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1.5K, the most common points value for tournaments around here, doesn't really allow lists to have any fat in them. It has to be all trimmed down to the useful items. So, how well do you think a 'two of everything useful' approach would do overall with the new Orks? This list is sort of symmetric and completely unimaginative, but quite flexible. Do you think this is the type of dominating list we'll be facing at 1500 points for the next couple of years? I guess I'll be joining the Ork bandwagon next month with something like this in the pipeline, and it seems to me that the army is quite adept at dealing with all types of opponents, even other Ork armies. Is it optimal?

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Big Mek
Kustom Force Field

Elites:

12 Lootas

12 Lootas

Troops:

30 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 3 Rokkit Launchas

30 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 3 Rokkit Launchas

Fast Attack:

15 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

15 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Grand Total: 1500 points exactly
Total Models: 116

Well, it certainly has no fat, but it also doesn't have very many units. You only have 6 scoring units, and 2 of them will be sitting in terrain shooting for all they're worth! It might be in your interests to make the 2x30 shoota boyz into 3x20. Or find a way to squeeze in a 'copta or two.

Follow whitedragons advice.

Maybe run Zagstruk in one ove your stormboyz squad.

whitedragon wrote:Well, it certainly has no fat, but it also doesn't have very many units. You only have 6 scoring units, and 2 of them will be sitting in terrain shooting for all they're worth! It might be in your interests to make the 2x30 shoota boyz into 3x20. Or find a way to squeeze in a 'copta or two.

Make a list suggestion. What would you drop to accommodate the Deffkoptas? I'm not sure why the smaller Boyz units would be better. It would require me to drop something off the list to finance that third Nob, and the morale of the units would be considerably weaker, but I'll bite and post a new list.

vogelfrei wrote:Follow whitedragons advice.

Maybe run Zagstruk in one ove your stormboyz squad.

Replace Zagstruk with what? He's not a free upgrade you know, and he comes with drawbacks.

This list would have 1 more unit, same amount of klaws than before, but more dakka. I'm not really sold on those 45 point Rokkitkoptas at this points limit. I could afford two by dropping six Lootas, or one by dropping three. I don't like Zagstruk at all because of his drawbacks and my shortage of points. Snikrot is slightly better and I would probably field him if he had a Power Klaw.

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Big Mek
Kustom Force Field

Elites:

12 Lootas

12 Lootas

12 Lootas

Troops:

20 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 2 Rokkit Launchas

20 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 2 Rokkit Launchas

20 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 2 Rokkit Launchas

Fast Attack:

15 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Total Points: 1500 exactly
Total Models: 113

Very shooty for Orks.
Maybe change the Rokkit Launchas for hvy dakka? Those lootas should be enough antitank and you should fear stealer shock and IG gunline...and rokkits are inferior against both.

Alternatively I could go with something more aggressive like the following. So many choices...

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Elites:

12 Lootas

12 Lootas

11 Kommandos
1 Snikrot, 2 Burnas

Troops:

20 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 2 Rokkit Launchas

20 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 2 Rokkit Launchas

Fast Attack:

15 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

15 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Total Points: 1500 exactly
Total Models: 107

The other list is probably better. Those Kommandos would need a ride and cost a lot of points.

vogelfrei wrote:The other list is probably better. Those Kommandos would need a ride and cost a lot of points.

They walk in from another table edge.

So, how about this then? Not enough models? Seems more fragile than footsloggers but the 36 Lootas can be deployed into the open with the Mek, and all the other stuff would close in with the enemy real fast.

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Big Mek
Kustom Force Field

Elites:

12 Lootas

12 Lootas

12 Lootas

Troops:

12 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Rokkit Launcha

Trukk
Red Paint Job, Armor Plates

12 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Rokkit Launcha

Trukk
Red Paint Job, Armor Plates

Fast Attack:

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Total Points: 1500 exactly
Total Models: 92

People seem disinterested in Ork lists, or all lists, or my lists, but I'll keep posting untill I find the perfect list.

How about this for aggression? Lootas rely on cover now, morale isn't high, but the potential for carnage is huge.

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Elites:

10 Lootas

10 Lootas

10 Lootas

Troops:

12 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Rokkit Launcha

Trukk
Armor Plates

12 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Rokkit Launcha

Trukk
Armor Plates

Fast Attack:

16 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

16 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Total Points: 1500 exactly
Total Models: 90

Same list could go without Trukks in the following form:

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Elites:

10 Lootas

10 Lootas

10 Lootas

Troops:

20 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 2 Rokkit Launchas

20 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 2 Rokkit Launchas

Fast Attack:

15 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

15 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Total Points: 1500 exactly
Total Models: 102

You're following the same lines of thought I would, so you're on the right track. Your first list is pretty close to the first 1500 Point list I put up here. Though I'm surprized to see you on Orks, what happened to the Mech Eldar?

