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LOL.



And hey, I got two 1st place sportsmanship votes out of three even though I was playing a broken army! And I think the only comp that got dinked was 40k-E's? Lemme just repeat his sentiment of "screw Scouting Engagement", though. :p

Lemartes wrote:No wonder you won that list is Borken.

Never heard of an Ork list being broken (or borken for that matter). Pray tell how? Nothing min-maxed and more than one selection taken from each force org slot. 122 minis. Troops were 38% of total points. Elites at 22% and nothing else over 15%. Would you prefer I added more Boyz?

I went 2-0-1 there were at least 2 armies that went 3-0. Not my fault if my opponents felt I was deserving of high sportsmanship and comp. Even the Nid player that lost 2 Carnis and Zoanthrope to one shot voted me favorite opponent.

I think that Ork list is pretty darn cool. Lots of variety with only 2 doubles of units (BW and Trukk boyz) both of which are very Orky and fluffy to have more than one of. There might be arguments over how balanced orks are at present, but I would be excited to get to fight that army, if for no other reason than it looks almost exactly as I imagine orks fighting.
If a list can be perfectly fluffy and broken at the same time, GW accidentally did something right I would say.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:

Lemartes wrote:No wonder you won that list is Borken.

Never heard of an Ork list being broken (or borken for that matter). Pray tell how? Nothing min-maxed and more than one selection taken from each force org slot. 122 minis. Troops were 38% of total points. Elites at 22% and nothing else over 15%.

And that is meaningless as to if a list is broken. Some armies have a lot better troops than others. Orks (especially in hordes) are one of those. Now if you had taken Grots and grot artillery and no biker boss, then maybe you could talk...

skyth wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:

Lemartes wrote:No wonder you won that list is Borken.

Never heard of an Ork list being broken (or borken for that matter). Pray tell how? Nothing min-maxed and more than one selection taken from each force org slot. 122 minis. Troops were 38% of total points. Elites at 22% and nothing else over 15%.

And that is meaningless as to if a list is broken. Some armies have a lot better troops than others. Orks (especially in hordes) are one of those. Now if you had taken Grots and grot artillery and no biker boss, then maybe you could talk...

And now we're back to the opinion that a list is broken or cheesy unless you take bad units. A list that has a giant number of boyz, in big mobz, moving across the battle however they can (some found/built a wagon, some scrounged up rokkit packs, some are sneaky, the Boss got a bike from somewhere, and the rest just hoof it) is about as Orky as it gets. Would it be fluffier not to have a Warboss in an Ork army?

I've played a lot of games in my time... card games and board games, video games, RPGs, table top games... and nowhere besides here have I ever seen such a strongly-embedded opinion that you're doing something wrong unless you handicap yourself and specifically DON'T try to play to win. Makes no sense.

Well, anyone who would decide that this list is not fluffy, or not a good representative of what an Ork army should look at, is pretty much saying that their definition of comp is "If your army's good, you have bad comp. If your army's bad, you have good comp." Orks are good... most of the units in that codex are very strong, and even the weaker ones are pretty strong compared to most other armies' weak units.

Congrats again on your win, Boss GN.

skyth wrote: And that is meaningless as to if a list is broken. Some armies have a lot better troops than others. Orks (especially in hordes) are one of those. Now if you had taken Grots and grot artillery and no biker boss, then maybe you could talk...

So says the man that once took this list to a tourney. And it was only 1850 points.

2xTyrants (Venom cannon, talons, toxin, senses, extended carapace, scream)
3xCarifexes (2xTL devourers, senses)
22 Spinegaunts
20 Termaguants
2x8 Genestealers (Carapace)
3 Zoeys (Scream, 2xWarp blast, 1xSynapse)
2xCarnifexes (strangler, venom cannon, senses, T7, 5 wounds, 2+ save)

Damn I love the search feature

What's wrong with that? He has 58 troops and 10 non-troops! It's GRRRRRRREAT! (Or should that be GRRRRATEd cheese... )

Viperion

Hey, I don't have a problem playing against any list. I don't have a particular problem with your ork list.

