed it right).

and you are right never thoughed about a rebellion.

ahh but romans were a bit keen on suicide for the disgraced warrior too - at least if Shakespeare's Julius Caesar is to be believed. But maybe not mass suicide I'll give you that

I do not see mass suicide as an option for a people strong enough and fierce enough to provide source material for space marines. Genocide, perhaps... suicide, no.

but pride Git pride can mak you do a lot of things. and if i was space marine material i would have a lot of pride. and there the dominant race there they felt there pride taken away by the MW maybe that set them off.

@ fatty: that is what i thought. pride can make people do some crazy things. It could even be pious thought: that they are joining the emperor and the god-marines in space. Or i was thinking of the Buddist burning themselves on the streets. It is a symbol of not being under the control of the tyrant, that they can take the planet but the people can't be taken. and it sure takes a ton of willpower to sit down burning in front of a city hall building! I'm sure a marine scout wanna-be would have that willpower.

and i understand the idea of that feeling more asian, but if you look into history mass suicides have been done all over the world so it isn't really more-so for one culture or not.

IA9 is a very interesting read. Sadly, it looks like most of the Mantis Warriors fluff will be in IA10.

Sad for you, that is. I play Lamenters!

Possibly (regarding the Asian/Caucasian problem), if the Inq saw that the prominent "traitors" in the chapter were of the Caucaision race, assuming that they held the majority of seats of power, then the Inq might have completely destroyed the old system.
I.E. lots of investigations into powerful Romans, with hte Space Sharks assisting against possible uprising.

Afterwards, then the old system of Roman 'rule' would have crumbled and the Asians would have taken the fore, with possibly more and more off-woulder Asians recolonizing the planet.

Possibly?

I like that DE... while I understand the mass suicide idea, it just doesn't feel right. Yours however, feels appropriately big brotherish to be plausible.

A bit like the first battle for Armageddon, a planet too valuable to destroy, so they remove the indigenous population and supplant them with another.

It p.o'd Logan Grimnar who swore vengeance against the administratum because of it..... maybe the MW's see what has happened to their homeworld in a similar light (good honest strong people standing up for themselves, being done away with).

With their world shattered and a home they barely recognise, their ire is raised against the Space Sharks for allowing such a travesty to occur.

Maybe fearing a taint on the homeworld infected the chapter and the peoples the space sharks and inquisition kept the new people under their gumboots.

It is now down to the Mantis Warriors to rebuild and re-educate the populace in the honourable ways from a time before these settlers came and lead them (sort of a hearts and minds thingy). Might be stupid, but could reverse things and have Asian names for elites and roman names for new recruits (new settlers)

Another alternative would be that the (Roman)population faced decimation after the mantis warriors left. 1 in 10 killed (by their own) as a punishment for a crime they barely understood and then kept under the heel of the Space Sharks.

Due to the losses and the loss of trust from the Imperium, the more asian caste began to influence then dominate the socio-political scene on their homeworld.

Mantis Warriors then have the chance to select recruits from less numerous romans or more powerful/ numerically superior asians

Going off on tangents.... too much going through my brain information overload and its way late here..... just found this and it is amazing.

I need to shut up now

Just took a moment to read some of the back and forth on the naming system and fluff and I have to say, as much as I already liked this order of SMs, the rivalry and genocidal grudge brings so much more to it.
Great bit of background, even just in that one paragraph. I don't think it has to be full blown genocide. Rather just culling the strongest and must rebellious against the SS, the wealthier too. Stealing all of the resources and dignity from the planet and it's people.

Very dark indeed! Playing devils advocate. As with all persuasive cultures of the Imperium; The home worlders may not have see the “changing of the guard" as a negative. Being loyal more important than being declared a traitor? Once convicted how loyal would the common man share the punishment?
I’d rather believe that some traditionalist would have fought against change, but most would see the new masters as likely the same; only different. A modern example would be professional athletes. Some folks root for the players, requardless what team they play on ( Green SM or Silver SM are still SM ) Some root for the actual team. Still if that team is sent to play in another league (sector of space). There is no one to root for.
Now figuring in the religious power instilled over the Imperium in it’s heavy handed approach to force the civilian population into submission, I doubt the loyalties lasted much longer than a generation if that much. After all 100 year crusade is beyond the life expectancy for the poor bastard in the 41st century.
Lastly, I doubt the Space Sharks would give back the world they feel rightfully won and were rewarded. Especially to the very chapter they once considered traitors.
I’m guessing all SM chapters are not so divinely viewed as well as the Ultramarines and civilian populations are not all loyal to the grave.
Here’s to starting the war up against the Space sharks anyway! If you need a excuse to join against then go ahead and use the “Social justice” mantra… I’m in either way. (Just because I hate the name – and anything using the word “flame” )

