Necrons 2K pts. Nothing weird except that with the last 180 points I got a third HQ (best unit in the codex) as a reward for Tomb World Alpha signing an alliance with Tomb World Beta. Of course if I wanted I could also drop a couple models from somewhere and buy a fourth Annilation Barge. Remember, the downside is that... wait a minute... forget it.

Overlord with Warscythe in CCB
Overlord with Warscythe in CCB
Overlord with Warscythe in CCB
Pulsetek
Pulsetek
5 Warriors in Night Scythe
5 Warriors in Night Scythe
5 Warriors in Night Scythe
5 Warriors in Night Scythe
4 Wraiths
4 Wraiths
4 Wraiths
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

pretre wrote:Teasers are not unique to GW.

I understand the concept of teasers, but most of the time teasers are about the actual product prior to release day. In other words you'd be teasing about the release on the 23rd not teasing about announcing of the sale on the 30th a week later. Its just silly.

Kanluwen wrote:
GW remembers Genestealer Cults.

It's just they likely remember how silly they were as well, with limos on the battlefield and fat guys in chairs commanding mutants with sunglasses on.

Yes, but that's cool silly. Now GW just has sad silly.

andrewm9 wrote:

pretre wrote:Teasers are not unique to GW.

I understand the concept of teasers, but most of the time teasers are about the actual product prior to release day. In other words you'd be teasing about the release on the 23rd not teasing about announcing of the sale on the 30th a week later. Its just silly.

Yep, most of the time they are.

Kanluwen wrote:
GW remembers Genestealer Cults.

It's just they likely remember how silly they were as well, with limos on the battlefield and fat guys in chairs commanding mutants with sunglasses on.

Yes because nothing else in 40K IS or has been silly...

The core concepts and fluff of genestealer cults is very grimdark and a cool concept that fits perfectly int he 40K setting.

An updated look and image could be easily achieved.

Your post is a fail...

Therion wrote:Necrons 2K pts. Nothing weird except that with the last 180 points I got a third HQ (best unit in the codex) as a reward for Tomb World Alpha signing an alliance with Tomb World Beta. Of course if I wanted I could also drop a couple models from somewhere and buy a fourth Annilation Barge. Remember, the downside is that... wait a minute... forget it.

Overlord with Warscythe in CCB
Overlord with Warscythe in CCB
Overlord with Warscythe in CCB
Pulsetek
Pulsetek
5 Warriors in Night Scythe
5 Warriors in Night Scythe
5 Warriors in Night Scythe
5 Warriors in Night Scythe
4 Wraiths
4 Wraiths
4 Wraiths
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

You got an extra CCB lord, assuming allies let you ally with your own army....oh noes.

Therion wrote:Necrons 2K pts. Nothing weird except that with the last 180 points I got a third HQ (best unit in the codex) as a reward for Tomb World Alpha signing an alliance with Tomb World Beta. Of course if I wanted I could also drop a couple models from somewhere and buy a fourth Annilation Barge. Remember, the downside is that... wait a minute... forget it.

You're assuming that you'll be allowed to ally with other versions of your own army.

Edit: STOP NINJA-ING ME MAELSTROM

andrewm9 wrote:

pretre wrote:Teasers are not unique to GW.

I understand the concept of teasers, but most of the time teasers are about the actual product prior to release day. In other words you'd be teasing about the release on the 23rd not teasing about announcing of the sale on the 30th a week later. Its just silly.

I don't think you do understand the concept of teasers, actually.

Teasers are done far in advance of the product being available. They are usually 20-30 seconds and interspersed with very little in the way of "meat" for the product/film/tv show/whatever being teased.
The actual trailers usually start showing after the product is made available to purchase, through preorder or going to the shop.

Infinite_Array wrote:Yes, but that's cool silly. Now GW just has sad silly.

I hope you're being sarcastic; because I can see no real way in which a fat man in a chair surrounded by mutants with sunglasses and limos is "cool" or really making an allied force to Tyranids seem plausibly neat.

Gorechild wrote:

Therion wrote:Necrons 2K pts. Nothing weird except that with the last 180 points I got a third HQ (best unit in the codex) as a reward for Tomb World Alpha signing an alliance with Tomb World Beta. Of course if I wanted I could also drop a couple models from somewhere and buy a fourth Annilation Barge. Remember, the downside is that... wait a minute... forget it.

You're assuming that you'll be allowed to ally with other versions of your own army.

Edit: STOP NINJA-ING ME MAELSTROM

CT GAMER wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
GW remembers Genestealer Cults.

It's just they likely remember how silly they were as well, with limos on the battlefield and fat guys in chairs commanding mutants with sunglasses on.

Yes because nothing else in 40K IS or has been silly...

The core concepts and fluff of genestealer cults is very grimdark and a cool concept that fits perfectly in the 40K setting.

You'll notice I didn't say the "concept and fluff of genestealer cults is silly".

An updated look and image could be easily achieved.

Sure it can--but not as a part of the rulebook release.

As part of the Tyranid book being redone? Sure.

You got an extra CCB lord, assuming allies let you ally with your own army....oh noes.

You think it's no big deal of course. I think it's a rule we didn't need in the game. It's only used to break the FOC and get more of whatever that is cheesy.

Grey Knight 2K pts. Because they need help.

-Inquisitor Torquemada Coteaz
-5 Company Command, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Psyback
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Psyback
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Psyback
-10 Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-1 Vendetta, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
-3 Hydra Flak Tanks
-1 Psyrifleman
-1 Psyrifleman
-1 Psyrifleman

FYI that abomination above is the best army in the game. It also uses the new psychic shizzle.

Kanluwen wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:
An updated look and image could be easily achieved.

Sure it can--but not as a part of the rulebook release.

As part of the Tyranid book being redone? Sure.

The point is, they don't need to update them in-game at all - the background just needs to be there to justify a Tyranid/IG or Tyranid/Ork, or Tyranid/Tau alliance - they don't need to make new models or make a new army list or anything, they just need to say "Tyranids can ally with these races, because Cults" - it'll be up to the gamers if they want to convert models or expand the background for why the alliance exists, GW just have to allow it.

Kanluwen wrote:

Infinite_Array wrote:Yes, but that's cool silly. Now GW just has sad silly.

I hope you're being sarcastic; because I can see no real way in which a fat man in a chair surrounded by mutants with sunglasses and limos is "cool" or really making an allied force to Tyranids seem plausibly neat.

I think it's because I play Skorne, and one of the Warlocks I happen to like is this guy:


So, fat guys in chairs is apparently something I can get behind.

The new trailer is significantly (ie pretty much infinitely) better than the last one.

Still some fairly pants explosion sound effects, but I liked the music and pictures; kind of stirred my interest.

Chatlog rumors said the foc doubles at 2000+ points. That is probably why the white dwarf batrep has 3 hqs and 4 heavies in an army. I doubt allies buffs an army's foc slots but rather uses them up.

Charax wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

I'd even put money down on Tyranids getting at least 1 ally.

I wouldn't. The only way you'll see something even remotely close to Tyranids "allying" is that old method of "Two enemies fighting in the same time/place".

Genestealer cults exist in Human, Ork and Tau societies, and they fight alongside Tyranids in the early stages of an invasion (before they get nommed for biofuel)

Not that I imagine for one moment GW will actually remember this, or acknowledge it in rules form

Actually, cults have popped up in Eldar societies too.

EVERYONE LOVES THE FOUR ARMED FATHER.

tetrisphreak wrote:Chatlog rumors said the foc doubles at 2000+ points. That is probably why the white dwarf batrep has 3 hqs and 4 heavies in an army. I doubt allies buffs an army's foc slots but rather uses them up.

