em_en_oh_pee wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Umm... what the hell?

Sorry if this has been posted already, but umm... measuring set? Magic cards? Special dice? WTF?

I like it. All the cards mean, most likely, is easier spell referencing. All the other stuff just looks cool, too.

One thing I am curious about, and I admit I hadn't delved into the whole thread, is what info has cropped up on the new box-set for the release. I heard it was Skaven vs. High Elves, but do we have more than that? Contents, etc? Cost?

Not convinced on the box contents myself, mainly given this years UK Games Day artwork, which is very much another Empire Vs Orcs ding dong, with lots going on. I know it's not much to go on, and hardly firmly puts down the rumoured contents, but usually the big release for that year features on the Games Day paraphenalia.

Could well be wrong of course!

Hey Doc, are you paid by GW to go onto different forums just to try and discredit all the rumours about their big releases? You always seem to be doing it.

Your saying its unlikely the rumours on here are true, be interesting to see how many are and what you have to say about it once its released... (Mind you it could be that if you do work in a store your bosses don't have 100% trust in you re information leaking hence not letting you see the new book etc)

Mick

Afraid not skip.

Seriously, I know absolutely nothing about the new stuff coming out, other than those pics in the other thread. Tremendous tightlippedness these days.

Not trying to discredit rumours, just trying to calm people down a little. No point crying over spilt milk, and even less point doing so when the milk is still in the bottle.

The local GW redshirts confirmed it's skaven vs. high elves this past weekend... I think that rumor is pretty much widely accepted (again, not to say it's 100%- no rumor is- but it seems very, very likely).

Am I the only one who thinks that folks will think "Oh boy I can turn my Lvl 4 wizard into a dragon", fly out and get ready to charge another unit, then only to have the remains in play spell dispelled and be very, very vulnerable all by himself.

Another thing I was thinking about - with casualties being taken from the back, how are Lvl 1/2 wizards in the front ranks going to survive? 2 wound heirophant in the front rank, unit get in combat. Sure kill some of the guys - I'm going to target everything I have at him, since I'm guaranteed to get the attacks back on him. I just think that it'll make wizards without any armor very vulnerable in combat.

Wizards are already very vulnerable in combat.... When i have my wixard on foot i put it in a cheep unit mostly for shooting protection. I dont want that unit in combat in 7th, same will be true in 8th.

Hey guys I have actually read the rule book and held it. Here are some things I got out of it with the 15 minutes I could read it. The rules are very sparse and random because I was looking for rules that would help my Lizardmen army build. So here is what I have got. You guys can take this however you want it, I know these are official rules. Hope you guys enjoy.

Heavens magic is just awesome.

Heavens perk is any flyer hit by heavens magic is damaged and then takes an additional D6 strength 4 hit.

1: 1st: Blizzard Spell cast on a 6

The spell acts like if weapons got wet in last edition. But anything with a BS and needs a roll to hit is -1 to hit. Anything with no BS needs a 4 plus to shoot. I believe there is more to the spell but that is the short and sweet description.

2ortent of Far is back but it is called something different

It casts on a 6 any friendly unit within 24 can re roll all 1s to hit wound and armour save. Or the buffed one casts on a 12 and any unit within the 12 inch radius gets the benefit.

3:Is a Wind spell:

This spell casts on a 7

It pushes a enemy unit back D3+1 inch directly away from the wizard if the unit hits any terrain it takes D6 S 3 hits. If the unit hits another unit both units take D6 S 3 hits. The stronger version casts on a 14 but pushes units back D6+2 Inchs away.

4: This spell is like portent of far but is a curse.

Can be cast on a enemy unit within 24 the unit must re roll any 6's to hit, wound, or armour save. This spell can be beefed up to effect any enemy unit within 12 inch radius.

5: Urions Thunderbolt is still there it is D6 strength 6 hits.

6: Is Comet which casts on a 12

The comet hasnt changed much. Once cast it cannot be dispelled. The Range is 2D6" plus an additional inch for every counter on it. The Damage caused by it is 2D6 strength is 4 but is plus 1 stronger for every counter on it. It comes down on a 4+. If it does not come down place a marker.

The Stronger Version is cast on 24+ Same as before but it automatically starts with 2 markers on it. And everyturn it does not come down an additional 2 markers are put on it.

7: Chain Lightening

It casts on a 15+ does D6 strength 6 hits on a unit within 24 of the mage. After you determine the results roll a dice on a 3+ you may choose a unit within 12 of the previous unit hit and then that unit is hit by D6 strength 6 hits. This continues until you roll a 1 or 2.

Random Rules:

Skinks can move and shoot blow pipes without taking a penalty of -1 due to they have quick shot.

Stegadons are awesome now. They have the Chariot rule as well as Thunderous Stomp. So they get impact hits for being a chariot. Then the Stegadons attacks. Then Thunderous Stomp which is always strike last but automatically hitting D6 attacks at the monsters strength. This can only be done to infantry sized creatures.

Kroxigors can use the ability Stomp which is the same as Thunderous stomp but only 1 auto hit instead of D6.

Magic levels only determine how many spells you can use thats it. Everyone generates the same amount of dice no matter what level.

Javilines and blow pipes can always stand and shoot.

Parrying can only be used against other Infantry Type models.



You may not parry Impact Hits, Stomped, Thunderous Stomp.

Oh and there is no blow pipe entry in the book I really dont know why. They have every other weapon in the book but no blow pipes.

Skirmishers do not see 360 anymore but have to face the direction they want to shoot. The easiest way for this is to put a small arrow beside the unit portraying which way they are all looking. So you dont have to individually turn each model to face the proper direction.

Magic Items:

Bane Blade 5 Points

- Any monster or character that takes an unsaved wound from this weapon perminantly loses 1 attack to a minimum of 1

I cant remember the names

- 60 point sword gives you plus 3 attacks

- 70 point sword gives you plus 3 strength it does not count as a great weapon.

There are now paired magic items. I got a glance but nothing concrete. This allow you the benefit of two hand weapons but count as magical.

Everyone knows this magic item already.

It is a 100 point magical Enchanted item. WatchTower

It is a actual watch tower that must be constructed by the player using it. If the player does not have an adequate Tower or Building the item may not be used. After deploying terrain and armies. The Player may activate the magic item and may place the watch tower anywhere in his deployment zone. It counts as a Defended building.

And again you dont have to believe me I really dont care. But I have read and touch the book. My buddy does have it. He will not put it online because he does work for the company.

Thanks for reading it and I will sned you more as soon as I read more.

That magic actually looks legit, not overpowered bs...

I find the two casting values VERY interesting. Higher risk for higher reward.

Some of the changes I don't like but I think will eventually work themselves out. However the one thing I think is a serious problem are the skirmisher changes. They sound needlessly clunky and look like they will seriously slow the game down. I'm curious what the intent on using them will be. It sounds like they are intended to be a ranked unit that you don't have a movement tray for which would take FOREVER to move around.

Oh yeah, so i talked to a shop owner who has the book (he let me see the cover) and has read it.

He basically said I just look at the posted crap and laugh, its absolutely hillarious how outlandish some of the rumored changes are.

He laughed at what I posted. LOL if he did then he def did not read all of the rules and he is just trying to lead you on a different path. That is what all GW employees are told to do.

I know these rules are the closest to what I could remember so I might have missed a few details but I know they are pretty accurate.

Have a good one guys.

has anyone been to bell of lost souls today? Apparently they have photos of the 8th edition starter set (minis and all). Anyone able to post them? I cant access the site at work....sshhhh...nor can i access the google images from there. So someone, somewhere get the photos and post post post.

X1Scotch1X wrote:He laughed at what I posted. LOL if he did then he def did not read all of the rules and he is just trying to lead you on a different path. That is what all GW employees are told to do.

I know these rules are the closest to what I could remember so I might have missed a few details but I know they are pretty accurate.

Have a good one guys.

No this was a few days ago. I dont know if he even looks at dakka, but i know he looked at the 8th edition rumor thread on warseer

Father Gabe wrote:has anyone been to bell of lost souls today? Apparently they have photos of the 8th edition starter set (minis and all). Anyone able to post them? I cant access the site at work....sshhhh...nor can i access the google images from there. So someone, somewhere get the photos and post post post.

I don't see any post about the starter set, only a post about the same pamphlet with books and gadgets a couple pages back.

Father Gabe wrote:has anyone been to bell of lost souls today? Apparently they have photos of the 8th edition starter set (minis and all). Anyone able to post them? I cant access the site at work....sshhhh...nor can i access the google images from there. So someone, somewhere get the photos and post post post.

You mean, the same pictures that we've had here on Dakka in this thread (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/297740.page) since yesterday? No minis to see. Just the rulebook, dice, and accoutrements.

Yes to that...(didnt see it) and no. Here is the link I had...I also google imaged the thread and found several sprue sets but once again, government computers wont allow access.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/06/wfb-sneak-peek-8th-edition-launch.html

EDIT:
Oh hell...just ignore me. I got a little more look at what I was seeing and in my excitement, the images on google were those of beastmen.

ShivanAngel wrote:That magic actually looks legit, not overpowered bs...

I find the two casting values VERY interesting. Higher risk for higher reward.

That was actually a staple thing earlier in WHFB, that they seemingly removed just to bring back.

And I did find the Portent Spell overkill, as "reroll all 1's" is a big thing in WHFB. Perhaps next edition it won't be as bad (because you're already killing a lot) but this edition it'd be nasty.

wow lore of heavens seems perfect for lizards now instead of.. half of the spells being fairly lame

X1Scotch1X wrote:He laughed at what I posted. LOL if he did then he def did not read all of the rules and he is just trying to lead you on a different path. That is what all GW employees are told to do.

I know these rules are the closest to what I could remember so I might have missed a few details but I know they are pretty accurate.

Have a good one guys.

Dude, to be fair I doubt anyone really knows anything. I know when I can expect to get my grubby mitts on it....

Oh Im sure some people know quite a lot.. Id bet atleast half of these rumors are true, we just dont know which ones

The rumors for the past 4 years have been fairly accurate

Id bet atleast half of these rumors are true

More than.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Of course.
Makes perfect sense to have a separate thread about the same topic.

What do the new dice, markers, measures and cards have to do with the rules discussion in this thread?

Kroothawk wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Of course.
Makes perfect sense to have a separate thread about the same topic.

What do the new dice, markers, measures and cards have to do with the rules discussion in this thread?

They'll all be new to 8th edition...

And it's an 8th roundup thread.

30 skink cohort in 2 ranks. move forward, throw 30 javelins, get charged, stand and shoot 30 javelins.

15 wide so stubborn 6 on 3d6.
Thanks to HW&Shield have parry

Awesome.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And it's an 8th roundup thread.

Then I misread the topic: My computer shows me "8th Edition Rulebook Roundup", and dice, markers and rulers are not a rulebook.
Okay, from now on I will post all news of 8th edition army books in this thread as well

Soo hung out in the GW today, Blackshirt said two things.

First after 06/15 anyone is allowed to come into the store and read the copy of 8th edition.

Second i could ask questions about the rumors and he would give me a yes or no.

2d6 power dice and highest roll is dispell-yes

Variable charge-Yes

He got pretty busy at this point and i couldnt ask any more.

He also said (cause i was buying an O&G codex) that daemons are going to be hurt pretty bad by the changes, making them even ground with everyone else. The kicker was he said it really looks like orcs and goblins are going to be the new daemons...

Impossible with animosity, Shivan. Unless the eratta makes some VERY large changes.

Karon wrote:Impossible with animosity, Shivan. Unless the eratta makes some VERY large changes.

Yeah it might of been cause i was buying the OG codex...

He just said cause of the new rules, we wont be seeing a new OG codex for a long time, it will make them that good.

Just repeating what i heard!

He was probably hoping for you to have a seizure and think he's smarter than the average balding male and buy a battallion.

O&G are screwed if strict Initiative order is the rule of the day. Toughness 4 won't get you very far if everyone else is faster and better and you have no armor. Not to mention what Animosity can do.

Kirasu wrote:wow lore of heavens seems perfect for lizards now instead of.. half of the spells being fairly lame

skink priest with cloak of feathers and the one that pushes things back. .... insta gibing first turn please?

Manfred von Drakken wrote:O&G are screwed if strict Initiative order is the rule of the day. Toughness 4 won't get you very far if everyone else is faster and better and you have no armor. Not to mention what Animosity can do.

At least it's not like 8th Edition will be giving the enemy more dice to throw in shooting & magic, or start putting out more "Initiative Test or Die" / "Roll a die for each model" effects.

:( Bugger.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:O&G are screwed if strict Initiative order is the rule of the day. Toughness 4 won't get you very far if everyone else is faster and better and you have no armor. Not to mention what Animosity can do.

Hey, you strike before Saurus.

Because Orks on foot got the charge a lot in 7th right? You get to ATTACK BACK in 8th.. charging is no where near as good

Just tell yourself that over and over and then it wont be as bad.. Forget everything you know

Im really hoping they dont become the new daemons in 8th cause i have started collecting them because they look like a blast to play, and a lot of fun to paint.

