Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In a mega battle this Saterday at my local gaming store that's indeed what happened. The enemy CSM player brought in his squads of Termies via our SM players Teleport Homer. I was playing IG, and holding my own vs orks on the other side of the table (I got assigned "slow the flank down" duty, it was painful) So I didn't witness or hear of this until after, talking with fellow gamers about some of the cheese that ocurred.

From what I gather, the basic arguement the CSM player used was thus: It says I can bring them on from any Teleport Homer, so, I'm going to use yours. It happened to be smack on our only objective we held. It also ended up being the "winning" objective as there was 3 and we didnt know which was the "one" until endgame. I call shenanigans. I've never heard of this before. I've cirtainly never played against it before. So the question is thus:

Was this a viable move, or some fast handed BS that rules confused the new SM player?

This was addressed in the latest update to the 5th Ed. FAQ. Available here

Fifth Edition Rules FAQ (March Update) wrote:
Q. Am I able to gain the benefits of any of my
opponent’s wargear or special rules, such as
Teleport Homers, Chaos Icons, Tyranid Synapse,
Necron Resurrection Orbs etc?

A. In most occasions this is clear, as the rules use
the words ‘friendly’ or ‘own’ to indicate your
units, and ‘enemy’ for the opponent’s. On the
other hand, some rules clearly specify that they
affect ‘friend and foe’. A few rules are, however,
slightly ambiguous as they don’t clearly specify
this distinction. As a general principle, we
recommend that you cannot use or gain the
benefits from any of the wargear or special rules
of your opponent’s army, unless specifically
stated in the rule itself (‘friend or foe’) or in an
official FAQ.

It's still kinda vague..but hope it helps.

I don't think it's vague, it waffled a bit, but the answer of "you cannot use or gain the benefits from any of the wargear or special rules of your opponent's army, unless specifically stated in the rule itself ('friend or foe') or in an official FAQ." is quite clear in what it means.

Unless the rule specifically states enemies may use it, you are meant to assume broad statements like "any terminators entering play via deepstrike" to apply only to the units friendly to the bearer of the wargear.

Yes, that helps. As the SM TH does not say it allows for the Deepstriking of Friend or Foe from it, I would say it sews it up pretty tight. Thanks for the FAQ link. Was helpful.

Assumption was in short supply during the first two or three turns in the Mega Battle as both sides jockied for position. This was done by a married 35ish guy who also brought the agruement of "legs of a defiler isn't its hull, as they're legs, so I'm in cover" during a tourny. (Which was rapidly corrected by those around him as not to have the 19-something ork player fooled)
Sometimes they just HAVE to win... even if it means saying "well, the rules dont specificly say I cant. So I can, and will" Ugh

[TFG]FAQ's don't mean anything! They are nothing but House Rules the illiterate devs made up at GW headquarters. They aren't errata and have no bearing on rules as written. Rules as written, I may use your Teleport Homers to bring in my models in Terminator Armour, and you even suggesting I cannot makes you a cheating asshat![/TFG]
TFG Checklist: FAQS aren't official: Check. Insulting Games Workshop Devs: Check. Insulting the OP: Check

(Note to stop the Trolls/Dumbwits with no Sense of Humour/Mods [Aren't they all the same??? - Ed] : I am not condoning this, and I say you cannot use the enemies wargear. Just thought I'd get this out the way before the real TFG shows up )

To play along Gwar!, looking at a SM codex at the store, the best arguement I could come up with was that the Teleport Homer says that units using this come from an Orbiting Space Marine Strike Cruiser... Thus, even if the Chaos Fleet above us has captured Space Marine Strike Cruisers, once captured, they become CHAOS Space Marine Strike Cruisers, and therefor cant use this Teleport Homer as they have to come from a Orbiting Space Marine Strike Cruiser. (bleh tired of typing that all out) My brother and I laughed a bit at that prospect of Rules Lawyering but good god.
I know next time he tries that at a tourny and Im playing him. I'll just end up having a VERY long 2nd turn movement phase and, aww, gee.. look at that. My guardsmen arrive via deep strike all over the objectives and your deployment zone. But, man... only if I could figure out where to put them quicker because now our time limit is done. Oh well, lets count up kill points/obj/troops in deployment zone and call it a game. Oh, but you didnt have anything to shoot at for 2 turns? huh... funny that....
YAY 0 sportsmen ship all around!!

Fluff Justification for TFG's Argument: Check

Thanks Deewalla, I had forgotten that one!

It also helps if you can get a teacher in the English language to tell you what the three paragraphs of the rule actually say. No matter the teacher hasn't read anything else of the WH40K rule sets or had a look at how anything of it fits together. Or for that matter, if there's any descriptions on how to use the rule if it can actually be used like the TFG would like to read it.

I don't believe this story.

