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As you can probably guess I have decided to start a thread whose purpose is to generate a Dark Angels Tactica Article. I am basing the format around Voodoo Boyz Ork Tactica to keep things consistent. It is my feeling that Dakka, as a site, would great if it had a Tactica for every published codex. I decided to do a DA one because it is an army I am excited about, and have been play testing. Now, I am not a DA veteran though they will be my sixth MEQ army, but just like the Ork Tactica, this will be a collaborative effort. I will post a section with my own thoughts and experiences on the individual choices, with further modification by you guys if you think I missed anything.

READ THIS FIRST!!!

I will not be comparing the DA codex with the existing Space Marine codex. There are two reasons to this, first because a SM codex may be around the corner (relatively) and I don't want what I wrote to be invalidated when that happens. Second, there are some obvious advantages that codex has over the DA one and that is a subject of sour grapes, which I don't want this thread to become a complaint thread. This is about the DA codex only, treat it as its own separate army.

Unit Evaluation

What I'm going to attempt to do is go through each unit in the Dark Angels Codex and evaluate its overall level of utility (Poor, Semi-Competitive, and Competitive). Then we will go into various configuration options (if any) and identify optimal ones, fun alternatives, and what to avoid.

Here are the definitions of the clasifications:

Competitive - Is a defacto choice if you plan to take to an army to a RTT environment with the desired outcome to win. Usually this is one of the first units you would consider when building such a list.

Semi-Competitive - Are units that may see a RTT environment but isn't necessarily the right choice. Alternatively they may fit into a nice battlefield role but could have another choice in the codex either be cheaper and accomplish the same things, or just a little too expensive for their use. This doesn't mean that the unit is necessarily bad, just hard to use and / or equip.

Poor - Are choices that may never see use in anything but a fun game or an Apocalypse game where pesky things like points and winning doesn't matter too much.


General Advice

I would like to come up with some general advice that will be useful to Dark Angel players. I will address "pure" armies (such as Ravenwing and Deathwing) in appendices after this is over.

Please understand that you may not agree with everything I say nor my take on certain things. Please keep things as civil as possible, and be constructive with your critism. If you disagree please tell me where and don't be offended if I or other people don't agree with you. Understand that everybodies play area is different, and I fully believe that some things just don't work for some players as they work for others.

If you're going to post something, please preface it with which section you're writing for. I should have the HQ section up tonight.

Unit Evaluation: HQ

I am going to hold off on the special characters until last as they require rather extensive coverage. Especially Belial and Sammael. Right now I am going to stick the the basic characters.

Interrogator-chaplain and Chaplain
Utility: Competitive

I lumped the two choices into one entry as most of the tactics are the same between the two and there are only minor differences. This is by far the best generic character available to the DA and can serve as either the primary commander or as a good secondary HQ.

Choosing which Chaplain to take is a matter of role and points you are willing to spend. Essentially the Interrogator Chaplain pays "x" number of points more for an extra wound and access to Terminator Armor.

However you wish to arm him, you are going to want to give him a squad to lead around. Otherwise you are wasting his two great abilities, the ability to make any unit he joins fearless and the ability to have said unit re-roll to hit rolls on the turn they charge. So knowing which unit you are going to attach him too is crucial.

Equipping the Chaplain:

The best load outs are the following two:

Powerfist and Jump Pack
Powerfist and Bike

I have recently been shown many examples of why you should almost always give the chaplain a powerfist. There are many advantages and reasons to do so. You don't loose your power weapon, so when, and I emphasize when you find yourself in combat, you will be best equip to handle any challenge. Use the power weapon in attacking low toughness models or are afraid of the enemies hidden powerfist. Use the powerfist when attacking targets like other toughness 4 Independent Characters or units like Terminators, where you can't avoid the return powerfist attacks so would rather make every wound count (not that charging Terminators is a good idea, but situations like that are bound to happen, or be the only good choice at the time). I mention other toughness 4 Independent Characters because you have an excellent opportunity to take them out. Chances are that such characters will not statistically kill your Chaplain before he gets to strike considering they have to get past your 4+ Invulnerable Save. You follow that up with 5 re-rollable powerfist attacks, and chances are you are going to insta-kill your opponent.

Movement is really based around what units you decide to take with him. The Jump Pack will probably take preference because the best unit to run him with are Assault Marines. I would recommend not taking him in Terminator Armor as his roll becomes a little muddled. He is not really gaining any benefit from the armor, and your possibility of delivering him with a unit of Terminators into combat are few and far between. Especially considering you are either riding in an expensive Land Raider which can only occasionally reach its target, or he is deepstriking with a unit of Terminators, hoping that the opponent is not smart enough to flee or shoot the unit off the table.

Special Consideration:
My favorite Chaplain use so far is on a bike in my pure Ravenwing lists. A great assault element to have in that list is a unit of 6 bikes, the Ravenwing Standard, and an attached chaplain. The Chaplain gets 6 attacks on the charge, whilst you have another 4 Powerfist attacks and a unit of bikes backing you up with 3 attacks each, all with re-rolls on the charge. Taking this unit is a standard list is probably not a good idea though as it would require you to take Sammael making the whole combination to expensive. But if you are sticking to just bikes (more of this later), the Chaplain can be a great asset.



