Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have a 60 but never played through the Expansion. The old expansion. So I could play a Death Knight, presumably until the end of time. This would be opposed to say playing WAR. Heck I could pick up the expansion just to do the new stuff.

I am leaning towards ... no. On account of ... well on account of the fact I do not own a house. Besides I am playing Morrowind. But I _could_ play WoW. Basically, is it just that much fun.

No play WAR.

Not only is WoW boring, but if you don't have a secure home, you shouldn't be playing. Lots of people have lost everything because of WoW. Hell, children have died from neglect because their parents were addicted.

No, DON'T play it. Get a house and a steady income, and even then don't consider it.

"hmmm."

Note that I am actually the guy who voted Peer Pressure thus far.

wow is fun in moderation.
war is not fun.

of course these are my opinions.

why do you have to own a house to play wow?

I agree Play War, Unless you are a twelve year old slow then you fit the demographic to play WoW.

that's what they call those now, "twelve year old retards?" WAR sounds promising then. I was thinking the new Eve Online, too maybe.

Clthomps wrote:I agree Play War, Unless you are a twelve year old slow then you fit the demographic to play WoW.

or a douche bag, then you fit the demographic to play war.... your choice.

having played many MMO's over the past few years i would say none of them, i've tried WoW, WaR, EvE, Archlord etc etc the list goes on, i've tried to find one with a decent community me and my friends can engage in to play in an environment where we are all just playing for the fun of it and i have found all of them to be lacking, thanks to as usernamesareannoying points out the 'demographic' of the standard MMO player, thats not to say there are not a few good people that i have found to play with some have become close friends its just the rest of the community,

i also find the issue of grinding/farming/having to do the same quest over and over to get a piece of kit rather well boring, in games like the Final Fantasy series for example you do it, but not to the extent in MMOs and also when you reach that desired level to kill said boss you get advance the story along to find out what is happening to your characters next or where the story is going (if anyone has played FF7 you can understand the pain of Daemonsgate at the end of the temple of the ancients, prehaps the most annoying boss monster ever in that game i think) in MMOs you have none of that, and once you reach max level have done all the raids/dungeons/pvps got all the rewards after essentially a lifetime of play what do you get?...

nothing at all, no closure to the games story (MMOs have a story just not good ones) no end credits to give you a sense of achievement you just go and do the same things again and again

i may sound biased towards hating MMOs but they are just cash cows, Blizzard hasn't had to produce a decent game in years thanks to WoW and now they are finally bringout Diablo 3 i have some concerns on how the games going to play and i am also waiting for the "you must subscribe to battlenet to play online" etc etc...

it may sound like i have a hatred against MMOs i don't i used to love Guild Wars, but when my Guild had reached max level got all the equipment and skills we would need, what happened, we all got bored and wondered off because thier was nothing left to do in the game, still at least that one was free, it also had some interesting ideas such as the story quests and having no other PC other than those in your party in the game world once you had left a city, eve also has some good ideas such as the entirely player run economy and game world, still it grips me for a while then i get so far and wonder why do i do this and leave again.

Tacobike the decision is purely up to you, however i would say stick with Morrowind its a much better game, in fact so is anything by Bethesda

99MDeery - you hit the nail on the head.

as i said before, wow is fun in moderation. sometimes just running around killing things is fun but gets old which is why i take breaks.
trying new things and a few friends are what keep me in wow.

i think their trying to fix that sense of achievement you mentioned through their, ironically enough, achievement system. so far it doesn't do anything other than give you bragging rights for some hard crap but it's something.

have they? The manager of my local GW wasn't seen for a couple of days because of WOTLK, i personally hadn't looked at it at all, hmm an achievement system, wouldn't you consider that an attempt to rival the 360's popular achievement system, which also is essentially for bragging rights also, considering the amount of games i have people ask me why i don't have that many Gamerpoints etc, i play games (video games especially) for the story behind the game, sure great gameplay helps and pretty graphics help too, but its the story that draws me in the most.

to keep it on topic, lets take Morrowind as an example, i must confess i bought the game many years after it came out as up until then i was still playing Final Fantasy quite alot and was looking for a new RPG experience, it simply left me shocked, whilst the game had a story the most important thing that the game asked you to do was create the story yourself, a trend in all bethesda games, you play your character how you want and you make up your characters persona and judge for yourself how he fits into the world around the character, i have played it through a couple of times, being a mage, fighter, thief, wood elf, human, orc, bad, good etc the list goes on same for oblivion.

In MMOs you don't form a connection with the character as much as you do in a story driven game (hell i will admit it i cried when Aeries (i hope thats the right spelling) died in FF7 i have no shame admitting it i enjoyed the game that much). In an MMO i always found you don't its all about getting the next set of spells and the next set of armour or the newest shiniest weapon rinse and repeat every 5 or so levels, which as you said Usernames can be fun, but playing it constantly gets old real fast.

