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I've been seeing a lot of references to the Multimelta being THE Heavy Weapon of choice for Tac Squads.

Aside from the benefit of the 'melta' rule, is there another reason why it is now considered the choice to take?

If you have the tactical squad in a drop pod or rhino then yes, it can work. I prefer mobile multi-meltas, such as attack bikes and landspeeders.

Basically armor is harder to destroy now and melta weapons are +1 on the table and have 2d6 AP.

G

Multimelta are:

1. Tank-killers, who can even kill on a glance.

2. Character Killers (if it weren't for eternal warrior being handed out like rending was last edition, that is.)

3. Reward aggressive early movement to take objectives (try getting a tank near an objective that has a multi-melta sitting on it)

4. are free with 10 man tac squads.

What's not to like?

Well, not a lot, apparently!

Plus, they look cool...

Wish they still had a template and the lower setting/Heavy Flamer option, though now I'm showing my age...

They should be twin linked since they are double barrelled.

G

The 2D6 armor pen is a bonus but mainly is for the +1 on the damage chart.

Its all about being able to destroy even on a glancing 6

I find 5 point plasma cannons to be much more useful.

You can take a meltagun and a plasma cannon in a single unit. Meltaguns are assault vs. heavy for PC.
I usually combat squad them and stick the assault half in a rhino and zip around the battle field popping vehicles with the meltagun while the PC sits back and 1) defends an objective, 2) supports other units, 3) sets up cross-fires and 4) as secondary to pop vehicles and other tougher nuts to crack.

Theoretically, MM's work on tac squads now because of the "combat tactics" rule.

After you're done moving the weapon into a threatening position several things will/can happen to the squad.

Enemy might get close and fire at you...if you take 3 casualties (and if he intends to charge the unit) you can CHOOSE to fall back, hopefully out of charging range but well within melta range...maybe within 12" if you're lucky.

If they dont fire at you, and charge instead, anytime you lose the combat you can CHOOSE once again to fall back. Again, it will be time to shoot since you auto rally thanx to ATSKNF.

Basically, the tac squad is a shooter, equip them with a close range MM and throw them toward the danger, falling back when appropriate.

Certainly savvy players may be able to take advantage, keeping you from rallying with careful positioning of troops/vehicles, but its just another little tool that the marines have to exploit. The key here is that you get to choose to fall back, then with your auto-rally ability, it creates a VERY reliable little tool for maneuvering that noone else has. Sometimes, when equipped with a MM this can be deadly.

A familiar little scenario that Marine players used to hate.....

Dreadnought charges 10 man tac squad, tac squad refuses to break due to constant passing of morale checks despite your wishes to break from combat(sometimes rites of battle sucks)....tac squad finally after several turns is killed by the dreadnought. A slow agonising frustrating death.

NOW, with the advent of 5e it goes like this.

Dreadnought charges 10 man squad that got too close to enemy due to the range of its heavy weapon, a Multi-Melta. Dreadnought kills 1, tac squad does nothing to dread....they CHOOSE to break from combat and fall back 9-10", dreadnought rolls consolidation and fails to consolidate within 6" of squad in order to keep them from rallying at the beginning of the marine turn. Unit rally's and lets the dreadnought have it at 11" away with its MM, a melta at max range, and (what the heck) a bolter-melta from the sarge. MM easily penetrates as its within 1/2 range. Pen +1 against dread.

Certainly you can guard against this sort of thing happening to your dread....but its something you can do, something you can exploit and sometimes it will work or you'll be able to pull it off. If you see no way to rally after your fallback, obviously you wont CHOOSE to break, but whatever.

This is simply one of the reasons you're seeing MM's on tac squads now. They can get up and personal, get charged and almost leave combat on a whim so long as they lose. Combine that with an Auto rally and you have some serious tools to work with. (a big reason why CC weapons are not necessarily a better choice than a simple combi-weapon anymore, in some cases you dont even WANT a CC weapon on your Vet sarge) With a unit that close its obvious what the benefits of a MM are in the unit. Combat tactics makes you able to operate with a shooty unit even whilst the threat of Hand to Hand is closeby.

Nice splainin and summary Deadshane.

Why thank you sir!

Or if you're a Salamander player, you give up combat tactics for twin-linked MMs. They are pretty sweet with the re-rolls. However the various uses of combat tactics is nice as well, wish you could have both.

I think the other heavy weapons are viable too. It really comes down to the army build -- if it is designed for shorter ranged firefights then MM's are the way to go. More stand and shoot then PCs or MLs are more viable.

If the five man squad with the MM is charged by a half decent cc squad there might not being anyone left to fire.

G

You need a 10 man squad to get a MM in the squad....