Animosty seems really brutal, but in most of my orc units there will be a black orc hero or lord to slap them around if they roll a one. Seems like that lone will stop the army from being completely destroyed by animosity.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:
O&G are screwed if strict Initiative order is the rule of the day. Toughness 4 won't get you very far if everyone else is faster and better and you have no armor. Not to mention what Animosity can do.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Hey, you strike before Saurus.

True, but that's because I play Empire, Dark Elves, and Chaos Warriors.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:O&G are screwed if strict Initiative order is the rule of the day. Toughness 4 won't get you very far if everyone else is faster and better and you have no armor. Not to mention what Animosity can do.

Seems to work fine in 40k?

whitedragon wrote:

Manfred von Drakken wrote:O&G are screwed if strict Initiative order is the rule of the day. Toughness 4 won't get you very far if everyone else is faster and better and you have no armor. Not to mention what Animosity can do.

Seems to work fine in 40k?

When you can throw 40 attacks, sure. That's NOT going to happen in WHFB.

Kirasu wrote:Because Orks on foot got the charge a lot in 7th right?

If you timed it right? Yes. Orcs could still either screen like the Pro's (what with some 60pt Fast Cav units that force the enemy to charge or sit there for several turns while 125mm of frontage is barred from their path), as well as a Waaagh (which more often than not would at least be a 50% chance of success, with 66% of the time being able to charge further than a M5 unit and 33% a M6). Often times, it became vital as well due to either having just a Big Boss & Mooks in the unit (who were I3 and 2, and thus would go last against many enemies and tie / go before a slim few) and the fact that they lacked armor to survive counter-blows - they had to rely on wounds to get anything approaching a favorable combat resolution (which, barring a lucky Shaga's General or a nearby chariot, would often mean only a two or three advantage).

Kirasu wrote:You get to ATTACK BACK in 8th.. charging is no where near as good

Attacking back is bad for Orcs.

I'm going to explain this one more time, because a lot of people (not just you) seem to be misunderstanding.

Standard Orc Protocol is to charge in or at least attempt to do such, the only exceptions being Night Goblins (who are solely meant to be as close to an "anvil" that O&G can manage) and some runs of Choppa & Shield Boyz (who are often run as the anvil in smaller games due to a higher natural leadership or in Wyvern lists where the General won't be near the ladz). When they charge, they look to get at least a good 2-4 wounds. The reason for this is two-fold: One, it gives them an additional 2-4 points of combat resolution (provided they used Two Choppas). Second, it denies the enemy two-to-four attacking models against them, thus denying most likely 1-4 (depending on the type of enemy) wounds being dished back. Orcs, after the first round of combat, lose their one advantage (above-normal strength) against regular troops, as well as - if they were chargers - their striking first.

Attacking back, even with an extra 6-10 models (another 1-3 wounds on average, depending on frontage and Big 'Un status), does not help the Orcs as they're still taking all those extra wounds. Orcs are not like Dwarves, Saurus, or Chaos Warriors: They can't expect to put out a parity of wounds for what they suffer, or even (in the Chaos Warrior case) come out on top. The Orcs can - with each side making full swings - expect to break even at best due to a combination of Lack of Psychology aid (no Hatred / Primal Fury), lack of Weapon Skill (meaning they often need 4's to hit, and in turn are being hit on 3's), a single attack base (As opposed to a Saurus' two, which can make up for their lack of WS), and a lack of an armor save (In order to get two attacks a model, and thus not have an average front only cause about 1-2 wounds on a charge pre-saves, they need to sacrifice all but a 6+ save). With all those combined, Orcs - usually - require either multiple standard characters (Big Boss and BSB, for instance), one good character (Shaga Sword general within 12" of at least two enemy characters), or - more often than not - striking before the enemy to the point that they can negate the number of attacks back so as to deny wounds against them.

Orcs in hand-to-hand can't ignore their wounds just like they can shooting, as every one they're inflicted is another hit (one-to-two models) and wound (now two-to-four) they must inflict to break even again. Since they have a low base Leadership (7, and 8 when with a Hero), if they lose by even one or two points what another army (Dwarves, Lizardmen, Elves, Skaven w/ Ranks) might consider small ("Oh no, I now have to test on Ld 7"), an Orc considers very bad ("I lost by two, I need a five or less to hold"). Since ranks will now (likely) be counted at the end of a combat round as well, it's very likely that - after the enemy's counter attacks - they will now be the ones who have more Ranks and are stubborn. Meaning that either the Orcs will win, but have to go up against a Leadership 8 or 9 Stubborn block (due to the fact that Orcs will be much easier to whittle down via shooting than whatever the Orcs are firing at), or the Orcs will lose against them and be testing on numbers that might have less than a 2/3 chance on a single die, let alone two.

This can be worked around, but the problem is not that Orcs need to change what makes them good so much as change their army to make them useable.

Minsc wrote:Second, it denies the enemy two-to-four attacking models against them, thus denying most likely 1-4 (depending on the type of enemy) wounds being dished back. Orcs, after the first round of combat, lose their one advantage (above-normal strength) against regular troops, as well as - if they were chargers - their striking first.

But now this isn't true, even if they did strike first. They still wouldn't be denying any attacks back.

And moreover, you're ignoring their potential staying power with the stubborn rules for large units, the parry rule, and the rules for a general within 12". I think a big block of boyz - the way they were intended to be played - will be fiercely competitive.

Scottywan82 wrote:But now this isn't true, even if they did strike first. They still wouldn't be denying any attacks back.

Pretty much. And when most of the Orc combat resolution comes from the static 5 (or as close as you can manage after being fired at for a few turns with Tzeentchian Wizards / Elvish Bolt Throwers / Empire and Dwarvish Cannons / Wood Elf Archery Spam) and combat res wounds (instead of, say, magic banners or special rules), and you can only be expected to cause about one wound for every three (Big 'Un) to four (Boy) attacks on a one-attack model (pre-saves, with the enemy often being better off in terms of to hit and / or armor), it doesn't help to give their enemies even more attacks.

Scottywan82 wrote:And moreover, you're ignoring their potential staying power with the stubborn rules for large units, the parry rule, and the rules for a general within 12". I think a big block of boyz - the way they were intended to be played - will be fiercely competitive.

The problem being that Blocks o' Boyz are going to have a merry ol' time going through a shooting & magic phase while keeping more ranks (well, if they're Big 'Uns). Boyz can get more ranks relatively easily, it being only about 246pts for a 6x6 block of Vanilla Boyz w/ full command. Big 'Uns, however, aren't going to be fielded in large numbers because a unit at roughly the same cost (250pts) with full command is some 14 less Boyz, with the same gear and unit upgrades. While 36 T4 5+ saves can likely reach combat (especially with the free reform) and start with some full three ranks, standard, and outnumber, the 22 Big 'uns are much less likely to reach having the exact same durability.

Regular Boyz can get stubborn relatively easily if spammed, but then they can't be expected to kill anything with 1 WS3 S3(4) attack apiece. They'll be able to anvil the enemy for several turns (especially if you were a cheesy git and bought Gorbad), provided the "one turn combat" thing is finally nailed in the coffin, but they won't win any of their combats. Now, while winning isn't everything for a single combat, spending some 250-300pts on several Orc Boyz units with the sole purpose of being there to die isn't exactly a fun thing.

The "Parry" rule doesn't particularly make the Orc Boyz any more durable, either: You could instead just buy some Savage Orcs, and suddenly you have that magical 6+ ward but now against everything. Actually, this edition will probably be great for Savage Orcs now that I think about it. Not great in that they're going to be good, but in that they won't be worse than regular Boyz now: The 6+ Ward means they're on-par with most Orc Boyz against S4 or better foes in hand-to-hand, they can't be charge-baited as easily with somewhere between Ld7 and Ld10 now (depending on if you have a special character, level of general, and so on) that must be lost to be forced forward, and get a few more of the very vital attacks for an Orc's combat resolution. Theoretically, blocks of regular boyz should quickly begin to phase out to armies of Gorbad-led Savage Orcs.

We were just looking at orc armies for 8th, and two of us are thinking of bringing them back out. Quite a few things available now, that didn't used to work as well.

Cheap orc blocks with 30+ boyz. Quite happy I have 3 of those equipped with spears. Lots of dispell dice with the staff of sneaky stealing and the banner that gives you 3 dispel dice.

Cheap war engines are now plentiful as well, now that you don't have to worry about special slots.

Overall, I'm just happy to be able to toss the army back on the table and use the 6k points of them that I own.

mikhaila wrote:We were just looking at orc armies for 8th, and two of us are thinking of bringing them back out. Quite a few things available now, that didn't used to work as well.

Cheap orc blocks with 30+ boyz. Quite happy I have 3 of those equipped with spears. Lots of dispell dice with the staff of sneaky stealing and the banner that gives you 3 dispel dice.

Cheap war engines are now plentiful as well, now that you don't have to worry about special slots.

Overall, I'm just happy to be able to toss the army back on the table and use the 6k points of them that I own.

Wow... I havent read the 8th ed book yet but I was talking to people last night about making a new OnG list for it and literally thought up the same things... 40 Orc Boyz units with big bossess (black orc of coarse!) in each and 4+ catapults? I think we threw Gorbad in there for the better leadership or something... Shall be so much fun to see 160-200 orcs on the table!

Kinda OT but I'm looking to get into Fantasy with this edition.

I'm looking at Dwarves, HE, WoC or O&G. I've read the rumors and have skimmed the army books but don't know enough about said armies to make any decisions.

I know I should look at what appeals the most and all those armies looks wise do so what of those 4 will seem to work best/easiest to learn to play in 8th?

Fateweaver wrote:Kinda OT but I'm looking to get into Fantasy with this edition.

I'm looking at Dwarves, HE, WoC or O&G. I've read the rumors and have skimmed the army books but don't know enough about said armies to make any decisions.

I know I should look at what appeals the most and all those armies looks wise do so what of those 4 will seem to work best/easiest to learn to play in 8th?

Until we have the book in our hands and know the new rules and playtest some, that question cannot be answered

I was just asking hyperbollically assuming rumors are true. I know it's a snafu to do so, just wanted more, if anything, opinions.

Basing decisions off of what we give you which is completely speculation and rumors, would be useless.

Well, not completely useless- some rumors are a pretty sure thing.

HE are a smart bet right now, since they'll be in the starter box!!! With a griffon! Yes!

I'm begging you- if anyone gets a look at the book before July 15th, can you double check the "need banners to claim objectives" rumor? Absolutely killing me...

(I'm looking at you, mikhaila )

I should be able to look at it for you RItides if I remember.

RiTides wrote:Well, not completely useless- some rumors are a pretty sure thing.

HE are a smart bet right now, since they'll be in the starter box!!! With a griffon! Yes!

I'm begging you- if anyone gets a look at the book before July 15th, can you double check the "need banners to claim objectives" rumor? Absolutely killing me...

(I'm looking at you, mikhaila )

I'll have my book this coming week, and even be able to talk about it! GW guaranteed I'd have it by June 15th, so I expect it a bit earlier. I'll take a look as soon as I can at the new missions. My impression of the random effects on terrain was that it would be doubtful at best that you'd roll for effects for the scenery. While random and fun, I can see it adding 30 minutes to a tournament game dealing with them. Scenarios I'll be checking to see if they are even usable in a tourney enviorment. Hope so.

That is what is drawing me to Dwarves right now. Sure the BFSP rules will be no good in 4-5 weeks but that is a good deal for how many minis a person gets.

Though I do like magic and unfortunately dwarves don't have any magic, per se.

Dwarves do have an advantage next edition, in that I'm pretty sure it's a special rule that they get +2 DD by default, and I think the Rune Priests get +1 DD under their own rule instead of "Like a Level 1 wizard" to the DD, which would mean that they pool DD just as readily as they would this edition.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Manfred von Drakken wrote:O&G are screwed if strict Initiative order is the rule of the day. Toughness 4 won't get you very far if everyone else is faster and better and you have no armor. Not to mention what Animosity can do.

Hey, you strike before Saurus.

and almost everyone gets their full attacks as stepping up is changing.

Horde armies across the board are going to be better. The rules almost exclusively favor Rank and File ground and pound time builds from what I can tell.

Any armies that take a lot of RnF will benefit.

Orks, Skaven, Humans, to some degree will all be terrifying armies.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Manfred von Drakken wrote:O&G are screwed if strict Initiative order is the rule of the day. Toughness 4 won't get you very far if everyone else is faster and better and you have no armor. Not to mention what Animosity can do.

Hey, you strike before Saurus.

and almost everyone gets their full attacks as stepping up is changing.

A lot of people don't seem to get that "everyone gets their full attacks" and "you get to fight with more ranks" is terrifying in a bad way for several armies.