DOUBLES?

Like there isn't enough Chimeras running around with meltas bristling out of them....

I'd like 18 Hydra Flak Tanks please.

CT GAMER wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
GW remembers Genestealer Cults.

It's just they likely remember how silly they were as well, with limos on the battlefield and fat guys in chairs commanding mutants with sunglasses on.

Yes because nothing else in 40K IS or has been silly...

The core concepts and fluff of genestealer cults is very grimdark and a cool concept that fits perfectly int he 40K setting.

An updated look and image could be easily achieved.

Your post is a fail...

In fairness to him it's not an army that can be represented by a "mix of tyranids and IG" without very stringent limitations on the units that can be taken. The moment something other than a genestealer shows up it stops being a cult army. The cult doesn't fight for the swarm, they destabilize the world before it shows up. When it shows up they just sort of die.

AethyrKnight wrote:I haven't seen this here yet, but apparently its a scan of the psychic powers chart for 6th edition. Seems legit, and matches the powers in the DH rp etc:

I think Hermanes de Batalla translates as Sisters of battle (who get no psychic powers). So I guess they'll be in the rulebook as a normal seperate army. Guess that means they're definetly not being squatted.

Therion wrote:

You got an extra CCB lord, assuming allies let you ally with your own army....oh noes.

You think it's no big deal of course. I think it's a rule we didn't need in the game. It's only used to break the FOC and get more of whatever that is cheesy.

FYI that thing above is the best army in the game. It also uses the new psychic shizzle.

You assume I think it's no big deal because I play Necrons. I say it's no big deal because using the allies rule to simply add more FOC slots to your own army doesn't change the overall balance because at that point everyone can do the same thing and use the same process to take another counter to what you add.

Your Grey Knight list is a slightly better example of what can happen with allies, but still misses the point. Taking a top tier army and slapping units from another army in it doesn't do a whole lot, especially when that army could probably make a better list just by using the points within it's own codex.

The problem that can happen with allies is when you take a mid-tier army and shore up it's weaknesses with units from other dexes to make it a top tier army, while at the same time another mid-tier army that doesn't have access to any decent allies is left out in the cold.

ShumaGorath wrote:In fairness to him it's not an army that can be represented by a "mix of tyranids and IG" without very stringent limitations on the units that can be taken. The moment something other than a genestealer shows up it stops being a cult army. The cult doesn't fight for the swarm, they destabilize the world before it shows up. When it shows up they just sort of die.

Tyranid Prime converted up as a Cult Broodlord.
Primaris Psyker as a Magus from IG.
Genestealer broods as troops.
Penal Legion hybrids.
Brood Brother IG squads.
Chimera-Limos.


See where we go here?

This artwork makes me wet. Its like all of 40k condensed into one little picture.

Vitruvian XVII wrote:This artwork makes me wet. Its like all of 40k condensed into one little picture.

I agree, more of this art style please!
Less scribbley please.

Just Dave wrote:tely random 2D6" charge rumored in 6th. This is a silly complaint, because in 40k, you already get the 6" of movement in the movement phase, so there is a minimum charge distance.

I disagree with the 2D6" being a buff.

I feel that the chance of your unit rolling low and being stranded in the open outweighs a potentially longer assault range (whilst the average is only 7", compared to the current 6" anyway).
I like your idea of making units more than 12" away have to think about their options, but I don't think the action of sitting and shooting will change. I believe the chance that you'll move your assault unit into Rapid Fire or counter-charge range, only for them to be unable to charge is too big a loss compared to the potentially increased charge range.

Arguably, I shouldn't really be complaining as a Space Wolf player, as the buffs to rapid fire and [arguable] nerf to assaulting benefits my Wolves, who receive a charge, rather than commit one. This will be even nastier if Counter-charge can combine with Snap Fire...

Maelstrom808 wrote: You assume I think it's no big deal because I play Necrons. I say it's no big deal because using the allies rule to simply add more FOC slots to your own army doesn't change the overall balance because at that point everyone can do the same thing and use the same process to take another counter to what you add.

Your Grey Knight list is a slightly better example of what can happen with allies, but still misses the point. Taking a top tier army and slapping units from another army in it doesn't do a whole lot, especially when that army could probably make a better list just by using the points within it's own codex.

The problem that can happen with allies is when you take a mid-tier army and shore up it's weaknesses with units from other dexes to make it a top tier army, while at the same time another mid-tier army that doesn't have access to any decent allies is left out in the cold.

For instance, if Orks were to get IG as an Ally.
I'd take nothing but meltavets.
Finally Orks have a viable anti-tank!

Therion wrote:-Inquisitor Torquemada Coteaz
-5 Company Command, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Psyback
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Psyback
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Psyback
-10 Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-1 Vendetta, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
-3 Hydra Flak Tanks
-1 Psyrifleman
-1 Psyrifleman
-1 Psyrifleman

I admit this looks absolutely broken under the current rules, but let's wait and see how valuable metal boxes will be in 6th.

Then again, just adding some Vendettas should be enough to break any list.

Vitruvian XVII wrote:This artwork makes me wet. Its like all of 40k condensed into one little picture.

where's that from and what is it of? the palace?

From the teaser vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKi6Y5EFRIA&feature=player_embedded


I would guess its on Terra somewhere. Then again, it could be any shrine world ever

Yea, looks like some kind of procession at the imperial palace.

*GASP* What if it's people honoring the death of the Emprah?!

Doubt it. If it is supposed to be the palace im afraid its entirely too small in scope and scale for my tastes.

DarkStarSabre wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:In fairness to him it's not an army that can be represented by a "mix of tyranids and IG" without very stringent limitations on the units that can be taken. The moment something other than a genestealer shows up it stops being a cult army. The cult doesn't fight for the swarm, they destabilize the world before it shows up. When it shows up they just sort of die.

Tyranid Prime converted up as a Cult Broodlord.
Primaris Psyker as a Magus from IG.
Genestealer broods as troops.
Penal Legion hybrids.
Brood Brother IG squads.
Chimera-Limos.


See where we go here?

Yeah, you used all of two tyranid units and one was a counts as. You see what I mean by "stringent restrictions"?

morgendonner wrote:Yea, looks like some kind of procession at the imperial palace.

*GASP* What if it's people honoring the death of the Emprah?!

I'll celebrate

That picture could be anywhere in the Imperium. Terra is hardly alone with ornate palaces and gothic architecture.

Harriticus wrote:That picture could be anywhere in the Imperium. Terra is hardly alone with ornate palaces and gothic architecture.

Exactly.

Vitruvian XVII wrote:Doubt it. If it is supposed to be the palace im afraid its entirely too small in scope and scale for my tastes.

Hard to really judge that though, it could easily just be one walkway of the palace. The place can be seen from orbit, so this picture could be any small snippet of the entire structure, by no means does it have to be the "center-piece" in the inner palace.

I like the primarch statues.

Again: I get the ability to take proper daemons and traitor guard in regular games? I'm sorted.

assault length goes from static 6" to random 2d6 correct?

so i lose (potentially) 4" to gain (potentially) 6"

with an average of +1"

how is that not a buff? sorry if it sounds trite, asking in all seriousness

ShumaGorath wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
GW remembers Genestealer Cults.

It's just they likely remember how silly they were as well, with limos on the battlefield and fat guys in chairs commanding mutants with sunglasses on.

Yes because nothing else in 40K IS or has been silly...

The core concepts and fluff of genestealer cults is very grimdark and a cool concept that fits perfectly int he 40K setting.

An updated look and image could be easily achieved.

Your post is a fail...

