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Fresh from our Gastonia experiences: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/208847.page

We are heading to a tournament up in Tenessee, at Dicehead, on Saturday. It'll be me, A and B at least, with a possible appearance by D. It's a 2k tourney.

Most like I'll be bringing my Decepticrons (same army I brought to Murfreesboro) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/208154.page

A will be bringing either his Destroyer Wing or his famous Nidzilla list, and B is, I think, bringing the static shooty Tau list again.

I love 2k games, should be a grand time!

Sorry I won't make it as I have to work this Saturday. Hope Team ATL keeps up the strong tradition of jack assery. C out.

Feh "Work". B had a tutoring session, and he told them he had a family emergency.

Hey, 40K, which store are you playing out of? I live in Marietta, myself. I've been to a number of Dicehead events, and they're pretty good. If I didn't already have plans involving sexy girls and dancing, I'd probably have gone this weekend.

40kenthusiast wrote:Feh "Work". B had a tutoring session, and he told them he had a family emergency.

B hasn't been laid up for 5 months plus i have to save my mojo up for the challenge that was issued. Feel like doing a battle report of that next week?

Saldiven: I play out of the Gaming Pit on Wednesdays and the War Room on Thursdays, both in upper ATL/Norcross. Good gaming places, if not as big as Dicehead.

UG: Man, you vs. R.S.? His list has been getting meaner, but its still a rock vs. paper scenario. I bet you roll him, but I'll batrep it if it's exciting.

The Venue:

The tournament took place at Dicehead, which had sufficient tables for all participants. In addition there was 20% off GW merch, and generous prize support.

The Missions:

The missions were straight up Rogue Trader missions.

The Field:

2 Necrons
1 Eldar
2 Nids
1 Dark Eldar
2 Chaos Space Marines
1 Daemonhunters
1 Imperial Guard
2 Space Marines
1 Orks

As there was an odd number of participants the tourney director played a Ringer army, which was Space Marines.

The Scoring:

15 for a win, 10 for a draw, 5 for a loss, with +3 in bonuses and -2 in penalties possible. In addition, there are a LOT of soft scores. You get sportsmanship from each opponent, comp from each opponent, sportsmanship from the store, comp from the store, paint from the store, best opponent votes and best painted votes.

Our lists, 2000 points:

Me:

Decepticrons
Deceiver
10 warriors
11 warriors
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
8 Immortals
8 Immortals
8 Immortals
1 Heavy Destroyer
1 Heavy Destroyer
1 Heavy Destroyer

A:
Big Bugs
Flying Tyrant w/twin devourers
Walker tyrant w/venom cannon/strangler
2 Dakkafexes
2 Sniperfexes
3 Zoeys w/scream, blast
1 Lictor
6 sets of Stealers w/improved carapace

B:
Necron Air Force (borrowed from A)
Deceiver
10 warriors
10 warriors
5 Destroyers
5 Destroyers
5 Destroyers
3 Heavy Destroyers
3 Heavy Destroyers
3 Heavy Destroyers

D:
Grey knights, same list as last time, still didn't get the details

E:
Orks, 1 unit Lootas, 1 unit Kommandos w/Snikrot, 1 unit Stormboys, 2 Trukk boy units, lotsa walking Boys, Biker Boss, some skorchas, Big Mek w/SAG...he's kind of got a smorgasbord of the competitive Ork choices, but I didn't get his list

Game 1:

The Mission: Quarters deployment, VP's, Night Fight on round 4 on roll of 4+, 5 on 3+ or 6 on 2+. Players set up terrain

My opponent:

Nurgle Chaos (all squads 7 strong):
2 units plague marines in Rhinos
1 unit havocs (meltas) in rhino w/Mark of Nurgle
1 unit Possessed (no Mark) in Rhino
1 Defiler
1 Land Raider w/unit of Terminators inside
Lord in Terminator armor (in Land Raider)
Sorcerer w/Nurgle power on bike.
1 Chaos Dreadnaught w/CCW's

My assessment:
His list has no real long range threat, and relies on vehicles to cross the board, so he's dead in the water vs. mine, but it's not an atrocious list against a fellow assault list. Plague Marines are solid, Possessed do alright from a Rhino, and he's got good hammer units to carry the battle. If the enemy is a gunline and he can creep up behind territory, of if they are a fellow assault list he can do alright. He'd be DOA vs. Mech Eldar or Nidzilla though.