Wait, are we talking about Battle Brother Favre or the MW?

Hi, i was wondering how the weapon ideas for the MW's were coming on?
I was taking a break from my wolves, and was messing about. Wondered what you thought, do they look mantis-ish?

" border="0" />
Trying to imitate a mantis forelimb, could imagine a disembowelling stroke with the outswing and stabby death with a backhended strike.

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Similar concept but just running the length of the forearm, flicking ou the wrist to create a mantis forelimb appearance, also quite compact for stealth.

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Similar again, but trying to get a more organic shape by putting half a sword blade on the flat of the chainsword.

Just ideas, hope you like them, if not, it's cool

I think you have them reversed sort of... that is if you're trying to duplicate a preying mantis arm. Here is the basic design I'm going with, though it will be fine tuned a bit in the final version.

Hey mate, I have a couple of these if'n you want after using my cephalyx for parts:
https://store.privateerpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=8287
(one on right)
And
https://store.privateerpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=8244
(one on left)

Gitsplitta wrote:I think you have them reversed sort of... that is if you're trying to duplicate a preying mantis arm. Here is the basic design I'm going with, though it will be fine tuned a bit in the final version.

While I really like this idea for the blades, I can't help but feel the teeth on those would get caught on each other, especially the second one. I'd be tempted to cut off the teeth closest to the join, so it's two shorter sets of saws

I like them too, esp the left arm, and i agree too with what you are saying about the teeth.
Unless of course the teeth are mini blades which do not move, in real world terms you would need some type of mechanism at the crease/ bend to stop the chain becoming loos and flopping about or pulling taut and looking like a bow, so removing the teeth at the bend, to appear as if they go in the cover and round the mechanism might be an idea.

Yes mine are kinda reversed, but you could just as easily remove the teeth on the outside edge or turn the blade around, like the 3rd pic so the teeth are against the forearm and the blade outwards to get a less boxy more organic edge. Then if te model flipped his wrist up the ways it opens like a mantis arms do.

Gitsplitta: I was just throwing ideas out there, and I am grateful you took the time to look and read them before giving your opinion. I do think what you are doing wth the MW's is very nice and very in depth, it shows you are putting a lot of thought, heart and soul into this which is sometimes lacking in others who often do an army because it is a fad.

I also like that you can have time to do this and share the hobby with your kids and have a family life, you seem to have struck a good balance, something which i am trying to do too (family life part, my son is 8 months old so needs a lot of attention I dont let him share my models lol).

Keep it gong, this is rapidly becoming my favourite part of Dakka.

@graven: Not sure if that was directed at me or not. Those are really cool arms, but a little too insect like for my uses. Might work on a MoTF conversion though... Hmmmm.

@endtransmission: The direction of the blades is very specific... and please keep in mind that the photo shows an old iteration of the mantis arm. In the chaos version I did for Styro I removed the the last couple of teeth or otherwise modified the design to represent the teeth missing each other. Chainsaws have a tendency to bind, so if the blades drew into each other a single object could get jammed between them and shut down the whole weapon. My orientation is designed to pull the victim forward and down, putting them in a very vulnerable position as automatically clearing any jams.

@dantay: No worries friend, I did not mean to be critical... just giving my opinion. I do like your ideas... especially the ax blade on the upside-down chainsword... very sweet looking. Also very special-forces looking. Please feel free to propose ideas and experiment... you won't get any grief from me. Your contributions just make the blog better and better!