This is an Apocalypse game, not a Tournament. Everyone knows that only Good, Ethical Players who care about the story and the game and their opponents play Apocalypse, while TFGs who would try to use their opponent's teleport homers play in tournaments. Just ask Jervis Johnson.

Kinda on topic: I like the idea of having a chance (1or2 in 6?) of being able to 'hack' your opponent's teleport homer.
Sounds kinda fun especially in Apoc.

Well, codexes aside, one would have to assume that the teleport homer would be sending out a coded or encrypted (same thing?) signal that is untraceable to their enemies.

I do like this 'hacking though. Perhaps you could be able to use an enemy TH, but you always get a deepstrike mishap if you do.

You can also be a bum and get some land-speeder storms with scouts as your troop transports & use them to baby sit your teleport homers.

Wait.. by the wording,

That would mean your own beacons would stop working AND for your enemies ("..in addition..") would have to scatter the extra distance.

Batman.. I sense A trap!

Just say that your model planted his teleport homer in a lava pit so his termies just landed in lava and died.

Homer

Homer S wrote:Just say that your model planted his teleport homer in a lava pit so his termies just landed in lava and died.

Homer

QTF. Likewise, you could say the guy threw his model off of the egde of the board. Go go mishap table!

Haha, thats brilliant. Dive into the depths of Arsehat Gaming and wonder. Just because I paid the points for it, doesn't mean I brought it all the way to the battlefield with me. It's MY teleport homer, so maaaaaaybe I left it in a low orbit durning my deployment. Or even point to you're own model and declare "This is WYSIWYG, do YOU see a teleport homer? Dang, wasted all those points on it!"
@Centurian99: We were not even using Apocalypse rules. Just good, old fasioned 3 players v4 players with 6,000 points divided evenly.

I don't agree with it, however it would be a Cool House Rule to mix things up.

An Elite Teleport Upgrade, "Transport Hackers"
4-6 Your Good to go
1-3 They detected the False signal, 1 Transport the Unit off the Table/2-3 Half the Unit Materialize while trying to scramble signal also Deepstrike Scatter/ 4-6 Have to reposition it anywhere on the table, not enough time to scamble signal

I like it

It would actually make a really nice strategic asset. Especially with all the Space Marines with Drop Pods and what not I would expect to see. Hell it could even be just like Razinator said but also let you choose one piece of terrain or one spot on the board that would be your own Teleport homer that you choose and is stationary.

Bah double post. Sorry, at work my B.

The wording of the FAQ is laughable. It's as if GW is shocked (shocked!) that everyone doesn't understand their rules. To GW I say, "no sh@# you didn't think that a failure to specify who could use gear might lead to some problems?"

Centurian99 wrote:I don't believe this story.

This is an Apocalypse game, not a Tournament. Everyone knows that only Good, Ethical Players who care about the story and the game and their opponents play Apocalypse, while TFGs who would try to use their opponent's teleport homers play in tournaments. Just ask Jervis Johnson.

Quoted for hilarity.

in a similar situation, my opponents almost always use my kustom force field when i'm getting near assault range. as it does not say friendly or foe.

i'm hard pressed to say no to that, even with the FAQ.

Wow seriously tho I have to say that is a serious cheat there. I wouldnt let the guy do that PERIOD. That would come to an argument and Id call the game reps to calm it down. If chaos cant use something as simple as Imperial storm bolters, then they sure as hell cant use a high tech teleporting device

TFG's: Not just for tournaments!

I think it would be a cool Strategic Asset in APOC, especially for Alpha Legion.

The moment an opponent tries this amount of asshattery on me is the moment I pick up my models and leave. On page 2 of the rule book there is a rule that says to play instances such as this honorably and not like a beardy git. Have some respect for the game.

spinach_chin wrote:in a similar situation, my opponents almost always use my kustom force field when i'm getting near assault range. as it does not say friendly or foe.

i'm hard pressed to say no to that, even with the FAQ.

The faq makes very clear that this should NOT be allowed. Why not? Cuz the mek has a dial switch thing that he can turn to put the field wall between the gunz and the boyz. Period.

It always amazes me the extent people will bend rules, or use the old chestnut 'it doesn't say I cant' to try and win a game rather than enjoy a game...
Mick

hhhmmmm thats a good idea i'll have to try that just kidding, Deewalla if i was you time for a rematch

I think it is pretty obvious that this guy cheated, that's pretty unsporting to be honest- now no one will want to play with him. I mean picture this.

" Well we're both Necron players, however it seems you are the only one who bothered to bring a lord holding a resurrection orb. I know it cost you extra points but I think I'll use it for myself!"

"Whaaatttt????"

Is this like the Venerable Dreadnaught "well, it only says you can ask me, so i'm going to say no" puzzle?