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I'll prolly take this to at least one event, definatly the championship at Adepticon, most likely Vegas unless I can finish up a marine list I'm working on.

HQ

Brother Captain w/psycannon, Sacred Incense

ELITE

(7)Grey Knight Terminators-Psycannon, 2xTH/SS
-Brother captain with Psycannon

TROOPS

(6)PAGK
Justicar w/targetter, Psycannon bolts

(6)PAGK
Justicar w/targetter, Psycannon bolts

(6)PAGK
Justicar w/tergetter, Psycannon bolts, Holy Relic

HEAVY

Land Raider w/Smoke, Dozer Blade
Land Raider w/Smoke, Dozer Blade
Land Raider w/Smoke

=1850

Basically I run this as a shooty list. Mounting the LR's to get into CC isnt the plan unless I'm up against someone like Tau or Guard, even then, I hope for shrouding to keep me safe to soften them up a bit for the most part.

Targetters allow me to make sure of range so that I'm always firing at maximum range....PAGK especially estimate range to keep the terminators safe. Sticking to around 32-35" away if possible, good chance of failing shrouding ranges at that distance.

Nob bikers? I dont plan on being on the TOP top tables so hopefully I can avoid them. If not...well...Pure Grey Knights dont have much they can do about THAT friggin list...but if the guy is careless (and I have some good lascannon shooting against them) Maybe the Holy Relic and STR 6 CC can clobber them....I'd rather simply avoid them however. If they have only one unit....THAT wont be so much a problem.

Looks like not a bad list. Hammerhand on the Brother Captain, if he can take it gives you more S8 alongside the Thunderhammers for anti-vehicle work. Anti-Nobz too, for that matter although they lose their FNP to the Power Weapon anyway.

I would drop a raider and get 2 5 man termie squads and put thme in the raiders as counter charge. You can shoot with them in them in the begining and dash forward if need be. And you still have the option to put grey knights in a land raider for scoring land raider goodness.

With the left over points maybe a 4th grey knight unit?

Tacobake wrote:Looks like not a bad list. Hammerhand on the Brother Captain, if he can take it gives you more S8 alongside the Thunderhammers for anti-vehicle work. Anti-Nobz too, for that matter although they lose their FNP to the Power Weapon anyway.

Hammerhand is always in the back of my mind to pick up for hero's, but the thing is, I never seem to need it. STR 6 power weapon is great against bikers and str8 is garbage against armour 14 but not much better than str 6 against rear armour. Still...I may playtest a couple of times with it.

yermom wrote:I would drop a raider and get 2 5 man termie squads and put thme in the raiders as counter charge. You can shoot with them in them in the begining and dash forward if need be. And you still have the option to put grey knights in a land raider for scoring land raider goodness.

With the left over points maybe a 4th grey knight unit?

I think this termie unit of 7 is pretty good. (better for kill point missions too!) The 3rd LR is crucial as well. 6 lascannons is my only anti-armour...no melta here So I need lots of LC's that are almost guaranteed hits. 3LR's puts just the right amount of cheese in the army that LR haters might hate, but "hey! It's only a Grey Knight army!"

Terminators already suck up tons of points, I'd hate to put more points into them, especially another unit that could give up another kill point. I rather like having a single hard to reach unit blasting away until you get close (and have been softened up) when they finally get into CC.

Hammerhand is always in the back of my mind to pick up for hero's, but the thing is, I never seem to need it. STR 6 power weapon is great against bikers and str8 is garbage against armour 14 but not much better than str 6 against rear armour. Still...I may playtest a couple of times with it.

Same school of thought here. Hitting rear armor in 5th makes Hammerhand inconsequential. Another thing to consider is the Crusader. Strange thing is the Crusader has been more effective for me than a regular Landraider at hunting opposing armor.

Shane it would be a hoot if I showed up with my all stars and we got paired up the first round. You would have the opportunity to prove you are right about them.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Shane it would be a hoot if I showed up with my all stars and we got paired up the first round. You would have the opportunity to prove you are right about them.