Gits

Gitsplitta wrote:@endtransmission: The direction of the blades is very specific... and please keep in mind that the photo shows an old iteration of the mantis arm. In the chaos version I did for Styro I dud cull the the last couple of teeth or otherwise modify the design to represent the teeth missing each other. Chainsaws have a tendency to bind you see, so if the blades drew into each other a single object could get jammed between them and shut down the whole weapon. My orientation is designed to pull the victim forward and down, putting them in a very vulnerable position as automatically clearing any jams.

I've no problem with the direction of the blades, it makes good sense to drag the person towards you with them. It was purely that the teeth looked like they would catch on each other

In that case you are correct... those teeth would catch on each other. I suspect a real working version would actually involve three chains... two on one of the blades with a gap in-between for the third chain which would be on the other blade. That's way too complicated to depict on the model though, so I just shave a tooth or two off the adjoining ends so it doesn't look like there would be a problem.

@gits: that's exactly what I was thinking. Also, have a look at rackham scarab/mantid warriors as I can savage mine happily for bits.

Have to wait 'till I get home to check them out... but I will. Thanks graven!

Gitsplitta wrote:In that case you are correct... those teeth would catch on each other. I suspect a real working version would actually involve three chains... two on one of the blades with a gap in-between for the third chain which would be on the other blade. That's way too complicated to depict on the model though, so I just shave a tooth or two off the adjoining ends so it doesn't look like there would be a problem.

But it's not like you're building a real, working version of those.
Right?
RIGHT?
AAAAAA! GET IT OFF ME AAA- Splat

I do own TWO chainsaws...

And really, why do you need two arms?

I think you could do it... but it would require one long continuous chain and a mechanism for keeping the chain taught as the "arm" bent. Not impossible, but the chains would be moving in a direction that would encourage binding, so I don't think it would work very well. It would look a lot like my chaos chainsword actually, you'd just have to slightly tweak the angle of the two saw blades so that the chain could pass itself without contact.

A search of google provided no real-life examples of a hinged saw... thought their might have been some bizarre industrial application or something.

Final Note: As an experienced chain saw user, let me state that I would never, ever, actually build a chain sword as I suspect that as little as 30 seconds of actual combat use would result in the immediate death or dismemberment OF THE USER. Neat idea for a model...but totally insane, unbelievably stupid. Just like a plasma weapon... only death would be much more certain and much more painful.




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dantay_xv wrote:Gitsplitta: I was just throwing ideas out there, and I am grateful you took the time to look and read them before giving your opinion. I do think what you are doing wth the MW's is very nice and very in depth, it shows you are putting a lot of thought, heart and soul into this which is sometimes lacking in others who often do an army because it is a fad.

Actually I should have read your post more closely & I would have understood better where you were going with your designs... mea culpa. Both of your designs would be excellent for close-in fighting... consistent with your stealth comment. That double-bladed mother would be nasty... as I mentioned before I like the other one too. It's a bit more elegant which I find appealing.

Hey Gits! just thought I would post a pic to let you know I am still workin on the helmets

I figured I would pour a mold of the four "basic" helmets so that I could convert up a few to try out more ideas..Ok, so I ran out of SM heads to convert so I needed more



As you can see I had to GS a few bubbles that formed at the top of the mold, those face vent and mandibles are hard to get to cast well but practice makes perfect and I have bunch more to go so they should be casting fine by the end!

Cheers

BLACKHAND

BLACKHAND wrote:Hey Gits! just thought I would post a pic to let you know I am still workin on the helmets

I figured I would pour a mold of the four "basic" helmets so that I could convert up a few to try out more ideas..Ok, so I ran out of SM heads to convert so I needed more



As you can see I had to GS a few bubbles that formed at the top of the mold, those face vent and mandibles are hard to get to cast well but practice makes perfect and I have bunch more to go so they should be casting fine by the end!

Cheers

BLACKHAND

HEHE well done matey... nice I really like them so original!

I have had some success (lately) in bubble removal try adding a further hollow to the mold so the item I want is in the middle of the cast not the top or bottom which is where I seem to get most of my air trapped example below



When I do this I seem to get nearly zero bubbles in my actual work but plenty of bad ones in the hollow, just an idea not even sure if you have tried it before.

Those look great blackhand! I just got the last of your bits yesterday so I'll have more supplies to you in a day or so!

Just can't get over them... so cool.