Its a shame as my most anticipated MMO was FF11 it was a shame it was well, lacking i think is the best term to use it was Final Fantasy just not as we know it same can go for FF12 which was a single player MMO...

anyway i am going to stop rambling now as i am starting to sound like Ethan from CAD lol

I've played both and liked both at some time:

WoW is a better game, especially if you haven't seen most of the content and want to play casually. Most people who hate WoW do so because they are burnt out or don't want to admit it's a superior product.

WAR is too new and was quickly becoming under populated when I played. It also gets boring quickly once it turns into a real grind. WAR is just as bad as WoW in PvP, so don't expect a superior PvP game. There are some things better than WoW, but the balance and newness offsets that currently.

The truth is the MMO market is stagnet currently and all the games suck. It really needs something new.

usernamesareannoying wrote:

Clthomps wrote:I agree Play War, Unless you are a twelve year old slow then you fit the demographic to play WoW.

or a douche bag, then you fit the demographic to play war.... your choice.

If by douche bag you mean something that was in your mother's smelly last night, then guilty as charged.



Seriously go to a friends house and try both and then choose for yourself, or save your money and start another army!

Looks like the Nos have it. I am getting warmed up to Morrowind anyway.

Clthomps wrote:

usernamesareannoying wrote:

Clthomps wrote:I agree Play War, Unless you are a twelve year old slow then you fit the demographic to play WoW.

or a douche bag, then you fit the demographic to play war.... your choice.

If by douche bag you mean something that was in your mother's smelly last night, then guilty as charged.



Seriously go to a friends house and try both and then choose for yourself, or save your money and start another army!

The MMO demographic at its finest ladies and gentlemen...

Indeed.

I cant help but to say that which ever game you pick, be sure to bring friends with you from real life.

I started WoW (europe servers) a bit after the "vanilla" started due to lots of my good friends playing it. I just ment to buy it, test it and see whats it all about - my beforehand experiences from mmos were limited. Others tended to level faster than me and when I was left alone with my low lvls I would stop playing.
Back when I started I just had gotten into a steady relationship and I was feeling the heat just from buying the game, let alone planning to play it. She never owned a comp and had played some silly nintendo games way back when as a kid, but had little knowledge of modern games.
After installation and watching me play some character to about lvl 4, she wanted to try. About an hour later she had made a character (with extremely well tought off hairdo) and started playing. She played nonstop to lvl 10 before I had to start begging her to stop it for a while.
I was forced not only to buy her an account but also her first computer. Finally we were set to play the game and with all my friends switching to a new server to play on, we were all lvl 1s and allrdy had a fairly large, around 10 people ring of players that knew eachother well in real life.

Here we are, about 4, 4 and a half years later - we are still playing. We would have stopped ages ago if we didnt have the posse and eachother to play with. There has been lots of new friends that started out as wow-relationships but that we got to meet in our little gatherings. All and all, I consider the majority of playerbase as people I dont want to play a single minute with (for example I never do random groups or battlegrounds) but now not only do I have allmost all of my best friends playing in the same guild with me, we also have alot of people abroad that we now consider a really important addition to our Finnish little community.

I tested War and had many of my friends testing it with me but it just didnt quite carry trough - If all of my community would change to War I would do it in a heartbeat but since that will never happen, we will be Nerubian Hunters from Al´akir for as long as it lasts.

I think to be honest Innom has just summed up the key reason for a lot of WoW's success. I too would have left a long time ago if I had not disbanded my own guild and merged with another called Flea Circus. Through that guild I have a reason to play, I have fun, we all get on, we go in BG's and raids together, and its just a fun casual guild.

The social aspect for alot of folks seems much more important that the actual raiding. In fact another lot of my friends from back down in Cornwall tried to go the serious raiding route with their Horde Guild on another server and have fallen out of the game a year later. As soon as it feels like a job, its time to leave.

For me though, I am having fun with friends.

If we are talking about Final Fantasy and pain, in light of the subject, FFXI would be more appropriate. Getting Sea/Sky access, fisghting Fenrir (Prime), Diabolos(Prime), or any other number of bosses is a serious strategic undertaking. Someday I'll defeat the Divine Might quest...someday. *sigh*.

If you are looking for decent PvE, not PvP/RvR, you might consider Lord of the Rings Online. It has a pretty tight-knit community and is easy to get into. It just had it's Mines of Moria expansion released. It is fairly pretty and if you can run the High Resolution textures and other settings on high it is beautiful.