Sounds good, Karon and mikhaila! I'm looking forward to putting the rumor days behind me, and knowing the facts

You and me both, haha. I don't even like to think about the possible implications of some of these changes for my beastmen....ugh.

Minsc wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Manfred von Drakken wrote:O&G are screwed if strict Initiative order is the rule of the day. Toughness 4 won't get you very far if everyone else is faster and better and you have no armor. Not to mention what Animosity can do.

Hey, you strike before Saurus.

and almost everyone gets their full attacks as stepping up is changing.

A lot of people don't seem to get that "everyone gets their full attacks" and "you get to fight with more ranks" is terrifying in a bad way for several armies.

I think its more or less that horde armies will be 10 wide (more models attacking) and getting horde rule (which is another attacking rank? more attacks?) 3 10wide ranks is pretty ridiculous.. I could be wrong, I havent read through rumors in a while.

Buttlerthepug wrote:
I think its more or less that horde armies will be 10 wide (more models attacking) and getting horde rule (which is another attacking rank? more attacks?) 3 10wide ranks is pretty ridiculous.. I could be wrong, I havent read through rumors in a while.

Horde is stupidly easy to counter, however, so long as the "must remain in base or catty-corner" remains. At least, for 25mm or above armies (Orcs & Beastmen). 20mm is where the cheese for Horde will be at.

At 25mm: Six wide front with a 20mm unit, or a five wide front with 25mm. First cuts twelve attacking models out of the picture, second cuts nine out of the picture. Or, pretty much, most of that third rank (or all of it, in 20mm case). It's the 20mm's that can abuse the rule most readily, especially stuff like Black Guard and Phoenix Guard.

Minsc wrote:

Buttlerthepug wrote:
I think its more or less that horde armies will be 10 wide (more models attacking) and getting horde rule (which is another attacking rank? more attacks?) 3 10wide ranks is pretty ridiculous.. I could be wrong, I havent read through rumors in a while.

Horde is stupidly easy to counter, however, so long as the "must remain in base or catty-corner" remains. At least, for 25mm or above armies (Orcs & Beastmen). 20mm is where the cheese for Horde will be at.

At 25mm: Six wide front with a 20mm unit, or a five wide front with 25mm. First cuts twelve attacking models out of the picture, second cuts nine out of the picture. Or, pretty much, most of that third rank (or all of it, in 20mm case). It's the 20mm's that can abuse the rule most readily, especially stuff like Black Guard and Phoenix Guard.

30 Pheonix guard is 450 points. No way that the Helves will be trying to abuse that rule competitively. Spearmen might try to abuse the rule at 9 points per, but they will be getting the extra attacks anyway up to 5 rumored ranks.

Off the top of my head, I honestly don't think that it, as a rule, will do much for horde armies. It's one of those things that looks neat on paper, but once it's all said and done, people are going to value persistant ranks and stubborn over 10 extra craptastic attacks. Horde versus horde may attempt to use this rule. But Horde vs Elite won't. Tournaments present an interesting problem because you can't guarantee that horde vs horde will occur, and bringing units THAT big would be a huge detriment. Instead people will balance their armies in a tournament setting to deal with all comers.

Minsc wrote:

Buttlerthepug wrote:
I think its more or less that horde armies will be 10 wide (more models attacking) and getting horde rule (which is another attacking rank? more attacks?) 3 10wide ranks is pretty ridiculous.. I could be wrong, I havent read through rumors in a while.

Horde is stupidly easy to counter, however, so long as the "must remain in base or catty-corner" remains. At least, for 25mm or above armies (Orcs & Beastmen). 20mm is where the cheese for Horde will be at.

At 25mm: Six wide front with a 20mm unit, or a five wide front with 25mm. First cuts twelve attacking models out of the picture, second cuts nine out of the picture. Or, pretty much, most of that third rank (or all of it, in 20mm case). It's the 20mm's that can abuse the rule most readily, especially stuff like Black Guard and Phoenix Guard.

Very true, regardless though, compare to now...
With corners, that's still 3 ransk of 7 guys... still rather ridiculous.

Skaven will end up liking the horde rule more then anyone imo.

Yeah they are only WS2, but you can get a 10x5 block for only 100 points... That block will have Ld 10 if within general range until you kill 15 models... Now imagine them with death frenzy which gives every model an additional 2 attacks... /drool

Don't do that - I already hate Skaven enough as it is!

Alpharius wrote:Don't do that - I already hate Skaven enough as it is!

Yes thats ummm...

hmmmmm

125 attacks.....

You wunna just say the unit is dead... Or are you gunna make me roll all that?!

Yeah, it will also help empire imo.. Most of the empire state troops are 100% garbage, however 50 of them is scary when 30 get to attack.. Might make halberds useful

if the stubborn rule works as it sounds.. yeah skaven slaves are gonna be a bit over the top, but we'll see.. they already were way too good. Hopefully the missions will balance out things just like they do in 40k

Kirasu wrote:Yeah, it will also help empire imo.. Most of the empire state troops are 100% garbage, however 50 of them is scary when 30 get to attack.. Might make halberds useful

if the stubborn rule works as it sounds.. yeah skaven slaves are gonna be a bit over the top, but we'll see.. they already were way too good. Hopefully the missions will balance out things just like they do in 40k

Yeah was hillarious when a star dragon charged a block of 25 slaves, held on a 6 then i was able to double flank charge his dragon, win by pure SCR, then overrun it...

YAY 120 points killing 400!

Death Frenzy wouldn't help second ranks, to my knowledge: Only one attack barring special rules specifically giving extra.

It also, if I'm not mistaken, causes Frenzy, meaning you'll only get those attacks on the charge.

Also, remember that they'll only be Leadership 7 stubborn in the general's range: FAQ says you don't get the "Strength in numbers" bonus for stubborn.

LD7 stubborn is still a really good chance with 7 being the most commonly rolled number.. Add a BSB nearby and possibly even more special rules revolving around the general and you got 100 pts of super awesomeness

Yeah you could flank them or something but thats A LOT of work to kill a 100 pt unit.. Should see the book soon

I must have misread that the horde rule gave them all their attacks....

still its a lot of attacks.

And what are the odds you wont be testing on a 10 with the gens ld, if you lose the combat by that much... epic failz!

Eh the problem is the stubborn rule Shivan.. I think thats the "other shoe" people are waiting for to drop

If it allows large units to be stubborn (say slaves) then it doesnt matter how much they lose by.. So you'll be taking 3 turns to get 100 points

Stubborn in a game revolving around LD tests is bad to give to every unit.. We'll have to wait and see how broadly they apply the stubborn brush

Wouldnt you get to pick the leadership to test on tho.

Say they are a stubborn 7, or a normal 10. You lose combat by one so you could test on the 9.

You lose by 5 so you test on the 7. Thats how it is now at least.

Yeah I agree that the stubborn rule will be a bit ridiculous... Although the sound of 200 Orcs... Some Black Orc Big Bossess... Gorbad... 4 catapults...drool...

ShivanAngel wrote:Skaven will end up liking the horde rule more then anyone imo.

Yeah they are only WS2...

Ahem, WS3 if you please (Slaves are WS2)

Flashman wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:Skaven will end up liking the horde rule more then anyone imo.

Yeah they are only WS2...

Ahem, WS3 if you please (Slaves are WS2)

read the rest of the post where i say a block of 50 costs 100 points, clearly talking about slaves.

Steadfast rule will give a unit the stubborn ability if it has more ranks than it's opponent, in HTH combat. The counter to a block of 10 wide slaves is a unit that's 5 wide and 6 deep.)

A stubborn unit may use it's leadership, or the leadership of the general, if he is within 12", or 18" if mounted on a large target, such as a screaming bell.

I think skaven will be really tough, but all armies will be getting this rule, and can choose troops to take advantage of it.

Also one thing to consider.. these 50 man units are going to be dying A LOT quicker if they get into combat due to multiple ranks attacking

Did you get the book mikhaila? If you did Legions should have also I know when to go down and look

ShivanAngel wrote:

Flashman wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:Skaven will end up liking the horde rule more then anyone imo.

Yeah they are only WS2...

Ahem, WS3 if you please (Slaves are WS2)

read the rest of the post where i say a block of 50 costs 100 points, clearly talking about slaves.

Apologies

The one problem though, Shivan, is that without a change to the Stubborn rules(particularly that part where it says they use the LD on their Profile), Skaven actually benefit LESS with the Horde rule than other Hordes.

I'm not a very experience player so most of the rumors i'm not sure how they will affect the meta game except for the obvious combat/movement changes. used my WoC, warriors, as a tarpit with 2+sv kickass now.. 3+sv with str4 attacks with a 6+ward save.. only for the first 5 guys.. With the change of parry im curious if we will see changes on how people will arm their warriors. Im thinking greatswords..attack in 2 ranks.. 4+ armor sv str 5.. might be better than that 3+sv/str4 attack..

on another note.. im more curious to how they will FAQ the codicies for 8th. How long does a FAQ take after the release of a rulebook?

Kirasu wrote:Also one thing to consider.. these 50 man units are going to be dying A LOT quicker if they get into combat due to multiple ranks attacking

Did you get the book mikhaila? If you did Legions should have also I know when to go down and look

We have books coming in on the 15th of June, which is the big unveiling day. I don't have a book yet. I'd bet Legions should have there's on the 15th as well.

@Shivan

10x5 skaven with spears = 40 models that can attack.

Death frenzy would give +2 attacks to the front rank only, so if they are all in base contact that goes to 60 attacks (presuming they have the models).

The skaven errata is the full 6 pages I believe.

GW Stores should be getting there's this week, to be shown off from the 15th only.

I may provide a Lol-O-Meter on the overall accuracy of the rumours if I get the time, 0 being 'bloody hell...spot on, all of it' with 10 being 'must be a paralell universe copy they read'

From Warseer, as books start to arrive in the stores..

Hey guys I have actually read the rule book and held it. Here are some things I got out of it with the 15 minutes I could read it. The rules are very sparse and random because I was looking for rules that would help my Lizardmen army build. So here is what I have got. You guys can take this however you want it, I know these are official rules. Hope you guys enjoy.

Heavens magic is just awesome.

Heavens perk is any flyer hit by heavens magic is damaged and then takes an additional D6 strength 4 hit.

1st: Blizzard Spell cast on a 6

The spell acts like if weapons got wet in last edition. But anything with a BS and needs a roll to hit is -1 to hit. Anything with no BS needs a 4 plus to shoot. I believe there is more to the spell but that is the short and sweet description.

2ortent of Far is back but it is called something different

It casts on a 6 any friendly unit within 24 can re roll all 1s to hit wound and armour save. Or the buffed one casts on a 12 and any unit within the 12 inch radius gets the benefit.

3:Is a Wind spell:

This spell casts on a 7

It pushes a enemy unit back D3+1 inch directly away from the wizard if the unit hits any terrain it takes D6 S 3 hits. If the unit hits another unit both units take D6 S 3 hits. The stronger version casts on a 14 but pushes units back D6+2 Inchs away.

4: This spell is like portent of far but is a curse.

Can be cast on a enemy unit within 24 the unit must re roll any 6's to hit, wound, or armour save. This spell can be beefed up to effect any enemy unit within 12 inch radius.

5: Urions Thunderbolt is still there it is D6 strength 6 hits.

6: Is Comet which casts on a 12

The comet hasnt changed much. Once cast it cannot be dispelled. The Range is 2D6" plus an additional inch for every counter on it. The Damage caused by it is 2D6 strength is 4 but is plus 1 stronger for every counter on it. It comes down on a 4+. If it does not come down place a marker.

The Stronger Version is cast on 24+ Same as before but it automatically starts with 2 markers on it. And everyturn it does not come down an additional 2 markers are put on it.

7: Chain Lightening

It casts on a 15+ does D6 strength 6 hits on a unit within 24 of the mage. After you determine the results roll a dice on a 3+ you may choose a unit within 12 of the previous unit hit and then that unit is hit by D6 strength 6 hits. This continues until you roll a 1 or 2.

Random Rules:

Skinks can move and shoot blow pipes without taking a penalty of -1 due to they have quick shot.

Stegadons are awesome now. They have the Chariot rule as well as Thunderous Stomp. So they get impact hits for being a chariot. Then the Stegadons attacks. Then Thunderous Stomp which is always strike last but automatically hitting D6 attacks at the monsters strength. This can only be done to infantry sized creatures.

Kroxigors can use the ability Stomp which is the same as Thunderous stomp but only 1 auto hit instead of D6.

Magic levels only determine how many spells you can use thats it. Everyone generates the same amount of dice no matter what level.

Javilines and blow pipes can always stand and shoot.

Parrying can only be used against other Infantry Type models.



You may not parry Impact Hits, Stomped, Thunderous Stomp.

Oh and there is no blow pipe entry in the book I really dont know why. They have every other weapon in the book but no blow pipes.

Skirmishers do not see 360 anymore but have to face the direction they want to shoot. The easiest way for this is to put a small arrow beside the unit portraying which way they are all looking. So you dont have to individually turn each model to face the proper direction.