Thanks man.

Does this mean we will get to see some pics of assembled MW's??

When the various parts come in... still waiting on the pads & of course Blackhands work, which is at the moment on the other side of the planet. Then I actually have to buy a modern marine set... I don't actually own any marines newer than Mark VI save the few I've traded for.

Sounds good....
I never hear stuff about the Mantis warriors, the only stuff I hear about in the Badab war are the Lamenters, and obviously the red corsairs.

Ah, no worries...... just helps build anticipation. Am looking forward to seeing how they turn out. Blackhands, scuplts look amazing. All in all this has been an amazing adventure watching how your army is unfolding.... even though i just joined recently.

Well, in hopes of moving things along I'm seriously considering the purchase of an air brush in order to facilitate the base coating and highlighting/blending of marines and vehicles (3 drop pods, 2 LS Storms, 3 more dreads). I have another thread requesting assistance that has gotten really helpful responses.

If that happens, I might be able to make some actual progress on my Mantis Warriors in spite of all my other responsibilities... which would be nice.

Yes, I have been watching Sons of Orars threads and i saw your thread too. I have been finding it interesting how useful they can really be.... I always thought it was only good for doing the basecoat.

I am seriously considering buying an airbrush too as i have 11 vehicles and 18 squads of marines to churn through.

Let me know how you get on with the airbrush.

I know the UK is a bit far away but any time you need a hand, let me know, i could use a distraction

Hey dantay, you should check out some of the U-tube instructional videos that were recommended to me... wow, the highlighting and blending possibilities of an airbrush are seriously formidable. Granted the people doing the demonstrations are experts, but I think with a little practice just about anyone could master the basics. It's just one of those things where you'd want to have several pieces ready to go at the same time so your time cleaning the brush in-between colors and afterwards is worth the productivity of using the brush.

Will do. I think I can manage that (the number of models i mean).

At the mo, my painting style of choice is drybrushing as space wolves lend themselves well to it, but i really want to learn some new skills...... its been a few years since i properly picked up a brush in anger, so still knocking some rust off, and relearning old techniques.

Plus with all those models, airbrushing could be quite quick and effective.

So do you plan to build all the Mantis Warriors at once and paint them or build bit by bit and paint as you go?

Besides the models done so far

I've always been a paint-as-you-go kind of guy. That leaves more room for growth and new ideas to filter in over time. Heck, if I'd have gone ahead and built everything when I first decided to start this project, Blackhand, Whalemusic, Chapterhouse & graven would have never gotten involved (just to name a few) & it would be a much poorer effort as a result.

Yeah, i am a bit of a nut-job and get over excited and buy everything then build it all at once....... then with a sea of plastic in front of me, i realise what a mammoth job i have and it never gets done.

I ended up trading/ giving away a bunch of armies as i could never do it all.

I think build and paint as you go is definitely a better way to do it.
I got all my wolves done, but now i am just breaking it down into bits so i can work in manageable chunks, so my blog is a challenge for me to get it done.

I am impressed with how much like a community it is is in dakka, where everyone actually talks, listens and shares ideas... not mud-slinging and stuff. i am really enjoying it and its making modelling a fun experience too.

Hope all goes well with the Mantis Warriors and they get to kick some star fish tail.

Thanks dantay... funny that I feel the same way about Dakka, but it has a terrible reputation for being a flame fest. Guess it's just like real life, it all depends on who you hang out with. I figure the same people I hang out with on dakka would be the same group I'd gravitate to if all dakkaites were placed in a big room together & left to sort things out on our own.

Sure some of the fiery personalities would be fun to watch and listen to for a bit. But eventually I'd get bored and want to go hang out with the people who's work I appreciated and who had similar ideas about the hobby as mine.

Really dakka is an interesting group. Some of the sections are like piranha tanks (YMDC, News and Rumors) but others are more tight nit groups, especially the P&M blogs. You may notice people tend to group together though, which is a bit odd and I cant explain. I'm guessing it has to do with being on the same approximate level of modeling and painting, though not necessarily in the same groups. For instance, Git and are some of the biggest contributors to each others blogs. He is a much better painter then I, and, at least according to him, I make very unique models.

