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NaZ wrote:I think lootas are going to have better synergy with a footslogging hoard than a trukker mob. if you're going to use truks you had better take more than 2 or enemy Anti tank is going to make short work of them. lessons hard learned while playing KOS. towards the tailend I ran 4 trukks, and sometimes that wasn't enough to guarantee decent assault if there isn't enough cover.

You're right about the number of Trukks regarding assault, but I'm using them because they make cheap core choices that can potentially keep up with the Stormboyz. If I get one move with the Trukks I am satisfied. Remember that back in the days of your four Trukks you didn't have masses of Stormboyz and biker Warbosses supporting the assault. Additionally, I really don't like the idea of moving 6" per turn with masses of models. I want my units to be either really shooty or really fast. Of course I could skip Lootas altogether and go for assault only but I couldn't shake any vehicles anymore from range after that. I see what you're saying though.

So how about this. Larger units across the board and a couple bosspoles, at the expense of 8 Lootas. Somehow I get the feeling that this is about as good as it gets for Orks at 1500 points. Needless to say, it isn't bad at all.

##The ultra-fast cc army with some deffgun support##

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Elites:

12 Lootas

11 Kommandos
1 Snikrot, Burna

Troops:

12 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole

Trukk

12 Slugga Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole

Trukk

Fast Attack:

16 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

16 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

16 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

Total Points: 1500p exactly
Total Models: 99

For more shooty lists I would now probably go with one of the following. Well, I guess I've drafted all the lists I need for now. Let me know if you have a favorite.

##The shooty army that is particularly dangerous to mech Eldar and Tau##

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Elites:

12 Lootas

12 Lootas

12 Lootas

Troops:

20 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 2 Rokkits

20 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 2 Rokkits

Fast Attack:

15 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

15 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

1 Deffkopta
TL Rokkits

Total Points: 1500p exactly
Total Models: 108

##The balanced army with a mix of various useful units##

HQ:

Warboss
Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body

Elites:

11 Lootas

11 Lootas

11 Kommandos
1 Snikrot, Burna

Troops:

20 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 2 Rokkits

20 Shoota Boyz
Nob, Power Klaw, 2 Rokkits

Fast Attack:

15 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

15 Stormboyz
Nob, Power Klaw

1 Deffkopta
TL Rokkits

Total Points: 1500p exactly
Total Models: 106

I really like the final list. At 1500 points, I can't really come up with a good counter( it has enough bodies to absorb losses in assault vs. Godzilla and can threaten mech lists) . I believe Lootas are just too good to not use. My only concern is running 11. After a few casualties, won't they be forced to make LD tests with a low LD?

2nd list looks great to me. Maybe think about adding a Mek.

I know this is not the Loota, SB fest everyone is doing but let me plead my case. One, as sick as Lootas are I will have LOS issues with all the vehicles on the board. Two, Warbuggies, give good reliable mobile firing and takes heat off the trucks. Three, I’m not ready to commit to two big SB units yet or a retrofit past 1500pts till the 5ed rules come out. Got a feeling that all bikes/JB will be fearless (no hard evidence or rumors just a hunch) and this may make a build out with other units more viable. Finally, most of this I own and is painted ie lazieness

HQ
Warboss, WB, PK, AS, Cy

Troops


12 Slugga Boys w/Stick bombs
Nob, PK, BP
Truck, RP, Ram, AP

12 Slugga Boys w/Stick bombs
Nob, PK, BP
Truck, RP, Ram, AP

12 Slugga Boys w/Stick bombs
Nob, PK, BP
Truck, RP, Ram, AP

20 Shootas w/Stick bombs
Nob, PK, BP
Fast Attack

3 Warbuggies w/ twinlinked Big Shootas and RP

3 Warbuggies w/ twinlinked rokkits and RP

20 Stormboyz
Nob, PK, PB

Heavy Support

Battlewagon, Red, Ram, GK, AP

I like warphead over warboss at 1500. I almost like two warpheads since you get them for the cost of a warboss.