In fairness to him it's not an army that can be represented by a "mix of tyranids and IG" without very stringent limitations on the units that can be taken. The moment something other than a genestealer shows up it stops being a cult army. The cult doesn't fight for the swarm, they destabilize the world before it shows up. When it shows up they just sort of die.

There's enough justification for something beyond that. If a Hive Fleet showed up at the same time a Cult was causing chaos they would coordinate.

Codex Tyranids 2e, wrote:Matters came to a head when rioting broke out at a Brotherhood mass rally held before the great cathedral. Arbitrators moved in to break up the crowds with power mauls and suppression shields but were fired on from the cathedral itself. The Arbites returned fire, killing several Brothehood militia and enraging the great mass of people. After beating off several charges by the mob the Arbitrators were forced to withdraw by the arrival of another, larger mob from the poor district.

Rioting spread throughout the city and the Arbites were unable to suppress it. When PDF troops were called from their barracks to assist the Arbitrators most of them rebelled and came out in favour of the Brotherhood. Vicious fighting broke out all over the city and, when it came to light that the Planetary Governor had been assassinated, the fighting spread to every city on Ichar IV. Within hours tanks daubed with Brotherhood symbols and flying crude revolutonary banners held most of the intersections and utilities in Lomas and the Imperial forces were being pushed back in other cities.
..
At the other cities the story was the same. The Brotherhood had the Planetary Defense armouries and the teeming populace to draw n for their soldiery, and they controlled the bulk of the planet's laser and missile silos. Siege and starvation would be necessary to drive them out.

I'm guessing that the palace is at the very least on Terra, as in the bottom left there are custodians. I don't think they leave Terra anymore.

RegulusBlack wrote:assault length goes from static 6" to random 2d6 correct?

so i lose (potentially) 4" to gain (potentially) 6"

with an average of +1"

how is that not a buff? sorry if it sounds trite, asking in all seriousness

Because it's random. Under current rules, you'll always get your 6" charge. Under 2d6", you MIGHT get your 12" charge, however, you MIGHT get 2".

Cerebrium wrote:

RegulusBlack wrote:assault length goes from static 6" to random 2d6 correct?

so i lose (potentially) 4" to gain (potentially) 6"

with an average of +1"

how is that not a buff? sorry if it sounds trite, asking in all seriousness

Because it's random. Under current rules, you'll always get your 6" charge. Under 2d6", you MIGHT get your 12" charge, however, you MIGHT get 2".

And over time those two outcomes will equalize.

For every instance where you fail a charge from 4" away and ruin your battle plan, there will be another instance where you successfully charge from 8" away and ruin your opponent's battle plan.

morgendonner wrote:Yea, looks like some kind of procession at the imperial palace.

*GASP* What if it's people honoring the death of the Emprah?!

It is VERY reminiscent of the scene celebrating the death of the Emperor on Coruscant at the end of the special edition version of Return of the Jedi...

yeah i kinda get that this could be bad

current rule set i move 6" and am still more than 6" away i get shot at for another turn.
new rule set i move 6" and can potentially assault up to 12" away if i make good, if not i still am exposed like in current rules

i guess its like taking a guarenteed 50% hit rate all the time or using a WS4 character i would assume to take the WS4 character because of the potential for greater output damage

but i have been wrong many times before, so.....

Well I quite like the Allies bit, it means I can make my raven guard with 3 stormtalons, 3 land speeders and a stormraven if i take BA allies.

Definitely some new art in that video--most of which was very good. The picture of the IoM city really captures the sense of scale 40k is to encompass--great stuff.

morgendonner wrote:Yea, looks like some kind of procession at the imperial palace.

*GASP* What if it's people honoring the death of the Emprah?!

I think they'd be rather busy with the daemon invasion if that's the case.
Just a wild theory, what if he's risen? Not to his full might but to a barely alive state where he still needs to sit on the throne but can speak with others, issue orders, etc.

dæl wrote:Well I quite like the Allies bit, it means I can make my raven guard with 3 stormtalons, 3 land speeders and a stormraven if i take BA allies.

Sounds awesome. I was bummed I could not provide Stormtalon escort to my GK Stormravens, but now... I can use the armies I have together lots of cool ways, excited to see clarification of the allies rules to start writing lists!

Will you be able to preorder a gamers edition at a GW store or just online? I forgot how 5th went down.

Sometimes a procession of worshippers is just a procession of worshippers. the palace on terra is the most holy place in all the Imperium, why wouldn't it always be full of pilgrims?

Looks like there are statues of the Primarchs in the distance, too. I see Sanguinius off to the right.

Therion wrote:Grey Knight 2K pts. Because they need help.

-Inquisitor Torquemada Coteaz
-5 Company Command, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Psyback
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Psyback
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Psyback
-10 Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-3 Warriors, Psyback
-1 Vendetta, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
-3 Hydra Flak Tanks
-1 Psyrifleman
-1 Psyrifleman
-1 Psyrifleman

The thing is you can do something similar with nearly any army. Take this eldar/dark eldar mix.

- Eldrad
- Archon w/agonizer, shadowfield, combat drugs
- 5 DA + wave serpent w/SL
- 5 DA + wave serpent w/SL
- 5 warriors w/blaster + venom w/dual cannons
- 5 warriors w/blaster + venom w/dual cannons
- 9 wytches + 2 razorflails + Hekatrix w/agonizer + raider w/dark lance
- 5 Fire Dragons + wave serpent w/SC + spirit stones
- 5 Fire Dragons + wave serpent w/SC + spirit stones
- 5 Fire Dragons + wave serpent w/SC + spirit stones
- 4 Trueborn w/4 blasters + venom w/dual cannons
- Ravager w/3 DL

Suddenly you have an army that was bottom tier, and your looking at a crapton of scary elements from both lists. Fortune and doom combined with wytches? Yes, please.
This was something I put together in 10 minutes time. I am sure there are dozens of new combos.

While its easy to look at the GK and say "Oh, this would be sick of I threw in a ...bla...". Remember that all armies get this as well, so you might see things like Tau broadsides helping C:SM.

Altruizine wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
GW remembers Genestealer Cults.

It's just they likely remember how silly they were as well, with limos on the battlefield and fat guys in chairs commanding mutants with sunglasses on.

Yes because nothing else in 40K IS or has been silly...

The core concepts and fluff of genestealer cults is very grimdark and a cool concept that fits perfectly int he 40K setting.

An updated look and image could be easily achieved.

Your post is a fail...

In fairness to him it's not an army that can be represented by a "mix of tyranids and IG" without very stringent limitations on the units that can be taken. The moment something other than a genestealer shows up it stops being a cult army. The cult doesn't fight for the swarm, they destabilize the world before it shows up. When it shows up they just sort of die.

There's enough justification for something beyond that. If a Hive Fleet showed up at the same time a Cult was causing chaos they would coordinate.

Codex Tyranids 2e, wrote:Matters came to a head when rioting broke out at a Brotherhood mass rally held before the great cathedral. Arbitrators moved in to break up the crowds with power mauls and suppression shields but were fired on from the cathedral itself. The Arbites returned fire, killing several Brothehood militia and enraging the great mass of people. After beating off several charges by the mob the Arbitrators were forced to withdraw by the arrival of another, larger mob from the poor district.

Rioting spread throughout the city and the Arbites were unable to suppress it. When PDF troops were called from their barracks to assist the Arbitrators most of them rebelled and came out in favour of the Brotherhood. Vicious fighting broke out all over the city and, when it came to light that the Planetary Governor had been assassinated, the fighting spread to every city on Ichar IV. Within hours tanks daubed with Brotherhood symbols and flying crude revolutonary banners held most of the intersections and utilities in Lomas and the Imperial forces were being pushed back in other cities.
..
At the other cities the story was the same. The Brotherhood had the Planetary Defense armouries and the teeming populace to draw n for their soldiery, and they controlled the bulk of the planet's laser and missile silos. Siege and starvation would be necessary to drive them out.