Company Master
Utility: Semi-Competitive

The Company Master is somewhat of a mystery as far as his use. At his base cost, he is not that bad, considering he comes with an Iron Halo Standard as well as provides the Rities of Battle benefit.

Where he comes into problems is placing him into lists. As a secondary HQ in a shooty list, he seems to really benefit the army. Remember, when you combat squad a unit the Leadership 9 Sergent can only be in one squad, and in a shooty army that means that half of your ground squads are only leadership 8, the boost to 10 is a real benefit at that point. Especially when it comes to Target Priority tests. However, it will always be a hard time coming to find the points for him.

The best equipment I can think for him is thus:

Jump Pack, Twin Lighting Claws

I wouldn't attach him to an Assault Squad. I think his role is best served keeping alive for your shooty squads and play counter assault when things turn sour.

Even then, his return on the investment of points you put into him will be hard to justify him. I would take him if you are finding leadership to be a real issue for you.

Special Consideration:
There is something to be said about keeping him cheap, especially in smaller games like combat patrol, where you want to field a cheap HQ with the maximum benefit. Keeping him on foot with maybe only a Power Weapon and / or Combi-weapon could provide a use.



Librarian
Utility: Semi-Competitive

The Librarian is the biggest disappointment in the codex. The only thing keeping him from a poor rating is his use as a good secondary HQ in a pure Deathwing Army.

First lets look at his benefits. He puts a Leadership 9 hood on the table, which though isn't great, sometimes it's better then none. He also comes with a Force Weapon standard, but the problem with that is that most things you would want to kill with it are of such a high toughness it is hard to put the necessary wounds on them, the Force Weapon would rarely be used. Besides, the better IC hunter is the Chaplain with Powerfist.

Lets look at his powers. First off there is Force Barrier. The only advantage to this power is that it is a defensive power. Meaning you will almost always have access to it. However the utility of it is rather useless. You can only save one wound, which though it might get you occasionally out of a bad situation, it doesn't help you when your opponent is playing smart. And considering this is supposed to cover the fact that you have no invulnerable save only adds insult to injury. The second is Hellfire. It's essentially a glorified flamer, and though it may see its use occasionally, I can't imagine a situation where a Librarian would get himself into charge range and possibly denying himself the charge by using this power.

So I have lead myself to the conclusion that Terminator Armor is almost mandatory is you want to field this character. It gives him a proper Invulnerable save, and gives him the option to deep strike and use Hellfire up close and personal without feeling like you denied yourself the charge. Once you are in Terminator Armor, the Combi-weapons become more appealing. Considering you can't get an extra CC attack anyway, and their relatively cheap price, you can increase his utility. You already have Hellfire, so the Combi-flamer is useless, but a Combi-plasma or Combi-melta will increase the usability of the character for minimal points. I find this configuration useful in Pure Deathwing lists as it gets me a hood and is a good support character for a unit of Terminators.


Command Squads
Utility: Poor

Command Squads are a rather peculiar squad, because they are essentially a 5 man Marine unit with overtly expensive upgrades and no real definable battlefield roll. The thing that really puts the nail in their coffin is that Veterans can do most everything they can do but with greater squad sizes and better weapon access. There are three upgrades that makes the Command Squad unique.

Company Standard - For the same amount of points to field the squad and this upgrade, I can field a Company Master which has a greater morale benefit.

Apothecary - This can be useful and if he saves one model all game he makes his points back, but in a squad that can be wiped out so quickly he will find himself useless.

Company Champion - As cool a model he is, a non-character with a shield is useless because rarely will he be the target of a powerweapon attack himself and the he has too few power weapon attacks to make the difference.

Also another thing stacked against them is the fact that they are not a retinue for the character you purchase them for. Which means that any transport you give them will almost shut the character out from joining them, considering that if they have a transport, escalation can take them off the board. This isn't more true then taking a drop pod which your character can't join. The only way to utilise the character with the squad effectively is to deploy them together on the ground.

The only use I can see for this unit is as small special weapon suicide units in drop pods. But Veterans can even do that better. I guess if you have already filled the elite slots and still need one such unit, then they might become useful. But that would never happen.


HQ Summary

Outside of the Chaplain, there is really no clear winner in this category. The Chaplain will probably be your first choice when it comes to standard Tournament lists with his utility. Besides that there isn't a lot of clear winners. The Rites of Battle benefit a Command brings is also on Belial and Sammael, so isn't neccessary if either of the characters are on the battlefield. The Libriarian only has a limited use, and Command Squads are best left at home.

If you do decide to use on of these characters, make sure he best matches the disposition of your army.

I've given some thought to the Librarian, and he has a use in termie armr, deepstriking. Hellfire hald the time will be AP 3 or less and ignores cover saves. Nasty especially when the librarian can be attached to a termie squad and dropped using a rteleport homer.

(And excuse the typos. IE is crashing any time I hit the backspace button now for some raeason).

It's worth mentioning that since all Dark Angels units are led by a Veteran Sergeant, the utility of the Company Master isn't that huge. 8 -> 10 is a huge jump, 9 -> 10 really isn't.

I find the Company Master useful for saving points though.

I agree with your analysis of Command Squads. The tiny size is really fatal to them. They make a poor bodyguard for a character because they have so few wounds. At the same time they're expensive and a priority target. I have a beautifully modeled Command Squad, but I don't think I could find a place for them in a competitive game.

