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In leaked rules pdf it states that friendly and enemy troops block los.

However the rule also states that in order to block los the front troops must partially obscure the back troops from the point of view of the shooting troops.

Here is my question. How confidant are you guys about the reliability of screening units? That is to say what percent of enemies are likely to position them selfs high?

If you want to be screened won't this mean bunching your back troops right up behind the screening ones to be sure they are 'obscured'?

Let me know how you think screening will workout for your armies or has worked back in the 3rd edition days.

Well, you have to be able to completely see the models, 100% clear over the intervening models. As long as the units are fairly close to each other that's a pretty hard task to accomplish unless the firing models are really tall or standing on something fairly high.

Obviously its a 'feel' that we'll have to develop but I feel confident that within a couple of games I'll have a pretty good idea about the limitations of my models.


I would say this isn't anything like 3rd edition screenig for a couple of reasons:

1) friendly models block LOS now (a HUGE difference).
2) models no longer block LOS up to twice their height.


Also, I'm very interested to see how the screening rules end up in the final version of the rules. I'm hopeful there will be some small tweaks to make it a bit more intuitive.

Quite aside from the rules it seems kind of odd to base lines of sight on the real lines of sight between models, but then allow casualties to be taken from anywhere in the unit because what it represents is always moving around. I suppose it works, but it just seems like one of the odder Warhammer rationalizations, trying to square what's on the board with what's in people's imaginations.

One thing I'm curious about are crisis suits. I don't think the few exceptions in the screening rules apply to them, so I think they are going to hide behind their comrades again like in 3rd edition.
FOR THE GREATER GOOD

Well, they're not Monstrous Creatures and they're not Vehicles, so pending changes it seems that they can be screened. I'm more curious about stuff that currently fiddles with the target priority rules like Stealth Team, if memory does not fail me...

Nurglitch wrote:Well, they're not Monstrous Creatures and they're not Vehicles, so pending changes it seems that they can be screened. I'm more curious about stuff that currently fiddles with the target priority rules like Stealth Team, if memory does not fail me...

That will be interesting. Currently the rules say that models block line of sight so it doesn't matter if they have special sight rules like stealth suits or harliquins. Unless the rules get updated or the wording is changed, these units will become uber screens.

What about Necron Destroyers, can they be screened? They hover above the troops, after all.

How about swarms, can they screen infantry models?

I think this ends up being one of those "You can use modeling to your advantage" things. If you can draw ling of sight over models to other models you can fire on them. So if you have enemy troops shooting into your necron army and there are scarabs followed by warriors followed by destroyers, the enemy should be able to shoot whatever he wants since the scarabs are smaller than the warriors and the warriors are smaller than the destoyers (if they are on flight bases). I think that the back rows of models will get cover saves because of the ones in front partialy obscuring them though.

This is going to kill imperial guard gunlines isn't it?

Necron Destroyers and Scarabs aren't Vehicles or Monstrous Creatures, so they would screen each other.

I hate seeing people penalized for modeling.
"I took the time and effort to modelize my death company in mid air." "well sorry bro no I have clear line of site at them."
Size 1 2 3 was quick and dirty enough to get the job done. Anything to do with "the model's line of sight" becomes cantankerous time consuming a rewards people who model defilers to be on a medium sized base.

as ratbarf said, isnt this going to make it impossible to play armies with large numbers of troops that need to see and shoot like guard or shooty orks?
i dont know about anyone else but i know that i hate model to model line of site as it promotes ambiguity. "i can see between those 2 guys, this guy can see between them, this guy can see between him and him. 15 minutes later i can finally roll some dice before moving to the next unit, wash and repeat. god forbid any disagreements arise.

i like whole units blocking regardless of where the models are in the unit.

Ratbarf wrote:This is going to kill imperial guard gunlines isn't it?

Why would it kill gunline?
if anything it makes it easier to shield your command squad. Also now you can use a LR to claim 4+ saves behind it.

Why would it kill gunline? Cause the 200+ all troop IG armies will start to block LOS to each other without some elevated terrain (which isn't a garauntee) or without throwing stuff in reserve.

I'm thinking though that light infantry or jungle fighters would be worth considering. Make a solid gunline that won't block each other, then throw in some flankers to sprint at objectives later in the game.

You just need to change your armies a bit. Having 6-10 vehicles and 100 guardsmen will be much more playable.

gdurant wrote:I hate seeing people penalized for modeling.
"I took the time and effort to modelize my death company in mid air." "well sorry bro no I have clear line of site at them."
Size 1 2 3 was quick and dirty enough to get the job done. Anything to do with "the model's line of sight" becomes cantankerous time consuming a rewards people who model defilers to be on a medium sized base.

