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OK. If you look at a chainsaw, the blade has to be thin, to slice through things

If you look at the models & most of the artwork for chainswords, theyre really quite chunky, which leads me to believe they wouldnt cut. Is their chunkiness intentional, or does the blade have to be of a certain girth to be modeled properly.

Also, because chainsaw blades are a relatively fragile mechanism, rather than a solid piece of metal, would a thin chainsword blade just break when swung at a heavily armoured opponent. I kind of evision buttresses along the blade running from the hilt upwards. But would they strengthen it enough, & assuming they did, would it still be thin enough to slice?

thats just something thats often bugged me about chainswords.

Any thoughts?

It doesn't matter, it's a chainsaw, and a sword.
Enough said

does a chainsaw slice?
not really

it quickly rip out chuck of material

I think a chain sword will do the same

Hmm...ok, bearing in mind that this is only fantasy theory, the cutting "edge" of a chainsaw are the individual egdes of the teeth that run along the length of the "blade".

So really, it would be irrelevant how thick the body of the chainblade was, as long as the teeth were sharp enough......

In terms of cutting through armour, that would depend on four factors really, the material of the teeth and how well they retain their edge, the material used for the main body construction, and how well it held up to high frequencey vibration, the rpm of the chain mechanism...although if the cutting material is of a high enough quality then this is of less importance...and finally the muscle strength of the user to be able to hold the blade in contact with the target!

The swing of the blade is not really a factor, as its not a single cutting edge....

@ M_Stress: Yeah, if you swung a chainsaw at something wildly itd be rippy, but apply the proper pressure & stuff & itd slice. & Id assume marines are trianed to wield them to maximum effect.

@ Delephont: I dont mean the depth of the chainsword's body, I mean the thickness of the casing past the teeth. so for example, a chainsword slices into a armour plate, would the penetration not be stopped by the casing that sticks out past the teeth after the teeth had gone in a certain amount?

The chainswords of Forge World models are usually a lot thinner.

I think that the chainsword blades must have to move REALLY fast, way faster than a chainsaw. If you were moving it at speed towards something, only a few teeth would have a chance to make a cut, (if the blades moved too slowly) and the sword would just bounce off.

I don't think they'd be that useful against power armour, but if I was a catachan guardsman with just my vest on, they'd scare the out of me.

somecallmeJack wrote: I dont mean the depth of the chainsword's body, I mean the thickness of the casing past the teeth. so for example, a chainsword slices into a armour plate, would the penetration not be stopped by the casing that sticks out past the teeth after the teeth had gone in a certain amount?

I hadn't thought of that. maybe the extreme rippy-ness of the high speed blades tears a gash wider than the blades themselves. (probably only against certain materials.) Or maybe that's why they're only as good as a normal sword, or club, or rifle butt in game terms.

I don't think they'd be that useful against power armour, but if I was a catachan guardsman with just my vest on, they'd scare the out of me.

What if you're one of the unlucky 20% percent of every catachan unit who just wears a BELT across his chest

I was just reading up on real chainsaws, & apparently if you dont keep the blade properly lubrictaed, they wear down & down cut at all. That said, you can also get specially designed chainsaws for cutting stone & metal.

They have diamond tipped blades. Also, If you look at a chainsaw blade, the teeth are small & not very sharp, Im assuming the teeth on a chainsword would actually be sharp.

so I guess, it is possible.

Its large sharp blades going very very fast most likely made of a near indestructible alloy.

Its gonna break gak no matter how big it is.

The teeth do not look like any chainsaw I have ever used.
Regular chainsaw teeth are bent at a right angle, so they engage the wood squarely and so wood chips are removed from the path of the blade. A chainswords teeth look clawed, apparently to just rip, as moving the material out of the way would not matter so much with squishy bits.

As for armor, idk...

Mostly I'd like to assume that chainsword teeth are thicker because it makes modelling a chainsword that much easier.

I would also assume that chainswords are made of a much stronger material than any of our chainsaws, and that Space Marines take very good care of them when they're outside of battle.

Lastly, I'd assume that a chainsaw does a much better job of cutting through anything than a more conventional blade. I can only imagine what a chainsaw would do to kevlar, as opposed to say, a knife. On top of that, a great deal less effort is required. Plus, it isn't exactly going to be a clean cut, so good luck living through that.