That's what's cool about it... WM is a great builder, I'm a decent mid-level painter, Blackhand puts us all to shame with his modeling, etc. We all feed off of each other's strengths and learn from them. WM & Porkuslime kind of spearheaded the marine swap idea which has thrown a bunch of us together and given us a real reason to push ourselves beyond our normal limits for both painting and modeling. So we all get better and perhaps more importantly from a community aspect... help each other improve.

So while none of us are superstars... we're all getting better far faster than we would on our own. And let's face it, there's nothing wrong with a little constructive criticism OR a little positive feedback now-and-then.

Of course you can tell my comments and mentality about dakka revolve around the P&M aspects. While I have gotten great advice in the tactics sections & enjoy reading & occasionally producing battle reports, it's much harder for me to develop a cadre of friends in those venues.

I agree 100% about the personalities. I think the diversity is great, so far 3 skaven armies in 40k (atleast) and each from a different codex IG Orks and nids for example.

I am the same, i hope that at the end of the day, although i enjoy seeing loads of stuff, i can build a core group of friends, where ideas and stuff can be shared and have the same passion for the hobby, and do things in the spirit of the game. Not to be uber-competitive, its meant to be fun, or atleast thats how i feel

dantay_xv wrote:I am impressed with how much like a community it is is in dakka, where everyone actually talks, listens and shares ideas... not mud-slinging and stuff.

whalemusic360 wrote:Some of the sections are like piranha tanks (YMDC, News and Rumors)

I was contemplating whether to warn him or let him keep those rosy thoughts a little longer - YMDC eats piranhas for breakfast! Actually I've noticed Gitsplitta getting out and about more - though that may be observer bias... Still - the P&M Blogs are mostly safe - and I'm glad to have been inspired by some great people here from around the globe.

I have a feeling that people tend to gravitate into cadres due to time, once you have a critical mass of subscribed threads it takes upwards of an hour to properly read and post on them every day!
If I was to skim through dakka for new threads each day I would never get time to paint or model so I end up reading the same threads and talking to the same people (not a problem though!) though I do try and check out the busy P&M threads on the main page to keep up or pick a friend at random and go through their threads and subscribed threads to see if I am missing anything .
Not sure if time is an issue for everyone but it certainly is for me

BLACKHAND wrote:once you have a critical mass of subscribed threads it takes upwards of an hour to properly read and post on them every day!

True...

BLACKHAND wrote:If I was to skim through dakka for new threads each day I would never get time to paint or model

True, especially considering my "slow & purposeful" P&M skills

BLACKHAND wrote:so I end up reading the same threads and talking to the same people (not a problem though!) though I do try and check out the busy P&M threads on the main page to keep up or pick a friend at random and go through their threads and subscribed threads to see if I am missing anything .

Again, true...

BLACKHAND wrote:Not sure if time is an issue for everyone but it certainly is for me

True, true and ... True! [strangled voice] Or could it be possible that you are ME instead?!? [ends strangled voice]

Silly Yggs.... *grin*

Yeah, when I started on Dakka it was all 'right got to get some stuff done to put up' and now it's more 'okay I've spent far too long looking at dakka, get off my butt and do something..'

Which I guess is a cue to do just that

I agree with the general sentiment... as the foolish caretaker of 4 active blogs... it can take a lot of time. Though they each wax and wane as I'm able to put my time into one project or another. Nice thing about this one is it's kind of assumed a life of it's own, which is nice as my substantive contributions have been few and far between.

i think it depends on the person writhing the blog. i read and post on all of gits blogs just because there fun and easy too read. and i can read he does this for the love of the game and not finding the most cheesiest almost breaking the rule army that always wins despite the fact your batteling a 3 year old kind of army. more the kind of person that says he my army sucks but its fun anyway. corect me if i am wrong.

Nope, you're right on fatty. While I like to play well, I'm not hung up on winning. Much more interested in a fluffy, interesting and characterful army that is played to the best of it's ability. OH, and fully painted to the best of the owner's ability.

The other thing that causes groups, at least for me, if the topic of the Blog. I tend to hang in the SM threads because its the armies I play, and can therefore understand a little better. Until I know a person anyways, then I will check their other blogs out.