I don't have exact points but something I'd consider is:

Warphead with the reroll

2 x 12-14 lootas

X (as many as possible) x 12 shootaboyz with a rokkit and pklaw nob

3 x 1 buggy with rokkit

3 x 1 kan with some kind of gun


I am not sold on stormboyz at all. As fast as they are, they will not reliably kill anything in combat after they get shot up for a turn. And unless you play with optimally positioned terrain against an idiot opponent, they are gonna get shot up.

Another thing that might do well at 1500 is the shootie mob.

2 x mek with SAG

2 x 12 lootas

X (as many as possible) x 20 boyz with 2 rokkits (no nobs)

3 x 3 killakanz with rokkits

Use the kans for counter assault and just use your cheap rokkit squads to do the dyin.

I agree Longshot, I think a mob of SB are a real good choice in a KOS army like mine but I'm not ready to put all my eggs in that basket just yet. The 5ed rules may be just around the corner and 12-20 more SBs are gonna cost a considerable amount of dough + painting time.

On the other hand against Necrons the ability to chase teleporting troops without getting back into a truck is kinda huge.

I dunno about the Crons. I think Trukkboyz will put a serious hurting on Crons (or they should if you roll ok with the nob

The teleporting Crons is a bad matchup for orks though flat out. If he has more than one teleport you are just screwed. Orks cannot win against monolith crons (Period).

Two monoliths will table an ork army in like 3 turns of gauss flux arcing.

I want to believe that Snikkrit and his kommandoes are very, very good as they break a fundamental rule of the game. That being said, Therion's balanced list looks quite good to me. There are going to be points values and unit numbers that should minorly shift with playtesting, but I think it is going in the proper direction of powerful 1500 point Ork armies.

Two monoliths will table an ork army in like 3 turns of gauss flux arcing.

Please post a 1500 point Necron all rounder tournament list that will table any Ork army in 3 turns.

I am not sold on stormboyz at all.

That's baffling. A unit of 16 will dish out 60 attacks at S4 and 5 S9 klaw attacks, and will make combat on turn two every game.

Finally, most of this I own and is painted ie lazieness

Umungaz, why are you posting lists about your own painted models, in my army list thread?

Therion wrote:Nothing. It's my army. Pics were posted on the modelling forum a while ago by the painter. The Falcon for example:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee9/Jutami80/Falcon3.jpg

Ok who painted that? That's a real nice paint scheme, I'd love to know how it was done.

Lastly, on your Ork army--you have spread yourself out across all 3 types of Ork armies without actually focusing in on one type.

Assault, mid range shooty, long range shooty.

Go with just 1. That means not putting out 2 units of storm boyz, getting them shot dead by a superior shooting army, and then losing your lootas to superior shooting, and then watching your king nob on bike get owned by his assault units...I mean, honest, you gotta go with 1 theme and stick the right pieces into the army.

This army needs a strong focus. I don't think you have one.

This army needs a strong focus. I don't think you have one.

It's been proved time after time that armies that split their focus 75%/25% to shooty/assault or assault/shooty are very succesful. Besides, pay some attention to my lists. The cc list has only assault units that are backed up by 180 points of guns that hold the home quarter. The other lists are bristling with guns and get support from a couple mobile assault elements. I think you're both wrong about my lists and about what it takes to be succesful in a competitive 40K tournament.

"That's baffling. A unit of 16 will dish out 60 attacks at S4 and 5 S9 klaw attacks, and will make combat on turn two every game. ".....that they aren't shot off the board.

There, I fixed it for you.

Sotrmboyz are a decent unit for sure, particularly in an army with trukks to hide behind, but they're still a very, very fragile unit that dies to every basic gun in the game in droves.

It's been proved? By whom?

Did you think I wasn't paying attention to your list?

Since you seem to be in a snit, I'll try and let you down kindly.

Your list is bad.