The Game:
He rushes forward, I blow up all his vehicles, his rush slows down, I back up, Deceiver goes in and kills everything. He's got some long long ways of measuring 6 inches so he gets his power weapon possessed in close combat, but the Necrons just mob them and that's it. The guy is pleasant throughout, but is stuck in 3rd edition rules, trying to assault out of rhinos and have Terminators shoot one unit and assault another. I let him go back and have do-overs whenever the rules stuff trips him up, we have a good game.

A's game:
A is up against Ultramarines w/Whirlwinds and good anti-nid stuff, and A's 2+ save flying tyrant goes down in the first round. Guy makes a good game of it, but ultimately the stealers get there and it's game over. A gets dinged on sportsmanship despite a civil game.

B's game:
B proves that he can lose with any list, as he goes up against a Nidzilla list with the Necron Air Force and gets smoked. I mean, the little bugs can never reach the jetbikes...is he losing the shooting war at 36 with his whole army vs. the Heavy Fexes and Flying Tyrant? Maybe he had atrocious morale rolls.

D's game:
D's Grey Knights get beat up by an Iron Hands list, that is actually quite strong. Aside from it's fluffy 6 Venerable Dreads (which aren't atrocious) it's built competitively with lots of long range shooting in 6 man las/plas and the like.

E's game: The Orks swarm over a Nurgle army, just powerklaw them to death.

Game 2:

The Mission: The mission is that wretched one, where you start with just your compulsories on the board and the deployment zone is 10" from the board's opposing corners. You get +1 to bring your reserves in.

My Opponent:

Nurgle Chaos

4 squads of 7 plague marines w/ a variety of heavy weapons
1 squad of 7 chosen with Flamers and the Icon of Nurgle
1 squad of 7 chosen with Meltas and the Icon of Nurgle
1 Chaos Dreadnaught with twin linked lascannon
1 Daemon prince w/Wings, Mark of Nurgle and Wind of Chaos
1 unit of 7 lesser daemons
Typhus

My assessment: It's a fluffy list. Because of the plague marine's resiliency it is aciddently able to fight it's way out of a paper bag, but I have a hard time imaging a competitive list it could beat on a really good day. On the other hand, it looks cool (though not as cool as the last Nurgle list I played) and I'm a sucker for a good bit of fluff. I guess this is Typhuc's private posse? Anyway, it's weakness is exacerbated by the ridiculous nature of the mission.

The game:
It's over before it starts. After three rounds of rolling armor saves and feel no pain's he gives up and goes to complain to the judges about the mission. I sympathize with his view of the mission (which totally messes with his army, as infantry are not balanced for walking on the dang board, that's why in the book Escalation doesn't affect infantry) but I think he was doomed to lose to just about anyone on just about any mission. If you bring this list you shouldn't expect to win.


A's game:
A's opponent is a Dark Eldar list, intelligently played and well constructed. His foe wins the roll and makes A go first, and then when A trudges on the board the DE skimmers come in and light the big bugs up. With the big bugs starting off the board and walking forward they will never get in range to fire (esp. as the DE have that wargear that takes 6" off your range vs. their skimmers), while the DE can fire with impunity. A loses

B's game:
B's last, so he plays the ringer list (Space Marines) and defeats them.

D's game:
D plays the Imperial Guard list and is able to pull out a win (Go Grey Knights!). His Lance Strike could never hit what it aimed at, but it scattered and killed a sniper, and later landed on the combat between the Ogryns (wtf? Ogryns?) and his Grey Knights, killing everybody. Their game went really long, but in the end D got a win.

E's game:
E played an odd Eldar list, with 3 Wraithlords, howling banshees dire avengers and swooping hawks. He buried it in Orks. Although it was tight for a while, as his whole rush had to go through a choke point. Snikrot helped him out with a rear assault at just the right moment and the Orks hit hand to hand.

Game 3:

Long table edge, VP's, suicide squads

My opponent:
Dark Eldar Air Force (the one who just played A)

I can't remember the precise dimensions of this list, but there were 3 ravagers, several wych units, some killer HQ's leading warrior squads and other usual stuff. Lots of Raiders and warrior squad with Dark Lances. Most of the skimmers had the Nightshields (-6" things). I thought it looked like a killer list, and he had 2 massacres coming into this match.

The game:

We did the "move the terrain" silliness which the mission demanded, with him putting them in the middle to provide LOS blocking and me putting them on the edges for cover saves. He denied a flank, and I did the same, so we were both basically clustered up in the left 2 and a half feet of the board, facing off. His wyches all got 12" charge.

