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Let's suppose Lootas are a nail that needs hammering. What sort of hammer would you, as a player, use, and how would you use it?

Going through the armies, these are some of the nails I've used (or have seen used well).

Space Marines:
Sniper Scouts
Terminators
Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods
Whirlwinds
Land Speeders

Eldar:
Swooping Hawks
Shadow Weavers
Warp Spiders
Pathfinders

Imperial Guard
Mortars
Basilisks
Leman Russ Tanks

Chaos Space Marines
Terminators
Obliterators
Lesser Daemons
Tzeetchian Daemon Princes

Tau
Pathfinders
Sniper Drone Teams
Drone Squadron
Stealth Team

Necrons
Monolith
Lord w/Veil of Darkness and Immortals

Chaos Daemons
?

daemons:

deepstriking flamers or bloodletters.
a bloodthirster if really needed.
if its a small unit then a large unit of screamers should do the job.

I think bloodletters are a bad choice. Horrors or flamers are better, you need first strike capability.

bloods are I4 (5 on charge), lootas are I2 (3 on charge)
im pretty sure that would be 1st strike.
and with thier ammount of attacks which allow no saves (ok, lootas have only got a 6+ SV, but 1 in 6 save ish)

also, bloods are capable of fighting other units.horrors would end up stuck in the midst if the enemy army.

horrors are only WS2, meaning the chances are in combat the orks will wipe them out, 4+ inv or not.

flames i agree with, but you would need to drop them into cover.

on another note, bloods are the cheapest of the 3.

Bloodletters? Seriously?

Yes, Bloodletters will kick Loota butt in assault...
No, Bloodletters will never make it to assault with Lootas. Ever.

If you're going to DS a unit next to them, then it had better be a unit that can do its damage in the turn it drops.

I've had decent success dropping my Deathwing next to a Loota unit. They can hurt the lootas on the turn they drop and then wipe them out in assault. You just need to make sure that the rest of the Ork force is far enough away not to send a unit back to take out your expensive termies.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

By first strike I meant they land and on the same turn they can deal damage. Horrors can do a reasonable amount of damage from 18" (A3 S4 Ap4 Bs3 means that 15 of them will put roughly 10 wounds on the loota squad, rendering it pretty useless.)
Flamers are a bit riskier point for point but they can potentially do as much damage, it's just that you have to risk DSing so much closer.
Remember, the Bloodletters won't get to assault the turn they land, and unless they can run the entire unit behind some LOS blocking terrain they risk being knocked below effective strength by the lootas firepower. Also, they have to DS close to the lootas which is dangerous.
Plaguebearers would actually probably do a better job.

Orks: Kommandos could do it. Putting everyone in battlewagons could do it. Nob bikers are tough and fast enough to make it across the board as long as you give them the painboy upgrade.

Nurglitch wrote:Let's suppose Lootas are a nail that needs hammering. What sort of hammer would you, as a player, use, and how would you use it?

Going through the armies, these are some of the nails I've used (or have seen used well).

Tau
Pathfinders
Sniper Drone Teams
Drone Squadron
Stealth Team

Really...

Since lootas outrange everything in the first two options. Not to mention the AP of the loota gun is enough to give the model no save. I doubt those are really a solution to the loota problem.

I'll give you DS drones or drones from pirahna. They at least can get to the lootas and do some damage. The stealths can outflank, infilitrate, or DS and pump out a lot of shots, so thats good.

I'll also give that SMS systems work wonders against them, especially when spamed. Each unit of lootas can only attempt to down one ship a turn, so not requiring LOS and since they get no save, including cover is pretty good.

I'll just throw out that nothing ruins a loota squads day like Space wolf scouts. Granted its a bit of a toss up when they get there, but when they do, any loota squad hanging back will wish it had moved forward just a bit.

didnt add about dropping the bloods behind terrain, i would have thought most people would do that without thinking rather than dropping into open ground.

plagues might work, FNP helps alot, but due to S&P they might not even get there unless droped pretty close.
also, take into account it wil be a long fight as plagues seriously lack attacks.

horros may do roughly 10 wounds (all depending on luck) but if they leave any more than 7 or so alive it can cause problems.
7, 14 or 21 shots will do some damage, or if close enough the lootas could simply assult.
3 attacks on charge at S4 and WS 4 isnt good for a horror.
even 5 lootas could do serious damage in assult to horrors, and due to crap WS chances are the horrors would struggle to kill over 2 orks a trn.

Let's suppose Lootas are a nail that needs hammering. What sort of hammer would you, as a player, use, and how would you use it?