That story doesn't imply coordination. The cult causes chaos before the fleet gets there and the fleet is drawn to the cults psychic signature but they never actually communicate. The fleet doesn't differentiate between the cult and the actual planetary defenders, it eats them both as fast as possible. Genestealer cults are doomsday cults, they don't work in tandem with doomsday. When it shows up they lie down or go insane.

Allies hmm? I Mat have to pay for that Plague Hulk from ForgeWorld after all, just imagine three defilers and a soul grinder... AWESOMENESS!

the thing is you can do something similar with nearly any army.

Yes, you can ally with someone with nearly every army. Every army except Tyranids. You can't do anything similar to what I posted unless you're combining broken elements from two or more armies together to make an army that consists of nothing but broken units while also gaining extra heavy support slots and whatnot. Your list is a good example of an allied list noone would have any problems playing against. It's better than regular Craftworld Eldar, but it's still made out of xenos target dummies.

ShumaGorath wrote:

That story doesn't imply coordination. The cult causes chaos before the fleet gets there and the fleet is drawn to the cults psychic signature but they never actually communicate. The fleet doesn't differentiate between the cult and the actual planetary defenders, it eats them both as fast as possible. Genestealer cults are doomsday cults, they don't work in tandem with doomsday. When it shows up they lie down or go insane.

I messed up my edit, and meant to follow that quote with something like, "And if Kraken rolled up in the middle of this what do you think would happen?"

The Hive Mind is probably the best resource micromanager in the galaxy, and it just doesn't make sense that it would expend energy clearing the Cult at the same rate it would clearing the untainted defenders. It would almost certainly prioritize its strikes to take out loyalists first, then move on to the human rebels, and only then absorb the actual tainted cultists and purestrains.

Altruizine wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

That story doesn't imply coordination. The cult causes chaos before the fleet gets there and the fleet is drawn to the cults psychic signature but they never actually communicate. The fleet doesn't differentiate between the cult and the actual planetary defenders, it eats them both as fast as possible. Genestealer cults are doomsday cults, they don't work in tandem with doomsday. When it shows up they lie down or go insane.

I messed up my edit, and meant to follow that quote with something like, "And if Kraken rolled up in the middle of this what do you think would happen?"

The Hive Mind is probably the best resource micromanager in the galaxy, and it just doesn't make sense that it would expend energy clearing the Cult at the same rate it would clearing the untainted defenders. It would almost certainly prioritize its strikes to take out loyalists first, then move on to the human rebels, and only then absorb the actual tainted cultists and purestrains.

In fluff it doesn't appear to. The cults don't defend themselves, but the tyranids prioritize defenders. In fluff the cults tend to go insane or into an insane rage when the hive mind gets close. They turn into suicidal berserkers, go into comas, or just crawl up and die from fear. They're not in a "controlled" state. The hive doesn't really regard them as a military resource.

It's a pretty simple fluff tweak to have them be willing allies though, and would at least allow Nids an ally to use.

Vitruvian XVII wrote:This artwork makes me wet. Its like all of 40k condensed into one little picture.

Agreed. Once I get the book, that page is getting hi-res scanned and used as my desktop wallpaper!

Therion wrote:unless you're combining broken elements from two or more armies together to make an army that consists of nothing but broken units while also gaining extra heavy support slots and whatnot.

Agreed. Its important to note that what's broken in 5th may not be broken in 6th. Psydreads will lose a effectiveness if they are destroyed by 3 shaken hits. Hydras might not be able to shoot at ground targets and be restricted to only shooting at flyers/skimmers. Parts form pancake edition may come through limiting the range/fire points shooting from transports, making chimera-vets very limited.
Today that list you proposed is quite broken. I don't know how broken it would be under 6th.

Therion wrote:Your list is a good example of an allied list noone would have any problems playing against. It's better than regular Craftworld Eldar, but it's still made out of xenos target dummies.

Yea, but you got the point. You can take any army and combine it. These combinations might wind up with some very surprising results. Tau combined with C:SM is a good example. You can get broadsides and TH/SS termies, for example.

What this does is it helps any codex stay more competitive when dealing with the codex creep. You said yourself, the list I threw together in 10 minutes is better than craftworld eldar. I am sure you could make much better lists -- like combining the Eldar with IG. What does this mean for the guy playing an older army codex? He can go "Oh, wow, that new C:SM codex came out, and it has an awesome new unit. Well, I can keep playing my Eldar, and still enjoy the new models that came out"

From a marketing standpoint its bloody brilliant.

Bah, just found out that my GW location closed to move down the road and the location wont be open until friggin July.

Oh well, guess I'll have to come up with something else to do this weekend and hope the GW website announcement is tolerable.

Agreed. Its important to note that what's broken in 5th may not be broken in 6th. Psydreads will lose a effectiveness if they are destroyed by 3 shaken hits. Hydras might not be able to shoot at ground targets and be restricted to only shooting at flyers/skimmers. Parts form pancake edition may come through limiting the range/fire points shooting from transports, making chimera-vets very limited.
Today that list you proposed is quite broken. I don't know how broken it would be under 6th.

That's not entirely relevant. Whatever the new meta is will still have it's overpowered units and these rules appear to give access to those units in a quasi universal fashion.

What this does is it helps any codex stay more competitive when dealing with the codex creep. You said yourself, the list I threw together in 10 minutes is better than craftworld eldar. I am sure you could make much better lists -- like combining the Eldar with IG. What does this mean for the guy playing an older army codex? He can go "Oh, wow, that new C:SM codex came out, and it has an awesome new unit. Well, I can keep playing my Eldar, and still enjoy the new models that came out"

From a marketing standpoint its bloody brilliant.

Thats if it doesn't harm the games overall playability. More choices is good, but badly exploitable rulesets never last very long.

tuiman wrote:I kind of like the hull points one, means I can use landraiders and not be to scared of that lucky first turn lascannon shot.

I have a feeling hull points are not going to work like you think they might work. I could easily be wrong, but I'm pretty sure these aren't like structure points where you essentially can take wrecked/explodes results till you run out of points. I think it'll work something along the lines of every penetrating hit you take removes one structure point PLUS you take whatever damage result you roll on the table. If you get a wrecked/explodes result or you run out of hull points, your vehicle is done...which actually ends up being a nerf to vehicles.

Otherwise, with the amount of hull points that vehicles are being reported as having, you'll have 100-200 point vehicles that are about every bit if not more survivable as a 450 point super-heavy apoc vehicle.

I absolutely can't wait for this. Allies has got me more excited about this edition than anything else. I will finally be able to build the Chaos army I want to and which is supported in the background. The potential for an Eldar Corsair force of Eldar and Dark Eldar units? Yes please. Inquisitors leading IG units? Awesome! It's a fluff-nut's dream, and I couldn't care less about the fools who will abuse it, because I will never have to play against them. And noone else will for that matter if they don't want to.

Any tournament organizer will simply disallow allies, as has been stated on more than one occasion, which is totally understandable. However, I have to say I would really like to see the craziness people could create for events like Gladiator. It's one of the events where trying to bring the nastiest Allies combo would not only be welcome but really fun to watch.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Agreed. Its important to note that what's broken in 5th may not be broken in 6th. Psydreads will lose a effectiveness if they are destroyed by 3 shaken hits. Hydras might not be able to shoot at ground targets and be restricted to only shooting at flyers/skimmers. Parts form pancake edition may come through limiting the range/fire points shooting from transports, making chimera-vets very limited.
Today that list you proposed is quite broken. I don't know how broken it would be under 6th.