I could see a possible role for them as a counter-charge unit in a shooty list - but an Assault Squad would probably be the better choice in that situation.

Well, I find the Company Commander with a decked out Command sqd was capable of taking down a Wolf Lord and his four body Guards while at the same time mopping up a unit of bloodclaws. So I use them quite a bit. The hard part is getting them into combat before they get shot to bits...

Asmodai...Typically if you combat squad the Tactical squad, you'll have the Vet sgt in a different squad than the heavy weapon, which is most in need of the higher leadership for target priority.

One thing worth mentioning about command squads is that they are not retinues, thus if they have transports, the IC may have to wait for them to show up (Drop pods come to mind...)

I updated the HQ section. I fixed some spelling and grammer as well as making things a little clearer based on the coment I recieved so far.

I've given some thought to the Librarian, and he has a use in termie armr, deepstriking. Hellfire hald the time will be AP 3 or less and ignores cover saves. Nasty especially when the librarian can be attached to a termie squad and dropped using a rteleport homer.

I agree, and that is the only reason why he has gone from Poor to Semi-competitive. I like the idea of him in a Deathwing Army because he really adds something to whatever Terminator squad he joins, not to mention if he joins a Terminator Squad with Beliel's standard. Run Beliel, a Terminator Librarian, and a five man squad with the standard and full lightning claws as your 6th terminator squad, and what them chew through the enemy. But you need the support of 25 terminators to do it. But I would cover that in my Pure Deathwing appendex.

It's worth mentioning that since all Dark Angels units are led by a Veteran Sergeant, the utility of the Company Master isn't that huge. 8 -> 10 is a huge jump, 9 -> 10 really isn't.

I find the Company Master useful for saving points though.

I agree with your analysis of Command Squads. The tiny size is really fatal to them. They make a poor bodyguard for a character because they have so few wounds. At the same time they're expensive and a priority target. I have a beautifully modeled Command Squad, but I don't think I could find a place for them in a competitive game.

I could see a possible role for them as a counter-charge unit in a shooty list - but an Assault Squad would probably be the better choice in that situation.

I clarified the fact that combat squads means half your squads don't have a sergeant. Which makes his benefit really appealing. I added the fact that he makes a good cheap HQ though.

I really dislike Command Squads. I tried to be as fair to them as possible in my tactica, but they really don't do much at their small size. If only they had the option of adding more bodies then they would be useful, kinda, because the idea of getting a Veteran squad that doesn't take a FOC chart would be appealing, but I can see why they didn't do that because suddenly Veterans would be less appealing themselves. One thing I forgot to mention was the Chaplian and Azreal banners. I will amend that tonight when I have my codex in front of me, but even those banners are too expensive for very little benefit.

Well, I find the Company Commander with a decked out Command sqd was capable of taking down a Wolf Lord and his four body Guards while at the same time mopping up a unit of bloodclaws. So I use them quite a bit. The hard part is getting them into combat before they get shot to bits...

I would say that if you are finding a use for them, good for you. I can't imagine, even in my local metagame, where they would be that useful. Getting them into combat is hard enough, but with Harlequins, Geenstealers, Orks, and Chaos running around. Their utility almost becomes zero.

Asmodai...Typically if you combat squad the Tactical squad, you'll have the Vet sgt in a different squad than the heavy weapon, which is most in need of the higher leadership for target priority.

One thing worth mentioning about command squads is that they are not retinues, thus if they have transports, the IC may have to wait for them to show up (Drop pods come to mind...)

Thanks for helping me clear that up.

I think i can sum up all the best dark angel builds rather it be pure deathwing/ravenwing, deathraven/multi-wing, battle comapny or combined arms with one word-
MECHANISED

If your playing standard battle company
-expect to run combat squads with razroback.

Deathwing-
With the weakening of the terminator squads the most effective builds include large doses of raiders and venerable dreads

Ravenwing-
Combat squaded units with attack bikes and a land speeder atttached. and some speeders in the support roll

Combinations of the above for deathraven and battle company combined arms lists.


HQs
With the loss of any real armory you really cannot make an HQ as good as the named ones.

As HQs go-
Sammael-in his speeder facing anything but necrons he is the single most useful HQ choice in a DA list for the points. no matter the army list.

Belial-really only useful (and mandatory in a pure DW list) when you run terminator heavy or you want a realatively cheep HQ

Azrael-for those pure battle comapny armies and people who like to run some vetrans he makes a nice add-on

Chaplain/interrigator chaplains-only really useful if you have a large assault element to your amry he can attach himself to.

Librarians-some people like them, expecially attached to termi squads but with lackluster psyker power options and the randomness of thier powers i prefer to avoid them(especially so when not in terminator armor).

Asmodai...Typically if you combat squad the Tactical squad, you'll have the Vet sgt in a different squad than the heavy weapon, which is most in need of the higher leadership for target priority.

I don't understand why you would do it this way, if you put the Vet Sgt and the heavy weapon together you have higher leadership for firing and you can use the other half of the squad to force leadership tests before firing on any of the juicy targets (they may be worth 50% anyway but you are still better off keeping the good stuff on the table getting the kills and I wouldn't be surprised if people overlooked the equal values)

I have only recently begun my venture into Dark Angels and personally am interested in running a multi-wing force, Making leadership a bit less of a deal for me since for me a master is a given (one of the two special ones).