Going through the armies, these are some of the nails I've used (or have seen used well).

Tau
Pathfinders
Sniper Drone Teams
Drone Squadron
Stealth Team

rather sit back and hit em with a railhead or 2.

Now try and hammer them with a unit of the same actual cost. Two units of 16 Plague Marines cost more than 3x15 Lootas.

I do admit to looking forward to using dual Conversion Beamers against them from long range, or perhaps 3 Whirlwinds.

Drop pod +anything

2x Hellhounds w/smoke

spammed out Horrors

Honestly anything can kill Lootas. The trick is to be able to kill Lootas and also survive the counter assault from whatever Orky elements are protecting them.

I actually faced this " loota" threat last game, as a pace marine player, I planned on countering it by shooting those indencary missles at em and pinning them. It did do some wounds, but the real stars were the scouts with snipers. for 3 straight turns they pinned the looters. But he never shot at them( they were in 4+ cover, and a vindicator was more deserving) I would highly reccomend hiding that whirlwind and killing those looters!

ok, 2 more ideas for daemons:

1: soulgrinder - sit back and shoot em to death with pie plates.

2: the masque - easy way to annoy them, simply hit them with pavane, lootas are heavy D3, so therefor cannot move and shoot
once you move them there goes thier shooting.

Nurglitch wrote:
Chaos Space Marines
Terminators
Obliterators
Lesser Daemons
Tzeetchian Daemon Princes

I don't mean to be A-typical but I'm about to be. The only thing that belongs on that list are Obliterators. TZ DPs are going to get shot to death whether they roll 3+ save or a 4+ Invul save. Terminators are only getting to combat via a landraider or DSing and even then those two options are long shots. The landraider is going to get pounded on, but atleast it has a better chance than DSing them. When they DS they sit there for a turn and wait to be shot to death. Same goes for the Lesser Demons. But Obliterators have the range and the power to shoot them out before they can get to a threatening range. But only if you run a good number of them.

If you're careful with your landraider and you paid for extra armour, the ork player is going to have trouble stopping it from rolling into his lines with whatever it's payload is.
I'd probably try Khorne Berserkers with things coming in off and icon in their squad. The problem is if things start coming in too early. (Before you've gotten into krumpin' range of the lootas)

a defiler would work wonders for chaos.
once again, sit back dropping pies.

to be honest, anything with a high Str large plate works well on them.

Typeline:

I thought you disagreeing with anything I post was typical.

The Tzeentchian Daemon Princes definitely belong on that list. Warptime and Wind of Chaos makes a great sweeper when you deepstrike the Daemon beside the Lootas.

Same with Terminators and Obliterators: Land them beside Lootas and open up with template weapons. Really, this works with any unit that can deepstrike and use a template or blast marker.

The Lesser Daemons take a little bit more thought because they need to come down within the radius of an Icon, but if you get an Icon close by, such as a unit of Terminators that came down the turn previous, then they can assault on the turn they came down. In combination with a follow-up assault from the Terminators, they're great. The Terminators do the damage and the Daemons mop up with the Sweeping Advance.

in defence for nurglitch:

what weapons have ork got tha can kill a landraider?

Zzap and shokk - both random
boomgun - on a AV 11 tank - can only glance
kanon, Kustom MB, rokkit - can only glance

only real threat is a nob with klaw (S9 on charge) or a warboss, S10.

JD21290 wrote:in defence for nurglitch:

what weapons have ork got tha can kill a landraider?

Zzap and shokk - both random
boomgun - on a AV 11 tank - can only glance
kanon, Kustom MB, rokkit - can only glance

only real threat is a nob with klaw (S9 on charge) or a warboss, S10.

Or a killa kan or dreadnought with S10 DCC weapons....

Or a killa kan or dreadnought with S10 DCC weapons....

pretty much falling into the class of klaws.
and you need to get them near it 1st.
lascannons tend to make a mess of most things.


Edit: skipped a few keys when typing.

I'm surprised Land Raiders haven't been mentioned more.

Something about AV14 vehicles against S7 guns just screams "this is the answer".

I played against an ork player at the Chicago GT. He had three smaller units of lootas, but they really didn't have an impact on the game, because I had two landraiders and was able to use them to shield my other stuff.

You don't necessarily have to kill something to render it useless.

Eldar:
Again, surprised no one mentioned warwalkers. The ability to deploy where the lootas cannot see you, and then move out and get the first shots is preyy important. A full unit of scatter laser walkers costs less than a full unit of lootas, and outputs 24 shots@36". That's plenty to put down a squad of lootas. Playing in the team event the night before the Chicago GT, I got to play (with orks) against two armies each with a squadron of walkers and each time they ate my lootas.