Magic Items:

Bane Blade 5 Points

- Any monster or character that takes an unsaved wound from this weapon perminantly loses 1 attack to a minimum of 1

I cant remember the names

- 60 point sword gives you plus 3 attacks

- 70 point sword gives you plus 3 strength it does not count as a great weapon.

There are now paired magic items. I got a glance but nothing concrete. This allow you the benefit of two hand weapons but count as magical.

Everyone knows this magic item already.

It is a 100 point magical Enchanted item. WatchTower

It is a actual watch tower that must be constructed by the player using it. If the player does not have an adequate Tower or Building the item may not be used. After deploying terrain and armies. The Player may activate the magic item and may place the watch tower anywhere in his deployment zone. It counts as a Defended building.

And again you dont have to believe me I really dont care. But I have read and touch the book. My buddy does have it. He will not put it online because he does work for the company.

Thanks for reading it and I will sned you more as soon as I read more.

I like the magic tower artifact, reminds me of an old D & D magic item.

Guy is talking nonsense as far as I can tell.

Black Boxes shipped Monday...

Hmm... certain managers have already got their copies of the book.

Still no covinced about the above though.

But as I said, believe nothing until the book is in your own hands. It could be accurate, I simply do not know. But will know tomorrow or Friday!

I'm sure there's errors there, there generally are when people are excitedly skimming rulebooks for odds and sods.

But that tallies quite well with the gist of what we've been hearing for a while now. Especially the more impressive magic.

Yeah i dont understand the "believe nothing" attitude.. Rumors have been pretty accurate for years and years :p not totally accurate but mostly especially this close to a release

GW's iron curtain doesnt keep the west out completely

It's just me saying that though, and it's more to do with being wary of rumours being taken as fact. Lots of times you see people getting upset over a rumour which proves to have no substance, and rubbishing products on unbased suspicions.

That's all! Not setting out to call anyone anywhere a liar, just hoping to cool peoples heels a little bit. For all I know it's 100% accurate!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:it's 100% accurate!

GW employee states that rumours are 100% accurate?! Gah! Time to get upset and rubbish the product

reds8n wrote:From Warseer, as books start to arrive in the stores.

You disappoint me, reds8n
This post is 5 days old and originates from Lustria Online ( http://www.lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?p=31415#p31415 ), only copied to Warseer. Warseer even admits it 4 posts above the one you quoted:

Linky: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4710263&postcount=6565

certain managers have already got their copies of the book.

Store managers have had their copy of the paperback mini rule book for a couple weeks now so that they would be familiar with the rules when the preview launch begins on June 15. They were also told that they could not disucss the rules till June 15 under clear threat of job termination. Store operators in my area had a preview staff-only play test of the new rules last Sunday evening.

The large 528 page hardback rule book will be in stores for customer perusal on June 15. Employees will begin to freely discuss the new rules with anyone at that time.

BrassScorpion wrote:They were also told that they could not discuss the rules till June 15 under clear threat of job termination.

Anybody know somebody actually sacked for doing this? Why go through the hassle of puttting people through management training only to sack them for disclosing something pretty innocuous in the grand scheme of retail sales.

At my GW, the blackshirt said eight have already been sacked over the matter of giving information.

Because, you know, something that five years ago would be information plastered all over WD's and throughout Gamesday is now something that employees will be fired over.

@Minsc. Do you mean fired over giving information specifically about 8th ed rulebook?

That does not make me feel particularly good. I have tried very hard never to give away who has told me things.

@MDG. Sure, I agree some of it will be wrong/ wrongly phrased, but fortunately a fair bit of it has been 'confirmed' by people who have seen the book. So I think in the final reckoning most of it will be correct.

Of course, I have been a little sneaky, as I update it when things are reliably discredited and change the obvious errors. So it's a lot more accurate now than if you compared the sticky from a month ago to the actual book.

Grimstonefire wrote:@Minsc. Do you mean fired over giving information specifically about 8th ed rulebook?

That does not make me feel particularly good. I have tried very hard never to give away who has told me things.

Seemingly. He might have just made up a number and lied as a general "Stop asking us questions" schtick, but it could also be factual. I would guess it had more to do with those who are being blatantly obvious however, like "The Blackshirt Manager at [x] Location GW told me specifically that these rumors were true / false:". Not "So I heard from a RS today that [x] might be true."

If GW wants to be tight-lipped about their product, that's their perrogative. If they come down and say, "We will fire anyone who slips information,", and you slip information anyway, you really can't be surprised when you're in the unemployment line the next day.

Grimstonefire wrote:@Minsc. Do you mean fired over giving information specifically about 8th ed rulebook?

That does not make me feel particularly good. I have tried very hard never to give away who has told me things.

@MDG. Sure, I agree some of it will be wrong/ wrongly phrased, but fortunately a fair bit of it has been 'confirmed' by people who have seen the book. So I think in the final reckoning most of it will be correct.

Of course, I have been a little sneaky, as I update it when things are reliably discredited and change the obvious errors. So it's a lot more accurate now than if you compared the sticky from a month ago to the actual book.

'Nuff respek on the updates, innit bludd?

Didn't realise that to be honest, but seriously, top hole behaviour their young man!

My local GW has told me this Saturday is when they start taking pre-orders etc, I hope to go in and see what I'm actually pre-ordering then...

Mick

GWs corporate policy amazes me constantly.. What are they scared of? Another company stealing their WFB rule secrets and releasing a game before them? It's as if they think they're in the tech business and dont want to give away trade secrets.. Here let me give away your secrets

Step 1 ) Develop the only decent miniature war game on the market at the time and gather your followers for 20 years
Step 2 ) Constantly create new lower cost models and raise prices through the roof
Step 3 ) PROFIT (btw step 3 is always profit in anything anyone does)

When you have a total monopoly over a game AND the product is ALREADY completed how does leaking information damage anything? It can only increase hype..

They make no sense

My local store are doing a big preview game this Saturday

Kirasu wrote:GWs corporate policy amazes me constantly.. What are they scared of? Another company stealing their WFB rule secrets and releasing a game before them? It's as if they think they're in the tech business and dont want to give away trade secrets.. Here let me give away your secrets

Step 1 ) Develop the only decent miniature war game on the market at the time and gather your followers for 20 years
Step 2 ) Constantly create new lower cost models and raise prices through the roof
Step 3 ) PROFIT (btw step 3 is always profit in anything anyone does)

When you have a total monopoly over a game AND the product is ALREADY completed how does leaking information damage anything? It can only increase hype..

They make no sense

I'm not saying it makes any sense. Just pointing out that if that's what they choose to do, they're completely within their right to do so. Any employee who violates that choice is violating a company policy, and the company is subsequently within its right to mete out a stated punishment.

It's not dissmilar to my industry: if Microsoft says we're not supposed to start selling the new Halo game until X date, and someone sells it early, they shouldn't be surprised when Microsoft gets super upset about that. My FLGS ran down the list of punishments GW will hand out if they find anyone breaking the 'street date' on 8E, and I'd rather not see that happen.

I find it interesting that he claimed to be looking for how 8th ed would affect lizards and yet said nothing about fighting in initiative order or random charges. Hmmm...

Striking in initiative order = lizardmen sucking in the next edition

Striking in initiative order + being able to make full attacks reguardless as long as you have the models to spare= about an even change, albeit more focused to LM being a bit more on the defensive.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Kirasu wrote:GWs corporate policy amazes me constantly.. What are they scared of? Another company stealing their WFB rule secrets and releasing a game before them? It's as if they think they're in the tech business and dont want to give away trade secrets.. Here let me give away your secrets

Step 1 ) Develop the only decent miniature war game on the market at the time and gather your followers for 20 years
Step 2 ) Constantly create new lower cost models and raise prices through the roof
Step 3 ) PROFIT (btw step 3 is always profit in anything anyone does)

When you have a total monopoly over a game AND the product is ALREADY completed how does leaking information damage anything? It can only increase hype..

They make no sense

I'm not saying it makes any sense. Just pointing out that if that's what they choose to do, they're completely within their right to do so. Any employee who violates that choice is violating a company policy, and the company is subsequently within its right to mete out a stated punishment.

It's not dissmilar to my industry: if Microsoft says we're not supposed to start selling the new Halo game until X date, and someone sells it early, they shouldn't be surprised when Microsoft gets super upset about that. My FLGS ran down the list of punishments GW will hand out if they find anyone breaking the 'street date' on 8E, and I'd rather not see that happen.

Yeah I understand that but there is a difference between selling and "talking'.. Why not just have everyone sign a NDA? I mean if its that big of a deal. It's within GW's right I just think they continually miss the boat on hyping their product. Warhammer is so expensive that it would be nice to be able to plan out purchases more than 1 month in advance

2010/06/09 18:09:38 Subject: Re:8th Edition Rulebook Roundup
Striking in initiative order = lizardmen sucking in the next edition

Striking in initiative order + being able to make full attacks reguardless as long as you have the models to spare= about an even change, albeit more focused to LM being a bit more on the defensive.

I play lizards and striking in initiative order really doesnt mean a whole lot.. Slow armies with low initiative like Orks, lizards and dwarves dont even get to charge very often anyway. If you ARE charging its usually because someone made a mistake or you're going after an easy to kill unit or you want to add bodies to the fight. Against quality opponents movement 4 troops dont get to charge who they want to charge MOST of the time

oh no the stegadon has to wait until last to get its 3 attacks in.. but it already did impact hits anyway and is now ALSO getting an additional D6 stomp attacks.. what a nerf! Biggest losers might be cold one knights, but theyre pretty bad already so no big loss I suppose.

As long as I can avoid who I dont want to charge my units then I could care less if I charge or not.. As long as death star unit doesnt hit my temple guard its all irrelevant given their +7 static combat res (if I out number). Lizards are by their very nature DEFENSIVE.. i dont see how this changes anything

Again, wait for the full rules

I play lizards and striking in initiative order really doesnt mean a whole lot.. Slow armies with low initiative like Orks, lizards and dwarves dont even get to charge very often anyway. If you ARE charging its usually because someone made a mistake or you're going after an easy to kill unit or you want to add bodies to the fight. Against quality opponents movement 4 troops dont get to charge who they want to charge MOST of the time

As long as I can avoid who I dont want to charge my units then I could care less if I charge or not.. As long as death star unit doesnt hit my temple guard its all irrelevant given their +7 static combat res (if I out number). Lizards are by their very nature DEFENSIVE.. i dont see how this changes anything

I usually get the charge off. but I have about even numbers (unit wise) of saurus/ skinks so I can bait and switch.

now if the stubborn thing holds true that will be insane cold blooded stubborn is about the most broken LD thing I can think of ... well if we were higher than LD 8, as it stands it's mearly awesome, but throw a slann BSB, and you get cheese leadership checks.. Fewer neg modifiers will mean skirmishers are wicked , as will stand and shoot with blowpipes. but the coup de gra will be ranked skinks with kroxigors. 2 ranks of javelins then combat with destroy attacks?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
sorry for the double post but I found the super cheese lizardmen

Slann with lore of light.

Unit Buff: All units within 12” have Initiative 10 and Weapon Skill 10

imagine that on a unit of saurus with a scar vet in there... or even just a freaking champion.

its okay that lore of light spell is balanced by the fact that everyone forgot that there *is* a lore of light!

Will be weird to see people using lore of light, life and to an extent shadow

Not sure if you guys know this but you can play 8th edition in gw stores as of June 15th:

The new edition of Warhammer is released on 10th July. But, from Tuesday 15th June your local Hobby Centre will be running loads of exciting introductory and demonstration games for you to take part in using the brand new rulebook.

Introductory Games
If you've never played Warhammer before, introductory games are a fantastic way to learn about the ultimate Game of Fantasy Battles. You'll experience the rules in an exciting way and quickly get into the heart of the action.

In Warhammer you will: Command huge units of infantry and cavalry, use artillery batteries to smash your opponent into the ground, unleash towering monsters to strike fear into the hearts of your adversaries, and lay waste to whole armies with powerful magic.

Demonstration Games
If you've played Warhammer before, a demonstration game will provide you with a great opportunity to learn all about the new edition.

Find out how to tip the balance in your favour, encounter new threats on the battlefield, and rediscover the arcane secrets of sorcery. This is a world where victory and death rest upon a knife-edge and the fate of the world, be it damnation or salvation, will soon be decided.

Warhammer, the Game of Fantasy Battles is released on July 10th, but don't wait until then: get down to your local store from 15th June and let battle commence.

Was posted a loooooooooong time ago, guy.

Mick A wrote:My local GW has told me this Saturday is when they start taking pre-orders etc, I hope to go in and see what I'm actually pre-ordering then...

Mick

..and they're wrong.

It's not their fault..as such.. pre orders are from the 15th of June.. but the countdown clock.. for some reason.. is wrong on/in some of the stores.