Taking this unit is a standard list is probably not a good idea though as it would require you to take Sammael making the whole combination to expensive.

I don't get this, why isn't it just as viable to take your chaplain on a bike and attach him to a fast attack unit? Clearly one of us has missed something

I suppose this kinda falls under the assessment of Sammael, but if you have him (giving access to the Ravenwing Company Banner) I think it would be a great idea to have this in with your chaplain, it may provide a particularly juicy unit but if you can get close using cover with the banner then you can deepstrike deathwing terminators onto the bikes (thanks to the "free" teleport homers on bikes offering a powerful follow up charge after your bikes hit with 7 Chaplain attacks, 5 Sergeant attacks and another 20 from the rest of the squad, impressive for your numbers.

The reason for splitting up the Sarge and HW is so you can give him a fist and have him and the special weapon be useful.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:The reason for splitting up the Sarge and HW is so you can give him a fist and have him and the special weapon be useful.

Bingo
5 guys with the las cannon sit back and provide fire support while the other 5(with the sarge) hop in the razorback with a powerfist and a flamer or melta looking for something to assault.

You don't want to use a Razorback with a 10 man squad. If for any reason the squad starts off the board, the squad forgets how to use combat squads...One of the stupidest rules in the game.

skyth wrote:You don't want to use a Razorback with a 10 man squad. If for any reason the squad starts off the board, the squad forgets how to use combat squads...One of the stupidest rules in the game.

But RAW is "Units held in reserve cannot be split into combat squads and vice versa" doesn't that imply that if you chose to use them as a combat squad they CANNOT be forced to be held in reserve?

No, it means Combat Squads cannot be held in reserve.

In no way does that rule overrule the normal rules for Escalation.

I added a Summary sheet to the HQ section. I will have the Elites section posted this weekend.

Sorry to nitpick, but I think you ought to change your categorisation criteria. To lump everything that is not either outright terrible or a total no-brainer into "semi-competitive" detracts from the usefulness of the scheme. If you applied this scheme to the Eldar codex, you would conclude that Eldar have a craptastic HQ selection, since not a single one of the choices is a must-have (Eldrad + Avatar is great, but in a mech list?); while there may not be this problem with the DA dex, the principle holds. "Competitive" should simply mean "a viable choice if you plan to take to an army to a RTT environment with the desired outcome to win".

I have just started playing and collecting dark angels as well and am trying to build and paint a tornie army.

I understand why people think the vanilla marines are going to be changed (well most say nerfed) because this is vary different to the way they are constructed.

At 1500 points it is very hard to put a cohesive army together using this make up. Heavy weapons are much rarer (as you need more marines or more expsive marines to get them) and terminators can only have 1 heavy now (well i don't really understand that!!)

But saying that,
I really appreciate someone, anyone giving a proper look at this codex.

I have used a company master with a combi-plasma and powerfist with 5 veterans with storm shields and combi-plamsa's very effectively in a razorback. 8 plasma shots is always scary!!

I think good setups is propably as important as the actual description of the units. I'm going to try the bike chappy (as I mainly have a ravenwing force).

Keep it coming guys.
:-)

I second (or third...) that Sammael in Landspeeder is head and shoulders the best HQ choice for any DA force. Doubly so as the best DA builds are Mechanized and Sammael adds another vehicle at AV 14/14/10.

I am still trying to find THE build for DA. Overall I've done pretty well but the local game focuses on fun over cut-throat lists. Can't wait for the special HQ reviews and the rest of the tactica.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Sorry for the delay.

Unit Evaluation: Elites

Deathwing Terminator Squad
Utility: Competitive

Now a lot of people will not agree with my ranking, but hands down Terminators are still one of the better choices in the codex. With the ability to always deepstike, Powered CCW coming standard, and their move and shoot ability make them a great all around support unit for almost any force.

That said, Deathwing Terminators are still some of the most expensive in the game and will be a huge points investment. It is essential that you know their role within the scope of
your list.

What do we get for our expensive unit that makes us stand apart from the other terminators? Three things: Fearless, Deathwing Assault, and Mix and match weaponry. Let's discuss these in detail:

Fearless - By far our greatest advantage. We have one of the few fearless terminators in the game. It's a huge bonus knowing that your expensive Terminators are not running in the thick of battle, or if they take one to many shots. Knowing that you can send your guys into a combat and tie it up for a few turns is essential. The only downside to this is the fact that because the squad size is so low, it is easy to start getting outnumbered in a fight. So an understanding of this helps you better pick the target of this squad.

Deathwing Assault - This one is a little bit of a mixed bag. It is really a situational ability. Against some armies, this ability is stupid to use, against others a godsend. Generally there are a few rules to this ability which should be considered if you plan on using this it. First, only take odd numbered amount of squads because this will ensure that you have the most amount of first turn deepstrikers to points invested. Second, know your target. Getting the jump on a falcon before it had a chance to move is a good thing, dropping in front of a gun line is bad. Third and most important, make sure your opponent has no deepstrikers of his own that can threaten your squad. This is crucial because the last thing you want to have happen is to be caught with essentially your pants down as your terminators are outmaneuvered. So the decision to use this ability can quickly become game defining, so really put some thought into it. In standard list you probably won't take more than a single squad so in that case all your Terminators will have this ability. Just remember, the squad is too expensive to be a suicide unit and you don't want to send it out into the battlefield unsupported. If you are going to use the first turn deepstrike, better to deploy behind cover so you can get into assault quicker. I will discuss the ramifications of this rule in greater detail in the Pure Deathwing tactica as it relates to multiple Terminator squads.