The issue I had is that you're basing it's lack of brokenness off of troop quotient, which is a bad way of judging it. The list you used (Just like the one I used) is a powerful list. Both could also have been made a lot worse.

Now, is the ork list a 'fluffy' list? Yeah, I would admit that, even though I don't see any 'bad' units there and I see the standard power build stuff in the list. It is definitely more of a power list than 40kE's which is missing the key thing that makes Necron lists hard as nails - Teleportation (Not to mention re-rolling WBB).

So in a power-based comp system, your Ork list should score lower. Granted, you didn't list the upgrades on your units.

Upgrades are easy to list:
Every Nob had a PK and BP
The buggies had RPJ
The BWs had Riggers and plates.
The Trukks had RLs and rams.

That was it. I take very few upgrade items. To me bodies win the day, not fancy pieces of equipment.

No rockets in the squads?

Hey player A

Yeah its a 3.4 metre Mako shark that tried to eat my brother while spearfishing off the east coast of NSW.

I got a Boom-headshot though so it was all ok Made the paper and the radio. I got to say in the paper that my brother screams like a girl, hehehe.

I enjoy 40kenthuisiasts attitude to gaming and reflection of his experiences doing so. Strikes me as a cut out the crap kind of guy. Keep up the interesting reports I say.

I think far too much ball cupping goes on so the nerds don't hyperventilate and piss their pants.

Forgot them. Had 2 Rokkits in the 20 Ork slugga mob. BSs were in the 30 ork shoota mob

You killed an 11-foot long shark with a spear? Bad-ass.

BeefyG wrote:I got to say in the paper that my brother screams like a girl, hehehe.

Hah, that is awesome.

sirisaacnuton wrote:You killed an 11-foot long shark with a spear? Bad-ass.

Bad-ass dude. Fracking Bad-Ass.

Love the BRs and the overall tournament report.

Hell, I hate playing crons, but 40KE's list ain't cheese or broken.

Neither is the ork list that won. It's very similiar to lists that I have run in the past. Both can be beat.

The cry of cheese/beardy/broken is the last resort of the mentally challenged.

I really think that GW promogulated the use of cheesy and beardy as an excuse to cover up their failings at balancing army lists. Perhaps with good reason too, since sometimes it is fun to play games with less than optimal builds with your friends. If Salvage wants to rock a 3 dread chaos force, I will bring the Penitents and Repentia to hack them up or die horribly. I won't try and power build my list so that I know I can win.
If we are going to a tournament though, the obvious purpose is to win. It isn't to "play around and experiment with funky builds". That's what casual games are for. In a tournament you bring your A game and A list, and win the best you can. I might counsel big BS against taking his beloved walking coffins, but I am not going to hamstring myself with crappy units just because some people don't know how to build lists.

I just can't quite grasp where people are coming from. There is no other realm of human endeavour where a tournament is entered without attempting to win it. You don't see Super Bowl or World Cup teams running their second and third string guys because they are afraid their opponants will consider them unsportsman like.
Then again, if GW were running Soccer, perhaps there would be rules that French players had to be under 5'3" and have club feet while British blokes get to field 15 players at any given time.

The SuperBowl analogy is flawed; there are no composition and sportmanship scores in professional football

The issue is not so much "good" lists, but lists which ignore the underlying flavour of the setting in favour of optimum-sized units in game-rule terms. Which is why I am a big hater of 6-man las/plas squads; shouldn't partial squads be reformed into 10-man units, as that's how each squad trains?

The Ork list here, IMO, falls firmly in the "good, but fluffy" category.

Viperion

Meh. Doesn't seem over the top to me.

Like this thread. What's the point again?

Viperion wrote:The SuperBowl analogy is flawed; there are no composition and sportmanship scores in professional football

That's kinda the point

But there is sports scoring in the form of penalties...

May I propose a purpose for the thread-educating players with less experience so that they can give a more challenging account of themselves.

Next: A question for the thread author, would the last game against the Dark Eldar have been closer IF he had moved first/shot first?

Next: A question for Stelek, if he happens to visit the thread again. Would the Dark Eldar player have done better playing WEB WAY PORTAL Dark Eldar, or is this Necron configuration just bound to destroy the portals before troops can come in?