That's not entirely relevant. Whatever the new meta is will still have it's overpowered units and these rules appear to give access to those units in a quasi universal fashion.

What this does is it helps any codex stay more competitive when dealing with the codex creep. You said yourself, the list I threw together in 10 minutes is better than craftworld eldar. I am sure you could make much better lists -- like combining the Eldar with IG. What does this mean for the guy playing an older army codex? He can go "Oh, wow, that new C:SM codex came out, and it has an awesome new unit. Well, I can keep playing my Eldar, and still enjoy the new models that came out"

From a marketing standpoint its bloody brilliant.

Thats if it doesn't harm the games overall playability. More choices is good, but badly exploitable rulesets never last very long.

Not to mention that's under the assumption that all armies will have decent access to allies.

Allies honestly seem like they are unambiguously good for the game. If they're broken, then TOs won't allow them, so you'll only see them in fun games. If they're not broken, then they'll substantially add to the fun and diversity of the game. Either way, the playerbase wins.

Fetterkey wrote:Allies honestly seem like they are unambiguously good for the game. If they're broken, then TOs won't allow them, so you'll only see them in fun games. If they're not broken, then they'll substantially add to the fun and diversity of the game. Either way, the playerbase wins.

Agreed. I'm actually very excited about it, even being a competative type, id love to ally my daemons with some csm in fun games. I don't wanna have to build an entire csm army just to use some zerkers or something!

ShumaGorath wrote:Thats if it doesn't harm the games overall playability. More choices is good, but badly exploitable rulesets never last very long.

One way to look at the possibility is like multi-classing in 3.5 D&D. Through a multi-class you could get some of the best abilities of each class. There were times when you wanted to stick with one class for specific benefits of that class, but many players would splash into another class for flavor.

I agree that some combo like IG/GK might be the best. How is it different from GK being the best today?

Even if the GK/IG combo is 20% better than straight GK, if the Eldar/DE combo gains 50% power over craftworld Eldar, the overall power of the Eldar has increased, which helps to balance the codex creep. This is a good thing.

Some combo's might have to be banned -- its quite possible that through force multipliers a combo might be found that is unbeatable. Do you remember back in the days of MTG when you could cast bezerk 3 or 4 times on a creature? I am sure that will be addressed by the tourney scene if its out of hand -- either through banning of combos or banning of allies alltogether.

Fetterkey wrote:Allies honestly seem like they are unambiguously good for the game. If they're broken, then TOs won't allow them, so you'll only see them in fun games. If they're not broken, then they'll substantially add to the fun and diversity of the game. Either way, the playerbase wins.

Major rule splits between tournament/competitive and casual games doesn't sound good for the game to me. I can't think of any other game that has made something like that work well.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Allies honestly seem like they are unambiguously good for the game. If they're broken, then TOs won't allow them, so you'll only see them in fun games. If they're not broken, then they'll substantially add to the fun and diversity of the game. Either way, the playerbase wins.

Major rule splits between tournament/competitive and casual games doesn't sound good for the game to me. I can't think of any other game that has made something like that work well.

MTG has a massive split between tournament and casual play, and that's not exactly unpopular. I also hear that Warmahordes tournaments are quite restrictive, but I have no personal experience of that

"for my allies I'd like Corteaz, 2 x 3men melta squad and a vindicare."

Since we're waaaaay off from actual rumors at this point, should we just look for the lock?

As much fun as speculating on allies for 5 pages is.

Charax wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Allies honestly seem like they are unambiguously good for the game. If they're broken, then TOs won't allow them, so you'll only see them in fun games. If they're not broken, then they'll substantially add to the fun and diversity of the game. Either way, the playerbase wins.

Major rule splits between tournament/competitive and casual games doesn't sound good for the game to me. I can't think of any other game that has made something like that work well.

MTG has a massive split between tournament and casual play, and that's not exactly unpopular. I also hear that Warmahordes tournaments are quite restrictive, but I have no personal experience of that

But neither of those games need unofficial restrictions placed on them by the community. MTG has its dozens of formats, most of which have been created or maintained by WoTC. The same goes for WM/H - the Steamroller format, with its timed-turns and character restrictions, is PP's creation. So what does it say about GW when it's the community that has to say, 'Well, we can't possibly put this into tournament play and make it balanced', assuming that's actually the case?

ShumaGorath wrote:
Major rule splits between tournament/competitive and casual games doesn't sound good for the game to me. I can't think of any other game that has made something like that work well.

Each local meta will likely hew to either "all the gubbinz" fun play or more restrictive tournament play depending on the player mix. Tourney players won't want to waste time learning/using the funky stuff they'll never see in a tourney. More casual players won't want games with the restrictions. It'll be an ugly couple of months until the NOVA/Adepticon or other big TO groups get to some sort of usable standard.

Charax wrote:MTG has a massive split between tournament and casual play, and that's not exactly unpopular. I also hear that Warmahordes tournaments are quite restrictive, but I have no personal experience of that

A card game called "Warlord" is all the rage around here.
There is a big difference between tournament and casual play in what cards you can use.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Arschbombe wrote: More casual players won't want games with the restrictions. It'll be an ugly couple of months until the NOVA/Adepticon or other big TO groups get to some sort of usable standard.

Agreed. Enough of the tourney organizers are dedicated and commited enough to this game to generate a standard set of acceptable rules.

One example of this would be the INAT FAQ.

A card game called "Warlord" is all the rage around here.

There is a big difference between tournament and casual play in what cards you can use.

Saga of the storm? Does that still exist? Want to buy a dragonlord?

Fetterkey wrote:Allies honestly seem like they are unambiguously good for the game. If they're broken, then TOs won't allow them, so you'll only see them in fun games. If they're not broken, then they'll substantially add to the fun and diversity of the game. Either way, the playerbase wins.

I'm pretty surprised you'd post something as daft as that. You're a clever guy, you can do better. Allies are broken. They've always been broken and they'll always be broken. TOs won't allow them. Fun games already had access to allies because people who don't play to win and generally don't care much about the outcome of the game or the rule set were already using them with their opponent's permission. What changed was that before you had to house rule to allow allies, now you have to house rule to disallow them. It's a bad signal to send about something as blatantly imbalanced as allies.

In the hypothetical scenario that I was trying to design an alliance rules set myself for competitive games:

Playing an army from just one army book would have to have distinct advantages. It could be anything, for example increased morale or some combat bonuses. The allies could or should also cost an increased amount of points, for example 25% more, because they're from a different army book. Everyone can see the advantages of covering a distinctively shooty army's codex weaknesses by taking the strongest assault units from another codex, so what are the disadvantage of doing that? In GW's system there are none (Wake up, Purifiers not being able to board a Vendetta is not a weakness) and that leads to the end result that you'll never see mono-army book armies anymore. Is that the intention? It's not even aesthetically pleasing. For twenty years I thought that the idea of an army book is to tell the player what units and options his army has access to but apparently I was wrong. You can pick and choose from as many as eight (?) army lists if you're playing Imperium. If you play Tyranids you're restricted to eight (?) times less unit options and you were already doing rather poorly.

The way GW tried to implement allies failed (if any of these rumours and the information in White Dwarf is true) and it'll cause nothing but grief and annoyance. Most of the people who are in love with this system either don't understand the repercussions yet or were already using allies against their friends so nothing changed except they'll know they're playing legal armies now. Everyone else will just have to check the 30 page tournament or club house FAQ each time before attending in order to know whether anyone is playing mono-army book lists or in fact non-Imperials altogether.