Also, stop fighting over WoW vs WAR. Might as well argue Chocolate Vesus Vanilla. Different tastes, ect ect. If it doesn't stop I will order my Horn Squig to chase you down!

Play EQ2

< Over & Out >

What's the point of an MMO? Cash cow? Not quite.

There are a lot of different reasons. A big aspect that I think you missed, 99MDeery, is the social side of the game. Sure, Final Fantasy 7 has a progressive storyline, but can you play it with all of your friends and an assortment of random people? No. Not at all. Sure, Final Fantasy 7 is great, but it's not exactly social. In fact, quite the opposite. Sitting on your arse all day with friends (albeit in a chatroom kind of setting) is a lot better than sitting on your arse all day alone, story or no story.

Another huge aspect of MMOs, at least, in my opinion, is the ability to sculpt your own unique character. Even if WoW is a terrible example of this, the customization in WoW still tops a classic "RPG" hands down. A Final Fantasy forces you along the path of a bunch of pre-made characters, which is all fine and good, but I think a lot of people who play MMOs play them at least, in part, because of their ability to make their experience "Their own". A great example of this is CoH/CoV. I can't tell you how much time I've spent simply messing around with the character creator to create something completely unique and awesome.

The leveling systems in most MMOs (Sans WoW. Pfft. Talents. Big deal.) also allow you to create a unique character and a gaming experience that's at least a little bit different from your classic RPG. Again, this kind of instills a bit of pride in playing through the game, as it's "your" game, nobody else's.

Some people (Especially WoW endgame raiders. Heheh) play MMOs simply because they like being the best at something, and an MMO (seemingly) gives you an opportunity to do that, wether it be through raiding for the best armor in the game or Min/Maxing or Twinking your character. It might seem sad to some people, but hey, honestly, when have you actually had the opportunity in your life to be the absolute BEST at anything? Really? MMOs give you a chance to do that. More than most anything else, at least.

Though this isn't an option you have in all MMOs, some people play them simply because they enjoy creating and being part of a community. Again, this might be a little sad to some, but when in your life do you get to single-handedly create your own city? Seriously?

I think that should help you see why people still choose to play MMOs, even through the "What's the point in an endless game?" atmosphere. Actually, look at it this way. You get to the endgame. You have all the best of everything the game has to offer, you've maxed out all your skills, etc. What's the point? Well, you get to the end of a game with an ending, then what's the point in that? You have absolutely nothing to show for all the time you just spent, alone, except for a memory of an ending cutscene. Woohoo. Go read a book. At least in an MMO, you're still having some kind of impact on a living breathing world, even if you only exist in absolute endgame just to help people. That's worth more than a cutscene. To me, at least.

Maybe not to you. But to each his own.

Also, I'll stand against WoW as much as I damn well please, not because "It's a superior product", but because it just may be the most cliche game ever made, in the history of gaming. Seriously. I'm not denying the fact that it's very well made, but I find it very sad that people are basically playing an EverQuest with really good production values and not even realizing it. It is really too bad that so many people started with WoW, and haven't really had the force of will to branch out and try an MMO that's radically different (Or at least a LITTLE different). Trust me, it can be much more enjoyable. And I seriously doubt that WoW really quite caters to anyone's "niche".

Play it if you really want to, but hey, it's your money. I just suggest maybe trying something new. Who knows, you might love it more than you will ever love WoW. It all just depends what your real interests are.

And this is coming from someone who has played seriously every pay-to-play MMO besides Tabula Rasa. Ever.

Chryas:

Matrix Online?

Why did you come here for this advice? This group is biased. Of course they want you to play their struggling MMO because they play it. This is a warhammer forum. Try asking a different group of people.

I used to. Power-leveled a character up to 50 and had a guild that literally gave me anything that I wanted for free, so I got bored, naturally.

That was before they changed the combat system. Now I don't even know if I could stand it.

Typeline: A person can like both WoW and WAR. There are also folks in the thread
who don't recommend WAR.

Asking in the WAR forums would yield a more biased result...

Typeline wrote:Why did you come here for this advice? This group is biased. Of course they want you to play their struggling MMO because they play it. This is a warhammer forum. Try asking a different group of people.

ah, but this MY Warhammer forum, and I myself am biased towards Warhammer.

Since the malfred-Felix deigned to comment, I am skipping out on WoW, much as I would like to play, mostly because I am always disapointed by the lack of comraderie. *shrug*. Mind you, it is my own fault I do not play enough.

I might get into it anyway, but not at the present time. I mean I have not "finished," it so to speak. I have not done the expansion nor the Plaguelands either for that matter. Nor a couple of other areas.