Still.... great weapons give "always strikes last"... if, for example, you have "always strike first" then these counteract each other and you strike at I score, as per usual.

The magic unfolding tower IS in there, and each spell lore has a bonus edge to it. For example the Lore of ..err... Heavens ?... will produce extra hits if spells are cast upon flying units.

You should generally lok towards around 5=10 pieces of terrain per table.. and terrain can indeed have all sorts of "wacky" effects. From frenzy/similar to units within X inches, to additions when wizards channel the winds of magic, to forests attacking units in them or giving units FEAR when in there....

.. and making the enemy WS 1 is pretty sweet AFAIK.

People won't have to panic too much about banners.. except, perhaps, when things like your armies fortitude and Strength are relevant. And that's not in every mission/scenario.

Word is that the "new" demon models are featured in the book... hmm.. they're not in the catalogue that we can pay for...the "leak" was well timed eh ?

I'll give you guys a heads up of part of my update I will be doing saturday/ sunday:


ARMOUR

(name) 45pts. 4+ ward save.
(name) Armour. 50pts. Heavy armour and a 4+ ward
(name) Armour. 25pts. Armour and a 5+ ward (not sure if light or heavy)
(name) 2+ save against breath weapons.
Shield of Ptolos. Shield. 1+ save against all shooting attacks.
Enchanted Shield. Shield. 5pts. Same
(name). Shield. Allows you to disregard the first hit caused on the character on a 2+.

Enchanted
Wizards hat 100pts. Makes the wearer a Level 2 wizard with stupidity & rolls randomly for lore.
Arabian Carpet. 50pts. A magic carpet, the user can Fly.
Healing Potion 35pts. Restores D6 wounds to the character carrying it.
other trickster's shard is Models in base contact (friend of Foe) reroll successful ward saves.
Crown of command. Makes the bearer Stubborn
Mask of Eeeeee. Makes the wearer cause terror.

Fozeleks Foldable Fortress and is 100pts. Fortified, maybe on 2 floors.


WEAPONS
Some of the magic weapons can be Paired with another magic weapon, or a mundane weapon. I will try and keep them clearly labelled.

(name). 35pt magic sword that gives the wielder Frenzy that can never be lost.
(name). A paired magic sword that gives weapon Skill 10.


Arcane

Frog Scroll (?). 50pts. Used as a dispel scroll. One use only. The wizard must roll equal to or under their wizard level to keep the backlash in check, or they are turned into a frog, then in each of their subsequent turns they must roll a 4+ to come back into play.

The frog has no stats, so they cannot cast/ move/ be shot at/ killed etc. In fact they have nothing at all they can do until they turn back into a wizard!

Trickster's Shard

The armors seem a bit, well, cheesy. It doesn't help that it means pretty much every army will be able to throw a Ward Save on each character (Talisman of Protection + 45pt Ward Item + 25pt Ward Item + Generic Ward Items). Guess that would explain why the Beastmen lacked a lot of Ward Save gear, though: Are army books going to become a lot more "unique" magical effects (likely relating to special rules base for the army) and less generic actions (such as +2 to Strength, or +1 Toughness Heavy Armor)?

What am I missing from the Frog Scroll? Its a worse dispel scroll for MORE points?

Karon wrote:What am I missing from the Frog Scroll? Its a worse dispel scroll for MORE points?

Perhaps you can only take 1 dispel scroll in an army now?

Possible, or dispel scrolls are....*gasp* 75-100 points!

terrain can indeed have all sorts of "wacky" effects. From frenzy/similar to units within X inches, to additions when wizards channel the winds of magic, to forests attacking units in them or giving units FEAR when in there....

I will never ever even play one single game with these garbage rules.

TBD wrote:

terrain can indeed have all sorts of "wacky" effects. From frenzy/similar to units within X inches, to additions when wizards channel the winds of magic, to forests attacking units in them or giving units FEAR when in there....

I will never ever even play one single game with these garbage rules.

Whew, that's a relief. One less intolerant player.

Because one is only considered tolerant if one likes everything GW pushes upon us, right?

Minsc wrote:Guess that would explain why the Beastmen lacked a lot of Ward Save gear

Them and Skaven both(there's only a single 5+ Ward item in their list, the rest are on Eshin Troops, SCs, and the Bell).

TBD wrote:Because one is only considered tolerant if one likes everything GW pushes upon us, right?

No, probably because the thing you quoted really wasn't bad or OTT at all. You overreacted, and honestly, I QFT what Scottywan said.

Scottywan82 wrote:

TBD wrote:

terrain can indeed have all sorts of "wacky" effects. From frenzy/similar to units within X inches, to additions when wizards channel the winds of magic, to forests attacking units in them or giving units FEAR when in there....

I will never ever even play one single game with these garbage rules.

Whew, that's a relief. One less intolerant player.

Hey, some people like having their Fantasy Battles focusing more on the Battles part and less on the Fantasy. It was in another WHFB thread (can't recall if this or another), but Flashman's "Who in their right mind would stop to pick and eat mushrooms in the middle of a battle?" statement comes into play. I'd like to imagine the troops have at least some semblance of professionalism: Would you enjoy 40K if there was a one-in-six chance that Space Marines that ran into some woods got high on Space Fungus?

EDIT:

Platuan4th wrote:

Minsc wrote:Guess that would explain why the Beastmen lacked a lot of Ward Save gear

Them and Skaven both(there's only a single 5+ Ward item in their list, the rest are on Eshin Troops, SCs, and the Bell).

So it'd appear that typical ward save gear is going to quickly start vanishing. I'm mixed on this. On one hand, some armies could really do with more Ward Saves that aren't stupidly situational (If being targeted by non-magic shooting of strength [x] or lower you get [y] ward save, light armor otherwise). On the other, it looks like it'll start making other armies have pretty much everyone blessed with the ability to shrug off 50%+ incoming hits.

I cannot see how people say this edition will pose the end to Hero Hammer. All I see it killing is the use of monstrous mounts without having a block to provide static res and negate stubborn.

TBD wrote:

terrain can indeed have all sorts of "wacky" effects. From frenzy/similar to units within X inches, to additions when wizards channel the winds of magic, to forests attacking units in them or giving units FEAR when in there....

I will never ever even play one single game with these garbage rules.

I'm not a fan of the wacky terrain either.

But whilst nobody is going to force you to play with these rules shouldn't you at least try them? Who knows, you might really enjoy them?

Frog scroll does sound useless unless it's the casting wizard who has to roll instead of the dispelling wizard. Sounds like an item the Bretonnians had a few editions ago.

Durzod wrote:Frog scroll does sound useless unless it's the casting wizard who has to roll instead of the dispelling wizard. Sounds like an item the Bretonnians had a few editions ago.

I think it might be the casting wizard.

"di you try and cast a spell?" *poof* "try and cast it now!"

*ribbit*

Karon wrote:Possible, or dispel scrolls are....*gasp* 75-100 points!

That would have to wait for all the army books to get a re-write though. From what I remember, we were told that army book overrules main book if the item price differs.

Minsc wrote:
I cannot see how people say this edition will pose the end to Hero Hammer.

I haven't heard-seen a single person say-tell that at all since they announced the rumour of 25% Lords and 25% Heroes.

skyth wrote:

Karon wrote:Possible, or dispel scrolls are....*gasp* 75-100 points!

That would have to wait for all the army books to get a re-write though. From what I remember, we were told that army book overrules main book if the item price differs.

Except you forget that all army books are getting a big errata for the new edition, mate.

Wooo doubleposting

Are these wacky magic items restricted to certain races or are we going to see Orc Warbosses and Dwarf Runesmiths flying around on magic carpets now?

*facepalm*

No magic items for dwarves of daemons.

But I guess Orcs can have a flying carpet. It doesn't literally have to be a carpet though, they could have a flying rock! That would be aces!

Or a flying boar!

Would you enjoy 40K if there was a one-in-six chance that Space Marines that ran into some woods got high on Space Fungus?

Mine frequently impale or immolate themselves with those exact odds when moving through wrecks or certain terrain features.

Remember that not every wood will ot has to have an affect, but they want terrain for the sales of mode...err... they want terrain to play a much bigger role than it does now, and some of the terrain pieces and ideas are things they've been trailing/showcasing for quite some time.

Volley fire allowing the third rank to fire is pretty sweet for archers, no partials for templates.. most of the rumours we've read/heard about are true. As ever the devil will be in the detail and how rules interact.

I'm 90% certain that characters with ward saves CAN take both an armour save and a ward save like now if they have one.

Magic is a lot more deadly : one of the lore of death spells does something crazy like inflicting 2d6 modified by targets T hits on a character ( even in a unit), that all wound on a 2+. If the target survives they suffer from stupidity. Take that Teclis !

I'm quite keen on the idea of mounting an Empire Wizard on a flying carpet. Just for the fun factor. I might even make it a shag carpet.

Karon wrote:

TBD wrote:Because one is only considered tolerant if one likes everything GW pushes upon us, right?

No, probably because the thing you quoted really wasn't bad or OTT at all. You overreacted, and honestly, I QFT what Scottywan said.

The thing I quoted might not be bad, ott or whatever TO YOU, but I do not need unnecessary stupid terrain shenanigans added to my game of WHF, so I think I'll decide for myself what I post, thank you very much

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:No magic items for dwarves of daemons.

But I guess Orcs can have a flying carpet. It doesn't literally have to be a carpet though, they could have a flying rock! That would be aces!

Or a flying boar!

Flying pigs. That'll be the day. And strangely enough, that day seems to be creeping ever closer...

Minsc wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

TBD wrote:

terrain can indeed have all sorts of "wacky" effects. From frenzy/similar to units within X inches, to additions when wizards channel the winds of magic, to forests attacking units in them or giving units FEAR when in there....

I will never ever even play one single game with these garbage rules.

Whew, that's a relief. One less intolerant player.

Hey, some people like having their Fantasy Battles focusing more on the Battles part and less on the Fantasy. It was in another WHFB thread (can't recall if this or another), but Flashman's "Who in their right mind would stop to pick and eat mushrooms in the middle of a battle?" statement comes into play. I'd like to imagine the troops have at least some semblance of professionalism: Would you enjoy 40K if there was a one-in-six chance that Space Marines that ran into some woods got high on Space Fungus?

No, but I wouldn't babble on like a prat about how I will "Never play one game with these rules" or whatever other nonsense thing he said. If you don't like the rules, I would imagine you should sell your army and stop posting here. Spare us your faux-martyrdom.

Do these Frog Scrolls work on Slann? Slann basically are frogs and surely you can't turn a frog into frog as it already is a frog (Flashman logic).

well all toads are frogs but not all frogs are toads... my point being the scroll could have a pre set species not order (Anura) to turn them into and seeing as the slann would be a different species it would turn the slann to that species, and since the two are so similar I would imagine it would be easier to turn him into, and for the slann to turn back.

Basically What I'm saying is: no tow frogs are created equal

Just fired up my Lol-O-Meter, and so far, it's looking to be a 0-2....

Would you enjoy 40K if there was a one-in-six chance that Space Marines that ran into some woods got high on Space Fungus?

Probably people would enjoy that about as much as if there was a one in six chance that Chaos Dreadnoughts would stop and shoot twice often at their own troops, or that vehicles moving in rough terrain became immobilized or that troops deep striking into terrain were killed or that plasma guns would overheat or that ...

There's nothing new about rules such as Stupidity in WFB that cause troops to behave contrary to the wishes of the controlling player, they've been around quite a long time.

Sorry, is the new rulebook/edition coming out soon? theres a countdown on the GW site and i dunno what its actually for....

ghosty wrote:Sorry, is the new rulebook/edition coming out soon? theres a countdown on the GW site and i dunno what its actually for....

Its the countdown for end of the world as we know it, imagine all kinds of natural nasty disasters, starvation, plagues, ash clowds, you name it... all of that inside a wallet near you.

ghosty wrote:Sorry, is the new rulebook/edition coming out soon? theres a countdown on the GW site and i dunno what its actually for....

It's a count down to the 15th of this month, or at least thats what it's supposed to be counting down to. Apparently some of the count down clocks are off a bit. In either case, thats when you're supposed to be able to go to your FLGS and get a preview of 8th and they'll be running scenarios from it as well.

Sorry, is the new rulebook/edition coming out soon? theres a countdown on the GW site and i dunno what its actually for....

Do GW customers ever actually read the GW product announcements? GW has already sent out two email newsletters on the 8th Edition release, one in April and one in late May and forum users have plastered them all over here and been discussing them ever since.

Here's the text again from the May announcement, I won't waste a lot of space posting pictures that have already been shared.

Since we announced the new edition of Warhammer back in April, the excitement has been slowly building. Across the land hobbyists have begun gathering their forces in preparation of the mighty battles that lie ahead; in hushed whispers they've talked about what might lie within the 528-pages of the new Warhammer rulebook. Well prepare to ramp your excitement up a notch - Warhammer will be available to advance order from the 15th of June. Inspired by the clockwork creations of the engineers of Altdorf, we've today added a swish countdown clock to games-workshop.com, so you'll know exactly how many minutes and seconds to go before you can order your copy.

