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I really need help with a BT army.... I started a while ago, but that was only for how cool the minis looked. Now, I have a friend that will actually play a game with me, and I really need help knowing what I should do for a simple BT starter army. I like the Chappies, and I know I like the Assault Squads, but I just don't know how to put a small, cheap army all together. I'm probably going to add in some DH Allies- Vindicare Assassin... But I don't know what to use for the actual BT army. Please help!
NOTE: I know that the Emperor's Champion doesn't take up an HQ Slot.

Bumpety-Bump Bump.

Obscurum, what points value are you planning on playing at? With your starting army, you won't have but 100 or so points of wiggle room at 750 points or less after to take care of the prerequisites (EC, 2 Crusader Squads of at least 10 models, and a Marshal).

For your standard 750 points, I'd start with the following:

Emperor's Champion (I'd recommend "Accept Any Challenge" and "Abhor the Witch" for your vow)

Marshal (Lightning Claws are always a good bet, but YMMV)

Crusader Squad (10 Initiates, 5 Neophytes. Power Fist and Meltagun should be considered standard, though Power Sword is more appealing now that the PF only swings once -- only really effective when you take Accept Any Challenge due to the Preferred Enemy Re-Roll)

Crusader Squad (10 Initiates, 5 Neophytes. Same advice as before)

Before a vow and any equipment for the Marshal, this will run you 640 points. If you take Accept Any Challenge (the best of the four vows IMO), that leaves you with 40 points to trick out your Marshal. Lightning Claws and a Combat Shield will fill this list out to a nice 750 points.

Hope that helps.

CK

If you take chaplain, field cenobytes with him,and hide him in the biggest crusader squad.

Don't forget HoA.

Thanks, but what do I do concerning Sword Brethren, you know? I don't know if I'm actually going to go for them, but what would be a good choice concerning them? Are they worth the points?

My Points/replies are in orange, in the quote boxes.

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:Obscurum, what points value are you planning on playing at? With your starting army, you won't have but 100 or so points of wiggle room at 750 points or less after to take care of the prerequisites (EC, 2 Crusader Squads of at least 10 models, and a Marshal).

Taking more then the EC in less then 1000p is just silly. Especially the marshal, with only two crusader squads. Rites Of Battle=Useless, so is the marshal.

For your standard 750 points, I'd start with the following:

Emperor's Champion (I'd recommend "Accept Any Challenge" and "Abhor the Witch" for your vow)

What? Accept Any Challenge is right, but Abhor the Witch? You know it is horribly useless, right? 5+ save? D6 move? It's terrible. There are good arguments for Suffer Not, but not for Abhor the Witch. It's a terrible vow. Don't take it, ect.

Marshal (Lightning Claws are always a good bet, but YMMV)

Why are you wasting points on a IC other then the EC in under 1000p? Especially a marshal, which is pointless since Rites Of Battle doesn't apply. Either A. Nothing or B. Chaplain.

Crusader Squad (10 Initiates, 5 Neophytes. Power Fist and Meltagun should be considered standard, though Power Sword is more appealing now that the PF only swings once -- only really effective when you take Accept Any Challenge due to the Preferred Enemy Re-Roll)

Since the P-fist has the same/better odds(depending) of doing something then the P-weapon, I disagree. Also, you need to be able to kill T8 things. Or you die.

Crusader Squad (10 Initiates, 5 Neophytes. Same advice as before)

Before a vow and any equipment for the Marshal, this will run you 640 points. If you take Accept Any Challenge (the best of the four vows IMO), that leaves you with 40 points to trick out your Marshal. Lightning Claws and a Combat Shield will fill this list out to a nice 750 points.

It will be ripped apart. No long range, ect. Most shooty armies can sit and laugh. Tau/Eldar can be especially painful against you. Ork's could outnumber and outshoot that list. You need some sort of long range or good fire support. You don't even have 24" of range. You're dead especially against say, lash.

Hope that helps.