I'm experimenting at 1750 since that's what the US GT's are, but I need a 1500 list too.

I'm finding that you want two CC Mobz (Storm Boyz), but if points are tight I'd go with a Maxed out Snikrot Mob + 2 Burnas and one Storm Boyz Mob.

The Kommandos will help a ton vs. a lot of armies that can reliably kill 60 Footslogging Orks before they get there, even with cover (Tau, IG). They're essentially another "Guaranteed Assault" a lot like the Warboss.

I think two Bike Bosses are overkill, I'd rather have another scoring unit doing something. Why no attack squig on him, not enough Points?

Also, why would you go with three units of Lootas? They need cover to be deployed in to be used successfully, with two units, it's hard to get them all into cover and deploy "the horde".

I've found in my games that even at 1750, two units of 12 were enough. And honestly, if you're playing against someone who knows what they're doing and the tools to do it (Crisis Suit Tau, Mech IG) the Lootas will die first since they can put out the shots to worry 12 Orks at long range, even in cover.

The real conundrum comes into Troops. I feel that anything less than 80 Orks (and then I want them in 4 units) and your opponent won't have problems killing that before they do anything halfway decent. You need multiple units for them to work right, since if you lose a unit (and you will lose units when certain targets get close to you), it doesn't hurt as much and you have other units close by to shoot/charge in.

To be honest, I'm not sure which way to go at 1500, you can't quite fit in a good number of Orks while taking the two units of Lootas and two units of Storm Boyz or Storm Boyz + Snikrot's Mob.

Maybe it's better to go Mounted? Though I'd use Sluggas in Trukks instead of Shootas?

You're following the same lines of thought I would, so you're on the right track. Your first list is pretty close to the first 1500 Point list I put up here. Though I'm surprized to see you on Orks, what happened to the Mech Eldar?

Nothing. It's my army. Pics were posted on the modelling forum a while ago by the painter. The Falcon for example:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee9/Jutami80/Falcon3.jpg

Orks just happen to have really sweet internal balance in the new codex and seems to be a fun army to have alongside my Eldar. I got a sweet modelling idea for them as well. Trying to go for a dark cyberpunk approach with borg like techno-Orks. Don't know yet if I can pull it off.

The Kommandos will help a ton vs. a lot of armies that can reliably kill 60 Footslogging Orks before they get there, even with cover (Tau, IG). They're essentially another "Guaranteed Assault" a lot like the Warboss.

Sure they will help against those two armies, but what if it's a mech Tau army or any other mechanised force and you're playing escalation, and you have to go first? Now you got a 250 point slugga mob with no claw and possibly no rokkits.

Also, why would you go with three units of Lootas?

Well I'd prefer to have 36 of these guys. I'd love to have a KFF for them just in case it's an open field, but I hate paying 85 points for a model that doesn't do anything.

I feel that anything less than 80 Orks (and then I want them in 4 units)

It's easy to fit 80 Shoota Boyz into a 1850p or 1750p list, but 1500p is a whole different story if you want to have some diversity and support units to go with them.

To be honest, I'm not sure which way to go at 1500, you can't quite fit in a good number of Orks while taking the two units of Lootas and two units of Storm Boyz or Storm Boyz + Snikrot's Mob.

Maybe it's better to go Mounted? Though I'd use Sluggas in Trukks instead of Shootas?

Well one could go with double Warbosses, four Trukks full of Boyz, two units of Stormboyz and one unit of Lootas as backup. Your worry about not fitting enough Orks is an illusion however since you are apparently trying to gear against 1750p enemy armies with your 1500p concepts.

I'm undecided at the moment about the Sluggas vs Shootas issue regarding Trukk mobs. Sluggas provide a few normal attacks in an assault but Shootas are nice to have in case your ride gets popped early and you have to slog it.

€dit: right about the kommando thingy. i see, i cant give much advice, you already got it better than me btw i love your falcon!

How would this be for a shock assault army?

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body, Attack Squig

Warboss:
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Elites:

10 Lootas

10 Lootas

Troops:

12 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Trukk
Armor Plates

12 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Trukk
Armor Plates

Fast Attack:

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Total Models: 90

OR

----------


HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Elites:

10 Lootas

10 Lootas

Troops:

12 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Trukk
Armor Plates

12 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Trukk
Armor Plates

12 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Trukk
Armor Plates

Fast Attack:

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Total Points: 1500p exactly
Total Models: 102

Actually I like the last list with the single Warboss so much that I'm sticking with it for a while. Comments on it? It has 7 Power Klaws, a nice model count considering it's ultra fast, and yet some Loota support.