Mix and Match Weaponry - The ability to equip any terminator with any assault terminator weaponry is huge, but can be a potential trap for new players. I am of the firm opinion that with either Lightning Claws or Thunderhammers, you should "go big or go home" meaning that if you are going to equip a few terminators with these weapons, then it is better to equip all if not most of them in that manner. Also remember that taking those weapons limit your shooting ability. They also lessen the utility of the squad, assault should be an option not a requirement for the Terminators. Having said that though there are two advantages worth noting. One, you should almost always give the Sergent lightning claws. Sacrificing 2 Storm bolter shots for an extra CC attack and re-roll to wounds is worth it in my opinion. Two, in a pure CC squad, we can stick a CML on one without sacrificing Assault capability. Not the best option to be sure, but it is a nice bonus.

Now lets look at the heavy weapons. You only get one, but the standard choice should always be the Assault Cannon. Terminators are about utility and nothing screams this better then the Assault Cannon. It has the ability to effect every unit in the game and do so efficiently. The Heavy Flamer is worthless. You have to risk a bad deepstrike to get close enough to use it, or you have to risk not being able to get into assault to use it. The CML is a slightly better option, especially if you find high str. weapons lacking in your list, but it still suffers from pushing the Terminators into a specific role. One in which the Terminators high price is best reserved for other units.

Equiping the Terminators:

Best load out:

Deathwing Terminator Squad w/ Lighting Claw armed Sergent, AC, and Chainfist

This is the best load out so far. You have a Sergent that is much better in assault. You have the utility of shooting and assaulting almost anything and best of all, if you put the AC and the Chainfist on the same guy, you have three ablative wounds but become slightly more susceptible to torrent of fire.

Alternatively, you can go all Assault but I wouldn't recommend it unless its your 5th or 6th Terminator unit. Combining a full Lighting Claw armed Deathwing Squad with Belial's banner makes an excellent assault unit if you have the back-up to do it, but I will discuss that more in the Pure Deathwing section.

Overall, as a counter assault / support unit. You really can't beat Terminators in even the most standard of lists. Just remember to know their role in the list and make wise choices on what you send them after. If you do decide to take a unit of them, they will be the most valuable unit in your list, but they will bring one of the best assault punches available to the list.


Dreadnoughts
Utility: Semi-competitive

Who doesn't love Dreadnoughts? They are by far one of the cooler units avalible to the Dark Angels.

That said, utilizing them is a very tricky manner. Like all units this is most definately a "know your role" unit. There are two best configurations and I will discuss them in detail:

The Fire Support Dreadnought:

Essentially this Dreadnoughts role is to support a gun line with move and shoot heavy weaponry. This is particularly important if you have already filled your heavy support choices. Equipping for this role is rather straight forward. The Missile Launcher is the obvious first choice. After that is is a quest to find the best support weapon. The Assault Cannon is free but to short ranged to match the Launcher. Multi-melta suffers from the same predicament and is rather light on shots. The Plasma Cannon is near useless because of the way that blast templates work and it's strength is not high enough for a single shot weapon against vehicles. The Autocannon on the other hand is a nice option, especially if you are tight on points, basically because it is twin-linked and free. A Dreadnought with that configuration can become a great light tank / skimmer hunter. But by far the best choice for this configuration is the Lascannon. Considering most lists will be light on our best anti-tank gun, fitting them on a support Dreadnought like this is an excellent option. Especially in a shooty list with a lot of other tanks. I would rank this as the best option to field a Dreadnought in.

The Combat Dreadnought;

The goal of this is simple, he needs to get into the face of the enemy and tie up units in combat or support units in combat. His low number of attacks make this role hard to accomplish. That is why I recommend the Drop Pod for this configuration. Allowing the Dreadnought to deploy almost anywhere he wants and shoot up a troublesome squad has great use, especially if your going Drop Pod heavy. Because of this the best two weapons are Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer. You want to maximize the damage done by shooting and you want to really get in the face of whatever you encounter.

Outside of these configurations is the Venerable option. I would only use it if you need to fill points in your list. It's a great upgrade and will come in handy on more then one occasion, but because most DA lists are so tight on points most of the time, this upgrade is really a conditional affair.

Utilizing the Dreadnought will be tough, so really know your role. Dreadnought by it's nature is a support unit. Don't be to aggressive with it because tanks are fragile. And always support it, either with an assault unit close behind, or another tank to divided shots going at it.


Company Veterans Squad
Utility: Competitive

This is by far one of the best units in the entire codex. Here is why:

Variable Squad Size - The only unit in the codex that can do this, meaning that you are sure to be able to take just the right number to use. Also it allows you to capitalize scoring status by taking even numbered units.

Two attacks base - Is huge, and well worth the additional points you spend on them. It makes them excellent at not only giving charges but receiving them as well.