Charax wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Allies honestly seem like they are unambiguously good for the game. If they're broken, then TOs won't allow them, so you'll only see them in fun games. If they're not broken, then they'll substantially add to the fun and diversity of the game. Either way, the playerbase wins.

Major rule splits between tournament/competitive and casual games doesn't sound good for the game to me. I can't think of any other game that has made something like that work well.

MTG has a massive split between tournament and casual play, and that's not exactly unpopular. I also hear that Warmahordes tournaments are quite restrictive, but I have no personal experience of that

Magic endorses those formats in its basic rules and the split between casual and format play is minor at best given the rotating block sales method card games use. If you are still buying then you're in current format and thus tourney. If you're not you're irrelevant. 40k does not work this way and can't.

To be honest im looking forward to the inclusion of allies immensely, daemonhunters are back and more customisable, chaos/LatD is back, and better than ever, and the sheer scope of the use of counts as now is wonderful. Full admech armies are now possible id imagine, eldar corsairs, exodites, expanded units that only exist in fluff for some armies, and ways to buff units that suck by count-asing them as something more up to date and fitting while keeping your armies flavour.

Sure some dicks will abuse it to no end, but those people will always find a way to ruin the game no matter what your playing so why worry? It seems to me like the rule of cool just got a massive buff

infinite_array wrote:So what does it say about GW when it's the community that has to say, 'Well, we can't possibly put this into tournament play and make it balanced', assuming that's actually the case?

GW has never cared about competitive tournament play, and that is not exactly a secret.

So I'd rather ask what it says about (a particular part of) the community? That they have unrealistic expectations?

infinite_array wrote:But neither of those games need unofficial restrictions placed on them by the community. MTG has its dozens of formats, most of which have been created or maintained by WoTC.

EDH (WotC calls it "Commander") was created by the community, with a whole set of new rules or rules changes (100 card minimum, deck construction limitations, special rules for generals, and an entirely new win condition). This format was incredibly popular with judges, so the rules were very carefully refined over time. Wizards now "supports" it, but it is still not sanctioned.

Two Headed Dragon was another community-created format because there wasn't anything official for multiplayer games. A couple of judges put a lot of work into refining the rules and pushing it as a standard format, and it was eventually accepted as a sanctioned format.

There are many common multiplayer variants as well, some of which have been "supported" by Wizards (featured on their site, or supported in MODO). These are all casual.

My main issue with allies is that not only do you have to balance the actual codex but you must also balance WHO they can ally with now as well.

Imperium has access to virtually everything where as other books are limited to a vastly smaller selection of combos. Granted, combos are a huge part of other miniature games but have never been that important to GW games. I understand the purpose of this is to A) Sell 1 or 2 units to people who play different armies so that you generate more $$$$$ and B) Wait, there is no B.. please refer to A. I hope the "fun factor" doesn't take a back seat to broken combos (i imagine it will as it does in other combo based games where players have to regulate themselves)

pretre wrote:Since we're waaaaay off from actual rumors at this point, should we just look for the lock?

As much fun as speculating on allies for 5 pages is.

That's what News and Rumours threads usually contain; the odd rumour, followed by large amounts of discussion upon said rumours.
Thankfully, this is actually staying on-topic.

That said, a new thread could be made by someone who would keep the title and opening post updated as rumours are posted; which is always much more practical (than searching for specific pages).

I don't really like the random charge length, as I try to reduce the randomness in my DE lists as often as possible.

From the latest teaser trailer:


I'd happily spend some extra on one of the special edition rulebooks for this.

oh i know...

Thats sexy that is....

Allies are going to rock.

Ogryns. In. Battewagons.

Comparisons to MtG are pretty flawed because it is a very different game to 40K. I don't think I need to go into why, but really, it is not the same at all. Apples to oranges doesn't even cut it, more like apples to pennies.

Is that Urien Rakarth?

Great pic. Too bad the DE seem to be getting the shaft in a lot of these rumors. We'll see. If they make skimmers harder to shoot, lose penalties for open-topped, and dark lances are deadlier, then maybe the trade-off is valid.

Jidmah wrote:Allies are going to rock.

Ogryns. In. Battewagons.

Depending on the restrictions, I would imagine Necron Lords with single Cryptek Solar Pulses will be everyones friend (that the matrix allows).

Kirasu wrote:My main issue with allies is that not only do you have to balance the actual codex but you must also balance WHO they can ally with now as well.

Imperium has access to virtually everything where as other books are limited to a vastly smaller selection of combos. Granted, combos are a huge part of other miniature games but have never been that important to GW games. I understand the purpose of this is to A) Sell 1 or 2 units to people who play different armies so that you generate more $$$$$ and B) Wait, there is no B.. please refer to A. I hope the "fun factor" doesn't take a back seat to broken combos (i imagine it will as it does in other combo based games where players have to regulate themselves)

Essentially the problem is that they invented a rule and then "balanced" it along flufflogical lines and not according to gameplay. Same thing goes for the new psychics.

But again, it'll be banned anyway in the places where more balanced gameplay is required. The argument over whether the ruleset *should* operate that way is a separate issue.

I think there's no question people will seek to abuse allies BADLY. Who else remembers the build-you-own vehicle rules from 3rd ed? Sure, some people used them to represent some cool fluffy scratchbuilds, but mostly players just tried to squeeze every last advantage they could outta them.

Harriticus wrote:Is that Urien Rakarth?

Should be a random haemi. Rakarth has this flesh thing on his back.

Harriticus wrote:Is that Urien Rakarth?

Considering the pose, I think it's a standard Haemonculus, maybe an Ancient, but not Rakarth himself.

I'm so excited about the upcoming Throne of Skulls.

First 15 places will be GK + Imp.

Way to go!

Kirasu wrote:My main issue with allies is that not only do you have to balance the actual codex but you must also balance WHO they can ally with now as well.

Imperium has access to virtually everything where as other books are limited to a vastly smaller selection of combos. Granted, combos are a huge part of other miniature games but have never been that important to GW games. I understand the purpose of this is to A) Sell 1 or 2 units to people who play different armies so that you generate more $$$$$ and B) Wait, there is no B.. please refer to A. I hope the "fun factor" doesn't take a back seat to broken combos (i imagine it will as it does in other combo based games where players have to regulate themselves)

I wonder why they went through the trouble of editing out allies in the old WH and DH PDF codices then? They thought it was important enough to do it then and now they put it back? Crazy.

The issue Allies brought in the past for me was that bcause the imperium has 8 books to choose from it tends to drive sales more and more toward imperial armies which means less xenos players and less xenos sales which tends to lead to even LONGER update waits. Not good at all in my opinion. I do love the appeal of being able to create new themed armies but they seriously should restrict the ally matrix better then we re hearing. For example, SW should not be able to ally with GK based on fluff from Armageddon, or Dark Angels due to the feud. Little restrictions so the imperium matrix is never more then 3-4 books. I guess we will wait and see, but unless Nids get a large buff, prepare to see even less of them show up to tournies then now sadly. Maybe this is GW way to kill the non sanctions tournie scene

why wouldn't SW and Gk work together because of arma?

The administratum were the ones that sent all the IG members to die, GK did their job.

Why don't we wait to see what exact allies rules will be before saying they will be banned from tournaments. If its that broken gw would not put it in the main rule book IMO. Gw prob would not put something in the main rules that tournaments will omit.

Kal-El wrote:Gw prob would not put something in the main rules that tournaments will omit.

GW is cancelling its tournament-involvement this year, correct? So then 'competitive' 40k wouldn't have a bearing on their development of 6th.

TOS is still on, last I heard.

Kal-El wrote:Why don't we wait to see what exact allies rules will be before saying they will be banned from tournaments. If its that broken gw would not put it in the main rule book IMO. Gw prob would not put something in the main rules that tournaments will omit.