I won the roll to go first.

My army moved forward and fired until our guass barrels ran metaphorcially dry. I think I put down 7 skimmers in the one round. You had guys falling out of their vehicles and then having to take armor saves vs. other vehicles exploding. I inflicted rougly 800 points of damage in one round of shooting.

He responded with ferocious shooting of his own, putting down 5 Destroyers and 4 Immortals with less than half his army firing (due to deaths, pinning and LOS issues from wrecks). Then followed it up with some insanely long range charging, totally annihilating a squad of immortals and a squad of Destroyers, but failing to massacre to anyone else.

My army fired at one of his assault squads at short range, then bayonetted them, while the Deceiver rushed his HQ unit. Else where my largely undamaged army shot down the remnants of his army.

The Dark Eldar Lord was a really tough guy, going at a super high initiative and weapon skill, rerolling misses and hitting with a strength 6 power weapon (+1 drugs, +1 for big sword, +1 for capturing some guys earlier...didn't have the heart to mention you can't capture Necrons) and defending with a 2+ invulnerable save. Deceiver squished him as usual, but that's a heck of an HQ. Wonder how many points you spent for a guy like that, and whether you can get one on a jetbike? Against marines or the like that would be devastating.

The star god's devouring of his assault force brought the game to a close, and at the end of turn 3 he had 6 retreating guys, a Ravager and a Raider with no weapons. I was very proud of my army in that game, but I think it was made possible by a few errors on his part. I don't think he should have started his shooting infantry in the raiders, and I don't think he should have bunched up in a corner, when spreading out would have made his nightshields more effective. He was a great guy, and I had a good time in this game, much more fun than most such slaughters.

A's game:
A got the Iron Hands, and the game was really closely contested. A was a bit hehind at the end, but the 300 VP's from having his suicide squad dead and the other guy's alive let him squeak to a victory.

B's game: B played D and drew...coming within 1 model of phasing out vs. noncompetitive Grey Knights.

D's game: D played B and drew, nearly phasing him out. I'm impressed by doing this well vs. that army with his army.

E's game: E played Nids and drew the game. His description is further down in the thread but basically, he was losing but turned it around with a boxcars blast from the SAG on the last round.

Final results for our guys
E won the tourney overall
A won second place overall
D won the best painted (as usual)
I was like 8th overall, but had the most battle points.

As a whole the tourney was a lot of fun, and quite close to our home stores. The feeling on the ride home was that we'll definitely attend their events in the future. Between this place, Gastonia, Murfreesboro and the couple of clubs in ATL there are a lot of tournaments in this region. It's a good time.

How do you get the most battle points and end up in 8th. It seems at the very least you would be third. Comp and soft scores are wonderful.

It is amazing how perspective influences things like this. I would say though, if winning at all costs is the goal, most of you guys' lists achieve that, aside from the GK army that I've seen said player running for at least 4 if not more years now.
I recommend you start believing in those comp and soft scores you mentioned not believing in in a prior thread, as they hurt you pretty bad.

And that's without some of your opponents dinging your army on their sheets...

You kidding me? What's so win-at-all costs about 40kenthusiast's list? A Lord, some Warriors, some Immortals, some Ds and HDs. Oh noes? What were you expecting, mass Pariahs? None of the others seem in any way remarkable cheese-wise, either (unless somehow you have not yet gotten used to the idea that Nidzilla exists--and hey, at least it has a Lictor and no Guard). They are all just solid, tried-and-tested lists, except for the Ork list, which is not even that. Whine more pls.

Wow.. I didn't even attend the tournament, but seeing your army list makes me think that you must be quite the god. I mean after all, it takes a lot of skill to completely break an already broken codex. Hats off to you for showing the weakness in the overall force organization problems that permeate 40k.

I shudder to think what our own military would be like if we had minimum troops and maximum support.

Let's see...No Monolith, no lord with veil...That's not even close to broken.

guytane wrote:Wow.. I didn't even attend the tournament, but seeing your army list makes me think that you must be quite the god. I mean after all, it takes a lot of skill to completely break an already broken codex. Hats off to you for showing the weakness in the overall force organization problems that permeate 40k.

I shudder to think what our own military would be like if we had minimum troops and maximum support.

Yes, because a toy soldier game is exactly like the real military! Lets compare them together, it makes a lot of sense........