To thank you for subscribing to our newsletter (these images won't be shown anywhere else!) we thought we'd give you a sneak peek inside the new book. And don't forget that June's issue of White Dwarf is out this weekend and contains more exclusive information and pictures from the new Warhammer rulebook.

Enjoy.

The countdown -- I kid you not -- is to when you'll be able to give GW money to pre order the book.

...yeah.. I know..

It's also a countdown to when customers will be able to get their first hands-on look at the 528-page monster that GW is hoping you'll pre-order. Die hard players who want to continue will buy it sight unseen anyway and there are plenty of those out there, but it will be interesting to see the level of discretionary buying or not based on customers getting a look at the product. Who's expecting this to be $75-$79 US when they announce the price in another week?

Apparently some of the count down clocks are off a bit.

Aren't variations in the countdown clocks to be expected given time zone differences across GW's marketing area? It is a fairly global sales area.

Who's expecting this to be $75-$79 US when they announce the price in another week?

I absolutely expect it. Current rulebook is 57.00, and this new one is nearly twice as big. I'm going for a double hernia on July 10th. The first from packing in crates of the new book, and the second from having to lug those big sacks of money to the bank! Ka-Ching!

mikhaila wrote:Who's expecting this to be $75-$79 US when they announce the price in another week?

I absolutely expect it. Current rulebook is 57.00, and this new one is nearly twice as big. I'm going for a double hernia on July 10th. The first from packing in crates of the new book, and the second from having to lug those big sacks of money to the bank! Ka-Ching!

Evil!

And really, a lot of these new rules make me want to say one thing, and that thing is...

Pants.

I'll reserve final judgment until the release, of course.

mikhaila wrote:Who's expecting this to be $75-$79 US when they announce the price in another week?

I absolutely expect it. Current rulebook is 57.00, and this new one is nearly twice as big. I'm going for a double hernia on July 10th. The first from packing in crates of the new book, and the second from having to lug those big sacks of money to the bank! Ka-Ching!

Yeah. $75 for a rulebook. Are you kidding me!

I forsee a good chunk of players waiting until the starter minibook comes.
And if a minibook doesn't come, a resounding THUD as WHFB trips over its rulebook.

The GW rulebooks are already overpriced.
Look at the book for Black Powder.
Its a small run from an up and coming company (Warlord), and it is $44.

Why is GW the only company where economy of scale doesn't apply to the customer price?

Now now, Fantasy players will just do what they did for 7th edition. Not buy a rulebook, learn half the rules in stores and pick up bad habits then go to tournaments and have to have a judge come by ten times to correct them (who will also be wrong half the time).

skrulnik wrote:Why is GW the only company where economy of scale doesn't apply to the customer price?

Not to defend the greed of any company at all, but perhaps you've yet to meet the oil industry?

Though yes, if they expect me to play this I'm waiting for the starter box and its (comparatively) affordable rulebook.

Oh, and BTW, Warmachine Prime MkII softcover is $30, HC is $45(? I guess, Warstore isn't listing it).

To steal from D6G's Russ, and its in full color, and has rules for 4 factions of models.

Apologies. I am just trying to illustrate the differences that matter to me.

How thick the book is doesn't matter.
How much is rules I will use in normal games?
99% of the time for 40k I use the little book. The rest I don't need.

War of the Ring is a great book for $60. But the rules are only about 80 pages.
The majority of the remaining pages are the army lists.
Its been said that the WHFB bigbook will not contain lists. So how do you fill ~350 more pages?

I really don't want to open a 500+page tome and accidentally crush one of my units.
And pay $75 for the privilege.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neconilis wrote:

skrulnik wrote:Why is GW the only company where economy of scale doesn't apply to the customer price?

Not to defend the greed of any company at all, but perhaps you've yet to meet the oil industry?

Though yes, if they expect me to play this I'm waiting for the starter box and its (comparatively) affordable rulebook.

When we in the U.S. pay what the rest of the world does for gas, I will agree with you. But I don't really want to go OT.

Back on subject.
Is there word on what the vast majority of the book is? Current rules only take up what, 125 pages?
What's in the rest of the book?

I really don't want to delve through the many pages of speculation to find out.

My flgs was told by GW to expect the rule book to be between £45 and £50 (that was as of this Monday, 7th).
Mick

Someone debunked the price for the rulebook from that one page w/ the dividers, dice, markers, magic cards, etc and it was $73 USD (so probably 75-80 dollars)

Mick A wrote:My flgs was told by GW to expect the rule book to be between £45 and £50 (that was as of this Monday, 7th).
Mick

Yeah, I believe it's £45 for the book.

@Reds8n

Models can take an armour save AND a ward save.
Models can take an armour save AND a regeneration save.
Models cannot take a ward save AND regeneration.

This is highly likely now.

Sounds about right.

Units lose or don't get rank benefits when they fight in woods, except skirmishers who still do IIRC.

Volley fire so a thrid rankcan fire if they don't move (not even reform) is true, but this isn't allowed as a charge reaction I think.

The tower is "Fozzicks Fortress" or something, kind of handy.

Most of the LOS rules seemed very similar to the 40K ones -- ie not to wings, banners "so not penalised for an impressive base" etc etc.

How detailed is the actual rules part on how to use TLOS in game? It is abstracted off bases?

Do you happen to know if forests provide a generic soft cover save if there is a single tree in the way?

Another thing I am not sure whether to put in my update is that I'm hearing that because unit strength is gone, single models can cause panic tests...

I really don't want to open a 500+page tome and accidentally crush one of my units.
And pay $75 for the privilege.

That made me laugh but I think I might enjoy all the fluff thats hopefully in the new book and that the plots actually moved forward.

You know, the plot never advances in historical games, and players don't complain about settings getting stale as so many claim with 40k/FB.

I think it is in how you look at it. For me, the current year of the game world is irrelevant.

There is a couple thousand years in FB and nearly 10,000 in 40k for you to have the game take place and it won't matter to the armies involved.
Half the Named Characters seem to be dead anyway. So if you have one in your game, you are not playing current timeline.

Te setting is merely a backdrop, a frame of reference for the battle you fight. The world/universe HAS to be on the brink of something big at all times.

Otherwise one army or another, because of the story, has to be weaker. And nobody wants to be the weak.

How else do you keep a balance of power where all the armies have a chance at fighting each other?

Scottywan82 wrote:No, but I wouldn't babble on like a prat about how I will "Never play one game with these rules" or whatever other nonsense thing he said. If you don't like the rules, I would imagine you should sell your army and stop posting here. Spare us your faux-martyrdom.

Not playing with new rules could still mean playing with the old rules, éh McFly

Now I don't know what exactly a "prat" is, but I would imagine you let people decide for themselves what they are or aren't going to do. If I need you to enlighten us with punk-arse responses to our opinions I will flush the toilet a couple of times to let you know you are summoned, alright?

I'm guessing it has:
150 pages of (cumpulsory) rules.
Say another 25 pages of optional rules (allied forces, campaigns etc)
Another 30 pages of scenarios.
60 pages of army background.
30 pages of full page art.
30 pages of 'eavy metal/ collecting GW models/ building armies and terrain.
10 pages of FAQ.
200 apprx. pages of stories.

The only one I know for certain is that each army has 4 pages of background.

Chaos Dwarfs are only snippets throughout.

if a minibook doesn't come

The mini rule book has already been printed. It's what the store employees have been using to learn the rules for the past few weeks in preparation for the preview to customers starting on June 15.

LGS here is taking preorders at $74.95 USD. They've talked with GW and there was something goofy about them shipping it 2day on Monday because they were afraid if they shipped it on Friday it'd be there too soon - and GASP we'd be able to scan the entire book and have it up on the net on the 14th!!! (That's a joke FYI - I can't imagine scanning that many pages). So anyways *we* may not actually see it till Wednesday. I'm sure most GW stores will have it on Tuesday.

Maybe so. But the local GW here is now closed Mon and Tues. I thought that was the new schedule for everybody

reds8n wrote:Sounds about right.

Units lose or don't get rank benefits when they fight in woods, except skirmishers who still do IIRC.

Volley fire so a thrid rankcan fire if they don't move (not even reform) is true, but this isn't allowed as a charge reaction I think.

The tower is "Fozzicks Fortress" or something, kind of handy.

Most of the LOS rules seemed very similar to the 40K ones -- ie not to wings, banners "so not penalised for an impressive base" etc etc.

If I recall, skirmishers get another +1 CR in woods, as well.
Volley fire is for bows, and gives half of the ranks past 2. So if 6 wide, 3 ranks=15, 4 ranks =18 etc.
Tower is a 100 pt magic item, set up in your deployment zone, either being the Warhammer Watchtower, or a piece of scenery roughly the same size.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xizindar wrote:LGS here is taking preorders at $74.95 USD. They've talked with GW and there was something goofy about them shipping it 2day on Monday because they were afraid if they shipped it on Friday it'd be there too soon - and GASP we'd be able to scan the entire book and have it up on the net on the 14th!!! (That's a joke FYI - I can't imagine scanning that many pages). So anyways *we* may not actually see it till Wednesday. I'm sure most GW stores will have it on Tuesday.

I was told by my rep that they 'Guaranteed' I'd have it by the 15th. Crossing my fingers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skrulnik wrote:

mikhaila wrote:Who's expecting this to be $75-$79 US when they announce the price in another week?

I absolutely expect it. Current rulebook is 57.00, and this new one is nearly twice as big. I'm going for a double hernia on July 10th. The first from packing in crates of the new book, and the second from having to lug those big sacks of money to the bank! Ka-Ching!

Yeah. $75 for a rulebook. Are you kidding me!
I forsee a good chunk of players waiting until the starter minibook comes.
And if a minibook doesn't come, a resounding THUD as WHFB trips over its rulebook.
The GW rulebooks are already overpriced.
Look at the book for Black Powder.
Its a small run from an up and coming company (Warlord), and it is $44.
Why is GW the only company where economy of scale doesn't apply to the customer price?

Black Powder is a nice book, but not even half the size of the new WFB book. Warlord is sort of 'up and coming' and sort of 'run by John Stollard who can just call up the same people printing GW's books and get the same price'.)

I forsee a lot of griping, and a long line of people paying for the book at 12:01am for the midnight release at my store. GW's books have been getting more expensive, no arguement. But I also think they got better. The last 40k HC was very nice with some excellent pieces of artwork.

I was anxiously waiting for my FLGS to get the book in today. I called the local GW store and heard that they have it, but aren't showing it to customers until Tuesday. In talking with my guy at the FLGS, he called GW and found out that independent retailers aren't getting their copies until Monday.

@skrulnik

You drop your 20lb book on a unit:

Models can take an armour save AND a ward save versus the book.
Models can take an armour save AND a regeneration save versus the book.
Models cannot take a ward save AND regeneration versus the book.

Depending on the unit only 4 or 5 are broken if they make their saves.

Grimstonefire wrote:
Chaos Dwarfs are only snippets throughout.

you just ruined my life...

why dont they bring them back!?!!? and new edition is a perfect time!

Am I missing something here? I thought it was released on 10th July? I can understand GW getting copies to show punters but it sounds like independant shops are getting theirs as well (not that I'm compaining, just confused...)

Mick

If the rulebook is of high quality (at 500 pages I'm a bit worried about the binding) I don't see anything wrong with paying more for it.

If you want just the rules, get the minrulebook.

GW, remember, are still about the models - hence they make sure the HOBBY part of the hobby is catered for.

I've seen the book and it is pretty. Very, very pretty.

My local store were playin preview games today

Mick A wrote:Am I missing something here? I thought it was released on 10th July? I can understand GW getting copies to show punters but it sounds like independant shops are getting theirs as well (not that I'm compaining, just confused...)

Mick

Speaking only from the US side:

GW store managers have the softcover minirulebook for the last couple of weeks. Probably have a HC coming in to show off on Tuesday the 15th.

Most of the larger independent accounts have a HC copy in the mail. I've been staring at the tracking on mine every 30 seconds in a vain attempt to speed it up. We will get them monday/tuesday. Mine says 'arriving tuesday'.

As of the 15th, all stores can show people the book. Information will go up on the GW websites about the HC book, and some spiffy edition sets with both SC and HC, and you can pre-order off the websites and at GW or independent stores.

September the starter set with SC rulebook will be out.

Cheers mikhaila

Mick

My latest update, which I will try and update the first post with tommorow.


Alliances: There are 4 different options;

Blood Brothers: These are 2 or more armies from the same army book. Characters can join units from the other army, can benefit from the other army’s BSB/ General, but they can cause panic in units from the other army.