The GMS (and all those orks) have helped me diversify though, and has also largely taken on a life of its own. I feel more like the MOD of just that blog then the "Author" of it.

WM - right right>

I lurk, cause 1. its; nice to share my hobby - though I spend little time doing it. 2. I learn and am inspired by others and hope that I someday I do the same. 3. I need something other than the corp. grind to fill my head thus avoiding thoughts of Chaos.

I don't know How GIts and WM manage to juggle so much. I'm thankful for the distraction.

PS.. let see what new in the MW world!

I can do it cuz I work on the computer all day and have little else to do. Not sure how gits pulls it off (I suspect clones)

I tend to just stick to the p & m section occasionally swap shop and tactics. Rumours and gossip arent for me.

Its because the p & m is what gets my juices flowing, and sharing ideas and learning for me isthe most fun part i love the creativity which in its way we all feed off of and it does inspire us to try new things or push ourselves a bit further

For me, some of the aspects of tactics is great for a bit of insight on what to do, but most of the time the tictacs are meh!! because for me i just want to have fun trying new stuff as and when i game.

For example last night, i used rhinos for ramming and took out most of my friends trukks (causing a big log jam in the middle of the board which slowed him down no end lol) just for the heck of it, as i wanted to see what would happen.

Sometimes using unorthodox techniques can pay big dividends. And besides, they're usually a lot more fun than just doing the same stuff everyone else is doing!

Gitsplitta wrote:That's what's cool about it... WM is a great builder, I'm a decent mid-level painter, Blackhand puts us all to shame with his modeling, etc. We all feed off of each other's strengths and learn from them. WM & Porkuslime kind of spearheaded the marine swap idea which has thrown a bunch of us together and given us a real reason to push ourselves beyond our normal limits for both painting and modeling. So we all get better and perhaps more importantly from a community aspect... help each other improve.

So while none of us are superstars... we're all getting better far faster than we would on our own. And let's face it, there's nothing wrong with a little constructive criticism OR a little positive feedback now-and-then.

Of course you can tell my comments and mentality about dakka revolve around the P&M aspects. While I have gotten great advice in the tactics sections & enjoy reading & occasionally producing battle reports, it's much harder for me to develop a cadre of friends in those venues.

you give great writing about how wonderful these things are!! i love reading these comments, i always agree!


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i skim a lot as a break from work, i can do homework well if every occassional hour or so i check back here and post a comment or two. its a nice break for me. though i usually lately really focus and come back to the P&M blogs

It's definitely the P&M blogs for me, as I haven't played since Rogue Trader days, although I'll occasionally skim some of the other areas. I agree with wm too on the topics tending to create groups, as my main project is my cyborks I tend to hang with other orky users, with odd forays into other things as they catch my eye or I recognise the author. There does tend to be a cross-pollination of ideas though as someone mentions something they've seen elsewhere in relation to whatever the current topic is, and that's one of the great things about dakka. Here on the P&M forums everyone just seems to be in it for the love, whatever their particular brand of love is, and a lot of the time peoples passion for their hobby shines through. I've been interested and engaged by several bat-reps even though I don't play - although I can see me starting to get interested again as I continue to hang on Dakka

that is true ^. i'll almost never look into eldar or tau stuff. though anything imperial, ork, or chaosy i'll look into.

Well. minus the chaos part and replace that with eldar and i look into it.
And i have been playing since 3rd
anyway Glitsplitta are you going to make anymore lore for the mantis warriors or no?

Yes, as need be. I'm not going to generate lore just for the sake of doing it... I'm not that good a writing and what I do takes a *lot* of effort (i.e. it's not a natural process for me). That being said... whenever it appears that a good bit of writing will help advance the feel of the chapter... I will certainly do my best. Whatever I do will probably be in short snippets of a paragraph or two. Little mini-stories that add color and flavor without actually trying to nail everything in place exactly. I'll leave the story telling to those, like IceAngel, who are good at it.

word haha cant wait to see more!

Gitsplitta wrote:Yes, as need be. I'm not going to generate lore just for the sake of doing it... I'm not that good a writing and what I do takes a *lot* of effort (i.e. it's not a natural process for me). That being said... whenever it appears that a good bit of writing will help advance the feel of the chapter... I will certainly do my best. Whatever I do will probably be in short snippets of a paragraph or two. Little mini-stories that add color and flavor without actually trying to nail everything in place exactly. I'll leave the story telling to those, like IceAngel, who are good at it.