What's the point of an MMO? Cash cow? Not quite.

that i never said, but that is beside the point,

Chrysoar, you make some very good points as to why people play MMOs i myself have been apart of that kind of community many times before now, and i agree that you can make the experience 'your own' as you say, but in most MMOs WoW being a prime example in some respects yes every characters different, however their are only so many variations of armor and weapons choices before a mage kitted out for Frost magic is essentially the same

more so i thank you for putting your views across as it gives this argument the side that i had missed, and it simply boils down to what do you prefer? Their is no definite answer as some people are stuck in the MMO mindset and others simply can't get into, maybe i have been spoiled by Japanese Console RPGs but ive made my choice of game you have made yours, its simply personal taste

and also, in regards to playing games like FF7 alone, 5 people, one weekend, 5 crates of beer, and final fantasy 7/oblivion/Fallout 3, they were some damn good weekends

As I said, to each his own.

I can understand why you would enjoy an interactive story, but I absolutely love customization in videogames. It makes the game feel more worthwhile, and so I'm willing to give up a great story in order to have something that I can consider my own.

Fallout 3? Best game of 2008. Oblivion? Best game since, well, Morrowind. CoD 4? Genius. I almost wouldn't play an FPS any other way after experiencing the perk system. Even Soul Calibur IV? Even if it lacks any technical progression, the character creator is quite possibly the most in-depth I've ever seen, which makes it the best fighting game I've played since Tekken 3 back in the day.

So yeah, I'm a stickler for customization. So much so that it overrides my need to have a good storyline to hold my attention.

And I definetly wasn't parading WoW around as having the best customization (In fact, it probably has the worst since, well...ever?). The class system sucks. Everyone has to fill an exact niche and take the exact same talents as everyone else in order to even find a group. The character creation is just sad. And the appearance of the armor itself makes you look like a damn bag of skittles.

I had more in mind the (old) Star Wars Galaxies, wherein you could be any combination of classes that you wanted, and not lose any sense of progression. Want to be a bounty hunter that masquerades as a musician until that unlucky jedi happens to stumble into your cantina? You bet. A smuggler that builds droids and is a master martial artist? Why not? Damn, you can even be an architect and a politician in order to build and run your own player city, on top of having any other skills you please. It was the best class system in any game, in my opinion. Nothing has even come close to it since The Matrix Online, and that was even a sad comparison. Not to mention that the character creator itself was the best for it's time, and I think the first game to use sliders for facial deformation and such, to create something completely unique if you wanted to. It's too bad Sony Online completely bombed it with the Combat Upgrade, because it was probably my favorite game of all time. Besides the Silent Hill series. But that's a different story completely (Hahah story based single-player games FTW!).

And then there's City of Heroes and City of Villains. The greatest character creator of all time, which allows you to create nearly anything you can think of (that's at least relatively in the shape of a human), and it's fairly simple to use. You can spend as much or as little time on it as you wish, though I find that the more time you spend, the more attatched you become to your character. It doesn't even necessarily have to fit the "superhero" archetype at all. The class system allows you to be unique without completely alienating you from being a viable option in any group (Min/Maxing is hardly even a problem at all in this game. As is the whole "phat lewt" obsession, as there isn't any uber armor or weaponry to fool around with, and everyone in a group gets the same exact enhancements and inspirations). The missions are actually somewhat interesting, enough to hold your attention and kind of care about what's going on. More than you can say for any other MMO, though they don't exactly have the quality writing of, say, a Final Fantasy. The only problem with this game is that it is very combat-centric, and the whole "community" and "item-building" aspects are very tacked on, probably because the developer, Cryptic Studios, sold the license to make Champions Online (w00t!). It suits the game though, so I can't really complain about it.

But I'll go ahead and say it again. To each his own.

I loved the City of Heroes/Villains power upgrade system. It was so much fun. I quit, however,
because I wasn't very good at choosing Supergroups and my gameplay times can be erratic. Since
I couldn't get any RL friends to play, I quit.

I still love the concept, but the game is such a grind to run as a solo.

I think it's still a bit more bearable to run solo than any other MMO. Not only are you single-handedly taking down huge masses of enemies, CoH is very action-oriented. It's extremely fun to watch an enemy choose an escape route (say, to jump up to some powerlines and run along them until they find a roof they can leap to) to try to prevent you from killing them, or to kick an enemy off the roof of a building and watch them ragdoll-fall down five stories. The combat system does a really good job of keeping you engaged and on your toes, as you don't simply just walk up to an enemy, click attack, and wait for your mana/energy/etc. to recharge so you can use another ability. It keeps you thinking, and in a state of constant vigilance.

We should totally start a CoV Dakka Guild. That would totally get me back into the game.

I just realized that you can (Kind of) create an Ork with powerfists. I say we create an Orky-themed Dakka guild in CoV!

Who's with me?!

Hahah.