CK

Obscurum wrote:Thanks, but what do I do concerning Sword Brethren, you know? I don't know if I'm actually going to go for them, but what would be a good choice concerning them? Are they worth the points?

In certain areas, at certain times. I like them for outflanking supporting roles, 222p for a 8 man squad. It can do some hurt. Not a game winner, but a fun addition that at times can be rather effective.

Give me points limits, I can right a list. I'd recommend, in 1000p or less, one big squad+EC, then support units. Fire support squads, vindicators, what have you.

Also, I would not recommend Vindicare assassins, since the Inquisitor+Assassin cost rather a lot. Any other questions, just ask.

Obscurum wrote:Thanks, but what do I do concerning Sword Brethren, you know? I don't know if I'm actually going to go for them, but what would be a good choice concerning them? Are they worth the points?

Probably not, but the models are fantastic to uses as marshals, champions, command squads, etc.

I'm looking at 750 to 1000pts ($ cheap $? budget has very little flexibility), and I kinda want a Chaplain, but what would be the best Chappy equip? Thanks for the replies!

Also:
-I'm going to assume Command Squads aren't very useful for a 750-1000Pt army, is that correct?
-I know these are DH, WH and IG, but I was wondering about a Vindicare/Callidus. Could they be useful as allies?

To Hotsoup:

Who tell you that Rites Of Battle does not work any longer?

Obscurum wrote:I'm looking at 750 to 1000pts ($ cheap $? budget has very little flexibility), and I kinda want a Chaplain, but what would be the best Chappy equip? Thanks for the replies!

Also:
-I'm going to assume Command Squads aren't very useful for a 750-1000Pt army, is that correct?
-I know these are DH, WH and IG, but I wwas wondering about a Vindicare/Callidus. Could they be useful allies?

Cenobytes and HoA.I'm trying to give a fist to chaplain,but cannot conclude whether it is worthy now.

At this points range,you would not have enough point for a well-equipped Command squad.Also for Inquisitors.No enough points for them.But maybe you can try a cheap inquisitor for anti-DS.

Thanks. As I see it, 1,000Pt armies are smaller than I originally believed them to be. If I was to get an IC like Grimaldus be worth it over a regular Chappy?

Also:
-Are BTs solely for Assault, or are they efficient in Shooting as well?
-If you think BTs are "shooty", what equipment would you recommend?
-HoA? I'm sorry, but I have very little experience with BTs, so I don't know what this means... Sorry for the newbishness...

Holy Orb of Antioch.

Grimaldus can give fearless to mutiple squads.But the 1500pts resriction has not been deleted....so you can not field him.

Shooty templars?Ohhh.....maybe you can consult with Stelek.

Dude...

SPAM Land Raider Crusaders. Bring the Emperor's Champion with Accept any Challenge, and bring a Marshall with Lightning Claws. (Re-rolling everything is huge)

Bring a 14 man crusade squad with a Land Raider Crusader and pop the Marshall in there. Have the Emperor's Chump hoof it with another big crusader squad.

Roll up with the land raider, run out and kill everything in HTH. Either hang on an objective with your other squad, or run up the field to get in to help.

OR...

Run the Emperor's Chump, and Grimaldus, and as many Large Crusader Squads as you can. Run up the board in a big horde, and beat everything senseless.

So...

Emperor's Champ (140)
Accept Any Challenge

Marshall (135)
Pair of Lightning Claws
Terminator Armor

Crusader Squad (480)
10 Marines, 1x Powerfist
4 Scouts
In Land Raider Crusader

Crusader Squad (245)
10 Marines, 1x Powerfist
8 Scouts

1000 EVEN

***********************************

Emperor's Chump
Accept Any Challenge (140)

Grimaldus (195)

Crusader Squad (207)
7 Marines, 1x Powerfist, 1x Meltagun
7 Scouts

Crusader Squad (207)
7 Marines, 1x Powerfist, 1x Meltagun
7 Scouts

Crusader Squad (207)
7 Marines, 1x Powerfist, 1x Meltagun
7 Scouts

960, so about 40 points left over to mess around with. Just put grimaldus in the center unit, and run like mad to your enemy.