As to xurben, sorry, but I don't really care for comp scores, much. I'll be as good a sport as I can by being nice/polite & joking around with my opponents. I'll even remind my opponent about rules even if they benefit them (like in my first round game, my opponent forgot that his plasma cannons were actually blast weapons... how, I dunno, but I informed him and took the hits instead of just a single shot). But really, what's the point of comp in a tournament setting? My view of a tournament, at least, is a "bring the best you can against the best others can". I don't understand the whole idea of watering down your army so that your opponent's nice and fluffy list can beat you. Why? Honestly, if someone gets angry about tough games / losing, then why go to a competitive tournament with a weak list?

Player-A wrote:
Yes, because a toy soldier game is exactly like the real military! Lets compare them together, it makes a lot of sense........

As to xurben, sorry, but I don't really care for comp scores, much. I'll be as good a sport as I can by being nice/polite & joking around with my opponents. I'll even remind my opponent about rules even if they benefit them (like in my first round game, my opponent forgot that his plasma cannons were actually blast weapons... how, I dunno, but I informed him and took the hits instead of just a single shot). But really, what's the point of comp in a tournament setting? My view of a tournament, at least, is a "bring the best you can against the best others can". I don't understand the whole idea of watering down your army so that your opponent's nice and fluffy list can beat you. Why? Honestly, if someone gets angry about tough games / losing, then why go to a competitive tournament with a weak list?

What would happen to our military if we trained nothing but Navy SEALs and Green Berets? The point of a force organization is that you should have more troops than you do anything else. If GW didn't want people to have troops, it would be a 0-2 option and everything else 1-6. The point is that troops make up the core of any army.

I know you guys like to argue that it's in the codex and therefore it's not cheesy blah blah blah. I've heard it before. The fact that you don't care about comp scores just shows that you're in it to do nothing else but win a tournament. But just winning your games doesn't win a tournament. People who form armies like the necron one above are the reason sportsmanship and army composition are in the game. It's designed so that people who play simply to take advantage of the codex have a harder time winning a tournament.

And just another comparison.. Back in the day, I used to play in Street Fighter 2 Tournaments a lot. Sure, I could have kept someone infinitely trapped in the corner for most of a match and win it that way. But what's that say about my actual skill level? It just means I've memorized a combo and taken advantage of game mechanics. By your theory, I shouldn't have been able to win without taking advantage of the most broken combinations in the game. Well, I won several tournaments and never had to rely on any such tactics.

That being said, I doubt any of you could win with a truly balanced army. You have to use the crutch that's built in the system to make up for your lack of skill and knowledge of tactics.

guytane wrote:What would happen to our military if we trained nothing but Navy SEALs and Green Berets?

LOL, I'm sorry, I can't take anything you say seriously when you compare Warhammer 40k to the US Military.

Dude if you really look at the Us military it is min troops backed up by max support. For every Infantry man you have 7-10 support people just to support that one guy. and thats not including things like Arty , air craft, armor, and spec ops. Which is why a platoon of US infantry can often inflict up to 6 times is own strength in casulities because it is well supported. Your what would happen if we trained everyone to SEAL and Special Forces (thats how you really refer to Green Berets) doesn't hold water due to the fact that these unit require even more support to be useful. And if you really step back two armies right now due a pretty good job of show casing US military style tactics in there own way. Mech Tau simulate standard Mixed infantry with small mobile units (crisis suit) are backed by vehicle and mounted infantry to bring massive amounts of precise firepower to targets. Mech Eldar of the tri falcon/tri harlie variant replicates SpecOps style by using small, deadly, and hard to kill units. So remember when the other side gets the US army list they always call it Cheesy you know why CAUSE IT's ING WAR. Tournments are not your weekly gaming night they are a contest. A contest using little army men but a contest non the less. if you want to bring your fluff list go a head but don't complain when your matched up agaisnt an all comers tournie list and they proceed to beat you.

UG, PA, let's not pick arguments with folks we've never met. I write these reports with an eye towards generating favorable publicity for local tournaments, and perhaps amusing a few readers. We had a good time, it's cool to share that. If readers don't appreciate our lists or some such, that's fine. They are certainly entitled to their opinions, and I can't imagine anyone's viewpoint on the nature of tourney play will change after having an argument on a forum.

The similarity, or lack thereof, of this game to any of aspect of reality isn't really any part of this thread, and I can't see anything constructive arising from a discussion of same. Besides pissing off strangers, what's the point to expressing an issue on this topic?

guytane wrote:And just another comparison.. Back in the day, I used to play in Street Fighter 2 Tournaments a lot. Sure, I could have kept someone infinitely trapped in the corner for most of a match and win it that way. But what's that say about my actual skill level? It just means I've memorized a combo and taken advantage of game mechanics. By your theory, I shouldn't have been able to win without taking advantage of the most broken combinations in the game. Well, I won several tournaments and never had to rely on any such tactics.