I would prefer to take the base as the targetable part. Can you see the whole base of at least one model in the units from your firing posdition.

It is a swings and roundabouts issue, some of my Crisis suits are modelled in leaping pose, they are not far off the ground but are mounted on wire, and could be higher up if I wanted. Ok you could then shoot them more easily, but they have jetpacks to get behind terrain to stop that, the extra height meanwhile enables them to see your over troops.

I hate such gamesmanship myself and will keep my crisis teams hovering where they are.

winterman wrote:Why would it kill gunline? Cause the 200+ all troop IG armies will start to block LOS to each other without some elevated terrain (which isn't a garauntee) or without throwing stuff in reserve.

I'm thinking though that light infantry or jungle fighters would be worth considering. Make a solid gunline that won't block each other, then throw in some flankers to sprint at objectives later in the game.

since gunline IG armies don't rely on lasguns, only the lascannon has to be visible. Nake deployment a bit more tedious but I think things are essentially the same.

"A bit more tedious" seems to be par for the course with these rules.

Yes but this is going to kill the guy at my store who plays with a full guard troop complement. Pretty much he relies on 360 guardsmen rapid firing flashlights. That will totally suck cause he spent nearly a thousand bucks on that and its no longer viable...

On another note this will really help small number armies. Seeing as when they advance they only have to worry about the first line of bolters and what-not. They can now take them apart peice by peice a lot easier now.

I'm thinking we might see a lot more multi-level terrain, even on non-cityfight boards.

change is inevitable, and if the core mechanics change so will all the ways armies are played. It's happened with every codex release as well, guess you have to just suck it up.

I just see people with MEQ armies throwing a cheap body shield in front of god awful melee troops and smashing into each other in the middle of the board. It'll be like Fantasy, but with round bases and guns that are just for show...

The stupid meta-stuff that will go on is going to make the new screening rules a little painful to live with.

For example, Guard might start using cheapo infantry squads as a sort of "camera shutter" to their heavy weapon squads. They screen the heavies during the opponent's turn, then move aside to allow the guys behind them to shoot. Etc.

Sorta ridiculous.

Phryxis wrote:The stupid meta-stuff that will go on is going to make the new screening rules a little painful to live with.

For example, Guard might start using cheapo infantry squads as a sort of "camera shutter" to their heavy weapon squads. They screen the heavies during the opponent's turn, then move aside to allow the guys behind them to shoot. Etc.

Sorta ridiculous.

Wel, considering they can only move D6" during the shooting phase, I don't see this as being a particularly effective tactic.

Yes, but if your lascannon and plasmagun are next to each other and you move only 2" to allow them to see something, your odds are good that you'll be able to move back into position to cover for it.

I hope GW notices this sort of thing, moving aside then running back into place. Though I bet in their minds "but then they lose the opportunity to shoot with the unit in front, so it's balanced". Ok, yes. The 60-point no-upgrade unit of 10 guardsmen didn't get to shoot in order to enable the las/plas to get my terminator squad with no chance of retaliation. Yeah, I guess that's balanced.

usernamesareannoying wrote:as ratbarf said, isnt this going to make it impossible to play armies with large numbers of troops that need to see and shoot like guard or shooty orks?
i dont know about anyone else but i know that i hate model to model line of site as it promotes ambiguity. "i can see between those 2 guys, this guy can see between them, this guy can see between him and him. 15 minutes later i can finally roll some dice before moving to the next unit, wash and repeat. god forbid any disagreements arise.

i like whole units blocking regardless of where the models are in the unit.

The thing is that the squad blocks line of sight, not so much the models. The important thing though is that they only block it up to their height so if taller models are behind them, you can shoot over them. That combined with the "if it can hit one guy in your squad, I can hit them all" rules for casualty removal and this whole process takes a lot less time.

thanks phoenix.
im one of the few that cant actually find the pdf so im just getting nervous off of the tidbits a read here and there.

Using 1" of movement, a double screen of conscripts, and the wizardry of the internet. Clicky the picture for the pew pew animation.

Single screen of conscripts could give you significantly more angle on your shots, and the tail of the formation can just wrap around behind a tank somewhere.

cool idea and the 5th ed rules are written vaugly on this issue but I think they imply that you can not shoot though the gaps in a screening unit. The conscripts have to get right out of the way for the las plas to fire not just open gaps.