****************************************************
This is probably the best....

Emperor's Chump (140)
Preferred Enemy

Marshall (135)
Termie Armor, Lightning Claws

Crusader Squad (96)
6x Marines
In Land Raider Crusader (265)

Crusader Squad (96)
6x Marines
In Land Raider Crusader (265)

997....put everything in the Land Raiders, rush up and kill everything.

The best advice I can give you is, play what you like.

I have seen players rock very good tournament players with lists that many people wold knock here on dakka dakka, like the khorne demon bomb list.

So if you like sword knights, play with sword knights. Figure out their strengths and weaknesses by playing them again and again, until you know exactly how to use them, what kit ou like to have on them, and how to win with them.

But don't just ask what people here think, or you may end up with an army that someone else really likes, but you might not.

Thanks for the replies and the help. I'm planning on starting out with a Chappy + EC, and indefinitely two Crusader Squads, Heavily Equipped. I'm not quite sure I'm ready for Heavy Support, as I'm just starting out, but I should have enough guys to play a basic game with my bud. His Eldar are gonna be done for. As I said, thanks for the advice and time. Hopefully I'm making the right army choice. If you have any recommendations for my Crusader Squads in terms of equipment/units, please post.

-I'm debating on a Assault Squad for HTH and stuff like that. I probably need someone to accompany the Chappy (who will have JP to get to the kill quick)...

Listen to sushicaddy's advice.

If you tell us what you WANT to run (theme) and what models you think fit that theme, then we can help guide you to making a list that will work for the average player.

My shooty black templars list is here:

http://yesthetruthhurts.blogspot.com/2008/09/finalized-black-templar.html

Plain and simple-
**(In advance, my copy of the BT rulebook was stolen by my bud, so sorry for any inaccuracies...)**
EC (Duh) w/ good HTH and Individual Buffs
Chappy w/ team buffs and JP, good HTH
A Shooty Crusader Squad w/ heavy weapons (HBs, anything w/ good range for support).
A HTH Crusader Squad (EC followers) w/ good sergeant-dude, BPs only for range, Plasma Pistol for Sarge.
Assault Squad w/ JPs and good HTH (Chappy followers) w/ good sergeant-dude + one flamer, just for the heck of it.

Sorry for the lack of points, but, you know ^^^

Thanks

Notes:
-EC and Chappy are gonna be out there w/ their followers, so they need to press hard. Assault Squad will be used initially as a distraction, reeling enemies in for the Shooters to light up.
-Followers are expected to last long, so they might need any buffs to pump up the armor, whereas Shooties are solely for killing from a range.
-Neophytes might be possible for the Shooty Squad if they offer any different ranged weapon choices (which I don't know about).
-The Assault Squad will also be relied on for distracting enemy units from the Chappy, which will flank on the 'ALLIED' side in order to avoid getting shot up but still make base contact.
-EC's followers will primarily be functional meat that relies on their weapons to distract the enemy from the EC while he "Does Work".
-Chappy and his followers will hit the juicy units while the EC pushes in from the outside to make a connection.
-Shooty Squad will have Anti-Vehicle weaponry, but mostly Anti-Infantry weaponry in order to be balanced and multi-functional.

This is probably the most edits I've ever seen....

Again, responses in orange.

tokugawa wrote:To Hotsoup:

Who tell you that Rites Of Battle does not work any longer?

It works. I never said it was an abolished rule. But in a list with 2x IC's and two squads, it has no use, at all. They both have Ld 10 already.

Obscurum wrote:I'm looking at 750 to 1000pts ($ cheap $? budget has very little flexibility), and I kinda want a Chaplain, but what would be the best Chappy equip? Thanks for the replies!

Chap=MoS, Term Honors, Bolt Pistol, Bionics. Works well. Cerobytes if its foot-slogging.

