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Rubber Hawk tactics are gay....so I'll abuse them since GW wants to rule that you can do it.

HQ

Autarch-Wings, Shuripistol, PW, Mandiblasters, Haywire, Plasma
Baharroth- Talon, PW, Haywire, Plasma, Grenade Pack, Intercept, Skyleap, Hit & Run

TROOPS

(10)Dire Avengers; Exarch w/2xASC, Bladestorm; Waveserpent w/Twin Brightlance, Spirit Stones
(10)Guardians w/ Scatterlaser ; Waveserpent w/Twin Brightlance
(5)Pathfinders

FAST

(5)Swooping Hawks; Exarch w/Power weapon, intercept, skyleap
(5)Swooping Hawks; Exarch w/ skyleap
(5)Swooping Hawks; Exarch w/ skyleap

HEAVY

Fire Prism w/Holo-Feild, Spirit Stones
Fire Prism w/Holo-Feild, Spirit Stones
Fire Prism w/Holo-Feild, Spirit Stones


7 possible Pie Plates per turn. Anti-Tank seems covered. Grenade Packs every turn Skyleaping back out until Endgame (Turn 5) when you begin on working to contest whatever you need to with Hawks. (unless its a Killpoint mission where you continue to skyleap Hawks, Baharroth, and Autarch)

Pretty much a second turn army with everything starting in Reserves every game with the exception of Prisms/Pathfinders...maybe.

Baharroth seems expensive when in comparison to a second Autarch for another +1 reserves. If you think about it however, his utility is better. A second autarch gets your reserves in on 2+ on turn 2 instead of 3+ with a single. (whoopie doo!) However, seems to me like a bit of a waste of 100 pts...that will be the only thing he contributes. Baharroth at least contributes another grenade pack and decent Hit & Run HtH during the endgame to shift enemies off of objectives...assuming he joins the hawk squad containing the Autarch. When charging it will be 5 str 4, and 9 str 3 high Int power weapon attacks...respectable if not awesome....and again, with Hit & Run OR Skyleap to leave combat.

What do you think?

Are you building this army?

Or looking for feed back on your brainstorm?

Build it, looks like a list for a fun game.

Funny, Phoenix and I were talking about the same list not too long ago...

Kat Lady wrote:Are you building this army?

Or looking for feed back on your brainstorm?

Build it, looks like a list for a fun game.

It's pretty much built, just one Prism and 5 Pathfinders to pick up.

....looking for feedback really.

So are you planning on holding your troops in your transports and flying around until it is safe to come out? The list's only weakness is the small amount of troops you have. Although the nice thing is that holding them in reserve looks to be the key. I'm glad that some eldar players have wised up and are starting to field BL's again even though they are one of the more expensive weapon upgrades.

Capt K

Looks like you'll be playing to draw in most games unless you can keep those 2 units of mobile troops alive.

So you kill the Fire Prisms then the Serpents, and the rest of this army tickles you to death?

What army does this army beat, again?

Exactly.
I have experienced the great power of the swooping myself with my 1k nidzilla list. They killed about 3 Gaunts a turn.
But i just didn't really care...

I'd say 3 units of hawks are pretty worthless...

UGH I can't stand Hawks, they've sucked hard since 2nd ed.!

Yeah, this army will die very fast with so few things actually to shoot at. You have two objective taking units that will neither stand up to half the firepower they will be subjected to with so much of the army off-table. Plus the fact that that many "yo-yos" will piss off anybody you play against and guarantee they work extra hard to wipe everything that is not fortunant enough to be bouncing up-and-down of the table.

I'd at least try and clinch those Reserve rolls a bit better with the second Autarch and use the saved points for another Troop perhaps. A few failed Reserve rolls and the rest of your army will be even more hung out to dry.

Play it a few times and then report back. The only thing making it resonable are the skimmers. The Hawks are next to worthless excep maybe against Tau and gaurd.