Stable Alliance: These are 2 or more armies from within the same faction (e.g. 2 from Forces of Order, or 2 from Forces of Destruction). Characters cannot join units of the other army, cannot benefit from the other army’s BSB/ General, but they can cause panic in units from the other army. Units from each army can benefit from the other army though, for instance, using the Shield of Saphery on a Dwarf army, and being moved by the Anvil in return.

Fragile Alliance: These are either a Stable Alliance that includes Dark Elves or Skaven, or an alliance between armies from the Forces of Order and Forces of Destruction. The can benefit each other as with a Stable Alliance, but they do not cause panic tests in the other army. If they are forced to flee through each other the stationary unit counts as Dangerous Terrain (see below in terrain).

Neutral Alliance: An alliance that has one army from the Neutral Forces (Ogres and TK). These armies cannot benefit from each other and do not cause panic tests in the other army.

Chaos Dwarfs have a few snippets through the book only.

Failed Charge
• You move the highest of the D6 you rolled to charge (+ basic movement I think).

Sidestep
• Basic Movement divided by 2 (rounding up) to move laterally or backwards.

Dwarfs still get +2 dispel dice.

Lost Control Chart

The loss of Control table is 2D6.
• 2-4: Strength 10 large template over the wizard. Then on a 1-2 the wizard is removed from play, 3+ you lose D6 power dice.
5-6: Strength 10 small template over the wizard. Lose D6 power dice
7: Lose D6 power dice, Strength 10 hit on everyone in base contact with the wizard (NOT the wizard)
8-9: Strength 6 hit on every caster on your side, lose D6 power dice
10-12: Wizard loses D3 levels & random spells for each of them.
Bound Spells may be duplicated in an army

• Hex: Modify enemy stats and/or equipment. May be cast into combat.
• Augmentation (Buffs): Support your own troops. May be cast into combat, and may be cast on units not in your 90 degree arc of sight.

Lore of Fire

Basic Spell: Fireball: Magic Missile
D6 S4 hits 24" range
2D6 S5 hits 36" range
3D6 S6 hits 48" range

1 Cascading Fireshield Remains in Play, Caster and Unit Buff. At the end of each magic phase, any enemy unit in contact with the caster and his unit suffers 2d6 hits S4.

2 Flaming Sword(s) of Rhuin: Unit Buff. 24" range. Grants +1 to wound and magical flaming attacks.

3. Flaming Skull: Direct damage. Draw 18" line from the caster in any direction within the 90 degree arc of sight. Each model touched by the line (determine who's hit like you would do with a cannon ball) suffers a S4 flaming hit. All units that take at least 1 casualty have to take a panic test.

4. Fiery Arrows: Magic Missile. 24" range. Targeted unit suffers D3 S4 hits for each rank of 5 or more models. The scaled up version is 36" range.

5. Blazing cage Hex. 24" range. Targeted enemy unit suffers D6 S4 hits. If the unit moves by any means, each model suffers another S4 hit and the spell ends. The scaled up version has an increased range.

6. Firestorm: Direct Damage. Place the small template within 30" of the caster, It then scatters D6" and causes str 4 hits. The scaled up version uses the large template but scatters 2d6".


Lore of Metal

(name): Direct Damage. Every model in the target unit is killed and turned to gold on a D6 roll of 5+ (multi-wound models on a 6+). Friendly units within 12” are subject to stupidity until the next magic phase as they are distracted by all the gold.

Lore of Beasts

Special Bonus: If targeted on cavalry, beasts, monstrous cavalry, monstrous beasts (razorgor, giant eagles etc), chariots, Monsters, or any unit from WA: Beastmen, the wizard gains an additional + 1 to cast.

(name): Unit Buff. +1 Strength and Toughness

Curse of Anraheir Caster Buff. +3 strength and +3 Attacks

Amber spear. Magic Missile. As Hunter's Spear.


Lore of Light

Special Bonus: If targeted on a undead or daemonic unit, spells from the lore of light deal an additional D6 hits.

• Basic Spell: Ray of Light: Magic Missile. D6 S4 hits to a unit within 24", causing flaming attacks. The scaled up version has an increased range and strength.

Blinding Light: Unit Buff. Affects one friendly unit within 12", all to hit rolls against this unit have a -1 modifier. All auto-attacks or auto-hits have to roll a 4+ or are wasted. May be extended to all units in 12"

As fast as Light: Unit Buff. Choose one unit within 24". It has Weapon Skill 10 and Initiative 10.

Beacon of Hope: Unit Buff. Rally 1 fleeing unit. Targeted unit automatically passes all Leadership tests until casters next magic phase.

Amynotoks Web: Hex. Targeted enemy unit has to pass a Strength test for each action they want to take (move, shoot, cast spells, pursue, flee, strike in cc, etc.) If they fail they may not perform the intended action and suffer D6 S4 hits instead. Lasts until casters next magic phase.

Exorcism: Direct Damage. Deals 2D6 S4 hits, against which all successful Ward saves must be re-rolled. For each wizard other than the caster using the lore of light within 12", the strength is increased by 1.

Temporal Warp: Unit Buff. Targeted friendly unit doubles its movement characteristic, increases its Attacks by 1 and gains the ASF special rule until casters next magic phase. The scaled up version is for all friendly units within 12"


Lore of Death - The Wind of Shyish

Special Bonus: For each casualty caused by lore of death spells, roll a D6. On a roll of 5+ you are granted an additional power dice.


Basic Spell: Soulsteal. Direct damage, 12" range. Nominate a model. Caster and Target roll 1D6 and add their unmodified leadership. For each point the caster's result exceeds the targets result it suffers 1 wound with no armour save allowed. The scaled up version has an increased range.

1: Face of the Reaper. Unit Buff, 24 " range. Targeted unit causes fear. Caster may decide to make it cause Terror for a higher casting value.

2: Embrace of Laniph. Direct damage, 12 " range. Nominate 1 target model. Roll 2D6 and subtract the target's Strength. The result equals the number of hits the target takes, wounding on 4+ and ignoring armour saves. The scaled up version has an increased range.

3: Soulrot. Hex, 24 " range. Targeted unit suffers a -1 strength and toughness. The scaled up version is ALL enemy units within 24 inches. Lasts 1 turn.

4: Dark Despair. Hex. Remains in play, 24 " range. Targetted unit suffers -3 Leadership. The scaled up version has an increased range.

5: Bajuna's Fate. Direct damage, 12 " range. Nominate 1 model. Roll 2D6 and substract the target's toughness. The result equals the number of hits the target suffers, wounding on 2+ and ignoring Armour saves. Should the target survive, it suffers stupidity for the rest of the game.

6: The Purple Sun of Xereus. Power Whirl, Remains in Play. Place the small template in base contact with the caster and roll the artillery dice. Multiply result by 3. The result is the number of inches the template moves. Each model touched by the template, except for the wizard himself, has to pass an Initiative test or is removed from play. No saves are allowed. If you roll a misfire, place the template above the caster himself, roll a scatter dice and 1D6. The result is the number of inches the template is moved away from the caster.

The template moves at the end of each following magic phase, roll the artillery dice and a scatter dice to determine direction and range. If you roll a misfire the template is removed. The scaled up version uses the 5 " template instead.



Monstrous Infantry can fight with a maximum of 3 attacks per model in the second rank, then one per model in subsequent ranks.

Units with stupidity may not Parry.

If Infantry models are armed with a combat weapon other than a hand weapon, you have to use it.

WEAPONS

Some of the magic weapons can be Paired with another magic weapon, or a mundane weapon. I will try and keep them clearly labelled.

(name). Magic sword that gives the wielder Frenzy that can never be lost.
(name). A Paired magic sword that gives weapon Skill 10.

ARMOUR
(name) 4+ ward save.
(name) Heavy armour and a 4+ ward
(name) Armour and a 5+ ward (not sure if light or heavy)
(name) 2+ save against breath weapons.
Shield of Ptolos. Shield. 1+ save against all shooting attacks.
Enchanted Shield. Shield. Same
(name). Shield. Allows you to disregard the first hit caused on the character on a 2+.

ENCHANTED ITEMS
Wizards Hat. Makes the wearer a Level 2 wizard with stupidity & rolls randomly for lore.
Arabian Carpet. The user can Fly.
Healing Potion. Restores D6 wounds to the character carrying it.
Other Trickster's Shard. Models in base contact (friend of Foe) reroll successful ward saves.
Crown of command.. Makes the bearer Stubborn
Mask of Eeeeee!. Makes the wearer cause terror.

ARCANE ITEMS
Frog Scroll (?). Used as a dispel scroll. One use only. The wizard must roll equal to or under their wizard level to keep the backlash in check, or they are turned into a frog, then in each of their subsequent turns they must roll a 4+ to come back into play.

The frog has no stats, so they cannot cast/ move/ be shot at/ killed etc. In fact they have nothing at all they can do until they turn back into a wizard!
Trickster's Shard

Watch Tower
• New rules to storm the building: Max 10 infantry fighting their way up.

Battle: Army Fraction
Work out the Army Value first:

Each unit standard is worth 1.
Battle Standard Bearer is worth 1
General is worth 2.

Then work out the minimum Army Value. 1 for each 1000pts (i.e. 4000pts = a minimum Army Value of 4).

The first army to drop below its minimum Army Value loses.

Battle: Attack at Dawn
The battlefield is split into zones and units are placed randomly within them.

Scenario: Something with a warhammer scale Dwarf airship...

Shooting through a forest has a -1 to hit modifier

The army value sounds like a BS, considering there was a scan from the new WHFB rulebook (by GW, no less) that has a reference to using Victory Points. You couldn't use victory points to win if you automatically lose via Army Value, unless it's only for specific missions.

Though I can imagine some horribly inane rule saying a WHFB army must meet at least a certain amount of points, such as Skaven or Orcs & Goblins needing at least ten points at the start of a 2K point game or something. Because, you know, the armies should be HUGE, so you should have to take at least five blocks of infantry with standards for a 2K point game See? Skaven are skaveny, they have lots of numbers!

I'm not liking some of those magical effects. Specifically the whole "Lore of Light becomes default for many armies" and "Purple Sun gibs entire regiments in single turn".

I've edited my post above with the new lores of fire and death.

The army values thing is one specific battle out of 6.

To me, Bajuna's Fate and Purple Sun of Xereus look to be the only really useful Death spells. Bajuna's is a character killer, Purple Sun a unit killer.

Grimstonefire wrote:The army values thing is one specific battle

Ah, alright. I apologize for misrea-

Grimstonefire wrote: out of 6.

The 6th Edition Rulebook had nine at only 288 pages. Heck, it then had 18 pages of Siege rules and seven pages of terrain generation (each to represent a different part of the Old World) to boot. They can only fit six scenarios in this book? Six?

Casting values are very high on those level 6 spells, and if I'm recalling correctly, if you fail to cast, that caster is done for the round. Magic looks very potent, but you have less control over the dice you have to cast, penalties if you fail to cast, and a whopping huge one if you do roll double 6's for total power.

As a whole, we need to wait and see how it all fits together.

I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.

mikhaila wrote:As a whole, we need to wait and see how it all fits together.

Not much a fan of the super-spells, but with that the Skaven's 13th Spell looks much less impressive. Unless that Large Blast Template "I test or die" is something like 30+ to cast, it'll easily be able to do more than 4D6 infantry casualties (barring an enemy army like Ogres) in a single casting. He'll, if it smacks a unit of Saurus, Orcs, Gors, or Undead, they're done suffering anywhere from 66-83% casualties.

However, once more, Night Goblins prove superior to regular Goblins. Is there any change that could make them less effective?

The whole thing about being forced to use a non-hand weapon if you have it feels very lame.. Why give units options if you're just going to not let them use it? Oh well I guess, I just liked being able to pick hand weapon shield or great weapon as not every combat is the same

I think it makes sense though, Kirasu.

I mean, what soldier really carried a huge axe, and a shield and sword too?

Karon wrote:I mean, what soldier really carried a huge axe, and a shield and sword too?

More than you'd think, I'd wager.

Many knights carried 3 weapons(Lance for the initial charge, a cavalry sword for fighting on horse back, and a sword for fighting if dismounted).

But they were on horses, so the weight wasn't as much as a problem, as if they had to use the sword, they dropped the lance (as well as the cavalry sword I would wager)

Or the common Spear / Shield / Short Sword combination.

The more I'm reading, the less I'm liking the new rules.

Minsc wrote:Or the common Spear / Shield / Short Sword combination.

Yep, the standard armament of the average Roman soldier.

skyth wrote:The more I'm reading, the less I'm liking the new rules.

QFT. I'll probably be poring over the book Tuesday at my FLGS (it seems I've been designated 'the guy to run the demos') and coming to grips with it. I'll run a few games, but if the books at all resembles most of these rumors, my local group's going to have a LARGE discussion about this book...

If Infantry models are armed with a combat weapon other than a hand weapon, you have to use it.

This is the stupidest thing ever. Men at Arms (and I'm sure there are other examples) are forced to buy shields regardless of what weapon they are using. This wouldn't be so frustrating if they actually were going to fix books in a three year timeline.