G

Lets attempt to not start all that up again.

Why do you add an additional brother captain to the list?

The 91pt psycannon doesn't seem like value when he loses the retinue rule (and as such, can be targeted in close combat. Although, you could argue that doesn't matter much being a 1 wound model).

If you dropped him, dropped a terminator or two, you could really bulk out each of your PAGK squads. Would this be advantagous? Or are additional PAGK of no benefit for their role in the force?

Shane what do you feel are the toughest builds for you to face off against? I have found dark eldar to be a big pain against my mech armies. The dark lances really hurt.

G

Nob bikers you just need to tank shock over and over again...

That would be a decent tactic with 3x LR but the boss has a S10 attack. While it might be better to let an LR roll through rather than taking the chance of losing a boss to Death or Glory if push came to shove the auto hit with S10 has a good chance of stopping the mech behemoth in it's tracks.

I am not sure if Orks have access to an AP1 melta type weapon such as a combi gun but if they do that would be the best bet to stop an LR tank shock.

G

Lurker wrote:Why do you add an additional brother captain to the list?

The 91pt psycannon doesn't seem like value when he loses the retinue rule (and as such, can be targeted in close combat. Although, you could argue that doesn't matter much being a 1 wound model).

If you dropped him, dropped a terminator or two, you could really bulk out each of your PAGK squads. Would this be advantagous? Or are additional PAGK of no benefit for their role in the force?

The 91 pt brother Captain is cheap enough for some creative applications if you need him.

Enemy has a basilisk that you need to be rid of and are rather afraid of? He deepstrikes in alone and fires his psycannon into side or rear armour. May not do anything, but he's cheap enough to risk it without endangering your force or changing your battle plan.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Shane what do you feel are the toughest builds for you to face off against? I have found dark eldar to be a big pain against my mech armies. The dark lances really hurt.

G

With Grey Knights there are RARELY armies you can walk all over. They're all tough assuming the general is skilled. If you're familiar with water warrior (or as someone put it, adaptive) tactics, you've got a game for just about anyone. The problem with Water Warrior tactics is actually sticking to the plan.

I dont think I can stop duel Nob Biker lists...I'm hoping to avoid them. I think its the worst matchup, and I know the playing feild will be rife with them next year, but I wanna play these guys anyway to see how well I do.

Green Blow Fly wrote:That would be a decent tactic with 3x LR but the boss has a S10 attack. While it might be better to let an LR roll through rather than taking the chance of losing a boss to Death or Glory if push came to shove the auto hit with S10 has a good chance of stopping the mech behemoth in it's tracks.

I am not sure if Orks have access to an AP1 melta type weapon such as a combi gun but if they do that would be the best bet to stop an LR tank shock.

G

Give your LR extra armor. He needs a 4 to glance, so 50% of the time he will die. Then he needs a 6 to stop you if he glances Odds are pretty bad here for the boss.

33% of the time he will pen and then he has only a 50% chance to stop you also. Most likely the boss will die, the unit will be weaker and you will successfully tankshock the unit.

And the Thunderhammers on the 2 Termies? Stun a MC and nemesis it to death before it strikes again next turn?

@ fry

That's why I said a melta is better if Oris have access to them. I can do the math... But thanks anyways.

G

I just finished my 2 Dozer blades on the LR's and they look friggin' awesome!!!!

Its definatly the best 'conversion' job I've ever done to a model.

Full size dozer blades that swing up and over the tank in order for models to charge out of the front. All you need are clippers, hobby drill (or dremel), 1 pack of 'Gale force Nine" plasticard (or equivalent), a wire hanger, Zap-a-gap and some zip-kicker (makes the connections look welded!)

I'll see if I can get some pics up tonight, I'm not much for posting modelling pics but these should be inspected.....

Sounds very hard core! That is part of what the hobby is all about.

G

When you say Land Raider, are you referring to the GK psycannon LR or just a regular one?