Multiple weapon configurations - They are also by for the most fluid unit in the codex, with an ability to be equiped to suit any need.

The best load outs:

Suicide Drop - This involves a 6 man unit in a drop pod with multiple Combi-weapons. Having a unit be able to drop anywhere and put multiple Meltagun or Plasmangun shots on an enemy is a rather good unit. it is a suicide squad though so really know the target you want to send them after. If they take out a Leman Russ or a Falcon, they have more then paid for themselves.

Combat Unit - This is utilizing their two attacks to the best. Use in units of 8 or 10 and take multple CCW. Best if you attach a character (especially Azreal as suddenly they all get an Invulnerable Save), This is a weaker option as getting them into CC will be hard.

6-man Las/Plas squad - It may be tempting, but you are wasting an elite slot of an expensive heavy weapon. May have it's use but buyer beware.

There should also be noted that the squad has access to combat squads special rule. Which could be interesting, you could have five shooty Veterans and 5 Assaulty Veterans in the same elites slots. Though I wouldn't find that appealing because of the point cost involved.

Overall, Veterans are an extremely good unit than can be easily customized to fit any battlefield role you give them.

Scouts
Utility: Semi-competitive

Scouts fall into the deadly "decent unit, bad FOC spot" category. The number one thing you are going to consider with this unit is "Why should I take them in lieu of Veterans, Dreadnoughts, and Terminators". That competition really makes fielding scouts a more conscience decision.

Besides that though they really aren't that bad. Thier biggest advantage is their cost. They are one of the cheapest units in the codex and in a codex where most units cost 200+ points, that can be an advantage. They also come with Infiltration and Move through Cover, which means they can be a quick cheap scoring unit to grab objectives. Just don't expect them holding them for long. My personal preference is to not consider Infiltration that much of an advantage, namely because it isn't guaranteed.

There is no real perfect way to field scouts. Because of their extreme flexibility, it can be a trap to mix and match yourself into an ineffective unit. So know their role you wish them to play in your armylist. Here are a few examples:

Scouts w/ Bolters and a Heavy Weapon:
Best for fire support in a more shooty list. They wouldn't be as good as Lascannon Armed Tacticals or Missile Launcher Devastators, but their ability to navigate cover and infiltrate can help you put a heavy weapon in positions that wouldn't normally be available to you. It's a little risky, and isn't the best choice.

Scouts w/ CCW and Powerfist
Probably the cheapest CC support you can put into your army. With Move through Cover, you can even deploy them in places that you wouldn't normally put counter assault into. Don't expect them to last long though, but they can provide a decent support for another CC unit forcing what ever they gang up on to divide their attacks.

Scouts w/ Shotguns
Shotguns are my favorite weapon on these guys, as they give you all the advantages of Bolters at close range but none of the drawbacks. This unit can become extremely useful in a drop pod army as a cheap alternative to Vets or Assault Marines.

Overall, Scouts are a tricky unit to utilized, but with a little skill you can get some use out of them. Unfortunately other elites will still take preference in list building. If only they where troops....

Tech marine is giving me some trouble, so I would love to hear you guy's opinion, I will post the tech marine and Troops by the end of the weekend.

Just a few things that I've discovered playing the current dex.

Synergy between Ravenwing and Deathwing is obvious enough. Its great for catching people that are unaware of the ravenwing 'scouting'. Its not something you should count on however. I've played a majority of my games with a Squadron of 7 bikers split into combat squads. Vet with powerfist and two bikers, 3 bikers w/two meltaguns, and a MM attack bike. Between these three units, I'll scout up somewhere where it seems there's an opportunity, and deepstrike the terminator squad on turn 1.

Now, when I do this, I personally run a Librarian in the terminator squad. Between the 12" scout move off of the line, 6" range for the teleport homers, size of the terminator bases, and length of the flamer template, it hasnt been that difficult for me to set up really nice Hellfire targets in many games. I wouldnt be surprised if Heavy Flamers werent as useless as Mahu pointed out as above. I still opt for the Assault cannon though, so I wont argue.

I normally do this on a flank or somewhere where the terminator can possibly survive the imminant counterattack. Keep in mind, that the bikers that "marked the spot" should Charge with the Veteran's combat squad, tying up a unit from counterattacking the terminators. The other two squads can either lend more fire support to the terminators or attack vehicles threatening them.

This is a really nice tactic, but its something that wont work against someone who knows you can do it. Its great fun when it works though. Its LOTS of points worth of troopers hitting the exact same weak spot on an enemy line and if you're careful, your terminators can not only survive, but possibly turn a flank all by themselves against some enemies. I find my entire army moving to support the terminators frequently in an attempt to keep them alive and killing.

Duoing 100 pt predator destructors is also great. My current list is sporting two of them, a landraider, and the Master of the Ravenwing. This is some pretty heavy armour that is hard to shut down. Predators spitting out 10 shots a turn...for the first time since ive ever really used them, they really seem to earn their name now what with the way they hunt on the move blasting any light armoured troopers in their way. These tanks on the move can throw out so much lead that the enemy simply HAS to do something about them.