Lootas are unarmoured and not particularly good in close combat.

They are aslo expensive.

All in all it should be weasily to think up a long rantge artillery of fast flanking unit that can shoot or assault them and costs less points.

All you need is Av14 or the first shot.

It is easy......



However isolated anti-loota tactics are worse than useless because any ork player should realise this and deploy accordingly. After all lootas are lynchpin units of any army with them. Still lootas are just one of many fragile shooty units, and the tactics needed to defeat them do not change.
Instead you have too look at the ork army as a whole. Lootas work best in a footslogger list with plenty of other orks around them.

battlewagons with dethrollas also kill landraiders.

to be honest no ork player worth his choppa is going to let a landraider near his lootas. more often than not to get to them you have to get through at least 2 powerklaw wielding nob and/or a warboss, not to mention kans/deads/dethrollas. the best way to kill lootas is sternguard in drop pods. 20 S4 AP5 shots that ignore cover will wipe them from the game no problem.

hellhounds will kill lootas, but only if you get the first turn. if you dont, your hellhounds will go down in a blaze of deffgun fire.

tzneetch demon princes will get torn appart before they get there, nurgle princes would do better. lash+[blast weapon] works, if you can get that close enough to use it without getting into combat.

kommandos with snikrot work wonders, but only work on one unit before they get shot by another.

deepstriking terminators can work if you can get close enough to use a heavy flamer, but its a risky business trying that, scout bikes with locator beacons help.

you might get lucky with some outflanking stuff, but i wouldnt count on it every time.

non-jetbike council eldar have trouble. your tansports and infantry are just too vulnerable to that weight of fire. even wraithguard have a hard time.

generally stuff that has lots of shots or ignores cover is the only way to kill them. i wouldnt bet on getting them into combat much.

Daemons:
Pink Horrors
Soul Grinders
Fiends of Slaanesh

10 pink horrors (170 pts) will kill on average 7 or 8 lootas before cover saves, which if they don't break, cripples the squad's shooting anyway. (the return fire of 7 lootas will kill less than 2 of the horrors the next turn)

Fiends will eat lootas for breakfast if they get there, just land them ~20" from the lootas. Give the lootas an equally dire target, like the bloodcrushers about to smash apart your scoring mobs, or a Greater Daemon, then pop them on the 2nd turn charge. toast.


For sheer points effectiveness, I like Mortars (80 pts for 3). Rather easy to hide out of LOS (for 5e anyway), dropping 3 S4 small blasts. Best of all, you knock 4+ off with the first barrage, and they have to test for both pinning and morale. The ability to essentially ignore non-area terrain is rather nice as well. (I don't recall if lootas have a 6+ armour or not, no codex handy). Hellhounds w/ smoke are great too. 12" rush, pop smoke. 6" move, 24" template throw. g'night. Oh, if you don't have first turn, and aren't at least getting a cover save on your 'hound, you're bad. Or park it behind that AV14 russ for a turn, that'll keep it out of danger.

Plaguebearers might not kill them right away, but as long as they're tied up in close combat, they're not shooting.

The best option would be something coming on board close to them or dropping on them. Stormboys would be sweet as they could move up behind cover than hop over and whack em. Zagstruk would be perfect, drop down, shoot with pistols and then assault.

Lootas are fairly weak in CC, but more importantly they can't shoot when engaged. And with only seven moral, no more than fifteen models (and probably about ten), there are plenty of ways to take them out. Broodlord and friends. Raveners, Carnifex pie plate, hormagaunts are all good for nids. Leman Russ battle cannon, and Tau Hammerhead pie plate work well for me, since its a shootout beyond the looters range.

I originally tried to make a loota based ork list with the new codex until I found that they are inflexible and really presume a dumb-assed opponent with an army trapped in open fire lanes. Fast and mobile lists that deep strike in or otherwise come in from reserve usually have the means to tie the looters up and make them a liability rather than an asset.

Deepstriking templates should do the job as well. Space marines in drop pod with flamers.

OTG

If they're near the table edge, you can assault them with a sentinel. S3 vs AV10 means they're dead or tied up til the end of the game unless a powerklaw gets over to support them.

Very sang idea, but im thinking of dropping nurglings on them.

drop them into cover and charge in, 5 bases should hold them off for some time.
doesent matter if they die in 2-3 turns, your not getting shot at and nurglings cost pretty much nothing.

and for a unit small enough to get cover from a small rock it could work well.