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as Above - Who would win>

At what scale?

The lowest possibly - Eldar.

The it would be a toss-up between eldar and SM CBS

Then the nobz would start to dominate.

Like nething in 40k its all a matter of scale.

Well, you need to compare them on a point by point scale.
As Cmd squads are always rather small, I'd compare squads of 6 men. But I'm too lazy.

lol csm bike command squads. its quite laughable really compared to the other 2

enmitee wrote:lol csm bike command squads. its quite laughable really compared to the other 2

He meant Space Marine Command squad. With an Apothecary granting FNP such a unit is not too bad. But it has no invulnerable save as the other two units.

If you manage the wound allocation with some arbitrary 5 point upgrades the multi-wound bikers are even harder to kill, and the mass of pk attacks would own the marines, and eventually lead to victory against the eldar.

Additionally, the space marines are almost always going to be overmatched in points by the other units, and would lose because there is nothing to stop the eldar or orks from taking the full unit.

This is all assuming we're talking about an empty battlefield with no other units on it, because vindicators can be an excellent answer to nobs. All they get then is the cover save, because of the instant death.

Which they also don't get because Barrage weapons cover saves are taken from the center of the disk?

Annoyingly (or luckily depending on side) they get a cover save. Its a cover save confered to them via the bike.. not a piece of terrain which can be circumnavigated.

wuestenfux wrote:He meant Space Marine Command squad. With an Apothecary granting FNP such a unit is not too bad. But it has no invulnerable save as the other two units.

You can give the four veterans in the squad storm shields, though that still leaves the apothecary without an invulnerable save.

Eldar v Nobs: Fairly sure the nobs would destroy the eldar, they can target all their power klaw attacks at the farseer, stop the fortune and end them as a threat.

garinator wrote:Eldar v Nobs: Fairly sure the nobs would destroy the eldar, they can target all their power klaw attacks at the farseer, stop the fortune and end them as a threat.

Only the ones in base with the farseer (or not in base with any warlocks) can target him. Anyone in base with a warlock is stuck fighting the unit. If the Eldar player gets the charge, it's fairly straightforward to ensure that the farseer is only touching a single model, and that model doesn't have a powerklaw. If it looks like the Ork player is going to get the charge, the farseer needs to be WAY in the back of the unit, where he won't get contacted on the charge (and so can pick his spot to go in).

Ratbarf wrote:Which they also don't get because Barrage weapons cover saves are taken from the center of the disk?

Warbikes give cover from any direction so it doesnt matter if it comes from the center of the disk or not

PS Opps someone already said

wuestenfux wrote:

enmitee wrote:lol csm bike command squads. its quite laughable really compared to the other 2

He meant Space Marine Command squad. With an Apothecary granting FNP such a unit is not too bad. But it has no invulnerable save as the other two units.

if I remember correctly you can get a invulnerable save with the space marines command squad, just buy storm shields

Janthkin wrote:
Only the ones in base with the farseer (or not in base with any warlocks) can target him. Anyone in base with a warlock is stuck fighting the unit.

Although this is all 100% true, Nob Bikers with Big Choppas are S6 base and can instant death as well. It roughly doubles the number of models that can kill the Farseer outright.

The truth about targeting the farseer is all good and well,
but an eldar player too can use mind war to take out the warboss -so that their leadership is reduced to 7,
or the painboy -so that they dont get FnP
...those two can be very effective

sourclams wrote:

Janthkin wrote:
Only the ones in base with the farseer (or not in base with any warlocks) can target him. Anyone in base with a warlock is stuck fighting the unit.

Although this is all 100% true, Nob Bikers with Big Choppas are S6 base and can instant death as well. It roughly doubles the number of models that can kill the Farseer outright.

Yes, but Big Choppas don't negate armor. A rerollable 3+ armor save is reliable enough that I would chance it, if there were no other option.

adielubbe wrote:The truth about targeting the farseer is all good and well,
but an eldar player too can use mind war to take out the warboss -so that their leadership is reduced to 7,
or the painboy -so that they dont get FnP
...those two can be very effective

Yes that is a good tatic. But doesn't the modle have to be unengaged (so only get 1 shot at it assuming they are only 2 units in game). Also can't you use a cover save verse Mind War? Ergo wouldn't the bikes get a save against it anyway?

My vote is for the Nobz, (since there is never a "equal" way to point these three squads I based my answer off of average size w/reasonable amounts of equipment).

Here is a typical nob biker load out including the warboss:

Warboss/cybork body, 'eavy armor, power klaw, attack squig

5x nobs/cybork body, 'eavy armor, power klaw

Pain boy/cybork body, 'eavy armor

4x nobs/cybork body, 'eavy armor

The nobs have a Waagh banner, boss poles and extra wargear/options so that each member of the overall unit can be separately allocated wounds.

Here is a Space Marine Captain and command squad load out designed to take on nob bikers:

Captain/storm shield, thunder hammer, digital weapons, hellfire ammo

5x veterans/storm shield, power fist

Apothecary

You should also attach a Chaplain on a bike equipped with a thunder hammer.

If the Space Marines charge the nobs here are the stats:

Captain -> 4x attacks, all hit (rerolls) & all wound
Chaplain ->3x attacks, all hit (rerolls) & all wound
Veterans ->15x attacks, 11 hit (rerolls) & 10 wound

That is 17 S8 attacks that ignore armor. The nobs make 3 to 4 invulnerable saves... So they all die plus there are enough wounds left over to kill the warboss as well.

The nobs (including the warboss) have 19 attacks back with power klaws... 12 hit and 10 wound. The command said fails 3 saves and win the combat.

G

If the Captain and his command assault the nobs

Hey, G., how many points cost the squads?

Im now hating myself because Ive recently read up on the ork weird boy and it mentions how the mob-up rule affects his LD.. which would mean, im pretty sure, that thier LD will = the no. orks down to 8 orks.. Its still doable to out-roll on a D6..just a bit random.

550 points total.

G

For 585 points you can add five meltaguns.

G

I would have to say it all depends on who gets to move / shoot / charge

If the eldar can roll up and drop 8 destructor templates, 1 mindwar, and 2 TL shuiken cats, then charge with their 33, init 5 and 6 wraith sword attacks. I can't see any unit standing up to such a beating.

On the other side of the coin if the nobs charge the farseer and warlocks will crumple like a soggy paper cup.

Do the math hammer or you may be unpleasantly suprised.

G

595 if you kit the captain with a combi-melta.

G

GO ELDAR!!!
Woop woop

How many attacks can 3+ & 4+ re-rollable saves be able to withstand? The farseer may go down yes but after a eldar player turn charge (After starting the turn with powers cast) theyve got fortune until the start of thier next turn which will be enough.

Being charged means only one round of combats worth of fortune in which the farseer will die so alot less oppertune!

The Space Marines are actually the best.

G

...if one factors in shooting eldar trump

I am pretty sure, but not positive, that the Eldar player will get to assign wounds however he wants, since the Farseer takes Warlocks as a retinue. Can someone with a book clarify this as fact or fiction? If that is true, then who the Farseer is in base contact with has no bearing.

Also, a 3+ re-rollable is ridiculously hard to chew through. I put 19 wounds on a Seer Council and they lost only 1 model... A little less than statistical, but MathHammer didn't attend that particular game.