Azrael is one of the mightiest space marine heroes to come along in a long while. The last time I used him he was able to take out a tyranid Hive tyrant in one turn of hand to hand combat. Its possible to get him up to 7 attacks on the charge with his str 6 Master Crafted Power weapon. He's effectively a daemon prince for us. Dont forget that he has 4 wounds, this is a big deal and really surprises opponent who think that they just killed him. He can still be instantly killed however, make sure you use creative close combat positioning and his huge number of attacks to kill off any hidden fists before they can attack him.

Mahu I cannot wait for your Deathwing Terminator tactica. I run 32 Termies + 2 Whirlwinds and cannot wait to see what you have in store.

Outside of these configurations is the Venerable option. I would only use it if you need to fill points in your list. It's a great upgrade and will come in handy on more then one occasion, but because most DA lists are so tight on points most of the time, this upgrade is really a conditional affair.

Sorry to have to disagree with you in the extreme. it is NOT optional. it is worth every point you spend.
as somebody who runs both a deathwing(since 3rd) and a deathraven force. i have always used dreads. back before the new dex i always had one venerable, now they all are.
I will be so bold as to say that a dark angels player should not even place a dread on the table unless it is venerable. without it they are to vulnerable, with it they become of of the best units in a DA army(especialy in a pure DW force).

Just a quick question.

What is the point of the plasma pistol, I just don't see any point to it at the moment.

I have a unit of 5 veterans with combat shields (or storm shields) to run with a company master in a razorback. I've put 3 plasma pistols in the unit (because in HBMC's and our revisited rules they count a power weapons) but are they a complete point sink for a normal game of 40k or am i missing something?

Mahu - Loved the second installment, really inspiring me to actually paint up my stuff!

Ozy - Do you ever find a use for Sammael in the jetbike (IE the plasma cannon) or does AV14 moving fast tend to win out all of the time.

Well, the model is really, really cool....

I can see if you are going for a cc oriented Ravenwing force as he can fight in cc and is a tough mother with his adamantium mantle and iron halo. So maybe against Tau or IG I'd go for the jetbike mounted version. Overall, I don't see what advantage he has over the landspeeder version as he's not that good in cc.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Indeed,
the model is the sole reason why I bought him!!

I think I'll at least try him before I make him just a bench warmer, but for tornies I think your right that the landspeeder version is just a better all rounder (well, except against cheating eldar!!!)

Thanks Ozy

Mahu wrote:

Unit Evaluation: Elites

Deathwing Terminator Squad
Utility: Competitive

Now a lot of people will not agree with my ranking, but hands down Terminators are still one of the better choices in the codex. With the ability to always deepstike, Powered CCW coming standard, and their move and shoot ability make them a great all around support unit for almost any force.

That said, Deathwing Terminators are still some of the most expensive in the game and will be a huge points investment. It is essential that you know their role within the scope of
your list.

Agreed. I dont agree with the ranking, but everything else I feel is true.

Mahu wrote:What do we get for our expensive unit that makes us stand apart from the other terminators? Three things: Fearless, Deathwing Assault, and Mix and match weaponry. Let's discuss these in detail:

Fearless - By far our greatest advantage. We have one of the few fearless terminators in the game. It's a huge bonus knowing that your expensive Terminators are not running in the thick of battle, or if they take one to many shots. Knowing that you can send your guys into a combat and tie it up for a few turns is essential. The only downside to this is the fact that because the squad size is so low, it is easy to start getting outnumbered in a fight. So an understanding of this helps you better pick the target of this squad.

I feel it is a drawback actually. A drawback that you pay for. ATSKNF is a far stronger utility than is fearless. Without the outnumbering drawback. But you did atleast acknowledge that it does have a drawback. Many who review DW look upon fearless as if it just gave birth to baby Jesus, Mohammed, and Buddha all in the same sitting.

Mahu wrote:Deathwing Assault - This one is a little bit of a mixed bag. It is really a situational ability. Against some armies, this ability is stupid to use, against others a godsend. Generally there are a few rules to this ability which should be considered if you plan on using this it. First, only take odd numbered amount of squads because this will ensure that you have the most amount of first turn deepstrikers to points invested. Second, know your target. Getting the jump on a falcon before it had a chance to move is a good thing, dropping in front of a gun line is bad. Third and most important, make sure your opponent has no deepstrikers of his own that can threaten your squad. This is crucial because the last thing you want to have happen is to be caught with essentially your pants down as your terminators are outmaneuvered. So the decision to use this ability can quickly become game defining, so really put some thought into it. In standard list you probably won't take more than a single squad so in that case all your Terminators will have this ability. Just remember, the squad is too expensive to be a suicide unit and you don't want to send it out into the battlefield unsupported. If you are going to use the first turn deepstrike, better to deploy behind cover so you can get into assault quicker. I will discuss the ramifications of this rule in greater detail in the Pure Deathwing tactica as it relates to multiple Terminator squads.

I completely agree here. Well said.

Mahu wrote:Mix and Match Weaponry - The ability to equip any terminator with any assault terminator weaponry is huge, but can be a potential trap for new players. I am of the firm opinion that with either Lightning Claws or Thunderhammers, you should "go big or go home" meaning that if you are going to equip a few terminators with these weapons, then it is better to equip all if not most of them in that manner. Also remember that taking those weapons limit your shooting ability. They also lessen the utility of the squad, assault should be an option not a requirement for the Terminators. Having said that though there are two advantages worth noting. One, you should almost always give the Sergent lightning claws. Sacrificing 2 Storm bolter shots for an extra CC attack and re-roll to wounds is worth it in my opinion. Two, in a pure CC squad, we can stick a CML on one without sacrificing Assault capability. Not the best option to be sure, but it is a nice bonus.