That being said, I doubt any of you could win with a truly balanced army. You have to use the crutch that's built in the system to make up for your lack of skill and knowledge of tactics.

I disagree with you guytane. Firstly the necron army is by no means broken. I'm not sure what part of it you actually have a problem with...other than maxing out several force org selections other than troops. It is well known that the troops selection of the nectarines is well short of "ripe". Other people have already voiced the army as not being broken.

Umm I hope you aren't talking about World Warrior glitch in street fighter. That would be a numpty comparison.

Memorising a combo and taking advantage of game mechanics are what people always do to win. How much a game is broken in terms of game mechanics is what defines it as a good game or not.

Please don't confuse a good player with a bad game.

Hopefully they make a better version that balances the brokeness out

Opinions about soft scores and composition and the realism of 40k as an accurate combat simulator aside, who goes to the trouble of creating an account strictly to insult a bunch of people based off nothing but assumptions based on army lists? 3 lifetime posts out of guytane, all in this thread, all insulting a bunch of strangers for no reason at all. The internet truly is a wonderful and magical place.

Incidentally, as far as that loss with the Destroyers against bugs went, I lost 4 D's/Heavy D's to the preliminary bombardment. That really set the stage for the way this game went down. Generally I couldn't fail to roll a 3+, except for every single time the Venom Cannon inflicted a wound. The rolling was pretty much better than average, but every one of the low rolls that I got resulted in instant death of a destroyer. Oh, and the Deceiver got punked turn 1 by the flying tyrant. That didn't help matters at all.

I think he's insulting the mentality, not so much the person. RTT's are supposed to be fun, not cut throat. Of course that's just going by GW's RT webpage. Also, the game is more commonly referred to as a hobby. I think as far as not liking comp scores, if we remove them, why not remove painting and modeling as well. Or remove the models, we could just have a nice chess tournament, no?

I think the cut-throat style has is place in MTG and other such games where there is no "hobby" side needed or wanted.

Anyhow, as far as commenting on the insults. The very battle report comes off as insulting, especially if you are one of the people mentioned as an opponent.

40kenthusiast wrote:We had a good time, it's cool to share that. If readers don't appreciate our lists or some such, that's fine. They are certainly entitled to their opinions, and I can't imagine anyone's viewpoint on the nature of tourney play will change after having an argument on a forum.

Yeah, probably right. Comp complaints are just frustrating for me, as it's completely open to opinion. Moving on, then.


BeefyG, that is a huge shark! Did you catch that yourself?

I know you guys like to argue that it's in the codex and therefore it's not cheesy blah blah blah. I've heard it before. The fact that you don't care about comp scores just shows that you're in it to do nothing else but win a tournament. But just winning your games doesn't win a tournament. People who form armies like the necron one above are the reason sportsmanship and army composition are in the game. It's designed so that people who play simply to take advantage of the codex have a harder time winning a tournament.

Comp scores have always been a joke and heres why. I would say 3/4 of the people who play are enjoyable and are good sports. It's the 1/4 who are just tools and will always be tools. If you get matched up against a tool in a tournament then regardless of what you say or do he is going to have a great affect on the outcome of your placing in the tourney. That's the inherent flaw in a comp system. I even had a judge throw down the minimum expectations of the comp system in a speech before a tourney and over heard a guy at the next table giving a guy a low score with him stating I never give above a blankety blank. So my main point when I complained about the comp system is I don't want to have a social slow give me comp scores because he can't grasp tactics and seems to lose every game he plays. These people can't seem to catch a clue that it's not lists/cheesy players that are beating them but thier own ineptness so blame the other player/list and give them soft scores. (I would also like to see them bath the night before instead of working on thier lists all night that get beat anyway)

My apologies to 40Kenthusiast for the highjack and your list is in no way is cheesy. I would even go out on a limb here and say it probably has more to do with generalship and knowing your list and your opponents list better than they do. It even sounds like you have had plenty of experience playing top lists based on your statements playing against your friends and other tourneys. Sounds like your well prepared. I know I know, crazy statements or maybe the obvious.

Yea, I don't get it either. A Tournement is supposed to be won. You don't cheat, you play politely, but it is fun because you are trying to win against the best people. I never understood why some people expect a tournament to be anything less than "bring your best."