...and killing 10 space marines in combat is no small feat even for some dedicated HtH units.

Deadshane1 wrote:
Dreadnought charges 10 man squad that got too close to enemy due to the range of its heavy weapon, a Multi-Melta. Dreadnought kills 1, tac squad does nothing to dread....they CHOOSE to break from combat and fall back 9-10", dreadnought rolls consolidation and fails to consolidate within 6" of squad in order to keep them from rallying at the beginning of the marine turn. Unit rally's and lets the dreadnought have it at 11" away with its MM, a melta at max range, and (what the heck) a bolter-melta from the sarge. MM easily penetrates as its within 1/2 range. Pen +1 against dread.

Page 46
"Regrouping

..
Once a unit has regrouped... For example, it can shoot (though it always counts as moving on the turn it regroups) or run...."


Cool tactic, but it doesn't work with the falling back unfortunately. Once they regroup, they still count as moving and thus can't fire heavy weapons. Works great for meltaguns though.

MMs are still the best choice. They're free with a 10 man, and unless you're sitting around on your own tableedge lobbing shots you may as well go for the MM. If you're drop-podding your tacticals, or charging them forward in rhinos, you're not going to find too many occasions to use those heavy weapons, since you're always going to be moving. On those occasions where you are, you need to think about what you're wanting that shot to do. From my experience, anytime I find myself really wanting that heavy weapon I'm shooting at a tank. Since I drop pod, and are therefore super close to the enemy anyways, I'd rather have a MM over a lascannon anyways. Once you throw in the points difference, there's no reason to even consider the lascannon.

If you're running a more static army, then other options may be more attractive. Same goes if you're tailoring your list against a specific enemy (i would rather have plasma cannons against a deathwing army for example, or HBs vs horde). However with an aggressive army, MM is the way to go. Now if only those damned devastator boxed sets came with more than one of them! grrrr

forgot to add, if you have vulkan in your army it's MM all the way

I just wish I could replace that MM with a heavy flamer

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:
Dreadnought charges 10 man squad that got too close to enemy due to the range of its heavy weapon, a Multi-Melta. Dreadnought kills 1, tac squad does nothing to dread....they CHOOSE to break from combat and fall back 9-10", dreadnought rolls consolidation and fails to consolidate within 6" of squad in order to keep them from rallying at the beginning of the marine turn. Unit rally's and lets the dreadnought have it at 11" away with its MM, a melta at max range, and (what the heck) a bolter-melta from the sarge. MM easily penetrates as its within 1/2 range. Pen +1 against dread.

Page 46
"Regrouping

..
Once a unit has regrouped... For example, it can shoot (though it always counts as moving on the turn it regroups) or run...."


Cool tactic, but it doesn't work with the falling back unfortunately. Once they regroup, they still count as moving and thus can't fire heavy weapons. Works great for meltaguns though.

MMs are still the best choice. They're free with a 10 man, and unless you're sitting around on your own tableedge lobbing shots you may as well go for the MM. If you're drop-podding your tacticals, or charging them forward in rhinos, you're not going to find too many occasions to use those heavy weapons, since you're always going to be moving. On those occasions where you are, you need to think about what you're wanting that shot to do. From my experience, anytime I find myself really wanting that heavy weapon I'm shooting at a tank. Since I drop pod, and are therefore super close to the enemy anyways, I'd rather have a MM over a lascannon anyways. Once you throw in the points difference, there's no reason to even consider the lascannon.

If you're running a more static army, then other options may be more attractive. Same goes if you're tailoring your list against a specific enemy (i would rather have plasma cannons against a deathwing army for example, or HBs vs horde). However with an aggressive army, MM is the way to go. Now if only those damned devastator boxed sets came with more than one of them! grrrr

That would be an excellent point if the Space Marine codex didn't give marines "And they shall know no fear" which lets them ignore counting as having moved after they automatically rally. Other than that, you're dead on.

Really the only flaws in the plan are...

a) Fall back distance. You're much more likely to roll 7" than 9-10". And with the enemy Consolidating 1d6" closer, they're probably going to be within 6" of you at the start of your turn, forcing the marines to not rally and keep falling back.

b) Just not escaping from the Sweep in the first place. I4 is good, but the Dread just needs to equal or beat your d6 roll to keep you stuck there and make you take a couple of No Retreat saves.

In theory it's pretty darn cool, and in practice it will work occasionally, but it's not exactly reliable.

Excuse me, I thought you were advocating combat squads.

G

Deadshane1 wrote:You need a 10 man squad to get a MM in the squad....

...and killing 10 space marines in combat is no small feat even for some dedicated HtH units.