Chainsaws /= Chainswords. The look similar and have similar names, but thats it. Chainsword teeth are large, very angular and at least at hard as diamond. The can slice things with about as much accuracy as a blender. Its not about slicing with finess, its about cutting through armour and causing as much damage as possible. A chainsaw can give you a nasty cut, but a chainsword will rip you in half. They are thick and heavy because they need to have weight and power to their swing and also so they dont breat when you ram one int a carnifex.

Chainsaws are tools used to cut big things with accuracy.

Chainswords are weapons of war.

[Pre-note: I doubt there was anymore thought in designing chainswords other than: chains=cool, swords=cool, chainswords=batradness!]
that said some of may rationalizing justification:

Chainswords seem more of a particularly vile war club, like the maquahuitl
and used more like that, than a saber
the chainblade is just there to help score the snapping surface, like scoring plasticard
if the surface produces too much resistance the 'edge' is forced in, like on a stage-knife
but on soft surfaces, like bone, flesh wood, it would melt through with the force of the impact
especially given that the teeth would be made with fancy a sci-fi alloy that would have a ridiculous sheer strength
(you know, at the sheer strength of plot...)

having seen some of the damage a chainsaw can inflict on an unarmored human, id have to say that the chainsword would be much worse, though.. i just had an idea:

what if the chainswords teeth had sort of "grooves" near the base of each tooth, to achieve what a real chainsaws tooth does: moves things out of the cutting path, this would be useful for hardened materials like armor. then you have the extended sharp "tooth" for rending bare flesh...this would be a nasty combo.

and i really doubt any marine has to worry about lubricating his chainsaw blade, as it IS their religion and all.

Chrysaor686 wrote:I can only imagine what a chainsaw would do to kevlar, as opposed to say, a knife.

A chainsaw would shread up the fibers and promptly be jammed and stall, doing almost nothing (maybe a big bruise)
where a knife could stab through unhindered.

thats why police vests have 3mm thick steel plates in them.

Now back to your regular program, already in progress.
This has been your random factoid...

There are chainsaws that are designed to cut through a wide range of materials (fibrous included)
just ask the Amazon....

That said,
I think that the level of tech that would be required to make a durable chainsword would be far below that which would be a to defend attacks from said weapon.

We have the tech now to make extremely sharp blades that are strong and durable (and, more importantly, mass producible)
but if you brought it to the field, you'd get shot...

40k is a story of mixed story-archs, a sandbox
a stylistic concept is given tech
the style is not formed by tech (in the case of the real world)
so weapons like lasguns can exist, and so can underworld astro-sailing ships

but that tech is given explanation and reason within the paradigm of the story

If looking for a plausible way to explain and justify the chainsword
you need to invent the explanation, and make it plausible in 40k

Let's see, plausable explanation..
considering the terms "adamantium" and "adamantium alloy" are thrown about willy nilly (boltgun rounds are made from the stuff!!!), I suppose that the teeth could easily be made from it.
Furthermore, they whine, not like a puppy trying to open the back door after a potty break, more like a toddler who just figured out how hot a stove really gets. They are loud, so they may cycle really fast, the fact that they require constant maintenance seems to support this.
That work?

Iremember reading about this in the HH series (one of the loken ones i think) that chainswords are fought with in an entirely different way to normal swords in that they dont slice you hold it there and cut.

You get armour saves from attacks from a chainsword. Who says the failed saves come from the opponent cutting throught the thick armoured plates? Just like medieval warriors I imagine the space marines wielding such weapons would aim for the difficult-to-protect joints suchs as: the inside of the elbow and knees, the armpit, the belt-line, and the face. You don't try to go throught tough armor, you go around it. That being said, I believe a long knife would still be better for fighting other humans in close quarters, if you're maintaining enough distance to wield a sword, then the opponent should be able to bring a pistol to bear with relative ease. If your going to get in close then get in close, grapple, and finish with the knife. Marines don't train for fights against JUST humans though. The chainsword may be better at ripping apart low-armored, hard to kill Orks and Tyranids, and Necrons with their lack of vital organs.

Just a rambling thought,

Thalor

Besides, think of the benifits when it comes time to storm a house or somethin'.
SM:"They've locked the door!"
Sarge: "Out of My way!"
(Sounds of chainsword shattering wood, followed by a half-dozen AK-47's hitting a Melon, as the Helmetless Sergeant discovers another way 40k is unrealistic.)