I have theories, but they do not reflect nicely on their personality or ability to succeed and get girls in high school mostly, so who knows how valuable they are without knowing them personally.

Really though, that was a pretty good battle report, and other than the unfortunate mission, looks like it was a good time at the tourney.

I don't understand how a person could try to prepare an army that could potentially win the tournament and even manage to make any plans at all for comp scores. Not only are they ludicrously subjective, (nevermind people who will tank you just because they lost), they also vary wildly from place to place and tournament to tournament. This last tournament had comp scores of 0-2, with descriptions that went along the lines of how like an actual ___ army it represented, but the descriptions also mentioned paint job and overall army look, so it's not even a purely comp-based scoring system. Other tournaments I've been to recently had the judges/organizers award points for "theme/fluff" type stuff, but no scores from your opponents (only sportsmanship from them). Some tournaments just don't use it altogether. Then I read about tournaments that have specific rubrics for how many comp points you get based on numbers of different slots used, number of troop slots, sometimes %-age of total points spent in different FO slots, all manner of specific scoring. How is it possible to try to legitimately give weight to comp scores when building an army if you want to try to win games? Who's to say if the loss of a 3rd unit of ____ for more random Troops isn't going to hurt you more than a comp score which may be huge or nonexistent? Maybe someone out there has a better idea than me about how to plan out a strong army that also maximizes comp scores, but I ignore them because there doesn't seem to be anything to do about them. Even the "fluffy" GK list only had 3 Troops, if I recall correctly. But they're Grey Knights, so apparently they can only be fluffy, there's no bad comp there.

And to Wehrkind, yes, it was a good time at the tourney. I don't think they got nearly the turn-out they wanted, (though that means we didn't have to go to the overflow room) but they ran it well. Other than the practice of having players place terrain at the start of the game, no complaints at all.

xurben wrote:

Anyhow, as far as commenting on the insults. The very battle report comes off as insulting, especially if you are one of the people mentioned as an opponent.

What part of this report was insulting? The only comments that didn't consist of praise to the opponent were a comment that the round 1 player had a very generous 6" (which is just a statement of fact, not an insult) and about the 2nd round player's list. And he even said he liked the list, he just didn't think it was competitive. It's an accurate assessment of the army, which was thematic, but didn't have the capabilities to hold its own with most competitive armies. Again, just because people might not like to hear something doesn't make it an insult. The only person really insulted in this write-up is B, and I hear he's terrible anyway.

sirisaacnuton wrote:The only person really insulted in this write-up is B, and I hear he's terrible anyway.

Agreed.. that's the last time I lend him my list!

Especially cause now people go around saying how they beat my list with "no problem", hehe. Like the guy B played in our last local tournament, who had Night Lords, he's quite pleased to tell everyone how badly he beat my big bugs... doesn't mention it was someone else playing. :p

I've played both Player-A and 40kenthusiast in a local tournament, and no matter what both of them say about not liking "soft" scores they don't ignore them. Both of them take great pains to be good sports during the game, and they try to have average if not well painted armies. Are their lists tough? Yes they are! But, I would hold back on calling them "cheese." They don’t pick one broken unit and max it out (monolith). Even if I know that there is little chance I have of winning the game, I don’t feel robbed because both players take the time to teach you how to play the game better. They have definitely challenged me to put together a much tougher Mech Tau list for the next tournament.

I brought the Greenskins that won the RTT. I went 2-0-1 with a draw to a Zilla Nid list. What put me over the top was being voted favorite player and best comp from all 3 of my opponents. In game 1 and 2 I was able to drown my opponents in a green tide. The Nurgle army didn't have the firepower to thin the herd and the Eldar player couldn't take advantage of his shooting due to constricted fire lanes on the table. I would probably have lost against the Zilla Nids. The table had little to no LOS blocking terrain. I pulled a draw when, on the last turn, my SAG MEK targetted a Zoanthrope. I rolled boxcars for the STR. The shot scattered just enough to also partially cover 2 Carnis and I got them with the 4+ die roll. It was the first time my opponent said he lost not 1 but 3 big bugs immune to instant death with one shot.

My list was basically:
Biker Boss
SAG MEK
Kommandos w/Snikrot
Loota Mob
2 Trukk Mobz
30 Boy Shoota Mob
20 Boy slugga Mob
2 Rokkit Buggies
Mob of StormBoyz
BW w/4 BSs and DeffRolla
BW w/Killcannon

No wonder you won that list is Borken.