Stelek wrote:So you kill the Fire Prisms then the Serpents, and the rest of this army tickles you to death?

What army does this army beat, again?

Yea, just kill Superprisms, cause its just that easy....and since I dont know anything about target priority, they wont shut down any threats at all, just shoot at meaningless things so that you can destroy them easily at extreme range. (which they'll be at)

You could pretty much say what you just did about any army. All you have to do is kill this, this and this...then what are you going to do....? Still waiting for some constructive comments from you stelek, im sure you can do it.

...but I understand, you dont like Swooping Hawks. It's that simple. They happen to be my favorite aspect, they just generally have sucked in the past (except for the old sustained attack, which is now gone). I wont try to insist that this list is the best that Eldar can do, but if you happen to like Hawks, some variation on this list might be fun to play.

Martndemus wrote:Exactly.
I have experienced the great power of the swooping myself with my 1k nidzilla list. They killed about 3 Gaunts a turn.
But i just didn't really care...

I'd say 3 units of hawks are pretty worthless...

If you're running a horde of tyranids, not necessarily big bugs, this list could devestate you. 7 pie plates a turn? No saves vs any of them? That wont hurt gaunts?

Nurgleboy77 wrote:
I'd at least try and clinch those Reserve rolls a bit better with the second Autarch and use the saved points for another Troop perhaps. A few failed Reserve rolls and the rest of your army will be even more hung out to dry.

For 100 pts you get that second autarch jumpin in and out....giving you the second turn 2+. You really think that he's worth it over the phoenix lord? Thats all he give the army. At least the phoenix lord can fight a bit in HtH and lends another grenade pack. I dont really think another Autarch is worth the trouble.

...it's a thought though.

Sigh.

I see you haven't played any 5E yet.

You cannot hide Fire Prisms from Lascannons in ANY standard mission.

I don't know about you, but I know from my own Fire Prism experience it doesn't take much to rip the gun off.

Then what have ya got?

Go ahead, tell me you are going to ram.

There's people (besides me) who I've seen in action and don't think suck, telling you this list is weak.

Do with that information what you will.

There's a challenge for you then Stelek...

Build me a swooping hawk list...best you can. Obviously its more for fun than stomping fools...but how to?


I built this list with the intention of kill point denial along with practised objective contesting/grabbing...not neccessarily killing everything in sight. It's a dancing list....and again...a "for fun" one.

i think this army will draw , That's about the best that i can say for it. It's alright for a list specifically designed to min/max + abuse rules, but do you really want to be that guy? You are probably right that the phoenix lord is better for your purposes than a second autarch. perhaps you are luckier than i, but i would think an opponent of your calibre could kill/rout 25 eldar troops fairly easily, then you are struggling for a tie.

so for all those points you get a whopping 4 yes count em 4 BOLTER TEMPLATS (the are S 4 AP 5 arnt they?)

im just dont see what all the hype is about.

in my experiance (playing vs them) a squad that has a unit leader, with power weapon (or mabey something better) and sustained attack is crazy.

i havent come accros an eldar player that made it into close comabt with me since thier previous dex... do they even have sustained attack anymore??

If I were running this, I would start the whole army in reserve. You still get a +1 to reserve rolls even if the autarch isn't on the board yet. If possible give your opponent first turn. Turn oneand two my opponent twiddles his thumbs.

My turn two units show up on 3+. Swooping Hawks swoop. Fire Prisms sail on at combat or cruising speed, hiding behind stuff to gain cover but leaving clear shots for turreted weapons, where possible. Transports move on flat out speed, gaining 4+ cover anywhere on your half of the table. If there is a reasonable amount of terrain you should be able to make it tricky for your opponent to use his whole army effectively. You could also tank shock to force your opponent's infantry units to squeeze up, then bomb them with grenades and fire prism cannons. This is potentially pretty dangerous in the following turn if your opponent can pop the tanks, but he'll still be hitting on sixes in assault.