Hey deathshane! I would love to see your dozer blades, i've toyed with the idea alot.
Onto your List.
HQ
You might want a Pyschic hood, it'll help protect you even further against Lash.
You also might want to consider Hammerhand for walkers.
Troops
Pyscannon bolts are really cool, but jumping out the LR and burning Eldar with Incinerators is much more fun! It'll also help punch through enemies that are low armoured but better in close combat i.e. Harlequins, Genestealers.
I'd also add a frag grenade for good measure.
Heavy Support
Extra armour is cool too, it'll throw all the enemies "can't move next turn" results down the pan.

Remember Holy Relic can be used if you didn't move, which means the enemy is taking the iniative away from you (not literally)
I do like Holy Relic but I prefer taking the iniative and making use of Incinerators and generally having more control of the game.

Also competitively jumping inside the LR can stop Lash, Harlequin death, Oblit Death and possibly Nob Biker death.

Last thing, do you think 8 GKT are enough to deny someone an objective?

Also maybe you can work on that point, "If they have only one unit....THAT wont be so much a problem." I.e. Bait, Isolate (mind pun)
Either way bearing in mind 2 Nob Biker squads? You will be able to outmanuvere with at least one LR (if he bunches)

I haven't been to a Grand tournament before so do pardon me if you view my points newbish, i'll be going to one 2009 hopefully!
Anyway sorry for the ramble, Good Luck!

captain.gordino wrote:When you say Land Raider, are you referring to the GK psycannon LR or just a regular one?

This is a tournement list, so forgeworld isnt really included. I'm using the regular LR.

storm knight wrote:Hey deathshane! I would love to see your dozer blades, i've toyed with the idea alot.
Onto your List.
HQ
You might want a Pyschic hood, it'll help protect you even further against Lash.

Don't really need psychic hoods against lash when you have Aegis. Might be useful against other psychics however....its still something I'm considering.

You also might want to consider Hammerhand for walkers.

As I mentioned above, I've never felt that I was missing it with the new rules to attack vehicles....and since most monstrous creatures are affected often enough by nemesis weapons (which have the added bonus of being a power weapon on terminators) I havent felt like I've missed out on much.

Troops
Pyscannon bolts are really cool, but jumping out the LR and burning Eldar with Incinerators is much more fun! It'll also help punch through enemies that are low armoured but better in close combat i.e. Harlequins, Genestealers.

I do my best to maintain distance. I avoid scrapping nemesis weapons, stormbolters, and true grit for special weapons...especially since you pay out the nose to do so.

I'd also add a frag grenade for good measure.

Not so helpful when you're getting charged....I dont engage in hth unless I absolutely HAVE to. I usually dont charge since there is rarely any bonus to doing so with Grey Knights. Sure you can deny an enemy +1 attack by charging him first, but oftentimes this includes moving forward toward his forces, often putting yourself within charge range of his secondary charge or reinforcements. I prefer to GET charged, having his forward assault reach out to kill me...extending themselves beyond the support of troops behind....then I can counterattack an assault already underway...perhaps within terrain. For this you dont need frag grenades. Targetters are still useful though using these sort of tactics, and for the same points.

Heavy Support
Extra armour is cool too, it'll throw all the enemies "can't move next turn" results down the pan.

So does machine spirit....and for free!

Remember Holy Relic can be used if you didn't move, which means the enemy is taking the iniative away from you (not literally)
I do like Holy Relic but I prefer taking the iniative and making use of Incinerators and generally having more control of the game.

The reason I put it with a PAGK squad is so that the best assaulters in my army (the terminators) CAN charge using its benefits. It's fabulous when GETTING charged as well. Also, as I pointed out above, takeing the initiative against me the way I play these guys isnt always all its cracked up to be, Holy Relic assists in that.

Last thing, do you think 8 GKT are enough to deny someone an objective?

If you're lucky, with good maneuvering, 8 GKT can deny someone THREE objectives.....