Also:
-I'm going to assume Command Squads aren't very useful for a 750-1000Pt army, is that correct?
-I know these are DH, WH and IG, but I was wondering about a Vindicare/Callidus. Could they be useful as allies?

Not really, not with the Inquisitor price tag. Try playtesting it though. Sister's are fun as allies, cheap bolters. You could playtest, later on. And yes, command squads are not worth it points wise a lot of the time.

tokugawa wrote:Cenobytes and HoA.I'm trying to give a fist to chaplain,but cannot conclude whether it is worthy now.

At this points range,you would not have enough point for a well-equipped Command squad.Also for Inquisitors.No enough points for them.But maybe you can try a cheap inquisitor for anti-DS.

Works, mystics are awesome. Dunno how awesome in most stages, but awesome.

Obscurum wrote:Thanks. As I see it, 1,000Pt armies are smaller than I originally believed them to be. If I was to get an IC like Grimaldus be worth it over a regular Chappy?

Eh. Hes cool, good stuff. Worth his points, if used right.

Also:
-Are BTs solely for Assault, or are they efficient in Shooting as well?
-If you think BTs are "shooty", what equipment would you recommend?
-HoA? I'm sorry, but I have very little experience with BTs, so I don't know what this means... Sorry for the newbishness...

BT are decent at shooting. Not the best at it, SM can do it better, so it is generally not done.

tokugawa wrote:Holy Orb of Antioch.

Grimaldus can give fearless to mutiple squads.But the 1500pts resriction has not been deleted....so you can not field him.

Yea, need 1500p or more.

Shooty templars?Ohhh.....maybe you can consult with Stelek.

Have fun with that one.

whitedragon wrote:Dude...

SPAM Land Raider Crusaders. Bring the Emperor's Champion with Accept any Challenge, and bring a Marshall with Lightning Claws. (Re-rolling everything is huge)

In most LRC lists you have a character in each squad, making the marshal very meh compared to a chap. Rites of battle is useless, so is the marshal.

Bring a 14 man crusade squad with a Land Raider Crusader and pop the Marshall in there. Have the Emperor's Chump hoof it with another big crusader squad.

Again, chap is better.

Roll up with the land raider, run out and kill everything in HTH. Either hang on an objective with your other squad, or run up the field to get in to help.

OR...

Run the Emperor's Chump, and Grimaldus, and as many Large Crusader Squads as you can. Run up the board in a big horde, and beat everything senseless.

So...

Emperor's Champ (140)
Accept Any Challenge

Marshall (135)
Pair of Lightning Claws
Terminator Armor

Crusader Squad (480)
10 Marines, 1x Powerfist
4 Scouts
In Land Raider Crusader

Crusader Squad (245)
10 Marines, 1x Powerfist
8 Scouts

1000 EVEN

***********************************

Emperor's Chump
Accept Any Challenge (140)

Grimaldus (195)

Crusader Squad (207)
7 Marines, 1x Powerfist, 1x Meltagun
7 Scouts

Crusader Squad (207)
7 Marines, 1x Powerfist, 1x Meltagun
7 Scouts

Crusader Squad (207)
7 Marines, 1x Powerfist, 1x Meltagun
7 Scouts

960, so about 40 points left over to mess around with. Just put grimaldus in the center unit, and run like mad to your enemy.

Odd, how this could use a marshal more then the LRC list.

****************************************************
This is probably the best....

Emperor's Chump (140)
Preferred Enemy

Marshall (135)
Termie Armor, Lightning Claws

Crusader Squad (96)
6x Marines
In Land Raider Crusader (265)

Crusader Squad (96)
6x Marines
In Land Raider Crusader (265)

997....put everything in the Land Raiders, rush up and kill everything.

Why do you want a marshal in a list where rites of battle doesn't work? You can also not do much more then sit on objectives.

Sushicaddy wrote:The best advice I can give you is, play what you like.

Exactly.

I have seen players rock very good tournament players with lists that many people wold knock here on dakka dakka, like the khorne demon bomb list.

Brilliantly said.