No, not really, I'd rather keep my guys together in almost all cases. 5+ objectives may necessitate combat squadding.

Grimaldi wrote:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:
Dreadnought charges 10 man squad that got too close to enemy due to the range of its heavy weapon, a Multi-Melta. Dreadnought kills 1, tac squad does nothing to dread....they CHOOSE to break from combat and fall back 9-10", dreadnought rolls consolidation and fails to consolidate within 6" of squad in order to keep them from rallying at the beginning of the marine turn. Unit rally's and lets the dreadnought have it at 11" away with its MM, a melta at max range, and (what the heck) a bolter-melta from the sarge. MM easily penetrates as its within 1/2 range. Pen +1 against dread.

Page 46
"Regrouping

..
Once a unit has regrouped... For example, it can shoot (though it always counts as moving on the turn it regroups) or run...."


Cool tactic, but it doesn't work with the falling back unfortunately. Once they regroup, they still count as moving and thus can't fire heavy weapons. Works great for meltaguns though.

MMs are still the best choice. They're free with a 10 man, and unless you're sitting around on your own tableedge lobbing shots you may as well go for the MM. If you're drop-podding your tacticals, or charging them forward in rhinos, you're not going to find too many occasions to use those heavy weapons, since you're always going to be moving. On those occasions where you are, you need to think about what you're wanting that shot to do. From my experience, anytime I find myself really wanting that heavy weapon I'm shooting at a tank. Since I drop pod, and are therefore super close to the enemy anyways, I'd rather have a MM over a lascannon anyways. Once you throw in the points difference, there's no reason to even consider the lascannon.

If you're running a more static army, then other options may be more attractive. Same goes if you're tailoring your list against a specific enemy (i would rather have plasma cannons against a deathwing army for example, or HBs vs horde). However with an aggressive army, MM is the way to go. Now if only those damned devastator boxed sets came with more than one of them! grrrr

That would be an excellent point if the Space Marine codex didn't give marines "And they shall know no fear" which lets them ignore counting as having moved after they automatically rally. Other than that, you're dead on.

Durnit! You got to him before I did.

Yes! Another fool doubts my rulelawyering ability and falls before my evil powers! Muahahaha!

I have never split my 10 man squads into combat squads. It seems to work as well.

G

I find that plasma cannons are a better choice for Tactical Marines than multi-meltas. With plasma cannons you can use a Combat Squad and start firing right from turn one, letting you set the tempo immediately. With the multi-melta, you'll have to use one or more turns to maneuver the multi-melta in position. While a Rhino can make this task easier, the multi-melta still serves as an inefficient weapon.

I much prefer Attack Bikes to deliver multi-meltas. A unit of three comes in at only 150 points and have the maneuverability to eliminate tanks swiftly. Being able to still move 12" and fire those blasts is far better.

The main appeal of the MM in Tac squads is the cost imo.

Now that Lascannons are at a premium, MM gives SM players a good anti tank punch and also at an unbeatable price (read: free!).

Combine that with Combat Squads and you can literally have it both ways, a mobile meltagun element and a static MM firebase. One sits on your objective(s) while the other hunters the other objective(s).

And the +1 on to the damage is awesome


But MM on mobile units (bikes, speeders) are nuts.

Green Blow Fly wrote:They should be twin linked since they are double barrelled.

G

That's exactly why my dreadnought's Multi-Metla looks like this:

Valhallan42nd wrote:Multimelta are:

1. Tank-killers, who can even kill on a glance.

2. Character Killers (if it weren't for eternal warrior being handed out like rending was last edition, that is.)

3. Reward aggressive early movement to take objectives (try getting a tank near an objective that has a multi-melta sitting on it)

4. are free with 10 man tac squads.

What's not to like?

Right. But the problem is their short range.
A smart, mobile enemy will find ways to circumvent multimeltas.

If an enemy wants to cede a 24" diameter sphere of the board to a single unit then the weapon has certainly earned its points just in area denial.

Or just smoke that unit with concentrated fire. Lascannons are 10 pts now, no reason not to take them for dedicated tank hunting. MM are dandy, but they'd work better on a relentless unit. I personally prefer a mix of Missile Launchers for multi-tasking and Lascannons for tanks/Heavy Bolters for infantry.

Armies in my group tend to revolve around at 36"+ ranged destruction, or have 18"+ CC death. So 24" doesn't really cut it, let alone the 12" melta spot.

While the MM is very powerful the range is definitely a limitation.

G

Multimeltas in a large number of SM units could work. MM just don't really cut it independantly, en masse all tank heavy armies will fear you.

Meltas in general is a good tactic. Space Marines have various means of mounting them on platforms, which gets rid of the need for squads that sit and shoot.

G