Exactly you guys have no idea what the allies rules are. Saying somthing is going to be banned before you know what it is, is insane. What if its only for games 2500 points or more, and you can only have 500 pts of allies etc etc.

Awesome, so broadsides in every army now?

haroon wrote:

Kal-El wrote:Why don't we wait to see what exact allies rules will be before saying they will be banned from tournaments. If its that broken gw would not put it in the main rule book IMO. Gw prob would not put something in the main rules that tournaments will omit.

Exactly you guys have no idea what the allies rules are. Saying somthing is going to be banned before you know what it is, is insane. What if its only for games 2500 points or more, and you can only have 500 pts of allies etc etc.

How about you look at the evidence that has been gathered? I can already disprove your 500 points theory by pointing at the batrep picture and adding up the points for the Grey Knight allies.

infinite_array wrote:

haroon wrote:

Kal-El wrote:Why don't we wait to see what exact allies rules will be before saying they will be banned from tournaments. If its that broken gw would not put it in the main rule book IMO. Gw prob would not put something in the main rules that tournaments will omit.

Exactly you guys have no idea what the allies rules are. Saying somthing is going to be banned before you know what it is, is insane. What if its only for games 2500 points or more, and you can only have 500 pts of allies etc etc.

How about you look at the evidence that has been gathered? I can already disprove your 500 points theory by pointing at the batrep picture and adding up the points for the Grey Knight allies.

Its not a theory lol its an example to stress you have no idea what your talking about.

Edit: also, WD batreps brake the rules all the time.

infinite_array wrote:

haroon wrote:

Kal-El wrote:Why don't we wait to see what exact allies rules will be before saying they will be banned from tournaments. If its that broken gw would not put it in the main rule book IMO. Gw prob would not put something in the main rules that tournaments will omit.

Exactly you guys have no idea what the allies rules are. Saying somthing is going to be banned before you know what it is, is insane. What if its only for games 2500 points or more, and you can only have 500 pts of allies etc etc.

How about you look at the evidence that has been gathered? I can already disprove your 500 points theory by pointing at the batrep picture and adding up the points for the Grey Knight allies.

To be fair, battle reports are notoriously unreliable for divining rules from. Armies are frequently illegal or built on previous playtest versions and the games themselves use dubious rulings (rending thunderhammers on TWC?).

Grundz wrote:why wouldn't SW and Gk work together because of arma?

The administratum were the ones that sent all the IG members to die, GK did their job.

But it with the Inquisition / GK who sent the entire planet's current populace and the Guardsmen who fought with the Wolves to be worked to death in slave camps to prevent them from having any contact with other Imperial citizens. It pissed Logan off to a very high degree.

However, despite all of that and the Wolves getting all shooty on the Inquisition that one time I believe things have been pretty stable.

Overall, I'm desperately looking forward to this Allies things. Now I can paint up some of my IG to be Fenrisian PDF! (I know they don't really exsist, but it's fun), plus implement some of the ideas of my Wolf Lord's rise to power with some interesting allies...

Another cool side effect of allies is that the low point cost HQ's in some of the new books actually have a purpose now. Like taking a Brotherhood Champion for 100 to lead a small group of allied GK. The pure codex lists force you toward the best HQ, with mixing and matching you might have to compromise HQ power to get the variety of list you want.

Is Gamer's Edition online only or does anyone know yet? If I preorder online can I pick it up at a GW or must I preorder it at that store? Thanks for any help, I will be travelling over the next few weekends and want to be sure to get all the stuff I want.

FireWolf698 wrote:

Grundz wrote:why wouldn't SW and Gk work together because of arma?

The administratum were the ones that sent all the IG members to die, GK did their job.

But it with the Inquisition / GK who sent the entire planet's current populace and the Guardsmen who fought with the Wolves to be worked to death in slave camps to prevent them from having any contact with other Imperial citizens. It pissed Logan off to a very high degree.

However, despite all of that and the Wolves getting all shooty on the Inquisition that one time I believe things have been pretty stable.

If people want to know more about this, read Aaron-Dembski Bowden's The Emperor's Gift. It's a great novel.

infinite_array wrote:So... about Fortifications. I know I'm most likely wrong on this, but does anyone feel that GW has seen Battlefront's 'Battlefield in a Box' series (and by expansion, buying Fortifications for lists in-game) and said, 'Hey, we can do that, too'?

No, I think they played a lot of planetstrike.

That stuff is a fairly simplistic upgrade to some of the concepts in that expansion (you buy fortifications etc.).
The currency just changed thats all (now you spend points).

Just my perspective....

Now, the fact that it will sell more models...that part I do NOT think is a coincidence!

I predict a serious nerfing of Orks.....(groan)

Fleet now re-roll of charge distance
Nobs can be picked out and killed
No new Psychic Powers to choose from
Wound allocation gone
snap fire for further pain

Oh but its ok because we conveniently get access to a brand new flyer yay

Gonna pick a copy up but I fear the worse for the greenskins TBH

SIgh

Pretty sure run is still in the game, and Fleet will let you charge after you run.

Kirasu wrote:Pretty sure run is still in the game, and Fleet will let you charge after you run.

Fleet is potentially now a re-roll of the charge distance.....I hope you are right though

Grundz wrote:why wouldn't SW and Gk work together because of arma?

The administratum were the ones that sent all the IG members to die, GK did their job.

No, the Inquisition did it and the GK were one of the primary enforcers of that decision. The novel Emperor's Gift details that story a heck of alot more than the "grimnar gets a sad face when he thinks of it" history we had previously. Without spoiling it too much, the interaction of the =I= and GK with the SW was significantly more involved and violent that previously hinted at. A simple fluff solution to that "problem" would be to play SW in the other 9,500 years after the heresy before they wouldn't team up with the Inquisition and their agents.

Lovepug13 wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Pretty sure run is still in the game, and Fleet will let you charge after you run.

Fleet is potentially now a re-roll of the charge distance.....I hope you are right though

Yeah, it could also be both which would be nice. Otherwise that's another huge nerf to nids.

So far I'm very excited to see what 6th edition has to offer beyond the information at hand and filling in the details for some things.

I am however, as most are, not accepting of the 'allies' rules as they're being presented here. I sincerely hope that it's only for multi-player games or large games where the FOC become too restrictive.

Skarboy wrote:Great pic. Too bad the DE seem to be getting the shaft in a lot of these rumors. We'll see. If they make skimmers harder to shoot, lose penalties for open-topped, and dark lances are deadlier, then maybe the trade-off is valid.

I am holding out until I see the rules but the rumors have me terrified that my Coven list is hosed.....all that money....sigh.....

Does the new edition go on sale to customers on Saturday or do stores just get to order it from GW the day before? Just trying to see if making the 25 mile trek to the FLGS will be worth it (and they're closed M-T-W-R so I can't call them to ask).

Fishboy wrote:

Skarboy wrote:Great pic. Too bad the DE seem to be getting the shaft in a lot of these rumors. We'll see. If they make skimmers harder to shoot, lose penalties for open-topped, and dark lances are deadlier, then maybe the trade-off is valid.

I am holding out until I see the rules but the rumors have me terrified that my Coven list is hosed.....all that money....sigh.....

Look on the bright side, you can always pick up GK as your next army, they're not that expensive... GW seems to be forcing people to play SM anyway. 40k is not meant for competitive play, apparently. That is, as long as you're playing a Xenos army.

I have little faith in 6th edition if vanilla marines are gonna be stronger in psyker powers than chaos marines. Unless chaos get their own psyker abilites not in the core rulebook, I'm done. Vanilla marines have tons of restrictions on them and yet they have more access to psyker powers than chaos marines who are tied to the damn warp, the source of power for psykers.