It's good, I just wish there was something to screen the Trukks.

I do think that you're better off going with the mounted approach at 1500 than you are with the horde style.

Only issue is that Trukks and Storm Boyz want to be hidden if at all possible, meaning the Lootas are going to be the only target when you get your best deployment setup. With only 10 Models it can be troublesome.

Vs. Tau or IG at 1500, I think you're going to have a hard time, but that's almost any list you'll do at 1500.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:It's good, I just wish there was something to screen the Trukks.

I do think that you're better off going with the mounted approach at 1500 than you are with the horde style.

Only issue is that Trukks and Storm Boyz want to be hidden if at all possible, meaning the Lootas are going to be the only target when you get your best deployment setup. With only 10 Models it can be troublesome.

Vs. Tau or IG at 1500, I think you're going to have a hard time, but that's almost any list you'll do at 1500.

Well, the Lootas are going to suffer some casualties in that scenario but it's a whole different story if I get the first turn. Then the opponent is looking at a single turn of shooting and it won't be directed at the Lootas.

I'm going to go on record right now with a few possibly controversial statements:

1. 30 shootaboyz is more than 50% better than 20.
2. stormboyz will be great for 6 months, then people will start adding indirect like mad and we'll start replacing them with more shootaboyz.
3. koptas rock. The ability to scout 24", which I beleive is unique to them, will make for some nifty first turn charges to disrupt all sorts of stuff. Hit and run is also a neat feature. But all of that is outweighed by a cheap objective grabbing unit that can turbo at games end and has two wounds, so a single lucky bolter shot doesn't take it down. People take speeders just for objective grabbing. This is a speeder with an invulnerable save.

I have to admit, I agree with the stormboyz comment. Played the new ork dex a month or aso ago, my opponent made me into meat, but I trashed his stormboyz. Don't remember the flow of the battle (so I realize that I am of little real use to you here), and "One iteration means nothing", but there it is.

Marines can take Whirlwinds and IG Have Basalisks, that's the only indirect I'm aware of in game.

Sure Marines loading up on Whrilwinds will be rough, but it's not like that kind of list won't demolish a horde anyway. Heck three can wreak most Ork lists even if they were mounted, there's not much you can do about it. The only saving grace is that the Whirlwinds aren't as good vs. Nidzilla or other power lists, as such there is little incentive to take them unless Orks start coming around in droves.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Marines can take Whirlwinds and IG Have Basalisks, that's the only indirect I'm aware of in game.

Some of us Guardsmen have been known to take mortars. In my experience they actually have proved pretty useful at inflicting casualties on large units with armor saves worse than 3+. The Ork LD rules will stop the pinning, but against a large unit it wouldn't take that much luck to whittle down the Stormboyz.

The ability to scout 24", which I beleive is unique to them

I was just informed that the Dark Angels Codex says 'remember that no bikes may turbo-boost as their scout move' or something to that direction. It would of course trump the Deffkoptas as well. I do agree that Koptas are still a nice unit, whether they can scout 24" or not. Someone should check this one out.

I wouldn't be so fearful of indirect fire. People don't use Whirlwinds now simply because they suck. People won't add masses of them to all-rounder tournament armies just so that they can fight Orks better. Maybe the single Whirlwind becomes mandatory once again, but Stormboyz are still a bargain at 12 points. They move so much faster than normal Boyz that I actually think the Boyz will suffer more than twice the amount of casualties during the approach than Stormboyz, making the footsloggers' huge numbers a mere illusion.

1. 30 shootaboyz is more than 50% better than 20

I also think that three units of Stormboyz are more than three times better than a single unit of Stormboyz. If you're rushing you better do it with as many guys as you can get.

Therion wrote:

The ability to scout 24", which I beleive is unique to them

I was just informed that the Dark Angels Codex says 'remember that no bikes may turbo-boost as their scout move' or something to that direction. It would of course trump the Deffkoptas as well. I do agree that Koptas are still a nice unit, whether they can scout 24" or not. Someone should check this one out.

It does, but there's no way a dark angel bike rule has anything to do with orks jetbikes. First, it's a dark angels rule, and second, it's a bike rule, not a jetbike rule (and jetbikes are not a subset of bikes, but their own distinct unit type).

It does, but there's no way a dark angel bike rule has anything to do with orks jetbikes. First, it's a dark angels rule, and second, it's a bike rule, not a jetbike rule (and jetbikes are not a subset of bikes, but their own distinct unit type).