The reason it's bad is, I can beat it with ANY army, ANY day of the week.

Here's how it works:

Turn 1.

My shooty armies pummel your storm boyz until they are dead. Most of my armies will take 1 turn to do this since you don't have maximum squads.

Now you have no close combat threat except kommandos and your warboss.

If your warboss is riding with the storm boyz, he's going to be caught out on his own on your turn 2 and HAVE to come forward and assault (and die) or run away--and what good is that?

Turn 2.

Now your walking orks are closer by 6". I finish off any surviving storm boyz and prepare for the Kommandos to come in. Got it, punching bag unit ready and counter-assault unit standing by.

Deffkopta in multiple of 1 is sucky at best, but I suppose by this time I've arranged to kill it.

Now my anti-infantry fire works over one of your Ork mobs. If it isn't dead, it will be reduced to complete ineffectiveness. If you Waagh'd, the closer one gets shot dead. If you didn't, I pummel both squads equally...

Turn 3:

If you haven't Waagh'd yet, you will to try to get what's left of your foot sloggers forward. I finish them off, or reduce them to next to nothing.

Turn 4:

I kill your shootas. You fail your personal morale test.

Your other version, the one with trukks and boyz...I still kill all your stormboyz first, and punch your trukks with my anti-tank.

Then rinse and repeat.

108 Orks at 1500 points is, frankly, not enough for a BS2 army that moves 6" a turn on most of it's troops.

It's dead easy to kill.

This won't be successfull in a competitive 40K tournament because it's just no damn good, you bought all the bells and whistles but forgot to buy the car!

Nothing personal, get a focus for your army.

@Therion: Sorry for thread jacking, I was just skimming this at work and thought people where posting lists for consideration. Also I think that the "balanced army list" you posted would be your best bet for a solid tourney army in the immediate future. Personally I gotta make my KOS army live again, I miss it way too much.

108 orks in 1500 points is more models than any other army save maybe Guard will field.

I think most people are overlooking your points level. In a take-all-comers 1.5k army I really doubt you'll be able to knock out both Stormboys units in one turn, unless you field a much larger number of Heavy Bolters than most (and props to you if you do, but it's not a common build, and it'll hurt against Zilla and Mech Eldar.)

Stelek, you suck at warhammer, seriously.

When your plan involves 'my enemy stands in front of my guns, so I mow him down' it's a bad plan.

mauleed wrote:I'm going to go on record right now with a few possibly controversial statements:

1. 30 shootaboyz is more than 50% better than 20.

Could you expand this statement a bit or direct me to a thread where you have already done so? Thanks.

Sure.

Shootaboyz will need to remain fearless in order to be effective. Whittle them down to less than 10, and you're going to be able to make them run at some point, either from shooting, or more likely in assault.

And you have to kill 100% more models before a mob of 30 cares.

If I had alot of free time, and tournaments around here were 2000 points, the first 1500 points of my army would be 180 shootas, because there simply isn't any reasonable way any army can deal with 180 fearless models.

Stelek: Post any 1500 point list as I'd love to see how you are causing 60 wounds on turn 1. I'll even assume your opponent is a complete twit and places all 60 models in play view and not in cover.

Off topic: I just got the Spearhead boxset and am very, very happy to see Lootas are plastic. Very cool models indeed.

Yep Mauleed, of course. The unit does have its counters, but that doesn't change the fact that its rock solid.

108 orks in 1500 points is more models than any other army save maybe Guard will field.

...and they're all T4, and for 85 points buy 5+ invulnerable saves.

Your list is bad.

The reason it's bad is, I can beat it with ANY army, ANY day of the week.

Please, stop. You're embarassing yourself. Bigtime.