ShumaGorath wrote:Major rule splits between tournament/competitive and casual games doesn't sound good for the game to me. I can't think of any other game that has made something like that work well.

Tournaments having a 'no allies' rule isn't really what I would classify as a 'major rules split'...

Many tournaments had such a rule for the entire lifespan of the DH and WH codexes, and all the way through 2nd edition. It wasn't a problem for most players.

You have to take into account the rumors of a new codex for chaos being around the corner. The current selection may be from the height of 4e blandhammer but its not likely to last long.

Mandor wrote:

Fishboy wrote:

Skarboy wrote:Great pic. Too bad the DE seem to be getting the shaft in a lot of these rumors. We'll see. If they make skimmers harder to shoot, lose penalties for open-topped, and dark lances are deadlier, then maybe the trade-off is valid.

I am holding out until I see the rules but the rumors have me terrified that my Coven list is hosed.....all that money....sigh.....

Look on the bright side, you can always pick up GK as your next army, they're not that expensive... GW seems to be forcing people to play SM anyway. 40k is not meant for competitive play, apparently. That is, as long as you're playing a Xenos army.

Well if my theory on the lore is true and the Imperium starts to crumble under its own weight, then Space Marines can potentially have wars between themselves. Then GW can kill off all the other races, eldar die out, Tau shut up and just hide, necrons go take a nap, nids just go away, and everyone else goes with them.

From what I'm seeing of the new pychic powers chart I am already furious, if they change the eldar lore I will quit, I almost quit from the necron update, this game to me is cool battles and stories in an interesting universe, but if their going to pull out a "oh but wait he has THIS power too and hes immune to EVERYTHING" then its just not going to fun to me or any of my friends, none of the five of us play any inperium. I don't want to play a game where I'm just an interesting target to be slaughtered and it makes me sad that in this game I have to worry about that. I have been to the skein and seen a terrible flow in the strands of fate.

Sincerely, a concerned farseer

PS thank you for listening to my raging rant/ next ed. theory......kinda

kenzosan wrote:I have little faith in 6th edition if vanilla marines are gonna be stronger in psyker powers than chaos marines. Unless chaos get their own psyker abilites not in the core rulebook, I'm done. Vanilla marines have tons of restrictions on them and yet they have more access to psyker powers than chaos marines who are tied to the damn warp, the source of power for psykers.

How do you think Eldar players feel? They've seen their powers get more irrelevant with almost every codex release since 5th edition. And now almost every marine army and their offspring get access to more psychic powers than they do. At least your CSM codex is (rumored to be) close to launch.

Altruizine wrote:If a Hive Fleet showed up at the same time a Cult was causing chaos they would coordinate.

No they would not. Hormagaunts don't look at a Brood Brother as a friend and ally. They look at him as food.

Genestealer Cults get eaten by the swarm just like everything else.

insaniak wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Major rule splits between tournament/competitive and casual games doesn't sound good for the game to me. I can't think of any other game that has made something like that work well.

Tournaments having a 'no allies' rule isn't really what I would classify as a 'major rules split'...

Many tournaments had such a rule for the entire lifespan of the DH and WH codexes, and all the way through 2nd edition. It wasn't a problem for most players.

It was nice though to have an edition where a tourny could simply list a point total and call it a day instead of back in 3rd edition where they had to either exclude or include specific white dwarf lists, variant and temporary codex armies (like armageddon or 13th crusade), etc. I agree that it's not a major split but the whole situation could have easily been resolved with a few words in the book ("with opponent's permission"). Who knows... maybe there is a line in there with that and the few people that glanced at the book just didn't notice it.

Fetterkey wrote:Allies honestly seem like they are unambiguously good for the game. If they're broken, then TOs won't allow them, so you'll only see them in fun games. If they're not broken, then they'll substantially add to the fun and diversity of the game. Either way, the playerbase wins.

Wait, hold up... two things here cannot work together:

"...unambiguously good for the game..."
"If they're broken, then TOs won't allow them..."

If they're (potentially) broken, then how are they then "unambiguously good"?

Mandor wrote:

kenzosan wrote:I have little faith in 6th edition if vanilla marines are gonna be stronger in psyker powers than chaos marines. Unless chaos get their own psyker abilites not in the core rulebook, I'm done. Vanilla marines have tons of restrictions on them and yet they have more access to psyker powers than chaos marines who are tied to the damn warp, the source of power for psykers.

How do you think Eldar players feel? They've seen their powers get more irrelevant with almost every codex release since 5th edition. And now almost every marine army and their offspring get access to more psychic powers than they do. At least your CSM codex is (rumored to be) close to launch.

I play both, check my sig. I'm just staying there is absolutely no reason for chaos to be worse than vanilla in psyker powers. Eldar may limit themselves because of their past. But why would chaos ever limit their powers. I can explain Eldar, I can't explain Chaos.

Question, if I play allied CSM and used Chaos Daemon allies, Can I, say, have bloodletters as my only troops? Or will I be forced to fulfill the force organization chart from CSM before taking allies?

kenzosan wrote:

Mandor wrote:

kenzosan wrote:I have little faith in 6th edition if vanilla marines are gonna be stronger in psyker powers than chaos marines. Unless chaos get their own psyker abilites not in the core rulebook, I'm done. Vanilla marines have tons of restrictions on them and yet they have more access to psyker powers than chaos marines who are tied to the damn warp, the source of power for psykers.

How do you think Eldar players feel? They've seen their powers get more irrelevant with almost every codex release since 5th edition. And now almost every marine army and their offspring get access to more psychic powers than they do. At least your CSM codex is (rumored to be) close to launch.

I play both, check my sig. I'm just staying there is absolutely no reason for chaos to be worse than vanilla in psyker powers. Eldar may limit themselves because of their past. But why would chaos ever limit their powers. I can explain Eldar, I can't explain Chaos.

That is true, the eldar do intentionally limit themselves, but thats no reason to make them just fodder for space marines and the other armies, which is what I fear.

I DO NOT WISH TO GO THE WAY OF SQUATS!

Phragonist wrote:Question, if I play allied CSM and used Chaos Daemon allies, Can I, say, have bloodletters as my only troops? Or will I be forced to fulfill the force organization chart from CSM before taking allies?

The rumours so far are saying you have to fill your compulsory slots from your own list first.

Exactly what you can take as allies is still unclear.

Cypher's Sword wrote:, none of the five of us play any inperium...

You're doing it wrong.

It's a game for humans, written by humans, who's central characters are humans.

Eldar - Dying Race who likes to prance into hand to hand
Dark Eldar - Dying Race who wears leather and prances into hand to hand
Squats - Dying Race that doesn't even gets mentioned, that's how few of them there are left.
Necrons - Dead Race - Space Marine Tough, but really they are just on borrowed time. No one will really care about them until the next Terminator movie comes out.
Tyranids - Intergalactic Boogeymen. There for target practice, and eating people unfortunate enough not to be space marines.
Chaos Marines - Marine Group that should be getting smaller all the time, and should be gone already reallly, but GW's sculptors love to sculpt bizzare stuff so they keep going.

Genestealer Cults - Should still exist but somehow GW does there damndest to ignore them.

Orks - suppossedly the largest armed population of all the known races in the univerese. Too busy with civil wars to actually be a signicant threat. Somehow evolved to have inferior eyesight and can no longer use ranged weapons as effectively as most races do.

Guys, we will be moving all 6th ed convos over to this thread -

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456706.page

Kroot is pretty good about keeping the title up to date etc, so it will help us avoid duplicates... thanks for your understanding and by all means pick up where you left off!

Cheers guys -