Yep, that's one way of looking at it.

One thing that came to my mind about Whirlwinds, is that Snikrot and his boyz do counter them rather well, considering they have a maximum reach of 18" when they enter. My list could drop either the Lootas or one Stormboyz unit or one of the Trukk mobs plus couple other Orks to fit the special Kommandos. That way the enemy armies would be pressured from two sides, and in most cases a lot of Ork units would be assaulting on turn two.

Alternatively, if one of the Stormboyz units was lead by Zagstruk, I could try to drop right on top of the Whirlwind tanks in case I need to destroy them as soon as possible. All in all it seems that the Orks have an answer for everything as long as you can fit all the right elements into the same list.

For example, a list like this:

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Elites:

11 Lootas

10 Lootas

9 Kommandos
1 Snikrot, 2 Burnas

Troops:

11 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Trukk

11 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Trukk

Fast Attack:

13 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

13 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

13 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Total Points: 1500p exactly
Total Models: 95

Your small squad sizes really scare me. Are you just going to assume that you'll lose portions of your army to running off the board?

Why would you not pay for a Bosspole (in those mobs that can take one)? To me, that seems like a mandatory item for any mob under 20 Orks.

yakface wrote:
Your small squad sizes really scare me. Are you just going to assume that you'll lose portions of your army to running off the board?

Why would you not pay for a Bosspole (in those mobs that can take one)? To me, that seems like a mandatory item for any mob under 20 Orks.

I'm very aware that the squads are small, but you must remember that buying bosspoles would mean making the squads even smaller than before and that would be counter productive. Would you rather drop a squad to make the other ones bigger, and then suffer from the problem of not having enough scoring units?

Could go for something like this, but shuffling the unit sizes in what is essentially the same list doesn't make a big difference in my book.

HQ:

Warboss:
Bike, Power Klaw

Elites:

10 Lootas

10 Lootas

9 Kommandos:
1 Snikrot, Burna

Troops:

10 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Trukk

10 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Trukk

Fast Attack:

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole

Total Points: 1499
Total Models: 95

5 mobs of 10 and 3 mobs of 14 plus the boss and two cars.

OR

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw

Elites:

10 Lootas

10 Lootas

9 Kommandos
1 Snikrot, 2 Burnas

Troops:

12 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole

Trukk

12 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole

Trukk

Fast Attack:

14 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole

12 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole

12 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole

Total Points: 1500
Total Models: 95

I have to second the "get a dethkopta" comments. For only a few points, you get a fast scoring unit when you need one, and the ability to tie up a lot of enemy shooting early in the game if you need that.

I think lootas are going to have better synergy with a footslogging hoard than a trukker mob. if you're going to use truks you had better take more than 2 or enemy Anti tank is going to make short work of them. lessons hard learned while playing KOS. towards the tailend I ran 4 trukks, and sometimes that wasn't enough to guarantee decent assault if there isn't enough cover.

other than just using the best units for points cost, are you looking towards a specific style of play?

with how far stormboyz can potentially move now over 2 turns (up to 42 inches into assault) I can't imagine that a mob of trukkers can get to the enemy at the same speed. meaning voodoo's assesment of them really being THAT good is quite true.

the other problem I see with going with trukks over foot sloggers is the lack of rokkits in the army. yes the lootas can glance skimmers but other than klaws I don't see any real way of dealing with whirlwinds or other tanks.

rokkit deathkoptas fufill the tank hunting role better than tankbustas (thats really sad)

2-3 rokkits per shoota mob are also a huge help.

so without taking away from your list here is one to consider:

Warboss Bike, Claw, Squig, cybork armor

Lootas (15)

Lootas (15)

Shoota Boyz (21) 2 rokkits, nob w/ klaw, bosspole

Shoota Boyz (21) 2 rokkits, nob w/ klaw, bosspole

Stormboyz (20) Nob w/ klaw

Stormboyz (20) Nob w/ klaw

113 models

1500 seems a little tight to me, I'd rather play 1750 personally. I love the biker boss, but I think he is too expensive in here for what he does. switching out for a warphead gives you almost another whole mob of boyz to work with and you could trim some lootas to end up with 3 mobs of 20.

Warphead

Lootas (12)

Lootas (12)

Shoota Boyz (20) 2 rokkits, nob w/ klaw

Shoota Boyz (20) 2 rokkits, nob w/ klaw

Shoota Boyz (20) 2 rokkits, nob w/ klaw

Stormboyz (20) Nob Klaw

Stormboyz (20) Nob Klaw

125 models

I'd rather deny the use of their anti tank entirely... just my .02


NaZ