You have absolutely no idea of my win/loss ratio and general tournament efficiency and yet you make claims that you can defeat me and those Orks with particularly any army. I'd be willing to bet against that for any amount of money. Not to mention the fact that all three of the lists that I posted are nearly perfect for what they are trying to be -- Balanced 1500 point armies designed to do well in tournaments against all comers. Feel free to disagree, but instead of running your mouth, make a thread about your 1.5K tournament army. While you're at it, list all the reasonably sized (40 or more players) tournaments you've placed in top3 with it. This is all necessary information after a blanket statement like yours. As you're such an incredible player, you must've had years and years of constant success at tournaments.

Turn 1.

My shooty armies pummel your storm boyz until they are dead.

You should start writing White Dwarf In Tactica articles. Shoot the enemy till it's dead!

Stelek, you suck at warhammer, seriously.

Don't you just love it when you don't even need to play against someone to discover he has no idea what he's doing.

Therion wrote:

Two monoliths will table an ork army in like 3 turns of gauss flux arcing.

Please post a 1500 point Necron all rounder tournament list that will table any Ork army in 3 turns.

Lord, orb (140)

2 x 10 warriors (360)

3 x 6 immortals (504)

2 x monolith (470)

What do I win?

I guess 3 turns is a bit of an exaggeration but I don't think it would go well for the boyz.

Regarding Stormboyz--

If the KFF moved 12", I would be more behind them. You are not gonna be turn two charging unless you have pretty good terrain, most games.

I'll wait to say for certain until I see them a bit more, but I have a bad feeling they are too good to be true and will wind up getting shot to death a lot.

Mauleed and Therion, are you trying to get banned, is that the idea?

Keep your personal insults to yourself, I know I'm tired of trying to have an intelligent discussion with you two and getting slammed.

You can show me the board can hide this Ork army, I guess I'll have to wonder if there's any army can tackle you and your uber terrain pieces.

Or were you not planning on shooting with all those lootas?

So now I'm done the other lists.

1500 points. Space Marines and IG, that can wreck this Ork list of yours.

Ok I guess.

Marines first, since that's really easy.

1500 Pts - Space Marines Roster - Marines

1 Master @ 76 Pts
Bolter

4 Devastator Squad @ 147 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Devastator Squad @ 150 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolter; Tank Hunters

4 Devastator Squad @ 150 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolter; Tank Hunters

4 Tactical Squad @ 90 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 90 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 90 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Devastator Squad @ 150 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolter; Tank Hunters

4 Devastator Squad @ 150 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolter; Tank Hunters

4 Devastator Squad @ 150 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolter; Tank Hunters

7 Assault Squad @ 120 Pts
Remove Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x7); Close Combat Weapon (x7)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Remove Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol & CCW

7 Assault Squad @ 136 Pts
Remove Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol (x7); Close Combat Weapon (x7)
1 Sergeant @ [17] Pts
Remove Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol & CCW

Total Roster Cost: 1499

Bang. How long do you live, again? Two turns before you give up? Or are we going to play 'I can hide my Orks from ALL your shooting then youwinomz'?

Come on, be serious.

Beh. Don't really feel like making a 1500 point IG list for ya. Might be the rudeness. Another day maybe.

I'm heading off for the holiday weekend so I don't have time to properly moderate this thread, but let me just take a moment and say that Mauleed, Therion & Stelek you all need to calm the accusations, insults and bravado way the heck down.

There simply isn't any reason to turn any thread about a game into a pissing match. If you don't care for the tactical advice someone has suggested feel free to ignore their post or politely respond why you disagree.

I'm not going to lock this thread because other people seem to want to stay on topic and discuss Ork lists, but if the attacks continue to escalate the thread will be locked and those involved will either be warned and/or temporarily suspended (depending on the previous warnings received).

Seriously, just let the argument go and have a merry christmas!

Stelek wrote:So now I'm done the other lists.

1500 points. Space Marines and IG, that can wreck this Ork list of yours.

You're way off with that list. Sure a competitive player won't have to sweat a lot to get good results against Orks with that, but let's face it, that's a really weak all rounder tournament army. It's great that first you say the Orks are so weak that you can beat them with any army any day of the week, and then you post a list that is specifically designed to handle hordes. A list you've never won a major tournament with. Bang. How long do you live, again, against mech Eldar, mech Tau, twin lash Chaos and Zilla with that? Two turns before you give up?