In following turns just keep moving the transports to gain cover saves, bouncing the hawks in and out, and wait for last turn. Claim one objective and contest the others and you win, and this is the scariest scenario for you. In KP missions this list is pretty scary.

I like it and I think I'll build it. I only need a Fire Prism, a Wave Serpent and a few infantry. Deadshane1 and I will wave to you poor slobs from first and second place next to the prize table.

Have you considered throwing 2 5 man DA squads inside falcons, with Eldrad fortuning the two falcons a turn?

It should be much more reliable than having them in waveserpents, and (I think) it fits in better with the whole points denial scheme.

You do lose some firepower in terms of losing the prisms, but I think it makes you much stronger for kill points and the mission with only two objectives. You can easily tank shock the enemy off their own objectives.

It's something to at least consider.

I don't think it's possible to keep the 'flavor' of this army and make a viable force.

You spend 466 points at a minimum just to get 3 templates on the board.

How is this good? How is it even tenable?

I like it and I think I'll build it. I only need a Fire Prism, a Wave Serpent and a few infantry. Deadshane1 and I will wave to you poor slobs from first and second place next to the prize table.

Riiiight..... If I only have to kill 10 Guardians and 10 dire Avengers to make you not be able to claim a damn thing I think I'll survive the "Boingfest" of Swooping Hawks.

Boingfest 2008! lol

Don't forget pathfinders! Plus, if you're waiting till turn two to potentially see the troops come on the board, inside wave serpents no less, it won't be that easy. In fact, we wouldn't have to use the autarch reserve roll bonus for the troops. At higher point levels, throw in some guardian jetbike squads that also start in reserve, and now we have five or six troop units. The jetbikes can turbo boost on and get a 3+ cover save.

this thread makes me wish DAKKA had an eyeroll emoticon...

this thread makes me want to go to the GW site and order 3 boxes of eldar swopping hawks.

i think the jet bikes would work out better for obj grabbers then wave serpant gurdians though.


will i be stalked down a dark ally and have nasty things done to me if i bring this list to a tourny???

will i be stalked down a dark ally and have nasty things done to me if i bring this list to a tourny???

No, but your opponent will probably shake your hand and give you a great big smile after looking over your army list.

Some of you guys are funny.

You know what this thread makes ME do? It makes me remember how once here at this site I posted a Deathwing list, got torn apart online being told how it would never win, then went on to the chicago GT winning 4 out of 5 and missing Best General by VERY few points, also taking home an award for 2nd place Best Sport.

Will this list work? Maybe. I would swap out all the vehicles for bodies and beef up the hawk squads if I were going to run it.

Is it abusive? Not at all.

"You cannot hide Fire Prisms from Lascannons in ANY standard mission. "

Now why is this? In my reading of the "organizing a battle section it says you need 25% terrain. With a mixture of

1- terrain that interferes with LOS and provides cover

2- terrain the provides cover but does not block LOS

3- terrain that blocks LOS completely.

#3 is buildings, tall hills etc. Why are you playing on boards that don't have this?

People used to just slap down a piece of board with a tree on it and call it "woods." This is no good anymore, but you NEED LOS blocking terrain.

Build cool terrain.

Fire Prisms are big.

You have to block 50% to even get a cover save, if I can see any part of you, I can shoot you.

In the standard missions, you cannot hide from lascannons. They can literally fire the length of the board from the deployment zone.

Why are you playing on boards that discourages TLOS?

I can see hiding three being difficult. I still think there should be LOS blocking terrain on every board. At least big enough to hide a land raider. P88 says there should not be too much or too little. To me that means "some" on every board. I love TLOS, but I think you have to model a bit to make it work the best.

Well if you can hide a Land Raider from all 3 quarters then perhaps your terrain is a bit too big, because that's a huge footprint and it makes some armies a real pita to deal with because you can't shoot anything into that area given the almost total removal of indirect fire from the game.