Speaking of lore, have you had any more fluffy snippets in mind? I want to make sure the marine you send me is written and portrayed like he is really from YOUR version of the Mantis Warriors.

Maybe you could whip up a nice paragraph of what he is like, pre-marine swap.

that sounds awesome!

OK Ice, without tipping your hat too much, PM me his general situation (i.e. where he is and what he knows about how he got there) and I'll write something up for you. Might even use that as an excuse to introduce/summarize my version of what happened to the home world.

can you post what you figure out what you write here?

I spend almost all my dakka time in p&m. I've made some great mates globally and learned a heck of a lot too.

@gits/blackheart - if you're amenable, bh could send me a mantis head and I'll model up a full marine with insectoid jump pack.

Sure Graven I can definitely send you a couple of helms to choose from, if Gits agrees of course

You're kidding right? OF COURSE! I'll get his jump pack on the way too.


@Sage: Yep, I'll post what I come up with. Got my instructions from ice so it'll just take a bit of brainpower and a *lot* of editing.

Lol, i am sitting on the floor, legs crossed arms folded, hunched forward..... ready for the next installment

Ok people I have some new pics!

Really just variations at the moment, working with the casts of the "basic" helms is saving time but it's still slow going...damn Real Life!!!

first up is my VERY WIP Insectile Mantis Helm, now close up it looks rough as hell but its actually smoother than this and will be hit by several grades of sandpaper as well.





and yes that is apparently a hair sticking out of the GS, god I hate Macro photos

next are some pics of the different crests I have dredged out of my bits box









Now after seeing these pics all I want to do is paint them up to prove the sculpts aren't as messy as they look, honest!!!

Last is me having a go at antennas, using dark elf crests form the cold one knights box, not hugely sold on them and the are VERY fragile



Well that where I am at the moment Gits' I am still forging ahead with the casting of the basic helmets cause I want to send you some to work with as soon as possible but to all you loyal watchers of the Great Mantis Revival I still would love some more ideas, the wackier the better!

Cheers

BLACKHAND

Woah Blackhand those are AWESOME!
My favorite crests are the second and third ones- and that full insectoid helm is amazing Green-fu.

Incredible sculpt on the insect helm... man is that AWSOME!

I'd pay to have real molds made of that one so it could be case in metal.

The crested helmets are all great, but my favorites are 2 and 3 with 5 a close third. Actually I can see #5 being the communications specialist for each squad. The insectoid helm could be reserved for the Vanguard (with the mantis arms and special jump packs).

Wow... (sound of jaw dropping)

yeah, those are fantastic. I think I like the last pic the best, but the more variety the better. Overall, amazing work blackhand, please keep it up!

immensly awesome sculpting

Git yours and tony_nids are the most original and fresh spacemarine plogs out there imho...its always a pleasure to click the link to your plog cause i know its never a disappointment
waiting inside...thank you and also to black hand your work is amazing

The Helmets look excellent.

AWSOME

Awesome sculpts man..

your lucky Gitz..

I'm voting for 'fantastic' I love the antennae and if they were display pieces I would say do it - but I've noticed gits likes to play with his army so maybe not

I really like the bugeye ones.

Excellent work as usual. 2nd and 3rd crests for me, like the antennae too, maybe have them facing forwards instead of back?

My son like # 3,4 & 5. He calls the one with the spikes the "stegosaurus one".

those are very sexy helmets. love them all!

I think Numbers 3 & 4 are the best. Number 5 is full of charcter. Not sure on the second one though.

Just a note... I'm taking a break from all of my GMS and ork painting and will be working on my Ven Dread until it's completion. So I hope to have something decent to show by way of progress this week. Here's hoping anyway! I should also be getting an air brush this week. Already have a compressor (tested it yesterday... should work just fine) and I've stocked up on paints and such, so after a bit of practice you may see quite a new look for my MWs... hopefully a good look. I'm going to keep it in the same style of course, but I hope the blending will be generally better and it should go much faster. As a result... rather than building just one figure at a time then painting it, I'll be building them in small groups & painting them (as least spraying them) all at once.