So if you like sword knights, play with sword knights. Figure out their strengths and weaknesses by playing them again and again, until you know exactly how to use them, what kit ou like to have on them, and how to win with them.

He speaks the truth.

But don't just ask what people here think, or you may end up with an army that someone else really likes, but you might not.

Which is the main problem with current powergaming and forums. Pick what you want, people can help with your list ideas, but if you don't keep your own and playtest yourself, you set yourself up for boredom and being samey.

Obscurum wrote:Thanks for the replies and the help. I'm planning on starting out with a Chappy + EC, and indefinitely two Crusader Squads, Heavily Equipped. I'm not quite sure I'm ready for Heavy Support, as I'm just starting out, but I should have enough guys to play a basic game with my bud. His Eldar are gonna be done for. As I said, thanks for the advice and time. Hopefully I'm making the right army choice. If you have any recommendations for my Crusader Squads in terms of equipment/units, please post.

Fear eldar, they can eat footsloggy lists alive, ect. Especially skimmer eldar. Good luck though.

-I'm debating on a Assault Squad for HTH and stuff like that. I probably need someone to accompany the Chappy (who will have JP to get to the kill quick)...

If you feel you would enjoy that. I really recommend playtesting EVERYTHING before buying anything.

Thanks for the help.
Hotsoup-when you say that footsloggers get eaten alive by Eldar, do you specifically mean my selection? If so, what can I do to combat this? I know my AS and Chappy will get there quick (and hopefully last long) so my EC and Crew can march in to save the day while the Shooty Squad gives support, so I don't know what's "footslogger" besides the Shooties. Besides that, the Shooties won't necessarily be the primary damage-dealers, so if the Eldar hits them, the AS + Chappy can eradicate the threat nice and easy-like.

My excuses are near infinite.

Obscurum wrote:Thanks for the help.
Hotsoup-when you say that footsloggers get eaten alive by Eldar, do you specifically mean my selection? If so, what can I do to combat this? I know my AS and Chappy will get there quick (and hopefully last long) so my EC and Crew can march in to save the day while the Shooty Squad gives support, so I don't know what's "footslogger" besides the Shooties. Besides that, the Shooties won't necessarily be the primary damage-dealers, so if the Eldar hits them, the AS + Chappy can eradicate the threat nice and easy-like.

My excuses are near infinite.

They are just nasty against most footsloggy armies. Windhost or Holo Prism armies laugh. Dunno how it would go down at 1000p, but... Yea. I'm moving away from footsloggy, especially pure footsloggy. Find points for something long ranged shooty(Lazerback+Las squad, or a Sniper dread maybe?). Playtest, ect.

Sure, Chaps/EC squads will eat Eldar in CC, unless they are harlies/banshees, but if you get stuck trying to kill skimmers with fooslogging squads alone... Dead.

Dreads aren't too expensive, are they? I could probably knock something off to make room for one with lascannons, considering that'll punch a hole in their vehicles while enduring any shots it might take.

Hotsoup,

The Marshall with Lightning Claws is cheaper than the chaplain with lightning claws. Multiple Re-rolls are the bread and butter of the Black Templars now. If you are in a vehicle, you're not taking LD checks until you get to where you are going, which is usually CC, where you'll be fearless anyway.

Alternatively, you could drop the Marshalls into Castellans, save 15 points and add another marine.

whitedragon wrote:Hotsoup,

The Marshall with Lightning Claws is cheaper than the chaplain with lightning claws. Multiple Re-rolls are the bread and butter of the Black Templars now. If you are in a vehicle, you're not taking LD checks until you get to where you are going, which is usually CC, where you'll be fearless anyway.

Alternatively, you could drop the Marshalls into Castellans, save 15 points and add another marine.

But the Chaplain's do not need Lightning claws. They are not THAT effective. Chap's, in foot slogging armies and armies with a low number of non-awesome squads/squads without an IC, are better then marshals. Especially since they have an all around 4+ invul save. Also, Litianies of hate, which is kind of needed if you have any real number of neophytes in a squad. And fearless. And Directing zeal. Marshal's are just generally Meh except for rites of battle. That's their only good point. Everything else, a chap can do it better and live longer doing it.