Also maybe you can work on that point, "If they have only one unit....THAT wont be so much a problem." I.e. Bait, Isolate (mind pun)
Either way bearing in mind 2 Nob Biker squads? You will be able to outmanuvere with at least one LR (if he bunches)

Nob Biker armies remain a problem regardless, its understandable. They're the flavor of the {whatever} right now, argueably the strongest army build out right now. I dont expect to spank them.

I haven't been to a Grand tournament before so do pardon me if you view my points newbish, i'll be going to one 2009 hopefully!
Anyway sorry for the ramble, Good Luck!

Not at all, discussion such as this give people Ideas on how to play grey knights, you often have to think "outside the box" to get it right. It's not a normal army with normal STR's and weaknesses. You gotta think about what you're doing moreso than other lists. Incinerators might be able to blast a unit of harlequins dead, but if its only a 6 man unit, and your grey knights are a 8 man unit with two incinerators, you'll come out on the losing end after his counterattack wipes out your 8 Hard-to-come-by Grey Knights.

I've always thought that you need to kill as many troops as possible without reprisals with the Grey Knight army. Even if you can kill only 4 space marines out of a tac squad by shooting from a safe position, its better to do that then wipe them out but put your own troopers in danger.

I would try to split the termie squad into two squads of 4 with two psycannons each, fits in with the water theme, and gives you alot more dakka.

It does, however, offer up one more KP. I'm thinkin' the Holy Relic doesn't really help you all that much on this list, but Hammerhand would let you punk a dread or soulgrinder before getting pinched.

whitedragon wrote:I would try to split the termie squad into two squads of 4 with two psycannons each, fits in with the water theme, and gives you alot more dakka.

It does, however, offer up one more KP. I'm thinkin' the Holy Relic doesn't really help you all that much on this list, but Hammerhand would let you punk a dread or soulgrinder before getting pinched.

After having a game yesterday, and killing 45 Necron warriors DEAD without WBB rolls even WITH an Orb Lord closeby, no way.

The Relic Stays.

(popped holy relic, enhancing terminators and two squads within LR's. Terminators make it to combat a squad between two others while two LR mounted PAGK squads connect two other large units within the combat. Terminators assault with 26 power weapon attacks and 8 Thunderhammer attacks easily wiping out the middle unit, other two units add in some less impressive numbers. Lose 1 Grey Knight in combat. All necron warriors beaten by around 15 for combat res. Survivors run and get swept by PAGK. Ouch! 45 Necron Warriors WONT be back for the cost of a single 25pt model.)

But the guy with the Holy relic jumped out the LR which counts as moving. Otherwise how do you get your Justicar and squad so close without moving? I still don't think Pyscannon bolts is competitive.

I have never been a big fan of psycannon bolts.

G

I would rather use more Psycannons. Great weapon.

I am also finding no reason to not use the "Word of the Emperor" psychic power against most armies.

I have never used Word of the Emperor.

G

Thats because he doesn't talk to you.

storm knight wrote:But the guy with the Holy relic jumped out the LR which counts as moving. Otherwise how do you get your Justicar and squad so close without moving? I still don't think Pyscannon bolts is competitive.

The Relic Bearer never even HAS to get out of the LR.

DH Holy Relic has no "Line of sight" restrictions. In fact, it seems better if he DOESNT even get out of the LR. With the LR's footprint, the 4d6 range on the item is even better.

Green Blow Fly wrote:I have never been a big fan of psycannon bolts.

G

Now that statement is just silly, unless you're a harlequin, Daemon, Archon, Warlock, assassin, or anything else with anything less than power armour.

If you arent a fan of them, you havent used them.

Mattlov wrote:I would rather use more Psycannons. Great weapon.

I am also finding no reason to not use the "Word of the Emperor" psychic power against most armies.

Honestly, that psychic power isnt all that very useful.

MauleedlovesYakeface wrote:Thats because he doesn't talk to you.

And that is because I am not listening.

G

Actually, the emperor hit the "ignore" button on GBF!