Lord, orb (140)

2 x 10 warriors (360)

3 x 6 immortals (504)

2 x monolith (470)

What do I win?

It's a little low on Necrons. Maybe you'd be better off with 30 or 40 Warriors. Tough nevertheless. The only reason I don't love Necrons is that although Monoliths are a hard counter to certain armies they are a little bit of a liability against the lascannon or railgun gunlines some people like to build.

Trying to get back on topic.

Therion. Here are my suggestions and theories baaed on the type of ork list you want.

HQ.

Bike cybork warboss with klaw. - Little disagreement here, though I would give him an attack squig.
BTW I am building the same except I am mounting a normal warboss model on a cyboar (counts as: bike, choppa, cybork and attack pig) the twin linked shoota becomes the dakkagun.

Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun.
- I cant iterate this enhough, an Ap2 ordnance weapon that cannot be picked out is too damn good. More than worth his weight in lootas.

Elites.

Kommandos with burnas.
- Six of them, just six with one or two burnas. Get close, flame and die. Might take them might not. Might consider a suicide infiltrating klaw too.

Lootas
- I will start with two units of six (well hidden) then add every spare point back into them later. I would rather have two mobs of 6 rather than one mob of 12. Though 2x12 is better still. Sure they run easy, but as ssoon as they do they stop shooting. A mob of 12 taking casualties will quickly get to the point where it will run taking six or so lootas out of the game. Having a low 50% mark means that they can more likely rally. Let alone hide. I am concerned about getting a useful cover save for a large loota mob, and splitting them means they cannot so easily be tied up in assault.
So start with 2x6, then add extra orks (in pairs) later if points remain.

Troops

Shoota boyz
- Take six mobzsand work out mob size afterwards. More mobs means more klaws. Assuming a healthy minimum of twenty orks each this eats a little over half your points. I honestly think that mobs of 30m can be vulnerable to assaults as it can be easy to keep the klaw out of combat if you attack the orks, and they can get in the way of the rest of your horde. A greater 'density' of klaw nob coverage from smaller mobz is better. Sure some might start losing fearless, but they will in return be smaller remnants and fewer orks fleeing overall.

Fast Attack

Koptas
- I am convinced by the arguements for single cheap koptas. Slam them into the first line of the enemy and block LOS for your boyz to march behind. If they die they die.

Stormboyz.
- In this list I would do without. Koptas get the early spoiling attacks in and by not taking Stormboyz you can take more shoota boyz and lootas.

Heavy Support

Kans!
-Mobs of three, one with big shoota and armour plates leading the way, two with kustom blastas to provide much needed Ap2 shooting. A nice add on up to 1850, but boosting lootas will be better.

@Stelek: Gotta say your SM list would rock most new school Ork lists I've seen and I think it wouldn't be a bad all around tourney list. However, I've played in a few GT's and a lot of RTT/independent tourneys since I started playing in 95'(2nd ed) and have never seen a SM army with that many SB devastator squads. If this army existed in great numbers out there I wouldn't play Orks at all, but it just doesn’t.

@Longshot: I know there is a lot of teleporting goodness in that cron army, but the phase out would just be too achievable especially with lots of Storm Boyz and Lootas. Therions list will have 100+ boots on the ground so you would never be able to teleport completely out of range of some sort of death and if any unit gets caught in HTH between the PK/slugga Nob (that will be in every Ork unit now) and FC the low number units will be going down.

On the other hand, against my KOS army your cron list would rock, as I wouldn't have the back field of a more conservative list like Therions. I would have to bank on the turn I Waagghhh, to kill multiple units whole sale to have a chance.

@Therion: still gotta go with your "balanced list" for the reasons I've stated above.

@Yakface: Tell everyone in the BA merry x-mas for me.