And for your lists, you were putting in chaps where rites of battle would actually be useful, and putting in marshals where it wouldn't. Each IC depends on what list it is, and you were reversing the situations where they shine.

Obscurum wrote:Dreads aren't too expensive, are they? I could probably knock something off to make room for one with lascannons, considering that'll punch a hole in their vehicles while enduring any shots it might take.

Dreads are great mobile AT. They can hug cover better then most tanks, and can move 6" and fire all weapons. Las/ML dreads can kill things. Especially with venerable+Tank Hunters.

Agree to disagree.

In the Land Raiders, you won't be zealing at all, since you'll be in land raiders. Re-rolling wounds with Lightning Claws ensures the squad wins big in CC. The neophytes are extra bodies. Ideally there would be three squads of Assault terminators with lightning claws as well, but this is only 1000 pts.

Black Templars are fearless in CC anyway, which is where you'll be, so the Chaplain's fearless is pretty meh.

whitedragon wrote:Agree to disagree.

In the Land Raiders, you won't be zealing at all, since you'll be in land raiders. Re-rolling wounds with Lightning Claws ensures the squad wins big in CC. The neophytes are extra bodies. Ideally there would be three squads of Assault terminators with lightning claws as well, but this is only 1000 pts.

Black Templars are fearless in CC anyway, which is where you'll be, so the Chaplain's fearless is pretty meh.

You say this now. I laugh when your 15 man Crusader squad loses one neophyte and falls back 12", enough to be shot to hell without being able to do anything. Falling back anything could lose you the charge. You only have one "safe" charge. I play LRC lists, the basic chap works better then a Claw marshal. Especially since clawed marshals die really quick-like, unless they are given so many upgrades they are no longer remotely cost effective.

You will get more kills with a chap+rerolling neophytes then a marshal with LC's and non neophyte rerolls. You can't look at them as cannon fodder. They cost 10p, orks cost 6. Ork's are cannon-fodder, Neophytes are models you would prefer to live and kill things. Chaps help them with that.

Wait, let me get the humor straight:

You roll over 11 or 12 to fail the IC led Crusader squad then you roll a 12 on 2 dice for your fallback?

I do find that funny.

Every 30 games that it happens.

Neophytes are a partial fail as their primary purpose (to take wounds off the Marines) is often as not, a bad thing to do now.

Why I'd want to spend points on a Chaplain and 7 marines/7 neophytes w/melta and pfist...

When I can spend 41 more points and get 8 terminators with furious charge is really beyond me.

It's not like you HAVE to buy anything but a Emperor's Champion anymore, and he can give everyone re-rolls (except those Neophytes, hmmm maybe don't run them).

Killing 15 marines is I think easier than killing 8 terminators.

I'd appreciate it, to be honest, if this didn't turn out to be an argument...

Also: Are you sure that I would be able to smuggle Venerable Dreadnought into a 1,000Pt list with my current choices, or would I need to completely swap everything up?

Thanks in advance.

Another thing:
I just remembered that my friend told me it used to be possible to equip Termies with JPs. Is it still possible? If it is, would it be completely useless for Termies? Sorry for the off-topic...

Darn- if only I could think of everything at once:
Should I replace my Shooties with a Devastator Squad? I'd figure Devs would be more powerful with the Heavy Weapons I wanna bring out. Heck, I don't even remember if Devs are available to BTs... (absence of BT Codex) If so, I'd probably end up dropping the Assault Squad and the Chappy JP, so I could fit in another HTH BT Crusader Squad so I can have a Compulsory Army selection. I don't know what I can do to drop the footslogishness then, as my friend's got 2 Platforms and a Fire Prism he wants to toy with. Crap.

Stelek wrote:Why I'd want to spend points on a Chaplain and 7 marines/7 neophytes w/melta and pfist...