Remember way back with the first space marines? They didn't have chainswords - they had chainbayonets. I miss them.

the way i see it, the chainsword is used differently then a normal sword. the average sword is used either in a stabbing or chopping motion. with a chainsword neither of those would be a good idea(specially chopping i think the chainsaw part of it would cause major bounce back) Personally i think they would work famously is the user were to SLICE with the sword. think like a real samurai sword, its used in a slashing motion. that would actually cause maximum damage with very little impact on the mechanical parts of the chainsword.
thats my 2 cents tho.

Illeix wrote:

Chrysaor686 wrote:I can only imagine what a chainsaw would do to kevlar, as opposed to say, a knife.

A chainsaw would shread up the fibers and promptly be jammed and stall, doing almost nothing (maybe a big bruise)
where a knife could stab through unhindered.

thats why police vests have 3mm thick steel plates in them.

Now back to your regular program, already in progress.
This has been your random factoid...

wow 2 posts in a few secs. helps to read the whole post FIRST THEN reply lol
anyways thats very true. loggers that use chainsaws to thin out tree lines wear kevlar chaps for that very reason. the chainsaw makes a brilliant mess of the stuff for sure, but all it does to the wearer is scare the piss out of them. the fibers bind the saw up so bad it stops in like 1/3 of a second or so. check out youtube im sure you can see some neato videos on it lol

A chain sword can be used in a variety of blade styles.

like longswords were designed forstabbing, but Katans are designed for slashing.
So really it's just a matter of how it's being weilded. And the teeth of the chainsword are actually pretty thick, so they would individually be able to work against thick-er armor, and even the highest quality chainsaw needs to have it's chain replaced.

If you look at the opening of the original Dawn of War it gives you a pretty good idea of how they work. The sergent in that video seems to like to whack orks with it and just uses it for sawing once in a while, when a pistol is not a good idea (or gets knocked out of his hand )
So more whacking and less ripping seems to be the proper way to use a chainsword.

Wow, this thread makes me weep for the physics teachers of the world. No one listens to them. Chainswords by how they are designed on the models and in much of the artwork would be totally worthless. They would be utterly unusable as stabbing weapons. Given their thickness you would be about as able to stab someone with a bat. They would also be unable to cut beyond the thickness of the blade teeth since the housing of the sword/axe is wider then the cutting edge (something not seen on chainsaws). About the only use these weapons could have would be as a tearing implement against a soft target (against anything of any sort of hardness the blade would simply bounce off uncontrollably probably hurting the user in the process). The same effect could be gained by hitting someone with a serrated saw, though it wouldn't be quite as destructive against the two or so inches of flesh the teeth are capable of tearing into before skin meets housing.


Chainswords = stupid and useless as designed. The entire concept of a chain cutting implement is to exist outside of its housing and provide a continuous serrated and mobile cutting edge that can be held steady against the target as it chews through. It's essentially a device that takes the sawing motion out of a saw yet retains the functionality. Chainswords do not have the time to act in a sawing fashion and are basically jagged bludgeoning implements. Belphegor had it right in his last post chainswords = awesome yet not functional artistic design that needs to be justified in universe in some fashion because its not based on realistic combat tactics or weapons technology.

ShumaGorath wrote:. They would be utterly unusable as stabbing weapons. Given their thickness you would be about as able to stab someone with a bat. They would also be unable to cut beyond the thickness of the blade teeth since the housing of the sword/axe is wider then the cutting edge (something not seen on chainsaws). About the only use these weapons could have would be as a tearing implement against a soft target (against anything of any sort of hardness the blade would simply bounce off uncontrollably probably hurting the user in the process). .

Basically what I thought. I was wondering if the fact they were modeled with such chunky housing was intentional, or just a constraint of working with such small models.

Ignoring fluff for a moment and just looking at the models, remember their proportions are, in modelling terms, "Heroic". If the weapons were made "true to scale" and not "Heroic", a chainsword blade would be almost too thin to be worth casting and look ridiculous on such bulky models.

Chainswords = Awesome

Sword-chucks = Godly awesome

In real Life both are useless.

In 40k the most realistic HTH weapon that could exist is the power weapon. A Blade with some sort of high energy field around it providing the umph to cut through armor, bone, guts, etc...