Next: This is the sort of army that makes me cringe as a marine player-I could see all my heavy support Devastator squads, or Terminators, go down on turn one without getting off a shot. Stelek has opined that it is just a matter of progressively targeting the Necron's best stuff until phase out. Any marine players been successful against this Decepticon model??

Thanks!

Decepticrons
Deceiver
10 warriors
11 warriors
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
8 Immortals
8 Immortals
8 Immortals
1 Heavy Destroyer
1 Heavy Destroyer
1 Heavy Destroyer

You mean this crap list?

I'd enjoy playing it very much.

Lots of shooting.
Slowpoke stupidhead.
Lots of little easily destroyed units.

I'd love to play my Tau against it.

My DE portal army would own it very very badly. My opening deployment units are immune to everything in this list except the heavy destroyers. It'd be f*cking hilarious. Oh, you shoot me? Nothing happens. Shoot more. Oooh tickle. I can deploy when I want and the necrap can't get away? Man, sign me up. It'd be a bit of a pain trying to zap that many necrons, but being totally open to any close combats I want to initiate after I alpha strike the army? Oh boy. Like a kid in a candy store.

Sorry, I've seen this list alot. It scares noobs, horde, and vehicle armies. I run none of those, and at last check I'm a bully not a noob.

I don't really know all that much about Dark Eldar, so I'm not really sure of what they're capable of fielding. But what exactly are you fielding with your opening deployment that is "immune" to all the shooting in this list except the 3 Heavy D's? I might have to get some of those.

Grotesques of course.

Shuts down most armies ability to stop the WWP deployment.

Stelek wrote:Grotesques of course.

Shuts down most armies ability to stop the WWP deployment.

Uh, seriously? You do realize that Destroyers would absolutely wreck grotesques. The regular destroyers have a high enough strength to insta-kill them, too. Or the big D can just go "Make a morale check at leadership 5". Then you have nobody to place the portal and everyone inside is dead.

Gee, grotesque's with squad leaders.

Man that'd be effin sweet.

Sorry, were you being serious?

"Next: A question for the thread author, would the last game against the Dark Eldar have been closer IF he had moved first/shot first?"

Absolutely. Basically we both deployed facing one another as close as possible, whoever went first would have had an enormous edge. If he'd gone first all the skimmers would have been in the air, and hence un-penetratable. Further, his Wyches would have hit my lines and locked up my front 2 Immortal squads (possibly even breaking them.) and one of them would have been assisted by his HQ. A fair guess is that I'd have been down all heavy D's and 1 and a half unit of destroyers in the shooting phase, plus whatever the casualties from Wyches beating up on Immortals were (1-2 Immortals in one unit, the other obliterated when the HQ hit), so I'd be down roughly the same 800 points he went down.

Now, my list is better able to cope with this sort of thing than his was (through WBB and high morale, plus no entangling issues), as the Deceiver is going to devour his entire assault element, while WBBing immortals in cover can fire back and forth with his skimmers adequately, but after the first turn massacre of my Destroyers I can't split my fire enough to cause him real problems, and the prevalence of Night Shields would have been a horrific pain with only 24" shooting. I bet I'd avoid phase out but lose by solid/major victory if I ran and hid, but lose by phaseout if I tried to fight back straight up.

When I said Borken I was jesting. This thread went wrong real fast. Humor just doesn't translate into the boards. Early posts were talking about how cheesy/ broken lists were and thus I jested about the ork list winning because it was "Borken". Sheesh, chill people.
I don't consider anything cheesy or broken. Eldar Falcons push the envelope but that makes sense to me because the rest of thier list is a little soft and squishy.

Oh come on Lem...humor works great on the internawt. I tried to carry on some humor but no one seemed to get it. lol

Stelek wrote:
My DE portal army would own it very very badly.

I also happen to have a rather large Dark Eldar army (little over 7K) so I probably have the minis you use. If you don't mind PM me your list O' Doom and I'll put it up against the Decpticrons since we both game at the same place. I'd seriously like to see how it fares against them.