When I can spend 41 more points and get 8 terminators with furious charge is really beyond me.

It's not like you HAVE to buy anything but a Emperor's Champion anymore, and he can give everyone re-rolls (except those Neophytes, hmmm maybe don't run them).

Killing 15 marines is I think easier than killing 8 terminators.

We are talking 1000 pts here, and you do have to have troops. At a minium, you need 160 pts for two 5 man marine squads to make the army legal, and capture objectives. Plus 140 pts for the emperor's champ with the good vow. So you're 300 down out of the gate and only 700 left. 8 termies and an LRC gobbles up the rest of your points with less than 100 to spare.

If we were talking 1750, there would already be termies. But what do you do in 1000? I'd say put two squads in LRC's, or run a big horde of regular marines. You could drop the Neophytes I guess and just run marines.

To the OP: This is hardly an "argument". That said, you are talking about alot of eclectic randomness in your list, which flies completely against all the advantages that black templars have over regular marines. You may find that the regular space marine codex is more to your liking if you want dreadnoughts, veterans and devastator squads.

Stelek wrote:Wait, let me get the humor straight:

You roll over 11 or 12 to fail the IC led Crusader squad then you roll a 12 on 2 dice for your fallback?

I do find that funny.

Every 30 games that it happens.

Hyperbole, hear of it? Also, it happens more often then you think. DOesn't have to be 12, more then 6 can ruin everything.

Neophytes are a partial fail as their primary purpose (to take wounds off the Marines) is often as not, a bad thing to do now.

Why? Back up please.

Why I'd want to spend points on a Chaplain and 7 marines/7 neophytes w/melta and pfist...

When I can spend 41 more points and get 8 terminators with furious charge is really beyond me.

Maybe because people like scoring units?

It's not like you HAVE to buy anything but a Emperor's Champion anymore, and he can give everyone re-rolls (except those Neophytes, hmmm maybe don't run them).

Maybe play them before commenting on it? They help gakloads. Make you more survivable, ect. You could go 10 man squads, but what could they do? Get shot to pieces? Charged to pieces? Since my Chap+14 man squad have beaten large terminator squads, I don't see you're love of those 40 point monsters.

Killing 15 marines is I think easier than killing 8 terminators.

You, with your infinite experience with using Templar. /sarcasm Your point is worth playtesting however. I'll get on that. Except this is for 1000p, I think even you can see the idiocy of taking 8 terms in 1000p non Deathwing lists.

Obscurum wrote:I'd appreciate it, to be honest, if this didn't turn out to be an argument...

Also: Are you sure that I would be able to smuggle Venerable Dreadnought into a 1,000Pt list with my current choices, or would I need to completely swap everything up?

Thanks in advance.

Dunno, make a list, I'll see. Venerable may be tough. Normal Las/ML may not be tough. I'll try not to get into it with Stelek, though it generally happens. I'll try to ignore him after this.

Another thing:
I just remembered that my friend told me it used to be possible to equip Termies with JPs. Is it still possible? If it is, would it be completely useless for Termies? Sorry for the off-topic...

No way in hell for that to happen. No option, ect.

Darn- if only I could think of everything at once:
Should I replace my Shooties with a Devastator Squad? I'd figure Devs would be more powerful with the Heavy Weapons I wanna bring out. Heck, I don't even remember if Devs are available to BTs... (absence of BT Codex) If so, I'd probably end up dropping the Assault Squad and the Chappy JP, so I could fit in another HTH BT Crusader Squad so I can have a Compulsory Army selection. I don't know what I can do to drop the footslogishness then, as my friend's got 2 Platforms and a Fire Prism he wants to toy with. Crap.

BT do not have Dev Squads. Holo Prism's can be annoying, especially for footslogging. Footslogging is no bad thing, but take some LR AT. Don't know how well it will deal with a prism, but if he's not all skimmer... I'd take a shooty dread or a Laserback+Squad. Maybe 1-2 big squads supported by an IC, and then 10 man shooty squads in rhinos if theirs points.