We'll see. Keep your fingers crossed guys, I'll need all the luck & good wishes I can get for this transition.

Gits

Good luck, good wishes!

Nah but seriously airbrushes are ace, youll have good fun experimenting! Excited to see what comes to fruition!

yeah, good luck with the airbrush and let me know how it goes.

Out of curiosity, I bought a gw one...... what a pile of fething gack, am on my 3rd one as they have had defective valves, the only way to use it is to overtighten, then it still leaks.... 2 tins of propellant later i have airbrushed 10 terminators

So good luck and we await your results with baited breath

Quite a bit of progress tonight. Yellow is done, gold trim is done. Got base coats on the base just to differentiate it cleanly from the yellow figure. The gold trim will show more clearly when I get the details and camo pattern on.

that looks awesome!

Really nice!!!

I still think you should add yellow camo to the head though...

Looks classy Gits! I'm glad you are still running the dual autocannons I am planning on kitting out one of the Sabre Legion dreads the same way. I don't know if they are as useful as they are cool looking but who really cares

These are cool I was just wondering if these are a chaos space marine force (most likely) or a very individual looking loyalist force either way the helms look cool, I am slightly worried about the lack of definition in the mould around the eye areas on some of the casts but I'm hoping that's photo trickery

The Macro photos don't help the helmets at all, I have pondered throwing some paint on a couple to give a better idea of what they look like....as for the chaos look, its really up to gits which ones he wants to use, they are post badab Mantis so they would definitely want to keep away from any chaos taint.

Loving the dreadnought, it loolks wicked

@Sage: thanks!

@Yggs: Thank you for reminding me... I'd forgotten. I'll add them eventually.

@Blackhand: dual autocannons are very useful, you just need to shield the dread with some infantry so it doesn't get molested in H-t-H. I run mine with my sternguard as a screen and they make a potent combination!

@mullet: They are a loyalist chapter that rebelled against the Imperium, then surrendered. They lost their home world & were sent on a 100 year "suicide" crusade into the maelstrom as punnishment. The shattered remnants of the chapter have now returned, and they are rebuilding slowly.

@dantay: thanks my friend. Still a ways to go, but made good progress last night. Painting the base made it suddenly look a lot more finished.

Big challenge coming up... I want the tablets on the dread to be painted like marble, so we'll see what I can do.

@ blackhand: if gitsplitta agrees, i think you should do a sample paint of a helmet or 2(but check with gits for the exact colour scheme). Considering how small the helmets are in reality, i do not think they are rough at all..... they are nicely done.

Gits: the marble idea is great, almost gives it a heroes mausoleum feel, will be intersted to see how you go with it as i struggle with detailing like that. I am a bit sloppy so sometimes i start with the darkest colour first and work yp to my lighter ones.

Are you gonna go for black marble shot through with gold or the classical white/ light grey with dark grey, black through it?

@dantay: The only good tutorial I've found is for grey w/ black veins. I think it'll be a good counter to the yellow/black theme of the rest of the piece.

@Blackhand: I'm fine with you painting some of the helmets to see how they work. They'll end up being cast anyway so the painting won't matter.

BLACKHAND wrote:Ok people I have some new pics!

Guyver???

and that dread looks sweet what head will you use for it? or are you just going with that standard one that's already in there?

question though how do you get the yellow so good? I tried an imperial fist army a while back and it's put me off painting yellow for life!

The Guyver
was made into a movie in 1991 with a 1994 sequel

CIA agent Max Reed witnesses Dr. Tetsu Segawa—a researcher for the mysterious Chronos Corporation—being murdered. Dr. Segawa had stolen an alien device known as “the Guyver” from Chronos. College student Sean Barker, whose girlfriend’s father was Dr. Segawa, finds the Guyver’s hiding spot while watching the forensic team investigating the crime scene. Through further events, the Guyver fuses with Sean and causes him to be covered in a suit of bio-armor. The president of Chronos, Fulton Balcus wants the Guyver back and sends his mutant henchmen, the Zoanoids, led by Lisker to steal it back.


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Great movie, if dodgy :-) but awesom armour!