I disagree. Ranged terminators are always far stronger than their CC counterparts. I think if youre going to equip any termies with claws or hammers that it should be no more than 2 per squad. The temtation to goo all out and equip everyone with CC is quite alluring, but should be resisted. ( *slight digression* The lack of a second heavy really hinders the effectiveness of mix and match. But then again, I can see why they didnt allow a second heavy in DW, as everyone wanted mix and match, but in order to do so, it would make assault cannons WAYYYY too powerful. Why take Stormbolters at all when you can just use 2 AC's and the rest bundled with LC's? Nasty.)
I still feel that CC termies are really at a loss, ultimately. The reroll for wounding from the powerweapon LC's is great, but shooting is really where termies excel. Giving them all CC's is just giving a good opponent easy VP's.

The mantra of Termies is:
"Shoot until you can assault, but never be so good in assault as you're left stranded in the open"

LC's are actually TOO GOOD at what they do. You assault something...and everything in the way is dust. Then you're left stranded in the open. Able to do nothing except look pretty for all those guns as they aim their way.

Mahu wrote:Now lets look at the heavy weapons. You only get one, but the standard choice should always be the Assault Cannon. Terminators are about utility and nothing screams this better then the Assault Cannon. It has the ability to effect every unit in the game and do so efficiently. The Heavy Flamer is worthless. You have to risk a bad deepstrike to get close enough to use it, or you have to risk not being able to get into assault to use it. The CML is a slightly better option, especially if you find high str. weapons lacking in your list, but it still suffers from pushing the Terminators into a specific role. One in which the Terminators high price is best reserved for other units.

Again, Completely agree with one exception. Heavy flamers aren't that bad, though they are situational. As in, only acceptable when used in an urban environ.

Mahu wrote:Overall, as a counter assault / support unit. You really can't beat Terminators in even the most standard of lists. Just remember to know their role in the list and make wise choices on what you send them after. If you do decide to take a unit of them, they will be the most valuable unit in your list, but they will bring one of the best assault punches available to the list.

Yeah, what he said!

Its a good article, Mahu. I do have a chip on my shoulder against the newest incarnation of DA, but you're taking a lemon and trying to make chocolate pudding. I can respect a guy for that.

I disagree. Ranged terminators are always far stronger than their CC counterparts. I think if youre going to equip any termies with claws or hammers that it should be no more than 2 per squad. The temtation to goo all out and equip everyone with CC is quite alluring, but should be resisted. ( *slight digression* The lack of a second heavy really hinders the effectiveness of mix and match. But then again, I can see why they didnt allow a second heavy in DW, as everyone wanted mix and match, but in order to do so, it would make assault cannons WAYYYY too powerful. Why take Stormbolters at all when you can just use 2 AC's and the rest bundled with LC's? Nasty.)
I still feel that CC termies are really at a loss, ultimately. The reroll for wounding from the powerweapon LC's is great, but shooting is really where termies excel. Giving them all CC's is just giving a good opponent easy VP's.

The only way to run them and make the work is if you have a couple land raiders in the heavy slots to transport them to the CC and provide the fire support they no longer have. which is how i run my CC termies.

The problem with DW now is that a DW terminator squad no matter how you equip it is at a loss because is to undergunned and understengthed for what it has to face 99% of the time. if they had made the assault cannon a 0-1 for the squad while still allowing 2 heavy weapons it would have given them at least a little extra firepower to even the odds and make the flamer or cyclone more appealing options.

I think the biggest advantage of Deathwing Assault is for the surprise factor. Most people don't realize you can do it and it can be a nasty surprise to IG, Tau, Eldar or other forces that won't necessarily be able to deal with a unit of Terminators dropping behind their lines. They may be expensive, but the disruption effect can throw your opponents battle plans completely off.

It can also be used to bolster what looked like a weak flank.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I've used DWA a few times and it really isn't as advantagous as you think, especially in a pure DW force.
sure it gets half your army's terminators get to come on the table turn 1....but the down side is....it gets only half(rounded up) of your terminator squads on the table in turn 1.

DW operates as a precision, focused strike force. exposing only half your army to the enemy who has thier full army on the table is generally suicidal. you can shoot shoot of course but a bad round of shooting means there will be even more return fire. which is compounded if you have bad reserve rolls in turn 2. the your army gets taken apart piece-meal.


The only real advantage i can see from it is if you have a heavy terrain board(say COD) and you can hide them, then your more likely to get more of your army on the table faster.

Ozymandias wrote:I think the biggest advantage of Deathwing Assault is for the surprise factor. Most people don't realize you can do it and it can be a nasty surprise to IG, Tau, Eldar or other forces that won't necessarily be able to deal with a unit of Terminators dropping behind their lines. They may be expensive, but the disruption effect can throw your opponents battle plans completely off.

It can also be used to bolster what looked like a weak flank.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

So you don't tell them about it? Or if they ask you about your
list you don't mention it?

I'm not talking about guys who pretend like they know what's
coming but really don't, but what about the guy across the table
who says, "Deathwing? Oh, what do they do?"