I have this sudden urge to model up a Cygor that instead of throwing around bits of menhir is chucking a new-edition rulebook.

Karon wrote:I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.

If I'm reading it right, you can only have one of each Magic Item, including Scrolls. Certainly I can't find the exception to the 'unique' rule for Scrolls. Though to be fair, me not being able to find it doesn't necessarily mean it's not there!

Ixquic wrote:

If Infantry models are armed with a combat weapon other than a hand weapon, you have to use it.

This is the stupidest thing ever. Men at Arms (and I'm sure there are other examples) are forced to buy shields regardless of what weapon they are using. This wouldn't be so frustrating if they actually were going to fix books in a three year timeline.

saurus, they can be armed with hw&shield, and a spear. they don't exchange their hw for the spear they just pick up a new spear.

yeah.. tons of units have options to carry multiple weapons. Doesnt matter if it *doesnt make sense* since this is a high fantasy game that doesnt make sense on MANY levels.

They just made a lot of weapon options useless for no real reason other than to add a 40k rule that only really applied to characters

reds8n wrote:Units lose or don't get rank benefits when they fight in woods, except skirmishers who still do IIRC.

Do skirmishers get rank bonuses in the new edition??

RiTides wrote:

reds8n wrote:Units lose or don't get rank benefits when they fight in woods, except skirmishers who still do IIRC.

Do skirmishers get rank bonuses in the new edition??

I'm not sure on this one, at the moment I say no, but someone who's read the book has said yes. This would mean they could negate rank bonus as well.

@Minsc

I think there are 6 'battles' suitable for tournie play, which would conveniently correlate to D6...

From what I hear there may then be 1 specific scenario for most armies, though obviously these could be tailored to fit most match ups.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Karon wrote:I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.

If I'm reading it right, you can only have one of each Magic Item, including Scrolls. Certainly I can't find the exception to the 'unique' rule for Scrolls. Though to be fair, me not being able to find it doesn't necessarily mean it's not there!

If that's the case, then I'll have to rethink some things for my beastmen. Well, ALL armies will, haha.

My army doesn't even use Scrolls (well, 'cept my Clan Eshin - they need it what with just 2 DD).

O&G and Dwarves, humorously, are going to be quite well off in this new edition. Dwarves because they get +2 Dice by default and, if I'm not mistaken, will still get their Rune[x] Dispel Dice Bonus'. Meanwhile, O&G have the advantage in that they can generate +3 DD beyond normal (via a Magic Standard that's common in most lists), another magic item for +1 DD and -1 PD to the enemy, and lastly a Staff of Sorcery for +1 Dispel. Only a 6-6 roll will lead to the other player having more PD than you have DD (otherwise you getting at least as many DD as they have PD) with the base roll.

Karon wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Karon wrote:I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed magic defense wise.

Two L2 Bray Shamans for 6 PD, 4 DD, 3 Scrolls, and a Stone of Spite, or just one with a Stone of Spite and a scroll, along with 3 DD and 4 PD

Not sure if I should go MORE magic defense this edition, or less.

If I'm reading it right, you can only have one of each Magic Item, including Scrolls. Certainly I can't find the exception to the 'unique' rule for Scrolls. Though to be fair, me not being able to find it doesn't necessarily mean it's not there!

If that's the case, then I'll have to rethink some things for my beastmen. Well, ALL armies will, haha.

And number of wizards has little to do with how many PD and DD you have.


-Roll 2d6. Thats the PD you have for the phase. Each magician rolls a die, if they get a '6' add +1 dice. You may never go over 12. The highest of the 2d6 is how many dispell dice your opponent gets. He then rolls a die for each mage, and adds +1 dispel dice for each '6'. So the amount of power available from "The Winds of Magic" in each magic phase is largely unaffected by the number of mages on the field.

I see.

1 Bray Shaman w/ Stone of Spite and a Scroll should be fine then.

Many things changing, I'm excited for people to actually SEE the book.

My Dwarves should be loving this. I think 2 Runesmihs are in order. They will have the Master Rune of Balance and the Master Rune of Spelbreaking, as well as 2 dispel scroll runes. That gives me 2 Dispel Dice for being Dwarves, 2 Dispel Dice for the Runesmiths, and 1 For the Rune of Balance. The Rune of Balance also steals an enemy power die, While the other Master Rune Gives me +1 Dispel. This means thsat my opponent will only have equal Power dice top my dispel dice if they roll double 6's. Sweeeeeeeeeet!

Death Magic is going to be rather popular for Magic Heavy Armies due to it's natty Lore Attribute.

Essentially, for every wound caused by Death Magic spells,you roll an equal amount of D6. Each one that comes up as a 5 or 6 converts into a Power Dice there and then. Not 100% sure how this works with the 12 Maximum, as theoretically, I could 6 dice Purple Sun of Xereus, cause umpteen wounds, and gain back all the dice used to cast. Now whether the 12 Maximum means for that phase, or whether I can continually top up my pool in this manner, that would be the question!

Hope this makes sense!

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:My Dwarves should be loving this. I think 2 Runesmihs are in order. They will have the Master Rune of Balance and the Master Rune of Spelbreaking, as well as 2 dispel scroll runes. That gives me 2 Dispel Dice for being Dwarves, 2 Dispel Dice for the Runesmiths, and 1 For the Rune of Balance. The Rune of Balance also steals an enemy power die, While the other Master Rune Gives me +1 Dispel. This means thsat my opponent will only have equal Power dice top my dispel dice if they roll double 6's. Sweeeeeeeeeet!

You may still get the +2 dice for being dwarves, can't remember if it was that, or +2 to dispel. But the runesmiths won't add any dice. Balance will still allow you to steal a dice. Dwarves should have very good magic defense, altogether.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Death Magic is going to be rather popular for Magic Heavy Armies due to it's natty Lore Attribute.

Essentially, for every wound caused by Death Magic spells,you roll an equal amount of D6. Each one that comes up as a 5 or 6 converts into a Power Dice there and then. Not 100% sure how this works with the 12 Maximum, as theoretically, I could 6 dice Purple Sun of Xereus, cause umpteen wounds, and gain back all the dice used to cast. Now whether the 12 Maximum means for that phase, or whether I can continually top up my pool in this manner, that would be the question!

Hope this makes sense!

I believe the wording was "may not ever have more than 12 dice in the pool at any time during the phase." If that's correct, I think it implies you could theoretically cast a lot of death magic, and just keep replenishing your dice. limited of course, by getting spells off, and having spells available to cast.

Stunties do indeed get +2 to Dispel, which is nice.

Magic has seriously gone all or nothing. The Spell Lores really have to be seen to be believed!

Will check the exact wording before long as to the 12 PD, as I suspect a Vampire could be utter filth with Forbidden Lore of Death Magic, and an awful lot of the those lovely cheap Necromancers to keep the army trim and proper!

The complete list of magic items

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32236

Note that I will not be updating the first post with all these, as from tuesday the time for rumours is over.

Schild des Ptolos () 25 pts
Buckler, 1+ armour save against missile attack (Beschussattacken)

Zauberspruchshild () 20 pts
Buckler, bearer gains magic resistance (1)

Verzauberter Schild () 5 pts
Buckler, Armour save is better by 2

Glücksbringender Schild () 5 pts
Buckler, only one use, first hit will be ignored by 2+

Also, there is an item that says it gives you relentless....40k crossover rule?

So I guess shields and bucklers are seperate now? Maybe Bucklers are the 6+ ward, and the regular shield is still the same. Maybe makes a bit more sense.

Buckler might just be a translation thing. There was one a short while back with Pikes / Spears being interchangeable.

EDIT: Especially looks the case with an Enchanted "Buckler" being +2 to save.

EDIT 2: Hero Slayer seems moderately priced, go figure. I mean, yeah it's 20pts less than the Orc version, but the Orc version is also for any enemy character within 12". Shame that's going to start becoming a common thing though.

Not too fond of the Cloud of Flies piece being 25pts, I'll have to re-check my book but I think the original one for O&G was almost double that for same effect.

Two pieces of armor and two Talismans that give straight up 5+ or 4+ Wards. Not exactly liking this: 40K where every character has an "invuln" save?

The loss of a Staff of Sorcery is going to be felt when it's slowly phased out of army books. Armies that lose it earlier sooner than later are going to be hit hardest.

Grimstonefire wrote:

RiTides wrote:

reds8n wrote:Units lose or don't get rank benefits when they fight in woods, except skirmishers who still do IIRC.

Do skirmishers get rank bonuses in the new edition??

I'm not sure on this one, at the moment I say no, but someone who's read the book has said yes. This would mean they could negate rank bonus as well.

Wow, I'm very curious about this! I have heard that skirmishers will not move freely, but in a block with 1" between each model (I'm not sure if it was here or elsewhere... all blurring together now).

Does anyone who's seen the book know if skirmishers do break ranks in some fashion? That'd be a game-changer for me, since I'm not taking many blocks... but I'm not getting my hopes up

Seemingly, here and elsewhere are "confirming" Skirmishers in blocks. I'd imagine it as akin to the "Nine are Abroad" style of formation for WotR.

Right now, it looks like - barring forcing the enemy to fight in woods (which seemingly allow no ranks to RnF units) - that Wood Elves can't take down RnF units as they'll always be stubborn even if the unit wins. Well, barring a flank, but with all the free reforms and all it should be relatively easy to bar a flank attack unless the FS army has more units than you.

Karon wrote:
Also, there is an item that says it gives you relentless....40k crossover rule?

Well, he gives us that the German is "unnachgiebig", which variably seems to translate as unyielding, unflinching, adamant, unrelenting, intractable, and immovable.

So, it's either Stubborn(my vote based on the rules in past versions of the item) or Unbreakable.

Kirasu wrote:The whole thing about being forced to use a non-hand weapon if you have it feels very lame.. Why give units options if you're just going to not let them use it? Oh well I guess, I just liked being able to pick hand weapon shield or great weapon as not every combat is the same

I am also wondering how this will affect Black Orcs , "Armed to da teeth" . Do they get to choose or not ?

I'd say its Unbreakable now that you explain it.

Karon wrote:I'd say its Unbreakable now that you explain it.

I would say they do unless an army errata said otherwise.

Hey Doc, it sounds like you've seen the rules now but there has been no mention of your 'lol-meter'; does this mean most of the rumours are true?

Mick

Lol-O-Meter was posted, at a solid 0-2. Going to upgrade that to a 0-3.

Lots of stuff semi-accurate, but with entirely allowable mistranslations/errors, some of it a bit off with the kernel of truth.

Oh, Skirmishers do not break ranks ever, BUT, Skirmishers in a wood are 100% Stubborn, 100% of the time, whereas Ranked units lose their advantages in Woods!

Just spoke to the guy at my flgs (who had just got off the phone from GW) and he said his preview copy coming Weds or Thurs with something else you 'need' to play the game. The GW guy wouldnt tell him what it was though. Anyone shed some light on it?

Cheers, Mick

Mick A wrote:Just spoke to the guy at my flgs (who had just got off the phone from GW) and he said his preview copy coming Weds or Thurs with something else you 'need' to play the game. The GW guy wouldnt tell him what it was though. Anyone shed some light on it?

Cheers, Mick

Apart from a deep wallet? Well I would take wild guess and say the compass.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Oh, Skirmishers do not break ranks ever, BUT, Skirmishers in a wood are 100% Stubborn, 100% of the time, whereas Ranked units lose their advantages in Woods!

Thanks for the answer! Now if you could confirm for me that there really isn't a case where you need banners to claim objectives, I'd be grateful (I've had it confirmed by one person, but I'm suprised that it's still up on the first page...)

One of the missions involves banners, but not for claiming objectives.

No idea on that one skip, haven't delved as deep as the actual Scenario Rules yet!

Though my current vote for 'Besterest Rule' would be the additional 50 VPs for having a champion chin a character in a challenge. Just appeals to me an awful lot. Especially with Executioners....CHOP! 50 VPs. CHOP! 50 VPs!

i'm finding myself suprisingly interested in fantasy with these rumored changes as i frankly didn't like the game in prior editions. i'm also suprised at how small this thread is... i think the IG/BA/SW threads were double to triple the length and those were just for army books. i guess more people really do play 40k than fantasy, even across the pond.

Just a quick question on the magic item that turns a wizard into a frog. How does that work on a Slann? I mean they ARE frogs.

It just does. And a Slaan is not a Frog, it is a Slaan. It is no more a Frog than we are Chimpanzees.

Hey, I can sorta understand the VP's for the champion thing. Less for an overall battle thing, but morale victory. For example, my Night Goblin Unit Champion once took the hits from a Plague Bearer champion (one in a combat featuring a Nurgle Herald too), then proceeded to kill it in said challenge. Those type of things would probably boost morale for the remnants of an army, even if said champion eventually died or the battle was lost.

Given the 8E rulebook is actually out, maybe we can lock this?

Agreed. If out shift your dissussions to discussions.